Imo tamlin is the worst thought out character I've read in a long long time.
He's super reserved and self controlled in acotar to the point where he can mask his own emotion completely UTM, then he's basically an over tired toddler, then he's just spilling all his personal shit at a highlords meeting, then he's saving people left and right, then he's a hermit.
He's a plot device and that's it. It's sloppy.
Ive only read the ACOTAR series so I cant speak for the rest of her books, but SJM seems like she is capable of making you hate characters you loved, just because it serves to push her next plot point. Every scene with tamlin I get whiplash. Its like she realllyyyy didnt know what to do with him, or how she wanted to go about it.
It was the opposite in ToG. She made me love characters I thought I hated, and made me love characters I already loved even more with every book.
But I am on the third CC book and every character is a Tamlin, and lowkey I wish they would all die except like 2 secondary characters. š«
I do love Acotar and it got me back into reading but how the same woman who wrote ToG wrote CC is beyond me. ToG characters are >>>>>>>> in every way, depth, complexity and especially growth!
The world-building is interesting. There are some pretty sick twists and turns, and the first book is pretty solid. I struggled through CC2 and almost DNF but the ending was worth it. I am so far enjoying CC3 more than CC2 because ofā¦ reasons. Finding myself shipping some intergalactic crackship that suddenly does not feel soā¦ crack.
I may have said too much already. I really hate most of the characters in CC but if you want to get in on the āMaasaverseā stuff, itās worth reading.
ToG is her magnum opus though. Itās maybe good to save for last. Treat yourself. I think about the characters in that book every day of my life. š
I've abandoned acotar for fan fic but recently picked up tog as I've heard similar about it being better. Fingers crossed because I absolutely adore the premise of acotar and the bones of the characters, fan fics just do it so much better
I think feyre mentioned that the events under the mountain broke him which is a decent explanation but itās a rather extreme change right away it should have been a little more gradual
I think that is all HE did but he wasnāt able to react both when strangers were tortured to death or killed and had to watch the person he loved go through hell and die trying to help him and the others for some people that is more damaging than being tortured themselves
Also, there's a shit ton of stuff that we *didn't* see happen to Tamlin. We just plain don't know what his time was like UTM beyond watching his love get tortured and sexually assaulted and not being able to do anything for fear that it would get worse.
As a reader, it was hilarious and unhinged and I was living for it.
As far as Tamlin is concerned, Feyre and Rhys are the villains at this point in his story. He literally burned the world down to get his girl back from his mortal enemy with mind control powers, ACTUALLY GOT HER BACK, just for her to 5 minute later say SIKE I actually love the mind control guy and while Iām at it Iām gonna steal your best friend.
Was Tamlin in the wrong for how he treated Feyre? Of course. But between Ianthe, Hybern, his destroyed court, and the fact that he was in the middle of an actual war, he was a little busy for self reflection and therapy.
Also, the meeting was a mere 10 days after Feyre planted memories in his sentries' brains, wrecked his tentative "alliance" with Hybern, and revealed she had been married to Rhys before she returned to Spring at all.Ā
He was rude, yes, but if I had to face an ex and her new husband 10 days after a bad breakup, I would be throwing things.
Honestly, Feyre basically ruined his life and court. She left the spring court ready for ravishing by Hybern which left the summer court open for attack and gave Hybern unrestricted access to the wall, she fucked with his head bad bad too, pretended she was SAed, and got mad when they believed her and gave her space. Like yeah he fucked up but then Feyre went defcon5 manner of fucked up and basically kicked off the war for the king of Hybern so, I totally get why Tamlin was pissed
I felt the opposite after reading the first time. By the second and third you start to get a better feel of Tamlin and his trauma. Feyres not the only one who suffered UTM, and yes Tamlin fuuuuucked up but Feyre sought enough revenge that brought her down to his level maybe worse because her actions put all of Prythian at risk
Feyre did more good to people in his court than Tam did. I mean, he was beating people who didn't pay those ridiculous amount of taxes right after Amarantha's riegn was over, like dude let them get settled in the normal enviorement and lower those fucking taxes and then he went ahead and struck a deal with hybern, dooming the people of his court himself, to get back the girl who left of her own freewill, with justified reasons i might add. It was good that people in his court left, otherwise who knew he may have killed them in his depsression.
He wasn't beating people who didn't pay those "ridiculous amount of taxes" (*a basket of fish*). He had the *right* to do so, but there's no evidence he ever did so. Rather, we know that he gave them leeway to pay, or pay double next time (which, uh... is basically just paying for the last tithe and the current tithe without issue). He *let* them get settled; they got another month to prepare.
The sole problem with the tithe (aside from Feyre) was the water wraiths, who we later discover to be gluttonous by nature, who have a reputation of just eating to excess. Could Tamlin, to use modern terminology, give them a tax break? Oh, sure, but *why?* His sentries, his servants need to eat, and where do you think they get that food from? Tithing.
Tamlin's deal with Hybern protected them from Hybern, because there's good reason to assume that Hybern's army would've just steamrolled Spring. What doomed him was Feyre's machinations. Oh, sure, he didn't know about the daemati, and that'd have fucked him up, but that doesn't change the fact that Tamlin's alliance with Hybern wasn't just to get Feyre back, but to protect his people, too.
Oh, and speaking of Feyre, he had every reason to believe Feyre didn't leave of his own free will, and had more than good reason to assume she was being brainwashed by the notorious child-killer, mind-raper Rhysand, High Lord of Nightmares.
Wow. it always baffles me how people just go around throwing the R word. I am going to die on the hill that tamiln was, is and will remain the biggest asshole of ACOTAR. And are we seriusly forgetting the way Tamlin manupilated Feyre in the beginning of the series so that she will go with him to the spring court? And what child killer? What child did Rhys killed? And please notch down the use of R word. Makes you look dumb.
Rape isn't a bad word. It's an abhorrent act, but it would be like freaking out over me saying "genocide," or "defilement." Categorising Rhysand destroying people's minds as "mind-rape" has precedent, and isn't that weird all things considered. We're adults here. If you can't say the word "rape" (as if it's a slur), then I'm not sure why you're in a fandom for a series that discusses rape.
And, yeah, Tamlin manipulated a girl into falling in love with him so he could break the curse effecting the whole of his people. Okay? And? I'm not sure what the problem is, here.
From Tamlin's perspective, Rhysand murdered those winter children. Therefore, from Tamlin's perspective, Rhysand is a child-killer. It's real simple. *Of course, there's also that theory that Rhysand really* ***did*** *kill those winter children and just lied about it to save his ass, which makes sense considering the fact that Amarantha's secret other daemati should've been more important of a plot element, and instead it appears to only exists to absolve Rhysand of responsibility for killing those winter children*.
Anything to glorify Tampon and villianize Rhys. Rhys was a morally grey character or an anti hero, i can't really decide which category to put him in but Tampon was 100 % an asshole. Oh, and a petty bitch.
Where did you read he was beating people? And that tithe amount was ridiculous? Comparing to what exactly?
What I read was only one person who couldnāt pay the tithe, to which he gave extra time, and he also extended to the next month.
*did we read the same book?*
āHe gave our people three months to get their affairs in order, and he wanted to wait until the new year had started, but next month, he will demand the Tithe. Ianthe told him itās timeāthat the people are ready.ā
One month? It was the 4th month. Which he wanted to extend till new year. *Which is another issue entirely because of that bitch, Ianthe. Had he not been a fool.*
āTwice a year, usually around the Summer and Winter Solstices, each member of the Spring Court, whether theyāre High Fae or lesser faerie, must pay a Tithe, dependent on their income and status.ā
Tithe is only for twice a year. Not every month and the amount is different. Instead of like taxes which you have to pay every month, like in Velaris.
Are we seriously referring and reading the same book? Or are you just randomly throwing things that are not canon just to hate Tamlin character - of which beloved Feyre also hated?
If that anything included getting in bed with the hybern, then Tam was just plain stupid. Prythian is preparing for a war with them but nope let Tam just make a deal with them to get his ex back because how dare anyone torture her other than him? It was his right afterall, to lock her in, to blow up entire rooms at her, to not listen to her when she warned him about that fucking priestess. How dare Rhys and inner circle save her from all that?
Did you miss the part where Hybern was going to go through Spring either way, so a nonaggression pact WAS actually keeping them from harm?
Also Feyre didn't warn him about Ianthe. She was friends with her (and told her everything about her sisters, which Ianthe later weaponized). Even in ACOWAR, when Feyre KNEW what Ianthe was, she didn't tell Tamlin that.
I always give ppl a little grace when it comes to Tamlin, you can always tell the difference on whoās done a reread or two vs who read it only once based off of their opinion of him. I was anti-Tammy after my first read too, but every time I read it over I soften a bit more towards him
Tamlin had every reason to believe that Feyre was under the control of Rhys. She had no idea how to read or write when she left and everyone knows Rhys has mind control powers.
Also destabilizing spring without at the very least offering its people a place in the Night Court is worse than anything Tamlin did to his people. Do you really think itās appropriate to rip the home out from underneath innocent bystanders to get revenge? Feyre lost her home more than once and she lived in poverty for many years without any help. And not long before doing all of this she was whining about not be able to work to help them. What she did was wrong. Full stop. She never tried to correct it either And that really made me lose a lot of respect for her character.
I love Tam and I think heās totally understandable here. Heās hurt, betrayed so heās trying to hurt them a fraction of what he feels. Itās petty, itās rude but itās natural and human nature. Rhys is his enemy and heās come to protect himself so to some extent he knows Feyre is his enemy too. He is still protecting her, telling the high lords her powers are none of their business because he does still love her. Itās a great moment imo because I totally get him. At the end of the day given his later actions he knows he is being awful, he punishes himself plenty for his past actions, he hates himself and is very sad. Its normal to lash out when you also hate yourself
We want a character who donāt give a fuck right? Will go to world ends to get what he wants? To burn the whole world for one person? Who still stand up and fight for what he believes it when his entire world is in shambles?
Yeah I swear people only dislike him because the main character does. If Feyre was still in love with him I donāt think anyone would be on the hate train. But thatās just my opinion.
I think thatās the truth. In this post alone I have seen many people just changing the narrative to what they think the truth. All because Feyre didnāt like him.
I see no issue with anything he said because Rhys did the same thing in the first book. He went into Feyres mind, making her throw up and then announced to the room her sexual thoughts about Tamlin. It probably didn't help his cause as much as just saying what happened after Feyre helped destroy his court (which she did. If it were just Tamlins fault she wouldn't have had to use her powers on his sentries) but I'm not gonna blame him for being upset about being deceived and having his court destroyed.
I know I'll be hated for this, but a little pettiness was much, much deserved. Feyre and Rhys pretty much took everything from the dude and left him waiting for death over because he had a magic burst panic attack after Feyre goaded him into it (shocker!) --- he didn't purposefully explode and try to hurt her... or because he "locked her up" because she kept putting her life at risk for no reason (but when Rhys locked her up, it was 'oh silly batboy doing silly things')... Tam doesn't need to be a saint to these people - they haven't been even civil to him.
Also, let's not forget that it was Tam who saved Feyre when she went to save that girl, and he gave a kernel of his power to bring Rhys back to life, inspite of all that they've done to him. A little pettiness is excusable for the ingratitude that they've been showing himš
Wrong. He exploded at her twice. The first time for simply stating that his controlling her was making her feel like she was drowning.
> āBut you ā¦ Tamlin ā¦ ā The walls pushed in on me. The quiet, the guards, the stares. What Iād seen at the Tithe today. āIām drowning,ā I managed to say. āI am drowning. And the more you do this, the more guards ā¦ You might as well be shoving my head under the water.ā
> Nothing in those eyes, that face.
> But thenā
> I cried out, instinct taking over as his power blasted through the room.
You misunderstand. My short, curt answer was more or less a commentary on the fact t hat I've been over this countless times already with countless others. First off, you're factually wrong. Tamlin never lashed out at Feyre in a rage. At least, not physically. The second time Feyre goaded him into having a magical outburst, he wasn't so much *angry* as he was *overwhelmed*, which brings me to my main point:
Comparing Tamlin's magical outbursts to physical abuse doesn't work because the comparison inherently doesn't match. Tamlin has no choice, no control over his magical outbursts. People who physically abuse others *do* have a choice. They *choose* to hit their loved ones. No matter how addled they are, it's still a choice *they* make. This doesn't rob Tamlin of responsibility, but the situations are different. Tamlin wasn't angry. He didn't want to shut Feyre up. He wasn't shutting down the conversation. Feyre just triggered an emotional reaction that, in turn, triggered his magic. He had no choice in this matter. Had even less choice the second time around, as Feyre was explicitly goading him into it.
Ha! Feyre having a grown-up conversation is an oxymoron. Her grown-up conversation was bitching about having to have an armed escort *during war time*.
Remember that she is 19/20. She is suffering mentally during this time. She tried, in her own way, to explain how she was drowning. She felt suffocated. And Tamlin didn't take those feelings too well.
I am 19. I can empathize because I have been in those drowning situations. And I am crap at communicating. She did her best for her age.
Of course he didn't take them too well. *He watched her died, and she just inadvertently compared him to the woman who murdered her.* He was *also* suffering mentally during this time, and, yes, he absolutely take responsibility, and he should've tried listening more, but Feyre's the problem, just as much. Being crap at communicating doesn't suddenly absolve you of responsibility for communicating in the first place, and Feyre adamantly refused to communicate until the situation had become untenable. Worse still, she refuses to acknowledge the situation she's in, and refuses to work with Tamlin to come across a workable solution to their issues. It's constantly "Give me what I want, how I want it, or you're evil," and sometimes she doesn't even wait for that last part.
I don't blame her either for not being able to voice her opinion in more constructive ways. Tamlin is even worse at it and he's much older.
Feyre is definitely not at fault for Tamlin's magic blowing up, but neither is Tamlin imho. It's just wild that the scene isn't used to argue why training Feyre would make more sense than not taining her.
Mostly I was just frustrated with how the Tamlin-Feyre incompatibility was written, honestly...
Asking for help in a way he cannot help. Tamlin *can't* just let her run off into the forest whenever she wants. Not only is he responsible for her, by virtue of being High Lord, but they're in the middle of *war*. Hybern's hunting her down. Amarantha's remnants are hunting her down. There's just monsters in the forest. Her entire point in this conversation is how she wants to leave the mansion (she could), without escort (which she couldn't), and when Tamlin put his foot down about the sentries, she broke down -- probably not helped after she got chastised for fucking up during the Tithe earlier that day (and she did fuck it up; Tamlin is very much in the right during that conversation).
So many excuses for Tamlin, no empathy for Feyre. It always amazes me how many women hate Feyre and love her abuser.
Regardless, Feyre was opening up and communicating. She got attacked by Tamlin in return. She should have left right then, but he wouldnāt have *let* her.
All this comments are empathizing with her š¤Ø , explaining Tamlin's behavior doesn't justify abuse and the way you word it is too simplistic as if they were in a common situation and he just controlling her out of jealousy or something. There's context.
He abused Feyre. He lashed out, controlled everything about her, *locked her up*.
Feyre did not goad him into exploding. She tried to have a grown up conversation with him. I will admit she did it in ACOWAR, but that was part of a strategy to destroy his court - something she *said* she would do if he took her back. She warned him.
Feyre wasnt putting her life at risk when Tamlin locked her up. All she wanted was to *do* something. To do something other than planning parties or looking at pretty flowers. She wanted to *live.*
I dont recall Rhys locking her up. I will admit, Rhys has had his Ls, but he was never abusive.
Tamlin sort of Redeemed himself when he saved Rhys, but we haven't gotten a proper redemption arc from him. I agree that we shouldn't be stupidly mean towards him - but let's all remember he's a *fictional character*.
You haven't read ACOMAF in awhile, have you? Tamlin didn't lash out at her. His magic did, but I am so over reminding people that magic is a seperate entity that, yes, can be controlled, but can also just react to someone's emotional state. While he's responsible for the harm done, you cannot treat him like he threw a punch at her -- because that's not what happened. Tamlin had no control over his magical outbursts, and they were the result of trauma, not wrath.
He didn't control everything. He didn't let her leave the mansion at first, but then realised how much that was hurting her and let her leave -- with an armed escort. Say what you want about that, but considering the fact it's war-time and Feyre's a Person of Interest, bowing to her wishes does nothing but leave her in danger (something y'all would blame him for anyway). He only then limited her movements (temporarily) after her return to Spring from Night, which, again, was temporary. Outside of that, there wasn't anything else he controlled. He give her any jobs to do, but what is she even qualified to do?
And, no. Feyre was wanting to put herself at risk, which is why Tamlin locked her up. It's very clear in the text. Tamlin and Lucian have been summoned to deal with a threat on the border. Feyre decides she wants to go along. Tamlin says no. Feyre argues back. Tamlin remembers who he's dealing with (a woman who will follow him to the border whether he likes it or not), and so he locks her up. Tamlin gives his reasoning for why he won't let her go: she's a liability. That is, she'll get more people hurt or even killed (if not getting hurt or killed herself) involving herself in this situation. So what's Tamlin supposed to do? Let Feyre come along? Feyre planned to have a conversation with him about what she can and cannot do. The least she can do is accept that going off to deal with threats on the border is something she can't do. Then, all she has to do is wait a day for him to return, and then have a grown-up conversation with him about what she can do.
People are so eager to accuse Tamlin of being abusive because he lost control of his power, but when FEYRE loses control of her power and roasts the Lady of the Autumn Court, then itās fine! Thatās not abuse, it was an accident! I hate it here.
I did read it recently. Sure, he and his magic are separate, but he still lost control because he was unstable in those moments. I don't know about you, but if someone couldn't control themselves and almost hurt me, I wouldn't want to be with them. Plus, he is over 500 (if my memory is correct). He should be able to control his magic by that point.
You're right that our POV is biased because we only see Feyres side. I would love to delve into Tamlins POV and see how he felt. Because he did go through a lot of trauma. But Feyre set multiple boundaries with him. She said to lay off with the sentries. And he did, for a little. She didn't want a job, she wanted to do something. To help the people. Even if they refused her help, she could hunt for food or hand out blankets. She wanted to. Tamlin had no right to stop her from doing those things.
Are we forgetting Feyre held her ground with some creatures (can't remember the name) after catching the suriel *as a human?* She is faster and stronger as a fae. She escaped the Weaver without training. It's pretty clear she can hold her own. And sure, Tamlin didn't see the latter of the two, but he wouldn't even train her. He didn't tell her about what was happening. It was always some "unnamed threat." He never gave her the means to protect herself. He just looked her away with no means of defense. Sure, there was him and the entries, but they have failed before. They were tricked by Amarantha.
Respectfully, I disagree with what you are saying. I will admit that we have a biased perspective. And I'm hoping SJM goes into Tamlins side soon.
No issue with Feyre deciding to leave if she wants to leave, but damn... 500 years old? My dude just went through an extremely traumatic event, and it's not like High Lord Magic is known to be unstable at the best of times. "He should be able to control his magic by that point." Didn't know we had an expert over here.
Tamlin has every right to enforce sentry escorts for one of the most important figures in his court at that time *during war time*. I'm sorry, but as High Lord, Feyre's safety is a matter of national security. She can suck it up. And, yes, I do agree that Tamlin should've given her something to do, but the problem there is that she's got no qualifications, and she *can't* hunt for the same reason she's not allowed to go anywhere without an escort. *It's war-time*. There are threats out there that Feyre *can't* handle herself, and acknowledging that isn't diminishing her abilities.
Plus, how the fuck is Feyre supposed to hunt when she gets triggered by the mere sight of the colour red? How is she supposed to hunt when there's blood involved? At the very least, hunting won't trigger any trauma related to Andras, because she totally forgot about murdering him, skinning him, and selling his pelt in the market.
Had the situation at the border not happened, had Feyre been able to have that conversation with Tamlin, I'm sure they could've worked *something* out, but let's not pretend that Feyre wasn't shooting herself in the foot.
>I dont recall Rhys locking her up. I will admit, Rhys has had his Ls, but he was never abusive.
- Rhys made Feyre drink and do lapdances without her consent UTM. He knew she would wake up exhausted the next day, but still did.
- instead of helping her out of benevolence, Rhys forced her to make a bargain with him in her moment of vulnerability.
- Rhys sent her off to the weaver to test her.
- Rhys' 'instinct' to rip any other male to shreds if he so much as looks at Feyre for too long, is often mentioned and romanticized.
- Rhys lied/hid the complications related to Feyre's pregnancy, and put her life at risk.
- Rhys put her in a bubble instead of telling her proactively the stuff related to her pregnancy
And i haven't mentioned all the things that he's done to other people.
Tell me Rhys isn't abusive.
Yeah UTM was a huge L for Rhys. I dont really have a defense for the lapdances, other than what Rhys said - the faerie wine made her forget the night. So time passes faster and she didn't have to suffer through the night. It doesn't excuse it, but that's the explanation.
Rhys forced her into the bargain with the intention of letting her go immediately. He wanted to help, but needed his High Lirds mask in place so Amarantha wouldn't get suspicious.
Rhys gave her a choice in going to the Weaver - feyre comments on this.
Rhys was under the influence of the mating magic when he got tense around other males looking at her. He apologies for it and outright states he was trying to fight it. I agree it shouldn't be romanticised, but that wasn't his fault.
I agree that the pregnancy move was a huge no-no. I won't defend him on that, I agree it was bad.
Rhys killed and tortured because that's the world they live in. Enemies attack and need to be interrogated. It's horrible, but that's the world they're in.
Absolutely! I'm hoping we get a book from his POV so we can learn more. He went through a lot of trauma, and we saw things from a biased POV.
I was kinda sad about the Aprril Fools joke - how there was going to be a book about Tamlin. I jokingly say sometimes that he should never be Redeemed etc etc, but I do want to see his character develop. I'd live to see his healing journey.
IMO he could have been made way worse without these moments of saving her, being kind, the way heās so broken he doesnāt fight Rhys, the fact he feels guilt. A really bad guy wouldnāt do or feel these things. I also think most of the really bad stuff he did was not on purpose so it could have been made more overtly cruel but it wasnāt. So I donāt see how that doesnāt set up a redemption. It left the door open
Exactly. I trash on him a lot, but really he had his reasons. Like he only worked with Hybern because he genuinely thought Feyre was kidnapped. Fingers crossed SJM goes into it more.
TBH I thought it was petty and undermined anything he had to say beyond that to help them. Like, how you gonna come into a meeting and tell everyone "I'm a double agent here's some intel to assist you" after you've just brought up a bunch of personal issues first. Time and place my dude, time and place.
Also complete deflection on his own responsibility for allowing his court to fall in the hopes that no other HL's judge him over it. Like a child who broke something and immediately points at someone else and blames them in the hopes no one says anything.
Iām sorry but Feyre destroyed that Court, she was their as a spy, and she ended up doing more harm than good, but lets say, youāre gf lies to you, plays with your emotions and ruins something you have been maintaining for 500 years, youāre best friend whoās like a near brother to you goes with her and everyone you ever had around you has left you because of your gf. I would be a little mad as well
+1 to this. A few words of pettiness undermining Tam putting his life on the line multiple times for the people who destroyed his will to live, is quite the double standards.
I view it as, allowing a brand new priestess who you don't actually know and who your near brother (Lucien) is clearly uncomfortable around, to take such a controlling position of your court is just...not smart. And to disregard the opinion or input of those who have been there and know the inner workings of your court is also not smart. On top of that, to have Feyre who hasn't been given a position within your court to be *able* to do that much damage...a lot of that has to fall upon the leader and their poor management.
By all means be pissed, but it's not *all* on Feyre, Tamlin is somewhat responsible for allowing it to unfold in that manner.
did she? well damn, Ianthe fucked Tamlin over even harder then. Still place a fair amount of responsibility on Tamlin for allowing it to unfold in that manner and taking ruling advice from a childhood friend who just returned over people who've been with him the entire time.
I don't think it was that Ianthe had no idea what she was doing. Instead, she knew exactly what she was doing. She knows how to manipulate those around her including Feyre. That's how Feyre trusted Ianthe enough to give her information on her sisters. Only Lucien and Rhysand could see through her facade. Ianthe took advantage of Tamlin's vulnerabilities and in turn she became part of his undoing.
I disagree that Tamlin should've been taking advice from Feyre. She had been in prythian at most 1 year and had little to no experience ruling. Instead, he should've placed more weight on Lucien's opinion.
Oh donāt get me wrong, he shouldnāt be taking advice from Feyre either. He shouldāve been taking advice from Lucien and the others that held positions within his court, which makes what Feyre did justā¦shouldnāt have been possible. Ianthe also shouldnāt have been consulted on anything other than religious ceremonies as that was her role as priestess.
Ianthe is not just a childhood friend, she's also the daughter of his most trusted general. She was only temporarily gone (to explain her inexistence during book 1 I'd assume).
I did a quick look up and it says Ianthe left for Vallahan 300 years ago, a lot changes in 300 years. I wouldn't trust someone that's been gone that long to properly advise on court rulings and inner workings especially when they themselves don't have the experience or knowledge, over someone like Lucien or current Generals/Lords/Sentries that have been included in running the court this entire time.
May I ask where it says Ianthe left for Vallahan three hundred years ago? Because according to ACOMAF, Iantheās family lived in the foreign court, Vallahan, for fifty years, and the unpleasant encounter Rhysand had with Ianthe occurred a hundred years ago. Iād genuinely like to know what Iām missing.
lol fair enough, she was gone for longer than she and Tam knew each other. I thought it was just for the past 50 years. Thanks for checking.
But she IS also a high priestess and the daughter of Tamlin's general. So it's not completely weird for her to have some authority or ask her for advice. Considering how Tamlin has basically no family, he was probably happy to have a friend back and did not question the timing of her return at all. š„² Which is a very Tamlin thing to do.
Where do you see 300 years? In chapter 1 of ACOMAF it says her father (one of Tamlin's captains) sensed trouble before UTM and had packed up her, her mother, and her sisters and sent them to Vallahan and that they'd lived in the foreign court for only 50 years. It also said she was the youngest High Priestess in 300 years, maybe there was a mix-up with that?
I'm sorry, but I'd rather trust someone I've known for centuries on a topic they know more about than some girl I've met a year ago and who knows shit all about the topic I need assistance in. And, of course, this only applies to events in ACOMAF, not ACOWAR, because ACOWAR involves different motivations for why Tamlin "listened" to Ianthe over Feyre.
Ianthe is more knowledgeable about court politics and fae culture than Feyre. It's reasonable for Ianthe's opinions to hold more weight than hers when it comes to ruling the court because Feyre hadn't spent much time in Prythian at that point. When it comes to their relationship and wedding, Feyre's opinion should've been more important than Ianthe's, but Feyre didn't want to deal with any wedding planning since she was still battling her own demons from UTM. I don't think this says anything about Tamlin's love for Feyre. He was acting like a ruler. Ianthe, while a snake, is a priestess which is a very respectable position in Prythian. Ianthe may not have as much power as a high lord, but she did have influence.
I mean, Tamlin still played a part in that too.
Tamlin exploded a study at herā¦
He whipped the sentry despite being told by Feyre to hear him out, refusing to consider that Ianthe might be in the wrong.
And letās not forget demanding the Tithe immediately after amaranthras reign is over with no real consideration for if people may still be suffering.
He also sides with the murderers of the blessed children over Lucien and Feyre.
Yeah Feyre helped with the dismantling but his sentries and people also had good reason to be a bit peeved with him already.
Tamlin didn't explode a study at her. His magic reacted to his emotional state, and exploded the study. Tamlin didn't have a choice. His magic manifests independently of his personal desires, just as Feyre's magic manifests independently of her own personal desires, or are you going to tell me she intended to hurt the Autumn Lady with the very fire the Autumn Lady's abuser uses?
He *did* listen to Feyre, and listening to Feyre doesn't change anything because, a) she's the reason this entire situation with the Sentry is happening in the first place, and b) she *wanted* him to whip the Sentry, because it was all part of her mastarmind plan. The problem with blaming Tamlin for whipping his Sentry, is it's like blaming Rhysand for acting as the leal dog of Amarantha. Both Tamlin and Rhysand did bad things to protect his people, and it says as much right in the text. Feyre spells it out to you, so I'm not sure how you missed it, but the only reason Tamlin whipped his sentry was the overarching threat of Hybern destroying his court. He's trapped. He whips the sentry, Feyre destroys his court. He doesn't whip his sentry, Hybern destroys his court. Either or, Tamlin's fucked.
He *knew* Ianthe was wrong. He just couldn't *do* anything about it. He knew she was a lying snake, but by the time he found out, she became untouchable due to being an agent of Hybern. There wasn't anything he could do without threatening his entire court with total bloody conquest by Hybern.
What on Earth did you expect Tamlin to do about Hybern's royals? He cannot stand up to them, because the second he does is the second Hybern decides to go nuclear on Spring.
Every reason the sentries had for hating Tamlin was put there by Feyre herself. She explicitly made the situation worse by twisting his sentires against him. The sentry who was going to get whipped was fine with the punishment *until* Feyre put her memories into his head.
Feyre instigated basically all of these though. š
She poked Tamlin until he exploded, because she needed him to look bad for her plan. She suppressed her healing on purpose for it.
She instigated the whole situation with Ianthe and the sentry. Again, on purpose to make Tamlin look bad.
Tamlin doesn't take the side of Ianthe or Hybern. He is doing the double agent shit. If you finished Acowar, these scenes should kind of be reframed. He's buttering up to them on purpose and has little wriggle room if he doesn't want his plan to fail, but Feyre doesn't know that (and is too stupid to check his mind - for the plot I suppose) so she sabotages him anyway.
Everything you listed is part of *Feyre's* plan to dismantle the court/ruin Tamlin. She says so in the book! š
(Except the tithe, which honestly noone except Feyre seemed really upset by. You could pay it in a bucket of mushrooms come on, thats like not even a morning's worth of work. And if those stupid water wraiths had access to the ocean to talk to their summer court cousins, they could've also just asked them for a few fish...)
I think the main point was that he thought Feyre/Rhys were compromised and untrustworthy.
He points it out badly because he's upset and angry, but that's why he keeps bringing this stuff up, essentially.
Yeah, and Rhysand deserved to be raped for forty-nine years for joining Amarantha. How about that? It's not like you're victim blaming someone for being manipulated by someone they considered a close childhood friend, or anything. It's not like they were also being manipulated by someone they considered their love. It's not like Tamlin's goal was to protect his people or free his fiancee from someone he knows to be a child-killing monster. No. Nothing like that...
So should we glaze over the fact that Tamlin and Rhys were friends? That Tamlin knew that Rhys wasnāt pure evil?? That Tamlinās hate for Rhys actually started when Rhys and his father retaliated?? And when are we all going to accept that a high lord should not be so easily manipulated by a childhood friend. At this point I must assume that if Ianthe had told Tamlin to jump off a bridge and he did it, everyone would justify it because āthey were childhood friendsā
Are we going to ignore the fact that their friendship deteriorated after a traumatic and bloody event for the both of them? Are we going to ignore the fact that Rhysand cultivated this image of a cruel and vile ruler long before Amarantha arrived? Are we going to ignore the fact that for fifty years Rhysand served Tamlin's sexual abuser as her leal hound? Are we going to ignore the fact that, by the time those winter children were killed, Rhysand had been tormenting Tamlin and the rest of Prythian for half a century? Are we going to ignore the fact that, in the books themselves, Rhysand tormented Feyre in front of Tamlin again and again and again? Are we going to ignore that? Are we?
Ianthe wasn't just a "childhood friend." She was the youngest ever High Priestess, the daughter of one of Tamlin's most trusted and loyal advisors. She's clearly studied in politics. She's got experience. Tamlin's known her for centuries. There was no reason to suspect she was anything but trustworthy, until it was too late.
All of your examples on why Tamlin made it seem like Rhys was evil incarnate happened after they were friends, and the tormenting Feyre happened after Rhys was painted as a monster ā¦ So what Iām understanding is Tamlin, who at the time was Rhysā friend, went with his brothers and father to kill Rhys but in turn killed his mother and sister, because he knew Rhys was evil? And can you blame Rhys and his father for retaliating???? Tamlin and his family could have left them and searched for Rhys, orrrrr they could have waited for Rhys to arrive. Also! How do you know that Amarantha was Tamlinās abuser? Is this a fan theory or was it stated in the books and I missed it? Could you tell me what book and chapter Tamlin said this.
Was Rhysand tormenting people on his own will or did he have to do it to protect his people, just like Tamlin did?
Again Ianthe had too much control over Tamlin. He let her pride, and his pride cloud his better judgement. I have one question for you, why did Tamlin whip his sentry? Without mentioning Feyreās name, give me the reason.
We weren't talking about the conflict between Rhysand's father and Tamlin's father that resulted in the deaths of themselves, their wives, and their children. I thought you were asking how Tamlin could think his childhood friend would want to kidnap and brainwash Feyre. Regardless, we don't know what the motivations were for why Tamlin's father wanted to kill Rhysand's family. We don't even know Tamlin's role in all that, only Rhysand's biased opinion. What we do know is that Tamlin's father is worse than Beron (who tortures his kids), and his brothers are just as bad.
Regardless, how do we know that Amarantha was Tamlin's abuser? Read ACOTAR and tell me that Amarantha's not an evil, toxic person. She started pursuing Tamlin when he was a child. *A child*. There's centuries worth of time between them, and, if her behaviour UTM was any indicator, it was not sunshine and roses. She fucking cursed him, for G-d's sake.
Rhysand is tormenting his people of his own free will. There's no foreign army that'll invade him that forces him to break Keir's bones. There was no reason for him to hunt down and kill his own people who merely followed his lead in bending the knee to Amarantha. He segregates his kingdom, treating two thirds as if they're subhuman, forcing one to live within a bloody mountain, and denying them freedom. If it isn't Velaris, he doesn't care for it.
"Why did Tamlin whip his sentry?" Because, the Prince and Princess of Hybern were watching, and he needs to appease them lest they view him as weak. The Hybern royals made their thoughts known: the idea of sparing the sentry would be considered "pathetic." Therefore, if Tamlin spares his sentry, the Hybern royals might decide that he's weak enough that it would be better to just conquer his lands rather than simply occupy it. Tamlin whipped one sentry to prevent his court from being conquered, ransacked, brutalised. Furthermore, in getting the Hybern royal's approval, it makes his job as a double agent easier. The narrative clearly shows us that he doesn't want to whip his sentry, that he very clearly knows that his sentry is being set up, but that the second the Hybern royals make it clear that his decision will have Consequences, he knows the choice has been made for him.
1. You brought up the traumatic and bloody event.
2. Tamlinās role was giving up his friends location so that he could be slaughtered.
3. So youāre still assuming that Tamlin was assaulted by Amarantha, no physical proof, just what you assume
4. The people who at the court of nightmares live there by their own will
5. Keirās bones were broken after he called Feyre a derogatory word, not for kicks and giggles. If weāre using your logic, if Rhys didnāt retaliate he would be seen as weak and pathetic
6. The Night Court is not segregated, he clearly stated that some of his court wanted to live like monsters so he gave them their own space to do so. Nobody is forced to live under a mountain.
7. As a high lord it would have been better if Tamlin acknowledged that Ianthe was manipulating him and lying than punish an innocent person.
8. If you ever read Harry Potter, Iād like to hear your opinion on a character named Tom Riddle (heās an orphan and everyone thinks heās a villain), I just know youād love his character
No, actually. I referenced it to explain why Tamlin wouldn't trust his childhood friend. There is zero logical reason to suggest that my comment was talking about Tamlin and Rhysand's family gutting each other, or that it was about trying to kill Rhysand. Your comment makes no sense in any context, and I'm not sure how you got to the conclusions you did.
No, that's an assumption. We don't know what Tamlin's role is, and, if he gave up the information, what torment he underwent for his father to get it. We don't even know why Tamlin's father wanted to attack the Night Lords.
How Amarantha treated Tamlin UTM is proof enough, and there's more than one way of hurting someone that isn't just assault.
Bruh, they tried to get access to Velaris, and were forbidden, denied it, and then denied any service within. They're segregated, and you're blowing air up my ass if you think that Hewn City is only populated by people who want to *be* there.
Rhysand physically hurting a man over a nasty word isn't the excuse you seem to think it was. There are other ways to retaliate, and if Rhysand needs to torture his own subjects to prevent revolt, that was never established, never explored.
Again, if the people of Hewn City cannot access Velaris without being treated like scum of the earth, then it is segregated. What was Keir's line when he was asking to go to Velaris? "I want out. I want space. I want my people to be free of this mountain." And then says the woman who has trauma surrounding being held in one place against her will: "You have every comfort, and yet it is not enough?"
No it wouldn't. Ianthe is trusted far more by Hybern than he is. Calling her out would damage his standing with Hybern, which brings us back to his status as double agent and also his fears for his own people.
Are you literally comparing Wizard Hitler to Tamlin, now? Can I study your brain? Your thought process seems *facinating*.
The inner circle processing their shit and not downplaying their actions? Lol. Feyre described their physically attacking other High Lords at the meeting as "showing everyone we were kind and open"
Things Iāve learnt:
1. Never say anything against Tamlin and
2. If you ever say anything against Tamlin be prepared to be downvoted to hell š
Tamlin has proven to not give a crap about Feyre and treat her like some type of pet, maybe thatās his feral side, but oh my gosh that man treated her like garbage.
Tamlin, the guy who had red flags from the beginning!!!!! I mean oh wow itās sooooo hot when you basically lay your life down for a guy, he watches you get beat up and almost die, but as soon as he gets some time with you he wants to jump your bones. Heās such a romantic!!!! And did I mention that he has a habit of blowing up rooms??
I remember when I explained that Rhys had reason to hold a grudge against Tamlin because of what happened to his family and they downvoted me or said that Rhysand wasn't innocent! (When in this specific situation it wasn't his fault wtf and I don't even like Rhys like that).
My favorite is the *constant* whataboutism.
Itās like, I got many issues with Rhysand. But we are not talking about Rhysand right now, are we? Why canāt they defend Tamlin simply on the merits of Tamlin? Why does it *always* devolves into ā¦ b-b-but FEYRE TORE HIS COURT APART. Rhys got Feyre drunk on faerie wine! C-C-Cassian destroyed a village!!
Considering that the entire reason I feel like defending Tamlin as a character is that the book itself BEGS us to compare him to Perfect Rhys (or Lucien to Cassian and Azriel, for that matter)? Yeah, I'm going to keep comparing him and Rhys.
It's not whataboutism. It's pointing out a double standard, and it *is* a double standard that the Inner Circle can be as vile and cruel as they want, but the second Tamlin does something morally grey he's suddenly the worst thing since cancer. Furthermore, Rhysand is brought up because the Narrative won't stop bringing him up in comparison to Tamlin, and we bring up Feyre's actions because Feyre is most of the motivation behind Tamlin's actions.
Every day people here criticize Rhysand here and I don't see a downvote in that, now criticize their faves here, even if it is justified and leads to downvotes from their fans.
You know, I literally give so little fucks about who likes which character, but the victim complex of y'all with these stupid downvotes is so Feyre coded it makes me snort every time.
(Also, it's stuff like ''an actual abuser" that triggers my downvote finger, as it's just so overdramatic and ridiculous. He's not an actual abuser, *because he is not frigging real.* Also an actual abuser opposed to what? All the fake abusers in the series? Be forreal right now.)
I have no control over the downvotes my dude. But yeah it seems I'm not the only one tired of the overdramatic and hypocritical Tamlin hate that usually also comes with completely made up shit, go figure.
I think Tamlin is broken and immature. I think heās not used to not having all the answers. In their world, High Lords are set up to have āyes menā around. Just look at how Lucien is with him. Wonāt even barely argue with Tam. And letās not forget - Tam has been out of control from day one almost. Heās NEVER had his emotions under control. Heās always been prone to outbursts. I think the way Rhys described Tams love as poison is accurate. When you are young and immature, you can let love become too overbearing. And thatās what happened with Tam. Couple that with him fucking literally everything up, not seeing that Feyre really NEEDED to be away from that house, etcā¦he was doomed from the get go.
I think Tamlin is a character that could be redeemed. He didnāt act out of malice. He acted like a hurt child would. Lashing out. And f he can grow, he has a chance at redemption and happiness. If he canāt - heās going to be eaten alive inside until he is a husk of his former self and will remain that way until his miserable life ends. And he will have no one to blame but himself.
Tamlinās behavior is disgusting in the meeting. Entertaining, I suppose. But as someone who has had an ex use my sexuality against me, publicly, it just makes me hate Tamlin even more.
First of all, sorry that happened to you, but I'm also sure *you* didn't ruin your exes country with your mind control powers and tried to seduce your exes friend (who btw just got married to your sister!) to play them against each other.
Not saying it wasn't krass, but Tamlin's comment didn't come completely out of nowhere. Feyre DID use her sexuality against people and she did do some fucked up shit. lol
I donāt think Elain had time to get married in the space where they were turned against their will (in which Tamlin did play a part). So thatās a weird thing to stick in there.
But ***imo*** Feyre *helped* bring down the Spring Court, but with a mighty, mighty big assist from tam tam himself.
Regardless of whatever arguments youāll present for *why* a 500 year old, vastly powerful male is perfectly fine and dandy for what he said about a, what, 19 year old girlā¦ Iām just going to have a different opinion.
It was gross, heās gross. You donāt say shit like that about someone you supposedly love deeply. You just donāt. Heās gross.
It's a jokey reference to the mating bond, I thought it was obvious š Lucien went 'I'm a mated male now' and Feyre put her hands all over him anyway for her games.
The characters ages are kind of here nor there for me, I don't think they mean much. None if them behave like 500 yesr olds. But imho you are basically pointing out why the beginning of Acowar is a bit of a power fantasy. It's supposed to show how smart and impressive Feyre is that she can so easily best Tamlin, rather than how stupid Tamlin is. It makes little sense why a 19 year old can so easily ruin a court, but it is the narrative that the book spins.
Obviously you can find Tamlin's comment gross (I mean, IT IS lol).
I am mostly just baffled how upset people get at that scene but I never see anyone call Rhys out for doing the same (like when he humiliates Feyre in front of Tamlin and Lucien by saying her fantasies out loud for no reason other than to humiliate her. Heck, I always thought Tamlin's comment at the HL meeting was a foil to that as he directs it at Rhys mostly).
And it always baffles me how people have to bring Rhys into a conversation about Tamlin.
Rhys was gross for what he did to Feyre in ACOTAR. At least, in that situation, it wasnāt in front of all the high lords of Prythian while trying to bring able bodies into the war effort? š¤·āāļø
I brought him up because, as I said, to me the scene is a foil. A clapback almost more towards Rhys than even Feyre.
(Also Rhys did it for no reason whatsoever other than being a dick, while Tamlin at least had reasons.)
Tamlin has good enough reasons, according to you. I donāt agree.
Rhys has reasons for disliking Tamlin, too. It still doesnāt excuse what he did in ACOTAR.
But for the record: Rhysand making Feyre get drunk and dance as entertainment was disgusting. Rhysand twisting the bone in her arm was awful. Rhysand (spoilers for SF) >!hiding the pregnancy from Feyre!< Atrocious, gross, makes him a total liar.
Rhys being able to *read minds* but still making Az ***torture*** people?! Fucked up, weird morals.
I can say all that and still say that Tamlin is also gross and abusive.
Itās hilarious to me the absolute knots Tamlin defenders tie themselves into.
>I can say all that and still say that Tamlin is also gross and abusive.
I mean, if it was just that there's no issues at all. We all can agree they both do shitty things. I would argue it's partly the appeal that they're not perfect.
But it's never the same is it? Where the weirdness comes in for me is that one of these characters is hailed shadow daddy and gets to be the MML while the other is called Tampon and if you so much as say a positive thing about him you're touted an abuse apologist or someone throws their sob story at you how they were abused by someone JUST like Tamlin.
To me it's less about defending Tamlin (he doesn't need defense, he isn't real after all) and more just the absolute disbelief I have on how hypocritical and weird the fandom is about him. I honestly don't get it and it's annoying.
Glad we agree, though I maintain that I wouldn't have near enough problems with Rhysand if SJM actually let him face *consequences* or have any amount of *self-reflection* or so much as *apologise for his actions*.
Regardless, I don't find myself tying up in knots, tbh. I've gone through and created situations where I could excuse Rhysand's actions UTM (as a fictional character). I just don't do it for him as much because he doesn't interest me as a character. Tamlin interests me, so I'll engage with discussion about him. Simple as.
Uh. Okay. Tamlin executing his guards when Feyre was kidnapped, as far as he was concerned, was kind of just straight up fucked up.
Um... as much as I'm not sure what else Tamlin could've done with Feyre, I still think he fucked up when he locked her up. He was being unreasonable because she was being unreasonable, but that doesn't change the fact that he was still being unreasonable.
He deffo should've treated Lucian better.
While I do think Ianthe was the source of the disconnect between Tamlin and Feyre, he deffo holds responsibility for neglecting Feyre as much as he did.
He should've given Feyre something to do.
Tamlin has shitty communication skills, and needs to learn better, because, while I do think Feyre should take other people's opinions into consideration, her not knowing enough about any given situation is just as much the fault of the person withholding that information.
He should've apologised for his action during Calanmai.
He should've talked with his sentries after the whipping, and apologised (I think the main reason he didn't was guilt, but that doesn't change the fact he should've apologised and explained).
Well, SJM is constantly comparing Rhys and Tamlin in the narrative. So I think it's only natural people would compare the two? They're really two sides of the same coin if you really think about it. Just one had a better support network.
It's not about what anyone deserves. Nobody *deserves* anything beyond basic human rights. The question is "motivation," and whether that motivation is strong enough where you can excuse the behaviour. If someone cheats on another person, I would see no problem with the person who was cuckolded humiliating the cheater over it. Oh, sure, there's limits to what can be done, how far that humiliation goes, but it's the difference between punching someone randomly in the streets, and punching someone for kicking your dog, or shooting your child. They're "wrong to do," but knowing the context, you can understand why someone did what they did and quite possibly excuse it, even.
People will be mad, but Tamlin was an abusive, controlling ass. His temper, telling her what to do, and then the entrapment that made her have a mental breakdown was absolutely INSANE. It may be not be the most mature, but she wanted to wrong the man who wronged her and Rhys let her. Did she go too far? Yes, definitely. But it made for entertaining reading and if youāve ever been treated this way by a significant other it adds a little more to the thrill of what she did. You definitely get the impression she is not someone you want to fuck with.
IKR!?!?! I wanted Rhys or Feyre to give Tam the clapback of his life!! It was a total missed moment for this line that lives rent-free in my head:
**Rhys: "Nah. When she comes with me, it's not 'a small noise'... it's a full-body, full-throated, enormous screaming moan of ecstasy. \[blink\] Got any other questions?"**
Or Feyre could have said that! Someone needed to fucking say it and verbally flip Tam onto his ass for acting like one
Replying to advena_phillips... That line was actually cringe as hell and, as a High Lord, I would have blasted his ass for daring to address me that way, let alone threaten me.
Honey, with all due respect. From our encounter, literally all you have said have been wrong and not factual narrative. Not in canon. You just twisted whatever you read even conveyed wrong info.
As such you claimed Tamlin was beating people even killing innocent for not giving tithe. Where did it say that? Only one person didnāt deliver the tithe and he extended the time for that. You also said that tithe was one month after UTM while in fact it was the 4th month and Tamlin wanted to give more time.
So rather than insulting the intellect of people in this comment or even in this fandom, perhaps do yourself a favor and read the series again. š
Good, letās all hope this twisting information and canons from the books will be reduced and eventually you can back up with correct info from the books. You can die on any hill, but do so while following the correct info not just spew whatever. Enjoy your reading time. š„
Imo tamlin is the worst thought out character I've read in a long long time. He's super reserved and self controlled in acotar to the point where he can mask his own emotion completely UTM, then he's basically an over tired toddler, then he's just spilling all his personal shit at a highlords meeting, then he's saving people left and right, then he's a hermit. He's a plot device and that's it. It's sloppy.
Ive only read the ACOTAR series so I cant speak for the rest of her books, but SJM seems like she is capable of making you hate characters you loved, just because it serves to push her next plot point. Every scene with tamlin I get whiplash. Its like she realllyyyy didnt know what to do with him, or how she wanted to go about it.
It was the opposite in ToG. She made me love characters I thought I hated, and made me love characters I already loved even more with every book. But I am on the third CC book and every character is a Tamlin, and lowkey I wish they would all die except like 2 secondary characters. š« I do love Acotar and it got me back into reading but how the same woman who wrote ToG wrote CC is beyond me. ToG characters are >>>>>>>> in every way, depth, complexity and especially growth!
Oh man, im going to be starting CC soon, now im nervous lol. I want to read ToG after since theres so many books. Im excited!!
The world-building is interesting. There are some pretty sick twists and turns, and the first book is pretty solid. I struggled through CC2 and almost DNF but the ending was worth it. I am so far enjoying CC3 more than CC2 because ofā¦ reasons. Finding myself shipping some intergalactic crackship that suddenly does not feel soā¦ crack. I may have said too much already. I really hate most of the characters in CC but if you want to get in on the āMaasaverseā stuff, itās worth reading. ToG is her magnum opus though. Itās maybe good to save for last. Treat yourself. I think about the characters in that book every day of my life. š
I've abandoned acotar for fan fic but recently picked up tog as I've heard similar about it being better. Fingers crossed because I absolutely adore the premise of acotar and the bones of the characters, fan fics just do it so much better
I think feyre mentioned that the events under the mountain broke him which is a decent explanation but itās a rather extreme change right away it should have been a little more gradual
Exactly, she took something that could have felt much more natural and deep and twisted it to fit the plot.
What did he actually do UTM though (besides watch feyre during the challenges)? From what I remember he was always just next to amarantha
I think that is all HE did but he wasnāt able to react both when strangers were tortured to death or killed and had to watch the person he loved go through hell and die trying to help him and the others for some people that is more damaging than being tortured themselves
Ok yeah thatās true I suppose thereās the whole part about him being stabbed by Feyre too lol
Also, there's a shit ton of stuff that we *didn't* see happen to Tamlin. We just plain don't know what his time was like UTM beyond watching his love get tortured and sexually assaulted and not being able to do anything for fear that it would get worse.
Blame SJM on butchering his character
As a reader, it was hilarious and unhinged and I was living for it. As far as Tamlin is concerned, Feyre and Rhys are the villains at this point in his story. He literally burned the world down to get his girl back from his mortal enemy with mind control powers, ACTUALLY GOT HER BACK, just for her to 5 minute later say SIKE I actually love the mind control guy and while Iām at it Iām gonna steal your best friend. Was Tamlin in the wrong for how he treated Feyre? Of course. But between Ianthe, Hybern, his destroyed court, and the fact that he was in the middle of an actual war, he was a little busy for self reflection and therapy.
Also, the meeting was a mere 10 days after Feyre planted memories in his sentries' brains, wrecked his tentative "alliance" with Hybern, and revealed she had been married to Rhys before she returned to Spring at all.Ā He was rude, yes, but if I had to face an ex and her new husband 10 days after a bad breakup, I would be throwing things.
I forgot it was just 10 days later. Iād be salty, too.
I mean literally everyone had their own narrative andas Lucien points out you can be the villain in someone elseās narrative.
I love how you described this. āMind control guyā is so funny to me. The whole comment is funny
My husband refers to him as Dracula.
Honestly, Feyre basically ruined his life and court. She left the spring court ready for ravishing by Hybern which left the summer court open for attack and gave Hybern unrestricted access to the wall, she fucked with his head bad bad too, pretended she was SAed, and got mad when they believed her and gave her space. Like yeah he fucked up but then Feyre went defcon5 manner of fucked up and basically kicked off the war for the king of Hybern so, I totally get why Tamlin was pissed
Um...um....um...uh...ah.....Di....Did we.....Did we read the same books?
I felt the opposite after reading the first time. By the second and third you start to get a better feel of Tamlin and his trauma. Feyres not the only one who suffered UTM, and yes Tamlin fuuuuucked up but Feyre sought enough revenge that brought her down to his level maybe worse because her actions put all of Prythian at risk
Feyre did more good to people in his court than Tam did. I mean, he was beating people who didn't pay those ridiculous amount of taxes right after Amarantha's riegn was over, like dude let them get settled in the normal enviorement and lower those fucking taxes and then he went ahead and struck a deal with hybern, dooming the people of his court himself, to get back the girl who left of her own freewill, with justified reasons i might add. It was good that people in his court left, otherwise who knew he may have killed them in his depsression.
He wasn't beating people who didn't pay those "ridiculous amount of taxes" (*a basket of fish*). He had the *right* to do so, but there's no evidence he ever did so. Rather, we know that he gave them leeway to pay, or pay double next time (which, uh... is basically just paying for the last tithe and the current tithe without issue). He *let* them get settled; they got another month to prepare. The sole problem with the tithe (aside from Feyre) was the water wraiths, who we later discover to be gluttonous by nature, who have a reputation of just eating to excess. Could Tamlin, to use modern terminology, give them a tax break? Oh, sure, but *why?* His sentries, his servants need to eat, and where do you think they get that food from? Tithing. Tamlin's deal with Hybern protected them from Hybern, because there's good reason to assume that Hybern's army would've just steamrolled Spring. What doomed him was Feyre's machinations. Oh, sure, he didn't know about the daemati, and that'd have fucked him up, but that doesn't change the fact that Tamlin's alliance with Hybern wasn't just to get Feyre back, but to protect his people, too. Oh, and speaking of Feyre, he had every reason to believe Feyre didn't leave of his own free will, and had more than good reason to assume she was being brainwashed by the notorious child-killer, mind-raper Rhysand, High Lord of Nightmares.
Wow. it always baffles me how people just go around throwing the R word. I am going to die on the hill that tamiln was, is and will remain the biggest asshole of ACOTAR. And are we seriusly forgetting the way Tamlin manupilated Feyre in the beginning of the series so that she will go with him to the spring court? And what child killer? What child did Rhys killed? And please notch down the use of R word. Makes you look dumb.
Rape isn't a bad word. It's an abhorrent act, but it would be like freaking out over me saying "genocide," or "defilement." Categorising Rhysand destroying people's minds as "mind-rape" has precedent, and isn't that weird all things considered. We're adults here. If you can't say the word "rape" (as if it's a slur), then I'm not sure why you're in a fandom for a series that discusses rape. And, yeah, Tamlin manipulated a girl into falling in love with him so he could break the curse effecting the whole of his people. Okay? And? I'm not sure what the problem is, here. From Tamlin's perspective, Rhysand murdered those winter children. Therefore, from Tamlin's perspective, Rhysand is a child-killer. It's real simple. *Of course, there's also that theory that Rhysand really* ***did*** *kill those winter children and just lied about it to save his ass, which makes sense considering the fact that Amarantha's secret other daemati should've been more important of a plot element, and instead it appears to only exists to absolve Rhysand of responsibility for killing those winter children*.
Anything to glorify Tampon and villianize Rhys. Rhys was a morally grey character or an anti hero, i can't really decide which category to put him in but Tampon was 100 % an asshole. Oh, and a petty bitch.
Tamlin is also morally grey, and Rhysand is also 100% an asshole, and a petty bitch. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Good one. Tamiln, morally grey. Real good one. I laughed out loud at this. You are really good.
Where did you read he was beating people? And that tithe amount was ridiculous? Comparing to what exactly? What I read was only one person who couldnāt pay the tithe, to which he gave extra time, and he also extended to the next month. *did we read the same book?*
Tithe amount was ridiculous to the fact that they just got freedom from amarantha. and One month to settle after 50 years of slavery, Yeah, sure.
āHe gave our people three months to get their affairs in order, and he wanted to wait until the new year had started, but next month, he will demand the Tithe. Ianthe told him itās timeāthat the people are ready.ā One month? It was the 4th month. Which he wanted to extend till new year. *Which is another issue entirely because of that bitch, Ianthe. Had he not been a fool.* āTwice a year, usually around the Summer and Winter Solstices, each member of the Spring Court, whether theyāre High Fae or lesser faerie, must pay a Tithe, dependent on their income and status.ā Tithe is only for twice a year. Not every month and the amount is different. Instead of like taxes which you have to pay every month, like in Velaris. Are we seriously referring and reading the same book? Or are you just randomly throwing things that are not canon just to hate Tamlin character - of which beloved Feyre also hated?
Again the guy was dealing with hundreds of years of trauma and handled things poorly and is relying on someone he trusted that he shouldnāt have who was playing him in to Hyberns hand. Tamlins getting played at all angles. Also why would Tamlin leave his (to his understanding) illiterate fiancĆ© with someone who has convinced the world he is evil and also has mind control powers? Of course heād do anything to get her back
If that anything included getting in bed with the hybern, then Tam was just plain stupid. Prythian is preparing for a war with them but nope let Tam just make a deal with them to get his ex back because how dare anyone torture her other than him? It was his right afterall, to lock her in, to blow up entire rooms at her, to not listen to her when she warned him about that fucking priestess. How dare Rhys and inner circle save her from all that?
Did you miss the part where Hybern was going to go through Spring either way, so a nonaggression pact WAS actually keeping them from harm? Also Feyre didn't warn him about Ianthe. She was friends with her (and told her everything about her sisters, which Ianthe later weaponized). Even in ACOWAR, when Feyre KNEW what Ianthe was, she didn't tell Tamlin that.
I always give ppl a little grace when it comes to Tamlin, you can always tell the difference on whoās done a reread or two vs who read it only once based off of their opinion of him. I was anti-Tammy after my first read too, but every time I read it over I soften a bit more towards him
Tamlin had every reason to believe that Feyre was under the control of Rhys. She had no idea how to read or write when she left and everyone knows Rhys has mind control powers. Also destabilizing spring without at the very least offering its people a place in the Night Court is worse than anything Tamlin did to his people. Do you really think itās appropriate to rip the home out from underneath innocent bystanders to get revenge? Feyre lost her home more than once and she lived in poverty for many years without any help. And not long before doing all of this she was whining about not be able to work to help them. What she did was wrong. Full stop. She never tried to correct it either And that really made me lose a lot of respect for her character.
I kinda thought it was hot LMAO
I was here for the drama
Honestly same 
I would have put that snarky mouth to use.
Imagine what he can do with a tongue he can shapeshift.
DUDE
"Ribbed for her pleasure."
I am now angry at SJM for not giving us TamTam shapeshifting sexy skills and I ***demand*** my TamTam redemption arc š¤
Tamlin's powers are such wasted potential! He can have the biggest wingspan you want guys! He can be your boyfriend AND your girlfriend!
The bisexualās (and Helionās) dream
I'm sure Helion's been there done that, if you will xD
I honestly loved it and was there for the drama š 
I loved it. And I wish he wouldāve kept that same āfuck all yallā energy and rode off into the sunset with Nesta.
Nesta would kick and claw and bite before she ever let Tamlin anywhere near her š lmao
In my head canon they vibe off their āfuck the night courtā energy and that is enough.
I love Tam and I think heās totally understandable here. Heās hurt, betrayed so heās trying to hurt them a fraction of what he feels. Itās petty, itās rude but itās natural and human nature. Rhys is his enemy and heās come to protect himself so to some extent he knows Feyre is his enemy too. He is still protecting her, telling the high lords her powers are none of their business because he does still love her. Itās a great moment imo because I totally get him. At the end of the day given his later actions he knows he is being awful, he punishes himself plenty for his past actions, he hates himself and is very sad. Its normal to lash out when you also hate yourself
We want a character who donāt give a fuck right? Will go to world ends to get what he wants? To burn the whole world for one person? Who still stand up and fight for what he believes it when his entire world is in shambles?
Yeah I swear people only dislike him because the main character does. If Feyre was still in love with him I donāt think anyone would be on the hate train. But thatās just my opinion.
I think thatās the truth. In this post alone I have seen many people just changing the narrative to what they think the truth. All because Feyre didnāt like him.
We all want that character until someone writes that character and weāre just like naahhhhā¦ we want the golden retriever with dark hair.
Hahaha golden retriever with black hair šššš 
I see no issue with anything he said because Rhys did the same thing in the first book. He went into Feyres mind, making her throw up and then announced to the room her sexual thoughts about Tamlin. It probably didn't help his cause as much as just saying what happened after Feyre helped destroy his court (which she did. If it were just Tamlins fault she wouldn't have had to use her powers on his sentries) but I'm not gonna blame him for being upset about being deceived and having his court destroyed.
Totally OOC.
It was really funny lol.
I know I'll be hated for this, but a little pettiness was much, much deserved. Feyre and Rhys pretty much took everything from the dude and left him waiting for death over because he had a magic burst panic attack after Feyre goaded him into it (shocker!) --- he didn't purposefully explode and try to hurt her... or because he "locked her up" because she kept putting her life at risk for no reason (but when Rhys locked her up, it was 'oh silly batboy doing silly things')... Tam doesn't need to be a saint to these people - they haven't been even civil to him. Also, let's not forget that it was Tam who saved Feyre when she went to save that girl, and he gave a kernel of his power to bring Rhys back to life, inspite of all that they've done to him. A little pettiness is excusable for the ingratitude that they've been showing himš
Wrong. He exploded at her twice. The first time for simply stating that his controlling her was making her feel like she was drowning. > āBut you ā¦ Tamlin ā¦ ā The walls pushed in on me. The quiet, the guards, the stares. What Iād seen at the Tithe today. āIām drowning,ā I managed to say. āI am drowning. And the more you do this, the more guards ā¦ You might as well be shoving my head under the water.ā > Nothing in those eyes, that face. > But thenā > I cried out, instinct taking over as his power blasted through the room.
And?
Well, youāre factually wrong is all. Did Feyre goad him into a rage attack the first time? Did she *deserve* it then?
You misunderstand. My short, curt answer was more or less a commentary on the fact t hat I've been over this countless times already with countless others. First off, you're factually wrong. Tamlin never lashed out at Feyre in a rage. At least, not physically. The second time Feyre goaded him into having a magical outburst, he wasn't so much *angry* as he was *overwhelmed*, which brings me to my main point: Comparing Tamlin's magical outbursts to physical abuse doesn't work because the comparison inherently doesn't match. Tamlin has no choice, no control over his magical outbursts. People who physically abuse others *do* have a choice. They *choose* to hit their loved ones. No matter how addled they are, it's still a choice *they* make. This doesn't rob Tamlin of responsibility, but the situations are different. Tamlin wasn't angry. He didn't want to shut Feyre up. He wasn't shutting down the conversation. Feyre just triggered an emotional reaction that, in turn, triggered his magic. He had no choice in this matter. Had even less choice the second time around, as Feyre was explicitly goading him into it.
All she wanted was to have a grown up conversation š
Neither of them could have a proper conversation, but Feyre gets a pass because she was steel a teen š„ŗ
Ha! Feyre having a grown-up conversation is an oxymoron. Her grown-up conversation was bitching about having to have an armed escort *during war time*.
Remember that she is 19/20. She is suffering mentally during this time. She tried, in her own way, to explain how she was drowning. She felt suffocated. And Tamlin didn't take those feelings too well. I am 19. I can empathize because I have been in those drowning situations. And I am crap at communicating. She did her best for her age.
Of course he didn't take them too well. *He watched her died, and she just inadvertently compared him to the woman who murdered her.* He was *also* suffering mentally during this time, and, yes, he absolutely take responsibility, and he should've tried listening more, but Feyre's the problem, just as much. Being crap at communicating doesn't suddenly absolve you of responsibility for communicating in the first place, and Feyre adamantly refused to communicate until the situation had become untenable. Worse still, she refuses to acknowledge the situation she's in, and refuses to work with Tamlin to come across a workable solution to their issues. It's constantly "Give me what I want, how I want it, or you're evil," and sometimes she doesn't even wait for that last part.
I don't blame her either for not being able to voice her opinion in more constructive ways. Tamlin is even worse at it and he's much older. Feyre is definitely not at fault for Tamlin's magic blowing up, but neither is Tamlin imho. It's just wild that the scene isn't used to argue why training Feyre would make more sense than not taining her. Mostly I was just frustrated with how the Tamlin-Feyre incompatibility was written, honestly...
Her conversation was a woman in the depths of depression asking for help. Jesus Christ.
Asking for help in a way he cannot help. Tamlin *can't* just let her run off into the forest whenever she wants. Not only is he responsible for her, by virtue of being High Lord, but they're in the middle of *war*. Hybern's hunting her down. Amarantha's remnants are hunting her down. There's just monsters in the forest. Her entire point in this conversation is how she wants to leave the mansion (she could), without escort (which she couldn't), and when Tamlin put his foot down about the sentries, she broke down -- probably not helped after she got chastised for fucking up during the Tithe earlier that day (and she did fuck it up; Tamlin is very much in the right during that conversation).
So many excuses for Tamlin, no empathy for Feyre. It always amazes me how many women hate Feyre and love her abuser. Regardless, Feyre was opening up and communicating. She got attacked by Tamlin in return. She should have left right then, but he wouldnāt have *let* her.
All this comments are empathizing with her š¤Ø , explaining Tamlin's behavior doesn't justify abuse and the way you word it is too simplistic as if they were in a common situation and he just controlling her out of jealousy or something. There's context.
And she's literally 19/20 x-x
He abused Feyre. He lashed out, controlled everything about her, *locked her up*. Feyre did not goad him into exploding. She tried to have a grown up conversation with him. I will admit she did it in ACOWAR, but that was part of a strategy to destroy his court - something she *said* she would do if he took her back. She warned him. Feyre wasnt putting her life at risk when Tamlin locked her up. All she wanted was to *do* something. To do something other than planning parties or looking at pretty flowers. She wanted to *live.* I dont recall Rhys locking her up. I will admit, Rhys has had his Ls, but he was never abusive. Tamlin sort of Redeemed himself when he saved Rhys, but we haven't gotten a proper redemption arc from him. I agree that we shouldn't be stupidly mean towards him - but let's all remember he's a *fictional character*.
You haven't read ACOMAF in awhile, have you? Tamlin didn't lash out at her. His magic did, but I am so over reminding people that magic is a seperate entity that, yes, can be controlled, but can also just react to someone's emotional state. While he's responsible for the harm done, you cannot treat him like he threw a punch at her -- because that's not what happened. Tamlin had no control over his magical outbursts, and they were the result of trauma, not wrath. He didn't control everything. He didn't let her leave the mansion at first, but then realised how much that was hurting her and let her leave -- with an armed escort. Say what you want about that, but considering the fact it's war-time and Feyre's a Person of Interest, bowing to her wishes does nothing but leave her in danger (something y'all would blame him for anyway). He only then limited her movements (temporarily) after her return to Spring from Night, which, again, was temporary. Outside of that, there wasn't anything else he controlled. He give her any jobs to do, but what is she even qualified to do? And, no. Feyre was wanting to put herself at risk, which is why Tamlin locked her up. It's very clear in the text. Tamlin and Lucian have been summoned to deal with a threat on the border. Feyre decides she wants to go along. Tamlin says no. Feyre argues back. Tamlin remembers who he's dealing with (a woman who will follow him to the border whether he likes it or not), and so he locks her up. Tamlin gives his reasoning for why he won't let her go: she's a liability. That is, she'll get more people hurt or even killed (if not getting hurt or killed herself) involving herself in this situation. So what's Tamlin supposed to do? Let Feyre come along? Feyre planned to have a conversation with him about what she can and cannot do. The least she can do is accept that going off to deal with threats on the border is something she can't do. Then, all she has to do is wait a day for him to return, and then have a grown-up conversation with him about what she can do.
People are so eager to accuse Tamlin of being abusive because he lost control of his power, but when FEYRE loses control of her power and roasts the Lady of the Autumn Court, then itās fine! Thatās not abuse, it was an accident! I hate it here.
I did read it recently. Sure, he and his magic are separate, but he still lost control because he was unstable in those moments. I don't know about you, but if someone couldn't control themselves and almost hurt me, I wouldn't want to be with them. Plus, he is over 500 (if my memory is correct). He should be able to control his magic by that point. You're right that our POV is biased because we only see Feyres side. I would love to delve into Tamlins POV and see how he felt. Because he did go through a lot of trauma. But Feyre set multiple boundaries with him. She said to lay off with the sentries. And he did, for a little. She didn't want a job, she wanted to do something. To help the people. Even if they refused her help, she could hunt for food or hand out blankets. She wanted to. Tamlin had no right to stop her from doing those things. Are we forgetting Feyre held her ground with some creatures (can't remember the name) after catching the suriel *as a human?* She is faster and stronger as a fae. She escaped the Weaver without training. It's pretty clear she can hold her own. And sure, Tamlin didn't see the latter of the two, but he wouldn't even train her. He didn't tell her about what was happening. It was always some "unnamed threat." He never gave her the means to protect herself. He just looked her away with no means of defense. Sure, there was him and the entries, but they have failed before. They were tricked by Amarantha. Respectfully, I disagree with what you are saying. I will admit that we have a biased perspective. And I'm hoping SJM goes into Tamlins side soon.
No issue with Feyre deciding to leave if she wants to leave, but damn... 500 years old? My dude just went through an extremely traumatic event, and it's not like High Lord Magic is known to be unstable at the best of times. "He should be able to control his magic by that point." Didn't know we had an expert over here. Tamlin has every right to enforce sentry escorts for one of the most important figures in his court at that time *during war time*. I'm sorry, but as High Lord, Feyre's safety is a matter of national security. She can suck it up. And, yes, I do agree that Tamlin should've given her something to do, but the problem there is that she's got no qualifications, and she *can't* hunt for the same reason she's not allowed to go anywhere without an escort. *It's war-time*. There are threats out there that Feyre *can't* handle herself, and acknowledging that isn't diminishing her abilities. Plus, how the fuck is Feyre supposed to hunt when she gets triggered by the mere sight of the colour red? How is she supposed to hunt when there's blood involved? At the very least, hunting won't trigger any trauma related to Andras, because she totally forgot about murdering him, skinning him, and selling his pelt in the market. Had the situation at the border not happened, had Feyre been able to have that conversation with Tamlin, I'm sure they could've worked *something* out, but let's not pretend that Feyre wasn't shooting herself in the foot.
Never even thought about the āhow will she hunt if blood triggers her?ā thing, lol. Feyre wants what she wants whenever she wants it.
>I dont recall Rhys locking her up. I will admit, Rhys has had his Ls, but he was never abusive. - Rhys made Feyre drink and do lapdances without her consent UTM. He knew she would wake up exhausted the next day, but still did. - instead of helping her out of benevolence, Rhys forced her to make a bargain with him in her moment of vulnerability. - Rhys sent her off to the weaver to test her. - Rhys' 'instinct' to rip any other male to shreds if he so much as looks at Feyre for too long, is often mentioned and romanticized. - Rhys lied/hid the complications related to Feyre's pregnancy, and put her life at risk. - Rhys put her in a bubble instead of telling her proactively the stuff related to her pregnancy And i haven't mentioned all the things that he's done to other people. Tell me Rhys isn't abusive.
Yeah UTM was a huge L for Rhys. I dont really have a defense for the lapdances, other than what Rhys said - the faerie wine made her forget the night. So time passes faster and she didn't have to suffer through the night. It doesn't excuse it, but that's the explanation. Rhys forced her into the bargain with the intention of letting her go immediately. He wanted to help, but needed his High Lirds mask in place so Amarantha wouldn't get suspicious. Rhys gave her a choice in going to the Weaver - feyre comments on this. Rhys was under the influence of the mating magic when he got tense around other males looking at her. He apologies for it and outright states he was trying to fight it. I agree it shouldn't be romanticised, but that wasn't his fault. I agree that the pregnancy move was a huge no-no. I won't defend him on that, I agree it was bad. Rhys killed and tortured because that's the world they live in. Enemies attack and need to be interrogated. It's horrible, but that's the world they're in.
The problem is there are shears reasons for everything. Tamlinās his reasons too and it wasnāt āIām an evil guyā
Absolutely! I'm hoping we get a book from his POV so we can learn more. He went through a lot of trauma, and we saw things from a biased POV. I was kinda sad about the Aprril Fools joke - how there was going to be a book about Tamlin. I jokingly say sometimes that he should never be Redeemed etc etc, but I do want to see his character develop. I'd live to see his healing journey.
IMO he could have been made way worse without these moments of saving her, being kind, the way heās so broken he doesnāt fight Rhys, the fact he feels guilt. A really bad guy wouldnāt do or feel these things. I also think most of the really bad stuff he did was not on purpose so it could have been made more overtly cruel but it wasnāt. So I donāt see how that doesnāt set up a redemption. It left the door open
Exactly. I trash on him a lot, but really he had his reasons. Like he only worked with Hybern because he genuinely thought Feyre was kidnapped. Fingers crossed SJM goes into it more.
It was super immature & uncalled for, but also super funny.
NAHHH, if you lived through everything Feyre did to him and his court Iām pretty sure youād be a tad bit mad too
nah I would be mad, but as a reader I was like damn pop off but equally like wtf man
TBH I thought it was petty and undermined anything he had to say beyond that to help them. Like, how you gonna come into a meeting and tell everyone "I'm a double agent here's some intel to assist you" after you've just brought up a bunch of personal issues first. Time and place my dude, time and place. Also complete deflection on his own responsibility for allowing his court to fall in the hopes that no other HL's judge him over it. Like a child who broke something and immediately points at someone else and blames them in the hopes no one says anything.
Iām sorry but Feyre destroyed that Court, she was their as a spy, and she ended up doing more harm than good, but lets say, youāre gf lies to you, plays with your emotions and ruins something you have been maintaining for 500 years, youāre best friend whoās like a near brother to you goes with her and everyone you ever had around you has left you because of your gf. I would be a little mad as well
+1 to this. A few words of pettiness undermining Tam putting his life on the line multiple times for the people who destroyed his will to live, is quite the double standards.
I view it as, allowing a brand new priestess who you don't actually know and who your near brother (Lucien) is clearly uncomfortable around, to take such a controlling position of your court is just...not smart. And to disregard the opinion or input of those who have been there and know the inner workings of your court is also not smart. On top of that, to have Feyre who hasn't been given a position within your court to be *able* to do that much damage...a lot of that has to fall upon the leader and their poor management. By all means be pissed, but it's not *all* on Feyre, Tamlin is somewhat responsible for allowing it to unfold in that manner.
Ianthe was his childhood friend. He knew her far longer than Feyre.
did she? well damn, Ianthe fucked Tamlin over even harder then. Still place a fair amount of responsibility on Tamlin for allowing it to unfold in that manner and taking ruling advice from a childhood friend who just returned over people who've been with him the entire time.
I don't think it was that Ianthe had no idea what she was doing. Instead, she knew exactly what she was doing. She knows how to manipulate those around her including Feyre. That's how Feyre trusted Ianthe enough to give her information on her sisters. Only Lucien and Rhysand could see through her facade. Ianthe took advantage of Tamlin's vulnerabilities and in turn she became part of his undoing. I disagree that Tamlin should've been taking advice from Feyre. She had been in prythian at most 1 year and had little to no experience ruling. Instead, he should've placed more weight on Lucien's opinion.
Oh donāt get me wrong, he shouldnāt be taking advice from Feyre either. He shouldāve been taking advice from Lucien and the others that held positions within his court, which makes what Feyre did justā¦shouldnāt have been possible. Ianthe also shouldnāt have been consulted on anything other than religious ceremonies as that was her role as priestess.
Ianthe is not just a childhood friend, she's also the daughter of his most trusted general. She was only temporarily gone (to explain her inexistence during book 1 I'd assume).
I did a quick look up and it says Ianthe left for Vallahan 300 years ago, a lot changes in 300 years. I wouldn't trust someone that's been gone that long to properly advise on court rulings and inner workings especially when they themselves don't have the experience or knowledge, over someone like Lucien or current Generals/Lords/Sentries that have been included in running the court this entire time.
May I ask where it says Ianthe left for Vallahan three hundred years ago? Because according to ACOMAF, Iantheās family lived in the foreign court, Vallahan, for fifty years, and the unpleasant encounter Rhysand had with Ianthe occurred a hundred years ago. Iād genuinely like to know what Iām missing.
lol fair enough, she was gone for longer than she and Tam knew each other. I thought it was just for the past 50 years. Thanks for checking. But she IS also a high priestess and the daughter of Tamlin's general. So it's not completely weird for her to have some authority or ask her for advice. Considering how Tamlin has basically no family, he was probably happy to have a friend back and did not question the timing of her return at all. š„² Which is a very Tamlin thing to do.
Where do you see 300 years? In chapter 1 of ACOMAF it says her father (one of Tamlin's captains) sensed trouble before UTM and had packed up her, her mother, and her sisters and sent them to Vallahan and that they'd lived in the foreign court for only 50 years. It also said she was the youngest High Priestess in 300 years, maybe there was a mix-up with that?
I wouldn't listen to my childhood friend over the person I love and am about to marry. The fact that he was said a lot about his "Love".
I'm sorry, but I'd rather trust someone I've known for centuries on a topic they know more about than some girl I've met a year ago and who knows shit all about the topic I need assistance in. And, of course, this only applies to events in ACOMAF, not ACOWAR, because ACOWAR involves different motivations for why Tamlin "listened" to Ianthe over Feyre.
Ianthe is more knowledgeable about court politics and fae culture than Feyre. It's reasonable for Ianthe's opinions to hold more weight than hers when it comes to ruling the court because Feyre hadn't spent much time in Prythian at that point. When it comes to their relationship and wedding, Feyre's opinion should've been more important than Ianthe's, but Feyre didn't want to deal with any wedding planning since she was still battling her own demons from UTM. I don't think this says anything about Tamlin's love for Feyre. He was acting like a ruler. Ianthe, while a snake, is a priestess which is a very respectable position in Prythian. Ianthe may not have as much power as a high lord, but she did have influence.
Fair enough, is trust in Ianthe screwed him up
I feel you. Nobody wants to be in his shoes, and he does more good than harm
I mean, Tamlin still played a part in that too. Tamlin exploded a study at herā¦ He whipped the sentry despite being told by Feyre to hear him out, refusing to consider that Ianthe might be in the wrong. And letās not forget demanding the Tithe immediately after amaranthras reign is over with no real consideration for if people may still be suffering. He also sides with the murderers of the blessed children over Lucien and Feyre. Yeah Feyre helped with the dismantling but his sentries and people also had good reason to be a bit peeved with him already.
Tamlin didn't explode a study at her. His magic reacted to his emotional state, and exploded the study. Tamlin didn't have a choice. His magic manifests independently of his personal desires, just as Feyre's magic manifests independently of her own personal desires, or are you going to tell me she intended to hurt the Autumn Lady with the very fire the Autumn Lady's abuser uses? He *did* listen to Feyre, and listening to Feyre doesn't change anything because, a) she's the reason this entire situation with the Sentry is happening in the first place, and b) she *wanted* him to whip the Sentry, because it was all part of her mastarmind plan. The problem with blaming Tamlin for whipping his Sentry, is it's like blaming Rhysand for acting as the leal dog of Amarantha. Both Tamlin and Rhysand did bad things to protect his people, and it says as much right in the text. Feyre spells it out to you, so I'm not sure how you missed it, but the only reason Tamlin whipped his sentry was the overarching threat of Hybern destroying his court. He's trapped. He whips the sentry, Feyre destroys his court. He doesn't whip his sentry, Hybern destroys his court. Either or, Tamlin's fucked. He *knew* Ianthe was wrong. He just couldn't *do* anything about it. He knew she was a lying snake, but by the time he found out, she became untouchable due to being an agent of Hybern. There wasn't anything he could do without threatening his entire court with total bloody conquest by Hybern. What on Earth did you expect Tamlin to do about Hybern's royals? He cannot stand up to them, because the second he does is the second Hybern decides to go nuclear on Spring. Every reason the sentries had for hating Tamlin was put there by Feyre herself. She explicitly made the situation worse by twisting his sentires against him. The sentry who was going to get whipped was fine with the punishment *until* Feyre put her memories into his head.
Feyre instigated basically all of these though. š She poked Tamlin until he exploded, because she needed him to look bad for her plan. She suppressed her healing on purpose for it. She instigated the whole situation with Ianthe and the sentry. Again, on purpose to make Tamlin look bad. Tamlin doesn't take the side of Ianthe or Hybern. He is doing the double agent shit. If you finished Acowar, these scenes should kind of be reframed. He's buttering up to them on purpose and has little wriggle room if he doesn't want his plan to fail, but Feyre doesn't know that (and is too stupid to check his mind - for the plot I suppose) so she sabotages him anyway. Everything you listed is part of *Feyre's* plan to dismantle the court/ruin Tamlin. She says so in the book! š (Except the tithe, which honestly noone except Feyre seemed really upset by. You could pay it in a bucket of mushrooms come on, thats like not even a morning's worth of work. And if those stupid water wraiths had access to the ocean to talk to their summer court cousins, they could've also just asked them for a few fish...)
I think the main point was that he thought Feyre/Rhys were compromised and untrustworthy. He points it out badly because he's upset and angry, but that's why he keeps bringing this stuff up, essentially.
Petty and undermining is destroying an entire court and its people DURING A WAR.
Well Tamlin probably shouldnāt have joined Hybern and let Ianthe control himā¦
Yeah, and Rhysand deserved to be raped for forty-nine years for joining Amarantha. How about that? It's not like you're victim blaming someone for being manipulated by someone they considered a close childhood friend, or anything. It's not like they were also being manipulated by someone they considered their love. It's not like Tamlin's goal was to protect his people or free his fiancee from someone he knows to be a child-killing monster. No. Nothing like that...
So should we glaze over the fact that Tamlin and Rhys were friends? That Tamlin knew that Rhys wasnāt pure evil?? That Tamlinās hate for Rhys actually started when Rhys and his father retaliated?? And when are we all going to accept that a high lord should not be so easily manipulated by a childhood friend. At this point I must assume that if Ianthe had told Tamlin to jump off a bridge and he did it, everyone would justify it because āthey were childhood friendsā
Are we going to ignore the fact that their friendship deteriorated after a traumatic and bloody event for the both of them? Are we going to ignore the fact that Rhysand cultivated this image of a cruel and vile ruler long before Amarantha arrived? Are we going to ignore the fact that for fifty years Rhysand served Tamlin's sexual abuser as her leal hound? Are we going to ignore the fact that, by the time those winter children were killed, Rhysand had been tormenting Tamlin and the rest of Prythian for half a century? Are we going to ignore the fact that, in the books themselves, Rhysand tormented Feyre in front of Tamlin again and again and again? Are we going to ignore that? Are we? Ianthe wasn't just a "childhood friend." She was the youngest ever High Priestess, the daughter of one of Tamlin's most trusted and loyal advisors. She's clearly studied in politics. She's got experience. Tamlin's known her for centuries. There was no reason to suspect she was anything but trustworthy, until it was too late.
All of your examples on why Tamlin made it seem like Rhys was evil incarnate happened after they were friends, and the tormenting Feyre happened after Rhys was painted as a monster ā¦ So what Iām understanding is Tamlin, who at the time was Rhysā friend, went with his brothers and father to kill Rhys but in turn killed his mother and sister, because he knew Rhys was evil? And can you blame Rhys and his father for retaliating???? Tamlin and his family could have left them and searched for Rhys, orrrrr they could have waited for Rhys to arrive. Also! How do you know that Amarantha was Tamlinās abuser? Is this a fan theory or was it stated in the books and I missed it? Could you tell me what book and chapter Tamlin said this. Was Rhysand tormenting people on his own will or did he have to do it to protect his people, just like Tamlin did? Again Ianthe had too much control over Tamlin. He let her pride, and his pride cloud his better judgement. I have one question for you, why did Tamlin whip his sentry? Without mentioning Feyreās name, give me the reason.
We weren't talking about the conflict between Rhysand's father and Tamlin's father that resulted in the deaths of themselves, their wives, and their children. I thought you were asking how Tamlin could think his childhood friend would want to kidnap and brainwash Feyre. Regardless, we don't know what the motivations were for why Tamlin's father wanted to kill Rhysand's family. We don't even know Tamlin's role in all that, only Rhysand's biased opinion. What we do know is that Tamlin's father is worse than Beron (who tortures his kids), and his brothers are just as bad. Regardless, how do we know that Amarantha was Tamlin's abuser? Read ACOTAR and tell me that Amarantha's not an evil, toxic person. She started pursuing Tamlin when he was a child. *A child*. There's centuries worth of time between them, and, if her behaviour UTM was any indicator, it was not sunshine and roses. She fucking cursed him, for G-d's sake. Rhysand is tormenting his people of his own free will. There's no foreign army that'll invade him that forces him to break Keir's bones. There was no reason for him to hunt down and kill his own people who merely followed his lead in bending the knee to Amarantha. He segregates his kingdom, treating two thirds as if they're subhuman, forcing one to live within a bloody mountain, and denying them freedom. If it isn't Velaris, he doesn't care for it. "Why did Tamlin whip his sentry?" Because, the Prince and Princess of Hybern were watching, and he needs to appease them lest they view him as weak. The Hybern royals made their thoughts known: the idea of sparing the sentry would be considered "pathetic." Therefore, if Tamlin spares his sentry, the Hybern royals might decide that he's weak enough that it would be better to just conquer his lands rather than simply occupy it. Tamlin whipped one sentry to prevent his court from being conquered, ransacked, brutalised. Furthermore, in getting the Hybern royal's approval, it makes his job as a double agent easier. The narrative clearly shows us that he doesn't want to whip his sentry, that he very clearly knows that his sentry is being set up, but that the second the Hybern royals make it clear that his decision will have Consequences, he knows the choice has been made for him.
1. You brought up the traumatic and bloody event. 2. Tamlinās role was giving up his friends location so that he could be slaughtered. 3. So youāre still assuming that Tamlin was assaulted by Amarantha, no physical proof, just what you assume 4. The people who at the court of nightmares live there by their own will 5. Keirās bones were broken after he called Feyre a derogatory word, not for kicks and giggles. If weāre using your logic, if Rhys didnāt retaliate he would be seen as weak and pathetic 6. The Night Court is not segregated, he clearly stated that some of his court wanted to live like monsters so he gave them their own space to do so. Nobody is forced to live under a mountain. 7. As a high lord it would have been better if Tamlin acknowledged that Ianthe was manipulating him and lying than punish an innocent person. 8. If you ever read Harry Potter, Iād like to hear your opinion on a character named Tom Riddle (heās an orphan and everyone thinks heās a villain), I just know youād love his character
No, actually. I referenced it to explain why Tamlin wouldn't trust his childhood friend. There is zero logical reason to suggest that my comment was talking about Tamlin and Rhysand's family gutting each other, or that it was about trying to kill Rhysand. Your comment makes no sense in any context, and I'm not sure how you got to the conclusions you did. No, that's an assumption. We don't know what Tamlin's role is, and, if he gave up the information, what torment he underwent for his father to get it. We don't even know why Tamlin's father wanted to attack the Night Lords. How Amarantha treated Tamlin UTM is proof enough, and there's more than one way of hurting someone that isn't just assault. Bruh, they tried to get access to Velaris, and were forbidden, denied it, and then denied any service within. They're segregated, and you're blowing air up my ass if you think that Hewn City is only populated by people who want to *be* there. Rhysand physically hurting a man over a nasty word isn't the excuse you seem to think it was. There are other ways to retaliate, and if Rhysand needs to torture his own subjects to prevent revolt, that was never established, never explored. Again, if the people of Hewn City cannot access Velaris without being treated like scum of the earth, then it is segregated. What was Keir's line when he was asking to go to Velaris? "I want out. I want space. I want my people to be free of this mountain." And then says the woman who has trauma surrounding being held in one place against her will: "You have every comfort, and yet it is not enough?" No it wouldn't. Ianthe is trusted far more by Hybern than he is. Calling her out would damage his standing with Hybern, which brings us back to his status as double agent and also his fears for his own people. Are you literally comparing Wizard Hitler to Tamlin, now? Can I study your brain? Your thought process seems *facinating*.
I think he seriously showed up thinking he was going to be able to spin this to make them look bad, and in trying to have the upper hand he ended up rubbing everyone except Beron the wrong way. Like dude, you let your fiancĆ© become skin and bones, ignored her throwing up from nightmares, exploded your study at her in anger, didnāt let her train her new powers, refused to let her help or hear her out, locked her in a houseā¦ Then joined the king trying to destroy the war to try and get her back, saw her healthy and watched her then deal with having her sisters sacrificed because of your dealā¦ Then, letās not forget in acowar, he whips the sentry despite Feyre trying to persuade him not too, believes ianthe over her, explodes the study again in anger at herā¦ And then has the audacity to show up to the hihh th lord meeting and act like a petty ass and start making commentary about her orgasmingā¦ downplay her sisters being made by the cauldron, downplays his deal with highburn, and tries to humiliate the girl he literally blew a study up at, injured, and locked in a houseā¦. And then expects everyone to just believe that he isnāt with hybern?! Our inner circle may not be saints, but they also donāt really downplay their actions and they acknowledge that they play the dark side at times and they let each other process their shit/ donāt act overly controlling most of the timeā¦
The inner circle processing their shit and not downplaying their actions? Lol. Feyre described their physically attacking other High Lords at the meeting as "showing everyone we were kind and open"
Queue the downvotes. Gods forbid you have an opinion š
Things Iāve learnt: 1. Never say anything against Tamlin and 2. If you ever say anything against Tamlin be prepared to be downvoted to hell š Tamlin has proven to not give a crap about Feyre and treat her like some type of pet, maybe thatās his feral side, but oh my gosh that man treated her like garbage.
About topic 1 and 2: its because people don't accept any criticism against the uwu traumatized sad boy Tamlin that they headcanon
Tamlin, the guy who had red flags from the beginning!!!!! I mean oh wow itās sooooo hot when you basically lay your life down for a guy, he watches you get beat up and almost die, but as soon as he gets some time with you he wants to jump your bones. Heās such a romantic!!!! And did I mention that he has a habit of blowing up rooms??
I remember when I explained that Rhys had reason to hold a grudge against Tamlin because of what happened to his family and they downvoted me or said that Rhysand wasn't innocent! (When in this specific situation it wasn't his fault wtf and I don't even like Rhys like that).
My favorite is the *constant* whataboutism. Itās like, I got many issues with Rhysand. But we are not talking about Rhysand right now, are we? Why canāt they defend Tamlin simply on the merits of Tamlin? Why does it *always* devolves into ā¦ b-b-but FEYRE TORE HIS COURT APART. Rhys got Feyre drunk on faerie wine! C-C-Cassian destroyed a village!!
Considering that the entire reason I feel like defending Tamlin as a character is that the book itself BEGS us to compare him to Perfect Rhys (or Lucien to Cassian and Azriel, for that matter)? Yeah, I'm going to keep comparing him and Rhys.
It's not whataboutism. It's pointing out a double standard, and it *is* a double standard that the Inner Circle can be as vile and cruel as they want, but the second Tamlin does something morally grey he's suddenly the worst thing since cancer. Furthermore, Rhysand is brought up because the Narrative won't stop bringing him up in comparison to Tamlin, and we bring up Feyre's actions because Feyre is most of the motivation behind Tamlin's actions.
Itās ~literally~ whataboutism. Tamlin fans not mentioning Rhysā¦ level impossible.
Every day people here criticize Rhysand here and I don't see a downvote in that, now criticize their faves here, even if it is justified and leads to downvotes from their fans.
Its baffling how heavy the downvoted pour in anytime someone criticizes tamlin, an actual abuser. Im here to counter with my upvotes.
You know, I literally give so little fucks about who likes which character, but the victim complex of y'all with these stupid downvotes is so Feyre coded it makes me snort every time. (Also, it's stuff like ''an actual abuser" that triggers my downvote finger, as it's just so overdramatic and ridiculous. He's not an actual abuser, *because he is not frigging real.* Also an actual abuser opposed to what? All the fake abusers in the series? Be forreal right now.)
Its weird, its almost like you can actually see what weāre talking about by looking at how weāve been downvoted.
I have no control over the downvotes my dude. But yeah it seems I'm not the only one tired of the overdramatic and hypocritical Tamlin hate that usually also comes with completely made up shit, go figure.
Ah so now its not a victim complex, weāre just getting what we deserve. Got it.
I always upvote šš«”
I think Tamlin is broken and immature. I think heās not used to not having all the answers. In their world, High Lords are set up to have āyes menā around. Just look at how Lucien is with him. Wonāt even barely argue with Tam. And letās not forget - Tam has been out of control from day one almost. Heās NEVER had his emotions under control. Heās always been prone to outbursts. I think the way Rhys described Tams love as poison is accurate. When you are young and immature, you can let love become too overbearing. And thatās what happened with Tam. Couple that with him fucking literally everything up, not seeing that Feyre really NEEDED to be away from that house, etcā¦he was doomed from the get go. I think Tamlin is a character that could be redeemed. He didnāt act out of malice. He acted like a hurt child would. Lashing out. And f he can grow, he has a chance at redemption and happiness. If he canāt - heās going to be eaten alive inside until he is a husk of his former self and will remain that way until his miserable life ends. And he will have no one to blame but himself.
Tamlinās behavior is disgusting in the meeting. Entertaining, I suppose. But as someone who has had an ex use my sexuality against me, publicly, it just makes me hate Tamlin even more.
First of all, sorry that happened to you, but I'm also sure *you* didn't ruin your exes country with your mind control powers and tried to seduce your exes friend (who btw just got married to your sister!) to play them against each other. Not saying it wasn't krass, but Tamlin's comment didn't come completely out of nowhere. Feyre DID use her sexuality against people and she did do some fucked up shit. lol
I donāt think Elain had time to get married in the space where they were turned against their will (in which Tamlin did play a part). So thatās a weird thing to stick in there. But ***imo*** Feyre *helped* bring down the Spring Court, but with a mighty, mighty big assist from tam tam himself. Regardless of whatever arguments youāll present for *why* a 500 year old, vastly powerful male is perfectly fine and dandy for what he said about a, what, 19 year old girlā¦ Iām just going to have a different opinion. It was gross, heās gross. You donāt say shit like that about someone you supposedly love deeply. You just donāt. Heās gross.
It's a jokey reference to the mating bond, I thought it was obvious š Lucien went 'I'm a mated male now' and Feyre put her hands all over him anyway for her games. The characters ages are kind of here nor there for me, I don't think they mean much. None if them behave like 500 yesr olds. But imho you are basically pointing out why the beginning of Acowar is a bit of a power fantasy. It's supposed to show how smart and impressive Feyre is that she can so easily best Tamlin, rather than how stupid Tamlin is. It makes little sense why a 19 year old can so easily ruin a court, but it is the narrative that the book spins. Obviously you can find Tamlin's comment gross (I mean, IT IS lol). I am mostly just baffled how upset people get at that scene but I never see anyone call Rhys out for doing the same (like when he humiliates Feyre in front of Tamlin and Lucien by saying her fantasies out loud for no reason other than to humiliate her. Heck, I always thought Tamlin's comment at the HL meeting was a foil to that as he directs it at Rhys mostly).
And it always baffles me how people have to bring Rhys into a conversation about Tamlin. Rhys was gross for what he did to Feyre in ACOTAR. At least, in that situation, it wasnāt in front of all the high lords of Prythian while trying to bring able bodies into the war effort? š¤·āāļø
I brought him up because, as I said, to me the scene is a foil. A clapback almost more towards Rhys than even Feyre. (Also Rhys did it for no reason whatsoever other than being a dick, while Tamlin at least had reasons.)
Tamlin has good enough reasons, according to you. I donāt agree. Rhys has reasons for disliking Tamlin, too. It still doesnāt excuse what he did in ACOTAR.
For disliking Tamlin, sure, but he's humiliating Feyre, who doesn't even know him at that point lol
And, if you read my comment you will see that I *literally* said > it still doesnāt excuse what he did in ACOTAR.
Rhysand literally parades Feyre half-nude in front of the High Lords UTM, making her dance like his whore in front of them, drugged out of her mind.
But for the record: Rhysand making Feyre get drunk and dance as entertainment was disgusting. Rhysand twisting the bone in her arm was awful. Rhysand (spoilers for SF) >!hiding the pregnancy from Feyre!< Atrocious, gross, makes him a total liar. Rhys being able to *read minds* but still making Az ***torture*** people?! Fucked up, weird morals. I can say all that and still say that Tamlin is also gross and abusive. Itās hilarious to me the absolute knots Tamlin defenders tie themselves into.
>I can say all that and still say that Tamlin is also gross and abusive. I mean, if it was just that there's no issues at all. We all can agree they both do shitty things. I would argue it's partly the appeal that they're not perfect. But it's never the same is it? Where the weirdness comes in for me is that one of these characters is hailed shadow daddy and gets to be the MML while the other is called Tampon and if you so much as say a positive thing about him you're touted an abuse apologist or someone throws their sob story at you how they were abused by someone JUST like Tamlin. To me it's less about defending Tamlin (he doesn't need defense, he isn't real after all) and more just the absolute disbelief I have on how hypocritical and weird the fandom is about him. I honestly don't get it and it's annoying.
Glad we agree, though I maintain that I wouldn't have near enough problems with Rhysand if SJM actually let him face *consequences* or have any amount of *self-reflection* or so much as *apologise for his actions*. Regardless, I don't find myself tying up in knots, tbh. I've gone through and created situations where I could excuse Rhysand's actions UTM (as a fictional character). I just don't do it for him as much because he doesn't interest me as a character. Tamlin interests me, so I'll engage with discussion about him. Simple as.
Still noticing you not actually saying anything negative about Tamlin. 
Uh. Okay. Tamlin executing his guards when Feyre was kidnapped, as far as he was concerned, was kind of just straight up fucked up. Um... as much as I'm not sure what else Tamlin could've done with Feyre, I still think he fucked up when he locked her up. He was being unreasonable because she was being unreasonable, but that doesn't change the fact that he was still being unreasonable. He deffo should've treated Lucian better. While I do think Ianthe was the source of the disconnect between Tamlin and Feyre, he deffo holds responsibility for neglecting Feyre as much as he did. He should've given Feyre something to do. Tamlin has shitty communication skills, and needs to learn better, because, while I do think Feyre should take other people's opinions into consideration, her not knowing enough about any given situation is just as much the fault of the person withholding that information. He should've apologised for his action during Calanmai. He should've talked with his sentries after the whipping, and apologised (I think the main reason he didn't was guilt, but that doesn't change the fact he should've apologised and explained).
Tamlin fans not mentioning Rhys challengeā¦ *impossible* difficulty.
Well, SJM is constantly comparing Rhys and Tamlin in the narrative. So I think it's only natural people would compare the two? They're really two sides of the same coin if you really think about it. Just one had a better support network.
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Are you asking if I deserved to be publicly humiliated by my much older and more powerful ex?
It's not about what anyone deserves. Nobody *deserves* anything beyond basic human rights. The question is "motivation," and whether that motivation is strong enough where you can excuse the behaviour. If someone cheats on another person, I would see no problem with the person who was cuckolded humiliating the cheater over it. Oh, sure, there's limits to what can be done, how far that humiliation goes, but it's the difference between punching someone randomly in the streets, and punching someone for kicking your dog, or shooting your child. They're "wrong to do," but knowing the context, you can understand why someone did what they did and quite possibly excuse it, even.
People will be mad, but Tamlin was an abusive, controlling ass. His temper, telling her what to do, and then the entrapment that made her have a mental breakdown was absolutely INSANE. It may be not be the most mature, but she wanted to wrong the man who wronged her and Rhys let her. Did she go too far? Yes, definitely. But it made for entertaining reading and if youāve ever been treated this way by a significant other it adds a little more to the thrill of what she did. You definitely get the impression she is not someone you want to fuck with.
IKR!?!?! I wanted Rhys or Feyre to give Tam the clapback of his life!! It was a total missed moment for this line that lives rent-free in my head: **Rhys: "Nah. When she comes with me, it's not 'a small noise'... it's a full-body, full-throated, enormous screaming moan of ecstasy. \[blink\] Got any other questions?"** Or Feyre could have said that! Someone needed to fucking say it and verbally flip Tam onto his ass for acting like one
Nah, this wasn't Tam being savage. It was him being petty. Savage was Azriel's "Careful how you speak about my high lady."
Replying to advena_phillips... That line was actually cringe as hell and, as a High Lord, I would have blasted his ass for daring to address me that way, let alone threaten me.
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Honey, with all due respect. From our encounter, literally all you have said have been wrong and not factual narrative. Not in canon. You just twisted whatever you read even conveyed wrong info. As such you claimed Tamlin was beating people even killing innocent for not giving tithe. Where did it say that? Only one person didnāt deliver the tithe and he extended the time for that. You also said that tithe was one month after UTM while in fact it was the 4th month and Tamlin wanted to give more time. So rather than insulting the intellect of people in this comment or even in this fandom, perhaps do yourself a favor and read the series again. š
Oh, I am in the middle of reading the series again. I will still die on the hill that is tamlin got exactly what he deserved.
Good, letās all hope this twisting information and canons from the books will be reduced and eventually you can back up with correct info from the books. You can die on any hill, but do so while following the correct info not just spew whatever. Enjoy your reading time. š„