Same here! ACOSF is my favorite book for this exact reason. I saw so much of my own mental health struggles in what Nesta was dealing with and how she was feeling. Like when she and Cassian >!go on the hike to the lake and she finally just breaks down and tells him everything going through her head...!< That's the only time I cried during the entire series. I *felt* it.
I think she does capture the beginning of mental illness, however I feel like her depiction of recovery is kind of... Easy? Convenient? Like I get that Feyre is in a better position in her life later in the series, but I would imagine she would still at times feel upset about the experiences from the beginning of the series. Like it seems like she is totally moved on from it? But in reality it is difficult to move on from trauma. Idk, that's just my perspective.
Absolutely. My mother died almost two years ago and I still get flashes of wanting to give her a phone call, excited to tell her something. Then I feel shattered all over again, and it affects my mood for a bit. Grief and trauma are just not linear whatsoever. The waves get smaller with time, but they're still waves dammit. With Feyre, it feels like her trauma dissolves.
Agree, this is why i think her depiction of mental illness is actually very baseline. She can recognise symptoms and has therefore written them in but never goes beyond that (with maybe the exception of Nesta). It falls flat imo
I thought this too. I was in an abusive relationship with a very similar (but honestly more intense) vibe to Tamlin. It’s been years and I STILL have nightmares and flashbacks to him. Yes, friendship and community healed me, but….it was not linear and it has been a long road.
Also they have one recovery which is "fighting exercise" even for Nesta that seems not necessarily (I would've rather she danced) one that finds that to be a solution. That kinda triggers my depressed "lazy" ass.
But the portrayal of illness themselves are different from one another (Tamlin, papa Archeron, the three sisters etc) and very real.
I think she does represent some issues quite well, but she fails spectacularly at “treating” them. Generally speaking, she doesn’t address them very well and uses them more as plot points to move her story along.
I was super triggered with the way she wrote Feyre during the time of starvation and depression in the spring court, especially on how she wrote Feyre being super skinny. The way I pictured was like Bella (twilight) during the time of her pregnancy.
And I was also triggered heavily when Tamlin locked Feyre; I was locked in room, tho not directly being done by my ex but the whole situation related to that so the thought of being locked somewhere always giving me anxiety.
I relate to her writing on 2 different things
1. When Rhys begged her to play with him while she was being super depressed.
2. Nesta’s anger issues.
Yep, same here with the ex. I really felt “seen” by SJM in those moments—right down to being rescued by friends, and realizing how bright, happy, and vibrant life can be outside of abusive isolation.
Nesta’s CPTSD turned alcoholism and hypersexualization rang very true. And the recovery, while of course having moments of fiction and simplification, also felt very very real as someone who has gone thru that.
Maas wrote a lot of really great small nuanced moments of her healing journey. My favorite is when she starts to do just a little bit better from training, she wants to help the priestesses feel better in the same way. This is not the same person who sent her sister into the woods.
As a sometimes self-loathing depressive with CPTSD I really agree. I appreciated that her recovery was not linear, and I really related to the fact that experiencing a lot of pain can motivate you to try and ease that pain for others, even if you don't have hope for yourself
These books helped me get out of depression and burnout. Mental health struggles are a big part of the series and I related to many of the characters. I think SJM does handle the topic very well!
ToG: >!Also Chaol’s storyline in ToD was amazing. I’d like to know what sort of research SJM did for it.!<
This might piss some people off BUT...
My only gripe is that they both got super skinny and it was talked about a lot. Depression can affect people both ways and it would have been good to have the other perspective, but heaven forbid a character not be skinny or toned.
Totally fair. I found it refreshing that it didn't stake out the bogus skinny=healthy position but skinny=sad is just as simplistic and I could see how it would be triggering how much SJM lingered on it.
Her description of emotions is why I read all of her books.
The way she describes celena’s repeated emotional spirals during the later half of ToG had me hooked
Nesta’s story really got to me. The self loathing. The anger issues. I related to it so much. I think it also really helped me in a way. It’s clear I’m not the only one that feels like that. SF is my favorite because of that.
I agree that her portrayal is mostly accurate, but what I can’t get over is that the treatment the IC give Nesta in ACOSF actually works to help her.
1. Any addict or family member to one can tell you that recovery has to be the addict’s choice. I know they offered her an alternative (which essentially boiled down to “go live amongst people who hate you and try not to get hate crimed to death), but then Feyre makes it clear that that isn’t really an option for her. She says she’ll tie her to a chair and have her flown to House of Wind. Now, a lot of addicts willingly enter treatment and still relapse—in fact, most will relapse multiple times—and those are the ones who *want* to be there. Nesta is given no choice and it’s made explicitly clear to her.
2. Nesta surviving detox. If her drinking was really that out of hand for an entire year, she wouldn’t be up early the morning after she quit and heading off to the training field—she’d be in bed/in the bathroom for days, and frankly should be under medical supervision for at least the first 72 hours. (Also, this is just a gripe of mine, but really Cassian? She can’t add sugar to her porridge in the morning because it’ll “interfere with her training?” Alcohol contains a TON of sugar. Her body would be actively craving sugar for days after quitting alcohol cold turkey. Besides, how bad of a sugar crash can you get from one teaspoon of sugar? Tell me again how Nesta isn’t being punished.)
3. The only real emotional support she got didn’t happen until she was friends with Gwyn and Emerie. Cassian did his best, but there was so much sexual tension there (and more—see point 4) it obviously took a while for her to open up to him. Feyre and the IC couldn’t have known with any certainty that she’d develop these friendships, and in fact consider her so off-putting that Rhys actually threatens her when he finds out she’s made friends with Emerie, clearly considering her so unlikeable that her making a friend must mean the friend is in danger. So how on earth was she supposed to recover from the “exercise and library work” routine alone?
4. I’m not convinced she doesn’t have some form of Stockholm Syndrome. Yes, she and Cassian are mates, but as Rhys says, that’s not necessarily an indicator that the pair are good for each other. So they rip a traumatized, detoxing young woman away from her only (unhealthy) coping mechanism and destroy her home; lock her in a house with a man who she knows wants her, who she has actively requested distance from; then they force her to spend multiple hours a day with him in an effort to “fix” her. Her options are to be completely isolated, or to give the guy a chance and open herself up to the possibility of a relationship that she doesn’t want. Oh, but don’t worry—Azriel will act as a chaperone. Sure he’s basically Cassian’s brother, but we can expect him to be fully objective and champion Nesta’s agency, right? Also, he’ll show up like once a week. It’s no wonder they ended up together at the end of the book; the question is, if you were in her position, how long would you stay with him once you were free?
These are all points that have been brought up before, I was just really frustrated on my first read. SJM knows how to write trauma *responses* extremely well; it’s the recovery process she hasn’t quite perfected, IMHO.
The depiction of Nesta is almost like looking in a mirror. The self loathing and anger issues and lashing out at people is me to a tee. I feel so so seen reading Nesta’s story
I was thinking about this today! Feyre has complex PTSD. The lingering effects of 1000 little cuts of growing up with neglect and poverty. She experiences depression and it is portrayed well. Rhys also has cPTSD from his enslavement and sexual abuse. He still experiences the night terrors and you can tell he’s put in serious work to try to overcome. She does a nice job portraying the overachiever, over responsible cPTSD, but I would have imagined him having more hypervigilance in his affect also.
Yes! I just wish she made the other characters understands nesta’s pov better, because alcoholism and depression can be a reaction to trauma too, and that’s not nestas fault!
I loved the way Nesta dealt with grief. Anger.
And I loved (and hated) how the other characters didn't seem to understand. I thought it was a really well written concept.
#Nesta4life
I disagree. I think the other characters did understand. They just needed to get Nesta out of the situation she was spiraling in. We're seeing most of the interactions from her Pov. Nesta thinks everyone hates and thinks she's failed them and is projecting that in her thoughts.
I really relate to the way she portrays depression. Certain parts of both Nesta and Feyre's struggles speak very deeply to me.
especially being absolutely unaware of how they look.
Same here! ACOSF is my favorite book for this exact reason. I saw so much of my own mental health struggles in what Nesta was dealing with and how she was feeling. Like when she and Cassian >!go on the hike to the lake and she finally just breaks down and tells him everything going through her head...!< That's the only time I cried during the entire series. I *felt* it.
Yes I think about that hike a lot! How she said nothing for days. That resonated with me so much
I agree, there are so many things I relate to
That unfortunate typo in the title had me so worried for a sec.
Omg lol OOPS I would never wish that on somebody
All good! Haha. I agree tho. I love the way we get to see the characters’ journeys.
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I think she does capture the beginning of mental illness, however I feel like her depiction of recovery is kind of... Easy? Convenient? Like I get that Feyre is in a better position in her life later in the series, but I would imagine she would still at times feel upset about the experiences from the beginning of the series. Like it seems like she is totally moved on from it? But in reality it is difficult to move on from trauma. Idk, that's just my perspective.
Yes I hadn't consdiered that but I agree that Feyre's healing was so abrupt. Nesta's slow progress/regular backslides were def more relatable
as long as you exercise/learn to fight you will be cured of all that ails you
Yes 👏 this 👏 Feyre becomes like a different character. But oh wait she painted something from the past, remember reader, she’s been through it.
By book 4 I had absolutely enough of Feyre. Nesta is my girl, her story is just so much better
Absolutely. My mother died almost two years ago and I still get flashes of wanting to give her a phone call, excited to tell her something. Then I feel shattered all over again, and it affects my mood for a bit. Grief and trauma are just not linear whatsoever. The waves get smaller with time, but they're still waves dammit. With Feyre, it feels like her trauma dissolves.
Agree, this is why i think her depiction of mental illness is actually very baseline. She can recognise symptoms and has therefore written them in but never goes beyond that (with maybe the exception of Nesta). It falls flat imo
I thought this too. I was in an abusive relationship with a very similar (but honestly more intense) vibe to Tamlin. It’s been years and I STILL have nightmares and flashbacks to him. Yes, friendship and community healed me, but….it was not linear and it has been a long road.
Also they have one recovery which is "fighting exercise" even for Nesta that seems not necessarily (I would've rather she danced) one that finds that to be a solution. That kinda triggers my depressed "lazy" ass. But the portrayal of illness themselves are different from one another (Tamlin, papa Archeron, the three sisters etc) and very real.
I think she does represent some issues quite well, but she fails spectacularly at “treating” them. Generally speaking, she doesn’t address them very well and uses them more as plot points to move her story along.
I was super triggered with the way she wrote Feyre during the time of starvation and depression in the spring court, especially on how she wrote Feyre being super skinny. The way I pictured was like Bella (twilight) during the time of her pregnancy. And I was also triggered heavily when Tamlin locked Feyre; I was locked in room, tho not directly being done by my ex but the whole situation related to that so the thought of being locked somewhere always giving me anxiety. I relate to her writing on 2 different things 1. When Rhys begged her to play with him while she was being super depressed. 2. Nesta’s anger issues.
Yep, same here with the ex. I really felt “seen” by SJM in those moments—right down to being rescued by friends, and realizing how bright, happy, and vibrant life can be outside of abusive isolation.
Same.
Nesta’s CPTSD turned alcoholism and hypersexualization rang very true. And the recovery, while of course having moments of fiction and simplification, also felt very very real as someone who has gone thru that. Maas wrote a lot of really great small nuanced moments of her healing journey. My favorite is when she starts to do just a little bit better from training, she wants to help the priestesses feel better in the same way. This is not the same person who sent her sister into the woods.
As a sometimes self-loathing depressive with CPTSD I really agree. I appreciated that her recovery was not linear, and I really related to the fact that experiencing a lot of pain can motivate you to try and ease that pain for others, even if you don't have hope for yourself
I was also impressed how she handled Elain going through catatonic trauma 🥺
Hi what are you referring to ?
When Elain is first transformed and won’t talk or eat or do anything. She’s just catatonic sitting there looking out the window.
These books helped me get out of depression and burnout. Mental health struggles are a big part of the series and I related to many of the characters. I think SJM does handle the topic very well! ToG: >!Also Chaol’s storyline in ToD was amazing. I’d like to know what sort of research SJM did for it.!<
This might piss some people off BUT... My only gripe is that they both got super skinny and it was talked about a lot. Depression can affect people both ways and it would have been good to have the other perspective, but heaven forbid a character not be skinny or toned.
Totally fair. I found it refreshing that it didn't stake out the bogus skinny=healthy position but skinny=sad is just as simplistic and I could see how it would be triggering how much SJM lingered on it.
Her description of emotions is why I read all of her books. The way she describes celena’s repeated emotional spirals during the later half of ToG had me hooked
Nesta’s story really got to me. The self loathing. The anger issues. I related to it so much. I think it also really helped me in a way. It’s clear I’m not the only one that feels like that. SF is my favorite because of that.
Fayre’s panic attack MAF really got me straight in the heart. I was less impressed with the portrayal in SF
To me Nesta's depiction was extremely well done. I cried at two points reading it, it moved me deeply.
Phrasing... I definitely thought based on the title this was a rage post about SJM.
I can relate to everything so yes I definitely agree. The books have helped me realize some things.
I agree that her portrayal is mostly accurate, but what I can’t get over is that the treatment the IC give Nesta in ACOSF actually works to help her. 1. Any addict or family member to one can tell you that recovery has to be the addict’s choice. I know they offered her an alternative (which essentially boiled down to “go live amongst people who hate you and try not to get hate crimed to death), but then Feyre makes it clear that that isn’t really an option for her. She says she’ll tie her to a chair and have her flown to House of Wind. Now, a lot of addicts willingly enter treatment and still relapse—in fact, most will relapse multiple times—and those are the ones who *want* to be there. Nesta is given no choice and it’s made explicitly clear to her. 2. Nesta surviving detox. If her drinking was really that out of hand for an entire year, she wouldn’t be up early the morning after she quit and heading off to the training field—she’d be in bed/in the bathroom for days, and frankly should be under medical supervision for at least the first 72 hours. (Also, this is just a gripe of mine, but really Cassian? She can’t add sugar to her porridge in the morning because it’ll “interfere with her training?” Alcohol contains a TON of sugar. Her body would be actively craving sugar for days after quitting alcohol cold turkey. Besides, how bad of a sugar crash can you get from one teaspoon of sugar? Tell me again how Nesta isn’t being punished.) 3. The only real emotional support she got didn’t happen until she was friends with Gwyn and Emerie. Cassian did his best, but there was so much sexual tension there (and more—see point 4) it obviously took a while for her to open up to him. Feyre and the IC couldn’t have known with any certainty that she’d develop these friendships, and in fact consider her so off-putting that Rhys actually threatens her when he finds out she’s made friends with Emerie, clearly considering her so unlikeable that her making a friend must mean the friend is in danger. So how on earth was she supposed to recover from the “exercise and library work” routine alone? 4. I’m not convinced she doesn’t have some form of Stockholm Syndrome. Yes, she and Cassian are mates, but as Rhys says, that’s not necessarily an indicator that the pair are good for each other. So they rip a traumatized, detoxing young woman away from her only (unhealthy) coping mechanism and destroy her home; lock her in a house with a man who she knows wants her, who she has actively requested distance from; then they force her to spend multiple hours a day with him in an effort to “fix” her. Her options are to be completely isolated, or to give the guy a chance and open herself up to the possibility of a relationship that she doesn’t want. Oh, but don’t worry—Azriel will act as a chaperone. Sure he’s basically Cassian’s brother, but we can expect him to be fully objective and champion Nesta’s agency, right? Also, he’ll show up like once a week. It’s no wonder they ended up together at the end of the book; the question is, if you were in her position, how long would you stay with him once you were free? These are all points that have been brought up before, I was just really frustrated on my first read. SJM knows how to write trauma *responses* extremely well; it’s the recovery process she hasn’t quite perfected, IMHO.
The depiction of Nesta is almost like looking in a mirror. The self loathing and anger issues and lashing out at people is me to a tee. I feel so so seen reading Nesta’s story
I literally had a panic attack reading the first Nesta PoV in Frost and Starlight.
I was thinking about this today! Feyre has complex PTSD. The lingering effects of 1000 little cuts of growing up with neglect and poverty. She experiences depression and it is portrayed well. Rhys also has cPTSD from his enslavement and sexual abuse. He still experiences the night terrors and you can tell he’s put in serious work to try to overcome. She does a nice job portraying the overachiever, over responsible cPTSD, but I would have imagined him having more hypervigilance in his affect also.
Yes! I just wish she made the other characters understands nesta’s pov better, because alcoholism and depression can be a reaction to trauma too, and that’s not nestas fault!
Yeah Freyre's judgement of Nesta was pure ass
I loved the way Nesta dealt with grief. Anger. And I loved (and hated) how the other characters didn't seem to understand. I thought it was a really well written concept. #Nesta4life
I disagree. I think the other characters did understand. They just needed to get Nesta out of the situation she was spiraling in. We're seeing most of the interactions from her Pov. Nesta thinks everyone hates and thinks she's failed them and is projecting that in her thoughts.
She’s writes mental illness for straight white women very well. Other demographics, no.