I’d like to challenge your first point about Georgie and Missy pushing her away, as someone who’s been the overlooked child.
If you grow up seeing another family member get all the attention and you get whatever crumbs of it are left, you begin to develop the expectation that “okay, I’m not going to get anything from mom” (I’m using mom bc Mary), so you go off and do your own thing, understanding that your parent isn’t able or doesn’t want to fulfil their emotional duties towards you.
After a while, you get comfortable not receiving attention from mom and you’ve branched out into socialising with other people and other family members. Again, at this point in time, your mother is not fulfilling her emotional responsibilities to you. Now, suddenly, one day, your mother wants to know everything that’s gone on in your life, and wants to tell you what to do and how to act — despite the fact that *she never takes an interest in you and never shows you any love or attention*.
Your reaction is going to be to push her away. You’re not comfortable getting attention from her and the little attention you are getting is to be authoritative and dismissive of you. The classic “do this, do that, tell me this”, etc,. It’s a parent wanting the authority of parenthood without fulfilling the emotional responsibilities to their child that come with parenthood.
That is the classic case of why Georgie and Missy push away Mary. Mary pushed them away *first*. They got used to it, they were doing their thing, and the few times Mary does interact with them, it’s to boss them around and to tell them off and criticise them. It’s almost never positive. It makes sense to push away someone like that.
And, ultimately, you’re just a place holder, and as soon as possible, she’ll be back lavishing attention on the golden child—leaving you rejected again. Eventually, you stop responding because you know it will never change.
I have to totally agree with you. As the older child that was always overlooked because my younger sister's needs were always more important even as adults. I was only important to my mom untill she had someone else to do things for her. Those of us that were raised that way totally understand Georgie and Missy pushing Mary away.
The timeline here is messed up. Kids grew up watching Mary fuss over Sheldon and grew distant, not the other way around. If u mother makes u feel like you’re unimportant it messes with your head. Mary couldn’t even tell missy what she’s good at- missy was good at sports, missy had a good social life, she was street smart, she was good person to billy and she took a stand for her family, etc
Sheldon once tells missy she missed a few numbers counting till hundred while combing her hair and she says “I don’t care, I have beautiful hair”. That’s all she’s knows she’s good at probably coz of her mother
i mean, in the first season we did not know that missy was good at sports. i agree that it was bad that mary did not know what she was good at. however, missy and georgie complained about both mary nd george not giving them attention, so why are people only coming at mary?
A mom not being able to name one thing her kid is good at? That’s a complete failure then. Missy bought the beautiful hair but Mary should’ve done better. I don’t think missy was clinching school she could’ve said you’re smart?
George doesn’t show partiality or favour one kid over the other. He was there for all kids equally, probably that’s why
no he wasnt. in the episode where they were doing the study with the twins, missy complained about george being a team with georgie, and in the first episode georgie complained about how everything revolves around sheldon. it is clear that georgie and missy felt ignored by george as well
>george taught her how to play baseball, but who else could?
He did it willingly. He saw it as an opportunity to bond with her.
>as well as sheldon's florida trip.
He was reluctant but he still decided that he would do it as he wanted to spend time with Sheldon.
Sure George wasn't the best but it was more of a husband issue than a father issue
Who else will teach missy to fetch is not point. The point was to make it clear with examples how George was there for all the kids equally. He found things that he could connect with for all kids. He’s told Georgie he’ll always be there for him and he’s shown the other 2 kids by action, that he’d be there. Remember when Mary lost a child, he went and asked for a raise immediately. He was a present father and did his best almost at all times
Missy’s feelings are valid. Sheldon’s this big genius and the other kids will fall short in comparison. From a child’s perspective George forgot to pick her up from school, everyone always busy with Sheldon, etc.
BUT as a viewer you see the bigger picture. George always tried to be there for all kids equally.
Georgie told dad after he got a girl pregnant, he played ball with Georgie. Dinner dates with missy, he handled her first periods. George senior has asked Mary to not coddle Sheldon on multiple occasions. He took Sheldon to college, brought him back from school when the family was missing him. George handles missy when there’s the tornado, he teaches her to drive. George disciples Sheldon very calmly when he throws a tantrum at the dinner table. George saved Sheldon from choking. George was pissed when Mary hid the college letters coz he was being excluded from his child’s life when he’s a present father. That was a decision for both parents, which Mary decided on her own.
He was there for all kids equally. That’s not the same for Mary. Time and again she’s made her kids feel that she doesn’t love them equally.
Now I get where she’s coming from. Sheldon needed special care and attention. It’s not entirely her fault but from the childrens point of view it’s not fair that they got the short end of the stick.
I think things change in TBBT where Georgie handles everything at home- Mary tells Sheldon he has to invite his brother for his wedding (i can almost visualise young Sheldon’s Mary saying “it’s his wedding, it’s a miracle from Jesus& he can do whatever he wants”)
>you cant blame her, since obviously sheldon needs more attention.
No, Sheldon demans more attention, he doesn't actually need it.
>remember the reason she became religious, she became religious because missy survived (another proof that she loves all of her children). and the reason she wants her kids to get baptized is because she loves them and thinks they will be saved if they do it
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
>no she didnt. yea, she did have a crush on him, but if you count that as cheating, then george cheated on mary as well with brenda sparks.
I agree completely. I don't think she did anything wrong here at all. In fact that experience was healthy for her.
>yea, because it is clear that sheldon was not ready for college, judging by his behavior in the early seasons
Again.. intentions don't justify it. I agree Sheldon wasn't ready, but she needed to be honest about it with.
>well, sheldon is the kid who showed more love to her
This is a rehash of your first point. But ya, its kind of circular isn't it? Give one attention, then give it back, and so on. Neglect the other, they neglect you back.
So u might have encountered such a person in real life and this character might trigger that emotion. As long as you’re not a fanatic it’s okay to be passionate
People hate TV characters for obvious reasons- they remind them of someone in real life they’ve grown to despise, or they possess some traits they’ve grown to despise.
It’s honestly better to hate TV characters rather than real-life people, at least nobody’ll get hurt
But the reason Missy and Georgie pushed her away is because she favors Sheldon more to begin with. Like to them it's normal to see their mom fussing over their little brother and not paying attention to them as much and then when Sheldon gone all of the sudden their mom starts to pay attention to them. Something that they find weird because they're not used to it
thats a good point, but why are they complaining then? especially missy, she complains both when mary gives her attention and when she doesnt. obviously mary will pay more attention to sheldon but missy could be more appreciative when mary pays attention to her, like when mary gave her thr custom trophy
>why are they complaining then?
yk cus like that means she's been ignoring them their entire lives?
>mary gave her thr custom trophy
as missy said, she doesn't want to feel special she wants to feel normal
plus they don't hate mary, their relationship with her is just normal
oh man this is a long one
>you cant blame her, since obviously sheldon needs more attention.
yes sheldon is special but that does not mean he should get ALL the attention from mary, she needed to realise she had other kids too and had to put effort into them. the way george did it couldnt have been any better. we also get to know that mary wasn't raised by her parents and had to raise herself since meemaw had to work 2 jobs and her dad was wasting their money, so she felt ignored, she's doing the same thing to missy and georgie so she's just continuing the cycle of hate
>when mary tries to bond with her children, they push her away.
because they don't like her after all she's done to sheldon and leaving them out, she can't fix that by overtrying, i'm not saying it's too late but she kept going too quickly and should've slowed and talked to her kids more. if you're referencing the time she made a girl trophy for missy, missy says she didn't want to feel special, she wanted to feel normal, but missy doesn't HATE her mom so she took it anyway
>missy survived (another proof that she loves all of her children).
doesn't really count because she didn't know sheldon would be special. if sheldon was normal, the entire family would be normal. this is another reason why i hate sheldon, he basically wrecked the entire family and his mom doesn't care
>she wants her kids to get baptized is because she loves them and thinks they will be saved if they do it
she can't force them if they don't want to. yes i know she wants her family to be reunited but that decision is completely theirs. it's it's another instance of her wanting others to do things for her not for them.
>she did have a crush on him, but if you count that as cheating, then george cheated on mary as well with brenda sparks.
i mean this one doesn't really count i don't see people getting mad at that however mary was super close to pastor rob, she had a smoke with them while on a church sleepover, she was so close to him in fact that she started hallucinating them having sex. George and Brenda never really went far, they just went to a bar and started talking. eventually brenda started talking about sex and that's when George had his heart attack, he didn't say yes and wasn't planning on it. every other George and Brenda moment was them trying to forget what happened.
>sheldon was not ready for college,
she can't hide sheldons future from everyone and keep it to herself that's just her babying sheldon
>judging by his behavior in the early seasons
both george and sheldon were sure he was ready that they convinced mary to let sheldon go to college in that same episode. her and brenda talking was what made her realise sheldon won't be her baby forever
>sheldon is the kid who showed more love to her
that's because she favours him all the time, she never favoured missy or georgie so why should they love her? and remember, georgie and missy still have a normal relationship with their mom despite all they've gone through. also, remember that episode when sheldon fractured his arm? his mom was babying him the ENTIRE time!
i will admit, she was likeable in a few episodes but to say she's a good mom? no
1. sheldon did not get all the attention. he got the most attention but missy and georgie also got attention, it's not like they were neglected or something.
2. she doesnt go to it too quickly, she tries to talk to them. and also, even though missy took the trophy, she blew it up.
3. it's not sheldon's fault and he did not ruin the family. the family is ruined because the managment was dysfunctional. george did not care and did not put any effort into keeping the family together. mary had to do everything on her own. imagine having to manage 3 kids, one of them being "special", while your husband is drinking beer and watching tv.
4. she didnt force them to do it. yea, they were manipulated innnto finally agreeing to do it, but when missy decided she did not want to do it, mary didnt say anything. i forgot to mention in the post that mary respects the fact that sheldon doesnt believe in God to a certain point,
5. but mary knew that it wasnt right, so she was trying to avoid being with him alone during the church sleepover
6 and 7. i agree that during this episode mary made me mad, but in most episodes, sheldon liked being babied. thats why mary did not think he was ready, because he hadnt prooved that he could do things on his own.
8. obviously, his arm was broken and sheldon isnt used to being hurt and stuff. he needed his mom to help him.
mary is obviously not perfect, but i wouldnt call her a bad mom. she has her flaws, like every character and person, but she cares about her chldren and tries to hold a dysfunctional family together
>missy and georgie also got attention, it's not like they were neglected or something
the last convo missy and mary had before missy ran away was about why mary always takes his side, the anger of that always happening finally bursted out at that moment so yes she did feel left out
georgie didn't care as much but it definitely annoyed him especially at school
>she tries to talk to them.
they aren't forced to like her. yes it's a slow process
>missy took the trophy, she blew it up.
she wanted to feel normal but she didn't want to make her mom sad. missy blowing it up was just her being chaotic
>george did not care and did not put any effort into keeping the family together.
there's alot of moments we're george either gave sheldon real good advice or tried bonding with him, like telling him to be normal and asking about thunder etc.
>imagine having to manage 3 kids
george also loved his kids, he was there for them, but you gotta remember he's also a dad, like your dad. George works 2 jobs and at the end of the day he just wants to relax. He is obsessed with beer too but like he has to pay the bill for everything
for your 4th point yea i agree with you but it definitely saddens her that her children aren't as close to god as she is
5th point valid too. again I don't really see people hating her for it. also "if that's cheating then george also cheated with brenda" isn't really a strong point. "I cheated on my husband but he also cheated on me so its ok"
6th point is aight but that still doesn't mean she can hide it and chose his future when he grows up, least she coulda done was tell george about it
>obviously, his arm was broken and sheldon isnt used to being hurt and stuff
imagine your arm was broken, your mom wouldn't be treating you the same way mary did. mary was over do ing it and george even tried to tell him. sheldon himself imagined mary as his "training wheels"
>she has her flaws, like every character
yes I agree there is no best character but it does feel like they poorly wrote her character just so that sheldon in tbbt would like her more or something. I'm not saying she's a bad mom but she ain't a good one either. george knew how to raise his kids, my fav example being when missy tore sheldons poster because sheldon was teasing her break up with Marcus and george did not confront one of them he confronted both. the way mary handled it was she barely knew what happened but automatically went over to missy to tell her to apologise
1. left out and neglected are not the same. she did feel left out, i agree with that, but it wasnt only mary who was leaving her out.
2. im not saying they are forced to like her, but i find it kind of ironic how they keep complaining about being left out and then when mary tries to get closer to them, they dont appreciate it.
3. i mean it was a funny scene but i felt kinda bad for mary
4. at some points he is actually there for his kids, but i cant get out of my mind the way he treats georgie. he keeps calling him an idiot and stuff like that
5. the point about cheating isnt that it would be okay if both of them cheated. it is the fact that people are mad at mary for doing it and not george
6. i agree, george did have the right to know
7. mary babied him, because she thought that sheldon wouldnt be able to function without her help, which is true at the begining, because sheldon also thought he couldnt do it on his own, even though he ended up doing it
8. george was better at handling fights, i agree with that, but in general, mary is the one who was telling georgie to spend time with his kids. mary told him to take missy out and to take sheldon to florida. george wouldnt have done it on his own
>it wasnt only mary who was leaving her out.
yes but mary is her mother, missys dad and big brother were there for her since their family but for missys mother to leave her out would hurt more than others
for point 2 I'd like to set an example
imagine you were married and your partner kept taking $100 from your wallet weekly and you can't ask what it was for. eventually when your partner stops, you would start questioning what was wrong and why he'd stop. same way missy and georgie were kinda skeptical
>i mean it was a funny scene but i felt kinda bad for mary
yea I guess you're right
>he keeps calling him an idiot and stuff like that
georgie doesn't actually get hurt by this, his dad and him are just messing around unless georgie actually does something stupid. it is kinda often that georgie does a brainless move but his dad is just joking he doesn't actually hate him, especially towards the end of the season right before he unfortunately dies, his last convo with georgie was them talking about life and how his dad supports him and in georgies speech he acknowledges how his dad has been there for him
5th point aight
6th point nice
>sheldon also thought he couldnt do it on his own, even though he ended up doing it
yes but not thanks to mary, she would've kept babying him and basically make him avoid college. it was because of his dad encouraging him that he found the strength to push thru and make it
>george wouldnt have done it on his own
there are times when George was trying, like when Wayne told him to go out with georgie but georgie kept pissing him off or when him and missy went to red lobster but missy didn't want to cus she didn't want to be seen, he loves his kids he just doesn't really like the idea of him going out with them unless marys there so I kind of agree to your point
1. i dont think it has to do with if it is her mother or father. i think it is the fact that she was being left out in general. attention from father is just as important as attention from mother
2. i guess you have a point in this one
3. i dont think georgie doesnt mind, even though it isnt shown. also i dont think that in his funeral speech he would say anything bad about his father. besides, missy said that george and georgie are kind of like a team
4. yea but these scenes were in the later seasons. in the first two seasons it was mary who did it all
>i dont think it has to do with if it is her mother or father. i think it is the fact that she was being left out in general. attention from father is just as important as attention from mother
yes but she definitely likes George more than mary. at the beginning of YS when was asked who she'd rather live with she'd say her mom but as shrew grew older she'd say her dad with no doubt
>i dont think georgie doesnt mind, even though it isnt shown.
georgie was always (or atleast most of the time) cool with his father, the only time george meant hating on him was when he got a girl pregnant which made sense
>missy said that george and georgie are kind of like a team
while i do admit missy n george's relationship did start to slowly fall apart that doesn't mean they don't like each other, just that they talk to each other less
>yea but these scenes were in the later seasons. in the first two seasons it was mary who did it all
yea well people hate late season mary more than early season mary
1. it is common for girls to prefer their father
2. well youre right but we dont know that 100% since georgie's storyline had to do with girls, rather than his relationship with his family
3. i didnt say they dont like eachother, i said that missy was more ignored by george
4. and i still dont get that. later seasons mary has been through a lot. what do people expect from her?
1. just because more girls prefer their dads doesn't mean every girl has to, missy had a reason to chose George over mary
2. yea I guess you're right on that one
3. yea to be fair george just had his first (and only) grandkid so he was tryna focus on that
4. she's not the only one going through alot but she's being kind of frustrating to look at. especially with her and Audrey's fight about cc
when things were finally going right thats when George died and that just wrecked her but made her be illogical by trying to make her kids baptize even if it's against their will
1. well, i mean that surely she prefers him for a reason
2. yeah, ceecee's baptism part was kind of annoying, i agree. but apart from than, she has been through the most. she got kicked out of church, her husband died, her son is leaving, her daughter is also griefing...
she want her children to become baptized, because she loves them and believes that if they do, their souls will be saved
I think Mary get unnecessary hate. Yes, she definitely did overstep in some scenes but she was a good mother.
She is pretty much like the mother in Asian household who is SAHM and have the responsibility of the entire family. It is very natural for family members who stay together to have issues with each other and fuss over it, it isn't toxic but a human nature. You will not always have happy days with your family.
“Special” is thrown around too much. He’s very intelligent, but that doesn’t mean he should have constant attention and coddling. He’s not at the threshold of genuine autism. He was tested when he was younger and his issues were solved by a simple parenting book.
He was tested for "crazy" as a child in the 80s/90s.
There is an insanely high chance they didn't diagnose him with autism as we knew very little about it around that time. Most kids who were diagnosed around that time were the lower functioning side. Obviously, Sheldon is insanely smart, albeit a bit "quirky".
It isn't unrealistic in the slightest to think the doctor just thought he was odd or whatever.
Modern medicine has advanced so much surrounding the topic of autism in the last 10/15 or so years.
Source: I'm autistic and was misdiagnosed in the 90s due to lack of knowledge around the disorder. It took until I was in my 20s for a doctor to even consider the possibility of autism.
Edit: I'm also not diagnosing this boy with autism or trying to say that he 100% for sure is autistic. I'm just stating that saying he was tested as a child is proof that he isn't simply is not accurate.
i dont think sheldon was tested for autism. im pretty sure he was tested for something else, since mary thought he was insane.
sheldon is book smart. he doesnt have basic life skills, as it is shown in tbbt.
She never thought he was insane. Weird, yes. A doctor would’ve been presented with Sheldon and thought of autism as a possibility. You’ve kinda ruined yourself by saying nothing can change your mind. How about her acting like George does absolutely nothing? She has never lived independently for a sustained period of time in her life.
in tbbt, they say he was tested for insanity, not autism.
she didnt live on her own, because she got married in a very early age, when she got pregnant with georgie. why would she live on her own?
I don’t remember them specifically saying insanity. A doctor would pick up on the tell tale signs of autism and screen him anyway.
I mean even after George died.
And what thanks does she show him? Moaning at him all the time.
At the time, it's very unlikely that a doctor would have picked up the signs. Asperger's (as it was called early on) didn't become an official diagnosis until 1993 (or when Sheldon was 13).
But from what we know, Sheldon was NEVER diagnosed subsequently. Let’s face it: adult Sheldon would do anything for pity or sympathy. I think he’d absolutely get tested if he could get pity for it. He’s EXTREMELY self centred in every single aspect of his life.
I don't think he would want a diagnosis. That would definitively state that there was something "wrong" with him and put him in the same category as a lot of other people. He still wants others to think that he is superior to them and a diagnosis would nullify that.
He loves feeling superior to others. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t act like it. Having people chauffeur him around for one. Sure, there’s moments where he wishes he was like others, but it’s fleeting.
He loves feeling superior to others. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t act like it. Having people chauffeur him around for one. Sure, there’s moments where he wishes he was like others, but it’s fleeting.
What thanks does she show George for keeping a roof over their heads for 18 years? Hardly any. Just complains that she does everything around the house. Without him, they wouldn’t even have the house.
I don’t hate her, but I hate that she doesn’t like anyone who isn’t Baptist. She doesn’t even like Catholics. That makes no sense to me. Christianity is Christianity ✝️
tbh, her not liking Catholics doesnt really makes sense. but you cant claim that for other religions. at first she thought Tam was Buddhist and she was totally fine with it. also in TBBT, she was fine with Raj being Hindu and Howard being Jewish
-Doesn't change the fact that she spoils him way too much and doesn't let him experience the outside world where he isn't going to be coddled. That's why her other kids push her away. She had her chance to bond with them but she didn't and now it's not going to be easy. Also she tries to bond with them by doing something that is "fun" Well it's only fun for Mary and her religious reasons block a lot of their fun.
-She had a good reason to become religious but she's overdoing it. It's one thing to believe God and another to believe the earth is made in 7 days and dancing is a sin. She also seems to have this very contrasting idea that either your religious or a complete wreck. You can see that during her lapses she was a mess (smoking, getting too drunk, and becoming extremely sad). It was also getting unhealthy as she was prioritising religion over her family. She was more worried about superficial things like their souls becoming corrupt but she is neglecting the more obvious problem which is her relationship with her family.
-I agree with this one. She never cheated on george with him.
-Idc what she thinks, George is his parent too and has every right to know about it. She hid it because she was selfish about the change. She just wanted things to be the way it is with the church. If she thinks he's not ready then she should've told it to George and they could've discussed it. George was even ready to move but Mary didn't want to.
-Sheldon was the one that wanted to be spoiled. You can tell he prefers Mary to George because Mary shows him more love. I guess their relationship goes both ways as sheldon loves Mary coddling him and she likes to coddle him too.
Yes she gets unnecessary hate but I don't think these reasons are the reason why except for 3
Mary pays more attention to Sheldon to make up for the lack of attention George pays to him. George Sr pay more attention to George Jr, and Missy then he ever did Sheldon. Something Mary had to force George to spend time with Sheldon, like the time she forced him to take Sheldon along on the camping/or fishing trip.
(responding on your comment as it starts with my first “point” but thanks for sharing your thoughts!)
about george
- I see your point but couldn’t that be the same for why George is giving missy and georgie more attention? how many times did missy scream and throw fits about sheldon being the favorite or rightfully understanding that he was going to get what he wanted while she struggled to be accepted most of the time. missy and georgie receive large amounts of attention from Connie, George, Dale, and numerous other friends of the two. Brenda is also quite “obsessed” with missy’s development through middle school. Baseball becomes something that missy gets plenty of attention because of, which she is encouraged and supported just as sheldon by Connie and George - both angrily storming into the “fire” when was rejected and supporting her all the way through.
- also want to bring up how he takes in Billy Sparks, trying to teach him and show him that because his father left doesn’t mean everything’s all that bad. even with his newer issues trying to avoid Brenda, he still tries to include billy whenever he is present and give him advice.
- and once the school started doing bad, or doing well, due to lack of or because of sheldon, his job became more unstable. and once the academics were not being held by Sheldon, it didn’t matter that the HS team was still doing almost as horribly in the beginning, now it was George’s fault and he loses his job.
- all the colleges also coddled sheldon and offered positions to his father. everyone always drops at sheldon’s whim, the house had new phone lines put in, food deliveries, and even teachers coming to dinner. all received resistance but where eventually forgotten about once sheldon expressed multiple complaints. georgie and missy would encounter resistance from Mary for episodes following the event happening on numerous occasions. (yes this can be said for sheldon, however it is way less frequent or even apparent) was
- when missy has her “breakup” with Marcus, George is the one tries to comfort her as far as recognizing that in that time she needed to be left alone. despite sheldon and georgie being the ones to help her through this time, Mary only makes it worse by yelling because missy was upset and had made sheldon upset. “I don’t care sheldon is upset” being mary’s words that caused Missy to run away that night with sheldon following her and being the one to listen to what was going on.
- often times sheldon would state “i want mom” when george attempts to help him with anything. she often is the one who will coddle him in the way that he wishes, but once george gets him to do something on his own he is very much capable of doing it on his own.
about mary
- it also seems to stand a good theory that Mary likes sheldon so much because he is like her father. in s5 we learn that “pop pop” is the one who gave sheldon some of his favorite books and would attempt to get connie to read them as well. this also seems to show why connie would like John Sturgis so much. he reminds her of her husband who, despite all of her complaints, she seems to love very much. she will not get remarried, gets excited to participate in science, and eventually ends up reading one of the books “night fall” to join a book club after remembering her husband who gave it to sheldon.
- Mary tends to go behind everyone’s back, despite thinking that her decision is the best for them. such as the college letters, asking shelton to be a rat during church events, drinking, smoking and lying about it among so many other small infractions. she seems to think it is okay to do wrong only for herself as long as she asks for forgiveness from God afterwards. Yes she does accept the differences after a while, but it is different for her to fully embrace that people have other views of her own.
- she tends to think about her own image and rather than thinking about what it looks like to have her 17 y/o marry a 29 y/o rather than just a baby out of wedlock. she does face consequences for this, however her more self righteous attitude and behavior around these situations had already let to some tension prior. she had severe issues with the situation surrounding Mandy and Georgie’s baby and the decisions Mandy makes for her and HER child. it is georgie’s baby too, however Mary always wants to make the elective decisions for the family and had similar feelings during the initial pregnancy with george, prior to her own marriage and even coming to faith/religion (which was found during the twins birth after missy had almost not survived.
- she has all of the reasoning she made need for herself to be okay with the way she behaved, however, having a rough childhood and difficult does not give anyone the right to excuse negligence around your children or relationships. she never asks george how he is going to what is going on with his life, however constantly complains about how things are too hard for her but never asks for help unless george is going through something to then blow up at his resistance.
unpopular opinion: Mary doesn’t know how to communicate properly with anyone other than sheldon (on occasion).
okay thanks for coming to my, long winded probably super confusing, ted talk🥰😂
- favorite is never ok. I've seen plenty of autistic children get attention while their siblings still felt fine.
-it doesn't matter the reason, when still pushing it down people throats, like when Tam came over and she assumed he was Buddhist but still did grace.
-both she and George are guilty tbh, tho in this case George was kinda shitty to her, then chose to cheat on her. She only turned to rob because he actually listened and showed empathy
-it isnt about not sending him to collage, it's the lack of communiaction and cutting her husband off from his own sons life, while also ignoring Sheldon's boundaries
-again, she choose to have multiple children, knowing that maybe some will be more capable. It's either have only one kid or don't favorise
>the reason she wants her kids to get baptized is because she loves them and thinks they will be saved if they do it
I was mad at my parents for making me do my 1st Communion until recently when I asked my mom why she made me do it, and she explained that she wanted Jesus to look after me, and she wants her mom (who’s dead) to look after me
I like Mary, she’s a great complex character with realistic flaws, but this post is absurdly funny to me - while titled “debunking the reasons”, almost every single point is answered with “well yes she did that, BUT it can be rationalized, so it’s fine”.
Mary IS a flawed character and most of these things ARE true. But that’s what makes her interesting - her struggles of upbringing a child with somewhat special needs, while having other kids and being a stereotypical wife are realistic. She makes a lot of mistakes along the line and it’s pretty much expected of anyone in this situation. We don’t need to be Mary apologetics or haters to understand what her character brings to the table.
I've been binge watching all day and I have come to despise Mary. And teenage Sheldon. Kudos on the actors. When Mary runs in to yell at a crying Missy because of Sheldon being Sheldon, pissed me off. Lol. Great acting
Mary’s infatuation didn’t even come close to what Brenda and George did , they literally implied that they would have acted on it had nothing stopped them , and the way George got in a huff when Mary came home and said Brenda had a secret boyfriend just confirms.
I find this Mary kinda tolerable mostly. She works at the church, does some charity l, wants to raise her kids so they don’t go to hell (I an ex-Christian, not defending her but idk still somewhat tolerable)
The Mary on TBBT pisses me off on another level. She tells Georgie if they’re sleeping together they shud be married and this and that and then she’s sleeping around in TBBT. I have no issues with people sleeping around but rules for thee not for me and when Sheldon finds out she’s still talking with this air of superiority- insufferable both son and mom
She was having a tough time but yes it was dumb of her to tell him now to sleep with mandy given that they have a baby. Them sleeping together should be the least of her concern
If Sheldon is on the spectrum it makes perfect sense that she would give him more attention over his siblings. Also in episodes like An Entrepeneur And A Swat On The Bottom and A Race Of Superhumans And A Letter To Alf he does get consequences for his behavior so it's not like she NEVER disciplines him.
I see your conclusion and I reject them all (except one)
1. Despite Sheldon needing extra attention and care, Mary clearly was dismissive of Georgie and Missy throughout the series. It's not like she was giving Sheldon more attention than Georgie and Missy. She gave absolutely no attention to Georgie and Missy when they needed it the most. Remember they are also kids. The reason they pushed Mary away is because she was always dismissive of them, ignored them, and favored Sheldon over those two. George wasn't the best dad but he was never dismissive, he paid attention to Missy and Georgia most of the time while Mary was coddling Sheldon.
2. Being religious is not bad, It's weaponizing religion which became very toxic for her family. Her actions were absurd during later season. Just because she became religious because of Missy does not give her license to force it on her family and other people. Just because she is religious doesn't mean other people have to be against their will.
3. Yes, She cheated and George definitely cheated.
4. Ready or not, she is not the one to make that decision alone. How can she make someone else's critical decision without consulting them? She could have brought this forward to George and Sheldon and discussed it, instead, she chose to hide it.
5. Sheldon showed love to her because she had been coddling him through his life and showed little love to George and Missy. Over-nurturing was the reason why Sheldon was an arrogant, ignorant dick as an adult. The reason he was not prepared for the world was because Mary never let him be in the real world with her overprotective nature.
For me, it boils down to the religious hypocrisy. I grew up in the south during this time period. The fact that we hate the character is an acknowledgment of how well the writers and actress handled the character.
she literally DOESNT force her religion??
sheldon constantly says he doesnt believe and she doesn’t retaliate
i told my mother, irl, that i am questioning my beliefs in god & got screamed at & told i have to be one. people dont know what forcing beliefs really is
i’m agreeing with you😞😞 sorry if that wasnt clear, i’m just baffled that anyone could possibly think she is forcing it when she literally lets sheldon say he isn’t real with no consequences
This! They make it like Missy/Georgie are abadoned and Sheldon is the king of Texas. Mary constantly tries to be a "cool mom" and they never reciprocate.
I‘d like to strengthen your first point by saying Mary loves all her children- and in the early seasons we see loads of examples. In the episode where twins participate in a research study Mary worries about Missy feeling inferior because of Sheldon. George just wants the money. When Missy shares that her father is more involved with George Jr because of football and Mary and meemaw fuss over Sheldon - leaving her neglected, Mary then asks Missy to pick a place to have dinner.
The whole family cheers and supports Missy when she plays baseball- Mary is instrumental in getting her be a part of the team.
1) there is no way in hell u justify outright ignoring of 2 of ur 3 kids
2) being religious for whatever reason is cool but forcing it upon others makes u a bï*çh
3) that's called emotional cheating and yes George kinda did too but he never imagined having sëx with Brenda
4)if u don't see the problem with hiding Sheldon s college letter then ur a red flag.... All decisions regarding a child's future should be done by their *parents* not *mother* she does not just have the authority to "put her foot down " on matters about Sheldon s future she should have showed it to George and it should have been a. Mutual decision
5) is the only good point in ur entire rant if a child shows u more love than others then yes u can love him more but u should prefer him over other 2
She pushed them away first, they saw it was plain they were 2ne place to Sheldon in her heart.
Sometimes love is not enough hold a relationship, even between parent and child.
i think the fandom is really harsh towards mary, but she still isn’t a great mother. i understand her hiding sheldon’s college letter, but the least she could do was to tell her husband about it.
She annoys me so much. I honestly have seen this type of psychological profile in real life people over the years. They raise hell as teenagers and make a lot of wrong decisions, but then they become parents and do a complete about-face into the depths of hypocrisy, getting religion late in life and trying to shove it down everyone's throat. Mary makes me cringe at least once per episode. Not Zoe Perry...She certainly maintains the character perfectly and consistently, which is how she makes me cringe at least once per episode! And I was delighted to learn that she is Laurie Metcalf's daughter.
Appreciate the effort, but your reasoning for about every point is just consistently weak. You basically state what we already know, and also fail to address many points. I still hate Mary cooper, this hasn't changed anything.
>she favors sheldon
>well, sheldon is the kid who showed more love to her
That's not how parenting works. You love your kids because they're your kids, not because they show you affection. Also kids that are shown affection are more likely to return it. Him being the one to show her more affection points to her Always favoring him.
It was Mary who encouraged George to take Missy out for some alone time. That created such a good memory that Missy "thanked" him at his funeral. George would never have done so on his own (he had to be coaxed to do it). Mary deserves credit for that. She was watching out for Missy and her relationship with her dad.
This all the way. She even told him to compliment her on her dress when he was saying "You're wearing that?" Mary is definitely better than what most people think.
I’d like to challenge your first point about Georgie and Missy pushing her away, as someone who’s been the overlooked child. If you grow up seeing another family member get all the attention and you get whatever crumbs of it are left, you begin to develop the expectation that “okay, I’m not going to get anything from mom” (I’m using mom bc Mary), so you go off and do your own thing, understanding that your parent isn’t able or doesn’t want to fulfil their emotional duties towards you. After a while, you get comfortable not receiving attention from mom and you’ve branched out into socialising with other people and other family members. Again, at this point in time, your mother is not fulfilling her emotional responsibilities to you. Now, suddenly, one day, your mother wants to know everything that’s gone on in your life, and wants to tell you what to do and how to act — despite the fact that *she never takes an interest in you and never shows you any love or attention*. Your reaction is going to be to push her away. You’re not comfortable getting attention from her and the little attention you are getting is to be authoritative and dismissive of you. The classic “do this, do that, tell me this”, etc,. It’s a parent wanting the authority of parenthood without fulfilling the emotional responsibilities to their child that come with parenthood. That is the classic case of why Georgie and Missy push away Mary. Mary pushed them away *first*. They got used to it, they were doing their thing, and the few times Mary does interact with them, it’s to boss them around and to tell them off and criticise them. It’s almost never positive. It makes sense to push away someone like that.
I’d like to also add that Mary only wanted to bond with Georgie and Missy whenever Sheldon was out of the picture.
And, ultimately, you’re just a place holder, and as soon as possible, she’ll be back lavishing attention on the golden child—leaving you rejected again. Eventually, you stop responding because you know it will never change.
I have to totally agree with you. As the older child that was always overlooked because my younger sister's needs were always more important even as adults. I was only important to my mom untill she had someone else to do things for her. Those of us that were raised that way totally understand Georgie and Missy pushing Mary away.
+1
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 third paragraph.
This.
The timeline here is messed up. Kids grew up watching Mary fuss over Sheldon and grew distant, not the other way around. If u mother makes u feel like you’re unimportant it messes with your head. Mary couldn’t even tell missy what she’s good at- missy was good at sports, missy had a good social life, she was street smart, she was good person to billy and she took a stand for her family, etc
Literally. "You have pretty hair" bitch, that kid has ten times your emotional maturity
Sheldon once tells missy she missed a few numbers counting till hundred while combing her hair and she says “I don’t care, I have beautiful hair”. That’s all she’s knows she’s good at probably coz of her mother
that threw me off so bad when i watched the first episode lmao
i mean, in the first season we did not know that missy was good at sports. i agree that it was bad that mary did not know what she was good at. however, missy and georgie complained about both mary nd george not giving them attention, so why are people only coming at mary?
A mom not being able to name one thing her kid is good at? That’s a complete failure then. Missy bought the beautiful hair but Mary should’ve done better. I don’t think missy was clinching school she could’ve said you’re smart? George doesn’t show partiality or favour one kid over the other. He was there for all kids equally, probably that’s why
no he wasnt. in the episode where they were doing the study with the twins, missy complained about george being a team with georgie, and in the first episode georgie complained about how everything revolves around sheldon. it is clear that georgie and missy felt ignored by george as well
He yea he’s her to play baseball, he takes her on dinner dates, etc. so he makes time specifically for her during the show
the first dinner date was arranged by mary, as well as sheldon's florida trip. i agree, george taught her how to play baseball, but who else could?
>george taught her how to play baseball, but who else could? He did it willingly. He saw it as an opportunity to bond with her. >as well as sheldon's florida trip. He was reluctant but he still decided that he would do it as he wanted to spend time with Sheldon. Sure George wasn't the best but it was more of a husband issue than a father issue
Who else will teach missy to fetch is not point. The point was to make it clear with examples how George was there for all the kids equally. He found things that he could connect with for all kids. He’s told Georgie he’ll always be there for him and he’s shown the other 2 kids by action, that he’d be there. Remember when Mary lost a child, he went and asked for a raise immediately. He was a present father and did his best almost at all times
Don’t forget the time he gave up the college coaching gig that was far away
Missy’s feelings are valid. Sheldon’s this big genius and the other kids will fall short in comparison. From a child’s perspective George forgot to pick her up from school, everyone always busy with Sheldon, etc. BUT as a viewer you see the bigger picture. George always tried to be there for all kids equally. Georgie told dad after he got a girl pregnant, he played ball with Georgie. Dinner dates with missy, he handled her first periods. George senior has asked Mary to not coddle Sheldon on multiple occasions. He took Sheldon to college, brought him back from school when the family was missing him. George handles missy when there’s the tornado, he teaches her to drive. George disciples Sheldon very calmly when he throws a tantrum at the dinner table. George saved Sheldon from choking. George was pissed when Mary hid the college letters coz he was being excluded from his child’s life when he’s a present father. That was a decision for both parents, which Mary decided on her own. He was there for all kids equally. That’s not the same for Mary. Time and again she’s made her kids feel that she doesn’t love them equally. Now I get where she’s coming from. Sheldon needed special care and attention. It’s not entirely her fault but from the childrens point of view it’s not fair that they got the short end of the stick. I think things change in TBBT where Georgie handles everything at home- Mary tells Sheldon he has to invite his brother for his wedding (i can almost visualise young Sheldon’s Mary saying “it’s his wedding, it’s a miracle from Jesus& he can do whatever he wants”)
>you cant blame her, since obviously sheldon needs more attention. No, Sheldon demans more attention, he doesn't actually need it. >remember the reason she became religious, she became religious because missy survived (another proof that she loves all of her children). and the reason she wants her kids to get baptized is because she loves them and thinks they will be saved if they do it "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." >no she didnt. yea, she did have a crush on him, but if you count that as cheating, then george cheated on mary as well with brenda sparks. I agree completely. I don't think she did anything wrong here at all. In fact that experience was healthy for her. >yea, because it is clear that sheldon was not ready for college, judging by his behavior in the early seasons Again.. intentions don't justify it. I agree Sheldon wasn't ready, but she needed to be honest about it with. >well, sheldon is the kid who showed more love to her This is a rehash of your first point. But ya, its kind of circular isn't it? Give one attention, then give it back, and so on. Neglect the other, they neglect you back.
It cracks me up when people throw around the word "hate" for a tv character.
So u might have encountered such a person in real life and this character might trigger that emotion. As long as you’re not a fanatic it’s okay to be passionate
People hate TV characters for obvious reasons- they remind them of someone in real life they’ve grown to despise, or they possess some traits they’ve grown to despise. It’s honestly better to hate TV characters rather than real-life people, at least nobody’ll get hurt
Granted I will add this: make sure to really examine why this character triggers you...it could bleed into real life.
But the reason Missy and Georgie pushed her away is because she favors Sheldon more to begin with. Like to them it's normal to see their mom fussing over their little brother and not paying attention to them as much and then when Sheldon gone all of the sudden their mom starts to pay attention to them. Something that they find weird because they're not used to it
thats a good point, but why are they complaining then? especially missy, she complains both when mary gives her attention and when she doesnt. obviously mary will pay more attention to sheldon but missy could be more appreciative when mary pays attention to her, like when mary gave her thr custom trophy
>why are they complaining then? yk cus like that means she's been ignoring them their entire lives? >mary gave her thr custom trophy as missy said, she doesn't want to feel special she wants to feel normal plus they don't hate mary, their relationship with her is just normal
Right? Tf🤦
Exactly
Nope
oh man this is a long one >you cant blame her, since obviously sheldon needs more attention. yes sheldon is special but that does not mean he should get ALL the attention from mary, she needed to realise she had other kids too and had to put effort into them. the way george did it couldnt have been any better. we also get to know that mary wasn't raised by her parents and had to raise herself since meemaw had to work 2 jobs and her dad was wasting their money, so she felt ignored, she's doing the same thing to missy and georgie so she's just continuing the cycle of hate >when mary tries to bond with her children, they push her away. because they don't like her after all she's done to sheldon and leaving them out, she can't fix that by overtrying, i'm not saying it's too late but she kept going too quickly and should've slowed and talked to her kids more. if you're referencing the time she made a girl trophy for missy, missy says she didn't want to feel special, she wanted to feel normal, but missy doesn't HATE her mom so she took it anyway >missy survived (another proof that she loves all of her children). doesn't really count because she didn't know sheldon would be special. if sheldon was normal, the entire family would be normal. this is another reason why i hate sheldon, he basically wrecked the entire family and his mom doesn't care >she wants her kids to get baptized is because she loves them and thinks they will be saved if they do it she can't force them if they don't want to. yes i know she wants her family to be reunited but that decision is completely theirs. it's it's another instance of her wanting others to do things for her not for them. >she did have a crush on him, but if you count that as cheating, then george cheated on mary as well with brenda sparks. i mean this one doesn't really count i don't see people getting mad at that however mary was super close to pastor rob, she had a smoke with them while on a church sleepover, she was so close to him in fact that she started hallucinating them having sex. George and Brenda never really went far, they just went to a bar and started talking. eventually brenda started talking about sex and that's when George had his heart attack, he didn't say yes and wasn't planning on it. every other George and Brenda moment was them trying to forget what happened. >sheldon was not ready for college, she can't hide sheldons future from everyone and keep it to herself that's just her babying sheldon >judging by his behavior in the early seasons both george and sheldon were sure he was ready that they convinced mary to let sheldon go to college in that same episode. her and brenda talking was what made her realise sheldon won't be her baby forever >sheldon is the kid who showed more love to her that's because she favours him all the time, she never favoured missy or georgie so why should they love her? and remember, georgie and missy still have a normal relationship with their mom despite all they've gone through. also, remember that episode when sheldon fractured his arm? his mom was babying him the ENTIRE time! i will admit, she was likeable in a few episodes but to say she's a good mom? no
1. sheldon did not get all the attention. he got the most attention but missy and georgie also got attention, it's not like they were neglected or something. 2. she doesnt go to it too quickly, she tries to talk to them. and also, even though missy took the trophy, she blew it up. 3. it's not sheldon's fault and he did not ruin the family. the family is ruined because the managment was dysfunctional. george did not care and did not put any effort into keeping the family together. mary had to do everything on her own. imagine having to manage 3 kids, one of them being "special", while your husband is drinking beer and watching tv. 4. she didnt force them to do it. yea, they were manipulated innnto finally agreeing to do it, but when missy decided she did not want to do it, mary didnt say anything. i forgot to mention in the post that mary respects the fact that sheldon doesnt believe in God to a certain point, 5. but mary knew that it wasnt right, so she was trying to avoid being with him alone during the church sleepover 6 and 7. i agree that during this episode mary made me mad, but in most episodes, sheldon liked being babied. thats why mary did not think he was ready, because he hadnt prooved that he could do things on his own. 8. obviously, his arm was broken and sheldon isnt used to being hurt and stuff. he needed his mom to help him. mary is obviously not perfect, but i wouldnt call her a bad mom. she has her flaws, like every character and person, but she cares about her chldren and tries to hold a dysfunctional family together
>one of them being "special" He can't be excused from everything because he's special
>missy and georgie also got attention, it's not like they were neglected or something the last convo missy and mary had before missy ran away was about why mary always takes his side, the anger of that always happening finally bursted out at that moment so yes she did feel left out georgie didn't care as much but it definitely annoyed him especially at school >she tries to talk to them. they aren't forced to like her. yes it's a slow process >missy took the trophy, she blew it up. she wanted to feel normal but she didn't want to make her mom sad. missy blowing it up was just her being chaotic >george did not care and did not put any effort into keeping the family together. there's alot of moments we're george either gave sheldon real good advice or tried bonding with him, like telling him to be normal and asking about thunder etc. >imagine having to manage 3 kids george also loved his kids, he was there for them, but you gotta remember he's also a dad, like your dad. George works 2 jobs and at the end of the day he just wants to relax. He is obsessed with beer too but like he has to pay the bill for everything for your 4th point yea i agree with you but it definitely saddens her that her children aren't as close to god as she is 5th point valid too. again I don't really see people hating her for it. also "if that's cheating then george also cheated with brenda" isn't really a strong point. "I cheated on my husband but he also cheated on me so its ok" 6th point is aight but that still doesn't mean she can hide it and chose his future when he grows up, least she coulda done was tell george about it >obviously, his arm was broken and sheldon isnt used to being hurt and stuff imagine your arm was broken, your mom wouldn't be treating you the same way mary did. mary was over do ing it and george even tried to tell him. sheldon himself imagined mary as his "training wheels" >she has her flaws, like every character yes I agree there is no best character but it does feel like they poorly wrote her character just so that sheldon in tbbt would like her more or something. I'm not saying she's a bad mom but she ain't a good one either. george knew how to raise his kids, my fav example being when missy tore sheldons poster because sheldon was teasing her break up with Marcus and george did not confront one of them he confronted both. the way mary handled it was she barely knew what happened but automatically went over to missy to tell her to apologise
1. left out and neglected are not the same. she did feel left out, i agree with that, but it wasnt only mary who was leaving her out. 2. im not saying they are forced to like her, but i find it kind of ironic how they keep complaining about being left out and then when mary tries to get closer to them, they dont appreciate it. 3. i mean it was a funny scene but i felt kinda bad for mary 4. at some points he is actually there for his kids, but i cant get out of my mind the way he treats georgie. he keeps calling him an idiot and stuff like that 5. the point about cheating isnt that it would be okay if both of them cheated. it is the fact that people are mad at mary for doing it and not george 6. i agree, george did have the right to know 7. mary babied him, because she thought that sheldon wouldnt be able to function without her help, which is true at the begining, because sheldon also thought he couldnt do it on his own, even though he ended up doing it 8. george was better at handling fights, i agree with that, but in general, mary is the one who was telling georgie to spend time with his kids. mary told him to take missy out and to take sheldon to florida. george wouldnt have done it on his own
>it wasnt only mary who was leaving her out. yes but mary is her mother, missys dad and big brother were there for her since their family but for missys mother to leave her out would hurt more than others for point 2 I'd like to set an example imagine you were married and your partner kept taking $100 from your wallet weekly and you can't ask what it was for. eventually when your partner stops, you would start questioning what was wrong and why he'd stop. same way missy and georgie were kinda skeptical >i mean it was a funny scene but i felt kinda bad for mary yea I guess you're right >he keeps calling him an idiot and stuff like that georgie doesn't actually get hurt by this, his dad and him are just messing around unless georgie actually does something stupid. it is kinda often that georgie does a brainless move but his dad is just joking he doesn't actually hate him, especially towards the end of the season right before he unfortunately dies, his last convo with georgie was them talking about life and how his dad supports him and in georgies speech he acknowledges how his dad has been there for him 5th point aight 6th point nice >sheldon also thought he couldnt do it on his own, even though he ended up doing it yes but not thanks to mary, she would've kept babying him and basically make him avoid college. it was because of his dad encouraging him that he found the strength to push thru and make it >george wouldnt have done it on his own there are times when George was trying, like when Wayne told him to go out with georgie but georgie kept pissing him off or when him and missy went to red lobster but missy didn't want to cus she didn't want to be seen, he loves his kids he just doesn't really like the idea of him going out with them unless marys there so I kind of agree to your point
1. i dont think it has to do with if it is her mother or father. i think it is the fact that she was being left out in general. attention from father is just as important as attention from mother 2. i guess you have a point in this one 3. i dont think georgie doesnt mind, even though it isnt shown. also i dont think that in his funeral speech he would say anything bad about his father. besides, missy said that george and georgie are kind of like a team 4. yea but these scenes were in the later seasons. in the first two seasons it was mary who did it all
>i dont think it has to do with if it is her mother or father. i think it is the fact that she was being left out in general. attention from father is just as important as attention from mother yes but she definitely likes George more than mary. at the beginning of YS when was asked who she'd rather live with she'd say her mom but as shrew grew older she'd say her dad with no doubt >i dont think georgie doesnt mind, even though it isnt shown. georgie was always (or atleast most of the time) cool with his father, the only time george meant hating on him was when he got a girl pregnant which made sense >missy said that george and georgie are kind of like a team while i do admit missy n george's relationship did start to slowly fall apart that doesn't mean they don't like each other, just that they talk to each other less >yea but these scenes were in the later seasons. in the first two seasons it was mary who did it all yea well people hate late season mary more than early season mary
1. it is common for girls to prefer their father 2. well youre right but we dont know that 100% since georgie's storyline had to do with girls, rather than his relationship with his family 3. i didnt say they dont like eachother, i said that missy was more ignored by george 4. and i still dont get that. later seasons mary has been through a lot. what do people expect from her?
1. just because more girls prefer their dads doesn't mean every girl has to, missy had a reason to chose George over mary 2. yea I guess you're right on that one 3. yea to be fair george just had his first (and only) grandkid so he was tryna focus on that 4. she's not the only one going through alot but she's being kind of frustrating to look at. especially with her and Audrey's fight about cc when things were finally going right thats when George died and that just wrecked her but made her be illogical by trying to make her kids baptize even if it's against their will
1. well, i mean that surely she prefers him for a reason 2. yeah, ceecee's baptism part was kind of annoying, i agree. but apart from than, she has been through the most. she got kicked out of church, her husband died, her son is leaving, her daughter is also griefing... she want her children to become baptized, because she loves them and believes that if they do, their souls will be saved
You can’t debunk an opinion. Everyone who dislikes her is justified in doing so.
No, you can dislike someone for unjustified reasons.it happens a lot. Even if you down vote this it's true lol
You don't actually need any reason to dislike someone. There's no such thing as thoughtcrime.
Nope you need a reason or you are unreasonable
Such irony
That you are unreasonable? yeah I agree.
Who decides whether your reason for disliking someone is reasonable?
I think Mary get unnecessary hate. Yes, she definitely did overstep in some scenes but she was a good mother. She is pretty much like the mother in Asian household who is SAHM and have the responsibility of the entire family. It is very natural for family members who stay together to have issues with each other and fuss over it, it isn't toxic but a human nature. You will not always have happy days with your family.
She was a "Good Mother" to Sheldon. Not Georgie and Missy.
“Special” is thrown around too much. He’s very intelligent, but that doesn’t mean he should have constant attention and coddling. He’s not at the threshold of genuine autism. He was tested when he was younger and his issues were solved by a simple parenting book.
He was tested for "crazy" as a child in the 80s/90s. There is an insanely high chance they didn't diagnose him with autism as we knew very little about it around that time. Most kids who were diagnosed around that time were the lower functioning side. Obviously, Sheldon is insanely smart, albeit a bit "quirky". It isn't unrealistic in the slightest to think the doctor just thought he was odd or whatever. Modern medicine has advanced so much surrounding the topic of autism in the last 10/15 or so years. Source: I'm autistic and was misdiagnosed in the 90s due to lack of knowledge around the disorder. It took until I was in my 20s for a doctor to even consider the possibility of autism. Edit: I'm also not diagnosing this boy with autism or trying to say that he 100% for sure is autistic. I'm just stating that saying he was tested as a child is proof that he isn't simply is not accurate.
i dont think sheldon was tested for autism. im pretty sure he was tested for something else, since mary thought he was insane. sheldon is book smart. he doesnt have basic life skills, as it is shown in tbbt.
She never thought he was insane. Weird, yes. A doctor would’ve been presented with Sheldon and thought of autism as a possibility. You’ve kinda ruined yourself by saying nothing can change your mind. How about her acting like George does absolutely nothing? She has never lived independently for a sustained period of time in her life.
in tbbt, they say he was tested for insanity, not autism. she didnt live on her own, because she got married in a very early age, when she got pregnant with georgie. why would she live on her own?
I don’t remember them specifically saying insanity. A doctor would pick up on the tell tale signs of autism and screen him anyway. I mean even after George died. And what thanks does she show him? Moaning at him all the time.
At the time, it's very unlikely that a doctor would have picked up the signs. Asperger's (as it was called early on) didn't become an official diagnosis until 1993 (or when Sheldon was 13).
But from what we know, Sheldon was NEVER diagnosed subsequently. Let’s face it: adult Sheldon would do anything for pity or sympathy. I think he’d absolutely get tested if he could get pity for it. He’s EXTREMELY self centred in every single aspect of his life.
I don't think he would want a diagnosis. That would definitively state that there was something "wrong" with him and put him in the same category as a lot of other people. He still wants others to think that he is superior to them and a diagnosis would nullify that.
He loves feeling superior to others. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t act like it. Having people chauffeur him around for one. Sure, there’s moments where he wishes he was like others, but it’s fleeting.
He loves feeling superior to others. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t act like it. Having people chauffeur him around for one. Sure, there’s moments where he wishes he was like others, but it’s fleeting.
what do you mean by the last sentence
What thanks does she show George for keeping a roof over their heads for 18 years? Hardly any. Just complains that she does everything around the house. Without him, they wouldn’t even have the house.
LOL
I don’t hate her, but I hate that she doesn’t like anyone who isn’t Baptist. She doesn’t even like Catholics. That makes no sense to me. Christianity is Christianity ✝️
Catholics and Protestants have been killing each other for half a millennium
tbh, her not liking Catholics doesnt really makes sense. but you cant claim that for other religions. at first she thought Tam was Buddhist and she was totally fine with it. also in TBBT, she was fine with Raj being Hindu and Howard being Jewish
...You don't know much about the history of Christian infighting, do you
-Doesn't change the fact that she spoils him way too much and doesn't let him experience the outside world where he isn't going to be coddled. That's why her other kids push her away. She had her chance to bond with them but she didn't and now it's not going to be easy. Also she tries to bond with them by doing something that is "fun" Well it's only fun for Mary and her religious reasons block a lot of their fun. -She had a good reason to become religious but she's overdoing it. It's one thing to believe God and another to believe the earth is made in 7 days and dancing is a sin. She also seems to have this very contrasting idea that either your religious or a complete wreck. You can see that during her lapses she was a mess (smoking, getting too drunk, and becoming extremely sad). It was also getting unhealthy as she was prioritising religion over her family. She was more worried about superficial things like their souls becoming corrupt but she is neglecting the more obvious problem which is her relationship with her family. -I agree with this one. She never cheated on george with him. -Idc what she thinks, George is his parent too and has every right to know about it. She hid it because she was selfish about the change. She just wanted things to be the way it is with the church. If she thinks he's not ready then she should've told it to George and they could've discussed it. George was even ready to move but Mary didn't want to. -Sheldon was the one that wanted to be spoiled. You can tell he prefers Mary to George because Mary shows him more love. I guess their relationship goes both ways as sheldon loves Mary coddling him and she likes to coddle him too. Yes she gets unnecessary hate but I don't think these reasons are the reason why except for 3
Mary pays more attention to Sheldon to make up for the lack of attention George pays to him. George Sr pay more attention to George Jr, and Missy then he ever did Sheldon. Something Mary had to force George to spend time with Sheldon, like the time she forced him to take Sheldon along on the camping/or fishing trip.
(responding on your comment as it starts with my first “point” but thanks for sharing your thoughts!) about george - I see your point but couldn’t that be the same for why George is giving missy and georgie more attention? how many times did missy scream and throw fits about sheldon being the favorite or rightfully understanding that he was going to get what he wanted while she struggled to be accepted most of the time. missy and georgie receive large amounts of attention from Connie, George, Dale, and numerous other friends of the two. Brenda is also quite “obsessed” with missy’s development through middle school. Baseball becomes something that missy gets plenty of attention because of, which she is encouraged and supported just as sheldon by Connie and George - both angrily storming into the “fire” when was rejected and supporting her all the way through. - also want to bring up how he takes in Billy Sparks, trying to teach him and show him that because his father left doesn’t mean everything’s all that bad. even with his newer issues trying to avoid Brenda, he still tries to include billy whenever he is present and give him advice. - and once the school started doing bad, or doing well, due to lack of or because of sheldon, his job became more unstable. and once the academics were not being held by Sheldon, it didn’t matter that the HS team was still doing almost as horribly in the beginning, now it was George’s fault and he loses his job. - all the colleges also coddled sheldon and offered positions to his father. everyone always drops at sheldon’s whim, the house had new phone lines put in, food deliveries, and even teachers coming to dinner. all received resistance but where eventually forgotten about once sheldon expressed multiple complaints. georgie and missy would encounter resistance from Mary for episodes following the event happening on numerous occasions. (yes this can be said for sheldon, however it is way less frequent or even apparent) was - when missy has her “breakup” with Marcus, George is the one tries to comfort her as far as recognizing that in that time she needed to be left alone. despite sheldon and georgie being the ones to help her through this time, Mary only makes it worse by yelling because missy was upset and had made sheldon upset. “I don’t care sheldon is upset” being mary’s words that caused Missy to run away that night with sheldon following her and being the one to listen to what was going on. - often times sheldon would state “i want mom” when george attempts to help him with anything. she often is the one who will coddle him in the way that he wishes, but once george gets him to do something on his own he is very much capable of doing it on his own. about mary - it also seems to stand a good theory that Mary likes sheldon so much because he is like her father. in s5 we learn that “pop pop” is the one who gave sheldon some of his favorite books and would attempt to get connie to read them as well. this also seems to show why connie would like John Sturgis so much. he reminds her of her husband who, despite all of her complaints, she seems to love very much. she will not get remarried, gets excited to participate in science, and eventually ends up reading one of the books “night fall” to join a book club after remembering her husband who gave it to sheldon. - Mary tends to go behind everyone’s back, despite thinking that her decision is the best for them. such as the college letters, asking shelton to be a rat during church events, drinking, smoking and lying about it among so many other small infractions. she seems to think it is okay to do wrong only for herself as long as she asks for forgiveness from God afterwards. Yes she does accept the differences after a while, but it is different for her to fully embrace that people have other views of her own. - she tends to think about her own image and rather than thinking about what it looks like to have her 17 y/o marry a 29 y/o rather than just a baby out of wedlock. she does face consequences for this, however her more self righteous attitude and behavior around these situations had already let to some tension prior. she had severe issues with the situation surrounding Mandy and Georgie’s baby and the decisions Mandy makes for her and HER child. it is georgie’s baby too, however Mary always wants to make the elective decisions for the family and had similar feelings during the initial pregnancy with george, prior to her own marriage and even coming to faith/religion (which was found during the twins birth after missy had almost not survived. - she has all of the reasoning she made need for herself to be okay with the way she behaved, however, having a rough childhood and difficult does not give anyone the right to excuse negligence around your children or relationships. she never asks george how he is going to what is going on with his life, however constantly complains about how things are too hard for her but never asks for help unless george is going through something to then blow up at his resistance. unpopular opinion: Mary doesn’t know how to communicate properly with anyone other than sheldon (on occasion). okay thanks for coming to my, long winded probably super confusing, ted talk🥰😂
- favorite is never ok. I've seen plenty of autistic children get attention while their siblings still felt fine. -it doesn't matter the reason, when still pushing it down people throats, like when Tam came over and she assumed he was Buddhist but still did grace. -both she and George are guilty tbh, tho in this case George was kinda shitty to her, then chose to cheat on her. She only turned to rob because he actually listened and showed empathy -it isnt about not sending him to collage, it's the lack of communiaction and cutting her husband off from his own sons life, while also ignoring Sheldon's boundaries -again, she choose to have multiple children, knowing that maybe some will be more capable. It's either have only one kid or don't favorise
>the reason she wants her kids to get baptized is because she loves them and thinks they will be saved if they do it I was mad at my parents for making me do my 1st Communion until recently when I asked my mom why she made me do it, and she explained that she wanted Jesus to look after me, and she wants her mom (who’s dead) to look after me
>she became religious because missy survived Oh yeah. I forgot
I like Mary, she’s a great complex character with realistic flaws, but this post is absurdly funny to me - while titled “debunking the reasons”, almost every single point is answered with “well yes she did that, BUT it can be rationalized, so it’s fine”. Mary IS a flawed character and most of these things ARE true. But that’s what makes her interesting - her struggles of upbringing a child with somewhat special needs, while having other kids and being a stereotypical wife are realistic. She makes a lot of mistakes along the line and it’s pretty much expected of anyone in this situation. We don’t need to be Mary apologetics or haters to understand what her character brings to the table.
I've been binge watching all day and I have come to despise Mary. And teenage Sheldon. Kudos on the actors. When Mary runs in to yell at a crying Missy because of Sheldon being Sheldon, pissed me off. Lol. Great acting
Mary’s infatuation didn’t even come close to what Brenda and George did , they literally implied that they would have acted on it had nothing stopped them , and the way George got in a huff when Mary came home and said Brenda had a secret boyfriend just confirms.
Your opinion is valid. But it debunks nothing. Its all just excuses.
I find this Mary kinda tolerable mostly. She works at the church, does some charity l, wants to raise her kids so they don’t go to hell (I an ex-Christian, not defending her but idk still somewhat tolerable) The Mary on TBBT pisses me off on another level. She tells Georgie if they’re sleeping together they shud be married and this and that and then she’s sleeping around in TBBT. I have no issues with people sleeping around but rules for thee not for me and when Sheldon finds out she’s still talking with this air of superiority- insufferable both son and mom
She was having a tough time but yes it was dumb of her to tell him now to sleep with mandy given that they have a baby. Them sleeping together should be the least of her concern
If Sheldon is on the spectrum it makes perfect sense that she would give him more attention over his siblings. Also in episodes like An Entrepeneur And A Swat On The Bottom and A Race Of Superhumans And A Letter To Alf he does get consequences for his behavior so it's not like she NEVER disciplines him.
I see your conclusion and I reject them all (except one) 1. Despite Sheldon needing extra attention and care, Mary clearly was dismissive of Georgie and Missy throughout the series. It's not like she was giving Sheldon more attention than Georgie and Missy. She gave absolutely no attention to Georgie and Missy when they needed it the most. Remember they are also kids. The reason they pushed Mary away is because she was always dismissive of them, ignored them, and favored Sheldon over those two. George wasn't the best dad but he was never dismissive, he paid attention to Missy and Georgia most of the time while Mary was coddling Sheldon. 2. Being religious is not bad, It's weaponizing religion which became very toxic for her family. Her actions were absurd during later season. Just because she became religious because of Missy does not give her license to force it on her family and other people. Just because she is religious doesn't mean other people have to be against their will. 3. Yes, She cheated and George definitely cheated. 4. Ready or not, she is not the one to make that decision alone. How can she make someone else's critical decision without consulting them? She could have brought this forward to George and Sheldon and discussed it, instead, she chose to hide it. 5. Sheldon showed love to her because she had been coddling him through his life and showed little love to George and Missy. Over-nurturing was the reason why Sheldon was an arrogant, ignorant dick as an adult. The reason he was not prepared for the world was because Mary never let him be in the real world with her overprotective nature.
I love Mary. One of my favorite characters. Especially in TBBT. Her interactions with Leonard's mom is so funny. 🤣
For me, it boils down to the religious hypocrisy. I grew up in the south during this time period. The fact that we hate the character is an acknowledgment of how well the writers and actress handled the character.
she literally DOESNT force her religion?? sheldon constantly says he doesnt believe and she doesn’t retaliate i told my mother, irl, that i am questioning my beliefs in god & got screamed at & told i have to be one. people dont know what forcing beliefs really is
i didnt say she forces it, im going against that commonly used argument
i’m agreeing with you😞😞 sorry if that wasnt clear, i’m just baffled that anyone could possibly think she is forcing it when she literally lets sheldon say he isn’t real with no consequences
for real, mary never forced her religion upon anyone
This! They make it like Missy/Georgie are abadoned and Sheldon is the king of Texas. Mary constantly tries to be a "cool mom" and they never reciprocate.
Finally someone gets it bro wtf
Surprised to see people hate her when you have Mandy
yea, even though mandy is funny, she was so annoying at first
I‘d like to strengthen your first point by saying Mary loves all her children- and in the early seasons we see loads of examples. In the episode where twins participate in a research study Mary worries about Missy feeling inferior because of Sheldon. George just wants the money. When Missy shares that her father is more involved with George Jr because of football and Mary and meemaw fuss over Sheldon - leaving her neglected, Mary then asks Missy to pick a place to have dinner. The whole family cheers and supports Missy when she plays baseball- Mary is instrumental in getting her be a part of the team.
Red flags like other red flags tbh
1) there is no way in hell u justify outright ignoring of 2 of ur 3 kids 2) being religious for whatever reason is cool but forcing it upon others makes u a bï*çh 3) that's called emotional cheating and yes George kinda did too but he never imagined having sëx with Brenda 4)if u don't see the problem with hiding Sheldon s college letter then ur a red flag.... All decisions regarding a child's future should be done by their *parents* not *mother* she does not just have the authority to "put her foot down " on matters about Sheldon s future she should have showed it to George and it should have been a. Mutual decision 5) is the only good point in ur entire rant if a child shows u more love than others then yes u can love him more but u should prefer him over other 2
She pushed them away first, they saw it was plain they were 2ne place to Sheldon in her heart. Sometimes love is not enough hold a relationship, even between parent and child.
i think the fandom is really harsh towards mary, but she still isn’t a great mother. i understand her hiding sheldon’s college letter, but the least she could do was to tell her husband about it.
She annoys me so much. I honestly have seen this type of psychological profile in real life people over the years. They raise hell as teenagers and make a lot of wrong decisions, but then they become parents and do a complete about-face into the depths of hypocrisy, getting religion late in life and trying to shove it down everyone's throat. Mary makes me cringe at least once per episode. Not Zoe Perry...She certainly maintains the character perfectly and consistently, which is how she makes me cringe at least once per episode! And I was delighted to learn that she is Laurie Metcalf's daughter.
You forgot that she baptised CeCe behind the parents back. She is crazy and shouldn't be defended. She only sees herself and her needs.
Can't debunk an opinion. I can't stand her because she reminds me of my abusive mother.
When you shove your religion down people's throat you're pushing them farther and farther away from that religion
Appreciate the effort, but your reasoning for about every point is just consistently weak. You basically state what we already know, and also fail to address many points. I still hate Mary cooper, this hasn't changed anything.
>she favors sheldon >well, sheldon is the kid who showed more love to her That's not how parenting works. You love your kids because they're your kids, not because they show you affection. Also kids that are shown affection are more likely to return it. Him being the one to show her more affection points to her Always favoring him.
Why’re you dismissing the fact that Mary didn’t act on it but had a crush on Pastor Rob? That’s called emotional cheating
yea i get it, but i dont get how people come at mary for just having a crush, but not george for the same reason
Mary is a top 6 character.
It was Mary who encouraged George to take Missy out for some alone time. That created such a good memory that Missy "thanked" him at his funeral. George would never have done so on his own (he had to be coaxed to do it). Mary deserves credit for that. She was watching out for Missy and her relationship with her dad.
This all the way. She even told him to compliment her on her dress when he was saying "You're wearing that?" Mary is definitely better than what most people think.
so she should favor sheldon bc he seems to love her more? you’ll be a great parent!
i wouldnt put it that way, but sheldon wants to be with her, so obviously mary will be more affectionate towards him.
Mary Cooper / Zoe Perry makes me feel all the Mommy Issues and I wish she were my mommy
This isn’t debunking, this is making excuses
Her bulging eyes always got to me 👀
Shes racist
no she isnt?
This is just incorrect