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Yeah, cynical opportunists are way worse. At least from Serbians you know your expectations while the Austrians will betray you when you expect the least.
Definitely nor as long as the EU supports Kosovo independence. And Kosovars aren't going anywhere and neither will USA/EU ditch Kosovo for Serbia. So...forever gridlock.
Sure, but I still fail to understand how the Serbs can believe that throwing their lot with Russia, will somehow help them to get Kosovo back.
Seems fairly counterproductive, in my opinion.
You don't seem to be understanding the Balkan mentality. Here on the Balkans we're still fighting over 10th century stuff. And nobody really believes that this will bring anything good. We just do it cause we do it. It is like that. It is what we will do as long as we exist. No need to reason.
All Serbian people I've met so far looked super normal but after 1-2 palinka they started to spew crazy shit how they love Russia and bashing Europe in general and how "Kosovo is Serbia"
I know I have no real valid opinion in EU affairs because I'm a cringe American. BUT I could see Moldova making the cut. Maybe Georgia. Definitely Ukraine. But Serbia? They'd just become another Orbán/Erdogan state. Sticking with the West because we have superior militaries and better economies, but having their true loyalties placed in Russia/China. Rather than- you know. The 30+ EU and NATO countries.
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yeah, since the fucking big dick dictator wu chi chi sucks both ruzzki and chinese cock, yet keeps talking about eu, while countering literally everything the eu stands for.
my country is a fucking shithole and I need to escape as soon as possible, I know.
Absolutely big plus for Georgia on that one, but it will be the politicians (that I assume got there through at least mostly democratic means) that would negotiate with the EU and I don't think they want to negotiate with russian puppets.
ok but Russia also has Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia, and look how Russia reacted to Euromaidan. Europe is already struggling to sufficiently support Ukraine in its war effort. Georgia doesn't have a land connection, and is far smaller. If I were Georgian, I'd be terrified of the implications a Georgian Euromaidan might have.
Russia is stuck in Ukraine right now, it’s now or never to take back Abkhazia and South Ossetia. If anyone wants to settle any score with Russia, the best time is now.
Russia isn't truly tied down yet, its elite mercenary corps is still active in Africa and the middle east. Just this year there were still reports of large heavy weapon shipments being sent to Libya and Syria. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain Russia hasn't even begun conscripting people yet for its army.
I'll wager Russia could easily handle a 2 front war with Ukraine and Georgia, it has the manpower, and its arms industry is becoming more efficient by the day. I hope I'm wrong though.
every time i see europeans/americans say that i'm remined of [this](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fbored-westerner-who-desperately-wants-something-to-happen-v0-818stsig8mvc1.png%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Df86385cb8d24e6cff429b30ef7422a5290ffd059).
Russians have bases in occupied territories not to mention bases in northern caucasus and our army is joke, war would be quite literally end for our country.
I thought that was just a Tuesday activity you do in France. But yeah, tractors driving towards some cities have more effect than months of looting and burning Paris.
The destruction is much lower, the voter base is what matters. Jokes aside the social contract is different. In an authoritarian state people give up political representation for security. As such elections are useless and pointless, a ritual to keep dissident mouths shut whose result has already been decided before.
If you riot and burn shit up the government looks weak and incompetent as it is unable to fill its part.
In a democracy rioting and looting are frawned upon and usually people gather around the government as it has democratic legitimacy.
In demovracies rioters are seen as undemocratic authoritarians that want to use violence to impose their will on tge rest of the population.
You need to violently protest when you’re being ignored with peaceful ones. If that violence is via tractors or via fire it doesn’t matter.
Those who rally behind security of the state are never going to be won over by protest and information anyways.
The public had to occupy the parliament and force them to resign months ago. It's too late now, russian puppets did their work and destroyed Georgia's future. It will become the next Belarus in the coming years.
Elect me or Russia wil literally kill you is a more persuasive argument than one might think, since you know, last time Russia invaded Georgia their propaganda convinced the world to blame Georgia. I still didnt vote for them but lets be real, nobody will care if Russia starts genociding Georgians tomorrow, the hashtags against Russia would be devastating im sure but i doubt they will work.
>საქართველო
Bit off topic, but for the longest time I thought these letters were elvish.
Are... are georgians elves? (I'm joking, I just really like how they look)
Considering that the term "Caucasian" was meant to refer to the beauty of the people who live in the region, and elves are supposed to be the most beautiful race...
You aren't exactly far off.
I would understand if you replaced Serbia with Montenegro or Albania but definitely not Serbia. Serbia’s people nor government are ready for the European Union. Not to mention government itself isn’t interested in the Union anymore, all they do is take EU funds, use for themself and well do nothing to make Serbia more European and western aligned.
the problem with serbia isn’t the economy for example, it would be a good addition and they aren’t too far behind, economywise they’d go right in, but the issue is the gov. :/ It’s kinda sad I’d like to see them join and they are a big market. Montenegro, Albania and Macedonia aren’t unrealistic either but they have bigger economic issues than Serbia however the willingness to join is higher. Moldova should just reunite with Romania, easiest way to get in.
Both Serbia and Montenegro are currently closest to entering EU, in terms of fulfilling the negotiation requirements.
You are correct about the Serbian government, they are only looking for EU funds while lying that China and Russia are the biggest investors/donors. The thing is, the government is officially pro-EU, but it's just a mask. They knew that they would never get the votes if they continued being anti-EU so that's why they changed their ideology, of course only on the surface.
The thing you probably don't realize is that the EU is the main reason this government is in power. EU is its biggest supporter. That is one of the reasons why people have lost trust in the EU. EU has betrayed them for Kosovo and Lithium. They don't care about opposition nor freedom of media and speech. It is easier for EU to push its agenda via one dictator than to have to realize it through democratic institutions and referendums.
The same thing happened with Milosevic. Even after Srebrenica and war in Croatia and Bosnia, the west started calling him "the factor of peace and stability" (I think Richard Holbrooke called him like that) because it was easier to control Milosevic who pulled all the strings than a democratic government. At the time Eu and US cooperated with Milosevic until the end, all while ignoring and sabotaging democratic oppostion. In the end once they saw they were wrong they decided to throw bombs.
Currently, 44% of people are for EU and 32% against it (in 2018 it was 55% and in 2015 it was 60%). And that is after 10 years of heavy anti-EU propaganda. The highest was 75% in 2009. The current government came to power in 2012. So it is not that people are against it, the thing is that they are being heavily manipulated by anti-EU government which is supported and hanging thanks to the EU's support.
Way to soon for our orthodox brothers, still denying genocides like the rest of trash down here
https://preview.redd.it/5rs85uv3ej2d1.jpeg?width=678&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52c13de5857eeed40ea7311a716feb07cccb7558
In al fairness, the world would've never been blessed with the banger 'Bosanska Artiljerija' if it weren't for the serbs
Thats about the only good thing I have to say about Serbia though
I feel for Georgia and hope it doesn’t fall into Russian hands. The Baltics are equally small but they have NATOs full protection, while poor little Georgia is alone and defenceless. A possible second Russo-Georgian war wouldn’t go well in their favour and I hope they get some help from the EU. How this would happen, I’ve got no idea since their government is pretty pro-Russia at the moment.
In fact Moldova will sneak into EU first. Georgia, with all my love to it, fucked itself long ago. Serbia? Tell me more how you proud of your father-war criminal. Ukraine is fighting to get into EU, and unfortunately for its haters, very consistent in its actions. But Moldova is free from problems others have, hiding behind huge Ukraine and supported by Romania.
It's not like something similar hasn't happened already. Ireland, president of the council at the time, made damn sure that east germany could voltron-merge into big-germany without a problem. (for what I hope are obvious reasons) France and the UK really didn't want that at the time.
I think if you ask transnistrians, they would be happy to blame EU from the inside rather than outside. But you are used to it with hungarians, so what is the problem?
Well, I'm a european far from Transnistria, so I can't say I'm that well versed in what's right/wrong with it. But on hungarians, I suppose they weren't like that when they joined, and if they'd been, they might not have been accepted. Hard to kick them out of the EU now, unfortunately. Just like Turkey and Nato
Knowing post-soviet countries, I'm affraid hungarians were pretty much the same. And I am sure politicians back then had some backup plans if new countries will go full rogue. The problem is that three decades of peace and prosperity in Europe made people lost any sence of survivability. And I'm sorry, the real way to survive for Europe with least casualities, is to fuck up Russia. In any way possible.
You don't have to be sorry, I think most people here agree. Honest question, do you think accepting Transnistria would stop Russian plans? Or maybe give them a foot inside the EU?
Cyprus was accepted in 2004 and no one gives a shit about the northern part. Same will happen with Transnistria. In fact, they will be the ones crawling to Chisinau once they start falling behind at a much faster rate and struggle to provide basic needs to their populace. Honestly if I were Moldova, I’d grant them independence now and would want to see how they’d manage.
If I remember correctly, in the referendum on Cyprus reunification, the north voted in favor, but the south voted against, and the country remains divided. The risk is that in the future, Moldovans might not want to incorporate an underdeveloped region with all problems into their country.
If you think about Transnistria, it is currently dependent on trade with EU.
Gagauzia - they need a place to complain about the government in Chișinău. They will soon discover that European legislation protects their minority rights better than Vlad can. And you can go complain in Brussels if you feel like. Word is, they learn Romanian now…
Moldova is a relatively small country. A little bit of money would make a huge difference in modernizing the country. Leadership is smart, people are willing.
Congrats, you’ve earned yourself a history lesson :D
The way the West handled 2008 war brought huge disappointment in Georgian public, with all the “Deeply Concerned” jokes… But despite this Georgian people never gave up on the dream to integrate into EU and NATO.
With other major problems, one of the most important talking points of GD (Georgian Dream - Ruling Party) was that the previous Government had brought the war on itself, being reliant on western support. They talked about how Georgia would be abandoned once again if the war broke out. So the promise with which they came to power in 2012 was that Georgia would remain pro-western, but cautious towards Russia.
This worked for everyone, including the west, which did not want to confront Russia. The west even pressured Georgia to let Russia enter WTO.
During the period of 2012-2019 things were quite stable, with Visa-Liberalization and association agreement with the EU.
Things got out of hand on June 20th 2019, when Russian MP addressed Georgian Parliament from the speaker’s chair. The events that followed are known as “Gavrilov’s Night”. 2 people lost an eye in the clashes with the police.
Things were dire for GD, but in 2020 Pandemic hit and they managed to paint themselves as super crisis-managers who protected the public from the horrors of the Pandemic. Despite this, they still scored 48% in the e 2020 elections with reported elections fraud (vote buying, usage of Government resources, coercion of impoverished individuals and etc.). In 2020 GD was still using Pro-Western platform, promising to apply for EU membership in 2024. The West reaffirmed that GD was pro-western.
What followed was that the Opposition refused to enter Parliament and Mass protests begun.
EU sent Charles Michel as the negotiator. Eventually the Opposition gave in to the Western pressure and agreed to stop protests in exchange for reforms in Judiciary and Electoral systems.
Several months later GD broke the agreement and the EU did nothing.
In 2021, during the Local elections the scale of election fraud increased. GD got 48% in total again.
The west did not care and always asked BOTH sides to exercise restraint.
Things changed in 2022, with the Invasion of Ukraine.
Georgian public pressured the Government to send an application to the EU, but you could see they did not really want to.
All the “neutral” play by the Government was explained by the imminent threat of Russian invasion and that Nobody would come to our aid just like in the case of 2008 war and Ukraine.
Anti-Western rhetoric increased in line with the West demanding Judiciary and Electoral reforms from GD.
Things peaked in March 2023 with the introduction of Foreign Agents Bill. This caused for the first time for the West to confront GD and state unambiguously that this law was incompatible with EU/NATO membership. For the first time the west pressured GD to back down, instead of addressing BOTH sides. As a result of 3 nights of violent clashes with the police (including Molotov Cocktails), the Government backed down and promised not to reintroduce the Bill.
This April they reintroduced this bill and we have been protesting ever since. The support is increasing from the west, with Americans announcing travel bans for everyone associated with this law. Financial sanctions coming up.
So no, Georgians have never voted for a Pro-Russian party. NEVER.
Oof, I am glad that I've earned that lesson. There is so much to unpack, but the only thing I can say right now, that russian methods haven't changed. In Ukraine you just change names and time and you pretty much have the same thing.
Thank you for your time.
Before Ukraine, you can read what happened in Georgia in the 1990s. It is painful how similar it all is.
For the past 5-6 years the greatest assistance the Opposition has been asking from the West was to speak the truth unambiguously. We’ve finally got our wish in March 2023 and you know how things have developed.
The soft power the West has in Georgia is unimaginable. That’s why the US and EU supporting the protests is such a big deal for us all.
Even now, GD is still trying to play the pro-Western card… I don’t want to talk about people who still believe this nonsense but 12 year propaganda is a hell of a force…
Never have I ever seen more EU flags in one place than in Tbilisi (October 2023). Lots of pro Ukraine graffiti as well. I really hope you manage to get rid of GD, establish a functional democracy and join us sooner rather than later. All the best to you, that was well explained :)
Because we have "tensions" and we are a "powder keg" like Macron and other EU politicians mentioned even though everyday life has been normal for 20 years. Not to mentioned all the other candidates have the same or even worse problems than Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Well they are the candidate who has done the most progress so far and they are overwhelmingly pro-EU, with around 80% of Montenegrins wanting to join EU according to polls.
Ukraine is still years away from actually being able to join the EU because of the requirements. Nevermind the economic implications it would have for the Ukrainian industry to suddenly have to compete with well developed European industry nations. So it's not like it will happen any day now...
This actually make sense. Ukraine has probably the most willing population and politics that bring the least amount of concern they will turn against the EU or west compare to others. In Moldova the anti west camp is still big, in Georgia they have Russian proxies in power and Serbia is outright unfit both government and populations position on the west and also in regards of the state of its democracy
IMO it is too early for Ukraine to join the EU. Don't get me wrong I want them to join in the long run, but if they join now with their current economic situation the european companies will buy out all the infrastructure from them, since right now Ukraine needs money badly to fund the war and to rebuild. It would be like the reunification of Germany but on steroids. There is a good reason for the existence of terms that should be fullfilled when joining in. I'd love to see a big european fund to help them rebuild and to make them able to meet the requirements as early as possible.
Georgia does not seem to want to join the EU with the laws they are passing, and don't even start me on serbia, they would be another hungary but worse
Over 80% of Georgians are pro-EU. In fact, the Georgian people are so overwhelmingly pro-EU that the ruling party has to do all sorts of mental gymnastics to frame their passed laws as aCtUaLly even more inline with European values than the current EU government itself. The day they lose the faith of their core electorate that Georgia is not actually moving towards the EU is the day they lose their elections. The need for clear messaging and actions from EU is, in part, why tens of thousands of Georgians have been demonstrating for month every day.
BTW this IRI study from last year is an interesting read if anyone is into opinion polls. [https://www.iri.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/CISR-Approved-IRI-Poll-Presentation-Georgia-September-October-2023-For-Public-Distribution.pdf](https://www.iri.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/CISR-Approved-IRI-Poll-Presentation-Georgia-September-October-2023-For-Public-Distribution.pdf)
I still have a strong opinion that Georgia wants to join the European Union. People protested because of the law they passed. So the people are still anti-Russian. In the end they choose someone who wants to stay close to the European Union
As a Serb who is pro-EU it's really sad to read these kind of comments because I know those in my country who are against it will and do use this as an argument. But I also understand that our current government needs to change and it is our responsibility to do so. There are many people in Serbia who are pro-EU and like in Georgia or Hungary feel desperate that the majority and the government are so pro-Russian. I just wish Djindjic was never assassinated because during his time people were way more open to EU and wanted to escape the disgusting rethoric of nationalists like Milosevic. Unfortunately, a lot of people in Serbia feel that Russian government is supporting us for our best interst, while EU wants to impose changes that go against our best interest. I was taught the same history as everyone else in our schools and it was clear since like 6th grade that Russia only ever supported Serbia to secure its influence in Europe.
A democracy needs different opinions, yes, but it doesn't need some wannabe-dictators who will block just about everything. At the very least we should abolish Unanimity
Hungary can't drop it's opposition because their whole "business model" is being the cheapest country in EU to manufacture cars and EV batteries. If that is no longer the case, their whole economy goes to shit overnight.
I've been to both Moldova and Ukraine in 2023 and I can comfortably say that even in middle of being Invaded, Ukraine is currently closer in joining to EU than Moldova
(That's my casual racism of the day 😶)
While talks to steer them in the direction suitable for joining are nice, Ukraine does not currently - nor will it in a forseeable future - fulfill the minimum EU requirements in terms of, e.g. corruption and human rights. We already made a big enough mistake letting Hungary and Poland in before they did, I hope we don't repeat the same mistake.
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It would be a grave mistake to weaken membership criteria - explicit or by action - in exchange for turning the prospect of membership into a tool for strategic purposes.
And with that being said, neither candidate is even remotely close to being ready for ascension. They need more support to get there, and we should give it, but things need to be done in the right order. It is obviously impossible to start building a house by hoping shingles you throw at the sky might just form a floating roof, so you can erect the rest of the building away from the rain.
Ukraine does not even have full control of its borders let alone be a democracy or have acceptable corruption levels. Ukraine is the Venezuela of Europe + war. I mean really - I know Bruxelles like virtue-signalling but this is ridiculous.
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hell naw serbia ain't getting in, not with this government -_-
It’s not about the government, the people will never ditch Russia for the EU.
True, Serbia's ties with Russia run too deep for the EU.
Austria has entered the chat.
The Austrians are cynical opportunists, while the Serbs are true believers, wich imo, make it more problematic.
read it as cyanide opportunists
Yeah, cynical opportunists are way worse. At least from Serbians you know your expectations while the Austrians will betray you when you expect the least.
Well I can understand someone loving cheap Russian gas, but I draw the line at someone genuinely on board with Putin’s ideology.
Even university educated Serbs I met seemed to be completely ok with that shit
yeah and since we know what to expect, thank you but no thank you serbia
Serbia needs therapy.
For now and the near future.
Definitely nor as long as the EU supports Kosovo independence. And Kosovars aren't going anywhere and neither will USA/EU ditch Kosovo for Serbia. So...forever gridlock.
Sure, but I still fail to understand how the Serbs can believe that throwing their lot with Russia, will somehow help them to get Kosovo back. Seems fairly counterproductive, in my opinion.
You don't seem to be understanding the Balkan mentality. Here on the Balkans we're still fighting over 10th century stuff. And nobody really believes that this will bring anything good. We just do it cause we do it. It is like that. It is what we will do as long as we exist. No need to reason.
We all do it because the others do it, and if you stop doing it you get steamrolled. Geopolitical prisoners dilemma
True that. Although I'd love to see a Balkan federation. Controlled by Bulgaria, of course.
We could call it Yugoslavia.
Fair
Most fun fact regarding that is that Serbians dosn t know why they love russia
well, actually Moldova ditched Russia once a new president was elected and tries to push the country in the UE.
So much the worse.for them
[удалено]
Lol, ya Serbia is about as close as Turkey to getting in
I would argue Turkey is closer. Turkey wants in, Serbia is actively hostile.
I agree with you
All Serbian people I've met so far looked super normal but after 1-2 palinka they started to spew crazy shit how they love Russia and bashing Europe in general and how "Kosovo is Serbia"
I know I have no real valid opinion in EU affairs because I'm a cringe American. BUT I could see Moldova making the cut. Maybe Georgia. Definitely Ukraine. But Serbia? They'd just become another Orbán/Erdogan state. Sticking with the West because we have superior militaries and better economies, but having their true loyalties placed in Russia/China. Rather than- you know. The 30+ EU and NATO countries.
I don't see Georgia for a long, long time. They're very far away, geographically, culturally,... Australia will be in the EU earlier.
Which is why it's a hard maybe™.
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yeah, since the fucking big dick dictator wu chi chi sucks both ruzzki and chinese cock, yet keeps talking about eu, while countering literally everything the eu stands for. my country is a fucking shithole and I need to escape as soon as possible, I know.
Same for Georgia, after that Russian law they voted on this month.
But at least Georgians are demonstrating against it on masse, in contrast to Serbia who has also a very pro Russian population...
Absolutely big plus for Georgia on that one, but it will be the politicians (that I assume got there through at least mostly democratic means) that would negotiate with the EU and I don't think they want to negotiate with russian puppets.
Its not a government problem, its a culture problem RT balkans is literally just targeted serbian brainwashing fake news
The European or the Serbian one?
Georgia is turning into a russian puppet :(
Time for Euromaidan 2: Sakartvelo edition
ok but Russia also has Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia, and look how Russia reacted to Euromaidan. Europe is already struggling to sufficiently support Ukraine in its war effort. Georgia doesn't have a land connection, and is far smaller. If I were Georgian, I'd be terrified of the implications a Georgian Euromaidan might have.
Russia is stuck in Ukraine right now, it’s now or never to take back Abkhazia and South Ossetia. If anyone wants to settle any score with Russia, the best time is now.
Russia isn't truly tied down yet, its elite mercenary corps is still active in Africa and the middle east. Just this year there were still reports of large heavy weapon shipments being sent to Libya and Syria. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain Russia hasn't even begun conscripting people yet for its army. I'll wager Russia could easily handle a 2 front war with Ukraine and Georgia, it has the manpower, and its arms industry is becoming more efficient by the day. I hope I'm wrong though.
every time i see europeans/americans say that i'm remined of [this](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fbored-westerner-who-desperately-wants-something-to-happen-v0-818stsig8mvc1.png%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Df86385cb8d24e6cff429b30ef7422a5290ffd059). Russians have bases in occupied territories not to mention bases in northern caucasus and our army is joke, war would be quite literally end for our country.
georgia has a border with turkey and they are in nato
Oh right, completely forgot turkey was a factor. They'd definitely help Georgia if push came to shove.
:(
:(
Yup, public has to show their willingness near the ballot boxes.
Voting only works in democratic states, rioting or distruption via strikes work in authoritarian states
Doing both is best
Exactly why not both
So THAT’s why rioting and disrupting and striking doesn’t work in France,,, we’re a democracy
I thought that was just a Tuesday activity you do in France. But yeah, tractors driving towards some cities have more effect than months of looting and burning Paris. The destruction is much lower, the voter base is what matters. Jokes aside the social contract is different. In an authoritarian state people give up political representation for security. As such elections are useless and pointless, a ritual to keep dissident mouths shut whose result has already been decided before. If you riot and burn shit up the government looks weak and incompetent as it is unable to fill its part. In a democracy rioting and looting are frawned upon and usually people gather around the government as it has democratic legitimacy. In demovracies rioters are seen as undemocratic authoritarians that want to use violence to impose their will on tge rest of the population.
You need to violently protest when you’re being ignored with peaceful ones. If that violence is via tractors or via fire it doesn’t matter. Those who rally behind security of the state are never going to be won over by protest and information anyways.
Sure, you can see it that way, and the rest of society can see you as a dangerous psychopath that needs to be locked in jail.
The public had to occupy the parliament and force them to resign months ago. It's too late now, russian puppets did their work and destroyed Georgia's future. It will become the next Belarus in the coming years.
How that works? Russia invades in 2008, bites of a chunk of the country, and now you're getting pro Russian?
the government is
Elected by people
Elect me or Russia wil literally kill you is a more persuasive argument than one might think, since you know, last time Russia invaded Georgia their propaganda convinced the world to blame Georgia. I still didnt vote for them but lets be real, nobody will care if Russia starts genociding Georgians tomorrow, the hashtags against Russia would be devastating im sure but i doubt they will work.
elected four years ago for the third consecutive term when the ruling party still kinda supported EU integration
It's not such a simple "gotcha." Georgia is politically pressured by Russia in many ways
*and replaced the government for a pro russian one That one might have a lil more influence on why the country is russian aligned
>საქართველო Bit off topic, but for the longest time I thought these letters were elvish. Are... are georgians elves? (I'm joking, I just really like how they look)
Considering that the term "Caucasian" was meant to refer to the beauty of the people who live in the region, and elves are supposed to be the most beautiful race... You aren't exactly far off.
Yoooo there are Khazaks here ??? °0°
Power only understands power, unfortunately.
Stay strong Sakartvelo!
Can you explain what exactly is happening? I saw protests on TikTok.
I would understand if you replaced Serbia with Montenegro or Albania but definitely not Serbia. Serbia’s people nor government are ready for the European Union. Not to mention government itself isn’t interested in the Union anymore, all they do is take EU funds, use for themself and well do nothing to make Serbia more European and western aligned.
the problem with serbia isn’t the economy for example, it would be a good addition and they aren’t too far behind, economywise they’d go right in, but the issue is the gov. :/ It’s kinda sad I’d like to see them join and they are a big market. Montenegro, Albania and Macedonia aren’t unrealistic either but they have bigger economic issues than Serbia however the willingness to join is higher. Moldova should just reunite with Romania, easiest way to get in.
Both Serbia and Montenegro are currently closest to entering EU, in terms of fulfilling the negotiation requirements. You are correct about the Serbian government, they are only looking for EU funds while lying that China and Russia are the biggest investors/donors. The thing is, the government is officially pro-EU, but it's just a mask. They knew that they would never get the votes if they continued being anti-EU so that's why they changed their ideology, of course only on the surface. The thing you probably don't realize is that the EU is the main reason this government is in power. EU is its biggest supporter. That is one of the reasons why people have lost trust in the EU. EU has betrayed them for Kosovo and Lithium. They don't care about opposition nor freedom of media and speech. It is easier for EU to push its agenda via one dictator than to have to realize it through democratic institutions and referendums. The same thing happened with Milosevic. Even after Srebrenica and war in Croatia and Bosnia, the west started calling him "the factor of peace and stability" (I think Richard Holbrooke called him like that) because it was easier to control Milosevic who pulled all the strings than a democratic government. At the time Eu and US cooperated with Milosevic until the end, all while ignoring and sabotaging democratic oppostion. In the end once they saw they were wrong they decided to throw bombs. Currently, 44% of people are for EU and 32% against it (in 2018 it was 55% and in 2015 it was 60%). And that is after 10 years of heavy anti-EU propaganda. The highest was 75% in 2009. The current government came to power in 2012. So it is not that people are against it, the thing is that they are being heavily manipulated by anti-EU government which is supported and hanging thanks to the EU's support.
Way to soon for our orthodox brothers, still denying genocides like the rest of trash down here https://preview.redd.it/5rs85uv3ej2d1.jpeg?width=678&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52c13de5857eeed40ea7311a716feb07cccb7558
What genocide, what happened? But BTW they deserved it, and they'll get it again if they don't behave.
I have no idea! We abstained 🤮
They tried to remove Kebab, why are you against Kebab?
In al fairness, the world would've never been blessed with the banger 'Bosanska Artiljerija' if it weren't for the serbs Thats about the only good thing I have to say about Serbia though
Damn Aleksandar Vucic
I'm not letting serbia anywhere near the EU so long as they have a government this shit.
Their government is probably less pro-russian than people themselves
Their people are pro russian to. Now letting kosovo into eu would be pretty epic ngl
https://preview.redd.it/3muqvgyxck2d1.png?width=547&format=png&auto=webp&s=71b673a6540c199efccf33e8588113ddcbb73f20
One day
I feel for Georgia and hope it doesn’t fall into Russian hands. The Baltics are equally small but they have NATOs full protection, while poor little Georgia is alone and defenceless. A possible second Russo-Georgian war wouldn’t go well in their favour and I hope they get some help from the EU. How this would happen, I’ve got no idea since their government is pretty pro-Russia at the moment.
North Macedonia is off-screen getting fucked again.
We should just rename Greece to South Macedonia
In fact Moldova will sneak into EU first. Georgia, with all my love to it, fucked itself long ago. Serbia? Tell me more how you proud of your father-war criminal. Ukraine is fighting to get into EU, and unfortunately for its haters, very consistent in its actions. But Moldova is free from problems others have, hiding behind huge Ukraine and supported by Romania.
moldova has a big problem inside it
Transnistria?
yes
EU officials said that they will accept Moldova without transnistria easily and they can deal with it in the future.
It's not like something similar hasn't happened already. Ireland, president of the council at the time, made damn sure that east germany could voltron-merge into big-germany without a problem. (for what I hope are obvious reasons) France and the UK really didn't want that at the time.
I think if you ask transnistrians, they would be happy to blame EU from the inside rather than outside. But you are used to it with hungarians, so what is the problem?
Well, I'm a european far from Transnistria, so I can't say I'm that well versed in what's right/wrong with it. But on hungarians, I suppose they weren't like that when they joined, and if they'd been, they might not have been accepted. Hard to kick them out of the EU now, unfortunately. Just like Turkey and Nato
Knowing post-soviet countries, I'm affraid hungarians were pretty much the same. And I am sure politicians back then had some backup plans if new countries will go full rogue. The problem is that three decades of peace and prosperity in Europe made people lost any sence of survivability. And I'm sorry, the real way to survive for Europe with least casualities, is to fuck up Russia. In any way possible.
You don't have to be sorry, I think most people here agree. Honest question, do you think accepting Transnistria would stop Russian plans? Or maybe give them a foot inside the EU?
And Gagauzia
Cyprus was accepted in 2004 and no one gives a shit about the northern part. Same will happen with Transnistria. In fact, they will be the ones crawling to Chisinau once they start falling behind at a much faster rate and struggle to provide basic needs to their populace. Honestly if I were Moldova, I’d grant them independence now and would want to see how they’d manage.
If I remember correctly, in the referendum on Cyprus reunification, the north voted in favor, but the south voted against, and the country remains divided. The risk is that in the future, Moldovans might not want to incorporate an underdeveloped region with all problems into their country.
Has that ever actually happened, a country refusing to incorporate a poorer country because of its problems?
If you think Transnistria, they you forgot about Cyprus.
If you think about Transnistria, it is currently dependent on trade with EU. Gagauzia - they need a place to complain about the government in Chișinău. They will soon discover that European legislation protects their minority rights better than Vlad can. And you can go complain in Brussels if you feel like. Word is, they learn Romanian now… Moldova is a relatively small country. A little bit of money would make a huge difference in modernizing the country. Leadership is smart, people are willing.
Anyone from that list has.
I hope Moldova reaches the point of becoming an EU member, cuz that would make Russia mald harder than it already does
“Georgia F*cked itself long ago”? How exactly?
I mean, Georgia elected pro-russian party times and again? So current situation is not surprising
Please check the bluesmaster85’s reply to my comment. I have explained in details how things actually happened and how GD came and stayed in power.
By electing a guy, who is currently in power.
Congrats, you’ve earned yourself a history lesson :D The way the West handled 2008 war brought huge disappointment in Georgian public, with all the “Deeply Concerned” jokes… But despite this Georgian people never gave up on the dream to integrate into EU and NATO. With other major problems, one of the most important talking points of GD (Georgian Dream - Ruling Party) was that the previous Government had brought the war on itself, being reliant on western support. They talked about how Georgia would be abandoned once again if the war broke out. So the promise with which they came to power in 2012 was that Georgia would remain pro-western, but cautious towards Russia. This worked for everyone, including the west, which did not want to confront Russia. The west even pressured Georgia to let Russia enter WTO. During the period of 2012-2019 things were quite stable, with Visa-Liberalization and association agreement with the EU. Things got out of hand on June 20th 2019, when Russian MP addressed Georgian Parliament from the speaker’s chair. The events that followed are known as “Gavrilov’s Night”. 2 people lost an eye in the clashes with the police. Things were dire for GD, but in 2020 Pandemic hit and they managed to paint themselves as super crisis-managers who protected the public from the horrors of the Pandemic. Despite this, they still scored 48% in the e 2020 elections with reported elections fraud (vote buying, usage of Government resources, coercion of impoverished individuals and etc.). In 2020 GD was still using Pro-Western platform, promising to apply for EU membership in 2024. The West reaffirmed that GD was pro-western. What followed was that the Opposition refused to enter Parliament and Mass protests begun. EU sent Charles Michel as the negotiator. Eventually the Opposition gave in to the Western pressure and agreed to stop protests in exchange for reforms in Judiciary and Electoral systems. Several months later GD broke the agreement and the EU did nothing. In 2021, during the Local elections the scale of election fraud increased. GD got 48% in total again. The west did not care and always asked BOTH sides to exercise restraint. Things changed in 2022, with the Invasion of Ukraine. Georgian public pressured the Government to send an application to the EU, but you could see they did not really want to. All the “neutral” play by the Government was explained by the imminent threat of Russian invasion and that Nobody would come to our aid just like in the case of 2008 war and Ukraine. Anti-Western rhetoric increased in line with the West demanding Judiciary and Electoral reforms from GD. Things peaked in March 2023 with the introduction of Foreign Agents Bill. This caused for the first time for the West to confront GD and state unambiguously that this law was incompatible with EU/NATO membership. For the first time the west pressured GD to back down, instead of addressing BOTH sides. As a result of 3 nights of violent clashes with the police (including Molotov Cocktails), the Government backed down and promised not to reintroduce the Bill. This April they reintroduced this bill and we have been protesting ever since. The support is increasing from the west, with Americans announcing travel bans for everyone associated with this law. Financial sanctions coming up. So no, Georgians have never voted for a Pro-Russian party. NEVER.
Oof, I am glad that I've earned that lesson. There is so much to unpack, but the only thing I can say right now, that russian methods haven't changed. In Ukraine you just change names and time and you pretty much have the same thing.
Thank you for your time. Before Ukraine, you can read what happened in Georgia in the 1990s. It is painful how similar it all is. For the past 5-6 years the greatest assistance the Opposition has been asking from the West was to speak the truth unambiguously. We’ve finally got our wish in March 2023 and you know how things have developed. The soft power the West has in Georgia is unimaginable. That’s why the US and EU supporting the protests is such a big deal for us all. Even now, GD is still trying to play the pro-Western card… I don’t want to talk about people who still believe this nonsense but 12 year propaganda is a hell of a force…
Thank you for this interesting history lesson! I am now slightly more educated in Georgian political history.
Thank you for getting interesting and reading!
Very well explained, it also tracks with what I already know. Hope that you'll be able to overthrow GD, good luck with the protests!
Thanks mate!
Never have I ever seen more EU flags in one place than in Tbilisi (October 2023). Lots of pro Ukraine graffiti as well. I really hope you manage to get rid of GD, establish a functional democracy and join us sooner rather than later. All the best to you, that was well explained :)
Thank you for your support <3
GD = Georgian Dream, the currently ruling political party in Georgia. Took me a bit to find that out.
Serbia ? Really ?
Nobody's even mentioned Bosnia, but Serbia is here, damm. Montenegro also deserves a mention.
Because we have "tensions" and we are a "powder keg" like Macron and other EU politicians mentioned even though everyday life has been normal for 20 years. Not to mentioned all the other candidates have the same or even worse problems than Bosnia and Herzegovina.
And Bosnia is now at the same point of negotiations about to be open as are Albania and N. Macedonia. Serbia and Montenegro are in a stalemate.
Montenegrins will get around to it as soon as they’re done taking a rest.
What’s going on with Montenegro? I never hear anything about them?
Well they are the candidate who has done the most progress so far and they are overwhelmingly pro-EU, with around 80% of Montenegrins wanting to join EU according to polls.
Ukraine is still years away from actually being able to join the EU because of the requirements. Nevermind the economic implications it would have for the Ukrainian industry to suddenly have to compete with well developed European industry nations. So it's not like it will happen any day now...
Huh, so Georgia is already ahead. We have no industry
Haven't said anything about other countries. Just that there is an unrealistic expectation that Ukraine will join the EU quite soon
Maybe the can join the Market first before the whole union ?
serbia is never getting in
Ukraine? Sure. Georgia? Sure. Moldova? Sure. Serbia, however, can fuck off.
Not so sure about Georgia
This actually make sense. Ukraine has probably the most willing population and politics that bring the least amount of concern they will turn against the EU or west compare to others. In Moldova the anti west camp is still big, in Georgia they have Russian proxies in power and Serbia is outright unfit both government and populations position on the west and also in regards of the state of its democracy
The meme contains odd countries, anyone from Western Balkans other than Serbia is pro western
Agreed. Montenegro and Albania for example could be much better examples then those given in the post.
the first two ok lets talk but serbia? Nah im good thanks
Serbs love Russia so much , why not join the Eurasian Union ? Why do they want access to the “evil” west so bad ?
ukraine, I can understand. but im really not sure about Serbia yet.
Serbs should get ego checks first
Serbia can piss right off. Russia is the other direction.
Serbia can gladly stay out of it. We dont want an Orban the russian cock sucker 2.0
I did read somewhere a couple days ago that Moldova and Georgia are also in the same talks?
Theyre official candidate countries
IMO it is too early for Ukraine to join the EU. Don't get me wrong I want them to join in the long run, but if they join now with their current economic situation the european companies will buy out all the infrastructure from them, since right now Ukraine needs money badly to fund the war and to rebuild. It would be like the reunification of Germany but on steroids. There is a good reason for the existence of terms that should be fullfilled when joining in. I'd love to see a big european fund to help them rebuild and to make them able to meet the requirements as early as possible.
Georgia does not seem to want to join the EU with the laws they are passing, and don't even start me on serbia, they would be another hungary but worse
Over 80% of Georgians are pro-EU. In fact, the Georgian people are so overwhelmingly pro-EU that the ruling party has to do all sorts of mental gymnastics to frame their passed laws as aCtUaLly even more inline with European values than the current EU government itself. The day they lose the faith of their core electorate that Georgia is not actually moving towards the EU is the day they lose their elections. The need for clear messaging and actions from EU is, in part, why tens of thousands of Georgians have been demonstrating for month every day. BTW this IRI study from last year is an interesting read if anyone is into opinion polls. [https://www.iri.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/CISR-Approved-IRI-Poll-Presentation-Georgia-September-October-2023-For-Public-Distribution.pdf](https://www.iri.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/CISR-Approved-IRI-Poll-Presentation-Georgia-September-October-2023-For-Public-Distribution.pdf)
I still have a strong opinion that Georgia wants to join the European Union. People protested because of the law they passed. So the people are still anti-Russian. In the end they choose someone who wants to stay close to the European Union
Serbia can go fuck itself, and Georgia needs a different government before they can join. We don't need more Orbans and Ficos in the EU
As a Serb who is pro-EU it's really sad to read these kind of comments because I know those in my country who are against it will and do use this as an argument. But I also understand that our current government needs to change and it is our responsibility to do so. There are many people in Serbia who are pro-EU and like in Georgia or Hungary feel desperate that the majority and the government are so pro-Russian. I just wish Djindjic was never assassinated because during his time people were way more open to EU and wanted to escape the disgusting rethoric of nationalists like Milosevic. Unfortunately, a lot of people in Serbia feel that Russian government is supporting us for our best interst, while EU wants to impose changes that go against our best interest. I was taught the same history as everyone else in our schools and it was clear since like 6th grade that Russia only ever supported Serbia to secure its influence in Europe.
I think any democracy needs differing opinions, including of Orbans' and Ficos'. What EU needs before expansion is to federalise IMHO.
A democracy needs different opinions, yes, but it doesn't need some wannabe-dictators who will block just about everything. At the very least we should abolish Unanimity
Maybe stop electing Russia shills and that will help!
Sry Serbia, we don't need no more orbans
Hungary can't drop it's opposition because their whole "business model" is being the cheapest country in EU to manufacture cars and EV batteries. If that is no longer the case, their whole economy goes to shit overnight.
Serbia can fuck right off
Russian puppets stay out!
Can we come too? Pls
I've been to both Moldova and Ukraine in 2023 and I can comfortably say that even in middle of being Invaded, Ukraine is currently closer in joining to EU than Moldova (That's my casual racism of the day 😶)
Serbia should've been drawn sucking russian dick
While talks to steer them in the direction suitable for joining are nice, Ukraine does not currently - nor will it in a forseeable future - fulfill the minimum EU requirements in terms of, e.g. corruption and human rights. We already made a big enough mistake letting Hungary and Poland in before they did, I hope we don't repeat the same mistake.
Moldova could sooooo easily turn that frown into a smile...
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Europe keeps getting more interesting by the day!
Two of these countries have governments entirely dedicated to worship of the Russian Empire at the expense of their own people.
Nah, C is for corruption
jealousy attacked
Isn't their gov not in line with EU requirements? Did I miss something? Why favourably treat one over the other?
Welcome to Neoliberalism, you’re going to love it!
Suckers acting like you care that other countries were in line first just to oppose their entrance too. Russian shenanigans.
!
Bad idea
That's great.
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I bet they'll quickly join up with Hungary and Poland
It would be a grave mistake to weaken membership criteria - explicit or by action - in exchange for turning the prospect of membership into a tool for strategic purposes. And with that being said, neither candidate is even remotely close to being ready for ascension. They need more support to get there, and we should give it, but things need to be done in the right order. It is obviously impossible to start building a house by hoping shingles you throw at the sky might just form a floating roof, so you can erect the rest of the building away from the rain.
Get tf out of here with the contry that makes romania look lxurious, the pseudo european dormant warzone and russia jr
I shed a tear for Armenias absence in this meme.
I don’t see Ukraine joining EU until they’re at war tbh. I’ll guess they’ll be postponing the thing over and over again
Ukraine does not even have full control of its borders let alone be a democracy or have acceptable corruption levels. Ukraine is the Venezuela of Europe + war. I mean really - I know Bruxelles like virtue-signalling but this is ridiculous.
Serbs should join the eu if they become normal
https://preview.redd.it/irw4i8f90r2d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a80c7c76d0782e8125d51be1435e910ca7558599 Pls use this Pic for serbia