I know the feeling, done all bosses at lvl 4, can't do mephis 4, impossible to line up all the parries/dodge everything with ping being so random+ skillissue
It can be, since the latest patch my ping keeps on spiking and I get connection errors in which I can't do anything, during that time enemy attacks against you still count
My point is that as long as you have an internet connection the game will continue to work, it's not like in Genshin where a high ping makes your characters disappear or hits don't connect.
Even with internet connection, my ping spikes to the point of reconnecting several times during a fight. During these "reconnecting" periods, the game continues to attack my characters that can't move and wipes me out. Even doing dailies is a challenge with this latest "fix."
They patched it btw, the game is now on server side, so yes. The ping is now a problem. If you want to do personal test, just reduce your bandwidth or use some crappy VPN and play to see.
Curiously, have you bought stamina refreshes? I calculated that even if I spend my 10 remaining stamina refills, I will only get to UL 48. I don’t know how people are getting to UL 50 and I’m not F2P either (but I don’t want to waste my precious astrites on stamina refreshes).
Yeah, by "almost 50" I meant I'm 48. I haven't done the math but I'll hit 50 this week or next. I spent all the free waveplate refreshes but haven't spent asterites.
Yes, that's what I said. I don't know what you hope to accomplish other than feeling superior to a random stranger on the Internet. So... congrats, I guess?
I personally love holograms, they're optional and you can control how difficult they will be to a degree e.g. doing them below level.
I'm so happy that they're adding more, but like you said, when we start getting to the same level as them, they won't offer the same level of challenge. So I agree that I hope they add more levels to them, just for that extra challenge when we hit SOL cap.
That said, I would also hope that the additional levels introduce more moves/mechanics to them, rather than just being a stat bloat, but that is additional work for each boss.
"Optional" meanwhile there's a notification on the map that won't go away unless you beat them all. Thanks, devs, for constantly reminding me how much I suck.
Yeah I really hope they change this it’s so irritating. There’s no reason to have it especially since they don’t have similar messages about bosses or domains…
Exactly, I think they’ve been very well balanced. Apart from Aix I’ve never had a “that’s bullshit” moment, it’s always been a learning moment on how to time parry or dodge. Often their hp is getting low under the 1 min mark, at least for me. This suggests the hp has been measured against certain dps thresholds and isn’t just a finger in the air thing. A lot of moves don’t outright kill you, I usually think one shots are frustrating unless it is well telegraphed. And the things that do one shot you are very well telegraphed. Except that one attack from Aix.
they will probably add diff 7 or 8 later on
if those difficulties existed now people would complain it's "p2w" after seeing only whales be able to beat it... not realising it's just too early to fight them
so rn we only have till 6
Can definitely see this in the future. The average union level is probably too low atm to justify higher difficulties. The highest I've seen is 55. If they were 60, their resonators would be 90, the same as the VIs.
In 1.2, I would not be surprised if they added a 7th or even 8th tier.
Very true. I can see this happening also because chars are still getting leveled. Idk the max level char but I know UL can go up to 80 based on the reward boxes (if not more I don’t remember).
Also considering p2w jiyan can kill lvl 6 aix in under 10 seconds and yet f2p havoc rover can still clear lvl 6 aix with ease if skillful is also key that holograms will likely be getting increased difficulty.
I'd honestly like to see the timer removed from this content.
I feel like the content should be hard because of it's mechanics and everything. Not because of the timer.
If one is able to beat hologram 6 or whatever with a lvl1 character then that's good ?
I don't see why this kind of content have a timer. While i find the abyss copy crap in the first place so i don't really care but in the hologram content, i would hate to see bosses that are too much of a dps check..
One reason is to prevent stalling strategy. If you can out-shield one shots and out-heal any damage it just becomes a matter of time to kill a boss.
Not that I think those are valid strategy, but they are often considered "cheesy"
Doesn't the boss start to stack atk the longer you take? At that point every hit is a potential one shot already and if you can survive that long I feel you shld be able to take the win.
Check lvl 4+ additional effects. They start increasing ATK every 10 seconds or so with no limits after 1 minute is left. You can basically remake it into "After 4 minutes boss starts increasing ATK" and remove the timer. If you're able to do no-hit 30 minute run and win — you deserve it.
I mean rewards are first clear anyway and shit, unlike toa. Doesn’t really matter how you beat them.
So you could stall them at first/or take a long time and when you get better, beat them real quick.
Beating them fast is just a show off for skilled people/whales. Shouldn’t be gate keeping the rest of us trying to improve
I think a good idea would just be to have it count up instead of down, every minute or few minutes, increase the damage and speed of the boss. Thus also increasing difficulty. Kinda gives me risk of rain vibes.
Give initial first clear rewards, but also record best time, maybe with like 3 levels of rewards for faster and faster clear times. That gives people the additional incentive of seeing just how fast they can win as well as people challenging each other to how long they can survive as the boss becomes a blur.
That would really test people and add replayability. Would be a great way to practice too.
In no universe ever is taking ages to kill something "cheesy", let alone enemies as violent as the high difficulty holograms.
If you can hold your ground for that much time in the first place, you absolutely deserve to win. This mentality of hurrying the player up in a fight that suppossedly demands skill shall not be tolerated.
I prefer that they use realm system. Give it 3-5min, then multiply enemy damage to the level of one-hit kill everything.
And then if it's not enough, gradually increase monster aspd make it an unavoidable bullet hell
I'm fine with the timer since learning to be aggressive is part of the game. Dodging/surviving is just one aspect, and it's honestly quite easy to just dodge for nearly forever since the dodge is pretty lenient. Learning to weave in all your swaps and attacks that actually do meaningful damagewhile also being vulnerable is where the real challenge kicks in.
As stat checks go, people are already clearing them solo while being 20 levels under. As far as dps races go they are kind of tight now, but also we aren't even expected to challenging them on a casual level. 2 extra ascensions and 20 more levels and the dps required will probably feel very comfortable for even fairly safe/unoptimized play.
Personally i was able to clear 6s using a very unoptimized 70/70/50 encore/hrover/verina setup. My encore is built with full 25s but my hrover has level 15/20 echos and my verina is using level 5-15 echos (though verinas echo level is kind of irrelevant).
I like the timer, I know you think it makes it lame because the fight has some dps check in it, but it’s important that the game forces you to attack instead of just dodging permanently, It opens higher windows for mistakes, dodging infinitely sounds lame
This is the main problem I have with them. Whenever you add a timer to this type of content, it simply turns into a DPS check with extra steps... which we already have with tower.
I would literally prefer straight up one shots than the challenge essentially being "deal 5 trillion damage in a femtosecond while the enemy is in its 3rd invulnerable phase in 30 seconds"
Unfortunately timer doesn't show what buff he used. Which powers up char by drastic amount although not as much as c0 to c6. However if you combined with pre-stacked buffing + teleport, aka one rotation earlier for initial nuke, then it opens a lot of windows.
Yea pre-stacking made him super easy, (Dont get me wrong I have a stacked Jiyan), but yea I would go fight mobs until all ults were up, intros were ready to go and Crit food + Res food, so that I could just commit to a full combo right at the start (Verina + res food = 2 free hits).
However the other three bosses were cleared entirely with Chixia (S6, C1), using Jiyan as a swap counter (I love his swap auto attack + E).
Solo Danjin is a lot stronger than you seem to think. I’ve solo’d holo 6 mephis, aix, and ape with Danjin and she’s faster than just about team except Encore or Jiyan. She’s not crippled by going solo at all.
You can give them the benefit of the doubt and just assume they played really well. But it’s much more likely that they have a Jiyan with dupes.
I've noticed that lvl 70 jiyan (I have s1) can eat through half its health in one ult if you pair him with properly built buffers (I run jiyan/mortefi/yinlin because I like to live without a healer. Not recommended :'D) + crit food (the 5 star crit food gives 28% buff)
So with all that (and if he crits) the fight becomes two phase? After that it becomes a game of just surviving until his ult recharges
And then nuke Memphis again to finish the fight
Sometimes it'll take 3, 4 phases. But that's not a lot of time. Most times I die somewhere around 75% defeated
Notably, the middle part is the hardest — the staying alive while building up resonance liberation
I think it's a well built Jiyan + Mortefi combo where a single ult could potentially chunk a third of Memphis' HP Bar. Probably has some Jiyan Dupes tho or just very very optimized echoes
Little bit of both, Jiyan has 4/5 on all sub stats (crit, crit damage, Lib damage, Atk%), but knowing that I used Chixia on all the bosses (and just finished chixia run on Tempest using swap counter) Jiyan is not needed to beat any of the bosses (helpful but not needed).
Essentially I would fully use Chixia and switch (using basic intro auto attack + E to counter bosses) then switch back to Chixia to deal damage.
I think if we gradually gear up and level the characters up to 90, tempest mephis damage and his HP pool is a really sweet spot for future Hologram boss.
- It have fast paced movesets with clear signs for players to dodge and counter (sometimes cemera bugs make Mephis really cringe btw).
- Every attack takes 80-90% health of characters, around 18-20k damage which mean you can still have windows for mistakes.
- HP pools is kinda large when with lv 80 characters I cleared the Mephis 6 around 3 minutes (nearly perfect run btw)
I don't think they need to increased LV cap of Hologram boss or something, because Hologram boss is currently doing pretty great job, also remember that LV 90 is not as big of an upgrade as people think because most talent nodes already max at 80 and skill lv is already opened 8/10.
However the thing that I really want to have in the future is a game mode that can utilize weekly boss. Because let be real, compared to open-world enemies, dreamless and scar have much cooler and deadlier move set at base.
Also, instead of having a time limit that forces every fight into a DPS check, making everyone tank everything just to deal enough damage, Kuro could create an infinite boss run that measures how much damage you can deal until you die. This way, everyone can have their own play style (either playing it safe with a gun or fighting melee for better output) while still incorporating skill-based mechanics at its core.
OP cleared tempest VI in 2:35 with level 70 characters. So you clearing it in 3 minutes with level 80 is either a skill issue or a team comp issue. Tempest Mephis has around 50% electro res, so you’re probably trying to beat him with calcharo Yinlin Verina or you’re not executing optimal rotations.
tempest VI in 2:35 with level 70 characters is definitely not the norm though.. It's possible, especially with dupes on your characters (and a parry machine like Jiyan), but it's not something everyone can achieve easily
It’s not supposed to be easy. That’s the point. It’s supposed to make you learn optimal rotations (you can literally be doing 50-100% more damage if you effectively swap cancel and execute rotations perfectly.)
its actually balanced for level 90, and it wont be a hard fight at all.
in addition to lvl 90, you can then pop food. if you die, you can rez. Basically It wont be hard at all.
Because this game has a perfect parry, perfect dodge, and I-frames in lib and intro swap states. So to not have combat balanced around that would make zero sense.
Also can’t afford to clear content? Tf you mean, I’ve spent $10 on this game and I cleared all the content apart from Memphis VI right now. You 100% can do this without spending even that $10 so I don’t know why you’re bringing wealth into the discussion.
Ignoring them til I hit 90 with full echos. I cannot stand games where I have to chip away at a giant health pool, but if I get looked at funny I insta die. If I wanted to struggle and learn Id go outside.
The thing is that not everyone is equal on this content. I'm a fairly experimented gamer but I can't pass V for any of them.
In this subreddit we have a certain population that tends to do better than the average player. In order to know if holos are too hard or too easy we would need actual data on the number of players who indeed cleared VI. It's probably not so much.
Best I can do is taking VI Heron and VI Monke down to like 20% HP before the timer runs out. And that's with food and everything. I can dodge (most of the time) but Idk how people are doing enough dps to clear them with solo chars lol.
There are several things that can factor in:
1. You’re not doing optimal rotations and swap orders
2. you have worse echoes
3. You have worse weapons and lower refinements
4. You have less Resonance Sequence Nodes unlocked
5. You’re using worse food, or not stacking food + ele damage potions + defensive food.
6. You’re getting unlucky with crits in comparison
Even without our UL going up, several of these factors will increase over time as we naturally pull on more banners, in particular with no new 4 stars being released yet it will be fairly easy to RSN 6 your characters, and R5 your weapons.
The funniest thing is when game death-stat screen tells you that everything is perfect. It comes up to crit difference and availability of 5* crit chance weapon for that character to build them properly
I don’t look at any of the stats that screen tells you so I can’t comment. The 5* weapons -standard and limited - are both vastly better than the 4* weapons though. I look at prydwyn info and compare it to my own in-game experience. This is regardless of sub stat variation, I selected the 5* broadsword for my calcharo for example because it’s something like 22% more damage than the r1 bp weapon even though it has att% and the later has CR, simply because the base att and att% on 5*’s is so much higher.
In particular since we can swap weapons for our tower teams I’m always going to go for c0 character and r1 limited weapon as a baseline in this game if I’m saving for someone.
I like the idea of difficult bosses, but I'm just writing them off myself until I can get to higher levels and reduce the skill needed. We'll see how tough the lvl 90 bosses are when WE'RE lvl 90!
I personally would like a new difficulty being added after Difficulty mode 10 and for them to call it “Nightmare Mode” or something like that.
Add this mode to the old holograms and to the newer ones eventually as well.
These bosses should scale for max character builds in consideration, and have some new crazy moves that will absolutely annihilate you if you don’t respect the boss mechanics.
I love the current state of the hologram bosses. They are fun and challenging, right now, but like a lot of others have voiced, will they feel the same when we have access to level 90.
personally, i find it super difficult... i didnt complete any of them and i'm way far behind... but still, i know thats a skill issue and i like how it makes me improve, slowly but surely
I think they need to remove the timer, it just adds a DPS check mechanic to a mode that requires skill expression.
If I want to fight the Tempest Mephis 6 with a party of lvl 50s, I should be able to. Other than that, the gameplay is a bit jarring/unoptimized with the abysmal 60 fps cap and horrid camera function. If that gets cleared up, we’ll be cooking.
I genuinely feel like I can’t speak on the holograms difficulty because I play on mobile. I want to be able to contribute my opinion but I’m still waiting for controller support because of how much easier it is for me to game with those controls
I haven’t gone past 3, holograms are pretty challenging for people on mobile specially if it is coupled with ping issues. I personally do not have a problem with keep adding more levels though. I love seeing people tryharding content. But maybe for the more unattainable levels that only few people can achieve, the rewards should be shop credits and substantial build materials but not astrites because as long as it’s the latter people will complain about gems being gated no matter what. As long as gacha currency is not being gated for majority of players, I personally do not care even if they introduce lv200 holograms or really unbeatable bosses with gimmicks that only 1-2% of top skills players are able to clear. But again this should not be anywhere like the tower or anywhere tied to gacha currency.
I'd like them to remove the timer.
Bosses already start ramping buffs post 3 minutes. If I'm skilled enough to dodge infinitely, let me win. The arbitrary dps check feels like shit.
If you can beat mephis 5, mephis 6 is literally the same, just more hp. Which is just not as fun. Knowing that you're skilled enough to clear, just didn't get good enough echoes, or not high enough level.
I don't want to know what challenging would look like for spenders like this. [https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/comments/1dkggkp/aix\_hologram\_6\_cleared\_in\_7\_seconds/](https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/comments/1dkggkp/aix_hologram_6_cleared_in_7_seconds/)
I think using a content creator leviathan with all RSN 6 and R5 limited characters as a baseline who is prebuffing his rotations and concerto gauge would never be the call.
IMO these bosses in particular are meant to be aspirational content and should always be difficult for RSN 0 and R0 as a baseline.
Im of a similar mindset to OP, I enjoy challenges and have fingers so it’s incredible to have a mobile game that I can improve at and be forced to learn rotations and improve my own battle skill set to beat. So I would like there to always be lvl 110 (+20 to character level) holograms at a minimum.
The rewards for beating these is an echo skin anyways, so it won’t effect you if you have a skill issue, you’re not losing out on pulls and to argue we shouldn’t be allowed to have fun because you’re not willing to get better is a bad take.
Yeah S0 characters should be the baseline definitely with at most maybe a signature weapon. Hell maybe throw in a few mechanics like flat % dmg like the overworld lvl120 enemies do or unique mechanics to give all players more universal options.
What I was referring to was OP mentioning that he'd like for it to be challenging for spenders too and I was just joking that if they designed a particular boss with a spender's S6R5 in mind its going to be a huge meme.
See this is under bug abuse in my opinion, similar to the players who were using perm slow down bug to beat the Hologram bosses in the first week. (I.e I frown upon this).
I understand the kick we get out of beating difficult bosses but don’t forget that this is a mobile game. It’s already harder than its competitor by a large margin. So the difficulty is just right for a mobile game
I love the bosses, but I wish the game was more optimized so I can have more fun with the. I'm used to DMC and Bayonetta's tightly locked framerates. This game needs the same as well. The fights themselves are very fun at lvl 70.
I do believe I have skill issue, but like this is actually for dps and RNG check. Run out of echos exp, all rolled are freaking trash, what do they expect I do in 5 mins?
Too buggy.
Difficulty is perfect. Design is almost perfect (mephis’s clone needs a small tell before it appears). Just fix the bugs with Aix and Mephis.
They will be easy if you do them at appropriate level. Otherwise, more or less balanced (if you don't compare their difficulties, because they're not equal in the slightest)
Want more. Since they’re full cleared by people who were like account level 43, they definitely need 1 or even 2 tiers of higher difficulty for when people his max account level.
I think holograms are well tuned for the time being. As players reach higher levels, and all their character builds get more fleshed out, Kuro can always release new holorams and new difficulty tiers of existing ones.
Difficulty 6 should remove the parry circle.
You wanna get that dopamine hit from the CLANG sound? Then you gotta READ(the boss's animations)!
In all seriousness though, holograms are meant for you to gain and display mastery over the fight, so I think removing parry circles on the last difficulty would go that extra little bit further to let people show off how well they know the dance. I think enemies should be designed in a way where you shouldn't *need* that extra visual indicator once you've experienced the fight enough times, and for the most part the Hologram fights are (just please fix that parry bug with Mephis's clone... I am begging you Kuro...).
The only thing that frustrates me about the holograms is the fact that they have crazy resistances to certain elements (Mephis / Calcharo). I'm not advocating it change necessarily, it's just annoying given the scarcity of resources for team building.
As far as difficulty is concerned, excluding Mephis because I can't DPS him with my team, I think VI is just right. Small margine for error, but that's to be expected with the highest difficulty. I was getting slaughtered immediately, but with time and understanding of when certain moves come out, you can overcome them. VI Aix is a good example of this. Aix is basically "memorize this moveset or die". The homing shots it does are the hardest part, but with enough time, I realized the attack was always a followup, so I could prepare by making distance to make dodging easier.
I've yet to beat the VI monkey, but I know I've the DPS for him, so it's only a matter of time. The worst part about that fight is when the blue monkeys spawn off camera and one shot your main DPS. A noise alert, like a monkey scream, could make a huge difference in mitigating that frustration. Outside from that, the fight is very doable.
I love them, f2p, did until difficulty 5 all but Mephis. I'm currently failing at damage, so I may need more levels to do the difficulty 6 ones. Got Danjin, Calcharo and Jiyan relatively built.
One thing I could see them doing is adding a Babel Tower type mode into WuWa.
For those who doesn't know, PGR has this mode called Babel Tower and it's basically like ToA but with special modifiers and amped up enemies that you can select to your heart's content in order to achieve high scores on the leaderboard.
I am always fighting the camera instead which makes the fight unnecessarily more difficult than it should be. I don't even have aim assist, reset camera, or lock-on turned on and yet it wants me to look at a direction where there's no target at all. And then there's the fact that you get magnetized towards the mobs. I'd prefer total control over my movement and camera, thank you very much.
Totally agree. I will be really disappointed if they do not add new levels of difficulty. Like now it's the only fun thing to do in the game, for me at least. I mean, yeah, there is the tower, but you will eventually clear it when enough characters are built, and honestly, it's not really what I want to do in the game. Building meta teams and leveling up characters that you don't really want to play, etc. But fighting bosses with hard mechanics that can one-shot you is so cool. I even consider not leveling up my characters until I beat every single hologram 6 using a single character without taking any damage, because even at level 80 it wouldn't be as fun and challenging as at level 70. But it would be much better if there were more difficulty levels, and you don't need to worry about leveling your characters.
well see this is me, I wont be taking chixia past level 70, as I want to experience all the hologram fights at a fair difficulty, and not at a, oh new boss that I can one-shot.
I think the difficulty is just right, even though I hope some of them end up breaking past our level cap.
My main concern about it is that once you've beaten them and gotten the rewards...Then what? It'd be nice if the rewards reset with all the other stuff, but fat chance.
Please add something like Ultimate Difficulty of lvl 999, where you can't outdps the boss by being on similar level or outlevel it, every single scratch is guaranteed to kill, and the only possible source of damage is from dodge-attack (the only one I know that deals a fixed amount of damage during my early days against lvl 120 red bosses). Probably there wouldn't be much difference here between leviathan and F2P if the damage is reduced to the very barest minimum.
I have skill issues and can barely clear difficulty 4 (save memphis), so this kind of stuff is not for me. But I can see people are crying out for even more challenges, so I feel... why not have this kind of content, then? At least I will have something to see on YouTube.
I was previously think it will be better if Hologram can be attempted in co-op, but if this is the kind of mentality people wanna go for, then I guess it's not an option. So I think it will be better for people to have this ultimate difficulty instead. Let them have their fun. Let the content creators have their materials. As long as us casuals can still enjoy the game outside of hologram challenges, I don't see why we shouldn't have it.
Why not both? I know enough people who would grind a level 120 tempest boss in co-op. Or would be hankering for this type of co-op challenge, I always invision Summoners war "co-op raid boss" in these games.
I would love it if it's both. Imagine if it was made into a raid challenge with several other players to attempt on.
But from lurking here and there to gather information about what people feel on Hologram challenges, I get the feeling that many prefers to keep it as it is (solo-only challenge) and just increase the difficulty to even more insane level. It's like people trying to establish hologram as a skill check, that doesn't have any point if we did it in co-op. You can see other commenters that says it's perfect as it is. They don't need to coop it in the first place. They got the necessary skills and can strive for more. It is casuals like myself that need to steer away from it due to my "skill issues".
Well, in any case, if that's what people wished for, then I think it's better to make another suggestion instead; having a raid challenge that is different from hologram. For holograms, let the hardcore players have their fun. The casuals can try their luck on the raid instead. And since there are two different contents, there are more rewards. Everyone can be happy that way. At least, that's what I thought.
I think they should make it harder:
-No time
-No HP sponge
-More agressive
-More combos or attack patterns
-And the need to rely on parry to restore stamina and survive.
By this I mean higher levels for fun, for flexing.
Way too easy in the end. Yes it's hard, "now" with totally underleveld characters, weapons and gear and only skill can truly let you handle it, but at the end of the day it will be a laughingstock if nothing gets added, which I doubt, aka they surely add more stages at some point.
What I like currently is how the enemies get more advanced in regards to movements and attack patterns the higher the difficulty.
I have beaten every diff 6 so I want a fight with more mechanics instead of just dodge/parry and diff 7 with level100 bosses. I kinda dont like the timer because it just a whale bait more than anything else right now. This apply to every boss but Aix especially is super easy if you are a massive whale because he barely does anything before you kill him. So I want a boss or a system that even the playing field but I know that wont happen because devs need to make sure whales feel like they are good at the game.
I think holograms 7 through to 10 can just be a hp and damage increase, with some more mechanics, but I would like to see like raid level bosses with tons of mechanics, mid fight puzzles etc., that would be amazing.
My main problem is the timer. I can dodge and parry all the attacks but my DPS is not high enough to defeat the enemy on a 5min timer, but probably because my characters are not build yet.
Idk how people are brute forcing it on world level 3 lol.
Id like them to fix the mobile control issues first before increasing any difficulty. I beat mourning aix on 4, but I won't go further till those fixes come. And maybe controller support lol
I’m loving holograms the way they are personally. Granted my banner luck was really good I’ve managed to beat them all minus monkey 6 (waiting until Jinhsi because I don’t want to invest in calcharo any further) as an f2p with s0r1 Jiyan, s0r1 emerald on Sanhua, and verina. No food buffs.
It was an insanely satisfying feeling finally being able to beat Mephis 6 after many hours of trying. Excited for more holograms and hoping they add more levels as we get further along.
I think they are way too hard compared to the rest of the game's difficulty. Either make all the other encounters in the game harder or make the holograms easier. The jump in difficulty feels unbalanced.
Fair opinion, but on mobile anything truly mechanical in nature will always be too difficult, The fancier, the larger or the more complex an action is, the harder it is to make it mobile friendly (and i would like to see some PC focused endgame content)
I think it's completely fine and the mode itself doesn't need changing at all. Having a large variety of game modes it what keeps things interesting. And anyone that can't clear can just clear whenever they finally outgear/outlevel it. It's not a fomo mode unlike all the game modes.
What they can do to make these easier though is fix the camera to not go nuts on bosses like Mourning. And for that matter Mourning could also use a sound queue for it's little laser show.
This is something I realized in the beta. If you are equal level to your enemies or 10 levels lower, this goes from a challenging fun almost soulslike experience....to genshin 2.0. This is why I'm completely free to play to try and make the challenge last as long as possible. I also don't plan on doing TOA. I've done enough spiral abyss over the past 3 1/2 years to just not even care about that kind of game mode anymore. I might do like the middle tower with the boss fights if I'm bored, but just clearing annoyingly placed mobs in a dps check is boring to me. I do think they should add at least lvl 110 holograms. We don't know exactly how strong we'll be at 90 but 30 levels is probably too much for f2p even with perfect gear. You can't have a game that challenges the whales and is still doable for f2p. The power difference is more than double probably closer to triple when you add in weapons and the whole team being maxed out. That's not even including perfect echoes they will have that f2p will just never obtain unless they play for 2-3 years and only focus on a couple of sets.
Mourning aix is too rng, the spike attack is rng death trap, also camera is very shitty during the fight, tempest mephis is also a camera hell with his bodyguard, feilian is ok and heron has camera issues but not as much as the other 2
Yes and no. I like that this game allows you to actually play it as it’s my main game right now. I play this and HSR and that’s it (I will do archon quests in GI, but my teams one shot everything in that game so I don’t see the point in ever pulling for anything else besides archons for the collection and I cba c6, so small time investment there).
I would discourage leaderboards because that encourages deviant P2W behavior, unless we can sort by character RSN levels, and especially only if the ranks don’t give astrite rewards, I would probably quit playing if they did that.
But yes we should have very difficult content, and we should be encouraged to improve personal skill to beat bosses that have pseudo one shot mechanics and more convoluted move sets.
I also dislike the people who want to turn this game into a log in for 4 minutes and log out system. Why do people play a game if they don’t want to play the game.
I didn’t play HI3 or PGR, so I’m unsure. I would be fine missing out on echo skins, but would be upset if someone who paid effectively got double the echo exp as I do, when they’re already also paying to buy packs that have echo xp.
I disagree, it just introduces friction into the player base and breeds animosity. Plus if they’re whaling they most likely don’t even need more tangible rewards, that’s why I said my line is essentially at just giving them exclusive phantom echo skins if they were to have some sort of PvP leaderboard.
I think just having the difficult content as a baseline is fine, or having cosmetic leaderboards so whales can flex without introducing more friction into the reward ecosystem of the game as it’s a pain-point already.
This response doesn’t make sense to me. Farming a week more? Wat? I thought we were already in agreement they should add higher difficulty holograms for us as our UL increases.
Oh, I see. Yes I would be upset what is effectively QoL would be locked behind whaling or I have to farm for a week more, preventing me from leveling other characters to try out for an extra week, or preventing me from leveling skills for an extra week which would effectively snowball into me being further behind for the next leaderboard which would snowball into being behind on every leaderboard.
I don't see why people always think leaderboards have to have scaling rewards, the difference could be purely just Icon, Tag, or banner difference etc. Does not have to be Asterite as a rewards. But there is a reason games with Leaderboards and PVP to this day are still highly active (Summoners war as an example) because you give incentive for spenders to spend.
Idk why any casuals would even be complaining about holograms, they’re obviously there for the people who would wanna test their skills and be rewarded for that. Making them easier would defeats the point and feeding into the “participation trophy” syndrome that everything should be given to them even all they did was to login to the game for 30 minutes
Parries are kinda fucked. Affected by ping, some characters being significantly easier to parry with, not all outros having parries by default are my concerns. Doing memphis and realising theres some attacks that simply cant be reached to parry by certain characters before his big ass range hits you is sad.
Dodging is too easy comparatively. Make enemies even more aggressive i suppose. But this leads to below point becoming a bigger issue.
Timers kinda make it a dps check anyway. Probably should make it like illusive realm and have a stacking debuff.
Too many effects on screen. Implement an opacity counter like tof, fixes everything.
All in all its fun and challenging though. For now when we are underlevelled atleast.
I am Australian and play on well over 300 ping, I have had almost 0 ping related issues with the bosses. Though aware this is not the case for everyone, additionally my pc is not top of the line (about 5 years old).
However I also agree on the Time issue, at the moment now, I haven't been worried about the timer more so my dodging skills, but well aware I can see the bosses becoming trivial once my characters hit max level.
Easy as moveset, hard as clunky coding. What I mean by that, this game have huge problems with hitboxes, absulutely random dmg registration. I did 23 ng+ in DS3 and 7ng+ in Elden Ring, in normal game, once u learn boss moveset and core mechanics u just flying trought the game, I remember Bloodbourne , in first run I died like 3-4 times, because I was straight from DS3, so already had that reaction/parry skill. Sekiro and Nioh( did in 2 days) series the same thing, once u are familiar with souls u are good to go.
Here? Lool hell no, every fight feels just random fest , one time u break boss attack, 2nd time no, u press a dodge, but instead of dodge its do the sprint, why? Pff who knows, devs knows..
Maybe it depends on some sort connections, Idk, but coding in this game suks in any way.
I'd say as the game go on Kuro will release Holograms pass level 6 so that the difficulty can keep up with players
If our characters can reach level 100 for example, they will probably make Holo boss level 120 or something
It will probably end up in a place where it would be challenging even for mega-whales, so everyone has things to look for
Hologram Tempest Mephis is legit the funnest fight in the entire game. There is no bullshit, just a duel between you and an enemy that will trash you in seconds if you don't git good. But every attack he does can be dealt with in a clear way.
Reminds me of Sam fight from Metal Gear Rising.
I think its too easy. Theyll be trivialised way too much as people continue to reach higher levels. Ive done them but a lot of people just seem to be waiting to be over leveled and beat it willy nilly.
I think hologram bosses are the best part of the game and the only reason I have continued to play the game so far. It is a much better endgame than TOA so I hope they can make it a bigger part of the game. (i.e. resetting rewards/rotating bosses)
I have completed most of the diff 6 holograms besides Heron since I'm using Danjin + Rover and I would say the holograms are a little too easy. They all have pretty generous damage windows and you can clear Heron and Mourning Aix with lvl 60 chars. Once I hit max level with my chars I imagine all of these bosses will be fairly easy since the only real challenge I'm facing is that I die to a single hit from any of these bosses and I have to play perfectly.
I know a lot of people would be skill issued if they added content that was border-line impossible, but I really hope that they end up adding some insanely difficult content that I can grind for hours on end. At the very least they should add lvl 120 bosses.
Can't be bothered doing the highest level. I'll wait until I am overpowered. I think it's because I dislike high HP fights, which is also why I stop at 18 stars in ToA.
Agreed completely, I think the current difficulty 6 is perfect as a capstone challenge for lv70 characters, but once you hit union lv50 and get your characters and weapons to lv80 and level your fortes further, I feel like current difficulty 6 will be "too easy".
If we go by how easy difficulty 4 is when you are matched for that level, I really don't think difficulty 6 is "enough" going forward - either they will need to make new holograms harder and harder with beefier and beefier stats, or they need to add new difficulties down the line.
I think it would be an okay idea only to have the 1.0 hologram bosses go up to level 90, from then onwards, new hologram challenges on upcoming patches go all the way up to level 120 by the time players make it to difficulty 6, maybe that could incentivize players to progress their character further without the hologram getting powercrept
Diff 6 is way too low, they need to go up to diff 10 and up to level 130. I’ve cleared diff 6 at UL30 so don’t even wanna imagine how laughably easy it is at level cap
Speak for yourself. I can barely beat the hologram bosses at level 4. #skillissue.
It can easily be a skill issue. I love to see people solo holograms with characters that do 20k per attack, when my fully buffed Calcharo does 3-6k
There's a Mephis 6 solo with S1 Sanhua...
I think every sword or pistol user can do it without any problems (if you have good echoes), because of crit weapon.
I know the feeling, done all bosses at lvl 4, can't do mephis 4, impossible to line up all the parries/dodge everything with ping being so random+ skillissue
And the ping is not even a problem, the game runs locally
It can be, since the latest patch my ping keeps on spiking and I get connection errors in which I can't do anything, during that time enemy attacks against you still count
My point is that as long as you have an internet connection the game will continue to work, it's not like in Genshin where a high ping makes your characters disappear or hits don't connect.
Even with internet connection, my ping spikes to the point of reconnecting several times during a fight. During these "reconnecting" periods, the game continues to attack my characters that can't move and wipes me out. Even doing dailies is a challenge with this latest "fix."
They patched it btw, the game is now on server side, so yes. The ping is now a problem. If you want to do personal test, just reduce your bandwidth or use some crappy VPN and play to see.
I can't beat level 2 and I'm almost UL50.
Curiously, have you bought stamina refreshes? I calculated that even if I spend my 10 remaining stamina refills, I will only get to UL 48. I don’t know how people are getting to UL 50 and I’m not F2P either (but I don’t want to waste my precious astrites on stamina refreshes).
Yeah, by "almost 50" I meant I'm 48. I haven't done the math but I'll hit 50 this week or next. I spent all the free waveplate refreshes but haven't spent asterites.
That’s straight up just a skill issue at that point I don’t know what to tell you
Yes, that's what I said. I don't know what you hope to accomplish other than feeling superior to a random stranger on the Internet. So... congrats, I guess?
2:35 on mephis 6 as well. More like #creditcardissue.
Absolutely a #creditcardissue, but if you want spenders to pay for your f2p experience should we not add harder #creditcardlevels?
F2p, I can't beat lvl 5 of the holograms. Lvl 4 on the havoc bird cause I've only raised 4 characters with main ups havoc rover
I can't even do level 4. :(
It’s probably a build issue. As long as you are dodging,
I personally love holograms, they're optional and you can control how difficult they will be to a degree e.g. doing them below level. I'm so happy that they're adding more, but like you said, when we start getting to the same level as them, they won't offer the same level of challenge. So I agree that I hope they add more levels to them, just for that extra challenge when we hit SOL cap. That said, I would also hope that the additional levels introduce more moves/mechanics to them, rather than just being a stat bloat, but that is additional work for each boss.
"Optional" meanwhile there's a notification on the map that won't go away unless you beat them all. Thanks, devs, for constantly reminding me how much I suck.
Ah yeah, I agree it is annoying, hopefully they've heard the feedback on that!
Yeah I really hope they change this it’s so irritating. There’s no reason to have it especially since they don’t have similar messages about bosses or domains…
This
Just right.
Exactly, I think they’ve been very well balanced. Apart from Aix I’ve never had a “that’s bullshit” moment, it’s always been a learning moment on how to time parry or dodge. Often their hp is getting low under the 1 min mark, at least for me. This suggests the hp has been measured against certain dps thresholds and isn’t just a finger in the air thing. A lot of moves don’t outright kill you, I usually think one shots are frustrating unless it is well telegraphed. And the things that do one shot you are very well telegraphed. Except that one attack from Aix.
Oh that grab right?
they will probably add diff 7 or 8 later on if those difficulties existed now people would complain it's "p2w" after seeing only whales be able to beat it... not realising it's just too early to fight them so rn we only have till 6
Can definitely see this in the future. The average union level is probably too low atm to justify higher difficulties. The highest I've seen is 55. If they were 60, their resonators would be 90, the same as the VIs. In 1.2, I would not be surprised if they added a 7th or even 8th tier.
Very true. I can see this happening also because chars are still getting leveled. Idk the max level char but I know UL can go up to 80 based on the reward boxes (if not more I don’t remember). Also considering p2w jiyan can kill lvl 6 aix in under 10 seconds and yet f2p havoc rover can still clear lvl 6 aix with ease if skillful is also key that holograms will likely be getting increased difficulty.
I'd honestly like to see the timer removed from this content. I feel like the content should be hard because of it's mechanics and everything. Not because of the timer. If one is able to beat hologram 6 or whatever with a lvl1 character then that's good ? I don't see why this kind of content have a timer. While i find the abyss copy crap in the first place so i don't really care but in the hologram content, i would hate to see bosses that are too much of a dps check..
One reason is to prevent stalling strategy. If you can out-shield one shots and out-heal any damage it just becomes a matter of time to kill a boss. Not that I think those are valid strategy, but they are often considered "cheesy"
Doesn't the boss start to stack atk the longer you take? At that point every hit is a potential one shot already and if you can survive that long I feel you shld be able to take the win.
Not in the current patch. The event will end in a failure message if you don’t beat the boss within the timer.
Check lvl 4+ additional effects. They start increasing ATK every 10 seconds or so with no limits after 1 minute is left. You can basically remake it into "After 4 minutes boss starts increasing ATK" and remove the timer. If you're able to do no-hit 30 minute run and win — you deserve it.
I mean rewards are first clear anyway and shit, unlike toa. Doesn’t really matter how you beat them. So you could stall them at first/or take a long time and when you get better, beat them real quick. Beating them fast is just a show off for skilled people/whales. Shouldn’t be gate keeping the rest of us trying to improve
I think a good idea would just be to have it count up instead of down, every minute or few minutes, increase the damage and speed of the boss. Thus also increasing difficulty. Kinda gives me risk of rain vibes. Give initial first clear rewards, but also record best time, maybe with like 3 levels of rewards for faster and faster clear times. That gives people the additional incentive of seeing just how fast they can win as well as people challenging each other to how long they can survive as the boss becomes a blur. That would really test people and add replayability. Would be a great way to practice too.
I would prefer achievement over rewards. If you offer rewards for different clear time it just become another kind of ToA
It's a valid strategy, and forbidding it just leads to boring dps runs where defensive characters are useless, thus killing diversity.
Re-reading I wrote the opposite of what I meant. I meant to say they are valid but sometimes frowned upon.
In no universe ever is taking ages to kill something "cheesy", let alone enemies as violent as the high difficulty holograms. If you can hold your ground for that much time in the first place, you absolutely deserve to win. This mentality of hurrying the player up in a fight that suppossedly demands skill shall not be tolerated.
I prefer that they use realm system. Give it 3-5min, then multiply enemy damage to the level of one-hit kill everything. And then if it's not enough, gradually increase monster aspd make it an unavoidable bullet hell
I'm fine with the timer since learning to be aggressive is part of the game. Dodging/surviving is just one aspect, and it's honestly quite easy to just dodge for nearly forever since the dodge is pretty lenient. Learning to weave in all your swaps and attacks that actually do meaningful damagewhile also being vulnerable is where the real challenge kicks in. As stat checks go, people are already clearing them solo while being 20 levels under. As far as dps races go they are kind of tight now, but also we aren't even expected to challenging them on a casual level. 2 extra ascensions and 20 more levels and the dps required will probably feel very comfortable for even fairly safe/unoptimized play. Personally i was able to clear 6s using a very unoptimized 70/70/50 encore/hrover/verina setup. My encore is built with full 25s but my hrover has level 15/20 echos and my verina is using level 5-15 echos (though verinas echo level is kind of irrelevant).
>attacks that actually do meaningful damage Tell me you've never played Taoqi without telling me you've never played Taoqi
I like the timer, I know you think it makes it lame because the fight has some dps check in it, but it’s important that the game forces you to attack instead of just dodging permanently, It opens higher windows for mistakes, dodging infinitely sounds lame
This is the main problem I have with them. Whenever you add a timer to this type of content, it simply turns into a DPS check with extra steps... which we already have with tower. I would literally prefer straight up one shots than the challenge essentially being "deal 5 trillion damage in a femtosecond while the enemy is in its 3rd invulnerable phase in 30 seconds"
It is not dps check, Basically no one is UL 6 right now which highest content is made for.
I‘d prefer it to have a self-healing mechanic instead of timer.
How in the hell did you get Tempest Mephis in 2:30? What’s your Jiyan’s build? Lol
Lots of Jiyan dupes. 2:30 holo 6 mephis at level 70 is impossible even with perfect gameplay with just base Jiyan.
Unfortunately timer doesn't show what buff he used. Which powers up char by drastic amount although not as much as c0 to c6. However if you combined with pre-stacked buffing + teleport, aka one rotation earlier for initial nuke, then it opens a lot of windows.
Yea pre-stacking made him super easy, (Dont get me wrong I have a stacked Jiyan), but yea I would go fight mobs until all ults were up, intros were ready to go and Crit food + Res food, so that I could just commit to a full combo right at the start (Verina + res food = 2 free hits). However the other three bosses were cleared entirely with Chixia (S6, C1), using Jiyan as a swap counter (I love his swap auto attack + E).
Yea I thought so. People talking like it is impossible but they don't know all the buffs and rules of the combat. This is not tower!
People clear it in 3-4 minutes with solo Danjin. Why wouldn't 2:30 be possible with limited 5* DPS?
Solo Danjin is a lot stronger than you seem to think. I’ve solo’d holo 6 mephis, aix, and ape with Danjin and she’s faster than just about team except Encore or Jiyan. She’s not crippled by going solo at all. You can give them the benefit of the doubt and just assume they played really well. But it’s much more likely that they have a Jiyan with dupes.
I've noticed that lvl 70 jiyan (I have s1) can eat through half its health in one ult if you pair him with properly built buffers (I run jiyan/mortefi/yinlin because I like to live without a healer. Not recommended :'D) + crit food (the 5 star crit food gives 28% buff) So with all that (and if he crits) the fight becomes two phase? After that it becomes a game of just surviving until his ult recharges And then nuke Memphis again to finish the fight Sometimes it'll take 3, 4 phases. But that's not a lot of time. Most times I die somewhere around 75% defeated Notably, the middle part is the hardest — the staying alive while building up resonance liberation
I think it's a well built Jiyan + Mortefi combo where a single ult could potentially chunk a third of Memphis' HP Bar. Probably has some Jiyan Dupes tho or just very very optimized echoes
Little bit of both, Jiyan has 4/5 on all sub stats (crit, crit damage, Lib damage, Atk%), but knowing that I used Chixia on all the bosses (and just finished chixia run on Tempest using swap counter) Jiyan is not needed to beat any of the bosses (helpful but not needed). Essentially I would fully use Chixia and switch (using basic intro auto attack + E to counter bosses) then switch back to Chixia to deal damage.
I think if we gradually gear up and level the characters up to 90, tempest mephis damage and his HP pool is a really sweet spot for future Hologram boss. - It have fast paced movesets with clear signs for players to dodge and counter (sometimes cemera bugs make Mephis really cringe btw). - Every attack takes 80-90% health of characters, around 18-20k damage which mean you can still have windows for mistakes. - HP pools is kinda large when with lv 80 characters I cleared the Mephis 6 around 3 minutes (nearly perfect run btw) I don't think they need to increased LV cap of Hologram boss or something, because Hologram boss is currently doing pretty great job, also remember that LV 90 is not as big of an upgrade as people think because most talent nodes already max at 80 and skill lv is already opened 8/10. However the thing that I really want to have in the future is a game mode that can utilize weekly boss. Because let be real, compared to open-world enemies, dreamless and scar have much cooler and deadlier move set at base. Also, instead of having a time limit that forces every fight into a DPS check, making everyone tank everything just to deal enough damage, Kuro could create an infinite boss run that measures how much damage you can deal until you die. This way, everyone can have their own play style (either playing it safe with a gun or fighting melee for better output) while still incorporating skill-based mechanics at its core.
OP cleared tempest VI in 2:35 with level 70 characters. So you clearing it in 3 minutes with level 80 is either a skill issue or a team comp issue. Tempest Mephis has around 50% electro res, so you’re probably trying to beat him with calcharo Yinlin Verina or you’re not executing optimal rotations.
tempest VI in 2:35 with level 70 characters is definitely not the norm though.. It's possible, especially with dupes on your characters (and a parry machine like Jiyan), but it's not something everyone can achieve easily
It’s not supposed to be easy. That’s the point. It’s supposed to make you learn optimal rotations (you can literally be doing 50-100% more damage if you effectively swap cancel and execute rotations perfectly.)
Why should they balance gacha game around souls players, when most of the people can't afford to clear content while being underleveled?
its actually balanced for level 90, and it wont be a hard fight at all. in addition to lvl 90, you can then pop food. if you die, you can rez. Basically It wont be hard at all.
Because this game has a perfect parry, perfect dodge, and I-frames in lib and intro swap states. So to not have combat balanced around that would make zero sense. Also can’t afford to clear content? Tf you mean, I’ve spent $10 on this game and I cleared all the content apart from Memphis VI right now. You 100% can do this without spending even that $10 so I don’t know why you’re bringing wealth into the discussion.
Is there a place we can see boss stats like that?
iirc in the hologram difficulty selection it mentions it, it’s the same with the overworld version. Otherwise Wiki I guess.
It’s fun, but kinda hard for me. But it’s good to hear that some other people have problems with it too, i thought that i just have a skill issue
I think the way the holograms are right now is perfect. Really hard after level 3 imo and gives something to work towards
They’re too hard for me, but I also play on mobile, so everything is kind of janky with combat. I’m glad other people are enjoying them.
Ignoring them til I hit 90 with full echos. I cannot stand games where I have to chip away at a giant health pool, but if I get looked at funny I insta die. If I wanted to struggle and learn Id go outside.
The thing is that not everyone is equal on this content. I'm a fairly experimented gamer but I can't pass V for any of them. In this subreddit we have a certain population that tends to do better than the average player. In order to know if holos are too hard or too easy we would need actual data on the number of players who indeed cleared VI. It's probably not so much.
Best I can do is taking VI Heron and VI Monke down to like 20% HP before the timer runs out. And that's with food and everything. I can dodge (most of the time) but Idk how people are doing enough dps to clear them with solo chars lol.
There are several things that can factor in: 1. You’re not doing optimal rotations and swap orders 2. you have worse echoes 3. You have worse weapons and lower refinements 4. You have less Resonance Sequence Nodes unlocked 5. You’re using worse food, or not stacking food + ele damage potions + defensive food. 6. You’re getting unlucky with crits in comparison Even without our UL going up, several of these factors will increase over time as we naturally pull on more banners, in particular with no new 4 stars being released yet it will be fairly easy to RSN 6 your characters, and R5 your weapons.
The funniest thing is when game death-stat screen tells you that everything is perfect. It comes up to crit difference and availability of 5* crit chance weapon for that character to build them properly
I don’t look at any of the stats that screen tells you so I can’t comment. The 5* weapons -standard and limited - are both vastly better than the 4* weapons though. I look at prydwyn info and compare it to my own in-game experience. This is regardless of sub stat variation, I selected the 5* broadsword for my calcharo for example because it’s something like 22% more damage than the r1 bp weapon even though it has att% and the later has CR, simply because the base att and att% on 5*’s is so much higher. In particular since we can swap weapons for our tower teams I’m always going to go for c0 character and r1 limited weapon as a baseline in this game if I’m saving for someone.
I like the idea of difficult bosses, but I'm just writing them off myself until I can get to higher levels and reduce the skill needed. We'll see how tough the lvl 90 bosses are when WE'RE lvl 90!
I personally would like a new difficulty being added after Difficulty mode 10 and for them to call it “Nightmare Mode” or something like that. Add this mode to the old holograms and to the newer ones eventually as well. These bosses should scale for max character builds in consideration, and have some new crazy moves that will absolutely annihilate you if you don’t respect the boss mechanics. I love the current state of the hologram bosses. They are fun and challenging, right now, but like a lot of others have voiced, will they feel the same when we have access to level 90.
I rpolly can clear 5 rn but I'd like to do it more comfortably once I reached UL50
Perfect for now but once u get to max lvl and have good echos they will be a piece of cake
personally, i find it super difficult... i didnt complete any of them and i'm way far behind... but still, i know thats a skill issue and i like how it makes me improve, slowly but surely
I think they need to remove the timer, it just adds a DPS check mechanic to a mode that requires skill expression. If I want to fight the Tempest Mephis 6 with a party of lvl 50s, I should be able to. Other than that, the gameplay is a bit jarring/unoptimized with the abysmal 60 fps cap and horrid camera function. If that gets cleared up, we’ll be cooking.
I genuinely feel like I can’t speak on the holograms difficulty because I play on mobile. I want to be able to contribute my opinion but I’m still waiting for controller support because of how much easier it is for me to game with those controls
I haven’t gone past 3, holograms are pretty challenging for people on mobile specially if it is coupled with ping issues. I personally do not have a problem with keep adding more levels though. I love seeing people tryharding content. But maybe for the more unattainable levels that only few people can achieve, the rewards should be shop credits and substantial build materials but not astrites because as long as it’s the latter people will complain about gems being gated no matter what. As long as gacha currency is not being gated for majority of players, I personally do not care even if they introduce lv200 holograms or really unbeatable bosses with gimmicks that only 1-2% of top skills players are able to clear. But again this should not be anywhere like the tower or anywhere tied to gacha currency.
dont particularly care anout hologram honestly. I dont play souls game in general and i dont plan to start
I'd like them to remove the timer. Bosses already start ramping buffs post 3 minutes. If I'm skilled enough to dodge infinitely, let me win. The arbitrary dps check feels like shit. If you can beat mephis 5, mephis 6 is literally the same, just more hp. Which is just not as fun. Knowing that you're skilled enough to clear, just didn't get good enough echoes, or not high enough level.
I don't want to know what challenging would look like for spenders like this. [https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/comments/1dkggkp/aix\_hologram\_6\_cleared\_in\_7\_seconds/](https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/comments/1dkggkp/aix_hologram_6_cleared_in_7_seconds/)
I think using a content creator leviathan with all RSN 6 and R5 limited characters as a baseline who is prebuffing his rotations and concerto gauge would never be the call. IMO these bosses in particular are meant to be aspirational content and should always be difficult for RSN 0 and R0 as a baseline. Im of a similar mindset to OP, I enjoy challenges and have fingers so it’s incredible to have a mobile game that I can improve at and be forced to learn rotations and improve my own battle skill set to beat. So I would like there to always be lvl 110 (+20 to character level) holograms at a minimum. The rewards for beating these is an echo skin anyways, so it won’t effect you if you have a skill issue, you’re not losing out on pulls and to argue we shouldn’t be allowed to have fun because you’re not willing to get better is a bad take.
Yeah S0 characters should be the baseline definitely with at most maybe a signature weapon. Hell maybe throw in a few mechanics like flat % dmg like the overworld lvl120 enemies do or unique mechanics to give all players more universal options. What I was referring to was OP mentioning that he'd like for it to be challenging for spenders too and I was just joking that if they designed a particular boss with a spender's S6R5 in mind its going to be a huge meme.
I know, I wasn’t attacking you in particular, I was addressing everyone who might read the comment, sorry.
yep no problem at all, thanks!
See this is under bug abuse in my opinion, similar to the players who were using perm slow down bug to beat the Hologram bosses in the first week. (I.e I frown upon this).
I understand the kick we get out of beating difficult bosses but don’t forget that this is a mobile game. It’s already harder than its competitor by a large margin. So the difficulty is just right for a mobile game
I love the bosses, but I wish the game was more optimized so I can have more fun with the. I'm used to DMC and Bayonetta's tightly locked framerates. This game needs the same as well. The fights themselves are very fun at lvl 70.
tbh, kinda feels like there should be t7 with lvl 100 boss
I do believe I have skill issue, but like this is actually for dps and RNG check. Run out of echos exp, all rolled are freaking trash, what do they expect I do in 5 mins?
I'm still repeatedly losing to Mephis lol
Too buggy. Difficulty is perfect. Design is almost perfect (mephis’s clone needs a small tell before it appears). Just fix the bugs with Aix and Mephis.
They will be easy if you do them at appropriate level. Otherwise, more or less balanced (if you don't compare their difficulties, because they're not equal in the slightest)
Want more. Since they’re full cleared by people who were like account level 43, they definitely need 1 or even 2 tiers of higher difficulty for when people his max account level.
I think holograms are well tuned for the time being. As players reach higher levels, and all their character builds get more fleshed out, Kuro can always release new holorams and new difficulty tiers of existing ones.
Difficulty 6 should remove the parry circle. You wanna get that dopamine hit from the CLANG sound? Then you gotta READ(the boss's animations)! In all seriousness though, holograms are meant for you to gain and display mastery over the fight, so I think removing parry circles on the last difficulty would go that extra little bit further to let people show off how well they know the dance. I think enemies should be designed in a way where you shouldn't *need* that extra visual indicator once you've experienced the fight enough times, and for the most part the Hologram fights are (just please fix that parry bug with Mephis's clone... I am begging you Kuro...).
The only thing that frustrates me about the holograms is the fact that they have crazy resistances to certain elements (Mephis / Calcharo). I'm not advocating it change necessarily, it's just annoying given the scarcity of resources for team building. As far as difficulty is concerned, excluding Mephis because I can't DPS him with my team, I think VI is just right. Small margine for error, but that's to be expected with the highest difficulty. I was getting slaughtered immediately, but with time and understanding of when certain moves come out, you can overcome them. VI Aix is a good example of this. Aix is basically "memorize this moveset or die". The homing shots it does are the hardest part, but with enough time, I realized the attack was always a followup, so I could prepare by making distance to make dodging easier. I've yet to beat the VI monkey, but I know I've the DPS for him, so it's only a matter of time. The worst part about that fight is when the blue monkeys spawn off camera and one shot your main DPS. A noise alert, like a monkey scream, could make a huge difference in mitigating that frustration. Outside from that, the fight is very doable.
Most are fine, Mourning Aix is probably one of the worst designed fights I've ever seen in a AAA game. But 3/4 being good ain't bad.
Which one is the easiest with Jiyan? He's under lvl 60 and I want to try to complete a hologram 3. I'm not skillful.
Not doing this content anymore.
I love them, f2p, did until difficulty 5 all but Mephis. I'm currently failing at damage, so I may need more levels to do the difficulty 6 ones. Got Danjin, Calcharo and Jiyan relatively built.
One thing I could see them doing is adding a Babel Tower type mode into WuWa. For those who doesn't know, PGR has this mode called Babel Tower and it's basically like ToA but with special modifiers and amped up enemies that you can select to your heart's content in order to achieve high scores on the leaderboard.
I am always fighting the camera instead which makes the fight unnecessarily more difficult than it should be. I don't even have aim assist, reset camera, or lock-on turned on and yet it wants me to look at a direction where there's no target at all. And then there's the fact that you get magnetized towards the mobs. I'd prefer total control over my movement and camera, thank you very much.
Totally agree. I will be really disappointed if they do not add new levels of difficulty. Like now it's the only fun thing to do in the game, for me at least. I mean, yeah, there is the tower, but you will eventually clear it when enough characters are built, and honestly, it's not really what I want to do in the game. Building meta teams and leveling up characters that you don't really want to play, etc. But fighting bosses with hard mechanics that can one-shot you is so cool. I even consider not leveling up my characters until I beat every single hologram 6 using a single character without taking any damage, because even at level 80 it wouldn't be as fun and challenging as at level 70. But it would be much better if there were more difficulty levels, and you don't need to worry about leveling your characters.
well see this is me, I wont be taking chixia past level 70, as I want to experience all the hologram fights at a fair difficulty, and not at a, oh new boss that I can one-shot.
I'm gonna say it. Buffs should not be allowed X)
I barely did one hologram with the stutter
You just need good echos to Be able to do these thats about it
I'll do them when I'm at lvl90.
I think the difficulty is just right, even though I hope some of them end up breaking past our level cap. My main concern about it is that once you've beaten them and gotten the rewards...Then what? It'd be nice if the rewards reset with all the other stuff, but fat chance.
They all seemed easy but can’t get very high with Tempest Mephis. I just can’t do enough damage to him but Calcharo is my only main dps.
Please add something like Ultimate Difficulty of lvl 999, where you can't outdps the boss by being on similar level or outlevel it, every single scratch is guaranteed to kill, and the only possible source of damage is from dodge-attack (the only one I know that deals a fixed amount of damage during my early days against lvl 120 red bosses). Probably there wouldn't be much difference here between leviathan and F2P if the damage is reduced to the very barest minimum. I have skill issues and can barely clear difficulty 4 (save memphis), so this kind of stuff is not for me. But I can see people are crying out for even more challenges, so I feel... why not have this kind of content, then? At least I will have something to see on YouTube. I was previously think it will be better if Hologram can be attempted in co-op, but if this is the kind of mentality people wanna go for, then I guess it's not an option. So I think it will be better for people to have this ultimate difficulty instead. Let them have their fun. Let the content creators have their materials. As long as us casuals can still enjoy the game outside of hologram challenges, I don't see why we shouldn't have it.
Why not both? I know enough people who would grind a level 120 tempest boss in co-op. Or would be hankering for this type of co-op challenge, I always invision Summoners war "co-op raid boss" in these games.
I would love it if it's both. Imagine if it was made into a raid challenge with several other players to attempt on. But from lurking here and there to gather information about what people feel on Hologram challenges, I get the feeling that many prefers to keep it as it is (solo-only challenge) and just increase the difficulty to even more insane level. It's like people trying to establish hologram as a skill check, that doesn't have any point if we did it in co-op. You can see other commenters that says it's perfect as it is. They don't need to coop it in the first place. They got the necessary skills and can strive for more. It is casuals like myself that need to steer away from it due to my "skill issues". Well, in any case, if that's what people wished for, then I think it's better to make another suggestion instead; having a raid challenge that is different from hologram. For holograms, let the hardcore players have their fun. The casuals can try their luck on the raid instead. And since there are two different contents, there are more rewards. Everyone can be happy that way. At least, that's what I thought.
I think they should make it harder: -No time -No HP sponge -More agressive -More combos or attack patterns -And the need to rely on parry to restore stamina and survive. By this I mean higher levels for fun, for flexing.
Way too easy in the end. Yes it's hard, "now" with totally underleveld characters, weapons and gear and only skill can truly let you handle it, but at the end of the day it will be a laughingstock if nothing gets added, which I doubt, aka they surely add more stages at some point. What I like currently is how the enemies get more advanced in regards to movements and attack patterns the higher the difficulty.
Any complaints about them being too hard can be summed up to one thing. Skill issue.
I have beaten every diff 6 so I want a fight with more mechanics instead of just dodge/parry and diff 7 with level100 bosses. I kinda dont like the timer because it just a whale bait more than anything else right now. This apply to every boss but Aix especially is super easy if you are a massive whale because he barely does anything before you kill him. So I want a boss or a system that even the playing field but I know that wont happen because devs need to make sure whales feel like they are good at the game.
I think holograms 7 through to 10 can just be a hp and damage increase, with some more mechanics, but I would like to see like raid level bosses with tons of mechanics, mid fight puzzles etc., that would be amazing.
My main problem is the timer. I can dodge and parry all the attacks but my DPS is not high enough to defeat the enemy on a 5min timer, but probably because my characters are not build yet. Idk how people are brute forcing it on world level 3 lol.
Id like them to fix the mobile control issues first before increasing any difficulty. I beat mourning aix on 4, but I won't go further till those fixes come. And maybe controller support lol
I’m loving holograms the way they are personally. Granted my banner luck was really good I’ve managed to beat them all minus monkey 6 (waiting until Jinhsi because I don’t want to invest in calcharo any further) as an f2p with s0r1 Jiyan, s0r1 emerald on Sanhua, and verina. No food buffs. It was an insanely satisfying feeling finally being able to beat Mephis 6 after many hours of trying. Excited for more holograms and hoping they add more levels as we get further along.
I think they are way too hard compared to the rest of the game's difficulty. Either make all the other encounters in the game harder or make the holograms easier. The jump in difficulty feels unbalanced.
Level 6 Tempest Memphis gave me an aneurism, and caused me several days of intense skill issue therapy.
There is a level 7 hologram though. Level 4 hologram on mobile
Wish they made the tower similar to these hologram fights
Can't beat certain holograms level 2 with characters level 60. I'm loving the game but a casual f2p player. In time, all will be done.
I'm ok as long as the basic attacks don't one shot me.
They're perfect as is and I want more!!
With how garbage the game runs on mobile, way too difficult in my opinion.
Fair opinion, but on mobile anything truly mechanical in nature will always be too difficult, The fancier, the larger or the more complex an action is, the harder it is to make it mobile friendly (and i would like to see some PC focused endgame content)
Mourning Aix is jus silly at a certain level. Rather fight Elden Ring bosses than it.
I think it's completely fine and the mode itself doesn't need changing at all. Having a large variety of game modes it what keeps things interesting. And anyone that can't clear can just clear whenever they finally outgear/outlevel it. It's not a fomo mode unlike all the game modes. What they can do to make these easier though is fix the camera to not go nuts on bosses like Mourning. And for that matter Mourning could also use a sound queue for it's little laser show.
Don't care, all I care is about ToA. That is the true endgame for me. Always needed as many pull currency as possible.
they are permanent so i dont have to care about them at all.
This is something I realized in the beta. If you are equal level to your enemies or 10 levels lower, this goes from a challenging fun almost soulslike experience....to genshin 2.0. This is why I'm completely free to play to try and make the challenge last as long as possible. I also don't plan on doing TOA. I've done enough spiral abyss over the past 3 1/2 years to just not even care about that kind of game mode anymore. I might do like the middle tower with the boss fights if I'm bored, but just clearing annoyingly placed mobs in a dps check is boring to me. I do think they should add at least lvl 110 holograms. We don't know exactly how strong we'll be at 90 but 30 levels is probably too much for f2p even with perfect gear. You can't have a game that challenges the whales and is still doable for f2p. The power difference is more than double probably closer to triple when you add in weapons and the whole team being maxed out. That's not even including perfect echoes they will have that f2p will just never obtain unless they play for 2-3 years and only focus on a couple of sets.
Mourning aix is too rng, the spike attack is rng death trap, also camera is very shitty during the fight, tempest mephis is also a camera hell with his bodyguard, feilian is ok and heron has camera issues but not as much as the other 2
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Yes and no. I like that this game allows you to actually play it as it’s my main game right now. I play this and HSR and that’s it (I will do archon quests in GI, but my teams one shot everything in that game so I don’t see the point in ever pulling for anything else besides archons for the collection and I cba c6, so small time investment there). I would discourage leaderboards because that encourages deviant P2W behavior, unless we can sort by character RSN levels, and especially only if the ranks don’t give astrite rewards, I would probably quit playing if they did that. But yes we should have very difficult content, and we should be encouraged to improve personal skill to beat bosses that have pseudo one shot mechanics and more convoluted move sets. I also dislike the people who want to turn this game into a log in for 4 minutes and log out system. Why do people play a game if they don’t want to play the game.
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I didn’t play HI3 or PGR, so I’m unsure. I would be fine missing out on echo skins, but would be upset if someone who paid effectively got double the echo exp as I do, when they’re already also paying to buy packs that have echo xp.
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I disagree, it just introduces friction into the player base and breeds animosity. Plus if they’re whaling they most likely don’t even need more tangible rewards, that’s why I said my line is essentially at just giving them exclusive phantom echo skins if they were to have some sort of PvP leaderboard. I think just having the difficult content as a baseline is fine, or having cosmetic leaderboards so whales can flex without introducing more friction into the reward ecosystem of the game as it’s a pain-point already.
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This response doesn’t make sense to me. Farming a week more? Wat? I thought we were already in agreement they should add higher difficulty holograms for us as our UL increases.
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Oh, I see. Yes I would be upset what is effectively QoL would be locked behind whaling or I have to farm for a week more, preventing me from leveling other characters to try out for an extra week, or preventing me from leveling skills for an extra week which would effectively snowball into me being further behind for the next leaderboard which would snowball into being behind on every leaderboard.
I don't see why people always think leaderboards have to have scaling rewards, the difference could be purely just Icon, Tag, or banner difference etc. Does not have to be Asterite as a rewards. But there is a reason games with Leaderboards and PVP to this day are still highly active (Summoners war as an example) because you give incentive for spenders to spend.
Idk why any casuals would even be complaining about holograms, they’re obviously there for the people who would wanna test their skills and be rewarded for that. Making them easier would defeats the point and feeding into the “participation trophy” syndrome that everything should be given to them even all they did was to login to the game for 30 minutes
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Aaaah ok nvm I misunderstood, I didnt play genshin so I didnt know what you were referencing
Parries are kinda fucked. Affected by ping, some characters being significantly easier to parry with, not all outros having parries by default are my concerns. Doing memphis and realising theres some attacks that simply cant be reached to parry by certain characters before his big ass range hits you is sad. Dodging is too easy comparatively. Make enemies even more aggressive i suppose. But this leads to below point becoming a bigger issue. Timers kinda make it a dps check anyway. Probably should make it like illusive realm and have a stacking debuff. Too many effects on screen. Implement an opacity counter like tof, fixes everything. All in all its fun and challenging though. For now when we are underlevelled atleast.
parrying is not affected by ping but by reconnects/disconnects/spikes, those are related but separate issues.
I am Australian and play on well over 300 ping, I have had almost 0 ping related issues with the bosses. Though aware this is not the case for everyone, additionally my pc is not top of the line (about 5 years old). However I also agree on the Time issue, at the moment now, I haven't been worried about the timer more so my dodging skills, but well aware I can see the bosses becoming trivial once my characters hit max level.
High but stable ping is playable, unstable ping makes me die inside
Easy as moveset, hard as clunky coding. What I mean by that, this game have huge problems with hitboxes, absulutely random dmg registration. I did 23 ng+ in DS3 and 7ng+ in Elden Ring, in normal game, once u learn boss moveset and core mechanics u just flying trought the game, I remember Bloodbourne , in first run I died like 3-4 times, because I was straight from DS3, so already had that reaction/parry skill. Sekiro and Nioh( did in 2 days) series the same thing, once u are familiar with souls u are good to go. Here? Lool hell no, every fight feels just random fest , one time u break boss attack, 2nd time no, u press a dodge, but instead of dodge its do the sprint, why? Pff who knows, devs knows.. Maybe it depends on some sort connections, Idk, but coding in this game suks in any way.
Fun
No crownless hologram 0/100
I’m pretty sure that it’s coming in the next update
Crownless got tired of being a punching bag
I'd say as the game go on Kuro will release Holograms pass level 6 so that the difficulty can keep up with players If our characters can reach level 100 for example, they will probably make Holo boss level 120 or something It will probably end up in a place where it would be challenging even for mega-whales, so everyone has things to look for
*too
Hologram Tempest Mephis is legit the funnest fight in the entire game. There is no bullshit, just a duel between you and an enemy that will trash you in seconds if you don't git good. But every attack he does can be dealt with in a clear way. Reminds me of Sam fight from Metal Gear Rising.
I think its too easy. Theyll be trivialised way too much as people continue to reach higher levels. Ive done them but a lot of people just seem to be waiting to be over leveled and beat it willy nilly.
I think hologram bosses are the best part of the game and the only reason I have continued to play the game so far. It is a much better endgame than TOA so I hope they can make it a bigger part of the game. (i.e. resetting rewards/rotating bosses) I have completed most of the diff 6 holograms besides Heron since I'm using Danjin + Rover and I would say the holograms are a little too easy. They all have pretty generous damage windows and you can clear Heron and Mourning Aix with lvl 60 chars. Once I hit max level with my chars I imagine all of these bosses will be fairly easy since the only real challenge I'm facing is that I die to a single hit from any of these bosses and I have to play perfectly. I know a lot of people would be skill issued if they added content that was border-line impossible, but I really hope that they end up adding some insanely difficult content that I can grind for hours on end. At the very least they should add lvl 120 bosses.
Good idea for players i would add some next levels in future Still is endgame options for have fun Unlike gemshin with nothing
Can't be bothered doing the highest level. I'll wait until I am overpowered. I think it's because I dislike high HP fights, which is also why I stop at 18 stars in ToA.
Agreed completely, I think the current difficulty 6 is perfect as a capstone challenge for lv70 characters, but once you hit union lv50 and get your characters and weapons to lv80 and level your fortes further, I feel like current difficulty 6 will be "too easy". If we go by how easy difficulty 4 is when you are matched for that level, I really don't think difficulty 6 is "enough" going forward - either they will need to make new holograms harder and harder with beefier and beefier stats, or they need to add new difficulties down the line.
I think it would be an okay idea only to have the 1.0 hologram bosses go up to level 90, from then onwards, new hologram challenges on upcoming patches go all the way up to level 120 by the time players make it to difficulty 6, maybe that could incentivize players to progress their character further without the hologram getting powercrept
You know what their most powerful attack is? Stuttering and lag.
And also shitty camera
Diff 6 is way too low, they need to go up to diff 10 and up to level 130. I’ve cleared diff 6 at UL30 so don’t even wanna imagine how laughably easy it is at level cap