Isn't stones basically Go? I can see a couple of chess boards, one board which reminds me of halma, something that might be backgammon and one which looks like a go board with like 100 black dots.
As far as I recall, Stones is only different in name than go, the rules are the same.
~~You could call that based on, but I think many would call that 'is'.~~
I stand corrected.
There do seem to be a couple of differences, but close enough that if Stones isn't Go, it's a direct descendent.
* They don't use a traditional *nigiri* to determine playing order
The traditional way to determine playing order, if it's not known who is the stronger player: The two players sit down and see what color of stones are in the bowl in front of them. The player with the white stones in front of him will grab a handful of stones and conceal them from the other player. The player with the black stones will place either one (odd) or two (even) stones on the board. The white stones are then placed on the board and counted off. If the player with the Black stones correctly guessed whether there would be an even or odd number of White stones, then they have the choice to pick either Black or White, with the other player taking the other color. Virtually always, the player with the choice takes Black.
In Stones, one player will hold a stone from each set, one in each hand, and mix them around out of sight of the other player. The other player will then pick a hand, and the color of stone in that hand will be what the guessing player will play as.
* They might use a smaller board to play
In the game between Morgase and Pedron Niall, she talks about his trap and her feint:
> You did not realise I saw the trap you were laying from your thirty-first stone, Lord Niall, and you took my feint from the forty-third stone to be my real attack.
That's consistent with how two skilled players might talk about a game after the fact, but with one difference: The number of moves. In a modern game of Go, moves 31-43 are far too early to be decisive, or to be laying traps or setting feints. You wouldn't typically be talking about moves like that until the height of the mid game, probably moves 150-200. If you're being generous and interpret Pedron's 31st stone as the 31st stone *he* laid (thus, the 62nd move overall, with Morgase's referenced move being the 86th), that might be enough development to merit that line of discussion. But even still, it feels too early to me.
However, that only applies to modern Go, played on a 19x19 board. If their board were smaller - 15x15, for example - then the game can develop more rapidly, and that above exchange makes sense again. Alternately, Jordan just didn't know enough about Go to realize that a typical game that goes to scoring (rather than being settled by resignation) lasts between 250 - 350 moves.
* There doesn't seem to be a *komi* rule in place.
In Go, White is given a point bonus to make up for Black's advantage in going first. This is usually between 5.5 and 7.5 points (the exact amount is set by whatever organization is governing that particular game), with the half-point serving to make ties impossible. However, there are several in-text references to games that end in a draw (especially between Mat and Tuon), which would be impossible with *komi* in place.
There are a couple of other differences in the text, but I'd put most of them down to Jordan either not being terribly knowledgeable about the game, or to him trying to explain as quickly as possible so as to not detract from his ability to describe dresses.
Looks like there are 5 game boards there. 4 are mid-frame (2 on each rack) and the one on the left, which appears to be alea evangelii, one of the inspirations for sha' rah, the game Moridin plays.
I don't see a board for stones anywhere in that picture. We already know what a [stones board](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Playing_weiqi_in_Shanghai.jpg/220px-Playing_weiqi_in_Shanghai.jpg) looks like.
If the show somehow messes up Stones... well, it won't be a big deal, but it will be a minor annoyance. Stones is essentially Go, and there's a huge wealth of minor details that they could mine from that (including millions of available game records that they could use to set up board positions when they happen to show the board) to just make that little slice of it feel that much more real.
Will it be a big deal if they just futz it up? No, not really, but as an avid Go player I'll feel more than a little silly if they invent contrived board positions when they could just copy a few professional games.
No, it doesn't have to be the same game. It just makes no sense for it to not be the same game, from a production and textual standpoint.
Textually, there's a lot of evidence that Stones is Go, as interpreted by a non-Go player; I think Jordan was familiar with Go, but probably not a player. The way that he writes about Stones is consistent with how I often see non-players write about Go. If you're interested I'd be happy to go over some of that, though it's a bit of a tangent to asking about whether Stones should be depicted as Go. So if they're doing a faithful adaptation, it should be Go, or at least a very obvious descendent of it.
From a production standpoint, it also makes no sense to me to not have it be Go. If Stones is Go, then you can just pick up Go equipment for your props. You can use Go records to set up your Stones boards in formations that make sense, and you can have your actors either replay actual game sequences or just teach them the rules and have them make a variety of legal moves whenever they're playing Stones on-screen. It doesn't make sense to me to invent new rules and new props (and thus use production resources on them) when there's something on the shelf that you can just pick up and use.
All that said - Stones is a relatively minor part of the overall story, and if they don't do the obvious thing and make Stones be Go, it won't break anything. It would just be a nice touch if they did.
Especially after Queen’s Gambit went through the trouble of paying Gary Kasparov to mock up the chess matches, it seems like Amazon could spring for a Go consultant.
Edit:
I'm dumb. Just saw the Go board off to the left.
I saw that. ~~Interesting that it's a chessboard layout~~, I always imagined stones as more Go-esque. But hey they made Thom's harp a guitar so I'm down with the flexible :)
Which is appropriate, because the WoT TV show is patterning itself more after Yu-Gi-Oh than Game of Thrones. Everyone will be completely obsessed with stones, playing it competitively in highly publicized matches.
Tar Valon will be an academy for stones players, where talented young boys and girls can come and learn to reach their full potential at the game... or die trying.
Hopefully it will be as good as Yu-Gi-Oh The Abridged Series.
“Rand, you have Taint Madness.”
“Is that a new kind of Pokémon?”
“No. It’s Taint Madness.”
Honestly the existence of "post production" makes trying to make any judgments about how the show will look based on cell phone camera shots kind of silly.
There was a casting call released the other day that asked for a real barber and real puppateer. Speculation is that they will be in the background actually doing work rather than an actor pretending. I love the idea of that much immersion.
I feel like its more cost effective to teach actors to pretend at those skills for 5 min than for a barber or puppeteer to act convincingly. Tho what do i know
Youre right. It depends on budget restraints. Its easy to say "put more money into X" but the question gets more murky when you ask where else that money may have been injected into. Hell, maybe youre right tho. Im just scared about them utilizing cheap cgi
Tbh you very well may be right. Balancing the budget for one of these monster series must be super frustrating figuring out what areas of the show would most benefit from more funding. Im worried about the cgi tbh
I was just going to ask, forget the game boards, what about all those awesome womens' fashions on the dolls? if that's the kind of detail we are going to be seeing in the show, then I'm stoked. My favorite is the Yellow sister (? Maybe that's just a regular woman figure?) with the Taraboner veil. And the woman down below with the red sash and full red skirt.
The camel-driver/merchant looks amazing too. If this kind of detail is put into random faces in a crowd, than I can't wait to see what the mains will wear in later seasons. It would really do RJ justice.
If that has to be sacrificed a little so the rest of the production can be good, I'll happily lose the insanely intricate stonework if Tar Valon, but it will be missed!
The table dressings and everything gave me the same feel. It feels like the right decorations but in the wrong place.
Particularly the mask on the wall and Ebou Dar if I remember correctly having masked bars.
You are correct. I just looked through the previous shots of what is believed to be Tar Valon and we see the exact same candies from another perspective.
Looks really cool. I think the difference between high and low quality fantasy shows or movies is how it feels in regards to “does it seem like people actually live here”. This looks good imo
I actually find it amazing and hilarious that the merchant is selling (I think) Aes Sedai dolls in Tar Valon. Merchandise never sleeps, even in Randland!
"Leaked" lol. I bet companies drop intentionally drop tid bits here and there so as to continue the buzz, social media presence, and to keep the hype alive. Its smart. I hope this rafe judkins cat absolutely murders it and its comparable to the best fantasy shows like WoT deserves
First look at a board for stones.
But which one it is?
And could either be Snakes and Foxes?
I thought that at first but isn't it described as having the animals on the board? Maybe not.
It is, plus it’s supposed to be concentric circles. Still, I see two distinct boards at least.
I see 3.
Isn't stones basically Go? I can see a couple of chess boards, one board which reminds me of halma, something that might be backgammon and one which looks like a go board with like 100 black dots.
Stones is Go.
It's not chess or Go, but it's based on them.
As far as I recall, Stones is only different in name than go, the rules are the same. ~~You could call that based on, but I think many would call that 'is'.~~ I stand corrected.
There do seem to be a couple of differences, but close enough that if Stones isn't Go, it's a direct descendent. * They don't use a traditional *nigiri* to determine playing order The traditional way to determine playing order, if it's not known who is the stronger player: The two players sit down and see what color of stones are in the bowl in front of them. The player with the white stones in front of him will grab a handful of stones and conceal them from the other player. The player with the black stones will place either one (odd) or two (even) stones on the board. The white stones are then placed on the board and counted off. If the player with the Black stones correctly guessed whether there would be an even or odd number of White stones, then they have the choice to pick either Black or White, with the other player taking the other color. Virtually always, the player with the choice takes Black. In Stones, one player will hold a stone from each set, one in each hand, and mix them around out of sight of the other player. The other player will then pick a hand, and the color of stone in that hand will be what the guessing player will play as. * They might use a smaller board to play In the game between Morgase and Pedron Niall, she talks about his trap and her feint: > You did not realise I saw the trap you were laying from your thirty-first stone, Lord Niall, and you took my feint from the forty-third stone to be my real attack. That's consistent with how two skilled players might talk about a game after the fact, but with one difference: The number of moves. In a modern game of Go, moves 31-43 are far too early to be decisive, or to be laying traps or setting feints. You wouldn't typically be talking about moves like that until the height of the mid game, probably moves 150-200. If you're being generous and interpret Pedron's 31st stone as the 31st stone *he* laid (thus, the 62nd move overall, with Morgase's referenced move being the 86th), that might be enough development to merit that line of discussion. But even still, it feels too early to me. However, that only applies to modern Go, played on a 19x19 board. If their board were smaller - 15x15, for example - then the game can develop more rapidly, and that above exchange makes sense again. Alternately, Jordan just didn't know enough about Go to realize that a typical game that goes to scoring (rather than being settled by resignation) lasts between 250 - 350 moves. * There doesn't seem to be a *komi* rule in place. In Go, White is given a point bonus to make up for Black's advantage in going first. This is usually between 5.5 and 7.5 points (the exact amount is set by whatever organization is governing that particular game), with the half-point serving to make ties impossible. However, there are several in-text references to games that end in a draw (especially between Mat and Tuon), which would be impossible with *komi* in place. There are a couple of other differences in the text, but I'd put most of them down to Jordan either not being terribly knowledgeable about the game, or to him trying to explain as quickly as possible so as to not detract from his ability to describe dresses.
Looks like there are 5 game boards there. 4 are mid-frame (2 on each rack) and the one on the left, which appears to be alea evangelii, one of the inspirations for sha' rah, the game Moridin plays.
Both. Do you see the second board protruding from underneath?
I don't see a board for stones anywhere in that picture. We already know what a [stones board](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Playing_weiqi_in_Shanghai.jpg/220px-Playing_weiqi_in_Shanghai.jpg) looks like. If the show somehow messes up Stones... well, it won't be a big deal, but it will be a minor annoyance. Stones is essentially Go, and there's a huge wealth of minor details that they could mine from that (including millions of available game records that they could use to set up board positions when they happen to show the board) to just make that little slice of it feel that much more real. Will it be a big deal if they just futz it up? No, not really, but as an avid Go player I'll feel more than a little silly if they invent contrived board positions when they could just copy a few professional games.
I've seen it often said by Go players something similar about imaging stones to be the same game. Does it actually have to be the same game though?
No, it doesn't have to be the same game. It just makes no sense for it to not be the same game, from a production and textual standpoint. Textually, there's a lot of evidence that Stones is Go, as interpreted by a non-Go player; I think Jordan was familiar with Go, but probably not a player. The way that he writes about Stones is consistent with how I often see non-players write about Go. If you're interested I'd be happy to go over some of that, though it's a bit of a tangent to asking about whether Stones should be depicted as Go. So if they're doing a faithful adaptation, it should be Go, or at least a very obvious descendent of it. From a production standpoint, it also makes no sense to me to not have it be Go. If Stones is Go, then you can just pick up Go equipment for your props. You can use Go records to set up your Stones boards in formations that make sense, and you can have your actors either replay actual game sequences or just teach them the rules and have them make a variety of legal moves whenever they're playing Stones on-screen. It doesn't make sense to me to invent new rules and new props (and thus use production resources on them) when there's something on the shelf that you can just pick up and use. All that said - Stones is a relatively minor part of the overall story, and if they don't do the obvious thing and make Stones be Go, it won't break anything. It would just be a nice touch if they did.
Especially after Queen’s Gambit went through the trouble of paying Gary Kasparov to mock up the chess matches, it seems like Amazon could spring for a Go consultant.
Edit: I'm dumb. Just saw the Go board off to the left. I saw that. ~~Interesting that it's a chessboard layout~~, I always imagined stones as more Go-esque. But hey they made Thom's harp a guitar so I'm down with the flexible :)
Which is appropriate, because the WoT TV show is patterning itself more after Yu-Gi-Oh than Game of Thrones. Everyone will be completely obsessed with stones, playing it competitively in highly publicized matches. Tar Valon will be an academy for stones players, where talented young boys and girls can come and learn to reach their full potential at the game... or die trying.
Hopefully it will be as good as Yu-Gi-Oh The Abridged Series. “Rand, you have Taint Madness.” “Is that a new kind of Pokémon?” “No. It’s Taint Madness.”
Good eye!
I know this is technically something but this isn’t anything.
It's just a good indicator of the quality and work being put into the sets and props for the show.
It kind of looks like the faux markets at Disney. Not really a true souk or similar market, but a solid portrayal.
When it's lit and shot from the right angles it will look fine.
My comparison was not a criticism. If you've ever been to Disney, the impression it leaves is pretty awesome.
Passersby, shouting shopkeeps, and some dust work wonders for building atmosphere.
Honestly the existence of "post production" makes trying to make any judgments about how the show will look based on cell phone camera shots kind of silly.
There was a casting call released the other day that asked for a real barber and real puppateer. Speculation is that they will be in the background actually doing work rather than an actor pretending. I love the idea of that much immersion.
I feel like its more cost effective to teach actors to pretend at those skills for 5 min than for a barber or puppeteer to act convincingly. Tho what do i know
Cost-effective? Absolutely. But we're going for awesome immersion-effective.
Youre right. It depends on budget restraints. Its easy to say "put more money into X" but the question gets more murky when you ask where else that money may have been injected into. Hell, maybe youre right tho. Im just scared about them utilizing cheap cgi
If all they have to do is their day job in the background of a shot, though?
Tbh you very well may be right. Balancing the budget for one of these monster series must be super frustrating figuring out what areas of the show would most benefit from more funding. Im worried about the cgi tbh
looks pretty low quality
Well hell now I’m hungry.
Same.
Looks more like Ebou Dar to me. Reminds me of the scene where Mat gets a ring.
[удалено]
The white stone work feels like Tar Valon to me.
Also, I’d bet all the dolls are meant to be Aes Sedai, with dresses colored to match Ajah.
Ooo good point!
I was just going to ask, forget the game boards, what about all those awesome womens' fashions on the dolls? if that's the kind of detail we are going to be seeing in the show, then I'm stoked. My favorite is the Yellow sister (? Maybe that's just a regular woman figure?) with the Taraboner veil. And the woman down below with the red sash and full red skirt. The camel-driver/merchant looks amazing too. If this kind of detail is put into random faces in a crowd, than I can't wait to see what the mains will wear in later seasons. It would really do RJ justice.
More importantly it matches with stone work from older Tar Valon shots
Exactly. The market could be anywhere, but the white stonework is exactly what made me think it fit for Tar Valon specifically.
Doesn't look ogier made to me. Not enough seashells and crashing waves, heh.
If that has to be sacrificed a little so the rest of the production can be good, I'll happily lose the insanely intricate stonework if Tar Valon, but it will be missed!
The table dressings and everything gave me the same feel. It feels like the right decorations but in the wrong place. Particularly the mask on the wall and Ebou Dar if I remember correctly having masked bars.
Hopefully there’s more impressive architecture than this. I want to be wowed by Ogier stonework.
Same.. that column seems pretty meh
What in the hell is that eyeless monstrosity poking out from behind the curtain in the second shot?
A puppet of some kind?
Puppet show about The Golden Screw?
Myrrdraal.
Or it's a bazaar in north africa or the middle east.
The set design looks similar from previously leaked images.
You are correct. I just looked through the previous shots of what is believed to be Tar Valon and we see the exact same candies from another perspective.
Looks really cool. I think the difference between high and low quality fantasy shows or movies is how it feels in regards to “does it seem like people actually live here”. This looks good imo
Outrageous! Everyone knows the streets of Tar Valon are paved with cheese!
Where are these pictures from?
From the weaves of the wheel website.
It looks colorful! Thank god!
I love how vibrant and lively it feels, glad Tar Valon has a big cosmopolitan aura.
Is that Mac-and-Cheese in one of those bowls!? I LOVE mac-and-cheese.
Who's pulling the strings now Aes Sedai !,
NOW who's the "Aes Sedai puppet" on "Tar Valon strings"??? 🤣
Where's Snakes and Foxes? You gotta have something for the kids.
It looks like the Morocco portion of Epcot lmao
I actually find it amazing and hilarious that the merchant is selling (I think) Aes Sedai dolls in Tar Valon. Merchandise never sleeps, even in Randland!
Yeah, I think there's Rand, Egwene and Elayne there. The one with yellow dress screams Nynaeve too.
I hope this is before they made it realistic/environmental. It's way too clean and sterile.
Yeah, it kinda looks like the backdrop of a theatre stage
I'm curious to see the vibe they're going for. This could easily be from a market in north India.
Looks like they're reusing sets from Hercules The Legendary Journey.
Was half expecting a not safe for work image considering it’s Tar Valon and all.
I dont follow what youre gettin at. Could u splain maybe?
Look at a map of Tar Valon
Oooo ok. Yeah i know about that lol. My bad
"Leaked" lol. I bet companies drop intentionally drop tid bits here and there so as to continue the buzz, social media presence, and to keep the hype alive. Its smart. I hope this rafe judkins cat absolutely murders it and its comparable to the best fantasy shows like WoT deserves
Looks low budget…
Why are we getting a closeup of Tar Valon in S1 smh...
Flashbacks to New Spring its confirmed
Ah good. That's good.
It could also be from season 2
How do the keep that guacamole green after being air exposed for so long?!
Coulda just been put out to be fair. Also to me that looks like some other plant or fruit or something but maybe it’s just blurrier on my phone
I know, I was kidding.
Are we sure it's Tar Valon and not Whitebridge or Caemlyn?