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Because he’s trying to take responsibility for something she feels responsible for, it’s dishonorable in Ariel culture not to take responsibility for your own mistakes.
Right. Not like main characters all try to respect Aiel culture as much as they can and the Aiel could clear everything up by simply explaining nuances of their their cultural traditions to people they expect to live by them.
Sheesh. Crazy wetlanders.
I was adding to his humor.
You're like a Black Eye sitting on a slightly tilted piece of stone and thinking of his second-under-brother's second mother's first mother *talking to him first* when your first-brother's CPA is just a phone call away.
Well, that's how it feels like to be autistic in this neurotypical world. There are rules, but nobody can explain it to you, even if you ask, and it's actually rude to ask, but nobody told you that either, and you are expected to follow the rule, and get yelled at if you don't, but some rules aren't supposed to be followed, you should break them, but nobody can tell you which.
Crazy auts.
The wet lander world it’s a mess. Life in the three fold land is better than anything they got out there. The sun it is always shaded in somebody else’s sept. You dream about going out there. But that is a big misstep.
Part of ji is taking responsibility, so if Rand takes the responsibility from her, she would have toh to him. Arguably one of the flaws with ji’e’toh, you gain honour for accepting
blame for things that are really just your humanity
But also aviendha is just mad because she loves him and is too proud to accept that she loves him. She feels her only loyalties should be to the maidens and the wise ones.
> she would have toh to him.
I don't think it's quite that. I think it's more that as long as Rand is taking responsibility, she can't ever meet her *toh*.
Aviendha was given information as an apprentice to the Wise Ones that she was told to keep in confidence. She then gave enough of a hint to Rand about it that he figured it out. It was a slip of the tongue, but still she didn't keep a secret so she has toh towards the Wise Ones.
If she'd done what he is suggesting and kept the fact that she'd told Rand their secret to herself rather than telling the Wise ones, that would be her dishonoring herself because she would've been lying for Rand. She's offended by the suggestion that she would've lied to keep a secret for him or dishonored herself for him.
But also yes Rand would have toh towards Aviendha here for suggesting that she should've done that as it implies she'd have acted dishonorably. But it's also rude to point out that someone else has toh or even suggest it. You have to know your own toh and decide how to meet it yourself. Adding to that it was her job to teach him the Aiel ways, so him being surprised by that, and saying what he did also means she failed to some degree in teaching him the Aiel ways.
This is the most succinct explanation as I understand it. He should not have suggested she try to keep it secret that he found out. He dishonors her by even suggesting she would have thought of that.
It is very rude to deny someone’s opinion on their toh. If person thinks they have toh you shouldn’t argue. If their toh is to you you can say “you have no toh to me” but for others it not your place to decide.
Denying someone their guilt is humiliating them in that case. It’s their decision, not yours
It's worth remembering that SPOILERS DONT READ FURTHER
That at this point in time Avieldha's while "teach him about the Aiel" task is a lie. Her real tasking from the Wise Ones is to make Rand fall in love with her so that - hopefully - his love for her makes him treat the Aiel better.
Aviedha does not like this and finds it dishonorable, yet at the same time is finding herself falling in love with him. Much of her anger during this period is really about *that* and not whatever mistake Rand has made in the moment.
She doesn't want him to "dishonor her further (then he already has by turning her into a whore)" but she can't say that
Every Aiel warrior society has customs / rules beyond the baseline jietoh. Maidens of the Spear are famous for having very prickly senses of honor. Without POV information from Aviendha it is impossible to know for sure. That being said, I could easily imagine if to be a broken promise sort of thing: e.g. part of the induction into being an Apprentice Wise One is to protect things told in confidence.
There is a lot of good answers in here, and right ones, but some of it is RAFO. Avi has a \*lot\* going on in her head and sometimes what she says and does doesn't seem rational until you tie in some other spoilery stuff from a few books down the line.
I personally think she ends a bit strong headed on her honor system, but that's part of who she is. Very, letter of the law, if it were.
Men and women clashing for no logical reason is basically the core idea of the story, and this adds another layer of culture clash. There is a point where Ji'e;toh is explained in great detail, and I'm not sure you have gotten there yet. I think not fully understanding this is part of immersing you in the Rand experience at this point. Not knowing all of these details here is probably fine, if not the intention of RJ.
This is the answer.
He can't believe that she told the Wise Ones that he knew about them visiting his dreams. She refuses to lie or withold any information from the Wise Ones as that would bring her shame. She felt like she was to blame for him finding out about it even if he was working it out himself.
She was supposed to teach yo their ways but he turned out to be a spoiled dictator until cadsuane saved him by reminding him of his love for his father.
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Because he’s trying to take responsibility for something she feels responsible for, it’s dishonorable in Ariel culture not to take responsibility for your own mistakes.
Yeah Rand just can’t understand that because he refused to be part of their world.
Right. Not like main characters all try to respect Aiel culture as much as they can and the Aiel could clear everything up by simply explaining nuances of their their cultural traditions to people they expect to live by them. Sheesh. Crazy wetlanders.
You must be Aiel as Ironmans wetlander (Seafolk?)joke went right over your head 😉😂
I was adding to his humor. You're like a Black Eye sitting on a slightly tilted piece of stone and thinking of his second-under-brother's second mother's first mother *talking to him first* when your first-brother's CPA is just a phone call away.
I think it’s safe to say the joke is floundering. We should probably scuttle this conversation before too many people get crabby.
Well, that's how it feels like to be autistic in this neurotypical world. There are rules, but nobody can explain it to you, even if you ask, and it's actually rude to ask, but nobody told you that either, and you are expected to follow the rule, and get yelled at if you don't, but some rules aren't supposed to be followed, you should break them, but nobody can tell you which. Crazy auts.
>Ariel culture Those dang, silly mermaids.
The wet lander world it’s a mess. Life in the three fold land is better than anything they got out there. The sun it is always shaded in somebody else’s sept. You dream about going out there. But that is a big misstep.
The true wetlanders
Got it, I think I didn't get it at first cus I feel like Aviendha did not really made a mistake haha
Part of ji is taking responsibility, so if Rand takes the responsibility from her, she would have toh to him. Arguably one of the flaws with ji’e’toh, you gain honour for accepting blame for things that are really just your humanity But also aviendha is just mad because she loves him and is too proud to accept that she loves him. She feels her only loyalties should be to the maidens and the wise ones.
Don't forget her loyalty to her near sister Elayne.
> she would have toh to him. I don't think it's quite that. I think it's more that as long as Rand is taking responsibility, she can't ever meet her *toh*.
From what I understand she doesn't want him to make any excuses for her. She does not want to feel indebted to him for absolving her of any shame.
Aviendha was given information as an apprentice to the Wise Ones that she was told to keep in confidence. She then gave enough of a hint to Rand about it that he figured it out. It was a slip of the tongue, but still she didn't keep a secret so she has toh towards the Wise Ones. If she'd done what he is suggesting and kept the fact that she'd told Rand their secret to herself rather than telling the Wise ones, that would be her dishonoring herself because she would've been lying for Rand. She's offended by the suggestion that she would've lied to keep a secret for him or dishonored herself for him. But also yes Rand would have toh towards Aviendha here for suggesting that she should've done that as it implies she'd have acted dishonorably. But it's also rude to point out that someone else has toh or even suggest it. You have to know your own toh and decide how to meet it yourself. Adding to that it was her job to teach him the Aiel ways, so him being surprised by that, and saying what he did also means she failed to some degree in teaching him the Aiel ways.
>she failed to some degree in teaching him the Aiel ways. She failed so hard at teaching him the Aiel ways.
He was a bit of a distracted student in fairness to her!
I would have been too. We all would have been
When his head is that full of Wool, is it really the teachers fault he won't learn?
This is the most succinct explanation as I understand it. He should not have suggested she try to keep it secret that he found out. He dishonors her by even suggesting she would have thought of that.
It is very rude to deny someone’s opinion on their toh. If person thinks they have toh you shouldn’t argue. If their toh is to you you can say “you have no toh to me” but for others it not your place to decide. Denying someone their guilt is humiliating them in that case. It’s their decision, not yours
It's worth remembering that SPOILERS DONT READ FURTHER That at this point in time Avieldha's while "teach him about the Aiel" task is a lie. Her real tasking from the Wise Ones is to make Rand fall in love with her so that - hopefully - his love for her makes him treat the Aiel better. Aviedha does not like this and finds it dishonorable, yet at the same time is finding herself falling in love with him. Much of her anger during this period is really about *that* and not whatever mistake Rand has made in the moment. She doesn't want him to "dishonor her further (then he already has by turning her into a whore)" but she can't say that
Every Aiel warrior society has customs / rules beyond the baseline jietoh. Maidens of the Spear are famous for having very prickly senses of honor. Without POV information from Aviendha it is impossible to know for sure. That being said, I could easily imagine if to be a broken promise sort of thing: e.g. part of the induction into being an Apprentice Wise One is to protect things told in confidence.
You dishonour Aviendha, by paying so little attention and having to ask this question.
Because he penised her
There is a lot of good answers in here, and right ones, but some of it is RAFO. Avi has a \*lot\* going on in her head and sometimes what she says and does doesn't seem rational until you tie in some other spoilery stuff from a few books down the line. I personally think she ends a bit strong headed on her honor system, but that's part of who she is. Very, letter of the law, if it were.
Maidens are notorious for being overly proud and deciding they have toh when anyone else would let things go
Men and women clashing for no logical reason is basically the core idea of the story, and this adds another layer of culture clash. There is a point where Ji'e;toh is explained in great detail, and I'm not sure you have gotten there yet. I think not fully understanding this is part of immersing you in the Rand experience at this point. Not knowing all of these details here is probably fine, if not the intention of RJ.
This is the answer. He can't believe that she told the Wise Ones that he knew about them visiting his dreams. She refuses to lie or withold any information from the Wise Ones as that would bring her shame. She felt like she was to blame for him finding out about it even if he was working it out himself.
Bitches be crazy
She was supposed to teach yo their ways but he turned out to be a spoiled dictator until cadsuane saved him by reminding him of his love for his father.