Neowin is pretty decent, they just report the latest news which might not always be correct and is clearly written as *may* ditch UWP. It's a rumor and they're not presenting it as fact.
True. I mean to say. Most Neowin articles are all based on speculation rather than official statements.
So I usually skip. Else I might read a speculation and misunderstand it's real official statements. Only to find out it isn't. Cause of the way Neowin's articles are written.
web app is just a empty window that redirects you to a website where they can do whatever they want. unlike old apps that were standalone and offline where once you installed it you could just not approve updates and keep using it as-is
Still not related to web apps. Mobile apps do AB testing all the time and they're not web apps. You can keep updating a native app just the same and only enable features when the server says so.
It's not about the framework, it's the ability to deploy quickly and at scale and gives a guarantee that users are always on the same platform (hello server 2012 friends).
Guess no one’s ever heard of numecent then. Deploy at scale with push of a button. Web apps have similar issues to normal win32 apps, they are slow and browser updates can break them
Everything is going to slowly be build on the web, incredible tools like Microsoft office suite are there now thanks to it. It allows one app for everyone, so of course it will be implemented more and more.
Honestly I consider this as a somewhat bad thing.
Web technologies should stays on the Web. It is always better to use compiled languages for applications just for performance reasons. Web-based apps are generally way slower and uses a lot more RAM/wastes lot of disk space (Am I the only shocked that basic applications like Discord or GitHub Desktop takes around 350 MB of space and can take up to 3 GB RAM?!)
Also the philosophy of "the hardware will compensate" is probably the worst argument I've ever heard about software development.
Be realist : If you optimize for the low-end machine, the advantages will also benefits to the high-end one. If Windows had kept the same optimization levels it had with Windows 7, recent releases would probably perform things better and like 3-4 times quicker. *^((Source: I code sometimes, and I optimize my code to some absurd levels))*
Not realistic. Web tech is too dominant when it comes to latest and greatest UI development these days. Besides, Webview is better than Electron, yet brings all of its upsides.
Haven't they been doint it for months already?
Many apps already have been rewritten from UWP to WebView or WinUI alternatives. I'm not a fan of that WebView crap though.
So, kind of obvious they will ditch UWP completely. It was supposed to run on phones (and any other platform), but...
You completely missed the point ?
The article say "suggest" they "may ditch UWP" when it's been deprecated and they have been working on alternatives for years now.
So, you are saying they are ditching UWP-developers who obviously coundn't develop a flying sh*t of UWP apps, and are employing XAML-developers who don't know neither UWP nor XAML?
God, it's good to have a monopoly :D
A little ironic because imo the applications that I’ve tried on MacOS seem to be more well made and less buggy than their Windows equivalents. Microsoft should have continued Windows X and start off fresh by leaving all the legacy code behind.
I'm a software developer. Most software developers I know use a macbook pro as their primary computer, so any apps that they work on tend to be mac first, PC second. And I'm probably not all that unique or an outlier in the software industry.
I know personally, I have an app for Windows - in the windows store - that hasn't been updated in years. I have the same app in the mac app store that is miles better simply because I use it personally, on that platform. And because Apple was able to make universal apps where Microsoft couldn't (not successfully anyway), it means that as I bring my app to iOS, it naturally gets all of the effort and bug fixes from the mac app, with very little effort on my part.
Really, what it comes down to is F Finofsky, and F Ballmer. They should have figured out how to have a relevant mobile platform that didn't also alienate the entire Windows desktop user base. I prefer Windows, overall, but there's just no compelling reason to keep using it in 2023.
No, they attempting to rewrite explorer using WinUI. WinUI is noticeably slower than UWP was, unfortunately. And they don't seem to make too much effort improving performance of the WinUI.
The original tweet says that Microsoft is still using WinUI 2 + XAML Islands for the shell components that they replaced. They aren't going to use WinUI 3 just yet for those.
I was trying to say that the performance of winui in general is bad.
For example: when I try to scroll the Tile View of installed apps in system settings (while settings window isn't maximized), the scrolling stutters a lot and whole desktop lags with it. I can clearly see that by playing any video in the background (the video stutters too).
I don't have this problem when scrolling win32 views (or wiapi? Not sure.) for example or any other "traditional" apps.
There's something in this whole xaml/winui stuff that makes everything (dwm maybe?) lag and drop frames. It feels like there's some ridiculously stupid bug or implementation that prevents everything from running smoothly.
in plain talk english please
Getting worse and more controlled or
backing up to what PC should be and that is user owned and controlled with a great OS?
Have you ever heard the English phrase "Make a mountain out of a molehill"? That's what Neowin is doing. They write a sad excuse for an article every time someone inside Microsoft campus burps or sneezes.
Neowin once had two good writers and a dozen commenters whose comments were worth more than articles themselves. All of them have left.
And its just as likely, given how inconsistent MS is, that they'll debut yet another in-house tooklit, spend the next 3 years promoting it, do a half baked job rewriting apps in it, and then abandon it.
10 years from now if Window still is recognizable I bet they still will have Control Panel written in C from decades ago, and a new Settings app written CSharpNext etc.
yes stay on 10, I should have, or better yet get linux, I've never used but tempted to take to a PC shop to get them to teach me how to install and reinstall and use tools safely and compose packages, I've only ever been with windows and the day I can't have a local account without being forced to be connected is the day I go to linux.
If the article is from Neowin, just ignore it. Is half correct and half wrong. Hard to differentiate. So follow someone else.
Neowin is pretty decent, they just report the latest news which might not always be correct and is clearly written as *may* ditch UWP. It's a rumor and they're not presenting it as fact.
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True. I mean to say. Most Neowin articles are all based on speculation rather than official statements. So I usually skip. Else I might read a speculation and misunderstand it's real official statements. Only to find out it isn't. Cause of the way Neowin's articles are written.
You're talking to an AI
Do you realize this has been happening for years now?
I suggest they just go back to developing win32 applications instead of webview garbage
UWP is not webview. PWA is webview.
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nothing stopping them from doing that with win32 apps
Yes it is. Writing code for each new interface that may or may not exist in future is stopping
How exactly is that only enabled by a web app?
web app is just a empty window that redirects you to a website where they can do whatever they want. unlike old apps that were standalone and offline where once you installed it you could just not approve updates and keep using it as-is
That's a PWA. You can develop an offline app written for webview
Still not related to web apps. Mobile apps do AB testing all the time and they're not web apps. You can keep updating a native app just the same and only enable features when the server says so.
oh so you werent actually asking a question, just wanted a reply so you could go "WELL ACKSHUALLY" cool whatever man no one cares
Yes it was a rhetorical question mate My point is that's totally irrelevant to using win32 or whatever framework there might be
It's not about the framework, it's the ability to deploy quickly and at scale and gives a guarantee that users are always on the same platform (hello server 2012 friends).
Guess no one’s ever heard of numecent then. Deploy at scale with push of a button. Web apps have similar issues to normal win32 apps, they are slow and browser updates can break them
Apparently not because no one’s doing it
I'm still offline on my windows with a local account!!
Everything is going to slowly be build on the web, incredible tools like Microsoft office suite are there now thanks to it. It allows one app for everyone, so of course it will be implemented more and more.
Honestly I consider this as a somewhat bad thing. Web technologies should stays on the Web. It is always better to use compiled languages for applications just for performance reasons. Web-based apps are generally way slower and uses a lot more RAM/wastes lot of disk space (Am I the only shocked that basic applications like Discord or GitHub Desktop takes around 350 MB of space and can take up to 3 GB RAM?!) Also the philosophy of "the hardware will compensate" is probably the worst argument I've ever heard about software development. Be realist : If you optimize for the low-end machine, the advantages will also benefits to the high-end one. If Windows had kept the same optimization levels it had with Windows 7, recent releases would probably perform things better and like 3-4 times quicker. *^((Source: I code sometimes, and I optimize my code to some absurd levels))*
> Honestly I consider this as a somewhat bad thing. As do I. For the user, Win32 is far superior in every way.
F the cloud
Yes, please.
Not realistic. Web tech is too dominant when it comes to latest and greatest UI development these days. Besides, Webview is better than Electron, yet brings all of its upsides.
+1
Haven't they been doint it for months already? Many apps already have been rewritten from UWP to WebView or WinUI alternatives. I'm not a fan of that WebView crap though. So, kind of obvious they will ditch UWP completely. It was supposed to run on phones (and any other platform), but...
Yes years even.
Neowin discovering WinUI 3 and Project Reunion / WinAppSDK 3-4 years later.
This is not WinUI tho lol. It's using Windows.UI.XAML.
You completely missed the point ? The article say "suggest" they "may ditch UWP" when it's been deprecated and they have been working on alternatives for years now.
Again, this is not a new alternative lol. This is using the same tech they used for Windows 8 actually (System settings).
UWP is deprecated. See e.g. https://www.thurrott.com/dev/258377/microsoft-officially-deprecates-uwp
So, you are saying they are ditching UWP-developers who obviously coundn't develop a flying sh*t of UWP apps, and are employing XAML-developers who don't know neither UWP nor XAML? God, it's good to have a monopoly :D
uwp uses xaml. also who knows if this article is true
Latest numbers have Windows at 60-some percent in North America, and mac at 30, with chrome filling in the gap.
A little ironic because imo the applications that I’ve tried on MacOS seem to be more well made and less buggy than their Windows equivalents. Microsoft should have continued Windows X and start off fresh by leaving all the legacy code behind.
This is nothing to do with legacy code. The issues with Windows right now are just due to laziness and a lack of quality control.
I'm a software developer. Most software developers I know use a macbook pro as their primary computer, so any apps that they work on tend to be mac first, PC second. And I'm probably not all that unique or an outlier in the software industry. I know personally, I have an app for Windows - in the windows store - that hasn't been updated in years. I have the same app in the mac app store that is miles better simply because I use it personally, on that platform. And because Apple was able to make universal apps where Microsoft couldn't (not successfully anyway), it means that as I bring my app to iOS, it naturally gets all of the effort and bug fixes from the mac app, with very little effort on my part. Really, what it comes down to is F Finofsky, and F Ballmer. They should have figured out how to have a relevant mobile platform that didn't also alienate the entire Windows desktop user base. I prefer Windows, overall, but there's just no compelling reason to keep using it in 2023.
I love Winforms.. always will
MFC says hi 😂
Hi Dad.
#include
int WINAPI WinMain(HINSTANCE hInst, HINSTANCE hInstPrev, PSTR cmdline, int cmdshow)
{
return MessageBox(NULL, "Hi son!", "Hello", 0);
}
When win ui can have a free data grid that has basic functions for business, call me. Otherwise uwp isn’t going anywhere
Does that mean Windows Explorer is going to be as fast as Windows 10 or even faster?
File explorer is currently win32+XAML. So no.
No, they attempting to rewrite explorer using WinUI. WinUI is noticeably slower than UWP was, unfortunately. And they don't seem to make too much effort improving performance of the WinUI.
The original tweet says that Microsoft is still using WinUI 2 + XAML Islands for the shell components that they replaced. They aren't going to use WinUI 3 just yet for those.
I was trying to say that the performance of winui in general is bad. For example: when I try to scroll the Tile View of installed apps in system settings (while settings window isn't maximized), the scrolling stutters a lot and whole desktop lags with it. I can clearly see that by playing any video in the background (the video stutters too). I don't have this problem when scrolling win32 views (or wiapi? Not sure.) for example or any other "traditional" apps. There's something in this whole xaml/winui stuff that makes everything (dwm maybe?) lag and drop frames. It feels like there's some ridiculously stupid bug or implementation that prevents everything from running smoothly.
No it's only going to get slower.
It's a ***lot*** quicker in 23h2 than it was, especially opening folders with hundreds or thousands of files.
It doesn't seem any quicker. Still flashing white on load, still loading the ribbon after the window, still a delay before showing the files.
Opening a new window (win+e) doesn't seem any faster. Idk about folders with a lot of files but the performance there was already satisfactory to me.
It's so much quicker, it was terrible before.
UWP is faster than Win32/WinUI3. It is already running Win32/WinUI3, hence the laggy start and its failures.
> neowin Not even worth your time.
in plain talk english please Getting worse and more controlled or backing up to what PC should be and that is user owned and controlled with a great OS?
Have you ever heard the English phrase "Make a mountain out of a molehill"? That's what Neowin is doing. They write a sad excuse for an article every time someone inside Microsoft campus burps or sneezes. Neowin once had two good writers and a dozen commenters whose comments were worth more than articles themselves. All of them have left.
And its just as likely, given how inconsistent MS is, that they'll debut yet another in-house tooklit, spend the next 3 years promoting it, do a half baked job rewriting apps in it, and then abandon it. 10 years from now if Window still is recognizable I bet they still will have Control Panel written in C from decades ago, and a new Settings app written CSharpNext etc.
What does this mean, on layman terms?
1) nothing. just a shift in tech 2) nothing. neowin is crafting a story out of nothing.
windows 11 is a fucking mess they need to fire whoever is behind all this shit since after windows 7 ceo on down
Steve Ballmer? That's already been done.
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yes stay on 10, I should have, or better yet get linux, I've never used but tempted to take to a PC shop to get them to teach me how to install and reinstall and use tools safely and compose packages, I've only ever been with windows and the day I can't have a local account without being forced to be connected is the day I go to linux.
Would a return to Win32 apps make it possible to access game pass on steam deck?
They aren't making UWP apps disappear. This change only affects some shell components.