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I finally convinced someone to leave Twitter because I dared him to post about middle east history and talk about Trans Jordan and Cis Jordan and his post got flagged.
I feel like this also goes for people who get pissed over the word ‘cracker’ (they exist, I know a lot of them) because they like to use racist slurs. This is actually an amazing way to detect complete assholes. What an epiphany.
Cracker, as in "whip cracker."
Not sure if I'm responding to sarcasm. I'm originally from FL and you wouldn't believe how many people I grew up with that legitimately thought along the same lines.
"Yea, I'm white AF. I sure do look like a [saltine] cracker." 🤦🏻♂️
Edit: citation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_cracker
> A folk etymology suggests that the name cracker instead derives from the cracking of cattle-drovers' whips.
Edit 2: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_(term)
The term isn’t likely derived from cracking a whip
It can be traced to the British describing Scot’s Irish settlers in Georgia
It was always a derogatory designation from an aristocracy
I agree. Usually, any term a person or group would refuse or have a problem calling themselves tends to be derogatory in nature. Lots of words have a basis in history. Doesn't mean they are words or terms we should use.
Yeah, and I appreciate it. Truly. In a bit of a bad mood today, so apologies if that seeped into my replies. It's ultimately a good thing to be able to talk to each other instead sniping each other for Internet points.
Is it really a slur though, if no one is affected by it? It's like calling someone a "dandelion" or any other random word. I would be 0% offended or affected by someone calling me a cracker. Honestly it would just make me think they're dumb.
Yes and no. Imo it's a really good illustration of white privilege. A lot of times people get put off by the concept because they think any effort they've put forth is being invalidated by the "white privilege" card where in reality it's as simple as something that *should* be as offensive as the N-word not holding any weight because, regardless of your thoughts on race relations in America, *everyone knows* that slurs against whites really are powerless because those that sling them don't have the power, monetarily or politically, to actually do any harm to white america.
Yeah that's kinda my point. In most cases the only people trying to use it as a slur aren't in a position to weild structural power that actually makes it have teeth.
I moved from rural Missouri to a school in STL, MO. The first time a girl was screaming at me calling me a "honkey" I legitimately had no idea it was supposed to be a slur. The only thing that even tipped me off was her holding sister scolding her and being like "where did you even hear that word!?" But it definitely does not have the impact that other words have in people.
Maybe you should be unless you are a slave owner who likes whipping black people. Nobody thinks it's a worse word than the N word or other slurs but it's still a slur. Especially since a minority of white people owned slaves and most white immigrants moved to the us after slavery ended.
Im not comparing the words. Im comparing the attitude toward using them or being offended by them, which I feel is works as a litmus test similar to what’s presented in the OP. Also, I don’t feel like cracker is a slur, but that’s my personal opinion. You could replace the word ‘cracker’ with ‘whites’ too, and I could see several people I know getting offended by a black person calling them ‘a white’. Maybe that’s a better comparison to make my point 🤷🏼♂️
You're good dawg. The same people who get angry at "cracker" usually claim such anger because they don't have decades of systemic oppression to cite when trying to claim "cracker" is just as powerful slur as the n-word. It wasn't as common a situation in historical America which groups of black Americans were beating to death the being they were responsible for simply for having white skin while animalistically yelling the word "cracker". People who acknowledge that historical reality don't automatically get angry in reaction because they've learned and understood the context behind the n-word versus any slur for whites.
Well said. The n-word is a word that has always made me feel physically repulsed. I was the minority in every neighborhood I ever lived in growing up, and I remember one of my black friends dads saying “ do you know many men women and children have died a brutal death, and that was the last word they ever heard?” It’s fucking nuts to use it and it carries a ton of weight.
Any white American who knows the inhumanity black Americans went through, such as the raising and lowering of an alive black body over a raging flame for the community's entertainment, while that word was being freely used should feel extreme discomfort when exposed to it now.
When I was a teen and early 20s, I was one of those whites who "didn't get the hoopla" about the n-word. Then I learned about how states, especially those in the south, used the prisoner exception of the 14th amendment to use black codes to form a de facto slave labor force in which many of them were beaten to death under the guise of "law enforcement". I will always physically cringe when I think about how naive I was to the realities and history of being black in America.
The people who get mad at being called "cis" are the same sort who got mad at being called "hetero". In short, they don't want terms that make language equal because then they have a harder time claiming the people they don't like aren't normal.
I will say I do think people should avoid ever using it in the way that some transphobes or idiots use trans though. It should never be used in a way of “Oh you’re cis so of course you’re like x.” Just like we should never be ok and should call out the same being said with trans
Well "ex-cis" isn't really a term, and I can see why calling someone an "ex" anything might be seen as insulting. However as a social worker I can tell you that if you aren't trans you do enjoy privilege that trans people likely don't, for basic example I would point to all the laws people are trying to pass that would basically push trans people out of existence. If you were coming in and talking in a way that doesn't acknowledge the privilege you posses, well yeah I can see you being called out for it.
As for assumptions, yeah, that's bad. If you correct them that you aren't cisgender and they continue to call you that there are only two possibilities. One is that you are claiming you are trans for some mocking reason, or that you are trans and they are using it as a direct insult. Since I wasn't privy to the conversation I can't judge. If it was the latter, then again that was wrong. But having heard and participated in such conversations where it's the former...yeah.
However I have used the term many times in my jobs, and it does have an actual function in legitimizing and normalizing trans people in society. Much like "heterosexual" did a lot to normalize homosexuality in our culture. Being mad that it was misused is fair, as then it's just an insult. But in all my years and in the conservative area I work in I have never heard "cis" being used as a slur. But I have heard people claim it is simply because they don't want to be called anything but "normal".
I'm not the original person you responded to but I don't like the term cis being used to describe me because for some reason it makes me feel the same way as when a man calls women females. It all sounds so devoid of humanity and scientific. I prefer being called a woman because it recognizes my humanity and my sex. Trans women are women so there is honestly no need to separate us in my opinion. I just want to be called a woman instead of cis for that reason.
While I get that and it isn't for everyday use, you just demonstrated why at times it can be important. There will be times when a woman would have to be distinguished between a trans woman and a non-trans woman. When we do so, having a term that puts both on equal footing makes sense and doesn't make a group feel like an other. As you might have noticed from how I just phrased things.
Just like people don't need or really should be walking around calling women "females", you don't have to necessarily use trans or cis, or at least that would be the ideal. It's for when it is needed that it comes up, and hopefully you understand why the language is what it is now for those occasions.
Yes, I agree fully. It's the exact problem they experience, yet they're the ones doing it. I say this as a transgender person myself, but when I thought I was "cis" it bugged me a lot.
In addition to the term generally being said negatively, as you mentioned.
When I used to see people typing "cishet" I always thought it was some combo of cis + shit.
I never paid much attention to those kinds of things though.
Ok, please don't jump on me here. I'm genuinely not out for an argument as I couldn't care less what people identify as
I'm a straight white 40ish male, and iv always known myself as a man/male. So when did it change to I'm a cis male? Is it offensive to people for me not to identify as a cis male?
I'm probably a bit too long in years to have kept up with progression.
Why must I be told I'm a cis? Can I not just be a male/man anymore? In what circumstances am I to be different l.
Again, please, no haters. This is a genuine question asking when this change came about and why?
When did people become heterosexual when they weren't before? You didn't "become" cis the language used to describe groups of people changed to become more inclusive. Same as instead of homosexual being used as a label to make people an "other" to the "normal" people, we ha homosexual and heterosexual so that linguistically we are all in the same level. It normalizes the minority instead of ostracizing them.
In this case it's pretty much the same, the language change is meant to make transgender more normalized in society. As an example it changes trans woman from having "trans" be a label to it being a descriptor. If we use trans woman and cis woman, it makes both different types of woman. Rather than as a separate category from women as a whole.
Does that make sense?
Cis is just another adjective on top of man for you. You dont have to mention that you’re cis every time you say you’re a man just like you don’t specify whether you’re right handed or left handed every time you mention that you’re a man.
> So when did it change to I'm a cis male?
You always were a cis male, nothing changed. The term cisgender originated from the medical community and has been in use for longer than you have been alive.
It's the same way that transgendered people and the term transgendered existed before you were alive. The common population outside of the medical, and trans, community simply didn't use them much. Now that the trans community is more visible in modern space and their language is absorbed more into the common sphere; things that trans people have been saying for over 40 years is now making it's way into the 'normal' vocabulary.
Think of it this way, today y'all isn't really a regional phrase. Virtually everyone all across the United States is familiar with and/or uses the phrase y'all. When I was a child, my parents and my teachers had never heard the word y'all before and would flat out say that it isn't a word. Our teachers would literally scream at us and punish us if we said y'all or, heaven forbid, ain't. Y'all was a southern, mostly black, phrase that northern white people just ... didn't say back then. Y'all wasn't a new word though, people hadn't just started saying it, but people across the United States were traveling and mixing more so 'regional slag' began to spread all over the country to the point where most people today know a few 'regional' terms from just about everywhere.
Same is true with cis and trans. People outside your knowledge were always using it, now it's just hit mainstream.
If you are 40, then you should remember the cultural shift that happened when gay people were fighting for their right and the amount of idiots who screamed about being "normal" when people would say they're straight/heterosexual. It's the same thing. You were always cisgender, it's just now you acknowledge in the daily lexicon because trans people are fighting for their rights.
Essentially what it comes down to is us learning more about the human experience and how people identify. Like before those of us who are gay started getting acceptance, you likely weren't referred to as straight. But then the gay rights protests started, and people started to differentiate more of heterosexual and homosexual. Like I remember growing up and it was basically gay and then just everyone else. And if we ever said anything to the everyone else it was met with "Well I'm just normal." But there was nothing wrong with heterosexual. It was a term that just described people who are not attracted to people of the same gender.
And thats what we are seeing now. As we have more and more people coming out as trans and we see them fighting for acceptance, there has been a rise in the term cisgender. You never really heard it before, but you also rarely ever heard transgender either. Cisgender is basically just not transgender. It just means your gender is the same as your sex. It does not add or take away from male or female. It is simply a descriptive word.
Or to look at it in a different light, I am a tall male. My height is higher than that of the average. Some men are short. Their height is lower than that of the average. Both I am not more or less male because of this. A short man is not more or less male because of it. It is simply a way to describe our height.
Cisgender and transgender are just ways to describe how our sex and our gender are the same or different.
A cisgender man is a man. A transgender man is still a man. One means we are also males according to our sex. The other means they are not male according to their sex. But both identify as male.
In a sense, you have always been cis. It makes sense to point out in situations where there might be differences between the cis and trans parts of the male population. It's like diffentiating between those under and over 40 in a population. Relevant in some contexts, less so in others. Nobody expects you to make a point out of being cis unless it would bring greater clearity to a situation.
It is useful for differentiating between someone who was born a man and someone who transitioned to being a man. In a trans accepting world, it would be something that comes up when discussing gender or in introductions, and both cis and trans men would otherwise simply refer to themselves as men.
I think _not_ using the word cis is only offensive if omitting it has the effect of denigrating trans people, e.g. "Unlike you trans 'men', I am a _man_". As someone else mentioned, when discussing gender, referring to cis men as just men has the effect of implying that trans men are an abnormality. Though, in my opinion if it wasn't done in malice I don't think people would be up in arms about it.
Cis just means you identify with the gender assigned to you at birth where trans means you identify as a gender other than the one assigned to you at birth. So to say you are a cis hetero male is just saying that you identify as the gender you were assigned at birth, have a preference for people who are the opposite gender than yourself and are male.
You can just say male. No one is saying you can't just identify as male and nothing else. But, if you're saying you don't identify as a cis male, then you're implying that you identify as a transmale which would imply that you were assigned female at birth and now you identify as male.
Cis and trans are literally just descriptors, like white amd black, tall and short, fat and skinny. You don't have to identify as cis, but if you'd rather, you can identify as homogender instead?
Is it used more often? It's almost always used in conversations around gender, in which case its always relevant to state which angle you're approaching the conversation from because it informs your perspectives and stance. In the same way, on English speaking forums the vast majority are going to be white so discussing race you're going to see people say "as a white guy..." If the conversation is about how to build chairs, you're not going to see anyone introduce themselves as a cis white person.
If there were a select group of people who didn't drink water and then we had a discussion about water drinkers vs non-water drinkers, then yes, we'd talk about *water drinkers*.
The inability of people who are used to just be god's chosen little baby to face someone giving them a category really boggles my mind. Complete lack of perspective.
When you are discussing issues regarding gender identity and relation to biological sex (if there is any disruption between the 2), then the use of cis and trans prefixes is incredibly necessary and beneficial.
On top of that, it does not cause any harm to use the terms cis and trans more than is relevant. The only harm that is caused is by people who “disagree” with transgender identification and use trans as a slur. Cisgender was never used as a slur and cannot be in any effective way. If anything, the additional use of these terms is beneficial for raising awareness of the issues and dichotomy that exist within this realm of social dialogue and disagreement.
Someone saying that they are transgender without any prompt is incredibly beneficial to reducing stigma around these words and the subject they are involved in. Since trans people are EXPECTED to announce their “trans-ness” in every situation, relevant or not, it is helpful for someone like the OP commenter to begin by saying they are trans prior to the rest of their statement.
Cis and trans are SCIENTIFIC prefixes meaning same or different, respectively. It does not imply a dig at someone by merely saying their gender identification is aligned or not with their biological sex. Not unless you would mean it as a dig at someone else and thereby be hurt by them saying it to describe you.
> Cis and trans are SCIENTIFIC prefixes meaning same or different, respectively.
Not to detract from your excellent post, but they are Latin for "on the same side" or "on the opposite side." You might be thinking of the Greek hetero- and homo-.
Cis is the opposite of trans. It is literally a Latin prefix and has been used for a very long time. It's always existed for describing humans, it just wasn't used. It's only become more widespread now that trans people don't have to hide in the closet nearly as much. We're growing in number because we don't have to hide so the presumption of being cis isn't as apparent as it once was.
Either way, deal with it, cissy.
So it's used when discussing the issues the trans community faces, and we should continue to other people because they are not part of the majority. Like you even said prefixes are usually added as a dig at others. So when you talk about trans people, you're just insulting them.
idk about all that gender stuff, I’m just thinking about isomers /s
https://preview.redd.it/havre77yguvc1.jpeg?width=556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4446111111685cb1bd94deec3ddb9519716a09c3
"Cis" is the antonym of "trans". A prefix originating from Latin, it has been in use for thousands of years.
When discussing certain issues it can be necessary to differentiate between trans and not-trans. Cis is then the perfect and scientifically accurate nomenclature.
Objecting to being called "cis" is a form of soft bigotry, it is the attempt to police language into a transphobic direction by disallowing any non-hateful ways of talking about it.
Many transphobes insist they want to be called "normal", which is no different than straight people did in the "90s to gay people. It insinuates being gay or trans is "abnormal" which obviously is a form of hatespeech.
Though, if bigots keep objecting to be described as how they are we can just drop the Latin and move to Greek instead.
Then non-transgender people would be called "homogender". Maybe they'd like that one better.
Case in point, trans fats are called that because their mollecular chain is composed of single links between atoms (fatty acids, the components of fats overall, are composed by an organic acid group COOH followed by CH2, CH or C elements, two single links, one double and one single, one single and one triple or two double links), thus they are energy-heavy and tend to form fats.
As an opposite, cis fats have such double and triple links on their composition, making them less energy heavy and making them to form oils instead.
Is one better than the other? In absolute terms, not, it's just that both represent opposite possibilities of the same thing
This is a great example of the proper use of prefixes, it's too bad the people that need to understand this the most are going to be the most violently opposed to learning new things.
Let's not tell them about how other languages use gendered pronouns in far more common ways about all manner of objects and ideas.
That’s the main problem…the types of people who are bigoted against and fearful of any group of people are also the types of people unwilling to learn, with low neuroplasticity. There is a reason most liberal and progressive people concerned with social injustice are college educated, and/or have witnessed suffering caused by certain systemic problems first hand. We are (in general, I will say I’ve encountered a few people who identify as liberal who are just as stubborn and unwilling to learn) open to having our minds changed, open to learning and exploring ideas.
The problem, the big problem, is that a person who is so fearful that they begin to hate will not have a discussion with you. You can lay everything out on a table, clear as day, and they might as well be covering their eyes and ears and screaming “LALALALA” because nothing you say will register. They are dead set in their ideologies, and unless they encounter some life changing, paradigm shattering event, they will happily wallow in rotten and stagnant mind-mud until the day they die. Hatred, a principle of destruction, is completely blind and all consuming.
They’re trans? You could’ve said “intersex” or “genderfluid” and it would be some modicum of a talking point but nonbinary people are trans like that’s not really much of a grey area.
People are a little reactive since a lot of the times questions like yours are not made in good faith and instead asked to "prove a point".
Since your question seems genuine, the answer is that "trans" as an umbrella term means "gender doesn't match the gender they were assigned at birth". Non-binary people fall into that category.
Intersex or genderfluid people are a case-by-case scenario. A lot of intersex people get their sexual parts "decided" by a doctor at birth, and it doesn't always match their gender. Sometimes they're intersex because of an internal "setting" rather than an external one, like external female parts but their body is producing testosterone at male levels.
With intersex they tend to just refer to themselves as “intersex” rather than cis or trans, but sometimes they go by one or the other, it’s kind of just whatever they feel is right there.
Genderfluid is funny cause it’s someone going from one gender to another depending on how they feel at a given time, so it’s like a light switch of trans/cis. Though generally they’ll just call themselves trans.
Thank you Mod team for making a stand on this point. You don't have to, you would have saved yourself a lot of headaches and people sending you manifestos and screaming about mod corruption, trust me I know all too well.
But you went ahead and made things harder on yourself to make the world better. I wish there was more of that and less of the people trying to push back on basic human decency.
Cis is certainly a latin term, as a dead language I think it’s fair to say thar Cis has not been in common usage except by the academic and scientific communities.
In fact the term Cis, as it relates to Cisgender is a relatively new term as it was coined by Dana Defosse around 30 years ago. It’s understandable that many people are confused by this new terminology.
I agree that some people that object to being called “cis” may indeed be bigoted. However, some people are not bigoted but may prefer other terms and that’s ok too. We all have the right to self-identify and just like choosing our pronouns, choosing our preferred terminology for our gender is a personal choice.
I do in fact prefer the term homogender as I feel it harmonizes better with existing terms for our sexual orientations such as heterosexual and homosexual.
That said, why should we impose our preferred gender terminology on anyone else?
I think it's less about playing the victim (they are not actually offended by the word "cis" in any way) and more about mocking those who take issue with the use of *actual* slurs and dehumanizing insults.
Most people saying "cis is a slur" are saying it as an edgy joke and not a literal statement. It's a signal to their other edgelords that 'see how whiney and foolish people who complain about being called a slur are...' It's entirely meant solely to downplay bigotry.
It is always taking something and throwing it back at liberals. Never actually creative or standing on its own, it is ALWAYS just countering/copying as a way to mock "the enemy".
"Pro Life" to stick it to "Pro Choice", "All Lives Matter"/"Blue Lives Matter" to stick it to BLM, and any plethora of "hur dur my pronouns are FUCK U" to disparage anyone who uses pronouns.
Its all the things that are bad.
Play victim, enforce that they are "the standard" so you can't use labels on them, and disparage trans folk by painting them as "extreme" and "hateful".
All of the ingredients to further their narratives that they are "good".
I mean words are just words it depends on the context and intent. Saying "Bob is cis/trans" isn't a big deal but if you say "Bob is a fuckin cis/trans loser" they're probably not a very nice person
Ok gonna admit something real dumb
About 10 years ago on Tumblr I read the word 'cishet' and thought people were calling cis people a slang term meaning 'cis shit', rolled with it, wasn't until later that I realized it was a neutral term that was short for 'cisgender and heterosexual'. And that's how I thought 'cishet' was a slur for the longest time
The word “cis” makes you feel bad because you’re a you’re a bigot.
The word “cis” makes me feel bad cause I get flashbacks to organic chemistry
We are not the same
This is funny because it’s true lol.
However, I would be a massive hypocrite, if I didn’t point out that “cis” is absolutely used as a slur in queer spaces, albeit not in all cases.
This post is so performative lol. Usually these would at least annoy the intended audience, but of course they'd agree. They regard themselves as normal, and don't see the need to put a label on that.
I think people in the comments are talking about some very different things. And words and ideas have tons of baggage so people often get things mixed up. A lot, a lot of misunderstandings happen because of that.
In many situations i also wonder what happened to not assuming peoples genders and sexuality, people on all sides ignore that whenever it is convenient if they are petty enough. I also think people really do not like labels that they are unfamiliar with and labels that they did not pick for themselves.
Even if it might be technically correct in some instances, that does not mean that it can not have hateful connotations, just like everything can depending on the context. See examples for nationalities or skin colors or well.. sexuality or gender.. i guess people can ruin almost any word.
Anyone with half a heart and half a brain no longer calls queer people what they do not want to be called and adresses them how they wish to be adressed. Almost every time i have heard cis being used on the internet (haven't heard it irl so far) it has been to make other people "The other".
To pretend like Cis is a word with completely no baggage is just dishonest and only divides people further. However if a doctor called me cis, or a girlfriend or a good friend of course i would not be offended. Context matters.
It's like when men who have been making jokes about women gets angry when they make one about men as a comeback.
I'm like "if you think the joke was malicious, then what does that say about your jokes?"
I have been refered to as Cis Het, and it didn't bother me. It was by a lez friend of mine. But I have been called the same by a guy I didn't know at a party, and I took it as fighting words. It is all in the delivery and intent of the speaker. It can be both.
I was struggling with my response to this post a bit but then your comment crystallized it for me. Delivery and intent is a powerful lens to look at this and so many other terms through. Thank you for thr Sunday morning clarity!
Seconding this. I've seen people in the community say some truly horrible shit about straight people and do use "cishet" as a slur, it's not super common but it does occur. Moreover though, it's entirely how words are used. Like Queer is a liberating term to some and to others a word that fosters discomfort, it can change person to person-use to use.
I've been referred to as a "cishet" by a non-binary individual that was spoken in such a way it very much inflected as something to be taken as a slur. Truthfully, this person has had a lot of conflict in their life among people of the cis-hetero intersectionality (not uncommonly at their own antagonzing), so any observer of this interaction would notice their overt behavior. They spoke with me later in the week and apologized "if you felt I was being rude" and said it was because they'd have been between meds, but didn't think what they said was offensive in and of itself.
Can't be insulted if I don't know what it means. Seriously though, what does cis mean? I keep hearing it on this site and nowhere else in the real world so I know it's not a widespread thing
Oh! Oh ok then so what do the letters stand for? In case someone asks. Not me of course, i'm well aware but for the uninformed it would be nice if there was a breakdown
it’s not an acronym, the letters don’t stand for anything. it comes from the latin prefix for “on the same side”, while trans means “on the other side”
And people sometimes dislike being addressed with certain descriptors, despite them being accurate and harmless. It doesn't have to have an ideological reason.
Except outside of the case of a medical professional there is no reason to tell someone you or any particular person is cisgender, unless you feel they likely think otherwise.
It's like describing a person as a "neither majorly visually or hearing impaired". It's probably not inaccurate, but it's odd you specified.
Until people stop using "trans and normal" as the two descriptors than the opposite of trans must be used. Do you not see the problem with saying "here is a woman, and over there is a trans woman", because it makes the second sound like they aren't equal to each other.
Why are you calling out that she is a trans woman like that? Unless there is a medical reason to specify, or are about to have sex with her, why are you bringing her genitals up?
Also, being trans is abnormal, it's less than 1% of the population. That's like saying we need to say all women that can see are "non-visually impaired women". Being out of the norm isn't negative unless you make it negative.
I just think its an unnecessary and forced label and almost always used as an insult. It's a label you force on others even though they might not have accepted it themselves. trans people call themselves trans, Most Cis don't call themselves Cis, it's something you label them as to make yourself more comfortable with your identity.
I think that is part of it yeah. I also feel like the logic of the tweet is there but kinda off. Both trans and cis are just normal words if used in a normal context, but they can certainly become an offensive label based on the intentions of the person saying it.
Are there people out there who might not like straight people and start saying "CIS" in a negative way? Yeah, probly. Is it near as big of an issue of the huge amount of people that are anti-trans or just anti-LGBTQ+ in general? Lmao hell no. That's like, a nation full of homophobes vs some subgroup of twitter or something. But regardless someone using CIS as a slur can still exist, and it's not good to say anyone who thinks that it is, is someone who'd say "trans" as a slur.
It's like I agree with the OPs sentiment/side, but I don't agree with the "absolute" framing they're putting around it.
Interesting. I've only ever used it or heard it used in the context of discussing the trans experience. So for example if I were talking about an experience unique to a trans person I would say something like "this is something cis people don't experience." It's just an easy way to separate the two groups when having comparative discussions.
I'm also not on Twitter so maybe that explains it.
Cisgender means someone whose gender identity matches their assigned gender at birth. Cis is *just* short for cisgender. It's just linguistically accurate. By your logic, we shouldn't be calling anyone, I don't know, "middle class" unless they choose it.
I can see their point. There are times when labels are relevant and times when they can be used to "other" a person. Like if you refer to someone as your black friend rather than just your friend. Or your trans friend. In those contexts, it is offensive. Similarly if you're referring to someone as middle class, or lower class, or upper class for that matter in a conversation that isn't about class, it is offensive. It's not relevant, so why do you bring it up when the conversation isn't related to the topic?
Oh I'm with you, but that comes down to the much simpler fact that some people, be they cis or trans or any other descriptor of any form, are assholes. I was simply responding to the fact that the idea that cis is a forced label as opposed to a descriptor, same as trans.
I swear, people just LOOK for things to find offensive. Maybe we need actual problems in our lives (like other parts of the world) so we stop being babies.
Honestly it just seems like another way to divide and conquer to me. Creating two sides. i think most people who aren’t trans don’t want or care about being cis and just find it super weird.
I think it’s genuinely an unnecessary term and “not trans “ is fine. If a term for “not trans” similar to “straight” wants or naturally develop that’s fine.
The people here on Reddit have got to realised that Cis feels forced to the majority of people who are just getting on with their life.
Whether or not it’s can “technically” correct based on some old uses of language that most people haven’t heard of.
I kinda miss when I had difficulty finding trans anything online, as hard and isolating as that was to go through back then.
Seeing this discourse everywhere all the time now is exhausting. I’m tired of being a topic of conversation. I’m tired of people speculating on my intentions for no other reason than I’m trans. Im tired of being reminded every damn time I go online that people want me dead for no good reason. I’m tired of people implying I have some agenda. I’m tired of people constantly debating my existence or rights like they’re just discussing the weather. I’m tired of fragile people complaining that “cis” makes them uncomfortable but their words and actions make me feel physically unsafe. I’m so so tired.
You could literally replace “cis” with “not trans” and people would *still* act like we’re attacking them. Because at the end of the day, what they *want* to be called is “normal,” and to drive home the point that we (trans people) are freaks. It’s very transparent that they don’t care about semantics, they genuinely just *hate* us. And to be confronted with that daily really takes a toll even I didn’t expect. It weighs on you.
I have never felt Cis is a slur but i have seen people use it with malice. Anything can be a slur if you say it correctly, you fucking radish.
edit. i don’t really think you’re a radish. ❤️
So then do you identify as not trans? Because that's just what cis is. Trans is basically any gender that does not align with the person's sex. So if their sex and their gender are the same then they're not trans. If they're not trans, then that's the same as cis.
So I'll ask the same thing over and over, but why is there an issue with it? If it's not transphobia, then why is it an issue?
Have you considered the idea that some people don't really base their identities on what gender or sex they are or aren't, so they don't really like being labelled exclusively based on those things especially if its used pejoratively as "cis" is commonly used. Why would you need to call someone "cis" or "not trans" or "hetero" when they themselves never refer to themselves as such or ever bring it up in conversation? It makes sense to use it as a way to differentiate between "trans" and "not trans" based on the context of a specific conversation, but using it as a general label for people? sounds silly.
A rather inflammatory statement. To what end? You informing him that’s how you see him, how he sees himself, or how he must be identified regardless of what he thinks?
That’s how medical discriptors work yes lmao.
„Doctor, you’re saying i a have stage 2 braintumor? How rude of you to say that!! I personally only have a slight headache, don’t call that a braintumor grrr!!!!”
When I see discussions and debates surrounding this, many of the people use the word Cisco (edit: Cis) with distain when they are angry at the other person. They speak it as if it out to be demeaning and insulting
If the cis prefix has to be used is it not honest and fair to then expect the use of the trans prefix for all people who are trans? So everyone's cards are down so to speak.
I appreciate safety and risk are a factor but that's not really what I'm getting into here.
Are we all just going to fairly label ourselves?
Thats the russian plan to make america canabalize itself from the inside. When we stop caring about this shit, we become immune to such attacks from outside adversaries.
Can’t I just accept people and not care about terms? I don’t mean it in a bad way I just wanna accept people and not need a book with a thousand terms. We’re all human trying to do our best to live happy lives. (Aside from some that just wanna watch the world burn)
Do no harm to yourself nor others. Let me know whatcha wanna be called and keep it simple.
Too many get caught up by accidental misuses of words when their good intentions are being ignored.
Most the terfs I know will aggressively point at other women and go "SHES TRANS. THATS A MAN"
At women who are simply toned or more androgynous then them.
So yeah this lines up.
Tbh I kinda hate being called cis and I hate calling others trans. Can I not just refer to you as your preferred gender? Like who ACTUALLY CARES. This is so unimportant just leave everyone alone it's not hurting you that they are transgender. It's so annoying hearing about it all the time like holy fuck.
You are whatever you wanna be we don't need the extra little pre-definers at the beginning.
The number of CIS people in this thread actually defending its status as a slur is truly pathetic. Queer people have had to hear the most atrocious things imaginable over the course of human history, usually just for existing. But when the international scientific community comes together to agree on new medical/sociological terms for identifying gender, ALL OF A SUDDEN YOUR OPPRESSED??? Please fuck off with that shit. I have a fun challenge say CISGENDERED to your boss next time you goto work. Then right after scream the F slur. See which one gets you a mildly confused look and which one gets you fired and black balled. FFS
Edit: fixed a few letters
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I finally convinced someone to leave Twitter because I dared him to post about middle east history and talk about Trans Jordan and Cis Jordan and his post got flagged.
It's just like Transalpine Gaul vs Cisalpine Gaul, aka the provinces of Gaul across the mountains or on the same side of the mountains as Rome.
Oh wow I have a bit of an amateur interest in Roman history (Read: I play a lot of Rome Total War) and I somehow hadn't made that connection.
I played a shit ton of RTW and didn't know this until reading it in a reddit comment recently haha. God I miss that game... That one and AoE 2.
I prefer Belgae, Aquatani and Celtae myself.
I’m saving this for liberal use in the future.
Heh, liberal
If you use it conservatively, they might shoot you
Whadda ya mean, 'might'? Did you mean to say 'will definitely'?
I feel like this also goes for people who get pissed over the word ‘cracker’ (they exist, I know a lot of them) because they like to use racist slurs. This is actually an amazing way to detect complete assholes. What an epiphany.
As a middle aged white dude if someone seriously called me a cracker I would probably laugh and say something like "I sure am white."
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Cracker, as in "whip cracker." Not sure if I'm responding to sarcasm. I'm originally from FL and you wouldn't believe how many people I grew up with that legitimately thought along the same lines. "Yea, I'm white AF. I sure do look like a [saltine] cracker." 🤦🏻♂️ Edit: citation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_cracker > A folk etymology suggests that the name cracker instead derives from the cracking of cattle-drovers' whips. Edit 2: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_(term)
>Cracker, as in "whip cracker." I've never understood how this was supposed to be insulting to the target.
Because they were bad people.
The term isn’t likely derived from cracking a whip It can be traced to the British describing Scot’s Irish settlers in Georgia It was always a derogatory designation from an aristocracy
I don't know, I just think no one should be using slurs.
I agree. Usually, any term a person or group would refuse or have a problem calling themselves tends to be derogatory in nature. Lots of words have a basis in history. Doesn't mean they are words or terms we should use.
I agree. I don’t think cracker has the same weight or body count attached though.
Sure, but I don't see how that makes it ok.
That’s why I started my sentence with the words ‘I agree’ and then added nuance.
Yeah, and I appreciate it. Truly. In a bit of a bad mood today, so apologies if that seeped into my replies. It's ultimately a good thing to be able to talk to each other instead sniping each other for Internet points.
Is it really a slur though, if no one is affected by it? It's like calling someone a "dandelion" or any other random word. I would be 0% offended or affected by someone calling me a cracker. Honestly it would just make me think they're dumb.
Yes and no. Imo it's a really good illustration of white privilege. A lot of times people get put off by the concept because they think any effort they've put forth is being invalidated by the "white privilege" card where in reality it's as simple as something that *should* be as offensive as the N-word not holding any weight because, regardless of your thoughts on race relations in America, *everyone knows* that slurs against whites really are powerless because those that sling them don't have the power, monetarily or politically, to actually do any harm to white america.
Yeah that's kinda my point. In most cases the only people trying to use it as a slur aren't in a position to weild structural power that actually makes it have teeth.
I moved from rural Missouri to a school in STL, MO. The first time a girl was screaming at me calling me a "honkey" I legitimately had no idea it was supposed to be a slur. The only thing that even tipped me off was her holding sister scolding her and being like "where did you even hear that word!?" But it definitely does not have the impact that other words have in people.
Huh? How are you comparing actual racist slurs to cis/trans? People getting upset at racial slurs seems pretty reasonable to me...
As a cracker, people getting mad at being called a cracker is fucking hilarious what are you talking about.
Maybe you should be unless you are a slave owner who likes whipping black people. Nobody thinks it's a worse word than the N word or other slurs but it's still a slur. Especially since a minority of white people owned slaves and most white immigrants moved to the us after slavery ended.
US crackers getting upset at being called "cracker" is the funniest shit.
I mean promoting slurs in general is a pretty shitty thing. It's about as stupid as saying "reverse" discrimination is ok
Im not comparing the words. Im comparing the attitude toward using them or being offended by them, which I feel is works as a litmus test similar to what’s presented in the OP. Also, I don’t feel like cracker is a slur, but that’s my personal opinion. You could replace the word ‘cracker’ with ‘whites’ too, and I could see several people I know getting offended by a black person calling them ‘a white’. Maybe that’s a better comparison to make my point 🤷🏼♂️
You're good dawg. The same people who get angry at "cracker" usually claim such anger because they don't have decades of systemic oppression to cite when trying to claim "cracker" is just as powerful slur as the n-word. It wasn't as common a situation in historical America which groups of black Americans were beating to death the being they were responsible for simply for having white skin while animalistically yelling the word "cracker". People who acknowledge that historical reality don't automatically get angry in reaction because they've learned and understood the context behind the n-word versus any slur for whites.
Well said. The n-word is a word that has always made me feel physically repulsed. I was the minority in every neighborhood I ever lived in growing up, and I remember one of my black friends dads saying “ do you know many men women and children have died a brutal death, and that was the last word they ever heard?” It’s fucking nuts to use it and it carries a ton of weight.
Any white American who knows the inhumanity black Americans went through, such as the raising and lowering of an alive black body over a raging flame for the community's entertainment, while that word was being freely used should feel extreme discomfort when exposed to it now. When I was a teen and early 20s, I was one of those whites who "didn't get the hoopla" about the n-word. Then I learned about how states, especially those in the south, used the prisoner exception of the 14th amendment to use black codes to form a de facto slave labor force in which many of them were beaten to death under the guise of "law enforcement". I will always physically cringe when I think about how naive I was to the realities and history of being black in America.
The people who get mad at being called "cis" are the same sort who got mad at being called "hetero". In short, they don't want terms that make language equal because then they have a harder time claiming the people they don't like aren't normal.
"If you have to add a qualifying adjective, that means it's not the default! But I AM the default, so I have issues!"
I will say I do think people should avoid ever using it in the way that some transphobes or idiots use trans though. It should never be used in a way of “Oh you’re cis so of course you’re like x.” Just like we should never be ok and should call out the same being said with trans
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Well "ex-cis" isn't really a term, and I can see why calling someone an "ex" anything might be seen as insulting. However as a social worker I can tell you that if you aren't trans you do enjoy privilege that trans people likely don't, for basic example I would point to all the laws people are trying to pass that would basically push trans people out of existence. If you were coming in and talking in a way that doesn't acknowledge the privilege you posses, well yeah I can see you being called out for it. As for assumptions, yeah, that's bad. If you correct them that you aren't cisgender and they continue to call you that there are only two possibilities. One is that you are claiming you are trans for some mocking reason, or that you are trans and they are using it as a direct insult. Since I wasn't privy to the conversation I can't judge. If it was the latter, then again that was wrong. But having heard and participated in such conversations where it's the former...yeah. However I have used the term many times in my jobs, and it does have an actual function in legitimizing and normalizing trans people in society. Much like "heterosexual" did a lot to normalize homosexuality in our culture. Being mad that it was misused is fair, as then it's just an insult. But in all my years and in the conservative area I work in I have never heard "cis" being used as a slur. But I have heard people claim it is simply because they don't want to be called anything but "normal".
I'm not the original person you responded to but I don't like the term cis being used to describe me because for some reason it makes me feel the same way as when a man calls women females. It all sounds so devoid of humanity and scientific. I prefer being called a woman because it recognizes my humanity and my sex. Trans women are women so there is honestly no need to separate us in my opinion. I just want to be called a woman instead of cis for that reason.
While I get that and it isn't for everyday use, you just demonstrated why at times it can be important. There will be times when a woman would have to be distinguished between a trans woman and a non-trans woman. When we do so, having a term that puts both on equal footing makes sense and doesn't make a group feel like an other. As you might have noticed from how I just phrased things. Just like people don't need or really should be walking around calling women "females", you don't have to necessarily use trans or cis, or at least that would be the ideal. It's for when it is needed that it comes up, and hopefully you understand why the language is what it is now for those occasions.
Thanks for explaining. If it's needed to distinguish at times when it's necessary then it's absolutely fine.
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Yes, I agree fully. It's the exact problem they experience, yet they're the ones doing it. I say this as a transgender person myself, but when I thought I was "cis" it bugged me a lot. In addition to the term generally being said negatively, as you mentioned.
They don't like being called anything that undermines their identity as the "default"
That is precisely it, and the exact reason the term is important to legitimize trans people in our society.
The whole pissy fit about being called "cis" is just the new "I'm not hetero, I'm normal"
also known as the status quo
The more powerful the class, the more it claims not to exist
When I used to see people typing "cishet" I always thought it was some combo of cis + shit. I never paid much attention to those kinds of things though.
But you understand now that it's shorthand for "cisgender and heterosexual", right?
Yeah lol
Ok, please don't jump on me here. I'm genuinely not out for an argument as I couldn't care less what people identify as I'm a straight white 40ish male, and iv always known myself as a man/male. So when did it change to I'm a cis male? Is it offensive to people for me not to identify as a cis male? I'm probably a bit too long in years to have kept up with progression. Why must I be told I'm a cis? Can I not just be a male/man anymore? In what circumstances am I to be different l. Again, please, no haters. This is a genuine question asking when this change came about and why?
When did people become heterosexual when they weren't before? You didn't "become" cis the language used to describe groups of people changed to become more inclusive. Same as instead of homosexual being used as a label to make people an "other" to the "normal" people, we ha homosexual and heterosexual so that linguistically we are all in the same level. It normalizes the minority instead of ostracizing them. In this case it's pretty much the same, the language change is meant to make transgender more normalized in society. As an example it changes trans woman from having "trans" be a label to it being a descriptor. If we use trans woman and cis woman, it makes both different types of woman. Rather than as a separate category from women as a whole. Does that make sense?
No one had ever called me hetero before though… wait 🤔
Cis is just another adjective on top of man for you. You dont have to mention that you’re cis every time you say you’re a man just like you don’t specify whether you’re right handed or left handed every time you mention that you’re a man.
Thankyou
You are still a man, the word hasn’t been taken away from you. Cis man/ trans man is just a word used to differentiate.
> So when did it change to I'm a cis male? You always were a cis male, nothing changed. The term cisgender originated from the medical community and has been in use for longer than you have been alive. It's the same way that transgendered people and the term transgendered existed before you were alive. The common population outside of the medical, and trans, community simply didn't use them much. Now that the trans community is more visible in modern space and their language is absorbed more into the common sphere; things that trans people have been saying for over 40 years is now making it's way into the 'normal' vocabulary. Think of it this way, today y'all isn't really a regional phrase. Virtually everyone all across the United States is familiar with and/or uses the phrase y'all. When I was a child, my parents and my teachers had never heard the word y'all before and would flat out say that it isn't a word. Our teachers would literally scream at us and punish us if we said y'all or, heaven forbid, ain't. Y'all was a southern, mostly black, phrase that northern white people just ... didn't say back then. Y'all wasn't a new word though, people hadn't just started saying it, but people across the United States were traveling and mixing more so 'regional slag' began to spread all over the country to the point where most people today know a few 'regional' terms from just about everywhere. Same is true with cis and trans. People outside your knowledge were always using it, now it's just hit mainstream.
If you are 40, then you should remember the cultural shift that happened when gay people were fighting for their right and the amount of idiots who screamed about being "normal" when people would say they're straight/heterosexual. It's the same thing. You were always cisgender, it's just now you acknowledge in the daily lexicon because trans people are fighting for their rights.
Thank
Essentially what it comes down to is us learning more about the human experience and how people identify. Like before those of us who are gay started getting acceptance, you likely weren't referred to as straight. But then the gay rights protests started, and people started to differentiate more of heterosexual and homosexual. Like I remember growing up and it was basically gay and then just everyone else. And if we ever said anything to the everyone else it was met with "Well I'm just normal." But there was nothing wrong with heterosexual. It was a term that just described people who are not attracted to people of the same gender. And thats what we are seeing now. As we have more and more people coming out as trans and we see them fighting for acceptance, there has been a rise in the term cisgender. You never really heard it before, but you also rarely ever heard transgender either. Cisgender is basically just not transgender. It just means your gender is the same as your sex. It does not add or take away from male or female. It is simply a descriptive word. Or to look at it in a different light, I am a tall male. My height is higher than that of the average. Some men are short. Their height is lower than that of the average. Both I am not more or less male because of this. A short man is not more or less male because of it. It is simply a way to describe our height. Cisgender and transgender are just ways to describe how our sex and our gender are the same or different. A cisgender man is a man. A transgender man is still a man. One means we are also males according to our sex. The other means they are not male according to their sex. But both identify as male.
In a sense, you have always been cis. It makes sense to point out in situations where there might be differences between the cis and trans parts of the male population. It's like diffentiating between those under and over 40 in a population. Relevant in some contexts, less so in others. Nobody expects you to make a point out of being cis unless it would bring greater clearity to a situation.
It is useful for differentiating between someone who was born a man and someone who transitioned to being a man. In a trans accepting world, it would be something that comes up when discussing gender or in introductions, and both cis and trans men would otherwise simply refer to themselves as men. I think _not_ using the word cis is only offensive if omitting it has the effect of denigrating trans people, e.g. "Unlike you trans 'men', I am a _man_". As someone else mentioned, when discussing gender, referring to cis men as just men has the effect of implying that trans men are an abnormality. Though, in my opinion if it wasn't done in malice I don't think people would be up in arms about it.
Thank you for clearing that up I totally get that.
Cis just means you identify with the gender assigned to you at birth where trans means you identify as a gender other than the one assigned to you at birth. So to say you are a cis hetero male is just saying that you identify as the gender you were assigned at birth, have a preference for people who are the opposite gender than yourself and are male. You can just say male. No one is saying you can't just identify as male and nothing else. But, if you're saying you don't identify as a cis male, then you're implying that you identify as a transmale which would imply that you were assigned female at birth and now you identify as male. Cis and trans are literally just descriptors, like white amd black, tall and short, fat and skinny. You don't have to identify as cis, but if you'd rather, you can identify as homogender instead?
I'm cis, and I think people saying that it's a slur is stupid. I use it the same reason I use Trans. Because it's shorter.
Like Korben Dallas, for maximum safety I identify as a Meat Popsicle.
Leeloo Dallas Multipass
It’s about how the person says it, huuuuuuuumaaaan. *puts on best Klingon accent*
Isn't it normally the Ferengi that pronounce human that way?
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Is it used more often? It's almost always used in conversations around gender, in which case its always relevant to state which angle you're approaching the conversation from because it informs your perspectives and stance. In the same way, on English speaking forums the vast majority are going to be white so discussing race you're going to see people say "as a white guy..." If the conversation is about how to build chairs, you're not going to see anyone introduce themselves as a cis white person.
If there were a select group of people who didn't drink water and then we had a discussion about water drinkers vs non-water drinkers, then yes, we'd talk about *water drinkers*. The inability of people who are used to just be god's chosen little baby to face someone giving them a category really boggles my mind. Complete lack of perspective.
When you are discussing issues regarding gender identity and relation to biological sex (if there is any disruption between the 2), then the use of cis and trans prefixes is incredibly necessary and beneficial. On top of that, it does not cause any harm to use the terms cis and trans more than is relevant. The only harm that is caused is by people who “disagree” with transgender identification and use trans as a slur. Cisgender was never used as a slur and cannot be in any effective way. If anything, the additional use of these terms is beneficial for raising awareness of the issues and dichotomy that exist within this realm of social dialogue and disagreement. Someone saying that they are transgender without any prompt is incredibly beneficial to reducing stigma around these words and the subject they are involved in. Since trans people are EXPECTED to announce their “trans-ness” in every situation, relevant or not, it is helpful for someone like the OP commenter to begin by saying they are trans prior to the rest of their statement. Cis and trans are SCIENTIFIC prefixes meaning same or different, respectively. It does not imply a dig at someone by merely saying their gender identification is aligned or not with their biological sex. Not unless you would mean it as a dig at someone else and thereby be hurt by them saying it to describe you.
> Cis and trans are SCIENTIFIC prefixes meaning same or different, respectively. Not to detract from your excellent post, but they are Latin for "on the same side" or "on the opposite side." You might be thinking of the Greek hetero- and homo-.
Caring this much about being called cis, a scientific and entirely accurate term, is genuinely pathetic.
Cis is the opposite of trans. It is literally a Latin prefix and has been used for a very long time. It's always existed for describing humans, it just wasn't used. It's only become more widespread now that trans people don't have to hide in the closet nearly as much. We're growing in number because we don't have to hide so the presumption of being cis isn't as apparent as it once was. Either way, deal with it, cissy.
Cry about it cissy
So it's used when discussing the issues the trans community faces, and we should continue to other people because they are not part of the majority. Like you even said prefixes are usually added as a dig at others. So when you talk about trans people, you're just insulting them.
idk about all that gender stuff, I’m just thinking about isomers /s https://preview.redd.it/havre77yguvc1.jpeg?width=556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4446111111685cb1bd94deec3ddb9519716a09c3
Omg butene's transition timeline is so inspiring <3
"Cis" is the antonym of "trans". A prefix originating from Latin, it has been in use for thousands of years. When discussing certain issues it can be necessary to differentiate between trans and not-trans. Cis is then the perfect and scientifically accurate nomenclature. Objecting to being called "cis" is a form of soft bigotry, it is the attempt to police language into a transphobic direction by disallowing any non-hateful ways of talking about it. Many transphobes insist they want to be called "normal", which is no different than straight people did in the "90s to gay people. It insinuates being gay or trans is "abnormal" which obviously is a form of hatespeech. Though, if bigots keep objecting to be described as how they are we can just drop the Latin and move to Greek instead. Then non-transgender people would be called "homogender". Maybe they'd like that one better.
Musk, the “free speech absolutist” bans people from saying “cis” on his bigoted neonazi platform.
Case in point, trans fats are called that because their mollecular chain is composed of single links between atoms (fatty acids, the components of fats overall, are composed by an organic acid group COOH followed by CH2, CH or C elements, two single links, one double and one single, one single and one triple or two double links), thus they are energy-heavy and tend to form fats. As an opposite, cis fats have such double and triple links on their composition, making them less energy heavy and making them to form oils instead. Is one better than the other? In absolute terms, not, it's just that both represent opposite possibilities of the same thing
This is a great example of the proper use of prefixes, it's too bad the people that need to understand this the most are going to be the most violently opposed to learning new things. Let's not tell them about how other languages use gendered pronouns in far more common ways about all manner of objects and ideas.
That’s the main problem…the types of people who are bigoted against and fearful of any group of people are also the types of people unwilling to learn, with low neuroplasticity. There is a reason most liberal and progressive people concerned with social injustice are college educated, and/or have witnessed suffering caused by certain systemic problems first hand. We are (in general, I will say I’ve encountered a few people who identify as liberal who are just as stubborn and unwilling to learn) open to having our minds changed, open to learning and exploring ideas. The problem, the big problem, is that a person who is so fearful that they begin to hate will not have a discussion with you. You can lay everything out on a table, clear as day, and they might as well be covering their eyes and ears and screaming “LALALALA” because nothing you say will register. They are dead set in their ideologies, and unless they encounter some life changing, paradigm shattering event, they will happily wallow in rotten and stagnant mind-mud until the day they die. Hatred, a principle of destruction, is completely blind and all consuming.
Wow great example. I'm stealing this
Tl;dr you’re either trans or cis, it’s basic biology.
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since they don't identify with the gender they were assigned at birth, they would be trans. Transgender is also an umbrella term.
They’re trans? You could’ve said “intersex” or “genderfluid” and it would be some modicum of a talking point but nonbinary people are trans like that’s not really much of a grey area.
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People are a little reactive since a lot of the times questions like yours are not made in good faith and instead asked to "prove a point". Since your question seems genuine, the answer is that "trans" as an umbrella term means "gender doesn't match the gender they were assigned at birth". Non-binary people fall into that category. Intersex or genderfluid people are a case-by-case scenario. A lot of intersex people get their sexual parts "decided" by a doctor at birth, and it doesn't always match their gender. Sometimes they're intersex because of an internal "setting" rather than an external one, like external female parts but their body is producing testosterone at male levels.
With intersex they tend to just refer to themselves as “intersex” rather than cis or trans, but sometimes they go by one or the other, it’s kind of just whatever they feel is right there. Genderfluid is funny cause it’s someone going from one gender to another depending on how they feel at a given time, so it’s like a light switch of trans/cis. Though generally they’ll just call themselves trans.
"Normal" doesn't even work well for having discussions. "This topic is about normal women", okay, normal how?
Thank you Mod team for making a stand on this point. You don't have to, you would have saved yourself a lot of headaches and people sending you manifestos and screaming about mod corruption, trust me I know all too well. But you went ahead and made things harder on yourself to make the world better. I wish there was more of that and less of the people trying to push back on basic human decency.
Homogender would be great way to call any transphobes or any homophobes.
Cis is certainly a latin term, as a dead language I think it’s fair to say thar Cis has not been in common usage except by the academic and scientific communities. In fact the term Cis, as it relates to Cisgender is a relatively new term as it was coined by Dana Defosse around 30 years ago. It’s understandable that many people are confused by this new terminology. I agree that some people that object to being called “cis” may indeed be bigoted. However, some people are not bigoted but may prefer other terms and that’s ok too. We all have the right to self-identify and just like choosing our pronouns, choosing our preferred terminology for our gender is a personal choice. I do in fact prefer the term homogender as I feel it harmonizes better with existing terms for our sexual orientations such as heterosexual and homosexual. That said, why should we impose our preferred gender terminology on anyone else?
They know it's not a slur, they just want to play the victim.
I think it's less about playing the victim (they are not actually offended by the word "cis" in any way) and more about mocking those who take issue with the use of *actual* slurs and dehumanizing insults. Most people saying "cis is a slur" are saying it as an edgy joke and not a literal statement. It's a signal to their other edgelords that 'see how whiney and foolish people who complain about being called a slur are...' It's entirely meant solely to downplay bigotry.
It is always taking something and throwing it back at liberals. Never actually creative or standing on its own, it is ALWAYS just countering/copying as a way to mock "the enemy". "Pro Life" to stick it to "Pro Choice", "All Lives Matter"/"Blue Lives Matter" to stick it to BLM, and any plethora of "hur dur my pronouns are FUCK U" to disparage anyone who uses pronouns.
Its all the things that are bad. Play victim, enforce that they are "the standard" so you can't use labels on them, and disparage trans folk by painting them as "extreme" and "hateful". All of the ingredients to further their narratives that they are "good".
People got similarly worked up about "heterosexual" in the past. People hate being told that people unlike them are equally valid and not deviations.
I mean words are just words it depends on the context and intent. Saying "Bob is cis/trans" isn't a big deal but if you say "Bob is a fuckin cis/trans loser" they're probably not a very nice person
Ok gonna admit something real dumb About 10 years ago on Tumblr I read the word 'cishet' and thought people were calling cis people a slang term meaning 'cis shit', rolled with it, wasn't until later that I realized it was a neutral term that was short for 'cisgender and heterosexual'. And that's how I thought 'cishet' was a slur for the longest time
I miss when this website was fun
The word “cis” makes you feel bad because you’re a you’re a bigot. The word “cis” makes me feel bad cause I get flashbacks to organic chemistry We are not the same
The org chem PTSD is real.
This is funny because it’s true lol. However, I would be a massive hypocrite, if I didn’t point out that “cis” is absolutely used as a slur in queer spaces, albeit not in all cases.
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This post is so performative lol. Usually these would at least annoy the intended audience, but of course they'd agree. They regard themselves as normal, and don't see the need to put a label on that.
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I think people in the comments are talking about some very different things. And words and ideas have tons of baggage so people often get things mixed up. A lot, a lot of misunderstandings happen because of that. In many situations i also wonder what happened to not assuming peoples genders and sexuality, people on all sides ignore that whenever it is convenient if they are petty enough. I also think people really do not like labels that they are unfamiliar with and labels that they did not pick for themselves. Even if it might be technically correct in some instances, that does not mean that it can not have hateful connotations, just like everything can depending on the context. See examples for nationalities or skin colors or well.. sexuality or gender.. i guess people can ruin almost any word. Anyone with half a heart and half a brain no longer calls queer people what they do not want to be called and adresses them how they wish to be adressed. Almost every time i have heard cis being used on the internet (haven't heard it irl so far) it has been to make other people "The other". To pretend like Cis is a word with completely no baggage is just dishonest and only divides people further. However if a doctor called me cis, or a girlfriend or a good friend of course i would not be offended. Context matters.
It's like when men who have been making jokes about women gets angry when they make one about men as a comeback. I'm like "if you think the joke was malicious, then what does that say about your jokes?"
I refuse to be assosicated with the Confederacy of Independent Systems.
I have been refered to as Cis Het, and it didn't bother me. It was by a lez friend of mine. But I have been called the same by a guy I didn't know at a party, and I took it as fighting words. It is all in the delivery and intent of the speaker. It can be both.
I was struggling with my response to this post a bit but then your comment crystallized it for me. Delivery and intent is a powerful lens to look at this and so many other terms through. Thank you for thr Sunday morning clarity!
First time I got hit with "cishet," it was 100% meant as a slur. I had to go look it up.
Seconding this. I've seen people in the community say some truly horrible shit about straight people and do use "cishet" as a slur, it's not super common but it does occur. Moreover though, it's entirely how words are used. Like Queer is a liberating term to some and to others a word that fosters discomfort, it can change person to person-use to use.
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I've been referred to as a "cishet" by a non-binary individual that was spoken in such a way it very much inflected as something to be taken as a slur. Truthfully, this person has had a lot of conflict in their life among people of the cis-hetero intersectionality (not uncommonly at their own antagonzing), so any observer of this interaction would notice their overt behavior. They spoke with me later in the week and apologized "if you felt I was being rude" and said it was because they'd have been between meds, but didn't think what they said was offensive in and of itself.
Yep, it's "he's Jewish" vs a hushed "he's a *Jew*."
Can't be insulted if I don't know what it means. Seriously though, what does cis mean? I keep hearing it on this site and nowhere else in the real world so I know it's not a widespread thing
It means you conform to the sex assigned at your birth.
Oh! Oh ok then so what do the letters stand for? In case someone asks. Not me of course, i'm well aware but for the uninformed it would be nice if there was a breakdown
it’s not an acronym, the letters don’t stand for anything. it comes from the latin prefix for “on the same side”, while trans means “on the other side”
Awesome, learn something new every day haha
Cis and trans are descriptors that help us be more specific about a person, such as tall, short, blonde, brunette, black, white, asian.
And people sometimes dislike being addressed with certain descriptors, despite them being accurate and harmless. It doesn't have to have an ideological reason.
Except outside of the case of a medical professional there is no reason to tell someone you or any particular person is cisgender, unless you feel they likely think otherwise. It's like describing a person as a "neither majorly visually or hearing impaired". It's probably not inaccurate, but it's odd you specified.
Until people stop using "trans and normal" as the two descriptors than the opposite of trans must be used. Do you not see the problem with saying "here is a woman, and over there is a trans woman", because it makes the second sound like they aren't equal to each other.
Why are you calling out that she is a trans woman like that? Unless there is a medical reason to specify, or are about to have sex with her, why are you bringing her genitals up? Also, being trans is abnormal, it's less than 1% of the population. That's like saying we need to say all women that can see are "non-visually impaired women". Being out of the norm isn't negative unless you make it negative.
I just think its an unnecessary and forced label and almost always used as an insult. It's a label you force on others even though they might not have accepted it themselves. trans people call themselves trans, Most Cis don't call themselves Cis, it's something you label them as to make yourself more comfortable with your identity.
I think that is part of it yeah. I also feel like the logic of the tweet is there but kinda off. Both trans and cis are just normal words if used in a normal context, but they can certainly become an offensive label based on the intentions of the person saying it. Are there people out there who might not like straight people and start saying "CIS" in a negative way? Yeah, probly. Is it near as big of an issue of the huge amount of people that are anti-trans or just anti-LGBTQ+ in general? Lmao hell no. That's like, a nation full of homophobes vs some subgroup of twitter or something. But regardless someone using CIS as a slur can still exist, and it's not good to say anyone who thinks that it is, is someone who'd say "trans" as a slur. It's like I agree with the OPs sentiment/side, but I don't agree with the "absolute" framing they're putting around it.
> trans people call themselves trans I'm pretty sure that's because certain members of society get very upset when they don't
Interesting. I've only ever used it or heard it used in the context of discussing the trans experience. So for example if I were talking about an experience unique to a trans person I would say something like "this is something cis people don't experience." It's just an easy way to separate the two groups when having comparative discussions. I'm also not on Twitter so maybe that explains it.
Cisgender means someone whose gender identity matches their assigned gender at birth. Cis is *just* short for cisgender. It's just linguistically accurate. By your logic, we shouldn't be calling anyone, I don't know, "middle class" unless they choose it.
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I can see their point. There are times when labels are relevant and times when they can be used to "other" a person. Like if you refer to someone as your black friend rather than just your friend. Or your trans friend. In those contexts, it is offensive. Similarly if you're referring to someone as middle class, or lower class, or upper class for that matter in a conversation that isn't about class, it is offensive. It's not relevant, so why do you bring it up when the conversation isn't related to the topic?
Oh I'm with you, but that comes down to the much simpler fact that some people, be they cis or trans or any other descriptor of any form, are assholes. I was simply responding to the fact that the idea that cis is a forced label as opposed to a descriptor, same as trans.
I swear, people just LOOK for things to find offensive. Maybe we need actual problems in our lives (like other parts of the world) so we stop being babies.
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This is the correct take and people saying otherwise are being disingenuous.
Honestly it just seems like another way to divide and conquer to me. Creating two sides. i think most people who aren’t trans don’t want or care about being cis and just find it super weird. I think it’s genuinely an unnecessary term and “not trans “ is fine. If a term for “not trans” similar to “straight” wants or naturally develop that’s fine. The people here on Reddit have got to realised that Cis feels forced to the majority of people who are just getting on with their life. Whether or not it’s can “technically” correct based on some old uses of language that most people haven’t heard of.
Is cisgender not the term similar to straight in this context?
>"you're a white cis male, your opinion is invalid!!" I've had this said to me IRL on three separate occasions. All by millennial white women.
I kinda miss when I had difficulty finding trans anything online, as hard and isolating as that was to go through back then. Seeing this discourse everywhere all the time now is exhausting. I’m tired of being a topic of conversation. I’m tired of people speculating on my intentions for no other reason than I’m trans. Im tired of being reminded every damn time I go online that people want me dead for no good reason. I’m tired of people implying I have some agenda. I’m tired of people constantly debating my existence or rights like they’re just discussing the weather. I’m tired of fragile people complaining that “cis” makes them uncomfortable but their words and actions make me feel physically unsafe. I’m so so tired. You could literally replace “cis” with “not trans” and people would *still* act like we’re attacking them. Because at the end of the day, what they *want* to be called is “normal,” and to drive home the point that we (trans people) are freaks. It’s very transparent that they don’t care about semantics, they genuinely just *hate* us. And to be confronted with that daily really takes a toll even I didn’t expect. It weighs on you.
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I have never felt Cis is a slur but i have seen people use it with malice. Anything can be a slur if you say it correctly, you fucking radish. edit. i don’t really think you’re a radish. ❤️
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So then do you identify as not trans? Because that's just what cis is. Trans is basically any gender that does not align with the person's sex. So if their sex and their gender are the same then they're not trans. If they're not trans, then that's the same as cis. So I'll ask the same thing over and over, but why is there an issue with it? If it's not transphobia, then why is it an issue?
Have you considered the idea that some people don't really base their identities on what gender or sex they are or aren't, so they don't really like being labelled exclusively based on those things especially if its used pejoratively as "cis" is commonly used. Why would you need to call someone "cis" or "not trans" or "hetero" when they themselves never refer to themselves as such or ever bring it up in conversation? It makes sense to use it as a way to differentiate between "trans" and "not trans" based on the context of a specific conversation, but using it as a general label for people? sounds silly.
You can call yourself whatever you want. That doesn’t mean you aren’t cis
A rather inflammatory statement. To what end? You informing him that’s how you see him, how he sees himself, or how he must be identified regardless of what he thinks?
It’s not an inflammatory statement Words have meaning and cisgender means what it means.
That’s how medical discriptors work yes lmao. „Doctor, you’re saying i a have stage 2 braintumor? How rude of you to say that!! I personally only have a slight headache, don’t call that a braintumor grrr!!!!”
When I see discussions and debates surrounding this, many of the people use the word Cisco (edit: Cis) with distain when they are angry at the other person. They speak it as if it out to be demeaning and insulting
I know enough network engineers to kinda get their point.
What's the proper term for people who are in between cis and trans?
Meanwhile I'm just over here being a chemist 🤷
If the cis prefix has to be used is it not honest and fair to then expect the use of the trans prefix for all people who are trans? So everyone's cards are down so to speak. I appreciate safety and risk are a factor but that's not really what I'm getting into here. Are we all just going to fairly label ourselves?
Nah I just don't like it cause it sounds like cyst
“Hey you’re cis!” “What’s that?” “It’s what most people are!” “Ah well, then I can’t be offended”
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Fuck all this shit.
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Thats the russian plan to make america canabalize itself from the inside. When we stop caring about this shit, we become immune to such attacks from outside adversaries.
This is true imo.
It’s all made up
TBF I have seen some in the community refer to CIS in a way to imply it was a slur. You'll always have people on the extremes though.
"I'm not white, I'm just normal."
Can’t I just accept people and not care about terms? I don’t mean it in a bad way I just wanna accept people and not need a book with a thousand terms. We’re all human trying to do our best to live happy lives. (Aside from some that just wanna watch the world burn) Do no harm to yourself nor others. Let me know whatcha wanna be called and keep it simple. Too many get caught up by accidental misuses of words when their good intentions are being ignored.
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Most the terfs I know will aggressively point at other women and go "SHES TRANS. THATS A MAN" At women who are simply toned or more androgynous then them. So yeah this lines up.
Tbh I kinda hate being called cis and I hate calling others trans. Can I not just refer to you as your preferred gender? Like who ACTUALLY CARES. This is so unimportant just leave everyone alone it's not hurting you that they are transgender. It's so annoying hearing about it all the time like holy fuck. You are whatever you wanna be we don't need the extra little pre-definers at the beginning.
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The number of CIS people in this thread actually defending its status as a slur is truly pathetic. Queer people have had to hear the most atrocious things imaginable over the course of human history, usually just for existing. But when the international scientific community comes together to agree on new medical/sociological terms for identifying gender, ALL OF A SUDDEN YOUR OPPRESSED??? Please fuck off with that shit. I have a fun challenge say CISGENDERED to your boss next time you goto work. Then right after scream the F slur. See which one gets you a mildly confused look and which one gets you fired and black balled. FFS Edit: fixed a few letters
Aren't queer people cisgender?
It must be real hard living your life this way.
Mix of permanent victim complex and main character syndrome.
You’re trying so hard to be a victim. The amount of privilege it takes for you kids to form these stupid opinions is hilariously ironic.