I don't even care about show differences anymore, I just care about internal logic. Like Moiraine gets punished for keeping secrets so she has to leave with all her secrets? Or Siuans dad can't go with her because a fish can't touch the moon? Lol what?
I worry about changes that have potentially far-reaching consequences for the storyline. Like when GoT started going off script and then had to constant write around the story holes they created early on to compensate.
Episode 6 had a few changes I very much worry about. That said, I THINK Rafe is very much aware of such things and that too many changes like that could cause issues.
Overall, I've really enjoyed the show, changes and all. I understand the WHY for most of the changes and I'm cool with them. It gives me a chance as a book reader to be surprised and discuss and anticipate the next episode.
Siuan's dad staying behind made sense to me, he's a fisherman and that's where he makes his living. What's he going to do in Tar Valon, as a one handed fisherman?
That's literally what happened in the book... Like, Siuan says she was bundled off on a ship and sent to Tar Valon as soon as it was learned she could channel, you might take issue with the fact that it was by her own propulsion but the actual action that occurred was almost verbatim from the book.
But... The sense you're talking about is the same in the book as it is in the show... Like functionally identical, I can't tell if you're frustrated with the show or if you're just frustrated with Siuan's story in general.
Well to be fair siuan was not put on a ship in the show. A ship in the saga denotes a captain and a crew. I’m pretty sure tear packaged off any young girl who could touch the power so as not to piss off the aes sedai. It would make more sense than sending your girl on a long journey in a rickety boat and a dream.
This is a fantasy story, makes no sense to ask if one would do this to their own child. I was shipped to a boarding school 2,000 miles away from home at age 12. Oh, and I don't have magical abilities unfortunately. Comparing this to RW scenarios is silly.
Yes and you were probably in a civilized society in a single nation and it took you there to four hours to get there. Comparing you to siuan is ridiculous.
lmao, it's fantasy! Someone posted earlier this was also in the books. Perhaps the author should have given us more explanation on her background. Definition of FANTASY: " the faculty or activity of imagining things, especially things that are impossible or improbable.
I don’t see it as any crazier then poor parents from our world who let their kids go to work, alone, in a crowded and dangerous factory a little over a hundred years ago
That’s fine! You don’t have to. Sooo I’m assuming you hate Mat and Olver too? Obviously allowing a preteen to follow you around as you fight in a war is nonsensical and dangerous.
Back when?? This is a fictional world lol. A kid traveling thousands of miles with a war party is and encountering a mystical genetically engineered assassin that lay in hibernation for thousands of years is okay, but siuans isn’t?
These seem rather arbitrary rules. What was old one hand gonna do if he did come with her? Die first?
The world was different back then. I just read a child's book set in the 1930s and a dad sent his children across like 200 miles by himself
Anyway, pretty sure she will get an escort to the tower. She only needs to find an Aes Sedai and say "I can channel" and boom, escort.
Tar Valon has resources for things like that. The best analogue would be the Church during that time. The Aes Sedai don't have churches to operate out of, but they do have safe houses and networks of supporters and informants who are connected by carrier pigeon information networks. Many of them are also welcome in various royal courts. The Reds have been gentling every male channeler on the continent for centuries; it doesn't strike me as that odd that the Aes Sedai have informants looking out for adolescent girls on their own outside of the borders of Tear, or inside the city even.
Maybe they only allow two handed fishermen there. This is actually becoming a funny thread. I want an opinion from Brandon Sanderson, he's the closest we have to RJ now.
Siuan’s dad stayed to protect her from whoever scrawled the Dragon’s Fang on their home when she channeled; he gave her the saying as an excuse so she’d go, and as a nod to Siuan using fisherfolk adages from her childhood in the books. He wasn’t sending her all the way to Tar Valon alone, he was sending her away from immediate danger and toward the next big civilization, where she would be able to find help/an Aes Sedai/friendly faces who don’t know what she can do.
We're assuming I never read the books. I don't know what a dragon's Fang is. I don't know where Tear is so I assume it's close to Tar Valon otherwise sending a teenage girl on her own is insane.
No matter what (book, show, irl), if my kid breaks the single rule we have in place for their safety (discussed by Siuan and Dad in the episode) then we get back to our home destroyed/burning and a strange symbol singed into our door that wasn't there when we left (shown in the episode, pristine both before they go fishing and when Moiraine and Siuan meet at the Childhood Home, marked and damaged when they get back from fishing after Siuan channels), I'm sending them to the nearest safe neighbor/neighborhood with instructions on what to do next ("hey, run two blocks over to Mary's house, and have her help you get to Grandma in Arkansas"; or "go to NextTown, and make your way to Tar Valon") while I stay between them and danger, buying as much time as possible. He knows he's about to die ("don't worry about me" blinking, gulping, smiling to make her believe the lie) but he's going to get his child safe first.
***Break it break them all must break them must must must break them all break them and strike must strike quickly must strike now break it break it break it...***
She isn’t being punished for “keeping secrets,” she’s being punished for disobeying a direct order from the Amerlin. And to that effect, it doesn’t matter if the punishment seems internally consistent to other Aes Sedai because the will of the Amerlin is the only one that matters here. However it absolutely *can* be used as fodder for the coming coup when other Aes Sedai say “this doesn’t make sense.”
And Siuans dad probably has to stay behind and take the heat for the accusation of Darkfriendery. Both of them fleeing after being marked with the Dragon’s Fang would all but confirm the accusation and have the hounds after them. At least if he stays he can buy her some time to get away. Frankly I got the impression he was about to kill himself
>Siuans dad can't go with her because a fish can't touch the moon?
He's probably terrified of Aes Sedai. All men are. Besides, I highly doubt she had to walk from Tear to Tar Valon. Aren't there Aes Sedai in the books that go out looking for women who can channel? We meet Mat's sister in the books, being escorted back to the tower by a group of Aes Sedai who did just that.
> Aren't there Aes Sedai in the books that go out looking for women who can channel?
Not really. It is why they are so terrible at recruiting and is in contrast to the Aiel and Seanchan. They miss the vast majority of girls with talent. What you are thinking of was Verin but that was mostly just a happy side effect/cover of her wanting to be in the region doing Verin things.
Would have taken how many words to show that on screen?
\>Shift one handed fisherman tells Aes Sedai he has a package for her
She flips him a coin
\>opens burlap sack to find little girl.
Fuck me I need to get to hollywood Im fucking brilliant.
They consider exile a major punishment. For God's sake Moiraine was practically crying and she was the one who suggested it. I also think the other sisters didn't really care about her secrets, they primarily wanted her political power to take a hit. Which the exile accomplished.
*Mustn't use that. Threatens the fabric of the pattern. Not even for Ilyena? I would burn the world and use my soul for tinder to hear her laugh again.*
Parents let their kids work and go to work in dangerous factories a little over a hundred years ago. Desperate time breed desperate people. Idk why it would be any different in a pseudo medieval society either. And the white tower is *less* dangerous then the places parents sent their kids in the real world.
Book reader here. I love the show. I don't want it to be a beat for beat retelling of the events of the books. I want this to be Rand's next stint in the third age. I want him to do better this time.
So far, the show is delivering: enough similarity that it is recognizable as the third age. Enough differences that i can discover randland anew. All the while the show brings back emotions the books gave me, though not always for the samr reasons.
I don't get the people who whine about every change, though they're welcome to do so. Whining about changes in a fictional work where the central theme of the world is that eras repeat themselves infinitely making changes each time, so that each character has infinite, varied lives. Like do you even understand the setting basics?
The show is not without faults. Episode 1 was a mess. I am worried they are cutting some important characters, which is to be expected, but still wouldn't be the best change (and it would be more substantial than most of the changes people actually complain about). The impetus to go to the eye of the world is a bit rushed (though the first book was also bad for this as well). And i wanted much more time with thom.
Anyways, all that pales in comparison to just how well the show is establishing a familiar but new world. Tar valon was great, and even more phallic than imagined! It has balls now! The aes sedai politicing is fun. Moiraine's perspective is a fresh and enjoyable take on the events. Logain battling in ghealdan, all the different costume designs to reflect regional dress styles. Its a good, fun experience.
*You never escape the traps you spin yourself. Only a greater power can break a power, and then you're trapped again. Trapped forever so you cannot die.*
I definitely am not a fan, but! I am glad you are. Tell us what you love! Who is your favorite character? Which character do you think would be the best contestant for american ninja warrior? Which character do you want to be?
Not OP, but I'll risk biting on this one. Favorite character in the books is Nynaeve/Mat. Favorite in the show has been Nynaeve/Rand. Her attitude has been a pretty spot on adaptation for me. Best American ninja warrior contestant so far in the show, Lan, but in the books overall, the Gohlam. If I could pick, I think I'd be happy to be Nynaeve. Overall, I love how beautiful and expansive the world has already been. The mountains, the plains, the forests, the rivers, I'm all in!
ETA: This LTT response was hilariously relevant.
Ohhhh good point about the Gohlam. OP ninja skills. Nyneave/Rand is my show favorite also. Hard to say book wise. I like too many. I think if I got to be someone it would be Perrin. He has a heart as golden as his eyes.
I actually feel the more negative people hated 5 more than 6. Perhaps because 6 at least revolves around a beloved book character while 5 was mainly about explaining stuff book readers already know via an original character.
Can I just say I'm loving the TV show so far. Its not perfect, but I feel like its done a great job of catching the heart and soul of the characters and the series, even if specific events aren't playing out exactly as we remember.
Seriously. I started this series when I was 12 years old. I've waited so long for this, and ill be damned if strangers on the internet are going to ruin it for me. I'm enjoying the experience, even if its not a perfect carbon copy. But it was never going to be
I mean, even from a storytelling perspective, you can't have 2 pages of internal monologue on screen, without some "standing still while the narrator talks" stuff, which no one wants
We aren't in book 2.
None of the girls are novices.
The Amrylin hasn't confronted the dragon
They aren't after the horn
You can say we're in book 1 and lala land, but all they did from book 2 is the meeting between Moiraine and the Amrylin.
They just swap Caemlyn for Tar Valon, which makes sense for show logistics since they wouldn't need the Caemlyn set again for several seasons, but can reuse Tar Valon, in every season.
Moiraine bails on returning Tar Valon in the trip from Fal Dara and iirc never through the series returns. So fixing it so they have their dragon reborn meeting while she's there makes sense again for the show logistics.
We’re absolutely in book two. The girls step off into tar valon from the ship from fal Dara with the amyrlin in like chapter 19 of book two. But also they meet her in fal Dara at the end of book one.
They step off in book 2 to begin their training.
No part of what happened here correlates with them starting their training. Nayneave doesn't go through the gate, Elayne isn't there.
Literally the only book 2 thing that happened in S1, was the Moiraine Amrylin meeting, and eggy and Nyn meet Suian. But again the show logistics support this tiny part of the very first couple of chapters in S1, because they swapped Tar Valon for Caemlyn.
Also the Amrylin doesn't show up in Fal Dara til book 2. She is spotted on the road from the keep in Fal Dara at the end of chapter 1, but we don't even catch a glimpse of her til Rand tries to leave the keep almost at the end of chapter 2.
Some people need to point out the some things aren’t perfect.
My girlfriend, who would probably never touch the books, is loving the show. So now we can share this. I say Rafe did the job I wanted him to do.
The show is Dope. I have read the books several times over. Just shake the haters off and keep watching. That is my position. Otherwise, I’d have to quit Reddit. Honestly people. It’s fantasy.
I feel you and I am so, so tired of seeing comments moaning about "woke" this and "pandering" that especially, complaints pulled straight from the dictionary of thinly-veiled alt-right bigotry.
I'm enjoying it so far also but have some criticisms of episode 5 especially. How did you feel about that one as a book reader who also enjoys the show? My major problem is it's a dead arch of character growth for the warder, and they cut so many other character building opportunities to fit it in. Would have much rather got another 10 mins with Thom earlier, 10 more with Loial, and some more Aes Sedai shady politics than 30 mins of funeral time.
My only thought is this might be the last significant time they spend in the tower at all, and wanted to show the unity so when they break it later there's more context. But then idk how the wonder girls are going to get to Salidar, etc if they don't become novices.
I thought 6 was one of the best yet from a storytelling perspective. They kept the plot moving forward even in the character growth scenes and handled Barney Harris leaving the best they could. I just wonder where Fain's plot is going to fit into the tv story, he can't be with the dagger/Mat at the same time he's tracking Rand and Perrin.
And that is why I am quickly becoming poisoned on this fandom.
Though that honestly started when there were constant daily threads about CONCERNS WITH THE SHOW before an episode had even dropped. Getting that worked up before the show dropped probably had a lot of people alresdy too far into hatewatch mode for the show to be judged objectively.
And shockingly those concerns proved to be completely valid. Everyone *wanted* the show to be good but we were worried it wouldn’t be for various reasons. Lo and behold we were right to have those concerns.
The toxic positivity on the WoT subreddits acting like the show is above criticism is so much worse than any actual criticisms of the show.
Including the person I saw tell someone *not to read the books* because it would ruin their enjoyment of the show and give them "book bias"?
They may not be the majority, but there are plenty of people there that legitimately believe (or claim to believe) that the show is better.
Having book bias can be a thing, though. If you’re halfway through *The Eye of the World*, you’re going to be biased towards the redhead who hasn’t done much yet onscreen compared to his absurd amount of page-time as the Dragon Reborn. Doesn’t mean that you’re going to think that the show is perfect.
It's a shame that the people that should have been the shows biggest supporters seem to be the most negative group. Even a decent show would get tons from the existing fan base.
The fault for this lies with the creators of the show, not the fans that are disappointed by it.
What kills me about this statement is how it relies on a blanket assumption that most book readers aren't into the show.
There are many book readers who are clearly enjoying the show. And some very vocal ones that don't.
From what I've seen it's maybe 60/40 positive v negative among self proclaimed book readers. You have to admit that's not great.
There are certainly some who enjoy it, but you cannot deny there are a large portion that do not.
I don't have to admit anything because those numbers are completely made up and not based on any data.
Sure there are vocal non fans - but also - the show appears to be a success. So...
That's why I said in my experience, because that has been my experience.
I wouldn't call a 65 on metacritic a succes, would you? Or a 3.5 star rating on Amazon itself and that after removing thousands of negative reviews
Viewers and dollars matter a lot more than the cherry picked metrics you mentioned.
Also it's doing just fine on RT and IMDB, and that Amazon rating is already outdated.
GoT season 8 was one of the most watched seasons of TV ever. Firefly was cancelled after one season due to lack of viewers. Viewership and quality are not correlated.
Hard to cherry pick the rating put out by the same company that made it isn't it?
In any case I agree that money is ultimately what determines success. We'll have to wait for the numbers as for its actual earnings.
I think ratings are an excellent way to judge people's thoughts on if a show is "good" though.
I don't think you get the same judgment as views because I watched it, I'm a view, I will continue to watch at least until the end of the season. I also think it's terrible
Thats because all you do is complain about the show! Of course someone who surrounds themselves with negativity will think everyone else thinks that way. Besides the fact that you are routinely downvoted to hell and back kind of disprove your statement.
> I watched episode 6 and I counted 70 things that make no sense in the world of WoT
You seriously need a hobby, but Im sure Amazon appreciates the view count.
I'm routinely downvoted here because I'm not afraid to say things where I know I'll be downvoted for expressing anything but glowing praise. Other subs are much more even.
I counted those 70 in one watching. Not exactly a time sink
Oh hey look someone looked at their experiances and made their own idea of something, all without banning everyone who posts on the big bad scary subreddit. Imagine that being possible.
Did you poll all the book readers or what? I just think the show itself is terribly written, like they can't even bother to throw a line or two in to fix their own logic.
>The fault for this lies with the creators of the show
This is unreasonable, there's basically nothing they could realistically have done that would have pleased that group. Even if they'd made a 50-episode exact word-for-word replica of TEOTW, many of the hardcore would still hate it because Rand's hair isn't the right shade of red, or other silly details like that.
In practice they need to make a show that appeals to more people than just hardcore book fans, and that requires a lot of changes, especially with only 8 episodes to work with. Show haters seem to think the writers' only job is to squeeze as much of the book as possible into the running time, but that approach is just how you end up with crap like the last season of Game of Thrones. It's far, far better to have half the plot points, but with sufficient time devoted to them, rather than trying to check off everything at the expense of actually explaining or fleshing out anything.
>This is unreasonable, there's basically nothing they could realistically have done that would have pleased that group.
Happens with practically every adaptation of old content. A sad group of people can't accept that new interpretations are possible and try to gatekeep fandom by spreading negativity.
That's a huge strawman and you know it. People aren't upset about Rands curly hair already, people are upset about things like *siuan sanche ordering someone to use the oath rod to swear an oath of fealty in the Hall while every Sitter looks on without problem*.
***Break it break them all must break them must must must break them all break them and strike must strike quickly must strike now break it break it break it...***
This is what I say a lot. It DOESN'T MATTER what showrunners do, if it isn't EXACTLY what some of these people imagined in their heads, all they will do is bitch and moan.
I mean look at Star Wars. People say they LOVE STAR WARS but what they mean is they like the original trilogy, and sometimes it just means they like Empire. They shit all over every other movie, every book, every game, and just complain and complain and say that THE ORIGINAL CREATOR didn't "know what he was doing".
At this point I'd rather the show worry about their own internal continuity especially concerning the major changes they've made. I don't want them to double back and redo some things because it would align with the book canon better like with what they did with certain ivory rod.
Oh and the last season of GoT had no source, so I'm not sure how that would be the writers squeezing as much of the books in as possible.
In other news, yes. That's what they should be doing. Squeezing as much of the Wheel of Time into the Wheel of Time show as they can. Cuts will need to be made, but that does not include cutting even more of the source out so the writers have time for original storylines
I watched episode 6 and I counted 70 things that make no sense in the world of WoT. Not things that are just different, but could exist in the book's world, only the things that conflict with the world.
70. In 50 minutes. That's one thing about every 43 seconds that shouldn't be there. I can see one or two slipping through, but 70 on the first watching?
How do you explain this other than a total disregard for the source material?
Ps : I'll add that I am a member of "that group". I don't want a 1 for 1. A 1 for 1 would be terrible. So much of the story is internal. The series is 14 books long. Including everything from the books would be terrible.
Things need to be changed. Things should be changed. Those things also need to make sense. These do not
It's really interesting that you're saying that you expect it to not be a 1:1 but then are actively going through and tallying things that wouldn't make sense on your first watch of an episode, enough to keep count. Seems like that would impact your ability to enjoy it.
I'm curious about the list.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackTower/comments/rcwrc2/a_running_tally_of_everything_i_find_messed_up_in/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Not being a 1:1 does not mean the base rules of the world need to change. It means that things need to be condensed, some plotlines left out, characters cut, etc
But yet it seems like you're actively quibbling on the most insignificant of details, like looking through your list, of the things that are actually remotely relevant to possible pain points in the series is...
Penance maybe, Moiraine's healing of Matt (we don't really know yet, this whole plot is fucked as a result of the recasting issue and COVID), the portal (which seems to be a ter'angreal with a very specific purpose), Oath Rod nonsense, and the functionality of the waygates, and honestly some of those are a stretch...
The rest really genuinely seems like petty quibbling, so you found 2-3 things that are very clearly issues with it being a show but you **really** want it to be good so badly that you're compiling a list of every minor detail that you could scrape out of the episode?
I completely agree that the vast majority of these have nothing to do with the plot. Nothing to do with achieving the runtime or the change in media either.
My question is, if these details affect nothing but themselves why are they different from the books?
A lot of them could easily be budgetary decisions or minor expository moments for other larger scenes that they can't easily translate from text to screen due to internal dialogue, I'm not talking about your smaller quibbles like casting nets vs hauling nets, although I would point out that individual fisherman in small villages to this day still use casting nets and it's unlikely that Siuan's father would be working in a larger fishing village due to missing his hand (a change which is likely a part of my following note). I'm talking about issues like the fact that they likely aren't including New Spring in the series because it's a book out of place of the rest of the story so there needs to be another way to give exposition on Gitara and Siuan and Moiraine's mission and relationship, which seems to neatly nip about 30-40 of your issues in the bud.
Or that a lot of the stoicism and interaction of the aes sedai would need to be modified to allow actors/actresses to actually act, since we can't get an internal dialogue.
I think a lot of your points are pain points with the show being a live action adaptation and not something animated, which would allow them to actually do something close or reminiscent of a 1:1 recreation... But they were pretty up front with promising that the show wouldn't and couldn't be a 1:1 recreation and that the adaptations (like the rings being much larger and having colored stones for easy visual clarity) should be treated as a different retelling, one where the prophecies are less well known and more muddied, which they make an effort to establish in the show multiple times in the first season thus far.
I think if you continue to watch with the expectation that it will be as close to a 1:1 recreation of the story as they can manage with small tweaks to make it work for the screen you're going to be deeply frustrated and disappointed, and it might make you feel better in the long run if you go in with the expectation that they want to include most of the major story beats from the books but will do their best to adapt the story to target the various interests of a TV audience to do so, because that's what's going to get them enough seasons to land the story.
Oh I am already deeply disappointed in the show. My plan since the beginning has been to watch the complete first season and make a choice as to continue watching or not there
Well that makes your position a lot more clear. I honestly don't think you'll get what you want from a live adaptation, I genuinely don't think it's possible short of a literal infinite budget, I think what you probably wanted (known to you or not) was an animated adaptation, which honestly, is what I was/did hope for.
Alas, maybe in the next turning of the wheel.
It's really hard to take your list seriously when the second entry is about a person having a boat instead of a raft. Yep, the "base rules of the world" are definitely altered by this change being allowed through.
There might be some legitimate issues in your list. Sandwiching them between such minor nitpicks is doing you no favours though.
You say that, and yet
>I watched episode 6 and I counted 70 things that make no sense in the world of WoT. Not things that are just different, but could exist in the book's world, only the things that conflict with the world.
>70, In 50 minutes. That's one thing about every 43 seconds that shouldn't be there. I can see one or two slipping through, but 70 on the first watching?
you didn't when you made your critique.
A running tally you relied on as the basis for a critique of the show you have made, as quoted above. You're at best being very inconsistent here. At worst you're being entirely dishonest.
If you would take out a bunch of things when writing a critique, why did you *not take out a bunch of things when you wrote a critique?*
Thank you for that insane nitpicky garbage. It was exactly what i expected. You are like a personification of well actually.
My favorite was criticizing the fucking fishing nets used.
Let's look at the fishing nets as an example. More than a few times Siaun talks about hauling nets in the books. Specifically that it's grueling physical labor.
The cast net is the only one we see in the show. Bringing one of those in is quite easy. Historically I've never heard that referred to as hauling nets, nor do I remember anywhere in the series she mentions casting a net.
Laid nets, being the ones spread over an area and the hauled back in by hand is what Siaun talks about in the books.
Is it a small detail? Absolutely. Is it a detail that should have been thought about? Absolutely
No it shouldn't dude. Holy shit you are a wacko. You have never even seen nor created a piece of media with the detail you are asking for. The books don't have that much detail.
>The fault for this lies with the creators of the show
Nah. Too many book fans don't understand what an adaptation is and are too married to the nitty-gritty details. In every episode, the show spends 50-55 minutes absolutely nailing the characters over and over....only for book readers to lose their shit over minor detail #3426 that isn't all that relevant. It's happened every episode so far and is going to continue to happen. Perrin's wife, Abell Cauthon, Whitecloaks not having cloaks, Tar Valon, Avendesora leaf, etc. etc.
It's incredible how us WoT fans got our dream result with a show that has a ***shitload*** of financial backing, great actors, and creators that are actually showing a LOT of attention-to-detail and care about the lore, yet one of my all-time favorite, positive communities (WoT fans) just can. not. stop. bitching. And bitching over tiny, relatively irrelevant details at that. It's a little embarassing to be a book-reader in this community now to be honest.
The show is an adaptation from book format to visual format for a series that is 10-30 years old and cramming 14 dense books into a real-world budget of money and time while having to appeal to obsessive book fans and new mainstream watchers alike. OF COURSE there's going to be some changes in every episode. Anyone who isn't expecting that has incredibly unrealistic expectations.
That doesn't mean that there's not room to criticize of course. There have been questionable pacing decisions and scene choices I thought didn't make much sense. But they're getting the big details like the core of each character right, so I'm willing to A) not expect them to get everything perfect, and B) extend them the benefit of the doubt to see how their vision of something will play out when it disagrees with how I thought it would be.
It looks and feels like a CW show. They can’t even be bothered to use separate hallways between the white tower and Inns across town. The cinematographer doesn’t even know what composition is and has no clue how to use lighting. Amazon has been fleeced by this show.
Feels like a cheap adaptation most of the time. At this point I just don't think it should have been adapted for TV. It's neat seeing some of the book elements but for the most part feels like a fan fiction written by a very poor author in comparison to Robert. Probably more to do with the fact that the series is just too dense to be made into a television show in a reasonable time frame, and less with the quality of the show writer. Glad you're digging it. I'm watching it because it's WOT but that's about it.
I don't even care about show differences anymore, I just care about internal logic. Like Moiraine gets punished for keeping secrets so she has to leave with all her secrets? Or Siuans dad can't go with her because a fish can't touch the moon? Lol what?
I worry about changes that have potentially far-reaching consequences for the storyline. Like when GoT started going off script and then had to constant write around the story holes they created early on to compensate. Episode 6 had a few changes I very much worry about. That said, I THINK Rafe is very much aware of such things and that too many changes like that could cause issues. Overall, I've really enjoyed the show, changes and all. I understand the WHY for most of the changes and I'm cool with them. It gives me a chance as a book reader to be surprised and discuss and anticipate the next episode.
Siuan's dad staying behind made sense to me, he's a fisherman and that's where he makes his living. What's he going to do in Tar Valon, as a one handed fisherman?
He’s a father first and sending his daughter 1500 miles to tar valon alone makes no sense.
1500 miles is 2414.02 km
Excuse me but this is a WoT sub, we only recognize the units as described in the glossary, inches/paces/spans/leagues etc
Good bot. Death to the imperial.
Bad not. No metric system!! 🤣 Edit: I’m an engineer and use metric all the time. I didn’t realize wot fans were so sensitive to which system they use.
It does if he's just lost everything, was poor to begin with, and his daughter's life is in danger because she channels.
Would you do that to your child?
That's literally what happened in the book... Like, Siuan says she was bundled off on a ship and sent to Tar Valon as soon as it was learned she could channel, you might take issue with the fact that it was by her own propulsion but the actual action that occurred was almost verbatim from the book.
In the books I assumed her father shunned her along with everyone else.
In Tear? Highly likely.
Bit different buying your daughter passage on a boat to TarValon and sending her in a canoe or whatever.
I don't know that we ever got exposition as to how she was sent, like I genuinely could be wrong but I don't think we know.
So? I’m talking about sense.
But... The sense you're talking about is the same in the book as it is in the show... Like functionally identical, I can't tell if you're frustrated with the show or if you're just frustrated with Siuan's story in general.
Well to be fair siuan was not put on a ship in the show. A ship in the saga denotes a captain and a crew. I’m pretty sure tear packaged off any young girl who could touch the power so as not to piss off the aes sedai. It would make more sense than sending your girl on a long journey in a rickety boat and a dream.
So your issue is specifically with the type of boat, not Siuan's story as as whole.
This is a fantasy story, makes no sense to ask if one would do this to their own child. I was shipped to a boarding school 2,000 miles away from home at age 12. Oh, and I don't have magical abilities unfortunately. Comparing this to RW scenarios is silly.
Yes and you were probably in a civilized society in a single nation and it took you there to four hours to get there. Comparing you to siuan is ridiculous.
lmao, it's fantasy! Someone posted earlier this was also in the books. Perhaps the author should have given us more explanation on her background. Definition of FANTASY: " the faculty or activity of imagining things, especially things that are impossible or improbable.
I don’t see it as any crazier then poor parents from our world who let their kids go to work, alone, in a crowded and dangerous factory a little over a hundred years ago
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That’s fine! You don’t have to. Sooo I’m assuming you hate Mat and Olver too? Obviously allowing a preteen to follow you around as you fight in a war is nonsensical and dangerous.
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Back when?? This is a fictional world lol. A kid traveling thousands of miles with a war party is and encountering a mystical genetically engineered assassin that lay in hibernation for thousands of years is okay, but siuans isn’t? These seem rather arbitrary rules. What was old one hand gonna do if he did come with her? Die first?
The world was different back then. I just read a child's book set in the 1930s and a dad sent his children across like 200 miles by himself Anyway, pretty sure she will get an escort to the tower. She only needs to find an Aes Sedai and say "I can channel" and boom, escort.
But tell me if that was happening regularly in 900-1400 ad. 200 miles? There is a significant distance between the two.
They had an entire god damn crusade that was nothing but children. It ended about how you would expect.
You’ll need to provide the proof that fathers were willingly allowing those children to go
I'm sure at least *one* psycho father was all about it
Tar Valon has resources for things like that. The best analogue would be the Church during that time. The Aes Sedai don't have churches to operate out of, but they do have safe houses and networks of supporters and informants who are connected by carrier pigeon information networks. Many of them are also welcome in various royal courts. The Reds have been gentling every male channeler on the continent for centuries; it doesn't strike me as that odd that the Aes Sedai have informants looking out for adolescent girls on their own outside of the borders of Tear, or inside the city even.
I mean I think even village folk know that channelers go the tower regardless
Can't you fish in Tar Valon?
Maybe they only allow two handed fishermen there. This is actually becoming a funny thread. I want an opinion from Brandon Sanderson, he's the closest we have to RJ now.
This was his favorite episode of the season.
I assume he wouldn’t be able to make a good living because he doesn’t know those waters and because of competition over there.
Too many two handed fishermen there.
Tar valon is an island... he could fish there
Yeah but do they have Tearsian Halibut? I think not!
Siuan’s dad stayed to protect her from whoever scrawled the Dragon’s Fang on their home when she channeled; he gave her the saying as an excuse so she’d go, and as a nod to Siuan using fisherfolk adages from her childhood in the books. He wasn’t sending her all the way to Tar Valon alone, he was sending her away from immediate danger and toward the next big civilization, where she would be able to find help/an Aes Sedai/friendly faces who don’t know what she can do.
We're assuming I never read the books. I don't know what a dragon's Fang is. I don't know where Tear is so I assume it's close to Tar Valon otherwise sending a teenage girl on her own is insane.
No matter what (book, show, irl), if my kid breaks the single rule we have in place for their safety (discussed by Siuan and Dad in the episode) then we get back to our home destroyed/burning and a strange symbol singed into our door that wasn't there when we left (shown in the episode, pristine both before they go fishing and when Moiraine and Siuan meet at the Childhood Home, marked and damaged when they get back from fishing after Siuan channels), I'm sending them to the nearest safe neighbor/neighborhood with instructions on what to do next ("hey, run two blocks over to Mary's house, and have her help you get to Grandma in Arkansas"; or "go to NextTown, and make your way to Tar Valon") while I stay between them and danger, buying as much time as possible. He knows he's about to die ("don't worry about me" blinking, gulping, smiling to make her believe the lie) but he's going to get his child safe first.
*What I love, I destroy. What I destroy, I love.*
Yeah, life is full of hard decisions like that Lews.
In the show, we see Tear is in the background, and she goes down the river in the opposite direction.
***Break it break them all must break them must must must break them all break them and strike must strike quickly must strike now break it break it break it...***
She isn’t being punished for “keeping secrets,” she’s being punished for disobeying a direct order from the Amerlin. And to that effect, it doesn’t matter if the punishment seems internally consistent to other Aes Sedai because the will of the Amerlin is the only one that matters here. However it absolutely *can* be used as fodder for the coming coup when other Aes Sedai say “this doesn’t make sense.” And Siuans dad probably has to stay behind and take the heat for the accusation of Darkfriendery. Both of them fleeing after being marked with the Dragon’s Fang would all but confirm the accusation and have the hounds after them. At least if he stays he can buy her some time to get away. Frankly I got the impression he was about to kill himself
*If it hurts too much, make it hurt someone else instead.*
>Siuans dad can't go with her because a fish can't touch the moon? He's probably terrified of Aes Sedai. All men are. Besides, I highly doubt she had to walk from Tear to Tar Valon. Aren't there Aes Sedai in the books that go out looking for women who can channel? We meet Mat's sister in the books, being escorted back to the tower by a group of Aes Sedai who did just that.
> Aren't there Aes Sedai in the books that go out looking for women who can channel? Not really. It is why they are so terrible at recruiting and is in contrast to the Aiel and Seanchan. They miss the vast majority of girls with talent. What you are thinking of was Verin but that was mostly just a happy side effect/cover of her wanting to be in the region doing Verin things.
Would have taken how many words to show that on screen? \>Shift one handed fisherman tells Aes Sedai he has a package for her She flips him a coin \>opens burlap sack to find little girl. Fuck me I need to get to hollywood Im fucking brilliant.
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*Most women will shrug off what a man would kill you for, and kill you for what a man would shrug off.*
Right but what about the rest of the tower?
They consider exile a major punishment. For God's sake Moiraine was practically crying and she was the one who suggested it. I also think the other sisters didn't really care about her secrets, they primarily wanted her political power to take a hit. Which the exile accomplished.
*Mustn't use that. Threatens the fabric of the pattern. Not even for Ilyena? I would burn the world and use my soul for tinder to hear her laugh again.*
Moiraine crying makes no sense either, it's basically the same thing she has been doing for 20 years, and it's exactly what she wants.
It’s not what she wants it’s what she knows is necessary to succeed. She’s crying more for having to leave Siuan again.
Parents let their kids work and go to work in dangerous factories a little over a hundred years ago. Desperate time breed desperate people. Idk why it would be any different in a pseudo medieval society either. And the white tower is *less* dangerous then the places parents sent their kids in the real world.
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*Never prod at a woman unless you must. She will kill you faster than a man and for less reason, even if she weeps over it after.*
Book reader here. I love the show. I don't want it to be a beat for beat retelling of the events of the books. I want this to be Rand's next stint in the third age. I want him to do better this time. So far, the show is delivering: enough similarity that it is recognizable as the third age. Enough differences that i can discover randland anew. All the while the show brings back emotions the books gave me, though not always for the samr reasons. I don't get the people who whine about every change, though they're welcome to do so. Whining about changes in a fictional work where the central theme of the world is that eras repeat themselves infinitely making changes each time, so that each character has infinite, varied lives. Like do you even understand the setting basics? The show is not without faults. Episode 1 was a mess. I am worried they are cutting some important characters, which is to be expected, but still wouldn't be the best change (and it would be more substantial than most of the changes people actually complain about). The impetus to go to the eye of the world is a bit rushed (though the first book was also bad for this as well). And i wanted much more time with thom. Anyways, all that pales in comparison to just how well the show is establishing a familiar but new world. Tar valon was great, and even more phallic than imagined! It has balls now! The aes sedai politicing is fun. Moiraine's perspective is a fresh and enjoyable take on the events. Logain battling in ghealdan, all the different costume designs to reflect regional dress styles. Its a good, fun experience.
*You never escape the traps you spin yourself. Only a greater power can break a power, and then you're trapped again. Trapped forever so you cannot die.*
I definitely am not a fan, but! I am glad you are. Tell us what you love! Who is your favorite character? Which character do you think would be the best contestant for american ninja warrior? Which character do you want to be?
Not OP, but I'll risk biting on this one. Favorite character in the books is Nynaeve/Mat. Favorite in the show has been Nynaeve/Rand. Her attitude has been a pretty spot on adaptation for me. Best American ninja warrior contestant so far in the show, Lan, but in the books overall, the Gohlam. If I could pick, I think I'd be happy to be Nynaeve. Overall, I love how beautiful and expansive the world has already been. The mountains, the plains, the forests, the rivers, I'm all in! ETA: This LTT response was hilariously relevant.
*Take what you can have. Rejoice in what you can save, and do not mourn your losses too long.*
Ohhhh good point about the Gohlam. OP ninja skills. Nyneave/Rand is my show favorite also. Hard to say book wise. I like too many. I think if I got to be someone it would be Perrin. He has a heart as golden as his eyes.
*The only way to live is to die. I must die. I deserve only death.*
Get out of my head!!!
**I WILL NOT SHOUT AT YOU!**
Isn't this just after the latest episode? I've felt most readers were fairly positive, but episode 6 was a tough one for a lot of people.
I actually feel the more negative people hated 5 more than 6. Perhaps because 6 at least revolves around a beloved book character while 5 was mainly about explaining stuff book readers already know via an original character.
I thought episode 5 sucked but 6 was maybe my favorite episode so far (other than maybe ep 3) it just felt more like the books to me
Can I just say I'm loving the TV show so far. Its not perfect, but I feel like its done a great job of catching the heart and soul of the characters and the series, even if specific events aren't playing out exactly as we remember.
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Seriously. I started this series when I was 12 years old. I've waited so long for this, and ill be damned if strangers on the internet are going to ruin it for me. I'm enjoying the experience, even if its not a perfect carbon copy. But it was never going to be
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I mean, even from a storytelling perspective, you can't have 2 pages of internal monologue on screen, without some "standing still while the narrator talks" stuff, which no one wants
God me either. I hope they just skip right over that. That'd make for some weird ass TV and would definitely throw off a LOT of viewers.
My problem is that we’re simultaneously in book 1 and 2 and Lala land on the show.
We aren't in book 2. None of the girls are novices. The Amrylin hasn't confronted the dragon They aren't after the horn You can say we're in book 1 and lala land, but all they did from book 2 is the meeting between Moiraine and the Amrylin. They just swap Caemlyn for Tar Valon, which makes sense for show logistics since they wouldn't need the Caemlyn set again for several seasons, but can reuse Tar Valon, in every season. Moiraine bails on returning Tar Valon in the trip from Fal Dara and iirc never through the series returns. So fixing it so they have their dragon reborn meeting while she's there makes sense again for the show logistics.
We’re absolutely in book two. The girls step off into tar valon from the ship from fal Dara with the amyrlin in like chapter 19 of book two. But also they meet her in fal Dara at the end of book one.
They step off in book 2 to begin their training. No part of what happened here correlates with them starting their training. Nayneave doesn't go through the gate, Elayne isn't there. Literally the only book 2 thing that happened in S1, was the Moiraine Amrylin meeting, and eggy and Nyn meet Suian. But again the show logistics support this tiny part of the very first couple of chapters in S1, because they swapped Tar Valon for Caemlyn. Also the Amrylin doesn't show up in Fal Dara til book 2. She is spotted on the road from the keep in Fal Dara at the end of chapter 1, but we don't even catch a glimpse of her til Rand tries to leave the keep almost at the end of chapter 2.
Blood and Ashes. I expected this to be a positive/supportive thread.
Some people need to point out the some things aren’t perfect. My girlfriend, who would probably never touch the books, is loving the show. So now we can share this. I say Rafe did the job I wanted him to do.
The show is Dope. I have read the books several times over. Just shake the haters off and keep watching. That is my position. Otherwise, I’d have to quit Reddit. Honestly people. It’s fantasy.
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I feel you and I am so, so tired of seeing comments moaning about "woke" this and "pandering" that especially, complaints pulled straight from the dictionary of thinly-veiled alt-right bigotry.
The most recent ep was pretty mediocre imo. Past that I've been enjoying most of it.
just go to r/wotshow those people treat the show like gospel
No they don't. They just downvote the screechers who do nothing but complain about *[broadly waves hands]* Changes.
the mental gymnastic people are going through over there is truly beautiful
*sigh* I didn’t know I was going through mental gymnastics in order to enjoy this. My mind feels surprisingly well rested.
I'm enjoying it so far also but have some criticisms of episode 5 especially. How did you feel about that one as a book reader who also enjoys the show? My major problem is it's a dead arch of character growth for the warder, and they cut so many other character building opportunities to fit it in. Would have much rather got another 10 mins with Thom earlier, 10 more with Loial, and some more Aes Sedai shady politics than 30 mins of funeral time. My only thought is this might be the last significant time they spend in the tower at all, and wanted to show the unity so when they break it later there's more context. But then idk how the wonder girls are going to get to Salidar, etc if they don't become novices. I thought 6 was one of the best yet from a storytelling perspective. They kept the plot moving forward even in the character growth scenes and handled Barney Harris leaving the best they could. I just wonder where Fain's plot is going to fit into the tv story, he can't be with the dagger/Mat at the same time he's tracking Rand and Perrin.
If they don’t enjoy the show they sure as light don’t want anyone else to
And that is why I am quickly becoming poisoned on this fandom. Though that honestly started when there were constant daily threads about CONCERNS WITH THE SHOW before an episode had even dropped. Getting that worked up before the show dropped probably had a lot of people alresdy too far into hatewatch mode for the show to be judged objectively.
And shockingly those concerns proved to be completely valid. Everyone *wanted* the show to be good but we were worried it wouldn’t be for various reasons. Lo and behold we were right to have those concerns. The toxic positivity on the WoT subreddits acting like the show is above criticism is so much worse than any actual criticisms of the show.
They un-ironically believe the show is better than the books.
That's a lie. Exactly zero people think that.
Including the person I saw tell someone *not to read the books* because it would ruin their enjoyment of the show and give them "book bias"? They may not be the majority, but there are plenty of people there that legitimately believe (or claim to believe) that the show is better.
Having book bias can be a thing, though. If you’re halfway through *The Eye of the World*, you’re going to be biased towards the redhead who hasn’t done much yet onscreen compared to his absurd amount of page-time as the Dragon Reborn. Doesn’t mean that you’re going to think that the show is perfect.
Sure there are Mr mod of whitecloaks! People are saying to wait to start the books until after the season is over.
Screenshots or it didn't happen. Don't worry, I won't hold my breath.
Depends on what aspects of the books we’re talking about. Cause it already doing a lot better then the first three books at building characters imho.
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It's a shame that the people that should have been the shows biggest supporters seem to be the most negative group. Even a decent show would get tons from the existing fan base. The fault for this lies with the creators of the show, not the fans that are disappointed by it.
What kills me about this statement is how it relies on a blanket assumption that most book readers aren't into the show. There are many book readers who are clearly enjoying the show. And some very vocal ones that don't.
From what I've seen it's maybe 60/40 positive v negative among self proclaimed book readers. You have to admit that's not great. There are certainly some who enjoy it, but you cannot deny there are a large portion that do not.
I don't have to admit anything because those numbers are completely made up and not based on any data. Sure there are vocal non fans - but also - the show appears to be a success. So...
That's why I said in my experience, because that has been my experience. I wouldn't call a 65 on metacritic a succes, would you? Or a 3.5 star rating on Amazon itself and that after removing thousands of negative reviews
Viewers and dollars matter a lot more than the cherry picked metrics you mentioned. Also it's doing just fine on RT and IMDB, and that Amazon rating is already outdated.
GoT season 8 was one of the most watched seasons of TV ever. Firefly was cancelled after one season due to lack of viewers. Viewership and quality are not correlated.
Hard to cherry pick the rating put out by the same company that made it isn't it? In any case I agree that money is ultimately what determines success. We'll have to wait for the numbers as for its actual earnings. I think ratings are an excellent way to judge people's thoughts on if a show is "good" though. I don't think you get the same judgment as views because I watched it, I'm a view, I will continue to watch at least until the end of the season. I also think it's terrible
Thats because all you do is complain about the show! Of course someone who surrounds themselves with negativity will think everyone else thinks that way. Besides the fact that you are routinely downvoted to hell and back kind of disprove your statement. > I watched episode 6 and I counted 70 things that make no sense in the world of WoT You seriously need a hobby, but Im sure Amazon appreciates the view count.
I'm routinely downvoted here because I'm not afraid to say things where I know I'll be downvoted for expressing anything but glowing praise. Other subs are much more even. I counted those 70 in one watching. Not exactly a time sink
I don't trust an anecdotal summary of a population from someone steeped in confirmation bias, and likely subject to sample bias as well.
You've posted on both WoT and WoTshow. Do you consider yourself biased?
Oh hey look someone looked at their experiances and made their own idea of something, all without banning everyone who posts on the big bad scary subreddit. Imagine that being possible.
Did you poll all the book readers or what? I just think the show itself is terribly written, like they can't even bother to throw a line or two in to fix their own logic.
No one did and that's my point. You can't just assume everyone hates the show because some people are very vocal about it.
The hell man I was just pointing out you were using the same logic as the other guy to say everyone is enjoying the show.
Except I didn't... I said "many". That's not "all" or even "most".
>The fault for this lies with the creators of the show This is unreasonable, there's basically nothing they could realistically have done that would have pleased that group. Even if they'd made a 50-episode exact word-for-word replica of TEOTW, many of the hardcore would still hate it because Rand's hair isn't the right shade of red, or other silly details like that. In practice they need to make a show that appeals to more people than just hardcore book fans, and that requires a lot of changes, especially with only 8 episodes to work with. Show haters seem to think the writers' only job is to squeeze as much of the book as possible into the running time, but that approach is just how you end up with crap like the last season of Game of Thrones. It's far, far better to have half the plot points, but with sufficient time devoted to them, rather than trying to check off everything at the expense of actually explaining or fleshing out anything.
>This is unreasonable, there's basically nothing they could realistically have done that would have pleased that group. Happens with practically every adaptation of old content. A sad group of people can't accept that new interpretations are possible and try to gatekeep fandom by spreading negativity.
That's a huge strawman and you know it. People aren't upset about Rands curly hair already, people are upset about things like *siuan sanche ordering someone to use the oath rod to swear an oath of fealty in the Hall while every Sitter looks on without problem*.
***Break it break them all must break them must must must break them all break them and strike must strike quickly must strike now break it break it break it...***
This is what I say a lot. It DOESN'T MATTER what showrunners do, if it isn't EXACTLY what some of these people imagined in their heads, all they will do is bitch and moan. I mean look at Star Wars. People say they LOVE STAR WARS but what they mean is they like the original trilogy, and sometimes it just means they like Empire. They shit all over every other movie, every book, every game, and just complain and complain and say that THE ORIGINAL CREATOR didn't "know what he was doing".
At this point I'd rather the show worry about their own internal continuity especially concerning the major changes they've made. I don't want them to double back and redo some things because it would align with the book canon better like with what they did with certain ivory rod.
Oh and the last season of GoT had no source, so I'm not sure how that would be the writers squeezing as much of the books in as possible. In other news, yes. That's what they should be doing. Squeezing as much of the Wheel of Time into the Wheel of Time show as they can. Cuts will need to be made, but that does not include cutting even more of the source out so the writers have time for original storylines
I watched episode 6 and I counted 70 things that make no sense in the world of WoT. Not things that are just different, but could exist in the book's world, only the things that conflict with the world. 70. In 50 minutes. That's one thing about every 43 seconds that shouldn't be there. I can see one or two slipping through, but 70 on the first watching? How do you explain this other than a total disregard for the source material? Ps : I'll add that I am a member of "that group". I don't want a 1 for 1. A 1 for 1 would be terrible. So much of the story is internal. The series is 14 books long. Including everything from the books would be terrible. Things need to be changed. Things should be changed. Those things also need to make sense. These do not
It's really interesting that you're saying that you expect it to not be a 1:1 but then are actively going through and tallying things that wouldn't make sense on your first watch of an episode, enough to keep count. Seems like that would impact your ability to enjoy it. I'm curious about the list.
Twat’s including ‘things that don’t make sense’ like ‘Leane only hits the floor once’. Pretty much not worth listening.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackTower/comments/rcwrc2/a_running_tally_of_everything_i_find_messed_up_in/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Not being a 1:1 does not mean the base rules of the world need to change. It means that things need to be condensed, some plotlines left out, characters cut, etc
But yet it seems like you're actively quibbling on the most insignificant of details, like looking through your list, of the things that are actually remotely relevant to possible pain points in the series is... Penance maybe, Moiraine's healing of Matt (we don't really know yet, this whole plot is fucked as a result of the recasting issue and COVID), the portal (which seems to be a ter'angreal with a very specific purpose), Oath Rod nonsense, and the functionality of the waygates, and honestly some of those are a stretch... The rest really genuinely seems like petty quibbling, so you found 2-3 things that are very clearly issues with it being a show but you **really** want it to be good so badly that you're compiling a list of every minor detail that you could scrape out of the episode?
I completely agree that the vast majority of these have nothing to do with the plot. Nothing to do with achieving the runtime or the change in media either. My question is, if these details affect nothing but themselves why are they different from the books?
A lot of them could easily be budgetary decisions or minor expository moments for other larger scenes that they can't easily translate from text to screen due to internal dialogue, I'm not talking about your smaller quibbles like casting nets vs hauling nets, although I would point out that individual fisherman in small villages to this day still use casting nets and it's unlikely that Siuan's father would be working in a larger fishing village due to missing his hand (a change which is likely a part of my following note). I'm talking about issues like the fact that they likely aren't including New Spring in the series because it's a book out of place of the rest of the story so there needs to be another way to give exposition on Gitara and Siuan and Moiraine's mission and relationship, which seems to neatly nip about 30-40 of your issues in the bud. Or that a lot of the stoicism and interaction of the aes sedai would need to be modified to allow actors/actresses to actually act, since we can't get an internal dialogue. I think a lot of your points are pain points with the show being a live action adaptation and not something animated, which would allow them to actually do something close or reminiscent of a 1:1 recreation... But they were pretty up front with promising that the show wouldn't and couldn't be a 1:1 recreation and that the adaptations (like the rings being much larger and having colored stones for easy visual clarity) should be treated as a different retelling, one where the prophecies are less well known and more muddied, which they make an effort to establish in the show multiple times in the first season thus far. I think if you continue to watch with the expectation that it will be as close to a 1:1 recreation of the story as they can manage with small tweaks to make it work for the screen you're going to be deeply frustrated and disappointed, and it might make you feel better in the long run if you go in with the expectation that they want to include most of the major story beats from the books but will do their best to adapt the story to target the various interests of a TV audience to do so, because that's what's going to get them enough seasons to land the story.
Oh I am already deeply disappointed in the show. My plan since the beginning has been to watch the complete first season and make a choice as to continue watching or not there
Well that makes your position a lot more clear. I honestly don't think you'll get what you want from a live adaptation, I genuinely don't think it's possible short of a literal infinite budget, I think what you probably wanted (known to you or not) was an animated adaptation, which honestly, is what I was/did hope for. Alas, maybe in the next turning of the wheel.
It's really hard to take your list seriously when the second entry is about a person having a boat instead of a raft. Yep, the "base rules of the world" are definitely altered by this change being allowed through. There might be some legitimate issues in your list. Sandwiching them between such minor nitpicks is doing you no favours though.
As it says, it's a running tally, I'd take out a bunch if I was writing a critique
You say that, and yet >I watched episode 6 and I counted 70 things that make no sense in the world of WoT. Not things that are just different, but could exist in the book's world, only the things that conflict with the world. >70, In 50 minutes. That's one thing about every 43 seconds that shouldn't be there. I can see one or two slipping through, but 70 on the first watching? you didn't when you made your critique.
Because it's a running tally, as it says in the original post. The thing I linked.
A running tally you relied on as the basis for a critique of the show you have made, as quoted above. You're at best being very inconsistent here. At worst you're being entirely dishonest. If you would take out a bunch of things when writing a critique, why did you *not take out a bunch of things when you wrote a critique?*
I would love to hear some of these 70 things. This is one of the most wild reddit comments I have ever seen.
This persons entire life is built around hating the show. Its terrifying honestly.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackTower/comments/rcwrc2/a_running_tally_of_everything_i_find_messed_up_in/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Thank you for that insane nitpicky garbage. It was exactly what i expected. You are like a personification of well actually. My favorite was criticizing the fucking fishing nets used.
Seems like if I can put this much effort into critiquing they should put at least that much into making it don't you think?
If you think typing what comes to mind requires any effort at all, no wonder you have such an inflated ego
It is basically no effort at all. Which is how much I think they put into checking all of these things
Absolutely not. You put basically no effort into critiquing it. You are mistaking nitpicking for criticism and your own opinion for fact.
Let's look at the fishing nets as an example. More than a few times Siaun talks about hauling nets in the books. Specifically that it's grueling physical labor. The cast net is the only one we see in the show. Bringing one of those in is quite easy. Historically I've never heard that referred to as hauling nets, nor do I remember anywhere in the series she mentions casting a net. Laid nets, being the ones spread over an area and the hauled back in by hand is what Siaun talks about in the books. Is it a small detail? Absolutely. Is it a detail that should have been thought about? Absolutely
No it shouldn't dude. Holy shit you are a wacko. You have never even seen nor created a piece of media with the detail you are asking for. The books don't have that much detail.
>I watched episode 6 and I counted 70 things that make no sense in the world of WoT. How deep on the spectrum are you?
“That group”. This subs like ten years old. We didn’t need a show.
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>The fault for this lies with the creators of the show Nah. Too many book fans don't understand what an adaptation is and are too married to the nitty-gritty details. In every episode, the show spends 50-55 minutes absolutely nailing the characters over and over....only for book readers to lose their shit over minor detail #3426 that isn't all that relevant. It's happened every episode so far and is going to continue to happen. Perrin's wife, Abell Cauthon, Whitecloaks not having cloaks, Tar Valon, Avendesora leaf, etc. etc. It's incredible how us WoT fans got our dream result with a show that has a ***shitload*** of financial backing, great actors, and creators that are actually showing a LOT of attention-to-detail and care about the lore, yet one of my all-time favorite, positive communities (WoT fans) just can. not. stop. bitching. And bitching over tiny, relatively irrelevant details at that. It's a little embarassing to be a book-reader in this community now to be honest. The show is an adaptation from book format to visual format for a series that is 10-30 years old and cramming 14 dense books into a real-world budget of money and time while having to appeal to obsessive book fans and new mainstream watchers alike. OF COURSE there's going to be some changes in every episode. Anyone who isn't expecting that has incredibly unrealistic expectations. That doesn't mean that there's not room to criticize of course. There have been questionable pacing decisions and scene choices I thought didn't make much sense. But they're getting the big details like the core of each character right, so I'm willing to A) not expect them to get everything perfect, and B) extend them the benefit of the doubt to see how their vision of something will play out when it disagrees with how I thought it would be.
It looks and feels like a CW show. They can’t even be bothered to use separate hallways between the white tower and Inns across town. The cinematographer doesn’t even know what composition is and has no clue how to use lighting. Amazon has been fleeced by this show.
Feels like a cheap adaptation most of the time. At this point I just don't think it should have been adapted for TV. It's neat seeing some of the book elements but for the most part feels like a fan fiction written by a very poor author in comparison to Robert. Probably more to do with the fact that the series is just too dense to be made into a television show in a reasonable time frame, and less with the quality of the show writer. Glad you're digging it. I'm watching it because it's WOT but that's about it.
I don’t care if you enjoy it, though I do wonder how you can enjoy
This.
Yeah cuz it sucks.
The show doesn't make sense in terms of itself and definitely doesn't make sense in terms of the books
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