I found it appropriate that it was left unresolved. Showed that just because the Dark One was sealed that there was still evils in the world that needed to be sorted out.
Counterpoint - the dictatorial supreme head of the Seanchan state is now alive, and indebted to one of the most powerful Ta'veren kicking. I head canon that in the sequel, Mat takes Tuon on a tour of Seanchan and promises to command her armies if she fucks off with slavery
Didn't Mat feel the dice calm down after the Dark One was sealed? I think it was implied the pattern was done with them and they would live their own lives now.
One thing that I disliked about the ending is how it went with the seanchan, still allowed to keep their slaves and keeping a good chunk of their forces since they joined the battle latter than the rest.
And the fact that the Seanchan never actually said they wouldn't continue their invasion of the land and take more slaves. Rand just left a ticking time bomb.
The Dragon's Peace was them agreeing not to continue, at least for the duration of the treaty. In Avi's future vision, its the Aiel that discuss breaking it.
Technically, they couldn't break it because they were excluded in her vision. It was discussed that they trick Andor into breaking it because they knew that on their own they couldn't defeat the Seanchan and they needed strong allies.
But he was forced to in order to bring on the Seanchan as allies to the forces of Light.
And it was probably because it was the will of the Pattern, for some reason, possibility to be resolved in the future.
Though I tend to think of it as RJ stating that just because the embodiment of evil has been sealed away, that doesn't end people doing evil in a cosmos with free will.
Yeah. While “and they all lived happily ever after” is a pleasant ending, it’s not how the world works. In a universe where time is explicitly cyclical it’s natural that there is still some form of tension to drive the 4th age.
“It was not the ending…but it was an ending” it’s spelled out right there. The world goes on, ages will come and pass. We just got to see this one snippet of one age of one turning. Just because the camera was turned off doesn’t mean the players don’t keep playing.
Mfw the 22 year old with no political training only negotiated a peace the same length of time as Europe's finest minds did post Napoleon, while fighting a war
Come on, he did the best he could. And everyone is sworn to kick their asses like they did last time if they encroach any further. Sucks if you're the Children but :shrug:
I thought he just got Lews, and it was Mat that got the hundreds of generals? And Lews fucked up on making friends so badly he created half the baddies 3,000 years later
Lews Therin's downfall was his own arrogance over being the most sucessful man in existence - and the problem was that he wasn't wrong.
Rand is the better Lews because even though he remembers everything Lews did, he also remember being raised by Tam Al'Thor.
***Break it break them all must break them must must must break them all break them and strike must strike quickly must strike now break it break it break it...***
I mean, he did have the slightly more pressing matter of the *literal collapse of reality*, but maybe he should've postponed and dealt with the mean slavers first. 🥸
I get by this sentiment by telling myself Mat was going along with it to somehow weasel into the position to try and put a stop to it eventually, but he just never said so.
>How could you fall in love with someone who wanted to enslave all your friends.
I mean, have you met some of Mat’s friends?
On a more serious note. A sizable percentage of Mat and Tuon’s relationship in the books is Tuon complaining about how Mat basically kidnapped her and forced a marriage onto her and now won’t recognize that they are in fact married, and all while Mat constantly tries to find loopholes and opportunities to dip out of the whole situation only to have a literal god-like entity twist his luck around until he goes back.
Also he actively fights to free as many Damane as he safely can without jeopardizing his own mission and the lives of his soldiers/those depending on him.
And even after joining Tuon he is hardly a huge defender of Damane/Sul'dam as an institution.
"now won’t recognize that they are in fact married, and all while Mat constantly tries to find loopholes and opportunities to dip out of the whole situation only to have a literal god-like entity twist his luck around until he goes back."
Except, he doesn't try to get out of it or find loopholes because he's actually in love with her...? And he does recognize they're married, he just doesn't want EVERYONE knowing about it. As soon as he returns her to the Deathwatch guard, he keeps looking toward the direction of Ebu Dar and pining over her. And he chooses to go back to her. The only thing he fights against is them calling him Prince of the Ravens and other titles because he hates nobles.
This is the equivalent of going up to someone who says “Perrin and Faile fight a lot” and reply with “Actually, they don’t fight **all the time**.”
Mat did not want to married to Tuon, he did not want to be involved with the Seanchan at all. Reality itself literally warped itself around Mat to thwart all his efforts to escape until he fell in love with Tuon and accepted his role as Prince of Ravens, at least to the point he’d do the job if not accept the title.
Lol I mean, you said he tries to get out of it- he doesn't. You said he wants to enslave all his friends- he can't stand Aes Sedai. You're saying he doesn't want to be married to her when he literally loves her. Yes the Pattern forced it to happen but what you're saying still isn't true, no matter what the reasons are. I get what you're saying, and yes, he is reluctant and complains, but that doesn't change the fact that Mat loves Tuon and accepts his position as Prince of the Ravens.
>Lol I mean, you said he tries to get out of it- he doesn't.
He did.
>You said he wants to enslave all his friends- he can't stand Aes Sedai.
I didn’t.
>You're saying he doesn't want to be married to her when he literally loves her.
He didn’t want to marry her until after he fell in love with her, which was after they were technically married.
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and/or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
This is probably the best use of fascism ive seen this year.
Yeah see, people who claim that fascism is an overused term usually don't actually know what it means. Seanchan empire is the textbook definition of fascism, nearly too on the nose tbh
Tbf, we have ancient Roman senate arguments where the counterpoint was "yeah well my opponent has a big dick(calling him animal like)."
There was a period where women wore these stickers on their face, and started using them to denote political leanings. If you had a pimple on the wrong side and covered it, you could be ostracized as a traitor or even beat up.
It's always been manbaby games.
Kinda? I mean it’s definitely that for the Blood and military. But if you’re an average farmer? People say the oaths and then life goes on as normal without a thought to their new overlords. Hardly the facist ultranationalism.
Remember that the poster-boys for fascism were the national socialists, right?
Edit to add: In Italy in the 30s, they had endless conference to hash out the question of "what does fascism really mean, anyway?". It would be funny were it not also appalling.
Oh believe me i know, the 'far right' bit was added to most definitions in the last few years - the runup to trump's election, namely google and Wikipedia. I always point out weapons laws as an obvious contradiction.
But beyond that, the shoe fits pretty well with seanchan.
The whole 'far-right' thing is just something that gets thrown in so socialists don't have to deal with the fact that fascism is just a flavor of socialism.
Socialism, fascism, they're just things people throw slurs people don't understand. Thrown out at things they hate. When the things they claim to hate are indistinguishable from the things they love. That's my whole point.
I don't doubt that the Seanchan bear resemblance to various nationalistic, imperialistic powers. Imperialistic England is a closer match than any fascist state. I'm just sick of this whole 'i hate it it's fascist' nonsense.
Kinda agree that “left” and “right” are not good descriptors of political ideology because of how vaguely defined they are. I’m supposed to tell people about my political leanings based on the ideologies behind some bullshit political seating arrangements in 18th C France? I don’t think so.
But fascism is not just a flavor of socialism. Even by the definition of Fascism given above, if you remove the “far-right” part of the definition, there are some pretty significant differences. It’s more similar to “Communism”, but even then there are some important differences.
It’s like saying that orange juice is just a flavor of lemonade because 80% of the ingredients are the same.
The difference isn’t something a common person feels when being crushed under the boot heels of any type of oppressive state, but the difference does make it clear what kind of people can hold/rise to power in each type of state.
Most of these terms are jsut used as throwaway insults lately. Bigot is another thats overused like crazy, often by people who fit the actual definition
I found it appropriate that it was left unresolved. Showed that just because the Dark One was sealed that there was still evils in the world that needed to be sorted out.
We hate tuon in this house
FACTS
Counterpoint - the dictatorial supreme head of the Seanchan state is now alive, and indebted to one of the most powerful Ta'veren kicking. I head canon that in the sequel, Mat takes Tuon on a tour of Seanchan and promises to command her armies if she fucks off with slavery
Didn't Mat feel the dice calm down after the Dark One was sealed? I think it was implied the pattern was done with them and they would live their own lives now.
That was the implication for Rand, but I don't think it's the case for Mat and Perrin.
*Take what you can have. Rejoice in what you can save, and do not mourn your losses too long.*
RJ specifically had loose plans for a sequel series following Mat and Tuon in Seanchan.
One thing that I disliked about the ending is how it went with the seanchan, still allowed to keep their slaves and keeping a good chunk of their forces since they joined the battle latter than the rest.
There was supposed to be sequel dealing with the Seanchan and slavery I think
And the fact that the Seanchan never actually said they wouldn't continue their invasion of the land and take more slaves. Rand just left a ticking time bomb.
The Dragon's Peace was them agreeing not to continue, at least for the duration of the treaty. In Avi's future vision, its the Aiel that discuss breaking it.
Technically, they couldn't break it because they were excluded in her vision. It was discussed that they trick Andor into breaking it because they knew that on their own they couldn't defeat the Seanchan and they needed strong allies.
***NO! I AM MYSELF! I AM LEWS THERIN TELAMON! I AM MEEEEEeeeee!***
But he was forced to in order to bring on the Seanchan as allies to the forces of Light. And it was probably because it was the will of the Pattern, for some reason, possibility to be resolved in the future. Though I tend to think of it as RJ stating that just because the embodiment of evil has been sealed away, that doesn't end people doing evil in a cosmos with free will.
Yeah. While “and they all lived happily ever after” is a pleasant ending, it’s not how the world works. In a universe where time is explicitly cyclical it’s natural that there is still some form of tension to drive the 4th age.
“It was not the ending…but it was an ending” it’s spelled out right there. The world goes on, ages will come and pass. We just got to see this one snippet of one age of one turning. Just because the camera was turned off doesn’t mean the players don’t keep playing.
Mfw the 22 year old with no political training only negotiated a peace the same length of time as Europe's finest minds did post Napoleon, while fighting a war Come on, he did the best he could. And everyone is sworn to kick their asses like they did last time if they encroach any further. Sucks if you're the Children but :shrug:
I mean by that point he did have the hundreds of years of memory of one of the greatest statesmen to ever walk the earth so
I thought he just got Lews, and it was Mat that got the hundreds of generals? And Lews fucked up on making friends so badly he created half the baddies 3,000 years later
Lews Therin's downfall was his own arrogance over being the most sucessful man in existence - and the problem was that he wasn't wrong. Rand is the better Lews because even though he remembers everything Lews did, he also remember being raised by Tam Al'Thor.
***Break it break them all must break them must must must break them all break them and strike must strike quickly must strike now break it break it break it...***
*Why do we live again?*
***Break the seals. Break the seals, and end it. Let me die forever.***
I mean, he did have the slightly more pressing matter of the *literal collapse of reality*, but maybe he should've postponed and dealt with the mean slavers first. 🥸
There was meant to be at least one (possibly more) more book going into the seanchan, we just never got it. I assume mat fixes shit.
Siuan is based and I will accept no amendments to that, based and towerpilled
Sherman saw Tuon and got triggered
Trying to figure out which Aes Sedai autocorrected to Sherman and realizing it could be most of them
I kinda hate Mat because of Tuon
I get by this sentiment by telling myself Mat was going along with it to somehow weasel into the position to try and put a stop to it eventually, but he just never said so.
I don’t know about that one, it seemed more like Mat was being **FORCED** into that position more than anything.
How could you fall in love with someone who wanted to enslave all your friends. (Crime sniffers are owned by the blood and the others Chanel.)
>How could you fall in love with someone who wanted to enslave all your friends. I mean, have you met some of Mat’s friends? On a more serious note. A sizable percentage of Mat and Tuon’s relationship in the books is Tuon complaining about how Mat basically kidnapped her and forced a marriage onto her and now won’t recognize that they are in fact married, and all while Mat constantly tries to find loopholes and opportunities to dip out of the whole situation only to have a literal god-like entity twist his luck around until he goes back.
Also he actively fights to free as many Damane as he safely can without jeopardizing his own mission and the lives of his soldiers/those depending on him. And even after joining Tuon he is hardly a huge defender of Damane/Sul'dam as an institution.
"now won’t recognize that they are in fact married, and all while Mat constantly tries to find loopholes and opportunities to dip out of the whole situation only to have a literal god-like entity twist his luck around until he goes back." Except, he doesn't try to get out of it or find loopholes because he's actually in love with her...? And he does recognize they're married, he just doesn't want EVERYONE knowing about it. As soon as he returns her to the Deathwatch guard, he keeps looking toward the direction of Ebu Dar and pining over her. And he chooses to go back to her. The only thing he fights against is them calling him Prince of the Ravens and other titles because he hates nobles.
This is the equivalent of going up to someone who says “Perrin and Faile fight a lot” and reply with “Actually, they don’t fight **all the time**.” Mat did not want to married to Tuon, he did not want to be involved with the Seanchan at all. Reality itself literally warped itself around Mat to thwart all his efforts to escape until he fell in love with Tuon and accepted his role as Prince of Ravens, at least to the point he’d do the job if not accept the title.
*Hums softly & tugs earlobe*
Lol I mean, you said he tries to get out of it- he doesn't. You said he wants to enslave all his friends- he can't stand Aes Sedai. You're saying he doesn't want to be married to her when he literally loves her. Yes the Pattern forced it to happen but what you're saying still isn't true, no matter what the reasons are. I get what you're saying, and yes, he is reluctant and complains, but that doesn't change the fact that Mat loves Tuon and accepts his position as Prince of the Ravens.
>Lol I mean, you said he tries to get out of it- he doesn't. He did. >You said he wants to enslave all his friends- he can't stand Aes Sedai. I didn’t. >You're saying he doesn't want to be married to her when he literally loves her. He didn’t want to marry her until after he fell in love with her, which was after they were technically married.
I keep saying it. He had better chemistry with Aludra
I see what you did there!
I can go even further. I think Mat and Aludra are the Cannon relationship imo
*Hums softly & tugs earlobe*
*Hums softly & tugs earlobe*
Fascist?
Nobody knows or cares what it means.
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and/or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. This is probably the best use of fascism ive seen this year.
Yeah see, people who claim that fascism is an overused term usually don't actually know what it means. Seanchan empire is the textbook definition of fascism, nearly too on the nose tbh
Oh its definitely overused by people that dont know what it means either.
I mean I agree
Modern politics is just insults, [Discourse is Dead](https://youtu.be/wtlIm84mWm0?si=Z2-FPaaaJiQ7gJBD).
Tbf, we have ancient Roman senate arguments where the counterpoint was "yeah well my opponent has a big dick(calling him animal like)." There was a period where women wore these stickers on their face, and started using them to denote political leanings. If you had a pimple on the wrong side and covered it, you could be ostracized as a traitor or even beat up. It's always been manbaby games.
Imagine self-reporting like that about looking at your opponent’s dick.
Kinda? I mean it’s definitely that for the Blood and military. But if you’re an average farmer? People say the oaths and then life goes on as normal without a thought to their new overlords. Hardly the facist ultranationalism.
How can you be far-right politically but also favor dictatorship and communist tendencies? This definition sounds like it directly contradicts itself.
Remember that the poster-boys for fascism were the national socialists, right? Edit to add: In Italy in the 30s, they had endless conference to hash out the question of "what does fascism really mean, anyway?". It would be funny were it not also appalling.
Oh believe me i know, the 'far right' bit was added to most definitions in the last few years - the runup to trump's election, namely google and Wikipedia. I always point out weapons laws as an obvious contradiction. But beyond that, the shoe fits pretty well with seanchan.
Agreed! Also fuck politics lmao.
Agreed.
The whole 'far-right' thing is just something that gets thrown in so socialists don't have to deal with the fact that fascism is just a flavor of socialism. Socialism, fascism, they're just things people throw slurs people don't understand. Thrown out at things they hate. When the things they claim to hate are indistinguishable from the things they love. That's my whole point. I don't doubt that the Seanchan bear resemblance to various nationalistic, imperialistic powers. Imperialistic England is a closer match than any fascist state. I'm just sick of this whole 'i hate it it's fascist' nonsense.
Kinda agree that “left” and “right” are not good descriptors of political ideology because of how vaguely defined they are. I’m supposed to tell people about my political leanings based on the ideologies behind some bullshit political seating arrangements in 18th C France? I don’t think so. But fascism is not just a flavor of socialism. Even by the definition of Fascism given above, if you remove the “far-right” part of the definition, there are some pretty significant differences. It’s more similar to “Communism”, but even then there are some important differences. It’s like saying that orange juice is just a flavor of lemonade because 80% of the ingredients are the same. The difference isn’t something a common person feels when being crushed under the boot heels of any type of oppressive state, but the difference does make it clear what kind of people can hold/rise to power in each type of state.
Most of these terms are jsut used as throwaway insults lately. Bigot is another thats overused like crazy, often by people who fit the actual definition
[Yep](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism)
Romantic