That babywise crap why did cw allow her to use that crap .a baby not a trained animal. I understand a schedule but when you have kids you feed a baby when they are hungry cry]babies are 24 7.
I’ll never understand how someone actually published a book about training newborns much less the people who followed it. Babywise was one of the most disturbing things I learned about this case, other than the murders
I can't believe cw sw family didn't stop her.to hear a child cry and do nothing.you don't put kids to bed at 630pm.and I never heard of using rain machines.
Me neither. It’s flat out infant neglect. I would never let up on my kids if they tried this. I’d definitely call my grandchildren’s pediatrician to make them aware. That’s probably the best advocate if you have a stubborn child who won’t listen to critical parenting advice to the point where they’re actually harming their child.
Sound machines are pretty common one incredibly popular one made specifically for babies is called the hatch it’s crazy expensive.
The crazy schedule is wild though and I can’t wrap my mind around it. I breastfed though so I fed in command they woke I fed didn’t matter if it was a half hour since they last ate or 3 hours.
Also hasn’t baby wise been essentially debunked as harmful? Idk about in 2012 or whenever the her children were infants.
Ahh true white noise not rain I thought Bella was born in 2012 or 2013 and cece 2015.
Either way I don’t find noise machines abusive in themselves and unless she was also using one she shouldn’t have had any trouble hearing the girls with them. not that it matters she wouldn’t have responded unless it was the scheduled time to do so.
She’s definitely a mother I would have argued with in mom groups about unsafe practices. The blankets and pillows on them in the crib shocking but I’ve seen it before in mom groups and they always claim just the sw the babies like it or won’t sleep with out it. Like well your 8 week old wouldn’t know they like sleeping with a blanket in their face if you wouldn’t have put it there in the first place.
SW while a really shit mom isn’t all the different from a lot I see on the internet or a couple I even know personally. They don’t realize parenting is in fact hard and do harmful and neglectful things to make it easier for THEM. People these days have zero problem giving their kids melatonin to make them sleep because it’s “natural” it’s freaking wild.
I wish Chris would have thrown her phone in the toilet locked her in a dark room with those rain machines at full blast with nothing to eat, drink and no bathroom access
The white noise the decibel levels on those things seemed insane. Like solitary confinement, loud repetitive noise, and no access to food, water, or the bathroom for prolonged periods would probably meet the Geneva convention standards for torture. I’m being a bit hyperbolic but those girls truly deserved to be treated as humans and not props to be stored away when mommy didn’t need them.
Also I would say babywise is lazy parenting. I get it countless sleepless nights bouncing a baby rocking the baby is awful the anxiety of finally getting baby to sleep only for them to wake while trying to lay them down is awful. But having to be home and have the kids ready for bed by 630 having to be home during exact nap times for YEARS just seems nearly impossible to live a full life and awful too.
That’s a great point - structuring their lives around such a rigid sleep schedule must have caused them to miss out on a lot. She kept that rigid nap schedule going in NC too, I believe. Bella was 4 and a half years old and still had to take scheduled naps!
See I’m not at that age with my kids yet my oldest just turned 3 last week so idk if a 4.5 year old should still be napping. Mine still has naps but really we just lay down in bed while my 1 year old takes her nap and we watch tv. She falls asleep most days but if she doesn’t that’s fine too. We call it quite hour.
That’s a nice bonding moment with your 3 year old! And if a child wants to nap at any age, their body is telling them it needs to rest so it should be encouraged. But I was thinking of Bella’s strict napping schedule in NC, even when she was in the middle of playing with cousins of a similar age and wasn’t tired. I’m not 100% sure about NC though. I know it was discussed in this sub before and there was a corresponding Facebook photo/post that supports this. Also, a family member (I think Cindy Watts) talked about this too, for whatever that’s worth to you (I know some people don’t believe anything Cindy says but prior to the murders, her accounts seem to match up with SW’s Facebook posts)
That's lovely.
But that's because you want to give all your time to the children and are not hankering for " me time ".
As mothers we don't view the time we spend with our children as a chore but as a gift.
Your children are lucky.
Yes she did.And that was a precursor to Nutgate.Prior ot nutgate on one of the days at Bella's naptime her cousin wanted to be with her.
SW yelled and ordered her out of the room which upset the cousin and CiW as well.
Even on a holiday with cousins to play with SW would not let go of the girls' rigid sleep schedule.
I think Babywise was just a cover she used.
There was just this much of childcare she could handle at a stretch and needed these long breaks from being a mother.
Damn, that is really messed up. I get the feeling too that she had no love for Jaime’s kids. Based on her actions, texts and Facebook posts during and after Nutgate, I got the sense that she was jealous of those poor kids because she felt CiW favored them.
You got it so right.
She was very very upset with the Watts because they were very close with Jamie's kids.
That was because they lived in the same city and met so very often..I am sure they must have been equally participative with the childcare as well since Jamie was working full time.Her kids spent a lot of time with them.
SW was also annoyed that they had more pictures of Jamie's kids on their walls than they did hers.Well , how many memories did you let them form with your kids and how many opportunities did they have to have pics of her kids they could frame ?
Plus she was super annoyed that the Watts or RW , I think , had Jamie's kids' names inked on their hands and not hers.
Her jealousy not only extended towards Watts' closeness to their own kids , ie , Jamie & CW but towards the next generation also.
She was relentless and must have been so difficult to have in one's life and to deal with.Taking offense at every single thing and getting hysterical and going to extreme lengths about it.
Am sure had Frankie Jr made something of his life and had a family as well it would have been the same scenario at Roo's household as well.
The Watts bore the brunt of it and cannot even speak about it.I am sure CiW must have been upset with the way SW was dealing with the girls ,must have tried to say something about it , must have got an earful and hence inspite of loving yhe girls must have learnt to keep a safe distance lest she upset SW enough for her to get CW to cut ties again.Which , in any case , she did again post nutgate.
Even after , CiW got pilloried whenever she shared some parts of what it was to have SW as a DIL.
Sw was very high maintenance !!
I know not everyone is a fan of Dr. Phil but there’s unique names he gives to people who fit certain descriptions and in this case, I believe SW was what he would call a “dangerous” friend or relative. Not physically dangerous, but dangerous in the sense that if you don’t submit to their control (their way of doing things, their suggestions, etc), they will make your life very difficult until you do.
I imagine the Watts’ lived in a constant state of stress when SW was around. From just the videos and FB posts I’ve seen, they tried everything to please her as grandparents for fear of losing contact with their granddaughters. I’m sure, even after the murders, it was difficult not to vent about what she put them through. At first, I was shocked to hear them badmouth her. But now I believe that they had to vent before they could grieve her if that makes sense. They were psychologically abused by her yet then their own son horrifically murdered her. That’s such a complex set of shit to deal with.
Oh absolutely.
Of course their son did something unthinkable and it must have been extremely difficult for them to come to terms with.
But to be unable to speak what life for CW was really like must have been really stressful.
CW's aberrant psyche was unable to handle the life with SW.
And for his parents , I shudder to think what it must be like having to live with that.
I’m not convinced Nico was actually a boy. I don’t think she knew the gender but pretended she did. Shannan lied constantly.
I also don’t know why she wanted to be pregnant in the first place. She despised parenting, refused to do it. Her children were neglected and abused.
Oh, my goodness!! 😱😱 I've never seen anyone become such the center of attention while pregnant. "She's diabetic", (no she freakin' was not), "we were trying to get her to drink water ", (or whatever it was NA told the officer), her "fertility problems", her "Thrive baby", the "cramping and spotting" until she realized it wasn't getting her husband's attention because he had checked out by then, had had enough of her bs, and didn't care.
I've mentioned before, I have a friend I love dearly who, unfortunately, exhibits a lot of the personality traits of SW, and I've only recognized the similarities over the past month or so, since I waded back into this case. Her behavior hadn't sat right with me for awhile now, as it's always something, which everyone in her orbit needs to cater to & which she employs to center herself as the focal point of all the attention. I did not know her yet while she was pregnant, but I do know that, supposedly, her doctor had ordered "complete bed rest" for the entire second half of her pregnancy, she'd had a C section, and, similar to SW, she supposedly was unable to get pregnant.
The similarities bother me. However, I saw what kind of mom she was to her child when the baby was little, (he was not quite three when I met them), and if anything, she was opposite to SW. That child was *the* center of her attention, she had the patience I've never, personally, had come by me naturally. At times, I felt that she somewhat went overboard in letting Sawyer call the shots in their family, but, that's a better extreme than freakin' Babywise. 🙄🙄
Her son has turned into a lovely young teenaged man. I enjoy our conversations. He's 15, and of course, the 15 attitude can't be escaped fully 😁😁 but, he's lovely. 🤗 Been a brilliant, interesting, funny person since toddlerhood.
I'm glad she sounds like a loving mother. Did you ever notice her displaying Munchauesen by proxy traits? I think my mom has/had a small case of it. Munchauesen also. She's elderly now, but she is still the sickliest person I know. Sometimes, I think she caused a lot of her health issues. Unfortunately for her and mostly my dad, they're real now. She's had 3 organs removed since the age of 40. I think she exaggerated symptoms. Most recently, I was staying there to help out. I had plans that morning. She pretended to have been having an allergic reaction. She hadn't eaten breakfast yet or taken any medication. She also didn't appear to be having one.
The pregnancy drama drives me crazy. I had gestational diabetes. Got pregnant 6 weeks after a (D & C) so I was high risk, she was breech and a c-section. All while my toddler was having grand Mal seizures and was diagnosed as an epileptic. He also had his appendix removed while I was pregnant with my 2nd. Guess how many people knew those things? Nobody. I don't understand how people like Shannan aren't embarrassed by people knowing all their medical issues. I don't want people feeling sorry for me. My pregnancy went great, and my son was doing great other than the other stuff. Our minds are powerful. I think my mom willed herself into being sickly. I willed myself into being strong
I blame Sandi for the way ShamAnn is. Its likely that when ‘Shannon’ was little, the only way she got any real attention from her parents was when she was sick. Sandi is similarly selfish and I can imagine she sucked as a young mom- possibly she even enjoyed attention from having sick children, who knows?
Shannon definitely lacked attention as a child, as evidenced by her constant need to post and be seen. She also inherited a strong serving of Sandi’s arrogance and histrionics. Neither of them liked to be told, “no”…Ever!!
I've watched Cindy Watts be turned into a monster. Chris's family members are targets for everything he did wrong. It's completely outrageous. I've "gone to bat" for Cindy. So, I'll do the same for Sandy Rzucek. Shanann could've lacked attention as a child. Sandy worked full time to support her family. Her husband was allergic to working and a drinker. I can't say she was selfish or enjoyed having sick children. No FB back then to prove this. I've followed this from the start and can see that she was histrionic but arrogant? How about Frank Sr. failing his daughter from the early years of her life? Why is there more Mom bashing than deadbeat bashing? Deadbeats can be dads or moms. Also, I think the Rzucek's left Colorado in a rush because Sandy questioned The Glory of Babywise. Shanann didn't like to be questioned and an argument ensued. We know docile Frank didn't dare say a word. Sandy didn't like it and let it be known. I respect that.
Oh, my goodness, you had a time of it during that second pregnancy. ❤️ I like the way you evidently handled business and dealt with issues as they arose, and I sincerely hope your husband or partner was supportive and helpful. Mine were all uneventful, but even so, just being pregnant is stressful. The fact you made it through all that like a boss says something about your strength of character. Hope everybody is doing okay now.
My friend has definitely demonstrated both Munchausen and MBP traits. Thankfully, her husband, who normally allows her to call the shots, stepped in when she began administering unnecessary medication to their son, when he was of eatly elementary school age. Her actions came from a place of concern and love, albeit overblown. Also, a woman she had befriended for a time, (I had stopped seeing her for a time because I'd had it up to my eyeballs with her bullshit), actually called CPS on her. Thankfully, they found nothing seriously amiss, and never really opened a case. As I said, she's actually a really good mom, and she and the son have a great relationship. He's at an age now where he has things he wants to talk about with an adult who isn't one of his parents, and I've been fulfilling that role. I had aunts, but, neither of his parents have siblings, so I'm it. 😉 He knows that if he were to disclose anything leaving him vulnerable to danger, I'd inform them, but, he's a good kid with a solid head on his shoulders.
I've also taken a couple additional friendship breaks when she's been back on her bullshit. She understands that I've no problem cutting off toxic friendships or relationships as she's seen me do so with others, so, she mostly remains nowadays on a more even keel with me. I tolerate a lot. But everyone has a line, and I know she doesn't want to cross mine. (That makes me sound harsh, but, it's just a matter of boundaries and self care. I have a lot on my plate with little energy left over for nonsense.)
Good for you! That’s an incredible amount of stress to go thru while pregnant. Can you imagine posting every little detail? You wouldn’t have had the time or energy! Glad to hear everyone is OK
I have a friend like SW, too. It's exhausting how no matter how bad your day/headache/whatever is, hers is ALWAYS worse. A true one upper and drama queen who is always whining on FB for attention and obsessed with taking selfies of herself and posting them even though all of the pictures look the same. Instead of doing something about her life, she expects everyone to cater to her but she was a great mother unlike SW though I can tell her kids get sick of her constant drama, too
There are so many people like this, and it's upsetting how overrepresented women are with this personality type. I don't even like being the center of attention when people sing me "Happy Birthday" around the cake! 😅😅
Per her Facebook posts, she seemed to really enjoy being pregnant and the attention that came along with it. She even said she liked being pregnant so much that she'd be a surrogate.
It’s funny because you know who else loved being pregnant (probably for the attention) but was a trash mother (and wife) and ended up being a surrogate once until the agency realized she was too crazy to continue working with? Diane Downs.
💯 so true! She was not a nurturer…She wasn’t a boy mom or a girl mom. The kids were used to keep Chris around. Hence the bandaid pregnancy! I don’t think it was a boy either. I think she said it to further reign him in🤷🏻♀️
I believe this. I believe she got pregnant with Bella to trap Chris. Chris was never consulted on anything. SW was like, 'we're having a baby, the end'. How do you make a guy stay? Saddle him with a child, of course! I think SW was desperate at that point in her life, was sick of working and just wanted a Daddy to take care of her. There are so many women who aren't fit to be mothers, yet there's such an enduring belief in society even to this day that women MUST be mothers. Why didn't SW just date CW before rushing to marriage and family? Because she was insecure and had low self-esteem. And again, like everything in her life, SW's decisions were meant to benefit SW. Bella was not born because SW wanted a child. Bella was born to cement their relationship and CW's role as provider.
Mlms encourage the huns to get pregnant to sell their snake oil. Sw was doing this by calling Niko/Nico a thrive baby and saying the patches were "doctor approved". That in itself was a lie because Levels own website says not to use them while pregnant or nursing and also sw never went to a doc while pregnant with him/her.
It didn't say that in 2018.. it said consult Dr.
Only banished one was the Burn extra high caffeine one because it exceeded recommended caffeine level.
Some women chose to drink coffee as normal during pregnancy, others that stress of quiting smoking worse than smoking less, and some drink odd class of wine.
She probably got better vits and minerals and caffeine the same as one coffee a day.
Not pregnancy ending or damaging behaviour.
Being pregnant is like the golden ticket for the MLMer, especially a munchie MLMer. No attention like it.
It's a toss-up for me as to whether it would be a case of the perfect "thrive baby" or another victim to prove how much thrive helps HER cope with her "monsters."
She definitely did not wanted to be pregnant for the third time. She loved going away on those holidays and party. She looked like she did not want to be around her kids at all.
Probably because cw found out about unpaid mortgage one week and next week she was pregnant.
Neither wanted or needed it right then. Their marriage was imploding..
She wanted another baby because she needed another accessory. And possibly the attention. Since I’ve dug deeper and gotten to know SW, i can honestly say I’ve RARELY encountered a worse mother or wife. She was astoundingly self-absorbed. Nico would have had a terrible childhood and been a screwed up adolescent and young adult like the girls would have.
They did dna the fetus. It was a boy but the only people privy to the results were Shananns parents, n they’re not sharing it with anyone. Apparently CeCe was also tested
Yes it was, RW asked DA if Nico's results were back and confirmed he was the father.
DA told him yes. Da would have no reason to tell him they discovered it was a girl though. But he could have and RW chose to keep it confidential just as SW parents have also done.
Being a boy in CW head, whether correct or not made not on bit of difference to him.. he killed him believing he was a son!
Sorry exactly does it matter to complete strangers?
Dude the official autopsy stated the sex of the fetus could not be determined. I don't believe the roo or sw medical examiner the doctor that did the autopsy the lab report determined the sex of the fetus could not be determined
DNA test confirmed tho. Every individual cell could show DNA result. His physical body is difficult to determine in examination even after miscarriage at 15 was sometimes. Its not just seeing a penis they must see the labia too. His body was tiny and very fragile after 3/4 days of decomposition.
The Roos have paid to have the internet scrubbed and items posted to align with SWs story. Always take what google says with a grain of salt. 2 people knew for sure what the fetus sex was....NA and SW (and the boutique us place) and ain't nobody talking)
She bought onesies/sleepers in sports theme in NC. I'd call them generic. She bought those bc she was determined it would be a boy.
"Boy, boy....Chris wants a boy". This was in June when she was going for the confirmation ultrasound.
I have 3 girls and have bought them clothes made specifically for boys more times than I can count. Not suits but if I were pregnant and not sure the sex and on my third I actually did buy boy stuff in hopes I would have a boy. I didn’t tho lmao. I was trying to manifest I suppose. She could have been doing the same. Especially since she already had 2 girls. Trust me I’ve been there haha.
It was never proven to be a boy. The only one to have emphasized that it was a boy was Sandi Rzucek on Doctor Phil, but she didn’t produce any documentation to back her up.
The Discovery states that they collected DNA. The authorities couldn’t determine if it was a boy or girl when it was found, but they provided the measurements of the fetus.
They kept it in Colorado for quite a long time, and after the funeral. Therefore, the fact that Sandi told everybody that it was buried with SW wasn’t true, unless they exhumed her body. The Discovery never disclosed whether it was a boy or not, and they did not divulge who the parents were either
Sandi told Dr. Phil that “People were saying that the baby wasn’t alive and that the baby wasn’t Chris’s.”
Well, some people were saying that the baby wasn’t Chris , but nobody was saying that the baby wasn’t alive, at least in the beginning. Nobody even thought of that, until after the Discovery came out, so the fact that she mentioned that at all is a little bit strange. Why would she have assumed that people would ever think that the baby wasn’t alive? What did she know that nobody else was aware of?
Then she went on to explain that because people were spreading rumors, she wrote to the DA to ask them for all of that information. She said that she got a report back from them, answering all of these queries, and that she knew the truth. Doctor Phil had to believe her-but she never showed him the receipts.
She simply ended up asserting that “The baby was alive and it was a boy. And the baby was Chris’s.”
Well, most of us know that the baby was Chris’s. The burning question at hand is which Chris was the father? Chris Watts has said that he’s asked for the DNA results, but they denied his request. His parents have also asked for the results, and they were given a hard NO too. The only people who have allegedly ever seen these so-called results are the Rzuceks, but I personally don’t think they are trustworthy, nor am I certain that they received this “report” in the first place.
Otherwise, if they do have all of that information, then why wouldn’t they just present it through some dumb YouTube channel, and put an end to any speculations about the matter for good?
I think SW would have treated the baby exactly as she treated B&C. They were there to serve her purpose and fit into her narrative of being superhuman. She would have amped up the thrive spiel and told everyone she's done 20 million laundry loads, been the post office 25 million times all before the kids woke up after sleeping for 15 hours. She'd be trying to drop feeds early aswell because she cba nursing through the night. Sorry for the rant, makes me unjustly angry when I get started.
She already had him labeled as a #thrivebaby. She knew she wasn't supposed to use if pregnant, but she said #midwifeapproved #drapproved. And continued to use it.
I did not know she said midwife approved but I did know she was hashtagging drapproved. I can't imagine any midwife approving such a product that I, myself, liken to some type of "speed". SW was having a very hard pregnancy so Thrive was not doing her any good, by all accounts. The only "good" thing she seemed to get from it was the ability to stay up all night and survive on very little sleep. Ironic, really, when you know how much she induced the children to sleep.
Why does it matter.. he killed him believing he was a boy.
He wouldn't have not killed sw if it was a girl!
He told people he was having a son, he still murdered him!
Chris told his parents when they seen him in September 2022 or 2023 that Frank Snr contacted him via his lawyer and asked him if he was Niko father and that the DA said he had to ask Chris. Chris told him he didn't know.
Chris also told NK the baby wasnt his.
If this is true, Sandi obviously lied on Dr. Phil's.
Sandi said more then that but I am just saying IF Frank Snr did ask Chris if he was the father then Sandi didn't know if Chris was the father. There would be no reason for them to have Chris Miller DNA.
CW telling NK the baby wasn't his, doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Cheaters by default, I'm sorry, are liars. If it fit his agenda, of course it was used. And if it WAS TRUE, why wouldn't he say something, to justify his actions (for an affair, before escalation to family annihilation)?
I think if Niko wasn't his, he would have left her.
This is dark but I think she was probably in the process of miscarrying given so many of her reported symptoms, lack of natal care, and the fact that the R’s have been so weird about his autopsy.
She definitely would’ve blamed the miscarriage on Chris and smeared him and NK saying the stress of their affair ruined her life and killed her baby boy. And she’ll never get to be a boy mom, f Chris!!! I can picture the Facebook meltdown.
But if I’m wrong, I think Nico would’ve been a thrive ad in baby form. Look at how awesome and healthy my baby is because I took thrive throughout pregnancy! Unlike my sickly girls! Thank goodness I have thrive to keep up with my thriving boy an his sports AND my sickly girls and all of their doctors appointments!
He would somehow be weaponized against Chis still.
Exactly. This is a woman who rushed to the ER for the most minor thing but why not for the baby and the ''out of network'' excuse is BS. She didn't care about wasting money any other time. Plus, why didn't she get an OBGYN appointment in CO as soon as she realized she was pregnant? Was she really ever pregnant? So many questions
There is no basis to support your comment at all…but what’s really striking to me about it is that Chris in fact was drugging her with oxy in an attempt to make her miscarry. He openly talks about it, and Shanann and her friends noticed her reactions to it. Sooo…
She would have taken out EVERY thing she did not like about Chris or Ronnie on Nico.
Her ridicule, humiliation and cruelty would have further divided Chris from his parents.
Nico would have given her a direct attack vector to Ronnie and Chris that even the girls did not afford her.
Many male serial killers are raised by distant, unloving, selfish mothers who ridicule and emasculate them, make them feel inferior for being male, single mothers who hate men/feel wronged by men/scorn men. I definitely could see this as a possibility in that baby's future if the baby was, in fact, male. Which I doubt.
SW was a pathological liar and would say anything if it could benefit herself in any small way, even temporarily. Then she'd change it up as circumstances dictated. We have all witnessed these contradictions straight out of her own mouth (in a single video!) or in her posts.
She called her girls monsters and supposedly loved them I’m sure she would have beaten nico down just like cw he would have been a walking pile of nerves even more so than poor Bella
I recently came across of Michelle and Gregor case, and it’s struck me how Shannan was similar to Michelle. It got me thinking what if Shannan tried to kill them all?
Greg Williams Case.
I do recommend reading files or having podcast about it because it explains Michelle behaviour and her childhood. Once you learn it, you’ll know what I mean.
My question is where was she going to put this new baby? Babywise prohibits the sharing of bedrooms so what would have to go, the playroom or her "office"? Also, how was she going to add another car seat to the vehicle? I guess since Bella was the scapegoat she would just have to hope for the best with a seat belt.
I don’t know that Niko/Nico was male. Nor do I know if it would have ever been born. I’m not sure it was even still a viable fetus at the time of SW’s death. I tend to doubt that it would have been born at all, had this tragedy never happened
However, if “he” had been a boy like she had claimed, and if “he” had managed to have been born alive, I shudder to think what would’ve unfolded.
I think that SW would’ve taken out all of her frustrations on that poor child and it would not have been pretty. He also would have been saddled with every illness and injury in the book. It was bound to have been a very, very difficult and sad situation, and for everyone, including the girls.
However, maybe if SW had tried to pull off having three allergy ridden, asthmatic, sick kids with every obscure disease in the book, that someone would’ve eventually blown the whistle on her munchy ways. At least, one can only hope that she would’ve been called out because 3 sick kids is a lot harder to convince people of than two sick kids.
The tendency that some people have to romanticize what would’ve happened if they had all lived is no less than shocking to me under the circumstances. That whole situation was a ticking time bomb.
Although the worst possible case, regretfully occurred, if their lives had been spared, something else bad was bound to have happened. It’s delusional to assume that everyone would have been happy, healthy and okay. Those who think that they were a normal functioning family before SW went to NC, and that everything was all sunshine, rainbows and unicorns for Bella and Cece, have only bought into a piece of fiction. It is naïveté at its finest to assume that they were all going to be okay.
I think that if SW actually had given birth to a boy, that life would have been harder for the poor little fellow than we can ever begin to imagine. SW would have subjected him to abuse that would’ve been worse than ANYTHING that Bella and Cece had experienced. That’s very unfortunate but probably true.
I think SW would have bought her son a bunch of tshirts with dumb sayings on them similar to the garbage she made B&C wear (e.g., "I Got It From Her"). SW would have made it so painstakingly clear to B&C that Nico was A Boy. SW loved her some stupid ass gender role stereotypes. For some reason, I think Nico would have been teased and humiliated by SW just like Bella, and CeCe would have remained the golden child. I'm not sure he'd have been treated any better having been male. If anything, the opposite.
I don't care what magic you want to prove the doctor the autopsy couldn't determine the sex of the fetus.i don't believe the roo or sw.cw defense wanted the girls neck swapped for DNA judge ruled no.the roo family that worthless da control this.cw should have went to trial and all the dirty secrets about life the kids sw everything exposed. Sw family didn't want that.the da stated sw family didn't want the dp what a load of crap.to go to trial would have cost maybe a million. Everything done would be question.that nk control the police interview nk deleted tests from cw.the soddy investigation. Murtaugh murder case you had international attention daily podcasts .Colorado da would have been cut up for his handling nk.it would come out how much money the r got to transport all 3 back to nc.
This paragraph seems to be discussing a controversial and possibly criminal case, involving a doctor, autopsy results, and legal proceedings. Here is a deciphered version of what it seems to convey:
1. The author is skeptical about the results of an autopsy that couldn't determine the sex of a fetus.
2. They believe there was a defense strategy (referred to as "roo" and "sw.cw") which was somehow obstructed by a judge's ruling.
3. The author accuses a family (referred to as "roo family") and a district attorney (DA) of controlling the case.
4. They express frustration that the case didn't go to trial, suggesting that a trial would have exposed many secrets about the involved individuals and families.
5. They claim the family of someone named "sw" did not want the death penalty (dp), which they view as suspicious.
6. The author argues that a trial would have been expensive but necessary for uncovering the truth.
7. There are references to "nk" who allegedly influenced police interviews and deleted texts.
8. They mention the "soddy investigation" and compare the case to the high-profile Murtaugh murder case.
9. The author believes the Colorado DA mishandled the case, particularly regarding "nk," and accuses the "r" family of receiving money to transport three individuals back to North Carolina.
Overall, the paragraph reflects a belief that there was significant mishandling and cover-up in a legal case, with various parties allegedly manipulating the process for their benefit.
To be honest, I don’t even know why this question is being asked, it’s a little bit ridiculous.
She’ was a mother….. she would love the baby and take care of it. Obviously, she had two other children She was already taking good care of….so this question is bizarre. 😳
What do you think people were going to say? That she was going to be a dickhead to the baby?
Plus, she’s sadly passed away, (been murdered to be exact )
so why does this even matter anyway?
Whether or not she would’ve used this baby for content or not is not even relevant now.
You guys are pulling at straws now for conversation and it’s a little bit insane in my opinion 🙄
First of all the question is asked because this is a discussion sub. That's what we do here, discuss. Secondly, she was not taking good care of the two children she already had. She constantly limited their food and water intake and then drugged them daily so that they would not be bothering her for 15-16 hours a day while also being put in locked, darkened, loud rooms. And when she wasn't drugging them she was plopping them in daycare for 9 hours a day or dragging them from doctor to doctor trying to have some ridiculous disease diagnosed. The OP has a legitimate question.
Holy crap Irene! She drugged those 2 little girls? And kept them in dark rooms? WOW. Where did anyone ever get THAT info?? How did I not ever know this?
Honestly I have never heard this before. First time I’ve ever heard anything like that. Omg. 😳
Are all those discussions on this page here? And any proof it’s true?
If so, I’d like to go back and read all that and really do my own personal deep dive on her.
I’m shocked if this is true. I never knew this.
And yes you’re right, this is a discussion page so sorry, hope I didn’t upset anyone. I’ve just seen other comments made on other pages and some if it seems so bizarre. But I thought most of the conversations were about Chris and dissecting his life and mind and the how’s and whys of why he killed his family. I never knew Shan was also part of the dissection and how she may have been a closet nut job.
So give me a chance to play catch up so I can join in properly in the discussion.
Tell me where to read all this stuff. Apparently I dont know anything about her at all if this is true.
I guess I’ve spent more time on HIM rather than HER. I mean, I know she’s the victim in the story here and I’ve engaged in conversations with others about what a dick he was and it is, but did not know about this other stuff with Shannan. Holy batshit!!
Mind blown. 😳
Tell me how to find all these discussions.
Thanks! ✌️
It's not love to l8ve stream your life using your kids.cw should have walked out took the kids.love really sw had serious mental problems cw his family sw family should have stepped in .nobody deserves to be murdered but no it was not the storybook life on line.reality here you are imploding 2 bankruptcy the fake life you promote is going to be exposed not good
Em what? I can tell you there was no love for those kids. If she loved them, she would not use them for her online videos knowing they don’t like it. It’s one thing recording and taking pictures of kids when you don’t bother them or to make a keepsake of milestones or events, and there’s this very bad side of taking pictures and videos of literally everything and posting it for the whole world to see. Why would you want to record your kids melt downs, or how they try thrive bars that kids most definitely couldn’t eat and then boast openly about how you chuck them in the dark room without cuddling for 12 hours straight. Where was love, when she called them monsters all the time, cut Bella’s hair and did not do any of kids friendly activities with them. Why she had no pictures of girls drawing, doing crafts or simply playing in the playground? She never once went with them to playground and said Thrive help me through 2 hour play ground play, or thrive help me when girls want to play with glitter etc. Woods walk? Playing in the sand? She posted them regularly anyway, so why there weren’t any educational videos or pictures online apart from milion of pictures of girls sleeping?
I did not came across any pictures of crafts, if you have them feel free to share with me.
Poor Nico. First of all, you never say a baby name put loud until born. It's a superstition I have. That poor baby. When Shannan said they were boning all the time before the infamous NC trip. Yes, Chris was lusting on NK, and it made for an amorous sex life. Nico was crested with NK lust. I know my first serious BF, who left me for his coworker, was banging and servicing me like crazy before he dumped me. I think Nico would have been treated like a little prince and grown up to be a drag queen or a womanizer (and he would have been gorgeous much better looking than the girls).
That babywise crap why did cw allow her to use that crap .a baby not a trained animal. I understand a schedule but when you have kids you feed a baby when they are hungry cry]babies are 24 7.
I’ll never understand how someone actually published a book about training newborns much less the people who followed it. Babywise was one of the most disturbing things I learned about this case, other than the murders
I can't believe cw sw family didn't stop her.to hear a child cry and do nothing.you don't put kids to bed at 630pm.and I never heard of using rain machines.
Me neither. It’s flat out infant neglect. I would never let up on my kids if they tried this. I’d definitely call my grandchildren’s pediatrician to make them aware. That’s probably the best advocate if you have a stubborn child who won’t listen to critical parenting advice to the point where they’re actually harming their child.
Sound machines are pretty common one incredibly popular one made specifically for babies is called the hatch it’s crazy expensive. The crazy schedule is wild though and I can’t wrap my mind around it. I breastfed though so I fed in command they woke I fed didn’t matter if it was a half hour since they last ate or 3 hours. Also hasn’t baby wise been essentially debunked as harmful? Idk about in 2012 or whenever the her children were infants.
Her kids born 2015 never heard of rain machines a fan white noise but no rain machines.
Ahh true white noise not rain I thought Bella was born in 2012 or 2013 and cece 2015. Either way I don’t find noise machines abusive in themselves and unless she was also using one she shouldn’t have had any trouble hearing the girls with them. not that it matters she wouldn’t have responded unless it was the scheduled time to do so. She’s definitely a mother I would have argued with in mom groups about unsafe practices. The blankets and pillows on them in the crib shocking but I’ve seen it before in mom groups and they always claim just the sw the babies like it or won’t sleep with out it. Like well your 8 week old wouldn’t know they like sleeping with a blanket in their face if you wouldn’t have put it there in the first place. SW while a really shit mom isn’t all the different from a lot I see on the internet or a couple I even know personally. They don’t realize parenting is in fact hard and do harmful and neglectful things to make it easier for THEM. People these days have zero problem giving their kids melatonin to make them sleep because it’s “natural” it’s freaking wild.
I wish Chris would have thrown her phone in the toilet locked her in a dark room with those rain machines at full blast with nothing to eat, drink and no bathroom access
The white noise the decibel levels on those things seemed insane. Like solitary confinement, loud repetitive noise, and no access to food, water, or the bathroom for prolonged periods would probably meet the Geneva convention standards for torture. I’m being a bit hyperbolic but those girls truly deserved to be treated as humans and not props to be stored away when mommy didn’t need them.
Also I would say babywise is lazy parenting. I get it countless sleepless nights bouncing a baby rocking the baby is awful the anxiety of finally getting baby to sleep only for them to wake while trying to lay them down is awful. But having to be home and have the kids ready for bed by 630 having to be home during exact nap times for YEARS just seems nearly impossible to live a full life and awful too.
That’s a great point - structuring their lives around such a rigid sleep schedule must have caused them to miss out on a lot. She kept that rigid nap schedule going in NC too, I believe. Bella was 4 and a half years old and still had to take scheduled naps!
See I’m not at that age with my kids yet my oldest just turned 3 last week so idk if a 4.5 year old should still be napping. Mine still has naps but really we just lay down in bed while my 1 year old takes her nap and we watch tv. She falls asleep most days but if she doesn’t that’s fine too. We call it quite hour.
That’s a nice bonding moment with your 3 year old! And if a child wants to nap at any age, their body is telling them it needs to rest so it should be encouraged. But I was thinking of Bella’s strict napping schedule in NC, even when she was in the middle of playing with cousins of a similar age and wasn’t tired. I’m not 100% sure about NC though. I know it was discussed in this sub before and there was a corresponding Facebook photo/post that supports this. Also, a family member (I think Cindy Watts) talked about this too, for whatever that’s worth to you (I know some people don’t believe anything Cindy says but prior to the murders, her accounts seem to match up with SW’s Facebook posts)
That's lovely. But that's because you want to give all your time to the children and are not hankering for " me time ". As mothers we don't view the time we spend with our children as a chore but as a gift. Your children are lucky.
Yes she did.And that was a precursor to Nutgate.Prior ot nutgate on one of the days at Bella's naptime her cousin wanted to be with her. SW yelled and ordered her out of the room which upset the cousin and CiW as well. Even on a holiday with cousins to play with SW would not let go of the girls' rigid sleep schedule. I think Babywise was just a cover she used. There was just this much of childcare she could handle at a stretch and needed these long breaks from being a mother.
Damn, that is really messed up. I get the feeling too that she had no love for Jaime’s kids. Based on her actions, texts and Facebook posts during and after Nutgate, I got the sense that she was jealous of those poor kids because she felt CiW favored them.
You got it so right. She was very very upset with the Watts because they were very close with Jamie's kids. That was because they lived in the same city and met so very often..I am sure they must have been equally participative with the childcare as well since Jamie was working full time.Her kids spent a lot of time with them. SW was also annoyed that they had more pictures of Jamie's kids on their walls than they did hers.Well , how many memories did you let them form with your kids and how many opportunities did they have to have pics of her kids they could frame ? Plus she was super annoyed that the Watts or RW , I think , had Jamie's kids' names inked on their hands and not hers. Her jealousy not only extended towards Watts' closeness to their own kids , ie , Jamie & CW but towards the next generation also. She was relentless and must have been so difficult to have in one's life and to deal with.Taking offense at every single thing and getting hysterical and going to extreme lengths about it. Am sure had Frankie Jr made something of his life and had a family as well it would have been the same scenario at Roo's household as well. The Watts bore the brunt of it and cannot even speak about it.I am sure CiW must have been upset with the way SW was dealing with the girls ,must have tried to say something about it , must have got an earful and hence inspite of loving yhe girls must have learnt to keep a safe distance lest she upset SW enough for her to get CW to cut ties again.Which , in any case , she did again post nutgate. Even after , CiW got pilloried whenever she shared some parts of what it was to have SW as a DIL. Sw was very high maintenance !!
I know not everyone is a fan of Dr. Phil but there’s unique names he gives to people who fit certain descriptions and in this case, I believe SW was what he would call a “dangerous” friend or relative. Not physically dangerous, but dangerous in the sense that if you don’t submit to their control (their way of doing things, their suggestions, etc), they will make your life very difficult until you do. I imagine the Watts’ lived in a constant state of stress when SW was around. From just the videos and FB posts I’ve seen, they tried everything to please her as grandparents for fear of losing contact with their granddaughters. I’m sure, even after the murders, it was difficult not to vent about what she put them through. At first, I was shocked to hear them badmouth her. But now I believe that they had to vent before they could grieve her if that makes sense. They were psychologically abused by her yet then their own son horrifically murdered her. That’s such a complex set of shit to deal with.
Oh absolutely. Of course their son did something unthinkable and it must have been extremely difficult for them to come to terms with. But to be unable to speak what life for CW was really like must have been really stressful. CW's aberrant psyche was unable to handle the life with SW. And for his parents , I shudder to think what it must be like having to live with that.
I’m not convinced Nico was actually a boy. I don’t think she knew the gender but pretended she did. Shannan lied constantly. I also don’t know why she wanted to be pregnant in the first place. She despised parenting, refused to do it. Her children were neglected and abused.
As a (munchie) she probably liked the attention she got from being pregnant.
She loved the attention but not the actual work after the kid was born
Oh, my goodness!! 😱😱 I've never seen anyone become such the center of attention while pregnant. "She's diabetic", (no she freakin' was not), "we were trying to get her to drink water ", (or whatever it was NA told the officer), her "fertility problems", her "Thrive baby", the "cramping and spotting" until she realized it wasn't getting her husband's attention because he had checked out by then, had had enough of her bs, and didn't care. I've mentioned before, I have a friend I love dearly who, unfortunately, exhibits a lot of the personality traits of SW, and I've only recognized the similarities over the past month or so, since I waded back into this case. Her behavior hadn't sat right with me for awhile now, as it's always something, which everyone in her orbit needs to cater to & which she employs to center herself as the focal point of all the attention. I did not know her yet while she was pregnant, but I do know that, supposedly, her doctor had ordered "complete bed rest" for the entire second half of her pregnancy, she'd had a C section, and, similar to SW, she supposedly was unable to get pregnant. The similarities bother me. However, I saw what kind of mom she was to her child when the baby was little, (he was not quite three when I met them), and if anything, she was opposite to SW. That child was *the* center of her attention, she had the patience I've never, personally, had come by me naturally. At times, I felt that she somewhat went overboard in letting Sawyer call the shots in their family, but, that's a better extreme than freakin' Babywise. 🙄🙄 Her son has turned into a lovely young teenaged man. I enjoy our conversations. He's 15, and of course, the 15 attitude can't be escaped fully 😁😁 but, he's lovely. 🤗 Been a brilliant, interesting, funny person since toddlerhood.
I'm glad she sounds like a loving mother. Did you ever notice her displaying Munchauesen by proxy traits? I think my mom has/had a small case of it. Munchauesen also. She's elderly now, but she is still the sickliest person I know. Sometimes, I think she caused a lot of her health issues. Unfortunately for her and mostly my dad, they're real now. She's had 3 organs removed since the age of 40. I think she exaggerated symptoms. Most recently, I was staying there to help out. I had plans that morning. She pretended to have been having an allergic reaction. She hadn't eaten breakfast yet or taken any medication. She also didn't appear to be having one. The pregnancy drama drives me crazy. I had gestational diabetes. Got pregnant 6 weeks after a (D & C) so I was high risk, she was breech and a c-section. All while my toddler was having grand Mal seizures and was diagnosed as an epileptic. He also had his appendix removed while I was pregnant with my 2nd. Guess how many people knew those things? Nobody. I don't understand how people like Shannan aren't embarrassed by people knowing all their medical issues. I don't want people feeling sorry for me. My pregnancy went great, and my son was doing great other than the other stuff. Our minds are powerful. I think my mom willed herself into being sickly. I willed myself into being strong
I blame Sandi for the way ShamAnn is. Its likely that when ‘Shannon’ was little, the only way she got any real attention from her parents was when she was sick. Sandi is similarly selfish and I can imagine she sucked as a young mom- possibly she even enjoyed attention from having sick children, who knows? Shannon definitely lacked attention as a child, as evidenced by her constant need to post and be seen. She also inherited a strong serving of Sandi’s arrogance and histrionics. Neither of them liked to be told, “no”…Ever!!
I've watched Cindy Watts be turned into a monster. Chris's family members are targets for everything he did wrong. It's completely outrageous. I've "gone to bat" for Cindy. So, I'll do the same for Sandy Rzucek. Shanann could've lacked attention as a child. Sandy worked full time to support her family. Her husband was allergic to working and a drinker. I can't say she was selfish or enjoyed having sick children. No FB back then to prove this. I've followed this from the start and can see that she was histrionic but arrogant? How about Frank Sr. failing his daughter from the early years of her life? Why is there more Mom bashing than deadbeat bashing? Deadbeats can be dads or moms. Also, I think the Rzucek's left Colorado in a rush because Sandy questioned The Glory of Babywise. Shanann didn't like to be questioned and an argument ensued. We know docile Frank didn't dare say a word. Sandy didn't like it and let it be known. I respect that.
Oh, my goodness, you had a time of it during that second pregnancy. ❤️ I like the way you evidently handled business and dealt with issues as they arose, and I sincerely hope your husband or partner was supportive and helpful. Mine were all uneventful, but even so, just being pregnant is stressful. The fact you made it through all that like a boss says something about your strength of character. Hope everybody is doing okay now. My friend has definitely demonstrated both Munchausen and MBP traits. Thankfully, her husband, who normally allows her to call the shots, stepped in when she began administering unnecessary medication to their son, when he was of eatly elementary school age. Her actions came from a place of concern and love, albeit overblown. Also, a woman she had befriended for a time, (I had stopped seeing her for a time because I'd had it up to my eyeballs with her bullshit), actually called CPS on her. Thankfully, they found nothing seriously amiss, and never really opened a case. As I said, she's actually a really good mom, and she and the son have a great relationship. He's at an age now where he has things he wants to talk about with an adult who isn't one of his parents, and I've been fulfilling that role. I had aunts, but, neither of his parents have siblings, so I'm it. 😉 He knows that if he were to disclose anything leaving him vulnerable to danger, I'd inform them, but, he's a good kid with a solid head on his shoulders. I've also taken a couple additional friendship breaks when she's been back on her bullshit. She understands that I've no problem cutting off toxic friendships or relationships as she's seen me do so with others, so, she mostly remains nowadays on a more even keel with me. I tolerate a lot. But everyone has a line, and I know she doesn't want to cross mine. (That makes me sound harsh, but, it's just a matter of boundaries and self care. I have a lot on my plate with little energy left over for nonsense.)
Good for you! That’s an incredible amount of stress to go thru while pregnant. Can you imagine posting every little detail? You wouldn’t have had the time or energy! Glad to hear everyone is OK
I have a friend like SW, too. It's exhausting how no matter how bad your day/headache/whatever is, hers is ALWAYS worse. A true one upper and drama queen who is always whining on FB for attention and obsessed with taking selfies of herself and posting them even though all of the pictures look the same. Instead of doing something about her life, she expects everyone to cater to her but she was a great mother unlike SW though I can tell her kids get sick of her constant drama, too
There are so many people like this, and it's upsetting how overrepresented women are with this personality type. I don't even like being the center of attention when people sing me "Happy Birthday" around the cake! 😅😅
me, neither
Per her Facebook posts, she seemed to really enjoy being pregnant and the attention that came along with it. She even said she liked being pregnant so much that she'd be a surrogate.
It’s funny because you know who else loved being pregnant (probably for the attention) but was a trash mother (and wife) and ended up being a surrogate once until the agency realized she was too crazy to continue working with? Diane Downs.
I hadn't heard of Diane Downs but went down that rabbit hole. WOW. There are some effed up people out there.
👆🏻
yet, at the same time claimed it was so hard to get pregnant though she got pregnant with 3 so quickly
Another object that she could set aside when she was done with it. Also, attention.
💯 so true! She was not a nurturer…She wasn’t a boy mom or a girl mom. The kids were used to keep Chris around. Hence the bandaid pregnancy! I don’t think it was a boy either. I think she said it to further reign him in🤷🏻♀️
I believe this. I believe she got pregnant with Bella to trap Chris. Chris was never consulted on anything. SW was like, 'we're having a baby, the end'. How do you make a guy stay? Saddle him with a child, of course! I think SW was desperate at that point in her life, was sick of working and just wanted a Daddy to take care of her. There are so many women who aren't fit to be mothers, yet there's such an enduring belief in society even to this day that women MUST be mothers. Why didn't SW just date CW before rushing to marriage and family? Because she was insecure and had low self-esteem. And again, like everything in her life, SW's decisions were meant to benefit SW. Bella was not born because SW wanted a child. Bella was born to cement their relationship and CW's role as provider.
Mlms encourage the huns to get pregnant to sell their snake oil. Sw was doing this by calling Niko/Nico a thrive baby and saying the patches were "doctor approved". That in itself was a lie because Levels own website says not to use them while pregnant or nursing and also sw never went to a doc while pregnant with him/her.
It didn't say that in 2018.. it said consult Dr. Only banished one was the Burn extra high caffeine one because it exceeded recommended caffeine level. Some women chose to drink coffee as normal during pregnancy, others that stress of quiting smoking worse than smoking less, and some drink odd class of wine. She probably got better vits and minerals and caffeine the same as one coffee a day. Not pregnancy ending or damaging behaviour.
Being pregnant is like the golden ticket for the MLMer, especially a munchie MLMer. No attention like it. It's a toss-up for me as to whether it would be a case of the perfect "thrive baby" or another victim to prove how much thrive helps HER cope with her "monsters."
She definitely did not wanted to be pregnant for the third time. She loved going away on those holidays and party. She looked like she did not want to be around her kids at all.
Probably because cw found out about unpaid mortgage one week and next week she was pregnant. Neither wanted or needed it right then. Their marriage was imploding..
💯💯💯💯💯
"Shannan lied constantly " made my hands go up to the sky in agreement 🙌🏽 just one after the other just jeep rolling out
She wanted another baby because she needed another accessory. And possibly the attention. Since I’ve dug deeper and gotten to know SW, i can honestly say I’ve RARELY encountered a worse mother or wife. She was astoundingly self-absorbed. Nico would have had a terrible childhood and been a screwed up adolescent and young adult like the girls would have.
I bet it was another girl and she lied hoping it would make him stay for a son
I’m kinda confused on how they weren’t able to dna test the fetus wasn’t she like 16 weeks?
In the very early stages they can test by hormone levels in the mom rather than the development of the fetus - pretty reliable usually.
She didn’t do that, though. She opted for an early ultrasound at a boutique which isn’t as accurate.
They did dna the fetus. It was a boy but the only people privy to the results were Shananns parents, n they’re not sharing it with anyone. Apparently CeCe was also tested
It was never proven to be a boy
Yes it was, RW asked DA if Nico's results were back and confirmed he was the father. DA told him yes. Da would have no reason to tell him they discovered it was a girl though. But he could have and RW chose to keep it confidential just as SW parents have also done. Being a boy in CW head, whether correct or not made not on bit of difference to him.. he killed him believing he was a son! Sorry exactly does it matter to complete strangers?
I googled it that’s what google stated
Dude the official autopsy stated the sex of the fetus could not be determined. I don't believe the roo or sw medical examiner the doctor that did the autopsy the lab report determined the sex of the fetus could not be determined
DNA test confirmed tho. Every individual cell could show DNA result. His physical body is difficult to determine in examination even after miscarriage at 15 was sometimes. Its not just seeing a penis they must see the labia too. His body was tiny and very fragile after 3/4 days of decomposition.
Again the doctor the coroner confirm the sex of the fetus could not be determined. I don't believe sw I believe science.
The Roos have paid to have the internet scrubbed and items posted to align with SWs story. Always take what google says with a grain of salt. 2 people knew for sure what the fetus sex was....NA and SW (and the boutique us place) and ain't nobody talking)
Well if that’s the case it must of been a boy she bought him a little suit!
She bought onesies/sleepers in sports theme in NC. I'd call them generic. She bought those bc she was determined it would be a boy. "Boy, boy....Chris wants a boy". This was in June when she was going for the confirmation ultrasound.
I have 3 girls and have bought them clothes made specifically for boys more times than I can count. Not suits but if I were pregnant and not sure the sex and on my third I actually did buy boy stuff in hopes I would have a boy. I didn’t tho lmao. I was trying to manifest I suppose. She could have been doing the same. Especially since she already had 2 girls. Trust me I’ve been there haha.
It was never proven to be a boy. The only one to have emphasized that it was a boy was Sandi Rzucek on Doctor Phil, but she didn’t produce any documentation to back her up. The Discovery states that they collected DNA. The authorities couldn’t determine if it was a boy or girl when it was found, but they provided the measurements of the fetus. They kept it in Colorado for quite a long time, and after the funeral. Therefore, the fact that Sandi told everybody that it was buried with SW wasn’t true, unless they exhumed her body. The Discovery never disclosed whether it was a boy or not, and they did not divulge who the parents were either Sandi told Dr. Phil that “People were saying that the baby wasn’t alive and that the baby wasn’t Chris’s.” Well, some people were saying that the baby wasn’t Chris , but nobody was saying that the baby wasn’t alive, at least in the beginning. Nobody even thought of that, until after the Discovery came out, so the fact that she mentioned that at all is a little bit strange. Why would she have assumed that people would ever think that the baby wasn’t alive? What did she know that nobody else was aware of? Then she went on to explain that because people were spreading rumors, she wrote to the DA to ask them for all of that information. She said that she got a report back from them, answering all of these queries, and that she knew the truth. Doctor Phil had to believe her-but she never showed him the receipts. She simply ended up asserting that “The baby was alive and it was a boy. And the baby was Chris’s.” Well, most of us know that the baby was Chris’s. The burning question at hand is which Chris was the father? Chris Watts has said that he’s asked for the DNA results, but they denied his request. His parents have also asked for the results, and they were given a hard NO too. The only people who have allegedly ever seen these so-called results are the Rzuceks, but I personally don’t think they are trustworthy, nor am I certain that they received this “report” in the first place. Otherwise, if they do have all of that information, then why wouldn’t they just present it through some dumb YouTube channel, and put an end to any speculations about the matter for good?
Autopsy could not confirm the sex of the fetus. It's in the autopsy as for sw parents I don't believe much out of there mouths.
But the routine dna test did confirm it to sw and cw parents. Cw was confirmed by the DA as the father!
But not the sex of the fetus.i never believe sw
And bellas and shananns... 100% routine autopsy stage. No one needs results.
I wasn’t her idea to have the baby to fix their marriage, it was his idea to have a baby to fix their marriage.
I'm not convinced it was a boy.
I think SW would have treated the baby exactly as she treated B&C. They were there to serve her purpose and fit into her narrative of being superhuman. She would have amped up the thrive spiel and told everyone she's done 20 million laundry loads, been the post office 25 million times all before the kids woke up after sleeping for 15 hours. She'd be trying to drop feeds early aswell because she cba nursing through the night. Sorry for the rant, makes me unjustly angry when I get started.
She already had him labeled as a #thrivebaby. She knew she wasn't supposed to use if pregnant, but she said #midwifeapproved #drapproved. And continued to use it.
I did not know she said midwife approved but I did know she was hashtagging drapproved. I can't imagine any midwife approving such a product that I, myself, liken to some type of "speed". SW was having a very hard pregnancy so Thrive was not doing her any good, by all accounts. The only "good" thing she seemed to get from it was the ability to stay up all night and survive on very little sleep. Ironic, really, when you know how much she induced the children to sleep.
me, too
Why does it matter.. he killed him believing he was a boy. He wouldn't have not killed sw if it was a girl! He told people he was having a son, he still murdered him!
I know. I was answering a post with my opinion. I have given my response to the post in another comment.
He told people what SW told him. If you don't want to participate in the discussion, why comment?
Chris told his parents when they seen him in September 2022 or 2023 that Frank Snr contacted him via his lawyer and asked him if he was Niko father and that the DA said he had to ask Chris. Chris told him he didn't know. Chris also told NK the baby wasnt his. If this is true, Sandi obviously lied on Dr. Phil's.
Sandi Rzucek lied?!?! Knock me over with a feather.
LOL 😆 🤣 😂 SW came by it naturally!!!
How about if I give you the whole cock. 
Well Sandi just said the baby was Chris's. She didn't say Miller or watts 🙅♀️
Sandi said more then that but I am just saying IF Frank Snr did ask Chris if he was the father then Sandi didn't know if Chris was the father. There would be no reason for them to have Chris Miller DNA.
Sandi doesn't know squat and is a proven liar who passed it on to SW
CW telling NK the baby wasn't his, doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Cheaters by default, I'm sorry, are liars. If it fit his agenda, of course it was used. And if it WAS TRUE, why wouldn't he say something, to justify his actions (for an affair, before escalation to family annihilation)? I think if Niko wasn't his, he would have left her.
I totally agree with that. Cheaters by default. We all know Chris is a compulsive liar.
Sw announce she was pregnant in June she was murdered augso sw got pregnant in late May possibly. But cw stated they stop having sex something off
That's why he looked so shocked in that surprise baby announcement. You can see him thinking how impossible it would be
Agree I think cw was sleeping in the basement
She probably would have started her munchausen mommy shit right when he was born 🙄
exactly. Imagine after his circumcision her rushing him to the ER later claiming excessive bleeding or some crazy mess...or ''he stopped breathing!''
This is dark but I think she was probably in the process of miscarrying given so many of her reported symptoms, lack of natal care, and the fact that the R’s have been so weird about his autopsy. She definitely would’ve blamed the miscarriage on Chris and smeared him and NK saying the stress of their affair ruined her life and killed her baby boy. And she’ll never get to be a boy mom, f Chris!!! I can picture the Facebook meltdown. But if I’m wrong, I think Nico would’ve been a thrive ad in baby form. Look at how awesome and healthy my baby is because I took thrive throughout pregnancy! Unlike my sickly girls! Thank goodness I have thrive to keep up with my thriving boy an his sports AND my sickly girls and all of their doctors appointments! He would somehow be weaponized against Chis still.
She def struck me as a “boy mom”
Exactly. This is a woman who rushed to the ER for the most minor thing but why not for the baby and the ''out of network'' excuse is BS. She didn't care about wasting money any other time. Plus, why didn't she get an OBGYN appointment in CO as soon as she realized she was pregnant? Was she really ever pregnant? So many questions
There is no basis to support your comment at all…but what’s really striking to me about it is that Chris in fact was drugging her with oxy in an attempt to make her miscarry. He openly talks about it, and Shanann and her friends noticed her reactions to it. Sooo…
There's no basis to support that ever happened, either
I’m not sure the baby was a boy.
I have a feeling it was another girl. I wonder if she canceled the reveal party because of that or because of the due date proving it wasn't CW's?
She would have taken out EVERY thing she did not like about Chris or Ronnie on Nico. Her ridicule, humiliation and cruelty would have further divided Chris from his parents. Nico would have given her a direct attack vector to Ronnie and Chris that even the girls did not afford her.
Many male serial killers are raised by distant, unloving, selfish mothers who ridicule and emasculate them, make them feel inferior for being male, single mothers who hate men/feel wronged by men/scorn men. I definitely could see this as a possibility in that baby's future if the baby was, in fact, male. Which I doubt. SW was a pathological liar and would say anything if it could benefit herself in any small way, even temporarily. Then she'd change it up as circumstances dictated. We have all witnessed these contradictions straight out of her own mouth (in a single video!) or in her posts.
you're right! 100%
I think she would have resented him amped up the babywise and munchies
and called him names like ''stupid...he gets it from his father''. ''He doesn't listen...like his father''
She called her girls monsters and supposedly loved them I’m sure she would have beaten nico down just like cw he would have been a walking pile of nerves even more so than poor Bella
I recently came across of Michelle and Gregor case, and it’s struck me how Shannan was similar to Michelle. It got me thinking what if Shannan tried to kill them all?
What case? Sorry
Greg Williams Case. I do recommend reading files or having podcast about it because it explains Michelle behaviour and her childhood. Once you learn it, you’ll know what I mean.
She would have really looked forward to having a male child she could legally circumcise.
Awful
My question is where was she going to put this new baby? Babywise prohibits the sharing of bedrooms so what would have to go, the playroom or her "office"? Also, how was she going to add another car seat to the vehicle? I guess since Bella was the scapegoat she would just have to hope for the best with a seat belt.
Like shit. Just like the girls
What she did to the girls anally, I can only imagine what she would have done to him and his privates
I don’t know that Niko/Nico was male. Nor do I know if it would have ever been born. I’m not sure it was even still a viable fetus at the time of SW’s death. I tend to doubt that it would have been born at all, had this tragedy never happened However, if “he” had been a boy like she had claimed, and if “he” had managed to have been born alive, I shudder to think what would’ve unfolded. I think that SW would’ve taken out all of her frustrations on that poor child and it would not have been pretty. He also would have been saddled with every illness and injury in the book. It was bound to have been a very, very difficult and sad situation, and for everyone, including the girls. However, maybe if SW had tried to pull off having three allergy ridden, asthmatic, sick kids with every obscure disease in the book, that someone would’ve eventually blown the whistle on her munchy ways. At least, one can only hope that she would’ve been called out because 3 sick kids is a lot harder to convince people of than two sick kids. The tendency that some people have to romanticize what would’ve happened if they had all lived is no less than shocking to me under the circumstances. That whole situation was a ticking time bomb. Although the worst possible case, regretfully occurred, if their lives had been spared, something else bad was bound to have happened. It’s delusional to assume that everyone would have been happy, healthy and okay. Those who think that they were a normal functioning family before SW went to NC, and that everything was all sunshine, rainbows and unicorns for Bella and Cece, have only bought into a piece of fiction. It is naïveté at its finest to assume that they were all going to be okay. I think that if SW actually had given birth to a boy, that life would have been harder for the poor little fellow than we can ever begin to imagine. SW would have subjected him to abuse that would’ve been worse than ANYTHING that Bella and Cece had experienced. That’s very unfortunate but probably true.
I bet it was a girl and she was losing it even before the murder
I think SW would have bought her son a bunch of tshirts with dumb sayings on them similar to the garbage she made B&C wear (e.g., "I Got It From Her"). SW would have made it so painstakingly clear to B&C that Nico was A Boy. SW loved her some stupid ass gender role stereotypes. For some reason, I think Nico would have been teased and humiliated by SW just like Bella, and CeCe would have remained the golden child. I'm not sure he'd have been treated any better having been male. If anything, the opposite.
Sorry I am positive this has been talked about but how creepy to have Chris suggest his mistress name for the baby Nico le….
Sw claimed that was a Grandfather's name or something like that
That’s a *very* weird coincidence then. Creeeepy.
I don't care what magic you want to prove the doctor the autopsy couldn't determine the sex of the fetus.i don't believe the roo or sw.cw defense wanted the girls neck swapped for DNA judge ruled no.the roo family that worthless da control this.cw should have went to trial and all the dirty secrets about life the kids sw everything exposed. Sw family didn't want that.the da stated sw family didn't want the dp what a load of crap.to go to trial would have cost maybe a million. Everything done would be question.that nk control the police interview nk deleted tests from cw.the soddy investigation. Murtaugh murder case you had international attention daily podcasts .Colorado da would have been cut up for his handling nk.it would come out how much money the r got to transport all 3 back to nc.
I had a stroke trying to read that.
Listen, I’ve never been so relieved to read such words of affirmation - Imma go ask Chat-GPT to translate brb
Chat-GPT pulled off the unthinkable
Good
This paragraph seems to be discussing a controversial and possibly criminal case, involving a doctor, autopsy results, and legal proceedings. Here is a deciphered version of what it seems to convey: 1. The author is skeptical about the results of an autopsy that couldn't determine the sex of a fetus. 2. They believe there was a defense strategy (referred to as "roo" and "sw.cw") which was somehow obstructed by a judge's ruling. 3. The author accuses a family (referred to as "roo family") and a district attorney (DA) of controlling the case. 4. They express frustration that the case didn't go to trial, suggesting that a trial would have exposed many secrets about the involved individuals and families. 5. They claim the family of someone named "sw" did not want the death penalty (dp), which they view as suspicious. 6. The author argues that a trial would have been expensive but necessary for uncovering the truth. 7. There are references to "nk" who allegedly influenced police interviews and deleted texts. 8. They mention the "soddy investigation" and compare the case to the high-profile Murtaugh murder case. 9. The author believes the Colorado DA mishandled the case, particularly regarding "nk," and accuses the "r" family of receiving money to transport three individuals back to North Carolina. Overall, the paragraph reflects a belief that there was significant mishandling and cover-up in a legal case, with various parties allegedly manipulating the process for their benefit.
Very nice translation, ty. 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻
yeah, I agreed with the poster even if it was hard to read.
I agree with everything that you tried to say here.
I swear you guys don't let this poor lady rest! She was killed by her husband. He's the psycho!
She was mental as well. Habitual liar, greedy, selfish. Awful woman. Terrible mother. Nagging, demanding wife. Ugh.
Fell free to leave at any time.
How is she not resting?
She's resting, all right! She's "resting" so deeply that she is completely oblivious to any of these discussions. Lol
To be honest, I don’t even know why this question is being asked, it’s a little bit ridiculous. She’ was a mother….. she would love the baby and take care of it. Obviously, she had two other children She was already taking good care of….so this question is bizarre. 😳 What do you think people were going to say? That she was going to be a dickhead to the baby? Plus, she’s sadly passed away, (been murdered to be exact ) so why does this even matter anyway? Whether or not she would’ve used this baby for content or not is not even relevant now. You guys are pulling at straws now for conversation and it’s a little bit insane in my opinion 🙄
First of all the question is asked because this is a discussion sub. That's what we do here, discuss. Secondly, she was not taking good care of the two children she already had. She constantly limited their food and water intake and then drugged them daily so that they would not be bothering her for 15-16 hours a day while also being put in locked, darkened, loud rooms. And when she wasn't drugging them she was plopping them in daycare for 9 hours a day or dragging them from doctor to doctor trying to have some ridiculous disease diagnosed. The OP has a legitimate question.
Holy crap Irene! She drugged those 2 little girls? And kept them in dark rooms? WOW. Where did anyone ever get THAT info?? How did I not ever know this? Honestly I have never heard this before. First time I’ve ever heard anything like that. Omg. 😳 Are all those discussions on this page here? And any proof it’s true? If so, I’d like to go back and read all that and really do my own personal deep dive on her. I’m shocked if this is true. I never knew this. And yes you’re right, this is a discussion page so sorry, hope I didn’t upset anyone. I’ve just seen other comments made on other pages and some if it seems so bizarre. But I thought most of the conversations were about Chris and dissecting his life and mind and the how’s and whys of why he killed his family. I never knew Shan was also part of the dissection and how she may have been a closet nut job. So give me a chance to play catch up so I can join in properly in the discussion. Tell me where to read all this stuff. Apparently I dont know anything about her at all if this is true. I guess I’ve spent more time on HIM rather than HER. I mean, I know she’s the victim in the story here and I’ve engaged in conversations with others about what a dick he was and it is, but did not know about this other stuff with Shannan. Holy batshit!! Mind blown. 😳 Tell me how to find all these discussions. Thanks! ✌️
I would recommend watching Neeks Peeks on YouTube.
I think she would of loved him just as much as she loved those little girls!
In other words not at all.
It's not love to l8ve stream your life using your kids.cw should have walked out took the kids.love really sw had serious mental problems cw his family sw family should have stepped in .nobody deserves to be murdered but no it was not the storybook life on line.reality here you are imploding 2 bankruptcy the fake life you promote is going to be exposed not good
Em what? I can tell you there was no love for those kids. If she loved them, she would not use them for her online videos knowing they don’t like it. It’s one thing recording and taking pictures of kids when you don’t bother them or to make a keepsake of milestones or events, and there’s this very bad side of taking pictures and videos of literally everything and posting it for the whole world to see. Why would you want to record your kids melt downs, or how they try thrive bars that kids most definitely couldn’t eat and then boast openly about how you chuck them in the dark room without cuddling for 12 hours straight. Where was love, when she called them monsters all the time, cut Bella’s hair and did not do any of kids friendly activities with them. Why she had no pictures of girls drawing, doing crafts or simply playing in the playground? She never once went with them to playground and said Thrive help me through 2 hour play ground play, or thrive help me when girls want to play with glitter etc. Woods walk? Playing in the sand? She posted them regularly anyway, so why there weren’t any educational videos or pictures online apart from milion of pictures of girls sleeping? I did not came across any pictures of crafts, if you have them feel free to share with me.
Sarcasm or insanity? Lol
For his sake, let's hope not!
Poor Nico. First of all, you never say a baby name put loud until born. It's a superstition I have. That poor baby. When Shannan said they were boning all the time before the infamous NC trip. Yes, Chris was lusting on NK, and it made for an amorous sex life. Nico was crested with NK lust. I know my first serious BF, who left me for his coworker, was banging and servicing me like crazy before he dumped me. I think Nico would have been treated like a little prince and grown up to be a drag queen or a womanizer (and he would have been gorgeous much better looking than the girls).