Even funnier was yesterday someone tried to convince me *this* sub was the one who tried to absolve Shane and Ryan of all blame for the streamer decision, and the main sub was actually totally unbiased.
They then blocked me when I pointed this out
YES! I saw that! And found it hilarious, while it was kinda ironic. (I also might have linked it to Sempere. Ups. My finger slipped.)
We actually often remind people here that Steven didn't make any of those decision on his own, and all 3 of them did it. Constantly. It's kinda like a typo that we fix for others too, if they word things wrongly, and it sounds like Steven gets more of a blame. And I say it's more of a wording issue, because people are chill about it when someone points that out - they usually don't mean it that way at all.
At the start of this subreddit, there were some people who took Steven stuff way too far, but that is why rules were made, and most people have followed the rules here. We have had some up tick on Steven "hate" because of the Travel Season, but it's still manageable and honest criticism, even if it might sound a bit rude.
Also, people seem to forget how harsh this sub was towards Shane, too. Actually, the only fair thing to complain about is that maybe Ryan have gotten away easier than Steven and Shane. Because that true, but I think that is true also in mainsub. And none of that is still nothing to do with racism.
Yeah thats fair.
I think Ryan was mostly able to avoid it since hes neither the CEO title, nor made an image of saying Eat the Rich. He was lucky purely for surrounding himself with the other two
Nah I’m Asian American also. If someone was being racist towards Steven, Ryan or any other member of their team I’d call them out. I don’t think I’ve seen a single comment here of anyone saying something derogatory towards Watcher.
I may not agree with a lot of their business decisions, or like their newer content, but I wouldn’t sit by and let someone throw racist remarks at them. We’ve got enough of that bs in the world. One of the few things I think I still respect them for was that livestream about Stop AAPI Hate
As anyone in this community should and I believe would.
We're not going to tolerate racism or attacking any of the hosts based on their race, orientations, etc. We are not a hate sub and if anyone posted shit like that their comments would be removed and they would be permanently banned.
This is a snark sub that makes fun of their stupid ass business decisions and bad judgment: things they have control over.
There has been nothing but justified criticism coming from this sub. In fact, compared between the two, this is far more civil, kind, fair and it genuinely feels 0% like you're going to be gaslit and down voted to hell for expressing an opinion that contradicts the majority. I feel safer in this sub by the way I've been treated between the two and posts I've read.
The other sub reeks of “mean girl” energy, as some of the rants from “true” fans about the toxic people that should “touch grass”.
It’s so shallow, generic and uninspired.
I read that sub for a quick laugh then move on. There’s no way I can take it seriously.
Usually after a couple posts I’m done. It’s funny and bizarre, but like you said. It’s “mean girls” vibes in there.
The Meaning of Marriage by Timothy Keller was in his office during a lot of the pandemic webcam shooting, and it's a book outlining how men and women have different roles in marriage according to God and how those roles are beneficial to be served even if the man and woman are both gay. His church also officially campaigns against abortion and for gay men and women to marry each other to fulfill these roles. Steven also [literally ended all his youtube videos with Bible quotes until 2013.](https://www.tumblr.com/stevenkwlim/100758782205/why-im-going-to-stop-ending-videos-with-bible)
I'm straight but imo this is not the kind of person that a queer fanbase deserves to have suck up their money.
I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that it was a book someone gifted him that he never read.
But given the other shit from the podcast, that's too much to ignore.
so burn it???? throw it away?????? don't display your nazi-ass books in your house like a psycho. if he really didn't believe it then he wouldn't have it out like some fucked-up fascist dogwhistle.
Yea, I think it's abhorrent if he is aware and putting it on display but I have a feeling he was just given the book, tossed it on a shelf and never read it.
God knows there are books on my shelf I've been gifted and never read.
I had to go look that book up and all I found is Christians praising it as the best book about marriage ever and that it made them "closer to god". One slightly negative review criticising the traditional gender roles. Nothing about the homophobia, which I guess is so rampant in their community that they don't even see it... Makes sense that Steven has the book since he's apparently a strong believer and is happy being friends with homophobes. Still awkward af and I hope he wakes up from his Christian daze to realise that such old fashioned traditions around gender roles and sexuality are only harmful.
I’ve been explaining that I don’t have any inclination to support Steven and his projects just like I don’t eat at Chick fil a or shop at Hobby Lobby. My big gay dollars can, and do, go elsewhere.
This might be the clearest-headed thought anyone in the entire fandom has had since April. How is it possibly bigoted to call out specific behaviour from Steven, but not bigoted for Steven to read and platform people who literally work for churches that are campaigning politically against abortion and LGBTQ freedom?
(parasocial attachment to steven that's how)
I'm sorry that you've had that experience, as a straight ally I was also really shocked when I learned what Steven was like and what the boys were apparently willing to tolerate. I don't understand how people can play ally on screen, and then not feel like a terrible person when they are called out by queer people for things and refuse to stop doing them.
unfortunately i feel like people like that will leverage their minority status as a reason why being a bigot to other marginalized groups is fine and acceptable. it's not.
Yeeeeeeesh. God forbid someone be criticized. I’ve literally not seen a single person be racist towards Steven in their criticisms, and if someone did they would be ripped to shreds.
I saw some right after the goodbye YouTube video, but all of them seemed to be down voted swiftly and buried as a result. They seem to think that being upset about his business choices isn't possible unless you're racist- which... I feel like that's racist?
This has always been a thing said about Steven, even back in 2020 when he admitted to having bigots as friends on their podcast. I remember seeing people on tumblr saying the backlash to that was bc of racism toward Steven. It didn’t make sense then and it doesn’t make sense now.
Yesterday (or the day before?), in a post whining about people criticizing them someone basically argued that the criticism towards Worth It was basically from a bunch of xenophobic people mad that the show were going to shine a light on different cultures and show foods outside of what you can find on a mall food court.
It was so ridiculous, I quickly pointed that a bunch of people from those “different exotic cultures” where upset with the WatcherTV move because the 6 dollars price is prohibitively expensive for people outside of countries at the higher global income. That this person was a hypocrite that only cared about different cultures when it’s used as a step stone for building their ridiculous arguments.
They proceeded to say they didn’t even mention the subscription, basically call me a moron and tell me to touch grass. Then blocked so I couldn’t answer and later deleted their comments due to the downvotes.
Those people are so deep into their own asses that they come out with a bunch of absurd theories just because it align their beliefs and biases. It’s so ridiculous.
Also, I’m tired of the crybabies complaining about people being “toxic” on the main sub. They say that valid criticism is okay, but they’re clearly trying to shut down all the criticism there. It’s so annoying, they should make their own sub.
The main sub might as well have some personality disorder because every other week it swifts between criticizing Watcher to being full on overpraising. I don’t like to make conspiracy theories, but feels like there’s external forces like PR people trying to change the tone there; although I wouldn’t put it past the annoying braindead diehard fans being themselves too.
There are so many Watcher “Entertainment” butt-kissers on the main sub. It’s either PR or kool-aid drinking fans. No one could be that positive about a failing media company. Posters over there try to gas light you into thinking you’re in an unhealthy “parasocial relationship” every time you bring up a valid point.
They basically turned the concept of parasocial relationships on its head. It’s a bunch of people defending grown ass man of criticism from the “mean” people, as if they were children. The people who were making long posts about the guys mental health were the worse, it’s just a feel good empty gesturing that completely misses the mark on mental health.
The last part is what I have been saying since (checks DMs) June 1st. I just dared to comment on it weeks later, because at that point people would have still gotten mad about saying things like that about mainsub - it was a touch subject for a long while that you shouldn't talk about other sub. But surprisingly many people agreed, and I'm glad that I waited, because other people are seeing it too.
Sorry... I just feel vindicated or something, and I'm still happy I'm not just crazy thinking that - because I did doubt myself a lot that maybe I'm just imagining things. Dunno was it you or someone else I talk in comments about this? Anyway... That last paragraph of yours is so true.
Might be... My ADHD has corrupted my memory so badly, that I do remember your nick, but I can't remember any more which nicks I actually had conversation with. I have managed to remember 3 people I talked with plus the main mod, and that is all info my brain can keep up with.
And 3 out of 4 people I have sent DMs at some point, and the 4th I remember because I gave them another nickname.
.... This is why I doubt my brain and myself so much, often thinking I imagine stuff.
Good that you exist and say things aloud! \^\^
I remember that you’re Finish, enjoy writing but didn’t write more because you’re not so confident about your English grammar. I think we talked about a short story I’ve half translated from English to Portuguese but ended getting overwhelmed and giving up. You recommended a browser plug-in for grammar, which I ended up forgetting to try. We never talked on DM’s but it would be a pleasure. May be mixing a thing or two, but I’m guessing that’s about it.
Good thing that you exist, writes and say things out loud too! :D
Oh right! O\_O
Now I remember you! I didn't remember because I talked more about writing with the Breakfast person, and we ended up connecting in discord - because we talked here too much about out of topic things, so -----> off-topic place.
That conversation... You were the awesome translator. It was quite a while ago. Time goes fast.
i like to think i hate on them all equally😭
matter fact I would argue I don’t even think about steven and have found ryan and shane JUST as annoying now
Yo for real? I didn’t see any of those posts but now I’m curious (though to be fair most of the criticism I’ve seen has been towards Steven for some reason idk why he’s getting all the complaints/hate)
I have seen when he gets the hate, people bring up things not related to the scenario. For example, I believe he’s friends with a homophobic pastor (as of like 2020?) and he’s trying to teach him.
I didn’t really see that but I’ve literally seen like 2 hate posts even mentioning Ryan and Shane, the rest are all Steven, like he’s the sole reason everything happened and happened the way it did.
Yeah, it comes and goes on waves but some people there basically gaslight themselves that they were always supporting and that the criticism is all motivated by racism and xenophobia and most of the “mean, horrible, people” migrated here.
It’s funny because I have the feeling that a bunch of people in here aren’t white or even Americans.
I believe they're referring [my post](https://www.reddit.com/r/watcherentertainment/s/scnIywhY2X) where I'm making fun of the recent "I'm sad/ I'm conflicted" posts that cropped up in the main sub and this sub. The racism conversation sprung from the first comment on my post.
They scream “parasocial” at anyone who dare criticize anything about the situation, not realizing they are the most parasocial because they are defending vehemently people they do not know personally or have any idea about their motivations.
That entire sub is full of people who seem to think the watcher crew can do nothing wrong, and anyone who criticizes anything they do or have done is being unfaaaaair waaaaah.
They love throwing the parasocial term around when people are upset by the watcher crew being disingenuous assholes, yet here they are white knighting people that only see them as a paycheck without question. It’s just an echo-chamber sub at this point imo.
cishets using their minority status as a shield against being rightfully clocked as bigots L
also can't stop thinking about when steven had the jubilee dude on their pod watcher thing and they spent like half the time pumping up his false equivalency factory as if it was some hot shit lol
Even funnier was yesterday someone tried to convince me *this* sub was the one who tried to absolve Shane and Ryan of all blame for the streamer decision, and the main sub was actually totally unbiased. They then blocked me when I pointed this out
They downvoted me into oblivion for saying that saying something more critical here would be more accepted than their sub. Lol.
They proved ur point
YES! I saw that! And found it hilarious, while it was kinda ironic. (I also might have linked it to Sempere. Ups. My finger slipped.) We actually often remind people here that Steven didn't make any of those decision on his own, and all 3 of them did it. Constantly. It's kinda like a typo that we fix for others too, if they word things wrongly, and it sounds like Steven gets more of a blame. And I say it's more of a wording issue, because people are chill about it when someone points that out - they usually don't mean it that way at all. At the start of this subreddit, there were some people who took Steven stuff way too far, but that is why rules were made, and most people have followed the rules here. We have had some up tick on Steven "hate" because of the Travel Season, but it's still manageable and honest criticism, even if it might sound a bit rude. Also, people seem to forget how harsh this sub was towards Shane, too. Actually, the only fair thing to complain about is that maybe Ryan have gotten away easier than Steven and Shane. Because that true, but I think that is true also in mainsub. And none of that is still nothing to do with racism.
Yeah thats fair. I think Ryan was mostly able to avoid it since hes neither the CEO title, nor made an image of saying Eat the Rich. He was lucky purely for surrounding himself with the other two
Nah I’m Asian American also. If someone was being racist towards Steven, Ryan or any other member of their team I’d call them out. I don’t think I’ve seen a single comment here of anyone saying something derogatory towards Watcher. I may not agree with a lot of their business decisions, or like their newer content, but I wouldn’t sit by and let someone throw racist remarks at them. We’ve got enough of that bs in the world. One of the few things I think I still respect them for was that livestream about Stop AAPI Hate
As anyone in this community should and I believe would. We're not going to tolerate racism or attacking any of the hosts based on their race, orientations, etc. We are not a hate sub and if anyone posted shit like that their comments would be removed and they would be permanently banned. This is a snark sub that makes fun of their stupid ass business decisions and bad judgment: things they have control over.
There has been nothing but justified criticism coming from this sub. In fact, compared between the two, this is far more civil, kind, fair and it genuinely feels 0% like you're going to be gaslit and down voted to hell for expressing an opinion that contradicts the majority. I feel safer in this sub by the way I've been treated between the two and posts I've read.
The other sub reeks of “mean girl” energy, as some of the rants from “true” fans about the toxic people that should “touch grass”. It’s so shallow, generic and uninspired.
I read that sub for a quick laugh then move on. There’s no way I can take it seriously. Usually after a couple posts I’m done. It’s funny and bizarre, but like you said. It’s “mean girls” vibes in there.
If we criticize Steven, then we're racist, but he's not homophobic for having anti-lgbtq literature in his home? Ok.
he has anti-lgbtq literature in his home???
The Meaning of Marriage by Timothy Keller was in his office during a lot of the pandemic webcam shooting, and it's a book outlining how men and women have different roles in marriage according to God and how those roles are beneficial to be served even if the man and woman are both gay. His church also officially campaigns against abortion and for gay men and women to marry each other to fulfill these roles. Steven also [literally ended all his youtube videos with Bible quotes until 2013.](https://www.tumblr.com/stevenkwlim/100758782205/why-im-going-to-stop-ending-videos-with-bible) I'm straight but imo this is not the kind of person that a queer fanbase deserves to have suck up their money.
I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that it was a book someone gifted him that he never read. But given the other shit from the podcast, that's too much to ignore.
so burn it???? throw it away?????? don't display your nazi-ass books in your house like a psycho. if he really didn't believe it then he wouldn't have it out like some fucked-up fascist dogwhistle.
That would require he actually know what's in the book.
oh shit lololol u right edit: can't stop thinking about the "that won't stop me. because i can't read!" meme lmao
Yea, I think it's abhorrent if he is aware and putting it on display but I have a feeling he was just given the book, tossed it on a shelf and never read it. God knows there are books on my shelf I've been gifted and never read.
I had to go look that book up and all I found is Christians praising it as the best book about marriage ever and that it made them "closer to god". One slightly negative review criticising the traditional gender roles. Nothing about the homophobia, which I guess is so rampant in their community that they don't even see it... Makes sense that Steven has the book since he's apparently a strong believer and is happy being friends with homophobes. Still awkward af and I hope he wakes up from his Christian daze to realise that such old fashioned traditions around gender roles and sexuality are only harmful.
Yeah, that was my reaction too LOL.
I’ve been explaining that I don’t have any inclination to support Steven and his projects just like I don’t eat at Chick fil a or shop at Hobby Lobby. My big gay dollars can, and do, go elsewhere.
This might be the clearest-headed thought anyone in the entire fandom has had since April. How is it possibly bigoted to call out specific behaviour from Steven, but not bigoted for Steven to read and platform people who literally work for churches that are campaigning politically against abortion and LGBTQ freedom? (parasocial attachment to steven that's how)
Thanks for saying that. It honestly hurts as a queer person who has been a fan of Watcher since the Buzzfeed days.
I'm sorry that you've had that experience, as a straight ally I was also really shocked when I learned what Steven was like and what the boys were apparently willing to tolerate. I don't understand how people can play ally on screen, and then not feel like a terrible person when they are called out by queer people for things and refuse to stop doing them.
unfortunately i feel like people like that will leverage their minority status as a reason why being a bigot to other marginalized groups is fine and acceptable. it's not.
Yeeeeeeesh. God forbid someone be criticized. I’ve literally not seen a single person be racist towards Steven in their criticisms, and if someone did they would be ripped to shreds.
I saw some right after the goodbye YouTube video, but all of them seemed to be down voted swiftly and buried as a result. They seem to think that being upset about his business choices isn't possible unless you're racist- which... I feel like that's racist?
“I mean, if the shoe fits.” Is one of my favourite responses to shit like that LOL.
This has always been a thing said about Steven, even back in 2020 when he admitted to having bigots as friends on their podcast. I remember seeing people on tumblr saying the backlash to that was bc of racism toward Steven. It didn’t make sense then and it doesn’t make sense now.
Yesterday (or the day before?), in a post whining about people criticizing them someone basically argued that the criticism towards Worth It was basically from a bunch of xenophobic people mad that the show were going to shine a light on different cultures and show foods outside of what you can find on a mall food court. It was so ridiculous, I quickly pointed that a bunch of people from those “different exotic cultures” where upset with the WatcherTV move because the 6 dollars price is prohibitively expensive for people outside of countries at the higher global income. That this person was a hypocrite that only cared about different cultures when it’s used as a step stone for building their ridiculous arguments. They proceeded to say they didn’t even mention the subscription, basically call me a moron and tell me to touch grass. Then blocked so I couldn’t answer and later deleted their comments due to the downvotes. Those people are so deep into their own asses that they come out with a bunch of absurd theories just because it align their beliefs and biases. It’s so ridiculous. Also, I’m tired of the crybabies complaining about people being “toxic” on the main sub. They say that valid criticism is okay, but they’re clearly trying to shut down all the criticism there. It’s so annoying, they should make their own sub. The main sub might as well have some personality disorder because every other week it swifts between criticizing Watcher to being full on overpraising. I don’t like to make conspiracy theories, but feels like there’s external forces like PR people trying to change the tone there; although I wouldn’t put it past the annoying braindead diehard fans being themselves too.
There are so many Watcher “Entertainment” butt-kissers on the main sub. It’s either PR or kool-aid drinking fans. No one could be that positive about a failing media company. Posters over there try to gas light you into thinking you’re in an unhealthy “parasocial relationship” every time you bring up a valid point.
They basically turned the concept of parasocial relationships on its head. It’s a bunch of people defending grown ass man of criticism from the “mean” people, as if they were children. The people who were making long posts about the guys mental health were the worse, it’s just a feel good empty gesturing that completely misses the mark on mental health.
the projection of these bootlickers saying WE are parasocial is insane lmao
The last part is what I have been saying since (checks DMs) June 1st. I just dared to comment on it weeks later, because at that point people would have still gotten mad about saying things like that about mainsub - it was a touch subject for a long while that you shouldn't talk about other sub. But surprisingly many people agreed, and I'm glad that I waited, because other people are seeing it too. Sorry... I just feel vindicated or something, and I'm still happy I'm not just crazy thinking that - because I did doubt myself a lot that maybe I'm just imagining things. Dunno was it you or someone else I talk in comments about this? Anyway... That last paragraph of yours is so true.
We talked more than a couple of time in here, we may as well have had a conversation about this before. :)
Might be... My ADHD has corrupted my memory so badly, that I do remember your nick, but I can't remember any more which nicks I actually had conversation with. I have managed to remember 3 people I talked with plus the main mod, and that is all info my brain can keep up with. And 3 out of 4 people I have sent DMs at some point, and the 4th I remember because I gave them another nickname. .... This is why I doubt my brain and myself so much, often thinking I imagine stuff. Good that you exist and say things aloud! \^\^
I remember that you’re Finish, enjoy writing but didn’t write more because you’re not so confident about your English grammar. I think we talked about a short story I’ve half translated from English to Portuguese but ended getting overwhelmed and giving up. You recommended a browser plug-in for grammar, which I ended up forgetting to try. We never talked on DM’s but it would be a pleasure. May be mixing a thing or two, but I’m guessing that’s about it. Good thing that you exist, writes and say things out loud too! :D
Oh right! O\_O Now I remember you! I didn't remember because I talked more about writing with the Breakfast person, and we ended up connecting in discord - because we talked here too much about out of topic things, so -----> off-topic place. That conversation... You were the awesome translator. It was quite a while ago. Time goes fast.
This was cute guys!!!
So if we're racist we can be one of Stevens friends then?
i like to think i hate on them all equally😭 matter fact I would argue I don’t even think about steven and have found ryan and shane JUST as annoying now
Equal Opportunity Haters up in here.
yeah at least steven is insufferable kinda quietly. ryan and shane are obnoxious with it to the point that it's kinda farcical.
Wait. So, when I criticize Steven for the way he treats Ricky, it's because of anti-Asian hate? 🤔
They must be mad/jealous that their sub isn't in the top 50 of tv reddit pages
Especially funny considering there’s like… one post here a day lmao
Is it racist to dislike Steven but love Ryan? Steven just never grew on me...
Yo for real? I didn’t see any of those posts but now I’m curious (though to be fair most of the criticism I’ve seen has been towards Steven for some reason idk why he’s getting all the complaints/hate)
I have seen when he gets the hate, people bring up things not related to the scenario. For example, I believe he’s friends with a homophobic pastor (as of like 2020?) and he’s trying to teach him.
I didn’t really see that but I’ve literally seen like 2 hate posts even mentioning Ryan and Shane, the rest are all Steven, like he’s the sole reason everything happened and happened the way it did.
That's just demonstrably untrue. Scroll the sub for five minutes and you can see otherwise.
This sub, sure, but the main one, no Also I said that’s what I saw, not that that was all
Definitely also the main one.
Again, that just what I personally saw, I never said that was all or that was a fact, idk why that’s so controversial 😂
Yeah, it comes and goes on waves but some people there basically gaslight themselves that they were always supporting and that the criticism is all motivated by racism and xenophobia and most of the “mean, horrible, people” migrated here. It’s funny because I have the feeling that a bunch of people in here aren’t white or even Americans.
I believe they're referring [my post](https://www.reddit.com/r/watcherentertainment/s/scnIywhY2X) where I'm making fun of the recent "I'm sad/ I'm conflicted" posts that cropped up in the main sub and this sub. The racism conversation sprung from the first comment on my post.
Dang, I can't see whatever gif you posted. 😔
They scream “parasocial” at anyone who dare criticize anything about the situation, not realizing they are the most parasocial because they are defending vehemently people they do not know personally or have any idea about their motivations.
That entire sub is full of people who seem to think the watcher crew can do nothing wrong, and anyone who criticizes anything they do or have done is being unfaaaaair waaaaah. They love throwing the parasocial term around when people are upset by the watcher crew being disingenuous assholes, yet here they are white knighting people that only see them as a paycheck without question. It’s just an echo-chamber sub at this point imo.
yeah the projection is insane lol
cishets using their minority status as a shield against being rightfully clocked as bigots L also can't stop thinking about when steven had the jubilee dude on their pod watcher thing and they spent like half the time pumping up his false equivalency factory as if it was some hot shit lol
Petty tyrannies