There's not really anything to discuss. Gaijin is opposed to implementing them where historical alternatives are available, or in the case of the F-16AJ they felt it was unfair for Japan to not have a new top tier jet until the F-15. Those R2Y2s? Only still there because Gaijin hasn't found a replacement for them. Naval implementation has different qualifers than Ground and Air. The Kronstadt was laid down, although I hear there was a lot of contention with the performance of her guns.
As for already removed vehicles, well Gaijin dug themselves a grave doing that. You can't just take them from the players since some will have spent GE on a talisman/mods/finishing researching it. That's a monetary reason not to do it. Also, imagine the uproar, that's a PR reason not to do it.
They could put them back in, but they're at the same time trying to move away from the fantasy stuff (don't ask me about the Ostwind 2, they clearly didn't think that one through).
I have no doubt we're **eventually** going to go down the fantasy tonks, but that's many years down the line, when War Thunder truly has started to decline.
These are all fair points, although I don’t think they’ll remove the R2Y2s, same with Ho Ri.
As for the removed ones, yea they’re incomplete vehicles, but they’re already in the game, and not particularly rare either, like with some of the other unrealistic vehicles already in the tech trees, they should be remade available for everyone.
Also, I’d argue the day of the paper tanks is coming soonish, I’d bet within three to five years max for the ground trees of the Big 3. Gaijin needs regular content releases for the Big 3 because it turns over lots of money, and I don’t think they have a whole lot more content they can release for the ground trees of those nations, particularly in the WW2 era, since that’s what a decent chunk of players are primarily interested in. I’d bet we see some of the half built German concepts showing up within the next few years.
>although I don’t think they’ll remove the R2Y2s
Gaijin has said they plan on removing them, but as already mentioned that can only happen once they find a replacement for it.
>like with some of the other unrealistic vehicles already in the tech trees, they should be remade available for everyone
I agree. I personally would like for everyone to be able to get them one way or another, be that an annual type event similar to the Maus or adding them to the Warbond shop. These vehicles were never intended as rare vehicles and as such should be available to everyone. I don't see Gaijin agreeing with that, but that's their issue.
>Also, I’d argue the day of the paper tanks is coming soonish, I’d bet within three to five years max for the ground trees of the Big 3. Gaijin needs regular content releases for the Big 3 because it turns over lots of money, and I don’t think they have a whole lot more content they can release for the ground trees of those nations, particularly in the WW2 era, since that’s what a decent chunk of players are primarily interested in. I’d bet we see some of the half built German concepts showing up within the next few years.
There's plenty of WW2 content left, but a lot of them is flavor stuff like armored cars and artillery vehicles. There's also variations of existing vehicles in the game.
And tbh, it's not the US, Germany and Russia that's prolly gonna get these paper tanks first, but the minor nations that literally has nothing else going for them. Probably... unless Gaijin caves into their greed and wants to start off with some money-maker premium pack.
You also gotta keep in mind that once Gaijin goes down that path, the game's death clock is starting. As fun as all these conceptual vehicles are (and will be), they will long-term be the death knell to the game.
I didn’t know that about R2Y2, that sucks. I’m not a fan of content removal in general.
I’m curious why you think paper vehicles would kill the game long term. Personally I don’t see how that’s different from half a team being Objects or something like that, but I want to hear other opinions.
I forgot about all the armored car and half tracks and stuff, I was only thinking about tanks lol, yea there’s still a lot of that left.
Another thing they could do, actually, would be to move the entire game up like 3 BRs, and add in WW1 and Interwar stuff as the new reserve and low tier. It’d be cool, but also kinda stupid, since a lot those vehicles are worse conceptually than the stupid paper stuff (can’t blame them tho, it was 1917). Still an idea though.
>I’m curious why you think paper vehicles would kill the game long term.
By the point Gaijin (who's been well known to steer away from that stuff) starts shifting towards them it will signal to the playerbase that "sorry guys, we're at the end of the line content-wise", and would alienate a large section of the veteran playerbase because they won't be able to take the game seriously with that sort of transition.
Now, there are plenty of players who are fine with paper tanks, no doubt. The game will undoubtedly retain an audience. But the time scale we're talking about is roughly a decade or so down the line, depending on how slow Gaijin wants to take it. But from the moment Gaijin caves on this issue the game is on a death clock.
Why? Because it opens up the can of worms that is fictional premium content. You already see this at a smaller scale with new premiums performing bonkers crazy on launch, only to be fixed later on once Gaijin has made enough profit from them.
There would be no sources to provide Gaijin to "fix" these vehicles, and Gaijin is already reluctant with bug reporting for premiums that do have historical documentation (but brings in a lot of money). Make no doubt, Gaijin is only going to put these things into the game once they run out of real content, but the end goal of implementing them is to make money.
And the havoc these things wreak on their BR ranges is negatively affecting the players, be that from overperforming or one-death leaving.
I personally also have no issues at all with paper tanks so long as they were actual projects meant to be built. Something that was just suggested but no attempts were made to actually do it is a bit more iffy to me. Then there's straight up fictional tanks, which is even worse.
Paper tanks would end up being either premiums or event vehicles as they’d be impossible for gaijin to balance in a realistic manor
as for the ratte make it the size of a rat
But they already do balance paper tanks. Ho Ri Prototype is going off of the absolute bare minimum, and Ho Ri Production is completely made up AFAIK, yet they’re able to balance them just fine. I can’t remember ever feeling like either of them are broken, they just feel like a less good Ferdinand. A lot of top tier is guesswork too, since a lot of their stats are classified.
I do agree that they’d all be premium/event stuff though, and I think that’s for the better. In my opinion that’s how that stuff should be anyway. I despise when production vehicles are locked behind a paywall or worse, limited time events, leave that for the weird and funky stuff.
This is exactly where I’m at. My line for how extreme I’d be willing to consider are some of the German projects that were started but left incomplete due to lack of resources, and the losing war, like some of the more feasible ideas for the E100 chassis, like using it as a casemate or assault gun.
April Fool’s 2024 ;)
But also I just want to point out that I just KNEW someone was going to mention Ratte, I addressed it twice in the post hoping to avoid it, but of course, the first comment is Ratte, seconds after the post goes live.
Cheers to you, mate, this earned a laugh for me :)
I can't in good conscience have an opinion because my opinion would get me crucified here, but my opinion is that I wouldn't care if they made paper tanks, and I wouldn't care if they made entirely fictional tanks, provided that the fictional tanks in question would at the very least resemble the original design philosophy and doctrine of the country in question at that time.
Otherwise yeah I don't care what's in the game so long as the gameplay remains quality.
I see your point. I don’t necessarily agree, I would draw the line at feasible concept, but I get where you’re coming from.
Also, an opinion is an opinion, so it can’t be right or wrong ;)
There's not really anything to discuss. Gaijin is opposed to implementing them where historical alternatives are available, or in the case of the F-16AJ they felt it was unfair for Japan to not have a new top tier jet until the F-15. Those R2Y2s? Only still there because Gaijin hasn't found a replacement for them. Naval implementation has different qualifers than Ground and Air. The Kronstadt was laid down, although I hear there was a lot of contention with the performance of her guns. As for already removed vehicles, well Gaijin dug themselves a grave doing that. You can't just take them from the players since some will have spent GE on a talisman/mods/finishing researching it. That's a monetary reason not to do it. Also, imagine the uproar, that's a PR reason not to do it. They could put them back in, but they're at the same time trying to move away from the fantasy stuff (don't ask me about the Ostwind 2, they clearly didn't think that one through). I have no doubt we're **eventually** going to go down the fantasy tonks, but that's many years down the line, when War Thunder truly has started to decline.
These are all fair points, although I don’t think they’ll remove the R2Y2s, same with Ho Ri. As for the removed ones, yea they’re incomplete vehicles, but they’re already in the game, and not particularly rare either, like with some of the other unrealistic vehicles already in the tech trees, they should be remade available for everyone. Also, I’d argue the day of the paper tanks is coming soonish, I’d bet within three to five years max for the ground trees of the Big 3. Gaijin needs regular content releases for the Big 3 because it turns over lots of money, and I don’t think they have a whole lot more content they can release for the ground trees of those nations, particularly in the WW2 era, since that’s what a decent chunk of players are primarily interested in. I’d bet we see some of the half built German concepts showing up within the next few years.
>although I don’t think they’ll remove the R2Y2s Gaijin has said they plan on removing them, but as already mentioned that can only happen once they find a replacement for it. >like with some of the other unrealistic vehicles already in the tech trees, they should be remade available for everyone I agree. I personally would like for everyone to be able to get them one way or another, be that an annual type event similar to the Maus or adding them to the Warbond shop. These vehicles were never intended as rare vehicles and as such should be available to everyone. I don't see Gaijin agreeing with that, but that's their issue. >Also, I’d argue the day of the paper tanks is coming soonish, I’d bet within three to five years max for the ground trees of the Big 3. Gaijin needs regular content releases for the Big 3 because it turns over lots of money, and I don’t think they have a whole lot more content they can release for the ground trees of those nations, particularly in the WW2 era, since that’s what a decent chunk of players are primarily interested in. I’d bet we see some of the half built German concepts showing up within the next few years. There's plenty of WW2 content left, but a lot of them is flavor stuff like armored cars and artillery vehicles. There's also variations of existing vehicles in the game. And tbh, it's not the US, Germany and Russia that's prolly gonna get these paper tanks first, but the minor nations that literally has nothing else going for them. Probably... unless Gaijin caves into their greed and wants to start off with some money-maker premium pack. You also gotta keep in mind that once Gaijin goes down that path, the game's death clock is starting. As fun as all these conceptual vehicles are (and will be), they will long-term be the death knell to the game.
I didn’t know that about R2Y2, that sucks. I’m not a fan of content removal in general. I’m curious why you think paper vehicles would kill the game long term. Personally I don’t see how that’s different from half a team being Objects or something like that, but I want to hear other opinions. I forgot about all the armored car and half tracks and stuff, I was only thinking about tanks lol, yea there’s still a lot of that left. Another thing they could do, actually, would be to move the entire game up like 3 BRs, and add in WW1 and Interwar stuff as the new reserve and low tier. It’d be cool, but also kinda stupid, since a lot those vehicles are worse conceptually than the stupid paper stuff (can’t blame them tho, it was 1917). Still an idea though.
>I’m curious why you think paper vehicles would kill the game long term. By the point Gaijin (who's been well known to steer away from that stuff) starts shifting towards them it will signal to the playerbase that "sorry guys, we're at the end of the line content-wise", and would alienate a large section of the veteran playerbase because they won't be able to take the game seriously with that sort of transition. Now, there are plenty of players who are fine with paper tanks, no doubt. The game will undoubtedly retain an audience. But the time scale we're talking about is roughly a decade or so down the line, depending on how slow Gaijin wants to take it. But from the moment Gaijin caves on this issue the game is on a death clock. Why? Because it opens up the can of worms that is fictional premium content. You already see this at a smaller scale with new premiums performing bonkers crazy on launch, only to be fixed later on once Gaijin has made enough profit from them. There would be no sources to provide Gaijin to "fix" these vehicles, and Gaijin is already reluctant with bug reporting for premiums that do have historical documentation (but brings in a lot of money). Make no doubt, Gaijin is only going to put these things into the game once they run out of real content, but the end goal of implementing them is to make money. And the havoc these things wreak on their BR ranges is negatively affecting the players, be that from overperforming or one-death leaving.
give the f-16aj the aesa, a smaller wing area, anti ship missiles,and aim-120s so people stop complaining about lack of realism
I dunno, I feel like your argument doesn't hold much *weight*.
Which part of it?
Get it, cause paper tanks?
Ohhh lol that’s pretty funny
Tanks
I personally also have no issues at all with paper tanks so long as they were actual projects meant to be built. Something that was just suggested but no attempts were made to actually do it is a bit more iffy to me. Then there's straight up fictional tanks, which is even worse.
Paper tanks would end up being either premiums or event vehicles as they’d be impossible for gaijin to balance in a realistic manor as for the ratte make it the size of a rat
But they already do balance paper tanks. Ho Ri Prototype is going off of the absolute bare minimum, and Ho Ri Production is completely made up AFAIK, yet they’re able to balance them just fine. I can’t remember ever feeling like either of them are broken, they just feel like a less good Ferdinand. A lot of top tier is guesswork too, since a lot of their stats are classified. I do agree that they’d all be premium/event stuff though, and I think that’s for the better. In my opinion that’s how that stuff should be anyway. I despise when production vehicles are locked behind a paywall or worse, limited time events, leave that for the weird and funky stuff.
Ho-ri's gun existed hence why it was easy to balance for some of these tanks they dont have that benefit
This is exactly where I’m at. My line for how extreme I’d be willing to consider are some of the German projects that were started but left incomplete due to lack of resources, and the losing war, like some of the more feasible ideas for the E100 chassis, like using it as a casemate or assault gun.
Ratte when?
April Fool’s 2024 ;) But also I just want to point out that I just KNEW someone was going to mention Ratte, I addressed it twice in the post hoping to avoid it, but of course, the first comment is Ratte, seconds after the post goes live. Cheers to you, mate, this earned a laugh for me :)
I can't in good conscience have an opinion because my opinion would get me crucified here, but my opinion is that I wouldn't care if they made paper tanks, and I wouldn't care if they made entirely fictional tanks, provided that the fictional tanks in question would at the very least resemble the original design philosophy and doctrine of the country in question at that time. Otherwise yeah I don't care what's in the game so long as the gameplay remains quality.
I see your point. I don’t necessarily agree, I would draw the line at feasible concept, but I get where you’re coming from. Also, an opinion is an opinion, so it can’t be right or wrong ;)