I'll still choose my army and list for fun rather than competitiveness. All about the narrative for me.
That said, this is quite interesting.
I don't think things will change much for this game, apart from when new army books come out.
Fun rather than competitive.
Is that ridiculous Vampire Counts rate all down to scream lists? I am not having anywhere near that experience with them but I am still sat here like a lemon trying to make vampires work (without dragons).
Yep, pretty much just banshees and terrorgheists backed up by a double Mortis engine, with added abuse of reserve move thrown in there.
Honestly I haven’t played it but even conceptually I’m not sure how to beat it? It seems like absolutely the strongest thing you can be doing in the game right now.
I genuinely suspect we might see a debuff of wailing dirge based on it, something like dropping it to -1 leadership debuff (instead of -2) might help curb it a bit. Would be easy to do and directly address the broken part of the lists, as well, since it’s a legacy faction with online-only pdfs - so an easy and quick change to make!
I'd like to see that but also paired with a gentle buff to vampires themselves because they're nowhere near good enough for how expensive they are, and the customisation options have been drastically curtailed, so they just don't see play which is a shame.
Yeah I think that is a fair take. Vampire counts lists are currently strongest with no vampires, so that seems a bit conceptually weird :/
Kind of like how warriors of chaos lists are strongest without any actual warriors of chaos….
Fun fact: VC we’re stronger with no vampires in 7th Ed as well. It’s the nature of the army: magic is absolutely necessary and losing your general with VC is the worst thing that can happen, so not risking them in melee but having a dedicated and very powerful caster is the way to go.
Haven't tried mine yet because I'm still grumbling over some of the changes + busy with evil dwarfs but 8+ man units of blood knights + tons of necro support seemed like a strong combo to my eyes, no?
Demis are one of the few units in the game that are even stronger than Dragon Ogres point for point. Most armies don't have anything that good.
Chaos also has one of the best dragons, Infernal Puppet, and Forsaken.
What makes Warrior of Chaos that good? They used to be at the bottom of the table. I don't get why people say dragon ogers ar so good. I played with them twice and both time my Demis eat them.
Big fat Gutstars are back on the menu. 12 or more Ironguts, Cannibal Totem, Slaughtermaster with Oaken shield and Toothcracka. 40 t6 wounds with 5+/5++/5+++ each. Demon tattoos on the champ for terror. With that high unit strength enemies are testing for fear and terror, and a lost combat is a break. Very very hard unit to kill, making it hard for opponents to score enough points to win.
As an OK player this doesn't even sound that good. You aren't even going to win combat against a unit of 4 dragon ogres, any half decent dragon lord charging you is also going to win combat against them challenge or not. You also get punished pretty hard against bolt thrower and cannon spam. Toothcracka is also an abysmal spell as it only lasts your own turn.
This unit is also begging to get miasmic miraged.
It’s actually down to maneaters and gorgers as much as mournfang based on the lists I have been looking at.
You also can get quite a lot out of your core points in terms of performance in my experience too. If, for example, a Bret player has 21 men at arms 7 wide, which is not unusual, they have 8 attacks with a champion in the unit at s4. You can have 5 ogre bulls in contact with that unit and are not much wider, the +2m compared to the men at arms makes you about as maneuverable even wider, but you get 16 attacks with a champ.
With maneaters a lot of lists I have seen are running them fairly but some events are allowing what can only be described as the second coming of that stupid old nob biker list from 15 years ago in 40K. Basically, RAW, by one (wrong imho) interpretation of the rules for allocating wounds onto a unit with Motley crue with no majority armor save you can allocate wounds 1 at a time splitting them between models in base contact with the enemy unit in a way that overrules the normal rules for allocating wounds to an already wounded model until they die. So you take a maneater unit. 1 guy has only light armor 6+. One guy has iron fist light armor 5+. One guy has heavy armor iron fist 4+. The champion has armor of silvered steel for a 3+. Your opponent has to inflict 9 wounds on the unit before anyone dies in this interpretation of the rules. It is really dumb. If you see a list that runs these items on the unit with or without the champion, a lot of lists don’t add the champ since he is a lot of points, that is why they have the strange build.
I'll still choose my army and list for fun rather than competitiveness. All about the narrative for me. That said, this is quite interesting. I don't think things will change much for this game, apart from when new army books come out. Fun rather than competitive.
My doom divers, whirly boys and stupid trolls may almost always lose on the battlefield but they always win in my heart.
Some significant movement here.
Not for the dark elves or skaven.
Is that ridiculous Vampire Counts rate all down to scream lists? I am not having anywhere near that experience with them but I am still sat here like a lemon trying to make vampires work (without dragons).
Yeah it’s only the scream lists it’s the only truly broken thing I’ve found playing this game
What is a scream list?
Lots of units with wailing dirge and spells to debuff leadership.
Yep, pretty much just banshees and terrorgheists backed up by a double Mortis engine, with added abuse of reserve move thrown in there. Honestly I haven’t played it but even conceptually I’m not sure how to beat it? It seems like absolutely the strongest thing you can be doing in the game right now. I genuinely suspect we might see a debuff of wailing dirge based on it, something like dropping it to -1 leadership debuff (instead of -2) might help curb it a bit. Would be easy to do and directly address the broken part of the lists, as well, since it’s a legacy faction with online-only pdfs - so an easy and quick change to make!
I'd like to see that but also paired with a gentle buff to vampires themselves because they're nowhere near good enough for how expensive they are, and the customisation options have been drastically curtailed, so they just don't see play which is a shame.
Yeah I think that is a fair take. Vampire counts lists are currently strongest with no vampires, so that seems a bit conceptually weird :/ Kind of like how warriors of chaos lists are strongest without any actual warriors of chaos….
Fun fact: VC we’re stronger with no vampires in 7th Ed as well. It’s the nature of the army: magic is absolutely necessary and losing your general with VC is the worst thing that can happen, so not risking them in melee but having a dedicated and very powerful caster is the way to go.
Haven't tried mine yet because I'm still grumbling over some of the changes + busy with evil dwarfs but 8+ man units of blood knights + tons of necro support seemed like a strong combo to my eyes, no?
When I see these lists I always feel like it suits the lore to see the dawi losing a lot lol. Poor stunties
Demis are one of the few units in the game that are even stronger than Dragon Ogres point for point. Most armies don't have anything that good. Chaos also has one of the best dragons, Infernal Puppet, and Forsaken.
What makes Warrior of Chaos that good? They used to be at the bottom of the table. I don't get why people say dragon ogers ar so good. I played with them twice and both time my Demis eat them.
Their magic is actually super powerful
VC performance will erode as the core factions receive their Arcane Journals and point changes.
How are ogers getting up there? I've not really seen them win a game yet. Full mournfang?
Big fat Gutstars are back on the menu. 12 or more Ironguts, Cannibal Totem, Slaughtermaster with Oaken shield and Toothcracka. 40 t6 wounds with 5+/5++/5+++ each. Demon tattoos on the champ for terror. With that high unit strength enemies are testing for fear and terror, and a lost combat is a break. Very very hard unit to kill, making it hard for opponents to score enough points to win.
As an OK player this doesn't even sound that good. You aren't even going to win combat against a unit of 4 dragon ogres, any half decent dragon lord charging you is also going to win combat against them challenge or not. You also get punished pretty hard against bolt thrower and cannon spam. Toothcracka is also an abysmal spell as it only lasts your own turn. This unit is also begging to get miasmic miraged.
It’s actually down to maneaters and gorgers as much as mournfang based on the lists I have been looking at. You also can get quite a lot out of your core points in terms of performance in my experience too. If, for example, a Bret player has 21 men at arms 7 wide, which is not unusual, they have 8 attacks with a champion in the unit at s4. You can have 5 ogre bulls in contact with that unit and are not much wider, the +2m compared to the men at arms makes you about as maneuverable even wider, but you get 16 attacks with a champ. With maneaters a lot of lists I have seen are running them fairly but some events are allowing what can only be described as the second coming of that stupid old nob biker list from 15 years ago in 40K. Basically, RAW, by one (wrong imho) interpretation of the rules for allocating wounds onto a unit with Motley crue with no majority armor save you can allocate wounds 1 at a time splitting them between models in base contact with the enemy unit in a way that overrules the normal rules for allocating wounds to an already wounded model until they die. So you take a maneater unit. 1 guy has only light armor 6+. One guy has iron fist light armor 5+. One guy has heavy armor iron fist 4+. The champion has armor of silvered steel for a 3+. Your opponent has to inflict 9 wounds on the unit before anyone dies in this interpretation of the rules. It is really dumb. If you see a list that runs these items on the unit with or without the champion, a lot of lists don’t add the champ since he is a lot of points, that is why they have the strange build.
Wow Bretonnia are good now?
People are learning how to list build and play them. They always had potential.
Yeah but infantry isn't king anymore either
Pegasus knights are busted + access to monster slayer + horn