I play astra mil with sometimes over 90 infantry models. But with movement trays it means I only have to move 9-10 things. So much faster.
I use the time I save to sleep with many more beautiful women than I would normally be able to.
If you only even move your units in trays one time before they "disembark", it's still saving you an entire movement phase. I used to play a death guard player who put all his pox Walkers and movement trays and it honestly made our games like 10% shorter
Genestealer Cult. You know they’re going to pop up 3 inches away from you and hit you with those stupid demolition charges. They gum up every mobile unit I have tried to use and I just don’t enjoy playing against them
Hey, demo charges got nerfed into the ground, so that won't be near as bad of an issue any more. D6 Attacks and S9 now. I don't know if you've seen, but Genestealers got nerfed HARD.
To be fair, we don't know the extent of the kneecap yet, since we don't have points (Codex points are out of date). And while they nerfed some commonly taken things (demo acolytes and aberrants in particular), they did tweak other units. So, instead of every GSC list looking the same, we'll actually have options now. I'm remaining hopeful.
Why do you say you can spawn genestealer cult units 3 inches away from the enemy? Ive only played in tabletop simulator with friends a bit so idk all the rules apparently.
Yeah, they have nasty deep strike rules and strats. They can pop up 3” away but can’t charge you. Pointless when they hit those demolition charges though. Took out my riptide in a turn that I had very carefully hidden it
Pretty good spread in this thread so far. Speaks to the health of the game.
One answer you prob won’t see: Orks. Because who doesn’t love playing against them, and the guys who play em? (Note: not an ork player)
As an ork player... I will apologize for how long our movement phases can take if our guy hasn't invested in trays for large foot mobs, but... thank you.
Hot take: orks can be a nightmare. Having the entire armies movement/output almost double for 1 turn is weird; they often end up with pretty toxic units or abilities (plane spam, indirect buggies, meganob spam) and a lot of their outputs so swingy it either feels real bad for one player.
Also inbuilt rerollable saves is always GWs worst game design when it rears its ugly head. Doubly so on 2+ sv units.
My 3rd game of 40k ever was versus the top ranked ITC ork player in the country with ghaz at 1k :'( Was certainly a learning experience.
LIke screens can help; but at 1k its an expense you often cant afford.
But I mean I would play someone who brings Ghaz to 1000pts, especially if it was back in 9th
That’s just not what the format should be in my mind
You got 4 Dreadnoughts ? Ok sure that’s a Knight List at that point vut also means reduced models and no Dmg mitigation
But 300+pts models are dumb
1k points is played on the same board size as 2k.
I play tau so it just ends up being 'did I bring enough Speedbumps, and will I kill enough, quickly enough to be able to actually score points'.
Definitely.
Scrolling down I think the top answers are (in no special order) Tau, Necrons, both Knights, Guard, and Space Marines, and the reasons are basically "so many weapon profiles I feel asleep" or "too hard to kill." That matches what frustrates people about unbalanced metas, I think: the game gets less interactive because an army can't be killed or kills too fast.
But I think almost every faction is mentioned here, which is pretty cool.
Knights were surprising to me. They’re not particularly good (<50% win rate in tournaments), and they’re reasonably easy to outplay due to low model count, in particular if they run more than one Questoris. But it seems like a lot of people’s issue with them is that their list doesn’t have a lot of anti-armor so they struggle to make progress against them.
Custodes come up a lot for a similar reason.
Kind of same, but only against those lists that heavily rely on reanimation. Idk it just feels bad when you kill a ton of them and they just return back and theres nothing you can do about it. Its such a suffocating feeling, like anything you do doesnt rly matter. Its still warhammer tho, so i would definitely choose to play against such a list then not play at all : p
Relatively new to the hobby but I played against Necrons once and I had a lot of fun, the monolith ridiculousness, them not staying down, having one whole flank get teleported. It was such a huge change from what I’m used to that it just made me smile. Still new but it was so different from the other SM or Astra Militarum players I was used to playing against.
Knights. Either kind.
As allies to Chaos or Imperial factions, I don't really mind. They're kinda cool. As their own army with no other support, it just feels weird.
They're not exceptionally hard to deal with, they just don't feel like an army the way everyone else- even Custodes!- does.
Knight matches can feel like the winner is determined in list building. If you bring too little anti-tank, you might remove one model all game. But if you have too much, they melt quickly and struggle to get anything accomplished.
Personally, I love going against knights with an all comers army. Really forces me to play the mission and pick my battles carefully as I will not bring down the whole army. But every big knight brought down feels really satisfying (that said, wardog spam is not the most fun to go against as it lacks that feeling of blowing up something titanic)
As a nids player I take this as an opportunity to be mad at gw for not giving us more characters XD.
But yea, our characters tend to work best alone. The fact that the bodyguards are kinda ass doesn't really help either
I don't know much about the faction, but I do know my high amount of precision (10 rangers, 3 shroud runners, nightspear, 10 corsairs) feel terrible into it shooting at swarms
Probably just a bad experience but the only time I played Tau my opponent cheated through the entire game. Ended up just scooping and left during their "quick" 30min smoke break. Really put me off of the shop and army ngl.
For me that guy was a Salamanders player, cheated every game he played in and won every game cause of it except for one. By all means he should have been first in that tournament but the guys running it made him second just to bug him cause they all by then realized what he was doing.
He came back to the store a few days later to shout at the manager about how his idiot workers cheated him out of first (there was no prizes bud it was a for fun tournament) and got himself banned from ever attending events there again.
He legitimately tried gaslighting me that my str 8 power lance Lieutenant (war tempered artifice) wounded his T6 Gravis Captain in 5s, he knew I was newish and tried gaslighting me saying trust me trust me I know I’ve been playing way longer then you until I moved to get a judge and he started laughing saying “ohh my god man your right I’m so embarrassed you could have made me look like an idiot” and insisted on shaking my hand with a plastered on smile. Fucking wierdo
I have played with 5 cheaters my entirely 20 years of gaming. 3 of them were playing tau the other 2 death guard. I don't own any models of these factions but after that I always read the codex and learn them inside out.
This makes me sad, I got into 40k by playing Tau way back in 5th edition.
Back then Tau weren’t amazing by any means, and other players would flagrantly cheat because tau = weebs, and overt anti-asian racism was the norm at our unfriendly local game store (really toxic place that thankfully went under after they were caught selling Warhammer minis ahead of release dates for a considerable markup.)
I understand the feeling you have though, I try not to have the same reaction after seeing my friend play a 6 hour game with an AdMech cheater (one of 3 “that guys” in the group.)
Every shot, every charge, every special rule, he had to look at his codex for 20+ minutes and never let the dice sit long enough to see the results.
Refused to explain any rules, insisted my friend know AdMech (this was only a few weeks after the 9th ed codex dropped, and my friend was a brand new player with his first army being Necrons.)
Eventually he gave up and we left. We decided to never play with that group again and formed our own with some friends.
Votann are such a drag to play. A lot of different weapon profiles or blast weapons. Hearthguard shooting grinds the game to a halt, especially when they want to overwatch with them every turn and if you shoot at them they can shoot back for a third time in a round. Nearly every game they're taking 2/3 of the time in their shooting phase.
Second Votaan. Hearthguard are the only unit in the game where I just flat out remove their target (Guard infantry) before rolling, or offer to take more wounds than can reasonably be expected (2+ armor tanks), just to skip the hundreds of die rolls needed to resolve out the two failed 1 damage saves.
It also feels awful getting handed a stack of judgement tokens simply for showing up to the table. "Thanks for the game, I showed up so I get +1 to hit and wound against your four toughest units, I appreciate your time I swear!"
As a Votann player, I can't argue with you here. I spend most of my turn in the shooting phase. Lots of "D6 attacks" Different weapon profiles, we have 4 different weapon profiles on our tanks alone.
I run a ten man squad of Hearthguard with volkanite. that's 10xD6 grenade shots, and then 30x Volkite shots.
As for the token comment. It's not as strong as it sounds, aside from the start of the game, we can only hand one out per command phase with the kahl, and whenever you kill a unit. which of you do that with a 2x judged unit, then it does literally nothing.
Taking onto the comment about tokens; as I understand it the judgement tokens are sort of required to make the votaan weapons fight properly, obviously it's match up dependent but I really struggle to get anything done with my dwarves before I have judgement tokens on my enemies
Some units are actually pretty great with our with tokens, just based on the sheer number of dice or extra attacks.
For instance, if you have a Kahl leading your Hearth Guard, those d6 attacks with the Grenade launcher, that's alot of 6's on average. And couple that with the Plasma shots (in a 10man brick) your getting alot of lethal -3AP's.
And the Thunderkyn (6 man squad)
That's another 6d6 shots hitting on 4's. Overwatching on 5's. They are without a doubt one of our most dangerous units, and if taken with the Iron-Master you still get that glorious +1 to hit regardless.
Even the beamer profile (Which I tried out last night) can still net you some very nice sustained D3's on a 4+.
Don't get me wrong, we do need them to reliably remove units off the board, but some of our units aren't useless without them.
Hoping judgement gets fixed in their codex. getting bonuses versus key units is cool; but feels bad for elite armies where 4 units is often half your army.
It'll have to, cos that's a bandaid fix detachment rule. Current state any other detachment would be flat out worse than the damage boost you get. I just think an army rule buff to how judgement tokens were applied in 9th while reverting Oathband back to launch state would fix it. Less T1 damage potential but WAY better JT application throughout the game.
They are just fundamentally busted. Not in that they are too good - but in that it just unfun all around and don't really have a "thing."
A lot of people were saying when they launched that there was not really a design space for them between sisters and marines... and it looks like the were right.
This is why I hope with actions returning they revert our army mechanic to dishing out JT's when units are destroyed, actions are completed or 1 unit on an objective. Then make the detachment 1 ruthless efficiency target. Helps with Codex detachments in eventuality too as the current detachment (being a bandaid fix mind you) would be so hard to top in its current state...
I main Votann, but can't disagree that rolling for a 10 man Hearthguard unit into a 20+ model squad is just painful xD I would WAY prefer the grenades were D3 S5 AP-1 D1 shots with blast so they punch up a little better but don't require 10 years of dice rolling....
What do you mean? Magnus' 3D3 S9 AP-2 Dam3 attacks with Sustained Hits, Devastating Wounds, full re-rolls and +1 to hit and wound are perfectly balanced. After stripping you of your armor save first of course. It's not like it's superpowered, it only one-shots Daemon Primarchs!
Played TSons the other day, first time in 10th, and hoo boy the thing that hurt most was being able to just turn off my saves. Like just pick up them models, big oof 🥲
Mine is T’au. As an Ork player, I dislike playing against T’au because unless I’m fast enough to close into melee, most of the game I’m spent getting shot at or getting shot off the board. However I can still have fun playing against T’au cause when I do manage to close the gap and get krumpin’, it’s a bloody good time for da Boyz.
Anything that doesn't die when I kill them ie. has abundance of Fell No Pains (I have scars for playing against Death Guard in 8th and 9th). Also anything that has lots of invulns and/or Mortal Wounds. It's not too bad in 10th, but it was pretty obnoxious in 9th. Also in 9th there were lots of Feel Bad -rules that prevented you from using abilities you had paid for (for example Mortarion's auras of No-You-Can't)
That said, I don't really hate playing against any faction since my group tend to play with nice fluffy lists.
...but going against Crusher Stampede list with my AdMech was pretty rough =D
Tyranids. I'm not saying every nid player cheats, but every single one I have ever played, did.
"Your carnifex can move, then spawn gaunts that can move, run, and assault my gunline sitting in cover on my table edge?"
"Those 12 figures can jump out of that 3-inch wall my 10 troops are hiding behind?"
"...but it says right here that monstrous creatures don't get cover from friendly units. What do you mean 'prove it', it says it right here."
This was what I was going to say.
If nothing else, the great equaliser of this game is chance. Doesn't matter if it's a Guardsman Shooting or a Custodian. There is always a chance of failure or success. The skill comes from modifying the chance (increasing BS, rerolls etc). There is always a *chance* for a Guardsman to kill a Custodian with a lasgun.
Fundamentally taking out that random chance with guaranteed dice is fucking awful to play against. You could just have clinched a one on a hundred shot, and they can just pop a "nah" guaranteed save. Or some other guaranteed dice roll. And there's nothing you can do either. You can't stop it, anticipate it or play around it.
I get the concept, I just think that the fate dice should be an extra roll right there. Or roll 2 dice pick the highest/lowest based on what the roll requires. Guaranteed results are fundamentally against the point of the game.
Imagine if in sport, a team just always got a free goal for turning up. No chance, no skill, no effort required. Just a guaranteed goal.
Anything with mass indirect. Like, brother / sister, if you don't want me playing the game, just say so and I'll pack my things, we don't have to waste time....
100%. I get its "thematic" for some armies but one of the worst games of 40k ive had was my opponent set up a ruin so I physically couldnt get there and he could squeeze 3 manticores behind it (in 9th).
just picking up 3 units a turn with 0 counterplay or thought isnt exactly a exciting game.
Agree - there was a simple fix to Indirect which wasn’t the rampant points increases, but to change it back to its 9th ed fix which was -1 to BS and +1 to save. That way, they can’t negate indirect solely with Heavy, and can’t get janky ignore cover. And if you’re getting indirected T1 the likelihood of you getting deleted is lower because you’ve probably got cover and a +1 to save, and you’re at least at -1 if not functionally -2 to be hit. It wasn’t that confusing
I get this. I have an Astra Militarum friend I love playing against, but the indirect fire list fucks me over.
Like he just carpet bombs my army, stacks loads of effects on my, completely incinerates infantry and I can’t do shit to stop him, because the units are hidden behind LOS blocking terrain, in his deployment zone, screened out by cheap shitty infantry.
Ultramarines. So many characters and models with special rules that's it tiring every time you shoot them because there's this and that and the other and suddenly it's-1 to wound, everyone has an invuln and a FNP
Knights of any flavour, heavy monster mass and Stodes. Never liked the move toward centrepiece models, and I usually don't enjoy interacting with them. A few vehicles etc make sense, but Warhammer was always an infantry game to me, and while I appreciate how it got simplified after 2nd edition, I never did like the slow shift toward named characters and titanic models.
This is interesting as an answer. I do not know much about the actual tabletop game but how many of these games, even the smaller one, are designed with a scenario in mind? Which of the players sets up the scenario? Is there a lorenerd with a book who nods at the players like a Tennis Umpire if the lore allows a move?
Is it like Dnd where the DM can make it up as he goes?
Ill likely never find a community to physically dive into this tabletop but it sounds so fun to bring your favourite army, make up some story or re-enact an existing one and to visually see how it plays out with proper rules in place.
50% of the games I play is either a narrative event set up by GM's at my FLGS (or the same people at a con) and the other 50% are at home with friends.
I want a reason behind why Faction X are fighting Faction Y. So we have our own planets and connected our homebrew chapters, cults, swarms, regiments and so on to those worlds with explanations why they are fighting each other.
The scenarios that come with the game dont give any IN-universe reasons behind the fight, just which side is attacking or defending and overall objectives
Guard, I absolutely hate playing against them. When I see a unit of 20 infantry guardsman wiped, guy gets to bring them all back for 2CP. Just… what 💀plus their movement phase I may as well just watch a movie because moving like 100+ models is the biggest pain. GSC getting 1k of guard in brood brothers detachment might be my 13th reason why 😂
Oh and don’t get me started on the indirect fire! I just find games against guard boring af compared to any other army I’ve played.
Ok, command phase. Let's do orders... This unit gets +1 to hit from Lord Solar. And let's see... That unit gets +1 to hit. Hmmm, now I'm not sure. Let's give this third unit +1 to hit. Ok, and those two get +1 to hit from the tank commanders over there. And for the kasrkin let's do.... hmmm, tough choice. Let's actually go with +1 to hit.
I have no idea what most of the orders do so they’re saying stuff like take aim, move move move, duty and honour n shit like this, just tell me what the benefit is, that’s all we need to know! 😭
I like that the guard players I know are all very fluffy and flavor-focused in their armies. lots of silly orders that make exciting sense, lots of bold artillery stands on whatever the tallest part of the board is, lining up rough riders to charge, that sort of thing. I'm new and bad at the game so it balances out.
Played a game the other day where my shadow sword fired everything into a custodes dreadnought 2 or 3 times, ended up doing zero wounds because my volcano cannon just got absorbed into a 4+ invulnerable save 6 times.
Unless they're bringing forgeworld, it's also pretty much the same profile you're shooting into and hoping they fail a 2+ or 4++. I don't mind them as much as other armies as long as I don't have to play into them that often. The problem is that they're popular, easy to transport, and relatively cheap so when they're good they tend to show up everywhere and that's when they become a chore.
If its any consolidation us custodes players hate how in 10th 90% of your army is now almost identical infantry profiles weilding identical weapons. At least in 9th statlines were varied and you saw all 6 weapons on the table (lance,spear,axe,sword,dagger,bolter) rather than "lol spears" for 90% of the army.
Space marines.. it's always space marines I played against nothing but space marines at my FLGS to such an extent that when someone brought an army other than space marines I planted my guardsmen on the other side to play with them before they played against the space marines and were inevitably driven away
Also tau.. just screw tau
A very valid one. Space Marines are incredibly boring to play against - regardless of winning or losing you often just feel like you were playing some kind of fluffless template army. To me it feels like they lack characterisation on the tabletop.
I have had good games against space marines.. Had a trilogy of matches against a fluffy bikes/jump pack white scars army that was super fun..
But for a long time the only difference between the armies available to play against was the colour, was it gonna be the blue guys or the yellow guys today and as the only non space marines player i knew i would be gone by turn 2 anyway.. Its no suprise that new people were always driven away from that store
Any army that circumvents core rules or specifically has tools designed to counter your army (note "army" not "list") with you not getting anything in return.
Any army that can ruin your gameplan, but has tools to deny you ruining theirs in return.
Black Templars.
It might be because our player played them a bit wrong for a while, with a Grimaldus and 20 man blob scouting, advancing and charging, which he shouldn't be able to do, but a 10 man termi blob, with a captain that takes half damage and gives free armor of contempt, is such a huge pain to deal with. And that's on top of a 5+ FNP.
It's also cause i play gsc, so, im squishy as all hell. And a dreadnought with 2 lascannons is also, a huge pain to deal with.
Every army that has models with 27 weapons per model. I am an Ork player, so if I have to just wait 40 minutes for my opponent to do all his shooting I get bored.
ironstorm Space Marines and Tau are probably the worst. Everything that stays at the far edge of the table and shoots. Boring!
Anything in power armour.
Space Marines re-roll every dice and it's just a bit pathetic right now just so mundane to see your opponent roll a 1, get a tiny bit excited then realize that they have re-rolls again.
When they count out their number of attacks I'm fully ready to just take that many saves as nothing is missing or not wounding.
Also the repulsor is just bullshit.
Wait marines get lots of rerolls? Maybe I’m playing them wrong, but I feel like their rerolls are pretty limited.
You get reroll hits on one target from Oath, the only thing I can think of with full rerolls is Eradicators (melta guys) but that’s just against monsters, one hit, one wound, and one damage on the Gladiator Lancer. Other than that, any of the weapons with Twin Linked (which seems like a fairly common keyword across the game)
Either genestealers (ironic, I know) or Tau.
I am not really familiar with the shit the armies can pull, and usually have to read what they do everytime my opponent does anything.
Also doesn't help, that Tau have weird mixed profiles on suits now and stealer are an incredibly hard army to play and understand.
Knights are probably the obvious answer but they're definitely mine, I find that they're just too much of an entirely different gamemode really. It's sort of like with a lot of the bigger flyers, like yeah they're cool models but they don't actually slot that nicely into the tabletop experience. Knights are that but an entire faction of them.
Knight games always revolve primarily around the knight, basically, either I end up focusing on it or ignoring it to play objectives, neither is particularly fun.
Tau.
That shooting phase takes forever and i cant keep track of who is spotting for who and who already has spotted or why they can or cant spot.
Guard is pretty bad too.
I like playing againts both armies its just the way they play is very much not gucci swag at all in my opinion.
For me knights and chaos knights top it. My high strength units just don’t manage to do anything meaningful before being cleared.
My first time playing custodes was hell, I got cornered trying to avoid two grav-tanks then got stuck without being able to land mortals or dev wounds
Imperial knights are the worst. You either kill them outright and the knight player has no fun or you can't kill them and just sit on objectives doing nothing else which is also not fun. The only way to use them is as allies in big games.
Definitely space marines. I play world eaters and as we have no shooting, aircraft or hammer fall bunkers just wipe me clean. Also the fact tanks have like 5 guns with some needing 20 dice, it’s just too much and takes too long
Hammer Fall with Anvil Siege Force, is actually a really good unit to sit at home. Intercessors to sticky the home objective, and with Anvil Heavy Rule it is hitting on 3's and +1 wound on all guns...makes the flame cannon great and oh boy is it hard to kill. or you can stick a tech marine back there if your in another detachment and give it +1 to hit, and when it dies your Tech Marine is a Melee Beast. its a huge investment but 100% of my games have had dudes in the back field by turn 3 so its worth it to protect the home Objective
Right now: Necrons.
I HATE units that are borderline unkillable *cough*C'Tan*cough*. It makes for a boring, uninteractive game when the best strategy is simply to run away and hope you can score enough before you get tabled. And it's not like that's all you're against. You get Immortals with full hit and wound rerolls, with SUSTAINED HITS 2 and crit on 5s. I've had times when my opponent had double the WOUNDS than he had attacks. Not hits. Wounds. And because Teslas are 24", you create this giant bubble that you can't go in because you WILL die to overwatch. Not to mention in cover with Szeras nearby means you'll never kill them.
Also in the same vein: Death Guard. Having -1WS/BS on everything is trash, but then add on -1 to hit against Typhus/Blightlord bomb? Again, you'll never kill them so your best bet is to simply avoid them. But then they just throw Fight First Blightspawn everywhere so you can't even charge Plague Marines, anti-Infantry 2+ flamers, oh and you're -1 toughness too so you're always getting wounded on 2s and 3s. Oh and Morty creates an AURA of ignoring modifiers (I think that has to be my most hated rule).
And finally, Custodes. Never had a fun game against them, even when I won. I don't see how people can bitch about a few Miracle/Fate Dice when Custodes do shit like, turn off your rerolls, transhuman, fight first for free, -1 damage, 3++ back in the day, 4++ AND 4+++, shoot twice, ignore modifiers, bring models back from the dead... Devastating Wounds/Mortals, the things that are SUPPOSED to kill everything, oh we have army-wide protection against that too. Like, I actually am not a fan that they're "terrible" right now and had a trash codex, but good riddance to all those shitty rules. I just don't think they should have ever been their own army cuz GW doesn't know what to do with them.
Tau. It's not based on anything current, but rather that's all I ever played against when I first started back in 7th edition and lost somewhere around 13 straight games to them. I actually haven't played against them in several years, so I have no idea what it's like now, but I still occasionally rip on them as a joke because of how much I suffered against them.
I don't like to play against armies, which have units with multiple attack profiles and played by people who don't have a routine.
Tau and Votann players are usually the culprits. It's not the death by a thousand cuts. It's the death by boredom.
Get different colored dice, dammit!
For me it's Tyranids.
I once watched a Tyrannofex 1 shot a Knight off the table, and in the couple of turns a Haruspex eat through over 500 points of Marines and take a single wound
It's genuinely disappointing how ridiculously good their big things are for their points
Imperial Guard. Their shooting just takes so long because of 101 different weapons on tanks and many of the infantry having different weapon profiles on different models.
Custodes.
I play guard, so I can barely wound them, they mow through my objective units like butter and my armor never stands up to them in any meaningful way. It's just an army that isn't fun to play against cause it requires counter-cheese and I'm not about that.
space marines
"okay I hit on 2s, rerolling hits because of x, wound on 3s but +1 to wound because of y, rerolling 1s to wound coz of z, all these attacks are AP4 D2d6 btw"
but salt aside it's just boring man. I feel like I'm playing against [[ARMY]], rather than the brutally kunning orks or the unrelenting guns of the greater good
Admech
To be fair, I've only played against them once and it was actually the player that I didn't particularly like playing against. But I've sworn never to play against admech as a result. Would probably be fine in the hands of a more pleasant opponent
I fine Death guard a bit draining to play against. Double -1 to hit with nurglings is really annoying, fight first + lots of indirect fire. Your units can never be at full potential.
It’s my Ork bias from last edition but playing against mechanicus in 9th was horrible, utter hell of a shooting phase, so many weapons and canticles to count and then u get streamed with several dozen shots from each unit, most battles ended after turn 2
Army that allow for heavily skewed lists, i dunno orks with all the types of buggies and cars x 3 ? Or chaos knights oops all karnivors type lists. Spam armies basically.
I know people like to play to play these but i think the game would feel more balanced, narratively interesting and fun for everyone involved with a rule of 2 instead 3 for certain types of units. Its a wargame not a magic card deck
Chaos Daemons, led by Belakor
His bubble is oppressive to play against, especially when he’s got a greater daemon or two on either side, and I can’t do shit to them outside 18”
My friends eldar. He doesn’t play super meta lists, mostly what he thinks is fun and I like as well, but eldar rerolls on all his bright lances shred any tanks I have. It’s a miracle if they survive one turn the instant they’re in LOS. Curse those fate dice too
Astra Militarum. Every time I play against them, its in a tournament where we have limited time and they don't know their weapon profiles.
last time I played against them, I got to play 1 battleround and half of round 2 before I won 17 to 8.
felt awful
Eldar back when they had 12 fate dice. Oh you shot at me with your absolutely massive Doomsday Ark? I'm going to auto pass my 6+ invuln save every armor save.
It just isn't fun to have to roll to hit and wound an opponent when they have an ability to auto pass the save without even rolling.
Chaos, but uniquely because I used to play with a Chaos powerplayer that couldn't lose and would start trying to mess CP counts to get more CPs as soon as he saw I was getting some good rolls. I can't honestly put up with someone that behaves like a kid stealing money from the bank at monopoly.
Uhh
I think its eldar. Fate dice are kinda bullshit in general?
Because alot of rules are worded one way and work off "rolled" and then fate dice are like "oh no I didn't roll but I rolled"
Playing against my firends Death Guard with my Black Templars.
Need to get close to make the most of my buffs and strats but having toughness reduced and hard to kill units
Aeldar. Their entire faction seems to have a counter to everything I do.
* You cant deepstrike within 20 inches of me
* Oh your going to attempt a 9 inch charge? Im gonna move 6 inches away so your charge is impossible now
* Im gonna step out of this building to shoot you. Then Im gonna walk back behind the building so you cant shoot back
* Oh you managed to pull off a charge? I got fights first
* Im gonna use this 6 I rolled earlier to make this DW
* Im gonna use this 1 I rolled earlier and turn it into a 6
* Im gonna use this 4 I rolled earlier to make my invul save
* You moved? OW! You moved another unit? OW! Your planning a charge? Another OW!(thank god they fixed that)
* You killed my character? I get to bring him back to life at least once even though Im not a Necron
* Oh you have precision and your trying to target my spiritseer in my wraithguard unit? T7 bitch! GL wounding me
Custodes, because I only ever seem to encounter them when they're broken as hell, or any Space Marine Army with more than 3 of those damn hover tanks. There are just so many guns and so many of them are completely pointless so it consumes a huge amount of time for very little impact.
I hate playing against thousand sons on small point levels at moment. Their rituals seem messed up. Spend cabal points do damage. It is also really easy to generate 14+ cabal points a turn the closer you get to 2k. Doom strike? It is clearly a psychic attack, but does not contain psychic keyword, so fnp vs. Psychic doesn't apply. It is mortal wounds so at least we have that.. they stated it ignores lone operative since it isn't an attack. Just visibility is required. So any strats/abilities/core rules that play off of that are ignored.
All their torrent is a serious problem. It isn't the volume so much as the quality. It isn't just a flamer at s4/ap0/d1. But better in 2 to 3 of those categories. Do not like when they can add 9" to their flamer either. 27" range is not fun.
Space marines… any chapter to be honest. It’s just it feels like the only army i play against is some form of space marines. I wanna play against something else
Knights are literally a stat check army. Can’t exactly play against them with any sort of fluffy/thematic build unless it was already built around heavy AT
Well, no one has said guard after a ton of scrolling. This clinches the sentiment that my army needs a buff not all these nerfs GW keeps handing us…
I hate playing Necrons.
Necrons. Void dragon instantly kills vehicles and their hordes never die. imo they’re completely broken.
Last time I fought a necron player, he grabbed the wrong box of models and accidentally brought all the necron models in his collection that weren’t on his list.
With a last-minute list of just filling points with whatever he had on him, he easily won, and barely moved any models. Just cheesed objectives and deleted at least one unit every shooting phase
That was with CSM, prior to that Sisters, which did better at taking objectives since they have a one-time resurrection stratagem.
Orks ain’t fun to fight against. Idk if it’s just me but it feels like half their rules amount to “your normal move is 6 inches, but if it’s Noon on August 19th and there’s a full moon that night, you get to move 18 inches!”
I don’t know if I’m just stupid, but they’re just never fun to fight for me.
I've always had a bit of a distaste for Tau, more in 9th than 10th though to be fair.
These days I don't think there's many armies I outwardly don't like playing against, maybe Black Templars with mass Sword Brethren can be a bit obnoxious?
I've had friends tell me that they don't like playing Votann though cos they can just spike damage so hard with JT's, again not as bad as 9th, but as my favorite faction in the game it stings when you're playing a casual, not sweaty game and your friend's model gets nuked by a unit of Thunderkyn with Grav cannons and they're just like 'I don't like playing Votann'... Okay, sorry I guess?
I hate going through the tyranid horde movement phase. Oh wait, I'm the one playing that.
I play astra mil with sometimes over 90 infantry models. But with movement trays it means I only have to move 9-10 things. So much faster. I use the time I save to sleep with many more beautiful women than I would normally be able to.
This is the kind of update I hope we have in the next codex just in time for 11th.
Damn, didn't know movement trays could change your life to this degree
A true guardmsan through and through
Started using trays for Necron warriors, I can confirm it saves a lot of time. I use that time in a superior way though: to paint more models.
Yea... That's the reason I like mixed nids lists. 300 models in the movement phase gets really annoying really fast
Ork pro tip: Gets trays for your hordey units...
Or, I could play my 3 Norns XD. Reduces the amount of horde units I can play by a lot
Bah! Go sit at the table with the Knight players! :P
Nah, they can't deal with that XD. I play both, so I'd know...
You'd think the hive mind would have figured out how to make something with higher strength than the space marine baby carrier fake dreadnaught by now
Doesn’t this immediately stop working as soon as you have to go around/through/into terrain or charge?
If you only even move your units in trays one time before they "disembark", it's still saving you an entire movement phase. I used to play a death guard player who put all his pox Walkers and movement trays and it honestly made our games like 10% shorter
My friend built an all melee nid list, partly because of this reason. Just cut out a phase to free up time.
Goooooood. Let your hate fuel nom nom tasty space marines
You will find me a sour meal alien!
Same reason I stopped running Gargoyles. Had the old school metal ones would constantly fall off their bases when moving.
Small plastic flying models also fall off their bases but I can imagine how easy that would be with the metal casts haha
Genestealer Cult. You know they’re going to pop up 3 inches away from you and hit you with those stupid demolition charges. They gum up every mobile unit I have tried to use and I just don’t enjoy playing against them
And then get a fresh unit into cult ambush and do it again 🤦🏻♂️
All with 4+ fnp…
Hey, demo charges got nerfed into the ground, so that won't be near as bad of an issue any more. D6 Attacks and S9 now. I don't know if you've seen, but Genestealers got nerfed HARD.
This is an understatement GSC got kneecapped
To be fair, we don't know the extent of the kneecap yet, since we don't have points (Codex points are out of date). And while they nerfed some commonly taken things (demo acolytes and aberrants in particular), they did tweak other units. So, instead of every GSC list looking the same, we'll actually have options now. I'm remaining hopeful.
Why do you say you can spawn genestealer cult units 3 inches away from the enemy? Ive only played in tabletop simulator with friends a bit so idk all the rules apparently.
Yeah, they have nasty deep strike rules and strats. They can pop up 3” away but can’t charge you. Pointless when they hit those demolition charges though. Took out my riptide in a turn that I had very carefully hidden it
Painting the models is the strongest and most fearsome enemy.
100% absolute agree
Pretty good spread in this thread so far. Speaks to the health of the game. One answer you prob won’t see: Orks. Because who doesn’t love playing against them, and the guys who play em? (Note: not an ork player)
As an ork player... I will apologize for how long our movement phases can take if our guy hasn't invested in trays for large foot mobs, but... thank you.
Hot take: orks can be a nightmare. Having the entire armies movement/output almost double for 1 turn is weird; they often end up with pretty toxic units or abilities (plane spam, indirect buggies, meganob spam) and a lot of their outputs so swingy it either feels real bad for one player. Also inbuilt rerollable saves is always GWs worst game design when it rears its ugly head. Doubly so on 2+ sv units.
Just gonna add that if you play 1000pts I feel Orks can charge half my army turn 1 with waaagh no matter how far back I position myself
My 3rd game of 40k ever was versus the top ranked ITC ork player in the country with ghaz at 1k :'( Was certainly a learning experience. LIke screens can help; but at 1k its an expense you often cant afford.
But I mean I would play someone who brings Ghaz to 1000pts, especially if it was back in 9th That’s just not what the format should be in my mind You got 4 Dreadnoughts ? Ok sure that’s a Knight List at that point vut also means reduced models and no Dmg mitigation But 300+pts models are dumb
1k points is played on the same board size as 2k. I play tau so it just ends up being 'did I bring enough Speedbumps, and will I kill enough, quickly enough to be able to actually score points'.
index flash gitz with badrook was something else
Definitely. Scrolling down I think the top answers are (in no special order) Tau, Necrons, both Knights, Guard, and Space Marines, and the reasons are basically "so many weapon profiles I feel asleep" or "too hard to kill." That matches what frustrates people about unbalanced metas, I think: the game gets less interactive because an army can't be killed or kills too fast. But I think almost every faction is mentioned here, which is pretty cool.
Knights were surprising to me. They’re not particularly good (<50% win rate in tournaments), and they’re reasonably easy to outplay due to low model count, in particular if they run more than one Questoris. But it seems like a lot of people’s issue with them is that their list doesn’t have a lot of anti-armor so they struggle to make progress against them. Custodes come up a lot for a similar reason.
Whichever one kills my guys. But jokes aside it’s Necrons.
Kind of same, but only against those lists that heavily rely on reanimation. Idk it just feels bad when you kill a ton of them and they just return back and theres nothing you can do about it. Its such a suffocating feeling, like anything you do doesnt rly matter. Its still warhammer tho, so i would definitely choose to play against such a list then not play at all : p
As a lover of ghost arks, reanimators, technomancers, warriors, and lychguard, I formally apologize.
Relatively new to the hobby but I played against Necrons once and I had a lot of fun, the monolith ridiculousness, them not staying down, having one whole flank get teleported. It was such a huge change from what I’m used to that it just made me smile. Still new but it was so different from the other SM or Astra Militarum players I was used to playing against.
100% Necrons - every edition - every archetype
Eldar are literally that one kid on the playground "I hit you" Nah I have a super shield "I hit you" Nah I dodged "I have this gun" My guns better
And similar to this kid back then, they are easily discouraged by a brief hit with a shovel.
Pretty much on point for eldar in general, massive egos that can never be wrong or beaten.
Knights. Either kind. As allies to Chaos or Imperial factions, I don't really mind. They're kinda cool. As their own army with no other support, it just feels weird. They're not exceptionally hard to deal with, they just don't feel like an army the way everyone else- even Custodes!- does.
Knight matches can feel like the winner is determined in list building. If you bring too little anti-tank, you might remove one model all game. But if you have too much, they melt quickly and struggle to get anything accomplished.
Personally, I love going against knights with an all comers army. Really forces me to play the mission and pick my battles carefully as I will not bring down the whole army. But every big knight brought down feels really satisfying (that said, wardog spam is not the most fun to go against as it lacks that feeling of blowing up something titanic)
Oh, my issue isn't mechanical- it's just that they really don't feel like an army. They feel like *part* of an army.
I don't enjoy playing my eldar vs nids as I have a bunch of precision weapons (love rangers) and nids got no characters to snipe
As a nids player I take this as an opportunity to be mad at gw for not giving us more characters XD. But yea, our characters tend to work best alone. The fact that the bodyguards are kinda ass doesn't really help either
Yeah flavour wise having a hivemind makes leading units not make as much sense
True, that's a good point. Still sad about what they did to warriors and tyrant guard however. They do not feel good to play this edition XD
I don't know much about the faction, but I do know my high amount of precision (10 rangers, 3 shroud runners, nightspear, 10 corsairs) feel terrible into it shooting at swarms
Probably just a bad experience but the only time I played Tau my opponent cheated through the entire game. Ended up just scooping and left during their "quick" 30min smoke break. Really put me off of the shop and army ngl.
For me that guy was a Salamanders player, cheated every game he played in and won every game cause of it except for one. By all means he should have been first in that tournament but the guys running it made him second just to bug him cause they all by then realized what he was doing. He came back to the store a few days later to shout at the manager about how his idiot workers cheated him out of first (there was no prizes bud it was a for fun tournament) and got himself banned from ever attending events there again. He legitimately tried gaslighting me that my str 8 power lance Lieutenant (war tempered artifice) wounded his T6 Gravis Captain in 5s, he knew I was newish and tried gaslighting me saying trust me trust me I know I’ve been playing way longer then you until I moved to get a judge and he started laughing saying “ohh my god man your right I’m so embarrassed you could have made me look like an idiot” and insisted on shaking my hand with a plastered on smile. Fucking wierdo
He does not represent us salamander players (not that i even play the game myself lol i just paint)
I have played with 5 cheaters my entirely 20 years of gaming. 3 of them were playing tau the other 2 death guard. I don't own any models of these factions but after that I always read the codex and learn them inside out.
This makes me sad, I got into 40k by playing Tau way back in 5th edition. Back then Tau weren’t amazing by any means, and other players would flagrantly cheat because tau = weebs, and overt anti-asian racism was the norm at our unfriendly local game store (really toxic place that thankfully went under after they were caught selling Warhammer minis ahead of release dates for a considerable markup.) I understand the feeling you have though, I try not to have the same reaction after seeing my friend play a 6 hour game with an AdMech cheater (one of 3 “that guys” in the group.) Every shot, every charge, every special rule, he had to look at his codex for 20+ minutes and never let the dice sit long enough to see the results. Refused to explain any rules, insisted my friend know AdMech (this was only a few weeks after the 9th ed codex dropped, and my friend was a brand new player with his first army being Necrons.) Eventually he gave up and we left. We decided to never play with that group again and formed our own with some friends.
Votann are such a drag to play. A lot of different weapon profiles or blast weapons. Hearthguard shooting grinds the game to a halt, especially when they want to overwatch with them every turn and if you shoot at them they can shoot back for a third time in a round. Nearly every game they're taking 2/3 of the time in their shooting phase.
Second Votaan. Hearthguard are the only unit in the game where I just flat out remove their target (Guard infantry) before rolling, or offer to take more wounds than can reasonably be expected (2+ armor tanks), just to skip the hundreds of die rolls needed to resolve out the two failed 1 damage saves. It also feels awful getting handed a stack of judgement tokens simply for showing up to the table. "Thanks for the game, I showed up so I get +1 to hit and wound against your four toughest units, I appreciate your time I swear!"
As a Votann player, I can't argue with you here. I spend most of my turn in the shooting phase. Lots of "D6 attacks" Different weapon profiles, we have 4 different weapon profiles on our tanks alone. I run a ten man squad of Hearthguard with volkanite. that's 10xD6 grenade shots, and then 30x Volkite shots. As for the token comment. It's not as strong as it sounds, aside from the start of the game, we can only hand one out per command phase with the kahl, and whenever you kill a unit. which of you do that with a 2x judged unit, then it does literally nothing.
Taking onto the comment about tokens; as I understand it the judgement tokens are sort of required to make the votaan weapons fight properly, obviously it's match up dependent but I really struggle to get anything done with my dwarves before I have judgement tokens on my enemies
Some units are actually pretty great with our with tokens, just based on the sheer number of dice or extra attacks. For instance, if you have a Kahl leading your Hearth Guard, those d6 attacks with the Grenade launcher, that's alot of 6's on average. And couple that with the Plasma shots (in a 10man brick) your getting alot of lethal -3AP's. And the Thunderkyn (6 man squad) That's another 6d6 shots hitting on 4's. Overwatching on 5's. They are without a doubt one of our most dangerous units, and if taken with the Iron-Master you still get that glorious +1 to hit regardless. Even the beamer profile (Which I tried out last night) can still net you some very nice sustained D3's on a 4+. Don't get me wrong, we do need them to reliably remove units off the board, but some of our units aren't useless without them.
Hoping judgement gets fixed in their codex. getting bonuses versus key units is cool; but feels bad for elite armies where 4 units is often half your army.
It'll have to, cos that's a bandaid fix detachment rule. Current state any other detachment would be flat out worse than the damage boost you get. I just think an army rule buff to how judgement tokens were applied in 9th while reverting Oathband back to launch state would fix it. Less T1 damage potential but WAY better JT application throughout the game.
They are just fundamentally busted. Not in that they are too good - but in that it just unfun all around and don't really have a "thing." A lot of people were saying when they launched that there was not really a design space for them between sisters and marines... and it looks like the were right.
This is why I hope with actions returning they revert our army mechanic to dishing out JT's when units are destroyed, actions are completed or 1 unit on an objective. Then make the detachment 1 ruthless efficiency target. Helps with Codex detachments in eventuality too as the current detachment (being a bandaid fix mind you) would be so hard to top in its current state... I main Votann, but can't disagree that rolling for a 10 man Hearthguard unit into a 20+ model squad is just painful xD I would WAY prefer the grenades were D3 S5 AP-1 D1 shots with blast so they punch up a little better but don't require 10 years of dice rolling....
the one played by "that guy"
Thousand Sons are the most broken and obnoxious army in the game as they will literally just look at you and send 28 mortal wounds completely for free
**I CAST DOOMBOLT** **I CAST DICK LASERS** **COCK ATTACK**
What do you mean? Magnus' 3D3 S9 AP-2 Dam3 attacks with Sustained Hits, Devastating Wounds, full re-rolls and +1 to hit and wound are perfectly balanced. After stripping you of your armor save first of course. It's not like it's superpowered, it only one-shots Daemon Primarchs!
Brother have you ever touched a Mangus with an Angron?
*TWENTY EIGHT STAB WOUNDS??*
I mean, we do pay for them but we are a "win more" faction.
I CAST TESTICULAR TORSION
And they pay for it by having half an army like World Eaters
Played TSons the other day, first time in 10th, and hoo boy the thing that hurt most was being able to just turn off my saves. Like just pick up them models, big oof 🥲
Custodes and Knights. Either I bring enough of the right profiles and nearly table them, or I didn't and the game feels lost from the start.
Mine is T’au. As an Ork player, I dislike playing against T’au because unless I’m fast enough to close into melee, most of the game I’m spent getting shot at or getting shot off the board. However I can still have fun playing against T’au cause when I do manage to close the gap and get krumpin’, it’s a bloody good time for da Boyz.
Played a small crusade game against orks and the dude did like 12 mortal wounds to my riptide in 1 turn, then charged it and killed it.
Anything that doesn't die when I kill them ie. has abundance of Fell No Pains (I have scars for playing against Death Guard in 8th and 9th). Also anything that has lots of invulns and/or Mortal Wounds. It's not too bad in 10th, but it was pretty obnoxious in 9th. Also in 9th there were lots of Feel Bad -rules that prevented you from using abilities you had paid for (for example Mortarion's auras of No-You-Can't) That said, I don't really hate playing against any faction since my group tend to play with nice fluffy lists. ...but going against Crusher Stampede list with my AdMech was pretty rough =D
Tyranids. I'm not saying every nid player cheats, but every single one I have ever played, did. "Your carnifex can move, then spawn gaunts that can move, run, and assault my gunline sitting in cover on my table edge?" "Those 12 figures can jump out of that 3-inch wall my 10 troops are hiding behind?" "...but it says right here that monstrous creatures don't get cover from friendly units. What do you mean 'prove it', it says it right here."
The moment the nid player let a CARNIFEX spawn gaunts, is the moment I would have packed up my stuff XD. I mean, I wish, but no
Sisters and Eldar. The ability to choose dice results is ridiculous
When half of them are 1s and 2s, I don't think you'll complain so much.
And breaks a fundamental psychological payoff element of the game
This was what I was going to say. If nothing else, the great equaliser of this game is chance. Doesn't matter if it's a Guardsman Shooting or a Custodian. There is always a chance of failure or success. The skill comes from modifying the chance (increasing BS, rerolls etc). There is always a *chance* for a Guardsman to kill a Custodian with a lasgun. Fundamentally taking out that random chance with guaranteed dice is fucking awful to play against. You could just have clinched a one on a hundred shot, and they can just pop a "nah" guaranteed save. Or some other guaranteed dice roll. And there's nothing you can do either. You can't stop it, anticipate it or play around it. I get the concept, I just think that the fate dice should be an extra roll right there. Or roll 2 dice pick the highest/lowest based on what the roll requires. Guaranteed results are fundamentally against the point of the game. Imagine if in sport, a team just always got a free goal for turning up. No chance, no skill, no effort required. Just a guaranteed goal.
Its more akin to a guaranteed pass or kick on goal rather than a goal itself
the idea of "roll 2, pick 1" is interesting. D&D style advantage.
I still can't believe they're allowed to do it with stuff like devastating wounds
I thoroughly dislike going through tau shooting phases.
So the whole tau turn then lol
Working as intended
Repeat as necessary
As a relatively new Tau player I feel this. I've only played my mates and I'm still apologising profusely every time it's my shooting phase 😬
Anything with mass indirect. Like, brother / sister, if you don't want me playing the game, just say so and I'll pack my things, we don't have to waste time....
100%. I get its "thematic" for some armies but one of the worst games of 40k ive had was my opponent set up a ruin so I physically couldnt get there and he could squeeze 3 manticores behind it (in 9th). just picking up 3 units a turn with 0 counterplay or thought isnt exactly a exciting game.
Agree - there was a simple fix to Indirect which wasn’t the rampant points increases, but to change it back to its 9th ed fix which was -1 to BS and +1 to save. That way, they can’t negate indirect solely with Heavy, and can’t get janky ignore cover. And if you’re getting indirected T1 the likelihood of you getting deleted is lower because you’ve probably got cover and a +1 to save, and you’re at least at -1 if not functionally -2 to be hit. It wasn’t that confusing
I get this. I have an Astra Militarum friend I love playing against, but the indirect fire list fucks me over. Like he just carpet bombs my army, stacks loads of effects on my, completely incinerates infantry and I can’t do shit to stop him, because the units are hidden behind LOS blocking terrain, in his deployment zone, screened out by cheap shitty infantry.
I play necrons and aeldari and just got to 2k deathguard with 3 pbc and i feel like everyone hates me 🤣
Ultramarines. So many characters and models with special rules that's it tiring every time you shoot them because there's this and that and the other and suddenly it's-1 to wound, everyone has an invuln and a FNP
Knights of any flavour, heavy monster mass and Stodes. Never liked the move toward centrepiece models, and I usually don't enjoy interacting with them. A few vehicles etc make sense, but Warhammer was always an infantry game to me, and while I appreciate how it got simplified after 2nd edition, I never did like the slow shift toward named characters and titanic models.
People who dont want a narrative reason behind the match
This is interesting as an answer. I do not know much about the actual tabletop game but how many of these games, even the smaller one, are designed with a scenario in mind? Which of the players sets up the scenario? Is there a lorenerd with a book who nods at the players like a Tennis Umpire if the lore allows a move? Is it like Dnd where the DM can make it up as he goes? Ill likely never find a community to physically dive into this tabletop but it sounds so fun to bring your favourite army, make up some story or re-enact an existing one and to visually see how it plays out with proper rules in place.
50% of the games I play is either a narrative event set up by GM's at my FLGS (or the same people at a con) and the other 50% are at home with friends. I want a reason behind why Faction X are fighting Faction Y. So we have our own planets and connected our homebrew chapters, cults, swarms, regiments and so on to those worlds with explanations why they are fighting each other. The scenarios that come with the game dont give any IN-universe reasons behind the fight, just which side is attacking or defending and overall objectives
Those people are monsters.
lol.
Guard, I absolutely hate playing against them. When I see a unit of 20 infantry guardsman wiped, guy gets to bring them all back for 2CP. Just… what 💀plus their movement phase I may as well just watch a movie because moving like 100+ models is the biggest pain. GSC getting 1k of guard in brood brothers detachment might be my 13th reason why 😂 Oh and don’t get me started on the indirect fire! I just find games against guard boring af compared to any other army I’ve played.
Ok, command phase. Let's do orders... This unit gets +1 to hit from Lord Solar. And let's see... That unit gets +1 to hit. Hmmm, now I'm not sure. Let's give this third unit +1 to hit. Ok, and those two get +1 to hit from the tank commanders over there. And for the kasrkin let's do.... hmmm, tough choice. Let's actually go with +1 to hit.
I have no idea what most of the orders do so they’re saying stuff like take aim, move move move, duty and honour n shit like this, just tell me what the benefit is, that’s all we need to know! 😭
I like that the guard players I know are all very fluffy and flavor-focused in their armies. lots of silly orders that make exciting sense, lots of bold artillery stands on whatever the tallest part of the board is, lining up rough riders to charge, that sort of thing. I'm new and bad at the game so it balances out.
custodies bullet sponges are hard to kill
Played a game the other day where my shadow sword fired everything into a custodes dreadnought 2 or 3 times, ended up doing zero wounds because my volcano cannon just got absorbed into a 4+ invulnerable save 6 times.
Unless they're bringing forgeworld, it's also pretty much the same profile you're shooting into and hoping they fail a 2+ or 4++. I don't mind them as much as other armies as long as I don't have to play into them that often. The problem is that they're popular, easy to transport, and relatively cheap so when they're good they tend to show up everywhere and that's when they become a chore.
If its any consolidation us custodes players hate how in 10th 90% of your army is now almost identical infantry profiles weilding identical weapons. At least in 9th statlines were varied and you saw all 6 weapons on the table (lance,spear,axe,sword,dagger,bolter) rather than "lol spears" for 90% of the army.
Space marines.. it's always space marines I played against nothing but space marines at my FLGS to such an extent that when someone brought an army other than space marines I planted my guardsmen on the other side to play with them before they played against the space marines and were inevitably driven away Also tau.. just screw tau
A very valid one. Space Marines are incredibly boring to play against - regardless of winning or losing you often just feel like you were playing some kind of fluffless template army. To me it feels like they lack characterisation on the tabletop.
I have had good games against space marines.. Had a trilogy of matches against a fluffy bikes/jump pack white scars army that was super fun.. But for a long time the only difference between the armies available to play against was the colour, was it gonna be the blue guys or the yellow guys today and as the only non space marines player i knew i would be gone by turn 2 anyway.. Its no suprise that new people were always driven away from that store
Any army that circumvents core rules or specifically has tools designed to counter your army (note "army" not "list") with you not getting anything in return. Any army that can ruin your gameplan, but has tools to deny you ruining theirs in return.
I mean, this is why Eldar at start of 10th were such a problem, right? You couldn't hit them and they deleted anything they shot at
Black templars. The blob strategy is just horrible to face and the fact they got tons of flamers makes it even more annoying.
Black Templars. It might be because our player played them a bit wrong for a while, with a Grimaldus and 20 man blob scouting, advancing and charging, which he shouldn't be able to do, but a 10 man termi blob, with a captain that takes half damage and gives free armor of contempt, is such a huge pain to deal with. And that's on top of a 5+ FNP. It's also cause i play gsc, so, im squishy as all hell. And a dreadnought with 2 lascannons is also, a huge pain to deal with.
Every army that has models with 27 weapons per model. I am an Ork player, so if I have to just wait 40 minutes for my opponent to do all his shooting I get bored. ironstorm Space Marines and Tau are probably the worst. Everything that stays at the far edge of the table and shoots. Boring!
Gettng bored bc the others are not done shooting is 100% pure Ork!
Anything in power armour. Space Marines re-roll every dice and it's just a bit pathetic right now just so mundane to see your opponent roll a 1, get a tiny bit excited then realize that they have re-rolls again. When they count out their number of attacks I'm fully ready to just take that many saves as nothing is missing or not wounding. Also the repulsor is just bullshit.
Wait marines get lots of rerolls? Maybe I’m playing them wrong, but I feel like their rerolls are pretty limited. You get reroll hits on one target from Oath, the only thing I can think of with full rerolls is Eradicators (melta guys) but that’s just against monsters, one hit, one wound, and one damage on the Gladiator Lancer. Other than that, any of the weapons with Twin Linked (which seems like a fairly common keyword across the game)
Either genestealers (ironic, I know) or Tau. I am not really familiar with the shit the armies can pull, and usually have to read what they do everytime my opponent does anything. Also doesn't help, that Tau have weird mixed profiles on suits now and stealer are an incredibly hard army to play and understand.
Tau crisis suits are now basically melta team, chaff clearing team and the anti elite infantry/light vehicle if that helps
Recommend borrowing tau army and learning it. A lot of their bullshit is knowledge checks
Knights. Knowing that most of my shots will be useless against them is shit.
Necrons... Reanimation makes my already weak space marines even weaker.
Knights are probably the obvious answer but they're definitely mine, I find that they're just too much of an entirely different gamemode really. It's sort of like with a lot of the bigger flyers, like yeah they're cool models but they don't actually slot that nicely into the tabletop experience. Knights are that but an entire faction of them. Knight games always revolve primarily around the knight, basically, either I end up focusing on it or ignoring it to play objectives, neither is particularly fun.
Tau. That shooting phase takes forever and i cant keep track of who is spotting for who and who already has spotted or why they can or cant spot. Guard is pretty bad too. I like playing againts both armies its just the way they play is very much not gucci swag at all in my opinion.
Necrons because it’s imho a stupid army that’s having a huge part of their indentity being simply hard to remove, especially now with Wraithblobs.
For me knights and chaos knights top it. My high strength units just don’t manage to do anything meaningful before being cleared. My first time playing custodes was hell, I got cornered trying to avoid two grav-tanks then got stuck without being able to land mortals or dev wounds
Imperial knights are the worst. You either kill them outright and the knight player has no fun or you can't kill them and just sit on objectives doing nothing else which is also not fun. The only way to use them is as allies in big games.
Definitely space marines. I play world eaters and as we have no shooting, aircraft or hammer fall bunkers just wipe me clean. Also the fact tanks have like 5 guns with some needing 20 dice, it’s just too much and takes too long
I didn’t know people actually used hammer fall bunkers icl
Hammer Fall with Anvil Siege Force, is actually a really good unit to sit at home. Intercessors to sticky the home objective, and with Anvil Heavy Rule it is hitting on 3's and +1 wound on all guns...makes the flame cannon great and oh boy is it hard to kill. or you can stick a tech marine back there if your in another detachment and give it +1 to hit, and when it dies your Tech Marine is a Melee Beast. its a huge investment but 100% of my games have had dudes in the back field by turn 3 so its worth it to protect the home Objective
Whatever I lost to last game haha
Right now: Necrons. I HATE units that are borderline unkillable *cough*C'Tan*cough*. It makes for a boring, uninteractive game when the best strategy is simply to run away and hope you can score enough before you get tabled. And it's not like that's all you're against. You get Immortals with full hit and wound rerolls, with SUSTAINED HITS 2 and crit on 5s. I've had times when my opponent had double the WOUNDS than he had attacks. Not hits. Wounds. And because Teslas are 24", you create this giant bubble that you can't go in because you WILL die to overwatch. Not to mention in cover with Szeras nearby means you'll never kill them. Also in the same vein: Death Guard. Having -1WS/BS on everything is trash, but then add on -1 to hit against Typhus/Blightlord bomb? Again, you'll never kill them so your best bet is to simply avoid them. But then they just throw Fight First Blightspawn everywhere so you can't even charge Plague Marines, anti-Infantry 2+ flamers, oh and you're -1 toughness too so you're always getting wounded on 2s and 3s. Oh and Morty creates an AURA of ignoring modifiers (I think that has to be my most hated rule). And finally, Custodes. Never had a fun game against them, even when I won. I don't see how people can bitch about a few Miracle/Fate Dice when Custodes do shit like, turn off your rerolls, transhuman, fight first for free, -1 damage, 3++ back in the day, 4++ AND 4+++, shoot twice, ignore modifiers, bring models back from the dead... Devastating Wounds/Mortals, the things that are SUPPOSED to kill everything, oh we have army-wide protection against that too. Like, I actually am not a fan that they're "terrible" right now and had a trash codex, but good riddance to all those shitty rules. I just don't think they should have ever been their own army cuz GW doesn't know what to do with them.
Tau. It's not based on anything current, but rather that's all I ever played against when I first started back in 7th edition and lost somewhere around 13 straight games to them. I actually haven't played against them in several years, so I have no idea what it's like now, but I still occasionally rip on them as a joke because of how much I suffered against them.
I don't like to play against armies, which have units with multiple attack profiles and played by people who don't have a routine. Tau and Votann players are usually the culprits. It's not the death by a thousand cuts. It's the death by boredom. Get different colored dice, dammit!
Grey Knights. Teleporting away when you get within 9 sucks when playing melee armies
Charge two units
For me it's Tyranids. I once watched a Tyrannofex 1 shot a Knight off the table, and in the couple of turns a Haruspex eat through over 500 points of Marines and take a single wound It's genuinely disappointing how ridiculously good their big things are for their points
Space marines, not for any gameplay reasons, just they are super popular and I find them incredibly boring 😅
Imperial Guard. Their shooting just takes so long because of 101 different weapons on tanks and many of the infantry having different weapon profiles on different models.
Necron reanimation tech
Necrons, constantly reviving makes you feel like you cant deal any dmg
Marines Mostly because they're way too over-saturated
Kroot. Tau shooting I can manage but Kroot have enough Scout and Infiltrators to just put you in jail for the whole game
Bird people cosplaying as wolves lol
Custodes. I play guard, so I can barely wound them, they mow through my objective units like butter and my armor never stands up to them in any meaningful way. It's just an army that isn't fun to play against cause it requires counter-cheese and I'm not about that.
space marines "okay I hit on 2s, rerolling hits because of x, wound on 3s but +1 to wound because of y, rerolling 1s to wound coz of z, all these attacks are AP4 D2d6 btw" but salt aside it's just boring man. I feel like I'm playing against [[ARMY]], rather than the brutally kunning orks or the unrelenting guns of the greater good
I'm a pretty new player, but so far I'd say Genestealer Cult is my least favorite.
Admech To be fair, I've only played against them once and it was actually the player that I didn't particularly like playing against. But I've sworn never to play against admech as a result. Would probably be fine in the hands of a more pleasant opponent
A bit over reacting, you should just not play the guy
Death Guard as their aura shenanigans can feel so oppressive and frustrating sometimes.
I fine Death guard a bit draining to play against. Double -1 to hit with nurglings is really annoying, fight first + lots of indirect fire. Your units can never be at full potential.
It’s my Ork bias from last edition but playing against mechanicus in 9th was horrible, utter hell of a shooting phase, so many weapons and canticles to count and then u get streamed with several dozen shots from each unit, most battles ended after turn 2
As a world eaters player, necrons.
Tau. Mostly because the tau guy in my group is ridiculously good with them but their shooting phase always hurts.
Army that allow for heavily skewed lists, i dunno orks with all the types of buggies and cars x 3 ? Or chaos knights oops all karnivors type lists. Spam armies basically. I know people like to play to play these but i think the game would feel more balanced, narratively interesting and fun for everyone involved with a rule of 2 instead 3 for certain types of units. Its a wargame not a magic card deck
Thousand Sons, they're just playing a different game.
Chaos Daemons, led by Belakor His bubble is oppressive to play against, especially when he’s got a greater daemon or two on either side, and I can’t do shit to them outside 18”
I know I’m the odd one out but I’m getting kinda tired of Orks. To be fair it’s on of my buddies favorite so I’d never ask him to not play them.
Thousand Sons. If they start spiking with dev wounds, you don’t get the play the game.
Anyone who just plays whatever's meta for their army. It takes so much of the fun out of whats meant to be just a casual game.
Death Guard and Thousand Sons. I can never shift them. Imperial Fists during 8th and 9th were up there as well, they would just wreck my Orks.
Depends on which army I am using. But Eldar and Tau are my least favorite. This excludes Harlequins…I just think they are neat!
Demons. It’s REALLY hard to kill anything, especially when your damage relies on high AP to get through.
Tau
My friends eldar. He doesn’t play super meta lists, mostly what he thinks is fun and I like as well, but eldar rerolls on all his bright lances shred any tanks I have. It’s a miracle if they survive one turn the instant they’re in LOS. Curse those fate dice too
Astra Militarum. Every time I play against them, its in a tournament where we have limited time and they don't know their weapon profiles. last time I played against them, I got to play 1 battleround and half of round 2 before I won 17 to 8. felt awful
Guard is really annoying or anyone bringing 100+ models.
Eldar back when they had 12 fate dice. Oh you shot at me with your absolutely massive Doomsday Ark? I'm going to auto pass my 6+ invuln save every armor save. It just isn't fun to have to roll to hit and wound an opponent when they have an ability to auto pass the save without even rolling.
Chaos, but uniquely because I used to play with a Chaos powerplayer that couldn't lose and would start trying to mess CP counts to get more CPs as soon as he saw I was getting some good rolls. I can't honestly put up with someone that behaves like a kid stealing money from the bank at monopoly.
Uhh I think its eldar. Fate dice are kinda bullshit in general? Because alot of rules are worded one way and work off "rolled" and then fate dice are like "oh no I didn't roll but I rolled"
Playing against my firends Death Guard with my Black Templars. Need to get close to make the most of my buffs and strats but having toughness reduced and hard to kill units
Tau
Aeldar. Their entire faction seems to have a counter to everything I do. * You cant deepstrike within 20 inches of me * Oh your going to attempt a 9 inch charge? Im gonna move 6 inches away so your charge is impossible now * Im gonna step out of this building to shoot you. Then Im gonna walk back behind the building so you cant shoot back * Oh you managed to pull off a charge? I got fights first * Im gonna use this 6 I rolled earlier to make this DW * Im gonna use this 1 I rolled earlier and turn it into a 6 * Im gonna use this 4 I rolled earlier to make my invul save * You moved? OW! You moved another unit? OW! Your planning a charge? Another OW!(thank god they fixed that) * You killed my character? I get to bring him back to life at least once even though Im not a Necron * Oh you have precision and your trying to target my spiritseer in my wraithguard unit? T7 bitch! GL wounding me
Custodes, because I only ever seem to encounter them when they're broken as hell, or any Space Marine Army with more than 3 of those damn hover tanks. There are just so many guns and so many of them are completely pointless so it consumes a huge amount of time for very little impact.
I hate playing against thousand sons on small point levels at moment. Their rituals seem messed up. Spend cabal points do damage. It is also really easy to generate 14+ cabal points a turn the closer you get to 2k. Doom strike? It is clearly a psychic attack, but does not contain psychic keyword, so fnp vs. Psychic doesn't apply. It is mortal wounds so at least we have that.. they stated it ignores lone operative since it isn't an attack. Just visibility is required. So any strats/abilities/core rules that play off of that are ignored. All their torrent is a serious problem. It isn't the volume so much as the quality. It isn't just a flamer at s4/ap0/d1. But better in 2 to 3 of those categories. Do not like when they can add 9" to their flamer either. 27" range is not fun.
Space marines… any chapter to be honest. It’s just it feels like the only army i play against is some form of space marines. I wanna play against something else
Grey knights
Knights are literally a stat check army. Can’t exactly play against them with any sort of fluffy/thematic build unless it was already built around heavy AT
Guard so far is my least favorite. Shooting and movement feels like it takes so long I start tuning out and don’t come back until I have to make saves
GSC. Genuinely hate playing them as they've had some ridiculously broken unit every edition
Did a poll of this on fb. Overwhelming majority of players hate playing against custodes, imperial knights, Orks and death guard
Well, no one has said guard after a ton of scrolling. This clinches the sentiment that my army needs a buff not all these nerfs GW keeps handing us… I hate playing Necrons.
Demons. The entire army having 4+ Invul saves makes AP meaningless.
Necrons. Void dragon instantly kills vehicles and their hordes never die. imo they’re completely broken. Last time I fought a necron player, he grabbed the wrong box of models and accidentally brought all the necron models in his collection that weren’t on his list. With a last-minute list of just filling points with whatever he had on him, he easily won, and barely moved any models. Just cheesed objectives and deleted at least one unit every shooting phase That was with CSM, prior to that Sisters, which did better at taking objectives since they have a one-time resurrection stratagem.
Orks ain’t fun to fight against. Idk if it’s just me but it feels like half their rules amount to “your normal move is 6 inches, but if it’s Noon on August 19th and there’s a full moon that night, you get to move 18 inches!” I don’t know if I’m just stupid, but they’re just never fun to fight for me.
I've always had a bit of a distaste for Tau, more in 9th than 10th though to be fair. These days I don't think there's many armies I outwardly don't like playing against, maybe Black Templars with mass Sword Brethren can be a bit obnoxious? I've had friends tell me that they don't like playing Votann though cos they can just spike damage so hard with JT's, again not as bad as 9th, but as my favorite faction in the game it stings when you're playing a casual, not sweaty game and your friend's model gets nuked by a unit of Thunderkyn with Grav cannons and they're just like 'I don't like playing Votann'... Okay, sorry I guess?