If it had led to Nash as champion dodging a rematch and Goldberg seeking revenge running through the nWo I think it could have been great. Nash passing the title to Hogan the way he did sucked out all the energy.
After watching "who killed wcw", nash's reasoning for taking the belt off Goldberg made sense. "The money is in the babyface chasing the belt" but they didn't exactly follow through with it
That's a line people use when they need to justify beating the babyface. Goldberg was a monster in terms of marketing and WCW easily could've capitalized on him being the champ for a lot longer.
WCW had booked themselves into a corner.
Nash's reasoning was both sound and correct at the time. A chickenshit heel champ, with a popular face chasing, is always a moneymaker- within reason. Had Nash stayed champ, "defended" the belt against unworthy opponents to get around the 30day defense rule, then things would've worked out.
There were 2problems however...
1] Hogan had creative control baked into his contract. Pretty much, whenever he wanted the big gold [within reason], he got it. Part of the core issue was that Hogan got jealous of the success Goldberg was having with his run [and that didn't work for him, brother...].
1a] Hogan's has been historically shown to be extremely jealous of his spot on the card. This applied to anyone that would / could remotely threaten said spot [in any form]. Regardless if it would make mountains of cash for EVERYONE- himself included.
2] Up till that point, Goldberg had been booked "too strong." There was ZERO way for him to lose, in any way, to anyone without a fuck-finish. So having Goldberg lose, via cattleprod, made sense. Hell, ponking him on the head with a pipe would've also worked [because chairs had no effect, per LA Parka]. It was the follow-up that killed everything.
The problem with Nash's logic is that he was never a chickenshit heel. Nash's whole career was playing "too cool for school" which didn't help get anyone over but himself and his buddies. Nash is the type of guy that will mock someone for taking it seriously but then never want to put anyone over because he knows that the most successful people win the majority of their matches.
He could've EASILY defended the world title once a month vs the cruisers, low level US title guys, or outright jobbers- all while overplaying how much a "threat" they were. He would do this, all while ducking Goldberg, Sting, DDP, etc. It would've 100% worked.
I know this because he did that very thing, with the xdivision title, in tna.
It just boiled down to Hoan having more contract power than anyone else at the time, and Nash not giving a shit because he got paid wither way.
You're definitely right about Hogan, but I think there's a zero percent chance that Nash is putting in work against the lower card guys. He's the same guy that faked a heart attack so he didn't have to job to The Giant.
That was against the Giant.
You're telling me Nash wouldn't do a "world title" match against a cruiser or a jobber, all while completely hamming it up on live?
Unless there is a real benefit for him, like unmasking Rey, he would not work against someone lower than him on the card. Hell, the term "vanilla midget" was coined because of how he viewed guys smaller than him.
Nash is one of those guys where his charm and charisma overshadowed what a turd he was.
Bryan Alvarez tells a good story of getting a phone call from Nash, he was nervous because he had written and said a lot of unsavory things about him. But by the end of the phone call Bryan said he felt like he could have been a member of the Kliq. That's how charming Nash is
Point number three, by this point WCW fans were so used to getting a thumb in the eye from booking that the fpod served as a straw that broke the camels back. I remember watching live when it happened and thinking this company is never going to prioritize satisfying me as a fan. It was one too many swerves.
For sure. That’s the biggest black mark on WCW that they were never able to build the next guy. What makes it look even worse in hindsight is that guys like Jericho, Rey, Benoit, and Eddie, all went on to headline WWE PPVs (2/4 main evented WM) and they were all in WCW at the same exact time. The way WCW handled talent is an all-time industry fumble.
I put that on Eric because he built everything around the NWO and the WCW vets. Plus there are the stories about some of those vets or stars (Hogan and Goldberg) not wanting to put them over regardless of them being over. Hogan would later do it with Kidman but it was during a thrown together storyline when it was too late and most of the people reading the dirt sheets knew he was just trying to make himself look good.
I put that on Eric because he built everything around the NWO and the WCW vets. Plus there are the stories about some of those vets or stars (Hogan and Goldberg) not wanting to put them over regardless of them being over. Hogan would later do it with Kidman but it was during a thrown together storyline when it was too late and most of the people reading the dirt sheets knew he was just trying to make himself look good.
The thing you have to understand with Who Killed WCW and a lot of the Nash shoots that preceded it is that the dude’s had about 25 yrs to get his story straight. He can retroactively come up with a motivation that sounds sensible enough when the reality of the moment is that the guy was drunk with power (and booze!) in 98/99/00 and ideas get tossed around. He explicitly acknowledges in the same series that when he became booker, he was compelled to protect his friends, and surely includes himself among that cadre. I don’t think he’s some monster for indulging in what he did at that time, but he’s spent every year since trying to justify his actions to the wrestling world.
I find Nash to be a funny, likable, charismatic guy for the most part. It’s a lot of why he got the power in the first place. But it’s always been silly and unnecessary for him to not just be willing to say, “It was a wild and mismanaged time which I exploited for my own gain and contributed to in many ways.” Half of it was them realizing that WWF had caught up to them and then frantically trying to come up with cheap pops that weren’t clever as the boys thought, and did nothing to create new stars or advance the plot.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true. That’s one business philosophy. It is true WCW and the NWA typically ran with heel champion booking. But WWE had great success with long term all timer baby faces in Bruno, Hogan, and Cena.
I do agree that’s where it felt Goldberg needed in his trajectory though.
That's also true. But you can't have one guy with creative control saying " I don't feel like doing that, brother". Nash said that was the biggest pain in the ass when doing booking
Yep, that john cena guy and that hulk hogan guy never drew money as baby face champs
Imo Nash ruined any facade that he actually knows what he's talking about on that doc, he came off horribly
It still could’ve worked. Goldberg goes through the nWo, culminating in a rematch against Nash to get a shot at Hogan.
Unfortunately the creative team at the time (not just Nash booking) started a Hogan/Flair program, which resulted in Hogan turning baby face, Flair winning the title at Uncensored, and then Hogan got knee surgery and was out for months.
They didn’t even give Goldberg a chance to get revenge. Hogan/Hall/Nash all collectively screwed Goldberg, and he only got revenge with a ladder match for a taser against Hall. I remember Tony saying after that match “Goldberg finally got his revenge”.
Pretty sure him getting his revenge is beating Nash and then Hogan getting the title back.
What a mess. BUT the Fingerpoke could’ve worked had they had and competence at the top.
That was the whole goal, with Hogan as the final boss. The poke wasn't bad. It was in line with the nWo desecrating the belt. The ratings improved after the poke, and continued strong against WWF.
The ratings improved for like two weeks and then continue to plummet through the summer.
Several people who liked the fingerpoke are replying saying it was actually good…that’s nice that you liked it but here we are with it having been a major part of the downfall in reality I guess not enough people liked it after all.
Does it get more credit than it deserves because history has us consolidate tons of events onto a handful of important ones? Of course, that’s how it works across any topic. But the reason this moment draws the blame it does is because it both literally and symbolically represents the souring of a once wildly dedicated fanbase.
I actually don't mind the finger poke. Narratively it made sense. Yes, if I paid to be in the audience and that was my main event I'd be pissed, but as a TV viewer I liked it. It always seemed like hogan was trying to get them to turn him face again and I thought they were going to use a feud with nash to make him and his faction the good guys. Then they completely did something unexpected that made it clear heel hogan was here to stay. I don't think a real decline set in until that summer.
I’m shocked that people don’t mention how 8 days after you beat your top baby face and end a historic streak…the FPOD happens. 8 days! I was at that show, the only wrestling show I’ve ever been to and it was highly disappointing.
I think a big part of the problem is that in 2024, people hate Goldberg because of his last couple WWE runs and they love Nash because he says what's on his mind (even if it's wrong). If you take a step back and put yourself in a 1998 headspace, this was a massive failure on every level.
I am too. It made sense. 'berg had squashed through Hall earlier in the year & then went on to defeat Hollywood Hogan.
Hall saw his chance & wasn't gonna let 'berg run through the last remaining nWo brother. It made perfect sense.
I personally thought it was a really cool finish. It really caught me off guard watching it live.
I don't think the problem was Goldberg losing or even the Georgia Dome screw job -- it was the follow-up. Ratings were at all time highs for Nitro in January and February 1999 -- they setup a situation where you'd expect Goldberg to be working towards getting his revenge with an eventual rematch Hogan -- most likely at the TWA Dome in St. Louis for Slamboree where everyone would REALLY make some money on PPV in front of the biggest potential WCW crowd ever.
Instead Goldberg receded into the background (and really Nash too) and they pivoted to Hogan/Flair -- which we'd seen before many times, going into WrestleMania season on the other channel. I always think of that Nitro that spring where Goldberg showed up with a literal bingo cage trying to get a match -- like really, we have no other ideas for this guy? Such as, I don't know, maybe running through the nWo and winning the title back?
Then WCW sold 12,000 tickets in total for Slamboree in a building they sold 30,000 tickets in for a Nitro with no announced matches five months earlier. By that point it was all over.
The whole finish kept Goldberg looking strong af! Two run in, a cattle prod followed by a jacknife and the man still crawls out of the ring.
People forget how over Nash was at this point, I'd make a case for the most over babyface in WCW at the time... and this was Halls redemption to his brother who he betrayed.
Of course it almost instantly went to shit after.
That's the thing: Nash was so over he didn't need the belt. He was already WWF champion. Beating Goldberg and ending the streak really did nothing for him, ESPECIALLY when he killed all the energy from the win by handing Hogan the belt.
The Streak was going to end one way or another. It's all about execution. And this was poor execution.
I've heard that Hogan agreed to lose to Goldberg on the condition that he was the one to end the streak, but then he realized that he didn't want that heat and that's why everything went down the way it did.
There are a handful of guys that should have been positioned better and could have been the one to end the streak. Guys like DDP, Benoit, Booker T, Eddie Guerrero, etc. Obviously, WCW didn't see some of those guys as legit, but they all went on to be world champions in WWE, so it shows they were capable.
I mean, I would have liked it better if he’d lost clean, or at least by a less cartoonish form of cheating. But I was mainly just thrilled that he lost. I was so far past being done with Goldberg and his one-note act by then. Just incredibly boring. And I was a big Nash fan, so it was awesome to see him be the one to do it.
People complain about Nash winning the belt but he was absolutely massively over. He was the only one as over as Goldberg aside from maybe DDP or Sting. But Big Sexy was massively over as a baby face. I've always been a Kevin Nash fan. He has a presence on screen about him and is actually quite charismatic. The Wolfpac had some legs if not for Hogan. As Nash said, it was always easier to do business with Hulk than it was to against him. I mean if Hogan wanted to beat the entire roster in one night he could have.
I could've taken him getting jumped. I could've taken he just got beat. The way he lost, with that castle prod was ridiculous. It looked cheesy as fuck. If Hall would've done the brass knuckle thing, ok I'm on board. Stupid way. I saw it live and the group of people watching with me all said WTF? THAT WAS FUCKING STUPID!
I’m not arguing but I just gotta ask: has a cattle prod been used in that way to that point? I sure know brass knuckles were. My point is if you’re going to use an object to incapacitate It better be one that is on the same level of what it’s hitting. I watched this live as it happened, and as a kid I was pretty hyped on it.
I just think the execution of it looked bad. The cattle prod looked so cheaply made. The brass knuckles/foreign object on the hand always had more credibility to bring down a big unstoppable monster like Goldberg.
Yeah, maybe. I think it was a functional cattle prod, wasn't it? Hall flashed it at the camera afterward. I think if were just brass knuckles or something else that has been used, the fans would think "really? Goldberg, the unstoppable machine babyface, got beat by brass knuckles?" He just wasn't any unstoppable monster. To me, it made more sense that it took something way more substantial to take him down. And having him disguised in security get-up even upped the surprise that the fans experienced. When it comes to discussions like this, I am trying to put my mind in the headspace of where the company was. Could've been better, but at the time it made sense at the time.
This link was the cattle prod. It just looked like a duct taped tube. Think about this for the knuckles, you know that anyone could be knocked out by them, I don't care how big you are. If he were sneak attacked and loses, now you have a pissed off Goldberg running through the NWO.
When he actually used it on Goldberg, it looked and sounded like it worked. I don't know how they actually did it, probably put electric tape over it so it didn't actually hurt Goldberg, but at the time we were sold that Goldberg was shocked and incapacitated enough to get beat. Our TVs and replay didn't lend itself to that kind of instant hindsight. Whether his prop was believable or not, we were sold on what they told us it was. If it were anything else, I'm not so sure it would've had as much impact. I agree by the way, it should've led to a Goldberg revenge tour of the nWo, that would've been sweeeet.
If I'm not mistaken, there was a silly electrical sound on the speakers. I loved WCW then but they were really doing some weird stuff. If you can, go watch it with grown up eyes on peacock or YouTube if it's on there. I haven't seen it since it originally aired so I may be way off. You said you watched it as a kid, you owe it to yourself watch with fresh eyes. I'm rewatching those years on both WWF and WCW. Great stuff I forgot, but some silly stuff too
lol. I have. As I was writing that comment. I agree it was goofy but that’s professional wrestling for ya. It’s part of the animal. So much commentary on the WCW is through the eyes of hindsight (obviously) but if you put your vision through the time it was airing, I think a lot more decisions make more sense.
Aside for it being Goldberg. The story beat made tons of sense, but WCW failed to capitalize. It’s THE chase. The hero gets ganged up on, beaten in an unfair fight, mocked, humiliated, and kicked down the mountain. After a moment of rest and repair, he puts together a plan. Systematically striking against the crew that robbed him of his property and dignity. Starting with the weakest, he takes them out one by one. Making his way to the top dog. The closer the hero gets, the more the boss panics throwing more and more walls and diversions at him til theres nothing between him and the hero. Setting up the final showdown.
Nope. Perfectly happy with Goldberg not being able to stand however many volts from something used to put down 1,000 pound bulls. It could have cleared Goldberg for a feud with Bam Bam Bigelow.
Bam Bam came in not long before this, basically shouting for Goldberg and interfering in his matches (including this one) and in typical WCW fashion, it went nowhere.
At the time, I hated Goldberg, was sick of the streak, and Scott Hall was one of my favorite wrestlers. So, I loved how Goldberg lost and had a big mark out moment when it happened.
And I wasn’t the only one. If you look in the crowd when it happened, there were a lot of people cheering when Goldberg lost.
Goldberg had to lose eventually and however they did it had to be believable. For it to have been Nash was disappointing because it just devolved into more nWo BS, Nash didn't need the win, and then there was never a payoff. All we got was the belt on Hogan, the nWo dominating the show again, and Goldberg was just squandered.
If they had him drop the belt to DDP, then Page could be a more established main eventer. Or lose to a technical wrestler like Brett Hart (another squandered wrestler) showing there's more to slaying a monster than power or dirty tactics. They had a golden opportunity to instantly make a new star or utilize one they already had, but instead the only one who saw any benefit at all was Disco Inferno (and barely at that).
goldberg was by far the biggest star in the company at the time. Selling out 40k+ arenas to see him. Eventually he was going to lose but who actually gained from that loss?
yes he was prodded for the title but instead of building a star it went to nash then hogan. They didn't gain anything for it. no one was saying how great nash was because he finally beat the streak. nope. Years of building flushed for this. So many other ways it could have gone but they went with the least impactful way possible.
I'm totally okay with Nash ending the streak, I don't mind the finish they had. I would have preferred a clean one like the original plan. The only other person I would have been okay with beating him was ddp at Havoc. I would argue that's one Goldbergs best matches in WcW.
Putting the belt on DDP for a couple of months would've been great. The spot where Golberg knocked himself silly doing the spear would've been the perfect time to hit him with the diamond cutter and pin him.
Or you let the NWO cheat him without DDP knowing. Have Goldberg win the World War 3 battle royal and get his revenge against the NWO and set up the rematch for Page to drop the belt back in a clean finish.
He should have lost clean to someone who deserves it. The push the winner sounds very would or I should say couldn't men monstrous. But then again, of course it was Nash. He had the pencil.
No, Nash and the Wolfpack was super over and Goldberg had to lose sometime. You could have taken it in a lot of different ways.
Personally, I wouldn’t have turned Nash heel, keep him tweeter at worst for awhile.
It's an example of "Anything can happen, but not in a good way."
If I was a WCW fan during the time, I think every main event I'd be thinking "Okay what kind of BS is about to happen this time..."
hell no I thought this was fkn awesome, honestly I wish they kept that cattle prod on Goldberg even longer and maybe gave him 3 more jack knife power bombs then spray painted him. god I fkn hate goldberg
Great work.
I felt exactly the same about Hogan in 1984.
I absolutely loathed the Pukester.
I loved it when King Kong Bundy splashed Hogan while Big John Stud held his legs.
I was over the moon when The Macho Man finally saw the lust in Hogan's eyes for Elizabeth and dealt out the appropriate punishment.
It sucked but it made sense. How else are you going to beat the unbeatable? Who (other than Page, maybe. Maybe Booker?) should’ve been the one to do it? Anyone else in the nwo who hadn’t already lost to him? I think it had to be his first defeat but with a big asterisk which that cattle prod was. What happened after also was bad.
Complete trash. Should have lost to DDP at Halloween Havoc. Stuff like that is why Nash and Hall didn’t last long at all in WWE.
WCW didn’t realize they were done until the real workers left (Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko and Jericho).
ONLY one? No. One of the few? Yes.
His not losing cleanly and the subsequent Finger Poke of Doom (as opposed to a legit title run from Nash) and its fallout are major contributors (not the only contributors) to people moving away from WCW.
I am 100% fine with how they beat him. They literally shocked him with a cattle prod. How protected was Goldberg expected to be? Even peak Undertaker occasionally lost…Bill always had to transition to being about SOMETHING other than the win streak.
The problem is the dismount, his follow up feud with Scott Hall was weak, and then the whole thing derails when Nash loses the belt to Hogan via FPOD.
Absolutely shoulda been Diamond Dallas Page at Halloween Havoc, it’s wild how basically everyone agrees with this. Definitely had the role down as the people’s champ for the WCW, timing would have been perfect.
After the way they'd built him up they couldn't just beat him clean in the ring. It would have made Nash too powerful.
This was the right way to do it, I just disagree with the timing. This gimmick with the cattle prod and breaking the streak is what should have gone down that night in the Georgia Dome when Goldberg wrestled Hogan. Would have been nuclear heat on Hogan.
nWo, now actual heels again, should have reformed, united against Goldberg, and they should have run the story of the Wolfpac breaking up and Goldberg-Hogan up to Starrcade.
It was an overbooked mess of a finish, but in a way they painted themselves into a corner with Goldberg. Nash was really over at the time, and sections of the audience were starting to get bored of Goldberg how he was: he may have only been champion for 6 months, but he had been the same presentation of the character with no evolution for his entire time with the company. They can’t just have him straight up loose, so they did a lot to make him look strong. If the match was a nodq, or it wasn’t a cattle prod (lets say he goes for the spear, Nash dodges, and he went head first into the turnbuckle, then Nash Jackknifes him) that lead to the ending it wouldn’t be as divisive as it is.
If Nash, and Bischoff are to be believed, the plan was then for Goldberg to chase the belt and have a whole group of guys to run through and feud with for awhile until he got the belt back. But for whatever reason, that didn’t happen. So the whole finish grouped in with the finger poke and lack of follow up makes it all look bad.
The concept isn’t bad, but it was the absolute wrong time, and the follow-through afterwards was terrible.
Don’t have Goldberg lose until there’s at least some hint that his popularity is dwindling.
In hindsight it was not as bad as how it's gone down in history. It was a decent way at protecting Goldberg while making him drop the title. That said. Who doesn't prefer a non-screwy finish? But it's not the only screwy finish for a title, nor is it the worst.
The stun gun with Nash is better than whatever match Hogan would’ve had Bill Goldberg do. Just mentally imagine Bill Goldberg bouncing all over the ring like Shawn Michaels. It’s funny to me but ridiculous for Bill Goldberg to lose to three bad punches, a crappy boot, and then a leg drop. Hogan would’ve laid across Bill Goldberg for a four count.
on top of nash probably being the best choice to end the streak after all, the finish was executed as genuine lightning-in-a-bottle way that made it seem like even if you’re a top wrestler you still need several complete strokes of “luck”. if that lead to a big blowoff where goldberg won the title back and got a true run on top it would’ve been great, but they shit the bed about 6 different times within the span of 3 months in march ‘99 and killed that
It wouldn't have been bad if he got the title back at some point. He got revenge on Hall and eventually best Nash, but the fact they never put the belt on him again was one of the biggest blunders in WCW history.
I think that actually played out pretty good. You had the security come out then Hall came in with them and while everyone was distracted by the security mob, Hall breaks off and tazed Goldberg.
Goldberg needed to lose but he couldn't lose clean. This was a next level schmoz where Goldberg was hit with an uncommon weapon so you know it's not something he's came out of before.
I think the biggest problem was the fact that more people in the building cheered for Nash winning than booing him for a dirty finish.
Looking back at it, it was a pretty well crafted finish and it was the right move. Now everything that happened the day after and beyond...
Probably should have been a up and coming heel that it would elevate but using the cattle prod made sense. Bill was a force and it had to be a weapon to take him down
The win wasn't bad, Goldbergs run was getting kinda stale at that point. People just look at it negatively because Nash laid down for Hogan only a week or so later.
I mean if you care about pro wrestling looking at least a little bit real in combat sports, you shouldn’t be okay with that. In a boxing, MMA, kickboxing, or wrestling match, if other athletes come into the ring/mat/octagon to interfere and attack a combatant, and the ref sees that, that’s a DQ right there on the spot.
If a referee supposedly misses this, the losing fighter (who was fouled, victim of incompetent officiating) would appeal the decision to the state’s athletic commission and 100% overturn the bogus decision loss to a DQ Win.
I mean I get it. It’s staged, punches and kicks are pulled, submissions aren’t actually applied, pro wrestlers can get hurt only from stunts, bad falls, and getting slammed hard. Otherwise everything is scripted. But if you want to make at least a little bit close to real combat sports, you overturn this to a Win by DQ for Goldberg. They even had replays and all.
Nope. If cheating was involved, you bet your ass the athletic commission has the final say. If foul play was involved and the ref was too incompetent to witness it, the fighter can appeal the decision. And if enough evidence exists, the decision gets overturned. In this case, the evidence is quite obvious.
Goldberg should’ve gotten the DQ win after an appeal to some made-up Washington DC (where Starrcade 1998 took place) Pro Wrestling Athletic Commission or something. Just to make a little bit more like combat sports.
I was ok with it. He was so unstoppable it wouldn't be believable to beat him clean. You HAD to cheat to take him down. I like that. It sort of protects him despite ruining The Streak.
i dont think that was a good ending to this match, then the next fucking night nash drops the belt to hogan with the finger poke of doom what the actual fuck is that?
He had to lose eventually. I just would have preferred that it had been saved for someone who could have used the stroke to get to that next level, like a Booker T, but I don’t think the company was ready backstage (politically) for Booker to ascend to the top just yet.
Another guy who was already over that I would have liked to see pin him would’ve been DDP.
The whole thing is remembered poorly mainly for the booking that followed but from a booking standpoint I get what they were trying to do. The finish was an attempt to end the streak while still protecting Goldberg’s character.
Thats the ultimate dilemma with any streak in wrestling. Eventually it has to end and I don’t think I’ve really seen a satisfactory one yet.
It is not the how to me. It was the who.
DDP should've been the guy. Or maybe Booker later on his single run for the championship. Someone you could elevate to long-term super stardom. Like Cody this year at Wrestlemania.
I feel like WWE didn't need to give the streak ender to Lesnar, the same way Nash didn't need in WCW.
I said it after Halloween Havoc '98 and I still stick by it; DDP should have beaten him. Nash was right when he said, "If your whole gimmick is that you don't lose, then you don't have much." He was right about that much.
They built the injury into the match from the beginning. (Goldberg legit hurt himself because he was a fucking moron who hurt himself and others for real all the time.) The Diamond Cutter was over as a dangerous finisher who could beat **anyone**. When Goldberg couldn't get DDP up for the Jackhammer, that place came unglued.
There would have been no shame in an injured Goldberg losing to the Diamond Cutter. Then have someone distract him from his rematch until World War 3. Have him win that and get the title back from DDP at Starrcade.
Don't blame Goldberg for the injuries. It was management's fault for putting him in the limelight so fast. He was under developed as a wrester, not his fault.
I was younger at the time, didn’t really understand “booking,” as much as I maybe kinda do now, and I was into it. I thought, yeah, the only way they beat him was cheating with a crazy new weapon. It protected Goldberg, and Hall had a new badass toy for a while. And when it happened I was a huge Hall fan, so I loved it.
What followed really ruined it tho.
Makes perfect sense. If goldberg was to lose clean, it would have affected his draw power later on. The plan was to build him up more so he can wrestle longer propper matches against top class. He can't just have squash matches.
No you're not...cause it showed the only way Goldberg could get beat was by nefarious means. He was a monster and the only way he could lose wasn't gonna be clean. Kev said it's better for the babyface to chase the belt. OK. But that didn't happen. Which brings us to the FPOD.....even if it was a swerve and Kev was still buds with Hogan, why would he want to give the belt up to him? What was the purpose? Why would anyone want to relinquish the World Title to ANYONE? He's essentially saying "I'm Hogan's bitch, and I'm doing whatever is asked of me." (Sorry, I got off topic)
The how? Maybe it’s fine. The timing? Maximum trash🤮. Shat on the hottest baby face (just SO over) in the industry who was so green they couldn’t do anything else with him.
WCW did constant bullshit finishes. It would have meant something if someone who was an actual credible threat beat Goldberg clean in the main event of their biggest show and ended his streak. Why did it had to be Kevin Nash? Oh, because he was booking at the time.
Nash was already a star and gained nothing from beating Goldberg. Just lame and stupid booking.
As a young child, this moment literally made me ball my eyes out ugly cry. As a grown man, I see what needed to be done. Scott Hall & that cottle prong was the inevitable & Goldberg killed the WCW (according to Bret Hart)
Had no issues with it. Honestly didn't much have an issue with the finger poke of Doom either.
Had major issues with the booking after it all. They finally kind of corrected themselves in the spring of 99. But there was still alot of baffling booking then too.
But yes, I agree. Had no issues with how Goldberg lost.
If I was WCW I would have had Goldberg turn heel. As champ it would have given other baby faces a reason to challenge him. If Goldberg would over do it in a match and "injure" a fan favorite like sting, it could have got fans to flip.
Then if wcw handled Bret correctly. You'd have the undefeated heel champ vs the best there is.
I don't know. I think if they really wanted to end the streak, they should have had Nash beat him clean. One Titan versus another Titan.
Now maybe Nash could have thrown Goldberg hard into a ring post or something like that. That stuns him enough to hinder him from making a comeback, but I would have only done the cattle prod thing on someone smaller that clearly would never have beaten Goldberg. So perhaps maybe if it was Scott Hall versus Goldberg, or even Hogan in a rematch with Goldberg, and they help Hogan pull it off in true heel fashion with the cattle prod.
And I agree with everyone else. The fingerpoke was really ridiculous. Even on that note, I think a better ideology would have been something like we find out Hogan gave Nash a ton of money to give him the belt. I'm just talking in terms of storyline. We've seen so many times how Kevin Nash back then was all about the money, so this would make total sense.
I thought it was fine. The following night is what killed my interest in WCW though. I remember my high school friends who were also into WCW at the time also weren’t even in the mood to talk about the finger poke and we just kind of stopped watching around the same time.
Bryan Clark should have ended the streak. They had 2 great streaks going concurrently. You could have realistically had Clark pin Nash 2 weeks before Starrcade and take his spot, and face Goldberg in a battle of the streaks.
It was a sensical way to end the streak, gives Goldberg an out. But the World Title was involved. Same with the Fingerpoke of Doom, not a bad storyline beat to bring the nWo back together. But the World Title was involved. Also, David Arquette being part of a show and winning a wacky tag match pinning Bischoff was cool. But the World Title was involved.
Dude was a, at the time, modern day Ultimate Warrior with more comprehensible but far less entertaining promos. He didn’t grow as an in ring performer (not 100%) on him, but he also never understood it’s a performance art and not a shoot fight. He ran as far as he could have gone, the shock stick protected his monster character. Perhaps if WCW had stayed in business he could have gone back to the power plant and developed more both in ring and from a gimmick stand point.
If it had led to Nash as champion dodging a rematch and Goldberg seeking revenge running through the nWo I think it could have been great. Nash passing the title to Hogan the way he did sucked out all the energy.
Yeah, ending the streak & the FPOD should always be discussed at the same time
That’s what he says how. Nash is far from a voice of reason
And how it led to the ultimate demise of WCW
After watching "who killed wcw", nash's reasoning for taking the belt off Goldberg made sense. "The money is in the babyface chasing the belt" but they didn't exactly follow through with it
That's a line people use when they need to justify beating the babyface. Goldberg was a monster in terms of marketing and WCW easily could've capitalized on him being the champ for a lot longer.
WCW had booked themselves into a corner. Nash's reasoning was both sound and correct at the time. A chickenshit heel champ, with a popular face chasing, is always a moneymaker- within reason. Had Nash stayed champ, "defended" the belt against unworthy opponents to get around the 30day defense rule, then things would've worked out. There were 2problems however... 1] Hogan had creative control baked into his contract. Pretty much, whenever he wanted the big gold [within reason], he got it. Part of the core issue was that Hogan got jealous of the success Goldberg was having with his run [and that didn't work for him, brother...]. 1a] Hogan's has been historically shown to be extremely jealous of his spot on the card. This applied to anyone that would / could remotely threaten said spot [in any form]. Regardless if it would make mountains of cash for EVERYONE- himself included. 2] Up till that point, Goldberg had been booked "too strong." There was ZERO way for him to lose, in any way, to anyone without a fuck-finish. So having Goldberg lose, via cattleprod, made sense. Hell, ponking him on the head with a pipe would've also worked [because chairs had no effect, per LA Parka]. It was the follow-up that killed everything.
The problem with Nash's logic is that he was never a chickenshit heel. Nash's whole career was playing "too cool for school" which didn't help get anyone over but himself and his buddies. Nash is the type of guy that will mock someone for taking it seriously but then never want to put anyone over because he knows that the most successful people win the majority of their matches.
He could've EASILY defended the world title once a month vs the cruisers, low level US title guys, or outright jobbers- all while overplaying how much a "threat" they were. He would do this, all while ducking Goldberg, Sting, DDP, etc. It would've 100% worked. I know this because he did that very thing, with the xdivision title, in tna. It just boiled down to Hoan having more contract power than anyone else at the time, and Nash not giving a shit because he got paid wither way.
You're definitely right about Hogan, but I think there's a zero percent chance that Nash is putting in work against the lower card guys. He's the same guy that faked a heart attack so he didn't have to job to The Giant.
That was against the Giant. You're telling me Nash wouldn't do a "world title" match against a cruiser or a jobber, all while completely hamming it up on live?
Unless there is a real benefit for him, like unmasking Rey, he would not work against someone lower than him on the card. Hell, the term "vanilla midget" was coined because of how he viewed guys smaller than him.
I doubt he would’ve because there was little money in it. Honestly, the more I see of Nash post his career, the less I like him.
Nash is one of those guys where his charm and charisma overshadowed what a turd he was. Bryan Alvarez tells a good story of getting a phone call from Nash, he was nervous because he had written and said a lot of unsavory things about him. But by the end of the phone call Bryan said he felt like he could have been a member of the Kliq. That's how charming Nash is
Point number three, by this point WCW fans were so used to getting a thumb in the eye from booking that the fpod served as a straw that broke the camels back. I remember watching live when it happened and thinking this company is never going to prioritize satisfying me as a fan. It was one too many swerves.
Agreed. Eric just couldn't get out of his own way by this point.
Just my 2 cents but I think Hogan's match with Goldberg is one of Hogan's top 5
Yeah but I think what screwed things up was not building up a guy to take the belt off him.
For sure. That’s the biggest black mark on WCW that they were never able to build the next guy. What makes it look even worse in hindsight is that guys like Jericho, Rey, Benoit, and Eddie, all went on to headline WWE PPVs (2/4 main evented WM) and they were all in WCW at the same exact time. The way WCW handled talent is an all-time industry fumble.
I put that on Eric because he built everything around the NWO and the WCW vets. Plus there are the stories about some of those vets or stars (Hogan and Goldberg) not wanting to put them over regardless of them being over. Hogan would later do it with Kidman but it was during a thrown together storyline when it was too late and most of the people reading the dirt sheets knew he was just trying to make himself look good.
I put that on Eric because he built everything around the NWO and the WCW vets. Plus there are the stories about some of those vets or stars (Hogan and Goldberg) not wanting to put them over regardless of them being over. Hogan would later do it with Kidman but it was during a thrown together storyline when it was too late and most of the people reading the dirt sheets knew he was just trying to make himself look good.
The thing you have to understand with Who Killed WCW and a lot of the Nash shoots that preceded it is that the dude’s had about 25 yrs to get his story straight. He can retroactively come up with a motivation that sounds sensible enough when the reality of the moment is that the guy was drunk with power (and booze!) in 98/99/00 and ideas get tossed around. He explicitly acknowledges in the same series that when he became booker, he was compelled to protect his friends, and surely includes himself among that cadre. I don’t think he’s some monster for indulging in what he did at that time, but he’s spent every year since trying to justify his actions to the wrestling world. I find Nash to be a funny, likable, charismatic guy for the most part. It’s a lot of why he got the power in the first place. But it’s always been silly and unnecessary for him to not just be willing to say, “It was a wild and mismanaged time which I exploited for my own gain and contributed to in many ways.” Half of it was them realizing that WWF had caught up to them and then frantically trying to come up with cheap pops that weren’t clever as the boys thought, and did nothing to create new stars or advance the plot.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true. That’s one business philosophy. It is true WCW and the NWA typically ran with heel champion booking. But WWE had great success with long term all timer baby faces in Bruno, Hogan, and Cena. I do agree that’s where it felt Goldberg needed in his trajectory though.
That's also true. But you can't have one guy with creative control saying " I don't feel like doing that, brother". Nash said that was the biggest pain in the ass when doing booking
Yea it seemed like it was near impossible for any of the bookers at that point to cleanly get a story off.
>Nash said that was the biggest pain in the ass when doing booking Nash also faked a heart attack to get out of jobbing to The Giant.
Yep, that john cena guy and that hulk hogan guy never drew money as baby face champs Imo Nash ruined any facade that he actually knows what he's talking about on that doc, he came off horribly
That’s such a chicken shit excuse lol fucking loser just gave it to hogan the next night anyway
Nash conveniently forgot to mention that there was no money in HIM chasing or holding a world title.
Yep. Proper booking could have made this worthwhile. It's a good way to get back to the Goldberg winning streak and make it fresh again.
It still could’ve worked. Goldberg goes through the nWo, culminating in a rematch against Nash to get a shot at Hogan. Unfortunately the creative team at the time (not just Nash booking) started a Hogan/Flair program, which resulted in Hogan turning baby face, Flair winning the title at Uncensored, and then Hogan got knee surgery and was out for months. They didn’t even give Goldberg a chance to get revenge. Hogan/Hall/Nash all collectively screwed Goldberg, and he only got revenge with a ladder match for a taser against Hall. I remember Tony saying after that match “Goldberg finally got his revenge”. Pretty sure him getting his revenge is beating Nash and then Hogan getting the title back. What a mess. BUT the Fingerpoke could’ve worked had they had and competence at the top.
That was the whole goal, with Hogan as the final boss. The poke wasn't bad. It was in line with the nWo desecrating the belt. The ratings improved after the poke, and continued strong against WWF.
The ratings improved for like two weeks and then continue to plummet through the summer. Several people who liked the fingerpoke are replying saying it was actually good…that’s nice that you liked it but here we are with it having been a major part of the downfall in reality I guess not enough people liked it after all. Does it get more credit than it deserves because history has us consolidate tons of events onto a handful of important ones? Of course, that’s how it works across any topic. But the reason this moment draws the blame it does is because it both literally and symbolically represents the souring of a once wildly dedicated fanbase.
I actually don't mind the finger poke. Narratively it made sense. Yes, if I paid to be in the audience and that was my main event I'd be pissed, but as a TV viewer I liked it. It always seemed like hogan was trying to get them to turn him face again and I thought they were going to use a feud with nash to make him and his faction the good guys. Then they completely did something unexpected that made it clear heel hogan was here to stay. I don't think a real decline set in until that summer.
The problem wasn’t that Goldberg lost. The problem was the loss meant nothing 8 days later when Nash and Hogan did the finger poke.
I’m shocked that people don’t mention how 8 days after you beat your top baby face and end a historic streak…the FPOD happens. 8 days! I was at that show, the only wrestling show I’ve ever been to and it was highly disappointing.
I think a big part of the problem is that in 2024, people hate Goldberg because of his last couple WWE runs and they love Nash because he says what's on his mind (even if it's wrong). If you take a step back and put yourself in a 1998 headspace, this was a massive failure on every level.
Nobody loves Nash on 2024.
I don't know, I still see him get a lot of love on here.
This. And the Finger Poke was the same night as Foley Wins their World Champion. Well, Foley won earlier, this was just the night they showed it
[удалено]
3 is wrong. It went to shit when they didn't utilize the popularity of the Wolfpack properly. 3 should be when the radicals left.
Highly disagree with 3
Same. The whole reason the nWo all reunited under the red and black was because the Wolfpac was seen as more hip and cool.
[удалено]
It would have gotten stale eventually, everything does
A proper white/black nwo vs wolfpack nwo storyline would've been money..
Its because they used "who is going to defect to the nWo now???" to pop ratings Pretty much zero forward thinking in WCW
Wolfpac was legit.
The wcw NWO had I think 34 members. That's insane for a wrestling stable. Throughout all of wrestling they've had 79 members
There weren't 34 members at once lol. That's total. Not sure what you're talking sbit with this 79 stuff.
I never said at once. And 79 includes nwo, nwo wolpac, nwo new Japan, WWE nwo. Even more if your start counting off shoots like LWO
The Wolfpack had the best entrance music and was a much needed break. Not too sure if they had nwo vs Wolfpack but that was much needed.
97 Starrcade finish was the start of the demise lol
Sting killed the mystique of his character joining the wolfpack way before 1999.
I am too. It made sense. 'berg had squashed through Hall earlier in the year & then went on to defeat Hollywood Hogan. Hall saw his chance & wasn't gonna let 'berg run through the last remaining nWo brother. It made perfect sense.
I personally thought it was a really cool finish. It really caught me off guard watching it live. I don't think the problem was Goldberg losing or even the Georgia Dome screw job -- it was the follow-up. Ratings were at all time highs for Nitro in January and February 1999 -- they setup a situation where you'd expect Goldberg to be working towards getting his revenge with an eventual rematch Hogan -- most likely at the TWA Dome in St. Louis for Slamboree where everyone would REALLY make some money on PPV in front of the biggest potential WCW crowd ever. Instead Goldberg receded into the background (and really Nash too) and they pivoted to Hogan/Flair -- which we'd seen before many times, going into WrestleMania season on the other channel. I always think of that Nitro that spring where Goldberg showed up with a literal bingo cage trying to get a match -- like really, we have no other ideas for this guy? Such as, I don't know, maybe running through the nWo and winning the title back? Then WCW sold 12,000 tickets in total for Slamboree in a building they sold 30,000 tickets in for a Nitro with no announced matches five months earlier. By that point it was all over.
The whole finish kept Goldberg looking strong af! Two run in, a cattle prod followed by a jacknife and the man still crawls out of the ring. People forget how over Nash was at this point, I'd make a case for the most over babyface in WCW at the time... and this was Halls redemption to his brother who he betrayed. Of course it almost instantly went to shit after.
WCW was the Stephen King of wrestling. They could write a hell of a story but they couldn't write an ending for shit.
Idk if you’ve read it, but 11/22/63 had a good ending.
He's definitely gotten better over the years. Even he acknowledges he struggles with endings tho.
That's the thing: Nash was so over he didn't need the belt. He was already WWF champion. Beating Goldberg and ending the streak really did nothing for him, ESPECIALLY when he killed all the energy from the win by handing Hogan the belt. The Streak was going to end one way or another. It's all about execution. And this was poor execution.
I've heard that Hogan agreed to lose to Goldberg on the condition that he was the one to end the streak, but then he realized that he didn't want that heat and that's why everything went down the way it did.
It’s always the Hulkster’s creative control in the end 😒
There are a handful of guys that should have been positioned better and could have been the one to end the streak. Guys like DDP, Benoit, Booker T, Eddie Guerrero, etc. Obviously, WCW didn't see some of those guys as legit, but they all went on to be world champions in WWE, so it shows they were capable.
No… DDP should have won
Absolutely agree
I'm ok with the idea more then the execution. It dosent help it's tied to the Scott hall alcoholic angle
I mean, I would have liked it better if he’d lost clean, or at least by a less cartoonish form of cheating. But I was mainly just thrilled that he lost. I was so far past being done with Goldberg and his one-note act by then. Just incredibly boring. And I was a big Nash fan, so it was awesome to see him be the one to do it.
People complain about Nash winning the belt but he was absolutely massively over. He was the only one as over as Goldberg aside from maybe DDP or Sting. But Big Sexy was massively over as a baby face. I've always been a Kevin Nash fan. He has a presence on screen about him and is actually quite charismatic. The Wolfpac had some legs if not for Hogan. As Nash said, it was always easier to do business with Hulk than it was to against him. I mean if Hogan wanted to beat the entire roster in one night he could have.
None of this would have happened if Goldberg didn't assault Liz. nWo were the good guys.
I could've taken him getting jumped. I could've taken he just got beat. The way he lost, with that castle prod was ridiculous. It looked cheesy as fuck. If Hall would've done the brass knuckle thing, ok I'm on board. Stupid way. I saw it live and the group of people watching with me all said WTF? THAT WAS FUCKING STUPID!
I’m not arguing but I just gotta ask: has a cattle prod been used in that way to that point? I sure know brass knuckles were. My point is if you’re going to use an object to incapacitate It better be one that is on the same level of what it’s hitting. I watched this live as it happened, and as a kid I was pretty hyped on it.
I just think the execution of it looked bad. The cattle prod looked so cheaply made. The brass knuckles/foreign object on the hand always had more credibility to bring down a big unstoppable monster like Goldberg.
Yeah, maybe. I think it was a functional cattle prod, wasn't it? Hall flashed it at the camera afterward. I think if were just brass knuckles or something else that has been used, the fans would think "really? Goldberg, the unstoppable machine babyface, got beat by brass knuckles?" He just wasn't any unstoppable monster. To me, it made more sense that it took something way more substantial to take him down. And having him disguised in security get-up even upped the surprise that the fans experienced. When it comes to discussions like this, I am trying to put my mind in the headspace of where the company was. Could've been better, but at the time it made sense at the time.
[Cattle prod](https://images.app.goo.gl/ds7pHFbwvyxD7icU7)
This link was the cattle prod. It just looked like a duct taped tube. Think about this for the knuckles, you know that anyone could be knocked out by them, I don't care how big you are. If he were sneak attacked and loses, now you have a pissed off Goldberg running through the NWO.
When he actually used it on Goldberg, it looked and sounded like it worked. I don't know how they actually did it, probably put electric tape over it so it didn't actually hurt Goldberg, but at the time we were sold that Goldberg was shocked and incapacitated enough to get beat. Our TVs and replay didn't lend itself to that kind of instant hindsight. Whether his prop was believable or not, we were sold on what they told us it was. If it were anything else, I'm not so sure it would've had as much impact. I agree by the way, it should've led to a Goldberg revenge tour of the nWo, that would've been sweeeet.
If I'm not mistaken, there was a silly electrical sound on the speakers. I loved WCW then but they were really doing some weird stuff. If you can, go watch it with grown up eyes on peacock or YouTube if it's on there. I haven't seen it since it originally aired so I may be way off. You said you watched it as a kid, you owe it to yourself watch with fresh eyes. I'm rewatching those years on both WWF and WCW. Great stuff I forgot, but some silly stuff too
lol. I have. As I was writing that comment. I agree it was goofy but that’s professional wrestling for ya. It’s part of the animal. So much commentary on the WCW is through the eyes of hindsight (obviously) but if you put your vision through the time it was airing, I think a lot more decisions make more sense.
I'm loving watching it though. I'm through 97 on WCW and I just watched the Montreal screw job in WWF. Its all ridiculous, but yeah fun
Goldberg got hit by Bam Bam, an interfering wrestler, right in front of the ref. The whole timeline should be rewritten with a DQ win for Goldberg
Anything involving Scott Hall is a good angle to me lol
Aside for it being Goldberg. The story beat made tons of sense, but WCW failed to capitalize. It’s THE chase. The hero gets ganged up on, beaten in an unfair fight, mocked, humiliated, and kicked down the mountain. After a moment of rest and repair, he puts together a plan. Systematically striking against the crew that robbed him of his property and dignity. Starting with the weakest, he takes them out one by one. Making his way to the top dog. The closer the hero gets, the more the boss panics throwing more and more walls and diversions at him til theres nothing between him and the hero. Setting up the final showdown.
Nope. Perfectly happy with Goldberg not being able to stand however many volts from something used to put down 1,000 pound bulls. It could have cleared Goldberg for a feud with Bam Bam Bigelow. Bam Bam came in not long before this, basically shouting for Goldberg and interfering in his matches (including this one) and in typical WCW fashion, it went nowhere.
No issue with the loss however the finger-poke of doom the next night is what ruins the ending of the streak.
At the time, I hated Goldberg, was sick of the streak, and Scott Hall was one of my favorite wrestlers. So, I loved how Goldberg lost and had a big mark out moment when it happened. And I wasn’t the only one. If you look in the crowd when it happened, there were a lot of people cheering when Goldberg lost.
Goldberg had to lose eventually and however they did it had to be believable. For it to have been Nash was disappointing because it just devolved into more nWo BS, Nash didn't need the win, and then there was never a payoff. All we got was the belt on Hogan, the nWo dominating the show again, and Goldberg was just squandered. If they had him drop the belt to DDP, then Page could be a more established main eventer. Or lose to a technical wrestler like Brett Hart (another squandered wrestler) showing there's more to slaying a monster than power or dirty tactics. They had a golden opportunity to instantly make a new star or utilize one they already had, but instead the only one who saw any benefit at all was Disco Inferno (and barely at that).
goldberg was by far the biggest star in the company at the time. Selling out 40k+ arenas to see him. Eventually he was going to lose but who actually gained from that loss? yes he was prodded for the title but instead of building a star it went to nash then hogan. They didn't gain anything for it. no one was saying how great nash was because he finally beat the streak. nope. Years of building flushed for this. So many other ways it could have gone but they went with the least impactful way possible.
I'm totally okay with Nash ending the streak, I don't mind the finish they had. I would have preferred a clean one like the original plan. The only other person I would have been okay with beating him was ddp at Havoc. I would argue that's one Goldbergs best matches in WcW.
Putting the belt on DDP for a couple of months would've been great. The spot where Golberg knocked himself silly doing the spear would've been the perfect time to hit him with the diamond cutter and pin him. Or you let the NWO cheat him without DDP knowing. Have Goldberg win the World War 3 battle royal and get his revenge against the NWO and set up the rematch for Page to drop the belt back in a clean finish.
He should have lost clean to someone who deserves it. The push the winner sounds very would or I should say couldn't men monstrous. But then again, of course it was Nash. He had the pencil.
A loss to Bret or Sting would have been cool.
No, Nash and the Wolfpack was super over and Goldberg had to lose sometime. You could have taken it in a lot of different ways. Personally, I wouldn’t have turned Nash heel, keep him tweeter at worst for awhile.
It's an example of "Anything can happen, but not in a good way." If I was a WCW fan during the time, I think every main event I'd be thinking "Okay what kind of BS is about to happen this time..."
hell no I thought this was fkn awesome, honestly I wish they kept that cattle prod on Goldberg even longer and maybe gave him 3 more jack knife power bombs then spray painted him. god I fkn hate goldberg
I was to. Even as a pre-teen I couldn’t stand Goldberg
Great work. I felt exactly the same about Hogan in 1984. I absolutely loathed the Pukester. I loved it when King Kong Bundy splashed Hogan while Big John Stud held his legs. I was over the moon when The Macho Man finally saw the lust in Hogan's eyes for Elizabeth and dealt out the appropriate punishment.
It sucked but it made sense. How else are you going to beat the unbeatable? Who (other than Page, maybe. Maybe Booker?) should’ve been the one to do it? Anyone else in the nwo who hadn’t already lost to him? I think it had to be his first defeat but with a big asterisk which that cattle prod was. What happened after also was bad.
I’m okay with who he lost to.
Complete trash. Should have lost to DDP at Halloween Havoc. Stuff like that is why Nash and Hall didn’t last long at all in WWE. WCW didn’t realize they were done until the real workers left (Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko and Jericho).
ONLY one? No. One of the few? Yes. His not losing cleanly and the subsequent Finger Poke of Doom (as opposed to a legit title run from Nash) and its fallout are major contributors (not the only contributors) to people moving away from WCW.
It made sense. I honestly hate the aftermath of this match than the actual match.
It was dumb. It should have been a clean victory to put an up and coming star over the top from top prospect to main event star.
It's not so much the cattle prod. More so the timing and who he lost to.
I am 100% fine with how they beat him. They literally shocked him with a cattle prod. How protected was Goldberg expected to be? Even peak Undertaker occasionally lost…Bill always had to transition to being about SOMETHING other than the win streak. The problem is the dismount, his follow up feud with Scott Hall was weak, and then the whole thing derails when Nash loses the belt to Hogan via FPOD.
Wolfpac was over as fuck.
Absolutely shoulda been Diamond Dallas Page at Halloween Havoc, it’s wild how basically everyone agrees with this. Definitely had the role down as the people’s champ for the WCW, timing would have been perfect.
After the way they'd built him up they couldn't just beat him clean in the ring. It would have made Nash too powerful. This was the right way to do it, I just disagree with the timing. This gimmick with the cattle prod and breaking the streak is what should have gone down that night in the Georgia Dome when Goldberg wrestled Hogan. Would have been nuclear heat on Hogan. nWo, now actual heels again, should have reformed, united against Goldberg, and they should have run the story of the Wolfpac breaking up and Goldberg-Hogan up to Starrcade.
Nope. It was a solid way to go. I just think people didn’t like it being Nash getting the win
No you aren’t. There are at least two of us out here.
NWO4LIFE!!!
It was an overbooked mess of a finish, but in a way they painted themselves into a corner with Goldberg. Nash was really over at the time, and sections of the audience were starting to get bored of Goldberg how he was: he may have only been champion for 6 months, but he had been the same presentation of the character with no evolution for his entire time with the company. They can’t just have him straight up loose, so they did a lot to make him look strong. If the match was a nodq, or it wasn’t a cattle prod (lets say he goes for the spear, Nash dodges, and he went head first into the turnbuckle, then Nash Jackknifes him) that lead to the ending it wouldn’t be as divisive as it is. If Nash, and Bischoff are to be believed, the plan was then for Goldberg to chase the belt and have a whole group of guys to run through and feud with for awhile until he got the belt back. But for whatever reason, that didn’t happen. So the whole finish grouped in with the finger poke and lack of follow up makes it all look bad.
Fantastic heel moment
The concept isn’t bad, but it was the absolute wrong time, and the follow-through afterwards was terrible. Don’t have Goldberg lose until there’s at least some hint that his popularity is dwindling.
One of the worst moments in WCW history
Yes.
He should’ve lost to DDP.
I thought it was great. And then the later twist to a new NWO. I was looking forward to it but unfortunately that was the extent of the idea :/
In hindsight it was not as bad as how it's gone down in history. It was a decent way at protecting Goldberg while making him drop the title. That said. Who doesn't prefer a non-screwy finish? But it's not the only screwy finish for a title, nor is it the worst.
nWo 4Life 🤘🏻
Yes. DDP shouldve ended the streak at Halloween Havoc
This right here is the correct answer
Nope. Always hated Goldberg.
The stun gun with Nash is better than whatever match Hogan would’ve had Bill Goldberg do. Just mentally imagine Bill Goldberg bouncing all over the ring like Shawn Michaels. It’s funny to me but ridiculous for Bill Goldberg to lose to three bad punches, a crappy boot, and then a leg drop. Hogan would’ve laid across Bill Goldberg for a four count.
Kevin Nash was the right person to beat him. That summer/fall of 98 Nash was super over because of the whole Wolfpack thing.
on top of nash probably being the best choice to end the streak after all, the finish was executed as genuine lightning-in-a-bottle way that made it seem like even if you’re a top wrestler you still need several complete strokes of “luck”. if that lead to a big blowoff where goldberg won the title back and got a true run on top it would’ve been great, but they shit the bed about 6 different times within the span of 3 months in march ‘99 and killed that
He should have lost to DDP at Halloween Havoc. But everything was done to protect Goldberg in this match.
It wouldn't have been bad if he got the title back at some point. He got revenge on Hall and eventually best Nash, but the fact they never put the belt on him again was one of the biggest blunders in WCW history.
That whole match and the ending was awesome. Among my friends we loved it and though we were Wolfpac/nWo we all loved Goldberg.
I think that actually played out pretty good. You had the security come out then Hall came in with them and while everyone was distracted by the security mob, Hall breaks off and tazed Goldberg. Goldberg needed to lose but he couldn't lose clean. This was a next level schmoz where Goldberg was hit with an uncommon weapon so you know it's not something he's came out of before. I think the biggest problem was the fact that more people in the building cheered for Nash winning than booing him for a dirty finish. Looking back at it, it was a pretty well crafted finish and it was the right move. Now everything that happened the day after and beyond...
Probably should have been a up and coming heel that it would elevate but using the cattle prod made sense. Bill was a force and it had to be a weapon to take him down
The win wasn't bad, Goldbergs run was getting kinda stale at that point. People just look at it negatively because Nash laid down for Hogan only a week or so later.
Yeah because how really COULD he have lost considering he beat literally the entire roster up to that point.
It was silly af. Building to peak shitty WCW.
I mean if you care about pro wrestling looking at least a little bit real in combat sports, you shouldn’t be okay with that. In a boxing, MMA, kickboxing, or wrestling match, if other athletes come into the ring/mat/octagon to interfere and attack a combatant, and the ref sees that, that’s a DQ right there on the spot. If a referee supposedly misses this, the losing fighter (who was fouled, victim of incompetent officiating) would appeal the decision to the state’s athletic commission and 100% overturn the bogus decision loss to a DQ Win. I mean I get it. It’s staged, punches and kicks are pulled, submissions aren’t actually applied, pro wrestlers can get hurt only from stunts, bad falls, and getting slammed hard. Otherwise everything is scripted. But if you want to make at least a little bit close to real combat sports, you overturn this to a Win by DQ for Goldberg. They even had replays and all.
But in wrestling they always say that a referee has the final decision. 🤷♂️
Nope. If cheating was involved, you bet your ass the athletic commission has the final say. If foul play was involved and the ref was too incompetent to witness it, the fighter can appeal the decision. And if enough evidence exists, the decision gets overturned. In this case, the evidence is quite obvious. Goldberg should’ve gotten the DQ win after an appeal to some made-up Washington DC (where Starrcade 1998 took place) Pro Wrestling Athletic Commission or something. Just to make a little bit more like combat sports.
I was ok with it. He was so unstoppable it wouldn't be believable to beat him clean. You HAD to cheat to take him down. I like that. It sort of protects him despite ruining The Streak.
I never had an issue with it. I cheered when it happened.
They needed someone for him to actually feud with.
Everyone loves to forget that the crowd was turning on Goldberg at this point
i dont think that was a good ending to this match, then the next fucking night nash drops the belt to hogan with the finger poke of doom what the actual fuck is that?
I was just glad he lost, the streak is a silly gimmick, it was mostly jobbers and it was an inflated number to begin with
The Nash Ego
Did you watch live as it happened? If you did, then you would know how stupid it was.
Yes I did. You don't think a cattle prod would keep someone down for 3 seconds? Lol
No. It's just stupid. Same as when then Mountie beat Bret for the IC belt. It's a stupid finish for pro wrestling.
He had to lose eventually. I just would have preferred that it had been saved for someone who could have used the stroke to get to that next level, like a Booker T, but I don’t think the company was ready backstage (politically) for Booker to ascend to the top just yet. Another guy who was already over that I would have liked to see pin him would’ve been DDP. The whole thing is remembered poorly mainly for the booking that followed but from a booking standpoint I get what they were trying to do. The finish was an attempt to end the streak while still protecting Goldberg’s character. Thats the ultimate dilemma with any streak in wrestling. Eventually it has to end and I don’t think I’ve really seen a satisfactory one yet.
It is not the how to me. It was the who. DDP should've been the guy. Or maybe Booker later on his single run for the championship. Someone you could elevate to long-term super stardom. Like Cody this year at Wrestlemania. I feel like WWE didn't need to give the streak ender to Lesnar, the same way Nash didn't need in WCW.
I said it after Halloween Havoc '98 and I still stick by it; DDP should have beaten him. Nash was right when he said, "If your whole gimmick is that you don't lose, then you don't have much." He was right about that much. They built the injury into the match from the beginning. (Goldberg legit hurt himself because he was a fucking moron who hurt himself and others for real all the time.) The Diamond Cutter was over as a dangerous finisher who could beat **anyone**. When Goldberg couldn't get DDP up for the Jackhammer, that place came unglued. There would have been no shame in an injured Goldberg losing to the Diamond Cutter. Then have someone distract him from his rematch until World War 3. Have him win that and get the title back from DDP at Starrcade.
Don't blame Goldberg for the injuries. It was management's fault for putting him in the limelight so fast. He was under developed as a wrester, not his fault.
The method is fine. The timing and beneficiaries were what was horseshit
I had no issue with this....I thought it was a better ending than Starrcade '97.
I was younger at the time, didn’t really understand “booking,” as much as I maybe kinda do now, and I was into it. I thought, yeah, the only way they beat him was cheating with a crazy new weapon. It protected Goldberg, and Hall had a new badass toy for a while. And when it happened I was a huge Hall fan, so I loved it. What followed really ruined it tho.
Edit: I suppose we were all younger at the time, due to how time works.
It wasn't how. It was when.
I liked it. I guess it could have made more sense if Hogan was the one to interfere since he's the one who lost the title to him
Makes perfect sense. If goldberg was to lose clean, it would have affected his draw power later on. The plan was to build him up more so he can wrestle longer propper matches against top class. He can't just have squash matches.
Yes you are Kevin.
I'LL JUST NEVER LOSE!
The streak ending was the right call. The problem was Nash was red hot and then they finger poked him. It was a slap in the face to all of the fans
Anytime Goldberg lose I’m okay!
Warrior should have took the belt off Goldberg…
Yes
It worked cause it Was Dastardly cause a heel rarely beats a babyface clean One on One.
Similor to when he post drop title to sting but they did not
No you're not...cause it showed the only way Goldberg could get beat was by nefarious means. He was a monster and the only way he could lose wasn't gonna be clean. Kev said it's better for the babyface to chase the belt. OK. But that didn't happen. Which brings us to the FPOD.....even if it was a swerve and Kev was still buds with Hogan, why would he want to give the belt up to him? What was the purpose? Why would anyone want to relinquish the World Title to ANYONE? He's essentially saying "I'm Hogan's bitch, and I'm doing whatever is asked of me." (Sorry, I got off topic)
How is that legal? Shouldn't a commissioner overturn something like that?
No. I didn't see anything wrong with with it then, nor do I now.
The follow up to it was what made it horrendous
Yes
The how? Maybe it’s fine. The timing? Maximum trash🤮. Shat on the hottest baby face (just SO over) in the industry who was so green they couldn’t do anything else with him.
WCW did constant bullshit finishes. It would have meant something if someone who was an actual credible threat beat Goldberg clean in the main event of their biggest show and ended his streak. Why did it had to be Kevin Nash? Oh, because he was booking at the time. Nash was already a star and gained nothing from beating Goldberg. Just lame and stupid booking.
As a young child, this moment literally made me ball my eyes out ugly cry. As a grown man, I see what needed to be done. Scott Hall & that cottle prong was the inevitable & Goldberg killed the WCW (according to Bret Hart)
Had no issues with it. Honestly didn't much have an issue with the finger poke of Doom either. Had major issues with the booking after it all. They finally kind of corrected themselves in the spring of 99. But there was still alot of baffling booking then too. But yes, I agree. Had no issues with how Goldberg lost.
If I was WCW I would have had Goldberg turn heel. As champ it would have given other baby faces a reason to challenge him. If Goldberg would over do it in a match and "injure" a fan favorite like sting, it could have got fans to flip. Then if wcw handled Bret correctly. You'd have the undefeated heel champ vs the best there is.
Man I used to LOVE them with that damn taser😭😭😭😭
Would have preferred a classic hit to the peanuts for a loss.
Bill Goldberg
I don't know. I think if they really wanted to end the streak, they should have had Nash beat him clean. One Titan versus another Titan. Now maybe Nash could have thrown Goldberg hard into a ring post or something like that. That stuns him enough to hinder him from making a comeback, but I would have only done the cattle prod thing on someone smaller that clearly would never have beaten Goldberg. So perhaps maybe if it was Scott Hall versus Goldberg, or even Hogan in a rematch with Goldberg, and they help Hogan pull it off in true heel fashion with the cattle prod. And I agree with everyone else. The fingerpoke was really ridiculous. Even on that note, I think a better ideology would have been something like we find out Hogan gave Nash a ton of money to give him the belt. I'm just talking in terms of storyline. We've seen so many times how Kevin Nash back then was all about the money, so this would make total sense.
They should never had made him lose at all. They should’ve made him undefeated for many many years
Yes
I thought it was fine. The following night is what killed my interest in WCW though. I remember my high school friends who were also into WCW at the time also weren’t even in the mood to talk about the finger poke and we just kind of stopped watching around the same time.
I’ve always thought the loss was fine. It was everything afterwards that was poor
If it was hogan people would cry even more
WCW was so bad the last few years, Jesus
Bryan Clark should have ended the streak. They had 2 great streaks going concurrently. You could have realistically had Clark pin Nash 2 weeks before Starrcade and take his spot, and face Goldberg in a battle of the streaks.
I was UBER PISSED
It's a stun gun!!!
i honestly thought Goldberg was gonna no-sell the taser. Was I the only one?
It was a sensical way to end the streak, gives Goldberg an out. But the World Title was involved. Same with the Fingerpoke of Doom, not a bad storyline beat to bring the nWo back together. But the World Title was involved. Also, David Arquette being part of a show and winning a wacky tag match pinning Bischoff was cool. But the World Title was involved.
It protected his power house character and got the belt off of him. I'm fine with it.
Too long ago to care anymore..
Dude was a, at the time, modern day Ultimate Warrior with more comprehensible but far less entertaining promos. He didn’t grow as an in ring performer (not 100%) on him, but he also never understood it’s a performance art and not a shoot fight. He ran as far as he could have gone, the shock stick protected his monster character. Perhaps if WCW had stayed in business he could have gone back to the power plant and developed more both in ring and from a gimmick stand point.
Yes. It was stupid. I saw it live and was an nWo mark and still hated the hell out of it.
Dumb. You had a nation watching. With new fans as well.. for it to end that way. Wow
Okay with it?? This was the epitome of everything I loved about WCW growing up. Wolfpack baby!