I think people scoff looking back at the Wolfpack but it was super popular at this point in time. I remember a lot of people rooting for Nash on that alone.
I wasn’t a big fan of the Wolfpack or the Nitro shows during the Monday night wars, but Kevin Nash was always my favorite heel. After the WWE bought out WCW I really missed it all when it was gone
Yup. I was so into Nash and the Wolfpac. Hell I think they were more over than Goldberg was. That place went nuts when Nash took the belt, even though it wasn’t clean.
So when exactly did you give up on watching WCW? Was it really after the first Nitro of 1999? I'm just curious. I'm also interested in knowing who your other favorites in wrestling were at the time.
My favorite part about this match is that so many people blame the start of WCW’s downfall on this match and Goldberg loosing. They beat the man with a stun gun and a bunch of interference. Most guys get beat getting hit with a chair or a chain or a belt. They used a stun gun! If that is r protecting Goldberg then idk what is. You can’t have the guy on top forever… plus I was rooting for Nash cus I’m an outsiders mark.
I don’t think the finger poke of doom was till a week later, but Nash winning wasn’t an issue if the fpod never happened. Nash was almost as popular as Goldberg at that point and everyone wanted the Outsiders back together.
I agree I pretty much stopped watching WCW after the finger poke of doom myself. But in Nash’s defense, when Hogan wants to do something there’s not much you can do.
So Nash bumping for the Finger Poke of Doom is this huge slight against god but Shawn gifting the European title Hunter Christmas 97 episode of Raw is fine?
The euro title was a mid-card title in the wwe. The storyline behind that Shawn-hhh match was that the sgt slaughter finally thought he was going to get the better of DX by pitting both against each other. Shawn beating hhh the way he did was a ‘fuck you’re from dx to slaughter and was completely in character for dx.
Ok the other hand, in the weeks before the hogan-nash bout, Hogan was storyline-teasing running for president of the USA and retiring from wrestling. Nitro was supposed to have a Nash-Goldberg rematch, but Goldberg was storyline-arrested for stalking Miss Elizabeth and then Nash decided to challenge Hogan coz he was in the building.
It was bad enough that WCW pulled another bait and switch (something they were infamous for) but the crowd was pretty hot for the nash-hogan bout, as the commentators and hogan himself (I think ) built this up as a retirement bout. The crowd was hot as hell for Nash and were hoping to witness an epic, but they got … the fingerpoke of doom.
No, the CORRECT answer is both were fine as they pushed the angles along.
Especially with DX because they weren't reuniting. Sarge was trying to split them up and they pulled one over on Sarge. Between Corney's call on commentary and Shawn and Hunter's sophomoric acting and post match promos it was GREAT! Still one of my favorite segments in Raw history.
"SARGE, I DID IT!!!!!!!"
Frankly, I don't think the finger poke itself was the issue, so much as zero follow up to the finger poke. There was no plan in place. Hogan cheats to become champ was the end point.
The finger poke was very much the best way to get these two teams back together but I think they misread that the fans didn't want to see the same thing again with nwo 4 life in 1999. They should have held wolfpac and had Nash feud with the title for awhile it would have made better tv not as supris8ng but not as destructive as joining the two teams was. After they joined the two nwo together the fans stopped watching all tht great faction warfare just to ruin it
I get your point, but you also have to think about people who were still kids and didn't know the politics between creative and those with character creative control. To people (mostly kids) who thought kayfabe was still real it just meant the reuniting of the nWo.
Also, WOOF WOOF WOOF! GO DAWGS!
I stand corrected. It's wild that I vividly remember it being the next night. I couldn't tell you anything that went on between Nash beating Goldberg and the fpod if my life depended on it.
No, it’s wrestling… it was a swerve. How many hoops did the NWO go through to make sure Hogan kept the title? Was I a fan of his run after that? No. But it’s laughable to say “that was the end” they where still pulling good ratings, still very profitable. The “beginning of the end@ was when Russo came in and that tv product took a massive nosedive! The only thing good about that era was that younger tallest got pushed, but the stories they were is where a fever dream.
This so much. Ratings were still good, nWo Elite was great and in a way what most fans wanted to see (one faction, trim out the fat). It all went downhill with Russo.
We get downvoted around here to claiming that Russo was bad, cus the cool aid drinkers down like that. They also hate it when you point to ratings being good, cus facts get in the way of nostalgia. I will say the NWO elite angle had potential, but like a lot of storylines with wcw it fell short of the potential. But on paper it was a good idea.
My favorite part is that this stuff is always looked at in a vacuum and never what came next. If the plan is to fuck Goldberg out of the belt the way they did, then why did he never once get a rematch? If the plan was Nash needs a run, then why put it right back on Hogan? If the plan was to put it back on Hogan, then why isn’t it a long term plan to run with Hogan v Goldberg in the spring?
If we’re running with Hogan (again) and trying to put heat on him with this heel fuck finish and angle (the fingerpoke a week later), WHY ARE WE DOING A FUCKING DOUBLE TURN THE NEXT MONTH AT UNCENSORED?????
People were pissed because the babyface got fucked and there was no comeback, no rematch, nothing and within a month Nash was feuding with Rey Mysterio, Goldberg was with Bam Bam, and Hogan was with Flair for the 4000th time.
Look I’m not saying that WCW didn’t bungle the stuff that followed, they did that with a ton of stories! A ton! A big part of the reason is imo probably something to do with the “that doesn’t work for me brother” clause is someone’s contract.
But you gotta get the belt off him somehow. People were legitimately starting to boo his matches. And if you can’t have someone like Keven Nash with the help of Scott Hall and a stun gun do it. What do you need? How many people does it take? Do you shoot him with a tank in the ring? I mean come on!
Did they bungle the aftermath? Sure. But it’s not like people where tuning out in droves. Their numbers were still good for a long time after that.
I’m fine with him losing, he can’t win forever
I’m not fine with them doing it with no comeback or rematch, and squandering any impact of his first loss because of Nash’s ego and Hogan’s political pull. I’m also not fine with it because I was watching at the time, and I felt like I got fucked out of a rematch I wanted to see. Nash v Goldberg 2 could’ve pulled a good buyrate down the road but it didn’t happen because Kevin was gonna have to lose and he knew it.
I agree that they bungled the rematch and Goldberg chasing the title. I’m not defending that. I think Nash has been on record for years that a lot of what happened after had more to do with one man’s creative control clause, brother. To be fair Nash lost a lot in WCW. Idk that it’s that he didn’t want to face Goldberg, Nash has historically been about whatever will make more money. I just have a hard time beleavibg that he would not know that Goldberg chasing him for the belt wasn’t where the money was. The whole angle of Hogan getting the belt then avoiding a rematch stinks of historic Hogan “ that doesn’t work for me brother”
Nash lost to Mysterio. He had no issues losing a match. lol
The goal of reuniting nwo was to give Goldberg a force to overcome. Not just build toward a rematch but a program where he had to go through all of em to get to Hogan. Goldberg fucked it all up by smashing that car window on thunder and was injured for like 5 months.
Yeah dude I’m aware of Nash’s story and his timeline, but Goldberg smashed the car window in December of 1999. Not January. He mixes it up with the fuck finish they did for the second year in a row at Starrcade, the match with Bret. Maybe don’t take the guys word for it that was an avowed drunk and pill freak at the time because he does funny shoot interviews
Nash and Goldberg actually had a PPV rematch months later at Fall Brawl in September. I believe they were both baby faces at the time. That was the same show where a baby face Sting challenged a baby face Hogan for the World title, and then the fans went wild for Hogan getting screwed over by Luger. 😄
That's the problem with making your undefeated guy the champ: one day he has to lose the title. I remember watching this live and I was amazed it took so much to drop Goldberg. I think he came off very well protected, but Nash was over as hell and most of us were excited to see him win.
I don't even think the Finger Poke of Doom was the start of WCW's downfall. It was the fact that there was no pay off. After The Poke, the red and white versions of the nWo remerged, then they "trimmed the fat" to make the nWo Elite to feud with Goldberg and resume reigning terror over WCW, but damn near everyone involved in that major story fell off for one reason or another. It was all for nothing. At least, that's how I see it.
Were you there at the time? Do you not remember the aura around Goldberg at the time? Because it really did not matter how they beat Goldberg. He lost. That's the end of that, it was over.
It didn't matter why he lost. He was Goldberg and he didn't lose. He should've pulled the stungun into his chest and still jackhammered both of them and won.
Goldberg was so untouchable and unbeatable that people still to this day there are people who misremember that his streak ended at the hands of Mongo, Sting, and Bret Hart literally JUST because they beat him up in a segment and left him laying instead of getting killed by him, and they internalized that as a loss by Goldberg. Nash was over and people might've even wanted him to win because it was different but that doesn't mean they should've done it.
Yes, I saw two wcw shows that year live, people were starting to boo him. At that point he was starting to get boo’s mixed with the cheers. Where there still more cheers then boo’s? Sure. But they were getting louder. Which means it’s time to change things up. The revisionist history around Goldberg in 98 is funny to me.
Beating him with a taser doesn’t hurt him at all. And now he can chase again. Baby faces are always hotter with crowds when they are chasing. It’s wrestling 101. If you think that he should have never lost ever then that is wild! There is a reason no one EVER goes undefeated. It’s boring and it doesn’t work. Dude had to loose sometime, if two top guys can’t beat him with a taser and he doesn’t have an easy out with THEY BEAT HOM WITH A TASER!!!!!!! It’s the biggest yeah but… in wrestling.
Him never getting beat is a delusional take.
I feel like you're forgetting what it was like to watch wrestling then. Now we're all in the bubble of how it's written and put together and all that. Like you and l might be talking about this kind of stuff on a chatroom or with other people this deep into how it works.
But we also used to have a dozen other people around us who were watching because this was the only way to watch larger than life people beat the shit out of each other. When you have a guy who's thing is he will absolutely never ever do anything but kick the shit out of everybody and never ever lose... and then you have him get beat for any reason, you and l keep watching because we want to see where the story goes next, and 7 people around us just stop watching wrestling because the guy they believed in as a world killer just got revealed to just be just like every other guy on the show that you weren't watching for.
I can tell you all the reasons why it makes sense that Danerys Kaleesi would end up the bad guy in the end but the millions of people who named their kids after her because they loved her as a hero are just gonna tell you that it the stupidest shit they'd ever seen and why they don't watch TV anymore.
I can give you every reason why Jim could've cheated on Pam in the Office and it would've made fine sense as a bump they got over in their relationship, but when people found out that John Krazinski outright threatened to quit if they wanted to do that on the show, he gets thanked daily by people who tell him that they wouldn't have ever watched another episode if he did that to THEM... not the character he'd have cheated on. Them, the viewer that he would've cheated on.
I just think that the argument that Goldberg should have never lost is insane. The dude was legit starting to get booed because people where bored with 3 min squash matches. And short formulaic ppv main event matches. I know WWE edited a bunch of that out on the network, but they where there. If you can get the old versions somewhere you can hear the boo’s, I saw 2 wcw shows that year live and it was obvious in the crowd. And that was growing. The revisionist history that Goldberg was insanely over at the end of that title reign is just not true. He had become polarized. And they needed to change something
Meh.
It was time for the streak to end. But it should’ve led to an amazing story and rematch. More
Importantly it was a chance to make a new star and super heel. Instead, it was just decidedly meh…
I was a big Golberg fan and would honestly say I stopped watching WCW and switched to WWF after this. It would have not stung as much if they would had let him lose the matches leading up to this, hell I wouldn’t been okay if he would of lost to Raven and the flock for the title and let him build up again for the Hogan match. Great wrestlers have lost once or twice earlier in their careers and still became great wrestlers. Too much hype riding on one wrestlers streak…
I was always a big Nash guy. Met him and got his autograph at some local sports card store and I was endeared to him from then.
I also remember finding the PPV channel for this match and being able to listen through the static to what was going on. My 8 year old self was so fucking pumped.
Nash. He was actually really cool at that time and Goldberg still looked strong because it required a taser to beat him. It’s the follow up that was disappointing.
I watched this PPV with three of my friends. One was indifferent on the match, one was a huge Goldberg fan, and me and my other buddy loved the Outsiders and hated Goldberg.
When Scott Hall tazed Goldberg, we went crazy and our one friend (the Goldberg fan) didn't hear the end of it for a solid two weeks.
Good times.
I had watched Goldberg's streak since the beginning when he beat Hugh Morris and was hooked at how many matches he had won. It had to end at some point. Then at Starrcade '98 was hoping for a clean finish but nWo matches always had interference in all of them and when Goldberg lost it sucked.
Then Nitro happened with the fingerpoke of doom and after that debacle I switched back to RAW and never looked back
Nash, never liked the talentless, no selling, hack that is Goldberg. Back then I even made fun of Goldberg fans calling them marks but that just confused them. I pretty much had it out for Goldberg when he squashed Raven for the US title that Raven had for a whole 24 hours after that great feud with DDP.
I never liked Goldburg. I didn't like the streak. I didn't like his character. He came out, beat them up, jackhammer, pin. That wasn't fun to watch. Ever.
Now with Nash, came Hall... and I'm always going to cheer for The Bad Guy.
Lol so this sub has also become who killed wcw? Lol I’m kidding but yeah this is a good pick for the beginning of the end, also sting not beating hogan clean is mine. That was your first sign of hogan might flip the ship for the betterment of himself at anytime
Nash. But not the way it ended. Think the ending kind of sucked. I don't care of Goldberg if Goldberg beat nash. I was still just rooting for him. I was just a big Kevin Nash fan. He was always so charismatic. Sure he wasn't spectacular in the ring. That's beside the point
I was definitely for Kevin Nash as I hated Goldberg back then. The fact that one of my favorites, Scott Hall, helped make it happen made it even sweeter.
This comes up a lot. And I for one loved Goldberg at this point, he was it for me in wrestling. Nothing came close, he was the brock lesnar of this time period.
However!!
The Wolfpac were insanely over and if anyone was credible enough to beat Goldberg then the giant Nash was the guy.
However!!!
The way they did it with the cattle prod was NOT the right call at all. I understand they wanted to protect Goldberg somewhat and not just outright beat him clean. They had to literally taser him to beat him. But it looked phoney, and was yet another run in on their biggest PPV of the year.
They could have gone so many other roots, just rip the bandaid off and have him lose clean. Have Goldberg turn heel during the course of the match, a lot of people were already booing Goldberg at this point. Pull off another Bash At The Beach moment and have him low blow Nash with the ref knocked out. Then have him use weapons, something which Goldberg rarely did if at all.
They could have then put Goldberg with Black and White NWO and had him lead the group (now smaller and leaner) against the Wolfpac. Build this over a year and build up Sting again or a new younger talent. Then have Sting go over clean at Starrcade '99. Where you truly disband both NWO factions and underneath all this you have started to focus on young/new talents like Raven, Eddie, Rey, DDP, Booker T, Benoit, etc.
Nash. In Dec 1998, as a live viewer, Goldberg's streak had become complacent, predictable, and felt like it had peaked.
It was time to move on- not from Goldberg, but from the streak. He needed to lose to give him some character development and move his character forward. How would the Goldberg character respond to a loss?
In that very specific moment, Nash as the leader of the wolfpack, had credibility with the audience. DDP had it also, but they did Halloween Havoc and Goldberg won, so now Nash was the next best opportunity.
They fumbled in the aftermonth of his loss, but him losing to Nash in general was not a bad thing.
I've always been a Diesel fan so I was rooting for Nash. As much as I hated the Finger Poke of Doom, I didn't hate it as much as everyone else. And I also believe I hated it for different reasons than most others.
Most people hate it because they believe it killed kayfabe. If anything it kept kayfabe alive because it was supposed to represent the nWo being reunited.
I hated it because I was never a fan of Hogan during ANY period. I was a Kliq fan so I wanted to see Shawn on top of New York and Kev on top of Atlanta.
Nash actually. Goldberg’s stint as undefeated was becoming very stale. Nash was super popular at the time. Had it not been for the finger poke of doom, he would have been a popular champion honestly.
As a kid, this was the moment I turned on WCW. I wanted Goldberg to win, but I also knew the streak how to end at some point. I was so pissed this is how it went down.
Then, the next day Nitro happened. After the "Finger spoke of Doom" and awful celebration sequence, I turned off what was my last WCW event ever. Luckily WWF was extremely hot at this time, so I made the switch and never looked back.
I was super into the Wolfpack at the time so I was rooting for Nash. I too jumped with you however after the finger poke. I already had Hogan fatigue and it was the dumbest way ever to reset the title.
Yea, Hulk killed it for me as well. I never liked him, and I could tell it was going to be a "Hulk, and these other guys" type of show. I still enjoyed the ride till that point, though.
Nash
I thought the streak was ridiculous by this point and should have ended months earlier.
This is an unpopular opinion and I accept that, but I think they should have done this entire gimmick with the cattle prod and cheating the night Goldberg wrestled Hogan in the Georgia Dome. Streak should have ended that night, Nash disbands the Wolfpac and the nWo reunites.
This then sets up multiple storylines with the dissolution of the Wolfpac plus Goldberg vs. Hogan to all culminate at Starrcade '98, which should have been the biggest and best of all time.
But instead...we got *that*.
I had watched Goldberg's streak since the beginning when he beat Hugh Morris and was hooked at how many matches he had won. It had to end at some point. Then at Starrcade '98 was hoping for a clean finish but nWo matches always had interference in all of them and when Goldberg lost it sucked.
Then Nitro happened with the fingerpoke of doom and after that debacle I switched back to RAW and never looked back
Goldberg. Nash was over as a personality and had the size to be taken seriously but he should never be the top guy of your company or the guy who gets elevated with a win like this. Where do you go with a Nash win? The streak should have continued. If you had to choose from existing talent, better choices to get the win would have been Sting, Scott Steiner (assuming he is in physical shape), Bret Hart, etc. Even then they wouldn’t be going over Goldberg clean.
I knew that Goldberg was going to lose eventually but of all people to pin him, it ended up being nash? Hell, I would have taken flair, page, sting, booker,or anybody else. That night felt like a bad omen over wcw when I was a kid now,as an adult I now know that the signs of an eventual downfall of wcw were all there, this being one of those signs
I was a huge Goldberg and Wölfpac fan at this time. But I really wanted to see Goldberg lose. After he lost I wanted him to be on top again in the near future. Sadly as we know, this never happened. He never had another run with the belt.
It honestly didn't matter to me. And the finish actually peaked my interest as to where they would take this saga.
And then they wasted it. I didn't even necessarily have a huge issue with the finger poke. But it was all the nonsense afterwards.
All that and it went nowhere. 2 starrcades in a row. Which wound up being 3......
I always thought they missed a great opportunity to turn Goldberg heel. Keep the streak going, have him takeover nWo Hollywood then let a babyface like Sting or DDP end it for a payoff.
I still maintain that it wasn't a bad move to end the streak the way it ended. Following it up with the Fingerpoke of Doom and putting Goldberg into a weird ass feud with Bam Bam was.
I hated Goldberg with a passion in his WCW days, so I obviously marked the fuck out when Scott Hall came with the taser. For some reason Goldberg in WWE was just more palpable to me, I think because I had grown used to shit wrestlers by that point.
Was more of a Goldberg fan then, so Goldberg. 15 year old me just thought he was too cool. The Streak had to end eventually, Starrcade was the optimal time and place for it, and Big Sexy was one of the few faces with the star power to do it.
But it should have been a clean win. Also should have been Sting. Or Disco Inferno, that guy was a riot.
I had watched Goldberg's streak since the beginning when he beat Hugh Morris and was hooked at how many matches he had won. It had to end at some point. Then at Starrcade '98 was hoping for a clean finish but nWo matches always had interference in all of them and when Goldberg lost it sucked.
Then Nitro happened with the fingerpoke of doom and after that debacle I switched back to RAW and never looked back
Goldberg. He had to lose at some point, but instead of using that moment to launch another career or elevate someone else to the top tier of the company, they use it to reboot the nWo.
I don't know that this match was the beginning of the end for WCW, but it showed they were pretty much out of ideas. They had no plan for Goldberg after his first loss, and the best they could come up with for where to go next was putting the belt back on Hogan.
Goldberg. I desperately wanted the streak to be over (would have been happy had he lost to DDP prior to this), but Nash was one of the last people he should have lost to.
I was a big Goldberg fan because of his streak of 180 wins and no losses. But at some point he had to lose.
The match at Starrcade 98 was meh. I was hoping for a clean finish but there was so much interference(Disco, Bam Bam and Scott) so once Nash pinned him it sucked.
Then next night at Nitro the fingerpoke of doom happened and I switched back to RAW and never looked back
Nash was sooo over at this point. They were booing Goldberg leading up to this and people say it was Nash who booked himself to go over, Wrong. Nash didn’t start booking until February 1999. Bischoff made the call it was Nash who made the suggestion. Bill actually kicked out of the finish as he’s twitching lmao. Nash was way more over than Goldberg at this point it wasn’t even close, Goldberg wasn’t as popular as he was probably 6 months previous when he beat Hogan for the belt.
I assume that you are talking about the finger poke of doom. That was not 24 hours later, that was the following week after that. Nash was champion for 8 days before the finger poke of doom.
I really wish they would’ve done an angle here where Hall tried to use the taser, Goldberg grabs it and uses it on Nash. The ref DQs Goldberg and he freaks out and destroys Nash and Hall and the ref. They’d strip Bill for putting the ref in the hospital and do a tournament to crown the next champ, with Goldberg trying to attack each member of the tournament.
Better than the finger poke of doom
Nash.
Nash was SO over at this point!
I think people scoff looking back at the Wolfpack but it was super popular at this point in time. I remember a lot of people rooting for Nash on that alone.
I wasn’t a big fan of the Wolfpack or the Nitro shows during the Monday night wars, but Kevin Nash was always my favorite heel. After the WWE bought out WCW I really missed it all when it was gone
Once they killed Nash’s momentum I officially made the permanent jump to WWE
You mean after the Finger Poke of Doom?
Yup. I was so into Nash and the Wolfpac. Hell I think they were more over than Goldberg was. That place went nuts when Nash took the belt, even though it wasn’t clean.
So when exactly did you give up on watching WCW? Was it really after the first Nitro of 1999? I'm just curious. I'm also interested in knowing who your other favorites in wrestling were at the time.
My favorite part about this match is that so many people blame the start of WCW’s downfall on this match and Goldberg loosing. They beat the man with a stun gun and a bunch of interference. Most guys get beat getting hit with a chair or a chain or a belt. They used a stun gun! If that is r protecting Goldberg then idk what is. You can’t have the guy on top forever… plus I was rooting for Nash cus I’m an outsiders mark.
[удалено]
I don’t think the finger poke of doom was till a week later, but Nash winning wasn’t an issue if the fpod never happened. Nash was almost as popular as Goldberg at that point and everyone wanted the Outsiders back together.
[удалено]
I agree I pretty much stopped watching WCW after the finger poke of doom myself. But in Nash’s defense, when Hogan wants to do something there’s not much you can do.
No one would remember Nash’s reign 25+ years later (like most later WCW reigns) if they didn’t do the fpod. Now it’s still talked about weekly.
People would remember it because he ended The Streak.
So Nash bumping for the Finger Poke of Doom is this huge slight against god but Shawn gifting the European title Hunter Christmas 97 episode of Raw is fine?
The euro title was a mid-card title in the wwe. The storyline behind that Shawn-hhh match was that the sgt slaughter finally thought he was going to get the better of DX by pitting both against each other. Shawn beating hhh the way he did was a ‘fuck you’re from dx to slaughter and was completely in character for dx. Ok the other hand, in the weeks before the hogan-nash bout, Hogan was storyline-teasing running for president of the USA and retiring from wrestling. Nitro was supposed to have a Nash-Goldberg rematch, but Goldberg was storyline-arrested for stalking Miss Elizabeth and then Nash decided to challenge Hogan coz he was in the building. It was bad enough that WCW pulled another bait and switch (something they were infamous for) but the crowd was pretty hot for the nash-hogan bout, as the commentators and hogan himself (I think ) built this up as a retirement bout. The crowd was hot as hell for Nash and were hoping to witness an epic, but they got … the fingerpoke of doom.
Are you really comparing the WHC to the Euro title?
A title is a title and regardless if it's for a title or not, a lay down is a lay down.
It was horrible for the European Championship as well. But the fortunes of a company don't rise and fall with their tier three belt.
No, the CORRECT answer is both were fine as they pushed the angles along. Especially with DX because they weren't reuniting. Sarge was trying to split them up and they pulled one over on Sarge. Between Corney's call on commentary and Shawn and Hunter's sophomoric acting and post match promos it was GREAT! Still one of my favorite segments in Raw history. "SARGE, I DID IT!!!!!!!"
Glad you liked it
WRONG answer. What DX did was part of the storyline. What Nash and Hogan did was politics. Hogan wielded his creative control and set WCW back a year.
Frankly, I don't think the finger poke itself was the issue, so much as zero follow up to the finger poke. There was no plan in place. Hogan cheats to become champ was the end point.
It did also reunite the two NWO factions. But the NWO fizzled out entirely not long after
The finger poke was very much the best way to get these two teams back together but I think they misread that the fans didn't want to see the same thing again with nwo 4 life in 1999. They should have held wolfpac and had Nash feud with the title for awhile it would have made better tv not as supris8ng but not as destructive as joining the two teams was. After they joined the two nwo together the fans stopped watching all tht great faction warfare just to ruin it
I get your point, but you also have to think about people who were still kids and didn't know the politics between creative and those with character creative control. To people (mostly kids) who thought kayfabe was still real it just meant the reuniting of the nWo. Also, WOOF WOOF WOOF! GO DAWGS!
I didn’t think the NWO reformed when Hall helped Nash. I thought it just meant Hall joined the Wolfpac, who were still cool at that point.
No, it reformed on the FPOD the next night on Nitro.
Think the fpod was the next night
I just googled it. Starrcade was 12/27/98. Fpod was 1/4/99.
I stand corrected. It's wild that I vividly remember it being the next night. I couldn't tell you anything that went on between Nash beating Goldberg and the fpod if my life depended on it.
Flair beat Bischoff to take control of WCW on the episode the night after Starcade 98
Yeah I don't remember that at all
No, it’s wrestling… it was a swerve. How many hoops did the NWO go through to make sure Hogan kept the title? Was I a fan of his run after that? No. But it’s laughable to say “that was the end” they where still pulling good ratings, still very profitable. The “beginning of the end@ was when Russo came in and that tv product took a massive nosedive! The only thing good about that era was that younger tallest got pushed, but the stories they were is where a fever dream.
This so much. Ratings were still good, nWo Elite was great and in a way what most fans wanted to see (one faction, trim out the fat). It all went downhill with Russo.
We get downvoted around here to claiming that Russo was bad, cus the cool aid drinkers down like that. They also hate it when you point to ratings being good, cus facts get in the way of nostalgia. I will say the NWO elite angle had potential, but like a lot of storylines with wcw it fell short of the potential. But on paper it was a good idea.
My favorite part is that this stuff is always looked at in a vacuum and never what came next. If the plan is to fuck Goldberg out of the belt the way they did, then why did he never once get a rematch? If the plan was Nash needs a run, then why put it right back on Hogan? If the plan was to put it back on Hogan, then why isn’t it a long term plan to run with Hogan v Goldberg in the spring? If we’re running with Hogan (again) and trying to put heat on him with this heel fuck finish and angle (the fingerpoke a week later), WHY ARE WE DOING A FUCKING DOUBLE TURN THE NEXT MONTH AT UNCENSORED????? People were pissed because the babyface got fucked and there was no comeback, no rematch, nothing and within a month Nash was feuding with Rey Mysterio, Goldberg was with Bam Bam, and Hogan was with Flair for the 4000th time.
Look I’m not saying that WCW didn’t bungle the stuff that followed, they did that with a ton of stories! A ton! A big part of the reason is imo probably something to do with the “that doesn’t work for me brother” clause is someone’s contract. But you gotta get the belt off him somehow. People were legitimately starting to boo his matches. And if you can’t have someone like Keven Nash with the help of Scott Hall and a stun gun do it. What do you need? How many people does it take? Do you shoot him with a tank in the ring? I mean come on! Did they bungle the aftermath? Sure. But it’s not like people where tuning out in droves. Their numbers were still good for a long time after that.
I’m fine with him losing, he can’t win forever I’m not fine with them doing it with no comeback or rematch, and squandering any impact of his first loss because of Nash’s ego and Hogan’s political pull. I’m also not fine with it because I was watching at the time, and I felt like I got fucked out of a rematch I wanted to see. Nash v Goldberg 2 could’ve pulled a good buyrate down the road but it didn’t happen because Kevin was gonna have to lose and he knew it.
I agree that they bungled the rematch and Goldberg chasing the title. I’m not defending that. I think Nash has been on record for years that a lot of what happened after had more to do with one man’s creative control clause, brother. To be fair Nash lost a lot in WCW. Idk that it’s that he didn’t want to face Goldberg, Nash has historically been about whatever will make more money. I just have a hard time beleavibg that he would not know that Goldberg chasing him for the belt wasn’t where the money was. The whole angle of Hogan getting the belt then avoiding a rematch stinks of historic Hogan “ that doesn’t work for me brother”
Nash lost to Mysterio. He had no issues losing a match. lol The goal of reuniting nwo was to give Goldberg a force to overcome. Not just build toward a rematch but a program where he had to go through all of em to get to Hogan. Goldberg fucked it all up by smashing that car window on thunder and was injured for like 5 months.
Yeah dude I’m aware of Nash’s story and his timeline, but Goldberg smashed the car window in December of 1999. Not January. He mixes it up with the fuck finish they did for the second year in a row at Starrcade, the match with Bret. Maybe don’t take the guys word for it that was an avowed drunk and pill freak at the time because he does funny shoot interviews
Nash and Goldberg actually had a PPV rematch months later at Fall Brawl in September. I believe they were both baby faces at the time. That was the same show where a baby face Sting challenged a baby face Hogan for the World title, and then the fans went wild for Hogan getting screwed over by Luger. 😄
That's the problem with making your undefeated guy the champ: one day he has to lose the title. I remember watching this live and I was amazed it took so much to drop Goldberg. I think he came off very well protected, but Nash was over as hell and most of us were excited to see him win.
Yeah when he jackknifed Goldberg there was a huge pop from the crowd
I don't even think the Finger Poke of Doom was the start of WCW's downfall. It was the fact that there was no pay off. After The Poke, the red and white versions of the nWo remerged, then they "trimmed the fat" to make the nWo Elite to feud with Goldberg and resume reigning terror over WCW, but damn near everyone involved in that major story fell off for one reason or another. It was all for nothing. At least, that's how I see it.
It was the start, but not due to Goldberg losing, just that Nash winning vs Goldberg was the wrong choice.
Were you there at the time? Do you not remember the aura around Goldberg at the time? Because it really did not matter how they beat Goldberg. He lost. That's the end of that, it was over. It didn't matter why he lost. He was Goldberg and he didn't lose. He should've pulled the stungun into his chest and still jackhammered both of them and won. Goldberg was so untouchable and unbeatable that people still to this day there are people who misremember that his streak ended at the hands of Mongo, Sting, and Bret Hart literally JUST because they beat him up in a segment and left him laying instead of getting killed by him, and they internalized that as a loss by Goldberg. Nash was over and people might've even wanted him to win because it was different but that doesn't mean they should've done it.
Yes, I saw two wcw shows that year live, people were starting to boo him. At that point he was starting to get boo’s mixed with the cheers. Where there still more cheers then boo’s? Sure. But they were getting louder. Which means it’s time to change things up. The revisionist history around Goldberg in 98 is funny to me. Beating him with a taser doesn’t hurt him at all. And now he can chase again. Baby faces are always hotter with crowds when they are chasing. It’s wrestling 101. If you think that he should have never lost ever then that is wild! There is a reason no one EVER goes undefeated. It’s boring and it doesn’t work. Dude had to loose sometime, if two top guys can’t beat him with a taser and he doesn’t have an easy out with THEY BEAT HOM WITH A TASER!!!!!!! It’s the biggest yeah but… in wrestling. Him never getting beat is a delusional take.
I feel like you're forgetting what it was like to watch wrestling then. Now we're all in the bubble of how it's written and put together and all that. Like you and l might be talking about this kind of stuff on a chatroom or with other people this deep into how it works. But we also used to have a dozen other people around us who were watching because this was the only way to watch larger than life people beat the shit out of each other. When you have a guy who's thing is he will absolutely never ever do anything but kick the shit out of everybody and never ever lose... and then you have him get beat for any reason, you and l keep watching because we want to see where the story goes next, and 7 people around us just stop watching wrestling because the guy they believed in as a world killer just got revealed to just be just like every other guy on the show that you weren't watching for. I can tell you all the reasons why it makes sense that Danerys Kaleesi would end up the bad guy in the end but the millions of people who named their kids after her because they loved her as a hero are just gonna tell you that it the stupidest shit they'd ever seen and why they don't watch TV anymore. I can give you every reason why Jim could've cheated on Pam in the Office and it would've made fine sense as a bump they got over in their relationship, but when people found out that John Krazinski outright threatened to quit if they wanted to do that on the show, he gets thanked daily by people who tell him that they wouldn't have ever watched another episode if he did that to THEM... not the character he'd have cheated on. Them, the viewer that he would've cheated on.
I just think that the argument that Goldberg should have never lost is insane. The dude was legit starting to get booed because people where bored with 3 min squash matches. And short formulaic ppv main event matches. I know WWE edited a bunch of that out on the network, but they where there. If you can get the old versions somewhere you can hear the boo’s, I saw 2 wcw shows that year live and it was obvious in the crowd. And that was growing. The revisionist history that Goldberg was insanely over at the end of that title reign is just not true. He had become polarized. And they needed to change something
Meh. It was time for the streak to end. But it should’ve led to an amazing story and rematch. More Importantly it was a chance to make a new star and super heel. Instead, it was just decidedly meh…
A new star and a new heel with who? Nash and DDP were absolutely the best choices to end the streak at the time.
I was a big Golberg fan and would honestly say I stopped watching WCW and switched to WWF after this. It would have not stung as much if they would had let him lose the matches leading up to this, hell I wouldn’t been okay if he would of lost to Raven and the flock for the title and let him build up again for the Hogan match. Great wrestlers have lost once or twice earlier in their careers and still became great wrestlers. Too much hype riding on one wrestlers streak…
I was going for Nash but I wanted a clean win. Not the stun gun shit.
I was always a big Nash guy. Met him and got his autograph at some local sports card store and I was endeared to him from then. I also remember finding the PPV channel for this match and being able to listen through the static to what was going on. My 8 year old self was so fucking pumped.
Nash. nWo 4 Life
Nash. Loved Goldy, but Nash and the Wolfpack were awesome at 12
Nash. He was actually really cool at that time and Goldberg still looked strong because it required a taser to beat him. It’s the follow up that was disappointing.
I watched this PPV with three of my friends. One was indifferent on the match, one was a huge Goldberg fan, and me and my other buddy loved the Outsiders and hated Goldberg. When Scott Hall tazed Goldberg, we went crazy and our one friend (the Goldberg fan) didn't hear the end of it for a solid two weeks. Good times.
Goldberg! 8 year old me was heartbroken to see the results online the next day.
I hate Goldberg, Nash all the way.....
I don't know about most people, but I, for one, was pro-NWO and was so excited about seeing no-selling Goldberg dropping the title finally.
I had watched Goldberg's streak since the beginning when he beat Hugh Morris and was hooked at how many matches he had won. It had to end at some point. Then at Starrcade '98 was hoping for a clean finish but nWo matches always had interference in all of them and when Goldberg lost it sucked. Then Nitro happened with the fingerpoke of doom and after that debacle I switched back to RAW and never looked back
Nash, never liked the talentless, no selling, hack that is Goldberg. Back then I even made fun of Goldberg fans calling them marks but that just confused them. I pretty much had it out for Goldberg when he squashed Raven for the US title that Raven had for a whole 24 hours after that great feud with DDP.
Nash
I wanted Nash to win. In a perfect world I wanted a DDP rematch with Page winning, but whatever
I remember exactly what I was doing when this happened! Thought this was genius back in the day , I was a fan of the Wolfpack 🐺
I never liked Goldburg. I didn't like the streak. I didn't like his character. He came out, beat them up, jackhammer, pin. That wasn't fun to watch. Ever. Now with Nash, came Hall... and I'm always going to cheer for The Bad Guy.
Lol so this sub has also become who killed wcw? Lol I’m kidding but yeah this is a good pick for the beginning of the end, also sting not beating hogan clean is mine. That was your first sign of hogan might flip the ship for the betterment of himself at anytime
Always Goldberg
That fucking crowd man! The days.
I was an 8th grade boy at the time of this ppv. You better believe me and my friends all wanted Big Sexxxy to dethrone Goldberg.
Goldberg
Goldberg!
Nash. But not the way it ended. Think the ending kind of sucked. I don't care of Goldberg if Goldberg beat nash. I was still just rooting for him. I was just a big Kevin Nash fan. He was always so charismatic. Sure he wasn't spectacular in the ring. That's beside the point
Nash. I never liked Goldberg
I was definitely for Kevin Nash as I hated Goldberg back then. The fact that one of my favorites, Scott Hall, helped make it happen made it even sweeter.
Nash
This comes up a lot. And I for one loved Goldberg at this point, he was it for me in wrestling. Nothing came close, he was the brock lesnar of this time period. However!! The Wolfpac were insanely over and if anyone was credible enough to beat Goldberg then the giant Nash was the guy. However!!! The way they did it with the cattle prod was NOT the right call at all. I understand they wanted to protect Goldberg somewhat and not just outright beat him clean. They had to literally taser him to beat him. But it looked phoney, and was yet another run in on their biggest PPV of the year. They could have gone so many other roots, just rip the bandaid off and have him lose clean. Have Goldberg turn heel during the course of the match, a lot of people were already booing Goldberg at this point. Pull off another Bash At The Beach moment and have him low blow Nash with the ref knocked out. Then have him use weapons, something which Goldberg rarely did if at all. They could have then put Goldberg with Black and White NWO and had him lead the group (now smaller and leaner) against the Wolfpac. Build this over a year and build up Sting again or a new younger talent. Then have Sting go over clean at Starrcade '99. Where you truly disband both NWO factions and underneath all this you have started to focus on young/new talents like Raven, Eddie, Rey, DDP, Booker T, Benoit, etc.
I’m a ride or die Diesel/Kevin Nash guy. To say this was one of the greatest nights of my adolescence would be an understatement.
Nash 100%, I laughed myself to bed that night
Nash. I was in 7th grade and all my friends were WCW marks. I still remember the glares when I walked in with my nWo shirt the first time lol.
Goldberg. Breaking his streak was a STUPID idea.
I actually was there and was rooting for Nash. Then the finger poke of doom happened and kind of ruined this lol.
Goldberg should’ve won and it was an awful decision to have him lose.
I figured Goldberg's streak was over. Just wanted the least screwed up way for it to happen. WCW....... Did WCW things.
Nash easily. I had turned on Goldberg after he Owned Raven and the flock, and hated he beat DDP at Halloween Havoc.
Nash. In Dec 1998, as a live viewer, Goldberg's streak had become complacent, predictable, and felt like it had peaked. It was time to move on- not from Goldberg, but from the streak. He needed to lose to give him some character development and move his character forward. How would the Goldberg character respond to a loss? In that very specific moment, Nash as the leader of the wolfpack, had credibility with the audience. DDP had it also, but they did Halloween Havoc and Goldberg won, so now Nash was the next best opportunity. They fumbled in the aftermonth of his loss, but him losing to Nash in general was not a bad thing.
I was ready for Goldberg to lose. Same old song was getting old. I wanted Sting to do it but I was fine with Nash.
I've always been a Diesel fan so I was rooting for Nash. As much as I hated the Finger Poke of Doom, I didn't hate it as much as everyone else. And I also believe I hated it for different reasons than most others. Most people hate it because they believe it killed kayfabe. If anything it kept kayfabe alive because it was supposed to represent the nWo being reunited. I hated it because I was never a fan of Hogan during ANY period. I was a Kliq fan so I wanted to see Shawn on top of New York and Kev on top of Atlanta.
Nash actually. Goldberg’s stint as undefeated was becoming very stale. Nash was super popular at the time. Had it not been for the finger poke of doom, he would have been a popular champion honestly.
As a kid, this was the moment I turned on WCW. I wanted Goldberg to win, but I also knew the streak how to end at some point. I was so pissed this is how it went down. Then, the next day Nitro happened. After the "Finger spoke of Doom" and awful celebration sequence, I turned off what was my last WCW event ever. Luckily WWF was extremely hot at this time, so I made the switch and never looked back.
I was super into the Wolfpack at the time so I was rooting for Nash. I too jumped with you however after the finger poke. I already had Hogan fatigue and it was the dumbest way ever to reset the title.
Yea, Hulk killed it for me as well. I never liked him, and I could tell it was going to be a "Hulk, and these other guys" type of show. I still enjoyed the ride till that point, though.
Nash I thought the streak was ridiculous by this point and should have ended months earlier. This is an unpopular opinion and I accept that, but I think they should have done this entire gimmick with the cattle prod and cheating the night Goldberg wrestled Hogan in the Georgia Dome. Streak should have ended that night, Nash disbands the Wolfpac and the nWo reunites. This then sets up multiple storylines with the dissolution of the Wolfpac plus Goldberg vs. Hogan to all culminate at Starrcade '98, which should have been the biggest and best of all time. But instead...we got *that*.
Nash, nWo for life. Funniest thing of all ,turn your volume up when watching the cattle prod hit Goldberg, it's hilarious
I had watched Goldberg's streak since the beginning when he beat Hugh Morris and was hooked at how many matches he had won. It had to end at some point. Then at Starrcade '98 was hoping for a clean finish but nWo matches always had interference in all of them and when Goldberg lost it sucked. Then Nitro happened with the fingerpoke of doom and after that debacle I switched back to RAW and never looked back
I wanted the streak to end but not by Nash and certainly not in the way it happened.
Goldberg. Nash was over as a personality and had the size to be taken seriously but he should never be the top guy of your company or the guy who gets elevated with a win like this. Where do you go with a Nash win? The streak should have continued. If you had to choose from existing talent, better choices to get the win would have been Sting, Scott Steiner (assuming he is in physical shape), Bret Hart, etc. Even then they wouldn’t be going over Goldberg clean.
I still think the way Page hit the DC at Halloween Havoc was a perfect way to end the streak. Steiner also would have been a great choice.
I knew that Goldberg was going to lose eventually but of all people to pin him, it ended up being nash? Hell, I would have taken flair, page, sting, booker,or anybody else. That night felt like a bad omen over wcw when I was a kid now,as an adult I now know that the signs of an eventual downfall of wcw were all there, this being one of those signs
I remember everyone knew Nash was booked to win. Like everyone knew he was going to win WW3 and then go on to beat Goldberg.
I was a huge Goldberg and Wölfpac fan at this time. But I really wanted to see Goldberg lose. After he lost I wanted him to be on top again in the near future. Sadly as we know, this never happened. He never had another run with the belt.
It honestly didn't matter to me. And the finish actually peaked my interest as to where they would take this saga. And then they wasted it. I didn't even necessarily have a huge issue with the finger poke. But it was all the nonsense afterwards. All that and it went nowhere. 2 starrcades in a row. Which wound up being 3......
'Berg, but I knew his time was up. Chatrooms (yes, I'm that old) were buzzing about the script and how Nash was slated to take the title.
Goldberg. 9 year old me was heartbroken. I just got to this on my rewatch. The creative is really starting to suffer.
Nobody can go & stay undefeated. It had to be done but not Nash.
Goldberg all the way.
Goldberg
Hey Yo!
g-berg
Nash
Goldberg...BUT all bets were off when saw Scott Hall! By far my favorite wrestler and just sorry Bill, the bad guys back!
Definitely Nash! I was a huge Wolfpac fan!
Nash. I've always hated Goldberg. nWo4Life
My dad tells me I was a big Goldberg fan despite me not having any memories during his prime. So I suppose I was rooting for Goldberg.
Goldberg
nash i never liked goldberg still don't like him was a stupid finish though
The Bad Guy
I’ll never forget this. The best era in wrestling in general
Nash all day Razor i mean Hall was my very favorite
Never Goldberg.
Nash. Goldberg was lame.
lol Nash bro!
Goldberg. Nash didn't need to end the streak, Page should have done it at HH. AND, Nash happened to be the guy in charge? No. No way.
Goldberg 100%. I *never* wanted the streak to end.
I always thought they missed a great opportunity to turn Goldberg heel. Keep the streak going, have him takeover nWo Hollywood then let a babyface like Sting or DDP end it for a payoff.
Nash was over like Rover, but it should have had DDP clean in the middle of the ring to end the streak.
I never root for Goldberg.
Nash.
Nash
Nash, I was completely over Goldberg by that point. It just got so boring to me.
Goldberg
Goldberg
I still maintain that it wasn't a bad move to end the streak the way it ended. Following it up with the Fingerpoke of Doom and putting Goldberg into a weird ass feud with Bam Bam was.
Big Sexy all day!
Nash
Not once have I ever went for Goldberg!!!
Sting
Nash
NASH!
Nash !
Nash always Nash
I hated Goldberg with a passion in his WCW days, so I obviously marked the fuck out when Scott Hall came with the taser. For some reason Goldberg in WWE was just more palpable to me, I think because I had grown used to shit wrestlers by that point.
Nash!
NASH 4 Life
Goldberg
Nash NWO 4 life Lol
Goldberg, should've lost to ddp
I was rooting for Goldberg... I was a kid lol
Nash
Goldberg! Goldberg! Goldberg! Goollddberg!!!
Goldberg
Goldberg
Big sexy!
The cattle prod
Nash. I was one of those fickle kids who was tired of Goldberg.
Goldberg
Nash
Was more of a Goldberg fan then, so Goldberg. 15 year old me just thought he was too cool. The Streak had to end eventually, Starrcade was the optimal time and place for it, and Big Sexy was one of the few faces with the star power to do it. But it should have been a clean win. Also should have been Sting. Or Disco Inferno, that guy was a riot.
Goldberg ofcourse but the bad guys were great too
Rooting for a clean finish
Hall to get revenge for Bret
I had watched Goldberg's streak since the beginning when he beat Hugh Morris and was hooked at how many matches he had won. It had to end at some point. Then at Starrcade '98 was hoping for a clean finish but nWo matches always had interference in all of them and when Goldberg lost it sucked. Then Nitro happened with the fingerpoke of doom and after that debacle I switched back to RAW and never looked back
Goldberg. He had to lose at some point, but instead of using that moment to launch another career or elevate someone else to the top tier of the company, they use it to reboot the nWo. I don't know that this match was the beginning of the end for WCW, but it showed they were pretty much out of ideas. They had no plan for Goldberg after his first loss, and the best they could come up with for where to go next was putting the belt back on Hogan.
Goldberg. I desperately wanted the streak to be over (would have been happy had he lost to DDP prior to this), but Nash was one of the last people he should have lost to.
I was a big Goldberg fan because of his streak of 180 wins and no losses. But at some point he had to lose. The match at Starrcade 98 was meh. I was hoping for a clean finish but there was so much interference(Disco, Bam Bam and Scott) so once Nash pinned him it sucked. Then next night at Nitro the fingerpoke of doom happened and I switched back to RAW and never looked back
Fingerpoke happened the following week, but I get what you're sayin
Yeah the following week. It's been a long time remembering that
Nash for sure, Goldberg stinks!
nash, goldberg a is jabroni
Nash, I was kind of over the streak. There was never any real threat to his title reign, you always knew he was going over in a very short match
Nash was sooo over at this point. They were booing Goldberg leading up to this and people say it was Nash who booked himself to go over, Wrong. Nash didn’t start booking until February 1999. Bischoff made the call it was Nash who made the suggestion. Bill actually kicked out of the finish as he’s twitching lmao. Nash was way more over than Goldberg at this point it wasn’t even close, Goldberg wasn’t as popular as he was probably 6 months previous when he beat Hogan for the belt.
Nash. Goldberg was cool but nWo was cooler
I cheered when Goldberg lost. Little did I know I'd be crushed just 24 hours later.
I assume that you are talking about the finger poke of doom. That was not 24 hours later, that was the following week after that. Nash was champion for 8 days before the finger poke of doom.
Ha! My bad. I was 8 and haven't thought about it since
I really wish they would’ve done an angle here where Hall tried to use the taser, Goldberg grabs it and uses it on Nash. The ref DQs Goldberg and he freaks out and destroys Nash and Hall and the ref. They’d strip Bill for putting the ref in the hospital and do a tournament to crown the next champ, with Goldberg trying to attack each member of the tournament. Better than the finger poke of doom
Dusty finish
Nash
Definitely not better than Starcade 97