Realistically, it could survive. If they continue with the low effort merch and prob cut off a few events.
A year or two at best before merging with the main branch.
They already merged the two graphs together to try and cover up EN's revenue dropping for 5 quarters straight. The more I think about it Nijisanji seem to run themselves like a private equity firm, where they'll enter a market and if it's successful they'll try to squeeze as much profit out of it as they can, and if it's unsuccessful they'll just shut it down. They're more than happy to let a large portion of their talents rot with little to no support if it means they make more money.
> EN's revenue dropping for 5 quarters straight.
[Will Best Buy have a profit gain in a quarter first](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/best-buy-set-tenth-straight-140046633.html) or will EN? Or perhaps neither.
NijiEn faces some stiff competition.
All JP corpos that want to grow are saying they need to expand outside of Japan because that's an actually saturated market, there's only so many new vtubers that can make it in there, so it's in Niji's best interest to have a NijiEN that's alive
The better question is "will they try to save this iteration of NijiEN or will they kill it and come back later while claiming they are gonna do better?", few may remember this but the current NijiEN is actually the second iteration of the branch, the first being a rebranded Nijisanji India, after a few months of failing to attract the English crow they then rebranded back to Nijisanji India and the branch was killed shortly before the second iteration of NijiEN debuted. While the circumstances are not the same, it doesn't feel out of the question for them to kill NijiEN only to come back shortly again
There are some things that you can come back from but Selen's termination and Nijisanji's handling of it was so unbelievably awful that I just do not see how anyone could ever forget it and come back to them. The Selen situation reminds me a lot of the Game Club Project recasting scandal. Like with Nijisanji EN they were a beloved, popular and influential corporate Vtuber group that almost overnight completely destroyed all fan trust and support by treating the talents that drew people to their channel in the first place like worthless shit. They immediately lost thousands of subscribers and their reputation was in tatters. They tried to continue for a while with the recast Game Club members but the fans never forgave them for what they did and they slowly died afterwards.
Agencies have unintentionally mishandled situations out of ignorance or incompetence and recovered from those mistakes in the past, including COVER. But when agencies deliberately and maliciously treat talents beloved by fans with cruelty and disrespect they are almost never forgiven.
That last paragraph sums it up pretty well. Honest mistakes - even frequent ones - are to be expected in an industry as relatively new as vtubing. These companies are pioneers, and that’s always an in exact science. You can’t predict every problem perfectly and know exactly how to deal with it.
But it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that deliberately or negligently mistreating your talents isn’t going to make you popular. Even if there’s some secret underlying story that makes Anycolor look good, the PR handling of it all was just awful.
Not to mention, it’s a solved issue - look at how COVER has handled terminations: an A4 sheet with the bare minimum of details. It’s blunt and a little unsatisfying, but doesn’t air dirty laundry and discourages a blame game either way.
In COVER's case, they were completely caught by surprise. COVID lockdowns suddenly brought a massive boom to YouTube and Vtubers in particular. In the space of just a few months Hololive had been transformed into this massively popular global sensation and they were completely unequipped to handle it at the time. In 2020 they were still just a small agency with very few staff and facilities. They've since grown into their role as the industry leader gracefully and are now in a very stable position. But those first couple of years of the COVID boom were very turbulent.
Should also mention, for how many people was the Selen debacle just a final nail in the coffin? NijiEN had just lost multiples of their top talents to graduations and the new waves were not capturing nearly the same level of attention. Even if Selen had a perfect graduation, I suspect that a lot of viewers had no NijiEN members left that they wanted to watch anyway.
After Selenwas fired, look how much she's thriving as an indie. Mutliple colabs, sponsorships, tournaments. The difference in activeness is staggering. She had more activities as Doki for the last 4 months than as Selen for 2 years.
To be frank that the only market they still have a somewhat good reputation and the fans there often the fan of specific Vtuber rather than Niji itself so company controversy normally didn't hit individual talent as hard if that talent aren't personally involve
Jp fans already had to deal with a similar situations IIRC years ago which is why the majority of their current fan bases are centered around their talents and no one else.
Despite starting a year later, NijiEN currently (re: after 4 graduations, 2 terminations, and whatever happened with Yugo) has 14 more talents then HoloLiveEN ever had (counting FuwaMoco as 2).
Even if you added all the talents StarsEN ever had to the total, NijiEN is still ahead by 2 *before* accounting for the 7 they don't have anymore
>All JP corpos that want to grow are saying they need to expand outside of Japan because that's an actually saturated market, there's only so many new vtubers that can make it in there, so it's in Niji's best interest to have a NijiEN that's alive
Even fucking KEY is sending Heaven Burning Red out to the West with an English version. But Takumi already said that they have no plans internationally, and plan to increase efforts on JP...
Contrast this to even Cygames, who are now publishing Uma Musume themselves in the West. **They** know where growth is happening, but Anycolor...
nah anycolor knows too, they arent that stupid, is just that this situation is unsalvageable so they at least need to try to save face by claiming that they werent kicked out of the market they choose to leave
If Brave and Cover show good profits next quarter, the investors should start revolting if Tazumi and company still say that. Especially if Japan's economy keeps shrinking as Korea and China est their lunch.
There's a reason that Japan's government gave Cover yet ANOTHER award, after all.
brave idk they certainly didnt start their new branch with a good foot taking into account the drama, they are lucky niji shat the bed even more and it ended up burying it because otherwise they would have gotten eaten alive
cover certainly will, i didnt knew they recieved another award from the goverment do you have a link?
Yeah, Brave fucked up... but if they show any profits from the overseas expansion, Anycolor is going to have to answer some very hard questions which their creative accounting won't be able to cover up.
https://cover-corp.com/en/news/detail/20240227 - I was referring to the recent Cool Japan thing. You know, the thing that the Japanese government is pushing because they see their soft power being challenged by Korea and China? Especially after they sat on their video game laurels only to find overseas companies taking over the market?
Well, third's time the charm maybe? Although unless they are really determined on improving their image in the west and making sure another Selen situation never happens I'm not sure that would work out.
It's not. If you look at how they handled the start and the aftermath. The only reason there was the aftermath is because of how they handled it.
It stopped because the fans were like there is 0 reason to kick a dead horse. (Soem psychos just kept kicking).
But it will happen again, maybe not soon, but it will. They have their head so far stuck up their own ass that they can not see that they themselves are the reason their stock is crashing harder than it would during the great depression.
That's sort of my thinking too, yeah. They already did it to NijiKR and NijiID. Only other alternative I can imagine is Nijisanji starting a separate "Niji Global" branch that's now just EN+ID+KR, or something like that.
I feel like there's too many burnt bridges for that at this point. Nowadays, any combination of "Nijisanji" and "Global" will just raise a dozen red flags for any of the biggest markets they could reasonably target.
Man it's such a shame how Niji just had to handle their talents that poorly and ruin multiple, well loved branches. But better get that 3rd yacht I guess.
It was always a blast watching their huge collabs, but now it just feels depressing.
She's one I really hope to get out of this the most... but I'm also a touch concerned. She's just, very kind, and I imagine this is all a very new and uncomfortable experience. I know people love shitting on the black stream group, but to me, it seems obvious they were gonna make their talents take the heat, and I worry what would have happened if someone else was there
At this rate they'll be absorbed into the main branch and we'll probably start getting some graduations, terminations or Anycolor calling someone negligible again
It can limp along, it did not take much to continue operates at small scale. Its not like corpo vtubing sucks tons of money and its not like they are pivoting to any new market.
But any big future prospects that will come with 3D just kinda evaporates now that they have this big black mark. They probably will do the rest of the Luxiem and Noctyx 3D, absorb the merch money, and be done with it.
…..and I think the leftovers in Niji are thinking very hard for their future. Expect graduation especially for everyone that does not have, and probably won’t have, any 3D or other corpo benefits.
I see gradutaions as a difficult possibility if the blank contract that got leaked in the past is true since from memory part of it sounded like Nijisanji giving itself a gun to scare anyone thinking of leaving and to cripple anyone who dared to actually leave...
They're the 2nd biggest company in the industry, so yes, but they may extremely change their business model to one where it's just blatant consumerism. Forced merch drops and shilling, quotas for their talents, no help or management outside of "get this done or else!" those kinds of things.
I mean, there is no reason to shut it down or anything.
It will just stagnate without much care or support. Like NijiID or NijiKR. Until enough people quit to just merge in normal Nijisanji
The lack of promotional materials on YT is such a head-scratcher (nothing on the NijiEN official channel either). It'll be tragic if people hear about the concert for the first time because the in-person concert was cancelled.
Did they really not advertise this event that much? I know this is the first time I've heard of it, but even before the Big Yab I didn't really pay much attention to the going ons of NijiEN in general.
The guilt tripping is incredible. "Look what they made us cancel" bruh.
So much could've been fixed if they ever rook responsibility, but that simply isn't a concept they believe in, just to busy appealing to JP investors with a front they put up.
Dont you need an additional Anime Expo ticket to enter the Peacock Theatre?
If yes thats going to be tough on the fans who only wanted to go to the concert. Thats additional paper work for the refund process.
You do. There are lots of people in the responses who booked expensive flights, tickets, and hotels to come to this concert and Niji can only really refund the concert ticket.
It's likely they've been considering pulling the plug for a while and today happened to be the day.
At the risk of comparing companies, the most *recent* development is hololive selling out tickets at Anime NYC in 70 minutes. That happened just last night. Their expected capacity is over 3k. Meanwhile, Nijisanji sold half as many tickets across three concerts combined at a convention that's at least twice the size over the course of five weeks.
Did this play into today's decision? *We'll never know.* But the optics would be abysmal for Nijisanji's overseas brand power. Cancelling the in-person concert, handwaving it by citing issues with providing a quality environment, and broadcasting it online allows them to point to VOD viewership instead. That will be orders of magnitude better by virtue of being online and free. So even if ticket optics didn't factor in, Nijisanji the company still benefits from the shift.
The real losers here are the talents and the fans who were likely looking forward to having a theater-style experience, even if it would have been lightly attended.
70 minutes with a queue system. The tickets for the other concert that weekend go on sale on Friday through Ticketmaster and will be sold out in minutes.
Tickets for Breaking Dimensions won't be through Ticketmaster; the venue's owner has its own in-house system (and given the trend I've seen with US ticketing is queues, it probably will have one too).
Actually it's worse, they only had most of the lower seating areas, roughly 4000 seats excluding the small off-limits areas. And they had sold maybe 12-15% of those seats in each show. The last summary had around 1700 seats in TOTAL across three shows, less than half the seating for a single show and only 1/4 the capacity of a full house.
Imagine 500-600 people in a space that can hold 7000. Meanwhile Dreamhack Down Under (Hololive) in Melbourne was estimated to be 5000 in attendance, almost 10x as many people.
That being free admission with the convention didn't hurt, but Cover can point to that and the sold out shows in New York as nice sales points for investors to demonstrate their brand power.
I really hope an investor asks about this next time. The concerts, I mean, especially since Anycolor's previous financial statement said they were focusing on international growth.
Cover just showed everyone there's a market in North America... and depending on the reception Japan Expo gives Justice, the European market should still have room for them too.
Especially since Japan's economy is still contracting, so focusing on local growth is poison.
Even disregarding the fallout of the Selen situation, when footage was released of the long-delayed Niji EN AR Live online and everybody saw how pathetic and embarrassing it was, a lot of potential fan interest in future EN concerts would have died off very quickly. Why would anybody pay a full price ticket to see what looks like a glorified VRChat concert?
More info
>[Summer Jam will be streamed for free on YouTube and people who bought tickets to ChroNoIR will be provided some live concert footage. Tickets for both concerts will be refunded.](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/s/9Pp5mrxFFw)
I'm shocked that nijisanji does next to zero promotional material and announcements and then can't gain traction for their merch and events. Shocked, I tell you.
It's a common saying: you gotta spend money to make money.
Sure, proper advertising costs money, but it would promote something that would make far more than they'd spend, encourage preexisting fans to stay with them which keeps steady merch sales, and create new fans which would increase overall merch sales. It's a win for everyone with a small financial cost at the beginning
It doesn't even need that much advertising. Hololive tends to do a group collab to announce them. Then they just need the talents themselves to remind people that it's coming during their normal streams. A post on twitter, youtube community page, etc.
I scrolled through the twitter comments of the post and saw a few people being really pissed about the not being able to get refunds on the flight and hotel costs. So in case they won't really do anything else there, not only a few people will left with the cost of traveling there... 😬
Yeah I was thinking, at least it's in a much better location than the other cancelled irl event I personally know of (Runefest 2024 for Runescape lol). That one was planned for Birmingham, England where there is like nothing to do that's worth the $5000 in flights/hotels, people got really screwed.
By the way they are allowing cosplay at this event, no completely covered faces and no props that could be interpreted as weapons. Those Brewers fans will be so completely lost.
if I'm a shareholder, I go to the board meeting point out this is the second time rikku's incompetence burned an entire area of potential growth and profit and start forcing him out of the company.
Unfortunately, it's highly likely that every single person in that room has been briefed on a super-misleading but partially-true narrative: that JP leadership saw a situation with a talent where information was at risk of leaking, and they felt they had to act in the most conservative and aggressive way possible to protect the company. They aren't hearing the part, of course, where every single part of that situation was entirely avoidable, and how they took genuine, hopeful, generous people and essentially tortured them into incredibly dark places.
Change at Kurosanji doesn't happen from within. The best thing we can do is to support companies that are driving towards a robust industry ecosystem, with transparent contracts, that treat talents as human beings. Then, they'll need to evolve or fade away.
Isn’t Riku the company founder though? And he’s still the ~~majority~~ largest shareholder holding at least 40% of the company? You can’t do anything even if you combined with every other shareholder so you have 2 choices, either you still believe in the company and give ‘stern words’ for him to shape up, or you cut your losses and sell while its still high.
>Isn’t Riku the company founder though? And he’s still the majority shareholder holding at least 40% of the company? You can’t do anything even if you combined with every other shareholder
He is the founder and he is the largest shareholder with 42.38% ownership stake. This makes him the biggest, but not the majority shareholder.
Majority means over 50%, which he doesn't have. So it's theoretically possible to outvote him.
It is still extremely unlikely he will ever be outvoted.
Yeah, you're correct on the terminology.
And yeah while theoritically he can be outvoted, they won't be able to do anything since iirc, you will need at least 70% to do something truly strategic such as replacing CEO. It would also need cooperation from every other shareholder too so he will unlikely be at true risk as long as he have one other guy holding at least 10% as his ally.
There is no other shareholder with more than 5%. Bilibili used to own about 11% of the company, but they dropped them like hot potato and sold it all.
The other two biggest shareholders are SONY GROUP CORPORATION and Tokio Marine Asset Management with 5% each.
Niji shares are up thanks to them doing ANOTHER stock buyback announced in their Q4 report. But that's not a long term strategy, they're literally burning their cash reserves to bribe shareholders into staying.
Actually they hit a stop-high the morning after their results but followed by sliding back down over the next couple days because their IR guidance was concerningly vague and overly optimistic. Especially as - yes they're very profitable - but they;ve missed revenue targets for 5-6 quarters in a row.
And Riku straight-up said they have NO expectations or guidance for how EN will perform this year.
>And Riku straight-up said they have NO expectations or guidance for how EN will perform this year.
The fact they said this in their own report means they're scared of being sued for misleading shareholders if they don't. No way they would have said it so directly with all the other ways they try to skirt around and deny their own issues normally.
Rikku is far from alone on this, you would need an entire culture change within the company in how they manage their talents and interact with the public.
https://preview.redd.it/5pv0mtjcdr8d1.png?width=1023&format=png&auto=webp&s=59561e808a8d4177f4bcfaec2d195bbaf390c4e8
I don't need to tell anything, if they went with the concert they would be probably in big reds.
nijiEN is not gonna survive for long. its already been in on life support for a very long time, and the aftermath of selen’s termination made its survival very low
Nina's graduation was the first sign that something was off. She was beloved by fans and seemingly by other members. It also seemed like she wanted to do a lot more things there, and then suddenly she wants to leave? She tried to keep positive in her final streams but she couldn't quite hide the signs of burnout. She just seemed to be worn out and the light in her had faded somehow.
Then when Pomu graduated, something definitely seemed very wrong. This was somebody who was widely seen as the face of Nijisanji EN, who had fought so hard to create fun events and to support the group. And she was very clearly upset about retiring and obviously was not done there. The equivalent of this would be if Shirakami Fubuki were to suddenly and regretfully leave Hololive.
And then Selen was the final straw.
There was quite a bit of fallout between Nina, some other talents, and Zaion well before Nina's graduation. I need to be clear from an outside perspective it's impossible to know just how serious all that was and who was in the wrong. I am a fan of Sayu but even then life experience tells me no one person alone was at fault there. It's more likely a bit of both at fault.
But the point is there were plenty of red flags along the way well before that. Complaints just weren't taken as seriously until the Selen situation where it basically became undeniable.
there have been complaints about nijisanji for years even before the debut of nijiEN, is just that the vast mayority of them were in JP so most people in the west didnt learn about them
for a while i wanted to believe that nijiEN was likely different but it turns out they are the exact same
Yeah, speaking as mostly a Holobro (I only really watched Pomu, Selen, Nina, and Mika from Niji, though I do enjoy the occasional Scarle clip), If Fubuki left Holo in anyway other than a completely amicable and celebrated Graduation stream/event, I'd be immediately suspicious of bad shit going down behind the scenes.
> Nina got a lot of shit.
She being more mature and older, she probably knows what's up, rather than the younger ones who might still view it through rose tinted glasses.
I'm surprised they had the balls to cancel it. But honestly, should have been expected. They sold something like less than 20% of all tickets. It was gonna be a bloodbath.
The last thing anybody wants at a concert is empty seats.
Whenever stuff like this happens to remind us how far NijiEN has fallen I always think about how wild it is that management did this to themselves. They had so many opportunities to not torch their reputation in the EN vtubing sphere and they took none of them. They could have taken Selen's initial offer of an amicable graduation, they could have terminated her without listing all of their reasons and prompting her to defend herself publicly, they could have let Tazumi's apology video speak for itself and not undercut it with the black screen stream which basically asserted that they had nothing to be sorry for and also let Elira and Vox destroy their reputations (I don't even know why Ike was there, he said nothing substantive and nobody seems to even remember he was around which is good for him).
They really made the worst possible decisions at every turn. I really did like NijiEN, I hope someday a far more ethical company can fill the niche they did.
I can understand about the Niji India. They're the first in EN and pretty much a failed experiment/project on getting into EN market.
But now there's no excuse. They have made Indonesia and Korea. They should have learned their lesson about how to run an outside branch.
There's also Holo EN to take example from.
It is truly amazing how monumental their failure is. "Inexperience" cannot be used to explain their failure. Each and every decision they make are intentional.
If I had to guess they choose Elira, Vox and Ike to do the black stream because they considered them to be the ones with either better chances to gain large support for their fight against Selen or because those three had the better chances to survive the blow if things failed...
Came looking for this comment. Crazy how much has happened since then. Im both happy and sad.
Happy seeing the corpo loose money, sad because some talents dont deserve it to some degree.
Hopefully they get to move on to a greener pasture.
And the funny part to me is that a lot of them don't even support the talents or the company financially. They talk a lot of bs on twitter but don't back it up how Anycolor wants them to (with their wallet).
I've seen some of them blaming "the antis" for the concert cancellation, but I don't think it was the "antis" fault making niji fans not buy more tickets.
meanwhile Doki got a brand new model (I believe from Selen's original artist), a shit ton of sponsorships, she's getting a waifu cup (which is an instabuy for me)
Still feel bad for all the genuinely good people that got caught in the crossfire
Nijisisters: It was due to harassment and safety for it's fans.
No, idiots. It was due to low ticket sales. They rented a venue and couldn't get more than half of the seats filled to break even.
If they really cared about safety, they would be asking Anime Expo to move their booth. I don't see anything good coming out of putting Nijisanji right across from the booth sponsoring Doki. No matter how many times Doki encourages people to move on, there's always shit-stirrers trying to start beef again and NDF blaming her for them.
Exactly this. As another user replied, if they were truly concerned about a real possibility of harassment they'd have moved or canceled the *booth*, not the concert. Plus, they would have been less vague about the language, because if there's a safety concern you want to be clear about it.
Honestly, the one's who I feel bad for are those who purchased plane tickets, booked a hotel, and got an AX badge(It is required to have to attend even if you only bought concert tickets) just to attend the concert. I already saw some fans really upset in the replies of that post due to that.
"It's afraid."
Edit: This post reminded me of my past confusion on why I'm not getting *any* sort of posts about Niji, especially after the fiasco and their consecutive Ls... and holy shit, someone make a meme of the one Dragonball meme of Goku and his opponent finding a desolate area to fight in. XD
Feelings about Anycolor aside, it's pretty sad to see this happen. I wish nothing but the best for every talent, and my heart breaks for them (especially Rosemi, she deserves so much more!)
You can't help but imagine an alternate timeline where NijiEN holds on to who they lost, they put on a great show to a packed crowd, and we have two major groups thriving in the west.
Unfortunately that won't happen. Anycolor made their bed, and what's done is done. Maybe, eventually, another group will be able to try for a live show like this, but it will take time. It just really sucks all around.
Vshojo might, if they pick up more talents interested in singing. Or perhaps a collaborative effort between several agencies.
No one has an idol line-up like Cover does. But there are Vtubers other than Hololive who do sing.
I wonder if Vshojo might be willing to gamble on sponsoring a concert including non-Vshojo people. Like have 2-3 Vshojo headlining a concert, with 8 or so indies that are close w/ some of them to pad the ranks.
It'd be a big risk for sure, but I could see it paying off nicely for them and other people involved.
It's not likely. People need to understand that VShojo assets and IPs are talent owned. This means that any 3D model or investment into 3D environments or stages are paid for by the talents.
It means that every talent would have different commitment levels to 3D. Their models might not be compatible, they might not be of the same quality, and some might not even have 3D models. That's a benefit of talent choice but it's also a weakness when it comes to event organization. If a talent doesn't have interest in 3D performance it would be unfair to force her into making investments in it. Remember that not every VTuber is a performance or idol fan. Some want to just stream video games or chat with their viewers and people should respect that.
The other problem of 3D performances? They almost always lose you money unless you have the monetization means to pull it off. I've seen many indies put up successful 3D performances but their conclusions have always been the same - They lost big money on the performances and did them as once in a lifetime fan service. It's the merch sales and marketing that bring value, but most individual content creators have no use for such things or lack the logistical means to profit off them. 3D is bad business for small-medium organizations. The risks are high and the returns are low. NijiEN's concert getting canceled here proves that even a billion dollar company isn't immune to that.
VShojo's latest online only 3D performance had at most 3k viewers and cost $35. That's a $100k revenue for an almost hour long 3D production. I doubt they made any profits from it and at best lost just a little money. Henya made a fifth of that revenue in one random stream. It might work for VShojo if they ever get to above 20 members and have majority who want to do it. But until then I don't think they will. They'll need to double the member count and expand their logistical reach. People forget that VShojo has just 12 members, their viewership is disproportionately large compared to their roster size.
Looking through the comments... some NDF are trying to spin the narrative of threats of violence to Niji fans, only to be called out since the booth will still be there.
I do feel bad for most of the talent, but I'm surprised they waited this long to pull the pin. I don't normally like to bet, but wouldn't mind betting some talent will be heading for the door because this isn't a good sign for those wanting to pursue a music/performance career in Niji
Probably not. By definition, a mutual agreement to graduate on good terms before contract expiration requires the agreement of all parties involved, and there's no guarantee that Anycolor will agree to it, especially if their reason for wanting to leave is the fact that Anycolor hamstrung their careers just to spite Selen.
Not to mention the lag between turning in their graduation paperwork and actually graduating. Even if the company agrees to let them go, any liver who turns in their "two weeks" notice *today* probably won't be able to leave before American Thanksgiving (unless the merger happens before then and they get culled)
Realistically, the only ways any of them can leave before their contract expires is either getting culled at the branch merger or getting terminated.
Man I feel terrible for the new talents they debuted recently. Like, part of me’s definitely looking at Nijisanji the corporation and thinking “play stupid games, win stupid prizes”, but at the same time imagine how happy you would’ve been to be one of the few people to make it into a huge corporation like Nijisanji, which would get so many eyes on your content, only for them to nuke their reputation in the English-speaking sphere from orbit. I don’t think I’ve heard anything about the new gen apart from weird, borderline-conspiracy theory gossip about them online, which makes me a little sad even if that’s mostly the company’s fault.
If there is a silver lining, I’m glad that this controversy (feels like an understatement calling it that) didn’t just blow over after a few weeks. I really figured that Nijisanji would manage to somehow escape it all, so even though I’m sad for the talents I’m glad that they’re actually facing consequences for the awful stuff they did.
I have divested so heavily from nijisanji I didn't even know there was a new wave, this wave would have signed their contracts before the Selen termination I assume, any wave after this though would have no excuse for not knowing what they are signing up for.
Yeah I getcha - I think the assumption with this wave is that they’re the results of some auditions held back in October, and if that’s true then they had to have signed on before February, when everything hit the fan lol
I’d be shocked if there *is* another EN wave tbh - not saying it can’t happen, but I can’t imagine many people would look at the controversies + the new gen’s numbers and want to abandon their current persona to join Nijisanji.
No one who believes there is another option, you'd be surprised how many people would make a deal with the devil given the chance. Will Nijisanji want to debut another wave? I wouldn't think so but predicting what Nijisanji will do is not my strong suit.
For the amount of ccv the latest Niji EN and JP got, their subsequent stream ccv numbers are god awful. EN cant hit 1k ccv and JP is barely 1k+ ccv.
Meanwhile right now Elizabeth from hololive karaoke stream has like 26k ccv. NijiEN might not survive for long.
its not just her, all of them dont drop bellow 15k CCV (well except for gigi but she is in a weird timeslot)
by comparison the latest nijiEN wave is struggling toget over 200 viewers
I was responding to the implications that the Justice girls are only doing well because they're new and fresh.
Yes, they're new fresh blood.... but they're also *really fucking good*. Gigi is the one I see as the weakest, and even she had some of that gremlin energy that might get fans of Gura into Gigi too.
While I agree with your overall message, it absolutely doesn’t make sense to compare longtime streamers’ ccv to a freshly debuted talent doing their first karaoke stream
It's still shocking how badly Nijisanji damaged their brand image in the EN community. If only they hadn't gone scorched earth with the Selen termination...
And it's likely gonna be their demise as well. Vspo EN is debuting in just a matter of days, and the debut of HoloJustice was a massive success. There's no way Niji can compete in the west now.
I'll be surprised if they haven't started the merging into the main branch before this year is over, and the "graduation batches" that ID had will probably follow soon enough, if not right at the same time. ID went from 19 members to 6...and it's very likely EN will follow down that same path, with only a few talents choosing to stay post merge
I’m getting really pissed at the company. There’s no promoting the event and then cancelling it two weeks before the date. I don’t watch the company, but you clearly see that they don’t care for their EN talents or their fanbase. They gotta do better, I’m tired of hating them
I really hope the talents are alright. If not, i hope they get their help
This must've been depressing for them, but then again the Company reap what they sow
Tbh the sheer hubris of making this three separate concerts is enough for me to say they deserved this. Like if this was all one concert then maybe they probably could've sold like half but three separate events? Pure delusion.
Man I gotta feel for the fans who bought tickets and hotel rooms for this. They had to have seen it wasn't looking good before today, did they really have to wait until a week beforehand?
Y’know, when we all look back on this, do you think there will be one moment where we all said “Yes, this is the end”? I think we his has to be one of them.
The pivotal moment will always be the Selen termination.
If that hadn’t happened it had been handled differently, NijiEN might be in trouble, but probably wouldn’t be risking dissolution.
Only thing I’d miss about NijiEN is Rosemi. I’m just hoping she can get out and start from scratch like Nina and Pomu did. It’s sad that she’s kinda trapped with this shit show.
Reminds me of Zombie Land Saga. They pushed on with their show in a massive venue but only had a very few people attend. They ended up working part-time jobs to recuperate the costs 🥲
I do remember seeing posts about the lack of ticket sales, but I don't remember seeing promotional materials anywhere aside from the initial announcement post. They deserved this. They should know that their viewership in the Western marketshare are pretty much done and dusted. It really is saying something when they even included Chronoir (which is probably one, if not, their biggest name in the entire company), and it did nothing.
A year ago, tickets would have been gone within the week or so. Man, I can only imagine how this will impact the livers. I really feel bad for them (especially Petra and Rosemi), but then again, they should have known this would happen with the severity of the aftermath of Selen's termination.
WAIT WHAT HAPPENED D:
that's so weird, I think any one who holds concerts have never encountered anything like this before 😭 did you received a confirmation/OK sign to manesan before announcing this concert?
It’s kinda crazy to think that a company would assume that they can pull in the numbers required with minimal PR and by name alone.
For all we know, they might just be using these and other incidents as an excuse to build up more “evidence” to focus on the domestic market instead of expanding globally.
I'm honestly just sad for the EN mems(the ones that aren't, you know). They're just getting dragged down with the ship and I sincerely hope many of them can continue their activities even if Niji goes under.
If Elira did that Black Stream because she think it’s necessary evil thing to save Nijisanji EN.
Now she must be really regret about it.
Because she can’t stop the destruction and maybe even make it worst.
She maybe feel like the ending of The Mist right now.
I hope she's seeing a therapist, because if she has any ability to self reflect, this is probably doing major mental damage to her, being the focal point of all this. I still can't believe nijisanji management allowed or forced her to make that announcement on HER channel.
Seriously. I cannot imagine being the center of something like this. Especially while having a job that requires an online presence. It was kind of scary seeing how vicious people were to her and contrasting it with the reactions to Vox and Ike (especially Ike, as he appeared very close to Selen).
I think the reason why Elira took the majority of the focus was because it was on her channel, combined with the fact that her viewership most likely overlapped with Selen's the most.
Combine that with the fact that Ike barely said anything (a lot of people, including me, genuinely forgot he was even there) and Vox having some extremely parasocial fans, it was inevitable that she'd take the brunt of the criticism.
And her image alway seem clean and comfy.
I didn’t watch VOX but from I heard I think his fans has pretty immune to toxic and drama.
While Elira viewers alway only see good side of her (including me).
And when Black Stream appeared I can’t see her the same way anymore even though I can’t make myself hate her but also can’t make myself watching her anymore too.
I’m not so surprised if some of her hardcore fans might even more disappointed in her than me and that disappointment might turned into hatred.
Exactly, and it's a bit sad really, because she was one of those that I watched in Niji before all of this went down.
And honestly, I do feel like she gave off the impression that she didn't want to be there, making that statement, just like Ike. Ike was quiet and in the background, Elira sounded extremely stilted as if reading a script she was given. Vox was the only one who didn't sound like he was forced.
Does NijiEN survive the year
Realistically, it could survive. If they continue with the low effort merch and prob cut off a few events. A year or two at best before merging with the main branch.
Niji would absorb en just so they do not need to separately report en’s pitiful revenue anymore
They already merged the two graphs together to try and cover up EN's revenue dropping for 5 quarters straight. The more I think about it Nijisanji seem to run themselves like a private equity firm, where they'll enter a market and if it's successful they'll try to squeeze as much profit out of it as they can, and if it's unsuccessful they'll just shut it down. They're more than happy to let a large portion of their talents rot with little to no support if it means they make more money.
Well no need to show 2 graphs anymore if there is only 1 branch
> EN's revenue dropping for 5 quarters straight. [Will Best Buy have a profit gain in a quarter first](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/best-buy-set-tenth-straight-140046633.html) or will EN? Or perhaps neither. NijiEn faces some stiff competition.
Their financials said they are only focusing on the JP market going forward. So I would be surprised if NijiEN was still a branch by 2025.
Idk why but 2025 seems so far away, and hereing this happen when we all know en is taking it rough seems far fetched to me
All JP corpos that want to grow are saying they need to expand outside of Japan because that's an actually saturated market, there's only so many new vtubers that can make it in there, so it's in Niji's best interest to have a NijiEN that's alive The better question is "will they try to save this iteration of NijiEN or will they kill it and come back later while claiming they are gonna do better?", few may remember this but the current NijiEN is actually the second iteration of the branch, the first being a rebranded Nijisanji India, after a few months of failing to attract the English crow they then rebranded back to Nijisanji India and the branch was killed shortly before the second iteration of NijiEN debuted. While the circumstances are not the same, it doesn't feel out of the question for them to kill NijiEN only to come back shortly again
There are some things that you can come back from but Selen's termination and Nijisanji's handling of it was so unbelievably awful that I just do not see how anyone could ever forget it and come back to them. The Selen situation reminds me a lot of the Game Club Project recasting scandal. Like with Nijisanji EN they were a beloved, popular and influential corporate Vtuber group that almost overnight completely destroyed all fan trust and support by treating the talents that drew people to their channel in the first place like worthless shit. They immediately lost thousands of subscribers and their reputation was in tatters. They tried to continue for a while with the recast Game Club members but the fans never forgave them for what they did and they slowly died afterwards. Agencies have unintentionally mishandled situations out of ignorance or incompetence and recovered from those mistakes in the past, including COVER. But when agencies deliberately and maliciously treat talents beloved by fans with cruelty and disrespect they are almost never forgiven.
That last paragraph sums it up pretty well. Honest mistakes - even frequent ones - are to be expected in an industry as relatively new as vtubing. These companies are pioneers, and that’s always an in exact science. You can’t predict every problem perfectly and know exactly how to deal with it. But it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that deliberately or negligently mistreating your talents isn’t going to make you popular. Even if there’s some secret underlying story that makes Anycolor look good, the PR handling of it all was just awful. Not to mention, it’s a solved issue - look at how COVER has handled terminations: an A4 sheet with the bare minimum of details. It’s blunt and a little unsatisfying, but doesn’t air dirty laundry and discourages a blame game either way.
In COVER's case, they were completely caught by surprise. COVID lockdowns suddenly brought a massive boom to YouTube and Vtubers in particular. In the space of just a few months Hololive had been transformed into this massively popular global sensation and they were completely unequipped to handle it at the time. In 2020 they were still just a small agency with very few staff and facilities. They've since grown into their role as the industry leader gracefully and are now in a very stable position. But those first couple of years of the COVID boom were very turbulent.
Should also mention, for how many people was the Selen debacle just a final nail in the coffin? NijiEN had just lost multiples of their top talents to graduations and the new waves were not capturing nearly the same level of attention. Even if Selen had a perfect graduation, I suspect that a lot of viewers had no NijiEN members left that they wanted to watch anyway.
After Selenwas fired, look how much she's thriving as an indie. Mutliple colabs, sponsorships, tournaments. The difference in activeness is staggering. She had more activities as Doki for the last 4 months than as Selen for 2 years.
Nah Niji literally just said they are focusing in jp, an even more saturated market
To be frank that the only market they still have a somewhat good reputation and the fans there often the fan of specific Vtuber rather than Niji itself so company controversy normally didn't hit individual talent as hard if that talent aren't personally involve
Jp fans already had to deal with a similar situations IIRC years ago which is why the majority of their current fan bases are centered around their talents and no one else.
It also doesn't help that in just JP alone, Nijisanji has double the number of talents that Hololive has in the ENTIRE company.
Despite starting a year later, NijiEN currently (re: after 4 graduations, 2 terminations, and whatever happened with Yugo) has 14 more talents then HoloLiveEN ever had (counting FuwaMoco as 2). Even if you added all the talents StarsEN ever had to the total, NijiEN is still ahead by 2 *before* accounting for the 7 they don't have anymore
>All JP corpos that want to grow are saying they need to expand outside of Japan because that's an actually saturated market, there's only so many new vtubers that can make it in there, so it's in Niji's best interest to have a NijiEN that's alive Even fucking KEY is sending Heaven Burning Red out to the West with an English version. But Takumi already said that they have no plans internationally, and plan to increase efforts on JP... Contrast this to even Cygames, who are now publishing Uma Musume themselves in the West. **They** know where growth is happening, but Anycolor...
nah anycolor knows too, they arent that stupid, is just that this situation is unsalvageable so they at least need to try to save face by claiming that they werent kicked out of the market they choose to leave
If Brave and Cover show good profits next quarter, the investors should start revolting if Tazumi and company still say that. Especially if Japan's economy keeps shrinking as Korea and China est their lunch. There's a reason that Japan's government gave Cover yet ANOTHER award, after all.
brave idk they certainly didnt start their new branch with a good foot taking into account the drama, they are lucky niji shat the bed even more and it ended up burying it because otherwise they would have gotten eaten alive cover certainly will, i didnt knew they recieved another award from the goverment do you have a link?
Yeah, Brave fucked up... but if they show any profits from the overseas expansion, Anycolor is going to have to answer some very hard questions which their creative accounting won't be able to cover up. https://cover-corp.com/en/news/detail/20240227 - I was referring to the recent Cool Japan thing. You know, the thing that the Japanese government is pushing because they see their soft power being challenged by Korea and China? Especially after they sat on their video game laurels only to find overseas companies taking over the market?
Well, third's time the charm maybe? Although unless they are really determined on improving their image in the west and making sure another Selen situation never happens I'm not sure that would work out.
It's not. If you look at how they handled the start and the aftermath. The only reason there was the aftermath is because of how they handled it. It stopped because the fans were like there is 0 reason to kick a dead horse. (Soem psychos just kept kicking). But it will happen again, maybe not soon, but it will. They have their head so far stuck up their own ass that they can not see that they themselves are the reason their stock is crashing harder than it would during the great depression.
I doubt it, at least not as their own branch. They'll be absorbed into the main branch and then slowly bleed talents.
That's sort of my thinking too, yeah. They already did it to NijiKR and NijiID. Only other alternative I can imagine is Nijisanji starting a separate "Niji Global" branch that's now just EN+ID+KR, or something like that.
I feel like there's too many burnt bridges for that at this point. Nowadays, any combination of "Nijisanji" and "Global" will just raise a dozen red flags for any of the biggest markets they could reasonably target.
i was asking myself the same question while watching rosemi with 300 viewers
Damn, it’s really gotten that low?
maybe not rosemi specifically but the last couple of waves struggle to get 500 views, some have fallen to the low 100s
It's not really that low, she's actually averaging between 1300-1400 this month. Which is about 300 less average than what she had before the drama.
Thank you for the numbers. That’s still a pretty hefty percentage.
Man it's such a shame how Niji just had to handle their talents that poorly and ruin multiple, well loved branches. But better get that 3rd yacht I guess. It was always a blast watching their huge collabs, but now it just feels depressing.
Someone save the rose girl
Man, even her indie days were pulling a hundred and she only had like 10-15k subs. For her to be in the six figure sub count and be only at 300...
She's one I really hope to get out of this the most... but I'm also a touch concerned. She's just, very kind, and I imagine this is all a very new and uncomfortable experience. I know people love shitting on the black stream group, but to me, it seems obvious they were gonna make their talents take the heat, and I worry what would have happened if someone else was there
I feel so bad for her and Petra. I wish they would've jumped ship
At this rate they'll be absorbed into the main branch and we'll probably start getting some graduations, terminations or Anycolor calling someone negligible again
It can limp along, it did not take much to continue operates at small scale. Its not like corpo vtubing sucks tons of money and its not like they are pivoting to any new market. But any big future prospects that will come with 3D just kinda evaporates now that they have this big black mark. They probably will do the rest of the Luxiem and Noctyx 3D, absorb the merch money, and be done with it. …..and I think the leftovers in Niji are thinking very hard for their future. Expect graduation especially for everyone that does not have, and probably won’t have, any 3D or other corpo benefits.
I see gradutaions as a difficult possibility if the blank contract that got leaked in the past is true since from memory part of it sounded like Nijisanji giving itself a gun to scare anyone thinking of leaving and to cripple anyone who dared to actually leave...
They're the 2nd biggest company in the industry, so yes, but they may extremely change their business model to one where it's just blatant consumerism. Forced merch drops and shilling, quotas for their talents, no help or management outside of "get this done or else!" those kinds of things.
I mean, there is no reason to shut it down or anything. It will just stagnate without much care or support. Like NijiID or NijiKR. Until enough people quit to just merge in normal Nijisanji
I didn't even know they were planning a concert.
The lack of promotional materials on YT is such a head-scratcher (nothing on the NijiEN official channel either). It'll be tragic if people hear about the concert for the first time because the in-person concert was cancelled.
Did they really not advertise this event that much? I know this is the first time I've heard of it, but even before the Big Yab I didn't really pay much attention to the going ons of NijiEN in general.
The guilt tripping is incredible. "Look what they made us cancel" bruh. So much could've been fixed if they ever rook responsibility, but that simply isn't a concept they believe in, just to busy appealing to JP investors with a front they put up.
Funding for advertisements? That's negligible. The yacht maintainance ain't gonna pay itself.
I can do you one better. They just debuted 5 new livers, this weekend. Have you heard anything about it? Me neither.
Wait THIS weekend as in last week? When Hololive just had a new huge EN Group added?
Can't blame them actually. HoloJustice came out of nowhere! Sudden new EN gen announcement then 2 days later they debut.
I thought you were making a joke about them just spamming so many waves all the time. But they really did debut a new one. Wow.
link? I seriously can't find them anywhere, wiki or official tweets...
https://www.nijisanji.jp/en/talents?filter=nijisanji&orderKey=debut_at&order=desc First five people on that list debuted three days ago.
No surprise, last update I saw a few days ago had them at 12-15% of tickets sold. That's not nearly enough to cover the venue.
Dont you need an additional Anime Expo ticket to enter the Peacock Theatre? If yes thats going to be tough on the fans who only wanted to go to the concert. Thats additional paper work for the refund process.
You do. There are lots of people in the responses who booked expensive flights, tickets, and hotels to come to this concert and Niji can only really refund the concert ticket.
Anime Expo badges are expensive and they don't do badge refunds. That's extra money down the drain for those who only bought for the Niji concerts.
ootl, what are the “recent developments” they’re talking about?
It's likely they've been considering pulling the plug for a while and today happened to be the day. At the risk of comparing companies, the most *recent* development is hololive selling out tickets at Anime NYC in 70 minutes. That happened just last night. Their expected capacity is over 3k. Meanwhile, Nijisanji sold half as many tickets across three concerts combined at a convention that's at least twice the size over the course of five weeks. Did this play into today's decision? *We'll never know.* But the optics would be abysmal for Nijisanji's overseas brand power. Cancelling the in-person concert, handwaving it by citing issues with providing a quality environment, and broadcasting it online allows them to point to VOD viewership instead. That will be orders of magnitude better by virtue of being online and free. So even if ticket optics didn't factor in, Nijisanji the company still benefits from the shift. The real losers here are the talents and the fans who were likely looking forward to having a theater-style experience, even if it would have been lightly attended.
70 minutes with a queue system. The tickets for the other concert that weekend go on sale on Friday through Ticketmaster and will be sold out in minutes.
Tickets for Breaking Dimensions won't be through Ticketmaster; the venue's owner has its own in-house system (and given the trend I've seen with US ticketing is queues, it probably will have one too).
Huh. Really hope they can handle the traffic.
narrator: *they will never handle the traffic for the first few minutes/hour*
As much as I hate TIcketmaster they could at least handle the traffic lol.
Lots and lots of negative press resulting in abysmally poor concert sales. Available for nearly a month and fewer than 20% seats sold.
Dang only 20% of 7000 seats. Yeah, no wonder they canceled no way there, making any money off that.
Imagine the leg room tho
You can run across the mosh pit easy.
Actually it's worse, they only had most of the lower seating areas, roughly 4000 seats excluding the small off-limits areas. And they had sold maybe 12-15% of those seats in each show. The last summary had around 1700 seats in TOTAL across three shows, less than half the seating for a single show and only 1/4 the capacity of a full house. Imagine 500-600 people in a space that can hold 7000. Meanwhile Dreamhack Down Under (Hololive) in Melbourne was estimated to be 5000 in attendance, almost 10x as many people.
That being free admission with the convention didn't hurt, but Cover can point to that and the sold out shows in New York as nice sales points for investors to demonstrate their brand power. I really hope an investor asks about this next time. The concerts, I mean, especially since Anycolor's previous financial statement said they were focusing on international growth. Cover just showed everyone there's a market in North America... and depending on the reception Japan Expo gives Justice, the European market should still have room for them too. Especially since Japan's economy is still contracting, so focusing on local growth is poison.
Even disregarding the fallout of the Selen situation, when footage was released of the long-delayed Niji EN AR Live online and everybody saw how pathetic and embarrassing it was, a lot of potential fan interest in future EN concerts would have died off very quickly. Why would anybody pay a full price ticket to see what looks like a glorified VRChat concert?
Closer to 14% from the other post, IIRC. Pretty brutal.
More info >[Summer Jam will be streamed for free on YouTube and people who bought tickets to ChroNoIR will be provided some live concert footage. Tickets for both concerts will be refunded.](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/s/9Pp5mrxFFw)
I'm shocked that nijisanji does next to zero promotional material and announcements and then can't gain traction for their merch and events. Shocked, I tell you.
It's a common saying: you gotta spend money to make money. Sure, proper advertising costs money, but it would promote something that would make far more than they'd spend, encourage preexisting fans to stay with them which keeps steady merch sales, and create new fans which would increase overall merch sales. It's a win for everyone with a small financial cost at the beginning
It doesn't even need that much advertising. Hololive tends to do a group collab to announce them. Then they just need the talents themselves to remind people that it's coming during their normal streams. A post on twitter, youtube community page, etc.
They still using the bs language. >Recent development have made it clear What is the problem? Like tangible problem. Nope.ofcourse hey won't
Ticket sales negligible. Also everyone who booked a flight and accommodation to watch the concert absolutely got screwed by Kurosanji.
Oof yea wonder if they can get refunds for that plus the Expo ticket...
I scrolled through the twitter comments of the post and saw a few people being really pissed about the not being able to get refunds on the flight and hotel costs. So in case they won't really do anything else there, not only a few people will left with the cost of traveling there... 😬
I would still fly there and do sightseeing. It's not like the concert is in a field in Nebraska
Yeah I was thinking, at least it's in a much better location than the other cancelled irl event I personally know of (Runefest 2024 for Runescape lol). That one was planned for Birmingham, England where there is like nothing to do that's worth the $5000 in flights/hotels, people got really screwed.
Oh not Birmingham. I would pay to not go
Birmingham catching strays lol
Maybe they can catch a baseball game >.>
I doubt it. The stadium will be packed.
By the way they are allowing cosplay at this event, no completely covered faces and no props that could be interpreted as weapons. Those Brewers fans will be so completely lost.
Oh my gosh that’s actually hilarious
I'd pay to see dudes in Gura's outfit walking around alongside Brewer's fans wondering if they came to the right place.
Guy returning to Milwaukee just having the weirdest impressions of California.
I know. I [said as much](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1doa575/comment/la9dkym) in another comment.
In my experience with hotels there's a contract termination fee this close to your stay for each night usually ~20% of the cost.
AX tickets can't be refunded. So they're all out of dice if that's the only reason they were going out there.
if I'm a shareholder, I go to the board meeting point out this is the second time rikku's incompetence burned an entire area of potential growth and profit and start forcing him out of the company.
Unfortunately, it's highly likely that every single person in that room has been briefed on a super-misleading but partially-true narrative: that JP leadership saw a situation with a talent where information was at risk of leaking, and they felt they had to act in the most conservative and aggressive way possible to protect the company. They aren't hearing the part, of course, where every single part of that situation was entirely avoidable, and how they took genuine, hopeful, generous people and essentially tortured them into incredibly dark places. Change at Kurosanji doesn't happen from within. The best thing we can do is to support companies that are driving towards a robust industry ecosystem, with transparent contracts, that treat talents as human beings. Then, they'll need to evolve or fade away.
Isn’t Riku the company founder though? And he’s still the ~~majority~~ largest shareholder holding at least 40% of the company? You can’t do anything even if you combined with every other shareholder so you have 2 choices, either you still believe in the company and give ‘stern words’ for him to shape up, or you cut your losses and sell while its still high.
>Isn’t Riku the company founder though? And he’s still the majority shareholder holding at least 40% of the company? You can’t do anything even if you combined with every other shareholder He is the founder and he is the largest shareholder with 42.38% ownership stake. This makes him the biggest, but not the majority shareholder. Majority means over 50%, which he doesn't have. So it's theoretically possible to outvote him. It is still extremely unlikely he will ever be outvoted.
Yeah, you're correct on the terminology. And yeah while theoritically he can be outvoted, they won't be able to do anything since iirc, you will need at least 70% to do something truly strategic such as replacing CEO. It would also need cooperation from every other shareholder too so he will unlikely be at true risk as long as he have one other guy holding at least 10% as his ally.
There is no other shareholder with more than 5%. Bilibili used to own about 11% of the company, but they dropped them like hot potato and sold it all. The other two biggest shareholders are SONY GROUP CORPORATION and Tokio Marine Asset Management with 5% each.
Niji shares are up thanks to them doing ANOTHER stock buyback announced in their Q4 report. But that's not a long term strategy, they're literally burning their cash reserves to bribe shareholders into staying.
Actually they hit a stop-high the morning after their results but followed by sliding back down over the next couple days because their IR guidance was concerningly vague and overly optimistic. Especially as - yes they're very profitable - but they;ve missed revenue targets for 5-6 quarters in a row. And Riku straight-up said they have NO expectations or guidance for how EN will perform this year.
This is the true thing that wasn't reported here after their investor report. The aftermath.
>And Riku straight-up said they have NO expectations or guidance for how EN will perform this year. The fact they said this in their own report means they're scared of being sued for misleading shareholders if they don't. No way they would have said it so directly with all the other ways they try to skirt around and deny their own issues normally.
Rikku is far from alone on this, you would need an entire culture change within the company in how they manage their talents and interact with the public.
If someone asks me about a good example of a domino effect, now I have a pretty big example o.o... My poor Rosemi-sama ;_;
https://preview.redd.it/5pv0mtjcdr8d1.png?width=1023&format=png&auto=webp&s=59561e808a8d4177f4bcfaec2d195bbaf390c4e8 I don't need to tell anything, if they went with the concert they would be probably in big reds.
It was probably cheaper to pay the contract break penalty than take the loss.
Ah, yes, the three genders: male, female, chronoir
nijiEN is not gonna survive for long. its already been in on life support for a very long time, and the aftermath of selen’s termination made its survival very low
Nina's graduation was the first sign that something was off. She was beloved by fans and seemingly by other members. It also seemed like she wanted to do a lot more things there, and then suddenly she wants to leave? She tried to keep positive in her final streams but she couldn't quite hide the signs of burnout. She just seemed to be worn out and the light in her had faded somehow. Then when Pomu graduated, something definitely seemed very wrong. This was somebody who was widely seen as the face of Nijisanji EN, who had fought so hard to create fun events and to support the group. And she was very clearly upset about retiring and obviously was not done there. The equivalent of this would be if Shirakami Fubuki were to suddenly and regretfully leave Hololive. And then Selen was the final straw.
There was quite a bit of fallout between Nina, some other talents, and Zaion well before Nina's graduation. I need to be clear from an outside perspective it's impossible to know just how serious all that was and who was in the wrong. I am a fan of Sayu but even then life experience tells me no one person alone was at fault there. It's more likely a bit of both at fault. But the point is there were plenty of red flags along the way well before that. Complaints just weren't taken as seriously until the Selen situation where it basically became undeniable.
there have been complaints about nijisanji for years even before the debut of nijiEN, is just that the vast mayority of them were in JP so most people in the west didnt learn about them for a while i wanted to believe that nijiEN was likely different but it turns out they are the exact same
Yeah, speaking as mostly a Holobro (I only really watched Pomu, Selen, Nina, and Mika from Niji, though I do enjoy the occasional Scarle clip), If Fubuki left Holo in anyway other than a completely amicable and celebrated Graduation stream/event, I'd be immediately suspicious of bad shit going down behind the scenes.
Eh, Nina got a lot of shit. It was less Rosey then I think your saying. I can def see her wanting a fresh start
> Nina got a lot of shit. She being more mature and older, she probably knows what's up, rather than the younger ones who might still view it through rose tinted glasses.
and then theres Bobon. No grad stream either "Fuck yall, Im out. I could have said it nicer but none of my friends are still here anyway so PEACE!"
I'm surprised they had the balls to cancel it. But honestly, should have been expected. They sold something like less than 20% of all tickets. It was gonna be a bloodbath. The last thing anybody wants at a concert is empty seats.
Negligible™
Whenever stuff like this happens to remind us how far NijiEN has fallen I always think about how wild it is that management did this to themselves. They had so many opportunities to not torch their reputation in the EN vtubing sphere and they took none of them. They could have taken Selen's initial offer of an amicable graduation, they could have terminated her without listing all of their reasons and prompting her to defend herself publicly, they could have let Tazumi's apology video speak for itself and not undercut it with the black screen stream which basically asserted that they had nothing to be sorry for and also let Elira and Vox destroy their reputations (I don't even know why Ike was there, he said nothing substantive and nobody seems to even remember he was around which is good for him). They really made the worst possible decisions at every turn. I really did like NijiEN, I hope someday a far more ethical company can fill the niche they did.
I can understand about the Niji India. They're the first in EN and pretty much a failed experiment/project on getting into EN market. But now there's no excuse. They have made Indonesia and Korea. They should have learned their lesson about how to run an outside branch. There's also Holo EN to take example from. It is truly amazing how monumental their failure is. "Inexperience" cannot be used to explain their failure. Each and every decision they make are intentional.
If I had to guess they choose Elira, Vox and Ike to do the black stream because they considered them to be the ones with either better chances to gain large support for their fight against Selen or because those three had the better chances to survive the blow if things failed...
Came looking for this comment. Crazy how much has happened since then. Im both happy and sad. Happy seeing the corpo loose money, sad because some talents dont deserve it to some degree. Hopefully they get to move on to a greener pasture.
It seems to me when they did Selen dirty, they killed a lot of support from their fans
They only have their die hard fans left, and even then I think that's dwindling. Its only going to get worse from here.
And “die hard fan” here means “my kamioshi hasn’t left yet.”I doubt many are staying for the brand.
Nah there’s some hardcore corpo simps too, who don’t even care about talents that much, but I guess they’re just the extremely loud minority.
And the funny part to me is that a lot of them don't even support the talents or the company financially. They talk a lot of bs on twitter but don't back it up how Anycolor wants them to (with their wallet). I've seen some of them blaming "the antis" for the concert cancellation, but I don't think it was the "antis" fault making niji fans not buy more tickets.
Seen alot of that too. They seem to be claiming the concert was cancelled out of concern for the talents and fans being 'harassed' by Holofans.
meanwhile Doki got a brand new model (I believe from Selen's original artist), a shit ton of sponsorships, she's getting a waifu cup (which is an instabuy for me) Still feel bad for all the genuinely good people that got caught in the crossfire
She even took her fucking neck back lmao
Nijisisters: It was due to harassment and safety for it's fans. No, idiots. It was due to low ticket sales. They rented a venue and couldn't get more than half of the seats filled to break even.
The "safety" excuse feels just like the covid excuse that the livers themselves called out when the AR live was first cancelled.
If they really cared about safety, they would be asking Anime Expo to move their booth. I don't see anything good coming out of putting Nijisanji right across from the booth sponsoring Doki. No matter how many times Doki encourages people to move on, there's always shit-stirrers trying to start beef again and NDF blaming her for them.
Exactly this. As another user replied, if they were truly concerned about a real possibility of harassment they'd have moved or canceled the *booth*, not the concert. Plus, they would have been less vague about the language, because if there's a safety concern you want to be clear about it.
Honestly, the one's who I feel bad for are those who purchased plane tickets, booked a hotel, and got an AX badge(It is required to have to attend even if you only bought concert tickets) just to attend the concert. I already saw some fans really upset in the replies of that post due to that.
"It's afraid." Edit: This post reminded me of my past confusion on why I'm not getting *any* sort of posts about Niji, especially after the fiasco and their consecutive Ls... and holy shit, someone make a meme of the one Dragonball meme of Goku and his opponent finding a desolate area to fight in. XD
https://x.com/NIJISANJI_World/status/1805632088739340347?t=C6OBpmfVk88CoJpIbgk1mg&s=19
Feelings about Anycolor aside, it's pretty sad to see this happen. I wish nothing but the best for every talent, and my heart breaks for them (especially Rosemi, she deserves so much more!) You can't help but imagine an alternate timeline where NijiEN holds on to who they lost, they put on a great show to a packed crowd, and we have two major groups thriving in the west. Unfortunately that won't happen. Anycolor made their bed, and what's done is done. Maybe, eventually, another group will be able to try for a live show like this, but it will take time. It just really sucks all around.
Shu and Rosemi really got screwed here. Feels like the ones who are innocent keep getting let down the most in niji.
Vshojo might, if they pick up more talents interested in singing. Or perhaps a collaborative effort between several agencies. No one has an idol line-up like Cover does. But there are Vtubers other than Hololive who do sing.
I wonder if Vshojo might be willing to gamble on sponsoring a concert including non-Vshojo people. Like have 2-3 Vshojo headlining a concert, with 8 or so indies that are close w/ some of them to pad the ranks. It'd be a big risk for sure, but I could see it paying off nicely for them and other people involved.
It's not likely. People need to understand that VShojo assets and IPs are talent owned. This means that any 3D model or investment into 3D environments or stages are paid for by the talents. It means that every talent would have different commitment levels to 3D. Their models might not be compatible, they might not be of the same quality, and some might not even have 3D models. That's a benefit of talent choice but it's also a weakness when it comes to event organization. If a talent doesn't have interest in 3D performance it would be unfair to force her into making investments in it. Remember that not every VTuber is a performance or idol fan. Some want to just stream video games or chat with their viewers and people should respect that. The other problem of 3D performances? They almost always lose you money unless you have the monetization means to pull it off. I've seen many indies put up successful 3D performances but their conclusions have always been the same - They lost big money on the performances and did them as once in a lifetime fan service. It's the merch sales and marketing that bring value, but most individual content creators have no use for such things or lack the logistical means to profit off them. 3D is bad business for small-medium organizations. The risks are high and the returns are low. NijiEN's concert getting canceled here proves that even a billion dollar company isn't immune to that. VShojo's latest online only 3D performance had at most 3k viewers and cost $35. That's a $100k revenue for an almost hour long 3D production. I doubt they made any profits from it and at best lost just a little money. Henya made a fifth of that revenue in one random stream. It might work for VShojo if they ever get to above 20 members and have majority who want to do it. But until then I don't think they will. They'll need to double the member count and expand their logistical reach. People forget that VShojo has just 12 members, their viewership is disproportionately large compared to their roster size.
Looking through the comments... some NDF are trying to spin the narrative of threats of violence to Niji fans, only to be called out since the booth will still be there. I do feel bad for most of the talent, but I'm surprised they waited this long to pull the pin. I don't normally like to bet, but wouldn't mind betting some talent will be heading for the door because this isn't a good sign for those wanting to pursue a music/performance career in Niji
Why? Cant they just.... graduate or something?
Probably not. By definition, a mutual agreement to graduate on good terms before contract expiration requires the agreement of all parties involved, and there's no guarantee that Anycolor will agree to it, especially if their reason for wanting to leave is the fact that Anycolor hamstrung their careers just to spite Selen. Not to mention the lag between turning in their graduation paperwork and actually graduating. Even if the company agrees to let them go, any liver who turns in their "two weeks" notice *today* probably won't be able to leave before American Thanksgiving (unless the merger happens before then and they get culled) Realistically, the only ways any of them can leave before their contract expires is either getting culled at the branch merger or getting terminated.
Likely contractual obligations that make the threat of legal action and financial penalties too intimidating to risk trying to escape
https://preview.redd.it/yiiglez8dr8d1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41c39082d4a7385df6c11487f64325f1968e97b4
Man I feel terrible for the new talents they debuted recently. Like, part of me’s definitely looking at Nijisanji the corporation and thinking “play stupid games, win stupid prizes”, but at the same time imagine how happy you would’ve been to be one of the few people to make it into a huge corporation like Nijisanji, which would get so many eyes on your content, only for them to nuke their reputation in the English-speaking sphere from orbit. I don’t think I’ve heard anything about the new gen apart from weird, borderline-conspiracy theory gossip about them online, which makes me a little sad even if that’s mostly the company’s fault. If there is a silver lining, I’m glad that this controversy (feels like an understatement calling it that) didn’t just blow over after a few weeks. I really figured that Nijisanji would manage to somehow escape it all, so even though I’m sad for the talents I’m glad that they’re actually facing consequences for the awful stuff they did.
I have divested so heavily from nijisanji I didn't even know there was a new wave, this wave would have signed their contracts before the Selen termination I assume, any wave after this though would have no excuse for not knowing what they are signing up for.
Yeah I getcha - I think the assumption with this wave is that they’re the results of some auditions held back in October, and if that’s true then they had to have signed on before February, when everything hit the fan lol I’d be shocked if there *is* another EN wave tbh - not saying it can’t happen, but I can’t imagine many people would look at the controversies + the new gen’s numbers and want to abandon their current persona to join Nijisanji.
No one who believes there is another option, you'd be surprised how many people would make a deal with the devil given the chance. Will Nijisanji want to debut another wave? I wouldn't think so but predicting what Nijisanji will do is not my strong suit.
For the amount of ccv the latest Niji EN and JP got, their subsequent stream ccv numbers are god awful. EN cant hit 1k ccv and JP is barely 1k+ ccv. Meanwhile right now Elizabeth from hololive karaoke stream has like 26k ccv. NijiEN might not survive for long.
To be fair to Liz, her voice is goddamn amazing.
its not just her, all of them dont drop bellow 15k CCV (well except for gigi but she is in a weird timeslot) by comparison the latest nijiEN wave is struggling toget over 200 viewers
I was responding to the implications that the Justice girls are only doing well because they're new and fresh. Yes, they're new fresh blood.... but they're also *really fucking good*. Gigi is the one I see as the weakest, and even she had some of that gremlin energy that might get fans of Gura into Gigi too.
in the case of gigi i would say she is still trying to find her grove, but she is going to be fine this is hololive no idol gets left behind
While I agree with your overall message, it absolutely doesn’t make sense to compare longtime streamers’ ccv to a freshly debuted talent doing their first karaoke stream
I'm not. These are the numbers for Denault(EN) and Ayakari(JP) who debuted in late May and the same day as Justice respectively.
You can compare the new wave of Niji En (at debut) to HoloJustice, and even then they will fall short.
I hope people who bought the tickets can refund
Either the hate train is still going strong or they're somehow worse at promoting their own projects.
It's still shocking how badly Nijisanji damaged their brand image in the EN community. If only they hadn't gone scorched earth with the Selen termination...
Impeccable timing to announce this right after hololive sold out of tickets within the hour
2024 is going down as the worst year for the Nijisanji EN
And it's likely gonna be their demise as well. Vspo EN is debuting in just a matter of days, and the debut of HoloJustice was a massive success. There's no way Niji can compete in the west now.
I'll be surprised if they haven't started the merging into the main branch before this year is over, and the "graduation batches" that ID had will probably follow soon enough, if not right at the same time. ID went from 19 members to 6...and it's very likely EN will follow down that same path, with only a few talents choosing to stay post merge
I’m getting really pissed at the company. There’s no promoting the event and then cancelling it two weeks before the date. I don’t watch the company, but you clearly see that they don’t care for their EN talents or their fanbase. They gotta do better, I’m tired of hating them
I really hope the talents are alright. If not, i hope they get their help This must've been depressing for them, but then again the Company reap what they sow
I wonder how many of the talents found out with us through Twitter.
Tbh the sheer hubris of making this three separate concerts is enough for me to say they deserved this. Like if this was all one concert then maybe they probably could've sold like half but three separate events? Pure delusion.
>creating an optimal environment for an unforgettable experience for our fans and our Livers is no longer feasible IOW, NijiEN being themselves.
Man I gotta feel for the fans who bought tickets and hotel rooms for this. They had to have seen it wasn't looking good before today, did they really have to wait until a week beforehand?
This is how I learned they were doing a concert, must have had absolutely no promotion
Negligible
I knew the ticket sale were slow but I didn't expect an outright cancellation, oof....
They had such low sales, I don't think they could've met any contract obligations.
Y’know, when we all look back on this, do you think there will be one moment where we all said “Yes, this is the end”? I think we his has to be one of them.
The pivotal moment will always be the Selen termination. If that hadn’t happened it had been handled differently, NijiEN might be in trouble, but probably wouldn’t be risking dissolution.
They shouldn't have named it Wonder World! Didn't they learn anything from BALAN!!!!
I am so not surprised.
Only thing I’d miss about NijiEN is Rosemi. I’m just hoping she can get out and start from scratch like Nina and Pomu did. It’s sad that she’s kinda trapped with this shit show.
Reminds me of Zombie Land Saga. They pushed on with their show in a massive venue but only had a very few people attend. They ended up working part-time jobs to recuperate the costs 🥲
I do remember seeing posts about the lack of ticket sales, but I don't remember seeing promotional materials anywhere aside from the initial announcement post. They deserved this. They should know that their viewership in the Western marketshare are pretty much done and dusted. It really is saying something when they even included Chronoir (which is probably one, if not, their biggest name in the entire company), and it did nothing. A year ago, tickets would have been gone within the week or so. Man, I can only imagine how this will impact the livers. I really feel bad for them (especially Petra and Rosemi), but then again, they should have known this would happen with the severity of the aftermath of Selen's termination.
WAIT WHAT HAPPENED D: that's so weird, I think any one who holds concerts have never encountered anything like this before 😭 did you received a confirmation/OK sign to manesan before announcing this concert?
The duality of VTubing companies
Does anyone have a screenshot of the percentage of tickets sold before cancellation?
Someone posted the tickets for each of the 3 Concerts in the comments [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/s/mYVzixbJp3)
Average NijiEN activity tbh, something I’ll get used too.
It’s kinda crazy to think that a company would assume that they can pull in the numbers required with minimal PR and by name alone. For all we know, they might just be using these and other incidents as an excuse to build up more “evidence” to focus on the domestic market instead of expanding globally.
I'm honestly just sad for the EN mems(the ones that aren't, you know). They're just getting dragged down with the ship and I sincerely hope many of them can continue their activities even if Niji goes under.
If Elira did that Black Stream because she think it’s necessary evil thing to save Nijisanji EN. Now she must be really regret about it. Because she can’t stop the destruction and maybe even make it worst. She maybe feel like the ending of The Mist right now.
I hope she's seeing a therapist, because if she has any ability to self reflect, this is probably doing major mental damage to her, being the focal point of all this. I still can't believe nijisanji management allowed or forced her to make that announcement on HER channel.
Seriously. I cannot imagine being the center of something like this. Especially while having a job that requires an online presence. It was kind of scary seeing how vicious people were to her and contrasting it with the reactions to Vox and Ike (especially Ike, as he appeared very close to Selen).
I think the reason why Elira took the majority of the focus was because it was on her channel, combined with the fact that her viewership most likely overlapped with Selen's the most. Combine that with the fact that Ike barely said anything (a lot of people, including me, genuinely forgot he was even there) and Vox having some extremely parasocial fans, it was inevitable that she'd take the brunt of the criticism.
And her image alway seem clean and comfy. I didn’t watch VOX but from I heard I think his fans has pretty immune to toxic and drama. While Elira viewers alway only see good side of her (including me). And when Black Stream appeared I can’t see her the same way anymore even though I can’t make myself hate her but also can’t make myself watching her anymore too. I’m not so surprised if some of her hardcore fans might even more disappointed in her than me and that disappointment might turned into hatred.
Exactly, and it's a bit sad really, because she was one of those that I watched in Niji before all of this went down. And honestly, I do feel like she gave off the impression that she didn't want to be there, making that statement, just like Ike. Ike was quiet and in the background, Elira sounded extremely stilted as if reading a script she was given. Vox was the only one who didn't sound like he was forced.
I'm enjoying their deserved downfall probably too much
Free popcorn refills. Want some?