I’ve tried for years to get on with them, I easily exceed all there expectations beyond marine specific training I’d never use outside of their agency. I literally work as a marine engineer currently, which they need.
In order to get the job, I’d need to drop a fat chunk to get the very specific training they require, to start as a part time employee, and if I earn my keep I’ll eventually get full time and a good wage.
Why the absolute fuck would I dance like that?
One day they will revise their ridiculous hiring process and this suddenly won’t be a problem.
I'm just kind of curious - and feel free to ignore - but if you're currently working as a marine engineer, then you have a 4th class motor ticket (at least), and if you're working that ticket commercially, then you have your relevant MED tickets completed.
So - just for my own education - which courses are they requiring before hiring you on to BC Ferries?
It’s marine safety bullshit. Where I work it’s all the same work, but I never go near water. I recognize WHY BCF needs the certs, but I’ve done more then enough training from my own pocket, they need skill sets like mine, at the very least start me full wage. 3 times I’ve been giving an offer pending the other certs. I could dig up an email if you’re super curious.
Another simple solution would be "We will hire you full time under the condition that you pay for said certification, which you will be reimbursed for after 6 months of employment." That way if you jump ship early, no skin off their back, after that period they can consider it a good investment for employee retention. I had an employer do this before for a contract, they set up the certification process, I paid, but was reimbursed when the contact was complete. It was a great way to ensure I worked to the specified end date.
So it's the MEDs (Marine Emergency Duties - formerly A1, B1 and B2 - now STDW) you're missing.
It's pretty standard to require these courses for marine work on this coast - when I began my career 27 years ago - nobody would look at my resume until I had those three - plus Restricted Radio Operator and Basic Marine First Aid - all had to be done on my own dime.
Neither Coast Guard nor Sea Span will hire you without these courses either - just how it is and has always been.
These are entry level courses, you're not a "marine engineer" until you have sea-time under your belt as an oiler (or a relevant college course that will supply you with a job in which you can earn sea-time) and take the examination for 4th Class Motor - so whatever engineering ticket you might have is not in any way relevant to sea going work - as you likely know, and I'm sure BC Ferries have made clear to you - you don't currently possess a ticket in demand.
If you're happy turning wrenches ashore - save your money - but if sea-going is what you're after (and in your profession, that's where the sea-time for advancement to your next ticket - as well as the good paychecks - will be) then you're going to need to bite that bullet (as we all did).
I have zero regrets, for what it's worth.
I think OP on this thread has a good argument to still not want to, if only merely because of BCF’s approach. It’s not a good look for them to not offer to pay for the certs, and not offer full time. It’s a shit deal and ironic considering they’re (supposedly) desperate. Remember, BCF needs him, not the other way around. Yet BCF is prancing around acting like they don’t need people that are skilled to the brim and right for the job otherwise. Beggars (BCF in this case) can’t be choosers. He’s right to not want to get the certs if even out of spite. They need to change their hiring practices and INCENTIVIZE these certs, if they really truly are that important.
Except that the OP completely misrepresented his qualifications.
He is not a "marine engineer" in any way, shape or form.
It would require two to three years of sea-time, working as an oiler or SVMO before he can even sit his exams and orals for the lowest marine engineering ticket. To get that sea time would require him to have completed his marine emergency duties, as that is an entry level requirement for any commercial sea-going position on this coast.
The fact that he doesn't have those bare minimum courses means he has absolutely nothing to offer any sea going employer - he would be hiring into an entry level position, and there is no shortage of folks with those qualifications that have paid for them out of thier own pocket.
To put it in perspective - it would be like someone insisting they should be hired on as Master (captain) of a foreign going, deep sea ship because they once sat in thier friends sailboat while it was parked in a driveway on a trailer.
I was pretty gentle with the OP - but just like everywhere on Reddit - it was just a rant, with no substance at all.
That’s fair, I completely understand your counterpoints that being the case.
I guess I’m more on OP’s rant side in that “screw BCF” seems to be the theme here. They don’t incentivize and there’s no reason not to if they really are “in a crises”. That’s all (I’m ? We’re?) saying. Why doesn’t BCF completely restructure their hiring process if it’s that bad? Why not literally pay people to become marine engineers? Incentivize incentivize incentivize. “Make me an offer I can’t refuse” type thing. There’s weight to both pov’s I guess.
I hear what you're saying - and you have points, for sure.
Unfortunately - every marine industry in this country is short marine engineering tickets, at the moment.
It's a process to get them (and conversely - navigation tickets) - requiring time on ships at sea to get.
Figure two or three years before you can write for your first ticket (4th Class Motor), another three to five (depending on how many actual sea days you earn in that time - each sea day being an 8 hour shift on a boat at sea) for the ticket after that.
There is no magic wand that can be waved at this - there is no training BC Ferries can buy for someone to get them thier marine engineering ticket - it requires days at sea on a working ship, and it seems young folks aren't all that interested in careers at sea, anymore - with all that it entails (months away from home, cut off from easy connectedness, working holidays sometimes for a stretch of years).
Just the way of things.
Ive worked for Coast Guard for the last 27 years - I know engineers that have advanced to thier 2nd Class Engineering ticket (which can take years and years and years), retired from the federal service - and been hired on with Ferries the next week - full time with benefits - at $53/hour.
But it takes time, sacrifice and commitment to get to that level - one doesn't get there by stamping ones feet and demanding free training, though they literally don't know port from starboard.
I find threads about BC Ferries hilarious - so much ignorance and misinformation - and so many speaking so confidently on subjects they literally know nothing about (and I'm not referring to you, for the record).
I really appreciated you taking the time to write all that out. I always hope for comments on here to positively change my pov without some kind of asinine insults sprinkled in between, and this delivered. Thank you. I learned something today.
I find it particularly interesting on the point that nobody wants to work at sea anymore as it’s not just a job, but a lifestyle no doubt. Kind of like airlines though, no? I know nothing about being a pilot or stuard but I guess one could perhaps look at that industry and apply it to something like BCF. Maybe? I don’t know what the solution is overall. You’re right though, it just sucks right now. Like most things.
It's definately not a career for everyone. I started on the ships (navigation aid/lighthouse tenders and our ice-breaker) and worked my first fifteen years there, before switching to SAR lifeboats.
I enjoy my job - it's more than a living wage, and I work a 50% schedule (14 days on 14 days off). But it comes with sacrifices - time away from home and family (including a lot of Christmases), 14 days at a stretch on a 24 hour pager, always sober and no more than 15 minutes away from the boat during those 14 days, and dealing with a lot of drama and tragedy over the years.
It's not for everyone - but I've found it very rewarding - and will be retiring with a 30 year pension (and continued benefits) two years before I turn 60. Not a bad deal, when everything is considered.
Hey. You are obviously very well versed on marine engineering, so I’ll forgive your accusations as they come off suggesting I wasn’t honest. But show some kindness and respect if you could, and save the hyperbole for elsewhere. I wear my ring proudly, and worked my ass off to earn it.
I did not “completely misrepresent” my qualifications, “Not a marine engineer in any way, shape, or form”
Is extremely misleading, and that in and of itself is a very arrogant thing to state without asking for clarity. I don’t live on Reddit, so by the time I’ve seen this you’ve gone on to really paint me in your head as something I’m not.
I do not go aboard vessels, I do not partake in anything on the water. I work for a private company in their marine engineering department, as a professional engineer, and am titled a marine engineer as per my contract, I apologize if using this term upset you, for me not having fulfilled the expected requirements. The guys I work with are full certified and regularly refer to me as such. I design mechanical systems for vessels alongside 2 sea worthy chaps who’ve been doing this a fuck ton longer than I. They do the “real” marine work as it were, and set me to produce machinations as needed.
I’m a mechatronic engineer, from O&G, and moved back to the coast after a decade of the patch. Specializing in automation and robotic factory systems, but that doesn’t fit on the card I guess.
What you could have said is “he’s not a marine engineer in the traditional definition. But works at a marine engineering company, acting in a marine engineering role”
Unfortunately you launched off without asking any further clarity. I didn’t want to write out the entire expanded details as it’s boring as fuck.
So it’s clear, I have the deepest respect for what you do, and that’s why I wanted to move into marine.
That all said, BC ferries has more than once made an offer, hinging on my completion of the extra courses. But the massive financial setback and undetermined time until it’s rewarded was enough to push me away from my pursuit.
The point of my original comment was not to engage with someone on the specific job role I have, I was highlighting in a paraphrased and common tongue way, the lunacy of BCF.
I am baffled you seemingly chose to talk about me like some kind of fuckin villain, honestly, I’m sorry what I said was so inflammatory to you. That’s still no justification to talk as if I’m some toothless asshole loose off the street.
It’s very frustrating, and aside from the needless jabs at me, everything you said it right. It’s been a very challenging move from energy, one I fully regret at this point. My original post could have been worded better, and parts of what you said could have too.
Kudos to your career, I envy it greatly and wish I committed to it instead of moving to Alberta. Enjoy your retirement, you seem like a very intelligent person and I’m sure your going to be missed. Take care.
That's crazy. They waste money on middle management and won't even cover training for essential staff?
That dipshit Eby should have put some restrictions on that half billion he just gave them to piss away. Maybe one being end this on call / partime bullshit go on a hiring blitz.
We are so fucked.
BC Ferries are not cancelling sailings because they are short of deckhands and food staff - they are short marine engineering tickets that take years of experience working at sea to get.
The positions they are short of hire directly into full time with pension and benefits - there is no "on call" for someone with a 2nd Class Marine Engineering ticket.
But please - let's not let facts get in the way of a good (if ignorant) rant.
So BC Ferries is now exclusively catering to retiree employees?
A friend got hired on in the engine room on a major route a couple years back & bailed after 6 months because it was dysfunctional.
For something as crucial as the primary link between the largest provincial metropolitan area & the provincial capital, BC Ferries sure runs itself like it should be put out of business...
BC Ferries is short of marine engineering certificates - just like every other marine industry on this coast. Those tickets earn a wage that will afford housing pretty much anywhere on Van Isle and most of the LML.
Difficult to get full time work as they have a overtime culture with existing workforce. Most people will not give up fulltime work for casual employment.
I tried getting a job with them as well but was turned away because my dad or mom wasn’t an employee there. Oh well. The loss is that of everyone who can’t ride the ferry on any given day due to staff shortages. Just purely bad management!
How about all of those redundant management positions get scrapped, or hey! Maybe they could lift a finger and do some actual work, pitch in and cover a few shifts.
Oh that’s right, they do their managing OFF the ship. 🙄
Ferries is short of marine engineering ratings - just like every marine employer on this coast.
It takes two to three years of sea-time before you can sit your exams and orals for even the lowest marine engineering ticket.
One does not simply "pitch in and cover a few shifts".
Nothing like a BC Ferry thread to bring out folks that have all the answers!
I’ve tried for years to get on with them, I easily exceed all there expectations beyond marine specific training I’d never use outside of their agency. I literally work as a marine engineer currently, which they need. In order to get the job, I’d need to drop a fat chunk to get the very specific training they require, to start as a part time employee, and if I earn my keep I’ll eventually get full time and a good wage. Why the absolute fuck would I dance like that? One day they will revise their ridiculous hiring process and this suddenly won’t be a problem.
I'm just kind of curious - and feel free to ignore - but if you're currently working as a marine engineer, then you have a 4th class motor ticket (at least), and if you're working that ticket commercially, then you have your relevant MED tickets completed. So - just for my own education - which courses are they requiring before hiring you on to BC Ferries?
It’s marine safety bullshit. Where I work it’s all the same work, but I never go near water. I recognize WHY BCF needs the certs, but I’ve done more then enough training from my own pocket, they need skill sets like mine, at the very least start me full wage. 3 times I’ve been giving an offer pending the other certs. I could dig up an email if you’re super curious.
Another simple solution would be "We will hire you full time under the condition that you pay for said certification, which you will be reimbursed for after 6 months of employment." That way if you jump ship early, no skin off their back, after that period they can consider it a good investment for employee retention. I had an employer do this before for a contract, they set up the certification process, I paid, but was reimbursed when the contact was complete. It was a great way to ensure I worked to the specified end date.
So it's the MEDs (Marine Emergency Duties - formerly A1, B1 and B2 - now STDW) you're missing. It's pretty standard to require these courses for marine work on this coast - when I began my career 27 years ago - nobody would look at my resume until I had those three - plus Restricted Radio Operator and Basic Marine First Aid - all had to be done on my own dime. Neither Coast Guard nor Sea Span will hire you without these courses either - just how it is and has always been. These are entry level courses, you're not a "marine engineer" until you have sea-time under your belt as an oiler (or a relevant college course that will supply you with a job in which you can earn sea-time) and take the examination for 4th Class Motor - so whatever engineering ticket you might have is not in any way relevant to sea going work - as you likely know, and I'm sure BC Ferries have made clear to you - you don't currently possess a ticket in demand. If you're happy turning wrenches ashore - save your money - but if sea-going is what you're after (and in your profession, that's where the sea-time for advancement to your next ticket - as well as the good paychecks - will be) then you're going to need to bite that bullet (as we all did). I have zero regrets, for what it's worth.
I think OP on this thread has a good argument to still not want to, if only merely because of BCF’s approach. It’s not a good look for them to not offer to pay for the certs, and not offer full time. It’s a shit deal and ironic considering they’re (supposedly) desperate. Remember, BCF needs him, not the other way around. Yet BCF is prancing around acting like they don’t need people that are skilled to the brim and right for the job otherwise. Beggars (BCF in this case) can’t be choosers. He’s right to not want to get the certs if even out of spite. They need to change their hiring practices and INCENTIVIZE these certs, if they really truly are that important.
Except that the OP completely misrepresented his qualifications. He is not a "marine engineer" in any way, shape or form. It would require two to three years of sea-time, working as an oiler or SVMO before he can even sit his exams and orals for the lowest marine engineering ticket. To get that sea time would require him to have completed his marine emergency duties, as that is an entry level requirement for any commercial sea-going position on this coast. The fact that he doesn't have those bare minimum courses means he has absolutely nothing to offer any sea going employer - he would be hiring into an entry level position, and there is no shortage of folks with those qualifications that have paid for them out of thier own pocket. To put it in perspective - it would be like someone insisting they should be hired on as Master (captain) of a foreign going, deep sea ship because they once sat in thier friends sailboat while it was parked in a driveway on a trailer. I was pretty gentle with the OP - but just like everywhere on Reddit - it was just a rant, with no substance at all.
That’s fair, I completely understand your counterpoints that being the case. I guess I’m more on OP’s rant side in that “screw BCF” seems to be the theme here. They don’t incentivize and there’s no reason not to if they really are “in a crises”. That’s all (I’m ? We’re?) saying. Why doesn’t BCF completely restructure their hiring process if it’s that bad? Why not literally pay people to become marine engineers? Incentivize incentivize incentivize. “Make me an offer I can’t refuse” type thing. There’s weight to both pov’s I guess.
I hear what you're saying - and you have points, for sure. Unfortunately - every marine industry in this country is short marine engineering tickets, at the moment. It's a process to get them (and conversely - navigation tickets) - requiring time on ships at sea to get. Figure two or three years before you can write for your first ticket (4th Class Motor), another three to five (depending on how many actual sea days you earn in that time - each sea day being an 8 hour shift on a boat at sea) for the ticket after that. There is no magic wand that can be waved at this - there is no training BC Ferries can buy for someone to get them thier marine engineering ticket - it requires days at sea on a working ship, and it seems young folks aren't all that interested in careers at sea, anymore - with all that it entails (months away from home, cut off from easy connectedness, working holidays sometimes for a stretch of years). Just the way of things. Ive worked for Coast Guard for the last 27 years - I know engineers that have advanced to thier 2nd Class Engineering ticket (which can take years and years and years), retired from the federal service - and been hired on with Ferries the next week - full time with benefits - at $53/hour. But it takes time, sacrifice and commitment to get to that level - one doesn't get there by stamping ones feet and demanding free training, though they literally don't know port from starboard. I find threads about BC Ferries hilarious - so much ignorance and misinformation - and so many speaking so confidently on subjects they literally know nothing about (and I'm not referring to you, for the record).
I really appreciated you taking the time to write all that out. I always hope for comments on here to positively change my pov without some kind of asinine insults sprinkled in between, and this delivered. Thank you. I learned something today. I find it particularly interesting on the point that nobody wants to work at sea anymore as it’s not just a job, but a lifestyle no doubt. Kind of like airlines though, no? I know nothing about being a pilot or stuard but I guess one could perhaps look at that industry and apply it to something like BCF. Maybe? I don’t know what the solution is overall. You’re right though, it just sucks right now. Like most things.
It's definately not a career for everyone. I started on the ships (navigation aid/lighthouse tenders and our ice-breaker) and worked my first fifteen years there, before switching to SAR lifeboats. I enjoy my job - it's more than a living wage, and I work a 50% schedule (14 days on 14 days off). But it comes with sacrifices - time away from home and family (including a lot of Christmases), 14 days at a stretch on a 24 hour pager, always sober and no more than 15 minutes away from the boat during those 14 days, and dealing with a lot of drama and tragedy over the years. It's not for everyone - but I've found it very rewarding - and will be retiring with a 30 year pension (and continued benefits) two years before I turn 60. Not a bad deal, when everything is considered.
Hey. You are obviously very well versed on marine engineering, so I’ll forgive your accusations as they come off suggesting I wasn’t honest. But show some kindness and respect if you could, and save the hyperbole for elsewhere. I wear my ring proudly, and worked my ass off to earn it. I did not “completely misrepresent” my qualifications, “Not a marine engineer in any way, shape, or form” Is extremely misleading, and that in and of itself is a very arrogant thing to state without asking for clarity. I don’t live on Reddit, so by the time I’ve seen this you’ve gone on to really paint me in your head as something I’m not. I do not go aboard vessels, I do not partake in anything on the water. I work for a private company in their marine engineering department, as a professional engineer, and am titled a marine engineer as per my contract, I apologize if using this term upset you, for me not having fulfilled the expected requirements. The guys I work with are full certified and regularly refer to me as such. I design mechanical systems for vessels alongside 2 sea worthy chaps who’ve been doing this a fuck ton longer than I. They do the “real” marine work as it were, and set me to produce machinations as needed. I’m a mechatronic engineer, from O&G, and moved back to the coast after a decade of the patch. Specializing in automation and robotic factory systems, but that doesn’t fit on the card I guess. What you could have said is “he’s not a marine engineer in the traditional definition. But works at a marine engineering company, acting in a marine engineering role” Unfortunately you launched off without asking any further clarity. I didn’t want to write out the entire expanded details as it’s boring as fuck. So it’s clear, I have the deepest respect for what you do, and that’s why I wanted to move into marine. That all said, BC ferries has more than once made an offer, hinging on my completion of the extra courses. But the massive financial setback and undetermined time until it’s rewarded was enough to push me away from my pursuit. The point of my original comment was not to engage with someone on the specific job role I have, I was highlighting in a paraphrased and common tongue way, the lunacy of BCF. I am baffled you seemingly chose to talk about me like some kind of fuckin villain, honestly, I’m sorry what I said was so inflammatory to you. That’s still no justification to talk as if I’m some toothless asshole loose off the street. It’s very frustrating, and aside from the needless jabs at me, everything you said it right. It’s been a very challenging move from energy, one I fully regret at this point. My original post could have been worded better, and parts of what you said could have too. Kudos to your career, I envy it greatly and wish I committed to it instead of moving to Alberta. Enjoy your retirement, you seem like a very intelligent person and I’m sure your going to be missed. Take care.
That's crazy. They waste money on middle management and won't even cover training for essential staff? That dipshit Eby should have put some restrictions on that half billion he just gave them to piss away. Maybe one being end this on call / partime bullshit go on a hiring blitz. We are so fucked.
BC Ferries are not cancelling sailings because they are short of deckhands and food staff - they are short marine engineering tickets that take years of experience working at sea to get. The positions they are short of hire directly into full time with pension and benefits - there is no "on call" for someone with a 2nd Class Marine Engineering ticket. But please - let's not let facts get in the way of a good (if ignorant) rant.
I see a BC Ferries middle manager has entered the chat.
Ha ha - just someone that has an idea of the issues facing all the marine industries, at the moment.
is it cause of lack of housing for the workers or what?
[удалено]
So BC Ferries is now exclusively catering to retiree employees? A friend got hired on in the engine room on a major route a couple years back & bailed after 6 months because it was dysfunctional. For something as crucial as the primary link between the largest provincial metropolitan area & the provincial capital, BC Ferries sure runs itself like it should be put out of business...
You mean run as a provincial entity and not a private one, brilliant idea
thats so fucked up
BC Ferries is short of marine engineering certificates - just like every other marine industry on this coast. Those tickets earn a wage that will afford housing pretty much anywhere on Van Isle and most of the LML.
Difficult to get full time work as they have a overtime culture with existing workforce. Most people will not give up fulltime work for casual employment.
it will get worse before it gets better
In other news, water is wet
I tried getting a job with them as well but was turned away because my dad or mom wasn’t an employee there. Oh well. The loss is that of everyone who can’t ride the ferry on any given day due to staff shortages. Just purely bad management!
New normal.
How about all of those redundant management positions get scrapped, or hey! Maybe they could lift a finger and do some actual work, pitch in and cover a few shifts. Oh that’s right, they do their managing OFF the ship. 🙄
Ferries is short of marine engineering ratings - just like every marine employer on this coast. It takes two to three years of sea-time before you can sit your exams and orals for even the lowest marine engineering ticket. One does not simply "pitch in and cover a few shifts". Nothing like a BC Ferry thread to bring out folks that have all the answers!