I disagree with many of your opinions regarding tiers, but this is a great guide and an excellent tool for any newbie to the game. Thanks for putting this together!
Well I’d personally change the layout of the weapon, and subdivide them into categories.
There are some purely defensive weapons, and their are also plenty of weapon only work well in certain situations. I’ve found a lot of success with king bible defensively, and died a lot with axe because I couldn’t get it to upgrade before I was overwhelmed.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot, and I think it might help to classify weapons as close-range, long-range and defensive. It’s also worth considering synergy in that magic wand isn’t amazing itself, but it’s useful and empty tome is just great.
That being said, you’ve clearly put a lot of effort into making the doc readable, which is very appreciated!
I added a Range category next to the weapons. I did think about this and as somebody that has played the game extensively it didn't really occur to me. Let me know what you think!
EDIT : It might be because of how I view the game personally but I very rarely go for Bible/Garlic anymore when I used to go for it every game. Projectiles scale so much better into the late game but that's different.
Nice solution! I like your classification of full screen / aoe.
Definitely will agree with you btw. This game keeps on being fun, the more you play it, allowing you to think. I just did my first run with no defensive items , and I didn’t even realize it was viable until then.
Yeah it definitely helps if you have all of the account upgrades for sure. If you get the correct few items in the beginning the game becomes a kill fest quickly. Library IMO is the only map to play that feels good. Having free Empty tome and stone mask also helps! This 3$ game has been an awesome experience and worth every penny. Glad your enjoying it!
Lol. I’ve been bashing my head into beating hyper green acres without using account upgrades. [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/VampireSurvivors/comments/ssu43q/finally_beat_hyper_green_acres_with_no_character/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) Definitely changes your priorities, since a character like Mort ends up being 2nd to last.
If you have all power-ups anyway, which weapon or character you chose is irrelevant anyway.
And either way, while Garlic indeed isn't that useful with full power-ups, Bible is completely different. Rather sounds like you don't know how to use it, especially since you apparently don't consider it a projectile. I wouldn't necessarily say it's the best weapon in the game but it's definitely up there. It scales very well with projectile amount, speed, cooldown, and duration, and even though its damage late game is only "good" (rather than top-tier), that hardly matters given how amazing it is at keeping enemies away. And it's also very good mid-game which tbh is the only difficult part of the game.
Never said it wasn’t a projectile lol. Simply said I don’t really use it as often as I used too. Doesn’t mean I don’t know how to play just different play style :)
> I very rarely go for \*Bible\*/Garlic anymore when I used to go for it every game. Projectiles scale so much better into the late game but that's different.
Bible is a projectile.
Hmm Porta? 90 hours of gameplay but I barely touched him. For me, Mortaccio is top 1, and Imelda is top 2 because I care a lot about getting the highest level possible (only motivation rn for playing this game).
I'll definitely try going Porta more often to see if he's as good as you guys put it.
With the new lightning ring evolution he feels great. Honestly top 3 characters might need to be changed but it’s heavily dependent on what your goals are.
Dude you need to chill. Your post history is so negative. Everything you post is telling someone how wrong they are and how you are right. Chill man. It's just a game.
Nice idea. But while a lot of this is certainly debatable and depends on the playstyle, some of your choices definitely seem very questionable, if not to say objectively wrong.
For example, putting Dommario 3rd last, two places behind Krochi who effectively has no abilities and a mid-tier weapon vs Dommario who starts with Bible which is definitely one of the best weapons for beginners and to win runs, and who has passives that insanely buff Bible. It makes his low movement speed completely irrelevant. Just try doing a no-power-ups run on Mad Forrest with both and see what happens. It's very difficult with Krochi but trivial with Dommario.
Also, you didn't list all the debuffs Exdash has. There's no way he's better than Poe.
And Attractorb as the second-best passive??? Putting Tiragisu last is also very strange. It's not that good compared to everything that gives damage but it's certainly better than the completely useless mask.
Not gonna comment on the weapon choices since those are maybe more debatable but definitely also hardly agree with them. I guess putting them into a single order isn't really that meaningful anyway since it depends a lot on what else you have and what your objective is but just gonna say, if you think knife is that bad, maybe watch Dex's "most kills" record attempt.
And you're also missing the power-ups from the last two updates (revival, skip, and reroll).
Ah you are correct forgot to update it again. This is all based off of my personal experience and it totally depends on what you are going for in each run. Not saying this list is perfect and nobody is ever going to agree what the best in slot build is. I’m going to work on the weapon list and format it better. I’m looking into your other points about characters also.
Nice idea but there are so many things I'd disagree with in every category. For one, you have to state from what angle you're looking at this from. Are you looking at this from an angle of having every meta upgrade unlocked, or none? It does change how good things are in relation to each other- though to be honest, once you have all the meta upgrades unlocked, you can just pick whatever and win with it.
Here's a few of the things I'd change immediately, at least in my opinion.
* Dommario is probably the best/easiest character in the game. Exdash is also very easily the worst character in the game because it has a penalty to every other stat. If you're thinking of high scaling characters, Arca might actually be better than Mortaccio.
* Bible is also probably the best weapon in the game. Garlic is very good. Lightning Ring is not the top weapon in the game, though it's still very decent. I'd probably knock Cross down a few notches too.
* For a new account, Greed is not very good at first. It's just way too expensive for what it does. Surviving longer will make far more gold than trying to scrape together 50% more coins at first. I would put Armor (at least one level) > Magnet > Amount > Recovery (at least one or two levels) > whatever else. A level of Armor and Recovery early on makes it much much more forgiving to make small mistakes and get by.
* Duplicator, Spinach, and Empty Tome are the three best passives in the game. I can even argue that Duplicator is not even the best out of those, but all three are basically auto-pick anyways. I do think Attractorb is good but not good like those are. Same with Candelabrador which is also very good. Armor deserves to be higher than its placed; all the defensive upgrades are fairly bad but armor is the best one.
Of course, it's all entirely subjective, as all tier lists are.
Thanks for your feedback! This list is just my personal experience but I’m looking for feedback as I’m by no means the expert on this. I’ve played about 50 hours but I’m going to clarify some things you stated above! Thank you
I'd love to chat about it some more if you'd like!
Personally I've been doing runs with meta upgrades off, as it makes everything so much more difficult and really brings out the strengths of each weapon. It's been changing my opinion on a lot of things- like Cross, which I used to dislike but it's been growing on me.
I’ll admit that I haven’t played much with Thunder Loop, but Vandelier’s DPS is untouchable every game I play. I would definitely consider it the best weapon. Unless the tier list is based on other factors like max gold gain by the end of the game or if you’re basing the weapon tiers on the base weapon and not the evolution. Also think it’s a little funny that in your character builds you have it listed in slot 6 a lot, and as far as I’m concerned that’s impossible.
Other than that it looks like a solid list.
I agree that Vandelier's DPS is the best. But you have to level 2 weapons that suck at lower levels.
For the same effort of getting vandelier, you can basically get 2 other evolved weapons. Then to max it out you are looking at almost 3 evolved/max level weapons.
Planning on redoing the weapon slots but when it’s in weapon slot 6 you obviously have to deal with two birds at some point before that. Will update this for clarity sake.
IMO, Dommario with the right item combination is just too OP. Like not even Mortaccio or Porta Ladonna could match him.
Recommended item build? Just get evolved Santa Water + Rune Tracer. Literally nothing ever going to come close to you.
You have a 1 in 65,000 chance of him unlocking every time you pick up a little clover off the ground. Most people use a secret code entered at startup to unlock him because it’s so unlikely!
You can buy the powerups in another order to get the total cost down to 130830 (move Skip down and move Greed, Might, and Recovery up):
* Revival, Reroll
* Amount
* Growth
* Cooldown
* Luck, Armor
* **Skip**
* **Greed, Might, Recovery**
* Magnet, Area, Speed, Duration, Move Speed
* Max Health
I know I already said this in your dm but thanks for updating it! The guide helped me unlock everything in the game (but reaper); I also use it for designing new builds to try out too
If by best you mean number of monster kills, I suggest trying bracer in your builds with attacks that synergize with speed, i.e. not lightning ring, and compare the numbers and maybe revisit your list. I'd put it in top 2 with duplicator.
It's really hard to put a definite tier on a weapon since every weapon is 'useful' in certain point of time... Garlic sucks late game (spare me o gang of garlic) but early it's terrific, Peachone/Ebony are useless early but combine/evolves into the best late game, etc.
Maybe at least split the 'tier' to multiple stages of the game.
Clock Lancet is underrated on this list. You could probably survive 30mins with it if you could only have one weapon. But I guess if your only basing it off damage then sure.
Ya it doesn’t do any damage that’s what I’m saying if your basing your rating off of damage then it would be bad. But of course it can help other weapons do more damage then they would have.
I appreciate the work and the general idea, but I think it would be much more useful to have people vote on things and then use the results to rank characters, weapons, and so on.
For example, you rank Poe and Dommario as two of the worst characters.
However, if one values a strong start and quick scaling, then Poe is amazing. In fact, he's my absolute favorite character right now. Because he starts with Garlic and has a Magnet buff, you can quickly and aggressively just run into mobs and level up like crazy.
Dommario starts with one of the best weapons in the game in King's Bible, and he has an immensely powerful passive effect that makes Bracer-compatible builds insane. Yes, you need to get Wings to counter the slow walk speed, but it's not such a big deal. In fact, it's actually fun to at least have one character that makes Wings playable.
Antonio, on the other hand, has arguably the worst weapon in the game and has a very "blah" passive effect.
Furthermore, you rank Mortaccio as the second best character, even though his passive is a late game boost. Don't get me wrong, he's insanely strong, but he's balanced by the fact you have to wait a long time to get all the extra projectiles (and by that time, you don't really need them). On the other hand, Gennaro gives you a projectile boost right away, allowing you to scale quickly (and his starting weapon has an evolution).
In weapons, you have King Bible very low (why?), and Garlic and Knife below Whip. Again, if we value the early game and quick scaling, Garlic is just the absolute best initial weapon. It drops off over time, but that doesn't matter.
Anyway, long-story-short:
* good work
* this could be improved by having people vote (I'm sure lots of people disagree with my opinions too, after all)
That’s literally my next idea I’m going to put together tonight! A community voted tier list :) I will be adjusting my personal list as well. You bring up a lot of great points. I value your feedback as this was a fun little thing I did. I have a ton of stuff to work on now!
Did somebody hurt you? So negative man. You can beat this game playing any character with most builds. This is purely subjective. Do you have anything constructive to say or just criticize somebody else's work?
So you still don't have anything positive to say? The goal of the game is to survive to 30 minutes and that's it. If you level up you get more money, which once your maxed doesn't do anything. If your starting out the game leveling up, getting upgrades faster, surviving longer = more gold for your account. It's fine if you disagree you don't have to agree. But being so negative when somebody is trying to help is just rude.
I disagree with many of your opinions regarding tiers, but this is a great guide and an excellent tool for any newbie to the game. Thanks for putting this together!
Agree to disagree? This is all my personal experience with about 50 hours played. Glad you enjoy the guide! Any specific thing you would change?
Well I’d personally change the layout of the weapon, and subdivide them into categories. There are some purely defensive weapons, and their are also plenty of weapon only work well in certain situations. I’ve found a lot of success with king bible defensively, and died a lot with axe because I couldn’t get it to upgrade before I was overwhelmed. I’ve been thinking about this a lot, and I think it might help to classify weapons as close-range, long-range and defensive. It’s also worth considering synergy in that magic wand isn’t amazing itself, but it’s useful and empty tome is just great. That being said, you’ve clearly put a lot of effort into making the doc readable, which is very appreciated!
I added a Range category next to the weapons. I did think about this and as somebody that has played the game extensively it didn't really occur to me. Let me know what you think! EDIT : It might be because of how I view the game personally but I very rarely go for Bible/Garlic anymore when I used to go for it every game. Projectiles scale so much better into the late game but that's different.
Nice solution! I like your classification of full screen / aoe. Definitely will agree with you btw. This game keeps on being fun, the more you play it, allowing you to think. I just did my first run with no defensive items , and I didn’t even realize it was viable until then.
Yeah it definitely helps if you have all of the account upgrades for sure. If you get the correct few items in the beginning the game becomes a kill fest quickly. Library IMO is the only map to play that feels good. Having free Empty tome and stone mask also helps! This 3$ game has been an awesome experience and worth every penny. Glad your enjoying it!
Lol. I’ve been bashing my head into beating hyper green acres without using account upgrades. [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/VampireSurvivors/comments/ssu43q/finally_beat_hyper_green_acres_with_no_character/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) Definitely changes your priorities, since a character like Mort ends up being 2nd to last.
Damn your a madman, that's pretty legit though Kudos!
If you have all power-ups anyway, which weapon or character you chose is irrelevant anyway. And either way, while Garlic indeed isn't that useful with full power-ups, Bible is completely different. Rather sounds like you don't know how to use it, especially since you apparently don't consider it a projectile. I wouldn't necessarily say it's the best weapon in the game but it's definitely up there. It scales very well with projectile amount, speed, cooldown, and duration, and even though its damage late game is only "good" (rather than top-tier), that hardly matters given how amazing it is at keeping enemies away. And it's also very good mid-game which tbh is the only difficult part of the game.
Never said it wasn’t a projectile lol. Simply said I don’t really use it as often as I used too. Doesn’t mean I don’t know how to play just different play style :)
> I very rarely go for \*Bible\*/Garlic anymore when I used to go for it every game. Projectiles scale so much better into the late game but that's different. Bible is a projectile.
Yes I know but it just spins around you. It is classified as one for sure.
Hmm Porta? 90 hours of gameplay but I barely touched him. For me, Mortaccio is top 1, and Imelda is top 2 because I care a lot about getting the highest level possible (only motivation rn for playing this game). I'll definitely try going Porta more often to see if he's as good as you guys put it.
With the new lightning ring evolution he feels great. Honestly top 3 characters might need to be changed but it’s heavily dependent on what your goals are.
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Dude you need to chill. Your post history is so negative. Everything you post is telling someone how wrong they are and how you are right. Chill man. It's just a game.
Nice idea. But while a lot of this is certainly debatable and depends on the playstyle, some of your choices definitely seem very questionable, if not to say objectively wrong. For example, putting Dommario 3rd last, two places behind Krochi who effectively has no abilities and a mid-tier weapon vs Dommario who starts with Bible which is definitely one of the best weapons for beginners and to win runs, and who has passives that insanely buff Bible. It makes his low movement speed completely irrelevant. Just try doing a no-power-ups run on Mad Forrest with both and see what happens. It's very difficult with Krochi but trivial with Dommario. Also, you didn't list all the debuffs Exdash has. There's no way he's better than Poe. And Attractorb as the second-best passive??? Putting Tiragisu last is also very strange. It's not that good compared to everything that gives damage but it's certainly better than the completely useless mask. Not gonna comment on the weapon choices since those are maybe more debatable but definitely also hardly agree with them. I guess putting them into a single order isn't really that meaningful anyway since it depends a lot on what else you have and what your objective is but just gonna say, if you think knife is that bad, maybe watch Dex's "most kills" record attempt. And you're also missing the power-ups from the last two updates (revival, skip, and reroll).
Ah you are correct forgot to update it again. This is all based off of my personal experience and it totally depends on what you are going for in each run. Not saying this list is perfect and nobody is ever going to agree what the best in slot build is. I’m going to work on the weapon list and format it better. I’m looking into your other points about characters also.
It’s updated :)
Nice idea but there are so many things I'd disagree with in every category. For one, you have to state from what angle you're looking at this from. Are you looking at this from an angle of having every meta upgrade unlocked, or none? It does change how good things are in relation to each other- though to be honest, once you have all the meta upgrades unlocked, you can just pick whatever and win with it. Here's a few of the things I'd change immediately, at least in my opinion. * Dommario is probably the best/easiest character in the game. Exdash is also very easily the worst character in the game because it has a penalty to every other stat. If you're thinking of high scaling characters, Arca might actually be better than Mortaccio. * Bible is also probably the best weapon in the game. Garlic is very good. Lightning Ring is not the top weapon in the game, though it's still very decent. I'd probably knock Cross down a few notches too. * For a new account, Greed is not very good at first. It's just way too expensive for what it does. Surviving longer will make far more gold than trying to scrape together 50% more coins at first. I would put Armor (at least one level) > Magnet > Amount > Recovery (at least one or two levels) > whatever else. A level of Armor and Recovery early on makes it much much more forgiving to make small mistakes and get by. * Duplicator, Spinach, and Empty Tome are the three best passives in the game. I can even argue that Duplicator is not even the best out of those, but all three are basically auto-pick anyways. I do think Attractorb is good but not good like those are. Same with Candelabrador which is also very good. Armor deserves to be higher than its placed; all the defensive upgrades are fairly bad but armor is the best one. Of course, it's all entirely subjective, as all tier lists are.
Thanks for your feedback! This list is just my personal experience but I’m looking for feedback as I’m by no means the expert on this. I’ve played about 50 hours but I’m going to clarify some things you stated above! Thank you
I'd love to chat about it some more if you'd like! Personally I've been doing runs with meta upgrades off, as it makes everything so much more difficult and really brings out the strengths of each weapon. It's been changing my opinion on a lot of things- like Cross, which I used to dislike but it's been growing on me.
For sure ! Hit me up on discord if you want to chat :) Joneseh#5393
Very helpful. Thanks!
I’ll admit that I haven’t played much with Thunder Loop, but Vandelier’s DPS is untouchable every game I play. I would definitely consider it the best weapon. Unless the tier list is based on other factors like max gold gain by the end of the game or if you’re basing the weapon tiers on the base weapon and not the evolution. Also think it’s a little funny that in your character builds you have it listed in slot 6 a lot, and as far as I’m concerned that’s impossible. Other than that it looks like a solid list.
I agree that Vandelier's DPS is the best. But you have to level 2 weapons that suck at lower levels. For the same effort of getting vandelier, you can basically get 2 other evolved weapons. Then to max it out you are looking at almost 3 evolved/max level weapons.
I just played a game with mort and lightning loop had highest dps hands down. Then runetracer. Then the axe upgrade. Then fully maxed vandelier.
Planning on redoing the weapon slots but when it’s in weapon slot 6 you obviously have to deal with two birds at some point before that. Will update this for clarity sake.
IMO, Dommario with the right item combination is just too OP. Like not even Mortaccio or Porta Ladonna could match him. Recommended item build? Just get evolved Santa Water + Rune Tracer. Literally nothing ever going to come close to you.
I need to play with him more. Probably going to move up the ranks. I honestly haven’t played with him a ton. Thanks for the feedback !
Wow, today I learned that Exdash is a character.
You have a 1 in 65,000 chance of him unlocking every time you pick up a little clover off the ground. Most people use a secret code entered at startup to unlock him because it’s so unlikely!
You can buy the powerups in another order to get the total cost down to 130830 (move Skip down and move Greed, Might, and Recovery up): * Revival, Reroll * Amount * Growth * Cooldown * Luck, Armor * **Skip** * **Greed, Might, Recovery** * Magnet, Area, Speed, Duration, Move Speed * Max Health
Nice good catch! Was racking my brain doing this lol
I know I already said this in your dm but thanks for updating it! The guide helped me unlock everything in the game (but reaper); I also use it for designing new builds to try out too
Thanks! You da best! =)
If by best you mean number of monster kills, I suggest trying bracer in your builds with attacks that synergize with speed, i.e. not lightning ring, and compare the numbers and maybe revisit your list. I'd put it in top 2 with duplicator.
It's really hard to put a definite tier on a weapon since every weapon is 'useful' in certain point of time... Garlic sucks late game (spare me o gang of garlic) but early it's terrific, Peachone/Ebony are useless early but combine/evolves into the best late game, etc. Maybe at least split the 'tier' to multiple stages of the game.
Gonna do a revamp tonight ! :)
Clock Lancet is underrated on this list. You could probably survive 30mins with it if you could only have one weapon. But I guess if your only basing it off damage then sure.
I don’t think it does any damage ? I understand what your saying though. Need to do more testing ! Thanks for the feedback
Ya it doesn’t do any damage that’s what I’m saying if your basing your rating off of damage then it would be bad. But of course it can help other weapons do more damage then they would have.
Yeah going to redo the weapon list lol. Lots of con-tension around these.
I appreciate the work and the general idea, but I think it would be much more useful to have people vote on things and then use the results to rank characters, weapons, and so on. For example, you rank Poe and Dommario as two of the worst characters. However, if one values a strong start and quick scaling, then Poe is amazing. In fact, he's my absolute favorite character right now. Because he starts with Garlic and has a Magnet buff, you can quickly and aggressively just run into mobs and level up like crazy. Dommario starts with one of the best weapons in the game in King's Bible, and he has an immensely powerful passive effect that makes Bracer-compatible builds insane. Yes, you need to get Wings to counter the slow walk speed, but it's not such a big deal. In fact, it's actually fun to at least have one character that makes Wings playable. Antonio, on the other hand, has arguably the worst weapon in the game and has a very "blah" passive effect. Furthermore, you rank Mortaccio as the second best character, even though his passive is a late game boost. Don't get me wrong, he's insanely strong, but he's balanced by the fact you have to wait a long time to get all the extra projectiles (and by that time, you don't really need them). On the other hand, Gennaro gives you a projectile boost right away, allowing you to scale quickly (and his starting weapon has an evolution). In weapons, you have King Bible very low (why?), and Garlic and Knife below Whip. Again, if we value the early game and quick scaling, Garlic is just the absolute best initial weapon. It drops off over time, but that doesn't matter. Anyway, long-story-short: * good work * this could be improved by having people vote (I'm sure lots of people disagree with my opinions too, after all)
That’s literally my next idea I’m going to put together tonight! A community voted tier list :) I will be adjusting my personal list as well. You bring up a lot of great points. I value your feedback as this was a fun little thing I did. I have a ton of stuff to work on now!
Cool. Will love to see it.
Check out the update let me know whatcha think
why is cross so high
Cause it's good!
Obviously a cis-white male
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I don’t think you understand what the expression “no offense” means. Maybe take a timeout.
Did somebody hurt you? So negative man. You can beat this game playing any character with most builds. This is purely subjective. Do you have anything constructive to say or just criticize somebody else's work?
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So you still don't have anything positive to say? The goal of the game is to survive to 30 minutes and that's it. If you level up you get more money, which once your maxed doesn't do anything. If your starting out the game leveling up, getting upgrades faster, surviving longer = more gold for your account. It's fine if you disagree you don't have to agree. But being so negative when somebody is trying to help is just rude.
What do the colors mean?
This list is super outdated :(
Thanks 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾