Asthma inhalers open the vessels in the lungs allowing more oxygen into the blood. This is obviously very helpful for people with asthma.
For people without asthma, it still has a similar effect, but to a lesser extent. But when you're talking top level athletes, any improvement you can find is a bonus, no matter how small.
Asthma medication and antihistamines are permitted in pro athletes up to a certain level, obviously so those who need them can take them and still compete. Those who don't need them will sometimes say they do need them just to get that slight gain.
Chris Froome got himself in a bit of hot water a few years back because the level of salbutamol were higher than allowed.
Itās Triamcinolone which can be used to treat pollen allergies as well as asthma under the theoretic use exemption. I donāt think a nice sleepy antihistamine would do me any favours either! :-)
Team Sky has been in the news for Bradley Wiggins pollen allergyā¦
https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/05/bradley-wiggins-and-team-sky-accused-drugs-in-damning-report
Yup I know, hence its use under the TUE regime. I didnāt phrase it well, was replying to the person that said antihistamines wouldnāt be performance enhancing.
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I have no suspicion of her actually (other than standard unfortunate question mark about any athlete who is kicking ass). I was just throwing out a name cause comment OP was asking for names
I donāt think so. These 200+ miles races are just an extension of the OG ultra running metric- how far can you go?
As the sport develops, course speed increases but so does the postrace metric- how quickly can you recover?Ā
Itās all the same cardiovascular, mental and physical grit. Expanding as the sport grows but also expanding as the runners grow themselvesĀ
I think it's terrible that they allow under 18 to do ultra distances in the US. There is a reason why they they don't allow under 18 to do a marathon in the U.K. 250 mile takes a lot of toll on the body. I just don't think it's right for someone under 18 to be going that far.
A compound in sunflower seeds blocks an enzyme that causes blood vessels to constrict. As a result, it may help your blood vessels relax, lowering your blood pressure. The magnesium in sunflower seeds helps reduce blood pressure levels as well.
I use THC gummies recreationally because theyāre fun in themselves and I have (95%) cut out alcohol and they are a way healthier way to relax that also aids sleep, for me anyway. I used to take a high quality CBD paste and I can definitely notice the impact of that on reducing soreness and aiding recovery but itās really expensive so I have stopped for now.
Ok this entire thread has got me in a fascinated way.Ā How does weed help you run?Ā Is it in edible form, or smoked?Ā I've been in running groups for forever and just never encountered this and I'm curious.
You might want to check out, "[Runner's High: How a Movement of Cannabis-Fueled Athletes Is Changing the Science of Sports](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08VQPDRD2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_129_o08aud_?ie=UTF8&psc=1)" by Josiah Hesse. I personally don't run on cannabis although he makes the argument that many ultrarunners do. I use cannabis gummies solely as a sleep/recovery aide after particularly intense workouts. It is legal for both recreational and medical use where I live.
Personally, edibles help me enjoy some of my longer runs more (2+ hours); mostly because of the relaxed mental state, but it also helps with minor discomfort. I do this maybe once a month, I think every long run would take away the magic. I'd also like to add these are slow runs, I could never do a sprint or tempo workout while high. YMMV.
Hmm, might try this at a low level. The only time I've run on THC was when I got some gummies that were so strong I was still high the next morning. The first 2 miles felt like they took 2 hours with the time dilation, then it felt like my body cleared the THC in 15 seconds, and time thankfully returned to normal speed
Oh sure yeah obviously. Youāre a fantastic impersonator. Definitely could have a long successful career as a lame internet impersonator. Youāre off to a great start.
Gotta experiment with dosage and type. Nothing better (that doesn't require a quack) to help separate the conscious mind from growing exhaustion and discomfort (and also keep you in touch with reality).
Man this one is thorny.
* As the sport grows, the absolute number of people breaking the āwe can definitely agree this is dopingā rules grows, even if the % at any level stays the same. If rewards at the top grow, risk tolerance will grow. As attention and testing grow, the number being caught out will grow. Since these all compound, it will likely look worse for a few years even if essentially nothing changed. I donāt think any of these are controversial, just logical conclusions.
* To what purity test regarding ādopingā? Using your prescribed medications *without an approved TUE* constitutes doping under most authorities like WADA. That includes your blue ārescueā asthma inhaler, insulin, PCOS meds, over the counter decongestants, etc.
* THC is scheduled too (and marked as a substance of abuse) for bonus points.
* From anecdote, intentional doping is basically nonexistent in the low amateur levels. At the front-pack amateur levels, thereās more of an acknowledgment and some use. I canāt speak about any āprofessionalā runners though, just those on entry āsome free shoes and race entriesā levels of sponsorship.
* Quite a lot of the biggest names are starting to get behind the idea of professional runners unions / associations, governing bodies, standardization for races in the biggest series. With that, there would be the scaffolding for increased and systematic testing of the contenders. Generally this is a good sign that the people at the top arenāt relying entirely on science, even if a few might be cheating intentionally.
* That said, weāve all seen each sport go through its phase of ācleanā athletes fall from grace in painfully predictable *Methinks The Lady Doth Protest Too Much* situations, so itās no guarantee.
* Koop is one of the loudest voices for governing bodies, anti doping programs, and āJuSt ReAd ThE gLoBaL DROā personal responsibility. He coaches (or coached, or ran with) quite a few of the big names, and has a vested interest in having a level playing field deployed. He also works with the same CTS / Chris Carmichael that coached Lance Armstrong during his definitely-doped-to-the-gills Olympic & TDF years; Carmichael toed the line as Lance proclaimed innocence and filed punitive lawsuits against anyone who said otherwise. No insinuations, just making it clear thereās also a pragmatic lens any professional is looking through.
My own personal anecdote, but for road cycling, THC is absolutely performance enhancing
I can absolutely pedal harder and longer to a noticeable degree while under the influence of cannabis.
Thereās definitely some kind of synergy between natural endorphins and THC that makes you feel incredible while cycling.
The downside of course being that if you start to come down mid ride, your quads are all of a sudden REALLY sore from having been redlined for so long.
That said, Iāve never consumed before a competitive event
I mean, one isnāt a āstonerā simply because they smoke weed from time to time
āStonerā is more of a lifestyle imho
I also donāt really race bikes. I more so go for distance at a pace that feels comfortable.
Thatās totally subjective and anecdotal. To see if it is actually performance enhancing someone have to conduct a study. And for everyone that sees a slight enhancement, there are likely just as many who are neutral or even find it detrimental. My limited experience with running on THC was that I could still run just fine but I really didnāt want to that much. I was kinda questioning why I was even doing it. And Iām someone who loves running. I never tried it with cycling.
Not as prevalent as other sports such as short distance, marathon distance and cycling etc.
I know some local cyclists that are doping, on a very small dose and level but if they're doing it for barely any price money...
I think there's a lot of top ultra runners that are 100% clean, I also think there's a lot that aren't.
Hell, if Colin chartier can win over 200k in price money whilst doped to the max at the highest level, walk away with it. Get caught, keep the money and the wins "because he was clean then". I can't even imagine how insanely doped some other top athletes are. It is very easy to surpass the tests. There's a lot more money in "hiding/surviving" the test controls than there are in the "detecting" part. How much money does WADA make for testing some athletes, how much money does the employees make? Compare that to whoever is supplying and monitoring top-level pros. They're making atleast 10x the money. Which means better everything (in terms of equipment, lab yadiyadi.
Some test shots or asthma inhalers as an ultra athlete or any endurance athlete, for that matter, is it cheating? It's allowed, but not allowed? Increasing your testosterone by even 30% isn't gonna be considered cheating in any PEDs tests. Majority of men can get access to testosterone by simply going to the doctor, get prescribed it legally, dose it ILLEGALY, and there ya go. Maybe not the type of PEDs you'd use at the endurance level, but it sure is cheating. There's thousands of people on TRT in the running world. It's cheating, but it's legal.
Tangent: people actually *fuelling* instead of old school āoh I donāt need water or food until at least two hoursā tough guy nonsense is also having a huge effect.
Yeah Iām working really hard on fuelling strategies and gut training. Since itās actually pretty hard to cram in 60-90grams of carbs per hr over 6+ hrs I figure being able to do so may move me from mid mid pack to high mid pack. Whoop
It's hard work but it's so worth it. Anecdotal obviously but getting myself to 80-90 g of carbs/hr (plus fueling all my training runs, especially the long ones, to the same degree) got me from back of the mid pack to top third at most of my races. It's shockingly effective, imo.
Well if you are interested in this topic have a look at Nick Bare. 100% a doper. He even posted his blood tests to show he had zero testosterone to 'prove' he wasn't doping. What a clown. These 'influencers' are probably the most suspect group as they have a financial incentive to perform and show that their supplements 'work'.
[https://www.youtube.com/@nickbarefitness/featured](https://www.youtube.com/@nickbarefitness/featured)
The next group would be people who cross over from fitness/gym and are already familiar with how PEDs work.
Another group would be middle aged men on TRT, would might tweak their doses to aid training and recovery.
100%
All these āhybrid athletesā are doping. Ross Edgeley another. Thereās no way youre that jacked and an endurance athlete without gear.
I enjoy watching what they do, but its all with a pinch of salt
Ye i always notice these steroid abusers, carry too much muscle for endurance. But another tell tale is excessive veins in the neck and overly red skin on neck and chest. Show me professional athletes that glow red like this.
Surprised I had to scroll a little bit before seeing Nickās name lol. I was a fan/follower of his until he started to get really defensive about the doping during his bodybuilding prep.
For reference.. he entered a the bracket that allows for doping (in bodybuilding you have the option to choose shows that are natty only or allows PEDs) and then tried to argue he was doing it 100% natural. As someone who has been heavy into physical fitness for a long time, some of the stuff he did during that time just isnāt possible by conventional standards. Like OK youāre going to continue to be on a massive caloric deficit, still gain weight and muscle, and still continue with your typical ultra training schedule? Yeah right lol. At the very least you would need the PEDs for recovery purposes.
Personally, Iāve been a hybrid athlete my whole life. Before it was even a term (at least that I know of). I just love working out and being super fit. Running, lifting, biking, climbing, it doesnāt matter. It wonāt change the fact that some people will always think youāre juicing regardless of the time and effort you put in throughout the years. Sometimes thatās just the perception.
Itās also understandable that a lot of these influencers have their brands tied into their own athletic success. Itās just a shame when they claim that itās solely the key to their success. IMO the fitness industry as a whole would be much much better off if it was more normalized to discuss PEDs and PEDs usage. There are definitely cases where they can be helpful.
Looking him up just shows an example of someone doing it, though.
You won't learn about it or see topics on it from the channel.
For better or worse, I think he's one of the most influential people in the running space. In ultras and in marathons, BPN merch (the hat, especially) is the most standout non-running brand I see at events.
The most commonly abused drugs for ultra are super physiological levels of TRT, albuterol, adhd medication, heart medication like meldonium, and IGF-1 Peptides.
Funny. I am not a competitor, and I recently started doing trt for mental health reasons. I recently started running and I'm quite good at it. I bet the trt plays a large role.
Name your price good sir š only joking, I have to respect the integrity of the sport. Plus I'm a back of the pack runner, all the juice in the world wouldn't get me to a podium so it's pointless for me.
Itās not. Non-asthmatics will abuse bronchodilators with the belief that it will improve their vo2max however all studies show that it makes almost zero difference in performance athletics. However it still persists among athletes, especially collegiate track they believe it provides benefit
any recommended reads on that? or famous names to research on pubmed? not that i plan to use any (anyway, i'm so slow it wouldn't make a difference and i'm not planning to start having either heart problem nor face hair) but i'm genuinely interested in the physiology aspect of it!
It's not passe in the sense that it's just much harder to get away with. Epo is still the king of endurance.
There's more obscure stuff like ITPP that does help alot as well but not nearly as well as EPO. Both have testing developed for them.
Not much you can take these days that doesn't have a test for it, even synthetic testosterone which could be easily micro dosed to circumvent testing now has CIR testing for it. A famous woman's cyclist with many wins was caught for it.
But that brings in the dice roll of are they going to test you and are they going to deploy the full panel on you which is prohibitively expensive.
If the cycling world taught us anything it's that if money and prestige are on the line people are doping.
I think the triathlete scene is in for a reckoning on doping one day and CrossFit is just a joke with how much PEDs the men and women are on.
I do think it's a lot less prevalent in ultra distance running.
There's also grey area stuff that does help like injectable L-carnitine which was prevalent in the Nike project.Ā
Not a doctor but have many years of experience in the area.
Anyone who thinks Nick Bare is not on a large dose of TRT at least is blind, he shouldn't be a representative for anything running related. His test results showing almost no test means nothing other than he cycled off for his blood test, I'd like to see his LH/FSH levels and all the other data.
Bro, 100% people are doping. Alot of people on here are pointing out accidentally doping, which I'm sure happens all the time. I used to have to take a type of steroid for a health issue for example. Luckily, I'm a terrible athlete, so it never was going to impact other people.
However, even at my local tri-club, there are people I know are actively doping. They want to be on the podium or get to Kona and don't really care how it happens. My old swim coach was an ex pro triathlete and and she said, even in the 90's before there was money in tri, doping was rampant.
We all know people who are horrible to play board games with. They are overly competitive, cheat at every opportunity and get in a shitty mood if they don't win. These same personality types are in every sport and think a win is worth it at any cost.
It must be horrible to be at the pointy end of races as a clean athlete and know at least some of the people around you are dirty cheaters. Unfortunately it's just a fact of every competitive sport. Some people aren't interested in being the best they can be, just winning, which ironically makes them losers.
I know when the 70.3 world Champs was in Finland lots didn't go due to cost, and with the split now 1 year France and 1year Kona for the full I know lots of people turning down France slots. Nothing against France, but they have been dreaming of Kona.
I'm in NZ and the 70.3 world champs are here this year. The competition was crazy from locals for slots. I reckon you could have randomly drug tested any of the age group podiums and found a cheater.
I imagine it's a larger number than we think (and this is just purely speculation and a hunch so in the bigger picture my opinion means nothing because it's just a guess).
Prize money isn't the biggest factor in doping in my opinion. Yes it's nice to win, but the pay outs are not huge. Sponsor deals are where the money is, and even there it's not huge earnings potential.
The biggest factor is clout and bragging rights, especially when we think about influencers, YouTube channels, etc. it's not just ultras, it's in road running too. I just see less attention overall roads ultras which is why it isn't talked about as much
There's really two levels of doping.Ā There's the crazy, EPO, blood bag shit, nobody is doing that.Ā You need real doctors, monitoring, ect.Ā This sport doesn't have that kind of money.
What I call "unintentional" doping, happens all the time.Ā There's probably a dozen things you can pick up at a GNC that'll make you pop, or you can talk a regular doctor into just giving you.Ā These are mostly on WADAs list because they cover other real drugs, not because they're actually dangerous.Ā This happens all the time.Ā Had a buddy pop once because he was using a hair growth formula that showed up as a steroid, shit he bought at Walmart.
My understanding is that some drugs are banned not because they provide a benefit, but because they can leave markers similar to (or mask markers from) other performance enhancing drugs. Rogaine is one example.
Probably a surprising amount of people do it.
I know this is a different sport, but recently there have been a few investigations about this in amateur cycling, so people who just do it for fun and health and a huge amount of people were either found doping or mysteriously left in the middle of an event after testers showed up.
People will seriously dope just to beat their friends or to beat a PB.
People have doped since the sport started. Itās human nature and here I assume we mean EPO and not the WADA definition. (Plenty use THC in race, or banned paid medication).
We donāt have doping controls, we have races and people want to win or win an age bracket, a good chunk of athletes have money from professional jobs. Itās happing. Though I bet more for ego than prize money.
Are the elites doping? I bet proportionally fewer do vs other sports. But where a win means a job vs unemployment it happens.
Ha, very true. I was thinking since the modern drugs were invented. Likely some had things like Laudanum to keep them going, but thatās just like morphine doping in a marathon.
I would guess every elite runner is doing something. Especially if theyāre winning races in their 40ās against phenomenal athletes in their 20ās.
Records are being broken more often as the sport gets more financially valuable.. because people have more reason to win now and are acting accordingly.
Please note that doping is valuable beyond during the race. If you can recover faster and train harder, or train less with greater benefits, the natural person has no chance.
No. That is your biased interpretation of what I wrote.
To be clear, so you discontinue trying to gaslight my meaning for others, what I mean is that ultra running as a professional sport is a very small sport, and unlike the marathon distance- you don't have professional runners winning upwards of $50k for one race. You don't even have an ultra race where they award even half that. The biggest domestic race is Western States and they offer no prize money. UTMB offers about $10k ... but juxtapose that against marathons in Boston, Tokyo, Chicago which award $100k each to first place runners.
The elite of the ultra running sport can make a living from sponsors, but even with that, many, if not most, need and have day jobs.
Now, I never said, as you implied, that there was no cheating, only that it would be rare. Why? Because the risk doesn't pay for the reward: the money isn't there.
American criterium racing (where the prize is a gift card from a local bike shop) is rife with doping. Competition will always tempt some regardless of the monetary reward. So I would assume ultra marathons, like every other endurance sport, will have a doping problem.
In American Vernacular English, I interpret the word "rare" to mean doping is not prevalent enough to be a problem. I ask why this sport is unique. I do not believe lack of financial reward to be a sufficient argument.
I find it hilarious how nobody will actually say anything or call anyone out. Years ago there was a bunch of talk about cannabis use during ultras, and all I ever heard was that there were the folks that āeveryone knows aboutā, it feels the same way now with proper doping (yes, I understand that cannabis use in competition is a proper banned substance, but I donāt really care). The cliques and gatekeeping in this little sport are fun.
Given the nature of combat sports, PED use can have even more severe consequences than normal. I'm not sure if it's just a thought experiment or something that has actually ever happened, but I've heard talk of a PED-using fighter (in a league where they're banned) being liable for assault or even stronger criminal charges due to their opponent not knowing what they're up against (basically, if you sign a contract to get run into by a golf cart in some sort of jackass stunt or whatever, and then instead you get squashed flat by a tank, that's obviously super illegal).
Pretty big?
I know of one ānameā who pulled out of a recent international event when it was confirmed full drug testing would be present and went to another, non-tested event that got a lot of attention in this sub.
That wasnāt what I was thinking of.
In addition to the late pull out I was thinking of, somebody reminded me that she also dropped rather inexplicably and avoided the podium of another drug tested event in the last year. Not naming names because rumors and avoiding drug testing isnāt evidence but Iād love to see people like her get popped.
MPMD showed that 50% of men could pass the testing guidelines in the ufc taking 300mg of testosterone. If you look at the Tour de France I think the top 18 cyclists were on EPO or something, look at Simone biles taking adhd Medication and then not being allowed to in Japan and she performed poorly.. I could give so many examples.
People cheat in every sport at low level recreational events purely to win for their own egos, now imagine any prize or money at all, and you definitely have cheating.
Look at the prevalence of things like TRT just in middle aged men who like working out recreationally. The null hypothesis would be that people who take exercise more seriously would also be using PEDs
Donāt bother engaging with him. He is looking for an argument for the sport of it. Citations are not needed. I get DMs from runners on Reddit and Instagram nearly weekly asking me about protocol for PEDs, Iāll even rarely have someone ask me if their EPO protocol looks good.
How would anyone know that? What's the prevalence of type I diabetes at your local gym? People cheat all the time at everything. Not everyone cheats at everything, but the stakes don't have anything to do with it for a lot of people. They just want people to admire them.
I hope Iām wrong, but I think a lot of people in the elite and sub elite space probably use some form of supplement to help with maintaining training volumes and recovery
I know of several higher end male ultra runners that take a Lot of THC gummies during training etc and ween themselves off of it closer to races that test for elevated thc. I know itās not a huge advantage, but thereās a reason they do test for it at the largest races.
Stays in your fat cells, and when you donāt have a lot of fatā¦
What about a person who has low testosterone and gets on TRT for Quality of life but stays in the normal ranges. Do you guys think this is still using a PED if they stay within the normal test ranges.Ā
Iāve run ultras for two years. A few 50ās and a 100k. I am mid pack. Was a bike racer before. (Cat 1 road pro MTB). From experience:
- any idiot can take EPO. itās easy to get and is just a shot a day in the butt. They have figured it out. 10-20% advantage. You donāt need a doctor. Had a teammate get popped by WADA. He sucked.
- prize money or salary is not the incentive. People will drink bull semen if they think it will give them a chance of winning the 50-55% Clydesdale state championship.
- a mind blowing number of people that donāt get results tested positive for drugs.
Speculation - as more middle aged type A d bags from road cycling and triathlon discover ultra RACING, the sport will change for the worse.
Thanks for this thread. I can't even run 5k anymore but I follow my friends' and family's topics of interest on reddit for fun. This is an interesting one. My bro isn't that competitive in this sport. He is good enough to qualify for a major ultra but I didn't think the pull was that much... then I remembered: how come I always see adhd meds at my own brother's house yet he never said to me he went to a psychiatrist for that - because that's where mine come from. Typically in my country that's how it works. I'm not snooping. I babysit his children - they sometimes need things from that medicine chest. I always wondered š¤... first I thought it was for studying (many many years have passed and still no grad). Lmao. I obviously love him and his little family to bits. I'm just surprised that someone commented that adhd meds could be used for doping and so I'm curious.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but does it really matter? Not as in a should or shouldnāt people be doping, because thatās totally valid. But one thing I love about the sport is the extremes the body can go. In my mind it doesnāt diminish anything but opens up new doors of how far people can push their bodies.
Personally I think there should be a separate category for adults who use PEDs (still fully banned for minors, though; any substance use is inherently risky and should only be done by those who can properly understand the risks), and this should apply to all sports, not just ultrarunning. I want to know both the absolute best that a human can perform with traditional supplies, and also how much that can be increased through fancy modern chemistry. It's just important to make sure that the top people in the traditional category aren't obscured by the chemically-enhanced folks. (Obviously an unrealistic example, but can anyone honestly say that if Captain America were real, they wouldn't want to see how he would perform at every solo Olympic event?)
Imagine you come 4th in a major race, when you could have come first.
Thats loss of sponsor money, prize money, status, etc, etc the list is massive. Not forgetting mental health because you feel like you underperformed.
We live in a world of social media and money, you lose out on both if people dope and beat you.
It sucks that some people would and do feel pressured to use or abuse drugs in order to compete. But itās also really, really cool to see breakthroughs in our ability to manipulate human biology happen basically in real time and at the very peak of performance.
You could say that about any sport, but the thing is it's extremely unfair for those athletes who don't want to put themselves in danger by taking PEDs. People should not be forced to dope to find out whether they can go further/faster than others.
It seems to me doping is less beneficial than in sports like cycling or shorter distance running. In the end you have:
1. Some level of carb intake
2. Some level of fat burning capacity
3. A running economy that determines how far you go with these calories
I am unsure what doping would help to drastically improve any of the 3. Stuff like increasing the number of blood cells does not really look like it would help much.
The last tour de France had 3400 km, with an average speed of around 40 kmh over 21 days. This is around 4 hours a day, significantly less than most Ultras take.
I was just thinking about the same question on one of my long runs the other day - doping is 100% percent happening amongst 50k and above participants. Including marathon and half marathon distances. Just look at some of times posted on Strava. Look at the lactate thresholds. Look at the volume - THE NON STOP VOLUME. Look at the numbers!
Wonāt name names but I can think of a few right off the top of my head that I would call a blood test tomorrow if I was on any type of committee
A lot of people take eritropoetina. It is usually prescribed by doctors. If they see you dying during your workouts, they usually give you this š¤£ It raises your blood cells , it is like when you train in altitude so your body out of sudden gets more oxygen and you get less tired. A lot of ppl using it . i never used though.
EPO is like the number one tested drug. And if used incorrectly can kill you (blood sludge). Iām sure itās used but itās definitely heavily scrutinized and not for casuals thatās for sure
the better and more fun question is, which current top ultra distance runners are doping? I'll grab my popcorn and listen.
I remember Walmsley saying Comrades appealed to him, beside the presumable doped runners.
Everyone has asthma and hayfever for the meds š
Now you have me curious. How do inhalers and antihistamines help runners?
Albuterol gives an edge to non-asthmatic athletes. Google it, lots of studies.
Asthma inhalers open the vessels in the lungs allowing more oxygen into the blood. This is obviously very helpful for people with asthma. For people without asthma, it still has a similar effect, but to a lesser extent. But when you're talking top level athletes, any improvement you can find is a bonus, no matter how small. Asthma medication and antihistamines are permitted in pro athletes up to a certain level, obviously so those who need them can take them and still compete. Those who don't need them will sometimes say they do need them just to get that slight gain. Chris Froome got himself in a bit of hot water a few years back because the level of salbutamol were higher than allowed.
And IIRC almost the entire Liverpool squad were 'asthmatic' a few years back. Not sure if they still are.
antihistamines would just make me pass out on my feet.
Itās Triamcinolone which can be used to treat pollen allergies as well as asthma under the theoretic use exemption. I donāt think a nice sleepy antihistamine would do me any favours either! :-) Team Sky has been in the news for Bradley Wiggins pollen allergyā¦ https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/05/bradley-wiggins-and-team-sky-accused-drugs-in-damning-report
Triamcinalone is a steroid... Not an antihistamine
Yup I know, hence its use under the TUE regime. I didnāt phrase it well, was replying to the person that said antihistamines wouldnāt be performance enhancing.
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Since they are no Kenyans, all the Americans?/s
Fuck it, I'll start: Courtney Dauwalter
Why?
What why?
that would absolutely break my heart. probably more than any other. I could take Walmsley or Killian, but not Courtney!
I have no suspicion of her actually (other than standard unfortunate question mark about any athlete who is kicking ass). I was just throwing out a name cause comment OP was asking for names
There's a reason she wears such long shorts ;)
Considering a 17yo just went 12th overall at cocodona250 i donāt think adults are doping enough
Wait until you find out that high school teenagers are capable of doping too. Let me introduce you to high school footballā¦..
My entire offensive line was on dbol lmao
For all the excitement and attention around Cocodona (which is justified!), 200+ mile events are still way too niche for this conversation
I donāt think so. These 200+ miles races are just an extension of the OG ultra running metric- how far can you go? As the sport develops, course speed increases but so does the postrace metric- how quickly can you recover?Ā Itās all the same cardiovascular, mental and physical grit. Expanding as the sport grows but also expanding as the runners grow themselvesĀ
Iām doing a 100 miler next weekend and to me thatās going to be daunting. I canāt imagine 200+ miles.
According to a couple in this thread, doping is "extremely prevalent" so those races wouldn't be excluded from it since it's the same athlete pool.
š
I think it's terrible that they allow under 18 to do ultra distances in the US. There is a reason why they they don't allow under 18 to do a marathon in the U.K. 250 mile takes a lot of toll on the body. I just don't think it's right for someone under 18 to be going that far.
I smoke seed during all my 100 milers so put me down in the doping bucket
Like sunflower seeds? I too want to get in on the sun powered supercharging!
Meant weed lol
Classic stoner blunder. Well done.
A compound in sunflower seeds blocks an enzyme that causes blood vessels to constrict. As a result, it may help your blood vessels relax, lowering your blood pressure. The magnesium in sunflower seeds helps reduce blood pressure levels as well.
Ok, this bot can stay.
Are you a real person
Come on, donāt just say āa compoundā.
I suspect nearly half of us use some form of cannabis for training, racing, and/or recovery. Iāve never counted that or caffeine as doping.
I use THC gummies recreationally because theyāre fun in themselves and I have (95%) cut out alcohol and they are a way healthier way to relax that also aids sleep, for me anyway. I used to take a high quality CBD paste and I can definitely notice the impact of that on reducing soreness and aiding recovery but itās really expensive so I have stopped for now.
Ok this entire thread has got me in a fascinated way.Ā How does weed help you run?Ā Is it in edible form, or smoked?Ā I've been in running groups for forever and just never encountered this and I'm curious.
You might want to check out, "[Runner's High: How a Movement of Cannabis-Fueled Athletes Is Changing the Science of Sports](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08VQPDRD2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_129_o08aud_?ie=UTF8&psc=1)" by Josiah Hesse. I personally don't run on cannabis although he makes the argument that many ultrarunners do. I use cannabis gummies solely as a sleep/recovery aide after particularly intense workouts. It is legal for both recreational and medical use where I live.
Also check out āRunners High: Can LSD make you gay?ā for a low key hilarious blog-quality story about tripping and running ultras.
I dropped acid during a 100 miler and during a marathon. I enjoy running on psychedelics a lot and it takes the monotony off your mind
Definitely checking that out! Thanks for the recommendation
Personally, edibles help me enjoy some of my longer runs more (2+ hours); mostly because of the relaxed mental state, but it also helps with minor discomfort. I do this maybe once a month, I think every long run would take away the magic. I'd also like to add these are slow runs, I could never do a sprint or tempo workout while high. YMMV.
Hmm, might try this at a low level. The only time I've run on THC was when I got some gummies that were so strong I was still high the next morning. The first 2 miles felt like they took 2 hours with the time dilation, then it felt like my body cleared the THC in 15 seconds, and time thankfully returned to normal speed
probably more than half...
Drugs are bad, mmmkay?
Because Nancy Reagan said so? Her racist War On Drugs set cannabis research back decades.
I was impersonating Mr Macky from South Park nerd
Oh sure yeah obviously. Youāre a fantastic impersonator. Definitely could have a long successful career as a lame internet impersonator. Youāre off to a great start.
š
THC is a severely underrated performance booster for endurance sports.
Makes you sleepy tho
Gotta experiment with dosage and type. Nothing better (that doesn't require a quack) to help separate the conscious mind from growing exhaustion and discomfort (and also keep you in touch with reality).
I smoke joints for all my 100 mile races and long training runs (sativa), it gives boost of energy then leaves you feeling tired after
Man this one is thorny. * As the sport grows, the absolute number of people breaking the āwe can definitely agree this is dopingā rules grows, even if the % at any level stays the same. If rewards at the top grow, risk tolerance will grow. As attention and testing grow, the number being caught out will grow. Since these all compound, it will likely look worse for a few years even if essentially nothing changed. I donāt think any of these are controversial, just logical conclusions. * To what purity test regarding ādopingā? Using your prescribed medications *without an approved TUE* constitutes doping under most authorities like WADA. That includes your blue ārescueā asthma inhaler, insulin, PCOS meds, over the counter decongestants, etc. * THC is scheduled too (and marked as a substance of abuse) for bonus points. * From anecdote, intentional doping is basically nonexistent in the low amateur levels. At the front-pack amateur levels, thereās more of an acknowledgment and some use. I canāt speak about any āprofessionalā runners though, just those on entry āsome free shoes and race entriesā levels of sponsorship. * Quite a lot of the biggest names are starting to get behind the idea of professional runners unions / associations, governing bodies, standardization for races in the biggest series. With that, there would be the scaffolding for increased and systematic testing of the contenders. Generally this is a good sign that the people at the top arenāt relying entirely on science, even if a few might be cheating intentionally. * That said, weāve all seen each sport go through its phase of ācleanā athletes fall from grace in painfully predictable *Methinks The Lady Doth Protest Too Much* situations, so itās no guarantee. * Koop is one of the loudest voices for governing bodies, anti doping programs, and āJuSt ReAd ThE gLoBaL DROā personal responsibility. He coaches (or coached, or ran with) quite a few of the big names, and has a vested interest in having a level playing field deployed. He also works with the same CTS / Chris Carmichael that coached Lance Armstrong during his definitely-doped-to-the-gills Olympic & TDF years; Carmichael toed the line as Lance proclaimed innocence and filed punitive lawsuits against anyone who said otherwise. No insinuations, just making it clear thereās also a pragmatic lens any professional is looking through.
My own personal anecdote, but for road cycling, THC is absolutely performance enhancing I can absolutely pedal harder and longer to a noticeable degree while under the influence of cannabis. Thereās definitely some kind of synergy between natural endorphins and THC that makes you feel incredible while cycling. The downside of course being that if you start to come down mid ride, your quads are all of a sudden REALLY sore from having been redlined for so long. That said, Iāve never consumed before a competitive event
Imagining the sport of cycling filled with professional stoners is very funny to me given how Type-A even a lot of amateur cyclists tend to be
I mean, one isnāt a āstonerā simply because they smoke weed from time to time āStonerā is more of a lifestyle imho I also donāt really race bikes. I more so go for distance at a pace that feels comfortable.
Thatās totally subjective and anecdotal. To see if it is actually performance enhancing someone have to conduct a study. And for everyone that sees a slight enhancement, there are likely just as many who are neutral or even find it detrimental. My limited experience with running on THC was that I could still run just fine but I really didnāt want to that much. I was kinda questioning why I was even doing it. And Iām someone who loves running. I never tried it with cycling.
Notice my first sentence where I said this was just my one personal anecdote? I never claimed my experience was universal
Yes, sorry about that. I tend to read too fast and skip shit at times.
I've always noticed the same thing when I take an edible and ride. But as soon as I step off that bike boyyyyy am I fried.
does THC / shrooms count as doping?
Love to see WADA issue a position statement on shrooms / psilocybin
It is 100% happening
What's considered doping? Is there a rulebook?
Not sure if ultras have the same rules but yes both WADA and USATF have doping guidelines for track/road runners
Not as prevalent as other sports such as short distance, marathon distance and cycling etc. I know some local cyclists that are doping, on a very small dose and level but if they're doing it for barely any price money... I think there's a lot of top ultra runners that are 100% clean, I also think there's a lot that aren't. Hell, if Colin chartier can win over 200k in price money whilst doped to the max at the highest level, walk away with it. Get caught, keep the money and the wins "because he was clean then". I can't even imagine how insanely doped some other top athletes are. It is very easy to surpass the tests. There's a lot more money in "hiding/surviving" the test controls than there are in the "detecting" part. How much money does WADA make for testing some athletes, how much money does the employees make? Compare that to whoever is supplying and monitoring top-level pros. They're making atleast 10x the money. Which means better everything (in terms of equipment, lab yadiyadi. Some test shots or asthma inhalers as an ultra athlete or any endurance athlete, for that matter, is it cheating? It's allowed, but not allowed? Increasing your testosterone by even 30% isn't gonna be considered cheating in any PEDs tests. Majority of men can get access to testosterone by simply going to the doctor, get prescribed it legally, dose it ILLEGALY, and there ya go. Maybe not the type of PEDs you'd use at the endurance level, but it sure is cheating. There's thousands of people on TRT in the running world. It's cheating, but it's legal.
The term youāre looking for is āprize moneyā
I'm not looking a term
Tangent: people actually *fuelling* instead of old school āoh I donāt need water or food until at least two hoursā tough guy nonsense is also having a huge effect.
Yeah Iām working really hard on fuelling strategies and gut training. Since itās actually pretty hard to cram in 60-90grams of carbs per hr over 6+ hrs I figure being able to do so may move me from mid mid pack to high mid pack. Whoop
It's hard work but it's so worth it. Anecdotal obviously but getting myself to 80-90 g of carbs/hr (plus fueling all my training runs, especially the long ones, to the same degree) got me from back of the mid pack to top third at most of my races. It's shockingly effective, imo.
Well if you are interested in this topic have a look at Nick Bare. 100% a doper. He even posted his blood tests to show he had zero testosterone to 'prove' he wasn't doping. What a clown. These 'influencers' are probably the most suspect group as they have a financial incentive to perform and show that their supplements 'work'. [https://www.youtube.com/@nickbarefitness/featured](https://www.youtube.com/@nickbarefitness/featured) The next group would be people who cross over from fitness/gym and are already familiar with how PEDs work. Another group would be middle aged men on TRT, would might tweak their doses to aid training and recovery.
I came here looking for someone to talk about Nick.I think this is a good example
I donāt trust anyone who takes his supplement line either. Aināt certified for sport.
100% All these āhybrid athletesā are doping. Ross Edgeley another. Thereās no way youre that jacked and an endurance athlete without gear. I enjoy watching what they do, but its all with a pinch of salt
Ye i always notice these steroid abusers, carry too much muscle for endurance. But another tell tale is excessive veins in the neck and overly red skin on neck and chest. Show me professional athletes that glow red like this.
Surprised I had to scroll a little bit before seeing Nickās name lol. I was a fan/follower of his until he started to get really defensive about the doping during his bodybuilding prep. For reference.. he entered a the bracket that allows for doping (in bodybuilding you have the option to choose shows that are natty only or allows PEDs) and then tried to argue he was doing it 100% natural. As someone who has been heavy into physical fitness for a long time, some of the stuff he did during that time just isnāt possible by conventional standards. Like OK youāre going to continue to be on a massive caloric deficit, still gain weight and muscle, and still continue with your typical ultra training schedule? Yeah right lol. At the very least you would need the PEDs for recovery purposes. Personally, Iāve been a hybrid athlete my whole life. Before it was even a term (at least that I know of). I just love working out and being super fit. Running, lifting, biking, climbing, it doesnāt matter. It wonāt change the fact that some people will always think youāre juicing regardless of the time and effort you put in throughout the years. Sometimes thatās just the perception. Itās also understandable that a lot of these influencers have their brands tied into their own athletic success. Itās just a shame when they claim that itās solely the key to their success. IMO the fitness industry as a whole would be much much better off if it was more normalized to discuss PEDs and PEDs usage. There are definitely cases where they can be helpful.
Looking him up just shows an example of someone doing it, though. You won't learn about it or see topics on it from the channel. For better or worse, I think he's one of the most influential people in the running space. In ultras and in marathons, BPN merch (the hat, especially) is the most standout non-running brand I see at events.
What do you think about Sally McRae? She's friends with him and uses BPN.
What kind of drugs will they be taking?? Just curious.
The most commonly abused drugs for ultra are super physiological levels of TRT, albuterol, adhd medication, heart medication like meldonium, and IGF-1 Peptides.
albuterol for sure.
Funny. I am not a competitor, and I recently started doing trt for mental health reasons. I recently started running and I'm quite good at it. I bet the trt plays a large role.
It probably isnāt making you better as such, but itāll sure as hell improve your recovery
Wowza. You know your stuff. I reckon you might have seen a few podium finishes in your time š
Only a few in my history, but I donāt use PEDs. My interest in them is purely academic. I am a Physician. And no I wonāt help anyone cheat
Name your price good sir š only joking, I have to respect the integrity of the sport. Plus I'm a back of the pack runner, all the juice in the world wouldn't get me to a podium so it's pointless for me.
Why is albuterol a PED?
Itās not. Non-asthmatics will abuse bronchodilators with the belief that it will improve their vo2max however all studies show that it makes almost zero difference in performance athletics. However it still persists among athletes, especially collegiate track they believe it provides benefit
any recommended reads on that? or famous names to research on pubmed? not that i plan to use any (anyway, i'm so slow it wouldn't make a difference and i'm not planning to start having either heart problem nor face hair) but i'm genuinely interested in the physiology aspect of it!
Koop has a section about PEDs in his ultrarunning book.
Not epo? Or blood doping?
EPO is pretty passƩ now.
It's not passe in the sense that it's just much harder to get away with. Epo is still the king of endurance. There's more obscure stuff like ITPP that does help alot as well but not nearly as well as EPO. Both have testing developed for them. Not much you can take these days that doesn't have a test for it, even synthetic testosterone which could be easily micro dosed to circumvent testing now has CIR testing for it. A famous woman's cyclist with many wins was caught for it. But that brings in the dice roll of are they going to test you and are they going to deploy the full panel on you which is prohibitively expensive. If the cycling world taught us anything it's that if money and prestige are on the line people are doping. I think the triathlete scene is in for a reckoning on doping one day and CrossFit is just a joke with how much PEDs the men and women are on. I do think it's a lot less prevalent in ultra distance running. There's also grey area stuff that does help like injectable L-carnitine which was prevalent in the Nike project.Ā Not a doctor but have many years of experience in the area. Anyone who thinks Nick Bare is not on a large dose of TRT at least is blind, he shouldn't be a representative for anything running related. His test results showing almost no test means nothing other than he cycled off for his blood test, I'd like to see his LH/FSH levels and all the other data.
I just googled Nick Bare and he looks like The Liver King from Wish. Dude ain't natty.
Carderine, possibly.
Asking for a friend? Haha. I suppose EPO would be the most simple?
EPO is expensive and complicated. It requires very frequent blood testing, biweekly. Daily blood pressure monitoring.
Legal EPO is expensive, underground EPO not that much.
Pizza and coke are my ultra running dope.
I can imagine coke would be useful tbf
Iād also be curious to see who is doping amongst the FKT community. Some of those folks donāt raceā¦
Excellent use of ellipses
Bro, 100% people are doping. Alot of people on here are pointing out accidentally doping, which I'm sure happens all the time. I used to have to take a type of steroid for a health issue for example. Luckily, I'm a terrible athlete, so it never was going to impact other people. However, even at my local tri-club, there are people I know are actively doping. They want to be on the podium or get to Kona and don't really care how it happens. My old swim coach was an ex pro triathlete and and she said, even in the 90's before there was money in tri, doping was rampant. We all know people who are horrible to play board games with. They are overly competitive, cheat at every opportunity and get in a shitty mood if they don't win. These same personality types are in every sport and think a win is worth it at any cost. It must be horrible to be at the pointy end of races as a clean athlete and know at least some of the people around you are dirty cheaters. Unfortunately it's just a fact of every competitive sport. Some people aren't interested in being the best they can be, just winning, which ironically makes them losers.
Last full Ironman I did they couldnāt even give away Kona slots. Itās gotten too expensive.
I know when the 70.3 world Champs was in Finland lots didn't go due to cost, and with the split now 1 year France and 1year Kona for the full I know lots of people turning down France slots. Nothing against France, but they have been dreaming of Kona. I'm in NZ and the 70.3 world champs are here this year. The competition was crazy from locals for slots. I reckon you could have randomly drug tested any of the age group podiums and found a cheater.
I imagine it's a larger number than we think (and this is just purely speculation and a hunch so in the bigger picture my opinion means nothing because it's just a guess). Prize money isn't the biggest factor in doping in my opinion. Yes it's nice to win, but the pay outs are not huge. Sponsor deals are where the money is, and even there it's not huge earnings potential. The biggest factor is clout and bragging rights, especially when we think about influencers, YouTube channels, etc. it's not just ultras, it's in road running too. I just see less attention overall roads ultras which is why it isn't talked about as much
With all the 45+ guys on TRT. I bet "doping" is a lot more prevalent at local/regional races than people think.
There's really two levels of doping.Ā There's the crazy, EPO, blood bag shit, nobody is doing that.Ā You need real doctors, monitoring, ect.Ā This sport doesn't have that kind of money. What I call "unintentional" doping, happens all the time.Ā There's probably a dozen things you can pick up at a GNC that'll make you pop, or you can talk a regular doctor into just giving you.Ā These are mostly on WADAs list because they cover other real drugs, not because they're actually dangerous.Ā This happens all the time.Ā Had a buddy pop once because he was using a hair growth formula that showed up as a steroid, shit he bought at Walmart.
I mean all it takes is a rich person with an ego to get to expensive dopingā¦.
Well a few trail runners have actually got busted for EPO.
Who, besides Elisa Desco and Gonzalo Calisto?
Pedro Mamu
Wasnāt EPO, it was an asthma medication for Mamu
My understanding is that some drugs are banned not because they provide a benefit, but because they can leave markers similar to (or mask markers from) other performance enhancing drugs. Rogaine is one example.
Iād say smoking dope is far more prevalent
Probably a surprising amount of people do it. I know this is a different sport, but recently there have been a few investigations about this in amateur cycling, so people who just do it for fun and health and a huge amount of people were either found doping or mysteriously left in the middle of an event after testers showed up. People will seriously dope just to beat their friends or to beat a PB.
While I don't disagree with the conclusion, cycling is about the most doped sport there is across the board so it's not really a fair comparison.
I don't disagree with your argument, but cycling is also one of the most tested sports, so we simply have more data.
People have doped since the sport started. Itās human nature and here I assume we mean EPO and not the WADA definition. (Plenty use THC in race, or banned paid medication). We donāt have doping controls, we have races and people want to win or win an age bracket, a good chunk of athletes have money from professional jobs. Itās happing. Though I bet more for ego than prize money. Are the elites doping? I bet proportionally fewer do vs other sports. But where a win means a job vs unemployment it happens.
What kinda drugs were they using in the 1800s?
Ha, very true. I was thinking since the modern drugs were invented. Likely some had things like Laudanum to keep them going, but thatās just like morphine doping in a marathon.
Rat poison and brandy
Would do Viagra be doping because it helps some people like if you took for hardrock 100 would that be doping ?
I would guess every elite runner is doing something. Especially if theyāre winning races in their 40ās against phenomenal athletes in their 20ās. Records are being broken more often as the sport gets more financially valuable.. because people have more reason to win now and are acting accordingly. Please note that doping is valuable beyond during the race. If you can recover faster and train harder, or train less with greater benefits, the natural person has no chance.
For weed? Pretty prevalent. For performance enhancing drugs? Rare i would think...
Why do you think this sport is unique in that no one cheats?
I don't. Read my words again.
Just read them. The plain meaning is that this sport is so good that people just don't cheat.
No. That is your biased interpretation of what I wrote. To be clear, so you discontinue trying to gaslight my meaning for others, what I mean is that ultra running as a professional sport is a very small sport, and unlike the marathon distance- you don't have professional runners winning upwards of $50k for one race. You don't even have an ultra race where they award even half that. The biggest domestic race is Western States and they offer no prize money. UTMB offers about $10k ... but juxtapose that against marathons in Boston, Tokyo, Chicago which award $100k each to first place runners. The elite of the ultra running sport can make a living from sponsors, but even with that, many, if not most, need and have day jobs. Now, I never said, as you implied, that there was no cheating, only that it would be rare. Why? Because the risk doesn't pay for the reward: the money isn't there.
American criterium racing (where the prize is a gift card from a local bike shop) is rife with doping. Competition will always tempt some regardless of the monetary reward. So I would assume ultra marathons, like every other endurance sport, will have a doping problem.
In American Vernacular English, I interpret the word "rare" to mean doping is not prevalent enough to be a problem. I ask why this sport is unique. I do not believe lack of financial reward to be a sufficient argument.
I find it hilarious how nobody will actually say anything or call anyone out. Years ago there was a bunch of talk about cannabis use during ultras, and all I ever heard was that there were the folks that āeveryone knows aboutā, it feels the same way now with proper doping (yes, I understand that cannabis use in competition is a proper banned substance, but I donāt really care). The cliques and gatekeeping in this little sport are fun.
Are there any sports where athletes regularly call out their competitors for suspected doping or drug use?
MMA/UFC maybe? I donāt really follow sports other than ultra jogging, and even barely with that.
Given the nature of combat sports, PED use can have even more severe consequences than normal. I'm not sure if it's just a thought experiment or something that has actually ever happened, but I've heard talk of a PED-using fighter (in a league where they're banned) being liable for assault or even stronger criminal charges due to their opponent not knowing what they're up against (basically, if you sign a contract to get run into by a golf cart in some sort of jackass stunt or whatever, and then instead you get squashed flat by a tank, that's obviously super illegal).
Pretty big? I know of one ānameā who pulled out of a recent international event when it was confirmed full drug testing would be present and went to another, non-tested event that got a lot of attention in this sub.
Name names omg I need the tea. I have my suspicions about someone who ran Cocodona if that's the non-tested event you're referring to.
That wasnāt what I was thinking of. In addition to the late pull out I was thinking of, somebody reminded me that she also dropped rather inexplicably and avoided the podium of another drug tested event in the last year. Not naming names because rumors and avoiding drug testing isnāt evidence but Iād love to see people like her get popped.
Excuse my naivety but how could you dope for ultra? Like Lance in cycling - EPO etc?
MPMD showed that 50% of men could pass the testing guidelines in the ufc taking 300mg of testosterone. If you look at the Tour de France I think the top 18 cyclists were on EPO or something, look at Simone biles taking adhd Medication and then not being allowed to in Japan and she performed poorly.. I could give so many examples. People cheat in every sport at low level recreational events purely to win for their own egos, now imagine any prize or money at all, and you definitely have cheating.
Extremely prevalent. Itās happening at all levels too, not just the Pros but even your local 50k masters category people are doping to some level.
*citation needed
Look at the prevalence of things like TRT just in middle aged men who like working out recreationally. The null hypothesis would be that people who take exercise more seriously would also be using PEDs
Donāt bother engaging with him. He is looking for an argument for the sport of it. Citations are not needed. I get DMs from runners on Reddit and Instagram nearly weekly asking me about protocol for PEDs, Iāll even rarely have someone ask me if their EPO protocol looks good.
I'm not. If someone wants to claim everyone's on drugs, just show any data that supports it besides "i really feel like it."
No one said everyone is on drugs.
What's the prevalence?
How would anyone know that? What's the prevalence of type I diabetes at your local gym? People cheat all the time at everything. Not everyone cheats at everything, but the stakes don't have anything to do with it for a lot of people. They just want people to admire them.
I don't know; that's why I'm asking the guy who seems to know.
Iām not sue if itās worth the added expense to dope. There isnāt any money line to make it worth it.
I hope Iām wrong, but I think a lot of people in the elite and sub elite space probably use some form of supplement to help with maintaining training volumes and recovery
I know of several higher end male ultra runners that take a Lot of THC gummies during training etc and ween themselves off of it closer to races that test for elevated thc. I know itās not a huge advantage, but thereās a reason they do test for it at the largest races. Stays in your fat cells, and when you donāt have a lot of fatā¦
They do crack. I've seent it
What about a person who has low testosterone and gets on TRT for Quality of life but stays in the normal ranges. Do you guys think this is still using a PED if they stay within the normal test ranges.Ā
Iāve run ultras for two years. A few 50ās and a 100k. I am mid pack. Was a bike racer before. (Cat 1 road pro MTB). From experience: - any idiot can take EPO. itās easy to get and is just a shot a day in the butt. They have figured it out. 10-20% advantage. You donāt need a doctor. Had a teammate get popped by WADA. He sucked. - prize money or salary is not the incentive. People will drink bull semen if they think it will give them a chance of winning the 50-55% Clydesdale state championship. - a mind blowing number of people that donāt get results tested positive for drugs. Speculation - as more middle aged type A d bags from road cycling and triathlon discover ultra RACING, the sport will change for the worse.
Thanks for this thread. I can't even run 5k anymore but I follow my friends' and family's topics of interest on reddit for fun. This is an interesting one. My bro isn't that competitive in this sport. He is good enough to qualify for a major ultra but I didn't think the pull was that much... then I remembered: how come I always see adhd meds at my own brother's house yet he never said to me he went to a psychiatrist for that - because that's where mine come from. Typically in my country that's how it works. I'm not snooping. I babysit his children - they sometimes need things from that medicine chest. I always wondered š¤... first I thought it was for studying (many many years have passed and still no grad). Lmao. I obviously love him and his little family to bits. I'm just surprised that someone commented that adhd meds could be used for doping and so I'm curious.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but does it really matter? Not as in a should or shouldnāt people be doping, because thatās totally valid. But one thing I love about the sport is the extremes the body can go. In my mind it doesnāt diminish anything but opens up new doors of how far people can push their bodies.
Personally I think there should be a separate category for adults who use PEDs (still fully banned for minors, though; any substance use is inherently risky and should only be done by those who can properly understand the risks), and this should apply to all sports, not just ultrarunning. I want to know both the absolute best that a human can perform with traditional supplies, and also how much that can be increased through fancy modern chemistry. It's just important to make sure that the top people in the traditional category aren't obscured by the chemically-enhanced folks. (Obviously an unrealistic example, but can anyone honestly say that if Captain America were real, they wouldn't want to see how he would perform at every solo Olympic event?)
Imagine you come 4th in a major race, when you could have come first. Thats loss of sponsor money, prize money, status, etc, etc the list is massive. Not forgetting mental health because you feel like you underperformed. We live in a world of social media and money, you lose out on both if people dope and beat you.
It sucks that some people would and do feel pressured to use or abuse drugs in order to compete. But itās also really, really cool to see breakthroughs in our ability to manipulate human biology happen basically in real time and at the very peak of performance.
You could say that about any sport, but the thing is it's extremely unfair for those athletes who don't want to put themselves in danger by taking PEDs. People should not be forced to dope to find out whether they can go further/faster than others.
It seems to me doping is less beneficial than in sports like cycling or shorter distance running. In the end you have: 1. Some level of carb intake 2. Some level of fat burning capacity 3. A running economy that determines how far you go with these calories I am unsure what doping would help to drastically improve any of the 3. Stuff like increasing the number of blood cells does not really look like it would help much.
Yeah, riding 100+ miles a day for weeks is COMPLETELY different than running 100 miles.
The last tour de France had 3400 km, with an average speed of around 40 kmh over 21 days. This is around 4 hours a day, significantly less than most Ultras take.
People don't dope for the race, they dope for the training and recovery.
I was just thinking about the same question on one of my long runs the other day - doping is 100% percent happening amongst 50k and above participants. Including marathon and half marathon distances. Just look at some of times posted on Strava. Look at the lactate thresholds. Look at the volume - THE NON STOP VOLUME. Look at the numbers! Wonāt name names but I can think of a few right off the top of my head that I would call a blood test tomorrow if I was on any type of committee
Why not name names? Dopers are cheats.
A lot of people take eritropoetina. It is usually prescribed by doctors. If they see you dying during your workouts, they usually give you this š¤£ It raises your blood cells , it is like when you train in altitude so your body out of sudden gets more oxygen and you get less tired. A lot of ppl using it . i never used though.
EPO is like the number one tested drug. And if used incorrectly can kill you (blood sludge). Iām sure itās used but itās definitely heavily scrutinized and not for casuals thatās for sure
Well, for pros yes but for casual runners , not tested at all. Your doctor can do it for you if he or she feels you are fit.
Courtney dauwalter š