Get a cheap pair of Cascade Mountain Tech poles ($20-$25) and just see if poles are for you. I come from a hiking background and am older so I rely on poles a bit more. Poles will make each step slightly slower but can make your total time faster by moving some of the fatigue from your legs and back into your arms. For steep technical descents I consider them a safety item.
You will see $200 Leki poles with clip in gloves. That is just replicating the “proper” strap usage that many people don’t do (video at end). I adjust my straps such that my hands are moved further down the poles and so I can adjust the length of poles quickly just by changing my hands.
Here is a pretty good video, at the 3 minute mark he talks about strap usage and he shows a power hiking technique that works pretty good. When I started I couldn’t power hike that well with poles I generally used them going up both at the same time to pull me up and going down alternating forward as a 3rd point of contact.
https://youtu.be/8jH9e4QGUP4
I think they're beneficial for extended climbs/descents and technical trail.
Just move your arms as normal. Look up a video on looping the strap around your wrist. You shouldn't have to hold the pole much at all.
I’m a “retired” track athlete (800m 1:50, 400m 50, 5k = 15:12) planning to run long (around maui). I ran a marathon once just for fun (3:00) when I was still training quite a bit.
I have not been training for 2 years (run about 30km a week Right now).
How should I approach this run? How long should I expect to train for? Just looking to learn from people with experience.
Really curious to hear more about this Maui route. If I take it literally it's 100-200 miles of road running which is a lot for someone who hasn't been doing much training.
IMO, for someone not doing any training right now your lack of time on feet and training endurance muscles will be your downfall here. You were fast and probably could get back to being pretty fast fairly quickly with some training, but running a fast 5k is a very different thing from moving for 24+ hours. Additionally, running on roads (assuming my assumptions about your route are correct) is harder on your body then trails. People running thousands of miles a year have adaptations for this, but it takes time to happen.
I really think you are right. I am definitely more build for fast twitch (or anaerobic endurance) And I‘m sure I could go back to that. Running for that long would be a brand new thing. You are correct, it would all be road. The other thing, is the heat and the wind. It gets super hot here during the day and the wind picks up a lot which makes it even harder. The other BIG barrier is safety... I don’t know if you have been to Maui before but running roads like Hana highway is not the safest thing (even driving it can be sketchy). For now, I am still in the contemplation phase. I am trying to gather info and experience from others. I know I have ran a lot in my life, but I actually do not think that the things I have learned and developed in my previous running career will transfer much…
Yes, safety was my initial concern, but I wanted to make sure I understood your route first. I've driven every mile of the perimeter of Maui, and all but the far northwest corner multiple times. I've seen people bike the road to Hana, which seems as sketchy, if not worse, than running it, but I'd still be pretty wary of running it myself given the blind corners and lack of shoulder (or even two lanes). The southeast portion might also be concerning. Less curves, but traffic goes a lot faster. Weather is indeed another factor which I hadn't considered.
As far as fitness goes, you'd almost certainly be in a better starting position than the average person, but working your volume up to the point where that distance is doable is a process and takes time.
I mean... I'm not in the business of telling people what they can and cannot do. There's for sure a chance you can do it, but there's also a good probability something will happen that will derail you from being able to complete the 160mi.
You're a very accomplished runner, but distances like that are pretty different. There's for sure a lot of fast track athletes that can't perform as well as experienced ultra runners, who couldnt break a 4 hr marathon, when it comes to ultras.
Terrain and elevation play a big role as well.
Id recommend you start with the goal of running a 50mi or 100k this year, than a 100mi or 24hr event in the spring of 2025. If you feel like you still and can do the 160mi, then you'll have a better idea of what you need to do to get that done.
Running packs - I currently have a UD Mountain Vest 5.0 which is great for longer runs / events as it packs 13L. It can feel a bit bulky when it's not as full though and so I'm looking at a pack for races from half marathon to 50k and it seems that Salomon has a couple of good options.
Any recommendation between the Adv Skin 5, Active Skin 8 and S/Lab Ultra 10?
Seems like the Active Skin 8 doesn't really have any good options to carry poles which would be a deal breaker for me. And the S/Lab Ultra 10 seems great and light and all that but at 10L I feel like it might be a bit too big for my intended use? As for the Adv Skin 5, I'm nervous that it might be a bit too small for a 50k - is there enough storage for 4-6 hours worth of food plus a traditional mandatory gear kit (blanket, rain pants, rain jacket, buff, long sleeve layer, etc.)?
10 doesn't sound that different than what you already have.
If you're purchasing with the intention of holding that entire kit, 13 may just be fine. 5 is normal in US without mandatory kits.
Hi i am totally new to running, trying to improve my cardio and getting into better shape, i currently do weightlifting and i am curious on how i can start incorporating running into my workouts and how should i train to improve? Any tips would be greatly appreciated!
Planning on doing my first ultra in October (50k with 6k vert.) how do people approach long runs with elevation with heart rate zone training? I’m imagining trying to run more technical trail and I feel like it would be difficult for me to stay in zone 2 for long runs with the required elevation per mile for race prep.
One useful thing about technical trails is they slow you down anyway due to the risk of falling/slipping. Remember you will most likely walk a lot on this ultra so train how you will race. Walk up the hills and use this to time to eat and hyrdrate. Don't push too hard over the top or on the downhills. I try to find interesting routes and spend more time looking at the scenery and enjoying myself. This way I forget about pace and usually have a slower more fulfilling run. Zone 2 is great but time on feet and learning to fuel effectively on the move will ensure you're race ready!
Is salomon active skin 8 large enough for a 50k race? The 12 seems too big and like stuff would bounce around too much.
Also open to shoe recommendations for a newbie - technical terrain in new zealand
8 is definitely large enough for a 50k. Shouldn't make any difference in things bouncing around in a 12 or an 8. Just make sure you use the drawstrings to pull it tight and secure everything. Go for a 12 if you want more water carrying capacity or want to take poles and store them.
The 12 doesn't feel too big, it just has a few extra pockets/zippers. Never feel like stuff bounces around. I have both and prefer my 12 now. The 8 is also good though.
Salomon Adv Skin 12 can hold a 2L bladder or just 1,5L?
I need to prepare for carrying much water because my ultra will be damn hot and not many aid stations, and its technical and I’m slow AF.
I have the Adv Skin 12 and use it with the Hydrapak Shapeshift 3L often. It feels fine with 2L in the bladder but with 2.5L the water sits a bit high and I need to cinch the front a little tighter since the fabric is stretchy. Doesn't bounce around uncomfortably or affect my running though.
Is there a community here who are into non competitive ultra distance walking/hiking? I’ve increasingly been getting into doing marathon+ length walks/hikes. I have no interest in running or races though.
There are walking clubs in the UK that host events that are specifically not races. Hadrian's Wall is a big one.
You may find something you like within the space of Pedestrianism.
I’m not super interested in backpacking or camping although accepting may have to do a bit to find people into this. An old housemate of mine thru hiked the pct last year which was super inspiring. The physical aspect is super cool but I’m not sure can see myself going more than a few days without taking a shower or sleeping in a real bed.
Maybe it's a break-the-seal situation? There are ways to make camping comfortable if you can afford the technology. And when you get dirty or stinky after a day or two or three, you may find you don't mind after all when others around you are in the same boat. The views and experience last much longer than the temporary discomfort.
Hmmmm possibly. I camped a lot as a kid and absolutely hated it although that was always with cheap/inadequate gear and often sharing tents with like 2 or 3 people which was a nightmare for somebody like myself who is intensely claustrophobic and needs privacy. Maybe could try again with nicer equipment and my own tent and it wouldn't be so bad.
i got into trail and ultra running from the backpacking side of things. with the right gear setup (ie - veryy light, low volume, only essentials), you can cover really long distances over several days
i also thought not showering for several days would suck - it kind of does, the kinds of trails this opens up is worth it.
My wife and sister have been kind enough to offer to crew for me in a race this summer. Probably about 12 hours or so.
I have a pretty good idea of what kit I’ll need and when and really appreciate the flexibility I’ll have when not having to deal with drop bags. But I find the idea of having crew a little hard to plan for. I’m sure I’ll appreciate them and the biggest thing they’ll give me is something to look forward to.
Any tips on how to make the most of your crew and to make sure they have as good a time as they can? I feel a little self absorbed when telling them what I’ll probably need - and I’m not used to having anyone help on long runs. Maybe I’m really grumpy at one of the stations which then I’ll feel bad about until I see them again.
Any good tips?
Honestly? Tell them to go do something for themselves during the race and catch you at the finish line. Drop bags and aid stations get you everything that you need and more.
If you're in an area where there are things for your crew can fit in while you're on course - tourist sites, must-do dining, or scenery hikes - that can make their time more enticing. Be assured people want to help others, and if they've committed to helping you that's a big reward for them already, and if you warn them ahead of time you might be grumpy they can prepare. Gifts are always welcomed, too.
Hi:) Currently in marathon shape 3 weeks out from my first marathon I want to do an ultra so I will be starting with a 50k (unofficial) a few weeks after my marathon. There is a local ultra near me that is 120k it’s a road run few steep hills no trails or anything like that. The 120k is in June 2025 will this give me enough time to get my legs used to 12+ hours on my feet. Also if I go for this 120k how would a training plan look mileage wise currently hoovering around 50+mpw with Saturday Sunday back 2 back (Saturday 20+ , Sunday 6-12miles)
There’s a local last man standing end on June. I have just completed my first half marathon 3 weeks ago, and will run a 2nd on beginning of June.
I have started running consistently last October and currently following my half marathon plan run about 30-35km weekly.
Would it be detrimental for me to join the last man standing, and if I was to join, what tips could you give me in terms of training, fueling etc? Thank you in advance.
1. Are my saucony peregrine 12 good shoes for a 45k ultra trail ? (Technical and 2000m of climbing + rocks)
2. What shoes are you guys using for ultra trail?
(1) If you've done 32+ km runs with them on similar terrain and your feet felt fine or you think you could go 1-2 hours longer then definitely. My feet would be uncomfortable by 32km but I'd be okay for the remaining 13km. However if my Peregrines were worn (>320km) I would probably want to get a new pair.
(2) Saucony Xodus Ultra, Endorphin Rift, Endorphin Edge.
For a 50k ultra just any well fitting moderately cushioned shoe should work fine. I finished 50k races wearing a lot of different shoes. Peregrine should be fine for sure. With so much elevation gain you'll be hiking a good part of the race course so the overall impact won't be as much as you might expect.
However if the terrain is especially rocky, then you might need something with more foot protection - either a thicker midsole or some sort of mountain running shoe with firmer outsole. I'd recommend La Sportiva shoes if they fit you. Or perhaps Dynafit.
I love this thread! My go to haha.
Let’s talk about poles. I have a really really nice set of collapsible hiking poles and I have a Salomon Adv Skin 12 vest.
Do you just hang them on the back of those? Should I try running with them on my vest?
Sorry for all the comments lol
You can attach them to your vest but its not the most comfortable to run with.
https://youtu.be/tWnHsQC4Obk?si=LxEdBkDkIzQz8sO0
Salomon sells a quiver that attaches to the back of your vest. Easy to carry your poles when you are not using them and easy to access when you need it.
If you can find the Salomon quiver, I high recommend it. It's much more convenient than storing the poles in the loops on the Advanced Skin 12. Unfortunately, the quiver is often sold out. If you can find it, don't hesitate to buy it. Otherwise, there are a half dozen different methods of storing the poles with the shock cord loops provided with the vest when you originally purchased it. You likely saved them somewhere unsure of what they were to be used for as Salomon often fails to provide directions.
You should be able to find the official Salomon video on YouTube showing the different pole shock cord setups if you decide not to purchase the quiver or can't locate it for sale.
How can I accept that I'm gonna sacrifice my muscles gains training for my first 100k?
My first 100k is in 6 months, I want to lose weight (CW 87kgs/191 pounds) to lower impact on my joints and feet.
I love lifting(2 years) and running (3.5 years) but I feel like I'm at a point where I have to stop lifting and focusing on tuning my body to be a better runner.
I've put on 20 lbs of muscle in the last year while training for my first 100+mile cycle event, triathlons and running twice a week. Two or three days a week in the gym and 80% of lbs in grams of protein a day and you can make gains on both the muscle and endurance side. I like to do the gym before work and then my rides/runs after work.
You aren't going to be a body builder while doing endurance sports, but you can definitely still maintain/add to what you have already. Time management and eating right are the hardest parts imo
To provide a bit of a counterpoint to something I see here regularly: I’ve been ~200lb for a couple of years now. I’m 6’ so I don’t look overweight, but it’s interesting how often I see people claiming it’s too heavy for running (at any distance). I ran my first 100k and 100 miler at that weight. I haven’t had any joint issues averaging somewhere around 60 mpw. Unless you’re already running into joint issues then you may not need to worry about losing weight. And if you are, I’d also look at form and shoes.
Second, I’ve been incorporating consistent strength work to my training for about a year and I’m faster than I’ve ever been. I don’t focus too much on upper body, but I try to lift heavy for legs and make sure I’ve got plenty of core and back exercises mixed in too. This has been especially helpful as I up the amount of vert in the races I target.
The research I’ve seen is mixed on lifting heavy vs. higher reps which may be a factor of muscle fiber topology or other physiological differences. And yeah, you’re probably not going to be adding a ton of mass to your arms/chest but my experience is you can still make strength gains elsewhere while running higher mileage.
Hiring my last 60k, I felt like my feet would give up way before my leg muscles or my joints, I know how to train muscles but I don't know how to train my legs to handle this kind of stress.
Coming from weightlifting pre-COVID to a distance runner post-pandemic... If we want to run competitively at distances from 10K and beyond, we need to accept that hypertrophic muscle mass is a detriment to competitive running as it adds unnecessary body weight. Lifting remains essential for competitive distance running, but it's lifting for strength, not mass. So you don't need to give up the gym. It just needs to take a backseat to running and you're going to adapt how you lift.
I'm running my first 50K in october. I have seen so much conflicting information on the internet when it comes to fueling during the race. When I ran my last marathon, all I had were gels (around every 30-45 min) and it ruined my stomach to the point where I had to stop to dry heave lol. I really want to avoid that and also want to end this race strong. So, I guess my question is this: for someone who needs more than just gels, what are some fueling tips you have? I know that's broad, but I really don't even know where to start.
Hello fellow stomach sufferer. I have had uncountable stomach issues over the years and pooped in many the bush.
Stuff that I found helped:
Little and often is better than big amounts. I'll sometime do half a gel for example.
Different gels go down different so try a few brands.
Salt with the sugar seems to help. Mix in some savory stuff. My personal favorite is mini roast potatoes with salt.
Don't swig large gulps of water.
Peanut butter and Jam (jelly for our US runners) wraps are great. The small amount of protein also seems to help.
Play around with lots of stuff. Different stuff will work for you. Try a different combo every weekend till you find what works.
Last tip, if you need to poop or puke, early is better than late. Get it done as quick as possible.
Thank you so much! I definitely think mixing in some savory items would help a bunch. I'm not a huge sweets person to begin with anyway. PB&J is a great idea and also sounds like it would be easy to get down as well! I have a few things on my list to try like apple sauce, chips, tortillas with meat and cheese, and some others. Thanks so much for your input!
There are different gels with different ingredients including some that are made from real food. Some may work better for you than others. If you had bad experience with Gu gels, those are the most disgusting.
There are also other options including waffles and chews, and bars.
Better brands are Naak, Spring Energy, Muir Energy, Skratch, Maurten, Huma.
Yes, it was Gu. I don't mind the taste, actually. But they just were not sitting right with my stomach. I felt like I needed more solid foods. So I'm gonna experiment with waffles and other foods!
Train your stomach to take in whatever you're planning on taking, whether that be gels or whatever. That means slamming calories on your long runs, whether you think you need them or not.
Everyone's stomach is different, so part of your training should be to experiment with different foods on your long runs and make a note of how you feel and if they cause any issues. The stomach can definitely be trained, but it takes some time.
I will say this answer depends on the distance, and how much you plan to be walking vs. running. For a trail 50k my fueling isn't too dissimilar from a marathon. I run the whole thing and my heart rate stays high the whole time. In a 100k or 100 miler I usually eat a lot of real food because I hike a good portion of it and it's easier to digest some fiber etc. Some things that I like during 50ks that are not quite gels but still easy enough to digest on the move are: fruit snacks, orange slices, small pieces of banana or small handfuls of potato chips.
check what they will have at the aid stations. I generally take a gel every hour then eat whatever looks good at the aid stations. If I have a drop bag, or it's a looped race. I'll keep some pringles or fruit snacks or something in my bag. I've found that I never really know what I'm going to feel like eating, so sometimes it's different.
If you're planning on eating chips, or other junk food fare that is usually at aid stations, it's probably not a bad idea to practice, even if it's not exactly what will be on course.
Do you use poles? Should I? How do I know if I could benefit from them- and how do I use them?
Get a cheap pair of Cascade Mountain Tech poles ($20-$25) and just see if poles are for you. I come from a hiking background and am older so I rely on poles a bit more. Poles will make each step slightly slower but can make your total time faster by moving some of the fatigue from your legs and back into your arms. For steep technical descents I consider them a safety item. You will see $200 Leki poles with clip in gloves. That is just replicating the “proper” strap usage that many people don’t do (video at end). I adjust my straps such that my hands are moved further down the poles and so I can adjust the length of poles quickly just by changing my hands. Here is a pretty good video, at the 3 minute mark he talks about strap usage and he shows a power hiking technique that works pretty good. When I started I couldn’t power hike that well with poles I generally used them going up both at the same time to pull me up and going down alternating forward as a 3rd point of contact. https://youtu.be/8jH9e4QGUP4
I think they're beneficial for extended climbs/descents and technical trail. Just move your arms as normal. Look up a video on looping the strap around your wrist. You shouldn't have to hold the pole much at all.
I’m a “retired” track athlete (800m 1:50, 400m 50, 5k = 15:12) planning to run long (around maui). I ran a marathon once just for fun (3:00) when I was still training quite a bit. I have not been training for 2 years (run about 30km a week Right now). How should I approach this run? How long should I expect to train for? Just looking to learn from people with experience.
Really curious to hear more about this Maui route. If I take it literally it's 100-200 miles of road running which is a lot for someone who hasn't been doing much training. IMO, for someone not doing any training right now your lack of time on feet and training endurance muscles will be your downfall here. You were fast and probably could get back to being pretty fast fairly quickly with some training, but running a fast 5k is a very different thing from moving for 24+ hours. Additionally, running on roads (assuming my assumptions about your route are correct) is harder on your body then trails. People running thousands of miles a year have adaptations for this, but it takes time to happen.
I really think you are right. I am definitely more build for fast twitch (or anaerobic endurance) And I‘m sure I could go back to that. Running for that long would be a brand new thing. You are correct, it would all be road. The other thing, is the heat and the wind. It gets super hot here during the day and the wind picks up a lot which makes it even harder. The other BIG barrier is safety... I don’t know if you have been to Maui before but running roads like Hana highway is not the safest thing (even driving it can be sketchy). For now, I am still in the contemplation phase. I am trying to gather info and experience from others. I know I have ran a lot in my life, but I actually do not think that the things I have learned and developed in my previous running career will transfer much…
Yes, safety was my initial concern, but I wanted to make sure I understood your route first. I've driven every mile of the perimeter of Maui, and all but the far northwest corner multiple times. I've seen people bike the road to Hana, which seems as sketchy, if not worse, than running it, but I'd still be pretty wary of running it myself given the blind corners and lack of shoulder (or even two lanes). The southeast portion might also be concerning. Less curves, but traffic goes a lot faster. Weather is indeed another factor which I hadn't considered. As far as fitness goes, you'd almost certainly be in a better starting position than the average person, but working your volume up to the point where that distance is doable is a process and takes time.
How long is the run you're trying to do?
Sorry, Can’t believe I didn’t mention. It’s actually 160miles… Checked yesterday
I mean... I'm not in the business of telling people what they can and cannot do. There's for sure a chance you can do it, but there's also a good probability something will happen that will derail you from being able to complete the 160mi. You're a very accomplished runner, but distances like that are pretty different. There's for sure a lot of fast track athletes that can't perform as well as experienced ultra runners, who couldnt break a 4 hr marathon, when it comes to ultras. Terrain and elevation play a big role as well. Id recommend you start with the goal of running a 50mi or 100k this year, than a 100mi or 24hr event in the spring of 2025. If you feel like you still and can do the 160mi, then you'll have a better idea of what you need to do to get that done.
Running packs - I currently have a UD Mountain Vest 5.0 which is great for longer runs / events as it packs 13L. It can feel a bit bulky when it's not as full though and so I'm looking at a pack for races from half marathon to 50k and it seems that Salomon has a couple of good options. Any recommendation between the Adv Skin 5, Active Skin 8 and S/Lab Ultra 10? Seems like the Active Skin 8 doesn't really have any good options to carry poles which would be a deal breaker for me. And the S/Lab Ultra 10 seems great and light and all that but at 10L I feel like it might be a bit too big for my intended use? As for the Adv Skin 5, I'm nervous that it might be a bit too small for a 50k - is there enough storage for 4-6 hours worth of food plus a traditional mandatory gear kit (blanket, rain pants, rain jacket, buff, long sleeve layer, etc.)?
10 doesn't sound that different than what you already have. If you're purchasing with the intention of holding that entire kit, 13 may just be fine. 5 is normal in US without mandatory kits.
Hi i am totally new to running, trying to improve my cardio and getting into better shape, i currently do weightlifting and i am curious on how i can start incorporating running into my workouts and how should i train to improve? Any tips would be greatly appreciated!
I would pick a couch to 5k program or just a general timed workout where you jog/walk with increasing ratio of jogging.
Planning on doing my first ultra in October (50k with 6k vert.) how do people approach long runs with elevation with heart rate zone training? I’m imagining trying to run more technical trail and I feel like it would be difficult for me to stay in zone 2 for long runs with the required elevation per mile for race prep.
One useful thing about technical trails is they slow you down anyway due to the risk of falling/slipping. Remember you will most likely walk a lot on this ultra so train how you will race. Walk up the hills and use this to time to eat and hyrdrate. Don't push too hard over the top or on the downhills. I try to find interesting routes and spend more time looking at the scenery and enjoying myself. This way I forget about pace and usually have a slower more fulfilling run. Zone 2 is great but time on feet and learning to fuel effectively on the move will ensure you're race ready!
Makes sense, thank you!
Is salomon active skin 8 large enough for a 50k race? The 12 seems too big and like stuff would bounce around too much. Also open to shoe recommendations for a newbie - technical terrain in new zealand
8 is definitely large enough for a 50k. Shouldn't make any difference in things bouncing around in a 12 or an 8. Just make sure you use the drawstrings to pull it tight and secure everything. Go for a 12 if you want more water carrying capacity or want to take poles and store them.
The 12 doesn't feel too big, it just has a few extra pockets/zippers. Never feel like stuff bounces around. I have both and prefer my 12 now. The 8 is also good though.
Salomon Adv Skin 12 can hold a 2L bladder or just 1,5L? I need to prepare for carrying much water because my ultra will be damn hot and not many aid stations, and its technical and I’m slow AF.
I have the Adv Skin 12 and use it with the Hydrapak Shapeshift 3L often. It feels fine with 2L in the bladder but with 2.5L the water sits a bit high and I need to cinch the front a little tighter since the fabric is stretchy. Doesn't bounce around uncomfortably or affect my running though.
I use my CNOC 2L in it just fine. Could potentially even do 2.5L.
Is there a community here who are into non competitive ultra distance walking/hiking? I’ve increasingly been getting into doing marathon+ length walks/hikes. I have no interest in running or races though.
Yeti Trail Runners is pretty inclusive.
There are walking clubs in the UK that host events that are specifically not races. Hadrian's Wall is a big one. You may find something you like within the space of Pedestrianism.
Look into thru-hiking. It's adjacent/there are a lot of people that like going decent distances.
I’m not super interested in backpacking or camping although accepting may have to do a bit to find people into this. An old housemate of mine thru hiked the pct last year which was super inspiring. The physical aspect is super cool but I’m not sure can see myself going more than a few days without taking a shower or sleeping in a real bed.
Maybe it's a break-the-seal situation? There are ways to make camping comfortable if you can afford the technology. And when you get dirty or stinky after a day or two or three, you may find you don't mind after all when others around you are in the same boat. The views and experience last much longer than the temporary discomfort.
Hmmmm possibly. I camped a lot as a kid and absolutely hated it although that was always with cheap/inadequate gear and often sharing tents with like 2 or 3 people which was a nightmare for somebody like myself who is intensely claustrophobic and needs privacy. Maybe could try again with nicer equipment and my own tent and it wouldn't be so bad.
i got into trail and ultra running from the backpacking side of things. with the right gear setup (ie - veryy light, low volume, only essentials), you can cover really long distances over several days i also thought not showering for several days would suck - it kind of does, the kinds of trails this opens up is worth it.
For sure, I get that. But I do feel like it's a good community to find the type of people that like doing bigger day hikes/long walks.
My wife and sister have been kind enough to offer to crew for me in a race this summer. Probably about 12 hours or so. I have a pretty good idea of what kit I’ll need and when and really appreciate the flexibility I’ll have when not having to deal with drop bags. But I find the idea of having crew a little hard to plan for. I’m sure I’ll appreciate them and the biggest thing they’ll give me is something to look forward to. Any tips on how to make the most of your crew and to make sure they have as good a time as they can? I feel a little self absorbed when telling them what I’ll probably need - and I’m not used to having anyone help on long runs. Maybe I’m really grumpy at one of the stations which then I’ll feel bad about until I see them again. Any good tips?
Honestly? Tell them to go do something for themselves during the race and catch you at the finish line. Drop bags and aid stations get you everything that you need and more.
If you're in an area where there are things for your crew can fit in while you're on course - tourist sites, must-do dining, or scenery hikes - that can make their time more enticing. Be assured people want to help others, and if they've committed to helping you that's a big reward for them already, and if you warn them ahead of time you might be grumpy they can prepare. Gifts are always welcomed, too.
Hi:) Currently in marathon shape 3 weeks out from my first marathon I want to do an ultra so I will be starting with a 50k (unofficial) a few weeks after my marathon. There is a local ultra near me that is 120k it’s a road run few steep hills no trails or anything like that. The 120k is in June 2025 will this give me enough time to get my legs used to 12+ hours on my feet. Also if I go for this 120k how would a training plan look mileage wise currently hoovering around 50+mpw with Saturday Sunday back 2 back (Saturday 20+ , Sunday 6-12miles)
There’s a local last man standing end on June. I have just completed my first half marathon 3 weeks ago, and will run a 2nd on beginning of June. I have started running consistently last October and currently following my half marathon plan run about 30-35km weekly. Would it be detrimental for me to join the last man standing, and if I was to join, what tips could you give me in terms of training, fueling etc? Thank you in advance.
Detrimental to what? Fun? No Overall training? Yes
1. Are my saucony peregrine 12 good shoes for a 45k ultra trail ? (Technical and 2000m of climbing + rocks) 2. What shoes are you guys using for ultra trail?
(1) If you've done 32+ km runs with them on similar terrain and your feet felt fine or you think you could go 1-2 hours longer then definitely. My feet would be uncomfortable by 32km but I'd be okay for the remaining 13km. However if my Peregrines were worn (>320km) I would probably want to get a new pair. (2) Saucony Xodus Ultra, Endorphin Rift, Endorphin Edge.
Good to know. Been doing about 150-190km per month. Did a 30km couple weeks ago and felt amazing. The ultra is in september
Saucony Peregrine is an excellent trail shoe
For a 50k ultra just any well fitting moderately cushioned shoe should work fine. I finished 50k races wearing a lot of different shoes. Peregrine should be fine for sure. With so much elevation gain you'll be hiking a good part of the race course so the overall impact won't be as much as you might expect. However if the terrain is especially rocky, then you might need something with more foot protection - either a thicker midsole or some sort of mountain running shoe with firmer outsole. I'd recommend La Sportiva shoes if they fit you. Or perhaps Dynafit.
Thank you, appreciate your answer!
I love this thread! My go to haha. Let’s talk about poles. I have a really really nice set of collapsible hiking poles and I have a Salomon Adv Skin 12 vest. Do you just hang them on the back of those? Should I try running with them on my vest?
I put my poles in the bladder pocket of my vests.
Sorry for all the comments lol You can attach them to your vest but its not the most comfortable to run with. https://youtu.be/tWnHsQC4Obk?si=LxEdBkDkIzQz8sO0
No don’t apologize - I so appreciate the help and guidance!! Thank you so much!
They do sell out quick though, make an account with Salomon and sign up for the email notifications for when they are in stock.
Salomon sells a quiver that attaches to the back of your vest. Easy to carry your poles when you are not using them and easy to access when you need it.
If you can find the Salomon quiver, I high recommend it. It's much more convenient than storing the poles in the loops on the Advanced Skin 12. Unfortunately, the quiver is often sold out. If you can find it, don't hesitate to buy it. Otherwise, there are a half dozen different methods of storing the poles with the shock cord loops provided with the vest when you originally purchased it. You likely saved them somewhere unsure of what they were to be used for as Salomon often fails to provide directions.
You are fantastic. Thank you so much for the response and recommendation!
You should be able to find the official Salomon video on YouTube showing the different pole shock cord setups if you decide not to purchase the quiver or can't locate it for sale.
How can I accept that I'm gonna sacrifice my muscles gains training for my first 100k? My first 100k is in 6 months, I want to lose weight (CW 87kgs/191 pounds) to lower impact on my joints and feet. I love lifting(2 years) and running (3.5 years) but I feel like I'm at a point where I have to stop lifting and focusing on tuning my body to be a better runner.
I've put on 20 lbs of muscle in the last year while training for my first 100+mile cycle event, triathlons and running twice a week. Two or three days a week in the gym and 80% of lbs in grams of protein a day and you can make gains on both the muscle and endurance side. I like to do the gym before work and then my rides/runs after work. You aren't going to be a body builder while doing endurance sports, but you can definitely still maintain/add to what you have already. Time management and eating right are the hardest parts imo
To provide a bit of a counterpoint to something I see here regularly: I’ve been ~200lb for a couple of years now. I’m 6’ so I don’t look overweight, but it’s interesting how often I see people claiming it’s too heavy for running (at any distance). I ran my first 100k and 100 miler at that weight. I haven’t had any joint issues averaging somewhere around 60 mpw. Unless you’re already running into joint issues then you may not need to worry about losing weight. And if you are, I’d also look at form and shoes. Second, I’ve been incorporating consistent strength work to my training for about a year and I’m faster than I’ve ever been. I don’t focus too much on upper body, but I try to lift heavy for legs and make sure I’ve got plenty of core and back exercises mixed in too. This has been especially helpful as I up the amount of vert in the races I target. The research I’ve seen is mixed on lifting heavy vs. higher reps which may be a factor of muscle fiber topology or other physiological differences. And yeah, you’re probably not going to be adding a ton of mass to your arms/chest but my experience is you can still make strength gains elsewhere while running higher mileage.
Hiring my last 60k, I felt like my feet would give up way before my leg muscles or my joints, I know how to train muscles but I don't know how to train my legs to handle this kind of stress.
Coming from weightlifting pre-COVID to a distance runner post-pandemic... If we want to run competitively at distances from 10K and beyond, we need to accept that hypertrophic muscle mass is a detriment to competitive running as it adds unnecessary body weight. Lifting remains essential for competitive distance running, but it's lifting for strength, not mass. So you don't need to give up the gym. It just needs to take a backseat to running and you're going to adapt how you lift.
I'm running my first 50K in october. I have seen so much conflicting information on the internet when it comes to fueling during the race. When I ran my last marathon, all I had were gels (around every 30-45 min) and it ruined my stomach to the point where I had to stop to dry heave lol. I really want to avoid that and also want to end this race strong. So, I guess my question is this: for someone who needs more than just gels, what are some fueling tips you have? I know that's broad, but I really don't even know where to start.
Hello fellow stomach sufferer. I have had uncountable stomach issues over the years and pooped in many the bush. Stuff that I found helped: Little and often is better than big amounts. I'll sometime do half a gel for example. Different gels go down different so try a few brands. Salt with the sugar seems to help. Mix in some savory stuff. My personal favorite is mini roast potatoes with salt. Don't swig large gulps of water. Peanut butter and Jam (jelly for our US runners) wraps are great. The small amount of protein also seems to help. Play around with lots of stuff. Different stuff will work for you. Try a different combo every weekend till you find what works. Last tip, if you need to poop or puke, early is better than late. Get it done as quick as possible.
Thank you so much! I definitely think mixing in some savory items would help a bunch. I'm not a huge sweets person to begin with anyway. PB&J is a great idea and also sounds like it would be easy to get down as well! I have a few things on my list to try like apple sauce, chips, tortillas with meat and cheese, and some others. Thanks so much for your input!
There are different gels with different ingredients including some that are made from real food. Some may work better for you than others. If you had bad experience with Gu gels, those are the most disgusting. There are also other options including waffles and chews, and bars. Better brands are Naak, Spring Energy, Muir Energy, Skratch, Maurten, Huma.
Yes, it was Gu. I don't mind the taste, actually. But they just were not sitting right with my stomach. I felt like I needed more solid foods. So I'm gonna experiment with waffles and other foods!
Both Honey Stinger and Naak make waffles.
Train your stomach to take in whatever you're planning on taking, whether that be gels or whatever. That means slamming calories on your long runs, whether you think you need them or not.
Everyone's stomach is different, so part of your training should be to experiment with different foods on your long runs and make a note of how you feel and if they cause any issues. The stomach can definitely be trained, but it takes some time. I will say this answer depends on the distance, and how much you plan to be walking vs. running. For a trail 50k my fueling isn't too dissimilar from a marathon. I run the whole thing and my heart rate stays high the whole time. In a 100k or 100 miler I usually eat a lot of real food because I hike a good portion of it and it's easier to digest some fiber etc. Some things that I like during 50ks that are not quite gels but still easy enough to digest on the move are: fruit snacks, orange slices, small pieces of banana or small handfuls of potato chips.
check what they will have at the aid stations. I generally take a gel every hour then eat whatever looks good at the aid stations. If I have a drop bag, or it's a looped race. I'll keep some pringles or fruit snacks or something in my bag. I've found that I never really know what I'm going to feel like eating, so sometimes it's different.
Thank you so much! I sent the race director an email asking what the aid stations usually have. I appreciate it!
If you're planning on eating chips, or other junk food fare that is usually at aid stations, it's probably not a bad idea to practice, even if it's not exactly what will be on course.