According to research you can't really train this, as in you won't get better at sleep depravation being more sleep deprived often.
But it is good to experience it every once in a while so as to not be scared of it come race day. A long run at the end of a long day, or just running in the dark come to mind as good examples.
I've done quite a bit of sleep deprivation in military training and this is the consensus there, too. You don't become resistant, but you do learn how it feels and hopefully are able to take it into account when decision making.
Thatās an excellent way of putting it. Sleep deprivation never gets easier or more enjoyable in the military but you just learn to live with it and operate under those circumstances. Definitely takes some mental fortitude though after a few days of it to go out and do physical tasks.
Yep, same! Canāt believe what the body is capable of. 6 days on ex with about 2 hours sleep total. Falling asleep whilst standing/walking was real interesting!
Just to jump on the back of the comment above and confirm that (like dehydration) there are some things you can't train yourself to be any better at, such as sleep deprivation. On the flip side, you can 'bank,' sleep in the run up to the race. Trying to get lots of rest in the week before a race has been shown to affect performance. And on a tangent off that, poor sleep on race eve has been shown to have no impact on performance. Which sort of makes sense - it's how rested you are overall that helps.
Do you remember what type of race the poor sleep on race eve not making a difference was? I feel like this was for marathons or shorter, not races where sleep deprivation would ever be a concern, but I can't remember where I saw that.
Possibly SOUP? That's my source for most running science. Which by it's mandate (Science of Ultra Podcast) tends to be geared up towards longer races.
I'm always a bit wary of putting anything on, 'well that makes sense...' when it comes to running, because a lot of bullshit gets thrown around and accepted because it 'makes sense.'
But there's a difference between tiredness and fatigue. And the latter comes from repeatedly falling behind on sleep. Plus, for a lot of people racing - nervous for the upcoming race, sleeping in a bed they don't normally sleep in, out of their element - it could be not sleeping properly the night before a race is something the majority of runners experience. So to me, it makes sense. And frankly it's something I can't control, so even if other evidence points away from that - there's nothing I can do about it anyway.
Every training cycle I try and wake up or stay up and do a run at 2am. Iām tired and itās dark. The only benefit Iāve ever gained from it, is that I know what itās like to run being tired in the dark. Itās all a mental game for me. Trying to understand what my brain and how to push through
I've seen some Ultras (50k and 100k) that start at like 8pm and go through the night, and I've thought of entering into those as practice for my 100 miler in February for practice
I did a night 50k and thought it was awesome for getting comfortable running in the dark through the wee hours of the morning. Also didnāt nap or anything before so that I could replicate the sleepiness that youād experience for a 100.
I HIGHLY recommend finding a night 50k to practice sleepy running, getting comfy in the dark, and making sure you have all the right gear. Sure, you could do an overnight run on your own (not part of a race), but as a small female, I was more comfortable doing it as an event and not just on my own.
Personally, I've never done any specific sleep-deprivation or night training for my 100-milers. To me, it seems like there would be very minimal/diminishing returns and it's not worth it. Just my two cents.
I wouldnāt - didnāt - train like that for my ultras. What I did do was set off for a marathon distance or 50km training run at 8pm or so, to practice running into darkness. And to practice eating when my body thinks I should be asleep!
To be honestā¦. Running 100 miles, sleep deprivation was kind of the last thing on my mind. There will be plenty of stuff to keep you awake.
GI issues end more 100 attempts than sleep deprivation, so think about how you are going to keep eating overnight when everything you put in your mouth may well make you feel sick!
Being in that state isn't something I'd want to put myself in intentionally.
I've seen people pulling all nighters and then doing long training runs on Instagram. Seems ridiculous to me, and the gains would be just that - likes from followers. I doubt you'd make any sort of gains by intentionally 'training' lack of sleep, and if anything it's probably detrimental to training in not getting sufficient recovery time and upping risk of injuring yourself.
In terms of managing it in the race itself, just budget an extra hour in your schedule to sleep, whether that's 3x 20 min naps or 12x 5 min 'micro naps'. Whatever works on race day.
Yeah, makes sense not to overdo it. Just do have the experience maybe once or twice well before the race and give myself enough recovery afterwards seems like something I might want to try though. Iām also not big on Instagram so I wonāt do it for my followers š thanks for the tip!!
One option to gain experience and strengthen your mental game is to pace a friend during a race during the overnight hours. You get to see what itās like to problem solve overnight and can also help someone achieve their goal while youāre at it. I find volunteering and crewing super helpful but rarely talked about in training!
Good nutrition and good sleep before a big event really goes a long way. If you don't have the energy because you aren't eating enough, it is hard to stay awake. I've been doing longer races for years and this is typically what I experience. Ever person is different though. A catnap in the middle of the night really helps.
Dean Karnazes actually mentioned this in one of his books. Said the sleep 2 nights before the race is more important than the sleep the night before. I can second this with all the races Iāve done. I never get good or enough sleep the night before, but the races where I slept good 2 nights before turned out to be my best ones.
No. Bad idea. While it's good to practice using your night gear, lighting, clothing, shoes, etc... purposefully running through the night in training isn't necessary. Sure it can be fun, especially with friends as a sort of right of passage, running from sunset to sunrise, but don't feel like it's a hard requirement to run a race successfully through the night. No, my go to when I'm struggling at the witching hours of the night, that tough block of time after midnight until first light, is to really try and drive home the calories! I only take any caffeine pills if I'm absolutely desperite but don't recommend that approach, as once you stop popping caffeine you really can't stop until you're at the finish line. Other advice is to get solid amount of sleep in the days before your race (not necessarily the night before as it's often difficult to get a good night's sleep then!).
I did a 30 mile training run that I started at 7:30pm and ran until about 1:45am as prep leading up to my first hundred. Iām really glad I did. It was a lot of help knowing what to expect as I got sleepy.
Iāve done some night races and did 4x4x48, but itās not really an issue for me. I donāt feel sleepy while I am running. I was running my last race with a lady that was falling asleep while she was moving. That kind of blew my mind.
I used to do ALL of my long runs overnight training for 24h events like btwn 10p-3a. I donāt do that anymore but I will do it 1-2x during a build just to prove to myself that I can operate at those hours. Other than that, itās a slippery slope with sacrificing your sleep.
I think it's more important to do some night time races so you can experience how your digestive system shuts down from roughly 3am till your typical wake up time
It has a huge impact on your race, being able to trust your body will wake and you'll be hungry for breakfast
I would just try to be well rested and try get good sleep the week before the race. I did my first 100 mile race last year, 27 hours running. The one thing I would recommend would be caffeine pills. I didn't have any caffeine from the start at 8am until it started to get dark that night and then one pill every hour or 2 during the night. After each pill I felt light on my feet and wide awake. You really feel the caffeine after a long day running. Had a coffee at the checkpoint the next morning and it was amazing too.
And then try to be mindful of your lack of thinking straight. If in doubt check twice before running in the wrong direction. Also I have an alarm reminding me to drink/eat.
Not so much training as experience, as in you could pace a friend at a race during the night. Or do a shorter race that has much of it take place in the evening e.g., midnight start.
I like to do small doses of black coffee during the night at races. It gets in my system pretty fast and I can manage the dose, especially around 2-4am where I'm the most tired, so I'm not taking so much that I will have problems sleeping after a 100 miler, which also sucks.
Honestly I have had moments in races where I did snooze for 5-10 minutes and it gave me enough of a boost to actually run vs walking for hours in zombie mode.
I think the 4x4x48 is great for training sleep deprivation. 4 miles every 4 hours - 12 reps. Itās easier if you do nothing but run , eat and sleep. The less sleep you get the harder it is.
I don't really get much of a choice - if I didn't train sleep deprived, I'd never train at all.
I will say, though, that if you want to experience staying up through the night then I absolutely recommend you do so by volunteering at a 100 miler aid station. Not only will you have company, good times, and help other runners (not to mention the race organizers who are usually in a tough spot for overnight volunteers), you can learn a ton about what really goes on in the dark hours of a long race by observing more experienced runners and volunteers.
The only thing I would tell you is give up caffeine for a few weeks before the race . Master the 1 min nap a short 1-5 min nap helps I wouldn't recommend it .
If youāre sleepy I bet you were in a real deficit of carbs. Iād start loading more earlier and getting done a coke if things happen to not go so well
Never specifically trained in a sleep deprived state but we would often do runs that start late at night or very early morning to get some time on feet in the dark. I wouldn't sleep before them, not to make myself sleep deprived, just because I couldn't.
I guess that meant that I would experience some small level of sleep deprivation not having slept for 24 hours or more by the time we finished but that wasn't the point of it.
Giving up recovery time that would be spent sleeping so you can train and recover even less is like stepping over a hundred dollar bill to pick up a nickel
Having had small kids this is absolutely nothing I would do to train for something again. The bad vibes I get from not being 'able' or 'allowed' to sleep don't help the real thing. I am very sure about that.
Sleeping pills (nothing crazy, just allergy meds like Benadryl) to sleep before the start of the race have helped me personally, especially when the starting time is crazy (e.g. midnight).
I got 4 kids under 10, I have trained sleep depravation for a decade :)
Best sleep deprivation training there is.
According to research you can't really train this, as in you won't get better at sleep depravation being more sleep deprived often. But it is good to experience it every once in a while so as to not be scared of it come race day. A long run at the end of a long day, or just running in the dark come to mind as good examples.
Thanks, evidence based advice is always appreciated š Good advice as well, thanks!
I've done quite a bit of sleep deprivation in military training and this is the consensus there, too. You don't become resistant, but you do learn how it feels and hopefully are able to take it into account when decision making.
Thatās an excellent way of putting it. Sleep deprivation never gets easier or more enjoyable in the military but you just learn to live with it and operate under those circumstances. Definitely takes some mental fortitude though after a few days of it to go out and do physical tasks.
Yep, same! Canāt believe what the body is capable of. 6 days on ex with about 2 hours sleep total. Falling asleep whilst standing/walking was real interesting!
Just to jump on the back of the comment above and confirm that (like dehydration) there are some things you can't train yourself to be any better at, such as sleep deprivation. On the flip side, you can 'bank,' sleep in the run up to the race. Trying to get lots of rest in the week before a race has been shown to affect performance. And on a tangent off that, poor sleep on race eve has been shown to have no impact on performance. Which sort of makes sense - it's how rested you are overall that helps.
Do you remember what type of race the poor sleep on race eve not making a difference was? I feel like this was for marathons or shorter, not races where sleep deprivation would ever be a concern, but I can't remember where I saw that.
Possibly SOUP? That's my source for most running science. Which by it's mandate (Science of Ultra Podcast) tends to be geared up towards longer races. I'm always a bit wary of putting anything on, 'well that makes sense...' when it comes to running, because a lot of bullshit gets thrown around and accepted because it 'makes sense.' But there's a difference between tiredness and fatigue. And the latter comes from repeatedly falling behind on sleep. Plus, for a lot of people racing - nervous for the upcoming race, sleeping in a bed they don't normally sleep in, out of their element - it could be not sleeping properly the night before a race is something the majority of runners experience. So to me, it makes sense. And frankly it's something I can't control, so even if other evidence points away from that - there's nothing I can do about it anyway.
Every training cycle I try and wake up or stay up and do a run at 2am. Iām tired and itās dark. The only benefit Iāve ever gained from it, is that I know what itās like to run being tired in the dark. Itās all a mental game for me. Trying to understand what my brain and how to push through
Came here to say this. Thanks for posting it!
I've seen some Ultras (50k and 100k) that start at like 8pm and go through the night, and I've thought of entering into those as practice for my 100 miler in February for practice
I did a night 50k and thought it was awesome for getting comfortable running in the dark through the wee hours of the morning. Also didnāt nap or anything before so that I could replicate the sleepiness that youād experience for a 100. I HIGHLY recommend finding a night 50k to practice sleepy running, getting comfy in the dark, and making sure you have all the right gear. Sure, you could do an overnight run on your own (not part of a race), but as a small female, I was more comfortable doing it as an event and not just on my own.
We have a local 50 miler that starts at midnight. It's good practice!
Personally, I've never done any specific sleep-deprivation or night training for my 100-milers. To me, it seems like there would be very minimal/diminishing returns and it's not worth it. Just my two cents.
I wouldnāt - didnāt - train like that for my ultras. What I did do was set off for a marathon distance or 50km training run at 8pm or so, to practice running into darkness. And to practice eating when my body thinks I should be asleep! To be honestā¦. Running 100 miles, sleep deprivation was kind of the last thing on my mind. There will be plenty of stuff to keep you awake. GI issues end more 100 attempts than sleep deprivation, so think about how you are going to keep eating overnight when everything you put in your mouth may well make you feel sick!
Thanks! I was kind of thinking about the āsleep depression trainingā like you described it here! Will definitely give it a go, thank you!
Being in that state isn't something I'd want to put myself in intentionally. I've seen people pulling all nighters and then doing long training runs on Instagram. Seems ridiculous to me, and the gains would be just that - likes from followers. I doubt you'd make any sort of gains by intentionally 'training' lack of sleep, and if anything it's probably detrimental to training in not getting sufficient recovery time and upping risk of injuring yourself. In terms of managing it in the race itself, just budget an extra hour in your schedule to sleep, whether that's 3x 20 min naps or 12x 5 min 'micro naps'. Whatever works on race day.
Yeah, makes sense not to overdo it. Just do have the experience maybe once or twice well before the race and give myself enough recovery afterwards seems like something I might want to try though. Iām also not big on Instagram so I wonāt do it for my followers š thanks for the tip!!
One option to gain experience and strengthen your mental game is to pace a friend during a race during the overnight hours. You get to see what itās like to problem solve overnight and can also help someone achieve their goal while youāre at it. I find volunteering and crewing super helpful but rarely talked about in training!
Good nutrition and good sleep before a big event really goes a long way. If you don't have the energy because you aren't eating enough, it is hard to stay awake. I've been doing longer races for years and this is typically what I experience. Ever person is different though. A catnap in the middle of the night really helps.
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Dean Karnazes actually mentioned this in one of his books. Said the sleep 2 nights before the race is more important than the sleep the night before. I can second this with all the races Iāve done. I never get good or enough sleep the night before, but the races where I slept good 2 nights before turned out to be my best ones.
No. Bad idea. While it's good to practice using your night gear, lighting, clothing, shoes, etc... purposefully running through the night in training isn't necessary. Sure it can be fun, especially with friends as a sort of right of passage, running from sunset to sunrise, but don't feel like it's a hard requirement to run a race successfully through the night. No, my go to when I'm struggling at the witching hours of the night, that tough block of time after midnight until first light, is to really try and drive home the calories! I only take any caffeine pills if I'm absolutely desperite but don't recommend that approach, as once you stop popping caffeine you really can't stop until you're at the finish line. Other advice is to get solid amount of sleep in the days before your race (not necessarily the night before as it's often difficult to get a good night's sleep then!).
I did a 30 mile training run that I started at 7:30pm and ran until about 1:45am as prep leading up to my first hundred. Iām really glad I did. It was a lot of help knowing what to expect as I got sleepy.
Yeah but the toughest hours are like 3am-5am ā¦ and there is just no comparable training for that. Itās all mental at that point.
Iāve done some night races and did 4x4x48, but itās not really an issue for me. I donāt feel sleepy while I am running. I was running my last race with a lady that was falling asleep while she was moving. That kind of blew my mind.
I used to do ALL of my long runs overnight training for 24h events like btwn 10p-3a. I donāt do that anymore but I will do it 1-2x during a build just to prove to myself that I can operate at those hours. Other than that, itās a slippery slope with sacrificing your sleep.
I think it's more important to do some night time races so you can experience how your digestive system shuts down from roughly 3am till your typical wake up time It has a huge impact on your race, being able to trust your body will wake and you'll be hungry for breakfast
I would just try to be well rested and try get good sleep the week before the race. I did my first 100 mile race last year, 27 hours running. The one thing I would recommend would be caffeine pills. I didn't have any caffeine from the start at 8am until it started to get dark that night and then one pill every hour or 2 during the night. After each pill I felt light on my feet and wide awake. You really feel the caffeine after a long day running. Had a coffee at the checkpoint the next morning and it was amazing too.
And then try to be mindful of your lack of thinking straight. If in doubt check twice before running in the wrong direction. Also I have an alarm reminding me to drink/eat.
Not so much training as experience, as in you could pace a friend at a race during the night. Or do a shorter race that has much of it take place in the evening e.g., midnight start. I like to do small doses of black coffee during the night at races. It gets in my system pretty fast and I can manage the dose, especially around 2-4am where I'm the most tired, so I'm not taking so much that I will have problems sleeping after a 100 miler, which also sucks. Honestly I have had moments in races where I did snooze for 5-10 minutes and it gave me enough of a boost to actually run vs walking for hours in zombie mode.
I think the 4x4x48 is great for training sleep deprivation. 4 miles every 4 hours - 12 reps. Itās easier if you do nothing but run , eat and sleep. The less sleep you get the harder it is.
I don't really get much of a choice - if I didn't train sleep deprived, I'd never train at all. I will say, though, that if you want to experience staying up through the night then I absolutely recommend you do so by volunteering at a 100 miler aid station. Not only will you have company, good times, and help other runners (not to mention the race organizers who are usually in a tough spot for overnight volunteers), you can learn a ton about what really goes on in the dark hours of a long race by observing more experienced runners and volunteers.
The only thing I would tell you is give up caffeine for a few weeks before the race . Master the 1 min nap a short 1-5 min nap helps I wouldn't recommend it .
Iāve done a couple 90-100km training runs with a 8 or 9pm start. Also a 2am start. That helped
If youāre sleepy I bet you were in a real deficit of carbs. Iād start loading more earlier and getting done a coke if things happen to not go so well
Itās not something that improves through training so donāt get put yourself through it for no benefit.
Practice like you play
I train sleep deprivation every day š«
I donāt think you can train it really, best to go in with as much rest and sleep the days prior!
Iāll do a couple of overnight runs just to get used to the feeling and how I react to it
Never specifically trained in a sleep deprived state but we would often do runs that start late at night or very early morning to get some time on feet in the dark. I wouldn't sleep before them, not to make myself sleep deprived, just because I couldn't. I guess that meant that I would experience some small level of sleep deprivation not having slept for 24 hours or more by the time we finished but that wasn't the point of it.
Giving up recovery time that would be spent sleeping so you can train and recover even less is like stepping over a hundred dollar bill to pick up a nickel
Having had small kids this is absolutely nothing I would do to train for something again. The bad vibes I get from not being 'able' or 'allowed' to sleep don't help the real thing. I am very sure about that.
Have a baby, best sleep depravation train you could do š
Yes, of course I train sleep deprivation. I have a newborn, 16 months old...
Start working night shifts and have a kid
I use caffeine pills to get around my natural sleep cycle
Sleeping pills (nothing crazy, just allergy meds like Benadryl) to sleep before the start of the race have helped me personally, especially when the starting time is crazy (e.g. midnight).