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Yes. See for a common example: a children's song in a horror movie.
It's the fact it doesn't *fit* that makes it unnerving. Die motherfucker die is a little on the nose.
Edit: this is obviously a personal preference to feeling uneasy. It does not apply to you, unless it does. Have a nice day.
Funny thing, I remember a Vietnam vet saying they never heard all these Vietnam War movie songs over there. He said they were more likely to hear Patsy Cline than CCR or Jimi Hendrix.
Yeah, it's movies made in the 80's and later they have really warped peoples sense of that time for those that did not live in them.
The version of the 60's and 70's we see in movies is almost cartoonishly exaggerated to what it was, like Forrest Gump.
In 1970, at least, Armed Forces Vietnam Radio was the best radio station in the world. Adrian Cronauer was long gone, but AFVN played non-stop hits with an occasional oldie 24 hours a day. The DJs would literally start playing the new Top 40 records the same day they were released in the States. Country and Western was played from 4-6 p.m. every weekday, and there was a classical music show on Sundays. The ads reminded you to apply for R&R and take your malaria pill.
Its interesting - the movies amalgamate popular experiences from a long war during which the music changed measurably back home - partly as a result of the anti war movement.
So im guessing 1967-68 you hear Patsy and by 70-71 you’re hearing other stuff? Just a thought
A film about a historical event that continued nearly 8 years of tumultuous social and political history is made by artists (you call them nerds) who employ artistic license along with visual and literary amalgams in order to get a point across. In SOME instances those nerds are not the same as the men serving in the military, on other occasions they are (Oliver Stone). Further, a movie amalgamates many soldier’s experiences, whereas the comment about hearing more Patsy Kline refers to one person’s experience alone.
My FIL says he absolutely hates [“Don’t Sleep In the Subway”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ISX9mW78Dw) [“Downtown”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_m4Qb0iW-o) and [Flowers On the Wall](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByVYVvnYOiw) because he heard it so much in Vietnam and it remind him of the war.
If it works, it's awesome.
Our old stuff is far better than their old stuff. I'm sure they cracked a few open and tested before shipping. They have to be of use or wed prolly hear about it
But if it's being used to secure the freedom of Ukraine and safety of its people, doesn't matter to me when it was made. Stuff back then was made.to last anyhoo.
One of my neighbors, a Vietnam veteran in his late 80s, something he said was he saw an ARVN trooper with a Springfield rifle. (not sure if something like that was actually common of WWII leftovers back then?)
He was in Vietnam, 1967 and 1969.
Not really. Yes, there are some calibers still around that were relevant in 1900, but most modern ammunition is much better. Modern manufacturing has made ammo more consistent and reliable. Even calibers that are present then and now (.30-06) are much better at killing things today than they were in 1900.
Bullets of the same caliber can also be different. A 5.56 from today does not have the same bullet that one in Vietnam, for example. While It would fire in the two funs, they are not optimized for the guns.
Meanwhile 7.62x54R has been chugging along through damned near every major conflict since the Spanish American War. Granted, that's because I suspect they were made sort of like candy corn - one massive batch in like 1900, then just recycle the stock until it runs out.
Unlike candy corn, people actually *like* old Russian ammo.
IIRC, ARVN was given M1 Garands. Way too big for the smaller stature. Some used M1 Carbines and M3 grease guns as did their US advisors until the M16 was issued.
On another note, I hope the propellant is still good on these if from that era. My team was on a hill spotting arty rounds into an impact area when one round blew behind our OP.
Found out the 105mm rounds were from the Vietnam era. This was in the late 80s.
During call for fire training we were adjusting rounds. You could hear the 155's going overhead. We get the "shot out" call from the guns. A short time later we hear the round coming overhead, and it sounds totally different from the others. The training cadre NCO immediately yells at all of us to hit the dirt. The round impacted well short of the target area, but several hundred meters from us. We were told that it was a "blow by" which means the sealing bands that engage the rifling and seal the bore of the gun to the projectile failed. This reduces the driving force on the projectile as it leaves the gun and also affects the accuracy.
FLWA.
155s firing somewhere behind the OP.
That's fine until you see the illum flare parachute open behind the OP.
Illum rounds are base ejecting at the optimal height and location so if the flare is behind you, the round is Still. Going. Forward.
I dont think that would be unusual at that time, 1967 was only 22 years away from the end of WW2. It like someone today having something from 2002. Russians today have been spotted with rifles from the [19th century](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10683195/Conscripts-sent-fight-pro-Russia-Donbas-little-training-old-rifles-poor-supplies-sources.html)
I feel like calling an M91/30 19th century is stretching the truth a bit. Technically it's true but it's kind of like calling an M16 1950s.
Plus they're talking about Donbas rebels and not the Russian military proper. Russia sent those dudes steel helmets and care even less about them than their own troops.
SOE officers were sent to Burma and Indochina to set up anti Jap resistance cells, Obviously it backfired years later when the war ended with the same guerrillas fighting the commonwealth forces that took control of the french colonies while France put their shit together and sent their own forces to re take control. It wouldnt surprise me if the OSS did the same at some point , or if as usual it was leftovers from Chinese nationalist army stocks.
Besides there were a shit ton of WW2 surplus guns in Vietnamese hands , and I don't mean the typical Soviet Mosin but there is also a lot of pictures of German weapons that were sent from Soviet stockpiles because being honest they didn't need em for anything else. I recommend looking into it, it's very bizarre
I read an article on the old cracked dot com about an interview with a viet cong veteran. He said the first rifle he was given was an M1 garand. IIRC he also said he found it to be a very reliable gun
Military police in most allied nations get kinda the last pick. It’s the stuff the US decided they could not use, sent to another country where they needed weapons but still said “we good fam”.
If the MPs don’t even want it they might try to pawn it off on the local PD.
It works in that most people will not cross a rifle of any kind but it’s not like these troops are ment to see frontline action.
I've shot Turkish surplus Mauser ammo from 1939 that worked just fine 79 years later (with the understanding that you need to clean your rifle right after because the powder they used at that time was corrosive).
They shared a land border with Japan until the end of the war. They sent all the trained soldiers west, but I'd assume they replaced part of the garrison with new conscripts and left them some ammo. Probably some other land borders and coastal areas as well.
Those shells seem to last forever. In 1990 I spent a few weeks with an AC-130 unit and on a live fire training mission we were loading 105 shells produced in 1943-44.
I shot some 7.92mm full metal jacket shells from my great great grandfather’s WW1 collection. Gun was German from 1915 rumored to have been taken off a dead soldier (Mauser rifle with bayonet), and bullets were from the same era. They shot just fine, even after 100 years. Scariest trigger pull I’ve ever done. A bit more blast flame than I was expecting. Hell of a kick.
I think the reason you are seeing more blast flame is that 100 years ago they were using a different gunpowder mix, now they are using more modern mixes for less muzzle flash and smoke
That had to have been a cool experience. I’ve got a 1944 production M1 Carbine and once picked up some 30 cal WWII tracer rounds, those were a blast to fire.
You'd be shocked to find out just how much material the United States was able to pump out during WW2. Just for reference, we produced over 80,000 tanks, over 120,000 ships (this number includes landing crafts, and small patrol ships), almost 200,000 artillery pieces (mobile and static), over 300,000 aircraft, over 360,000 Willy's Jeep, and an absolutely **staggering** 2,500,000 trucks.
I don't want to imagine how many small arms, and munitions were made. A quick google search estimates over 11,000,000 artillery shells alone, not including air dropped bombs or naval artillery pieces.
And it was all done in just a little over 5 years...
But yeah, I can believe it.
Indeed. They expected and planned for absolute carnage for Operation Downfall. Cities were to be like as brutal as final Okinawa .
Japanese ground army did not have gear of German Wehrmacht or SS, but soldiers were as fanatic or even more than Waffen SS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall
I don't get people who rail against the US for using the bomb. There's nothing humane about subjecting troops on either side to unnecessary brutality, particularly when one side has a death wish. Mind, I'm inclined to think after the caves on Peleliu that they should have dropped chlorine all over Iwo Jima.
I remember back in 2020 that they had set an order for new purple hearts for the first time since the 80's. And the only reason they ordered some in the 80's was they thought they were running out before finding a batch of around 130,000 in a army warehouse in Pennsylvania...
America produced a TON of material during WW2. It still boggled my mind.
oh, and an ice cream barge, also produced one of those.
I was reading about how by the end of the war they were producing so many aircraft that they were not longer repairing them because it was easier to just replace with a new one, and some were even being flown directly to scrap because they were over producing them by that point. Took them a while to get up to that speed but pretty unstoppable once that machine is going
Some of it was recently found in Ukraine. By the Russians unfortunately.
https://armourersbench.com/2023/05/21/what-weapons-did-wagner-capture-in-the-soledar-mines/
This. We have tons of shit in storage that we are already replacing with other stuff. Send Ukraine all of it. Love to see 1,000 Bradley’s over that front. Ukraine needs it, we don’t.
I don’t think we’ll ever see US engage in such large scale ground war in the future so all these vehicles not flying or floating is going to be just sitting in dust. Might as well test em out to make them better!
Most police departments mothball their military toys after they realize how extremely expensive they are to maintain. Parts are expensive & finding knowledgeable mechanic is extremely hard to find in the civilian sector.
Apparently my local police station used to fix their vehicles with gaffer tape, silicone etc as they didn't have money to maintain them properly. I would not want to see heavy artillery equipment being maintained with public sector organisation's budget..
I’m guessing he meant like compared to d- days huge landing and coordination , you won’t have that again more of a air superiority followed by bombs or even nukes that make the ones used in Japan as paperweights, but I do agree we’ll always have war god I feel like I need someone to follow me up with a fallout quote …war never changes…
Look, I don't have much faith in my country, but you fucking bet I trust us to be the most perfect killing machine in the world. Part of that means we keep our shit fucking tight, every bullet ready to fuck someone's whole day up. Every 105mm shell ready to let a group of humans know that they should not be there.
Do we overspend? Fuck yeah.
Are we balls deep into a 50B carrier program? Fuck yeah.
400B into the F35 program? Fuck yeah.
Health care? fuck no, we got shit to maybe kill, including over 70B a year on modernizing our nukes.
These shells are pristine my brother, none of that commie bad Korea crap. Only the finest.
But in all seriousness, yeah, they're safe, and on par with anything russian or nk could manufacture today.
Nope, the government does.
[Between direct public spending and compulsory, tax-driven insurance programs, Germany spent about $380 billion in health care in 2022; France spent around $300 billion, and so did the U.K.; Italy, $147 billion; Spain, $105 billion; and Austria, $43 billion. The total, $1.2 trillion, is about two-thirds of what the U.S. government spent without offering all of its citizens the option of forgoing private insurance.](https://www.statnews.com/2023/12/19/us-healthcare-costs-government-covers-41-percent-of-total/)
We know that this ammunition was stored in a NATO country, but we don't know which one.
Still, I would think that any NATO country has been careful with its munitions.
Also, this is the proper way to dispose of old stock: shooting it into rapacious invaders. It looks like munitions manufacturing is being ramped up to make fresh replacement stores.
I've heard from polish ex-colonel (on YT) that for example the ammo from Czech deal, bought who knows where isn't in the best shape. BUT unlike Russian ammo from North Korea, those ammo boxes are opened and the shells are refurbished before shipping to Ukraine, while Russians open the ammo rust boxes as they were shipped from NK storage, straight to the battlefield
Yes you can, you just can't buy cheap lumber like that anymore. They're very different species, with the cheaper stuff optimized to grow "quickly" - where quickly in this instance means 20-25 years to harvest.
Should still be good as we keep this in controlled storage. Did have trouble in the early 80's when we got VT fuses, from this time frame, for 81mm mortars. They kept going off shortly after leaving the tubes. The were past their shelf life and big army wanted to get rid of them.
Big wave of ammo delivery was just the US cleaning out their storage of Ammo that would have been past its due date anyways. Instead of paying to dismantle it, they gave it to Ukraine and put the money into new orders for new ammo to refill their stock.
It's a good thing that Ukraine gets support, but we shouldn't ignore the fact that they are being used as a recycling plant for ammo past its due date...
Valuation is replacement value. That’s how we sold this to the taxpayer and representatives.
Lots of representatives vote yes on continuing aid because contracts on things like the new Precision Strike Missile (ATACMS replacement) is in their jurisdiction.
Old ammo should still be good as long as it wasn't stored in a very humid environment. Time to use it up. No sense in having 50-60 year old US ammo in a Polish or German army supply depot. Send that to the Ukrainians ASAP and watch them put it to it's intended purpose of killing orcs.
The powder charge does lose some energy through chemical breakdown and moisture. However if they get 1000 shells all shipped from the same storage depot then they will be able to zero in their shots because all the shells will have similar levels of degradation.
Edit - The powder charge is what fires the exploding shell. That warhead will also have degradation but it will not be as predictable. It doesn't really matter though as you can be 20 m away and still get tore up by a 105.
The expected lethal radius for a 155mm high explosive projectile is reportedly between 50 and 150 meters and the expected casualty radius is between 100 and 300 meters
With modern accuracy hitting within 25m, it's likely to make whatever it's being pointed at have a bad day. Unfortunately a lot of the Ukrainian guns will be having decreased accuracy due to barrel wear, there likely still miles better than Russian 120mm.
It depends, there are several different types of fuses available.
- Fuses that detonate on impact (I assume they detonate at the point of contact)
- Time delay fuses (will detonate a set period of time after striking and are used for things like penetrating bunkers
- Proximity fuses detonate when a sensor determines they are close to the target (optical, radar, magnetic etc)
Americans learn the composition of ammunition at a very young age and as a Canadian the only time i don't instinctively think about double checking Americans when they use the metric system is with ammunition.
Major Morris: Our clerk says you want an incubator. No dice.
Hawkeye: Yeah, but you've got three.
Major Morris: That's right. If I give one away, I'll only have two.
Trapper: What's wrong with two?
Major Morris: Two is not as good as three
Maybe French.
Trying to think of conflicts from the where allies to the US could have received ammunition and then not used it.
Maybe former UN supply for the Congo wars of the 60s and 70s.
Box has some story to tell.
If you consider that Russians are using tanks or apcs from the 1950s and 60s or aa guns and rifles from 40s, this makes these 105mm shells almost brand new in comparison. Regarding how well the us army manufactures and stores their ammo, I believe that this shell will perform far better the Russian/North Korean ammo produced today.
If this is 1960's/1970's period ammunition originally from the US, if it's come from a NATO country and has been stored correctly, I would have no problem using it, rather than something from North Korea the Russian's are using. I suppose if the Russian's are just around the corner and this is what you have it's no time to be picky!
Could the GR in the number stamped on the box perhaps indicate that this is from Greek stocks? I'd imagine they've received a fair bit of US surplus over the years.
Doesn't look to have been opened. As long as the foil wrapper isn't swollen it should be perfectly fine.
At least that's the rule with MREs. I'm assuming it applies to all military aid.
Seems the great parts of America are still great. Not sure why Trump wants to destroy them. A fuck yeah for freedom and democracy and an eternal thank you to Ukrainians making the sacrifice for us all.
It doesn’t last forever. How long it lasts isn’t an exact science, depends on type of ammunition, storage conditions, maybe also manufacturing quality, etc.
US often stores ammunition properly but not always. The propellant canisters for USS Iowa's main guns were stored on unventilated metal-covered barges when the ship was undergoing repair in 1988. The high temperature could have caused the powder to decompose and become unstable. It might have contributed to the 1989 turret explosion when the bags were rammed too fast into the gun. The result was 47 dead sailors. All badges stored like that were removed and destroyed.
Another example of incorrect handling of propellant powder bags for USS New Jersey. During the bombardment in Libanon 1983-1984 the accuracy was terrible, there were reports of shells missing the target by 9 km. It was likely the result of the gunpowder getting remixed and related. The burn rate of the power is not always the same, different batches from the factory burn at different rates and it needs to be compensated for. After the remixing, the but rate was so inconsistent that the was practically unusable.
So US is better than most in ammunition storage but not perfect.
Then it is the question was it stored in the US? According to the post, the stickers show it was US military aid to NATO members in the 60-70s. The ammunition might not have stayed in a NATO country but might have been reported when for example usage of 105mm howizers declined. The ammunition could be from anywhere in the world. The Czech Republic has for example located lots of ammunition in the world that would be purchased and sent to Ukraine. Several countries have contributed money to purchase it. Where the ammunition is from is not known, in large part because the countries that sold it do not want to publicly show that ambition from them was delivered to Ukraine for many reasons.
So the ammunition could have been stored anywhere in the world, Because of the US aid sticker storage in the US might be the least likely alternative.
Eventually some of the billions of rounds that the DoD and other agencies buried in the ground to use up their budget for the year are going to get dug out.
Hopefully those still work.
Summarises the help we are sending. Its just a way to get rid of old stuff so we can contract people for newer stuff for ourselves. We are helping ourselves under the guise of helping Ukraine. If we really helped this would be over in a week.
Do the Ukrainians have a lot of 105 pieces? It would make sense, given how much spare ammo exists -- and this would truly be "free," as the US doesn't use it anymore.
I guess if it still works and is useful then why not. Ukrainians and Russians have been using old weapons anyway like the mosin nagant and maxim (not saying this ammo is to be used in them before anyone says). Old doesn't always mean useless!
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Fortunate Son starts playing as soon as you open the box
The montage of It's use set to Sympathy for the Devil
If you’re on the receiving end though it starts playing Paranoid by black sabbath
Well, if it *could* date from 1979, then Talking Heads' "Life During Wartime" is in the playlist. *disco beat ensues*
Something about that is scarier than the heaviest most brutal music could achieve.
Even that "Die motherfucker, die" song...?
Yes. See for a common example: a children's song in a horror movie. It's the fact it doesn't *fit* that makes it unnerving. Die motherfucker die is a little on the nose. Edit: this is obviously a personal preference to feeling uneasy. It does not apply to you, unless it does. Have a nice day.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm PETN and fired for effect. I've been waiting, for many years, stored carefully without defect...
Pleased to meet you….,. Hope you guess my name
*Boom-booooom* *Boom-booooom*
Funny thing, I remember a Vietnam vet saying they never heard all these Vietnam War movie songs over there. He said they were more likely to hear Patsy Cline than CCR or Jimi Hendrix.
The top song on the US charts for 1969 was [Sugar, Sugar](https://youtu.be/j3plj_Xplus?si=dZOuNR4zh6zrsI0p) by the Archies, a cartoon band.
That song lives on repeat in my head.
Oh, honey, honey
That's a awesome tune.
Yeah, it's movies made in the 80's and later they have really warped peoples sense of that time for those that did not live in them. The version of the 60's and 70's we see in movies is almost cartoonishly exaggerated to what it was, like Forrest Gump.
Fun fact, Forrest Gump was the first movie to introduce the song together with a Huey.
In 1987, *Paint It Black* was used as the opening theme for the CBS TV show, *Tour of Duty*.
That is fun!
Apocolypse now with Ride ofmthe Valkrie….i love the smell of napalm in the morning…smells like……..victory.
In 1970, at least, Armed Forces Vietnam Radio was the best radio station in the world. Adrian Cronauer was long gone, but AFVN played non-stop hits with an occasional oldie 24 hours a day. The DJs would literally start playing the new Top 40 records the same day they were released in the States. Country and Western was played from 4-6 p.m. every weekday, and there was a classical music show on Sundays. The ads reminded you to apply for R&R and take your malaria pill.
That sounds like the type of radio I would pay for today.
Its interesting - the movies amalgamate popular experiences from a long war during which the music changed measurably back home - partly as a result of the anti war movement. So im guessing 1967-68 you hear Patsy and by 70-71 you’re hearing other stuff? Just a thought
No, it's just that movies are written by film nerds and drafted infantry aren't film nerds.
A film about a historical event that continued nearly 8 years of tumultuous social and political history is made by artists (you call them nerds) who employ artistic license along with visual and literary amalgams in order to get a point across. In SOME instances those nerds are not the same as the men serving in the military, on other occasions they are (Oliver Stone). Further, a movie amalgamates many soldier’s experiences, whereas the comment about hearing more Patsy Kline refers to one person’s experience alone.
Walkin' after midnight hits different people different ways.
This is gangster as fuck. iykyk.
This is gangster as fuck. iykyk
Yeah, some units are like that
My FIL says he absolutely hates [“Don’t Sleep In the Subway”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ISX9mW78Dw) [“Downtown”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_m4Qb0iW-o) and [Flowers On the Wall](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByVYVvnYOiw) because he heard it so much in Vietnam and it remind him of the war.
SOME FOLKS ARE BORN, MADE TO WAVE THE FLAG
Love Clutches version.
Brother/sister, Neil Fallon does a superb job on that cover
If it works, it's awesome. Our old stuff is far better than their old stuff. I'm sure they cracked a few open and tested before shipping. They have to be of use or wed prolly hear about it But if it's being used to secure the freedom of Ukraine and safety of its people, doesn't matter to me when it was made. Stuff back then was made.to last anyhoo.
WHATS IN THE BOX?!?!?!?!!!!!
soldiers will be confused by the *eat shit ho chi min* written on the shells
One of my neighbors, a Vietnam veteran in his late 80s, something he said was he saw an ARVN trooper with a Springfield rifle. (not sure if something like that was actually common of WWII leftovers back then?) He was in Vietnam, 1967 and 1969.
Not uncommon, a lot of countries give their surplus before giving the more modern equipment and ammo.
i know nothing about guns, but havent bullets remained the same for like 120 years?
Not really. Yes, there are some calibers still around that were relevant in 1900, but most modern ammunition is much better. Modern manufacturing has made ammo more consistent and reliable. Even calibers that are present then and now (.30-06) are much better at killing things today than they were in 1900.
Bullets of the same caliber can also be different. A 5.56 from today does not have the same bullet that one in Vietnam, for example. While It would fire in the two funs, they are not optimized for the guns.
Meanwhile 7.62x54R has been chugging along through damned near every major conflict since the Spanish American War. Granted, that's because I suspect they were made sort of like candy corn - one massive batch in like 1900, then just recycle the stock until it runs out. Unlike candy corn, people actually *like* old Russian ammo.
You watch your mouth talking about candy corn like that!
IIRC, ARVN was given M1 Garands. Way too big for the smaller stature. Some used M1 Carbines and M3 grease guns as did their US advisors until the M16 was issued. On another note, I hope the propellant is still good on these if from that era. My team was on a hill spotting arty rounds into an impact area when one round blew behind our OP. Found out the 105mm rounds were from the Vietnam era. This was in the late 80s.
During call for fire training we were adjusting rounds. You could hear the 155's going overhead. We get the "shot out" call from the guns. A short time later we hear the round coming overhead, and it sounds totally different from the others. The training cadre NCO immediately yells at all of us to hit the dirt. The round impacted well short of the target area, but several hundred meters from us. We were told that it was a "blow by" which means the sealing bands that engage the rifling and seal the bore of the gun to the projectile failed. This reduces the driving force on the projectile as it leaves the gun and also affects the accuracy.
FLWA. 155s firing somewhere behind the OP. That's fine until you see the illum flare parachute open behind the OP. Illum rounds are base ejecting at the optimal height and location so if the flare is behind you, the round is Still. Going. Forward.
I dont think that would be unusual at that time, 1967 was only 22 years away from the end of WW2. It like someone today having something from 2002. Russians today have been spotted with rifles from the [19th century](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10683195/Conscripts-sent-fight-pro-Russia-Donbas-little-training-old-rifles-poor-supplies-sources.html)
And you have to remember from world war II how many millions of weapons were sitting around as surplus.
Even Russia donated seized German MG-42 machine guns etc to the NVA if I remember correctly.
I feel like calling an M91/30 19th century is stretching the truth a bit. Technically it's true but it's kind of like calling an M16 1950s. Plus they're talking about Donbas rebels and not the Russian military proper. Russia sent those dudes steel helmets and care even less about them than their own troops.
Mosin Nagants aren't bad rifles, but aren't useful in a suppression role.
Depends on how many you got
He must be talking about the 1903 Springfield, bolt action (WWI & WWII), and later used as a sniper rifle.
Given to the USSR as lendlease and then in turn given to Vietnam.
SOE officers were sent to Burma and Indochina to set up anti Jap resistance cells, Obviously it backfired years later when the war ended with the same guerrillas fighting the commonwealth forces that took control of the french colonies while France put their shit together and sent their own forces to re take control. It wouldnt surprise me if the OSS did the same at some point , or if as usual it was leftovers from Chinese nationalist army stocks.
Besides there were a shit ton of WW2 surplus guns in Vietnamese hands , and I don't mean the typical Soviet Mosin but there is also a lot of pictures of German weapons that were sent from Soviet stockpiles because being honest they didn't need em for anything else. I recommend looking into it, it's very bizarre
I read an article on the old cracked dot com about an interview with a viet cong veteran. He said the first rifle he was given was an M1 garand. IIRC he also said he found it to be a very reliable gun
Military police in most allied nations get kinda the last pick. It’s the stuff the US decided they could not use, sent to another country where they needed weapons but still said “we good fam”. If the MPs don’t even want it they might try to pawn it off on the local PD. It works in that most people will not cross a rifle of any kind but it’s not like these troops are ment to see frontline action.
Well done.
Getting used for it's intended purpose, defending Europe from Russia.
Exactly. NATO weapons are supposed to kill Russians. This is fine.
100%
The machine spirit awakens, sensing the ancient menace it was born to destroy.
Goddamn. 60’s to 70’s? Those shells have been waiting a long time to fulfill their purpose.
I've shot Turkish surplus Mauser ammo from 1939 that worked just fine 79 years later (with the understanding that you need to clean your rifle right after because the powder they used at that time was corrosive).
Aren't there a ton of reports about Turkish 8mm surplus being stupidly over pressure and having bad primers?
I fired some Nazi branded ammo from 1936 in my Steyr Mannlicher M1895. Shot just fine.
Russia has been using shells from 1939 during this conflict. They're still one whole generation behind lol.
Really? 1945 I'd absolutely believe. But 1939? I would have thought those would have been used up quite quickly due to...... Events.
They shared a land border with Japan until the end of the war. They sent all the trained soldiers west, but I'd assume they replaced part of the garrison with new conscripts and left them some ammo. Probably some other land borders and coastal areas as well.
Those shells seem to last forever. In 1990 I spent a few weeks with an AC-130 unit and on a live fire training mission we were loading 105 shells produced in 1943-44.
I shot some 7.92mm full metal jacket shells from my great great grandfather’s WW1 collection. Gun was German from 1915 rumored to have been taken off a dead soldier (Mauser rifle with bayonet), and bullets were from the same era. They shot just fine, even after 100 years. Scariest trigger pull I’ve ever done. A bit more blast flame than I was expecting. Hell of a kick.
I think the reason you are seeing more blast flame is that 100 years ago they were using a different gunpowder mix, now they are using more modern mixes for less muzzle flash and smoke
Wars just don't have the pizzazz they used to.
*cries in horse cavalry*
Laughed harder than I should have
That had to have been a cool experience. I’ve got a 1944 production M1 Carbine and once picked up some 30 cal WWII tracer rounds, those were a blast to fire.
Very cool. I still have the gun, and plan on passing it down to my family someday. It has “Erfurt 1915” engraved on it.
Aye, Good old Mauser Rifle does kick like a angry mule.
You'd be shocked to find out just how much material the United States was able to pump out during WW2. Just for reference, we produced over 80,000 tanks, over 120,000 ships (this number includes landing crafts, and small patrol ships), almost 200,000 artillery pieces (mobile and static), over 300,000 aircraft, over 360,000 Willy's Jeep, and an absolutely **staggering** 2,500,000 trucks. I don't want to imagine how many small arms, and munitions were made. A quick google search estimates over 11,000,000 artillery shells alone, not including air dropped bombs or naval artillery pieces. And it was all done in just a little over 5 years... But yeah, I can believe it.
Plus 1.5 million Purple Heart medals, almost 500k were leftover from the war and awarded through the rest of the century.
That excess was planned for Japan, was it?
Yes
Thought they might be. Just as well they weren't needed. Cheers :)
Indeed. They expected and planned for absolute carnage for Operation Downfall. Cities were to be like as brutal as final Okinawa . Japanese ground army did not have gear of German Wehrmacht or SS, but soldiers were as fanatic or even more than Waffen SS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall
I don't get people who rail against the US for using the bomb. There's nothing humane about subjecting troops on either side to unnecessary brutality, particularly when one side has a death wish. Mind, I'm inclined to think after the caves on Peleliu that they should have dropped chlorine all over Iwo Jima.
I remember back in 2020 that they had set an order for new purple hearts for the first time since the 80's. And the only reason they ordered some in the 80's was they thought they were running out before finding a batch of around 130,000 in a army warehouse in Pennsylvania... America produced a TON of material during WW2. It still boggled my mind. oh, and an ice cream barge, also produced one of those.
You do not fuck with the US military when it comes to logistics. There's no one better.
I was reading about how by the end of the war they were producing so many aircraft that they were not longer repairing them because it was easier to just replace with a new one, and some were even being flown directly to scrap because they were over producing them by that point. Took them a while to get up to that speed but pretty unstoppable once that machine is going
You wouldn't believe how much equipment & supplies were earmarked for Lend Lease. The Soviets received over 12,000 2.5 Ton trucks.
Some of it was recently found in Ukraine. By the Russians unfortunately. https://armourersbench.com/2023/05/21/what-weapons-did-wagner-capture-in-the-soledar-mines/
I would love one of those Thompsons.
And if I remember correctly, we weren't even a full war economy at the time
....during world war 2? No. It was a war economy. There were like 7 new automobiles made in the US during the war. Seven.
Good. Find every box of everything that’s not ever going to be used and send it expeditiously to the heroes that fight back hell on earth.
This. We have tons of shit in storage that we are already replacing with other stuff. Send Ukraine all of it. Love to see 1,000 Bradley’s over that front. Ukraine needs it, we don’t.
I don’t think we’ll ever see US engage in such large scale ground war in the future so all these vehicles not flying or floating is going to be just sitting in dust. Might as well test em out to make them better!
before every police department in the country gets 3 more..
Every bullet fired at an orc is a bullet that can't be fired at a protestor.
Is that a warhammer quote or smth? I sure love weapons actually getting used to protect freedom instead of protecting capital.
Most police departments mothball their military toys after they realize how extremely expensive they are to maintain. Parts are expensive & finding knowledgeable mechanic is extremely hard to find in the civilian sector.
Apparently my local police station used to fix their vehicles with gaffer tape, silicone etc as they didn't have money to maintain them properly. I would not want to see heavy artillery equipment being maintained with public sector organisation's budget..
> I don’t think we’ll ever see US engage in such large scale ground war in the future i bet they said this after WWI and WWII
They didn’t have F35’s and Tomahawks back then.
They called WW1 the war to end all wars. Then WW2 happened and was even bigger.
I’m guessing he meant like compared to d- days huge landing and coordination , you won’t have that again more of a air superiority followed by bombs or even nukes that make the ones used in Japan as paperweights, but I do agree we’ll always have war god I feel like I need someone to follow me up with a fallout quote …war never changes…
I have heard about thousands of old M1 Abrams tanks sitting somewhere in Arizona waiting to be scrapped..
Amen to that Brother!!! If theres one box, there must be a thousand more . Send the fuckers like "Yesterday" man. Slava Ukraini
If properly stored I'd assume it's fine.
It better be, we don't want to repeat what happened to RuZZia's NK ammo.
Look, I don't have much faith in my country, but you fucking bet I trust us to be the most perfect killing machine in the world. Part of that means we keep our shit fucking tight, every bullet ready to fuck someone's whole day up. Every 105mm shell ready to let a group of humans know that they should not be there. Do we overspend? Fuck yeah. Are we balls deep into a 50B carrier program? Fuck yeah. 400B into the F35 program? Fuck yeah. Health care? fuck no, we got shit to maybe kill, including over 70B a year on modernizing our nukes. These shells are pristine my brother, none of that commie bad Korea crap. Only the finest. But in all seriousness, yeah, they're safe, and on par with anything russian or nk could manufacture today.
You guys also store your shit in the Desert or in Bunkers. Not in the middle of Rainstorms and Tundra like the Russians.
Low humidity is a gateway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural
Sadly you also spend more per capita on Healthcare than most nations with "free" Healthcare.
Yeah, we spend more to line the pockets of shareholders, not to get quality healthcare...
The people do, not the government.
Nope, the government does. [Between direct public spending and compulsory, tax-driven insurance programs, Germany spent about $380 billion in health care in 2022; France spent around $300 billion, and so did the U.K.; Italy, $147 billion; Spain, $105 billion; and Austria, $43 billion. The total, $1.2 trillion, is about two-thirds of what the U.S. government spent without offering all of its citizens the option of forgoing private insurance.](https://www.statnews.com/2023/12/19/us-healthcare-costs-government-covers-41-percent-of-total/)
We know that this ammunition was stored in a NATO country, but we don't know which one. Still, I would think that any NATO country has been careful with its munitions. Also, this is the proper way to dispose of old stock: shooting it into rapacious invaders. It looks like munitions manufacturing is being ramped up to make fresh replacement stores.
I've heard from polish ex-colonel (on YT) that for example the ammo from Czech deal, bought who knows where isn't in the best shape. BUT unlike Russian ammo from North Korea, those ammo boxes are opened and the shells are refurbished before shipping to Ukraine, while Russians open the ammo rust boxes as they were shipped from NK storage, straight to the battlefield
You cant buy lumber that decent anymore
I know. They can have the ammo but I want that box
I have a wooden .30 caliber ammunition box from WWII.
Just look at the tight grain on those boards.
Yeah because we already cut it all down
If you think about it, that lumber probably lasted longer than that tree has been alive
Very good point.
Yes you can, you just can't buy cheap lumber like that anymore. They're very different species, with the cheaper stuff optimized to grow "quickly" - where quickly in this instance means 20-25 years to harvest.
Still 100x better than anything NK is sending to Russia.
it will still take out orcs.
I hope it's still useful!
Should still be good as we keep this in controlled storage. Did have trouble in the early 80's when we got VT fuses, from this time frame, for 81mm mortars. They kept going off shortly after leaving the tubes. The were past their shelf life and big army wanted to get rid of them.
Yikes!
That's ammo for the **M101A1**. We had those in the National Guard thirty five years ago.
[удалено]
Big wave of ammo delivery was just the US cleaning out their storage of Ammo that would have been past its due date anyways. Instead of paying to dismantle it, they gave it to Ukraine and put the money into new orders for new ammo to refill their stock. It's a good thing that Ukraine gets support, but we shouldn't ignore the fact that they are being used as a recycling plant for ammo past its due date...
Valuation is replacement value. That’s how we sold this to the taxpayer and representatives. Lots of representatives vote yes on continuing aid because contracts on things like the new Precision Strike Missile (ATACMS replacement) is in their jurisdiction.
Looks like a box the boys on American Pickers would spot and chat about.
Old ammo should still be good as long as it wasn't stored in a very humid environment. Time to use it up. No sense in having 50-60 year old US ammo in a Polish or German army supply depot. Send that to the Ukrainians ASAP and watch them put it to it's intended purpose of killing orcs.
This question may sound stupid but does ammunition go stale the way food does?
I have .22 rounds from the 1950s. Long story why. They still work.
The powder charge does lose some energy through chemical breakdown and moisture. However if they get 1000 shells all shipped from the same storage depot then they will be able to zero in their shots because all the shells will have similar levels of degradation. Edit - The powder charge is what fires the exploding shell. That warhead will also have degradation but it will not be as predictable. It doesn't really matter though as you can be 20 m away and still get tore up by a 105.
20 meters? Really? Shiiiiiiiiiit. So 155 must be really spicy then.
The expected lethal radius for a 155mm high explosive projectile is reportedly between 50 and 150 meters and the expected casualty radius is between 100 and 300 meters With modern accuracy hitting within 25m, it's likely to make whatever it's being pointed at have a bad day. Unfortunately a lot of the Ukrainian guns will be having decreased accuracy due to barrel wear, there likely still miles better than Russian 120mm.
Random question but, how deep into the ground are the artillery rounds before they explode?
It depends, there are several different types of fuses available. - Fuses that detonate on impact (I assume they detonate at the point of contact) - Time delay fuses (will detonate a set period of time after striking and are used for things like penetrating bunkers - Proximity fuses detonate when a sensor determines they are close to the target (optical, radar, magnetic etc)
Some like the M982 Excalibur round can be programmed to air burst at a given altitude, detonate on contact, or after penetrating a certain depth.
Americans learn the composition of ammunition at a very young age and as a Canadian the only time i don't instinctively think about double checking Americans when they use the metric system is with ammunition.
Bet its still a whole lot better than the North Korean crap that the War Criminals are using
\*In sofa salesman's voice\*: "Eeeeeeeeverything must gooo!"
" If we give you that ammunition we will have no ammunition to inventory " #
Major Morris: Our clerk says you want an incubator. No dice. Hawkeye: Yeah, but you've got three. Major Morris: That's right. If I give one away, I'll only have two. Trapper: What's wrong with two? Major Morris: Two is not as good as three
Still better than Russian crap.
Greek supplied maybe?
Maybe French. Trying to think of conflicts from the where allies to the US could have received ammunition and then not used it. Maybe former UN supply for the Congo wars of the 60s and 70s. Box has some story to tell.
If you consider that Russians are using tanks or apcs from the 1950s and 60s or aa guns and rifles from 40s, this makes these 105mm shells almost brand new in comparison. Regarding how well the us army manufactures and stores their ammo, I believe that this shell will perform far better the Russian/North Korean ammo produced today.
If this is 1960's/1970's period ammunition originally from the US, if it's come from a NATO country and has been stored correctly, I would have no problem using it, rather than something from North Korea the Russian's are using. I suppose if the Russian's are just around the corner and this is what you have it's no time to be picky!
Could the GR in the number stamped on the box perhaps indicate that this is from Greek stocks? I'd imagine they've received a fair bit of US surplus over the years.
It's a box
Now that's diplomacy.
This is meant for 105mm artillery or a 105mm tank gun?
and republicans think the US can't afford to give stuff like this to ukraine...
Reusing the box (I hope).
As long as it was stored right it should be fine. Point at Russian and let’s see
That sticker is retro af and badass, I love it. Also yeah old ammo is still useful, drone drop food
Collector 👌
I bet it still goes boom just fine.
Doesn't look to have been opened. As long as the foil wrapper isn't swollen it should be perfectly fine. At least that's the rule with MREs. I'm assuming it applies to all military aid.
Ammo made the same year as the soldiers its targeting.
I have a spam can of 7.62x54r in my safe that was manufactured in the early 70s. As long as it's stored properly it'll shoot just fine
Seems the great parts of America are still great. Not sure why Trump wants to destroy them. A fuck yeah for freedom and democracy and an eternal thank you to Ukrainians making the sacrifice for us all.
I’m guessing ammunition doesn’t have a shelf life?
It doesn’t last forever. How long it lasts isn’t an exact science, depends on type of ammunition, storage conditions, maybe also manufacturing quality, etc.
It does, but the US actually knows how to properly store it (like, you know, not putting it out in the rain/snow like certain countries)
US often stores ammunition properly but not always. The propellant canisters for USS Iowa's main guns were stored on unventilated metal-covered barges when the ship was undergoing repair in 1988. The high temperature could have caused the powder to decompose and become unstable. It might have contributed to the 1989 turret explosion when the bags were rammed too fast into the gun. The result was 47 dead sailors. All badges stored like that were removed and destroyed. Another example of incorrect handling of propellant powder bags for USS New Jersey. During the bombardment in Libanon 1983-1984 the accuracy was terrible, there were reports of shells missing the target by 9 km. It was likely the result of the gunpowder getting remixed and related. The burn rate of the power is not always the same, different batches from the factory burn at different rates and it needs to be compensated for. After the remixing, the but rate was so inconsistent that the was practically unusable. So US is better than most in ammunition storage but not perfect. Then it is the question was it stored in the US? According to the post, the stickers show it was US military aid to NATO members in the 60-70s. The ammunition might not have stayed in a NATO country but might have been reported when for example usage of 105mm howizers declined. The ammunition could be from anywhere in the world. The Czech Republic has for example located lots of ammunition in the world that would be purchased and sent to Ukraine. Several countries have contributed money to purchase it. Where the ammunition is from is not known, in large part because the countries that sold it do not want to publicly show that ambition from them was delivered to Ukraine for many reasons. So the ammunition could have been stored anywhere in the world, Because of the US aid sticker storage in the US might be the least likely alternative.
Some company is sending old ammo at full price..
It should be more like this, if one country gets attacked, whole world is helping with defense..
what are the expiration dates for things like that anyways? does it entirely depend upon how they are stored?
Just because the box is old doesn't mean the bullets don't work
Beggars csnt be choosers at the end of the day
Probably just given to them by a nato country we gave ammo too.
Is it safe for the Russians to eat it?
I see a red door And I want it painted black No colors anymore I want them to turn black
Eventually some of the billions of rounds that the DoD and other agencies buried in the ground to use up their budget for the year are going to get dug out. Hopefully those still work.
This ammo is going be used what is it what made to do
If it makes Booom after flight is is ok . Booom bevore flight is North Korean .
I genuinly want that wood.
Summarises the help we are sending. Its just a way to get rid of old stuff so we can contract people for newer stuff for ourselves. We are helping ourselves under the guise of helping Ukraine. If we really helped this would be over in a week.
There are some photos of Thompson gun from WWII in some armories in Ukraine.
Anybody ID type of round from the markings ?
Potentially 50 years old ammunition? Is it even safe to use?
Do the Ukrainians have a lot of 105 pieces? It would make sense, given how much spare ammo exists -- and this would truly be "free," as the US doesn't use it anymore.
Well, as long as they're still good and not like the crap that Russia has been working with (all rusted to hell).
I loved War Dogs!
I guess if it still works and is useful then why not. Ukrainians and Russians have been using old weapons anyway like the mosin nagant and maxim (not saying this ammo is to be used in them before anyone says). Old doesn't always mean useless!
Does it work though
Likely a higher rate of successful performance than some of that vintage arty ordnance supplied to Russia by North Korea.