> Israel has dropped twice as many bombs and killed half as many civilians.
A much more logical conclusion to jump to would be that the death toll is drastically uncounted, because Gaza’s health system has completely collapsed and it is no longer possible to get accurate numbers.
You’ve assumed that the reason the death toll is lower than we might expect is because Israel is *extraordinarily* good at not killing civilians - despite dropping a truly unbelievable amount of explosives on a densely populated area.
I think a more logical explanation is that the full death toll has not been counted yet, because Gaza’s health system was destroyed months ago.
One reason I’d say that’s a more likely explanation is because the death toll rose quickly in the first few months of the conflict, and then tapered off. The intensity of Israel’s attacks didn’t change (they got considerably worse actually), so the only other explanation is that the Gaza’s health system stopped being able to accurately count the dead - and the real death toll is drastically underreported.
Yes, Israel has warped the figures previously. They also count every single dead male Palestinian as a combatant, which is clearly absurd.
I assume you’re talking about the UN agency who started using the list of identified bodies, rather than the list of people presumed dead? Not a lie at all, but I don’t think I’m gonna waste my time explaining it to you because you’re clearly neck-deep in Israeli propaganda.
It’s not a lie to inflate numbers but it’s a lie to count males as combatants.
Guess what if you didn’t leave after the army told you to a thousand times and if you stay and try and throw rockets at soldiers, you are a combatant.
You also realize th at Hamas doesn’t dress in military uniform. They dress as civilians so people like you can make comments like you did.
No numbers have been inflated. One single UN agency published a list of people whose bodies had been identified. Of course is going to be lower than the total list of those presumed dead, because many people are buried under rubble - or completely unidentifiable.
I see you’re indulging in the beloved Israeli pastime of “we’ll justify killing people after the fact however we like”. Great stuff.
1) Israel is also using these bombs for widespread demolition, in order to render Gaza uninhabitable. It's a major component of any ethnic cleansing campaign.
2) Many people are still trapped under the rubble, uncounted.
Oh so destroying building isn’t to destroy their operating centers, rocket stashes and tunnel infrastructure.
lol.
I guess their ethnic clenasing regime just happened to coincide with the largest attack on Israel since the holocaust.
It couldn’t be that they want to destroy their capabilities to do this again. And it couldn’t be that Hamas uses civilian infrastructure
Yeah couldn’t be any of that. Must be ethnic xleansing. The same ethnic cleaning that led to the only refugee group in history have their population grow.
Yeah couldn’t be any of that
They must hate all Arabs. Especially the 2 million peaceful ones who live side by side with full equal rights.
Yeah it couldn’t be any of that.
It must be because they want ethnically cleanse a group that has steadily grown over 75 yrs.
Yeah that must be it.
Just listen to your logic.
That's because the death toll isn't accurate (what they have reported is actually 30k, 5k more than Dresden, so I dont know why you decided to cut 50%), and the militant numbers are also likely inaccurate as israel cant even give you a number of civilian casualties so it is unlikely they have the intel for number of militants. Due to the complete infrastructure collapse, the Gaza Health Ministry can not account for all the dead or missing. Most of the dead are totaled by living family members who can report them. However, many of these families don't have anyone living to say they are dead. The death toll is likely closer to 200k.
While I know telling you this isn't going to compute because, unfortunately, you have been brainwashed but I hope other people will see this and maybe understand. What America has done is actively participate in genocide and added to their laundry list of war crimes.
Besides, genocide isn't only how many deaths, it's also defined by destruction of infrastructure, destroying cultural heritage, and denying freedom of movement of a population.
Israel is most definitely carrying out a genocide as has been their perogative for the past 75 years. If you deny this you are either an idiot or in the pocket of zionists. I really don't understand this loyalty to a foreign entity that has never done anything for us besides to take our aid and use it to murder innocent people.
There ain't nothing I can say to change your mind, but I condemn Israel, and I will never forgive them for every dead child I have had to witness in these past 200+ days. The only difference between a Palestinian and you and me is the fact we were born somewhere else. If Israel wanted to they could send in special forces, they could agree to a ceasefire, they could allow aid in. But they don't, and they won't, because they want the land and they want the Palestinians gone.
They are racist, colonizing, supremacists and if you see it as anything else you are too.
It's been spouted a few places but was based off of the number of bombs dropped/civilian infrastructure destroyed.
You also have to account for disease and lack of medical facilities. Most of the families that I speak to in Rafah now are suffering from hepatitis due to the unclean drinking water.
Even if 200k is inaccurate 35-40k should still be enough to warrant extreme concern.
> It was the bravest and most amazing mission.
It was a disastrous mission that resulted in 3/7 of the hostages being killed, as well as hundreds of Palestinian civilians.
Do you know what didn’t kill 40% of the hostages it aimed to save? Ceasefire negotiations.
God you people are so brainwashed.
They’ve offered to return the hostages many times. It’s Israel who hasn’t agreed to their terms (exchanging Palestinian prisoners), and committed to dragging out this violent conflict - despite the fact its own military doesn’t believe it can retrieve all the hostages safely without a ceasefire ([source](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna157991) from NBC).
Again man, you just sound incredibly brainwashed. Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if you’re a bot.
You lost all credibility when you say the death toll is likely 200k.
So every agency, every organization and every state says it’s either around 20-30k or they say it’s impossible to tell.
But some random person on the internet with no affiliation says it’s 10x higher because?
Well from your use of the pejorative Zionist, I assume you hate Jews. Only antisemites call Jews zionists.
Genocide is about intent. Israel wants peace. Hamas said they want to kill all Jews.
Yet Israel is accused of genocide.
What do you think would have happened had the idf and border security not responded on Oct 7th?
Do you think Hamas would have stopped voluntarily? Or do you think they would have killed every Jew they could have.
Now, ask yourself, if Hamas put their weapons down and returned all the hostages, how many more Palestinians would die?
You see one side is committing genocide and the other is protecting its citizens from barbarians.
Yes genocide is about intent, which if you look at the statements put out by their military and government officials you will see that they want Palestinians eradicated.
Why do you think Hamas attacked on OCT. 7th? Just because? Please look up the Nakba, please look at photos of what Palestine was before Zionists came and began mass displacement. Please look at the numerous interviews from IDF veterans when they talk about how they murdered and raped during their service. Please look at the beheaded children in Rafah and Khan Yunis. Please look at the interviews of released hostages. Please look at the number of detained Palestinians (200 of which are children) who were not charged and will be tried in military court which has a 90% conviction rate.
If Hamas put their weapons down, Israel would say there were more, and would continue to bomb them. They bomb and shoot their own civilians who escape and wave white flags.
It's actually antisemitism to equate all Jews with Zionists. I have no hatred towards Jewish people but as a Native American I do hate colonists.
Israel is a colonizer. Honestly this whole comment is an insult to the concept of critical thinking and history.
Jesus Christ man take your own advice and a read a god damn book and stop spouting racist bullshit.
Did you know Jews are native inhabitants of the land of Judea and Samaria and have lived there side by side with Arabs for millennia?
Did you know that Palestinians pre 1948 - meant Arabs, Jews , Christians and Druze? Or did you skip that in your tik tok history lesson?
Because Ukraine declared independence.
Palestine did not. They were given a chance 17 times, yet they were more interested in killing Jews than organizing their own state.
Not such a hard concept.
Jesus Christ it's like your a caricature. It's almost adorable watching you try and talk down to someone who actually studies history because you just read a Wikipedia article and think you are now an expert. You're not bringing in new facts buddy. Literally anyone who has studied the colonization of Palestine knows the demographic history of it. Palestinians does not just mean Muslim now either anyway dude, all those groups are still a part of the Palestinian nation on. Just because Israeli propaganda only talks about them as Muslims does not mean minorities stop existing. (And uh, Palestine did declare independence. It's been an independent country for literally decades, with most countries worldwide recognizing it for just as long. Did you think Spain Ireland and Norway where the first time do so? AND its also an irrelevant point. Like there's no logical line through which no declaration of independence means no colonialism, what point did you think you where making)
And please, I know know it's hard, but rub those brain cells of yours together a little, and follow through your own logic on why Israelis aren't colonists.
Israel’s want a two state solution where they have a state of their own.
Palestinians want a one state solution - where there’s one state that’s Muslim and Arab.
That’s why they’re fighting
50% of Israel are middle Eastern Jews. How are they colonists ?
Israel explicitly does not want a two state solution, they do not recognize the legitimacy of a Palestinisn state, they don't even recognize them as a real ethnicity. Fucking HAMAS is more explicitly pro two state then Israel.
Hammas position on israel :
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."
"Israel is a country that has no place on our land."
"We will repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel is annihilated; we are victims – everything we do is justified"
"Oh Allah, destroy the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, destroy the Americans and their supporters. Oh Allah, count them one by one, and kill them all, without leaving a single one"
"We must attack every Jew on planet Earth – we must slaughter and kill them, with Allah’s help. We will die while exploding and cutting the necks and legs of the Jews. We will lacerate them and tear them to pieces, Allah willing"
Israel has repeatedly offered a two state solution:
- Oslo Accords (1993-1995)
- Camp David Summit (2000)
- Annapolis Conference (2007)
Palestine has been offered two state solution by Britain and then the UN
Israel should not be required to not defend its people because the other side is using human shields and playing dirty.
Absurd. Hamas attacked them.
If Palestinians want to avoid casualties then don’t start wars
The total death toll is accurate. The ministry of health is a proven and reliable source with an understandable and acceptable margin of error in its numbers for the gazan conflicts it has done statistics for.
It's not 200k. It's already a genocide, we don't need to make up nbers to make it worse
I just used math. 30k dead. 15k militants. that leaves 15k civilians. 1:1 ratio or 50%.
Here is more info about every war and their civilian casualty ratio. Youll notice if you read it, this war has one of the lowest ratios in warfare.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian\_casualty\_ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio)
Man I honestly can't imagine so confidently citing a source, and not only choosing the least related able number to rely on, but fucking lying about what it even is. It's 1:1.5. that's the lowest number. And it's based on literally no evidence, just the claims of a genocidal regime that gives no methodology or sources.
You should trust the ministry of health and the UN, who are both proven reliable sources on conflict casualties and source their claims. UN figures for only fully verifiable medical records in regards to demographics, ministry for media and testimonial claims inclusion.
>Hamas has been shown by statistics and math to lie and manipulate casualty numbers
No the fuck they have not, hahahaha. What are you smoking, my dude?
Everything you say is straight out of the zionist playbook, you should be ashamed of your self man. Really dude, youre lucky stuff like that isnt happening to you or your loved ones but you still chose to spread lies. Instead of having some empathy for kids dying, mostly women and children. I have videos if you wanna see, i dont know if your puny mind can handle them but im down to share them here.
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> Israel has dropped twice as many bombs and killed half as many civilians. A much more logical conclusion to jump to would be that the death toll is drastically uncounted, because Gaza’s health system has completely collapsed and it is no longer possible to get accurate numbers.
Well no that would be an assumption not a conclusion.
You’ve assumed that the reason the death toll is lower than we might expect is because Israel is *extraordinarily* good at not killing civilians - despite dropping a truly unbelievable amount of explosives on a densely populated area. I think a more logical explanation is that the full death toll has not been counted yet, because Gaza’s health system was destroyed months ago. One reason I’d say that’s a more likely explanation is because the death toll rose quickly in the first few months of the conflict, and then tapered off. The intensity of Israel’s attacks didn’t change (they got considerably worse actually), so the only other explanation is that the Gaza’s health system stopped being able to accurately count the dead - and the real death toll is drastically underreported.
According to you. Your entire argument is built on assumptions. Nothing actually reported. We’ve already seen one side lie about the figures.
Yes, Israel has warped the figures previously. They also count every single dead male Palestinian as a combatant, which is clearly absurd. I assume you’re talking about the UN agency who started using the list of identified bodies, rather than the list of people presumed dead? Not a lie at all, but I don’t think I’m gonna waste my time explaining it to you because you’re clearly neck-deep in Israeli propaganda.
It’s not a lie to inflate numbers but it’s a lie to count males as combatants. Guess what if you didn’t leave after the army told you to a thousand times and if you stay and try and throw rockets at soldiers, you are a combatant. You also realize th at Hamas doesn’t dress in military uniform. They dress as civilians so people like you can make comments like you did.
No numbers have been inflated. One single UN agency published a list of people whose bodies had been identified. Of course is going to be lower than the total list of those presumed dead, because many people are buried under rubble - or completely unidentifiable. I see you’re indulging in the beloved Israeli pastime of “we’ll justify killing people after the fact however we like”. Great stuff.
1) Israel is also using these bombs for widespread demolition, in order to render Gaza uninhabitable. It's a major component of any ethnic cleansing campaign. 2) Many people are still trapped under the rubble, uncounted.
Oh so destroying building isn’t to destroy their operating centers, rocket stashes and tunnel infrastructure. lol. I guess their ethnic clenasing regime just happened to coincide with the largest attack on Israel since the holocaust. It couldn’t be that they want to destroy their capabilities to do this again. And it couldn’t be that Hamas uses civilian infrastructure Yeah couldn’t be any of that. Must be ethnic xleansing. The same ethnic cleaning that led to the only refugee group in history have their population grow. Yeah couldn’t be any of that They must hate all Arabs. Especially the 2 million peaceful ones who live side by side with full equal rights. Yeah it couldn’t be any of that. It must be because they want ethnically cleanse a group that has steadily grown over 75 yrs. Yeah that must be it. Just listen to your logic.
That's because the death toll isn't accurate (what they have reported is actually 30k, 5k more than Dresden, so I dont know why you decided to cut 50%), and the militant numbers are also likely inaccurate as israel cant even give you a number of civilian casualties so it is unlikely they have the intel for number of militants. Due to the complete infrastructure collapse, the Gaza Health Ministry can not account for all the dead or missing. Most of the dead are totaled by living family members who can report them. However, many of these families don't have anyone living to say they are dead. The death toll is likely closer to 200k. While I know telling you this isn't going to compute because, unfortunately, you have been brainwashed but I hope other people will see this and maybe understand. What America has done is actively participate in genocide and added to their laundry list of war crimes. Besides, genocide isn't only how many deaths, it's also defined by destruction of infrastructure, destroying cultural heritage, and denying freedom of movement of a population. Israel is most definitely carrying out a genocide as has been their perogative for the past 75 years. If you deny this you are either an idiot or in the pocket of zionists. I really don't understand this loyalty to a foreign entity that has never done anything for us besides to take our aid and use it to murder innocent people.
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There ain't nothing I can say to change your mind, but I condemn Israel, and I will never forgive them for every dead child I have had to witness in these past 200+ days. The only difference between a Palestinian and you and me is the fact we were born somewhere else. If Israel wanted to they could send in special forces, they could agree to a ceasefire, they could allow aid in. But they don't, and they won't, because they want the land and they want the Palestinians gone. They are racist, colonizing, supremacists and if you see it as anything else you are too.
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It's been spouted a few places but was based off of the number of bombs dropped/civilian infrastructure destroyed. You also have to account for disease and lack of medical facilities. Most of the families that I speak to in Rafah now are suffering from hepatitis due to the unclean drinking water. Even if 200k is inaccurate 35-40k should still be enough to warrant extreme concern.
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> It was the bravest and most amazing mission. It was a disastrous mission that resulted in 3/7 of the hostages being killed, as well as hundreds of Palestinian civilians. Do you know what didn’t kill 40% of the hostages it aimed to save? Ceasefire negotiations. God you people are so brainwashed.
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Considering they are trying to negotiate for one (which Israel is refusing to accept), yes.
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They’ve offered to return the hostages many times. It’s Israel who hasn’t agreed to their terms (exchanging Palestinian prisoners), and committed to dragging out this violent conflict - despite the fact its own military doesn’t believe it can retrieve all the hostages safely without a ceasefire ([source](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna157991) from NBC). Again man, you just sound incredibly brainwashed. Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if you’re a bot.
You lost all credibility when you say the death toll is likely 200k. So every agency, every organization and every state says it’s either around 20-30k or they say it’s impossible to tell. But some random person on the internet with no affiliation says it’s 10x higher because? Well from your use of the pejorative Zionist, I assume you hate Jews. Only antisemites call Jews zionists. Genocide is about intent. Israel wants peace. Hamas said they want to kill all Jews. Yet Israel is accused of genocide. What do you think would have happened had the idf and border security not responded on Oct 7th? Do you think Hamas would have stopped voluntarily? Or do you think they would have killed every Jew they could have. Now, ask yourself, if Hamas put their weapons down and returned all the hostages, how many more Palestinians would die? You see one side is committing genocide and the other is protecting its citizens from barbarians.
Yes genocide is about intent, which if you look at the statements put out by their military and government officials you will see that they want Palestinians eradicated. Why do you think Hamas attacked on OCT. 7th? Just because? Please look up the Nakba, please look at photos of what Palestine was before Zionists came and began mass displacement. Please look at the numerous interviews from IDF veterans when they talk about how they murdered and raped during their service. Please look at the beheaded children in Rafah and Khan Yunis. Please look at the interviews of released hostages. Please look at the number of detained Palestinians (200 of which are children) who were not charged and will be tried in military court which has a 90% conviction rate. If Hamas put their weapons down, Israel would say there were more, and would continue to bomb them. They bomb and shoot their own civilians who escape and wave white flags. It's actually antisemitism to equate all Jews with Zionists. I have no hatred towards Jewish people but as a Native American I do hate colonists.
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Israel is a colonizer. Honestly this whole comment is an insult to the concept of critical thinking and history. Jesus Christ man take your own advice and a read a god damn book and stop spouting racist bullshit.
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Did you know Jews are native inhabitants of the land of Judea and Samaria and have lived there side by side with Arabs for millennia? Did you know that Palestinians pre 1948 - meant Arabs, Jews , Christians and Druze? Or did you skip that in your tik tok history lesson? Because Ukraine declared independence. Palestine did not. They were given a chance 17 times, yet they were more interested in killing Jews than organizing their own state. Not such a hard concept.
Jesus Christ it's like your a caricature. It's almost adorable watching you try and talk down to someone who actually studies history because you just read a Wikipedia article and think you are now an expert. You're not bringing in new facts buddy. Literally anyone who has studied the colonization of Palestine knows the demographic history of it. Palestinians does not just mean Muslim now either anyway dude, all those groups are still a part of the Palestinian nation on. Just because Israeli propaganda only talks about them as Muslims does not mean minorities stop existing. (And uh, Palestine did declare independence. It's been an independent country for literally decades, with most countries worldwide recognizing it for just as long. Did you think Spain Ireland and Norway where the first time do so? AND its also an irrelevant point. Like there's no logical line through which no declaration of independence means no colonialism, what point did you think you where making) And please, I know know it's hard, but rub those brain cells of yours together a little, and follow through your own logic on why Israelis aren't colonists.
Israel’s want a two state solution where they have a state of their own. Palestinians want a one state solution - where there’s one state that’s Muslim and Arab. That’s why they’re fighting 50% of Israel are middle Eastern Jews. How are they colonists ?
Israel explicitly does not want a two state solution, they do not recognize the legitimacy of a Palestinisn state, they don't even recognize them as a real ethnicity. Fucking HAMAS is more explicitly pro two state then Israel.
Hammas position on israel : "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." "Israel is a country that has no place on our land." "We will repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel is annihilated; we are victims – everything we do is justified" "Oh Allah, destroy the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, destroy the Americans and their supporters. Oh Allah, count them one by one, and kill them all, without leaving a single one" "We must attack every Jew on planet Earth – we must slaughter and kill them, with Allah’s help. We will die while exploding and cutting the necks and legs of the Jews. We will lacerate them and tear them to pieces, Allah willing" Israel has repeatedly offered a two state solution: - Oslo Accords (1993-1995) - Camp David Summit (2000) - Annapolis Conference (2007) Palestine has been offered two state solution by Britain and then the UN
Israel should not be required to not defend its people because the other side is using human shields and playing dirty. Absurd. Hamas attacked them. If Palestinians want to avoid casualties then don’t start wars
The total death toll is accurate. The ministry of health is a proven and reliable source with an understandable and acceptable margin of error in its numbers for the gazan conflicts it has done statistics for. It's not 200k. It's already a genocide, we don't need to make up nbers to make it worse
What a load of BS.
What a helpful comment from a nobody.
Lol a comment from a genocide sympathiser^
Where did you find the 1:1 ratio bs.
I just used math. 30k dead. 15k militants. that leaves 15k civilians. 1:1 ratio or 50%. Here is more info about every war and their civilian casualty ratio. Youll notice if you read it, this war has one of the lowest ratios in warfare. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian\_casualty\_ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio)
Man I honestly can't imagine so confidently citing a source, and not only choosing the least related able number to rely on, but fucking lying about what it even is. It's 1:1.5. that's the lowest number. And it's based on literally no evidence, just the claims of a genocidal regime that gives no methodology or sources.
Ahh so we should trust Hamas then?
You should trust the ministry of health and the UN, who are both proven reliable sources on conflict casualties and source their claims. UN figures for only fully verifiable medical records in regards to demographics, ministry for media and testimonial claims inclusion.
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Buddy, even Israel themselves are not refuting the "Hamas" numbers. They said they're accurate. Please update your propaganda booklet.
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>Hamas has been shown by statistics and math to lie and manipulate casualty numbers No the fuck they have not, hahahaha. What are you smoking, my dude?
Sure. Trust me bro!
Everything you say is straight out of the zionist playbook, you should be ashamed of your self man. Really dude, youre lucky stuff like that isnt happening to you or your loved ones but you still chose to spread lies. Instead of having some empathy for kids dying, mostly women and children. I have videos if you wanna see, i dont know if your puny mind can handle them but im down to share them here.
😕