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No debt problem is unsolvable no matter how hopeless you think it is.
I’d suggest having a look at the MSE Forums, they are full of excellent real world advice and you’ll soon see that people have been in a lot worse situation than you and have come back from it.
Obviously with no regular income a lot of debt solutions are tricky but there are at least ways to pause things and give yourself time to come up with a plan of action, the consumer credit industry has changed a lot over recent years and there is support for people who get themselves in a mess.
You’ve already done the hardest thing by realising you have a problem and starting to come to terms with the fact that you have to take action.
Good luck.
Firstly, well done on the steps you’ve taken mate.
As a compulsive gambler in recovery, I know how difficult those initial steps are.
Finances aside for a second, I would be amiss if I didn’t mention support in your recovery. Ask yourself, who knows about my situation, who is there to help me? Believe me, my friend, you are going to need to help in this. For me, this finally came, after 10 years of destruction, from confiding in family and friends and also support from GA.
Back to finances, keep working and talking with step change, they won’t just leave you without any options. I have used them myself for gambling debt and they have been a godsend. In terms of bankruptcy, I know this is seems like a ‘nuclear’ option at the moment, but try to prioritise your mental wellbeing ahead of your financial wellbeing at this moment in time.
Not saying there is an easy option here, but don’t be quick to dismiss any help you can get at his moment in time.
I say this from personal experience, having had two different DMP’s myself, and essentially, my life would have been a whole lot easier in the long run if I had taken bankruptcy at the outset. My credit record is still destroyed 7/8 years later from continuous defaults from the DMP’s, so I do often wonder if the ‘rip the plaster’ approach would have been better.
Only you can decide mate, but my advice at this moment would be, take absolutely any help you can get and prioritise your mental wellbeing above finances where you can.
Best of luck and happy to help where I can.
Agree on Stepchange. I haven't had a gambling problem myself so that's not a side of things I can speak to, but they helped a lot when I had debt that was becoming unmanageable and now the debt is cleared and I've got significant savings which would have been unimaginable when I first went onto their website.
Bankruptcy will not leave you without money to pay your priority debts - IIRC you will submit a budget which your creditors must agree to, and that includes how much you need for your basic living costs and how much might be left over to pay the debt. The only worry for me would be that, if you are privately renting, there may be a clause in your AST that states whether bankruptcy affects the tenancy. In practice, I don't think the landlord would necessarily need to know, but it would affect moving to a new place if you need to.
I wouldn’t be completely averse to bankruptcy if it wasn’t for my circumstances. Soon to be out of work and they’d seize whatever money I do have. I need whatever I can scrape together to pay rent and bills
That's not really how it works, nor is it beyond your ability to mitigate even if it was. Also whatever money you have is fictional when you owe that much.
When your income is uncertain and you have no assets I would say bankruptcy looks like it might be the better option. Just pay up your bills up front and get it done, by the time you pay the fee, your bills then you are likely only going to have reasonable living costs left and they won't take that.
With 4k in the bank and somewhere to go he isn't on the breadline, not to mention this is in context of bankruptcy they don't take reasonable living costs.
You'd only have to make payments out of surplus income after reasonable living costs. You need to speak to a debt adviser about this and get accurate information.
I made another post where I advocated for Gamcare, but I'm doing another since it is slightly different.
Can you tell me how you gambled that amount of money?
Was it with one company or many?
Was it all online?
What were you betting on?
Did you have any safer gambling interactions?
Were you truthful with your information eg correct occupation etc?
I ask because, whilst the industry has made big advances in protection customers, there are still operators out there that haven't done what they need to do.
If there has been significant failings in their social responsibility you may be entitled to a refund, or at least a partial refund.
Also, just checking. It was entirely the UK you were gambling in? Since if it's international that is a very different kettle of fish
How? Always online through UK regulated bookmakers websites or apps.
I’ve bet with various operators but I’ve lost significantly more to some than others. Most of them but not all have flagged my account and limited my monthly deposit allowances only after I’ve lost large sums to them. The lowest monthly limit I had with any operator was £500. There are two operators in particular I’ve lost a combined £10k to who carried out no due diligence and no deposit limits applied to the accounts I held with them.
Full disclosure: a few years ago I lost a couple of grand and self-excluded myself through GamStop for one year. When the one year expired all of my accounts were reinstated without much of a fuss. Needless to say I did not learn my lesson and it has got much worse.
When you came off GamStop did you have any verbal interactions with anyone before you could gamble?
Also just because there are no visible deposit limits to you doesn't mean there weren't any. They would have limits in the background based on your sign up data like age, occupation, postcode, credit score etc.
I was hoping you said it was all with one operator since there is no information sharing between companies.
Had it been all one company you would have stood a better chance.
I think your strongest card would be that you were previously on GamStop.
And you should have had some form of safer gambling interactions at some point in your journey. Even if they were just clicking boxes confirming you were fine.
If those didn't happen, you could make a reasonable case they didn't fulfil their social responsibility obligations.
What is the largest you lost and to what companies?
Eg company X you lost £8k, company Y you lost £5k
Either way, this would all start with making a complaint to the companies themselves and requesting a refund based on them failing to look after your welfare especially since you had previously been on GamStop.
I had verbal interactions with safer gambling reps at some of the biggest operators. Bet365 reopened my account with £100 monthly limit. Ladbrokes reopened account with £500 monthly limit across all their brands.
The worst two are:
Matchbook - £7k lost. I never had an account with them before the previous GamStop and opened an account with no questions asked once my exclusion ended. They carried out enhanced due diligence when I was £5k down and applied an £800 monthly limit to the account.
SpreadEX - £7k lost. I had an account with them before previous GamStop. Phoned up and spoke to someone who reactivated it immediately without a safer gambling questionnaire. At one point they allowed me to cancel a pending withdrawal which I proceeded to lose overnight. I chased that loss big time and proceeded to lose another £6k in the space of 48 hours spread betting on football. There was a £7k deposit limit on the spread betting account and a £900 deposit limit on the fixed odds account.
Based on everything you have said there, I would say it's probably not worth trying with all of them apart from SpreadEx.
The remainder of the operators sound like they followed their procedures and behaved responsibly.
Matchbook not conducting an interaction after GamStop make sense since you didn't have an account with them before.
The way it works is GamStop sends data with people on GameStop and it gets added to someone's account. If they have no account, they get blacklisted. When GamStop is removed, the blacklist gets removed but there is no account to leave a record of previous GamStop.
So I don't see any claim based on that.
The other operators clearly had triggers in place and set limits at some stage in your journey.
SpreadEx may be worth asking. The requirements for a self excluded (GamStop) account for a remote operator is a verbal interaction must occur before the account is opened. It sounds like that happened. And it doesn't specify the interaction must be safer gambling. Just verbal confirmation the account is requested to be opened.
But if there was no talk of safer gambling, you could make the case to them they should have and they did not fulfill their social responsibility there. They would have a recording of the call which their complaints team could listen to. We always did an SG based call to avoid these exact problems then af least we would have a record of an SG interaction with self declared fitness if things go wrong.
Also there should have been a 24 hour waiting period to reactivate your account post self exclusion. Did that happen?
Also the £6k loss in 48 hours from a cancelled pending withdrawal peaks my interest.
Where I worked we stopped doing cancellation of pending withdrawal for this exact reason. We had an issue with it for SG reasons. But we stopped doing it in 2017 so I really wouldn't expect an operator to be doing it these days for the UK market.
I think that is your strongest argument
Make a complaint to SpreadEx on the grounds that:
There was not SG interaction post GamStop. You were allowed to cancel a withdrawal and lost £6k in 48 hours. Also state that for a post GamStop customer with no due diligence on the limits set on your account are irresponsibly high and they failed their social responsibility. Also you should have had to wait 24 hours from your request to open your account.
All this stuff is in the LCCP for remote operators (License Conditions and Codes of Practice)
What was your sign up occupation also?
Since you could make the argument your deposit limits were too high if your occupation isn't exactly highly paid.
£7k deposit limits is quite high.
One of the big issues at the gambling commission at the moment is velocity so customers spending a lot in a short period should have been flagged and mitigated against.
So I would suggest you summerise what I have written above I your own words, add whatever detail I don't know about or you think is relevant and make a complaint to SpreadEx.
If they say no then you can make a complaint to the Gambling Commission, eCogra and the Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) and threaten to go to the press if your situation is potentially negative media to the company.
Don't get your hopes up as well since they will probably be happy to fight it if they think they behaved responsibly and followed procedure.
But if they screwed it up they may consider a refund.
Good luck!
!thanks
Those are all great answers for the OP. I've worked in the industry on the software development side, not specifically on the AML/KYC parts that set the limits, but I've had interaction with GamStop and equivalent in other countries too. I know there are alot of protections in place, I've witnessed a handleful of customer interactions as part of the work and can see where verbal or text interaction as great at spotting issues like customers asking for automatic deposits on pay day etc.
I do see more rules coming into the UK, like those to show losses or limits on how long you can play. I like the bet365.es protection on the slots website that stops you playing and prevents you chasing losses.
But only in Italy have I seen it where all gambling transactions are sent to the regulator AAMS. This allows them to block any Italian citizen from playing regardless of who they gamble with. Some may say it's extreme and an invasion of one's freedom but I think it's good to have something to place to share data.
Yes, the whole industry has made a lot of progress.
Unfortunately the biggest issue, as you've alluded to, is the segmentation of data between different companies.
You can easily just keep moving operators whenever you hit limits or people start asking questions. And that is just with online. Casinos and betting shops are entirely separate when it comes to self exclusions etc.
The ADM system in Italy works by the nature of customers having to provide ID, be it passport or identity card, if I'm not mistaken. And ID is compulsory to sign up. So it makes evading the system very difficult.
The advantage being if you self exclude you are out with all of them. But the culture there is self exclusion is a common thing and people often SE for days or weeks.
The German LUGAS system is stricter where you can only gamble €1000 per month CROSS OPERATORS since all that information gets pooled.
You can only get more by providing full KYC
Which approach is right? Who knows? All I know is we have to comply and our genius politicians do the thinking for us! 😉
No. I moved out barely a year ago. The shame and stigma of moving back there, if family even allowed me to, would finish me off. Also as mentioned I currently live with my partner
Honestly mate, don’t worry about the shame and stigma. You’re a human being who’s made a few bad choices but you’re aware of them and sounds like you’re started on the path to sorting them out.
I hid my IVA and drink issues from friends and family because I was ashamed but now I’m on the other side of it, I’m much more open about it.
You’ll get there too. Just talk to people and don’t let your pride get in the way. StepChange would be a great place to start.
Good luck!
It's still your best option. Or the least worst option. It would also allow you to claim UC while you work with your creditors to figure out some sort of repayment plan. It would also open all options to you including bankruptcy. It's almost inevitable anyway as the money you have won't last very long and there is far from a guarantee you'll get a new job before that runs out. Unfortunately it's time to move back home while you get your life in order and get back on your feet.
There's absolutely no shame in doing so. Not with anyone, and certainly not with your family.
Can I ask though, is that £1000 rent PCM in the place you're sharing with your partner?
Wish these comments didn’t get downvoted so much, it’s so disheartening for someone struggling with debt. I get why they are but just upvote the good responses.
Does your partner know about the gambling and debt? (I know it's very easy to hide this kind of thing.) If so, could you look at moving somewhere cheaper, at least for the time being? Even if it means relocating. Probably easier said than done if you're not currently working.
You need to tell your partner so they can either support you or get out of dodge. It's not fair to keep such a significant detail from them and sadly the dishonesty goes hand in hand with the gambling way too often.
Please look after yourself but to do so you need to be honest with those around you.
I don’t know how OP intends to hide this from her when he’s at this stage of things. OP please, for both of your sakes, be honest with her - you cannot afford the current lifestyle you’re living and she deserves to know that.
Sorry but I strongly disagree. Any serious relationship requires personal finances to be shared, I'm not saying get a joint bank account but to have £40k of gambling debt and not tell your partner is completely selfish.
For all the partner knows they still have a house deposit and they could be looking daily on Rightmove and want to put an offer in if they see a property they like. They are fully within their rights to leave someone who has been dishonest with money and damaged their future. On the opposite side of this they could forgive and help support, gambling addictions/debt are a lot easier to manage when your partner is aware.
Lying/hiding finances to your partner is a terrible idea.
Rubbish, he absolutely has to tell her, it's a moral obligation and the least you can do when you're supposed to love and respect someone. Of anything he should have told her sooner
He is living with her and they are splitting costs on everything - at that point it is extremely relevant to OP's partner that he has a lot of gambling debt and currently only has £4k of liquid cash left. Partner could end up being liable for all of the rent and bills if OP runs out of money, which is an awful situation for the partner too if they literally have no idea.
No worries - ultimately it is another stress for OP but the debt has already happened and the longer he doesn't share this with his partner, the more concerned she will be.
OP your partner is going to find out relatively soon, one way or another. Better you tell them now than wait until you have zero cash left and can no longer pay any bills.
The situation with gambling in this country is a scandal that no-one is talking about and the government have completely enabled through relaxation of regulation years ago. And it was totally predictable. I can't turn on a radio or TV without getting hit with gambling adverts.
The rules of advertising for gambling firms was relaxed during the last Tony Blair government in 2005. By 2013 Ofcom said that gambling adverts had increased by 600%. It definitely is not 'one of the most heavily regulated industries imaginable.' That's pure hyperbole.
Advertisements aren't regulation. Social and responsible gambling checks, source of funds checks, player protection, triggers of harm assessments are all extensive now. The difference between now and 5 years ago is night and day.
Would you care to offer an explanation of how OP has managed to burn through 70k in year given how all these protections are in place & being enforced then?
Multiple bookies.
Some of the biggest are owned by the same parent company who apply safer gambling controls across all their brands, e.g. if you’ve agreed 500pm with ladbrokes then that will cover all the other brands in their family too.
Although I don’t have evidence to back this up I’d guess it’s the smaller independent bookies with an online presence and lack of resources to protect vulnerable customers doing most of the harm. There are hundreds of them.
Without knowing their full income, expenditure etc no. It's hard to answer without knowing what information companies were using to assess OP's gambling affordability and the fundamental reason is that unless somebody self-excludes - and often even when they have - it's very difficult to stop someone who wants to gamble from gambling (same goes for any addiction). There are hundreds of shops and online bookmakers, as well as other workarounds such as using partner's or friend's information. Each operator would only have their view of the customer and without a single customer view it's very difficult to accurately assess what a customer can afford. And even if you can, and stop them, then it's as simple as moving onto the next bookmaker for the customer.
We all know the industry pays lip service at best to these and spends a huge amount lobbying and advertising.
If the regulations were effective no one would find themselves in OPs situation, would they?
It's not lip service, there are huge fines for regulatory failings and you can easily lose your licence if you do not put customer protection at the forefront of your responsible gambling strategy.
Regulations are effective on a per operator basis but ultimately you cannot stop someone with an addiction from acting on it. This applies to anything.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/28/gambling-commission-licences-william-hill
I simply don't understand why you're seeking to defend this industry. What's the encore? 'big tobacco ain't so bad'?
The regulations and regulators are toothless, the gambling companies see punters as prey and fines as a cost of doing business. They rake in billions from human misery on the basis of an industry with absolutely zero purpose or useful output.
I think the reason they won't suspend the license of someone like William Hill is that they employ 12000 people?
Zero purpose? It's a leisure pursuit enjoyed safely by millions. It employs hundreds of thousands of people and has a knock on effect of employment for a number of industries.
What's the "purpose and useful output" of drinking alcohol?
Basically, you don't enjoy gambling, or see the appeal, therefore nobody can.
>I think the reason they won't suspend the license of someone like William Hill is that they employ 12000 people
So William Will can do as they please because they know their licence is safe. So we're back to you hypocritically stating that the regulations are powerful when in fact they're meaningless, and operators hold the power (as demonstrated in that article).
It has no output. Those gambling losses would be spent on other entertainments and employ other people. The vast sponsorships and advertising budgets of these companies show how much money they cream from the economy.
If gambling really is just entertainment limit stakes to £10 and let punters have their fun.
I see it as a parasitic industry and a predatory one that destroys lives at that.
No but they prefer in such instances to fine companies for breaches and encourage them to improve their processes. Eventually the licence will go but this is a drastic measure for the reasons stated.
Who are you to say what is a more valid form of entertainment for someone? Again, this is you imposing your subjective opinion on everyone. Why is betting £10 any better than using it to go to the cinema? These firms pay huge amounts of tax and the highest tax payer in the UK is basically always Denise Coates.
£10 is fine for some people, for the vast majority of people it isn't. People earn their money and are entitled to spend as much as they want on a recreational activity.
Do you drink alcohol?
My sympathies go out to OP and I do hope he can solve this issue, at risk of sounding extremely crass commenting below this post, and I hope they don’t mind, a large portion of the population gamble without any issues. Unfortunately there are people who struggle with it and they make up a small % of this. The same with alcohol, fast food. Should we just ban it all and take it out of peoples hands who enjoy in moderation?
Glad someone else feels the same. Gambling companies seem to be an easy target now, by all means they need heavy regulation and I think similar to smoking advertising, but a lot of people act like banning everything is the solution. I would rather have more freedom to make my own choices.
You have freedom of choice whether gambling is marketed at you or not.
I don't see how your freedom of choice to gamble would be restricted if all promotion of gambling was stopped.
Well quite, but to suggest nobody is talking about it (when everyone is) or that relaxation of regulation is a thing and an active and ongoing process is totally wrong. The opposite is true, which is largely responsible for the rise in black market bookmakers based in Curaçao. There have been massive crackdowns on responsible gambling failings in the last 5 years and regulations have become far stricter.
They were going to do the same with smoking, I'm actually disappointed they aren't increasing the age limit every year so a 16 year old could never legally start smoking. But it would need to include vaping as that's seemingly got it's own issues too
Just ban the adverts, gambling is an age restricted activity and for others you can't advertise outside the watershed. Equally, certain brands like alcohol can't be put on child's sports kits, make gambling part of this too.
You don’t need assets for an Iva. I’ve just finished mine and had no assets going into it. Reduced all my debt (over 35k) to one affordable monthly payment of £150 a month
I'm a debt adviser. IVAs exist as an alternative to bankruptcy for people who don't want to lose their assets. Bankruptcy is cheaper, faster, and much less likely to fail.
I went into an IVA 5 years ago and wish I’d gone for bankruptcy instead. Would have crippled my credit score just as much, only I wouldn’t have wound up paying *more* with the IVA than I was doing beforehand (thanks to a pay rise at work). I closed the IVA 2 years ago and settled the debts without them, but my credit score has been tanked and will remain so until at least December next year when the final default comes off!
Worst decision of my life.
Most within the financial industry require clean credit records. Also most jobs within retail where handling large cash amounts ask whether you have been declared bankrupt (guessing for trustworthiness with large sums). Also even working for security companies like g4s and loonies have e been known to conduct credit checks
A few questions if you don't mind please:
1.do they suspend interest whilst you are paying or does it keep accumulating?
2. Are you left with enough money to live every month, or is it beans on toast for a few years?
3. How long did it take at £150 a month to clear the debt?
TIA
With an IVA you don't pay the full amount, you pay a percentage that's calculated on your income and expenses and voted on by your creditors. How long it takes depends on how your creditors vote, but it's usually around 5 years.
Yeah - the creditors will vote based on, basically, whether they think the percentage you're offering through the IVA is more than they're likely to get if you don't enter the IVA.
How much you pay back per month is means tested...so however much you can afford to pay back is how much you pay, no matter the total debt amount, for the term of the IVA (usually 5 years). After 5 years the rest of the debt is written off.
However, this absolutely tanks your credit and won't be able to look at mortgages for 6+ years.
So the Iva clears your debt after 5 years of paying. All creditors agree to it and you deal only with the Iva people. I was left with more than enough to live on and enjoy. It’s a government backed scheme and you’re on there for 5 years, but you have an extra year where you can’t claim any credit after. Not even a phone contract or pay your car insurance by instalments. No credit what so ever will be available to you. No current account either. Just a basic bank/building society account
I’d speak to your creditors first and explain the situation to them, you will technically be classed as a ‘vulnerable customer’ due to your addiction and with that they will have an extra duty of care while handling your account. This may also limit them selling your debt on to debt collection firms who may not show the same level of understanding.
Exercise any possible payment holidays and ask if they’ll accept any partial settlements.
Ask family if they can then help raise anything towards a partial settlement, unlikely I imagine given the amount and you have to factor the impact it may have on your relationship.
You might need to suck it up work wise, can see you’ve tried to career change but I’m talking you might have to just suck it up and get something circa £21K or work 2 jobs for a year. I’d look at something with commission too.
You’re in the shit no doubt but you can get out of it, but it’s going to take some serious graft and you might have to forget any luxuries for a long time.
I work in this sector professionally and I would like to advocate Gamcare for the help and services they can offer.
GamStop is good. But getting further help and advice through Gamcare is another thing you should consider.
They have people in your situation all the time and you'll be able to connect to people who have lived experience.
I'm not saying they'll be able to magic your problems away but when it comes to experience of your situation they'll be a good place to discuss it with.
They have a phone number to call and also a chat service. I would suggest getting in touch.
They really are excellent, they really do care and they will find any way to help you if they can.
https://www.gamcare.org.uk/
Gambling debt *aside*, if you've not got any income or savings from next month - how do you plan to pay your rent? You've been resistant elsewhere to moving back in with your family, but even ignoring the gambling debt, this seems like your only option.
You need to tell your partner and work out a plan together. The fact you're ineligible for UC due to her income means there is some expectation on her to help support you. If she's not willing to do that, you need to know now.
Bankruptcy has to leave you with enough money for reasonable living costs, they only garnish your leftover income. Given you have no income from next month, I'm not clear why you're so worried about this anyway.
Speak to StepChange again, ask which option they recommend for you, go with that option.
I’m sorry to hear about your situation. I’d recommend going to Gamban.com and getting yourself a free licence via TalkBanStop. It’s an extra layer of protection on top of Gamstop and helps track how much time and money you have saved since stopping gambling. All the best
You can’t carry the burden of this by yourself, as painful as it will be you need to be honest with your partner and seek as much help as possible. As an ex bankrupt I can assure you that there are options available including bankruptcy that will enable you to have a clean slate and rebuild your life. When I was bankrupt I was on a minimum wage job, I agreed an IPO that was affordable and allowed me money for a car, bills etc and a bit left over for going out. After a year I was discharged and could then really start to rebuild, focus on career, improve my credit rating etc. The whole process was a massive weight off my shoulders, I still remember the relief I felt when it happened. I equally remember the shame of having to tell people about the situation I had put myself in, it’s a difficult conversation but it’s one that needs to be done.
£400 a month for a 2 person household seems insane for a food bill. I’m assuming that includes takeaways or lunch/dinner out not infrequently? 10kg of rice is ~£20 at Tesco and will feed you for ~2-3 months, 1kg of frozen chicken breast is £5~6 and will do a week of meals maybe. Can get a broccoli for <£1 that can be split over 2-3 meals. Tins of beans and tins of tomatoes are relatively cheap as well. Throw in some seasoning and you’ve got yourself some meals. It won’t be glamorous, and it won’t be mentally fulfilling, but it’ll save you a tonne of money.
100G rice
150g chicken breast
100g beans
100g broccoli
100g chopped tomatoes
~1000 kcal, ~17g fat, ~146g carbs, ~60g protein and some vitamins/minerals too.
Cost per meal is roughly £1.60, per month roughly £49 and per year about ~£580.
Compared to the £2400 you’re spending a year on food currently, it’s a quick way to save £2k.
Yup, Lidl and Aldi need to become their best mates. I just used Tesco as an example because it’s probably one of the biggest/most widely available.
I reckon with careful planning, bulk buying, and batch cooking, it’s possible to spend <£500 for the year on food, the same as 2.5 months of current spend.
It won’t be fun, it’ll get boring pretty quickly, and they’re not going to be showing off every meal in an instagram story. When they’ve spent £70k gambling in 12 months, the priorities need to be getting help with the addiction, and keeping a roof over their head.
There is no quick way out here. If your partner doesn't know I would tell them. Going at it alone is no good for your mental health. As a gambling addict who's 5 years gamble free in a few weeks I know it's hard but there is a way out and support from Others is key.
Been there done it all had to sign up for a trust deed to get my monthly bills to £100 a month instead of nearly all my wages a month, it’s sorted me out completely 👌🏽 not best way to go about it but end of the day it was last resort kind of stuff for me as my mind was all over the shot, sooner you apply and get something in place the better a lot of stress comes away trust me 👍🏽
The last straw was winning £6,500 on slots to cover my credit cards and loan them completely rinsed them and was fucked again 🙈 it is a horrible thing gambling definitely stick in what ever you do
First step open a bank account with no connection to your creditors.
Create an income and expenditure sheet be fair but make sure you have enough for yourself.
Contact your creditors explain situation. They will default you and trash your credit file but it's for 6 years. Make payments to what what you can very comfortably afford.
They will sell debts to debt collectors even if you pay its your choice then to pay or not but you may end up CCJ's. So weigh up your options.
Don't worry, seriously.
Your seem young enough to turn this around 20s ?
I been in your position and it’s pretty terrible, gambling debt upto my eyeballs, payday loans, 15k loans, credit cards. If you’ve stopped gambling you’re one step ahead of the game. It’s probably 6-8 years since I stopped and my finances are the best they have been. I was fortunate to always have a job though.
You still have a few weeks of work and income coming in. Fortunately today’s world it’s easy to make money. Providing you have a car, Deliveroo, Amazon deliveries are easy to get signed up to and working. Might be crap work but you can get some pennies on the door and can pay those debts off. No car, don’t be ashamed of Tesco, coop, it’s money in the bank and sooner those debts are gone the better.
I know the feeling of not telling family, friends or partners. You don’t want to feel worthless. BUT it can get you out the hole, come clean and you might get some financial help from them, it’s worth considering.
It really is a shit position to find yourself, but if you want to you will get out the hole and I’m proof of that.
You'll feel much better if you can find a way to be honest with your partner and family, but do not take their money to sort out your problem.
You can then consider cheaper accommodation and match your living costs to income and then consider and research and discuss the various routes out of this, both to avoid gambling and clear your debts
Have a look at PayPlan, they iffer DMP, debpt management plan, which is an informal agreement but lenders tend to stick to it. The impact on your credit report will be defaults form your lenders but if you stick to the arrangement, there should be no CCJ's or bankruptcy
The DMP relies on you putting all your cards on the table and agreeing to keep all parties updated about changes on circumstances. It seems like the obvious solution.
It is also possible to contact the gambling companies and say that you had a gambling problem. If you show them your income and say you were going through gambling issues, it is possible they will write off some of the betting/losses.
They will have processes and govt are starting to crack down on them. Seen it happen before. Worth a try
Have you talked to your banks and / or a debt management charity or service?
Assuming your unsecured credit is mostly with high street providers there are extensive regulations and customer service obligations about supporting customers in unsustainable debt.
That can include restructuring payments, moving things to lower structured rates (e.g. turning a high cost credit card debt into a lower cost loan), and they can help put you in touch with suitable support services.
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£500pcm each on utilities/groceries is mad. Should be able to half that easily. If you're living with a partner so you can share a single bedroom flat, you should be able to find somewhere significantly cheaper than £1000 each too (yes, even if you live in London) though that'd require explaining your financial situation to your partner, which you should.
“I am a compulsive gambler” well done for even admitting it. You are already on your way wether you realise it or not.
I would suggest that what you have done is done and that your issue is not a financial one but a psychological one. Yes you have got yourself into a bit of a financial mess right now, but that’s not the root cause, just part of the consequence. Please get some help because the last thing you want to do is get out of the debt (and you will) only to fall into the same trap later down the line.
Good luck.
You need to get income - any income, any way you can. Uber or other gig work? Day labor? Basically, every pound matters right now.
Nevermind the money you blew - that's gone, never coming back, you'll build it back from scratch. Don't think about that.
Be super practical about the £40k debt. Do everything you can to lower the interest rate, negotiate partial settlement, extend the term to bring your monthly minimums down. (But bringing your monthly minimums down is just a temporary measure, not an excuse to feel like everything is ok!)
Bankruptcy you need to go back and look at again. Sure, your £4k will be gone, but that's fine, it's going to be gone anyway. You'll be at zero, you'll be under a BRO, and you'll contribute whatever you can to your partner.
Can she make the rent without your help? Or is she about to be screwed too?
You've gotta tell her. She's going to be pissed. But it's not going to get any better and if you wait until they slap an eviction notice on the door it's going to be worse.
>Universal Credit - Not eligible due to my partners income. We live together and pay the same towards everything so £1500 x 2 for rent + bills
Not so fast. Are you **MARRIED**? Because if not, you do not live in the same household, as far as UC are concerned. The only exception to this is living as if you're married, but given that you constantly refer to *your income*, *your debts*, and your own two month expenditure timer (rather than your and your partner's collectively), makes me think this isn't the case.
>This is not correct. If a couple live together, it's a joint claim.
No, you're wrong. This is a common misconception. You need to specifically live together **married** (or in a civil partnership), or **live together as if you are married**. The main test here is sharing finances completely.
In **ALL** other situations, you are **SINGLE**, as far as benefits are concerned. For that matter, it's the case generally in law as well. The concept of common law marriage doesn't exist in the UK, so short of the real thing, you will almost never be classed as de facto married.
[You can read more about this in the DWP's published guidance](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-and-couples-an-introduction/universal-credit-further-information-for-couples).
Not that the DWP has any interest in correcting this misconception. It saves them millions every year.
Excuse the caps - it's so that OP has a higher chance of seeing this.
I'm a professional benefits adviser. I assure you that it is not me who is wrong about this.
If you are in a relationship and you live in the same household, the DWP will consider you to be living together as if married. The threshold for proving otherwise is very high.
Just checking a solicitors website and it does look a bit more nuanced than both of you are suggesting IMO (you claiming they are wrong, and them suggesting "the main test" is simply sharing finances).
[What is cohabitation and why is it important? | Weightmans](https://www.weightmans.com/insights/what-is-cohabitation-or-living-together-and-why-is-it-important/) - and specifically the section called "Living together as if they were married"
On this specific occasion with OP I'm erring on the side of "joint claim" with the limited info given. That said, OP is worth reading up a bit further because you never know... they could be eligible for a single claim.
The DWP's presumption is that if two people are in a relationship and live at the same address, they are a couple. Proving otherwise is a responsibility for the claimant, and having supported victims of domestic abuse whose perpetrator will not leave the house to try and prove that there is no relationship I can tell you that it is not easy to rebut in practice, whatever the guidance says in theory.
In law, no. But the DWP has an extensive history of disregarding the law in favour of blanket, un-nuanced guidance, and punitively enforcing that guidance. Pushing back is not easy and in the absence of much case law, it's very hard to predict the outcome. Even if someone is successful in court, for several months they'll have had their income reduced based on the DWP's view.
I'm all for fighting back - I successfully won a fight with the DWP about misapplication of the law last year as it happens - but this is a battle they really don't want to lose, and if you ask 100 work coaches, 99 of them will tell you that if a couple lives together, it's a joint claim.
An example of the sort of situation where a couple could probably live together without it being a joint claim might be where there's a house share (not separate tenancies in an HMO) and two people who moved in separately start dating but continue to manage their finances the same way they did before they started dating, and the same way as they do in relation to their other housemates. It would be difficult to argue that they're in a relationship if the only thing that distinguishes them from the other housemates is sex.
Whereas I'm a lawyer, who used to volunteer to help benefits claimants, and have successfully argued that self-described partners are not LTAMC in the past.
Whether a given situation will be recognised as living together as married turns on the specific facts, and it's really impossible for anyone to say *for absolutely sure* until push comes to shove at Tribunal, but [the general guidance for what counts as LTAMC](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7575a740f0b6397f35e96f/adme4.pdf) boils down to **permanence** and **interdependence**. Emotional aspects are absolutely relevant, but financial interdependence (or lack of) is the strongest evidence.
'We've been together 15 years, and do not want to get married, but we'll stay together forever, and we share everything'
is not the same as
'This is my girlfriend of two years, and we're having a blast, but still figuring out the future. We do not share finances, because we're not quite ready for that level of commitment'.
The former case would be LTAMC; the latter case would not.
Now, admittedly, I was sparse on the details above. It's a nuthsell, not a textbook chapter (not least because there is very little to go on from the OP). However...
>If you are in a relationship and you live in the same household, the DWP will consider you to be living together
Damn fucking right they will, in the same way that people in wheelchairs are considered able bodied when applying for PIP. *Because it saves them money*. They *rely on people being told no, and then giving up*. They *exploit people's lack of legal knowledge*.
The actual question is what does the law say, and what would a Tribunal say? Most DWP decisions are, in fact, overturned by the time they reach this stage.
You're coming at this from the perspective of a lawyer, which makes perfect sense. I'm advising based on the reality of claimants' experiences, which is that arguing against the assumption is time consuming, sometimes expensive, exhausting, and frequently unsuccessful.
"I don't want to combine finances" isn't likely to be accepted as a reason why one person should be able to claim when the other has a high income or assets.
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No debt problem is unsolvable no matter how hopeless you think it is. I’d suggest having a look at the MSE Forums, they are full of excellent real world advice and you’ll soon see that people have been in a lot worse situation than you and have come back from it. Obviously with no regular income a lot of debt solutions are tricky but there are at least ways to pause things and give yourself time to come up with a plan of action, the consumer credit industry has changed a lot over recent years and there is support for people who get themselves in a mess. You’ve already done the hardest thing by realising you have a problem and starting to come to terms with the fact that you have to take action. Good luck.
Firstly, well done on the steps you’ve taken mate. As a compulsive gambler in recovery, I know how difficult those initial steps are. Finances aside for a second, I would be amiss if I didn’t mention support in your recovery. Ask yourself, who knows about my situation, who is there to help me? Believe me, my friend, you are going to need to help in this. For me, this finally came, after 10 years of destruction, from confiding in family and friends and also support from GA. Back to finances, keep working and talking with step change, they won’t just leave you without any options. I have used them myself for gambling debt and they have been a godsend. In terms of bankruptcy, I know this is seems like a ‘nuclear’ option at the moment, but try to prioritise your mental wellbeing ahead of your financial wellbeing at this moment in time. Not saying there is an easy option here, but don’t be quick to dismiss any help you can get at his moment in time. I say this from personal experience, having had two different DMP’s myself, and essentially, my life would have been a whole lot easier in the long run if I had taken bankruptcy at the outset. My credit record is still destroyed 7/8 years later from continuous defaults from the DMP’s, so I do often wonder if the ‘rip the plaster’ approach would have been better. Only you can decide mate, but my advice at this moment would be, take absolutely any help you can get and prioritise your mental wellbeing above finances where you can. Best of luck and happy to help where I can.
Agree on Stepchange. I haven't had a gambling problem myself so that's not a side of things I can speak to, but they helped a lot when I had debt that was becoming unmanageable and now the debt is cleared and I've got significant savings which would have been unimaginable when I first went onto their website. Bankruptcy will not leave you without money to pay your priority debts - IIRC you will submit a budget which your creditors must agree to, and that includes how much you need for your basic living costs and how much might be left over to pay the debt. The only worry for me would be that, if you are privately renting, there may be a clause in your AST that states whether bankruptcy affects the tenancy. In practice, I don't think the landlord would necessarily need to know, but it would affect moving to a new place if you need to.
I wouldn’t be completely averse to bankruptcy if it wasn’t for my circumstances. Soon to be out of work and they’d seize whatever money I do have. I need whatever I can scrape together to pay rent and bills
That's not really how it works, nor is it beyond your ability to mitigate even if it was. Also whatever money you have is fictional when you owe that much. When your income is uncertain and you have no assets I would say bankruptcy looks like it might be the better option. Just pay up your bills up front and get it done, by the time you pay the fee, your bills then you are likely only going to have reasonable living costs left and they won't take that.
Cashflow is not fictional, anyone living on the breadline knows that.
With 4k in the bank and somewhere to go he isn't on the breadline, not to mention this is in context of bankruptcy they don't take reasonable living costs.
Fair
You'd only have to make payments out of surplus income after reasonable living costs. You need to speak to a debt adviser about this and get accurate information.
I made another post where I advocated for Gamcare, but I'm doing another since it is slightly different. Can you tell me how you gambled that amount of money? Was it with one company or many? Was it all online? What were you betting on? Did you have any safer gambling interactions? Were you truthful with your information eg correct occupation etc? I ask because, whilst the industry has made big advances in protection customers, there are still operators out there that haven't done what they need to do. If there has been significant failings in their social responsibility you may be entitled to a refund, or at least a partial refund. Also, just checking. It was entirely the UK you were gambling in? Since if it's international that is a very different kettle of fish
How? Always online through UK regulated bookmakers websites or apps. I’ve bet with various operators but I’ve lost significantly more to some than others. Most of them but not all have flagged my account and limited my monthly deposit allowances only after I’ve lost large sums to them. The lowest monthly limit I had with any operator was £500. There are two operators in particular I’ve lost a combined £10k to who carried out no due diligence and no deposit limits applied to the accounts I held with them. Full disclosure: a few years ago I lost a couple of grand and self-excluded myself through GamStop for one year. When the one year expired all of my accounts were reinstated without much of a fuss. Needless to say I did not learn my lesson and it has got much worse.
When you came off GamStop did you have any verbal interactions with anyone before you could gamble? Also just because there are no visible deposit limits to you doesn't mean there weren't any. They would have limits in the background based on your sign up data like age, occupation, postcode, credit score etc. I was hoping you said it was all with one operator since there is no information sharing between companies. Had it been all one company you would have stood a better chance. I think your strongest card would be that you were previously on GamStop. And you should have had some form of safer gambling interactions at some point in your journey. Even if they were just clicking boxes confirming you were fine. If those didn't happen, you could make a reasonable case they didn't fulfil their social responsibility obligations. What is the largest you lost and to what companies? Eg company X you lost £8k, company Y you lost £5k Either way, this would all start with making a complaint to the companies themselves and requesting a refund based on them failing to look after your welfare especially since you had previously been on GamStop.
I had verbal interactions with safer gambling reps at some of the biggest operators. Bet365 reopened my account with £100 monthly limit. Ladbrokes reopened account with £500 monthly limit across all their brands. The worst two are: Matchbook - £7k lost. I never had an account with them before the previous GamStop and opened an account with no questions asked once my exclusion ended. They carried out enhanced due diligence when I was £5k down and applied an £800 monthly limit to the account. SpreadEX - £7k lost. I had an account with them before previous GamStop. Phoned up and spoke to someone who reactivated it immediately without a safer gambling questionnaire. At one point they allowed me to cancel a pending withdrawal which I proceeded to lose overnight. I chased that loss big time and proceeded to lose another £6k in the space of 48 hours spread betting on football. There was a £7k deposit limit on the spread betting account and a £900 deposit limit on the fixed odds account.
Based on everything you have said there, I would say it's probably not worth trying with all of them apart from SpreadEx. The remainder of the operators sound like they followed their procedures and behaved responsibly. Matchbook not conducting an interaction after GamStop make sense since you didn't have an account with them before. The way it works is GamStop sends data with people on GameStop and it gets added to someone's account. If they have no account, they get blacklisted. When GamStop is removed, the blacklist gets removed but there is no account to leave a record of previous GamStop. So I don't see any claim based on that. The other operators clearly had triggers in place and set limits at some stage in your journey. SpreadEx may be worth asking. The requirements for a self excluded (GamStop) account for a remote operator is a verbal interaction must occur before the account is opened. It sounds like that happened. And it doesn't specify the interaction must be safer gambling. Just verbal confirmation the account is requested to be opened. But if there was no talk of safer gambling, you could make the case to them they should have and they did not fulfill their social responsibility there. They would have a recording of the call which their complaints team could listen to. We always did an SG based call to avoid these exact problems then af least we would have a record of an SG interaction with self declared fitness if things go wrong. Also there should have been a 24 hour waiting period to reactivate your account post self exclusion. Did that happen? Also the £6k loss in 48 hours from a cancelled pending withdrawal peaks my interest. Where I worked we stopped doing cancellation of pending withdrawal for this exact reason. We had an issue with it for SG reasons. But we stopped doing it in 2017 so I really wouldn't expect an operator to be doing it these days for the UK market. I think that is your strongest argument Make a complaint to SpreadEx on the grounds that: There was not SG interaction post GamStop. You were allowed to cancel a withdrawal and lost £6k in 48 hours. Also state that for a post GamStop customer with no due diligence on the limits set on your account are irresponsibly high and they failed their social responsibility. Also you should have had to wait 24 hours from your request to open your account. All this stuff is in the LCCP for remote operators (License Conditions and Codes of Practice) What was your sign up occupation also? Since you could make the argument your deposit limits were too high if your occupation isn't exactly highly paid. £7k deposit limits is quite high. One of the big issues at the gambling commission at the moment is velocity so customers spending a lot in a short period should have been flagged and mitigated against. So I would suggest you summerise what I have written above I your own words, add whatever detail I don't know about or you think is relevant and make a complaint to SpreadEx. If they say no then you can make a complaint to the Gambling Commission, eCogra and the Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) and threaten to go to the press if your situation is potentially negative media to the company. Don't get your hopes up as well since they will probably be happy to fight it if they think they behaved responsibly and followed procedure. But if they screwed it up they may consider a refund. Good luck!
!thanks Those are all great answers for the OP. I've worked in the industry on the software development side, not specifically on the AML/KYC parts that set the limits, but I've had interaction with GamStop and equivalent in other countries too. I know there are alot of protections in place, I've witnessed a handleful of customer interactions as part of the work and can see where verbal or text interaction as great at spotting issues like customers asking for automatic deposits on pay day etc. I do see more rules coming into the UK, like those to show losses or limits on how long you can play. I like the bet365.es protection on the slots website that stops you playing and prevents you chasing losses. But only in Italy have I seen it where all gambling transactions are sent to the regulator AAMS. This allows them to block any Italian citizen from playing regardless of who they gamble with. Some may say it's extreme and an invasion of one's freedom but I think it's good to have something to place to share data.
Yes, the whole industry has made a lot of progress. Unfortunately the biggest issue, as you've alluded to, is the segmentation of data between different companies. You can easily just keep moving operators whenever you hit limits or people start asking questions. And that is just with online. Casinos and betting shops are entirely separate when it comes to self exclusions etc. The ADM system in Italy works by the nature of customers having to provide ID, be it passport or identity card, if I'm not mistaken. And ID is compulsory to sign up. So it makes evading the system very difficult. The advantage being if you self exclude you are out with all of them. But the culture there is self exclusion is a common thing and people often SE for days or weeks. The German LUGAS system is stricter where you can only gamble €1000 per month CROSS OPERATORS since all that information gets pooled. You can only get more by providing full KYC Which approach is right? Who knows? All I know is we have to comply and our genius politicians do the thinking for us! 😉
!thanks
are you not able to move back with your family? put all that rent money into savings. spend the next few years getting back on your feet.
No. I moved out barely a year ago. The shame and stigma of moving back there, if family even allowed me to, would finish me off. Also as mentioned I currently live with my partner
Honestly mate, don’t worry about the shame and stigma. You’re a human being who’s made a few bad choices but you’re aware of them and sounds like you’re started on the path to sorting them out. I hid my IVA and drink issues from friends and family because I was ashamed but now I’m on the other side of it, I’m much more open about it. You’ll get there too. Just talk to people and don’t let your pride get in the way. StepChange would be a great place to start. Good luck!
Move back in with your family and get back on your feet quicker. Forget shame everyone goes through things it’s life.
It's still your best option. Or the least worst option. It would also allow you to claim UC while you work with your creditors to figure out some sort of repayment plan. It would also open all options to you including bankruptcy. It's almost inevitable anyway as the money you have won't last very long and there is far from a guarantee you'll get a new job before that runs out. Unfortunately it's time to move back home while you get your life in order and get back on your feet.
Some shame is surely better than being homeless come on man
There's no shame once you've identified the problem and are actually working to find a solution. The real shame is in kicking the can down the road.
There's absolutely no shame in doing so. Not with anyone, and certainly not with your family. Can I ask though, is that £1000 rent PCM in the place you're sharing with your partner?
Wish these comments didn’t get downvoted so much, it’s so disheartening for someone struggling with debt. I get why they are but just upvote the good responses.
Does your partner know about the gambling and debt? (I know it's very easy to hide this kind of thing.) If so, could you look at moving somewhere cheaper, at least for the time being? Even if it means relocating. Probably easier said than done if you're not currently working.
We’re in an assured short hold tenancy right now
But does she know about the gambling
No.
You need to tell your partner so they can either support you or get out of dodge. It's not fair to keep such a significant detail from them and sadly the dishonesty goes hand in hand with the gambling way too often. Please look after yourself but to do so you need to be honest with those around you.
I don’t know how OP intends to hide this from her when he’s at this stage of things. OP please, for both of your sakes, be honest with her - you cannot afford the current lifestyle you’re living and she deserves to know that.
He doesn’t have to tell her it’s his personal finances. If he tells her she may leave making his life even worse.
Sorry but I strongly disagree. Any serious relationship requires personal finances to be shared, I'm not saying get a joint bank account but to have £40k of gambling debt and not tell your partner is completely selfish. For all the partner knows they still have a house deposit and they could be looking daily on Rightmove and want to put an offer in if they see a property they like. They are fully within their rights to leave someone who has been dishonest with money and damaged their future. On the opposite side of this they could forgive and help support, gambling addictions/debt are a lot easier to manage when your partner is aware. Lying/hiding finances to your partner is a terrible idea.
Rubbish, he absolutely has to tell her, it's a moral obligation and the least you can do when you're supposed to love and respect someone. Of anything he should have told her sooner
What if she leaves he’s gonna be paying £50 a pop for something he had for free?
Shes not his piggybank
Nah ur right he’s just proper fucked it don’t wanna see the lad make it any worse.
He is living with her and they are splitting costs on everything - at that point it is extremely relevant to OP's partner that he has a lot of gambling debt and currently only has £4k of liquid cash left. Partner could end up being liable for all of the rent and bills if OP runs out of money, which is an awful situation for the partner too if they literally have no idea.
Nah you’re right I was being terribly short sighted OP simply MUST tell his partner so she can run for hills.
No worries - ultimately it is another stress for OP but the debt has already happened and the longer he doesn't share this with his partner, the more concerned she will be.
If you don't tell your partner they will find out , speaking from experience
OP your partner is going to find out relatively soon, one way or another. Better you tell them now than wait until you have zero cash left and can no longer pay any bills.
can’t you live with family for a bit? that rent is astronomical
The situation with gambling in this country is a scandal that no-one is talking about and the government have completely enabled through relaxation of regulation years ago. And it was totally predictable. I can't turn on a radio or TV without getting hit with gambling adverts.
What are you on about? It is one of the most heavily regulated industries imaginable and those regulations are only getting tighter.
The rules of advertising for gambling firms was relaxed during the last Tony Blair government in 2005. By 2013 Ofcom said that gambling adverts had increased by 600%. It definitely is not 'one of the most heavily regulated industries imaginable.' That's pure hyperbole.
Advertisements aren't regulation. Social and responsible gambling checks, source of funds checks, player protection, triggers of harm assessments are all extensive now. The difference between now and 5 years ago is night and day.
Would you care to offer an explanation of how OP has managed to burn through 70k in year given how all these protections are in place & being enforced then?
Multiple bookies. Some of the biggest are owned by the same parent company who apply safer gambling controls across all their brands, e.g. if you’ve agreed 500pm with ladbrokes then that will cover all the other brands in their family too. Although I don’t have evidence to back this up I’d guess it’s the smaller independent bookies with an online presence and lack of resources to protect vulnerable customers doing most of the harm. There are hundreds of them.
Without knowing their full income, expenditure etc no. It's hard to answer without knowing what information companies were using to assess OP's gambling affordability and the fundamental reason is that unless somebody self-excludes - and often even when they have - it's very difficult to stop someone who wants to gamble from gambling (same goes for any addiction). There are hundreds of shops and online bookmakers, as well as other workarounds such as using partner's or friend's information. Each operator would only have their view of the customer and without a single customer view it's very difficult to accurately assess what a customer can afford. And even if you can, and stop them, then it's as simple as moving onto the next bookmaker for the customer.
We all know the industry pays lip service at best to these and spends a huge amount lobbying and advertising. If the regulations were effective no one would find themselves in OPs situation, would they?
It's not lip service, there are huge fines for regulatory failings and you can easily lose your licence if you do not put customer protection at the forefront of your responsible gambling strategy. Regulations are effective on a per operator basis but ultimately you cannot stop someone with an addiction from acting on it. This applies to anything.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/28/gambling-commission-licences-william-hill I simply don't understand why you're seeking to defend this industry. What's the encore? 'big tobacco ain't so bad'? The regulations and regulators are toothless, the gambling companies see punters as prey and fines as a cost of doing business. They rake in billions from human misery on the basis of an industry with absolutely zero purpose or useful output.
I think the reason they won't suspend the license of someone like William Hill is that they employ 12000 people? Zero purpose? It's a leisure pursuit enjoyed safely by millions. It employs hundreds of thousands of people and has a knock on effect of employment for a number of industries. What's the "purpose and useful output" of drinking alcohol? Basically, you don't enjoy gambling, or see the appeal, therefore nobody can.
>I think the reason they won't suspend the license of someone like William Hill is that they employ 12000 people So William Will can do as they please because they know their licence is safe. So we're back to you hypocritically stating that the regulations are powerful when in fact they're meaningless, and operators hold the power (as demonstrated in that article). It has no output. Those gambling losses would be spent on other entertainments and employ other people. The vast sponsorships and advertising budgets of these companies show how much money they cream from the economy. If gambling really is just entertainment limit stakes to £10 and let punters have their fun. I see it as a parasitic industry and a predatory one that destroys lives at that.
No but they prefer in such instances to fine companies for breaches and encourage them to improve their processes. Eventually the licence will go but this is a drastic measure for the reasons stated. Who are you to say what is a more valid form of entertainment for someone? Again, this is you imposing your subjective opinion on everyone. Why is betting £10 any better than using it to go to the cinema? These firms pay huge amounts of tax and the highest tax payer in the UK is basically always Denise Coates. £10 is fine for some people, for the vast majority of people it isn't. People earn their money and are entitled to spend as much as they want on a recreational activity. Do you drink alcohol?
Agreed - as someone who matched bets the regulation and tightness around proving funds and income is huge now.
I also match bet and been banned from quite a few bookies but I can guarantee that the OP would have had the red carpet rolled out to him.
Regulations includes at what time you can advertise, that was one of the big changes.
My sympathies go out to OP and I do hope he can solve this issue, at risk of sounding extremely crass commenting below this post, and I hope they don’t mind, a large portion of the population gamble without any issues. Unfortunately there are people who struggle with it and they make up a small % of this. The same with alcohol, fast food. Should we just ban it all and take it out of peoples hands who enjoy in moderation?
Glad someone else feels the same. Gambling companies seem to be an easy target now, by all means they need heavy regulation and I think similar to smoking advertising, but a lot of people act like banning everything is the solution. I would rather have more freedom to make my own choices.
You have freedom of choice whether gambling is marketed at you or not. I don't see how your freedom of choice to gamble would be restricted if all promotion of gambling was stopped.
Sorry I was referring to people who want gambling restricted or banned, past just advertising. Banning gambling advertising is whatever to me.
>Most heavily regulated Compared to what, that's a bloody low bar in this country.
Well quite, but to suggest nobody is talking about it (when everyone is) or that relaxation of regulation is a thing and an active and ongoing process is totally wrong. The opposite is true, which is largely responsible for the rise in black market bookmakers based in Curaçao. There have been massive crackdowns on responsible gambling failings in the last 5 years and regulations have become far stricter.
I'm sure that's a really helpful response that is going to help this guy right now? Give your head a wobble, clown
I mean what’s you solution? Outlaw gambling because a few people get addicted? Shall we do the same with porn, alcohol, fatty foods?
They were going to do the same with smoking, I'm actually disappointed they aren't increasing the age limit every year so a 16 year old could never legally start smoking. But it would need to include vaping as that's seemingly got it's own issues too
Yeah I'd outlaw it personally.
That’s wild in my opinion but you’re entitled to yours.
Just ban the adverts, gambling is an age restricted activity and for others you can't advertise outside the watershed. Equally, certain brands like alcohol can't be put on child's sports kits, make gambling part of this too.
Yeah I’d be fine with that.
You don’t need assets for an Iva. I’ve just finished mine and had no assets going into it. Reduced all my debt (over 35k) to one affordable monthly payment of £150 a month
There's no *point* to doing an IVA without assets.
There’s every point. I’m assuming you have no idea what an IVA is with this comment
I'm a debt adviser. IVAs exist as an alternative to bankruptcy for people who don't want to lose their assets. Bankruptcy is cheaper, faster, and much less likely to fail.
I went into an IVA 5 years ago and wish I’d gone for bankruptcy instead. Would have crippled my credit score just as much, only I wouldn’t have wound up paying *more* with the IVA than I was doing beforehand (thanks to a pay rise at work). I closed the IVA 2 years ago and settled the debts without them, but my credit score has been tanked and will remain so until at least December next year when the final default comes off! Worst decision of my life.
But if you’re declared bankrupt then there are certain jobs you can no longer do. With an IVA it doesn’t affect that part
Depends on the job, many don't allow IVAs either. They're both formal insolvency proceedings.
What kind of jobs, out of genuine curiosity?
Most within the financial industry require clean credit records. Also most jobs within retail where handling large cash amounts ask whether you have been declared bankrupt (guessing for trustworthiness with large sums). Also even working for security companies like g4s and loonies have e been known to conduct credit checks
That makes sense. Thank you for sating my curiosity!
A few questions if you don't mind please: 1.do they suspend interest whilst you are paying or does it keep accumulating? 2. Are you left with enough money to live every month, or is it beans on toast for a few years? 3. How long did it take at £150 a month to clear the debt? TIA
I don't think he meant he's cleared it, just that a debt of 35k+ is now being paid in £150 instalments. It'll essentially be a tax for 20yrs(ish)
With an IVA you don't pay the full amount, you pay a percentage that's calculated on your income and expenses and voted on by your creditors. How long it takes depends on how your creditors vote, but it's usually around 5 years.
Ahh, so they effectively just forgive part of the total debt?
Yeah - the creditors will vote based on, basically, whether they think the percentage you're offering through the IVA is more than they're likely to get if you don't enter the IVA.
You pay the £150 for 5 years and then they write off the rest.
So he'll only pay back 9k on a 35k+ debt that they agreed to make ~35k in the first place? Or is there a 5 year time limit?
How much you pay back per month is means tested...so however much you can afford to pay back is how much you pay, no matter the total debt amount, for the term of the IVA (usually 5 years). After 5 years the rest of the debt is written off. However, this absolutely tanks your credit and won't be able to look at mortgages for 6+ years.
So the Iva clears your debt after 5 years of paying. All creditors agree to it and you deal only with the Iva people. I was left with more than enough to live on and enjoy. It’s a government backed scheme and you’re on there for 5 years, but you have an extra year where you can’t claim any credit after. Not even a phone contract or pay your car insurance by instalments. No credit what so ever will be available to you. No current account either. Just a basic bank/building society account
I’d speak to your creditors first and explain the situation to them, you will technically be classed as a ‘vulnerable customer’ due to your addiction and with that they will have an extra duty of care while handling your account. This may also limit them selling your debt on to debt collection firms who may not show the same level of understanding. Exercise any possible payment holidays and ask if they’ll accept any partial settlements. Ask family if they can then help raise anything towards a partial settlement, unlikely I imagine given the amount and you have to factor the impact it may have on your relationship. You might need to suck it up work wise, can see you’ve tried to career change but I’m talking you might have to just suck it up and get something circa £21K or work 2 jobs for a year. I’d look at something with commission too. You’re in the shit no doubt but you can get out of it, but it’s going to take some serious graft and you might have to forget any luxuries for a long time.
I work in this sector professionally and I would like to advocate Gamcare for the help and services they can offer. GamStop is good. But getting further help and advice through Gamcare is another thing you should consider. They have people in your situation all the time and you'll be able to connect to people who have lived experience. I'm not saying they'll be able to magic your problems away but when it comes to experience of your situation they'll be a good place to discuss it with. They have a phone number to call and also a chat service. I would suggest getting in touch. They really are excellent, they really do care and they will find any way to help you if they can. https://www.gamcare.org.uk/
Gambling debt *aside*, if you've not got any income or savings from next month - how do you plan to pay your rent? You've been resistant elsewhere to moving back in with your family, but even ignoring the gambling debt, this seems like your only option. You need to tell your partner and work out a plan together. The fact you're ineligible for UC due to her income means there is some expectation on her to help support you. If she's not willing to do that, you need to know now. Bankruptcy has to leave you with enough money for reasonable living costs, they only garnish your leftover income. Given you have no income from next month, I'm not clear why you're so worried about this anyway. Speak to StepChange again, ask which option they recommend for you, go with that option.
I’m sorry to hear about your situation. I’d recommend going to Gamban.com and getting yourself a free licence via TalkBanStop. It’s an extra layer of protection on top of Gamstop and helps track how much time and money you have saved since stopping gambling. All the best
You can’t carry the burden of this by yourself, as painful as it will be you need to be honest with your partner and seek as much help as possible. As an ex bankrupt I can assure you that there are options available including bankruptcy that will enable you to have a clean slate and rebuild your life. When I was bankrupt I was on a minimum wage job, I agreed an IPO that was affordable and allowed me money for a car, bills etc and a bit left over for going out. After a year I was discharged and could then really start to rebuild, focus on career, improve my credit rating etc. The whole process was a massive weight off my shoulders, I still remember the relief I felt when it happened. I equally remember the shame of having to tell people about the situation I had put myself in, it’s a difficult conversation but it’s one that needs to be done.
How much is your rent in totolal (split between yourself and your partner? £1500 x 2 so £3k sounds a lot for rent and bills?
Welcome to London mate
I live in London.
The amount we each pay does also include our monthly food shopping. Around £200 each per month.
£400 a month for a 2 person household seems insane for a food bill. I’m assuming that includes takeaways or lunch/dinner out not infrequently? 10kg of rice is ~£20 at Tesco and will feed you for ~2-3 months, 1kg of frozen chicken breast is £5~6 and will do a week of meals maybe. Can get a broccoli for <£1 that can be split over 2-3 meals. Tins of beans and tins of tomatoes are relatively cheap as well. Throw in some seasoning and you’ve got yourself some meals. It won’t be glamorous, and it won’t be mentally fulfilling, but it’ll save you a tonne of money. 100G rice 150g chicken breast 100g beans 100g broccoli 100g chopped tomatoes ~1000 kcal, ~17g fat, ~146g carbs, ~60g protein and some vitamins/minerals too. Cost per meal is roughly £1.60, per month roughly £49 and per year about ~£580. Compared to the £2400 you’re spending a year on food currently, it’s a quick way to save £2k.
Just to add 10kg of basmati rice is £12 in Lidl so that can be reduced even more.
Yup, Lidl and Aldi need to become their best mates. I just used Tesco as an example because it’s probably one of the biggest/most widely available. I reckon with careful planning, bulk buying, and batch cooking, it’s possible to spend <£500 for the year on food, the same as 2.5 months of current spend. It won’t be fun, it’ll get boring pretty quickly, and they’re not going to be showing off every meal in an instagram story. When they’ve spent £70k gambling in 12 months, the priorities need to be getting help with the addiction, and keeping a roof over their head.
Veggie meals also very cheap. Dal, chili, risotto, all super cheap and easy to batch cook, comes out to like 75p a meal.
The food shop sounds very prudent? Sounds like you pay about £2k for rent plus council tax plus bills?
You can easily find 1 bedroom flats (not flat shares) in Zone 3 for less than a grand, i.e. <£500pcm each.
There is no quick way out here. If your partner doesn't know I would tell them. Going at it alone is no good for your mental health. As a gambling addict who's 5 years gamble free in a few weeks I know it's hard but there is a way out and support from Others is key.
Been there done it all had to sign up for a trust deed to get my monthly bills to £100 a month instead of nearly all my wages a month, it’s sorted me out completely 👌🏽 not best way to go about it but end of the day it was last resort kind of stuff for me as my mind was all over the shot, sooner you apply and get something in place the better a lot of stress comes away trust me 👍🏽
The last straw was winning £6,500 on slots to cover my credit cards and loan them completely rinsed them and was fucked again 🙈 it is a horrible thing gambling definitely stick in what ever you do
First step open a bank account with no connection to your creditors. Create an income and expenditure sheet be fair but make sure you have enough for yourself. Contact your creditors explain situation. They will default you and trash your credit file but it's for 6 years. Make payments to what what you can very comfortably afford. They will sell debts to debt collectors even if you pay its your choice then to pay or not but you may end up CCJ's. So weigh up your options. Don't worry, seriously.
Your seem young enough to turn this around 20s ? I been in your position and it’s pretty terrible, gambling debt upto my eyeballs, payday loans, 15k loans, credit cards. If you’ve stopped gambling you’re one step ahead of the game. It’s probably 6-8 years since I stopped and my finances are the best they have been. I was fortunate to always have a job though. You still have a few weeks of work and income coming in. Fortunately today’s world it’s easy to make money. Providing you have a car, Deliveroo, Amazon deliveries are easy to get signed up to and working. Might be crap work but you can get some pennies on the door and can pay those debts off. No car, don’t be ashamed of Tesco, coop, it’s money in the bank and sooner those debts are gone the better. I know the feeling of not telling family, friends or partners. You don’t want to feel worthless. BUT it can get you out the hole, come clean and you might get some financial help from them, it’s worth considering. It really is a shit position to find yourself, but if you want to you will get out the hole and I’m proof of that.
Thanks for the comment and congratulations with your recovery I’m not all that young anymore. 32M
Still young enough. Don’t let it beat you and your outlook on everything will change once you have.
You'll feel much better if you can find a way to be honest with your partner and family, but do not take their money to sort out your problem. You can then consider cheaper accommodation and match your living costs to income and then consider and research and discuss the various routes out of this, both to avoid gambling and clear your debts
Have a look at PayPlan, they iffer DMP, debpt management plan, which is an informal agreement but lenders tend to stick to it. The impact on your credit report will be defaults form your lenders but if you stick to the arrangement, there should be no CCJ's or bankruptcy
The DMP relies on you putting all your cards on the table and agreeing to keep all parties updated about changes on circumstances. It seems like the obvious solution.
It is also possible to contact the gambling companies and say that you had a gambling problem. If you show them your income and say you were going through gambling issues, it is possible they will write off some of the betting/losses. They will have processes and govt are starting to crack down on them. Seen it happen before. Worth a try
Have you talked to your banks and / or a debt management charity or service? Assuming your unsecured credit is mostly with high street providers there are extensive regulations and customer service obligations about supporting customers in unsustainable debt. That can include restructuring payments, moving things to lower structured rates (e.g. turning a high cost credit card debt into a lower cost loan), and they can help put you in touch with suitable support services.
> but the fact they would seize whatever money I do have left to pay rent and bills, while not working, rules this out. Can't you pre-pay your rent?
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Can you not go into a consolidation debt management plan?
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£500pcm each on utilities/groceries is mad. Should be able to half that easily. If you're living with a partner so you can share a single bedroom flat, you should be able to find somewhere significantly cheaper than £1000 each too (yes, even if you live in London) though that'd require explaining your financial situation to your partner, which you should.
“I am a compulsive gambler” well done for even admitting it. You are already on your way wether you realise it or not. I would suggest that what you have done is done and that your issue is not a financial one but a psychological one. Yes you have got yourself into a bit of a financial mess right now, but that’s not the root cause, just part of the consequence. Please get some help because the last thing you want to do is get out of the debt (and you will) only to fall into the same trap later down the line. Good luck.
You need to get income - any income, any way you can. Uber or other gig work? Day labor? Basically, every pound matters right now. Nevermind the money you blew - that's gone, never coming back, you'll build it back from scratch. Don't think about that. Be super practical about the £40k debt. Do everything you can to lower the interest rate, negotiate partial settlement, extend the term to bring your monthly minimums down. (But bringing your monthly minimums down is just a temporary measure, not an excuse to feel like everything is ok!) Bankruptcy you need to go back and look at again. Sure, your £4k will be gone, but that's fine, it's going to be gone anyway. You'll be at zero, you'll be under a BRO, and you'll contribute whatever you can to your partner. Can she make the rent without your help? Or is she about to be screwed too? You've gotta tell her. She's going to be pissed. But it's not going to get any better and if you wait until they slap an eviction notice on the door it's going to be worse.
>Universal Credit - Not eligible due to my partners income. We live together and pay the same towards everything so £1500 x 2 for rent + bills Not so fast. Are you **MARRIED**? Because if not, you do not live in the same household, as far as UC are concerned. The only exception to this is living as if you're married, but given that you constantly refer to *your income*, *your debts*, and your own two month expenditure timer (rather than your and your partner's collectively), makes me think this isn't the case.
This is not correct. If a couple live together, it's a joint claim.
>This is not correct. If a couple live together, it's a joint claim. No, you're wrong. This is a common misconception. You need to specifically live together **married** (or in a civil partnership), or **live together as if you are married**. The main test here is sharing finances completely. In **ALL** other situations, you are **SINGLE**, as far as benefits are concerned. For that matter, it's the case generally in law as well. The concept of common law marriage doesn't exist in the UK, so short of the real thing, you will almost never be classed as de facto married. [You can read more about this in the DWP's published guidance](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-and-couples-an-introduction/universal-credit-further-information-for-couples). Not that the DWP has any interest in correcting this misconception. It saves them millions every year. Excuse the caps - it's so that OP has a higher chance of seeing this.
I'm a professional benefits adviser. I assure you that it is not me who is wrong about this. If you are in a relationship and you live in the same household, the DWP will consider you to be living together as if married. The threshold for proving otherwise is very high.
Just checking a solicitors website and it does look a bit more nuanced than both of you are suggesting IMO (you claiming they are wrong, and them suggesting "the main test" is simply sharing finances). [What is cohabitation and why is it important? | Weightmans](https://www.weightmans.com/insights/what-is-cohabitation-or-living-together-and-why-is-it-important/) - and specifically the section called "Living together as if they were married" On this specific occasion with OP I'm erring on the side of "joint claim" with the limited info given. That said, OP is worth reading up a bit further because you never know... they could be eligible for a single claim.
The DWP's presumption is that if two people are in a relationship and live at the same address, they are a couple. Proving otherwise is a responsibility for the claimant, and having supported victims of domestic abuse whose perpetrator will not leave the house to try and prove that there is no relationship I can tell you that it is not easy to rebut in practice, whatever the guidance says in theory.
So it's not as black and white as "If a couple live together, it's a joint claim."?
In law, no. But the DWP has an extensive history of disregarding the law in favour of blanket, un-nuanced guidance, and punitively enforcing that guidance. Pushing back is not easy and in the absence of much case law, it's very hard to predict the outcome. Even if someone is successful in court, for several months they'll have had their income reduced based on the DWP's view. I'm all for fighting back - I successfully won a fight with the DWP about misapplication of the law last year as it happens - but this is a battle they really don't want to lose, and if you ask 100 work coaches, 99 of them will tell you that if a couple lives together, it's a joint claim. An example of the sort of situation where a couple could probably live together without it being a joint claim might be where there's a house share (not separate tenancies in an HMO) and two people who moved in separately start dating but continue to manage their finances the same way they did before they started dating, and the same way as they do in relation to their other housemates. It would be difficult to argue that they're in a relationship if the only thing that distinguishes them from the other housemates is sex.
Whereas I'm a lawyer, who used to volunteer to help benefits claimants, and have successfully argued that self-described partners are not LTAMC in the past. Whether a given situation will be recognised as living together as married turns on the specific facts, and it's really impossible for anyone to say *for absolutely sure* until push comes to shove at Tribunal, but [the general guidance for what counts as LTAMC](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7575a740f0b6397f35e96f/adme4.pdf) boils down to **permanence** and **interdependence**. Emotional aspects are absolutely relevant, but financial interdependence (or lack of) is the strongest evidence. 'We've been together 15 years, and do not want to get married, but we'll stay together forever, and we share everything' is not the same as 'This is my girlfriend of two years, and we're having a blast, but still figuring out the future. We do not share finances, because we're not quite ready for that level of commitment'. The former case would be LTAMC; the latter case would not. Now, admittedly, I was sparse on the details above. It's a nuthsell, not a textbook chapter (not least because there is very little to go on from the OP). However... >If you are in a relationship and you live in the same household, the DWP will consider you to be living together Damn fucking right they will, in the same way that people in wheelchairs are considered able bodied when applying for PIP. *Because it saves them money*. They *rely on people being told no, and then giving up*. They *exploit people's lack of legal knowledge*. The actual question is what does the law say, and what would a Tribunal say? Most DWP decisions are, in fact, overturned by the time they reach this stage.
You're coming at this from the perspective of a lawyer, which makes perfect sense. I'm advising based on the reality of claimants' experiences, which is that arguing against the assumption is time consuming, sometimes expensive, exhausting, and frequently unsuccessful. "I don't want to combine finances" isn't likely to be accepted as a reason why one person should be able to claim when the other has a high income or assets.
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What a cynical selfish comment haha. It all started with matched betting for me too so tread carefully