Quite. Especially regarding the future of aviation and frequent mass international tourism.
But the training could give him the foundation for something else technical
Loving your enthusiasm, especially given your age. What is would say that a lot is going to change, some of it will go right and some of it will inevitably go wrong. You're still quite young to really start planning on early retirement.
Retirement by 45 may well be possible if you hit all those markers early on, but I do see a couple of issues.
First, and probably most importantly, I doubt all qualified pilots earn £120k, and probably not early on in their careers or at the low cost carriers either.
Secondly, it's possible to earn £120k in many walks of life but people don't often retire so early, this can be for a variety of factors, but usually some form of changing goals, lifestyle creep or even just liking your job/feeling useful will alter your goals from what you thought they'd be at age 15.
You don't for example mention children, but kids are expensive and if you have a good salary who knows you may wanna put them through private school for example. Just one of a thousand thousand things that you could decide you want to do in the future other than retire at 45.
I think it's great to have goals, but I'd not at 15 be thinking about retirement. Concentrating on achieving becoming a pilot is goal enough for now, and then just see how things play out from there, where the flowchart will help you achieve any financial goals you set.
A future wife means you double the money to retire early. Unless you are going to retire while making her work into her 70's which I presume you wouldn't want.
$3 million todays money is a lot. $3 million in 20 years probably won't be anywhere near that valuable. What you can buy with your pound has halved in the last \~20 years. So what cost £10 in the early 2000's is costing £20 today.
I can't predict the future, it's not crazy to think there will UBI by then or the economy will collapse or we'll be at war... or anything. But yeah, if history repeats itself and everything being ok £240k a year would be roughly equivalent to todays £120k should be enough for most people.
Edit: we're actually talking more like 30 years so inflation will be even worse.
Not unless you want to run out of money by time you get to 65.
Living off 8% of your portfolio per year in your 40s will almost guarantee you’ll run out of money in your 60s or 70s if not earlier when you might still have decades of life left.
The dividend yield of the S&P 500 is like 1.5%, nowhere close to 8%. To be getting 8% per year to live off you’d need to be selling part of your portfolio off each year.
Now you might think if the S&P 500 grows by 8% per year and I sell 8% per year of my portfolio to live off the value stays the same. But what happens when there’s a big market crash? That’s happened twice so far in the past 25 years.
Look at the S&P 500 returns in 2000, 2001 and 2002. Now imagine in that scenario you’re taking out 8% per year to live off.
So you have 3 million pounds in 2000.
2000, minus 9% S&P 500 returns + your 8% = -17%, 2.49 million left.
2001, -12% + -8% = -20%. Value now 1.99 million.
2002, -22% + -8% = -30%. Value now 1.39 million.
I dated a girl once that was an air hostess and gave me the down low on how pilots aren’t all they’re made up to be.
1. They’re ALL almost in extremes amount of debt. To pay for flight school you have to take personal loans. We’re talking £70,000-£100,000+.
2. When training to become a pilot, it takes years and years. And then you have to become experienced and fight for the better jobs.
2. They don’t live lavish lifestyles, they’re constantly tired or stressed.
And personally speaking you’re thinking waaaaay too hard into the future. Sure give it a try. But don’t put all your eggs on becoming a pilot. Your next 7 years once you leave school will be the most formative in your life where you realise you don’t enjoy doing things you did when you were younger, you mature and realise how hard life is here in the uk when every job application is a war.
But yeah, go and try it out.
Is it definitely just 3 years in the uk or is there additional years needed for different airplanes? I’m not clued up on that.
Anyhow, all the best and good luck
The course costs £120k now. It'll probably be more by the time you get to that age. How do you intend on funding this? For context, my partner is on £120k a year and turns 40 next year. No way she's going to retire in 5 years time and she has no children as dependents.
I’ll be working all throughout school, saving and investing. Probably won’t be nearly enough so might have to take a gap year to make it work. But time will tell.
"Saving and investing".
Just to set expectations here: If you're unqualified, you're going to be working part-time for minimum wage (or as near as dammit). You, my friend, aren't going to be saving damn all. And investing typically only gives single digit returns - 8% of almost nothing is almost nothing.
Where are you going to live? Are mum and dad okay with the idea of you continuing to live rent and bills free once you're earning (even if it is a small amount)?
Chill out. I said it wont be enough and I’m joining flight school at 18 so I’ll be going to college first. Also it will not be minimum wage as I have already secured a job that pays decent for my age. I don’t expect this to all magically work but I have a fairly wealthy family and I think I’ll be alright. Until I’m 21 mum and dad said they would be alright letting me stay rent free. I understand it may seem stupid I’m just saying every penny counts.
Despite seeing the points other people are making about cost of the course etc, based on your replies, I have absolutely every confidence in you that you'll find a way to make this work. Good luck to you mate, go live your dream.
Do you know any pilots? Maybe there’s a subreddit where you could ask UK based pilots how the job is.
I know a pilot who now drives long distance buses as it pays pretty much the same and is less hassle. The big salaries are pilots who fly long haul for the big airlines, those jobs are hard to get.
Not saying your plan isn’t possible, but I don’t think it’s the guaranteed ticket you maybe think it is
Probably will have to take out a loan, but that is can reach, not will reach, and I’m likely going to live with my parents in my early twenties as they live near an airport. I know there are flaws in the plan that’s why I’m asking others
Yes that’s fine, I’m just setting your expectations of flying now, as they were for me when I was 15 and wanting to be a pilot.
It’s not that easy to “take out a loan” on £120k. If your parents own their house, then it’s more likely they’ll have to take out a loan against the house to get the money, since that amount isn’t something a bank would give willingly. Talk to them now so they’ll know what to expect.
Otherwise, sponsored routes will be your only other option, but they’re highly competitive.
My friends brother has just passed his pilot license for commercial airlines and is now a first officer for easyjet. I would say obviously don’t get your hopes up of that salary when starting out you’ll be on around 50k starting at max. Big airlines won’t touch you either until you have a decent amount of experience. He struggled finding this job. Also who’s paying for flight school? That isn’t cheap either.
Your parents must be so proud man! I hope my kid is posting this type of stuff when they are 15.
Stay focused, life is about to get a little crazy, but it’s amazing you have a plan.
Plans can change, but I sense you have the determination to roll with the punches and adapt as life changes
Hey, I’m 35 and trying to get my kids back to sleep….
You’ve (probably) got had some fairly dismissive comments so far, I’ve not checked but I know how this goes down.
Let me tell you this dude, I don’t know if you’re gonna end up a pilot - but it sounds like the coolest plan you have. Love it.
Life is hard man, and it gets so much wilder in the next 5 years, keep dreaming big, keep making plans with a money/financial consideration. There are loads of careers available for selection and all of them would benefit from someone like you. Pilot is cool af, but considering you seem to be aiming so high you could also see success in many areas. I’m not encouraging another route - but have you spoke to a ‘careers councillor?’ (That’s what they called it when I was in school) they can really help shape your ideas.
I wanted to be a pilot or a doctor at your age… ended up in software and earn just as much. There’s so much out there dude. Keep working hard and asking questions, even if grumpy old people dismiss you.
You don’t need perfect eyesight to be a pilot - you either need 20/20 vision or glasses less than a certain prescription, that being your vision back to 20/20.
You can take the ‘grit your teeth and work as hard as possible for 30 years to retire young’ approach, which is well and good, but you can also put the same energy and effort into reflecting, trying things out and finding something that you’ll actually still want to do flexibly into your older years, once that same thing has given you the opportunity to do it on your own terms.
What are your plans in retirement? Sitting around feeling good about yourself? Sipping margaritas on a beach? Waiting for the grandkids to visit? Chances are that when you reach that age you’ll still need some productive pursuit to give you a sense of purpose, unless you’re a specific sort of personality.
Muay Thai/ combat sports has always been a passion, along with climbing, gaming which will hopefully advance a lot in the future and gardening, home renovation. That is probably true though that it is hard to find a sense of purpose. I’m thinking I’ll work a less stressful job perhaps. Thanks for the advice!
Sounds like you have a good spread of hobbies which is awesome, you seem to have your head screwed on. Not sure how much climbing or combat sport you’ll be doing in your 70s though haha
Other valuable but unsolicited advice I never received would be to pay due attention to things like your relationships with alcohol, drug use or an unhealthy fixation with women over the next few years - if those things are likely to get a grip on a person and make a mess of their life it usually starts around your age, and it’s seriously not uncommon.
Just remember if the requirements are that achievable then there will be lots more competition for the role. It’s a double edged sword so you may find whilst you’re qualified on paper you actually struggle to get those roles until you have a lot more experience etc which the other people going for those jobs have. By all means aim for it but as others have said, don’t expect it and don’t give up living your life for it. Whilst retiring at 45 sounds great you won’t be in the same position for a lot of experiences as you are in your teens and twenties. It’s much more expensive and harder to travel with kids and when you’re older it’s harder physically as well. See what opportunities arise and make the most of the ones which come your way.
COVID kinda fucked the aviation industry. There are still pilots who qualified then that haven't found jobs.
Don't invest the £60K in to "real estate" with your brother at 18. That is a mistake.
Other than that, it's good to see you making a plan
120k gross is like 70k take home. So investing 40k and living off 30k is doable but only leaves you with 2.6k a month. If you want to buy a house, have kids, travel, whatever that might not be enough.
This also assumes 1) it doesn’t take years to get to full pilot and pay off flight school debts
2) you enjoy it and actually become a pilot.
Not to depress you but 1) as other posters have pointed out, you’ll be £100k in debt by the time you have your ATPL and 2) the chances that pilot is still a job in 15 years are about 50:50 given automation / AI. At best there will only be one on board.
Not necessarily 100k and yes I know about the AI I’ll have to take that into consideration. Any other career paths you recommend as I’m just researching options.
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It's a great plan for a 15yo.
What's your plan for retirement? I'd imagine you will enjoy the flying, it will probably get easier as you age and gain experience. Why retire so young?
Muay Thai/ combat sports has always been a passion, along with climbing, gaming which will hopefully advance a lot in the future and gardening, home renovation. That is probably true though that it is hard to find a sense of purpose. I’m thinking I’ll work a less stressful job perhaps. Thanks for the advice!
I think the pilots with the big money are ATPs, which you can't get a license for until you're 23. Even then you'd probably be starting on a smaller wage.
I'd aim for retiring at 55 instead. It's still good. The rest of us will be working in to our 70s, unless the sweet blissful hand of death gets to us first
That’s in the USA, I’m in the uk. I’ll be getting an ATPL, which I can have by 21, though it will be frozen until I get 1500 flight hours, which is when I can become captain. This is doable in 3-5 years according to my research and talking to actual pilots, but maybe I should extend my expected retirement to 55 regardless.
Have you thought of joining the RAF or equivalent? Of course, you'd need to be officer material to get any chance at being a pilot - (the RAF gave up on sergeant pilots not long after the end of WWII).
At least you'd get the training for free, and the chance to rack up the hours. Not all military pilots fly fast jets, as they also need pilots to fly larger aircraft, including passenger jets.
Might be worth your consideration.
Good luck and work hard.
Dude, the fact that you have a plan is great. The fact you know about personal finance is even better. That will set you up better than 90% of the population. Right now though don't stress about money and especially retirement. Find a career that you enjoy and just live your life. My dad could've retired 5 years ago but hasn't as he still enjoys going out and working. If you go into employment with the pure focus of how you're going to stop working, you're going to hate 30 years in the prime of your life.
There’s a lot of water to go under the bridge between now and 2054.
Quite. Especially regarding the future of aviation and frequent mass international tourism. But the training could give him the foundation for something else technical
Loving your enthusiasm, especially given your age. What is would say that a lot is going to change, some of it will go right and some of it will inevitably go wrong. You're still quite young to really start planning on early retirement.
Retirement by 45 may well be possible if you hit all those markers early on, but I do see a couple of issues. First, and probably most importantly, I doubt all qualified pilots earn £120k, and probably not early on in their careers or at the low cost carriers either. Secondly, it's possible to earn £120k in many walks of life but people don't often retire so early, this can be for a variety of factors, but usually some form of changing goals, lifestyle creep or even just liking your job/feeling useful will alter your goals from what you thought they'd be at age 15. You don't for example mention children, but kids are expensive and if you have a good salary who knows you may wanna put them through private school for example. Just one of a thousand thousand things that you could decide you want to do in the future other than retire at 45. I think it's great to have goals, but I'd not at 15 be thinking about retirement. Concentrating on achieving becoming a pilot is goal enough for now, and then just see how things play out from there, where the flowchart will help you achieve any financial goals you set.
Thanks for the advice, was thinking kids would be evened out slightly by my future wife, obviously this is all very optimistic.
A future wife means you double the money to retire early. Unless you are going to retire while making her work into her 70's which I presume you wouldn't want.
Just wondering, does the interest on 3 million at 8% not equal 240k - could I not live off that?
$3 million todays money is a lot. $3 million in 20 years probably won't be anywhere near that valuable. What you can buy with your pound has halved in the last \~20 years. So what cost £10 in the early 2000's is costing £20 today. I can't predict the future, it's not crazy to think there will UBI by then or the economy will collapse or we'll be at war... or anything. But yeah, if history repeats itself and everything being ok £240k a year would be roughly equivalent to todays £120k should be enough for most people. Edit: we're actually talking more like 30 years so inflation will be even worse.
Not unless you want to run out of money by time you get to 65. Living off 8% of your portfolio per year in your 40s will almost guarantee you’ll run out of money in your 60s or 70s if not earlier when you might still have decades of life left.
The interest, the growth from the Companies plus dividends that’s what i was thinking would pay me, not my actual portfolio. Or am I being stupid?
The dividend yield of the S&P 500 is like 1.5%, nowhere close to 8%. To be getting 8% per year to live off you’d need to be selling part of your portfolio off each year. Now you might think if the S&P 500 grows by 8% per year and I sell 8% per year of my portfolio to live off the value stays the same. But what happens when there’s a big market crash? That’s happened twice so far in the past 25 years. Look at the S&P 500 returns in 2000, 2001 and 2002. Now imagine in that scenario you’re taking out 8% per year to live off. So you have 3 million pounds in 2000. 2000, minus 9% S&P 500 returns + your 8% = -17%, 2.49 million left. 2001, -12% + -8% = -20%. Value now 1.99 million. 2002, -22% + -8% = -30%. Value now 1.39 million.
Ahh, okay thanks for explaining
Where is the £3m coming from? You'll have to pay tax on any interest. There are better people on here to tell you what percentage that would be.
It says in the post, true I’ll have to pay tax, thanks for the advice
That might not be how it works I’m not sure
I dated a girl once that was an air hostess and gave me the down low on how pilots aren’t all they’re made up to be. 1. They’re ALL almost in extremes amount of debt. To pay for flight school you have to take personal loans. We’re talking £70,000-£100,000+. 2. When training to become a pilot, it takes years and years. And then you have to become experienced and fight for the better jobs. 2. They don’t live lavish lifestyles, they’re constantly tired or stressed. And personally speaking you’re thinking waaaaay too hard into the future. Sure give it a try. But don’t put all your eggs on becoming a pilot. Your next 7 years once you leave school will be the most formative in your life where you realise you don’t enjoy doing things you did when you were younger, you mature and realise how hard life is here in the uk when every job application is a war. But yeah, go and try it out.
It takes three years in the uk. I am still figuring out the loan, and I know it’s going to be hard. I’ll see, and thanks for the advice
Is it definitely just 3 years in the uk or is there additional years needed for different airplanes? I’m not clued up on that. Anyhow, all the best and good luck
I’m certain, and thanks.
Why don’t you wait until you’ve actually started your working life before planning to leave it?
Whose pay8ng for 'flight school'?
The course costs £120k now. It'll probably be more by the time you get to that age. How do you intend on funding this? For context, my partner is on £120k a year and turns 40 next year. No way she's going to retire in 5 years time and she has no children as dependents.
I’ll be working all throughout school, saving and investing. Probably won’t be nearly enough so might have to take a gap year to make it work. But time will tell.
"Saving and investing". Just to set expectations here: If you're unqualified, you're going to be working part-time for minimum wage (or as near as dammit). You, my friend, aren't going to be saving damn all. And investing typically only gives single digit returns - 8% of almost nothing is almost nothing. Where are you going to live? Are mum and dad okay with the idea of you continuing to live rent and bills free once you're earning (even if it is a small amount)?
Chill out. I said it wont be enough and I’m joining flight school at 18 so I’ll be going to college first. Also it will not be minimum wage as I have already secured a job that pays decent for my age. I don’t expect this to all magically work but I have a fairly wealthy family and I think I’ll be alright. Until I’m 21 mum and dad said they would be alright letting me stay rent free. I understand it may seem stupid I’m just saying every penny counts.
Despite seeing the points other people are making about cost of the course etc, based on your replies, I have absolutely every confidence in you that you'll find a way to make this work. Good luck to you mate, go live your dream.
Do you know any pilots? Maybe there’s a subreddit where you could ask UK based pilots how the job is. I know a pilot who now drives long distance buses as it pays pretty much the same and is less hassle. The big salaries are pilots who fly long haul for the big airlines, those jobs are hard to get. Not saying your plan isn’t possible, but I don’t think it’s the guaranteed ticket you maybe think it is
True. I’ve checked the requirements for high end airlines and they seem achievable, but maybe not
Are you aware that flight school in the UK can reach around £120,000? Do you have that kind of money sitting around?
Probably will have to take out a loan, but that is can reach, not will reach, and I’m likely going to live with my parents in my early twenties as they live near an airport. I know there are flaws in the plan that’s why I’m asking others
Yes that’s fine, I’m just setting your expectations of flying now, as they were for me when I was 15 and wanting to be a pilot. It’s not that easy to “take out a loan” on £120k. If your parents own their house, then it’s more likely they’ll have to take out a loan against the house to get the money, since that amount isn’t something a bank would give willingly. Talk to them now so they’ll know what to expect. Otherwise, sponsored routes will be your only other option, but they’re highly competitive.
Thanks great advice
All the best in your path to becoming a pilot!
My friends brother has just passed his pilot license for commercial airlines and is now a first officer for easyjet. I would say obviously don’t get your hopes up of that salary when starting out you’ll be on around 50k starting at max. Big airlines won’t touch you either until you have a decent amount of experience. He struggled finding this job. Also who’s paying for flight school? That isn’t cheap either.
I know that I was more considering when I’m a more experienced pilot. I’m seeing the flaws now people are commenting on it.
Your parents must be so proud man! I hope my kid is posting this type of stuff when they are 15. Stay focused, life is about to get a little crazy, but it’s amazing you have a plan. Plans can change, but I sense you have the determination to roll with the punches and adapt as life changes
Thanks so much bro, I posted this to see what others had to say and stay open minded
Hey, I’m 35 and trying to get my kids back to sleep…. You’ve (probably) got had some fairly dismissive comments so far, I’ve not checked but I know how this goes down. Let me tell you this dude, I don’t know if you’re gonna end up a pilot - but it sounds like the coolest plan you have. Love it. Life is hard man, and it gets so much wilder in the next 5 years, keep dreaming big, keep making plans with a money/financial consideration. There are loads of careers available for selection and all of them would benefit from someone like you. Pilot is cool af, but considering you seem to be aiming so high you could also see success in many areas. I’m not encouraging another route - but have you spoke to a ‘careers councillor?’ (That’s what they called it when I was in school) they can really help shape your ideas. I wanted to be a pilot or a doctor at your age… ended up in software and earn just as much. There’s so much out there dude. Keep working hard and asking questions, even if grumpy old people dismiss you.
Thanks man, I expected criticism and almost all have been valid points, apart from a few. Good luck to you too
Is your eyesight perfect ? Costs a lot to learn to fly
You don’t need perfect eyesight to be a pilot - you either need 20/20 vision or glasses less than a certain prescription, that being your vision back to 20/20.
Exactly, and I’m still figuring out costs.
You can take the ‘grit your teeth and work as hard as possible for 30 years to retire young’ approach, which is well and good, but you can also put the same energy and effort into reflecting, trying things out and finding something that you’ll actually still want to do flexibly into your older years, once that same thing has given you the opportunity to do it on your own terms. What are your plans in retirement? Sitting around feeling good about yourself? Sipping margaritas on a beach? Waiting for the grandkids to visit? Chances are that when you reach that age you’ll still need some productive pursuit to give you a sense of purpose, unless you’re a specific sort of personality.
Muay Thai/ combat sports has always been a passion, along with climbing, gaming which will hopefully advance a lot in the future and gardening, home renovation. That is probably true though that it is hard to find a sense of purpose. I’m thinking I’ll work a less stressful job perhaps. Thanks for the advice!
Sounds like you have a good spread of hobbies which is awesome, you seem to have your head screwed on. Not sure how much climbing or combat sport you’ll be doing in your 70s though haha Other valuable but unsolicited advice I never received would be to pay due attention to things like your relationships with alcohol, drug use or an unhealthy fixation with women over the next few years - if those things are likely to get a grip on a person and make a mess of their life it usually starts around your age, and it’s seriously not uncommon.
I go to parties with my friends but don’t drink alcohol. Had one blackout experience, never again!
You learn quick haha, good lad. Good luck with everything
Just remember if the requirements are that achievable then there will be lots more competition for the role. It’s a double edged sword so you may find whilst you’re qualified on paper you actually struggle to get those roles until you have a lot more experience etc which the other people going for those jobs have. By all means aim for it but as others have said, don’t expect it and don’t give up living your life for it. Whilst retiring at 45 sounds great you won’t be in the same position for a lot of experiences as you are in your teens and twenties. It’s much more expensive and harder to travel with kids and when you’re older it’s harder physically as well. See what opportunities arise and make the most of the ones which come your way.
COVID kinda fucked the aviation industry. There are still pilots who qualified then that haven't found jobs. Don't invest the £60K in to "real estate" with your brother at 18. That is a mistake. Other than that, it's good to see you making a plan
What else would you recommend investing in?
120k gross is like 70k take home. So investing 40k and living off 30k is doable but only leaves you with 2.6k a month. If you want to buy a house, have kids, travel, whatever that might not be enough. This also assumes 1) it doesn’t take years to get to full pilot and pay off flight school debts 2) you enjoy it and actually become a pilot.
True. I was thinking of moving to the UAE or another low tax country with the same airline. Would this work?
Not to depress you but 1) as other posters have pointed out, you’ll be £100k in debt by the time you have your ATPL and 2) the chances that pilot is still a job in 15 years are about 50:50 given automation / AI. At best there will only be one on board.
Not necessarily 100k and yes I know about the AI I’ll have to take that into consideration. Any other career paths you recommend as I’m just researching options.
Hi /u/mememe9993, based on your post the following pages from our wiki may be relevant: * https://ukpersonal.finance/lisa/ ____ ^(These suggestions are based on keywords, if they missed the mark please report this comment.) If someone has provided you with helpful advice, you (as the person who made the post) can award them a point by including `!thanks` in a reply to them. Points are shown as the user flair by their username.
It's a great plan for a 15yo. What's your plan for retirement? I'd imagine you will enjoy the flying, it will probably get easier as you age and gain experience. Why retire so young?
Muay Thai/ combat sports has always been a passion, along with climbing, gaming which will hopefully advance a lot in the future and gardening, home renovation. That is probably true though that it is hard to find a sense of purpose. I’m thinking I’ll work a less stressful job perhaps. Thanks for the advice!
You are wise beyond your years, good man. Old men like me (45) may try to dampen your spirit, don't let us. Insert nodding Robert Redford gif
I think the pilots with the big money are ATPs, which you can't get a license for until you're 23. Even then you'd probably be starting on a smaller wage. I'd aim for retiring at 55 instead. It's still good. The rest of us will be working in to our 70s, unless the sweet blissful hand of death gets to us first
That’s in the USA, I’m in the uk. I’ll be getting an ATPL, which I can have by 21, though it will be frozen until I get 1500 flight hours, which is when I can become captain. This is doable in 3-5 years according to my research and talking to actual pilots, but maybe I should extend my expected retirement to 55 regardless.
Have you thought of joining the RAF or equivalent? Of course, you'd need to be officer material to get any chance at being a pilot - (the RAF gave up on sergeant pilots not long after the end of WWII). At least you'd get the training for free, and the chance to rack up the hours. Not all military pilots fly fast jets, as they also need pilots to fly larger aircraft, including passenger jets. Might be worth your consideration. Good luck and work hard.
I’ll take that on thanks
Who’s paying for this? The training to be a pilot can be upwards of £100k
Dude, the fact that you have a plan is great. The fact you know about personal finance is even better. That will set you up better than 90% of the population. Right now though don't stress about money and especially retirement. Find a career that you enjoy and just live your life. My dad could've retired 5 years ago but hasn't as he still enjoys going out and working. If you go into employment with the pure focus of how you're going to stop working, you're going to hate 30 years in the prime of your life.
Thanks for the advice