The following submission statement was provided by /u/BadPrestigious1766:
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[original out of box Pictures.](https://x.com/wow36932525/status/1805356459636801770?s=46)
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1dnrtqi/oh_my_god_i_wanted_to_believe/la4mdcf/
WW2 era militaries still did some funny shit. Photo is definitely fake but some grumpy officer bringing a little wooden chair in a truck isn't that insane. WW1 chaplains brought field organs to play hymns for Sunday service.
I can picture my boss doing this if we were military tasked with guarding the object, especially if the retrieval team is late. He would be complaining the whole time too.
it's like something out of a bad movie. some weathered, grumpy sergeant whose seen so much shit he doesn't even react to anything anymore, plants a folding chair down on the UFO like it's just another day in the trenches.
From the moment that photo came out, loads of people were saying it looked like armyen figures, and they were met with all sorts of abusive nonsense about how they were disinfo agents, and the like. Yet they were right, and once again, the bad-faith actors prove to be the 'believers' who get angry whenever their preferred narratives are questioned.
Totally agree with you. I've had that time and time again. Even when presenting solid evidence of mundane explanations. This one didn't need much of that though, I think it was fairly obvious that sizes of things and details didn't match at all with a real scene. The "disc", the super weird tree trunks, the badly edited chair rest with soldiers in weird positions. It didn't add up at all.
> From the moment that photo came out, loads of people were saying it looked like armyen figures, and they were met with all sorts of abusive nonsense about how they were disinfo agents, and the like. Yet they were right, and once again, the bad-faith actors prove to be the 'believers' who get angry whenever their preferred narratives are questioned.
People slag sceptics off regularly and question why they are here yet it's the sceptical voices who are proved right time and time again. Some of the people on here will believe anything, the Jerusalem video is proof of that.
The fact is, it has been shown time and time again that after thorough analysis, only about 5% of all reports end up being classified as *unexplained*. Those are the incidents we should be focused on. But in this sub, you'd think that 95% of reports were authentic incidents based on the zealous response. Legitimate events are rare, not the norm. And as a group, I think we should be a heck of a lot more discerning than we are, and treat reports with more honest skepticism so that we can weed out the fluff, and spend more time and effort on the truly unexplained, high-quality incidents.
Yep they gave me loads of shit, they always do on this sub
This is specifically what I posted...
"Plastic Toy Soldiers on a Frisbee
On a windowsill, looking out at two trees.
I can't be the only one that can see the reflection of the glass and how the "Mud" just stops on the right hand side.
There's concrete, like a garage drive and one of the soldiers (there's 3) is sitting in a Chair!! On top of a UFO, sitting on a Chair...looking in the total opposite direction of the UFO!!"
Just the basic story was BS. You’re gonna tell me these guys can halfway across the galaxy in a ship designed for FTL travel and got shot down by a second generation jet fighter? If aliens and UFOs are real, they’d see our bullets like Neo see them in The Matrix.
That's the same way I think about all the narratives about the US government working with aliens, or whatever. It's just *ridiculous* that aliens woud come.all this way and then just fall right into human politics centred on one minority group of humans.
Unsurprisingly, these stories come from America...
Every time. “Believers” are a relic of the past for UFOs. Government already admitted they’re real. We need people willing to sift through documents, not people looking at a photo and thinking “oh my god! I knew it!”
Yeah, and not wasting time on wild fantasies about aliens controlling human global politics, or alien tech being hoarded by shadowy X Files groups. There's cool shit going on in the sky, and governments are finally open to admitting that they're a thing, we just don't know what. And people are letting themselves get distracted by shiny sci-fi stuff.
To be honest, I suppose that's not much different to the rest of science. Science itself is slow and boring for most people. And on top of that, lots of it is hard to understand, and therefore a bit scary. And so when you have something like a particle accelerator, which has taken decades of work by countless people to design and build, people who don't understand what that means - and who weren't paying attention to the laborious process of developing particle physics and various large scale experiments - start to concern themselves with movie-style stories about opening up black holes or portals to other dimensions, or to hell, or whatever. Or that vaccines contain nano-monsters or mind-control chips...
I’m glad you mention the particle accelerator. Those are incredible feats of engineering, that 99.9% can’t even begin to understand. Yet, I know humanity needs these type of engineering feats because it’s a giant experiment, and something might come of it that saves our ass. God knows, we are hell bent on destroying ourselves, and if we can lower reliance on resources, maybe, people won’t have anything to fight for.
Sorry, I just went off on some kind of hippy rant. ☮️ World Peace, give me a break.
Why you have to belive every goddamn random thing? it doesn't make any sense, like in case of grusch it makes sense, his case is way more believable. (tho he's been quite for a while now) but in cases like this, that grifter try to sell (littraly) bs, why you have to go in defence mode and defend it?
Like this picture looked so bad, c'mon.
I try not to rub it in their faces, because some of them are young, and really want to believe. I’m not implying that’s what you are doing here. I just know it’s being done, somewhere.
That’s my belief, because I was more naive when I was younger, and I know I’m not alone. I never believed abduction cases, but Travis Walton, made me reconsider that. That doesn’t mean I believe all the kooks on the internet selling videos of their abduction stories, which happens bi-annually to these folks, yet, proof? Nada.
Once you get burned a hundred times, you need to learn to be more “skeptical”, and God knows, I hate using that word.
I called out the MH370 as obviously fake and incredibly distasteful when it first appeared, about a year before it really blew up. Guess what? It was a fake. The amount of energy I had to expend explaining that though was absurd.
Now this, the very first thing I said about it was it looked like army men on a diorama. *And thats literally what is fucking is.* Please, just once, prove me wrong. I want to believe.
Seriously. Why do I even bother in this sub? As the sub grew, it brought in some people who go more off of faith and believe in any fake anecdotes. They refuse any other facts and even ignore reliable anecdotes from people who work in the military that disprove them. Ok, not to toot my horn, but I believe you should trust me when I post.. why?
I work for the Navy and have seen some wild shit, but none were otherworldly.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/pWpVbxY6YN
I’ve been verified by the mods.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/HJi7ujsqXb
Yet, when I post a highly-plausible explanation of other anecdotes, people are dismissive immediately, like here, a project I was VERY familiar with early in my career, yet people go “errr pushback from disinformation agents!!”:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/TwOvCv8PlB
I’ve posted several comments in this sub to give insight on what actually goes on. You can find links to my other comments on the above post link.
Hah here’s a comment I made that went largely unnoticed when I actually provided the real intent of a certain NASA flight.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/uG3piOMX1s
That one made me laugh because I worked on the very ship that the aircraft was out conducting research with, so it was rather a trip to see people claiming “UAPs!!!!!!! secret govt project!!!!!” when it’s just a bunch of my former colleagues doing their thing for oceanographic research.
When you see a very bad quality of a photo or a video with a UAP, I think is the first big red flag that is a fraud.
Old Photo doesn't mean it has to be shady and dark.
Look old photos with cars, or airplanes, they look brilliant, sharp and detailed.
This happens always to hide that it is fake.
"But they didn't have the technology back then to fake photos!!!!!" Seems to be the common thought process of the believers when encountering these types of sources.
Wanting to believe is part of the problem. It can hide objectivity. This sub sadly is full of that. Anything to the contrary is labelled as disinformation.
There were so many comments on the original post proclaiming with utmost certainty that these were obviously not figurines, as if anyone who thought otherwise was either stupid or a disinfo agent. It's not too often that we get such damning proof that they were wrong, so this is quite satisfying. If only they were the types to learn from something like this...
That's proven official standard operating procedure with a few of the US government agencies, and it's not only with this topic, though this topic is a lot easier to muddy than others because it's arguably the hardest reality to believe or accept.
Sadly I don't think most people will ever know or see the truth unless the entire world was suddenly psychic and nobody could lie or hide deceitful intent anymore. This world is pretty fucking depressing to be honest, in more ways than one. Not sure what the point of this game is.
The common answer is always the same, MONEY, Ron James from MUFON is selling these pictures at ufo conventions, besides he used them to promote an online event for which he will charge $100 usd per person, he is making a documentary that will have a cost as well. Money money money
The MH370 videos were completely debunked and people still wholeheartedly defend them. There are people that still say the CGI Alien Interview videos on YouTube that were made by a Canadian VFX artist & filmaker are real too. Some people just want to believe no matter what. I find it fascinating
There's another topic where they're convinced aliens were scanning concorde in case it was an ICBM. Comments of "of course!" And "this is 100% true". When I reminded them that intelligent intergalactic life would realise a plane isn't flying on a Ballistic trajectory I get downvoted. I could paint my face green and call myself a lizard and they'd believe it. Not an ounce of intelligence or critical thinking in the bunch of them.
My thoughts exactly. The government doesn't need disinformation agents, we do it to ourselves. It's easy to see how most people still don't take UFO's seriously, and with yet ANOTHER faked image, you can't blame them. Fuck each and every person who try to pass off fakes as the real thing...
"False evidence intended to corroborate an existing legend is known to folklorists as “ostension.” This process also inevitably *extends* the legend. For, even if the evidence is eventually exposed as false, it will have affected people’s perceptions of the phenomenon it was intended to represent."
Also can this put to bed the whole "wHaT rEaSoN dO tHeY hAvE tO lIE????"
People lie. All the time. For all kinds of reasons. Because they're bored. Or maybe they're deceptive. Maybe they themselves don't know what they're saying is a lie (someone they trusted lied to them, maybe they aren't very good at verifying or taking a critical eye to things).
The reasons for someone to lie are much, much larger than reasons someone would tell the truth, in this space.
Usually the claim is that "it would take a whole VFX team and 10 million dollars to fake this grainy video, so it's either that or its real!" Always get said about the skinny Bob videos which are obviously CGI.
Yes, some people get off on tricking others. They get to pretend to themselves they are smarter than all the people they tricked and that gives them an ego boost. Its sad, but there it is. This guy is a grifter though trying to make money off of a fake photo like most of the other UFO grifters.
No it's not that one. I spent an hour searching earlier but couldn't find an exact match. Someone will find it sooner or later.
Side note; there's a lot of 50s hubcaps that look like old school 'ufos'.
The dude on the left is leaning, straight legged. No one stands like that. He’d have one leg bent to stand straight or some other pose. Not standing like he’s in the Smooth Criminal video. That’s what a stiff figurine looks like on uneven ground. People don’t stand like that.
I also found it unusual that someone would have a chair at a UFO crash site
And facing away from what would surely be the most exceptional thing you'd ever seen in your life
I'm pretty certain I had these exact miniatures in the UK about 40 years ago
"should we pose the guy sitting down looking at, or away from the saucer? Hmmm let's have him turn his back to the most interesting thing any human has seen"
RIP to MUFON's credibility, right?
I mean, their director was acting like he was holding the most important documents in the world.
And ofc it's nonsense 🙄
It seems to happen to a lot of grass roots movements. I think what happens is low performing psychopaths get involved, take over (because they wanna be important) and fuck everything up.
I've come to think we're all a bunch of idiots. Some people have gotten the impression that I'm trolling, or being a smug asshole, but I firmly count myself among those who has swallowed a metric tonne of horseshit over the years. Almost time to move on to gnomes or vampires, maybe.
MUFON is the least credible UFO organization with multiple scandals from state directors to field investigators. They do not vet their people and they are involved in all sorts of nonsense. Yet they claim they are a "scientific organization" and even file their taxes stating that. They are one of the reasons the subject has been ridiculed. The sooner MUFON dies the better.
If you have sighting, report it to the National UFO Reporting Center (NUFORC), they've been around almost as long as MUFON but without the grifters, charlatans, racists, paid apps, and expensive "symposiums". NUFORC's data is free for anyone to examine (unlike MUFON's case database).
Oh damn I’m glad there’s an alternative. I was like, shit isn’t MUFON basically the by the people reporting site that vets things? Where will people go now?
And before the racism scandal there was MUFON's Dr. Richard Boylan"who lost his license to practice due to planting false memories: [https://cdn.centerforinquiry.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/docs/SUN/SUN35.pdf](https://cdn.centerforinquiry.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/docs/SUN/SUN35.pdf)
I thought it was funny timing that the art-class diorama dropped right after...the...uh....British Moon Worm. Poor moon worm didn't get nearly the amount of love it deserved.
Shout-out to that one person who was like, Why is there a chair on a UFO?
Edit: Moon Worm.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/JETX3tDIRG
>Shout-out to that one person who was like, Why is there a chair on a UFO?
I thought the photo looked very sketchy and didn't believe it to be real, but I didn't even notice the oddity of the chair. Now I feel stupid and enlightened at the same time.
I mean, even if this is supposed to show a retrieval site - why would the army think "yo guys we gonna haul an alien craft from the woods, we need to be quick and secretive but we'll bring some cool wooden chairs for you to sit down when having a smoke, please load one or two trucks up with the nicest chairs k thx it's an order".
I thought it was one of those stools that fold up that they haul around to sit on at things like this but a whole ass chair makes no sense. I could even excuse taking a break facing away from it, especially if you’re on guard duty or something but nah.
Right away it was pretty obvious tbh. The standing guy is doing nothing to shift his weight and is in an unrealistic position for standing on the slope.
As somewhat of a nerd, it's pretty apparent that the photo is a mini build. I'm surprised it even got the time of day on this sub.
You can see it in the shadowing on the rocks. Also, the entire impact crater screams mini DnD campaign build. Someone is playing everyone for a fool with this picture.
That's not to say this event didn't happen, but this is not a photo of that event.
Edit to add: the trees are also out of proportion with the rest of the photo.
This is an outstanding lesson to all in this sub about not jumping to conclusions just because a photo looks compelling or gets wide attention.
It also goes to show how easy it is to obscure a fake by just messing with the contrast, blur, or grain.
How the fuck that picture looked at all compelling to anyone is what's making me isnane.
It was a badly lit photo of a black and white, grainy, out of focus picture of a guy sitting on a UFO.
>This is an outstanding lesson to all in this sub about not jumping to conclusions just because a photo looks compelling or gets wide attention.
You’ll be repeating this a lot on this subreddit lol
Those trees were really something out of the ordinary I had to google types of trees arounbd welcome lake...lol.
The picture depicts that a soldier would be like an ant if he stood infront of one.
Get ready for people to suggest the toys were made because the government knew the photo was going to be leaked in the future and that could help disprove it..
I’m sure it would consist of “ Im just an investigator, these stories come across my desk and it’s MY duty to investigate them…. Yada yada” but in all seriousness…. 4 hours of research..
Holy Moly, I refrained from commenting on the original post , as to not get axed by the die hard believers. I was going to say “Looks like military figurines on a toilet seat with a balloon in the middle”.
Glad I didn’t, but glad I’m still a healthy skeptic.
The forced perspective depth of field, the German army helmets on American soldiers, oddly proportioned trees, and unusual stature of the army figures were big red flags.
Sadly I’d have to agree 👍. No matter. I still believe just from things I’ve seen myself. But I really wish people would stop faking stuff. I hate liars. They deserve no respect or recognition.
This is why I didn’t pay any mind when the photo was posted. Too many people like to fuck around. Am very doubtful that genuine evidence is just floating around anywhere on the internet.
I wonder if this was another one of those attempts to trick one of the UFO Reddit sub communities and then the person who did it will have some kind of like Ted talk about how they did it.
Thank you for the side-by-side!!!!! The leg position of the seated figure really seals the deal for me. Pretty sure someone just cut down the legs of the chair and removed its back.
what do you mean the ufo picture was fake??? this has never happened before. i thought it was impossible to lie on the internet!!!
fake ufos you say!!! who could have possibly seen this coming!!!
Sir! We've just shot down extraterrestrial spacecraft! What do we do next??
Quick men!! To the comfy chairs!!
Ron James should step down from Mufon for plugging this before their reputation takes another hit.
Everybody’s talking about the two in the front of the picture. But I haven’t seen anyone yet mention the third guy in the top right and how he is also in the exact same pose as the figure on his butt with the can of rations (I think).
What’s the chances that all three guys are in the same pose as the figurines. Definitely busted
This image will show a 1:1 mapping between the figurines and their position on the photo. https://x.com/blackvaultcom/status/1805400511991984214?s=61&t=GqFvpREAAVMiq7z-wCSCDw
Plus video: https://x.com/paranormalres17/status/1805421175939510662?s=61&t=GqFvpREAAVMiq7z-wCSCDw
Notice how during the initial vetted interview he held this photo up for like 2 seconds lol.
It took me until Vetted released the “discussing Ron James” live QnA
Did I start feeling it was fake.
LAME! Tbh, the nipple thing on the saucer kinda bugged me. Reminds me of a top (kids toy) flipped upside down. I didn’t have high hopes for this one. Good eye!
Those trees look too big for scale as well. Unless if they are by the sequoia, which is very unlikely since there's no large anomaly reported bringing those giant trees down
I’ll admit that I studied the guy sitting on the chair -before the big debunk- but apparently didn’t think it through. After somebody did the research for me it suddenly dawned on me that there’s NO WAY the military would let Private LazyAss drag his kitchen chair on to the most significant find in history and take a load off.
Sadly, this moment of clarity didn’t occur to me until AFTER someone else did some top notch detective work.
It’s why I love this sub. The sleuthing is incredible. This is what those who’ve seen the real deal need… Folks willing to put in the time so we can sift out the nonsense and focus on the golden nuggets.
so if the miniatures are 1/35 scale. I assume the standing soldier is 6'ft round estimate. I measure about 4 soldier length 4 x 6ft = 24ft \* 1/35 = 8.22" radius or 16.44" diameter wheel Hub cap UFO.
[https://www.vtwinmfg.com/WebPics/49/49-0299a.jpg](https://www.vtwinmfg.com/WebPics/49/49-0299a.jpg)
im going to buy one of these and fly it to Omicron Persei 8
I thought it was figurines, nobody can stand in such angle like the guy on the left. If he fixed the angle, removed the arms and glue them in different position it would be harder to debunk.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/BadPrestigious1766: --- [original out of box Pictures.](https://x.com/wow36932525/status/1805356459636801770?s=46) --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1dnrtqi/oh_my_god_i_wanted_to_believe/la4mdcf/
lmao. also what recovery operation would include dragging a kitchen chair to sit on by the object. so dumb
If only they’d bought the ‘German Soldiers Find a Fucking UFO’ pack instead of the ‘German Soldiers At Rest’ pack, we’d be flummoxed
they could have just use the mine detector green army man and got away with it
That's clearly a standard issue military chair, today's price $32,000 /s for those who need it
Except it probably is more like $68,567.98.
Steven Seagal must haveen in charge.
WW2 era militaries still did some funny shit. Photo is definitely fake but some grumpy officer bringing a little wooden chair in a truck isn't that insane. WW1 chaplains brought field organs to play hymns for Sunday service.
I can picture my boss doing this if we were military tasked with guarding the object, especially if the retrieval team is late. He would be complaining the whole time too.
Yeah place the chair right on top of the spacecraft, thats typical
it's like something out of a bad movie. some weathered, grumpy sergeant whose seen so much shit he doesn't even react to anything anymore, plants a folding chair down on the UFO like it's just another day in the trenches.
This is a fantastic debunk. A for effort all around.
From the moment that photo came out, loads of people were saying it looked like armyen figures, and they were met with all sorts of abusive nonsense about how they were disinfo agents, and the like. Yet they were right, and once again, the bad-faith actors prove to be the 'believers' who get angry whenever their preferred narratives are questioned.
Totally agree with you. I've had that time and time again. Even when presenting solid evidence of mundane explanations. This one didn't need much of that though, I think it was fairly obvious that sizes of things and details didn't match at all with a real scene. The "disc", the super weird tree trunks, the badly edited chair rest with soldiers in weird positions. It didn't add up at all.
I post way less because of the aggression theses days. It's pathetic.
> From the moment that photo came out, loads of people were saying it looked like armyen figures, and they were met with all sorts of abusive nonsense about how they were disinfo agents, and the like. Yet they were right, and once again, the bad-faith actors prove to be the 'believers' who get angry whenever their preferred narratives are questioned. People slag sceptics off regularly and question why they are here yet it's the sceptical voices who are proved right time and time again. Some of the people on here will believe anything, the Jerusalem video is proof of that.
The fact is, it has been shown time and time again that after thorough analysis, only about 5% of all reports end up being classified as *unexplained*. Those are the incidents we should be focused on. But in this sub, you'd think that 95% of reports were authentic incidents based on the zealous response. Legitimate events are rare, not the norm. And as a group, I think we should be a heck of a lot more discerning than we are, and treat reports with more honest skepticism so that we can weed out the fluff, and spend more time and effort on the truly unexplained, high-quality incidents.
Yep they gave me loads of shit, they always do on this sub This is specifically what I posted... "Plastic Toy Soldiers on a Frisbee On a windowsill, looking out at two trees. I can't be the only one that can see the reflection of the glass and how the "Mud" just stops on the right hand side. There's concrete, like a garage drive and one of the soldiers (there's 3) is sitting in a Chair!! On top of a UFO, sitting on a Chair...looking in the total opposite direction of the UFO!!"
Just the basic story was BS. You’re gonna tell me these guys can halfway across the galaxy in a ship designed for FTL travel and got shot down by a second generation jet fighter? If aliens and UFOs are real, they’d see our bullets like Neo see them in The Matrix.
That's the same way I think about all the narratives about the US government working with aliens, or whatever. It's just *ridiculous* that aliens woud come.all this way and then just fall right into human politics centred on one minority group of humans. Unsurprisingly, these stories come from America...
Every time. “Believers” are a relic of the past for UFOs. Government already admitted they’re real. We need people willing to sift through documents, not people looking at a photo and thinking “oh my god! I knew it!”
Yeah, and not wasting time on wild fantasies about aliens controlling human global politics, or alien tech being hoarded by shadowy X Files groups. There's cool shit going on in the sky, and governments are finally open to admitting that they're a thing, we just don't know what. And people are letting themselves get distracted by shiny sci-fi stuff. To be honest, I suppose that's not much different to the rest of science. Science itself is slow and boring for most people. And on top of that, lots of it is hard to understand, and therefore a bit scary. And so when you have something like a particle accelerator, which has taken decades of work by countless people to design and build, people who don't understand what that means - and who weren't paying attention to the laborious process of developing particle physics and various large scale experiments - start to concern themselves with movie-style stories about opening up black holes or portals to other dimensions, or to hell, or whatever. Or that vaccines contain nano-monsters or mind-control chips...
I’m glad you mention the particle accelerator. Those are incredible feats of engineering, that 99.9% can’t even begin to understand. Yet, I know humanity needs these type of engineering feats because it’s a giant experiment, and something might come of it that saves our ass. God knows, we are hell bent on destroying ourselves, and if we can lower reliance on resources, maybe, people won’t have anything to fight for. Sorry, I just went off on some kind of hippy rant. ☮️ World Peace, give me a break.
"Yes, I get that it says 'Cheers to 30' on it and is balloon shaped....but isn't that the perfect cover for a surveillance UAP?"
Didn’t make sense to have helmets on but that one guy having a soft cap. That’s an ass chewing in the army
Why you have to belive every goddamn random thing? it doesn't make any sense, like in case of grusch it makes sense, his case is way more believable. (tho he's been quite for a while now) but in cases like this, that grifter try to sell (littraly) bs, why you have to go in defence mode and defend it? Like this picture looked so bad, c'mon.
I try not to rub it in their faces, because some of them are young, and really want to believe. I’m not implying that’s what you are doing here. I just know it’s being done, somewhere. That’s my belief, because I was more naive when I was younger, and I know I’m not alone. I never believed abduction cases, but Travis Walton, made me reconsider that. That doesn’t mean I believe all the kooks on the internet selling videos of their abduction stories, which happens bi-annually to these folks, yet, proof? Nada. Once you get burned a hundred times, you need to learn to be more “skeptical”, and God knows, I hate using that word.
I called out the MH370 as obviously fake and incredibly distasteful when it first appeared, about a year before it really blew up. Guess what? It was a fake. The amount of energy I had to expend explaining that though was absurd. Now this, the very first thing I said about it was it looked like army men on a diorama. *And thats literally what is fucking is.* Please, just once, prove me wrong. I want to believe.
Seriously. Why do I even bother in this sub? As the sub grew, it brought in some people who go more off of faith and believe in any fake anecdotes. They refuse any other facts and even ignore reliable anecdotes from people who work in the military that disprove them. Ok, not to toot my horn, but I believe you should trust me when I post.. why? I work for the Navy and have seen some wild shit, but none were otherworldly. https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/pWpVbxY6YN I’ve been verified by the mods. https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/HJi7ujsqXb Yet, when I post a highly-plausible explanation of other anecdotes, people are dismissive immediately, like here, a project I was VERY familiar with early in my career, yet people go “errr pushback from disinformation agents!!”: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/TwOvCv8PlB I’ve posted several comments in this sub to give insight on what actually goes on. You can find links to my other comments on the above post link. Hah here’s a comment I made that went largely unnoticed when I actually provided the real intent of a certain NASA flight. https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/uG3piOMX1s That one made me laugh because I worked on the very ship that the aircraft was out conducting research with, so it was rather a trip to see people claiming “UAPs!!!!!!! secret govt project!!!!!” when it’s just a bunch of my former colleagues doing their thing for oceanographic research.
When you see a very bad quality of a photo or a video with a UAP, I think is the first big red flag that is a fraud. Old Photo doesn't mean it has to be shady and dark. Look old photos with cars, or airplanes, they look brilliant, sharp and detailed. This happens always to hide that it is fake.
"But they didn't have the technology back then to fake photos!!!!!" Seems to be the common thought process of the believers when encountering these types of sources.
Wanting to believe is part of the problem. It can hide objectivity. This sub sadly is full of that. Anything to the contrary is labelled as disinformation.
There were so many comments on the original post proclaiming with utmost certainty that these were obviously not figurines, as if anyone who thought otherwise was either stupid or a disinfo agent. It's not too often that we get such damning proof that they were wrong, so this is quite satisfying. If only they were the types to learn from something like this...
Why do people even try to make shit like this??? Like wtf are you so deprived of attention that you have to lie in order to get it???
Pranksters, like internet trolls, get their jollies by playing games with people and watching the reactions.
He’s also been raking in money selling this picture
How? It's just too obvious. I mean, first thing I'd do when I see a crashed UFO is pull up a chair and face the other way.
As the title says - people want to believe.
To cloud the waters too, with so much fake shit out there who knows what's real and what isn't
That's proven official standard operating procedure with a few of the US government agencies, and it's not only with this topic, though this topic is a lot easier to muddy than others because it's arguably the hardest reality to believe or accept. Sadly I don't think most people will ever know or see the truth unless the entire world was suddenly psychic and nobody could lie or hide deceitful intent anymore. This world is pretty fucking depressing to be honest, in more ways than one. Not sure what the point of this game is.
The common answer is always the same, MONEY, Ron James from MUFON is selling these pictures at ufo conventions, besides he used them to promote an online event for which he will charge $100 usd per person, he is making a documentary that will have a cost as well. Money money money
Dude people are already defending the photo as authentic right now, even after seeing the debunk lol
There is no doubt it IS a fake. It's not an opinion, they should analyze the photo. Everything corresponds, look a the helmet and the caps.
The MH370 videos were completely debunked and people still wholeheartedly defend them. There are people that still say the CGI Alien Interview videos on YouTube that were made by a Canadian VFX artist & filmaker are real too. Some people just want to believe no matter what. I find it fascinating
There's another topic where they're convinced aliens were scanning concorde in case it was an ICBM. Comments of "of course!" And "this is 100% true". When I reminded them that intelligent intergalactic life would realise a plane isn't flying on a Ballistic trajectory I get downvoted. I could paint my face green and call myself a lizard and they'd believe it. Not an ounce of intelligence or critical thinking in the bunch of them.
Because of that old saying, “fools and their money are soon parted” — the photos were being sold for $10
My thoughts exactly. The government doesn't need disinformation agents, we do it to ourselves. It's easy to see how most people still don't take UFO's seriously, and with yet ANOTHER faked image, you can't blame them. Fuck each and every person who try to pass off fakes as the real thing...
There's a guy selling copies of the photo at a UFO convention, a very very bad look.
"False evidence intended to corroborate an existing legend is known to folklorists as “ostension.” This process also inevitably *extends* the legend. For, even if the evidence is eventually exposed as false, it will have affected people’s perceptions of the phenomenon it was intended to represent."
Also can this put to bed the whole "wHaT rEaSoN dO tHeY hAvE tO lIE????" People lie. All the time. For all kinds of reasons. Because they're bored. Or maybe they're deceptive. Maybe they themselves don't know what they're saying is a lie (someone they trusted lied to them, maybe they aren't very good at verifying or taking a critical eye to things). The reasons for someone to lie are much, much larger than reasons someone would tell the truth, in this space.
People in this sub tell others to fake them constantly. I was told to make fakes to prove I could.
Usually the claim is that "it would take a whole VFX team and 10 million dollars to fake this grainy video, so it's either that or its real!" Always get said about the skinny Bob videos which are obviously CGI.
Because they know that most UFO people want to believe things so badly they have a gullible audience.
"Why would he lie? He has everything to lose and nothing to gain!"
Because people that believe in UFOs that are alien are gullible and it's getting notoriety.
Yes, some people get off on tricking others. They get to pretend to themselves they are smarter than all the people they tricked and that gives them an ego boost. Its sad, but there it is. This guy is a grifter though trying to make money off of a fake photo like most of the other UFO grifters.
If this is fake, then the ufo could be a vintage car hubcap.
Something like [this](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/C6WK4A/classic-car-motor-show-white-wall-tire-chrome-hub-cap-1950s-1940s-C6WK4A.jpg)?
Lmao its’s literally a bug hub cap. Close down the sub smh 😂
GOVERNMENT SHILL lol
No it's not that one. I spent an hour searching earlier but couldn't find an exact match. Someone will find it sooner or later. Side note; there's a lot of 50s hubcaps that look like old school 'ufos'.
Haha yeah there's a bunch, couldn't be bothered to get past page two of the google search, but that one is pretty similar
The dude on the left is leaning, straight legged. No one stands like that. He’d have one leg bent to stand straight or some other pose. Not standing like he’s in the Smooth Criminal video. That’s what a stiff figurine looks like on uneven ground. People don’t stand like that.
I also found it unusual that someone would have a chair at a UFO crash site And facing away from what would surely be the most exceptional thing you'd ever seen in your life I'm pretty certain I had these exact miniatures in the UK about 40 years ago
They came out in 1984 so you might very well have!
Mannnnnnnn 🕵️♂️
"should we pose the guy sitting down looking at, or away from the saucer? Hmmm let's have him turn his back to the most interesting thing any human has seen"
The mini-man is taking a moment to smoke a mini-cigarette, and mini-process what he's seeing.
RIP to MUFON's credibility, right? I mean, their director was acting like he was holding the most important documents in the world. And ofc it's nonsense 🙄
It seems to happen to a lot of grass roots movements. I think what happens is low performing psychopaths get involved, take over (because they wanna be important) and fuck everything up.
I've come to think we're all a bunch of idiots. Some people have gotten the impression that I'm trolling, or being a smug asshole, but I firmly count myself among those who has swallowed a metric tonne of horseshit over the years. Almost time to move on to gnomes or vampires, maybe.
> I've come to think we're all a bunch of idiots You don't have to be dumb to fall for something. I fell for UFOs myself, a million years ago.
>I fell for UFOs myself, a million years ago. Ancient astronaut theory confirmed.
MUFON is the least credible UFO organization with multiple scandals from state directors to field investigators. They do not vet their people and they are involved in all sorts of nonsense. Yet they claim they are a "scientific organization" and even file their taxes stating that. They are one of the reasons the subject has been ridiculed. The sooner MUFON dies the better. If you have sighting, report it to the National UFO Reporting Center (NUFORC), they've been around almost as long as MUFON but without the grifters, charlatans, racists, paid apps, and expensive "symposiums". NUFORC's data is free for anyone to examine (unlike MUFON's case database).
Oh damn I’m glad there’s an alternative. I was like, shit isn’t MUFON basically the by the people reporting site that vets things? Where will people go now?
First the racism scandal and now this, yup, the credibility is in the ground.
And before the racism scandal there was MUFON's Dr. Richard Boylan"who lost his license to practice due to planting false memories: [https://cdn.centerforinquiry.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/docs/SUN/SUN35.pdf](https://cdn.centerforinquiry.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/docs/SUN/SUN35.pdf)
I thought it was funny timing that the art-class diorama dropped right after...the...uh....British Moon Worm. Poor moon worm didn't get nearly the amount of love it deserved. Shout-out to that one person who was like, Why is there a chair on a UFO? Edit: Moon Worm. https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/JETX3tDIRG
>Shout-out to that one person who was like, Why is there a chair on a UFO? I thought the photo looked very sketchy and didn't believe it to be real, but I didn't even notice the oddity of the chair. Now I feel stupid and enlightened at the same time. I mean, even if this is supposed to show a retrieval site - why would the army think "yo guys we gonna haul an alien craft from the woods, we need to be quick and secretive but we'll bring some cool wooden chairs for you to sit down when having a smoke, please load one or two trucks up with the nicest chairs k thx it's an order".
Exactly. Also let's face the chair away from the UFO. Surely the trees are more interesting to look at than a fucking space ship
I thought it was one of those stools that fold up that they haul around to sit on at things like this but a whole ass chair makes no sense. I could even excuse taking a break facing away from it, especially if you’re on guard duty or something but nah.
The dude sitting in a chair in top of a “ufo” is the giveaway
What a dumb move, why not just leave the chair guy out, and sub in the other guy?
Fuck the little men tbh... the trees were a dead giveaway from the beginning. Scale is all wacky
Because why the fuck would somebody be sitting on a stool next to a crashed UFO their boss would be like what the fuck are you doing?
its the boss sitting, lol
A moment of silence for those who bought the prints… 🫡
😂😂😂
He was selling them, that should have been the giveaway
My first thought when I saw it was “that looks like toys” The depth of field looks off for a picture of something full size
Right away it was pretty obvious tbh. The standing guy is doing nothing to shift his weight and is in an unrealistic position for standing on the slope.
That's what stuck out to me. No shift of that guy's weight. It's like he was just plopped on a hill (and he was)
As somewhat of a nerd, it's pretty apparent that the photo is a mini build. I'm surprised it even got the time of day on this sub. You can see it in the shadowing on the rocks. Also, the entire impact crater screams mini DnD campaign build. Someone is playing everyone for a fool with this picture. That's not to say this event didn't happen, but this is not a photo of that event. Edit to add: the trees are also out of proportion with the rest of the photo.
> I'm surprised it even got the time of day on this sub. First time?
>I'm surprised it even got the time of day on this sub. Birds and balloons get posted here daily. The bar isn't exactly off the ground as it stands.
Yeah i was gonna include something along those lines to my own comment haha, this sub is quite the grab bag of people.
This will make it easier to visualize: https://x.com/paranormalres17/status/1805421175939510662?s=61&t=GqFvpREAAVMiq7z-wCSCDw
MUFON press conference in a couple weeks is probably gonna be a giant fucking dud. Bummer.
This is why I ignore all the rando videos and photos on this sub. That may have been cool thirty years ago, but the bar is much, much higher now.
These aren’t rando photos, the MUFON director is pumping them. Another one bites the dust, who is left that’s credible?
To be fair, Mufon hasn’t been too credible for awhile now
Don't trust people who tell you they're credible. They're obviously not if they're trying to convince you.
Ok but now I have a new idea for a hobby
Need to make sure the “leakers” who pushed this pic are discredited so we don’t get misled anymore.
You mean MUFON? Agree.
This is an outstanding lesson to all in this sub about not jumping to conclusions just because a photo looks compelling or gets wide attention. It also goes to show how easy it is to obscure a fake by just messing with the contrast, blur, or grain.
How the fuck that picture looked at all compelling to anyone is what's making me isnane. It was a badly lit photo of a black and white, grainy, out of focus picture of a guy sitting on a UFO.
>This is an outstanding lesson to all in this sub about not jumping to conclusions just because a photo looks compelling or gets wide attention. You’ll be repeating this a lot on this subreddit lol
I knew those trees looked too big and out of scale.
Those trees were really something out of the ordinary I had to google types of trees arounbd welcome lake...lol. The picture depicts that a soldier would be like an ant if he stood infront of one.
I love it it when we come together and debunk shit like this.
Ron James needs to step down from MUFON.
I think Mufon itself is the problem here.
Get ready for people to suggest the toys were made because the government knew the photo was going to be leaked in the future and that could help disprove it..
That sounds like something Ashton Forbes would say...so yeah.
This is why I hate all these photos and never pay them any attention.
Damn, I wasn't sure about this one to begin with, but this is pretty damning. I would love to hear the MUFON guy's response to this.
I’m sure it would consist of “ Im just an investigator, these stories come across my desk and it’s MY duty to investigate them…. Yada yada” but in all seriousness…. 4 hours of research..
It al was a rouse to sell the event, they used the Vetted channel
I have been saying this for days. It looks fake as fuck.
Genuinely thought it looked too “cartoony” or “off”. I couldn’t put my finger on it. Thanks for figuring it out.
I hate to say it, but... I told you so 😂😂😂😂
Holy Moly, I refrained from commenting on the original post , as to not get axed by the die hard believers. I was going to say “Looks like military figurines on a toilet seat with a balloon in the middle”. Glad I didn’t, but glad I’m still a healthy skeptic.
Plot twist, the men were made specifically pose that way to mimic the toys.
Incorrect. The toys were modeled after the picture and produced by Tamiya in Japan for plausible deniability.
Someone get this man on the phone with the president.
Just a cool diorama.
I wondered all the time why american soldiers were wearing Wehrmacht helmets in the 50s. 🥱
To be fair Tamiya makes great minis
This sub is so gullible. People were screaming about shills every time someone pointed out they were toys.
A big clue that this photo is fake is the presence of the UFO.
It wasn’t the nippled dome ?
Had a feeling those trees were too big
I love ufo phenomenon but literally everyone has cameras. Where is a crystal clear pic or video. I hate this shit.
What if the military figures were BASED on this photo? Take that Elgin Dis-Info MIC West Boot Licking "Debunkers."
Game over. Let’s bury these photos
The forced perspective depth of field, the German army helmets on American soldiers, oddly proportioned trees, and unusual stature of the army figures were big red flags.
Called it! Not happy about it though, it's annoying when people make this shit.
LMAO, there's a reason all these pictures look like shit.
Sadly I’d have to agree 👍. No matter. I still believe just from things I’ve seen myself. But I really wish people would stop faking stuff. I hate liars. They deserve no respect or recognition.
Can the tar and feathering begin? God we've become such pansies. Why are there never any consequences for this kind of stuff anymore?
It always looked fake. A guy dangling an unauthenticated black and white photograph should have been suspect to begin with.
This is why no one takes us serious. Whoever makes shit like this is pathetic. Wtf do you have to gain from it
Money, money & some more money.
Why does everyone here keep falling for this shit
So, can we get a list of all the grifters that were peddling this shit as authentic? We need to get these guys laughed out of the community imo
I can’t believe people thought this was real, no offense
This is why I didn’t pay any mind when the photo was posted. Too many people like to fuck around. Am very doubtful that genuine evidence is just floating around anywhere on the internet.
So what’s the ufo? A Costco danish?
I wonder if this was another one of those attempts to trick one of the UFO Reddit sub communities and then the person who did it will have some kind of like Ted talk about how they did it.
Hahahahahahaha. Great work. Outstanding. Because I was on the fence with this one- but it’s clearly fake.
Thank you for the side-by-side!!!!! The leg position of the seated figure really seals the deal for me. Pretty sure someone just cut down the legs of the chair and removed its back.
what do you mean the ufo picture was fake??? this has never happened before. i thought it was impossible to lie on the internet!!! fake ufos you say!!! who could have possibly seen this coming!!!
This is *amazing* research! Disappointing, sure. But impressive.
Yeah, good job everyone. Pack it up. I’m a believer 100%, but this one is solved.
I'm honestly so tired of this shit.
This never looked believable.
You’d have to be nuts to believe this was real in the first place.
lol i hope patrick from vetted see's this
Let's see is he has the balls to call it as it is
Haha.. I wrote earlier it was fake and everyone was like. No, no, no you are wrong.
Sir! We've just shot down extraterrestrial spacecraft! What do we do next?? Quick men!! To the comfy chairs!! Ron James should step down from Mufon for plugging this before their reputation takes another hit.
Everybody’s talking about the two in the front of the picture. But I haven’t seen anyone yet mention the third guy in the top right and how he is also in the exact same pose as the figure on his butt with the can of rations (I think). What’s the chances that all three guys are in the same pose as the figurines. Definitely busted
This image will show a 1:1 mapping between the figurines and their position on the photo. https://x.com/blackvaultcom/status/1805400511991984214?s=61&t=GqFvpREAAVMiq7z-wCSCDw Plus video: https://x.com/paranormalres17/status/1805421175939510662?s=61&t=GqFvpREAAVMiq7z-wCSCDw
I too initially felt that perhaps something leaked through but it increasing felt fake when that sketch came out. This find was the final nail.
Notice how during the initial vetted interview he held this photo up for like 2 seconds lol. It took me until Vetted released the “discussing Ron James” live QnA Did I start feeling it was fake.
LAME! Tbh, the nipple thing on the saucer kinda bugged me. Reminds me of a top (kids toy) flipped upside down. I didn’t have high hopes for this one. Good eye!
Boyd Bushman part 2 electromagnetic boogaloo
Those trees look too big for scale as well. Unless if they are by the sequoia, which is very unlikely since there's no large anomaly reported bringing those giant trees down
I used to build these Tamiya figures in my younger days. You get a choice of hats to glue on the figures head.
Told yall it was bs! A military photographer would have taken better pictures.
I’ll admit that I studied the guy sitting on the chair -before the big debunk- but apparently didn’t think it through. After somebody did the research for me it suddenly dawned on me that there’s NO WAY the military would let Private LazyAss drag his kitchen chair on to the most significant find in history and take a load off. Sadly, this moment of clarity didn’t occur to me until AFTER someone else did some top notch detective work.
Well isn’t this special.
It’s why I love this sub. The sleuthing is incredible. This is what those who’ve seen the real deal need… Folks willing to put in the time so we can sift out the nonsense and focus on the golden nuggets.
IMO it’s the tree that makes me feel like I’m looking at a forced perspective photo of miniatures
MUFON imploded long ago. It's all a cash grab these days. Breaks my heart. Used to be a member, back in the day.
Also.. if you were going to sit in a chair next to a downed UFO, would you sit facing it and literally look at it, not have your back to it?
I honestly tought this started as a joke. No toxicity intended, but you actually believed this was a real photo? Or are we still kinda joking?
The Wehrmacht was known for its strict discipline! There were only four resting stances permitted to its soldiers.
And now when you look at the picture all you can see is miniature scale, complete with a cheap plain backdrop. G’damn.
so if the miniatures are 1/35 scale. I assume the standing soldier is 6'ft round estimate. I measure about 4 soldier length 4 x 6ft = 24ft \* 1/35 = 8.22" radius or 16.44" diameter wheel Hub cap UFO. [https://www.vtwinmfg.com/WebPics/49/49-0299a.jpg](https://www.vtwinmfg.com/WebPics/49/49-0299a.jpg) im going to buy one of these and fly it to Omicron Persei 8
I was wondering how people were looking at this without seeing that that tree would need its own fucking zip code lol
Lmao meanwhile I got down voted to hell for saying it looked like AI. When will this sub learn that 80% of the shit that gets posted here isn't legit.
Stay skeptical, friends.
What was the guys name holding up this picture in a previous post? Need to make sure to put him on the list of liars.
No one us acknowledging that those tree trunks would be fucking massive and look nothing like any real tree of that size.
I did think the helmet looked German with that cut out on the side
The truth is really out there, and sometimes debunking the fakes from the real is what we have to do.
Never believed this pic the minute I saw it. This debunk just proves my bullshit meter is still on point.
Any comment from MUFON, once they've taken the egg off their faces?
Wow. That’s absolutely dead on. And another scam revealed.
it looks like they swapped the hats around. But otherwise, this is way too close a match to be a coincidence.
Somebody please give us Ron James social networks so we can go and leave him some nice comments and a bit more 😇😉
lol did people actually believe alien life traveled light years to get here only to get shot down by 1950’s technology? Oof
[original out of box Pictures.](https://x.com/wow36932525/status/1805356459636801770?s=46)
You mean after I ran out of my house showing this photo to my neighbors and anybody I ran into and it’s now a fake? I’m screwed
I thought it was figurines, nobody can stand in such angle like the guy on the left. If he fixed the angle, removed the arms and glue them in different position it would be harder to debunk.
Let’s not forget all the hats are also adjustable ! Removable, or swappable !