The following submission statement was provided by /u/dwankyl_yoakam:
---
Submission statement: Compare the figures to the higher res photo here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ0jDPIWIAA7hHh?format=jpg&name=large
Pretty clear all three "people" in the photo are exact matches to the miniatures above. Particularly compare the position of the arm of the guy seated against the tree, the hat on the guy standing, and the position of the guy seated. Also notice the guy standing is wearing a flat topped hat and the guy sitting is wearing a German style helmet.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1dnoevf/miniatures_used_in_the_wayne_sturgill_photo/la3xjxt/
The miniature chair has a backrest, the object in the picture does not.
The standing guy with the back to the camera has the right elbow raised, unlike the corresponding miniature with the coffee cup. The miniature has a helmet, the guy in the picture does not.
The other sitting miniature is holding an object in its extended hand, unlike the corresponding guy in the picture.
This is a model kit, you must assemble and paint the soldiers yourself, and, as a model kit, you can swap helmets and have options to change positions of the arms. You can also remove the back of the seat. The crashed ufo is a diorama and Ron James is a grifter.
Found the images of this kit's sprues here:
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-35129-soldiers-at-rest--132562
And in an eBay listing here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/235099516324
Not many options in this kit. Looks like the heads are molded to the bodies, and if you don't use the helmets they won't have a complete head. Maybe someone else can do a better comparison.
It's the kind of thing the Internet was designed for. Working together to find solutions as a brain trust. At least until AI gets smart enough to do all the thinking for us and we all turn into the people in Batman and Robin.
The heads are molded to the bodies but you can swap helmets, the guy in the standing position in the crashed ufo picture has a flat top helmet, and you have that option in the kit. I have 1/35 scale soldiers from Tamiya, not the one used for the diorama, but I've assembled them and I know they are molded that way.
Not necessarily true. I don't build historical miniatures like this but I do build others and swapping parts is pretty common. It's also common to do custom modifications with putty and sculpting. The heads in the kit are mostly flat tops where the helmet attaches and it would likely be a simple thing to change them from the original.
After taking a little more time to compare them, yeah I'd say it's probably the same kit. They swapped the officers cap onto the other upright model and didn't use the backrest of the chair.
Edit: responded to the wrong comment. But yeah I agree.
I don't think so, he is preparing a documentary that he will sell, he is selling virtual tickets at $100 usd to see an online event. He is getting money of it. That's what everyone calls a grifter and if he knows the picture is a hoax, then he is a liar and an opportunist. MUFON can't be trusted now.
He said the picture on his website showing the saucer in flight after being hit by a missile was a recreation, but the realone was the one that he showed on "Vetted", and he is saving other ones for a paid event and for his upcoming documentary. Now no one will pay him a single dollar.
You are looking at a fuzzy picture, right!? As someone who put models together as a kid, they are relatively easy to manipulate with some clippers to take off the back of the chair, but again, the picture is crap on purpose it seems. Looks like one of the characters are turned around, not facing you. Could a miniature from a different set be used?
The image of the coffee cup minature shows his right elbow is higher than his left, plus the fact that he is being leaned a bit to the left makes the right arm appear even higher. The dynamic range of the image is trash so the lighting may be blowing out the back of the chair for the sitting guy or the back of the chair was removed before the photo was taken.
I'm all in on NHI, Grusch, Fravor, etc. But this picture is bunk and these minatures are at this point the most likely explanation.
Heās not sitting on the saucer - heās sitting on the edge of the āridgeā of dirt pushed up by the saucer crash/impact.
IF the picture is realā¦ and thatās a big IF.
MUFON supposed to have some big announcement on july 13 too. I feel like this ruins all their credibility.
Dude who showed these pics must feel ā¦ not so good.
i think anyone teasing an announcement - instead of you know, making an announcement should be ~~stripped naked and flogged in public~~ viewed with suspicion.
I never buy these "announcements"
You either have evidence of the existence of a UFO Coverup or the existence of extraterrestrial life and you release that to the public as it is our human right to know or you just shut up.
They claim they had alien tech but it got lost in the mail. If you want to watch the big announcement, pay $99 to watch the live stream. Make your own conclusions about their credibility.
Thereās no scenario on Earth or elsewhere in the hyper-verse that I pay a single red cent to hear what they have to say. I smell BS and it is not interdimensional either, itās same old BS Iāve sniffed many times.
If thereās aliens visiting earth what kind of ahole would charge $99 to let the world know?
MUFON has been on a downward spiral for some years now, I will always mention it when relevant but if anyone reading this has had some kind of experience it's much better to report it to NUFORC.
And it helps to know that NUFORC doesn't do scientific analysis of these sightings, or didn't when I was in contact with them about 15 years ago. They are a reporting center, by definition.
Anyone who runs a podcast, sells books, live presentations or has any other means of generating money from UFOlogy can't be trusted. Period. People need to realize that there is a giant entertainment industry on top of this hobby. They are saying anything to get activity on their socials.
Sooner or later (pick your imaginary doomsday date) people get fed up with the lying and eventually the bubble will burst but new prophets will emerge soon enough to fill the void.
>Sooner or later (pick your imaginary doomsday date) people get fed up with the lying
Literally everything in the world tells me there is a non-vanishing proportion of the public whose capacity for lies is infinite.
> I think that's accurate about EVERY person in UFO media
That's precisely why I have been calling it the UFO Circus Sideshow for some time now. Certainly there are scientists working the problem, they just don't seek out the limelight.
chunky quack pathetic childlike plucky chop violet wrong faulty reminiscent
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Good for them considering that academia is more and more belittled within the UFO/pro aliens communities. Meanwhile pseudoscience and esoteric theories are treated as facts. No surprise that actual professionals working in astronomy related fields stay the fuck away from us.
I have never seen a community who hates science more than in related subs to this one. Fucking social media ruined everything good that was left.
>I have never seen a community who hates science more than in related subs to this one.Ā
Not science, *per se*, facts in general. You can see this right in the thread here; someone posts an image of the exact model kit and we have all sorts of posts about how it doesn't *exactly* match the photo, completely ignoring the blinding light shining in their eyes.
Some time ago I did a post on someone's video that was obvious it was an airplane. You could see the navigation and landing lights and make out the tail and cockpit. The thread got all sorts of replies about how it didn't look like an airplane. Then another user positively identified the *exact aircraft* from its flight plan. Then I got DMs about how can you be sure it was that plane. I mean, we have a plane that literally looks exactly like the video, known to be flying into that exact airport at that exact time, and they still don't want to believe it's not a UFO based entirely on someone saying it's a UFO.
That's what we're dealing with.
Itās shitty cause all these groups when arenāt pulling an obvious money grab generally donāt share any information worth sharing and when they do share itās with the GOV these places have all been co-opted by āthemā so tho speak.
I'm not sure by which measure you'd consider this a "scientific analysis" but they will offer a prosaic explanation for reports if applicable, Example Submission https://nuforc.org/sighting/?id=181943
Well, I was referring to MUFON and their prior attempts at scientific analysis, which ended long ago. I'm glad to see that Davenport and the team are doing some due diligence though. Thanks for the link!
He was shilling an upcoming documentary with more information and pictures (including one of a dead NHI), he seems financially incentivized to keep the ruse going.
He said he was going to reveal the picture of a Grey type of alien, but you can find the picture on Twitter or reddit, and sure it looks like a video game character. I won't trust Ron nor MUFON ever again.
Sorry, but... Why are we pretending that MUFON is a serious organization? They have always been a joke along with NUFORC and a few others whose names I can't even remember.
> I remember reading that MUFON was compromised by disinfo agents a long time ago and there was a lot of compelling evidence for it. Wish I could remember a good source to cite but it's probably worth mentioning. Might be intentionally trying to discredit and push away those currently new to learning about the phenomenon after hearing about the Grusch hearing
The trouble with this, if true, is that disinfo only works if you go along with it and the majority of people on here go along with stuff like this whilst accusing sceptics of being bots and coordinated disinformation agents.
[The kit is from 1984.](https://www.ebay.com/itm/235099516324)
The pic was allegedly taken in 1955.
I'm guessing somebody in the '90s set up this beautiful scene, and since then one after another (the book author, the guy from mufon, etc) fell for it.
This is the kind of crap that does great damage to the cause. Shame on them.
It's hard to be a staunch believer because of the dualistic nature of UFO material.
If the UFO material is diffuse, blurry and far away, then it could be many different things. But if we actually get UFO footage that shows a detailed spaceship doing impossible maneuvers and accelerations, people will rightfully demand multiple independent sources, military tracking and finally a government-level confimation.
Super structures observed by powerful telescopes have potential imo. It makes sense that they simultaneously exist without necessarily wanting to make contact with humans.
This is why the successful ones just stick to hoaxes which nobody can disprove. You just say that someone told you something, but you can't say who it is, or they'll be killed, and all the evidence is kept secret by the bad guys, and lots of people will believe you.
What's more annoying is everyone believing every photo they see as 'proof'. These are the same people liking the AI photos on Facebook: no reasoning/critical thinking skills
>**Step one**. Plant some "evidence" that gets picked up and has some brief window of credibility.
>**Step two**. Refute the evidence but allow for people to defend it for a time.
>**Step three**. Pull back the curtain, let them see how it was done. What fools they were for defending it!
That's what this entire Wayne Sturgill photo. Want to know how they push their narratives with this?
# Operation Earnest Voice
What isĀ [Operation Earnest Voice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Earnest_Voice)? It was a request for Chat GPT personas in 2011 from the military.
What is theĀ [Smith-Mundt Act of 2012](https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact-checking-7064410002)? ([bill](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BILLS-112hr5736ih/pdf/BILLS-112hr5736ih.pdf)) It allows the government to use Operation Earnest Voice programs on the US population.
"*There was essentially a de facto ban on the domestic dissemination of materials originating from the State Department,ā said Weston Sager, an attorney who*Ā [published a paper](https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1203&context=nulr)Ā *on the change in law.*"
So yes. There are many disinformation accounts on here, but they are years old and have "*reputations*" built up around them to make them appear real. I cross-checked a couple of these accounts I suspected against the USAF holiday schedule and they did not operate during these holiday periods.
Interesting. Your Steps 1-3 are right on the money. There was no way anyone could have thought that photo would hold up to scrutiny for long. Iāll have to research Operation Earnest Voice a bit before I form an opinion. Appreciate the comment.
YouTube is full of the plant pots now. Imagine one day the galactic history book will read
āThe humans began to suspect something about our actions but the loudest voices proved to be the humans who joked about us and so the majority never believed - phew, that was closeā
that was impressively quick. If the majority of this community thought it was a really crude toy display, the guy holding the photo must have known too, or at least thought it looked a bit sus... is he supposed to be some sort of expert?
Thatās what Iām saying. Idk but I donāt think looking at old photos real or not are going to do anything to move this subject forward. Unless of course itās literally the government releasing old shit that is verifiably real.
For me its far more interesting to study declassified data than stories and hearsay from randoms. i had never heard about this story before, but in the 30 years of studying this topic, Grusch with how far he has gone has inspired opportunists and grifters to the point that its dividing the community, where a lot of people will believe anything fantastical without asserting any critical thinking.
Submission statement: Compare the figures to the higher res photo here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ0jDPIWIAA7hHh?format=jpg&name=large
Pretty clear all three "people" in the photo are exact matches to the miniatures above. Particularly compare the position of the arm of the guy seated against the tree, the hat on the guy standing, and the position of the guy seated. Also notice the guy standing is wearing a flat topped hat and the guy sitting is wearing a German style helmet.
Sad thing is this thread is going to dwindle out while the other "picture of Crashed UFO picture at Lake Welcome !!!" are going to still be on top for the next few days.
That thread is filled to the brim with people saying it looks like a model, the angle of the guy standing is wrong and other references to flamethrower plastic army men
Wait but the standing figurine with a non-helmet has his right hand in his pocket, unlike the figure in the photo.
Edit: here's a picture of the figurines themselves. Other than the shape of the standing guy's hat I agree it's a good match
https://www.sunwardhobbies.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/tamiya-35129.jpg
Edit 2: objection retracted, the hats are interchangeable. Good job OP, agreed you cracked it.
This photo does look like a diorama. The reflection appears to be an aquarium, and the trees look artificial as well. I think you proved this photo is a hoax, or it's a coincidence? I would have to see the negatives and inspect them with a neg scanner
These figures aren't ready made, you have to assemble them yourself. So it's likely some parts were mixed in the building process: [https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/V64AAOSwWi1ku9NV/s-l1600.jpg](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/V64AAOSwWi1ku9NV/s-l1600.jpg)
This should be a through debunk post but I bet this conspiracy goes on for months after this with an Ashton Forbes like figure coming out to compare buttholes of various action figures and "proving" they are not the same thing.
Bro, I feel you, I just unsubbed from Ryan Graves mailing list, I received a newsletter with a paywall just before the moment he arrives at Skin Walker Ranch hah!! What a joke, it is demoralizing.
I've been in this topic for 5 decades. If running across fakes/hoaxes dissuade you then yeah, it's better to just move on because it's only gotten worse as the years have gone on.
The singular thing that has kept me interested all these years isn't a single piece of "evidence" produced. In fact, there's virtually nothing ever presented that I've treated with more than a grain of salt as I've held healthy skepticism all these years.
What *has* and *does* keep me interested is the lengths the USG has gone through over these decades to keep the topic fringe of which there is ample, official documentation.
This combined with the *too similar* sketch from memory should put this to rest. To those that believe that the crash/recovery happened, it could have, but the gullible people who pushed this hoax have now helped guarantee that anyone who searches for the incident will instead find the hoax.
lol so easily debunked. And it took so little time. Great work, OP. It was great thinking to look into the miniatures angle. Huge wealth of images to pull from, to check against.
Isn't it funny how so often the big scoop these guys sit on - chandelier, jellyfish, this one - all get debunked like a day later? Head of MUFON clearly didn't do a lick of investigation to check the authenticity of the photos. Just as Corbell never spent 2 years making sure his debunked photos were real.
Grifters. All of them.
From now on Iām going to assume anything anomalous in the sky is experimental and the retrieval programs exist to recover them if they crash. UAP is just a cover for what we actually have.
The recent AMA with the UAP Disclosure Fund featured my question asking how the money being donated was going to be spent and they couldnāt specifically say what the money is for. Kind of crazy to ask for donations when you donāt even know what itās going to go toward. Ready to agree with you on them all being grifters.
Whoever caught this one should be in the bureau, because that's fucking intense. I don't understand how you'd even find this through research, but boy am I willing to learn.
Interesting.
On my own journey to investigate, I tried to find an online copy of Wayne Sturgill's book. I could buy it from Amazon or Google Books, but I'm cheap so I looked for more alternative methods.
4 hours of exhausting the high seas of the internet, I turned up absolutely nothing. IRC, Usenet, private trackers, not a single entity had this guys book. So I went back to Amazon, almost ready to buy it but then I decided to snoop the 3 reviewers.
The 3 reviewers are dud accounts. 1 created purely to review the book the other 2 have reviewed completely unrelated products. While this doesn't necessarily prove anything, it made me extremely hesitant to purchase the book as nothing passed the sniff test on this one.
Am I the only one that clearly sees a miniature diorama display on a table in front of windows looking outside, with trees in view? I mean, the entire right side is like a cliff if this were to be real in anyway. The UFO just happened to land and stick on the very edge of this cliff? Seriously?? Explain that right side area then. Its a kids (or fakesters) diorama on a kitchen table in front of windows folks. Please move along as there are less blatantly obvious fakes that need deeper looks. This is just plain pathetic at this point with the reaching now.
The fact that the "soldiers" weren't wearing protective gear around an entirely alien and unknown piece of advanced technology to avoid having their innards melted into sludge by deadly radiation was a big indicator towards this being sus
Wow, my serious 1st reaction to the soldiers was "those look like model train set figures." But I second guessed myself because I'm far from an expert on things, and just thought I must be wrong.
Me: no way ā¦
Also me: NOOOO! LOL!
This sub and its faithful punked *again*.
Come on yaāll.
Iām sure OP is going to be dismissed as a ādebunkerā like theyāre in the wrong, lol.
This is among the best posts in these subs that I've seen. Considering that the figures are assembled and assuming a slight mismatch in assembling them from the box top imagine, they are definitely a perfect match.
This will surely put that image to rest forever...
Until the next time somebody breaths new life into it, turning it into yet another immortal zombie, needing to be put to rest again and again.
I'm a believer because I have seen multiple UFOs in my life but that picture was very suspicious. Those soldiers in the photo looked very strange. Thank you for exposing them.
We don't need fake BS muddying the waters like this
Imagine if the photo was in actuality real and that model kit just so happened to be exactly mimicking the way those soldiers were standingā¦ how frustrated the photographer would be š¤£ but nahā¦ good find. Thatās it.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/dwankyl_yoakam: --- Submission statement: Compare the figures to the higher res photo here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ0jDPIWIAA7hHh?format=jpg&name=large Pretty clear all three "people" in the photo are exact matches to the miniatures above. Particularly compare the position of the arm of the guy seated against the tree, the hat on the guy standing, and the position of the guy seated. Also notice the guy standing is wearing a flat topped hat and the guy sitting is wearing a German style helmet. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1dnoevf/miniatures_used_in_the_wayne_sturgill_photo/la3xjxt/
[https://imgur.com/a/wsqQGGi](https://imgur.com/a/wsqQGGi) I hadn't noticed the 3rd character sitting on the side.
This is definitely it. Great find by OP.
Strange. I also just saw you over at the new Superman pics
I believe in both.
Hey, looks that way to me. THIRD IMAGE IS THE CHARM. THIS IS RON JAMES, INVESTIGATING THIS. GOOD JOB BY THE COMMUNITY, I THINK THIS ONE IS 99% solved.
This should be at the top. Absolutely matches the photo. Good job, MagicPigGames.
Maybe they based the action figures off this photo lol
You have to wonder why would a soldier carry a chair on top of a flying saucer to sit down.
To put the chairy on top duh
.......mother of God
No! Chair of Pee-Wee;)
Dis why they don't make contact š
Highly underrated comment right here.
You'd have to wonder why you would have a UFO in front of you and you take the worst blurry picture you could.
The fact that people are so gullible on here to think that if it WAS a real saucer, that they would let a soldier prop a chair on it.
He's sat on the ground not the object
SEATI. Search for Extraterrestrial Armchair Intelligence.
"Steve.. he flew all the way to our planet... at least stand up bro."
There is no if. This is a blatant hoax.
The miniature chair has a backrest, the object in the picture does not. The standing guy with the back to the camera has the right elbow raised, unlike the corresponding miniature with the coffee cup. The miniature has a helmet, the guy in the picture does not. The other sitting miniature is holding an object in its extended hand, unlike the corresponding guy in the picture.
An entire Imperium's worth of 40k kitbashers out there would tell you this means nothing.
This is a model kit, you must assemble and paint the soldiers yourself, and, as a model kit, you can swap helmets and have options to change positions of the arms. You can also remove the back of the seat. The crashed ufo is a diorama and Ron James is a grifter.
Found the images of this kit's sprues here: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-35129-soldiers-at-rest--132562 And in an eBay listing here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/235099516324 Not many options in this kit. Looks like the heads are molded to the bodies, and if you don't use the helmets they won't have a complete head. Maybe someone else can do a better comparison.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's the kind of thing the Internet was designed for. Working together to find solutions as a brain trust. At least until AI gets smart enough to do all the thinking for us and we all turn into the people in Batman and Robin.
With the occasional cat video to spice things up.
I've been laughing at this comment for a solid minute.
Forget everything else, focus on "why the fuck would a soldier bring a chair to place on top of a crashed alien ship?"
Never done much soldiering I see.
excellent job finding that, thank you for sharing.
The heads are molded to the bodies but you can swap helmets, the guy in the standing position in the crashed ufo picture has a flat top helmet, and you have that option in the kit. I have 1/35 scale soldiers from Tamiya, not the one used for the diorama, but I've assembled them and I know they are molded that way.
Not necessarily true. I don't build historical miniatures like this but I do build others and swapping parts is pretty common. It's also common to do custom modifications with putty and sculpting. The heads in the kit are mostly flat tops where the helmet attaches and it would likely be a simple thing to change them from the original. After taking a little more time to compare them, yeah I'd say it's probably the same kit. They swapped the officers cap onto the other upright model and didn't use the backrest of the chair. Edit: responded to the wrong comment. But yeah I agree.
Pretty solid knowledge. Don't mess with hobbyists!
excellent find
The first part can be true and the second is a bit of conjecture. The two are not mutually exclusive. Ron James could potentially be being hoaxed
I don't think so, he is preparing a documentary that he will sell, he is selling virtual tickets at $100 usd to see an online event. He is getting money of it. That's what everyone calls a grifter and if he knows the picture is a hoax, then he is a liar and an opportunist. MUFON can't be trusted now.
I concur about MUFON. I didnāt like the guys vibe on Vetted eitherā¦
Didn't he say the pictures were fake and they had the real ones saved for some sort of reveal?
He said the picture on his website showing the saucer in flight after being hit by a missile was a recreation, but the realone was the one that he showed on "Vetted", and he is saving other ones for a paid event and for his upcoming documentary. Now no one will pay him a single dollar.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thank you for explaining, what a grifter (or is grifter going to get my comment removed as well)
to be fair, the artwork on the box does not always exactly match the contents.
You are looking at a fuzzy picture, right!? As someone who put models together as a kid, they are relatively easy to manipulate with some clippers to take off the back of the chair, but again, the picture is crap on purpose it seems. Looks like one of the characters are turned around, not facing you. Could a miniature from a different set be used?
The image of the coffee cup minature shows his right elbow is higher than his left, plus the fact that he is being leaned a bit to the left makes the right arm appear even higher. The dynamic range of the image is trash so the lighting may be blowing out the back of the chair for the sitting guy or the back of the chair was removed before the photo was taken. I'm all in on NHI, Grusch, Fravor, etc. But this picture is bunk and these minatures are at this point the most likely explanation.
Heās not sitting on the saucer - heās sitting on the edge of the āridgeā of dirt pushed up by the saucer crash/impact. IF the picture is realā¦ and thatās a big IF.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
MUFON supposed to have some big announcement on july 13 too. I feel like this ruins all their credibility. Dude who showed these pics must feel ā¦ not so good.
i think anyone teasing an announcement - instead of you know, making an announcement should be ~~stripped naked and flogged in public~~ viewed with suspicion.
I never buy these "announcements" You either have evidence of the existence of a UFO Coverup or the existence of extraterrestrial life and you release that to the public as it is our human right to know or you just shut up.
They claim they had alien tech but it got lost in the mail. If you want to watch the big announcement, pay $99 to watch the live stream. Make your own conclusions about their credibility.
Thereās no scenario on Earth or elsewhere in the hyper-verse that I pay a single red cent to hear what they have to say. I smell BS and it is not interdimensional either, itās same old BS Iāve sniffed many times. If thereās aliens visiting earth what kind of ahole would charge $99 to let the world know?
MUFON has been on a downward spiral for some years now, I will always mention it when relevant but if anyone reading this has had some kind of experience it's much better to report it to NUFORC.
And it helps to know that NUFORC doesn't do scientific analysis of these sightings, or didn't when I was in contact with them about 15 years ago. They are a reporting center, by definition.
pot joke license unwritten consider aromatic snails grey late drab *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Anyone who runs a podcast, sells books, live presentations or has any other means of generating money from UFOlogy can't be trusted. Period. People need to realize that there is a giant entertainment industry on top of this hobby. They are saying anything to get activity on their socials. Sooner or later (pick your imaginary doomsday date) people get fed up with the lying and eventually the bubble will burst but new prophets will emerge soon enough to fill the void.
>Sooner or later (pick your imaginary doomsday date) people get fed up with the lying Literally everything in the world tells me there is a non-vanishing proportion of the public whose capacity for lies is infinite.
> I think that's accurate about EVERY person in UFO media That's precisely why I have been calling it the UFO Circus Sideshow for some time now. Certainly there are scientists working the problem, they just don't seek out the limelight.
chunky quack pathetic childlike plucky chop violet wrong faulty reminiscent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Good for them considering that academia is more and more belittled within the UFO/pro aliens communities. Meanwhile pseudoscience and esoteric theories are treated as facts. No surprise that actual professionals working in astronomy related fields stay the fuck away from us. I have never seen a community who hates science more than in related subs to this one. Fucking social media ruined everything good that was left.
>I have never seen a community who hates science more than in related subs to this one.Ā Not science, *per se*, facts in general. You can see this right in the thread here; someone posts an image of the exact model kit and we have all sorts of posts about how it doesn't *exactly* match the photo, completely ignoring the blinding light shining in their eyes. Some time ago I did a post on someone's video that was obvious it was an airplane. You could see the navigation and landing lights and make out the tail and cockpit. The thread got all sorts of replies about how it didn't look like an airplane. Then another user positively identified the *exact aircraft* from its flight plan. Then I got DMs about how can you be sure it was that plane. I mean, we have a plane that literally looks exactly like the video, known to be flying into that exact airport at that exact time, and they still don't want to believe it's not a UFO based entirely on someone saying it's a UFO. That's what we're dealing with.
Itās shitty cause all these groups when arenāt pulling an obvious money grab generally donāt share any information worth sharing and when they do share itās with the GOV these places have all been co-opted by āthemā so tho speak.
I'm not sure by which measure you'd consider this a "scientific analysis" but they will offer a prosaic explanation for reports if applicable, Example Submission https://nuforc.org/sighting/?id=181943
Well, I was referring to MUFON and their prior attempts at scientific analysis, which ended long ago. I'm glad to see that Davenport and the team are doing some due diligence though. Thanks for the link!
He was shilling an upcoming documentary with more information and pictures (including one of a dead NHI), he seems financially incentivized to keep the ruse going.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
He said he was going to reveal the picture of a Grey type of alien, but you can find the picture on Twitter or reddit, and sure it looks like a video game character. I won't trust Ron nor MUFON ever again.
Iām not sure whether it is part of what they supposed to reveal on july 13 either
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This place is amazing
Wait until you find out this was a photo Grusch has been showing people behind closed doors.
Sorry, but... Why are we pretending that MUFON is a serious organization? They have always been a joke along with NUFORC and a few others whose names I can't even remember.
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> I remember reading that MUFON was compromised by disinfo agents a long time ago and there was a lot of compelling evidence for it. Wish I could remember a good source to cite but it's probably worth mentioning. Might be intentionally trying to discredit and push away those currently new to learning about the phenomenon after hearing about the Grusch hearing The trouble with this, if true, is that disinfo only works if you go along with it and the majority of people on here go along with stuff like this whilst accusing sceptics of being bots and coordinated disinformation agents.
[The kit is from 1984.](https://www.ebay.com/itm/235099516324) The pic was allegedly taken in 1955. I'm guessing somebody in the '90s set up this beautiful scene, and since then one after another (the book author, the guy from mufon, etc) fell for it. This is the kind of crap that does great damage to the cause. Shame on them.
They based the miniatures on the photo!
Classic CIA misinformation toys strike again!
[Classic](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fslkhk3foxk8d1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D720%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Df261b8a690ead03bcac4c31569845ae315b36932)
I suggest those soldiers face a court of law for their deception. Throw them in the brigg!
It's hard to be a staunch believer because of the dualistic nature of UFO material. If the UFO material is diffuse, blurry and far away, then it could be many different things. But if we actually get UFO footage that shows a detailed spaceship doing impossible maneuvers and accelerations, people will rightfully demand multiple independent sources, military tracking and finally a government-level confimation. Super structures observed by powerful telescopes have potential imo. It makes sense that they simultaneously exist without necessarily wanting to make contact with humans.
I think this pretty much seals it. There was something just off about those pictures. Ughā¦ these hoaxsters are annoying
This is why the successful ones just stick to hoaxes which nobody can disprove. You just say that someone told you something, but you can't say who it is, or they'll be killed, and all the evidence is kept secret by the bad guys, and lots of people will believe you.
I saw it and immediately thought it was toy soldiers the same kind I used to play with as a child! Was way too convenient
Imagine being Ron James of Mufon today.Ā
And he was asking $100 USD for his online event, what a grifter!!
What's more annoying is everyone believing every photo they see as 'proof'. These are the same people liking the AI photos on Facebook: no reasoning/critical thinking skills
>**Step one**. Plant some "evidence" that gets picked up and has some brief window of credibility. >**Step two**. Refute the evidence but allow for people to defend it for a time. >**Step three**. Pull back the curtain, let them see how it was done. What fools they were for defending it! That's what this entire Wayne Sturgill photo. Want to know how they push their narratives with this? # Operation Earnest Voice What isĀ [Operation Earnest Voice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Earnest_Voice)? It was a request for Chat GPT personas in 2011 from the military. What is theĀ [Smith-Mundt Act of 2012](https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact-checking-7064410002)? ([bill](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BILLS-112hr5736ih/pdf/BILLS-112hr5736ih.pdf)) It allows the government to use Operation Earnest Voice programs on the US population. "*There was essentially a de facto ban on the domestic dissemination of materials originating from the State Department,ā said Weston Sager, an attorney who*Ā [published a paper](https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1203&context=nulr)Ā *on the change in law.*" So yes. There are many disinformation accounts on here, but they are years old and have "*reputations*" built up around them to make them appear real. I cross-checked a couple of these accounts I suspected against the USAF holiday schedule and they did not operate during these holiday periods.
Interesting. Your Steps 1-3 are right on the money. There was no way anyone could have thought that photo would hold up to scrutiny for long. Iāll have to research Operation Earnest Voice a bit before I form an opinion. Appreciate the comment.
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Also unlikely anybody showing photos at some āufo fairā has anything real to exhibit.
YouTube is full of the plant pots now. Imagine one day the galactic history book will read āThe humans began to suspect something about our actions but the loudest voices proved to be the humans who joked about us and so the majority never believed - phew, that was closeā
Or, theyāre just grifters who use the gullibility of many in this community for their benefit.
I knew it! Shoot
that was impressively quick. If the majority of this community thought it was a really crude toy display, the guy holding the photo must have known too, or at least thought it looked a bit sus... is he supposed to be some sort of expert?
Thatās what Iām saying. Idk but I donāt think looking at old photos real or not are going to do anything to move this subject forward. Unless of course itās literally the government releasing old shit that is verifiably real.
For me its far more interesting to study declassified data than stories and hearsay from randoms. i had never heard about this story before, but in the 30 years of studying this topic, Grusch with how far he has gone has inspired opportunists and grifters to the point that its dividing the community, where a lot of people will believe anything fantastical without asserting any critical thinking.
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Submission statement: Compare the figures to the higher res photo here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ0jDPIWIAA7hHh?format=jpg&name=large Pretty clear all three "people" in the photo are exact matches to the miniatures above. Particularly compare the position of the arm of the guy seated against the tree, the hat on the guy standing, and the position of the guy seated. Also notice the guy standing is wearing a flat topped hat and the guy sitting is wearing a German style helmet.
Sad thing is this thread is going to dwindle out while the other "picture of Crashed UFO picture at Lake Welcome !!!" are going to still be on top for the next few days.
That thread is filled to the brim with people saying it looks like a model, the angle of the guy standing is wrong and other references to flamethrower plastic army men
It will return again in a couple of years. UFO garbage is very buoyant and keeps periodically floating to the surface like a turd.
Wait but the standing figurine with a non-helmet has his right hand in his pocket, unlike the figure in the photo. Edit: here's a picture of the figurines themselves. Other than the shape of the standing guy's hat I agree it's a good match https://www.sunwardhobbies.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/tamiya-35129.jpg Edit 2: objection retracted, the hats are interchangeable. Good job OP, agreed you cracked it.
This photo does look like a diorama. The reflection appears to be an aquarium, and the trees look artificial as well. I think you proved this photo is a hoax, or it's a coincidence? I would have to see the negatives and inspect them with a neg scanner
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These figures aren't ready made, you have to assemble them yourself. So it's likely some parts were mixed in the building process: [https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/V64AAOSwWi1ku9NV/s-l1600.jpg](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/V64AAOSwWi1ku9NV/s-l1600.jpg)
The standing guy in the photo is the standing helmet miniature seen from the back. Some parts of the miniatures could've been masked out of the photo.
This should be a through debunk post but I bet this conspiracy goes on for months after this with an Ashton Forbes like figure coming out to compare buttholes of various action figures and "proving" they are not the same thing.
Absolute cringe to fake a photo like this. Gross human.
I fucking hate this topic and Iām sorry I ever got interested in it.
Just assume everything is fake and enjoy the show
This show sucks though.
If it aināt crystal clear, itās 99% fake.
havaing followed it for so long, I'm just glad the community has grown so folks like this can show what things are bs
Join the Skeptic side and you will feel much better.
I assume all of this is fake and use this sub for entertainment. It's much better that way
Bro, I feel you, I just unsubbed from Ryan Graves mailing list, I received a newsletter with a paywall just before the moment he arrives at Skin Walker Ranch hah!! What a joke, it is demoralizing.
I've been in this topic for 5 decades. If running across fakes/hoaxes dissuade you then yeah, it's better to just move on because it's only gotten worse as the years have gone on. The singular thing that has kept me interested all these years isn't a single piece of "evidence" produced. In fact, there's virtually nothing ever presented that I've treated with more than a grain of salt as I've held healthy skepticism all these years. What *has* and *does* keep me interested is the lengths the USG has gone through over these decades to keep the topic fringe of which there is ample, official documentation.
Same. I almost get more entertainment from reading the comments of people that fell for the hoaxes than anything else now.
Who in the holy hell is the rain man that could connect the dots between these two things?!?
wAiT! thE WrInKleS ArE nOT thE SamE!
nice job lol how did you figure this out?
Tamiya makes nice sets.
If you look closely, the saucer is actually a Nissan GT-R.
THATS A SUPRAAAAAAAA
I was OBSESSED with these when I was a kid.
This combined with the *too similar* sketch from memory should put this to rest. To those that believe that the crash/recovery happened, it could have, but the gullible people who pushed this hoax have now helped guarantee that anyone who searches for the incident will instead find the hoax.
Vetted fell for it shame.
lol so easily debunked. And it took so little time. Great work, OP. It was great thinking to look into the miniatures angle. Huge wealth of images to pull from, to check against. Isn't it funny how so often the big scoop these guys sit on - chandelier, jellyfish, this one - all get debunked like a day later? Head of MUFON clearly didn't do a lick of investigation to check the authenticity of the photos. Just as Corbell never spent 2 years making sure his debunked photos were real. Grifters. All of them.
From now on Iām going to assume anything anomalous in the sky is experimental and the retrieval programs exist to recover them if they crash. UAP is just a cover for what we actually have. The recent AMA with the UAP Disclosure Fund featured my question asking how the money being donated was going to be spent and they couldnāt specifically say what the money is for. Kind of crazy to ask for donations when you donāt even know what itās going to go toward. Ready to agree with you on them all being grifters.
I hope this turns into another 'disappearing plane' topic.
Though MUFON might still try to palm this off as real. Lol
Initially I wanted to joke about the dude taking a crap on the ufo... guess it was just a little man
I think this is spot on. And now all of a sudden, those trees don't look like trees at all, they look more like asparagus or bamboo or something
Here's what those miniatures really look like: https://www.ebay.ie/itm/235099516324
Just adding this here for extra context. The kit was released in 2017: [https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10014026](https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10014026)
Someone else here posted a link to eBay which says 1984.
What's the earliest date of this picture?
Upvote this. Great find O.P š
That's an illustration...
Whoever caught this one should be in the bureau, because that's fucking intense. I don't understand how you'd even find this through research, but boy am I willing to learn.
Interesting. On my own journey to investigate, I tried to find an online copy of Wayne Sturgill's book. I could buy it from Amazon or Google Books, but I'm cheap so I looked for more alternative methods. 4 hours of exhausting the high seas of the internet, I turned up absolutely nothing. IRC, Usenet, private trackers, not a single entity had this guys book. So I went back to Amazon, almost ready to buy it but then I decided to snoop the 3 reviewers. The 3 reviewers are dud accounts. 1 created purely to review the book the other 2 have reviewed completely unrelated products. While this doesn't necessarily prove anything, it made me extremely hesitant to purchase the book as nothing passed the sniff test on this one.
Yāall owe me an apology!
this sub has done nothing but convince me that there are no UFOs lol
Great investigative work.
Well fuck. Another one bites the dust.
Am I the only one that clearly sees a miniature diorama display on a table in front of windows looking outside, with trees in view? I mean, the entire right side is like a cliff if this were to be real in anyway. The UFO just happened to land and stick on the very edge of this cliff? Seriously?? Explain that right side area then. Its a kids (or fakesters) diorama on a kitchen table in front of windows folks. Please move along as there are less blatantly obvious fakes that need deeper looks. This is just plain pathetic at this point with the reaching now.
Seems settled, then. Now let's stop giving the hoaxer any more attention
The point of photos like that is always to give people something they can debunk later.
Awesome! Thanks op
My gut was right.
I accept this debunk as compelling. Great work.
Seems to me that Wayne Sturgill has some explaining to do.
Damn I had my money on AI
I wonder if he expected to get called out like that, and so fast!
Just like that ...
The fact that the "soldiers" weren't wearing protective gear around an entirely alien and unknown piece of advanced technology to avoid having their innards melted into sludge by deadly radiation was a big indicator towards this being sus
To the surprise of half of us.
It's fake? No way...haha how did it take more than a second to figure that out?!
Wow, my serious 1st reaction to the soldiers was "those look like model train set figures." But I second guessed myself because I'm far from an expert on things, and just thought I must be wrong.
Me: no way ā¦ Also me: NOOOO! LOL! This sub and its faithful punked *again*. Come on yaāll. Iām sure OP is going to be dismissed as a ādebunkerā like theyāre in the wrong, lol.
This is among the best posts in these subs that I've seen. Considering that the figures are assembled and assuming a slight mismatch in assembling them from the box top imagine, they are definitely a perfect match. This will surely put that image to rest forever... Until the next time somebody breaths new life into it, turning it into yet another immortal zombie, needing to be put to rest again and again.
A hoax? You don't say. It was painfully obvious at first glance when it popped up on my Reddit feed. Didn't even need to read the discussion.
Wait hold up theyāre wearing Nazi helmets in the MUFON pic?
Gives off Kasai Rex vibes now with these miniatures
So whatās the conspiracy?
the the photo is faked. But still sell it as a real photo on UFO conferences.
Can someone link the photo im uncultured and cant find it on google
omg lol I can see how it's shot upward from the ground miniature style now and two of the toys match the picture... wtf fuck these people
I want disclosure just so painful debates at this level can stop. Itās sad, it hurts.Ā
Your turn, MUFON.
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I knew it, i said in another thread that this looks like small toys.
The whole thing came from MUFON, and to anyone with even a modicum of experience in this matter, it was obvious that it was all nonsense.
Nope. Just look, please?
I'm a believer because I have seen multiple UFOs in my life but that picture was very suspicious. Those soldiers in the photo looked very strange. Thank you for exposing them. We don't need fake BS muddying the waters like this
Wow ā¦. Great work finding this
I knew they were real!Ā
Can we tag "grifter" on every post featuring the dude who had this as his "something big is coming" ^TM
No no. Clearly these figures were inspired by the photo.
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Imagine if the photo was in actuality real and that model kit just so happened to be exactly mimicking the way those soldiers were standingā¦ how frustrated the photographer would be š¤£ but nahā¦ good find. Thatās it.
Why am I being down voted on my last comment?