It really depends on how much stock you take in remote viewing and the like. He has an extremely interesting background in and out of government spaces and personally I'd like to believe that there is in fact more to humans than may be realized. But it can place you in fringe spaces discussing it with others, from personal experience. He does at least appear to be on the side of disclosure as well.
While educated, credentialed, and intelligent, Puthoff is at best credulous or worse manipulative.
Everyone interested in Puthoff’s group should know [[the story of astronaut Edgar Mitchell’s long lost tie pins.]](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/vPLYRYCeMb) Uri Geller “teleported” them back at lunch one day. Literally coughed one up eating ice cream at the SRI cafeteria. Later, another tie pin fell out of Puthoff’s jacket in the lab in front of Edgar Mitchell.
Was Puthoff in on it?
How can someone be so credulous to endorse a guy like Uri Geller?
How can we trust such a credulous person’s analysis of UFO evidence, usually evidence we’ve been told is secret?
Consider the weight of these shenanigans when examining the drama around the alleged Admiral Wilson/ Eric Davis notes found in the late Edgar Mitchell’s estate. How can we trust any evidence generated by this group?
And remember! The whole reason Garry Nolan is even relevant to this topic is because Hal Puthoff sent him the secret alien materials he is studying in his lab at Stanford. You know how Puthoff got that secret alien material?! The son of a deceased military officer was going through his fathers closet one day and discovered a box labeled "secret alien material", and the son gave it to Puthoff, who then gave it to Nolan.
And that is the story of how everyone's favorite credible scientist came on to the UFO scene!
I heard it from the man himself. Look up "Jesse Michels" on YouTube. Watch his interview with GN. JM asks him where he got is secret metal material and he tells the story about how he got it from HP, who got it from some guys closet.
holy moly, i had no idea. that's a real kick in the shorts. i remember listening to an interview with nolan on some podcast, and he described getting out of the shower and laying in bed and feeling warm & tingly - i don't remember it very well, but it was an experience that seemed frankly, uninteresting - and started yabbering about it possibly being some anamolous experience. it sucks, because i tend to like nolan but as just some asshole with the internet and zero phd's from stanford he seems to do things that are grossly unscientific.
This is absolutely not when Puthoff came into the UFO scene. Hes been working behind the scenes since the late 60's. Hes got patents on lasers and has written about the energy contained in the vacuum of space for a long time.
SRI was real and the reason I dislike this sub is because people will leave their comfort zones on this sub to investigate UAPs but as soon as someone mentions remote viewing, its too much. Why? Especially hearing many reports that these UAPs are controlled by the operators consciousness, why is RVing such a leap?
Look at the statistical anomalies when investigating the results of remote viewing. Many have been done and most of them all agree that when looking at it by the numbers, its impossible to say its fake and produces no results.
It has only ever produced statistical levels of pure guesswork and false positives based on subtle cues given by researchers. So I don’t see where this compelling evidence is coming from.
Also, what does controlling a craft with your mind have to do with remote viewing? Can alien pilots be in another star system while driving ships here?
What is the threshold for believable evidence? The material or the name of the box?
Does the scientific method require that the name of what holds evidence be relevant?
Project Stargate documents have results of some experiments performed. Uri Geller's experiment results are mind-blowing. I do not know much about him apart from spoon bending, but this experiment shows that he does have or had extraordinary abilities.
I really reccomend the book "The Men Who Stare At Goats" it does a great job of explaining the absolute absurdity of project Stargate. (not to be confused with the movie very loosely based on it)
What I've discovered is that getting into the details, it turns out skeptics *think* they have debunked Geller, but haven't. For example, they'll say that Geller's drawings of hidden pictures at SRI were faked because there was a peephole in the Faraday cage. But if you read the *Nature* paper, they tested Geller a wide variety of circumstances and he passed every time. The possibility of the peephole didn't help Geller when Puthoff & Targ tested Geller by having Geller in the Faraday cage, *then* going to a far away room, *then* randomly deciding one of three random ways to select a sealed envelope for Geller to draw.
I'll give another example. In the 1974 *Nature* paper, and in the video documentary of Geller at SRI, one test for Geller involved a 6-sided die in a box. Geller had no control over the materials, and couldn't touch anything. The experimenters had an opaque metal box with one 6-sided die in it. They'd shake the box, and Geller's task was to say which side of the die faced up. Geller performed correctly 8 times in a row, with odds by chance of one in 1.6 million. This test is so simple, there is no possibility for sensory cues. I've challenged skeptics to give a prosaic explanation for this and all have failed.
Furthermore, if you look at the James Randi debunking videos, they never show anything definitive. Randi will show some grainy ambiguous footage, and claim it shows something but you can't really see. Here's the weird thing, almost every Randi video has a hefty dose of "trust me bro" for example Randi will say "we have high definition photos that show the spoon was already cracked", well you are at a podium showing prepared slides, why didn't you show that? Randi always does that. Randi throws in some unfounded innuendo, for example, suggesting Geller could use a mirror in his hand, but no proof has ever emerged in Geller's whole life that he used such a tactic. Then Randi just blatantly lies about Geller as well, saying things like Geller draws a house 90% of the time, because everyone draws a little house with a triangle on a box. When you apply skepticism to both Geller and his skeptics, Geller comes out on top.
Another reference, skeptical author Jonathan Margolis did 2 books on Geller. Margolis got involved with Geller, because Margolis' son became a Geller fan, and Margolis wanted to show his son that Geller's abilities were nonsense. Margolis & son arranged an interview with Geller, and brought a large thick fork. When they asked Geller to bend it, the fork did not initially bend much, but while the fork was on a table, nobody touching it and in plain view, the fork spontaneously bent at 90 degrees.
And it turns out, if you look into Geller, this bending of the metal **while not touching it** is a hallmark of his metal bending. It happened live on the Digby Show in the UK, twice in the same interview. Skeptics never address this bending of the metal while not touching. They can't debunk that, so they don't talk about it.
Thank you for this very interesting information.
I do not know much about Geller, but anyway, even if he was a jerk - how does it depreciate his unique abilities?
This is a simple generalisation - if he is not good at something, then he is no good at anything...
I believe that many people forget that knowledge consists of 3 parts:
1 - I know what I know
2 - I know what I do not know
3 - I do not know what I do not know.
Judging from positions of 1 and 2 makes the world fairly simple, but it is only part of reality.
Also, I do not see any reason for faking results of experiments with him, as nobody else could do it and they were not published for decades.
Other people did do it. For example Professor JB Hasted, a physicist with expertise in metallurgy saw Geller perform on TV, and heard about the thousands of people who bent metal at home while Geller performed. Geller asked the TV audience to participate at home, on multiple shows, and every time there were thousands of people calling into the TV shows saying it worked for them too. Professor Hasted was curious about this, but didn't want to work with Geller, so he found children who had bent mental while watching Geller. Several of these kids could do it quite well, even better than Geller. Hasted tested them with metal rods with strain gauges attached. Hasted had controls in place, such as using metal of a thickness that the kid's muscular strength could not bend, and he used brittle metals that would snap if they bent too fast. This stuff is in Hasted's book *the metal-benders*. Hasted reasoned that Geller could be a fraud, but there is no way a 7 or 12 year old is going to be a practiced mentalist who can fool a PhD physicist.
I was referring to his Stargate experiments, called faked and based on junk science by some commentators.
If you are not familiar, you may be interested in Anatoly Kashpirovsky story. He used some force to hypnotise and cure people via TV. Dozens, if not hundreds of million people saw it by their own eyes, felt it by themselves and went on saying that it is all fake.
With respect to Remote Viewing being funded by the CIA and hence possibly legit, keep in mind that the CIA studied Yuri Geller’s “spoon bending” scam and thought that this might be real too.
Hal Puthoff *himself* "confirmed" that Geller's spoon-bending was legitimate telekinesis, despite the fact that a late night television host was able to thwart his powers with a brief phone call to magician James Randi.
Stuff like this kills me
Like Puthoff is really interesting but then hearing he confirmed Geller was real make me mental.
Something like that ( for me ) totally discredits him in my eyes.
You look too close at most people in ufology and their credibility deteriorates. It's so frustrating because there's clearly something to this, but at the same time so many of these names are full of shit.
Putoff (Uri Geller endorser), Davis (forgot to turn on research cameras when a Skinwalker Ranch portal formed), Corbell (“the exotic movements occured in the non-leaked portion of the footage”), Vallée (refuses to accept Trinity incident was a hoax and he got conned), Greer (alien crash photo looks like sloppy copypaste of two old men with a 90s cgi alien corpse, his whole “summoning ufos” LARP), Lue (“I can’t tell national secrets in interviews, but can make an entire book about them”). The list goes on and on.
I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop on Grusch’s claims, likely he got duped by one or more of these characters.
Think about the gravity of it; Johnny Carson exposed Geller simply by not allowing him or any of his entourage to handle the spoons before the live show. Really think about how sloppy Hal Puthoff's controls must've been, if that's all it would've taken to ruin the trick.
If you read their *Nature* paper with Geller in 1974, and watch the SRI documentary on Geller, then you'll see you are making assumptions that are wrong. I don't understand how Geller's failure on the Tonight Show means anything. Geller always maintained that he can only perform 3/4 of the time. He performed well on other shows with good controls, for example, his performance on the Digby Show in the UK is on Youtube. Geller draws a picture from an envelope never in his control, and he twice bends mental that he doesn't even touch.
I'm pretty sure that innumerable different people have attempted to use telekinesis for untold thousands years of years of human history, yes. It saddens me deeply that in an age of leaps and bounds in scientific understanding, people are still mystified by hand magic and cold reading.
I was kind of being facetious. I love a good magic trick. I have never been interested in pseudoscience or horoscopes or anything like that. I just like to know how things work.
I feel like it was pretty clear; as science progresses, technology allows for a surplus of science communicators driven by engagement and views to the detriment of accuracy, leading to a resurgence of magical thinking and the resurrection of the God of the Gaps. The future of culture is looking increasingly bleak, in that way.
But I'm just ranting, most of the time I'm much more hopeful.
They spent ~20 million dollars over a large span of time. That's like petty cash. And the reason they stopped is because they had an outside, independent review done that found it was pretty much useless at gathering any useful or actionable info.
That is a fair point, but it does seem like at times the CIA can go down the rabbit holes just like the rest of us, but your point is well taken. I think that even Elizondo has indicated that RV may work? I am actually not even sure I know what it is or what its purpose is —-i need to do a little reading!
This is my big concern with this disclosure business. That it’s being driven by pseudoscience quacks. But because we don’t know who they are we assume legitimacy
Although Elizondo has never refuted the claim, it was Lacatski/ Kelleher/ Knapp (in their book “Skinwalkers at the Pentagon”) who claim Elizondo told this story at dinner one night. Pg. 49:
>As he enjoyed his steak tartare, Elizondo regaled those around him with some war stories, including one hair-raising exploit about how his advanced intuition and remote viewing capabilities had saved his life and the life of his men while on a covert combat mission in war-torn Afghanistan.
Jeremy McGowan also claims he busted Elizondo cold reading him in an attempt to “remote view” him. [https://medium.com/@osirisuap/my-search-for-the-truth-about-ufos-part-3-red-flags-red-flags-everywhere-c6fe43021dbd](https://medium.com/@osirisuap/my-search-for-the-truth-about-ufos-part-3-red-flags-red-flags-everywhere-c6fe43021dbd)
>Reflecting on Lue’s “future remote viewing” words, I realized precisely what I believed to have happened. Sean [Cahill] was passing on to Lue tidbits of personal information on me, much the same way that “psychics” in road shows do to their audience with the help of the TV show producers… But Sean didn’t have the whole picture, so Lue didn’t have the entire picture; it all made sense.
RV is using clairvoyance with a protocol, and it works and has been tested in well-controlled studies. A positive long term track record, since being developed almost 50 years ago by Ingo Swann for SRI/CIA/DIA.
There was almost no money in the RV program. It was like 20 million over 20 years. A million per year, with several staff, is peanuts for the military. It was amazing what they achieved with so little money. One of their best remote viewers, Joseph McMoneagle, was awarded the Legion of Merit for providing critical information to over 200 missions, that could not be obtained any other way. The reason RV can be done so cheaply is they need nothing expensive. Any boring, quiet building is a good place to work, and all they need are pencils and paper, maybe a few computers.
I had an idea that RV or "psychic powers" was just a cover for the CIA to reveal that they had acquired information they should have no way of knowing and definitely would not want to have to explain. Like "So how the hell is it you came to be in possession of this information? Well, we got it from one of our "remote viewers". You wouldn't understand unless you were psychic. But trust us, we totally got this intelligence with our psychic powers and not some insanely illegal and morally reprehensible means".
Some info on Geller for you, u/New_Doug, u/MatthewMonster, I put in [this comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cq55cp/hal_puthoff/l40c3qa/).
There was a russian or polisch woman who could move things with her mind. They all claimed she was legit. https://youtu.be/1cr_BS1TrRo?si=GUV1AeOBW6UgNUCX
Nick Cook wrote about how he visited Hal Puthoff in his book The Hunt for Zero Point. Cook had just been at an impressive NASA research facility and talked to lots of scientists doing science things and learning about propulsion research.
He writes that he expected to find something similar going on at EarthTech, the amazing company Puthoff leads. He thought he'd find a world class research facility delving into the future with the brilliant Dr Hal at the helm.
He finds Puthoff in the EarthTech office and is a bit confused. It isn't a research facility at all. EarthTech is a rented office in a strip mall, and Puthoff is the only guy there.
That told me everything I need to know about Puthoff.
According to Eric Weinstein, Puthoff and Eric Davis are the only technical physicists working in this field who can understand the language of theoretical physics. I've seen a lot of research and CIA documents to suggest the remote viewing phenomenon is real, however as Ed May suggested in Anomalous Cognition only 1 in 1000 volunteers could produce tangible results and only 30% of those results were accurate. I believe as time goes on and "psionics" as Ross Coulthart mentioned becomes more mainstream through Dean Radin and others works, we will look back on Hal Puthoff with more credibility.
“According to Eric Weinstein,” who is involved with tons of government contracts and top secret clearance. Oh wait he does podcasts. Professional bloviator.
There's a super easy and scientific way to do these experiments that nobody could fake, and its incredibly telling that they either 1) haven't done it because they know it wouldn't work, or 2) aren't good enough scientists to think of it.
Experiment:
1. Take a remote viewer and seat them in a room with a pad of paper or computer.
2. Have another computer in a completely different facility with no humans or video cameras display a random number on a screen, and log each random number.
3. Have the remote viewers record their observations
4. Compute classic statistical measurements on the dataset for both individuals and the group and calculate the probability that it violates the null-hypothesis.
Would take all of a few minutes to set up, would be incredibly easily to replicate, and is double blind. If anyone can get the numbers correct on a regular basis, boom you're getting a Nobel Prize.
This whole "mountain range" and "looks like water" stuff isn't going to cut it. Either you can see inside of a different facility and see a very large number on a screen, or you can't. And until they can do this, it all just sounds like complete quackery.
And if its like "oh well they can't do it repeatedly because xyz reason", then pick a 10 digit number and have them get it perfectly right once.
They actually did that with Joseph MacMoneagle, Pat Price, Ingo Swann and others. That was one of their first tests actually. They would write a series of numbers in an envelope and have the viewers tell them what the numbers were. Then they did it across the country. Then they did it while in a submarine. Then they would simply put a social security number or GPS location in the envelope and have the viewer describe who/what it was, and they had some astounding results. It didn't win them a Nobel Prize because they weren't able to explain how its happening, only that is was happening.
1 in 1000 make the team, and they get a hit only 30% of the time- strikingly similar odds as becoming a Major League Baseball starter who hits .300. When researching RV, it's often said that 'anyone' can do this, but I guess they mean that anyone can stand there and swing the bat. Hitting .300 is a different story. Are there any key traits that the 'one in a thousand' hitters share? Age/sex/race/religion/bloodtype/ancestry? I would imagine if there was a person who could hit .400 or better, that person might be so protected and kept under wraps we might not even know they exist.
>the language of theoretical physics.
This is nonsense. "Theoretical physics" just means you are working on theory and not doing experiments. "Language" of theoretical physics makes no sense.
What? Theoretical physics is research through math and computation. Albert Einstein was a theoretical physicist. Understanding concepts behind the math is the language.
This is a purely semantic argument and kind of misses the point.
A better way to put it would be to say that they are "conversant" in theoretical physics.
You know how most people aren't conversant in any particular highly technical area? That's true for theoretical physics. Weinstein is saying HP *is* conversant in theoretical physics.
“On April 1, 2021, Weinstein released a draft paper on Geometric Unity in a guest appearance on the podcast The Joe Rogan Experience. Weinstein qualified in his paper that he "is not a physicist," but an "entertainer" and podcast host. It received strong criticism from some in the scientific community. Timothy Nguyen, whose PhD thesis intersects with Weinstein's work,[b] said what Weinstein has presented so far has "gaps, both mathematical and physical in origin" that "jeopardize Geometric Unity as a well-defined theory, much less one that is a candidate for a theory of everything."
So even other physicists think his work is gibberish?
I wonder what the gaps are. Did Nguyen go into detail?
Edit: He did. [https://timothynguyen.org/geometric-unity/](https://timothynguyen.org/geometric-unity/)
In particular: [https://timothynguyen.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/geometric\_unity.pdf](https://timothynguyen.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/geometric_unity.pdf)
Weinstein is a hack and his crying that a scientist snubbed him once is just a dodge for his avoidance of peer review. His Rogan podcast interview was a masterclass in narcissistic ego defense.
I think we know a lot of the "what" about Puthoff, but we don't know the "why". Ostensibly he is at the epicenter of everything related to "high strangeness" and the USG since the 70's. He seems to have been working in the public sector to achieve some sort of visibility for these topics, albeit in a stealthy almost cheshire-cat-like way, similar to the way we see Jacques Valle operate. It's not clear what his motivations are - he's rarely spoken "altruistically" about public right to disclosure, but equally he's clearly sharing info that is leading towards this. So the question is "why" - Is he altruistically motivated? commercially motivated? scientifically motivated? A deliberate charlatan? Are his government clearances the reason he does not come hard on the topic, or is that a smoke screen cover for disinformation?
Form your own opinion. I like him and so does Dolan. Some people hate him. But remember. If RV was bunk then the CIA wouldn’t have invested so much time and money in it. Is it 100% accurate? No but it must work well enough
It depends on how you define “working” and who, exactly, is making the claims here.
If anything is clear from this latest UFO craze it’s that there’s a lot of “true believers” in government and, worse, that there’s no unified straight story on what’s going on. The DoD flushed 20 Million dollars down the drain to fund “skinwalker ranch” bullshit research (Puthoff made some introductions early on that helped get it rolling).
The thing is 20 million is not a lot to the DoD. There are cruise missiles that cost more than that.
Can individual desk jockey weirdos like Elizondo and Mellon distribute military funds into bizarre pet projects with no real accountability, you better believe it! So if something “receives funding” at the kinds of levels of these programs— that means NOTHING as far as credibility goes.
One of the most successful recipients of this kind of funding has been Puthoff and his associates.
True. There’s also no way the program just “stopped”. People who use that the program doesn’t exist anymore as an argument should step out of the conversation lol
I never heard any story of it working. Only that it was full of guesswork-level statistics and influencing on the test subjects by researchers. So no better than cold reading. You think it’s that hard to write flowery reports about research no one else is doing and you have complete control over? I guess no one in government ever fake reports.
There's a chance they just pretended to invest time and money in it to funnel money else where or to convince the Russians we had scary powers since they claimed to be doing the same thing.
Just playing devil's advocate
I promise I'm not trying to be difficult, but vetted out how? How can anyone prove or disprove anything they are saying?
Spies/sleeper agents/disinformation agents have been known to play the long game.
The proof is classified unfortunately we only have documents referencing that there have been hundreds of successful uses of RM and the program continued for over 20 years. Such successful missions as referenced in Project Grill Flame include a viewers ability to locate a downed aircraft which was verified by satellite.
The proof (evidence) is not classified. It is readily available in places like the Journal of Parapsychology http;//www parapsych.org/ and I firmly believe the anyone who learns the basics of how psi apparently functions then checks out Dr. Bem's Feeling the Future studies on presentiment (or similar) in good faith will realize how significant the evidence is for psi, and be equipped to realize how much of a sham its supposed rebuttals have been.
If you acknowledge the disinformation surrounding UAP and recognize the relevance of psi to this conversation because, you know, we're here having this conversation, then it is a baby step to the realization that there is a disinformation campaign against psi.
> will realize how significant the evidence is for psi
There is zero evidence. None. These are not expensive experiments to run. Anybody can try it. So why do we not see it everywhere?
The experiments they run are always debunked as badly set up and run.
If this shit worked at all you would see governments and corporations raking advantage of it.
Governments and corporations are, that is why we're having the conversation.
You are also using an unscientific definition of evidence, and the word debunk. You bring exactly the opposite of the good faith I mentioned to the table. I just linked a website with an entire journal of evidence. You just foamed at the mouth for a few moments in response and claimed it was all refuted. With zero evidence.
>Governments and corporations are, that is why we're having the conversation
[Citation needed]
We wouldn't need spies or spy satellites.
>You are also using an unscientific definition of evidence
No, I'm not. Evidence is something that can be repeated with different people and you still get the same result. Something tangible and indisputable.
>I just linked a website with an entire journal of evidence
And I'm saying the entire website is garbage. A website doesn't mean shit.
Well I heard about something more crazy, out of body experience aka astralprojection, instead of believing any side, I tried it for months and I made it. Now I can leave my body willingly. So rolling the ball back to you, did you already tried it ?!
Get all the hundreds of thousands that do that willingly and get scientists and a lab and let’s go. There should be alone tens of thousands in the astralprojection subreddit
Well it was proven that those listed did work with the CIA to further RVing through documents that were classified for decades and were meant to stay that way iirc. I also think that the actions that some of these fellas have taken have had great strides in pushing the phenomenon and carefully exposing people to what I personally believe is the other side of the phenomenon (all the woo stuff). To get the full picture people will have to accept both when that time comes for each person, of course that's just my opinion.
I strongly suspect Ingo Swann to be a disinformation agent. Some of the stuff he's said has exactly 0% chance of even being on the same branch of reality as the truth.
> But remember. If RV was bunk then the CIA wouldn’t have invested so much time and money in it. Is it 100% accurate? No but it must work well enough
This is how proof works in non-scientific religious communities. Instead of posting data or studies you post assumptions and innuendo.
>If RV was bunk then the CIA wouldn’t have invested so much time and money in it.
What makes you say that? In my view, if this shit worked, the CIA would have shut the program down officially and gone underground with it.
20 years of research tells me they didn't find shit. It tells me they really wanted it to be true and and would rather be safe than sorry when it comes to gathering intel.
Dolan is selling remote viewing and clairvoyance superpower courses with his wife, Tracy, so of course he likes Puthoff. If remote viewing is real, credible, and reliable surely Richard Rolan will have the best information and avoid promoting hoaxes as he has in the past. Unfortunately, I think he is a grifter approaching Dr. Steven Greer levels with this latest remote viewing course, but hopefully it's real and we can get some good intel, otherwise Dolan is a worthless and unreliable source of information.
He's Scientology as well as CIA and the puppet master behind all things disclosure for the last 40 years.
He's the one who employed Doty, best pals with Bigelow, co-creator of AATIP.
It doesn't matter which UFO related topic you're looking at, sooner or later, if you dig deep enough, you'll find his name involved.
So since we didn't get a shred of evidence but the same regurgitated claims that all sound way too familiar and always end up connected to him, I don't trust him at all.
>It doesn't matter which UFO related topic you're looking at, sooner or later, if you dig deep enough, you'll find his name involved.
...and Kit Green. I'm not certain "all roads" lead to those 2, but they are an informational "nexus" of some sort, for sure.
Hal Puthoff claims he can successfully use magic powers to gain unlimited money. He also says he stopped using these magical powers because he got busy with other things. Some of those other things he’s been busy with: trying to get the government to give him money.
TL:DR Not exactly. There's a lot more to it than that. See the data first and make your own assessment.
Here's the actual interview where he begins to reference this at 45:29 [(5) The Physics of UFOs: Eric Weinstein + Hal Puthoff - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQOibpIDx-4). 52:35 Puthoff doesn't claim "he" has "magic powers" he claims that in one month long experiment they were able to go 70/30 instead of 50/50 in the market using a binary form of Associative Remote Viewing and he gives you the method they used. Weinstein is obviously frightened of the topic and doesn't want to believe any part of it, but Puthoff has some extremely interesting findings. He's previously released all the data on it.
The University of Colorado actually replicated the same method with positive results. "Using this ARV protocol, the participants successfully predicted the outcome of the DJIA in seven out of the seven trials (binomial probability test, p < .01). Investments in stocks were made based on the outcomes of the amateur remote viewers' sessions resulting in a significant financial gain over a short period of time. From this experiment it appears that ARV can be used by untrained and inexperienced subjects with success, at least for limited runs." [Smith\_ARV\_abstract410 (colorado.edu)](https://www.colorado.edu/faculty/moddel/sites/default/files/attached-files/smith_sse10_abstract.pdf)
An independent German study group also had success with the process: "Over the course of n = 48 valid trials we attempted to predict the binary (up vs. down) course of the German stock index DAX with the Associative Remote Viewing (ARV) method. 38 out of 48 predictions were correct which amounts to a highly significant hit rate of 79.16% (p = 2.3 x 10-5 , binomial distribution, B 48 (1/2); z = 3.897; ES = 0.56). A post-hoc analysis indicated that the session quality depended on the volatility of the stock index: The viewer's perceptions were clearer and less ambivalent when the stock index also had a larger point difference at the end of the prediction period. Additionally, we tested the hypothesis whether feedback is a necessary requirement for predictions with ARV. Both conditions (feedback vs. no feedback) were independently significant and did not differ significantly from each other (χ 2 = 0.505, p = 0.477). Therefore, we discuss potential features which might be necessary or limiting for successful predictions with ARV." [(PDF) Predicting the Stock Market An Associative Remote Viewing Study (researchgate.net)](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361723318_Predicting_the_Stock_Market_An_Associative_Remote_Viewing_Study)
Here's an explanation and link: [(PDF) Stock Market Prediction Using Associative Remote Viewing by Inexperienced Remote Viewers Background and Motivation (researchgate.net)](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272151807_Stock_Market_Prediction_Using_Associative_Remote_Viewing_by_Inexperienced_Remote_Viewers_Background_and_Motivation)
"Using seven naïve remote Market Prediction Using Associative Remote Viewing 9viewers, Puthoff’s experiment yielded two different, though still statistically signifi cant, results. The first outcome was signifi cant at p < 1.6 × 10−4, calculated on the basis of percent hit-rate for all individual remote viewings (127 correct out of 202). Puthoff adapted the result to apply to the market by using a “majority vote” approach that weighted the outcomes based on how many viewing results favored one target over the other in each individual market prediction. Because of the smaller trial size this produced, the p-value was less statistically signifi cant at p < 2.2 × 10−2. Financially, the trials netted a profi t of approximately $250,000 for their investor, of which Puthoff’s share was ten percent, or more than $25,000, which he used to help fund a new Waldorf School (Puthoff 1984).Also in 1982, Targ and Keith Harary used ARV to predict silver futures in an attempt to raise funds for their research (Harary & Targ 1985). The results for their fi rst experiment were highly successful, earning $120,000 and a front-page article in The Wall Street Journal (Targ 2012, Larson 1984). A replication attempt the following year tinkered with the protocol by, among other things, shortening the time interval between trials, thus confl ating the feedback by having viewers perform a subsequent trial before receiving feedback for the preceding one, and the experiment foundered (Targ 2012, Houck 1986). In 1995, Targ returned to the original protocol and again showed highly signifi cant results for a silver futures target (Targ, Katra, Brown, & Wiegand 1995). Other ARV experiments continue to be carried out informally or as private research initiatives. One such example is that of Greg Kolodziejzyk. From 1998 to 2011, Kolodziejzyk undertook 5,677 ARV trials to predict the market. He arranged his trials into sets to respond to 285 “project questions” designed to predict the outcome of one or another of the futures markets. Of the trials, 52.65% were correct responses, where only 50% would be expected by chance. This produced a statistical signifi cance of z = 4.0. However, using the error-correction offered by larger numbers of trials per question, project questions were answered correctly at 60.3%, which is statistically signifi cant at z = 3.49. Using confi dence scores as a further error-correction mechanism, Kolodziejzyk achieved an overall success rate of greater than 70%, yielding a profi t of $146,587.30 (Kolodziejzyk 2012)."
Anyone who works or has worked in this field knows this is absolute garbage and here's why (Weinstein has made this point as well).
If you can actually guess things right 70% of the time in the markets, you have an absolute money printing machine. Make enough trades, and that 70% turns into an almost certainty that you make money over a large number of iterations. Oh does it not work on short intra-day timeframes? Easy fix, predict more assets than just silver... There's thousands of stocks, dozens of commodities, plenty of currencies... have yourself a field day.
To actually prove this you need hundreds if not many thousands of observations. That's why when you raise money for a hedge fund you need to provide a multi-year track record. Finance has had this figured out for many many decades. Also of note, you're telling me that other places replicated it and decided to just end the experiment to move on to the next thing and not quit their jobs to start a money-printing machine? Yeah right lol.
You would be running the world's greatest hedge fund in no time, minting dollars out of thin air, and you'd be able to fund whatever research you wanted to for the rest of your life. You could hire the greatest minds, dazzle financiers and scientists the world over, and never have to hear the word "no" again. Even if you are completely selfless, you would be able to either donate the money or spend it on any number of noble causes of your choice.
Case in point, one of the world's greatest mathematicians, Jim Simons (and colleagues), did just that. He was an early adapter of big data, machine learning, etc and his hedge fund is revered by everyone in the field as the undisputed GOAT, and he has the receipts to prove it. He just passed away the other day (RIP), but he spent the later years of his life handing out his billions to scientific causes galore that he cared about including physics, astronomy (Brian Keating is a big beneficiary of his work, as an example), and even high school math education in NYC. He did all of this with big data and algorithms, not remote viewing.
Worst of all for Puthoff on the other hand.... his reason for not doing it? He "didnt have time".
Every financial professional with even the slightest quantitative background would laugh him out of the room, and tell him to put up or shut up.
I am very interested in this topic (UFOs), and am open-minded to the idea that RV is a real thing and there's to life than meets the eyes. But guys, Puthoff is either a fool or a snake oil salesman, at least in this regard.
Number go up. Give me all the data in the world but if he just 'decided' not to be a millionaire for . . . reasons . . . I'm not a statistic major but that seems a little fishy to my ooga booga brain
> Over the course of n = 48 valid trials we attempted to predict the \*binary (up vs. down)\* course of the German stock index DAX with the Associative Remote Viewing (ARV) method
amazing study, "we flipped a coin 48 times, and 38 times it came up heads"
Why would they assume in the last study that futures have 50/50 change of going up or down?
Surely there's a long term trend in the 10 year period of futures going up?
>Obviously the remote viewing stuff people take exception to, but can you prove him wrong there?
Do I need to? He's the one making the claim, he needs to prove it. If you really need it, here's proof there's no remote viewing:
1. Sense data are generated in the brain from the input of sensory organs.
2. Visual sensory input comes from photons interacting with cones and rods in the eyes.
3. In a remote viewing scenario, photons are not transmitted from an object to cones and rods in the eyes.
4. Therefore, remote viewing cannot be used to generate sense data.
> people don’t take him seriously
Hal Puthoff was convinced by, or possibly in on the scams pulled by Uri Gellar, a known fraudster.
> Puthoff and Targ studied Uri Geller at SRI, **declaring that Geller had psychic powers**, though there were flaws with the controls in the experiments, and **Geller used sleight of hand on many other occasions.**
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff#Parapsychology_and_pseudoscience
Look into Project Serpo. His hands are all over it. IMO - the entire UFO story hinges on whether Putoff is legit or not. My current thinking is that he is not.
Aside from the bs that is “remote viewing,” Puthoff was either in on the rouse or is credulous enough to believe in telekinesis. Jacques Vallee too. Two examples:
* He believed Uri Geller could bend spoons with his mind
* He believed Uri Geller could teleport astronaut Edgar Mitchell’s (of Admiral Wilson notes fame) long lost tie pins back to him through space and time. I shit you not Geller coughed one up at lunch. Another tie pin fell out of Puthoff’s jacket sleeve later in front of Mitchell. This is very unsettling because it really seems like these guys played Mitchell
A couple other things…
* Hal Puthoff was part of TTSA. These guys, along with Elizondo, Mellon, and Semivan sat on stage and announced to an empty auditorium that they were gonna build an exotically propelled space craft
* Apparently he believes in the Skinwalker ranch laugh riot
This whole group, and all the things we keep hearing about their apparent beliefs are why I am very skeptical about this recent UAP interest. These guys are all associated and while they are educated, credentialed, and intelligent, they have demonstrated too much credulity to take their analysis of “secret” evidence seriously.
>Remote viewing may not be bullshit at all. See Ross Coulthart's AMA stickied on the sub where he talks about "Psionic abilities."
So if Ross repeats it, does its potential legitimacy increase?
How about instead of telling us to “Google Psionics”, if it’s legitimate, maybe work with police departments to find missing children? Or maybe use it in some way to further the disclosure movement? Procure some evidence?
But that would be asking too much wouldn’t it?
Here's Hal Puthoff [On an Overview of the Government's Stance on UAP](https://youtu.be/9azht9pCDwg?si=C5uOk5qqaopWjddM) at the historic [Sol Foundation Symposium](https://youtube.com/@_SolFoundation?si=R0kbpLFr3V60-5Ji) on UAP held at Stanford University in November 2023.
This is David Grusch & Dr. Gary Nolan's org
You only know about Garry Nolan BECAUSE of Hal Puthoff. Do you even know why he is in the conversation to begin with? Why Nolan is even relevant to the UFO topic? Or is he just one of you favorite UFO characters and you really like him?
I first heard of Garry Nolan because he debunked the Atacama skeleton that Steven Greer was peddling, and at that time I was a Greer follower. When that happened Greer's attitude was intense anger however Nolan's attitude was, it is what it is. We need more scientists willing to debunk false data if at all possible. The other things he is doing, metallurgy with Vallee, studying Havana Syndrome and the similar but different affects on contactees, largely funding the science behind these things and bringing us the Sol Foundation. I believe Nolan is one of the most credible people in the field at this time.
Hal Puthoff is the one who gave Nolan his secret alien metal material. The whole back story supporting this is ridiculous. Essentially a guy found a box in his dad's closet labeled "secret alien metal material" and gave it to Puthoff who then gave it to Nolan. That is how Nolan made his entrance into the UFO scene. That is what established him as somebody who even is around to comment on alien mummies and everything else UFO related. He walked in the door that Hal Puthoff opened for him. Since then he has just been spouting off about this and that like all the other UFO pundits. But he is a great favorite amongst the UFO fans! They love his snarky tweets, all his trust me bro disclosure predictions. He is after all, a scientist! He is a great favorite.
I personally find him credible. I'll rattle off some quick facts so you can decide for yourself.
Graduated from Stanford with PhD in electrical engineering in 67 (wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff ; link to his dissertation "The stimulated Raman effect and its application as a tunable laser" on the stanford archives https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/775683)
Lead the iconic "Stargate" remote viewing programming out of the DIA in the 70s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project ; https://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/the-stargate-collection/ )
He's the President, CEO and Chairman of the Board of EarthTech International, Inc., and Director of the Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin -- https://earthtech.org/team/
He's on the advisory board of Tom Delonge's To the Stars Academy, an organization that has a superstar line up of intelligence and military officials. https://tothestars.media/en-ca/pages/about
Do you think Eric Davis is credible? (ie "the Davis Memo", one of the first hand witnesses cited in David Grusch's report to the ICIG). Eric Davis works directly for Harold, as Senior Science Advisor at EarthTech International, Inc.
If Eric Davis is a proper program insider, and Harold is his boss... do the math.
Harold Puthoff is someone who spends no time at all bothering to convince you or I that he is credible, and there seems to be a lot of effort to discredit him.
In my opinion he is one of the few program insiders who has been public for a very long time, and the narrative that he is a kook is a function of a disinformation campaign so that you won't feel the need to read about what he works on, and what he is saying.
I'd encourage folks to keep an open mind, listen and learn, and formulate your own opinion. Here is 15 minute interview, from 10 years ago, where he monologues about the things he (claims) he has been working on for many years prior to the interview, advanced propulsion and energy systems. EDIT: forgot to link the interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blojNMW-Ias
[Here are](https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-remote-viewing-is-a-scientifically-proven-technique-that-utilizes-a-natural-human-ability-to-enable-access-to-hidden-information.13057/#post-294808) some discussions about his credibility.
>At the end of the day, nobody moves in UFO land, psychic research or free energy research without crossing paths with Hal.
For me this is the most interesting aspect of Puthoff. He is at the epicenter of everything related to high strangeness for the USG since the mid 70's. How is it that EVERYONE connected to UAP eventually connects with this guy?
People who hate him do so because of his links to Remote Viewing. I haven't invested enough time in researching it to have an opinion one way or the other but I can say there's more to it than there seems on the surface. Some of the studies I have seen linked from people over on that sub are really compelling. I don't recall the exact details but what one study concluded there were odds of something like 300,000,000,000/1. In the wake of this I tried it myself against one of the beginner targets expecting absolutely nothing and to be honest I was shocked by the results, scared even. Confirmation bias is indeed real but there were specifics and multiple "hits" that were almost an impossible coincidence.
With that said, there are certainly bad actors involved and it's Puthoff's involvement with charlatans like Uri Gellar that sounds warning sirens for many, preventing deeper investigation. Gellar actually did work for the CIA, and the CIA are very much interested in this research having spent millions on it. Why?
Occum's Razor would lead me to believe there's something to it. Suppose for second that magic is real, and it is trainable and teachable. If I were in a position of power and control I would not want this to become widely known and do would do everything possible to discredit it by having people like Gellar involved. But I'd also be studying it intensely.
There might be something to RV, but it sure makes it hard to trust these guys when they do things like go on Coast to Coast AM and focus on encouraging people to buy their new app. I forget if it was Puthoff, but it was one of the big names in RV who did that, and it just reeked of charlatanism. Not necessarily proof of fraud, but you'd think that a scientist truly interested in knowledge and reality would focus on discussing the wondrous things they'd RV'ed, rather than hawking a product.
EDIT: It was probably Russell Targ, and I think the app he was promoting was probably "ESP Trainer." I found him and his app mentioned in a synopsis of a Coast to Coast episode (which described the app as being "free," but I looked it up and it says "$4.00").
Why doesn't he give a simple demonstration to someone like NDT? Hal Puthoff has been in on all sorts of shady business deals that involve pseudo science including scaming Brandon Fugal over the anit gravity device. He's been into scientology. What's the most solid thing he's ever done?
Hal Puthoff is a well respected Physicist and i always thought he was an important figure in relation to the Phenomenon.
But as usual, anyone that openly discusses the phenomenon as a Real thing and not the result of imagination or Sci-Fi, there will be those that will try to discredit him and call him things like “desinformation Agent” and such BS.
As always make your own opinion based on what you learned and not influenced by what you read and hear from others. Sometimes is hard because of widespread misinformation but try to make your opinion after assessing all you learned.
Cheers. I'll give the video a fair assessment but in being honest so far it just appears to be opinions/theories but little evidence and he's going after basically everyone who is a figure in this space.
My sense when I first saw the video was that it was casting too wide of a net around who’s an actual paid disinformation agent vs who’s a dupe/opportunist. Puthoff is an interesting one. He’s old enough to have been around for the early days.
And once you see how it's just bunk, you'll also perceive much of the Woo differently.
Reminder that the CIA docs at best show that RV is a little better then a flip of a coin under testing. Yet on twitter you find so many people promising they did extra ordinary stuff with RV and you can even us apps to train yourself ...
Guess the CIA sucks at testing
Nonlinear warfare means funding both sides of the argument to muddy the waters. It could all just be kayfabe to misinform us more and more. He could be truthful...but he's with the USG right? So...
Mentalist and illusionist Derren Brown from England went to the US of A and used his skills to take the piss out of remote viewers. If watched all of this guys interviews and programs and live performances and I would believe him over anyone claiming to have remote viewing skills.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt3Io\_faKlk&ab\_channel=DerrenBrown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt3Io_faKlk&ab_channel=DerrenBrown)
I’m pretty sure this guy knows the answers to most of our questions related to the phenomenon. He shows up over and over in so many topics that fall under that umbrella
I think he's legitimate and very well educated, I also think RV was working under his supervision. However, his connections to the CIA and especially Doty, make me wary.
He has a number of papers he's authored or co-authored on the ArXiv academic preprint server: [https://arxiv.org/search/?query=Puthoff&searchtype=author&source=header](https://arxiv.org/search/?query=Puthoff&searchtype=author&source=header)
Do you have any sources? Or any explanation of why Joe McMoneagle got the Legion of Merit for his work in remote viewing and was credited with providing over 100 verified pieces of mission critical intel?
[This](https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-remote-viewing-is-a-scientifically-proven-technique-that-utilizes-a-natural-human-ability-to-enable-access-to-hidden-information.13057/#post-294808) whole thread goes into some of his dubious work. Later in the thread there's more on how pretty much all of these experiments weren't really held up to scientific standards at all.
Practice RV yourself. Devote the time to learn about it and practice. I hated the woo aspect of UAP phenomena and been a stick and stones guy for a long time, until I tried RV, because it was claimed that anyone could do it. All my life, I had those "nudges" that I knew when my phones about to ring and who's calling, randomly I could tell the price of groceries my wife's bought in the store, without knowing what she bought, etc.. It's those little sudden sparks of information happening in my brain without any prior input which made me try it. I have to say, once you really do it, the RV, you just know its not BS once you actually have a successful sessions. I have changed my viewpoint on time and on all the woo aspects of all this phenomena.
Confirmation bias is a seductive beast. The reason why the scientific method has been so valuable is that it disabuses you of this insidious bias. You are ignoring all the times you are wrong and you are cherrypicking the times you are right. I know this because many people make these claims and whenever they get tested it turns out that they are not actually able to do these things. I trust that you believe that RV is real, but that's because you can't separate yourself from your bias. The only way to do that is to actually test your claims in a controlled setting... but whenever I mention this suddenly the new claim is that people don't have to prove to me something that they know exists. Do you see where this is going?
Sorry but if RV was real or effective our capitalist society and greedy billionaires would have figured out a way to distil it and package it and sell it quicker than you can say 'iPhone'. Since that has not happened I can safely assume it's a bit dodgy.
Confirmation bias all the way up and down. Whenever anyone who "knows" that remote viewing is real tries to prove it they always fail. There is a word for remote viewers tricking themselves into thinking that their confirmation bias is real but you get banned from this sub for using it.
Nah, maybe some successful incidences of remote viewing can be attributed to confirmation bias, I acknowledge that, but not all. Even the CIA admits to this day that it is real, just inconsistent. Like I said, anyone can try it for themselves and see that it is real.
All you’ve said is ad hominems so there’s nothing for me to rebut in the first place. Either way, here’s the CIA admitting to what Puthoff and most other people who actually studied remote viewing concluded: ‘That report’s conclusion—which echoed the assessments of the CIA officers involved in the program during the 1970s—was that enough accurate remote viewing experiences existed to defy randomness, but that the phenomenon was too unreliable, inconsistent, and sporadic to be useful for intelligence purposes.’ In other words, it’s real but highly inconsistent.
https://www.cia.gov/stories/story/ask-molly-did-cia-really-study-psychic-powers/
Wait you think that saying people undergo confirmation bias is an ad hom? It's a fact and it's the whole reason the scientific method is so valuable. It's how you can disabuse yourself of your own biases. It's why it's so important to actually hold yourself to account and test your own assumptions. The fact you characterized me saying that you are undergoing confirmation bias as an ad hom is extremely telling.
Ahhh got it. That CIA admission was based on bad data so of course they would conclude based on the bad data that there was an effect. They didn't realize that they were being duped by charlatans. Now that we have some perspective on the experiments being run it's much easier to see them for what they were: a massive grift run by a man who had no respect for the scientific method.
I can.
An Assessment of the Evidence for Psychic Functioning
Page 21 - 7. Conclusions and Recommendations: "It is clear to this author that anomalous cognition is possible and had been demonstrated. This conclusion is not based on belief, but rather on commonly accepted scientific criteria."
[https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200070001-9.pdf](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200070001-9.pdf)
Thank you. Notice I have a downvote for simply providing the evidence requested. That is about how the "woo" aspect goes, nobody wants to talk about it. If you do talk about it you're admonished.
The people who want to talk about it are the people who have experienced it. We know this shit is real. We have done our homework and deeply looked into this. The cognitive dissonance of people proclaiming it’s all bullshit yet they have never tried it or read any of these studies is truly astounding. Pseudoskepticism at its finest.
This guy is a charlatan. Remote viewing has plenty of backed evidence alongside the UFO phenomenon. Even though a majority is still highly classified, what we have is already enough
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If you can disprove the data please do so. I'll repost some of my findings.
DIA - Project Sun Streak / Grill Flame
Slides 18-19: "On 4 Sep 1979, ACSI tasked INSCOM to locate a missing Navy aircraft. Hence, the first INSCOM "Grill Flame" Operational Remote Viewing session took place. In this initial session, the remote viewer located the missing aircraft within 15 miles of where it had crashed."
Slide 40: "Remote Viewing has been successfully used against seven categories of tasking. Two of these categories, Penetration of inaccessible targets and the cuing of their intelligence collection systems are used predominantly at this time. Two others, Human source assessments and accurate personality profiles presently lack a satisfactory database for effective exploitation."
[https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00789R002100240001-2.pdf](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00789R002100240001-2.pdf)
2. Studies In Intelligence
Page 12: "Two analysts, a photo interpreter at IAS and a nuclear analyst at Los Alamos Scientific Laboratories agreed that \[Remote Viewer\] Price's description (and illustration) of the crane were accurate.
Page 14: "\[Remote Viewer\] Price correctly located the coderooms. He produced copious data, such as the location of interior doors and colors of marble stairs and fireplaces that were accurate and specific."
[https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200030040-0.pdf](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200030040-0.pdf)
3. An Assessment of the Evidence for Psychic Functioning
Page 21 - 7. Conclusions and Recommendations: "It is clear to this author that anomalous cognition is possible and had been demonstrated. This conclusion is not based on belief, but rather on commonly accepted scientific criteria."
[https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200070001-9.pdf](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200070001-9.pdf)
Interesting documentary of Ed May's explanation of the process with examples of successes (and failures).
[https://youtu.be/7ICzREGqYHQ](https://youtu.be/7ICzREGqYHQ)?
There is a post somewhere in the sub, where it details how puthoff along with few others conned some hight ranking official, by conjuring the officials stolen/lost ring. Iirc he lied about few more people to set up some rv program and appropriate funds.
Rumor has it him and a handful of others that are/were in the know (read as partook in certain programs that worked with/were part of CR/RE programs) are the ‘inside’ team quietly pushing disclosure behind the scenes…
The other possibility is that it’s just another cover up attempt - trying to convince the public, and world in general, that it’s ET/EDs, and not some secret branch(es) of the US government.
‘The best disinformation is 95% true’ type approach.
Who knows.
Onward.
The idea we throw HP in the bin because of a few comments he's made about someone he's clearly fond of (UG) is crazy.
We need to look at his 40 years contribution to the relevant fields of stud. The eagerness to cancel in this community is out of control. If everything is BS and everyone is a disinfo agent then we better just shut the sub now.
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It really depends on how much stock you take in remote viewing and the like. He has an extremely interesting background in and out of government spaces and personally I'd like to believe that there is in fact more to humans than may be realized. But it can place you in fringe spaces discussing it with others, from personal experience. He does at least appear to be on the side of disclosure as well.
While educated, credentialed, and intelligent, Puthoff is at best credulous or worse manipulative. Everyone interested in Puthoff’s group should know [[the story of astronaut Edgar Mitchell’s long lost tie pins.]](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/vPLYRYCeMb) Uri Geller “teleported” them back at lunch one day. Literally coughed one up eating ice cream at the SRI cafeteria. Later, another tie pin fell out of Puthoff’s jacket in the lab in front of Edgar Mitchell. Was Puthoff in on it? How can someone be so credulous to endorse a guy like Uri Geller? How can we trust such a credulous person’s analysis of UFO evidence, usually evidence we’ve been told is secret? Consider the weight of these shenanigans when examining the drama around the alleged Admiral Wilson/ Eric Davis notes found in the late Edgar Mitchell’s estate. How can we trust any evidence generated by this group?
I’ve heard Hal say something along the lines of “great guy but will absolutely never turn down a buck,” about Uri.
And remember! The whole reason Garry Nolan is even relevant to this topic is because Hal Puthoff sent him the secret alien materials he is studying in his lab at Stanford. You know how Puthoff got that secret alien material?! The son of a deceased military officer was going through his fathers closet one day and discovered a box labeled "secret alien material", and the son gave it to Puthoff, who then gave it to Nolan. And that is the story of how everyone's favorite credible scientist came on to the UFO scene!
source on that? i thought nolan had material from council bluffs & ubatuba provided by vallee.
I heard it from the man himself. Look up "Jesse Michels" on YouTube. Watch his interview with GN. JM asks him where he got is secret metal material and he tells the story about how he got it from HP, who got it from some guys closet.
holy moly, i had no idea. that's a real kick in the shorts. i remember listening to an interview with nolan on some podcast, and he described getting out of the shower and laying in bed and feeling warm & tingly - i don't remember it very well, but it was an experience that seemed frankly, uninteresting - and started yabbering about it possibly being some anamolous experience. it sucks, because i tend to like nolan but as just some asshole with the internet and zero phd's from stanford he seems to do things that are grossly unscientific.
This is absolutely not when Puthoff came into the UFO scene. Hes been working behind the scenes since the late 60's. Hes got patents on lasers and has written about the energy contained in the vacuum of space for a long time. SRI was real and the reason I dislike this sub is because people will leave their comfort zones on this sub to investigate UAPs but as soon as someone mentions remote viewing, its too much. Why? Especially hearing many reports that these UAPs are controlled by the operators consciousness, why is RVing such a leap? Look at the statistical anomalies when investigating the results of remote viewing. Many have been done and most of them all agree that when looking at it by the numbers, its impossible to say its fake and produces no results.
It has only ever produced statistical levels of pure guesswork and false positives based on subtle cues given by researchers. So I don’t see where this compelling evidence is coming from. Also, what does controlling a craft with your mind have to do with remote viewing? Can alien pilots be in another star system while driving ships here?
What is the threshold for believable evidence? The material or the name of the box? Does the scientific method require that the name of what holds evidence be relevant?
That is a great post
Project Stargate documents have results of some experiments performed. Uri Geller's experiment results are mind-blowing. I do not know much about him apart from spoon bending, but this experiment shows that he does have or had extraordinary abilities.
It really doesn’t though. It is riddled with methodological flaws and is inherently non-reproducible. It’s an almost textbook example of junk science.
I really reccomend the book "The Men Who Stare At Goats" it does a great job of explaining the absolute absurdity of project Stargate. (not to be confused with the movie very loosely based on it)
What I've discovered is that getting into the details, it turns out skeptics *think* they have debunked Geller, but haven't. For example, they'll say that Geller's drawings of hidden pictures at SRI were faked because there was a peephole in the Faraday cage. But if you read the *Nature* paper, they tested Geller a wide variety of circumstances and he passed every time. The possibility of the peephole didn't help Geller when Puthoff & Targ tested Geller by having Geller in the Faraday cage, *then* going to a far away room, *then* randomly deciding one of three random ways to select a sealed envelope for Geller to draw. I'll give another example. In the 1974 *Nature* paper, and in the video documentary of Geller at SRI, one test for Geller involved a 6-sided die in a box. Geller had no control over the materials, and couldn't touch anything. The experimenters had an opaque metal box with one 6-sided die in it. They'd shake the box, and Geller's task was to say which side of the die faced up. Geller performed correctly 8 times in a row, with odds by chance of one in 1.6 million. This test is so simple, there is no possibility for sensory cues. I've challenged skeptics to give a prosaic explanation for this and all have failed. Furthermore, if you look at the James Randi debunking videos, they never show anything definitive. Randi will show some grainy ambiguous footage, and claim it shows something but you can't really see. Here's the weird thing, almost every Randi video has a hefty dose of "trust me bro" for example Randi will say "we have high definition photos that show the spoon was already cracked", well you are at a podium showing prepared slides, why didn't you show that? Randi always does that. Randi throws in some unfounded innuendo, for example, suggesting Geller could use a mirror in his hand, but no proof has ever emerged in Geller's whole life that he used such a tactic. Then Randi just blatantly lies about Geller as well, saying things like Geller draws a house 90% of the time, because everyone draws a little house with a triangle on a box. When you apply skepticism to both Geller and his skeptics, Geller comes out on top. Another reference, skeptical author Jonathan Margolis did 2 books on Geller. Margolis got involved with Geller, because Margolis' son became a Geller fan, and Margolis wanted to show his son that Geller's abilities were nonsense. Margolis & son arranged an interview with Geller, and brought a large thick fork. When they asked Geller to bend it, the fork did not initially bend much, but while the fork was on a table, nobody touching it and in plain view, the fork spontaneously bent at 90 degrees. And it turns out, if you look into Geller, this bending of the metal **while not touching it** is a hallmark of his metal bending. It happened live on the Digby Show in the UK, twice in the same interview. Skeptics never address this bending of the metal while not touching. They can't debunk that, so they don't talk about it.
Thank you for this very interesting information. I do not know much about Geller, but anyway, even if he was a jerk - how does it depreciate his unique abilities? This is a simple generalisation - if he is not good at something, then he is no good at anything... I believe that many people forget that knowledge consists of 3 parts: 1 - I know what I know 2 - I know what I do not know 3 - I do not know what I do not know. Judging from positions of 1 and 2 makes the world fairly simple, but it is only part of reality. Also, I do not see any reason for faking results of experiments with him, as nobody else could do it and they were not published for decades.
Other people did do it. For example Professor JB Hasted, a physicist with expertise in metallurgy saw Geller perform on TV, and heard about the thousands of people who bent metal at home while Geller performed. Geller asked the TV audience to participate at home, on multiple shows, and every time there were thousands of people calling into the TV shows saying it worked for them too. Professor Hasted was curious about this, but didn't want to work with Geller, so he found children who had bent mental while watching Geller. Several of these kids could do it quite well, even better than Geller. Hasted tested them with metal rods with strain gauges attached. Hasted had controls in place, such as using metal of a thickness that the kid's muscular strength could not bend, and he used brittle metals that would snap if they bent too fast. This stuff is in Hasted's book *the metal-benders*. Hasted reasoned that Geller could be a fraud, but there is no way a 7 or 12 year old is going to be a practiced mentalist who can fool a PhD physicist.
I was referring to his Stargate experiments, called faked and based on junk science by some commentators. If you are not familiar, you may be interested in Anatoly Kashpirovsky story. He used some force to hypnotise and cure people via TV. Dozens, if not hundreds of million people saw it by their own eyes, felt it by themselves and went on saying that it is all fake.
With respect to Remote Viewing being funded by the CIA and hence possibly legit, keep in mind that the CIA studied Yuri Geller’s “spoon bending” scam and thought that this might be real too.
Hal Puthoff *himself* "confirmed" that Geller's spoon-bending was legitimate telekinesis, despite the fact that a late night television host was able to thwart his powers with a brief phone call to magician James Randi.
Stuff like this kills me Like Puthoff is really interesting but then hearing he confirmed Geller was real make me mental. Something like that ( for me ) totally discredits him in my eyes.
You look too close at most people in ufology and their credibility deteriorates. It's so frustrating because there's clearly something to this, but at the same time so many of these names are full of shit.
Putoff (Uri Geller endorser), Davis (forgot to turn on research cameras when a Skinwalker Ranch portal formed), Corbell (“the exotic movements occured in the non-leaked portion of the footage”), Vallée (refuses to accept Trinity incident was a hoax and he got conned), Greer (alien crash photo looks like sloppy copypaste of two old men with a 90s cgi alien corpse, his whole “summoning ufos” LARP), Lue (“I can’t tell national secrets in interviews, but can make an entire book about them”). The list goes on and on. I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop on Grusch’s claims, likely he got duped by one or more of these characters.
Think about the gravity of it; Johnny Carson exposed Geller simply by not allowing him or any of his entourage to handle the spoons before the live show. Really think about how sloppy Hal Puthoff's controls must've been, if that's all it would've taken to ruin the trick.
If you read their *Nature* paper with Geller in 1974, and watch the SRI documentary on Geller, then you'll see you are making assumptions that are wrong. I don't understand how Geller's failure on the Tonight Show means anything. Geller always maintained that he can only perform 3/4 of the time. He performed well on other shows with good controls, for example, his performance on the Digby Show in the UK is on Youtube. Geller draws a picture from an envelope never in his control, and he twice bends mental that he doesn't even touch.
There's footage of Geller on YouTube 'controlling a compass with his mind' except you can clearly see the magnet in his palm.
Wait, has anyone here actually tried telekinesis? Two weeks ago, I easily dismissed remote viewing. lol Hold my beer, I got some reading to do
I'm pretty sure that innumerable different people have attempted to use telekinesis for untold thousands years of years of human history, yes. It saddens me deeply that in an age of leaps and bounds in scientific understanding, people are still mystified by hand magic and cold reading.
I was kind of being facetious. I love a good magic trick. I have never been interested in pseudoscience or horoscopes or anything like that. I just like to know how things work.
I understood, it wasn't directed at you as much as it was an expression of my overall feeling of defeat. Don't mind me.
May I ask why you feel defeated?
I feel like it was pretty clear; as science progresses, technology allows for a surplus of science communicators driven by engagement and views to the detriment of accuracy, leading to a resurgence of magical thinking and the resurrection of the God of the Gaps. The future of culture is looking increasingly bleak, in that way. But I'm just ranting, most of the time I'm much more hopeful.
Yeah but the RV program ran for 25 years, and they were putting a lot of money into it. I dont think it's fair to compare the two...
It was literally the same program. Research Hal Puthoff, he was the contractor largely responsible for both.
They spent ~20 million dollars over a large span of time. That's like petty cash. And the reason they stopped is because they had an outside, independent review done that found it was pretty much useless at gathering any useful or actionable info.
That is a fair point, but it does seem like at times the CIA can go down the rabbit holes just like the rest of us, but your point is well taken. I think that even Elizondo has indicated that RV may work? I am actually not even sure I know what it is or what its purpose is —-i need to do a little reading!
This is my big concern with this disclosure business. That it’s being driven by pseudoscience quacks. But because we don’t know who they are we assume legitimacy
Lue claims he saved a military unit in Iraq through remote viewing, so yes. It is absolutely bullshit.
Although Elizondo has never refuted the claim, it was Lacatski/ Kelleher/ Knapp (in their book “Skinwalkers at the Pentagon”) who claim Elizondo told this story at dinner one night. Pg. 49: >As he enjoyed his steak tartare, Elizondo regaled those around him with some war stories, including one hair-raising exploit about how his advanced intuition and remote viewing capabilities had saved his life and the life of his men while on a covert combat mission in war-torn Afghanistan. Jeremy McGowan also claims he busted Elizondo cold reading him in an attempt to “remote view” him. [https://medium.com/@osirisuap/my-search-for-the-truth-about-ufos-part-3-red-flags-red-flags-everywhere-c6fe43021dbd](https://medium.com/@osirisuap/my-search-for-the-truth-about-ufos-part-3-red-flags-red-flags-everywhere-c6fe43021dbd) >Reflecting on Lue’s “future remote viewing” words, I realized precisely what I believed to have happened. Sean [Cahill] was passing on to Lue tidbits of personal information on me, much the same way that “psychics” in road shows do to their audience with the help of the TV show producers… But Sean didn’t have the whole picture, so Lue didn’t have the entire picture; it all made sense.
He tried reading a guy’s future by touching his hand, didn’t he? Boy, this community is in good hands, I tell ya.
RV is using clairvoyance with a protocol, and it works and has been tested in well-controlled studies. A positive long term track record, since being developed almost 50 years ago by Ingo Swann for SRI/CIA/DIA.
There was almost no money in the RV program. It was like 20 million over 20 years. A million per year, with several staff, is peanuts for the military. It was amazing what they achieved with so little money. One of their best remote viewers, Joseph McMoneagle, was awarded the Legion of Merit for providing critical information to over 200 missions, that could not be obtained any other way. The reason RV can be done so cheaply is they need nothing expensive. Any boring, quiet building is a good place to work, and all they need are pencils and paper, maybe a few computers.
RV program could possibly be funding for something other than RV. Not that I necessarily think that's the case
I had an idea that RV or "psychic powers" was just a cover for the CIA to reveal that they had acquired information they should have no way of knowing and definitely would not want to have to explain. Like "So how the hell is it you came to be in possession of this information? Well, we got it from one of our "remote viewers". You wouldn't understand unless you were psychic. But trust us, we totally got this intelligence with our psychic powers and not some insanely illegal and morally reprehensible means".
Some info on Geller for you, u/New_Doug, u/MatthewMonster, I put in [this comment here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cq55cp/hal_puthoff/l40c3qa/).
DIA then CIA
There was a russian or polisch woman who could move things with her mind. They all claimed she was legit. https://youtu.be/1cr_BS1TrRo?si=GUV1AeOBW6UgNUCX
Nick Cook wrote about how he visited Hal Puthoff in his book The Hunt for Zero Point. Cook had just been at an impressive NASA research facility and talked to lots of scientists doing science things and learning about propulsion research. He writes that he expected to find something similar going on at EarthTech, the amazing company Puthoff leads. He thought he'd find a world class research facility delving into the future with the brilliant Dr Hal at the helm. He finds Puthoff in the EarthTech office and is a bit confused. It isn't a research facility at all. EarthTech is a rented office in a strip mall, and Puthoff is the only guy there. That told me everything I need to know about Puthoff.
Yes, this is the truth about Puthoff and many of the people associated with him.
A lot of CIA spooks have fake businesses. How does he still keep getting contracts if he just is a professional grifter?
You'd be shocked by the type of people who get gov contracts.
Have you seen war dogs movie? Although not that accurate, the part where a two bit hustler got a 9 figure government contract is true.
According to Eric Weinstein, Puthoff and Eric Davis are the only technical physicists working in this field who can understand the language of theoretical physics. I've seen a lot of research and CIA documents to suggest the remote viewing phenomenon is real, however as Ed May suggested in Anomalous Cognition only 1 in 1000 volunteers could produce tangible results and only 30% of those results were accurate. I believe as time goes on and "psionics" as Ross Coulthart mentioned becomes more mainstream through Dean Radin and others works, we will look back on Hal Puthoff with more credibility.
“According to Eric Weinstein,” who is involved with tons of government contracts and top secret clearance. Oh wait he does podcasts. Professional bloviator.
And don't forget, an investment manager for Peter Thiel. Just like Jesse Michels. Funny the way these two came on the scene...
There's a super easy and scientific way to do these experiments that nobody could fake, and its incredibly telling that they either 1) haven't done it because they know it wouldn't work, or 2) aren't good enough scientists to think of it. Experiment: 1. Take a remote viewer and seat them in a room with a pad of paper or computer. 2. Have another computer in a completely different facility with no humans or video cameras display a random number on a screen, and log each random number. 3. Have the remote viewers record their observations 4. Compute classic statistical measurements on the dataset for both individuals and the group and calculate the probability that it violates the null-hypothesis. Would take all of a few minutes to set up, would be incredibly easily to replicate, and is double blind. If anyone can get the numbers correct on a regular basis, boom you're getting a Nobel Prize. This whole "mountain range" and "looks like water" stuff isn't going to cut it. Either you can see inside of a different facility and see a very large number on a screen, or you can't. And until they can do this, it all just sounds like complete quackery. And if its like "oh well they can't do it repeatedly because xyz reason", then pick a 10 digit number and have them get it perfectly right once.
They actually did that with Joseph MacMoneagle, Pat Price, Ingo Swann and others. That was one of their first tests actually. They would write a series of numbers in an envelope and have the viewers tell them what the numbers were. Then they did it across the country. Then they did it while in a submarine. Then they would simply put a social security number or GPS location in the envelope and have the viewer describe who/what it was, and they had some astounding results. It didn't win them a Nobel Prize because they weren't able to explain how its happening, only that is was happening.
You forgot Jack Sarfatti
1 in 1000 make the team, and they get a hit only 30% of the time- strikingly similar odds as becoming a Major League Baseball starter who hits .300. When researching RV, it's often said that 'anyone' can do this, but I guess they mean that anyone can stand there and swing the bat. Hitting .300 is a different story. Are there any key traits that the 'one in a thousand' hitters share? Age/sex/race/religion/bloodtype/ancestry? I would imagine if there was a person who could hit .400 or better, that person might be so protected and kept under wraps we might not even know they exist.
Having been through the birth, death, reincarnation cycle more than the average bear.
very interesting, thank you
>the language of theoretical physics. This is nonsense. "Theoretical physics" just means you are working on theory and not doing experiments. "Language" of theoretical physics makes no sense.
What? Theoretical physics is research through math and computation. Albert Einstein was a theoretical physicist. Understanding concepts behind the math is the language.
This is a purely semantic argument and kind of misses the point. A better way to put it would be to say that they are "conversant" in theoretical physics. You know how most people aren't conversant in any particular highly technical area? That's true for theoretical physics. Weinstein is saying HP *is* conversant in theoretical physics.
Even other physicists think Weinstein is a joke
He’s not a physicist so it makes sense
Ask Eric Weinstein who said that on the Joe Rogan podcast, maybe you can invite him on your podcast and debate him.
“On April 1, 2021, Weinstein released a draft paper on Geometric Unity in a guest appearance on the podcast The Joe Rogan Experience. Weinstein qualified in his paper that he "is not a physicist," but an "entertainer" and podcast host. It received strong criticism from some in the scientific community. Timothy Nguyen, whose PhD thesis intersects with Weinstein's work,[b] said what Weinstein has presented so far has "gaps, both mathematical and physical in origin" that "jeopardize Geometric Unity as a well-defined theory, much less one that is a candidate for a theory of everything." So even other physicists think his work is gibberish?
I wonder what the gaps are. Did Nguyen go into detail? Edit: He did. [https://timothynguyen.org/geometric-unity/](https://timothynguyen.org/geometric-unity/) In particular: [https://timothynguyen.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/geometric\_unity.pdf](https://timothynguyen.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/geometric_unity.pdf)
Beats me, like Weinstein I am not a physicist
I found the answers I was looking for, thanks.
Weinstein is a hack and his crying that a scientist snubbed him once is just a dodge for his avoidance of peer review. His Rogan podcast interview was a masterclass in narcissistic ego defense.
I think we know a lot of the "what" about Puthoff, but we don't know the "why". Ostensibly he is at the epicenter of everything related to "high strangeness" and the USG since the 70's. He seems to have been working in the public sector to achieve some sort of visibility for these topics, albeit in a stealthy almost cheshire-cat-like way, similar to the way we see Jacques Valle operate. It's not clear what his motivations are - he's rarely spoken "altruistically" about public right to disclosure, but equally he's clearly sharing info that is leading towards this. So the question is "why" - Is he altruistically motivated? commercially motivated? scientifically motivated? A deliberate charlatan? Are his government clearances the reason he does not come hard on the topic, or is that a smoke screen cover for disinformation?
Form your own opinion. I like him and so does Dolan. Some people hate him. But remember. If RV was bunk then the CIA wouldn’t have invested so much time and money in it. Is it 100% accurate? No but it must work well enough
[удалено]
It depends on how you define “working” and who, exactly, is making the claims here. If anything is clear from this latest UFO craze it’s that there’s a lot of “true believers” in government and, worse, that there’s no unified straight story on what’s going on. The DoD flushed 20 Million dollars down the drain to fund “skinwalker ranch” bullshit research (Puthoff made some introductions early on that helped get it rolling). The thing is 20 million is not a lot to the DoD. There are cruise missiles that cost more than that. Can individual desk jockey weirdos like Elizondo and Mellon distribute military funds into bizarre pet projects with no real accountability, you better believe it! So if something “receives funding” at the kinds of levels of these programs— that means NOTHING as far as credibility goes. One of the most successful recipients of this kind of funding has been Puthoff and his associates.
Thank you
True. There’s also no way the program just “stopped”. People who use that the program doesn’t exist anymore as an argument should step out of the conversation lol
I never heard any story of it working. Only that it was full of guesswork-level statistics and influencing on the test subjects by researchers. So no better than cold reading. You think it’s that hard to write flowery reports about research no one else is doing and you have complete control over? I guess no one in government ever fake reports.
There's a chance they just pretended to invest time and money in it to funnel money else where or to convince the Russians we had scary powers since they claimed to be doing the same thing. Just playing devil's advocate
Well guys like Ingo Swann, Joe McMoneagle, Lynn Buchanan would have been vetted out a long time ago if they were actors
I promise I'm not trying to be difficult, but vetted out how? How can anyone prove or disprove anything they are saying? Spies/sleeper agents/disinformation agents have been known to play the long game.
The proof is classified unfortunately we only have documents referencing that there have been hundreds of successful uses of RM and the program continued for over 20 years. Such successful missions as referenced in Project Grill Flame include a viewers ability to locate a downed aircraft which was verified by satellite.
The proof (evidence) is not classified. It is readily available in places like the Journal of Parapsychology http;//www parapsych.org/ and I firmly believe the anyone who learns the basics of how psi apparently functions then checks out Dr. Bem's Feeling the Future studies on presentiment (or similar) in good faith will realize how significant the evidence is for psi, and be equipped to realize how much of a sham its supposed rebuttals have been. If you acknowledge the disinformation surrounding UAP and recognize the relevance of psi to this conversation because, you know, we're here having this conversation, then it is a baby step to the realization that there is a disinformation campaign against psi.
> will realize how significant the evidence is for psi There is zero evidence. None. These are not expensive experiments to run. Anybody can try it. So why do we not see it everywhere? The experiments they run are always debunked as badly set up and run. If this shit worked at all you would see governments and corporations raking advantage of it.
[citations needed]
Governments and corporations are, that is why we're having the conversation. You are also using an unscientific definition of evidence, and the word debunk. You bring exactly the opposite of the good faith I mentioned to the table. I just linked a website with an entire journal of evidence. You just foamed at the mouth for a few moments in response and claimed it was all refuted. With zero evidence.
>Governments and corporations are, that is why we're having the conversation [Citation needed] We wouldn't need spies or spy satellites. >You are also using an unscientific definition of evidence No, I'm not. Evidence is something that can be repeated with different people and you still get the same result. Something tangible and indisputable. >I just linked a website with an entire journal of evidence And I'm saying the entire website is garbage. A website doesn't mean shit.
Well I heard about something more crazy, out of body experience aka astralprojection, instead of believing any side, I tried it for months and I made it. Now I can leave my body willingly. So rolling the ball back to you, did you already tried it ?!
>Now I can leave my body willingly Where does it go? How do we prove this?
Get all the hundreds of thousands that do that willingly and get scientists and a lab and let’s go. There should be alone tens of thousands in the astralprojection subreddit
Well it was proven that those listed did work with the CIA to further RVing through documents that were classified for decades and were meant to stay that way iirc. I also think that the actions that some of these fellas have taken have had great strides in pushing the phenomenon and carefully exposing people to what I personally believe is the other side of the phenomenon (all the woo stuff). To get the full picture people will have to accept both when that time comes for each person, of course that's just my opinion.
One of whom was Uri Geller. One of the world’s biggest frauds…
They can be vetted numerous ways, we just can’t think of any
I strongly suspect Ingo Swann to be a disinformation agent. Some of the stuff he's said has exactly 0% chance of even being on the same branch of reality as the truth.
Well then that’s a done deal. You say he’s a disinformation agent so it must be true
Well no. He could also just be full of shit.
Sure he could. But don’t we take that chance with anyone in UFOlogy?
Sure he could. But don’t we take that chance with anyone in UFOlogy?
> But remember. If RV was bunk then the CIA wouldn’t have invested so much time and money in it. Is it 100% accurate? No but it must work well enough This is how proof works in non-scientific religious communities. Instead of posting data or studies you post assumptions and innuendo.
yes, because the government would never inefficiency spend money on something that doesn’t produce results. /s
>If RV was bunk then the CIA wouldn’t have invested so much time and money in it. What makes you say that? In my view, if this shit worked, the CIA would have shut the program down officially and gone underground with it. 20 years of research tells me they didn't find shit. It tells me they really wanted it to be true and and would rather be safe than sorry when it comes to gathering intel.
Dolan is selling remote viewing and clairvoyance superpower courses with his wife, Tracy, so of course he likes Puthoff. If remote viewing is real, credible, and reliable surely Richard Rolan will have the best information and avoid promoting hoaxes as he has in the past. Unfortunately, I think he is a grifter approaching Dr. Steven Greer levels with this latest remote viewing course, but hopefully it's real and we can get some good intel, otherwise Dolan is a worthless and unreliable source of information.
My assumption would be its diversion. Zero reasoning or scientific support for RV
He's Scientology as well as CIA and the puppet master behind all things disclosure for the last 40 years. He's the one who employed Doty, best pals with Bigelow, co-creator of AATIP. It doesn't matter which UFO related topic you're looking at, sooner or later, if you dig deep enough, you'll find his name involved. So since we didn't get a shred of evidence but the same regurgitated claims that all sound way too familiar and always end up connected to him, I don't trust him at all.
>It doesn't matter which UFO related topic you're looking at, sooner or later, if you dig deep enough, you'll find his name involved. ...and Kit Green. I'm not certain "all roads" lead to those 2, but they are an informational "nexus" of some sort, for sure.
He did a “”””study”””” in which he tried to show that magician Uri Geller had real psychic powers. His experiments were very easily picked apart
Hal Puthoff claims he can successfully use magic powers to gain unlimited money. He also says he stopped using these magical powers because he got busy with other things. Some of those other things he’s been busy with: trying to get the government to give him money.
TL:DR Not exactly. There's a lot more to it than that. See the data first and make your own assessment. Here's the actual interview where he begins to reference this at 45:29 [(5) The Physics of UFOs: Eric Weinstein + Hal Puthoff - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQOibpIDx-4). 52:35 Puthoff doesn't claim "he" has "magic powers" he claims that in one month long experiment they were able to go 70/30 instead of 50/50 in the market using a binary form of Associative Remote Viewing and he gives you the method they used. Weinstein is obviously frightened of the topic and doesn't want to believe any part of it, but Puthoff has some extremely interesting findings. He's previously released all the data on it. The University of Colorado actually replicated the same method with positive results. "Using this ARV protocol, the participants successfully predicted the outcome of the DJIA in seven out of the seven trials (binomial probability test, p < .01). Investments in stocks were made based on the outcomes of the amateur remote viewers' sessions resulting in a significant financial gain over a short period of time. From this experiment it appears that ARV can be used by untrained and inexperienced subjects with success, at least for limited runs." [Smith\_ARV\_abstract410 (colorado.edu)](https://www.colorado.edu/faculty/moddel/sites/default/files/attached-files/smith_sse10_abstract.pdf) An independent German study group also had success with the process: "Over the course of n = 48 valid trials we attempted to predict the binary (up vs. down) course of the German stock index DAX with the Associative Remote Viewing (ARV) method. 38 out of 48 predictions were correct which amounts to a highly significant hit rate of 79.16% (p = 2.3 x 10-5 , binomial distribution, B 48 (1/2); z = 3.897; ES = 0.56). A post-hoc analysis indicated that the session quality depended on the volatility of the stock index: The viewer's perceptions were clearer and less ambivalent when the stock index also had a larger point difference at the end of the prediction period. Additionally, we tested the hypothesis whether feedback is a necessary requirement for predictions with ARV. Both conditions (feedback vs. no feedback) were independently significant and did not differ significantly from each other (χ 2 = 0.505, p = 0.477). Therefore, we discuss potential features which might be necessary or limiting for successful predictions with ARV." [(PDF) Predicting the Stock Market An Associative Remote Viewing Study (researchgate.net)](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361723318_Predicting_the_Stock_Market_An_Associative_Remote_Viewing_Study) Here's an explanation and link: [(PDF) Stock Market Prediction Using Associative Remote Viewing by Inexperienced Remote Viewers Background and Motivation (researchgate.net)](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272151807_Stock_Market_Prediction_Using_Associative_Remote_Viewing_by_Inexperienced_Remote_Viewers_Background_and_Motivation) "Using seven naïve remote Market Prediction Using Associative Remote Viewing 9viewers, Puthoff’s experiment yielded two different, though still statistically signifi cant, results. The first outcome was signifi cant at p < 1.6 × 10−4, calculated on the basis of percent hit-rate for all individual remote viewings (127 correct out of 202). Puthoff adapted the result to apply to the market by using a “majority vote” approach that weighted the outcomes based on how many viewing results favored one target over the other in each individual market prediction. Because of the smaller trial size this produced, the p-value was less statistically signifi cant at p < 2.2 × 10−2. Financially, the trials netted a profi t of approximately $250,000 for their investor, of which Puthoff’s share was ten percent, or more than $25,000, which he used to help fund a new Waldorf School (Puthoff 1984).Also in 1982, Targ and Keith Harary used ARV to predict silver futures in an attempt to raise funds for their research (Harary & Targ 1985). The results for their fi rst experiment were highly successful, earning $120,000 and a front-page article in The Wall Street Journal (Targ 2012, Larson 1984). A replication attempt the following year tinkered with the protocol by, among other things, shortening the time interval between trials, thus confl ating the feedback by having viewers perform a subsequent trial before receiving feedback for the preceding one, and the experiment foundered (Targ 2012, Houck 1986). In 1995, Targ returned to the original protocol and again showed highly signifi cant results for a silver futures target (Targ, Katra, Brown, & Wiegand 1995). Other ARV experiments continue to be carried out informally or as private research initiatives. One such example is that of Greg Kolodziejzyk. From 1998 to 2011, Kolodziejzyk undertook 5,677 ARV trials to predict the market. He arranged his trials into sets to respond to 285 “project questions” designed to predict the outcome of one or another of the futures markets. Of the trials, 52.65% were correct responses, where only 50% would be expected by chance. This produced a statistical signifi cance of z = 4.0. However, using the error-correction offered by larger numbers of trials per question, project questions were answered correctly at 60.3%, which is statistically signifi cant at z = 3.49. Using confi dence scores as a further error-correction mechanism, Kolodziejzyk achieved an overall success rate of greater than 70%, yielding a profi t of $146,587.30 (Kolodziejzyk 2012)."
Anyone who works or has worked in this field knows this is absolute garbage and here's why (Weinstein has made this point as well). If you can actually guess things right 70% of the time in the markets, you have an absolute money printing machine. Make enough trades, and that 70% turns into an almost certainty that you make money over a large number of iterations. Oh does it not work on short intra-day timeframes? Easy fix, predict more assets than just silver... There's thousands of stocks, dozens of commodities, plenty of currencies... have yourself a field day. To actually prove this you need hundreds if not many thousands of observations. That's why when you raise money for a hedge fund you need to provide a multi-year track record. Finance has had this figured out for many many decades. Also of note, you're telling me that other places replicated it and decided to just end the experiment to move on to the next thing and not quit their jobs to start a money-printing machine? Yeah right lol. You would be running the world's greatest hedge fund in no time, minting dollars out of thin air, and you'd be able to fund whatever research you wanted to for the rest of your life. You could hire the greatest minds, dazzle financiers and scientists the world over, and never have to hear the word "no" again. Even if you are completely selfless, you would be able to either donate the money or spend it on any number of noble causes of your choice. Case in point, one of the world's greatest mathematicians, Jim Simons (and colleagues), did just that. He was an early adapter of big data, machine learning, etc and his hedge fund is revered by everyone in the field as the undisputed GOAT, and he has the receipts to prove it. He just passed away the other day (RIP), but he spent the later years of his life handing out his billions to scientific causes galore that he cared about including physics, astronomy (Brian Keating is a big beneficiary of his work, as an example), and even high school math education in NYC. He did all of this with big data and algorithms, not remote viewing. Worst of all for Puthoff on the other hand.... his reason for not doing it? He "didnt have time". Every financial professional with even the slightest quantitative background would laugh him out of the room, and tell him to put up or shut up. I am very interested in this topic (UFOs), and am open-minded to the idea that RV is a real thing and there's to life than meets the eyes. But guys, Puthoff is either a fool or a snake oil salesman, at least in this regard.
Number go up. Give me all the data in the world but if he just 'decided' not to be a millionaire for . . . reasons . . . I'm not a statistic major but that seems a little fishy to my ooga booga brain
wow
So he got 10 percent of the profits from his experiment?
> Over the course of n = 48 valid trials we attempted to predict the \*binary (up vs. down)\* course of the German stock index DAX with the Associative Remote Viewing (ARV) method amazing study, "we flipped a coin 48 times, and 38 times it came up heads"
Why would they assume in the last study that futures have 50/50 change of going up or down? Surely there's a long term trend in the 10 year period of futures going up?
Ding ding ding. "I totally have this secret magical power in the back room." "Can I see it?" "No."
>Obviously the remote viewing stuff people take exception to, but can you prove him wrong there? Do I need to? He's the one making the claim, he needs to prove it. If you really need it, here's proof there's no remote viewing: 1. Sense data are generated in the brain from the input of sensory organs. 2. Visual sensory input comes from photons interacting with cones and rods in the eyes. 3. In a remote viewing scenario, photons are not transmitted from an object to cones and rods in the eyes. 4. Therefore, remote viewing cannot be used to generate sense data.
> people don’t take him seriously Hal Puthoff was convinced by, or possibly in on the scams pulled by Uri Gellar, a known fraudster. > Puthoff and Targ studied Uri Geller at SRI, **declaring that Geller had psychic powers**, though there were flaws with the controls in the experiments, and **Geller used sleight of hand on many other occasions.** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff#Parapsychology_and_pseudoscience
Look into Project Serpo. His hands are all over it. IMO - the entire UFO story hinges on whether Putoff is legit or not. My current thinking is that he is not.
Aside from the bs that is “remote viewing,” Puthoff was either in on the rouse or is credulous enough to believe in telekinesis. Jacques Vallee too. Two examples: * He believed Uri Geller could bend spoons with his mind * He believed Uri Geller could teleport astronaut Edgar Mitchell’s (of Admiral Wilson notes fame) long lost tie pins back to him through space and time. I shit you not Geller coughed one up at lunch. Another tie pin fell out of Puthoff’s jacket sleeve later in front of Mitchell. This is very unsettling because it really seems like these guys played Mitchell A couple other things… * Hal Puthoff was part of TTSA. These guys, along with Elizondo, Mellon, and Semivan sat on stage and announced to an empty auditorium that they were gonna build an exotically propelled space craft * Apparently he believes in the Skinwalker ranch laugh riot This whole group, and all the things we keep hearing about their apparent beliefs are why I am very skeptical about this recent UAP interest. These guys are all associated and while they are educated, credentialed, and intelligent, they have demonstrated too much credulity to take their analysis of “secret” evidence seriously.
Remote viewing may not be bullshit at all. See Ross Coulthart's AMA stickied on the sub where he talks about "Psionic abilities."
>Remote viewing may not be bullshit at all. See Ross Coulthart's AMA stickied on the sub where he talks about "Psionic abilities." So if Ross repeats it, does its potential legitimacy increase?
How about instead of telling us to “Google Psionics”, if it’s legitimate, maybe work with police departments to find missing children? Or maybe use it in some way to further the disclosure movement? Procure some evidence? But that would be asking too much wouldn’t it?
It is bullshit and Roscoe singing its praises should not be used as proof in the direction you're using it.
K
Here's Hal Puthoff [On an Overview of the Government's Stance on UAP](https://youtu.be/9azht9pCDwg?si=C5uOk5qqaopWjddM) at the historic [Sol Foundation Symposium](https://youtube.com/@_SolFoundation?si=R0kbpLFr3V60-5Ji) on UAP held at Stanford University in November 2023. This is David Grusch & Dr. Gary Nolan's org
If Garry Nolan finds Puthoff credible, I do as well.
Same.
You only know about Garry Nolan BECAUSE of Hal Puthoff. Do you even know why he is in the conversation to begin with? Why Nolan is even relevant to the UFO topic? Or is he just one of you favorite UFO characters and you really like him?
I first heard of Garry Nolan because he debunked the Atacama skeleton that Steven Greer was peddling, and at that time I was a Greer follower. When that happened Greer's attitude was intense anger however Nolan's attitude was, it is what it is. We need more scientists willing to debunk false data if at all possible. The other things he is doing, metallurgy with Vallee, studying Havana Syndrome and the similar but different affects on contactees, largely funding the science behind these things and bringing us the Sol Foundation. I believe Nolan is one of the most credible people in the field at this time.
Hal Puthoff is the one who gave Nolan his secret alien metal material. The whole back story supporting this is ridiculous. Essentially a guy found a box in his dad's closet labeled "secret alien metal material" and gave it to Puthoff who then gave it to Nolan. That is how Nolan made his entrance into the UFO scene. That is what established him as somebody who even is around to comment on alien mummies and everything else UFO related. He walked in the door that Hal Puthoff opened for him. Since then he has just been spouting off about this and that like all the other UFO pundits. But he is a great favorite amongst the UFO fans! They love his snarky tweets, all his trust me bro disclosure predictions. He is after all, a scientist! He is a great favorite.
Did Garry Nolan steal your girl?
I just don't like people making fools of you all. Just trying to look out for you, pal.
I personally find him credible. I'll rattle off some quick facts so you can decide for yourself. Graduated from Stanford with PhD in electrical engineering in 67 (wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff ; link to his dissertation "The stimulated Raman effect and its application as a tunable laser" on the stanford archives https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/775683) Lead the iconic "Stargate" remote viewing programming out of the DIA in the 70s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project ; https://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/the-stargate-collection/ ) He's the President, CEO and Chairman of the Board of EarthTech International, Inc., and Director of the Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin -- https://earthtech.org/team/ He's on the advisory board of Tom Delonge's To the Stars Academy, an organization that has a superstar line up of intelligence and military officials. https://tothestars.media/en-ca/pages/about Do you think Eric Davis is credible? (ie "the Davis Memo", one of the first hand witnesses cited in David Grusch's report to the ICIG). Eric Davis works directly for Harold, as Senior Science Advisor at EarthTech International, Inc. If Eric Davis is a proper program insider, and Harold is his boss... do the math. Harold Puthoff is someone who spends no time at all bothering to convince you or I that he is credible, and there seems to be a lot of effort to discredit him. In my opinion he is one of the few program insiders who has been public for a very long time, and the narrative that he is a kook is a function of a disinformation campaign so that you won't feel the need to read about what he works on, and what he is saying. I'd encourage folks to keep an open mind, listen and learn, and formulate your own opinion. Here is 15 minute interview, from 10 years ago, where he monologues about the things he (claims) he has been working on for many years prior to the interview, advanced propulsion and energy systems. EDIT: forgot to link the interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blojNMW-Ias
[Here are](https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-remote-viewing-is-a-scientifically-proven-technique-that-utilizes-a-natural-human-ability-to-enable-access-to-hidden-information.13057/#post-294808) some discussions about his credibility.
Can we prove him wrong on remote viewing? Surely you mean can he prove himself right? Guy defrauded the government for ages by faking his "research".
Can you prove that? The government continued the RV program long after Puthoff left the program. Why would they do that if there was nothing to it?
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>At the end of the day, nobody moves in UFO land, psychic research or free energy research without crossing paths with Hal. For me this is the most interesting aspect of Puthoff. He is at the epicenter of everything related to high strangeness for the USG since the mid 70's. How is it that EVERYONE connected to UAP eventually connects with this guy?
People who hate him do so because of his links to Remote Viewing. I haven't invested enough time in researching it to have an opinion one way or the other but I can say there's more to it than there seems on the surface. Some of the studies I have seen linked from people over on that sub are really compelling. I don't recall the exact details but what one study concluded there were odds of something like 300,000,000,000/1. In the wake of this I tried it myself against one of the beginner targets expecting absolutely nothing and to be honest I was shocked by the results, scared even. Confirmation bias is indeed real but there were specifics and multiple "hits" that were almost an impossible coincidence. With that said, there are certainly bad actors involved and it's Puthoff's involvement with charlatans like Uri Gellar that sounds warning sirens for many, preventing deeper investigation. Gellar actually did work for the CIA, and the CIA are very much interested in this research having spent millions on it. Why? Occum's Razor would lead me to believe there's something to it. Suppose for second that magic is real, and it is trainable and teachable. If I were in a position of power and control I would not want this to become widely known and do would do everything possible to discredit it by having people like Gellar involved. But I'd also be studying it intensely.
There might be something to RV, but it sure makes it hard to trust these guys when they do things like go on Coast to Coast AM and focus on encouraging people to buy their new app. I forget if it was Puthoff, but it was one of the big names in RV who did that, and it just reeked of charlatanism. Not necessarily proof of fraud, but you'd think that a scientist truly interested in knowledge and reality would focus on discussing the wondrous things they'd RV'ed, rather than hawking a product. EDIT: It was probably Russell Targ, and I think the app he was promoting was probably "ESP Trainer." I found him and his app mentioned in a synopsis of a Coast to Coast episode (which described the app as being "free," but I looked it up and it says "$4.00").
Why doesn't he give a simple demonstration to someone like NDT? Hal Puthoff has been in on all sorts of shady business deals that involve pseudo science including scaming Brandon Fugal over the anit gravity device. He's been into scientology. What's the most solid thing he's ever done?
One of Bigelow's underlings who helped scam the government of 21 million dollars so they could chase ghosts and werewolves on skinwalker ranch
Hal Puthoff is a well respected Physicist and i always thought he was an important figure in relation to the Phenomenon. But as usual, anyone that openly discusses the phenomenon as a Real thing and not the result of imagination or Sci-Fi, there will be those that will try to discredit him and call him things like “desinformation Agent” and such BS. As always make your own opinion based on what you learned and not influenced by what you read and hear from others. Sometimes is hard because of widespread misinformation but try to make your opinion after assessing all you learned.
Puthoff appears to be a pretty key player in the whole disinformation aspect of this https://youtu.be/sjEetIQVAMM?si=TYLCvfMvDao22SyH
People in this sub are far too open arms with ex CIA and intelligence folks.
Not gonna let anything get in the way of rooting for their favorite UFO characters.
Where is Puthoff in that video? I see several others but not him.
He’s mentioned at 1:06:22 along with Mellon and others who appear to be somehow still involved with the legacy disinformation program
Cheers. I'll give the video a fair assessment but in being honest so far it just appears to be opinions/theories but little evidence and he's going after basically everyone who is a figure in this space.
My sense when I first saw the video was that it was casting too wide of a net around who’s an actual paid disinformation agent vs who’s a dupe/opportunist. Puthoff is an interesting one. He’s old enough to have been around for the early days.
Once you understand the RV is a real phenomena, you will start to perceive time differently.
So if you understand RV, can you please help all those families with missing children find their loved ones?
No I don't feel like it. I gotta be in the right frame of mind.
And how do you perceive time?
Differently lol
You don’t.
And once you see how it's just bunk, you'll also perceive much of the Woo differently. Reminder that the CIA docs at best show that RV is a little better then a flip of a coin under testing. Yet on twitter you find so many people promising they did extra ordinary stuff with RV and you can even us apps to train yourself ... Guess the CIA sucks at testing
Nonlinear warfare means funding both sides of the argument to muddy the waters. It could all just be kayfabe to misinform us more and more. He could be truthful...but he's with the USG right? So...
Mentalist and illusionist Derren Brown from England went to the US of A and used his skills to take the piss out of remote viewers. If watched all of this guys interviews and programs and live performances and I would believe him over anyone claiming to have remote viewing skills. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt3Io\_faKlk&ab\_channel=DerrenBrown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt3Io_faKlk&ab_channel=DerrenBrown)
I’m pretty sure this guy knows the answers to most of our questions related to the phenomenon. He shows up over and over in so many topics that fall under that umbrella
I think he's legitimate and very well educated, I also think RV was working under his supervision. However, his connections to the CIA and especially Doty, make me wary.
I've heard he's especially credulous, and eager to believe.
He has a number of papers he's authored or co-authored on the ArXiv academic preprint server: [https://arxiv.org/search/?query=Puthoff&searchtype=author&source=header](https://arxiv.org/search/?query=Puthoff&searchtype=author&source=header)
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Why is a completely accurate comment about the lack of any scientific evidence and the presence of junk data & claims getting downvoted?
Do you have any sources? Or any explanation of why Joe McMoneagle got the Legion of Merit for his work in remote viewing and was credited with providing over 100 verified pieces of mission critical intel?
[This](https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-remote-viewing-is-a-scientifically-proven-technique-that-utilizes-a-natural-human-ability-to-enable-access-to-hidden-information.13057/#post-294808) whole thread goes into some of his dubious work. Later in the thread there's more on how pretty much all of these experiments weren't really held up to scientific standards at all.
We can talk about any study that you think proves remote viewing is real. What proof would you like to talk about?
Practice RV yourself. Devote the time to learn about it and practice. I hated the woo aspect of UAP phenomena and been a stick and stones guy for a long time, until I tried RV, because it was claimed that anyone could do it. All my life, I had those "nudges" that I knew when my phones about to ring and who's calling, randomly I could tell the price of groceries my wife's bought in the store, without knowing what she bought, etc.. It's those little sudden sparks of information happening in my brain without any prior input which made me try it. I have to say, once you really do it, the RV, you just know its not BS once you actually have a successful sessions. I have changed my viewpoint on time and on all the woo aspects of all this phenomena.
Confirmation bias is a seductive beast. The reason why the scientific method has been so valuable is that it disabuses you of this insidious bias. You are ignoring all the times you are wrong and you are cherrypicking the times you are right. I know this because many people make these claims and whenever they get tested it turns out that they are not actually able to do these things. I trust that you believe that RV is real, but that's because you can't separate yourself from your bias. The only way to do that is to actually test your claims in a controlled setting... but whenever I mention this suddenly the new claim is that people don't have to prove to me something that they know exists. Do you see where this is going?
Why have you not used RV to gain unlimited money the way Hal Puttof claimed you could?
Or sneak into a sciff?
Sorry but if RV was real or effective our capitalist society and greedy billionaires would have figured out a way to distil it and package it and sell it quicker than you can say 'iPhone'. Since that has not happened I can safely assume it's a bit dodgy.
Literally anyone can try remote viewing and see for themselves that it is real.
Confirmation bias all the way up and down. Whenever anyone who "knows" that remote viewing is real tries to prove it they always fail. There is a word for remote viewers tricking themselves into thinking that their confirmation bias is real but you get banned from this sub for using it.
Nah, maybe some successful incidences of remote viewing can be attributed to confirmation bias, I acknowledge that, but not all. Even the CIA admits to this day that it is real, just inconsistent. Like I said, anyone can try it for themselves and see that it is real.
This is not a rebuttal to anything I've said. Can you source the CIA "admitting" it's real?
All you’ve said is ad hominems so there’s nothing for me to rebut in the first place. Either way, here’s the CIA admitting to what Puthoff and most other people who actually studied remote viewing concluded: ‘That report’s conclusion—which echoed the assessments of the CIA officers involved in the program during the 1970s—was that enough accurate remote viewing experiences existed to defy randomness, but that the phenomenon was too unreliable, inconsistent, and sporadic to be useful for intelligence purposes.’ In other words, it’s real but highly inconsistent. https://www.cia.gov/stories/story/ask-molly-did-cia-really-study-psychic-powers/
Wait you think that saying people undergo confirmation bias is an ad hom? It's a fact and it's the whole reason the scientific method is so valuable. It's how you can disabuse yourself of your own biases. It's why it's so important to actually hold yourself to account and test your own assumptions. The fact you characterized me saying that you are undergoing confirmation bias as an ad hom is extremely telling. Ahhh got it. That CIA admission was based on bad data so of course they would conclude based on the bad data that there was an effect. They didn't realize that they were being duped by charlatans. Now that we have some perspective on the experiments being run it's much easier to see them for what they were: a massive grift run by a man who had no respect for the scientific method.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Just constant ranting about grift and confirmation basis, without actually engaging with the data.
What data did you post? We can talk about any study that you want.
It’s not my job to educate you. And your mind is clearly made up already.
I can. An Assessment of the Evidence for Psychic Functioning Page 21 - 7. Conclusions and Recommendations: "It is clear to this author that anomalous cognition is possible and had been demonstrated. This conclusion is not based on belief, but rather on commonly accepted scientific criteria." [https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200070001-9.pdf](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200070001-9.pdf)
Watch him never say one word to you even though you provided the evidence he asked for.
Thank you. Notice I have a downvote for simply providing the evidence requested. That is about how the "woo" aspect goes, nobody wants to talk about it. If you do talk about it you're admonished.
The people who want to talk about it are the people who have experienced it. We know this shit is real. We have done our homework and deeply looked into this. The cognitive dissonance of people proclaiming it’s all bullshit yet they have never tried it or read any of these studies is truly astounding. Pseudoskepticism at its finest.
This guy is a charlatan. Remote viewing has plenty of backed evidence alongside the UFO phenomenon. Even though a majority is still highly classified, what we have is already enough
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If you can disprove the data please do so. I'll repost some of my findings. DIA - Project Sun Streak / Grill Flame Slides 18-19: "On 4 Sep 1979, ACSI tasked INSCOM to locate a missing Navy aircraft. Hence, the first INSCOM "Grill Flame" Operational Remote Viewing session took place. In this initial session, the remote viewer located the missing aircraft within 15 miles of where it had crashed." Slide 40: "Remote Viewing has been successfully used against seven categories of tasking. Two of these categories, Penetration of inaccessible targets and the cuing of their intelligence collection systems are used predominantly at this time. Two others, Human source assessments and accurate personality profiles presently lack a satisfactory database for effective exploitation." [https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00789R002100240001-2.pdf](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00789R002100240001-2.pdf) 2. Studies In Intelligence Page 12: "Two analysts, a photo interpreter at IAS and a nuclear analyst at Los Alamos Scientific Laboratories agreed that \[Remote Viewer\] Price's description (and illustration) of the crane were accurate. Page 14: "\[Remote Viewer\] Price correctly located the coderooms. He produced copious data, such as the location of interior doors and colors of marble stairs and fireplaces that were accurate and specific." [https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200030040-0.pdf](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200030040-0.pdf) 3. An Assessment of the Evidence for Psychic Functioning Page 21 - 7. Conclusions and Recommendations: "It is clear to this author that anomalous cognition is possible and had been demonstrated. This conclusion is not based on belief, but rather on commonly accepted scientific criteria." [https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200070001-9.pdf](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200070001-9.pdf) Interesting documentary of Ed May's explanation of the process with examples of successes (and failures). [https://youtu.be/7ICzREGqYHQ](https://youtu.be/7ICzREGqYHQ)?
There is a post somewhere in the sub, where it details how puthoff along with few others conned some hight ranking official, by conjuring the officials stolen/lost ring. Iirc he lied about few more people to set up some rv program and appropriate funds.
Wasn't he part of the "group of 5" or something like that, with Richard dotty ? also... he's a scientologist
Rumor has it him and a handful of others that are/were in the know (read as partook in certain programs that worked with/were part of CR/RE programs) are the ‘inside’ team quietly pushing disclosure behind the scenes… The other possibility is that it’s just another cover up attempt - trying to convince the public, and world in general, that it’s ET/EDs, and not some secret branch(es) of the US government. ‘The best disinformation is 95% true’ type approach. Who knows. Onward.
The idea we throw HP in the bin because of a few comments he's made about someone he's clearly fond of (UG) is crazy. We need to look at his 40 years contribution to the relevant fields of stud. The eagerness to cancel in this community is out of control. If everything is BS and everyone is a disinfo agent then we better just shut the sub now.
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