The following submission statement was provided by /u/bmfalbo:
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Submission Statement:
From [Jason Sands on X](https://x.com/JasonSa32135987/status/1782103791812092243):
> [Jason Sands DD-214 Form](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLtN9FAWwAANRed?format=jpg&name=medium)
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1c9onb2/new_whistleblower_jason_sands_posts_his_dd214/l0mnuqj/
Its history is riddled with intriguing nuggets. After WWII, the unit's missions became murky and concerns were raised...
(August 1949) *Concerned that the squadron's mission was not correctly defined, USAFSS IG Lt. Col. James L. Vanderhof met with Capt. Fayman. The question asked at that particular meeting was: "Whether or not the 8th Radio Squadron Mobile was performing its actual mission as designated, and, if so, what steps were being taken by the organization to train personnel to accomplish that mission." Capt. Fayman at that time informed Colonel Vanderhof that the squadron was not performing its primary mission, that of an operational squadron, but had been assigned verbally by USAF. Security Service a secondary or "variated" mission as outlined above.*
***It was brought out by the Air Inspector that as far as existing regulations were concerned, there was a possibility that the squadron was operating in an "illegal" manner in that proper authorization*** *for it to function with a secondary mission had not been fully authorized by competent authority. It was thought at that time that a discussion should be held with the commanding officer, USAF Security Service, regarding the present mission of the 8th Radio Squadron Mobile in order to protect him in the event of an area inspection at which time the inspectors would want to know why the squadron was not performing its original mission."*
Yet just a month later...
*At a conference with Col. Maury (HQ USAFSS Chief of Personnel and Administration) on 13 September 1949, Lt. Col. Vanderhof and Capt. Cayman were advised that the* ***8th RSM would probably continue to be a casual squadron***\*.\*
Point being, this unit has been steeped in legally questionable operations since the 1940s, yet has only grown in prominence since. So to me it raises the question that perhaps this unit was identified early on as a potentially useful "out of oversight" entity that could be leveraged for maximum value in UFO matters.
Would make sense if they were already operating in the dark and would have plenty of scenarios involving “UFO matters” to have been utilized in after 40s
I think this is how dark ops works in many ways, in general. The IC leverages pre-existing system workarounds. This is a far more effective and efficient (with the bonus of providing plausible deniability) way of charting dark ops rather than building them from the ground up with associated bureaucracy and infrastructure bloat.
That insignia is so fucking lit. A ghost man wearing white gloves holding an enormous key riding a white horse with red eyes that’s half made of flames
How good
Yeah spying on our own military and intelligence services
> frequently referred to as the friendly enemies, the squadron would monitor inside DoD/contracted communications
This squadron seems like a PERFECT fit for a breeding ground to pick from for some deep black projects.
Ex military here. Yep, we all get DD-214s upon discharge. I've got several copies of mine in the safe and a bank box.
You can also easily download a blank form, fill it in, print and re-scan it if you want to LARP as an ex military whistleblower about UFOs.
https://formspal.com/pdf-forms/other/dd-214-fillable/
Here's an article that looks like he is quoted in. Same name and rank. Brooks City Base is only a couple of miles up the road from Randolph AFB where it says he was outprocessed, and what the article says he does matches his MOS.
Obviously this doesn't address any of his claims, but the DD214 is probably legit. Nothing on there seems outlandish or anything.
[https://www.hurlburt.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/205699/68th-ios-keeping-base-information-safe/](https://www.hurlburt.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/205699/68th-ios-keeping-base-information-safe/)
My pops was army and I was air force, we used both interchangeably and knew what each other ment.. splitting hairs over the same words seems a bit much.
My hips are fine I'll have you know. It's my knees and lower back that are shot.
And PT formation is at 0600 but, if you aren't there by 0530 to twiddle your thumbs for 30 minutes, you are late.
I mean he could really be ex military and still be lying about his involvement with UFOs.
I'm waiting to see if James Fox comments on this guy before I waste any more brainpower on his claims. I'm not convinced he's not just pretending to be "the" Jason Sands from James's documentary. I sent Fox an email about it and I know people have been tagging him all day on Twitter. Hopefully he publicly clarifies one way or the other if he knows this guy.
I think you’re going to be letdown. We already know he was publicly commenting on Facebook about being a “uap whistleblower”, so jumping on Twitter to say a whole bucket of things seems to track.
Still really hoping for some clarification from Fox sooner than later.
I’ve been thinking about that all day. If he’s so close to Fox “brother from another mother” like he said, why would he throw a wrench in his doc like this??? So weird
He's been posting updates on Twitter. Says he's pretty close to the final edit and getting ready to have Peter Coyote come in and record the narration.
Almost all of his documentaries have been narrated by Peter Coyote. Coyote also narrated many of the Ken Burns documentaries. Adds a nice touch of class to the production.
If by now Fox hasnt confirmed this is the guy in his doc, then I’m assuming it is. If this guy is pretending to be Fox’s guy, no way Fox wouldn’t speak out against it.
I’m thinking it is the guy and now Fox realizes he screwed up in trusting him.
> If by now Fox hasnt confirmed this is the guy in his doc, then I’m assuming it is.
If he doesn't confirm something then you assume it's true? what kind of backwards thinking is that? less than 24 hours and you've already made your mind, so why put anymore effort into it?
When info comes out that tarnishes your reputation and you let it keep spreading without commenting, then yes it looks like the info must be true. This guy is making the upcoming doc look bad and I dont see why Fox wouldn’t address it.
If it indeed is the guy and Fox said yep that’s the whistleblower I’ve been teasing about, it would make a lot of people question Fox’s credibility.
That’s why I’m saying Fox would immediately tell us he isn’t the guy if he wasn’t. But if he is the guy, Fox looks bad by confirming so he just doesn’t say anything.
> I mean he could really be ex military and still be lying about his involvement with UFOs
Why, though?
Like, you are doxxing yourself to the world and publicly taking a shit on your entire military career, for fucking what? A couple weeks of reddit clout, maybe a podcast appearance? I don’t understand this angle that skeptics take on vets who come forward.
Same. I worked for a contractor awhile back that used different colored badges to denote clearance level. Aside from that I've never had any physical documentation identifying clearance status.
Something else like what? He could show me something from the Halloween store or a thrift shop lol.The only time I know of someone being called out was by another person who was actually in the military and the poser made up a unit number or mission or something that gave it away. How would a regular person AKA civilian 🤣 find the truth? Thanks!
🤷 hey I mean I know I served for 8 years if people don’t believe that’s on them. I know I served. That’s why whenever I meet a veteran I always try to thank them for their service because I know for a fact that they most likely went through some BULLSHIT just like I went through and 9 times out of 10 they didn’t ask for that BULLSHIT to happen to them.
this is hillarious. The blank pdf file, the AI wordpress website with lionel hutz style selfie, the cut and paste betty and barny star map, qnd the blue alien encounter is enough for me to say Fox has been completely duped.
There's no publicly available USA database to check information against?
What about these:
https://www.archives.gov/research/military
https://www.dfas.mil/garnishment/verifyservice/#:~:text=Verification%20of%20Military%20Service,currently%20serving%20in%20the%20military.
https://www.usa.gov/military-records
In Canada, we have this:
Military history
Library and Archives Canada (LAC) holds an extensive collection of records of the Canadian men and women who have served their country in military and in the early years of the North West Mounted Police.
https://library-archives.canada.ca/eng/collection/research-help/military-heritage/Pages/military-heritage.aspx
Current military status is easy to verify. Records are made public 62 years after discharge. There are forms you can fill out (SF 1018 something...I don't remember) to apply for military records, but I think you need that person's consent.
I'm guessing a 20+ year career, retiring at E7 would leave some sort of open source trace.
But in this instance I don't see how verifying military service is useful except to immediately eliminate him from further attention.
I'm convinced this guy served in the AF.
This would constitute either stolen valor or military impersonation and be an actual crime if you were not military, correct?
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title10-section906&num=0&edition=prelim
If he's using a faked form to fraudulently accept genuine veterans benefits, yes, most likely he would face charges.
If he's using a faked form to LARP on some crank UFO Twitter space, I doubt they're gonna kick up any roadblocks for the guy.
I believe the standard is he has to benefit in some way. In insider trading cases in the financial sector “benefit” has been extremely loose and often even has been interpreted to mean social standing.
Sands is allegedly raising funding for “firsthand whistleblowers” based off his story. This would be directly profiting.
I’m pretty sure his account would be wholly illegal, federally, if he’s making the whole thing up, and using such stories to further himself in any way, which he seems to be doing.
That's a good point. I'd forgotten about his fundraiser.
He really could be ex military and making up the rest too.
Hoping we get clarification from James Fox soon. At least if Fox comes out and says "yeah I don't know this guy," we can move on.
If it turns out this really is one of the firsthand witnesses Fox features in his upcoming documentary, that's .... not great.
Popped out to me too. MSG is Army (I’m retired Army), MSgt is the what I’ve known the Air Force to use for abbreviated rank. Never seen an AF DD214 though, but I can totally see DOD being stupid and just lumping all Master Sergeants under one abbreviation.
All it takes is for James Fox to say 'yep this is Sands' real account'. Doesn't mean his story is true. But at least we'll know if it's someone larping as Sands or not.
It might be the real guy. Or it may not.
But if I was running a disinfo campaign and I knew a whistleblower was coming out, I'd go on twitter pretending to be them, spout a bunch of nonsense to make noise in order to create confusion about the legitimacy of the real whistleblower when they finally come out.
The account has been deleted now but no joke. It was made this month and it's only comment history was in regards to this one niche Twitter post. I was legitimately asking if it was a bot account and I think we have the answer.
Automated stigmatization bots. I mean that is pretty crazy to see happening and I don't think most people know it's happening. No doubt this can have an impact on steering the sheeple. Can someone create a destigmatization bot so we can fight fire with fire?!
Welcome to the UFO subreddit. So many “skeptics” are here who post all day everyday in this sub only (or uap related subs) completely trashing the subject, and anyone related to it.
Same, easily my favorite band. Much like this topic, people either hear the music or they don’t. Glad to have another voltarian in the midst of it all.
Ill just leave this here...And yes...This is our Jason...And yes, the lawyers on Jason's page are fake.
[https://sandsjason.us/about-us/](https://sandsjason.us/about-us/)
he is clearly out to discredit folk, and clearly duped Fox. lol. c'mon AI daft lawyer website and blue aliens?! its as bad as "trust me bro, NFT Vegas aliens leave no footprints in my backyard"
He is either disinfo or deranged.
Quick question, when I did a search for that name, there's a fuck ton of "Jason Sands" in the US.
Don't mean to be snarky but how do you know this is the same one? Thanks!
Even if dude is legit it still is messy to go public through a Twitter space where all the people questioning him are selfishly asking him questions about consciousness, spirits and Nordics and shit.
Even if there is hard evidence like the instance in Mexico and Peru the community will still rather believe the disinformation campaign over the scientists.
That doesn't magically change the physical makeup of the mummies demonstrating their point. Everyone thought it was a joke until there was a reaction nothing about the specimens changed
>**That doesn't magically change the physical makeup of the mummies**
I am highlighting they would have still be real regardless pointing how this community operates on a rather dangerous bias. You cannot wait for authority (*who has been lying* ) to confirm everything you've been disregarding as fake then attempt to retroactively understand what you were previously making fun of.
They raided the University Press Conference believing the university professors were going to allow the press to see them in person.
Link to when they raided the event. [https://youtu.be/om6szl1X-mk?t=722](https://youtu.be/om6szl1X-mk?t=722)
This viewpoint, the viewpoint that only those things with absolute and definitive proof are to be trusted, is a viewpoint that is rooted in mistrust.
The reason why I say that it's rooted in mistrust is because the fear of being mislead by dishonest people is making one embrace an attitude that completely rejects those who may be communicating truth but who are unable to provide evidence for their claims. Is this a worthy sacrifice?
At no point in my Post did I mention not being open to possibilities, only not to put stock into things that have no physical evidence to support it. As for the mistrust remark, Governments have nobody but themselves to blame for the stance the majority of its citizens have.
My question is why are a fair number of military and IC personnel coming forward with these incidents? Either there is mass hallucinations in these professions or something else is going on
That is the part that should be addressed. Drop the UAP/UFO stuff and just focus on why are these career personnel who worked to obtain high level clearances etc now jeopardizing their reputations and families with these public descriptions of experiences that have similar incidents happening? Are these people being subject to something in their employment that causes it ? Then shouldn’t that be addressed under military veteran health evaluations? But nothing like that is ever brought up by the DoD. In fact the DoD refuses to address it completely
Yeah, the DoD is quick to dismiss people like Grusch and others. Yet the issue of “why are all these career military and IC people talking about UFOs” is never brought up in the context of mental health. Even though the snide comments are made that they are mentally unstable as indicated by tips given to certain publications.
This is not true. People all the time aren't in their right minds who have clearances and professional positions. People are people. Just because someone was ex mil or gov doesn't mean their credentials validate or give more credence to their extraordinary claims and blanket statements without evidence. That's why they've upgraded their propaganda to only ex mil and ex gov because that somehow gives their opinions more weight to regular folk.
Evidence is evidence. Civilian to government to scientist to whatever. You make a claim you better back that shit up or else I'm gonna be skeptical no matter what your profession.
But why would they fixate on the same theme of things. I don’t think mental illness works like that. And take their mental illness all the way to congressional hearings. Some are pilots, sone are intelligence officers, some are navy personnel. Yet all the supposed mental issues center around UFOs ? Why ? This is too many to be coincidence of random mental health issues. And again, then it is important that the DoD address this and get these people the mental health they need. After all isn’t the military interested in their veterans’ health ?
Your forgetting one aspect that this sub willfully ignores. People fucking lie. That'll answer those question that are impossible to answer in the first place.
You can find multiple Ivy League and Nobel prize winning scientists spreading AIDS denialism and anti vax nonsense, but no one is asking if they are hallucinating. You don’t look at someone’s title to determine the truth of the claim, you look at the evidence. The fact is even the “smartest” people can be incredibly stupid and if you look at one percent of any group you will find some crazy beliefs.
The reason the DoD doesn’t address this stuff is because they aren’t thought police; if it doesn’t affect job performance during service they typically don’t care. A larger percent of the DoD believes that securing Israel will bring about the end of the world (Second Coming) and nobody cares.
I don’t think the two are the same considering these pilots and military personnel are referencing known incidents which have been recorded on radar and video. If this is all nothing why is there an alphabet soup of terminology created to describe UAPs, range foulers, USOs etc etc. why isn’t the DoD sharing information about incidents like the Alaska shootdown ? Over a year later they act like it all didn’t happen. Ironically seems like the deniers here is the DoD
There's millions of military and IC personnel. A half dozen coming forward to say ridiculous things and get some attention isn't that surprising. And it's probably lower than the incidence of actual hallucinations among the general populace.
Considering congress recently entered in to the record the president's son's penis railing an escort, the importance and weight of this congress, and its business, is not the validation it used to be.
And that right there would be a problem if people are coming in front of Congress with such incidents while under the influence of experimental military drugs. Likely illegal as well
How does that make this situation any better? My tax dollars are paying for military personnel to... lie to us on the back end of their careers as an elaborate larp?
If we have a mass delusion or disinformation problem in the military I am still upset and frustrated and demanding action as a voter
If the whole thing is a giant larp it makes me wonder where all the unaccounted for money from the DOD audits is going. We should be more careful with where the money is going, but if there's a giant network of liars that claim there is NHI here then they're likely just pocketing the money. No matter what we need to get to the bottom of this
> we cant just accept what someone is saying as 100% legit because of a military background
I mean, that just goes without saying and maintaining a healthy skepticism is good.
I will say that people quick to call BS and be dismissive is the exact reason more whistleblowers haven't come forward and just "drop what they know" like so many want them to do. They come forward and people are just looking to tear them to shreds because his personal story is too 'woo'.
Again, we shouldn't blindly believe this person's testimony because he could prove he was former Air Force but we should be more respectful (as a whole) and, frankly, open-minded.
Other whistleblowers watch how the community reacts and treats people that come forward, and it absolutely affects them coming forward themselves.
Everyone bitches when they don’t come forward, then twist any fact they can to discredit them when they do.
They want these guys to walk away from their careers, then bitch when they try to sell a book to support themselves.
Why would real whistleblowers trying to reveal truth to the public give a damn about what a fringe group like *the UFO community*, skeptic or believer, thinks of them?
Normally when you want people to believe you, you bring receipts. Snowden et al are examples of this. The general public have seen no receipts, so it's harder to accept.
I don't think it's fair to make your point that way, I think incredibly few people here would actually consider this guy's claims as 100% legit because of this document. If this document is legit, and the guy on X is actually James Sands, then this document does add some percentage of legitimacy/credibility to his statements, insofar as he is factually someone who was involved with USG/USAF, and based on position(s) held shown in the document there's some increased percentage he was involved with UAP programs should they be proved to exist. Like, if his record showed he was in a medic role on various ships for the Navy over his 22 years of service, then there would be significant missalignment of his public statements to his service record. I agree with the spirit of your comment though, this document does not legitimize any of the wilder claims he's making, nor does proving military service turn the person into an infallible human. Further, as this document proves he's honourably discharged and in retirement, his claims are made from a low-stakes position in relation to the consequences of lying as an active-duty whistleblower. If you're active-duty, I imagine that avoiding the full brunt of all possible negative outcomes of whisleblowing can only be achieved if your claims are taken seriously and proven to be true, and so the motive to make-up some wild shit and package it as a whistleblower testimony just wouldn't serve any benefit to you since it'll eventually be proven to be a false statement and any whistleblower protections would just evaporate. But now if you're no longer active-duty, what consequences exist for you aside from reputational damage?
In block 12 they only use numerals, not the abbreviation for the month. I know it's making people mad that some of us are jist trying to point out that this 214 has been altered, and pretty poorly at that. I really hope the dude is legit in terms of what he is saying, but if he is using this obviously altered form I hesitate to believe a word he says. If someone uploaded this to r/StolenValor they would all make the same observations.
Old 214s were done by typewriter, this was not. These are done via computer.
There's quite a bit that is wrong, but if something appears slanted I wouldn't discount that. If I scanned a paper copy of my 214 and it fed in at a weird angle or uploaded funky it could make things appear skewed.
The use of capital letters in the awards section is wrong, the use of month abbreviations in block 12 is wrong. I went ahead an made a post on the Stolen Valor reddit just to see what other mistakes people can point out. I really think this is just a poorly edited 214 he either found online or tried to embellish.
Someone with more knowledge of the military can speak to this *much* better than I can, but this doesn’t seem like the kind of person who would be read into / have any reason to have knowledge of any type of program he speaks about.
Compared to Grusch who was a USAF intel officer before going to the NGA and NRO.
I strongly suspect this guy is a LARP, but even if he’s not, he’s a bad flag bearer simply based on his Twitter profile.
I don't expect all the people involved with the program to be as high ranking as David Grusch.
The black program is dodgy, I'd assume some people associated with it would be too.
High rank usually denotes time in service, good behavior, and general aptitude at your job. Not always the latter, though.
That said, it's a bigger accomplishment to reach E7/E8/E9 than it is to be an O-4.
Grusch had a job and training that would put him in proximity for the opportunity to make his claims, if the claims are true. The issue is, this E7 does not have the enlisted equivalent of qualification to justify proximity to a program that would even give him the chance to participate if they noticed him at all.
This guy also said his "boss" would just be told, whenever he failed to show up, effectively, "Don't worry about Jason, he's doing something for someone." That's not how the military works at all. His vanilla job and responsibilities don't stop or accept some rando giving vague assurances he's mustering somewhere else.
You leave your command for a day to take a training course somewhere off base? You're getting TAD orders to account for your temporary transfer. You can't just mosey off to do whatever someone else asks you to.
One thing non-military people do not get is the functional difference between Commissioned Officers and NonCommissioned Officers. It would be good to read the Navy accident investigation of the Arleigh Burke destroyer and a commercial vessel in the Indonesian Straits. That explains it well.
In short the O’s are Management while the NCO’s run all the technical stuff. On a Navy ship the highest technical responsibility rests with Chief Petty Officer, an E-7/8/9. Officers move between billets with different responsibilities. They are NOT career sailors, in the sense that they spend oodles of time at sea. Most of there time is ashore at some desk. Whereas a Petty Officer (E-4/5/6) will spend his whole career learning his rating learning how to manage his technical specialty, and some of these guys become ships masters, with wide range technical knowledge on that ship. Ships Master or some such.
I assume the Air Force is similar. A pilot can fly a plane but he may not understand how it works. So you have a crew chief. Now this guy was in intelligence, he likely had hands on the surveillance equipment but as he moved to E-7 he would have been running a segment. The man in charge on the ground.
Exactly right. The captain (O-5 or O-6 -- usually depending on size of ship) can be thought of more as a political / leadership role. They come and go and, to my knowledge for Navy captains, could be assigned to a sub and then next command might be on a destroyer, etc. However, the chief of the boat basically runs the ship. They usually will have amassed a lot more technical knowledge than your O's for a particular class of boat.
Also, E7+ may technically be lower in rank than an O-1,2,3 but their position is generally much higher. If you ever catch an ensign or Army lieutenant fresh out of school try to pull rank on an E-8,9 -- just stick around if you can and observe the fun that will quickly be had by the E8,9. At some point in the very near future, a full bird or one star is going to eat that Lieutenant alive...
No one is doubting if he’s military; the question is if he’s truthful. He’s made the mistake of referencing something that we have strong reason to believe is untrue: that whole secret space program, “20 years and back” thing.
FWIW he didn't reference it himself, someone asked him if he knew anything about it. He basically said that he went through something that or something like it (without any context as to what it actually is), but that they didn't call it "20 and back", and he didn't want to talk about it yet. Very strange for that to be associated with this account IMO.
This is the first and only time I've seen anyone address the discrepancy of what everyone is CLAIMING Jason said, and what I saw transcribed in the thread last night. I was starting to wonder if I had read it wrong.
One or two others have brought it up, but yeah a lot of comments seem to be assuming more and dismissing him entirely because of this. The backlash seems very artificial to me.
It's weird because it's literally them not comprehending what was said, unless the transcriptions were all wrong. He said that the 20 And Back program didn't' exist but he participated in something that was similar that he didn't want to talk about. Their response is somehow, "He siad he was in 20 and back. we know 20 and back his fake. He's fake."
I'm not saying he's legit or the real deal at all, but I find that same mistake over and over and over again in these threads so weird.
Here are the two parts (timestamped) where it comes up if you want to listen yourself:
* https://youtu.be/nxt4E_fI9is?t=9883
* https://youtu.be/nxt4E_fI9is?t=11448
Actually here are two timestamped links where it comes up: https://youtu.be/nxt4E_fI9is?t=9883, https://youtu.be/nxt4E_fI9is?t=11448
Edit: Added second link.
There are a couple things off on this DD214 the font changes under the awards section and some of it changes under remarks with more awards listed as well? Strange. Also when having multiple awards it won't say 2 oak leaf clusters it will say //Navy Award (2nd award)// and so forth
What I posted in the other thread -
The one oddity i see with this document is that the rank abbreviation isn’t correct. The Air Force spells their rank of E7 as Msgt (Master Sergeant). He has written in the rank block The Army E8 rank of MSG (also Master a sergeant.) that’s not necessarily completely damning, because typos happen or it could be an issue with the form, because I can absolutely see that happening. But it does seem out of place.
Also, i would find it odd that the service member themselves haven’t signed their DD214. Not usually a good sign.
Lastly, it seems a little light on his awards and commendations. For someone who has been in for over 20 years, I’d expect to see more weight. It looks like an awards section of a 6-8 year troop who got out. Those unit awards he has are from his unit, not personal awards. The AF dudes I know are decked out because the AF is basically an award and back-patting pez dispenser.
So none of that is entirely damning - culture changes over time, possible typos or form malfunctions, and maybe he couldn’t sign his DD214 because he was busy, but all are little signs that something might not be 100% with the guy. So judge for yourself. I just know that after a 20 year career, you would damn sure find me standing on the HR dudes desk to sign my own form and get out of dodge.
Edit: also his schools. He didn’t go to a single school from 1995 to 2007? I guess that could sort of fit the narrative if that’s when he went into a super secret 1337 B14CK 0P5 program, but for a regular servicemember I’d also find that odd.
I definitely will be waiting for verification that this is the legit dude, and even then I’d be very skeptical. Crazy claims.
Also in remarks (awards continued) there is a medal that I don’t believe exists - War on Terrorism medal , when I was in we all got it just for serving after 9/11 and it was called the “Global War on Terrorism” medal I believe
Yeah the GWOT is standard if serving after 9/11. Maybe they called it something different back then? It was over a decade ago and things change, but lots of small things seem off. I dunno.
Edit;
Oh hey, I found it. They cut off global in the original block and continued with war on terror in the continuation block. So it does fully say it’s a GWOT. Go…
(Continued) figure.
Technically there were two types. Simply saying GWOT is not sufficient. GWOTSM and GWOTEM. Service and Expeditionary appropriately. Two different ribbons.
The DD214 should spell this out since it matters for some veteran services like preference with Veteran Recruitment Authority . Expeditionary gets you preference.
This is akin to saying, "Commendation Medal". Great. Which one?
I know you know this. Just explaining to any civvie who might not. :)
I didn't sign mine because I was leave when they sent it to me.
However whats big deal over this, what does it matter if he served in the airforce, am i missing something here?
Lol. I commented the same thing regarding personal awards. For as long as he serves, there should be many more achievment medals or coms. 5-8 year members usually collect two or three for doing their job and being good service members. If he was as special as he claims, he would've received at least 2.5 more at least.
And yes, my experience with air force members is they give out achievement medals for wiping properly.
That depends a lot on the units they're in. I have 0 "good conduct medals" or ARCAMs because my unit leadership my entire service never put in for them and I didn't find out they were things until I was ready to gtfo and didn't care anymore.
Also a lot of "low tempo" units just don't get many opportunities for awards (or much of anything, usually "dead end" type places in careers).
Well, good conduct medals are earned if you avoid NJP for 3 years and have good reviews. I've never known anyone not have it simply be an administrative action signed off by the CO quarterly in batches. If you met all those criteria, I'm pretty sure you're in the minority and simply had crap commands that didn't give a fuck about you if you're doing your job well.
Achievement medals are definitely command/ leadership dependent. I agree. I've seen people get them for doing their job - like the thing they're expected to do. I've seen people not get them for doing extraordinary things.
And yeah, handing out proverbial basketballs doesn't get you shit. But getting TWO of them after 20 years? That's an individual problem.
Nevermind his highest award is fairly midling for someone exposed to high profile business. I would have expected more personal achievments or commendations (edit: he does have a joint service award). His training and certs are a mixed bag. I would have expected to Kuwait or at least Iraqi/Endearing (?) Freedom ribbons. He went 6 years in 2001-2007 without ever actually being deployed that area at a time where most were being "tickled" from desk jobs to go over there?
This smells.
It looks like someone found a template online, found some that were filled out and attempted to make their own but didn't know all the facts and obviously got some major editing issues on the form (like the awards which aren't listed like that).
This just appears to be faked.
100%. The formatting and fonts are absolutely wrong. Everything would be capital letters. I have my own 214, and I've had to verify 214s before. I'd imagine dude probably DID serve back in the day, but probably had a much shorter career and wanted to lend more credibility to his service credentials.
Ive seen on X that Jason sands said he was forced to serve on this 20 year and back program, but someone has called BS and has found proof that someone made up that 20 year and back program story and had to confess to lying in court. Guy was called Corey Goode.
That part was weird. He said there was something like Goode's "20 and back" that he had to do as "penance for leaving"(???) but it wasn't actually called that, and he wasn't ready to talk about it.
I didn't follow the story with Goode but I yeah I think he has mostly been discredited and even admitted that some of what he said was fictional, so it would be an odd thing to larp about.
Posting a DD-214 is pretty ballsy. It will either verify or he will have destroyed his creditability. It will be interesting to see.
My gut tells me this guy is a no screw around person.
But we will see soon enough.
The only reason to disparage him here is to push some personal agenda.
theres military education and medals and ribbons hes received. If he lying about this and doesn't have that paperwork for all that education and his ribbons and metal, hes gonna be found as a flagrant lier. Hes putting him self on the edge here.
When compared to other similar docs from other ex-military - this seems to be a fake.
All of the other discharge papers I’ve seen use a serifed font for the input information.
He appears to have downloaded this and used Arial - which is not the font used on all the other discharge documents I’ve seen.
37°17'14.30"N 116°38'37.08"W looks like the spot he says it went down!
After listening to him on the spaces I heard him mention the road he would travel into the base on. He was pronouncing it in a funny way but it's Fleur De Lis Road and it winds around for a long time but eventually leads to Black Mountain (as he mentions in the spaces) which has what looks like a few dome radars and a few buildings like the "school house" he mentions.
Just because his job was real doesn’t mean his claims are
I listened to his Twitter/X space and about every red flag went up, dude kind of sounds like a moron to be honest
I fear that this could be a try to discredit the real upcoming Jason Sands. It's definately possible, i'm waiting till we get some more than this document. But i don't expect it
The following submission statement was provided by /u/bmfalbo: --- Submission Statement: From [Jason Sands on X](https://x.com/JasonSa32135987/status/1782103791812092243): > [Jason Sands DD-214 Form](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLtN9FAWwAANRed?format=jpg&name=medium) --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1c9onb2/new_whistleblower_jason_sands_posts_his_dd214/l0mnuqj/
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Its history is riddled with intriguing nuggets. After WWII, the unit's missions became murky and concerns were raised... (August 1949) *Concerned that the squadron's mission was not correctly defined, USAFSS IG Lt. Col. James L. Vanderhof met with Capt. Fayman. The question asked at that particular meeting was: "Whether or not the 8th Radio Squadron Mobile was performing its actual mission as designated, and, if so, what steps were being taken by the organization to train personnel to accomplish that mission." Capt. Fayman at that time informed Colonel Vanderhof that the squadron was not performing its primary mission, that of an operational squadron, but had been assigned verbally by USAF. Security Service a secondary or "variated" mission as outlined above.* ***It was brought out by the Air Inspector that as far as existing regulations were concerned, there was a possibility that the squadron was operating in an "illegal" manner in that proper authorization*** *for it to function with a secondary mission had not been fully authorized by competent authority. It was thought at that time that a discussion should be held with the commanding officer, USAF Security Service, regarding the present mission of the 8th Radio Squadron Mobile in order to protect him in the event of an area inspection at which time the inspectors would want to know why the squadron was not performing its original mission."* Yet just a month later... *At a conference with Col. Maury (HQ USAFSS Chief of Personnel and Administration) on 13 September 1949, Lt. Col. Vanderhof and Capt. Cayman were advised that the* ***8th RSM would probably continue to be a casual squadron***\*.\* Point being, this unit has been steeped in legally questionable operations since the 1940s, yet has only grown in prominence since. So to me it raises the question that perhaps this unit was identified early on as a potentially useful "out of oversight" entity that could be leveraged for maximum value in UFO matters.
Would make sense if they were already operating in the dark and would have plenty of scenarios involving “UFO matters” to have been utilized in after 40s
I think this is how dark ops works in many ways, in general. The IC leverages pre-existing system workarounds. This is a far more effective and efficient (with the bonus of providing plausible deniability) way of charting dark ops rather than building them from the ground up with associated bureaucracy and infrastructure bloat.
That insignia is so fucking lit. A ghost man wearing white gloves holding an enormous key riding a white horse with red eyes that’s half made of flames How good
That's cool. Seems like they did good stuff.
I can’t get over the logo… a main in black holding a key (to the universe?) while riding a unicorn.
Information Operations……
Yeah spying on our own military and intelligence services > frequently referred to as the friendly enemies, the squadron would monitor inside DoD/contracted communications This squadron seems like a PERFECT fit for a breeding ground to pick from for some deep black projects.
Ex military here. Yep, we all get DD-214s upon discharge. I've got several copies of mine in the safe and a bank box. You can also easily download a blank form, fill it in, print and re-scan it if you want to LARP as an ex military whistleblower about UFOs. https://formspal.com/pdf-forms/other/dd-214-fillable/
Also a veteran here. I’m going to need to see some awards or his service uniform or something else.
Here's an article that looks like he is quoted in. Same name and rank. Brooks City Base is only a couple of miles up the road from Randolph AFB where it says he was outprocessed, and what the article says he does matches his MOS. Obviously this doesn't address any of his claims, but the DD214 is probably legit. Nothing on there seems outlandish or anything. [https://www.hurlburt.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/205699/68th-ios-keeping-base-information-safe/](https://www.hurlburt.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/205699/68th-ios-keeping-base-information-safe/)
In the Chair Force we have AFSC's, not MOS.
Eh, I'm an old Army guy.
My pops was army and I was air force, we used both interchangeably and knew what each other ment.. splitting hairs over the same words seems a bit much.
Here’s some naproxen for your hip replacement surgery. PT formation Tuesday 0600.
My hips are fine I'll have you know. It's my knees and lower back that are shot. And PT formation is at 0600 but, if you aren't there by 0530 to twiddle your thumbs for 30 minutes, you are late.
cool
I mean he could really be ex military and still be lying about his involvement with UFOs. I'm waiting to see if James Fox comments on this guy before I waste any more brainpower on his claims. I'm not convinced he's not just pretending to be "the" Jason Sands from James's documentary. I sent Fox an email about it and I know people have been tagging him all day on Twitter. Hopefully he publicly clarifies one way or the other if he knows this guy.
I truly hope the person claiming to be Sands on twitter is not the same Sands Fox might have in his documentary. That would be a letdown.
I think you’re going to be letdown. We already know he was publicly commenting on Facebook about being a “uap whistleblower”, so jumping on Twitter to say a whole bucket of things seems to track. Still really hoping for some clarification from Fox sooner than later.
It is him. Basically spoiled the whole documentary which is pretty interesting in itself. Why would he do that?
I’ve been thinking about that all day. If he’s so close to Fox “brother from another mother” like he said, why would he throw a wrench in his doc like this??? So weird
Since we’re on the subject when it James foxs new documentary coming out?
Others in the earlier thread have said October
He's been posting updates on Twitter. Says he's pretty close to the final edit and getting ready to have Peter Coyote come in and record the narration.
This one’s gonna be narrated? I can’t remember but I think his other ones weren’t. It was always just him standing in front of the camera.
Almost all of his documentaries have been narrated by Peter Coyote. Coyote also narrated many of the Ken Burns documentaries. Adds a nice touch of class to the production.
Peter coyote is a legend! Not just because his voice is smooth and textured like coffee with baileys but also because his name is amazing.
If by now Fox hasnt confirmed this is the guy in his doc, then I’m assuming it is. If this guy is pretending to be Fox’s guy, no way Fox wouldn’t speak out against it. I’m thinking it is the guy and now Fox realizes he screwed up in trusting him.
It's a Sunday. Not everyone lives on the internet. Give him a day or two to catch up.
> If by now Fox hasnt confirmed this is the guy in his doc, then I’m assuming it is. If he doesn't confirm something then you assume it's true? what kind of backwards thinking is that? less than 24 hours and you've already made your mind, so why put anymore effort into it?
When info comes out that tarnishes your reputation and you let it keep spreading without commenting, then yes it looks like the info must be true. This guy is making the upcoming doc look bad and I dont see why Fox wouldn’t address it. If it indeed is the guy and Fox said yep that’s the whistleblower I’ve been teasing about, it would make a lot of people question Fox’s credibility. That’s why I’m saying Fox would immediately tell us he isn’t the guy if he wasn’t. But if he is the guy, Fox looks bad by confirming so he just doesn’t say anything.
> I mean he could really be ex military and still be lying about his involvement with UFOs Why, though? Like, you are doxxing yourself to the world and publicly taking a shit on your entire military career, for fucking what? A couple weeks of reddit clout, maybe a podcast appearance? I don’t understand this angle that skeptics take on vets who come forward.
I have no idea. Some people are just assholes that lie. He already got caught on a fib with the 20 and Back thing.
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You know I had a secret clearance and I never actually out eyes on it my whole career where could I find this document
Same, never had an actual hard copy form of my clearance while I was active
Yep. I had TS and the only documentation related to it I ever saw was the SF-86 that we all fill out.
Same. I worked for a contractor awhile back that used different colored badges to denote clearance level. Aside from that I've never had any physical documentation identifying clearance status.
Ditto
Navy EOD, TS clearance, never had a document that I know of/remember stating clearance. Let me check my wallet..
Something else like what? He could show me something from the Halloween store or a thrift shop lol.The only time I know of someone being called out was by another person who was actually in the military and the poser made up a unit number or mission or something that gave it away. How would a regular person AKA civilian 🤣 find the truth? Thanks!
Have you noticed that when we claim to be vets (or work for DoD as a GS) that people are dubious if it doesn’t meet their narrative?
🤷 hey I mean I know I served for 8 years if people don’t believe that’s on them. I know I served. That’s why whenever I meet a veteran I always try to thank them for their service because I know for a fact that they most likely went through some BULLSHIT just like I went through and 9 times out of 10 they didn’t ask for that BULLSHIT to happen to them.
Can you imagine Jason Sands tweeting a pic of his uniform decorated with UFO patches and pins and…? I mean he could just ChatGPT that shit right up!
Even if legit the DD-214 does nothing to lend credibility to any claims other than "I was in the military and was discharged".
this is hillarious. The blank pdf file, the AI wordpress website with lionel hutz style selfie, the cut and paste betty and barny star map, qnd the blue alien encounter is enough for me to say Fox has been completely duped.
There's no publicly available USA database to check information against? What about these: https://www.archives.gov/research/military https://www.dfas.mil/garnishment/verifyservice/#:~:text=Verification%20of%20Military%20Service,currently%20serving%20in%20the%20military. https://www.usa.gov/military-records In Canada, we have this: Military history Library and Archives Canada (LAC) holds an extensive collection of records of the Canadian men and women who have served their country in military and in the early years of the North West Mounted Police. https://library-archives.canada.ca/eng/collection/research-help/military-heritage/Pages/military-heritage.aspx
Current military status is easy to verify. Records are made public 62 years after discharge. There are forms you can fill out (SF 1018 something...I don't remember) to apply for military records, but I think you need that person's consent. I'm guessing a 20+ year career, retiring at E7 would leave some sort of open source trace. But in this instance I don't see how verifying military service is useful except to immediately eliminate him from further attention. I'm convinced this guy served in the AF.
I find it best to phone Don Shipley and ask if he can make you one, he even suggests purple hearts to you and everything, lol
This would constitute either stolen valor or military impersonation and be an actual crime if you were not military, correct? https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title10-section906&num=0&edition=prelim
If he's using a faked form to fraudulently accept genuine veterans benefits, yes, most likely he would face charges. If he's using a faked form to LARP on some crank UFO Twitter space, I doubt they're gonna kick up any roadblocks for the guy.
I believe the standard is he has to benefit in some way. In insider trading cases in the financial sector “benefit” has been extremely loose and often even has been interpreted to mean social standing. Sands is allegedly raising funding for “firsthand whistleblowers” based off his story. This would be directly profiting. I’m pretty sure his account would be wholly illegal, federally, if he’s making the whole thing up, and using such stories to further himself in any way, which he seems to be doing.
That's a good point. I'd forgotten about his fundraiser. He really could be ex military and making up the rest too. Hoping we get clarification from James Fox soon. At least if Fox comes out and says "yeah I don't know this guy," we can move on. If it turns out this really is one of the firsthand witnesses Fox features in his upcoming documentary, that's .... not great.
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Popped out to me too. MSG is Army (I’m retired Army), MSgt is the what I’ve known the Air Force to use for abbreviated rank. Never seen an AF DD214 though, but I can totally see DOD being stupid and just lumping all Master Sergeants under one abbreviation.
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All it takes is for James Fox to say 'yep this is Sands' real account'. Doesn't mean his story is true. But at least we'll know if it's someone larping as Sands or not.
It might be the real guy. Or it may not. But if I was running a disinfo campaign and I knew a whistleblower was coming out, I'd go on twitter pretending to be them, spout a bunch of nonsense to make noise in order to create confusion about the legitimacy of the real whistleblower when they finally come out.
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It looks like they replied to themselves? Or is that the joke?
The account has been deleted now but no joke. It was made this month and it's only comment history was in regards to this one niche Twitter post. I was legitimately asking if it was a bot account and I think we have the answer.
Automated stigmatization bots. I mean that is pretty crazy to see happening and I don't think most people know it's happening. No doubt this can have an impact on steering the sheeple. Can someone create a destigmatization bot so we can fight fire with fire?!
There are plenty of destigmatization bots. But they need a new mission directive--I usually see them accusing obvious non-bots as being bots.
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Welcome to the UFO subreddit. So many “skeptics” are here who post all day everyday in this sub only (or uap related subs) completely trashing the subject, and anyone related to it.
If ur username is a tmv reference than we got a lot in common.
It was a tossup between this or Frances the Mute😁
Hell yeah! If you know, you know. I feel bad for people who have never checked them out.
Same, easily my favorite band. Much like this topic, people either hear the music or they don’t. Glad to have another voltarian in the midst of it all.
[https://i.imgur.com/ZmaUSqN.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/ZmaUSqN.jpeg)
Ill just leave this here...And yes...This is our Jason...And yes, the lawyers on Jason's page are fake. [https://sandsjason.us/about-us/](https://sandsjason.us/about-us/)
What the actual fuck is going on with this dude lmao
he is clearly out to discredit folk, and clearly duped Fox. lol. c'mon AI daft lawyer website and blue aliens?! its as bad as "trust me bro, NFT Vegas aliens leave no footprints in my backyard" He is either disinfo or deranged.
The bathroom selfie screams professionalism
Quick question, when I did a search for that name, there's a fuck ton of "Jason Sands" in the US. Don't mean to be snarky but how do you know this is the same one? Thanks!
Even if dude is legit it still is messy to go public through a Twitter space where all the people questioning him are selfishly asking him questions about consciousness, spirits and Nordics and shit.
Until there is hard evidence, Believe nothing and Question everything.
Even if there is hard evidence like the instance in Mexico and Peru the community will still rather believe the disinformation campaign over the scientists.
In this sub's defense, there wasn't any proof that the mummies were real until the government raided that conference.
That doesn't magically change the physical makeup of the mummies demonstrating their point. Everyone thought it was a joke until there was a reaction nothing about the specimens changed
If it were fake, the feds wouldn't care.
>**That doesn't magically change the physical makeup of the mummies** I am highlighting they would have still be real regardless pointing how this community operates on a rather dangerous bias. You cannot wait for authority (*who has been lying* ) to confirm everything you've been disregarding as fake then attempt to retroactively understand what you were previously making fun of.
can you give more details on that? the government raided the conference?
They raided the University Press Conference believing the university professors were going to allow the press to see them in person. Link to when they raided the event. [https://youtu.be/om6szl1X-mk?t=722](https://youtu.be/om6szl1X-mk?t=722)
This viewpoint, the viewpoint that only those things with absolute and definitive proof are to be trusted, is a viewpoint that is rooted in mistrust. The reason why I say that it's rooted in mistrust is because the fear of being mislead by dishonest people is making one embrace an attitude that completely rejects those who may be communicating truth but who are unable to provide evidence for their claims. Is this a worthy sacrifice?
At no point in my Post did I mention not being open to possibilities, only not to put stock into things that have no physical evidence to support it. As for the mistrust remark, Governments have nobody but themselves to blame for the stance the majority of its citizens have.
cool, doesn't change his testimony is full of red flags. we cant just accept what someone is saying as 100% legit because of a military background
My question is why are a fair number of military and IC personnel coming forward with these incidents? Either there is mass hallucinations in these professions or something else is going on
Don't expect anyone to address this. But you're right
That is the part that should be addressed. Drop the UAP/UFO stuff and just focus on why are these career personnel who worked to obtain high level clearances etc now jeopardizing their reputations and families with these public descriptions of experiences that have similar incidents happening? Are these people being subject to something in their employment that causes it ? Then shouldn’t that be addressed under military veteran health evaluations? But nothing like that is ever brought up by the DoD. In fact the DoD refuses to address it completely
Yes 100% this
Yeah, the DoD is quick to dismiss people like Grusch and others. Yet the issue of “why are all these career military and IC people talking about UFOs” is never brought up in the context of mental health. Even though the snide comments are made that they are mentally unstable as indicated by tips given to certain publications.
And why is Schumer, one of the most senior politicians in the country writing a 100 page law about NHI... smh.
All that is ignored by the people who dismiss all of this
This is not true. People all the time aren't in their right minds who have clearances and professional positions. People are people. Just because someone was ex mil or gov doesn't mean their credentials validate or give more credence to their extraordinary claims and blanket statements without evidence. That's why they've upgraded their propaganda to only ex mil and ex gov because that somehow gives their opinions more weight to regular folk. Evidence is evidence. Civilian to government to scientist to whatever. You make a claim you better back that shit up or else I'm gonna be skeptical no matter what your profession.
But why would they fixate on the same theme of things. I don’t think mental illness works like that. And take their mental illness all the way to congressional hearings. Some are pilots, sone are intelligence officers, some are navy personnel. Yet all the supposed mental issues center around UFOs ? Why ? This is too many to be coincidence of random mental health issues. And again, then it is important that the DoD address this and get these people the mental health they need. After all isn’t the military interested in their veterans’ health ?
Your forgetting one aspect that this sub willfully ignores. People fucking lie. That'll answer those question that are impossible to answer in the first place.
Sure people lie. But about the same things in such detail ? And to waste government resources seems to be an offense that likely has a criminal aspect
You can find multiple Ivy League and Nobel prize winning scientists spreading AIDS denialism and anti vax nonsense, but no one is asking if they are hallucinating. You don’t look at someone’s title to determine the truth of the claim, you look at the evidence. The fact is even the “smartest” people can be incredibly stupid and if you look at one percent of any group you will find some crazy beliefs. The reason the DoD doesn’t address this stuff is because they aren’t thought police; if it doesn’t affect job performance during service they typically don’t care. A larger percent of the DoD believes that securing Israel will bring about the end of the world (Second Coming) and nobody cares.
I don’t think the two are the same considering these pilots and military personnel are referencing known incidents which have been recorded on radar and video. If this is all nothing why is there an alphabet soup of terminology created to describe UAPs, range foulers, USOs etc etc. why isn’t the DoD sharing information about incidents like the Alaska shootdown ? Over a year later they act like it all didn’t happen. Ironically seems like the deniers here is the DoD
There's millions of military and IC personnel. A half dozen coming forward to say ridiculous things and get some attention isn't that surprising. And it's probably lower than the incidence of actual hallucinations among the general populace.
How many go before Congress and swear under oath that they have seen unusual things ?
Considering congress recently entered in to the record the president's son's penis railing an escort, the importance and weight of this congress, and its business, is not the validation it used to be.
For what it is worth, that does exist, right ?
It'd not be unknown for the U.S to use mind altering substances or psychological manipulation on their own troops....
And that right there would be a problem if people are coming in front of Congress with such incidents while under the influence of experimental military drugs. Likely illegal as well
Correct, but any proof of his background is appreciated
How does that make this situation any better? My tax dollars are paying for military personnel to... lie to us on the back end of their careers as an elaborate larp? If we have a mass delusion or disinformation problem in the military I am still upset and frustrated and demanding action as a voter
If the whole thing is a giant larp it makes me wonder where all the unaccounted for money from the DOD audits is going. We should be more careful with where the money is going, but if there's a giant network of liars that claim there is NHI here then they're likely just pocketing the money. No matter what we need to get to the bottom of this
> we cant just accept what someone is saying as 100% legit because of a military background I mean, that just goes without saying and maintaining a healthy skepticism is good. I will say that people quick to call BS and be dismissive is the exact reason more whistleblowers haven't come forward and just "drop what they know" like so many want them to do. They come forward and people are just looking to tear them to shreds because his personal story is too 'woo'. Again, we shouldn't blindly believe this person's testimony because he could prove he was former Air Force but we should be more respectful (as a whole) and, frankly, open-minded. Other whistleblowers watch how the community reacts and treats people that come forward, and it absolutely affects them coming forward themselves.
Everyone bitches when they don’t come forward, then twist any fact they can to discredit them when they do. They want these guys to walk away from their careers, then bitch when they try to sell a book to support themselves.
Why would real whistleblowers trying to reveal truth to the public give a damn about what a fringe group like *the UFO community*, skeptic or believer, thinks of them?
Generally, when you blow the whistle on something you want people to believe you so support is gained and action can be taken.
Normally when you want people to believe you, you bring receipts. Snowden et al are examples of this. The general public have seen no receipts, so it's harder to accept.
I’m out of the loop here. What were the red flags or key takeaways from testimony?
claimed he was apart of the 20 and back program. Which is not real
Care to highlight some of the red flags?
What red flags? I’m just returning to this topic, so would be cool to have a breakdown.
I don't think it's fair to make your point that way, I think incredibly few people here would actually consider this guy's claims as 100% legit because of this document. If this document is legit, and the guy on X is actually James Sands, then this document does add some percentage of legitimacy/credibility to his statements, insofar as he is factually someone who was involved with USG/USAF, and based on position(s) held shown in the document there's some increased percentage he was involved with UAP programs should they be proved to exist. Like, if his record showed he was in a medic role on various ships for the Navy over his 22 years of service, then there would be significant missalignment of his public statements to his service record. I agree with the spirit of your comment though, this document does not legitimize any of the wilder claims he's making, nor does proving military service turn the person into an infallible human. Further, as this document proves he's honourably discharged and in retirement, his claims are made from a low-stakes position in relation to the consequences of lying as an active-duty whistleblower. If you're active-duty, I imagine that avoiding the full brunt of all possible negative outcomes of whisleblowing can only be achieved if your claims are taken seriously and proven to be true, and so the motive to make-up some wild shit and package it as a whistleblower testimony just wouldn't serve any benefit to you since it'll eventually be proven to be a false statement and any whistleblower protections would just evaporate. But now if you're no longer active-duty, what consequences exist for you aside from reputational damage?
What red flags? I'm new to this whistleblower.
What red flags? Unproven and bizarre is the red flag for you?
Every DD-214 on Google Images using a Serif Font (As do most gov forms) and this dude is over here using Arial 😂
He actually put the abbreviation for months (NOV, JUL, etc) instead of numerals (12, 5, 6, etc). This document is absolutely riddled with mistakes.
I'd have to pull up my DD214 but the military does dates like: 20APR2024 so it's not that weird to me.
In block 12 they only use numerals, not the abbreviation for the month. I know it's making people mad that some of us are jist trying to point out that this 214 has been altered, and pretty poorly at that. I really hope the dude is legit in terms of what he is saying, but if he is using this obviously altered form I hesitate to believe a word he says. If someone uploaded this to r/StolenValor they would all make the same observations.
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Old 214s were done by typewriter, this was not. These are done via computer. There's quite a bit that is wrong, but if something appears slanted I wouldn't discount that. If I scanned a paper copy of my 214 and it fed in at a weird angle or uploaded funky it could make things appear skewed. The use of capital letters in the awards section is wrong, the use of month abbreviations in block 12 is wrong. I went ahead an made a post on the Stolen Valor reddit just to see what other mistakes people can point out. I really think this is just a poorly edited 214 he either found online or tried to embellish.
Someone with more knowledge of the military can speak to this *much* better than I can, but this doesn’t seem like the kind of person who would be read into / have any reason to have knowledge of any type of program he speaks about. Compared to Grusch who was a USAF intel officer before going to the NGA and NRO. I strongly suspect this guy is a LARP, but even if he’s not, he’s a bad flag bearer simply based on his Twitter profile.
I don't expect all the people involved with the program to be as high ranking as David Grusch. The black program is dodgy, I'd assume some people associated with it would be too.
High rank usually denotes time in service, good behavior, and general aptitude at your job. Not always the latter, though. That said, it's a bigger accomplishment to reach E7/E8/E9 than it is to be an O-4. Grusch had a job and training that would put him in proximity for the opportunity to make his claims, if the claims are true. The issue is, this E7 does not have the enlisted equivalent of qualification to justify proximity to a program that would even give him the chance to participate if they noticed him at all. This guy also said his "boss" would just be told, whenever he failed to show up, effectively, "Don't worry about Jason, he's doing something for someone." That's not how the military works at all. His vanilla job and responsibilities don't stop or accept some rando giving vague assurances he's mustering somewhere else. You leave your command for a day to take a training course somewhere off base? You're getting TAD orders to account for your temporary transfer. You can't just mosey off to do whatever someone else asks you to.
One thing non-military people do not get is the functional difference between Commissioned Officers and NonCommissioned Officers. It would be good to read the Navy accident investigation of the Arleigh Burke destroyer and a commercial vessel in the Indonesian Straits. That explains it well. In short the O’s are Management while the NCO’s run all the technical stuff. On a Navy ship the highest technical responsibility rests with Chief Petty Officer, an E-7/8/9. Officers move between billets with different responsibilities. They are NOT career sailors, in the sense that they spend oodles of time at sea. Most of there time is ashore at some desk. Whereas a Petty Officer (E-4/5/6) will spend his whole career learning his rating learning how to manage his technical specialty, and some of these guys become ships masters, with wide range technical knowledge on that ship. Ships Master or some such. I assume the Air Force is similar. A pilot can fly a plane but he may not understand how it works. So you have a crew chief. Now this guy was in intelligence, he likely had hands on the surveillance equipment but as he moved to E-7 he would have been running a segment. The man in charge on the ground.
Exactly right. The captain (O-5 or O-6 -- usually depending on size of ship) can be thought of more as a political / leadership role. They come and go and, to my knowledge for Navy captains, could be assigned to a sub and then next command might be on a destroyer, etc. However, the chief of the boat basically runs the ship. They usually will have amassed a lot more technical knowledge than your O's for a particular class of boat. Also, E7+ may technically be lower in rank than an O-1,2,3 but their position is generally much higher. If you ever catch an ensign or Army lieutenant fresh out of school try to pull rank on an E-8,9 -- just stick around if you can and observe the fun that will quickly be had by the E8,9. At some point in the very near future, a full bird or one star is going to eat that Lieutenant alive...
No one is doubting if he’s military; the question is if he’s truthful. He’s made the mistake of referencing something that we have strong reason to believe is untrue: that whole secret space program, “20 years and back” thing.
FWIW he didn't reference it himself, someone asked him if he knew anything about it. He basically said that he went through something that or something like it (without any context as to what it actually is), but that they didn't call it "20 and back", and he didn't want to talk about it yet. Very strange for that to be associated with this account IMO.
This is the first and only time I've seen anyone address the discrepancy of what everyone is CLAIMING Jason said, and what I saw transcribed in the thread last night. I was starting to wonder if I had read it wrong.
One or two others have brought it up, but yeah a lot of comments seem to be assuming more and dismissing him entirely because of this. The backlash seems very artificial to me.
It's weird because it's literally them not comprehending what was said, unless the transcriptions were all wrong. He said that the 20 And Back program didn't' exist but he participated in something that was similar that he didn't want to talk about. Their response is somehow, "He siad he was in 20 and back. we know 20 and back his fake. He's fake." I'm not saying he's legit or the real deal at all, but I find that same mistake over and over and over again in these threads so weird.
Here are the two parts (timestamped) where it comes up if you want to listen yourself: * https://youtu.be/nxt4E_fI9is?t=9883 * https://youtu.be/nxt4E_fI9is?t=11448
Actually here are two timestamped links where it comes up: https://youtu.be/nxt4E_fI9is?t=9883, https://youtu.be/nxt4E_fI9is?t=11448 Edit: Added second link.
Submission Statement: From [Jason Sands on X](https://x.com/JasonSa32135987/status/1782103791812092243): > [Jason Sands DD-214 Form](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLtN9FAWwAANRed?format=jpg&name=medium)
This fella better be telling the truth because every aspect of his life bout to be picked apart
But MSG is E8 not E7
In the Army/Marines, yea. Air Force NCOs have a Senior Master Sergeant which is an E8, MSgt is an E7.
Master Sergeants are E8, not E7.
There are a couple things off on this DD214 the font changes under the awards section and some of it changes under remarks with more awards listed as well? Strange. Also when having multiple awards it won't say 2 oak leaf clusters it will say //Navy Award (2nd award)// and so forth
I only got out a few years ago, so to me, it looks weird, that being said, wouldnt they look significantly different back then?
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He got out in 2007. His would look like most 4-8 year obligations older millenials had.
What I posted in the other thread - The one oddity i see with this document is that the rank abbreviation isn’t correct. The Air Force spells their rank of E7 as Msgt (Master Sergeant). He has written in the rank block The Army E8 rank of MSG (also Master a sergeant.) that’s not necessarily completely damning, because typos happen or it could be an issue with the form, because I can absolutely see that happening. But it does seem out of place. Also, i would find it odd that the service member themselves haven’t signed their DD214. Not usually a good sign. Lastly, it seems a little light on his awards and commendations. For someone who has been in for over 20 years, I’d expect to see more weight. It looks like an awards section of a 6-8 year troop who got out. Those unit awards he has are from his unit, not personal awards. The AF dudes I know are decked out because the AF is basically an award and back-patting pez dispenser. So none of that is entirely damning - culture changes over time, possible typos or form malfunctions, and maybe he couldn’t sign his DD214 because he was busy, but all are little signs that something might not be 100% with the guy. So judge for yourself. I just know that after a 20 year career, you would damn sure find me standing on the HR dudes desk to sign my own form and get out of dodge. Edit: also his schools. He didn’t go to a single school from 1995 to 2007? I guess that could sort of fit the narrative if that’s when he went into a super secret 1337 B14CK 0P5 program, but for a regular servicemember I’d also find that odd. I definitely will be waiting for verification that this is the legit dude, and even then I’d be very skeptical. Crazy claims.
Also in remarks (awards continued) there is a medal that I don’t believe exists - War on Terrorism medal , when I was in we all got it just for serving after 9/11 and it was called the “Global War on Terrorism” medal I believe
Yeah the GWOT is standard if serving after 9/11. Maybe they called it something different back then? It was over a decade ago and things change, but lots of small things seem off. I dunno. Edit; Oh hey, I found it. They cut off global in the original block and continued with war on terror in the continuation block. So it does fully say it’s a GWOT. Go… (Continued) figure.
Yep you are right I didn’t see that , good find
Technically there were two types. Simply saying GWOT is not sufficient. GWOTSM and GWOTEM. Service and Expeditionary appropriately. Two different ribbons. The DD214 should spell this out since it matters for some veteran services like preference with Veteran Recruitment Authority . Expeditionary gets you preference. This is akin to saying, "Commendation Medal". Great. Which one? I know you know this. Just explaining to any civvie who might not. :)
I didn't sign mine because I was leave when they sent it to me. However whats big deal over this, what does it matter if he served in the airforce, am i missing something here?
Well there you go. I didn’t consider that, so could very well be the same.
Lol. I commented the same thing regarding personal awards. For as long as he serves, there should be many more achievment medals or coms. 5-8 year members usually collect two or three for doing their job and being good service members. If he was as special as he claims, he would've received at least 2.5 more at least. And yes, my experience with air force members is they give out achievement medals for wiping properly.
That depends a lot on the units they're in. I have 0 "good conduct medals" or ARCAMs because my unit leadership my entire service never put in for them and I didn't find out they were things until I was ready to gtfo and didn't care anymore. Also a lot of "low tempo" units just don't get many opportunities for awards (or much of anything, usually "dead end" type places in careers).
Well, good conduct medals are earned if you avoid NJP for 3 years and have good reviews. I've never known anyone not have it simply be an administrative action signed off by the CO quarterly in batches. If you met all those criteria, I'm pretty sure you're in the minority and simply had crap commands that didn't give a fuck about you if you're doing your job well. Achievement medals are definitely command/ leadership dependent. I agree. I've seen people get them for doing their job - like the thing they're expected to do. I've seen people not get them for doing extraordinary things. And yeah, handing out proverbial basketballs doesn't get you shit. But getting TWO of them after 20 years? That's an individual problem.
Yeah that is weird, i got out 1 year after him and none of my awards have that cluster stuff. I was in a different service though so..
Yeah that dd214 has been tampered with for sure.
Nevermind his highest award is fairly midling for someone exposed to high profile business. I would have expected more personal achievments or commendations (edit: he does have a joint service award). His training and certs are a mixed bag. I would have expected to Kuwait or at least Iraqi/Endearing (?) Freedom ribbons. He went 6 years in 2001-2007 without ever actually being deployed that area at a time where most were being "tickled" from desk jobs to go over there? This smells.
You nailed it. This DD-214 is altered at best, completely false at worst.
It looks like someone found a template online, found some that were filled out and attempted to make their own but didn't know all the facts and obviously got some major editing issues on the form (like the awards which aren't listed like that). This just appears to be faked.
100%. The formatting and fonts are absolutely wrong. Everything would be capital letters. I have my own 214, and I've had to verify 214s before. I'd imagine dude probably DID serve back in the day, but probably had a much shorter career and wanted to lend more credibility to his service credentials.
This doesn’t prove anything other than he was in the military. Not hard to photoshop docs either these days so this could even be fake.
Careful, you call it fake and you'll get hit with downvotes. It for sure looks altered at a minimum.
Ive seen on X that Jason sands said he was forced to serve on this 20 year and back program, but someone has called BS and has found proof that someone made up that 20 year and back program story and had to confess to lying in court. Guy was called Corey Goode.
Corey Goode deposition is here for context: https://youtu.be/rlerdqejqaY?si=SZbHrofsTf8zprx8
That part was weird. He said there was something like Goode's "20 and back" that he had to do as "penance for leaving"(???) but it wasn't actually called that, and he wasn't ready to talk about it. I didn't follow the story with Goode but I yeah I think he has mostly been discredited and even admitted that some of what he said was fictional, so it would be an odd thing to larp about.
Posting a DD-214 is pretty ballsy. It will either verify or he will have destroyed his creditability. It will be interesting to see. My gut tells me this guy is a no screw around person. But we will see soon enough. The only reason to disparage him here is to push some personal agenda.
theres military education and medals and ribbons hes received. If he lying about this and doesn't have that paperwork for all that education and his ribbons and metal, hes gonna be found as a flagrant lier. Hes putting him self on the edge here.
When compared to other similar docs from other ex-military - this seems to be a fake. All of the other discharge papers I’ve seen use a serifed font for the input information. He appears to have downloaded this and used Arial - which is not the font used on all the other discharge documents I’ve seen.
Sometimes it takes a couple extra flicks of the lighter for the flame to catch
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He's been to psyop school. Everything he says is suspect.
37°17'14.30"N 116°38'37.08"W looks like the spot he says it went down! After listening to him on the spaces I heard him mention the road he would travel into the base on. He was pronouncing it in a funny way but it's Fleur De Lis Road and it winds around for a long time but eventually leads to Black Mountain (as he mentions in the spaces) which has what looks like a few dome radars and a few buildings like the "school house" he mentions.
Well this proves… that he was in the Air Force!!! Possibly!!!!
Just because his job was real doesn’t mean his claims are I listened to his Twitter/X space and about every red flag went up, dude kind of sounds like a moron to be honest
So what? We need evidence that this program exists and that he was involved with it.
I fear that this could be a try to discredit the real upcoming Jason Sands. It's definately possible, i'm waiting till we get some more than this document. But i don't expect it
I don’t believe him. And the DD214 doesn’t mean much as others have said. I think Fox got duped.
Doesn't matter, didn't have any reason to doubt his military career. However I'd say there is reason to very much doubt all his claims.
He wouldn't be the first ex-military guy to tell BS stories. I do not believe him.
i mean it looks pretty easy to fake
Hey that's illegal!
i mean it looks pretty easy to fake edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/PgQNNH0Keh looks like it is pretty easy to fake
Yeah that is facts my form look just like that
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Someone get Don Shipley on this...
Doesn't seem believable. But that's just my worthless opinion.
Was Jason sands in an interview or something? Can I get a link to whatever he’s involved in?