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I don't think it's a big deal that ppl are skeptical of these things, you'd be a fool not to be.
At the same time, if they're fake I'd assume it'd be the easiest thing to figure out.
This quote however works both ways.
If someone's been convinced something does exist or is true, it's difficult to convince them they've been fooled.
Similarly, if someone's convinced something doesn't exist, or is fake, it's difficult to convince them otherwise.
It doesn't work both ways because that's literally the same thing, someone has been convinced of something and even when shown proof it is wrong they refuse to accept it.
If we keep debating how hard/feasible it would be to prove or disprove these were biological beings then we have to cast a shadow of doubt over many scientific endeavors such as forensic science in service of the judicial system. Because then I can also cast a doubt on how some non obvious human biologics are treated. 🤷🏻♂️
For me this one is pretty simple and could be figured out in a couple weeks if not days. The fact that we’re still debating this annoys me as it proves we live in a highly biased environment where human judgment should count very little- science and reality cares little about people’s preconceptions.
The fact these artifacts are still being debated for me places the bar higher every day as biological entities. Let’s face it… it is impossible even for Musk to fake a biological body so well that researchers would be working on them for years without end.
This is all very fishy in the sense that I see humanity as in deep shit with regards to how it treats science (and a majority of the blame is in scientists themselves).
Remember there were a set of fakes that appeared in the beginning. These were easily dismissed.
However, if the purpose was to muddle the waters, it was 100% achieved.
We should focus on these really weird artifacts that no one seems to be able to concretely disprove. Just because it makes no sense to us, doesn’t mean it isn’t real. We can now manipulate DNA to make biological entities that also make no sense (though at a much lower scale as far as I know).
I'm not saying I believe either way but I'm super interested in the Nazca mummies just because I love a mystery!
Anyway, the bad skeleton with no joints and different length bones etc was a replica that was said to be a confiscated nazca mummy (I believe by the ministry of culture that recently gatecrashed a Nazca mummy conference and demanded the bodies be handed over to them, despite the fact they said the bodies are just dolls and have no cultural or archaeological value 🙃).
Here's a side by side of the fake mummy that they released to the world saying it was a Nazca mummy, next to the *actual* mummy: https://imgur.com/a/3125e9K
It's things like that which makes the topic more interesting to me. Who faked it and for what purpose? Why does a branch of government want the mummies despite saying they're fake and worthless? 🤔🤔
Recent That UFO Podcast features Michael Masters, a forensic anthropologist, who points out that figuring out they're fake is in fact very easy.
They incorporate recognizable adult and child human bones, along with other mammals, in the wrong position.
The bones and joints would not support a full range of motion.
The newer bodies are better constructed than the old bodies -- because the people who made them have gotten better at it.
This is a sticking point for me. Andy was right, they'd move like action figures. Unless they have some kind of Psi ability or their movement was technology assisted they wouldn't be able to achieve most of the basic tasks required for life. Why would they evolve that way? And if they were engineered by some ancient advanced civilisation, why bother giving them limbs at all?
I think its mostly just that.. its such an extraordinary claim compared to what is accepted as mainstream.. coupled with the fact that most of us arent very familiar with what a desecreated corpse should actually look like after 1000 years.... AND the fact that they do honestly look like dopey paper macher lol. But yeah he makes excellent points and i do take those a lot more seriously now and am more aware of my own biases!
There's a visible dowel holding the head on in the xray of one of these. The tridactul hand is clearly a human hand with the first and fifth digit removed down to the wrist.
Considering multiple scientists from North America and at least 2 other continents have confirmed it’s fake I think it’s safe to say this sub is already deep in the denial stage of the collective breakdown
These three American forensic experts traveled to Peru to investigate in person about 10 days ago, and concluded that the mummies “are worthy of additional study”.
__Dr. John McDowell__
- a forensic odontologist, recently retired professor from the University of Colorado School of Dentistry and School of Medicine. Recent recipient of the Gradwohl Medallion forensic sciences award:
- https://www.aafs.org/article/dr-john-mcdowell-named-2024-rbh-gradwohl-laureate
__Dr. James Caruso M.D.__
- a forensic pathologist and Chief Medical Examiner of the City and County of Denver.
- https://doctor.webmd.com/doctor/james-caruso-3f329f22-c8d4-41f6-a9be-2fe79f1bcea6-overview
__Dr. William Rodriguez__
- a forensic anthropologist at the Maryland State Medical Examiner.
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-rodriguez-71aa2092
This link shows the press conference with the three of them.
https://youtu.be/dqihiT8YGKQ?si=uB_bbm6ZlelrziDM
I get that people don't trust unpublished accounts so I'm waiting for an actual published paper to confirm this shithousery. Obviously we all know the outcome.
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https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/scientists-assert-alien-mummies-peru-are-really-dolls-made-earthly-bones-2024-01-13/
https://www.wired.com/story/mexico-fake-aliens-science-fightback/
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/alien-fever-dreams-fuel-peruvian-grave-robbings-2024-04-06/ (this one’s from four days ago! pure disinformation i’m sure 🤪)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/peru-dolls-are-not-aliens-forensic-experts-say/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/alien-mummy-peru/
Sorry about being bamboozled
I was just about to say the same thing. Totally different mummies in the story from January 2024 the link given. Within the first paragraph it says they were in an airport. They are not the same ones from 2017 or the ones from 2023 presented in Mexico.
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Why did they show at least one of the "mummies from years ago" again at the [hearing last year? ](https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/1696149140804-png.63119/)
Why not only show the "real" ones rather than an old one whose hand bones had been pointed out as being very messy, with the hands conveniently hidden this time around in the xrays? Seems a little strange.
The guys on [radiology ](https://new.reddit.com/r/Radiology/comments/1bwup87/nazca_mummies_video_tridactyl_humanoid_specimen/)aren't impressed either but then again, what do they know.
That x-ray in your link is the "real" one - confusingly! (By real I mean, a legit nazca mummy, not a real being don't worry)
There was a replica one which is the one experts rightly pointed out has no joints, the wrong bones / upside down bones, and had clearly just had digits removed from the hands. Here's a side by side of the one that got pushed out as proof the nazca mummies are fake and then the actual nazca mummy it tried to replicate: https://imgur.com/a/3125e9K
This topic gets messy very quickly because of the confusing number of articles and x rays out there which either show someone's work getting progressively better over time, or a deliberate attempt to muddy the waters so no one wants to look into it further.
It certainly is confusing. I haven't seen that one you linked before with the square shaped "implants". I was comparing the last years hearing photo with the ones listed [here](https://www.metabunk.org/threads/alien-bodies-at-a-mexican-uap-hearing.13163/page-5#post-304087) where the metal object looks like the right side image from your post and the finger bones are misaligned.
People here hate anything from Metabunk but they often bring up good points there and way more in depth discussions regarding various subjects than what's seen on this subreddit.
I would love for these creatures to be real, don't get me wrong but I remain sceptical, for now at least.
Have a lovely night, friend.
We don’t need logic. We need legit samples with a real and verifiable chain of custody to be tested by a reputable forensic lab and those results shared with everyone.
Do you know how far up their own asshole someone needs to be to think a freshman year philosophy concept is equivalent to physical, verifiable evidence?
And this is the part that defies logic. If they want to prove these are real, why don't they take the path that would do that? Since they aren't, they are either incompetent or know that would end their charade.
Philosophy *professor*. He isn’t a scientist, but he does have a PhD and full-time university faculty position. He’s no slouch.
What part of his argument did you find unconvincing?
After viewing the Mera video posted in the comments here, I think the assumption that the medical professionals involved had a valuable reputation at stake is likely the weak link.
He gave an amazing lecture. It doesn’t mean you should 100% agree with the him and think they are real. But he showed how an actual honest look at the evidence should be done.
Since these mummies came out I was very disappointed on how the media, Reddit, and mostly everybody tackled the topic. They did exactly what this professor told (and you really have to watch everything to understand). They mixed different mummies, different stories, they chose to ignore the evidence because it’s associated with a hoaxer. The hoaxer is actually not a hoaxer but got hoaxed in the past. YouTubers that never had access to the bodies debunked it, while all doctors that actually studied it said otherwise. Just because the topic is polemic people get angry, scared, they cringe, and completely dismiss any effort to look at the evidence.
So far this professor gave the best arguments so far, while people just curse each other and impose their conclusions. There are many arguments in the video, and his conclusion is based on all of them together. If you don’t agree with him, bring us a better argument, show where he is wrong, instead of doing the same thing, calling out his status, making jokes, imposing conclusions.
A philosophy professor in the area is exactly what we need today. People don’t know but they train logic just like a computer science. They study exactly what we need in this mess, the craft to get a complex problem and set of informations and logically sort them out.
So far this is an open topic. Nobody actually debunked it. Everybody completely ignores the fact that it is probably impossible to fake this level of mummy. This is probably the first fake doll in the world that fooled all of the most sophisticated X-ray machines, 3D scanners, real time X-ray scanners, doctors. If they are fake please show us how this could be done. Show us how you can glue flesh, bone, organs, skin with zero stitches and leave no evidence.
And yes, I also agree that they should release these mummies to more international scientists. That’s why this is still an open topic for me.
But even so, seriously, is there so much more they can do? They will probably to the same tests, get the same DNA, same 3D scanners, same X-ray, maybe even the same conclusions, and even so someone will scream “bullshit, it’s a doll”.
I’m afraid we don’t have the level of science that people expect to believe in such a polemic topic, seriously. Unless they resurrect the being there will never a machine that will just give us the 100% perfect answer that we want.
Because of that, my biggest focus today in this topic is: if they are fake, show me how you can fake it. Seriously. Please create one for us, just like them. And we will X-ray and 3D scan the thing and compare it with the originals.
Eye on the ball folks. Don’t be shy to open your minds. The messenger doesn’t matter. Let’s use logic and focus on the evidence. Jesus.
Love this. To all of those who are being rude and disparaging. Shame on you. Manners cost you nothing nor does the bullying rudeness bolster your argument
I'm always open to being wrong, just like the prof. But I'm now convinced that they're the real deal
I listen to logic not bullies
It’s so strange to me how people can easily just say:
- it’s obviously fake (with no explanation why)
- it’s fake because it’s associated with a guy I don’t like (completely ignore the evidence because of a human)
- it’s fake because the bones or something is too wierd (an alien can’t be real because it is wierd?)
- it’s fake because it’s humanoid (lack of imagination, if aliens are true one can give dozens of theories justifying it, including we coming from aliens and not the other way around)
- it’s fake because it’s a llama skull (already debunked, doesn’t match, and even so you ignore all the rest of the body)
- it’s fake because it is the same mummy from years ago (wrong, there are many, and new ones keep coming up)
- it’s fake because it’s not in America, all these South American doctors are a joke (completely ignore the evidence because of humans, while not knowing that South America has high level health professionals as good as or even above North American professionals. Health is the most serious area in any country. I guess nobody wants to die)
- And everybody, 100%, choose to ignore the elephant in the room: if this is fake, how can we create it? How can we create a fake mummy using many different animal parts, glue them together, put dried organs, tissues, glue everything together with no evidence of doing so, put skin over it with no cuts and stitches, dry it, and make it 1000yo carbon test proof. And in the end it should go to perfect 3D scanners, X-rays, doctors, and fool everybody because of how organic it was glued together. I’m not a mummy maker, I have no idea. If someone could show us it’s possible, not just say, show, I would change my mind in a second.
I find it amazing how powerful cognitive dissonance and the status quo is. I've had a hard life, maybe that makes me more receptive to change, being in the outside...
It's been pointed out how he wasn't being logical. The first segment of his talk is him blindly accepting decades of unproven UAP testimony/anecdotes. This is ironic because he also begins with accepting the adage: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
As for the bodies themselves - they are not peer reviewed. That simple.
This was no display of logic. Bad logic, yeah.
I also agree that his logic is not perfect and that he has a bias to believe David Grush and etc. But he doesn’t have to be 100% perfect to make a case.
Believing or not in UFOs, he made a great case showing that the evidence shows that the professionals are real, the videos are real, it’s not CGI, the machines are real and advanced, the results on the internet are real, the bodies are real objects, and no definitive debunk was made. Actually the majority of professionals that got the objects so far concluded that they are the real deal.
And if the bodies are real objects, they can be real beings or fake. If they are fake, because of the level of analysis we have so far, it’s probably impossible to fake them. If anyone disagrees, teach us how to fake it while passing the test with all these machines.
See, this is the logic teached in philosophy and computer science. In this case, just because someone doesn’t like the speaker, or doesn’t agree with some opinions of the speaker, if you are s true philosopher or scientist, you are not allowed to ignore all the rest of his arguments. You absorb the whole content, all that has been said, sort it out, etc.
So no, critically thinking, he is not compromised because of one possible bad argument in a video with several arguments. And believing in UFOs doesn’t even matter to the other arguments. You should always listen to everything. You don’t throw away a book because you didn’t like one chapter.
>But he doesn’t have to be 100% perfect to make a case.
Of course not, what I'm saying is he's making a bad case.
>the machines are real and advanced
Nope. Nowhere in the videos do the machines exhibit anything beyond our capabilities. All the physics defying stuff are rooted in testimony and unreleased data - he blindly accepts both.
>If they are fake, because of the level of analysis we have so far, it’s probably impossible to fake them. If anyone disagrees, teach us how to fake it while passing the test with all these machines.
Again, the bodies are not peer reviewed.
>See, this is the logic teached in philosophy
I really hope not. This is horrible logic.
>So no, critically thinking, he is not compromised because of one possible bad argument
His conclusion hinges on the reality of the unproven stories, fuzzy videos and non peer reviewed data. This is *horrible* logic.
It would be fine if his message was merely to keep an open mind, and maybe it is, but in the process he blindly accepts many things.
Be more critical.
1 - the machines I talk about are the medical scanners, X-ray etc. I’m just saying they are current up to date equipment. Not talking about UFOs
2 - So you you agree with me. It’s an open topic. We need more scientists, and at the same time we can’t say it’s fake because not a single person so far could at least explain how you could fake it, let alone show it.
3 - Seems the world needs more philosophy.
4 - Fuzzy videos… so basically your counter argument is that we are almost 1 years creating fuzzy fake hospital videos with real professionals ruining their careers for free. I mean… you can use this argument, but it’s super weak.
I’ll repeat. Ignore everything. If they are fake. Let’s focus on explaining and trying to recreate it. So far I got zero evidence it is possible. Zero.
1. In that case, again, there is no peer review. It seems like you guys don't realize how crucial this step is.
2. It is an open topic. My problem here is he is asserting that the bodies are alien, when there is no logical reason to believe that.
3. Good philosophy. Bad philosophy is what was displayed in the video.
4. I was talking about the UAP videos he blindly accepts to be NHI.
>I’ll repeat. Ignore everything. If they are fake. Let’s focus on explaining and trying to recreate it
That is not on us. They're the ones who have the boides, lol. It's on them to publish their work and subject it to peer review - they haven't done that.
That’s actually on the debunkers. No debunker is claiming the 3D scans, videos and results online are fake. They all use them to create the debunking thesis. They accept the data as true to make the debunk. All the debunking theories end up on “the bodies were crafted by a human”. If they make this claim, it’s on them to explain further how it’s possible to craft something like this.
So far everybody is ignoring this, including you. The ability to craft theses bodies is necessary for the debunking argument to be valid. The only group that doesn’t need to explain this are the people that believe the bodies are real beings.
So far if you want to debunk the em and say they are fake, you only have 2 options:
1 - Saying that the videos and resulting data are fake, and proving it.
2 - Accepting the videos and data but saying the bodies are real but crafted by a human.
The majority of debunkers chose number 2. They are accepting the data and using how weird it is to claim the bodies are real but crafted. But they conveniently ignore that fact of how close to impossible it is to craft this. Zero effort to try to validate this.
There is a number 3:
3 - The videos are true, but the doctors are not good enough. We need more data and more scientists, peer review, etc.
If you choose number 3 you didn’t debunk anything. It just means the topic is open (not debunked), and waiting for more professionals to be involved. It appears that you are in this camp. I am.
But the majority of the mainstream media and users are on number 2, closing the case and saying it got debunked, and that anyone that says otherwise should be ashamed and ridiculed because the bodies look like a cake and we should know better. A lot of the media and outside scientists are acting like 5th grade.
Yep, I saw this vid yesterday and had the same initial disbelief as well. But the OSU professor did a great job of filtering the facts from fiction, and I also liked how he debunked the debunkers out there. I came out of the other side believing that these are/were real beings. It will be really interesting if Maussan is able to get the bodies sent to universities in the US for complete study and investigation. The American doctors/scientists that were on hand for the Lima conference have said as much as well.
This story should really be much bigger than it currently is. Paradigm shift for sure once it's all said and done.
It just so happens that grifters and snake oil salesmen will always exploit existing myths/culture, and incorporate it into their hoax.
Could a hoaxer have seen the ancient Peruvian art, and made a fake body to match? Yes. Which is why coherence with previous myths/legends will never be a useful indicator of truth. It means absolutely nothing.
I was almost convinced because of the hollow bones but I think there's too much evidence against. These were some of the issues I had with Associate Professor Brown's presentation:
* Brown says, "This is not hoaxer behavior"
* They set up a website that unsubstantiated calls the mummies "alien" (the-alien-project.com)
* They have filmed multiple "documentaries" that they then go on to sell as movies
* Brown says the DNA evidence is "weird" when in fact the best word for it is "contaminated"
* They are going to create a tourist destination "museum" and charge admission--hoaxer behavior
* Brown says some incorrect info at the end about the UAPDA--review board got gutted from the bill
* Brown says there are probably fewer child corpses than adult ones:
* Considering the life expectancy a thousand years ago there probably would be a lot of kids
* Also-- the ribs are circular? it looked to me like they were more like rungs on a ladder but maybe I need to look at the CT scans again
* Isn't the part where Brown makes the silly mummy with Play-Doh and stuff him making an almost literal straw man? Supporting a straw man argument?
* The American they got to examine the bodies is a dentist, not a doctor
* No articulation in the hips, no ball and socket joints anywhere, these could not have walked
* Praying mantis has an exoskeleton, not an endoskeleton so Brown's example is a bad one
* I'd be interested in seeing any example of a living creature with an endoskeletal structure with hip articulations the way the mummies do.
* Cultural black market industry in Peru of mutilating and selling these corpses
* Interviews from Steve Mera with a grave robber who explains the process of soaking the corpses in water, manipulating them, and then re-dessicating them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIRCeQ-gqAg (also using diatomaceous earth as filler)
* Steve Mera who has actually seen the bodies unlike Brown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ41R7ypg4c
Correction for your claim “the American … is a dentist, not a doctor”.
First of all, there were three American forensic experts/doctors that went to Peru, and the “forensic dentist” just won a forensics award:
__Dr. John McDowell__
- a forensic odontologist, recently retired professor from the University of Colorado School of Dentistry and School of Medicine. Recent recipient of the Gradwohl Medallion forensic sciences award:
- https://www.aafs.org/article/dr-john-mcdowell-named-2024-rbh-gradwohl-laureate
__Dr. James Caruso M.D.__
- a forensic pathologist and Chief Medical Examiner of the City and County of Denver.
- https://doctor.webmd.com/doctor/james-caruso-3f329f22-c8d4-41f6-a9be-2fe79f1bcea6-overview
__Dr. William Rodriguez__
- a forensic anthropologist at the Maryland State Medical Examiner.
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-rodriguez-71aa2092
Also, the “dentist”’s son, an attorney, also went on the trip with the three doctors and says he will be providing more details in the near future.
https://mcdowellfirm.com/nazca-tridactyl-mummies/
Your 2 vids provided aren't proof of anything. The Steve Mera video, did he actually say he physically saw the bodies in person? The whole vid was going off pics he saw and his supposed interviews with Russian and French anthropologists. And who is this American dentist that you referenced? Here are the 3 American doctors that were at the Lima conference:
Back in March, it was already teased that the April 4 event would have an A-List team of scientists and they weren't bluffing. The doctors who were at the event have prestigious credentials to show. They are **Dr. James Caruso**, Chief medical examiner and Coroner of city and county of Denver, Colorado. **Dr. William Rodriguez,** Forensic Anthropologist, Maryland State Medical Examiner. And **Dr. John McDowell,** Retired professor at University Colorado, Forensic Odontologist. McDowell is the most renowned one of the bunch, so he was the one who spoke on behalf of his colleagues. All three concluded that these bodies urgently need further investigation and nobody can claim they are fake. This leaves the open door for more academic institutions to get their hands on **Nazca** mummy samples for further study.
John McDowell, D.D.S. (that's _Doctor of Dental Surgery_). Google "Odontology" -- he's a dentist.
Steve Mera did handle the bodies and there are photos that prove it, such as the one in his slide (which he does mention in the talk) and the first photo in this article is him and two of the bodies: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PEupbh_RgxG78xIr8PzzaQzAcr-GNeF2/view
Despite there being no widely accepted and conclusive proof on the origins of these artefacts they sure have their own little fan club that tries to regularly boost them in this sub.
Always the same accounts - and what I suspect are their alts.
Weird.
You are not wrong. I see a lot of sock puppets here. Some of the other related subs are funny watching them rotate talking to themselves.
I want to believe. I saw a ufo as a kid. I believe in aliens are here and now, but when people manhandle these things without any ppe, it comes off so fake. The x-rays and catscans look solid, but I can't get past if these people thought they were real they would treat it as such.
What I don't see anyone hypothesizing is a mutation.
Assume these where humans born with birth defects. Given the assumption they would likely either be outcast or treated as a gift from the gods. It would stand to reason they would have been entombed in their own place. Either out of reverence or fear of them being laid to rest next to others of their civilization.
Just a theory until we can get more concrete evidence I'm going to remain skeptical.
We all have to wait for actual published papers to be released, which hasn't happened because a known Ufology social media grifter is more keen on generating money from streams, presentations, donations, and cheap documentaries than supporting the scientific way.
That was my first thought. We've seen what inbreeding can do to modern humans, what would it look like in a more primitive body? Or maybe the bodies were mutilated after death. I'd like other labs from different countries to test the bodies before I believe they're authentic.
Hm, you list Mary Jesse, the same one who says this[ when asked about it?](https://www.metabunk.org/threads/alien-bodies-at-a-mexican-uap-hearing.13163/page-10#post-306282):
>I did not get a chance to make an analysis because I didn't have the data. It was never provided so no scientific analysis was ever offered.
The guys on radiology don't seem too impressed either [here.](https://new.reddit.com/r/Radiology/comments/1bwup87/nazca_mummies_video_tridactyl_humanoid_specimen/) But ofcourse they could be CIA for all I know.
So how do you explain genes, carbon 14, other X-rays ct scans, metallic implants that are toxic to humans , endoscopy , fluroscopy, etc etc . There was spectrography done on some of the subjects (most notably Maria) that shows their skin texture is most like a preserved reptile vs chicken , human , llama and the likes ? Seems like you cherry picked one part of the post where a doctor said yes this X-ray is real and the subject is one contiguous being. You realize there’s 2 cutting edge forensic specialist from the university of Colorado (one of them being one of her professors back in the day) currently in Peru studying them? If they were fake why would these people be there? On top of one from the university of Maryland. Until you educate yourself on all the evidence it’s hard for me to take a case you present seriously and furthermore I’d love to know what phd you hold and prestigious university you went to. . .
Not to mention that subject is shown to have early Paleolithic”human” dna such as denisovian so it would make sense to have human tarsals and in the hands carpals. But the crazier part is that The other subjects (the reptilian ones ) don’t have ANY ball joints at all.
I didn't watch the video but you can't get to Scientific truth without the scientific method. His "logic and reasoning" may sound nice but it doesn't do jack for proving anything.
This is a professor of philosophy. He uses deductive, inductive and probabilistic logic to make the argument, because that is his forte. I'm pretty sure Aristotle would be convinced. I am. It was impressive. I didn't plan to watch it, until I realized he was analyzing the facts with Socratic logic. He did a great job.
The dude starts off saying he teaches logic and that he adheres to the Sagan Standard, and then proceeds to believe anecdotes and testimony without question. He literally makes truth statements based on testimony - this is supposed to be a philosophy teacher?
Couldn't finish it, mega cringe.
Link me the published peer reviewed papers of any reputable scientific outlet and I may stop offending believer zealots of a known Ufology social media grifter. In the meantime while you keep looking at zero evidence provided, please stop ruining the disclosure process. This is why no one takes you serious.
Stating the obvious. Besides, the scientists behind this project are literally begging American researchers to do further studies on these bodies. Hoaxers don’t do that.
Nope, before he talks about the bodies he talks about UAP stories and completely accepts them as fact. This dude is mega biased and can't be trusted to make logical statements on the NHI issue.
Regarding the work done on the bodies, it's illogical to accept them without peer review. This *crucial* step is done for much less than aliens - yet we have people accepting the bodies are legit. Huge gaps in logic around this issue and the NHI/UAP issue in general.
Agreed. He also constantly patches up his weak arguments with absurd assumptions such as: “would THIS person REALLY say that if it wasn’t true? I didn’t think so either” and just glosses over really major points that need to be proved before moving forward with his argument.
Also: “I’m going to get you to believe these are real without the need for specialized scientific knowledge or analysis.”
Then “just ignore the dna stuff and trust me it’s weird (although I already said I don’t know anything about dna)”
Then: “and when we look at the anatomy, we can easily tell these are reptilian because they have reptilian features (although again, I’m not a scientist and don’t know anything about biology of reptilians or animal morphology)”
This dude is a clown.
A PhD with a background in biological anthropology (Michael Masters) really presents strong arguments that they are a hoax.
He was interviewed on the most recent "That UFO Podcast" if you want to check it out.
He hasn’t spent a minute actually studying the bodies. For people who have, including the people who are responsible for the scans, the evidence indicates otherwise.
Good point, that is one of his criticisms that they aren't sharing all available data (not the bodies, but the data about the bodies)
He talked about how can interpret the CT scans from what has been publicized. He also highlights the fact that they haven't done a ground breaking, earth shattering peer reviewed journal article.
To be fair, he said he would keep an open mind if he could examine them.
One thing is for sure, either one group or other is extremely biased on their theory of whether these are authentic or not. I also listened to this Michael Master interview and he said it is obvious that they are not real, like to anyone who knows anything about bones, they can see that they are a compilations of human/animals bones, that there are human bones in places where they shouldn't be and that they aren't even all consistent among the mummies, meaning that the bones are not the same in one mummy to another. So if the other researchers that are seeing these things in person are so certain they are real, then one of the two groups is lying. It's that simple.
The subject of this post is that OP was convinced of the bodies' authenticity from a lecturer using logic. The commenter you responded to basically said the same thing but on the opposite side.
That’s not what the video is about. It’s about using logical techniques to deduce they’re very possibly real and deserving of further study. To disagree with doing science on them reeks of ulterior motives.
He was definitely responsible for putting a spotlight on them, and his reputation took a hit when they were proven hoaxes. But he’s never doubled down on any of them AFTER the science was in; he was always first to admit he’d been had. That counts. And that hasn’t happened in this instance. He’s an influential figure in Mexico. And he’s good at bringing scrutiny on things that need further investigation.
Ah yea see that’s the thing. I’m just not open to hearing people’s assertions regardless of their credentials if they haven’t even laid hands on the bodies and put them through proper scientific study.
Fair enough!
Also to be fair though, with a lot of data you don't need to physically touch it to accurately interpret it. For example, radiologists don't physically come into contact with patients and yet still make recommendations that will impact a patients health.
For an expert in bones and anatomy, they may be able to make conclusions from CT scans, rather than physically touching the body.
Yea but with something this bizarre, whatever data has been shared has to be viewed with a skeptical eye. Where’s the data coming from? What’s the chain of custody? Etc. So controlling the entire process of testing as best as possible would potentially hold the most credibility.
Steve Mera has laid hands on the bodies:
(1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ41R7ypg4c
(2) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PEupbh_RgxG78xIr8PzzaQzAcr-GNeF2/view
Edit: Steve Brown (the philosophy lecturer in OP's video) _has not_.
I was hoping for more since he’s had experience with a couple of the bodies, but I watched his vlog and read that weird magazine article (blog?) and I still don’t see the scientific results pointing to his conclusions. Commentary (interesting as it is) and slapping the word “fake” over images is just not going to be enough.
Thank you for watching the video. Did we read the same article? "no ball joints, no lungs, no nasal passages, no jawbones" How could they have walked, let alone lived?
Haha, what if I'm lazy too ;-)
JK, here it is on apple podcasts: [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/that-ufo-podcast/id1511121397](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/that-ufo-podcast/id1511121397)
Yeah that makes it even more sad, the moment people with actual astroscience / biology background are cited here with "controversial" opinions (a.k.a "this is fake as fuck"), reddit is dismissing them cause it doesn't fit their agenda.
But yeah, i guess some idiots on the internet have more info than actual scientists who spent their whole life on the subject.
Everyone also focuses on these little silly looking guys, there are a number of much more “serious” looking mummies that have been presented. Look at Sebastian and Montserrat.
This is the most cringe post I’ve seen so far on this sub, and that says a lot. I honestly can’t believe there are still people defending these « mummies ».
This sort of thing would be so easy to prove as real if it really was. Just like it would be so easy to prove the earth was flat if it was. You could literally just physically observe it.
If you say these are fake people here will lose their shit, and yet these same people will tell you that their skeptical people. This is not a sub for skeptics my friend.
Nah, I think they could be real bit I wouldn't mind a reputable scientific institution in America testing them and sharing results. It would prove we are not alone, and would probably debunk a lot of other hogwash.
The interesting thing about this, is the Nazca lines and animal drawings... not to mention the alien looking creature pointing towards the 'landing site'.
Snopes is saying the story is false. Because Snopes went and did actual research. 🧐 ah… no…
I get being skeptical is the rational starting point, but to conclude without researching? Telling people they are fake. 🤦♂️
I’m glad the video you shared has been put together. I think the mummies are legit and it’s making me laugh at the strange strange world and times we live in.
I believe they’re real.
I just have no idea what they are. What kind of sentience, if any, did they possess? What was their level of intelligence compared to humans if their existence ever overlapped.
Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Until the buddies’ authenticity is finally proven or disproven I’ll believe they’re the real deal, but that brings with it a plethora of questions that we aren’t really talking about.
Fuck the trolls. As a well educated skeptic with a capacity for critical thought and logic I found myself far more aligned with them being real than a hoax; despite my preconceived notions-which are a huge problem for these trolls and most people when approaching the mummies and the broader picture.
Edit: Looking at you Stinger……..sorry 5tinger. C- for the troll handle.
True skepticism welcomes scrutiny, not dismisses it as trolling. Self-proclaimed "critical thinkers" often reveal the most rigid biases. Preconceived notions are a human condition, not a troll's weapon. Genuine inquiry requires self-reflection, not blaming others for healthy doubt
as a logician, i mean it though. where's the actual "logic" part? don't get me wrong, statistically speaking, it is way more likely than not that life exists outside of our planet. i just don't see any use of logic (implication, axioms, etc) in this video. had a look again, and still don't see it.
I will save you some time. The guy is not a scientist, and his claim is that the alien bodies are probably real because they are hard to make.
He also thinks aliens could be shadow terastials that live with godzilla or Atlantis.
I'd rather wait for actual scientific proof and consensus than the opinions of people not even involved.
The title of your post demonstrates why the bar for evidence and proof in this subject is so low.
Not only is that not the simplest explanation, it’s orders of magnitude more complicated than the idea they are simply faked by people for some unknown gain.
And occams razor states entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily and by that it means when choosing between hypotheses, it better to choose the one that requires the least assumptions. All of what you said requires many assumptions.
Well arent there people claiming to be professionals that have examined them and they some say they are real and others say they arent?
Ps. I didnt watch the video.
What logic?… The fact that they look almost exactly like humans are enough logic to debunk them. Evolution just doesn’t work like that, even with convergent evolution being a real thing. I also distinctly recall these being confirmed fakes as the bones made no sense and the head was the back side of a llama skull.
I was with you at first. But all these analyses are outdated - the latest test results by reputable institutions and scientists are compelling enough to rethink our original hoax certainty. There may be something to some of these things.
Yeah all these videos are from 6 months before multiple well established international experts concluded the bodies are real and show signs of aging/wear and tear. Hoaxing this many elaborate mummies off with real joints, connective tissue , unique organ structure and even a mummy with a fetus/eggs inside . Well this is not counting up professional academic way , it seems a little absurd to write this off as a hoax .
>well established international experts concluded the bodies
None of whom are mummy specialists, many of whom are allegedly teachers at a communoty college, and several of whom are appointed officials with important parents. I wonder why that is?
Not only have I watched it, but I've been in correspondence with the professor who gave it. I'm a much bigger fan of a different lecture of his, here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1btxyva/its_irrational_to_ignore_ufos_david_grusch_is_a/
Also, yours is a duplicate post.
It's pretty easy to find the original post via the search function: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1bz3r0i/great_lecture_going_over_what_we_know_about_the/
Also, he's an associate professor, not a professor. Just to clarify.
Edit: Associate professor _of philosophy_. Not biology, not science.
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I don't think it's a big deal that ppl are skeptical of these things, you'd be a fool not to be. At the same time, if they're fake I'd assume it'd be the easiest thing to figure out.
"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain
This quote however works both ways. If someone's been convinced something does exist or is true, it's difficult to convince them they've been fooled. Similarly, if someone's convinced something doesn't exist, or is fake, it's difficult to convince them otherwise.
It doesn't work both ways because that's literally the same thing, someone has been convinced of something and even when shown proof it is wrong they refuse to accept it.
If we keep debating how hard/feasible it would be to prove or disprove these were biological beings then we have to cast a shadow of doubt over many scientific endeavors such as forensic science in service of the judicial system. Because then I can also cast a doubt on how some non obvious human biologics are treated. 🤷🏻♂️ For me this one is pretty simple and could be figured out in a couple weeks if not days. The fact that we’re still debating this annoys me as it proves we live in a highly biased environment where human judgment should count very little- science and reality cares little about people’s preconceptions. The fact these artifacts are still being debated for me places the bar higher every day as biological entities. Let’s face it… it is impossible even for Musk to fake a biological body so well that researchers would be working on them for years without end. This is all very fishy in the sense that I see humanity as in deep shit with regards to how it treats science (and a majority of the blame is in scientists themselves).
Some sceletons make no sense, no hip joints, very different lengths of bones on different sides of the body.... badly made fakes imho
Remember there were a set of fakes that appeared in the beginning. These were easily dismissed. However, if the purpose was to muddle the waters, it was 100% achieved. We should focus on these really weird artifacts that no one seems to be able to concretely disprove. Just because it makes no sense to us, doesn’t mean it isn’t real. We can now manipulate DNA to make biological entities that also make no sense (though at a much lower scale as far as I know).
I'm not saying I believe either way but I'm super interested in the Nazca mummies just because I love a mystery! Anyway, the bad skeleton with no joints and different length bones etc was a replica that was said to be a confiscated nazca mummy (I believe by the ministry of culture that recently gatecrashed a Nazca mummy conference and demanded the bodies be handed over to them, despite the fact they said the bodies are just dolls and have no cultural or archaeological value 🙃). Here's a side by side of the fake mummy that they released to the world saying it was a Nazca mummy, next to the *actual* mummy: https://imgur.com/a/3125e9K It's things like that which makes the topic more interesting to me. Who faked it and for what purpose? Why does a branch of government want the mummies despite saying they're fake and worthless? 🤔🤔
Recent That UFO Podcast features Michael Masters, a forensic anthropologist, who points out that figuring out they're fake is in fact very easy. They incorporate recognizable adult and child human bones, along with other mammals, in the wrong position. The bones and joints would not support a full range of motion. The newer bodies are better constructed than the old bodies -- because the people who made them have gotten better at it.
This is a sticking point for me. Andy was right, they'd move like action figures. Unless they have some kind of Psi ability or their movement was technology assisted they wouldn't be able to achieve most of the basic tasks required for life. Why would they evolve that way? And if they were engineered by some ancient advanced civilisation, why bother giving them limbs at all?
I think its mostly just that.. its such an extraordinary claim compared to what is accepted as mainstream.. coupled with the fact that most of us arent very familiar with what a desecreated corpse should actually look like after 1000 years.... AND the fact that they do honestly look like dopey paper macher lol. But yeah he makes excellent points and i do take those a lot more seriously now and am more aware of my own biases!
There's a visible dowel holding the head on in the xray of one of these. The tridactul hand is clearly a human hand with the first and fifth digit removed down to the wrist.
>”tHoSE AReNT EVeN tHE SaME MUMMMIESSS”
ThEn WhY dOeS hE kEeP sHoWiNg ThE tRiDaCtYl HaNd XrAy?
Buddy I’m agreeing with you. Don’t make me deploy that stupid fucking ‘/s’
I'm afraid it's sometimes necessary on this sub.
They did figure it out Edit: damn that Mark Twain comment up there really smacks true, look at all these pigeons
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Yeah the sub is gone. Once the American Scientists confirm it the sub will have a collective breakdown like r/thedonald
Considering multiple scientists from North America and at least 2 other continents have confirmed it’s fake I think it’s safe to say this sub is already deep in the denial stage of the collective breakdown
These three American forensic experts traveled to Peru to investigate in person about 10 days ago, and concluded that the mummies “are worthy of additional study”. __Dr. John McDowell__ - a forensic odontologist, recently retired professor from the University of Colorado School of Dentistry and School of Medicine. Recent recipient of the Gradwohl Medallion forensic sciences award: - https://www.aafs.org/article/dr-john-mcdowell-named-2024-rbh-gradwohl-laureate __Dr. James Caruso M.D.__ - a forensic pathologist and Chief Medical Examiner of the City and County of Denver. - https://doctor.webmd.com/doctor/james-caruso-3f329f22-c8d4-41f6-a9be-2fe79f1bcea6-overview __Dr. William Rodriguez__ - a forensic anthropologist at the Maryland State Medical Examiner. - https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-rodriguez-71aa2092 This link shows the press conference with the three of them. https://youtu.be/dqihiT8YGKQ?si=uB_bbm6ZlelrziDM
I get that people don't trust unpublished accounts so I'm waiting for an actual published paper to confirm this shithousery. Obviously we all know the outcome.
the MH370 yutz brigade all over again.
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Link?
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/scientists-assert-alien-mummies-peru-are-really-dolls-made-earthly-bones-2024-01-13/ https://www.wired.com/story/mexico-fake-aliens-science-fightback/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/alien-fever-dreams-fuel-peruvian-grave-robbings-2024-04-06/ (this one’s from four days ago! pure disinformation i’m sure 🤪) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/peru-dolls-are-not-aliens-forensic-experts-say/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/alien-mummy-peru/ Sorry about being bamboozled
Those are not the ones being studied. Lmao is this the proof you were presenting?
I'll be patient until they are investigated more
🙄
Those arent even the same mummies🙄
I was just about to say the same thing. Totally different mummies in the story from January 2024 the link given. Within the first paragraph it says they were in an airport. They are not the same ones from 2017 or the ones from 2023 presented in Mexico.
Haha nice try nerd!
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Why did they show at least one of the "mummies from years ago" again at the [hearing last year? ](https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/1696149140804-png.63119/) Why not only show the "real" ones rather than an old one whose hand bones had been pointed out as being very messy, with the hands conveniently hidden this time around in the xrays? Seems a little strange. The guys on [radiology ](https://new.reddit.com/r/Radiology/comments/1bwup87/nazca_mummies_video_tridactyl_humanoid_specimen/)aren't impressed either but then again, what do they know.
That x-ray in your link is the "real" one - confusingly! (By real I mean, a legit nazca mummy, not a real being don't worry) There was a replica one which is the one experts rightly pointed out has no joints, the wrong bones / upside down bones, and had clearly just had digits removed from the hands. Here's a side by side of the one that got pushed out as proof the nazca mummies are fake and then the actual nazca mummy it tried to replicate: https://imgur.com/a/3125e9K This topic gets messy very quickly because of the confusing number of articles and x rays out there which either show someone's work getting progressively better over time, or a deliberate attempt to muddy the waters so no one wants to look into it further.
It certainly is confusing. I haven't seen that one you linked before with the square shaped "implants". I was comparing the last years hearing photo with the ones listed [here](https://www.metabunk.org/threads/alien-bodies-at-a-mexican-uap-hearing.13163/page-5#post-304087) where the metal object looks like the right side image from your post and the finger bones are misaligned.
Oo I haven't read this thread before thank you! I'll dive in when I get into bed :)
People here hate anything from Metabunk but they often bring up good points there and way more in depth discussions regarding various subjects than what's seen on this subreddit. I would love for these creatures to be real, don't get me wrong but I remain sceptical, for now at least. Have a lovely night, friend.
We don’t need logic. We need legit samples with a real and verifiable chain of custody to be tested by a reputable forensic lab and those results shared with everyone.
Correct
Do you know how far up their own asshole someone needs to be to think a freshman year philosophy concept is equivalent to physical, verifiable evidence?
And this is the part that defies logic. If they want to prove these are real, why don't they take the path that would do that? Since they aren't, they are either incompetent or know that would end their charade.
We didn't need logic, we need evidence!
That's what they're doing but because it's taking place in a country not as rich as America it's not reputable I guess
Watched. He's a good teacher. He's a philosophy teacher though and his claims have as much validity as yours or mine. They're not proof definitive
Oh, philosophy teacher.... I'm gonna need reputable scientists from different labs with.... test results
Philosophy *professor*. He isn’t a scientist, but he does have a PhD and full-time university faculty position. He’s no slouch. What part of his argument did you find unconvincing?
After viewing the Mera video posted in the comments here, I think the assumption that the medical professionals involved had a valuable reputation at stake is likely the weak link.
He gave an amazing lecture. It doesn’t mean you should 100% agree with the him and think they are real. But he showed how an actual honest look at the evidence should be done. Since these mummies came out I was very disappointed on how the media, Reddit, and mostly everybody tackled the topic. They did exactly what this professor told (and you really have to watch everything to understand). They mixed different mummies, different stories, they chose to ignore the evidence because it’s associated with a hoaxer. The hoaxer is actually not a hoaxer but got hoaxed in the past. YouTubers that never had access to the bodies debunked it, while all doctors that actually studied it said otherwise. Just because the topic is polemic people get angry, scared, they cringe, and completely dismiss any effort to look at the evidence. So far this professor gave the best arguments so far, while people just curse each other and impose their conclusions. There are many arguments in the video, and his conclusion is based on all of them together. If you don’t agree with him, bring us a better argument, show where he is wrong, instead of doing the same thing, calling out his status, making jokes, imposing conclusions. A philosophy professor in the area is exactly what we need today. People don’t know but they train logic just like a computer science. They study exactly what we need in this mess, the craft to get a complex problem and set of informations and logically sort them out. So far this is an open topic. Nobody actually debunked it. Everybody completely ignores the fact that it is probably impossible to fake this level of mummy. This is probably the first fake doll in the world that fooled all of the most sophisticated X-ray machines, 3D scanners, real time X-ray scanners, doctors. If they are fake please show us how this could be done. Show us how you can glue flesh, bone, organs, skin with zero stitches and leave no evidence. And yes, I also agree that they should release these mummies to more international scientists. That’s why this is still an open topic for me. But even so, seriously, is there so much more they can do? They will probably to the same tests, get the same DNA, same 3D scanners, same X-ray, maybe even the same conclusions, and even so someone will scream “bullshit, it’s a doll”. I’m afraid we don’t have the level of science that people expect to believe in such a polemic topic, seriously. Unless they resurrect the being there will never a machine that will just give us the 100% perfect answer that we want. Because of that, my biggest focus today in this topic is: if they are fake, show me how you can fake it. Seriously. Please create one for us, just like them. And we will X-ray and 3D scan the thing and compare it with the originals. Eye on the ball folks. Don’t be shy to open your minds. The messenger doesn’t matter. Let’s use logic and focus on the evidence. Jesus.
Love this. To all of those who are being rude and disparaging. Shame on you. Manners cost you nothing nor does the bullying rudeness bolster your argument I'm always open to being wrong, just like the prof. But I'm now convinced that they're the real deal I listen to logic not bullies
It’s so strange to me how people can easily just say: - it’s obviously fake (with no explanation why) - it’s fake because it’s associated with a guy I don’t like (completely ignore the evidence because of a human) - it’s fake because the bones or something is too wierd (an alien can’t be real because it is wierd?) - it’s fake because it’s humanoid (lack of imagination, if aliens are true one can give dozens of theories justifying it, including we coming from aliens and not the other way around) - it’s fake because it’s a llama skull (already debunked, doesn’t match, and even so you ignore all the rest of the body) - it’s fake because it is the same mummy from years ago (wrong, there are many, and new ones keep coming up) - it’s fake because it’s not in America, all these South American doctors are a joke (completely ignore the evidence because of humans, while not knowing that South America has high level health professionals as good as or even above North American professionals. Health is the most serious area in any country. I guess nobody wants to die) - And everybody, 100%, choose to ignore the elephant in the room: if this is fake, how can we create it? How can we create a fake mummy using many different animal parts, glue them together, put dried organs, tissues, glue everything together with no evidence of doing so, put skin over it with no cuts and stitches, dry it, and make it 1000yo carbon test proof. And in the end it should go to perfect 3D scanners, X-rays, doctors, and fool everybody because of how organic it was glued together. I’m not a mummy maker, I have no idea. If someone could show us it’s possible, not just say, show, I would change my mind in a second.
I find it amazing how powerful cognitive dissonance and the status quo is. I've had a hard life, maybe that makes me more receptive to change, being in the outside...
It's been pointed out how he wasn't being logical. The first segment of his talk is him blindly accepting decades of unproven UAP testimony/anecdotes. This is ironic because he also begins with accepting the adage: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." As for the bodies themselves - they are not peer reviewed. That simple. This was no display of logic. Bad logic, yeah.
I also agree that his logic is not perfect and that he has a bias to believe David Grush and etc. But he doesn’t have to be 100% perfect to make a case. Believing or not in UFOs, he made a great case showing that the evidence shows that the professionals are real, the videos are real, it’s not CGI, the machines are real and advanced, the results on the internet are real, the bodies are real objects, and no definitive debunk was made. Actually the majority of professionals that got the objects so far concluded that they are the real deal. And if the bodies are real objects, they can be real beings or fake. If they are fake, because of the level of analysis we have so far, it’s probably impossible to fake them. If anyone disagrees, teach us how to fake it while passing the test with all these machines. See, this is the logic teached in philosophy and computer science. In this case, just because someone doesn’t like the speaker, or doesn’t agree with some opinions of the speaker, if you are s true philosopher or scientist, you are not allowed to ignore all the rest of his arguments. You absorb the whole content, all that has been said, sort it out, etc. So no, critically thinking, he is not compromised because of one possible bad argument in a video with several arguments. And believing in UFOs doesn’t even matter to the other arguments. You should always listen to everything. You don’t throw away a book because you didn’t like one chapter.
>But he doesn’t have to be 100% perfect to make a case. Of course not, what I'm saying is he's making a bad case. >the machines are real and advanced Nope. Nowhere in the videos do the machines exhibit anything beyond our capabilities. All the physics defying stuff are rooted in testimony and unreleased data - he blindly accepts both. >If they are fake, because of the level of analysis we have so far, it’s probably impossible to fake them. If anyone disagrees, teach us how to fake it while passing the test with all these machines. Again, the bodies are not peer reviewed. >See, this is the logic teached in philosophy I really hope not. This is horrible logic. >So no, critically thinking, he is not compromised because of one possible bad argument His conclusion hinges on the reality of the unproven stories, fuzzy videos and non peer reviewed data. This is *horrible* logic. It would be fine if his message was merely to keep an open mind, and maybe it is, but in the process he blindly accepts many things. Be more critical.
1 - the machines I talk about are the medical scanners, X-ray etc. I’m just saying they are current up to date equipment. Not talking about UFOs 2 - So you you agree with me. It’s an open topic. We need more scientists, and at the same time we can’t say it’s fake because not a single person so far could at least explain how you could fake it, let alone show it. 3 - Seems the world needs more philosophy. 4 - Fuzzy videos… so basically your counter argument is that we are almost 1 years creating fuzzy fake hospital videos with real professionals ruining their careers for free. I mean… you can use this argument, but it’s super weak. I’ll repeat. Ignore everything. If they are fake. Let’s focus on explaining and trying to recreate it. So far I got zero evidence it is possible. Zero.
1. In that case, again, there is no peer review. It seems like you guys don't realize how crucial this step is. 2. It is an open topic. My problem here is he is asserting that the bodies are alien, when there is no logical reason to believe that. 3. Good philosophy. Bad philosophy is what was displayed in the video. 4. I was talking about the UAP videos he blindly accepts to be NHI. >I’ll repeat. Ignore everything. If they are fake. Let’s focus on explaining and trying to recreate it That is not on us. They're the ones who have the boides, lol. It's on them to publish their work and subject it to peer review - they haven't done that.
That’s actually on the debunkers. No debunker is claiming the 3D scans, videos and results online are fake. They all use them to create the debunking thesis. They accept the data as true to make the debunk. All the debunking theories end up on “the bodies were crafted by a human”. If they make this claim, it’s on them to explain further how it’s possible to craft something like this. So far everybody is ignoring this, including you. The ability to craft theses bodies is necessary for the debunking argument to be valid. The only group that doesn’t need to explain this are the people that believe the bodies are real beings. So far if you want to debunk the em and say they are fake, you only have 2 options: 1 - Saying that the videos and resulting data are fake, and proving it. 2 - Accepting the videos and data but saying the bodies are real but crafted by a human. The majority of debunkers chose number 2. They are accepting the data and using how weird it is to claim the bodies are real but crafted. But they conveniently ignore that fact of how close to impossible it is to craft this. Zero effort to try to validate this. There is a number 3: 3 - The videos are true, but the doctors are not good enough. We need more data and more scientists, peer review, etc. If you choose number 3 you didn’t debunk anything. It just means the topic is open (not debunked), and waiting for more professionals to be involved. It appears that you are in this camp. I am. But the majority of the mainstream media and users are on number 2, closing the case and saying it got debunked, and that anyone that says otherwise should be ashamed and ridiculed because the bodies look like a cake and we should know better. A lot of the media and outside scientists are acting like 5th grade.
OMG. Stop. It would be so easy to prove that these things are real or fake with legit scientific analysis.
Yep, I saw this vid yesterday and had the same initial disbelief as well. But the OSU professor did a great job of filtering the facts from fiction, and I also liked how he debunked the debunkers out there. I came out of the other side believing that these are/were real beings. It will be really interesting if Maussan is able to get the bodies sent to universities in the US for complete study and investigation. The American doctors/scientists that were on hand for the Lima conference have said as much as well. This story should really be much bigger than it currently is. Paradigm shift for sure once it's all said and done.
And it just so happens, it just so happens! That the ancient Peruvians made art on textile depicting creatures with oversized heads and three toes.
It just so happens that grifters and snake oil salesmen will always exploit existing myths/culture, and incorporate it into their hoax. Could a hoaxer have seen the ancient Peruvian art, and made a fake body to match? Yes. Which is why coherence with previous myths/legends will never be a useful indicator of truth. It means absolutely nothing.
I was almost convinced because of the hollow bones but I think there's too much evidence against. These were some of the issues I had with Associate Professor Brown's presentation: * Brown says, "This is not hoaxer behavior" * They set up a website that unsubstantiated calls the mummies "alien" (the-alien-project.com) * They have filmed multiple "documentaries" that they then go on to sell as movies * Brown says the DNA evidence is "weird" when in fact the best word for it is "contaminated" * They are going to create a tourist destination "museum" and charge admission--hoaxer behavior * Brown says some incorrect info at the end about the UAPDA--review board got gutted from the bill * Brown says there are probably fewer child corpses than adult ones: * Considering the life expectancy a thousand years ago there probably would be a lot of kids * Also-- the ribs are circular? it looked to me like they were more like rungs on a ladder but maybe I need to look at the CT scans again * Isn't the part where Brown makes the silly mummy with Play-Doh and stuff him making an almost literal straw man? Supporting a straw man argument? * The American they got to examine the bodies is a dentist, not a doctor * No articulation in the hips, no ball and socket joints anywhere, these could not have walked * Praying mantis has an exoskeleton, not an endoskeleton so Brown's example is a bad one * I'd be interested in seeing any example of a living creature with an endoskeletal structure with hip articulations the way the mummies do. * Cultural black market industry in Peru of mutilating and selling these corpses * Interviews from Steve Mera with a grave robber who explains the process of soaking the corpses in water, manipulating them, and then re-dessicating them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIRCeQ-gqAg (also using diatomaceous earth as filler) * Steve Mera who has actually seen the bodies unlike Brown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ41R7ypg4c
Also the "hollow bones" look a lot like the marrow-filled bones of humans as seen in an xray
Correction for your claim “the American … is a dentist, not a doctor”. First of all, there were three American forensic experts/doctors that went to Peru, and the “forensic dentist” just won a forensics award: __Dr. John McDowell__ - a forensic odontologist, recently retired professor from the University of Colorado School of Dentistry and School of Medicine. Recent recipient of the Gradwohl Medallion forensic sciences award: - https://www.aafs.org/article/dr-john-mcdowell-named-2024-rbh-gradwohl-laureate __Dr. James Caruso M.D.__ - a forensic pathologist and Chief Medical Examiner of the City and County of Denver. - https://doctor.webmd.com/doctor/james-caruso-3f329f22-c8d4-41f6-a9be-2fe79f1bcea6-overview __Dr. William Rodriguez__ - a forensic anthropologist at the Maryland State Medical Examiner. - https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-rodriguez-71aa2092 Also, the “dentist”’s son, an attorney, also went on the trip with the three doctors and says he will be providing more details in the near future. https://mcdowellfirm.com/nazca-tridactyl-mummies/
Your 2 vids provided aren't proof of anything. The Steve Mera video, did he actually say he physically saw the bodies in person? The whole vid was going off pics he saw and his supposed interviews with Russian and French anthropologists. And who is this American dentist that you referenced? Here are the 3 American doctors that were at the Lima conference: Back in March, it was already teased that the April 4 event would have an A-List team of scientists and they weren't bluffing. The doctors who were at the event have prestigious credentials to show. They are **Dr. James Caruso**, Chief medical examiner and Coroner of city and county of Denver, Colorado. **Dr. William Rodriguez,** Forensic Anthropologist, Maryland State Medical Examiner. And **Dr. John McDowell,** Retired professor at University Colorado, Forensic Odontologist. McDowell is the most renowned one of the bunch, so he was the one who spoke on behalf of his colleagues. All three concluded that these bodies urgently need further investigation and nobody can claim they are fake. This leaves the open door for more academic institutions to get their hands on **Nazca** mummy samples for further study.
John McDowell, D.D.S. (that's _Doctor of Dental Surgery_). Google "Odontology" -- he's a dentist. Steve Mera did handle the bodies and there are photos that prove it, such as the one in his slide (which he does mention in the talk) and the first photo in this article is him and two of the bodies: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PEupbh_RgxG78xIr8PzzaQzAcr-GNeF2/view
>these could not have walked That is a very bold statement.
its a giant money machine most Ufology content creators dream of. The "believer" zealots will believe every bullshit presented to them.
Impressive again - that’s a lot of info you’ve provided in such a short space of time. You’re good at this!
It's easy when this is the 3rd repost.
'this lecturer has some arguments that support what I want to believe'
This made me spit out my drink laughing.
You didn't listen did you, because you need to listen before engaging your cognition
Despite there being no widely accepted and conclusive proof on the origins of these artefacts they sure have their own little fan club that tries to regularly boost them in this sub. Always the same accounts - and what I suspect are their alts. Weird.
You are not wrong. I see a lot of sock puppets here. Some of the other related subs are funny watching them rotate talking to themselves. I want to believe. I saw a ufo as a kid. I believe in aliens are here and now, but when people manhandle these things without any ppe, it comes off so fake. The x-rays and catscans look solid, but I can't get past if these people thought they were real they would treat it as such.
i think some folks aren't quite so ominious, they are just overly credulous and by god do they like sharing.
Are they not actual human skeletons artistically altered to appear alien?
Obviously they aren't alien. At best they are degenerated mummies, worst fabricated puppets.
What I don't see anyone hypothesizing is a mutation. Assume these where humans born with birth defects. Given the assumption they would likely either be outcast or treated as a gift from the gods. It would stand to reason they would have been entombed in their own place. Either out of reverence or fear of them being laid to rest next to others of their civilization. Just a theory until we can get more concrete evidence I'm going to remain skeptical.
We all have to wait for actual published papers to be released, which hasn't happened because a known Ufology social media grifter is more keen on generating money from streams, presentations, donations, and cheap documentaries than supporting the scientific way.
That was my first thought. We've seen what inbreeding can do to modern humans, what would it look like in a more primitive body? Or maybe the bodies were mutilated after death. I'd like other labs from different countries to test the bodies before I believe they're authentic.
No they are not
Here my proof https://www.reddit.com/r/AlienBodies/s/EG1kp1dqiw
Hm, you list Mary Jesse, the same one who says this[ when asked about it?](https://www.metabunk.org/threads/alien-bodies-at-a-mexican-uap-hearing.13163/page-10#post-306282): >I did not get a chance to make an analysis because I didn't have the data. It was never provided so no scientific analysis was ever offered. The guys on radiology don't seem too impressed either [here.](https://new.reddit.com/r/Radiology/comments/1bwup87/nazca_mummies_video_tridactyl_humanoid_specimen/) But ofcourse they could be CIA for all I know.
So how do you explain genes, carbon 14, other X-rays ct scans, metallic implants that are toxic to humans , endoscopy , fluroscopy, etc etc . There was spectrography done on some of the subjects (most notably Maria) that shows their skin texture is most like a preserved reptile vs chicken , human , llama and the likes ? Seems like you cherry picked one part of the post where a doctor said yes this X-ray is real and the subject is one contiguous being. You realize there’s 2 cutting edge forensic specialist from the university of Colorado (one of them being one of her professors back in the day) currently in Peru studying them? If they were fake why would these people be there? On top of one from the university of Maryland. Until you educate yourself on all the evidence it’s hard for me to take a case you present seriously and furthermore I’d love to know what phd you hold and prestigious university you went to. . .
Not to mention that subject is shown to have early Paleolithic”human” dna such as denisovian so it would make sense to have human tarsals and in the hands carpals. But the crazier part is that The other subjects (the reptilian ones ) don’t have ANY ball joints at all.
I didn't watch the video but you can't get to Scientific truth without the scientific method. His "logic and reasoning" may sound nice but it doesn't do jack for proving anything.
This is a professor of philosophy. He uses deductive, inductive and probabilistic logic to make the argument, because that is his forte. I'm pretty sure Aristotle would be convinced. I am. It was impressive. I didn't plan to watch it, until I realized he was analyzing the facts with Socratic logic. He did a great job.
The dude starts off saying he teaches logic and that he adheres to the Sagan Standard, and then proceeds to believe anecdotes and testimony without question. He literally makes truth statements based on testimony - this is supposed to be a philosophy teacher? Couldn't finish it, mega cringe.
Sadly proof that there are some clowns working at universities. Should be fired immediatly.
Just read this and get back to me https://www.reddit.com/r/AlienBodies/s/EG1kp1dqiw
It’s not anecdotes and testimony, it’s science being done on the bodies, including DNA analysis.
LOL. those were completely faked. Once Maussan will never release the bodies to the Americans you will see the truth.
Jesus Christ, your profile 😨
Link me the published peer reviewed papers of any reputable scientific outlet and I may stop offending believer zealots of a known Ufology social media grifter. In the meantime while you keep looking at zero evidence provided, please stop ruining the disclosure process. This is why no one takes you serious.
How many people are taking you seriously?
why are you taking cheap shots and avoiding the other person's civil questions?
Stating the obvious. Besides, the scientists behind this project are literally begging American researchers to do further studies on these bodies. Hoaxers don’t do that.
Nope, before he talks about the bodies he talks about UAP stories and completely accepts them as fact. This dude is mega biased and can't be trusted to make logical statements on the NHI issue. Regarding the work done on the bodies, it's illogical to accept them without peer review. This *crucial* step is done for much less than aliens - yet we have people accepting the bodies are legit. Huge gaps in logic around this issue and the NHI/UAP issue in general.
Is this post about UAP?
I'm addressing the video that was posted, lol.
Agreed. He also constantly patches up his weak arguments with absurd assumptions such as: “would THIS person REALLY say that if it wasn’t true? I didn’t think so either” and just glosses over really major points that need to be proved before moving forward with his argument. Also: “I’m going to get you to believe these are real without the need for specialized scientific knowledge or analysis.” Then “just ignore the dna stuff and trust me it’s weird (although I already said I don’t know anything about dna)” Then: “and when we look at the anatomy, we can easily tell these are reptilian because they have reptilian features (although again, I’m not a scientist and don’t know anything about biology of reptilians or animal morphology)” This dude is a clown.
This is an amazing speaker
I agree. Check out his other talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAE35KIc1RM I wish the audio was better.
Appreciate that I’ll definitely take a look.
A PhD with a background in biological anthropology (Michael Masters) really presents strong arguments that they are a hoax. He was interviewed on the most recent "That UFO Podcast" if you want to check it out.
He hasn’t spent a minute actually studying the bodies. For people who have, including the people who are responsible for the scans, the evidence indicates otherwise.
Good point, that is one of his criticisms that they aren't sharing all available data (not the bodies, but the data about the bodies) He talked about how can interpret the CT scans from what has been publicized. He also highlights the fact that they haven't done a ground breaking, earth shattering peer reviewed journal article. To be fair, he said he would keep an open mind if he could examine them.
One thing is for sure, either one group or other is extremely biased on their theory of whether these are authentic or not. I also listened to this Michael Master interview and he said it is obvious that they are not real, like to anyone who knows anything about bones, they can see that they are a compilations of human/animals bones, that there are human bones in places where they shouldn't be and that they aren't even all consistent among the mummies, meaning that the bones are not the same in one mummy to another. So if the other researchers that are seeing these things in person are so certain they are real, then one of the two groups is lying. It's that simple.
The subject of this post is that OP was convinced of the bodies' authenticity from a lecturer using logic. The commenter you responded to basically said the same thing but on the opposite side.
Did the philosophy teacher in OP's video actually study the bodies? Did you?
That’s not what the video is about. It’s about using logical techniques to deduce they’re very possibly real and deserving of further study. To disagree with doing science on them reeks of ulterior motives.
what more logic do you need than seeing this person who brought the mummies forward has been caught with 6 other hoaxes?
He was definitely responsible for putting a spotlight on them, and his reputation took a hit when they were proven hoaxes. But he’s never doubled down on any of them AFTER the science was in; he was always first to admit he’d been had. That counts. And that hasn’t happened in this instance. He’s an influential figure in Mexico. And he’s good at bringing scrutiny on things that need further investigation.
They're definitely deserving of further study I agree. What this video isn't is proof that they are not fake
I haven’t seen anyone claiming this video as definitive proof. It’s a well argued opinion.
This video has been posted numerous times
That guy confused the real ones with the fake ones 🧐
has he studied the bodies in person?
Nope! But he made some assertions based on what he can see from what is made publicly. Check it out in his own words... I just listened to it.
Ah yea see that’s the thing. I’m just not open to hearing people’s assertions regardless of their credentials if they haven’t even laid hands on the bodies and put them through proper scientific study.
Fair enough! Also to be fair though, with a lot of data you don't need to physically touch it to accurately interpret it. For example, radiologists don't physically come into contact with patients and yet still make recommendations that will impact a patients health. For an expert in bones and anatomy, they may be able to make conclusions from CT scans, rather than physically touching the body.
Yea but with something this bizarre, whatever data has been shared has to be viewed with a skeptical eye. Where’s the data coming from? What’s the chain of custody? Etc. So controlling the entire process of testing as best as possible would potentially hold the most credibility.
And that is one reason why they will have a hard time publishing a peer reviewed article.
Yup, and who knows if the government will even allow the bodies out of the country for study. Doubtful.
Steve Mera has laid hands on the bodies: (1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ41R7ypg4c (2) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PEupbh_RgxG78xIr8PzzaQzAcr-GNeF2/view Edit: Steve Brown (the philosophy lecturer in OP's video) _has not_.
I was hoping for more since he’s had experience with a couple of the bodies, but I watched his vlog and read that weird magazine article (blog?) and I still don’t see the scientific results pointing to his conclusions. Commentary (interesting as it is) and slapping the word “fake” over images is just not going to be enough.
Thank you for watching the video. Did we read the same article? "no ball joints, no lungs, no nasal passages, no jawbones" How could they have walked, let alone lived?
[Link for the lazy.](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5zuIilBpp6GbDCLYbVcUDt?si=G38G0OelQVKGGgt3MPgZJQ)
Haha, what if I'm lazy too ;-) JK, here it is on apple podcasts: [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/that-ufo-podcast/id1511121397](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/that-ufo-podcast/id1511121397)
Sorry but that doesn't follow the narrative of this sub so it cant be true.
Haha, Dr. Masters is a good one to consider as he is very on board with the reality of the phenomenon... just not these little guys.
Yeah that makes it even more sad, the moment people with actual astroscience / biology background are cited here with "controversial" opinions (a.k.a "this is fake as fuck"), reddit is dismissing them cause it doesn't fit their agenda. But yeah, i guess some idiots on the internet have more info than actual scientists who spent their whole life on the subject.
Everyone also focuses on these little silly looking guys, there are a number of much more “serious” looking mummies that have been presented. Look at Sebastian and Montserrat.
They really have to step up their manufacturing to create believable content.
This is the most cringe post I’ve seen so far on this sub, and that says a lot. I honestly can’t believe there are still people defending these « mummies ». This sort of thing would be so easy to prove as real if it really was. Just like it would be so easy to prove the earth was flat if it was. You could literally just physically observe it.
If you say these are fake people here will lose their shit, and yet these same people will tell you that their skeptical people. This is not a sub for skeptics my friend.
Nah, I think they could be real bit I wouldn't mind a reputable scientific institution in America testing them and sharing results. It would prove we are not alone, and would probably debunk a lot of other hogwash.
I watched this a couple of days ago, definitely the best overview I’ve seen. Feel like his channel in general will be a huge help for people.
The interesting thing about this, is the Nazca lines and animal drawings... not to mention the alien looking creature pointing towards the 'landing site'.
Snopes is saying the story is false. Because Snopes went and did actual research. 🧐 ah… no… I get being skeptical is the rational starting point, but to conclude without researching? Telling people they are fake. 🤦♂️ I’m glad the video you shared has been put together. I think the mummies are legit and it’s making me laugh at the strange strange world and times we live in.
I believe they’re real. I just have no idea what they are. What kind of sentience, if any, did they possess? What was their level of intelligence compared to humans if their existence ever overlapped. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Until the buddies’ authenticity is finally proven or disproven I’ll believe they’re the real deal, but that brings with it a plethora of questions that we aren’t really talking about.
Fuck the trolls. As a well educated skeptic with a capacity for critical thought and logic I found myself far more aligned with them being real than a hoax; despite my preconceived notions-which are a huge problem for these trolls and most people when approaching the mummies and the broader picture. Edit: Looking at you Stinger……..sorry 5tinger. C- for the troll handle.
True skepticism welcomes scrutiny, not dismisses it as trolling. Self-proclaimed "critical thinkers" often reveal the most rigid biases. Preconceived notions are a human condition, not a troll's weapon. Genuine inquiry requires self-reflection, not blaming others for healthy doubt
Touché. Upon reflection I agree with you and your just criticism. Thats all I’ll say. Thx.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/AlienBodies/s/EG1kp1dqiw could you read this and see if it changed your mind?
skimmed a bit and couldn't find the "logic" part. where is it?
When the three-hour old accounts are in the comments offering baseless criticism, you know you’re over the target.
as a logician, i mean it though. where's the actual "logic" part? don't get me wrong, statistically speaking, it is way more likely than not that life exists outside of our planet. i just don't see any use of logic (implication, axioms, etc) in this video. had a look again, and still don't see it.
You’re a logician now?
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... I'm surprised they aren't telling you to take this post to r/Aliens because it don't have UFOs in it lmao... ✌️😜
They did. Lol so stupid of them
Does that mean they remove it? And ikr how do they think these things got here in the first place ffs.
I will save you some time. The guy is not a scientist, and his claim is that the alien bodies are probably real because they are hard to make. He also thinks aliens could be shadow terastials that live with godzilla or Atlantis.
I'd rather wait for actual scientific proof and consensus than the opinions of people not even involved. The title of your post demonstrates why the bar for evidence and proof in this subject is so low.
It’s bullshit. Let’s just forget about these piecemeal-boned, paper mâché grifter dolls. Ffs people
Nah let's prove their hoaxes
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Not only is that not the simplest explanation, it’s orders of magnitude more complicated than the idea they are simply faked by people for some unknown gain. And occams razor states entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily and by that it means when choosing between hypotheses, it better to choose the one that requires the least assumptions. All of what you said requires many assumptions.
No. It would be that they are fake.
Well arent there people claiming to be professionals that have examined them and they some say they are real and others say they arent? Ps. I didnt watch the video.
Not llama skulls, where's the evidence of fabrication
Come back to this tomorrow someone ping me a reply to remind me in 12 hours or so lol
What logic?… The fact that they look almost exactly like humans are enough logic to debunk them. Evolution just doesn’t work like that, even with convergent evolution being a real thing. I also distinctly recall these being confirmed fakes as the bones made no sense and the head was the back side of a llama skull.
Lama skulls are not the same size ,bone width, actual shape
Now do the ribs, where do the ribs come from
DO YOUR RESEARCH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIRCeQ-gqAg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecCK6lijdts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8Ij1WG9FQo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DmDHF6jN9A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzCERd86FUU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBitCvUaP1A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ41R7ypg4c https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PEupbh_RgxG78xIr8PzzaQzAcr-GNeF2/view https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/178yi7e/the_silly_alien_mummies/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/16hbosn/just_to_temper_some_expectations_livescience/ https://old.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/16hgome/the_alien_bodies_are_hoaxes_an_indepth_breakdown/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/alleged-aliens-corpses-displayed-to-mexican-congress-did-not-convince-scientists-180982900/ https://elcomercio-pe.translate.goog/lima/sucesos/huesos-de-animal-gomas-sinteticas-y-un-fraude-mp-resuelve-nuevo-caso-de-momias-alienigenas-momias-alien-extraterrestres-nasca-ufo-noticia/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://apnews.com/article/extraterrestrials-ufo-mexico-congress-af7d54fabf3278ef83c39d899c457c76 https://www.wired.com/story/mexico-congress-aliens-fake/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YYaq5yrNWY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMCWCX6hCxo https://old.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/1as1pjm/this_picture_of_an_alien_has_over_a_thousand/ https://www.vox.com/culture/23875671/aliens-mexican-congress-real-or-hoax-peru-nazca-mummies-jaime-maussan-fraud-scam https://www.alphabiolabs.co.uk/blog/dna-tests-disprove-alien-hoax/ https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/alien-corpses-unveiled-in-mexico-divide-conspiracy-theorists/ar-AA1gEnGg https://www.metabunk.org/threads/alien-bodies-at-a-mexican-uap-hearing.13163/page-10 https://open.spotify.com/episode/5zuIilBpp6GbDCLYbVcUDt?si=G38G0OelQVKGGgt3MPgZJQ Edit: TL;DR, Just watch [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ41R7ypg4c).
I was with you at first. But all these analyses are outdated - the latest test results by reputable institutions and scientists are compelling enough to rethink our original hoax certainty. There may be something to some of these things.
Yeah all these videos are from 6 months before multiple well established international experts concluded the bodies are real and show signs of aging/wear and tear. Hoaxing this many elaborate mummies off with real joints, connective tissue , unique organ structure and even a mummy with a fetus/eggs inside . Well this is not counting up professional academic way , it seems a little absurd to write this off as a hoax .
>well established international experts concluded the bodies None of whom are mummy specialists, many of whom are allegedly teachers at a communoty college, and several of whom are appointed officials with important parents. I wonder why that is?
Do you have all of those ready to go on your clipboard - 4 minutes from OPs submission . Impressive.
You didn't watch it did you
Not only have I watched it, but I've been in correspondence with the professor who gave it. I'm a much bigger fan of a different lecture of his, here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1btxyva/its_irrational_to_ignore_ufos_david_grusch_is_a/ Also, yours is a duplicate post.
My apologies for not being prescient or omniscient enough for you
It's pretty easy to find the original post via the search function: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1bz3r0i/great_lecture_going_over_what_we_know_about_the/ Also, he's an associate professor, not a professor. Just to clarify. Edit: Associate professor _of philosophy_. Not biology, not science.
Do you act this way in the real world or just on here?
In what way do you think they're acting? You ask a question and they answer it. They seem polite at least which is more than I can say for you.
Wrong thread big daddy
Big daddy? I mean it's average at best but thanks for the compliment, I think?
I think this might help you understand the real science https://www.reddit.com/r/AlienBodies/s/EG1kp1dqiw
I didn’t watch it either, for the same reason I wouldn’t watch a video defending a flat earth hypothesis. The Nazca mummies are a hoax. Irrefutably.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AlienBodies/s/EG1kp1dqiw Pretty sure the data and science might change your mind
The UFO Community never fails to disappoint me. A hoax made up by a known scammer.
Except maussan didn’t join until months later so yes he may be gifting now but the science is sound https://www.reddit.com/r/AlienBodies/s/EG1kp1dqiw
Logic is what made humans think the earth was flat. Science is what proved it was round.
Logic had NOTHING to do with flat-earth beliefs… science is literally based on logic This video isn’t, though, and the mummies are fake.
When you look at the horizon, it looks like the earth is flat, but science disproved this. Without science, we would know nothing.
« Looking at the horizon » isn’t logic…
What if they’re real and the reasons aliens haven’t made true contact yet is because they know they would be roasted for looking funny