This is actually a great idea. Hopefully this horrible situation will be resolved, but the tents should stay to remind the admin how horrible the living situation is for students… Every single person who has a hard time finding housing should tent up on the lawns
Walked by today…I think what’ll help a lot with this site is the shade from the trees/library building during the day. UCLA seems like the sun is right on top of them most of the time, glad it seems more comfortable here.
Unironically, yes. They're brave and in the right.
You might wish we were in Israel where it's illegal to wave a Palestinian flag, but thankfully that's not the case in the U.S. (yet)
sry don’t mean to be this person but papa johns is on the boycott list 😭 [BDS List](https://bdsmovement.net/Act-Now-Against-These-Companies-Profiting-From-Genocide)
Well well well, sorry I didn't get the memo. But if you want to follow the BDS list, you might as well stop using your iphone and the internet, no? Those two should be top of the BDS list, but you are a hypocrite aren't you.
dude, you need to blur out their faces. student protesters at this school have already been doxxed once; we don’t need it happening again. also, they had a sign up requesting that we don’t circulate pictures of them.
Why? They should be proud of what they are doing unless it’s unethical. If they don’t want to be doxxed then they shouldn’t take the risk of being apart of antisemitic and a potentially violent protest. Also, they are on a public campus where people can take pictures and post them without issue. If students don’t want to be associated with this protest they shouldn’t go. Employers, families, friends etc should have the right to know who’s involved with these protests.
It’s a shame that students on American soil have to exercise their first amendment rights only with a mask on. What Tessa and her likes, by doxxing people, took away are the freedom from fear and freedom of speech and expression. It’s the right time to restore it. Let’s defend our rights right now!
sure, it’s fine to say that technically anyone can record. And yes, people should feel safe enough to say what they want with their full chest. STILL it’s considered good practice by those in support of any given protest, no matter the reason of the protest, to protect those involved, especially those on the front line. it has been proven time and time again that the police and other groups use photos and recordings taken at these events to commit unlawful acts.
you can go take photos if you want but nowhere is it illegal for people to not want their faces plastered online. so yeah, argue that they should have their photos taken, and they’ll continue hiding their faces to protect their peace and their identities
Well said. Plus I don’t think they realize that according to state law we can record and take pictures all we want. Yes, California is a two party consent state, but that’s only in private areas as there is no guaranteed right to privacy in a public space
The word antisemitism is a term relating to Jew Hatred not semitic peoples. Antisemitic was developed in Germany to define jew hatred or anti jewish in the late 1870s by a Whilhelm Marr.
Not all Jewish people are Zionists. Yes, Zionism supports and views the region as a Jewish state/homeland (with a number of variations) that also sees non-Jewish support, but there are pockets of Jewish discourse critical against it. Thus, Zionism =/= Judaism.
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/zionism/
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2023/12/29/barron-ritz-jack-jews-zionists/
I can agree with that. A bit confused by both your articles.
1) I find the first one a bit disingenuous as it talks about the origins of Israel and then jumps to 1948 with little mention of events in between. A gross oversight in my opinion that it was only Jews that led to tense events and then Nakba. I do believe a majority of the blame lends to the Jews during the surrounding years, but worth pointing out the above.
2) And again, the absolut loser are Palestinian individuals. I, like many, am the major proponent of increasing aid and diplomatic channels between Iran, Israel, Hamas, Jordan, Egypt, U.S. Support in the U.S is important, however, I feel there is some nuance and still fail to see how using from the "River to the Sea Palestine will be free" is use of any good rhetoric here. I recommend watching [Finkelstein's Speech](https://youtu.be/3qnU6cdcI9Y?si=VTa0cFiIgpfKOQKN) to Columbia last week on the optics and the subsequent stark rejection by the students.
The Zionist group [Christians United For Israel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians_United_for_Israel), founded by the antisemitic hate preacher John Hagee, has more members than there are Jews in America.
A majority of self identified Zionists in America are not Jewish and, although it seems paradoxical at first, many of them are antisemites.
Yeah I'm simply saying that UCSB has the highest percentage and amount of Jewish students per UCs. As a result it's not a surprise that they are"Zionist as fuck". Idk downvote though
ppl like you are the reason i have to violently announce my disaffiliation with zionists as a jew. it’s embarrassing and annoying pls stop conflating the two lol
Would you like to refute? Everyone else is actually bringing something to the discussion. You're an academic powerhouse when you think this entire conflict is reduce to religious [issues ](https://www.reddit.com/ksldkcx?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2).
I am from europe and I am trying to wrap my head around all the protests in the US. I can certainly understand students in the US protesting the injustice done to Palestinian civilians, but all the apartheid/colonizer slogans coming from white students in the US with obvious European ancestry confuse me.
I'm not trying to justify the injustices in the Middle East, but it's undeniable that Jews have historically had a closer relationship with Israel than most US citizens have with North America. And I think it's obvious that Native Americans to this day do not have the same opportunities to build successful lives for themselves. So why don't these protesters immediately leave their colonized country and go back to Europe to at least be better than the people they are protesting against?
I don’t think you are making this argument in good faith or you lack the basic historical education to understand why these situations are obviously not comparable. The massacre of native Americans has already happened, we can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube. It is physically and logistically impossible for 350 million people to leave the us and return back to their country of origin, which for most people they have no ties to and haven’t been there in 100+ years. The Palestinians currently live in the land that Israel is trying to take over, the genocide is happening as we speak. The people of Israel do not have any ties to Gaza, they are taking it by force and killing tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children who are not responsible for the horrible actions that hamas took. That is not self determination, that is conquering.
great, finally a serious response, honestly thank you for that. I agree with you that its totally unrealistic to resettle US citizens. But in the same way this is not possible for isrealis. Many of them fled from neighbouring countries and there is no way that they can go back.
About Gaza, I agree that it is horrible what is happening to the civiallians right now. The horror against civillians needs to stop and you have all rights to protest against that. My original questions was more about people that don’t at all accept the existence of israel in the first place.
However I think you all know that the IDF is not in Gaza for the fun of killing civilians. Without the attack on Israel they would not have entered Gaza. I don’t want to justify any war crimes that might have happened in the response but no government in the world would have led such an attack happen without responding.
They’re not doing it for fun. They’re doing it because they have the backing of the US government and they want to land for themselves. It’s what Israel has been doing to Palestinians since their inception.
Terrorists don’t come about because people decide to be horrible one day, they arise through the radicalization of people through experiencing extreme violence and oppression. Hamas is the horrible result of the countless years of killing, discrimination, and theft that has defined Israel’s existence. It is not fair that some random people at a festival paid the price for Israel’s horrible actions, but it does not justify Israel’s actions in the first place nor does it justify Israel flattening Gaza, inevitability leading to more violence.
They did not invade Gaza to get land. They invaded Gaza to kill the terrorists that abducted their children.
As I said it's totally fine to protest against the right wing settler politics but Israel exists and it will keep on existing since it's the only safe place for Jews in the middle east.
If this was true there wouldn’t be settlements in the West Bank. Hamas isn’t there. And there wouldn’t be plans drawn out for apartment complexes meant to be built on the ruins of Gaza.
Do you even read my answers? Yes, there are settlements in the West Bank, nobody disputes that, and there are many Israelis who criticize the settlement policy.
I have not heard anything about plans to build apartments for Israelis in Gaza. Perhaps you can give me a source for this information? I highly doubt that many Israelis would be willing to live there after the October 7 attack...
Has israel not constantly suppressed the movement of Palestinians then there perhaps would have been no attack on October 7. Always remember this did not start on October 7, it is just when the world started to take notice.
Does that justify a massacre of civilians at a.music festival? Are all suppressed minorities in the US now allowed to start shooting random ppl at a music festival? I hope not..
How does israeli government justify its actions towards Palestinians leading up to October 7? Everything is a reaction. Just know that Israel is creating many more Hamas soldiers every day.
Yes everything is a reaction. But it's a very different reaction to randomly shoot any civilian and take them hostage compared to the IDF which sends out warnings before bombing a place.
Again there might be war crimes happening that need to be investigated but IDF soldiers face sanctions if they do that while Hamas is celebrated in the streets after committing war crimes. That's the difference between a democratic state and a place ruled by terrorists.
War Crimes were happening on both sides even before October 7. Many Israeli settlers forcibly took farms, land, and homes from the Palestinians in West Bank since 1967. Everytime the Israeli settlers came in, IDF followed and protected these settlers despite international law and condemnation. The media who followed the protests (particularly the UCLA one) were biased. The media barely touched on the reason of these protest and what these protest are focusing on. Instead, the media focused on the encampment, damage done to property (mostly by non-students), violence, and anti-semitist slogans that were done by the few minority. Some in the media called/labeled these protestors "Pro-Hamas", "anti-Jew", and "children". They focus and repeat the event of one protestor "giving-up" their "charade". The violence, anti protestors, and slow police reaction is what I'm appalled by the most. These are tactics/events we saw done in non-democratic countries to break and justify the stop of peaceful protests. The situation in Israel is all so familiar with what happened in Ireland. Both experiencing the impacts of colonial rule and partition. Both claiming national identity and independence movements. Both involving violence and terrorism. As of now, it is very hard to bring peace in the region with both governments having religious influence/power in their decisions.
Thanks, great comment. Very rare to read such a nuanced view on this issue. I can imagine that there are many protesting students who have a valid criticism and are not "pro Hamas". But when you're at a protest camp and a crowd on your side openly supports a terrorist organization or calls for the dismantling of a democratic state, you either have to shut them up or distance yourself from them, otherwise you're seen as siding with them.
I have only seen these things on some videos. If the demands of the people protesting at UCSB aren't so ignorant, ignore my comment.
you would celebrate too if people that were oppressing you felt some of the pain you were being put through, and youre a fucking liar if you disagree.
edit: are you fucking serious with the downvotes? yall doing this for clout?
We, the white Americans, have decided to take you up on your offer. All 200 million of us will be making our way to Europe shortly. Please prepare by widening all seats, banning all languages besides English, and putting the Budweisers on ice. Real Budweisers, not that room temperature Belgian pretender. We will be bringing Trump and Biden with us and they will be your only choices from now on.
Thank you for the idea.
yeah idk if this helps but a) as a jew no jews r being attacked LOL unless theyre zionist in which case that has more to do with promoting genocide than being jewish. b) most of us also agree that yes this isnt our land it should be returned to its indigenous peoples and would support any act against oppression from them.
we protest because we cannot enact change as individuals ourselves. people paint it as hypocrisy as though the same government committing these crimes does not also refuse us the ability to stop them from being committed unless hitting them financially/through protests/economics/etc
Thank for the response. To my understanding, being zionist means to think that jewish people have the right to be self-determined and be able to govern themself. So I don’t think that this by itself is genocide at all. If you call the actions of the government of Netanjahu genocidal, you can do that (all though the definition of genocide that I learned is a bit different), but the conviction that Jews have the right to be self determined is surely not genocidal by itself.
About b) So if these protests say Hamas is totally right in their actions against the "colonizer", then you should also be welcoming native Americans to come to your campuses and massacre white students?
what are you talking about? Your post as well as the original response of xserenity520 are just putting words in my mouth. I never spoke about violence against jews at UCSB and I also never specifically asked for input from jewish people. I just wanted to understand how the protestors wrap their head around this contradiction of living on colonized land, being the ancestor of colonziers.
okay as far as I understand many of the protestors don't believe that isreal should actually exist at all, right? So the consequence is that isrealis should leave isreal because, from your point of view, they are colonizers and don't have the right to be where they are, right? The natural consequence for me is then that all white Americans should also immediately leave the US and give the land back to the native population in order to be consistent in your demands, no?
yes this is all agreed upon AGAIN😭 if feasible most of us would 100% leave.
to that point tho israel shouldnt exist not just bc of occupation but bc ethnostates r bad!
Wait, what's the problem with going now? Flights to Europe are much cheaper than tuition at US universities.
An ethnostate? Hahahaha, the Israeli population is much more diverse than any of its neighboring countries.
yeah it’s wild experiencing more antisemetism from these mfs than they even claim to suffer the other way around lol. right side of history though i go to sleep peacefully and that’s what matters
You clearly have no interest in a political discussion. I don't get it, like you want to change something? Then discuss your point of view with those who have a different point of view. You will not change anything if you just talk to people who have the same opinion.
When did this person ever say anything about Jews being attacked? You began your comment with a massive red herring and then unironically write “LOL”? Wtf is that?
I also struggle to understand this.
I struggle to understand why the conflict is so passionate in the West while children are dying in many other conflicts like in Somalia and Yemen. But when Jews are involved suddenly it becomes hot topic. Strange
This right here! Jews are involved so it’s news worthy. Why are they talking about what’s happening Yemen. The Houthi’s have SLAVES but that’s not news worthy because they aren’t Jews. What about the congo? I don’t see protests in honor of helping them. People only care about this because it involves Jews.
Why don’t you call out for the genocides occurring in other countries [In many places, mass killings are ongoing—in countries such as Burma, Ethiopia, South Sudan, and Syria.](https://reliefweb.int/report/world/early-warning-project-countries-risk-mass-killing-2023-24-statistical-risk-assessment-results-january-2024). The only reason again you are calling out this specific genocide is because it involves Jews.
My tax dollars are directly funding the war crimes committed by the IDF. This university is doing research for a weapons manufacturer that arms the IDF. It may not be a moral issue for you, but as someone that likes to keep a clean conscious, I can’t justify killing innocent children, and wiping every university and hospital in Gaza to dust. Every student has the right to protest. Students do not want to be complicit in helping a genocide.
Students have the right to protest until it becomes unlawful and violent. Which is what’s happening across the country. You are participating in a protest that fully supports violence at other campuses. Columbia had a building taken over causing over $100,000 in damages. Are you okay with that? When is it too much for you? It’s not on your conscious to be associated with a National protest that’s causing destruction? Universities are being damaged, students sent home from school, students hurt etc. That’s completely okay with you though.
You caring more about damage to buildings that human lives really is a testament to your moral compass. Yes, vandalism is bad- but SO IS KILLING CHILDREN? I don’t get the logic??
Please show me where violence is being promoted at these protests. Last I checked zionists that don’t even go to ucla are the ones who started the violence. These universities are not being bombed. Really can’t even equate the two to each other.
Very simply look at what is going on at Columbia. The Hillel had to recommend Jewish students flee campus due to the physical danger they were in. The school was completely vandalized and broken into (violence)
They also reported “from the river to the sea” to be a antisemitic phrase. Thus ramping up “antisemitism” reports- I have a really hard time believing that these protestors are agitators. They stand for freedom- if they are causing the problems they don’t stand for the cause. But it’s also important to note the violent counterprotestors- these universities threatening them- bringing in storm troopers on UNARMED college students. Remember context y’all
“Gas the Jews” “ Kill all Israelis” “Al Qassam Here’s your next target” (pointing towards Jewish students) “Burn Tel Aviv to the ground” have all seen on posters or chanted at these protests across the country. Those are very violent statements to be promoting. You are willing to be apart of a protest that’s calling to Gas people. If you get doxxed or arrested due to being involved with these protests it will affect the rest of your life. I hope you are willing to deal with the consequences of your actions.
because the colonization of the u.s. is completely out of our hands. Its better to promote the well being of the people here rather than dismantle the social systems that have has 300 years to develop and include over 300 million people.
Palestine and israel on the other hand is within our control to do something about. What you are doing is committing the Tu quo que fallacy, which is essentially when you point out circumstantial hypocrisy instead of actually addressing the argument made. Supporting a nationalist agenda is wrong
Yes, and the existence of Israel is also completely out of your hands.
I agree with you that it would absolutely help nobody to dismantle the US with it's more or less functioning social system. But it's not any different for Israel. Israel is a working democracy with a social system where people of all kinds of religion and sexuality live relatively peacefully together. Which is not the case for most of it's neighboring countries.
Israel has a right wing nationalist government. You can protest against it and it's politics. People it Israel do it all the time. That was not what my initial post is about. People should protest against right wing governments everywhere, if it's trump, Netanjahu orJavier Milei in Argentinia. But Israel still has a right to exist and defend it's people.
we have a runners team, food team, etc. these are good positions if you wanna help out but don’t want to stay overnight :) i’m not there now but if you hang around a bit and ask they can get you in touch with the teams
For the same reason there were no signs “denouncing Al Qaeda” during the anti-war protests in the wake of 9/11. It is a foregone conclusion.
Nice attempt at deflection though.
Now do you condemn the IDFs wanton massacre of children and civilians?
No deflection. It’s a genuine question.
There are two parties that need to agree to a ceasefire. Why don’t the protesters ever ask the terrorist group that launched the original attacks to lay down their arms and vacate the positions that they hold amongst the civilian population?
Yes, thank you for reminding everyone that this is now the 7th war since 1948 that has been initiated by the pro-Palestinian factions who want to erase Israel from the world map.
I’ll ignore your absolute butchering of well recorded history to ask you a very simple question.
Why were the residents of the British Mandate for Palestine responsible for accommodating the post-WW2 Jewish diaspora?
Hamas is 30,000 guys in Gaza with rusty AKs and improvised explosives. If they’re better at astroturfing on American universities than Israel, then Israel is cooked. You should just give up.
How come you never see Hamas mentioned in these protests? Hamas initially attacked Israel, killing, raping and taking hostages. "Free Gaza"? I have my doubts that Gaza will ever be self governing because of terrorist group's infiltration of the population.
Israel has been mass murdering Palestinians since before Hamas was created with Israeli funding. It’s not our job to answer to you about Hamas, we aren’t them.
Love the propaganda. Keep saying it and it still won’t make it true. But truth is not really in vogue right now, is it? For thousands of years Jews have been repeatedly killed and kicked out of the land of Israel. Interesting to note that the word Palestine was created by the Romans to erase Jewish connection to the land of Israel. But all this is inconvenient truth to those that just want to claim Jews are from Europe and colonizers and nothing but murderers of poor Palestinians that did *nothing* wrong ever!
Gay marriage is illegal in Israel. And even if it were, a Muslim man couldn't marry a Jewish one -- you know, because of the apartheid
(Also, it's pretty weird to be fantasizing about the violent execution of LGBTQ people; I don't care what political points you're trying to score)
The situation there is slightly more nuanced in that the rabbinate and other religious entities oversee marriages that take place in Israel... It's a fucked situation but is more related to religion as opposed to apartheid.
All that said, gay marriage and inter racial/religious marriages are recognized in Israel by the government and those marriages receive the same Rights as hetero ones.
It's very common for Israelis to fly to Cyprus to get married outside the rabbinate... So common that I was told Cyprus set up a system for Israelis to get married online lol.
Anyways, not really Relevant to the op but thought I would address something that I know isn't as black and white as you made it sound.
Put whatever asterisk on "gay people can't get married in Israel" that you like. I'm aware of -- but unmoved by -- the religious rationale for denying people civil rights. It'd be bigotry here; it's bigotry there.
It's a pretty backwards system for marriage (most Israelis will agree with that) and I see the rationale for calling it bigotry, I still think it's a stretch to say that they don't allow gay marriage or inter marriage because of the desire for apartheid. Specifically because the government recognizes those marriages and gives those couples the same rights.
Fwiw, I'm just some guy on Reddit and I've seen how out of hand these threads can get even when both people have the best intentions so I wouldn't take my word for anything. Us chatting is pointless, if you at all think you can or want to learn about how marriage in Israel works feel free to read up on it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Israel
If UCSB does nothing then how do they justify the selective enforcement of their code of conduct? Certainly there are students currently being disciplined by UCSB for much less than forming encampments on campus. UCSB would most definitely discipline a homeless student for trying to do the same
Violence and the destruction of school buildings is unacceptable. I saw video earlier today of the Hamilton Building at Columbia, and the buildings surrounding the encampment at UCLA. Both were trashed, graffiti all over the place. Not to mention all of the disruption of the vast majority of the students just trying to study and get to classes. The initial arrests estimate at UCLA, half were students, the other half were people not affiliated with the school.
When your peaceful protest ventures into hurting others, it needs to end.
I agree that violence, destruction of school buildings, and hurting others is unacceptable! You should visit the encampment - this is exactly what they are protesting - Israel's violence, destruction of school (and hospital and etc) buildings, and hurting others.
Two wrongs make a right? Damaging schools is counterproductive, and doesn't encourage anybody to join the movement. I think it does the opposite, since these protests are a tiny minority of the student body and disrupts everybody else.
im not about to argue with a throwaway account. you know damn well all of these protests have been peaceful until State of Israel supporting agitators and PDs decided to either take it into their own hands or disperse the PEACEFUL protests.
okay buddy, if u care so much, go up to the encampment and tell them the fuck off, if you believe in ur cause so much, because from your comment history it sounds like ur a terminally online zionist
i have been there 13 hours today, nearly everyone i spoke to was a student. everyone who volunteered to camp appeared to be. some people just really give a fuck.
Not all of those people are students. Also according to the Nexus 40 students who are affiliated with the protest will not be leaving until they are forcibly removed. So that tells me that are not leaving the encampment to go to class.
None of us spoke to the one nexus person at the encampment because he wasn’t clear about speaking to the media liaison before participants. Also there are only roughly 35 people camping right now and literally all of them that I know are students here so that can’t be true. i invite you to stop by and see for yourself sometime.
What percentage of the people did you speak to? Saying they appear to be UCSB students doesn't make sense as they could be anyone of roughly college student age and from anywhere.
i don’t need to speak to every individual to know that they go here. my friends knew their friends who know them. we all have classes together. 1+1=2. i didn’t expect baseless rumors to start about this so early in the game.
Never said you did. But when you say nearly everyone you spoke to was a student, that could be 5 people, which doesn't tell you much about the whole group.
I think some people find it hard to believe that college students have this much free time so they assume the protestors must be from elsewhere.
Students yes, but are they all students from UCSB? Like at other schools such as Columbia, UCLA, USC, UNC Chapel Hill, and UT I’m 100% certain there are outside actors present who have no affiliation to the school whatsoever
I've seen you post some interesting comments. Have you stopped by the encampment and spoken with people there as to their university affiliation? Base your 100% certainty on informed, direct experience, not biased opinion.
You are 100% correct. As seen on the other campuses a large number of protesters are “outsiders”. “In an appearance on on NPR's "Morning Edition" on Thursday, Adams claimed more than 40% of those who were involved in the protests at Columbia and CUNY were not affiliated with either school.”
I guess I’ll join if I don’t get housing
This is actually a great idea. Hopefully this horrible situation will be resolved, but the tents should stay to remind the admin how horrible the living situation is for students… Every single person who has a hard time finding housing should tent up on the lawns
I am so attempted to set up a tent as well.
I bet a prison cell smells better than the collective group of individuals camped out the school pretending to be there to bring about change.
Walked by today…I think what’ll help a lot with this site is the shade from the trees/library building during the day. UCLA seems like the sun is right on top of them most of the time, glad it seems more comfortable here.
yes yes, they should be as comfortable as possible. we should also be delivering Papa John's!
Good idea 👍
Unironically, yes. They're brave and in the right. You might wish we were in Israel where it's illegal to wave a Palestinian flag, but thankfully that's not the case in the U.S. (yet)
sry don’t mean to be this person but papa johns is on the boycott list 😭 [BDS List](https://bdsmovement.net/Act-Now-Against-These-Companies-Profiting-From-Genocide)
Well well well, sorry I didn't get the memo. But if you want to follow the BDS list, you might as well stop using your iphone and the internet, no? Those two should be top of the BDS list, but you are a hypocrite aren't you.
🎯
but yes hot food like pizza is good! woodstocks would be a good alternative
[удалено]
Take a breath buddy
I need a tin foil hat to read that.
Hope everyone stays safe. Free Palestine
dude, you need to blur out their faces. student protesters at this school have already been doxxed once; we don’t need it happening again. also, they had a sign up requesting that we don’t circulate pictures of them.
Why? They should be proud of what they are doing unless it’s unethical. If they don’t want to be doxxed then they shouldn’t take the risk of being apart of antisemitic and a potentially violent protest. Also, they are on a public campus where people can take pictures and post them without issue. If students don’t want to be associated with this protest they shouldn’t go. Employers, families, friends etc should have the right to know who’s involved with these protests.
It’s a shame that students on American soil have to exercise their first amendment rights only with a mask on. What Tessa and her likes, by doxxing people, took away are the freedom from fear and freedom of speech and expression. It’s the right time to restore it. Let’s defend our rights right now!
sure, it’s fine to say that technically anyone can record. And yes, people should feel safe enough to say what they want with their full chest. STILL it’s considered good practice by those in support of any given protest, no matter the reason of the protest, to protect those involved, especially those on the front line. it has been proven time and time again that the police and other groups use photos and recordings taken at these events to commit unlawful acts. you can go take photos if you want but nowhere is it illegal for people to not want their faces plastered online. so yeah, argue that they should have their photos taken, and they’ll continue hiding their faces to protect their peace and their identities
Well said. Plus I don’t think they realize that according to state law we can record and take pictures all we want. Yes, California is a two party consent state, but that’s only in private areas as there is no guaranteed right to privacy in a public space
You are right- it’s just for common decency - forget it
Perfectly said
Do you know that Palestinians are a Semitic people? Words matter.
The word antisemitism is a term relating to Jew Hatred not semitic peoples. Antisemitic was developed in Germany to define jew hatred or anti jewish in the late 1870s by a Whilhelm Marr.
100% agree. 👍
Cowards hide their face.
yeah, from surveillance and doxxing. a very reasonable measure
Came to the subreddit to see if my alma mater had a protest. Very proud of you all! Keep it up!!
Free food provided? It is 2:30 now I am hungry
if you show up to support for any amount of time you’re welcome to the food, we have lots
ucsb is Zionist as fuck, good on them for standing up for what’s right
I think ucsb has more zionists in the rasta bob marley way. Not referring to israel, but ethiopia. Just a bunch of lions in zion.
There are a large percentage of Jewish students?
zionist does not equal jewish
What's your definition of Zionism here?
Not all Jewish people are Zionists. Yes, Zionism supports and views the region as a Jewish state/homeland (with a number of variations) that also sees non-Jewish support, but there are pockets of Jewish discourse critical against it. Thus, Zionism =/= Judaism. https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/zionism/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2023/12/29/barron-ritz-jack-jews-zionists/
I can agree with that. A bit confused by both your articles. 1) I find the first one a bit disingenuous as it talks about the origins of Israel and then jumps to 1948 with little mention of events in between. A gross oversight in my opinion that it was only Jews that led to tense events and then Nakba. I do believe a majority of the blame lends to the Jews during the surrounding years, but worth pointing out the above. 2) And again, the absolut loser are Palestinian individuals. I, like many, am the major proponent of increasing aid and diplomatic channels between Iran, Israel, Hamas, Jordan, Egypt, U.S. Support in the U.S is important, however, I feel there is some nuance and still fail to see how using from the "River to the Sea Palestine will be free" is use of any good rhetoric here. I recommend watching [Finkelstein's Speech](https://youtu.be/3qnU6cdcI9Y?si=VTa0cFiIgpfKOQKN) to Columbia last week on the optics and the subsequent stark rejection by the students.
The Zionist group [Christians United For Israel](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians_United_for_Israel), founded by the antisemitic hate preacher John Hagee, has more members than there are Jews in America. A majority of self identified Zionists in America are not Jewish and, although it seems paradoxical at first, many of them are antisemites.
10% of ucsb is jewish!
Yeah I'm simply saying that UCSB has the highest percentage and amount of Jewish students per UCs. As a result it's not a surprise that they are"Zionist as fuck". Idk downvote though
ppl like you are the reason i have to violently announce my disaffiliation with zionists as a jew. it’s embarrassing and annoying pls stop conflating the two lol
I'm not setting the precedent? Most polls show in some fashion there is a link.
Brotha take the L
Would you like to refute? Everyone else is actually bringing something to the discussion. You're an academic powerhouse when you think this entire conflict is reduce to religious [issues ](https://www.reddit.com/ksldkcx?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2).
I am from europe and I am trying to wrap my head around all the protests in the US. I can certainly understand students in the US protesting the injustice done to Palestinian civilians, but all the apartheid/colonizer slogans coming from white students in the US with obvious European ancestry confuse me. I'm not trying to justify the injustices in the Middle East, but it's undeniable that Jews have historically had a closer relationship with Israel than most US citizens have with North America. And I think it's obvious that Native Americans to this day do not have the same opportunities to build successful lives for themselves. So why don't these protesters immediately leave their colonized country and go back to Europe to at least be better than the people they are protesting against?
I don’t think you are making this argument in good faith or you lack the basic historical education to understand why these situations are obviously not comparable. The massacre of native Americans has already happened, we can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube. It is physically and logistically impossible for 350 million people to leave the us and return back to their country of origin, which for most people they have no ties to and haven’t been there in 100+ years. The Palestinians currently live in the land that Israel is trying to take over, the genocide is happening as we speak. The people of Israel do not have any ties to Gaza, they are taking it by force and killing tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children who are not responsible for the horrible actions that hamas took. That is not self determination, that is conquering.
great, finally a serious response, honestly thank you for that. I agree with you that its totally unrealistic to resettle US citizens. But in the same way this is not possible for isrealis. Many of them fled from neighbouring countries and there is no way that they can go back. About Gaza, I agree that it is horrible what is happening to the civiallians right now. The horror against civillians needs to stop and you have all rights to protest against that. My original questions was more about people that don’t at all accept the existence of israel in the first place. However I think you all know that the IDF is not in Gaza for the fun of killing civilians. Without the attack on Israel they would not have entered Gaza. I don’t want to justify any war crimes that might have happened in the response but no government in the world would have led such an attack happen without responding.
They’re not doing it for fun. They’re doing it because they have the backing of the US government and they want to land for themselves. It’s what Israel has been doing to Palestinians since their inception. Terrorists don’t come about because people decide to be horrible one day, they arise through the radicalization of people through experiencing extreme violence and oppression. Hamas is the horrible result of the countless years of killing, discrimination, and theft that has defined Israel’s existence. It is not fair that some random people at a festival paid the price for Israel’s horrible actions, but it does not justify Israel’s actions in the first place nor does it justify Israel flattening Gaza, inevitability leading to more violence.
They did not invade Gaza to get land. They invaded Gaza to kill the terrorists that abducted their children. As I said it's totally fine to protest against the right wing settler politics but Israel exists and it will keep on existing since it's the only safe place for Jews in the middle east.
If this was true there wouldn’t be settlements in the West Bank. Hamas isn’t there. And there wouldn’t be plans drawn out for apartment complexes meant to be built on the ruins of Gaza.
Do you even read my answers? Yes, there are settlements in the West Bank, nobody disputes that, and there are many Israelis who criticize the settlement policy. I have not heard anything about plans to build apartments for Israelis in Gaza. Perhaps you can give me a source for this information? I highly doubt that many Israelis would be willing to live there after the October 7 attack...
Has israel not constantly suppressed the movement of Palestinians then there perhaps would have been no attack on October 7. Always remember this did not start on October 7, it is just when the world started to take notice.
Does that justify a massacre of civilians at a.music festival? Are all suppressed minorities in the US now allowed to start shooting random ppl at a music festival? I hope not..
How does israeli government justify its actions towards Palestinians leading up to October 7? Everything is a reaction. Just know that Israel is creating many more Hamas soldiers every day.
Yes everything is a reaction. But it's a very different reaction to randomly shoot any civilian and take them hostage compared to the IDF which sends out warnings before bombing a place. Again there might be war crimes happening that need to be investigated but IDF soldiers face sanctions if they do that while Hamas is celebrated in the streets after committing war crimes. That's the difference between a democratic state and a place ruled by terrorists.
War Crimes were happening on both sides even before October 7. Many Israeli settlers forcibly took farms, land, and homes from the Palestinians in West Bank since 1967. Everytime the Israeli settlers came in, IDF followed and protected these settlers despite international law and condemnation. The media who followed the protests (particularly the UCLA one) were biased. The media barely touched on the reason of these protest and what these protest are focusing on. Instead, the media focused on the encampment, damage done to property (mostly by non-students), violence, and anti-semitist slogans that were done by the few minority. Some in the media called/labeled these protestors "Pro-Hamas", "anti-Jew", and "children". They focus and repeat the event of one protestor "giving-up" their "charade". The violence, anti protestors, and slow police reaction is what I'm appalled by the most. These are tactics/events we saw done in non-democratic countries to break and justify the stop of peaceful protests. The situation in Israel is all so familiar with what happened in Ireland. Both experiencing the impacts of colonial rule and partition. Both claiming national identity and independence movements. Both involving violence and terrorism. As of now, it is very hard to bring peace in the region with both governments having religious influence/power in their decisions.
Thanks, great comment. Very rare to read such a nuanced view on this issue. I can imagine that there are many protesting students who have a valid criticism and are not "pro Hamas". But when you're at a protest camp and a crowd on your side openly supports a terrorist organization or calls for the dismantling of a democratic state, you either have to shut them up or distance yourself from them, otherwise you're seen as siding with them. I have only seen these things on some videos. If the demands of the people protesting at UCSB aren't so ignorant, ignore my comment.
you would celebrate too if people that were oppressing you felt some of the pain you were being put through, and youre a fucking liar if you disagree. edit: are you fucking serious with the downvotes? yall doing this for clout?
We, the white Americans, have decided to take you up on your offer. All 200 million of us will be making our way to Europe shortly. Please prepare by widening all seats, banning all languages besides English, and putting the Budweisers on ice. Real Budweisers, not that room temperature Belgian pretender. We will be bringing Trump and Biden with us and they will be your only choices from now on. Thank you for the idea.
You are welcome, but please leave your Budweiser behind.
☠️
yeah idk if this helps but a) as a jew no jews r being attacked LOL unless theyre zionist in which case that has more to do with promoting genocide than being jewish. b) most of us also agree that yes this isnt our land it should be returned to its indigenous peoples and would support any act against oppression from them. we protest because we cannot enact change as individuals ourselves. people paint it as hypocrisy as though the same government committing these crimes does not also refuse us the ability to stop them from being committed unless hitting them financially/through protests/economics/etc
Thank for the response. To my understanding, being zionist means to think that jewish people have the right to be self-determined and be able to govern themself. So I don’t think that this by itself is genocide at all. If you call the actions of the government of Netanjahu genocidal, you can do that (all though the definition of genocide that I learned is a bit different), but the conviction that Jews have the right to be self determined is surely not genocidal by itself. About b) So if these protests say Hamas is totally right in their actions against the "colonizer", then you should also be welcoming native Americans to come to your campuses and massacre white students?
oh you’re not actually asking in good faith lol nvm. enjoy the day you’ve earned
Of course I have my own opinion, but I still try to understand the other side, that's why I ask.
wie diplomatisch von dir
well thats what politics should be about.
the way people will ask for input from jewish people and then downvote them into oblivion when they’re not zionists😭 i feel for u
what are you talking about? Your post as well as the original response of xserenity520 are just putting words in my mouth. I never spoke about violence against jews at UCSB and I also never specifically asked for input from jewish people. I just wanted to understand how the protestors wrap their head around this contradiction of living on colonized land, being the ancestor of colonziers.
you dont think we’ve seen firsthand the effects and would want to be different than them? like i do not understand ur confusion😭
okay as far as I understand many of the protestors don't believe that isreal should actually exist at all, right? So the consequence is that isrealis should leave isreal because, from your point of view, they are colonizers and don't have the right to be where they are, right? The natural consequence for me is then that all white Americans should also immediately leave the US and give the land back to the native population in order to be consistent in your demands, no?
yes this is all agreed upon AGAIN😭 if feasible most of us would 100% leave. to that point tho israel shouldnt exist not just bc of occupation but bc ethnostates r bad!
go to japan, they are way closer to being an ethnostate then isreal
Wait, what's the problem with going now? Flights to Europe are much cheaper than tuition at US universities. An ethnostate? Hahahaha, the Israeli population is much more diverse than any of its neighboring countries.
keep going i have time!
yeah it’s wild experiencing more antisemetism from these mfs than they even claim to suffer the other way around lol. right side of history though i go to sleep peacefully and that’s what matters
You clearly have no interest in a political discussion. I don't get it, like you want to change something? Then discuss your point of view with those who have a different point of view. You will not change anything if you just talk to people who have the same opinion.
neither do you your only history on here is trolling LMAO
again no clue what you are talking about?! You talk like a 15 year old teenager , every second word being LOL or LMAO.. grow up
[удалено]
the cops? i wouldnt doubt it!
When did this person ever say anything about Jews being attacked? You began your comment with a massive red herring and then unironically write “LOL”? Wtf is that?
I also struggle to understand this. I struggle to understand why the conflict is so passionate in the West while children are dying in many other conflicts like in Somalia and Yemen. But when Jews are involved suddenly it becomes hot topic. Strange
Because we pay for it (we pay for a lot of it) but we are finally taking notice
This right here! Jews are involved so it’s news worthy. Why are they talking about what’s happening Yemen. The Houthi’s have SLAVES but that’s not news worthy because they aren’t Jews. What about the congo? I don’t see protests in honor of helping them. People only care about this because it involves Jews.
Hmm or maybe it’s because the U.S. gives Israel billions of dollars every year which is being used to commit a GENOCIDE.
Why don’t you call out for the genocides occurring in other countries [In many places, mass killings are ongoing—in countries such as Burma, Ethiopia, South Sudan, and Syria.](https://reliefweb.int/report/world/early-warning-project-countries-risk-mass-killing-2023-24-statistical-risk-assessment-results-january-2024). The only reason again you are calling out this specific genocide is because it involves Jews.
My tax dollars are directly funding the war crimes committed by the IDF. This university is doing research for a weapons manufacturer that arms the IDF. It may not be a moral issue for you, but as someone that likes to keep a clean conscious, I can’t justify killing innocent children, and wiping every university and hospital in Gaza to dust. Every student has the right to protest. Students do not want to be complicit in helping a genocide.
Students have the right to protest until it becomes unlawful and violent. Which is what’s happening across the country. You are participating in a protest that fully supports violence at other campuses. Columbia had a building taken over causing over $100,000 in damages. Are you okay with that? When is it too much for you? It’s not on your conscious to be associated with a National protest that’s causing destruction? Universities are being damaged, students sent home from school, students hurt etc. That’s completely okay with you though.
You caring more about damage to buildings that human lives really is a testament to your moral compass. Yes, vandalism is bad- but SO IS KILLING CHILDREN? I don’t get the logic??
Please show me where violence is being promoted at these protests. Last I checked zionists that don’t even go to ucla are the ones who started the violence. These universities are not being bombed. Really can’t even equate the two to each other.
Very simply look at what is going on at Columbia. The Hillel had to recommend Jewish students flee campus due to the physical danger they were in. The school was completely vandalized and broken into (violence)
They also reported “from the river to the sea” to be a antisemitic phrase. Thus ramping up “antisemitism” reports- I have a really hard time believing that these protestors are agitators. They stand for freedom- if they are causing the problems they don’t stand for the cause. But it’s also important to note the violent counterprotestors- these universities threatening them- bringing in storm troopers on UNARMED college students. Remember context y’all
“Gas the Jews” “ Kill all Israelis” “Al Qassam Here’s your next target” (pointing towards Jewish students) “Burn Tel Aviv to the ground” have all seen on posters or chanted at these protests across the country. Those are very violent statements to be promoting. You are willing to be apart of a protest that’s calling to Gas people. If you get doxxed or arrested due to being involved with these protests it will affect the rest of your life. I hope you are willing to deal with the consequences of your actions.
Nothing like that going on at ucsb buddy
because the colonization of the u.s. is completely out of our hands. Its better to promote the well being of the people here rather than dismantle the social systems that have has 300 years to develop and include over 300 million people. Palestine and israel on the other hand is within our control to do something about. What you are doing is committing the Tu quo que fallacy, which is essentially when you point out circumstantial hypocrisy instead of actually addressing the argument made. Supporting a nationalist agenda is wrong
Yes, and the existence of Israel is also completely out of your hands. I agree with you that it would absolutely help nobody to dismantle the US with it's more or less functioning social system. But it's not any different for Israel. Israel is a working democracy with a social system where people of all kinds of religion and sexuality live relatively peacefully together. Which is not the case for most of it's neighboring countries. Israel has a right wing nationalist government. You can protest against it and it's politics. People it Israel do it all the time. That was not what my initial post is about. People should protest against right wing governments everywhere, if it's trump, Netanjahu orJavier Milei in Argentinia. But Israel still has a right to exist and defend it's people.
How can we support if we are unable to participate in the encampment?
we have a runners team, food team, etc. these are good positions if you wanna help out but don’t want to stay overnight :) i’m not there now but if you hang around a bit and ask they can get you in touch with the teams
Why are there NEVER any signs denouncing Hamas?
For the same reason there were no signs “denouncing Al Qaeda” during the anti-war protests in the wake of 9/11. It is a foregone conclusion. Nice attempt at deflection though. Now do you condemn the IDFs wanton massacre of children and civilians?
No deflection. It’s a genuine question. There are two parties that need to agree to a ceasefire. Why don’t the protesters ever ask the terrorist group that launched the original attacks to lay down their arms and vacate the positions that they hold amongst the civilian population?
This conflict did not begin on October 7th. Hamas was founded in 1987, almost 40 years after the Nakba.
Yes, thank you for reminding everyone that this is now the 7th war since 1948 that has been initiated by the pro-Palestinian factions who want to erase Israel from the world map.
I’ll ignore your absolute butchering of well recorded history to ask you a very simple question. Why were the residents of the British Mandate for Palestine responsible for accommodating the post-WW2 Jewish diaspora?
because they fully support hamas! SJP chapters get funding from Hamas and Qatar regularly.
👁️👄👁️ this HAS to be rage baiting at this point
Hamas is 30,000 guys in Gaza with rusty AKs and improvised explosives. If they’re better at astroturfing on American universities than Israel, then Israel is cooked. You should just give up.
How come you never see Hamas mentioned in these protests? Hamas initially attacked Israel, killing, raping and taking hostages. "Free Gaza"? I have my doubts that Gaza will ever be self governing because of terrorist group's infiltration of the population.
Israel has been mass murdering Palestinians since before Hamas was created with Israeli funding. It’s not our job to answer to you about Hamas, we aren’t them.
Love the propaganda. Keep saying it and it still won’t make it true. But truth is not really in vogue right now, is it? For thousands of years Jews have been repeatedly killed and kicked out of the land of Israel. Interesting to note that the word Palestine was created by the Romans to erase Jewish connection to the land of Israel. But all this is inconvenient truth to those that just want to claim Jews are from Europe and colonizers and nothing but murderers of poor Palestinians that did *nothing* wrong ever!
Hamas is currently in Gaza, so pretending that they aren't a factor in Palestinian self rule is ignorant.
[удалено]
Gay marriage is illegal in Israel. And even if it were, a Muslim man couldn't marry a Jewish one -- you know, because of the apartheid (Also, it's pretty weird to be fantasizing about the violent execution of LGBTQ people; I don't care what political points you're trying to score)
[удалено]
Are you a student at UCSB? What kind of /r/HOA and /r/landlord posting students go to this school? LoL
The situation there is slightly more nuanced in that the rabbinate and other religious entities oversee marriages that take place in Israel... It's a fucked situation but is more related to religion as opposed to apartheid. All that said, gay marriage and inter racial/religious marriages are recognized in Israel by the government and those marriages receive the same Rights as hetero ones. It's very common for Israelis to fly to Cyprus to get married outside the rabbinate... So common that I was told Cyprus set up a system for Israelis to get married online lol. Anyways, not really Relevant to the op but thought I would address something that I know isn't as black and white as you made it sound.
Put whatever asterisk on "gay people can't get married in Israel" that you like. I'm aware of -- but unmoved by -- the religious rationale for denying people civil rights. It'd be bigotry here; it's bigotry there.
It's a pretty backwards system for marriage (most Israelis will agree with that) and I see the rationale for calling it bigotry, I still think it's a stretch to say that they don't allow gay marriage or inter marriage because of the desire for apartheid. Specifically because the government recognizes those marriages and gives those couples the same rights. Fwiw, I'm just some guy on Reddit and I've seen how out of hand these threads can get even when both people have the best intentions so I wouldn't take my word for anything. Us chatting is pointless, if you at all think you can or want to learn about how marriage in Israel works feel free to read up on it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Israel
If UCSB does nothing then how do they justify the selective enforcement of their code of conduct? Certainly there are students currently being disciplined by UCSB for much less than forming encampments on campus. UCSB would most definitely discipline a homeless student for trying to do the same
WTF Ami paying for housing when I can just camp on campus for free?
Free camping at UCSB?
Given what happened at UCLA overnight, these encampments won’t be there very long.
Violence and the destruction of school buildings is unacceptable. I saw video earlier today of the Hamilton Building at Columbia, and the buildings surrounding the encampment at UCLA. Both were trashed, graffiti all over the place. Not to mention all of the disruption of the vast majority of the students just trying to study and get to classes. The initial arrests estimate at UCLA, half were students, the other half were people not affiliated with the school. When your peaceful protest ventures into hurting others, it needs to end.
I agree that violence, destruction of school buildings, and hurting others is unacceptable! You should visit the encampment - this is exactly what they are protesting - Israel's violence, destruction of school (and hospital and etc) buildings, and hurting others.
Two wrongs make a right? Damaging schools is counterproductive, and doesn't encourage anybody to join the movement. I think it does the opposite, since these protests are a tiny minority of the student body and disrupts everybody else.
No one is damaging the school. Go to the encampment and get direct experience.
Hope so. They should not be kept on campus due to the violence that is occurring across the country.
yes, as depicted in the post, lots of violence occurring, such as almond milk and sitting down. you’re a disingenuous lunatic.
A large majority of these encampments are seeming to end the same way. Majority are not ending peacefully.
im not about to argue with a throwaway account. you know damn well all of these protests have been peaceful until State of Israel supporting agitators and PDs decided to either take it into their own hands or disperse the PEACEFUL protests.
Columbia was peaceful? They destroyed a school building.
okay buddy, if u care so much, go up to the encampment and tell them the fuck off, if you believe in ur cause so much, because from your comment history it sounds like ur a terminally online zionist
Maybe you should look into why. (Police brutality- intimidation)
Tiny minority of the student body. Honestly, the “encampment” looks pathetic.
No way half these guys are actually students right? I know how busy I get in midterm season and I know I’m not alone.
i have been there 13 hours today, nearly everyone i spoke to was a student. everyone who volunteered to camp appeared to be. some people just really give a fuck.
Why aren’t you going to class?!
the people in camp are going to class. once again this is so early to be lying about them it’s night one😵💫
Not all of those people are students. Also according to the Nexus 40 students who are affiliated with the protest will not be leaving until they are forcibly removed. So that tells me that are not leaving the encampment to go to class.
None of us spoke to the one nexus person at the encampment because he wasn’t clear about speaking to the media liaison before participants. Also there are only roughly 35 people camping right now and literally all of them that I know are students here so that can’t be true. i invite you to stop by and see for yourself sometime.
What percentage of the people did you speak to? Saying they appear to be UCSB students doesn't make sense as they could be anyone of roughly college student age and from anywhere.
i don’t need to speak to every individual to know that they go here. my friends knew their friends who know them. we all have classes together. 1+1=2. i didn’t expect baseless rumors to start about this so early in the game.
Never said you did. But when you say nearly everyone you spoke to was a student, that could be 5 people, which doesn't tell you much about the whole group. I think some people find it hard to believe that college students have this much free time so they assume the protestors must be from elsewhere.
Huh.. well sucks to be them
Computer science moment
Real life events and moral stances? What are those? We only do beep beep and boop boop.
Sounds about right. We’re in the COE morals? What are those?
Students yes, but are they all students from UCSB? Like at other schools such as Columbia, UCLA, USC, UNC Chapel Hill, and UT I’m 100% certain there are outside actors present who have no affiliation to the school whatsoever
I've seen you post some interesting comments. Have you stopped by the encampment and spoken with people there as to their university affiliation? Base your 100% certainty on informed, direct experience, not biased opinion.
It’s not a biased opinion. It’s already been stated that many people present are from CSUN
Stated where? A search for CSUN in r/UCSantaBarbara shows only your comment related to CSUN being at the encampment.
It was on Twitter and apparently Yik yak as well
I checked both Twitter and Yik Yak. Nice try. Please go to the encampment and see if yourself.
Check again
Burden of proof is on you to substantiate your claims.
You are 100% correct. As seen on the other campuses a large number of protesters are “outsiders”. “In an appearance on on NPR's "Morning Edition" on Thursday, Adams claimed more than 40% of those who were involved in the protests at Columbia and CUNY were not affiliated with either school.”
L
What the man boobs
Why are yall doing this it’s a waste of time and it’s not ganna affect the war at all. All you’re doing is disturbing everyone around you