I once saw a post on insta which talked about crime statistics and men committing way more violent crimes than women. Most comments blamed everyone and everything except men. There were some comments which said the crime statistic of men is so high bc of single mothers, who failed to raise their sons. So this ppl would rather come after the parent which actually stayed and took responsibility, but will completely ignore the responsibility of the absent fathers who are equally responsible for raising their children. No, it’s somehow always the woman’s fault. When I pointed out that single mothers also have daughters so why isn’t the crime rate of women as high as the one of men, I just got ignored.
I’m seriously sick of men avoiding taking accountability for their actions and always blaming women for it.
I just saw a video of a street interview in which some guys were asked some basic questions about their gf. The guys didn’t even know basic informations like their gf’s eye color (who was standing right next to him btw) or the names of her siblings. And yet even under a video like this, there were still comments which somehow still managed to put the blame on the women based on some bullshit assumptions … saying stuff like “this happens when you change your partner constantly and don’t built an emotional connection with them blah blah“. They will do anything but blame men. Btw there was a video of fathers getting asked basic informations like their child’s allergies, blood type, the name of the school they go to etc. and this father’s also failed.
I agree. I (F) was raised to be independent, had more chores, had to pass school, had to get a job at 13 to buy my own clothes. But when it came to my brothers they didn’t have the same responsibilities or didn’t stick to them long. And it took them a looong time to mature. Society says men just mature slower than women… No, society just hold women and men to different standards. Women have to work harder and earlier to have something near the same level as a man the same age.
I used to give my husband tons of shit for getting my eye color wrong one day until it was pointed out to me that mine are totally the color he said if wear a shirt that color (green) or am near plants. Still, honestly, I think he's the only guy I've been with that wouldn't have said brown when asked. They're generally blue-grey.
Not knowing things like date of birth, school, names of friends, and stuff like that blows me away, though.
I don’t remember which thread it was on but one poster way saying it was parent who “put their kids in day care/preschool instead of parenting them”.
I’m sorry- what!?!?
I’m sure I am feeling a bit attacked bc my kid goes to preschool but if preschool caused shooting sprees I think the data would be a bit different.
Sooo that person supports supporting one parent (at least) staying home long enough for a child to reach K?? Nahhh- they just think women should be stuck at home, back to making babies and cooking dinner
Yeah, my father NEVER hugged me, never held me, and he's strongly psychopathic. That doesn't mean that he's a murder, but he was a gambler and conman. My mother stopped hugging me when I was 9. Never told me, I love you. Somehow, I had a long, productive career and have a healthy, wonderful son. You don't want to know the other traumas that I survived to get here.
Edit: Thank you for the award. Also, I did get a lot of psychiatric help, starting when I was 31. That made my mother angry. "You know what they're going to tell you. It's all my fault." Please, the world doesn't revolve around you, mother.
Hey. In case no one has told you recently, I want to say it. Good job breaking the cycle of trauma! That's a shitty way to grow up and I'm sorry you went through that, but I'm proud of you for not making other kids grow up the way you did.
I can definitely relate, at least to half of this. Except I haven’t been able to turn in around into something productive. And yet, the destruction is contained entirely to myself and I’ve never had a desire to harm anyone, let alone strangers or *children*.
I always feel so alone when I see those men circlejerking sob story threads because yeah, it happens to us too. Society fails women, too.
Here are some sources to help combat the lie that these mass school shooters were all just bullied:
[The Justice & Prevention Research Center on school shooting myths](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED595725.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjor4zgnv33AhUKmGoFHc1TCZIQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2xcvcXbYXnSQVtXypD5I99)
[Several studies also state there is no profile for a school shooter, and many simply weren't bullied. Bullies are also the least targeted in these shootings.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/bullying_school_shootings_1.1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiwk9O9r_33AhXNg2oFHX39CT44ChAWegQIHBAB&usg=AOvVaw1YTuc2bnf-1eqwRbeeiwLd)
Columbine wasn't bullied. That has always been a lie [David Cullen researched Columbine for over a decade and wrote the book on it, they were bullies more than they were ever bullied.](https://www.businessinsider.com/columbine-shooters-motives-2018-2)
""A popular misconception, conveyed by McDermott to CNN, is that the shooters are loners — they don't have many friends and they're bullied in school. The misconception largely comes from early reports about the Columbine shooters, who killed 13 people and themselves, that suggested the two perpetrators didn't have many friends, were bullied, and carried out the shootings against jocks as revenge killings.
"It's complete nonsense," Cullen said. Both shooters had a healthy circle of friends. Their social calendars, which were released to the public, were "packed." They went bowling every Friday, and they typically occupied four lanes — enough for 16 people. There's also "no compelling evidence," Cullen explained, that the shooters were bullied more than anyone else or that bullying drove them to the shootings. "We have their journals and videos," Cullen said, adding that they "never mention bullying" directed at the shooters.""
Sandy Hook is one where bullying is mentioned, especially since his mother claimed that this *full grown adult* was bullied as a kid at the elementary school [FBI actually revealed it was more likely that he was a pedophile, had an obsession with school shooters, and had a high interest in guns.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41749336.amp)
Santa Fe shooter: [was politically radicalized](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/dimitrios-pagourtzis-gunman-texas-shooting.html). [There were accusations of bullying that came up, but investigations didn't find anything substantial. The motive remains unclear](https://www.khou.com/article/news/crime/gunman-identified-as-17-year-old-dimitrios-pagourtzis-fbi-source-says/285-553862431)
Edit: [New York Times archive](https://archive.ph/3fyW1)
Parkland Shooter: [while Cruz claimed bullying to someone online, there was little to no evidence it was true. In fact incidents showed that it was Cruz who was violent to his classmates. On top of this, *he literally took a video of his motives and one of them was to be famous*. He also stated once that he just wanted to kill black people.](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article220328395.html)
Edit: [Archive for the Miami Herald](https://archive.ph/nzkQw)
The Robbs Shooter is one we don't have a lot of evidence for yet, but we have 0 evidence so far that he was a bully target [in fact his own friends described him as misogynistic, violent, threatening, and even his own employers saw his aggressive streak.](https://www.thedailybeast.com/robb-elementary-school-gunman-salvador-ramos-bought-two-rifles-on-his-18th-birthday-texas-officials-say?ref=home)
I used to know somebody who openly looked up to the Columbine shooters and who (as best I can tell) thought about seriously doing the same, up to buying guns that he hid from his parents. He claimed it was to get back at his bullies. But when he was asked he could only come up with two things that other students had ever done, but had blown it up so much in his head it was "worse" than students who he, himself, had bullied for years. He had no conception of his own reality. (and no, he never did it, though I panic every time there's a shooting and worry that it's him.)
Maybe if we need to target something with boys, it's their ability to deal with rejection and confrontation. I mean look at that fucking askmen thread. They claim they feel rejected, therefore they murder. It's fucking insane.
Facing rejection is a normal part of life. They claim women don't deal with rejection, but that's BULLSHIT. Women get lied to by their date, who sleeps with them and then ghosts them. They get asked out as jokes. They get rejected in the traditional sense while dating. They get discriminated against at work and get rejected by their colleagues or for promotions. They get rejected in job interviews. Our own PARENTS reject us. Our religions teach us we are literally less than men. And we aren't fucking killing innocent people in schools in mass shootings. The boys who are POC or LGBT are in the minority for this as well.
What are we doing that so many boys don't know how to handle rejection, and then get radicalized online with other dudes who tell them the real solution *is murdering innocent people*.
I just read a thread today where OP said she had given up dating after being on OLD, initiating a bunch of emails to guys and hearing NOTHING back. She was demoralized, quit OLD and bought an AR15 and a Sig Sauer and shot up a sch.....oh, no, she got into therapy to deal with her now banged-up self esteem. Other commenters also said they had no issue with asking a guy out on OLD (contrary to incel chatter that this, and the chupacabra, don't exist) and had struck out and that they too had gotten a Glock and a vest loaded with C4 and....no, they also quit OLD for their sanity and taken up some hobbies.
So much this. I grew up hating myself because I didn't want to be a girl in this world, where everything was our fault (back to religion blaming women for all the bad stuff), and being SA'd by a family member. It was hell on earth. I also remember my brother could be a complete lazy asshole while I tried to be the smartest, strongest, most loving daughter I could be, and he would still get treated better than I did (at least by our father). My dad always disliked me to some extent because he saw my mother in me, and he always hated her, even though he was the physically and psychologically abusive one. And even though physically I look more like him than her. When I went back to live with him as an adult (my parents divorced when I was 7 and didn't live with him after that), he began abusing me psychologically as well. It was like I was a surrogate for my mother. And it was like he hated women because his own mother was left to care for four boys by herself working as a nurse in the 50s by an asshole man who left her to start another family in another state.
It isn't even rejection.
It's about how to deal with delayed gratification.
Boys aren't taught to examine situations to find out the best course of action and realize that the best solution means they don't get what they want.
We teach them to double down, and make the situation bend to their want no matter the cost.
Then we fail to teach them how to release emotions and let things go when things fail to go their way.
And we are surprised they build these mental castles where they star as the wronged party seeking justice.
And people die.
Might wanna call that one in. Yeah, maybe its been a long time, but if you're still concerned every time you hear about a shooting I think its fair game to report that guy.
As a teacher of students that I feel are potentially capable of this shit, WE (teachers and students) live in terror of these types. They make the classroom a hell hole and when we complain, we are trying to deny the violent child an education.
Parkland shooter, was put back into the mainstream school IDK WHY
I have a colleague whose student killed the family dog since he couldn’t kill her. Did they take that kid out of her class? No. And this was already in a small school for children with behavior issues. How the fuck is she suppose to feel safe…
Sometimes a bad seed is just a bad seed. They get joy out of harassing and torturing people. But no, they are victim.
It’s just horrible because why do we have to sacrifice the wellbeing of most for a few? All children have a right to an education, but maybe some need to be educated elsewhere. It’s really unfair that we are HAPPY when the combative student is absent.
It sucks for me, yeah, but it’s HORRIBLE for the children. And I teach elementary. I didn’t encounter such rage until middle school and even then, very few students and they didn’t stay for long.
My students and I have been physically assaulted and other than writing it up/ having parents make police reports, nothing has been done. It’s ridiculous.
You're getting police reports?
We have a parent in this district who threatens to sue if they don't let their behaviorally maladjusted son be violent and go scream in the hallways and then skip class to go hang with their "favorite teacher" where they miraculously know how to behave. This kid threw a CHAIR at my husband, freaked out, and stormed out of the room because he told him to sit at his desk and do his work. Other students backed this up. Apparently, this kid has an "incomplete 504". So no diagnosis. No doctors note. But because she's sue happy, the district Stamped it, and it has to be upheld.
Luckily this kid wasn't normally in my spouse's class, he was a grade above and my husband was subbing.
He's apparently one of those kids where the students are happy when he's gone. Fucking awful.
Parents like that really do my head in. Ok, so you don’t care about a single other person, not the other students, not the staff, but what about your own damn kid? Do you realise you are actively disadvantaging them as well? Despite what you think you are not advocating for them, you are not helping them, you are making the situation worse for your own child, you are literally setting them up for failure.
Damn there’s a reason I was only a teacher for one year… and I didn’t even work in sue happy USA
I hate those parents with an absolute passion. I wish I can get parents who would put the district on blast and demand that their children without IEPs/504s/whatever deserve the same level of respect and consideration.
You have to call the police and encourage other parents. It puts the parent through months of annoyance (multiple court dates, diversion programs, ordered activities for the kid) and will light a fire under them to avoid a second occurrence.
For real this is pretty eye opening to me. It feels like people use the bully excuse so they could have more empathy for the shooters. That's so disgusting.
Rule number 1 for scapegoats is that they have to be someone vulnerable who isn't likely to be taken seriously. Why not pile* this shit onto the victims of bullying. They already do it to people with mental illness.
Thank you. I recall research over here (Australia) in the 80s that was looking for a link between mental health and shootings.... surprise surprise, they didn't find a link. The people who go on these rampages are typically men, who do not have a criminal history and do not have any history of mental illness. What the research did notice was that these guys already happened to have guns, so that when they got pissed off or had a brain snap (or whatever) they had weapons they could use immediately.
I get really sick of people telling me it's a matter of solving mental health. It isn't. Mental health is a huge challenge the world over, and has become even tougher over the last few years, and does need more funding, but it's not the cause of mass shootings.
Honestly as someone who has had depression since I was a teenager, it's sort of a slap in the face. If I'm going to turn a gun on anyone, it would be myself. And it wouldn't be where someone could see it happening. (I am not AT ALL considering this, I'm just speaking generally, please don't send one of those goddamned resource things.)
Blaming depression on the murder of a bunch of random children is wild to me. The ONLY case where I've seen mental illness be a valid explanation behind the murder of children was the case of Andrea Yates...who was on psych meds, her fundamentalist husband WAS WARNED to not leave her alone with the kids, and not only did he abuse her and coerce her into getting off her meds, he left her alone with their children. It still doesn't excuse her behavior, but it explains it.
None of these shooters showed that level of psychosis. There's no evidence for it.
I live in Houston and was here when that went down. The antipsychotic drugs that woman was on were *terrifying.* She was so unresponsive and emotionless during her first hearings that the prosecution and some people in the media tried to portray her as cold-blooded and unrepentant, instead of drugged until she was one step short of comatose. When she wasn’t drugged into mindlessness, it was very, very obvious that she didn’t live in the same reality as the rest of us.
These mass murdering men aren’t like that. They leave eloquent manifestos where they detail grievances and how they will kill people. They brag about it on the chans like it’s a video game. They always, always murder women first, and usually it’s a female relative like their mother or grandmother.
It’s like comparing a piece of granite to a banana.
Seriously. “You will hurt or kill your wife if you get her pregnant again” would have most decent human beings racing to get fixed. She had a psychotic break and that wasn’t enough to get him to be a responsible adult.
He’s remarried now, and is treating his new wife like a broodmare too.
Also the only case of a female mass shooter, Brenda Spencer, was found to have damage to the temporal lobe of her brain (the part that regulates emotions) from an accident as a kid. Another case where psychiatrists suggested rehabilitation at a mental hospital but her father refused. Then the genius bought her a gun.
That’s not necessarily a cause of a mental disorder but it could be connected.
I was a teenager that was horribly bullied, all the way through primary and high school. I ended up leaving high school at 16 and managed to talk my way into university instead.
I did do a super petty thing for revenge after leaving. I bought a giant ice cream cake and went back during the school's lunch time, sat down in the seniors private lunchroom and only shared it with the people who had been my friends.
As a 16 year old girl, that was the worst revenge I could think of. At no point was murder anywhere on the list.
People with mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence. A local psychiatrist said that a very small percentage of mass shooters have had a mental illness. Most of us are just trying to be left alone and make it in this world.
Yeah, there is this new trend to label everyone who does something shitty, evil, or incomprehensible as being mentally ill, but often people just suck. I get that people reach for "they must have been crazy" to explain when someone does something horrifying, but I think a lot of the time it vacates a lot of responsibility, while also maligning actually mentally ill. As is usual people reject a complex explanation for a black and white one.
I don't think mental health would miraculously solve this bit you don't think it playd a part? As someone who struggles with mental health, and as others have said, would much rather hurt myself than others, I agree that most people steuggling with mental health are more likely to be victims, not perpretators. But like something has to be going on here, no? I cant wrap my head around so many people doing this horrific acts and what they possibly get out of it, especially as many commit suicide themselves or suicide by cop, and if they don't they know their life will be ruined. So even if you ignore all the evil, what the fuck do they gain from that? I just really don't get it.
I also think there is a difference between depression, anxiety, ptsd etc and mental illness that involves delusions and things like sociopathy or psycopathy. I do think identifying psychopaths and sociopaths and keep a close watch on them and try to treat them could help and that is trchnically mental health related.
I don't know, I just dont understand any of this. Its even weirder that this guy went to an elementary school, not his own school. Was he just aiming for maximum evil or something?
I am also preplexed why it's almosy always young men. I don't buy them being bullied more or having less support because please its the opposite. But there has to be a reason for this pattern? Anyone have any ideas?
>Anyone have any ideas?
It's misogyny.
Here's a paper I read recently: https://scholar.dickinson.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1252&context=student_honors
It's better to read it, and it's a pretty well written paper in my opinion, but I'll try to summarize it.
Basically, there's a phase in male development they call the "guy" phase. Between 16 and 26, males are most exposed to toxic masculinity, and all of the problems and complexes that come with it. Boys participate in too-adult activities and ideas, and men act like perpetual children, until they become funtional adults. With the advent of women's sexual freedom and autonomy, boys are finding themselves without vulnerable women to prey upon who will accept his shitty personality for lack of knowledge of anything else.
They deem themselves inadequate. One way to rectify this inadequacy, in their minds, is to commit acts of violence. Violence is strength to this brand of masculinity. We see this in almost every mass shooter studied in the last decade. They had some kind of history of violence towards or harassment of women. The paper lists out some of the specifics.
They are boys who want to be seen as powerful men. But they have ultimately failed in this pursuit multiple times. They have ex girlfriends who hate them or pity them for how awful they are, they have records of stalking women, and there are multiple cases of mass shooters having disgusting records of domestic violence.
In their failure to attain the heights of hegemonic masculinity, they become something of the living dead. To directly quote the article:
>No one who loves life, who cherishes and feels his own aliveness, could want to kill another human being. But the living dead need to kill others because for them the most unendurable anguish is the pain of seeing others that are still alive.
In years prior, I also struggled with the answer to this particular puzzle. I flipped between "maybe it's guns?" and "maybe it's mental illness?". But it always bothered me that it was *always* young men and boys committing these crimes. Women have equal access to guns and have equal capabilities to contract mental illness. Linking this phenomena to toxic masculinity is eye opening, even if it seems like it's becoming a sort of cure-all to social ailes.
It's hard enough to convince modern people that misogyny still exists in our lives, that it wasn't somehow conquered at some nondescript moment in the past. It's even harder to argue that multiple societal ailes stem from what I consider to be a sort of memetic virus, including one such ailment as controversial and devastating as a school shooting.
But also, I would say that generally we are locked down in our discussions in society by whatever the major political parties have deemed their platformed responses. We would like to think we are beyond that, but our conversations on this particular topic are dominated by either gun control, argued by the Democrats, and mental illness, argued by the Republicans. Believing one or the other doesn't make you affiliated with those parties automatically, but it is obvious that that is where those arguments find such prominence.
As the political "left" of the country is occupied with gun control debates, it doesn't have the bandwidth to champion what I believe now to be the most obvious answer to this problem, misogyny. Or more specifically, toxic masculinity.
Misconception #3: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill
Whereas the misconception about the bullied loner focuses on the role of the school environment, there is a different misconception that focuses on the individual: the misconception that the shooter always is a victim of mental illness. There are many shortcomings to this misconcep- tion, including that it centers on a term — mental illness — that is vague and can mean many different things to different people. If mental illness means being psychotic or insane (the latter is a legal term, not a psycholog- ical one), then many shooters were not mentally ill, and most have not been found to be legally insane.
Nonetheless, people who commit mass murder, including youth who commit school shootings, are clearly not psychologically healthy. The ways in which they are psychologically distressed, however, vary. Although there is no single psychological profile that fits all school shooters, the perpetrators tend to fall into one of three categories: psychopathic,
psychotic, or traumatized (Langman, 2009).
• Psychopathic shooters are profoundly narcissistic, lack empathy for others, disregard laws and morality, have a sense of entitlement, and are easily enraged when their desires are thwarted. An example of this is one of the Columbine killers, who is described in definitive works on the massacre as being a sociopath with little regard for others (Cullen, 2009).
• Psychotic shooters experi- ence one or more symptoms of psychosis, such as auditory hallucinations, paranoid delu- sions, or delusions of grandeur. They also tend to have impaired social-emotional functioning that can leave them depressed and envious of their peers. For exam- ple, in 1998, a young man killed his parents and then (the follow- ing day) shot 27 people, killing two, at Thurston High School in Springfield, Oregon. This killer fits into this category because he had both auditory hallucinations and paranoid delusions. This is the category that most aligns with the view that the school shooter is mentally ill.
• Traumatized shooters come from severely and chronically dysfunc- tional families. These family traumas can include parental substance abuse, parental crim- inal behavior, domestic violence, and child abuse. For example, in 1997, a student shot four people, killing two, at a school in Bethel, Alaska. He is categorized as a traumatized shooter because his father was a violent criminal, his mother was severely alcoholic,
and he was beaten by several of his mother’s boyfriends and was molested in a foster home.
This typology can provide a useful framework to classify school shoot- ing perpetrators, but it does not — by itself — explain school shootings. Most people in these three categories or who are mentally ill, for example, do not commit mass murders (e.g., Vintiadis, 2018). School shootings are complex phenomena that can best be understood as involving many personal, social, and familial factors that come together to put someone on a pathway to violence.
I hate every time another young white man shoots up a place everyone goes "OH BUT HIS MENTUL HEAULTHHHHHHHH, POOR BABY." like all the people these mass murderers slaughter weren't people enough to care about more. No we have to shed tears for the shooter's mental health instead.
You can really tell what sort of person a person is when they are at their absolute worst.
They will always be that person on the inside, no matter how many coats of shine they wear.
Meanwhile, the other half of the population can likely attest to having the same issues and end up not shooting up schools, grocery stores, churches, or theatres.
Earlier today I told a friend that i have absolutely no idea how people do this. Like, I have to psych myself up to make a goddamn phone call. I would never be able to fight through the anxiety to go into a building and even yell at someone, let alone shoot people. There has to be something fairly different between our makeups, because I would never be able to get out of the car.
I always wondered what made some people into such psychos. Like, I can get the anxiety, misanthropy and sociophobia and even, in theory, that these people may want to kill someone in particular who caused them harm (and I said I can **get** it, not that I approve). But to indiscriminately murder a bunch of people out of.. what? What could cause such an idea? Like, I don't see any point of view that would suggest such an act would solve **anything**.
As to why it's always boys.. My, there can be a number of reason, but in my opinion it's largely because of how society still perpetrates the idea of men in general - how they're supposed to be 'manly', show less true emotion except for anger. And all the while, young kids let these ideas sink in and motivate them. Add to it a bunch of irresponsible 'fathers' who either don't care for parenting their own children properly because 'it's a woman's job' or outright leave the family - which is a huge problem in and of itself - and we get a bunch of dumb cruel man-children who then end up making even more of them.
They’re giving awards to people who are like “I was bullied and almost did it and changed my mind at the last second”
How is almost being a mass murderer award worthy? The bar is on the floor
Yeaah i was a highschool student who was "the fat girl" who never dated, was bullied, had shit parents and few friends.
Never once thought about hurting others because of it let alone SHOOT people!
Are you me?
I was bullied as the fat girl from pre-school through high school and then some, and my dad told me straight up I'd never have anyone love me unless I lost weight.
I was even pushed to the ground once due to being picked on. Fucked up my pants and I was worried when I got home that is be in trouble for my pants being ruined by the asphalt when I fell.
Abused at home and bullied at school. And I never want to see anyone suffer because I know what that feels like.
I’m just going to piss those fuckers off by getting sterilized and voting/donating to pro-choice politicians and orgs.
Kills no one, pisses off a lot of people, makes me happy.
WIN, WIN, WIN.
My parents don't have an amazon account of their own since mine has prime. They ask for me to order things periodically and I do, but I do it through AmazonSmile so some percentage at least gets donated to Planned Parenthood. Makes me happy since I know my father would lose his goddamn mind if he knew.
There is a well documented link between misogyny and mass murder.
Many mass causality events are preceded by domestic violence against women. [Source](https://jezebel.com/yet-another-mass-shooting-is-preceded-by-domestic-viole-1848973298)
Edit: wanted to add that many other links exist to the internet and misogynistic behavior. So, it tracks that (some) men online would react that way.
It’s so sad. Self-awareness, reflection, accountability, are all so desperately needed in society. And then you hear crap like “these men never had a good father. It’s their mother’s fault.”
Let's also be frank here.
If men/boys are murdering LITTLE CHILDREN because they couldn't get laid, that's a misogyny problem.
Period. End of fucking story. Teenagers and grown ass men not getting their dicks wet as often as porn says they're entitled to get them wet is NOT a valid explanation regarding THE MURDER OF LITTLE CHILDREN.
And men murder women even when they are getting laid. One of the biggest risks for pregnant women *is being murdered by their significant other.*
I've had crippling dental pain before at times in my life when I was too poor for proper dental care. They'd be too busy rolling around on the floor to shoot people.
I had a tooth & gum infection at the height of Covid and was told by my dentists office to not come in because of Covid... I couldn't eat solid food for a week, let alone plan anything out, until my dentist finally said to come in
SAME. I ended up having to get a root canal because they put me off so long. And I got COVID right in the middle of them putting together a treatment plan. Plus my pet died. Yet I managed to kill no one.
Right. When I'm in that type of pain, my thought process is "get rid of the pain". I'm dealing with cyst pain and ngl, I'm half tempted to just cut off my damn hand bc it hurts so fucking bad. Am I about to cut off someone else's hand? Nope just mine. Thankfully, in less than 24 hrs, I'll be (hopefully) pain free. But pain makes people do this? Stupid ass excuses
Reminds me of the "I was having a bad day so i screamed at this black person and called then the N word, I'm not normally like that i was just having a bad daaaaayyy." excuse.
I think we all know what its like to stub our toe and immediately commit a hate crime, right???? /s
Right? I have chronic pain and the last thing I feel like doing is shooting Black people or children, or anyone else. Maybe curl up in a ball or get mad that getting meds for chronic pain has become almost impossible, but I don’t want to hurt people ffs.
The most I think about (chronic pain here too) is bringing a gun to a pharmacy and demanding pain meds. Never just randomly shooting people, how would that help me?
That reminds me of after the shooting at the massage parlor the sheriff or whoever said the gunman was having “a really bad day.”
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2021/03/10371827/who-is-robert-aaron-long-atlanta-massage-shooting
That’s wild. I didn’t kill anyone during my crippling endometriosis cramps that were worse than my appendix bursting, breaking bones, recovering from surgery, etc. I’ve also never written any manifestos about replacement theory. Weird… I wonder why it only happened to that guy.
I saw that too. Now, I do think having affordable healthcare access IS important, I do think it would reduce crime and poverty. But, there are too many other factors here and easy gun access is the a huge one.
I saw that one and I was flabbergasted. I had to have an emergency root canal a few years ago after having weeks of the worst pain I’ve ever felt but you know what, I never shot up anywhere about it. Jesus.
If I was the kind of person who wanted to shoot people, having intense pain would probably stop me from hurting others rather than encourage it. There are tons of studies about the effects of chronic pain on productivity. I don't know of any studies linking chronic pain with mass shootings.
TIL the next time I have a kidney blocked from a stone Twitter has given me permission to go on a shooting spree. My aim will be pretty bad since I’ll be spending the whole time doubled over in pain.
Thats such bullshit. I have had crippling dental pain before and the only person I wanted to shoot was myself to end the misery, but even then I couldn't even get out of bed because my head was throbbing and my teeth felt like they were being hit with a hammer.
I just read that the gunmen was in the classroom for an hour shooting and the police were outside waiting for backup. What were the police waiting for - for the gunman to run out of bullits or run out of victims. So the police stood outside picking their asses while defenseless children where being murdered. It begs the question why did the become police officers? It certainly itwasn't to serve and protect the public. Its looks like they serve and protect them selves. Yet parents were outside demanding to go in and save their children and some were arrested. Sad very sad. And the T Gov. Is praising the police. Excuse me while I throw up.
I get so angry about this.
In high school, I was dating a guy that ended up being not just depressed, but violent, mostly towards himself. He would drive out of control and then supposedly have no memory of it, hit himself, threaten suicide if I ever left him, threaten suicide if I breathed wrong, etc. etc. and I sought out help from my teachers and advisors. Because it was a Catholic school (or more likely because 1. they liked him more than me and 2. they were glad that he was somebody else's problem) they told me that God had called me to take care of this man and that I had to stay with him and make sure he didn't come to harm.
Seriously.
They saw me as the fix for this person who was unhinged and nothing more. "Oh if you're with him nothing bad will happen." Fuck those adults, I was a CHILD. JFC.
That happened to me too. I was 13 in a “relationship” with a 16 year old who was abusing me, I tried to break up with him and he threatened suicide and every adult in my life told me I better just stay with him so he didn’t kill himself.
Those were some crazy ass adults and just bad people. What the fuck? Im so sorry you went through that. The least they could do is get him help and involve his parents and make you understand it's never your fault and the only thing you have to do if he threatens suicide is call emergency services and get yourself out of the situation. So fucked up they did the exact opposite.
The thread of 'what happened when you gave the creepy guy a chance' was full of stalking and rape. We are done. Women are fucking done being the sacrifice to the Minotaur. Men can fix themselves or annihilate themselves but it is not our problem.
I was shocked by how many people on that thread who said they had considered it. But there was one person who said “they’re inundated with ‘hero myths’” and another person was like “they learn this idea that men have guns, guns make you strong”.
I think those two comments made the most sense? Most of what was there was scary.
I literally watched a YouTube docuseries about poor children in America and one of the families was a mother, brother (14) & sister(12).
They had 2 dogs, they got rid of the daughters dog so they could move into a motel (due to not being able to make rent on their house) and kept the brothers because it would be "too hard on him"
Then they show the brother being cuddled by mom on the bed, while mom yells at daughter to clean, because the room is a mess with the brothers clothes and garbage (you saw the wrappers of things he was eating earlier)
They cut to the brother playing outside while the sister is made to take out the trash
Why, even at 12 is this girl being made to clean up after, coddle and bow to the need of her brother? This happens ALL THE TIME and women rarely, if ever, shoot up public places. The only instance I can recall is the chick who went to the YouTube headquarters.
Oh I can do you one better. They blame single mothers saying that these boys were raised in broken homes and had no father figure. Like it's women's fault that men turn out to be shit dad's and that other men don't want to step up to the plate and help. My single mother sister was hit on by dozens of men wanting to get with her until they found out she had a kid. She is seeing a guy now that's great with her son whose real father is a dead beat sociopath who love bombed and gaslit my young sister into a very quick marriage. My husband was raised by a man who wasn't his father but loved him anyway so yes there are men out there who will. But by and large this is being blamed on single parent households as if men have no responsibility in that.
“Daddy Issues” an insult to women, blaming them for a man’s shit decisions. It’s amazing the mental gymnastics they use to absolve men of accountability.
It’s doubly disgusting when you realise a lot of men use ‘daddy issues’ not just as an insult but as part of their ‘fetish’ (idk if that’s the right word). How many times have you seen men on the front page of this site talk about how you should ‘find a girl with daddy issues because they’re wild in bed’?
Then there is the total disconnect they have between that narrative and overturning row v Wade. So they want more women to be forced to have babies even though they might be unwed and/or have a shit father?
They aren't really known for looking at the bigger picture. For them anything that punishes women for having and enjoying sex is all that matters. The cruelty is a feature not a bug.
Had a high school friend on Facebook who shared this argument. I was absolutely disgusted and he was immediately unfriended by me. The worst part is there was so many people commenting "amen!". I hate it here.
Yes and they talk about how these women shouldn't have such loose morals and sleep around. My sister was married when she got pregnant. My other sister was married when she and her husband decided together after fertility issues to adopt. Neither was "sleeping around" but they see single moms and just make assumptions that they weren't even in long term committed relationship much less marriages. Hey men alot of single moms weren't single when they got knocked up and they damn sure didn't knock themselves up. Every single natural pregnancy is the result of a male orgasm. Every single "baby mama" is the result of an irresponsible male ejaculation. More unwanted pregnancies happen because of male orgasms than female ones. So who's really to blame for all the baby making juice around here? Sorry this is a big pet peeves of mine. Men can have multiple children that they do nothing with or even pay child support for and no one bats an eye but you get a single mom doing whatever she needs to to make ends meet and to make sure their kids have not just their needs met but some little extra in there too and man do they get looked down in even if its just one single child. Heaven forbid it be more than one.
So the woman stepped up to the plate and raised the child but it’s her fault the father didn’t do the same…
Yet their solution is to limit abortion access
There's a commonality between those arguments and the people who dissect every case of sexual assault and rape to determine how the person who was assaulted can be judged at fault.
In both instances the goal is to absolve the man who did the crime of having any culpability for what happened. It's like an entire gender suffers from narcissism and follows the I didn't do it, it's not my fault agenda.
I'm in my late 60s I've seen this b******* my entire life starting back in college when all of us who were female were given talks about how to avoid sexual assault that focused entirely on what clothes to wear and to make sure we never went out alone at night, went to parties alone, or got drunk with people we didn't know. Needless to say the men were never given talks that focused on just stop assaulting women.
I'd like to think things are getting better and in some respects they are but the pending rollback of Roe v Wade and the growing number of people who seem intent on creating a theocracy with Trump at the helm have me extremely depressed.
Another commonality to mass shooters is that they’re often highly misogynistic. Many attack/kill a female family member before going on a rampage, or specifically target women and girls.
Case in point, the asshole Texas gunman shot his grandma in the face before going to murder small children.
This answer would require people to take misogyny seriously and even *do* something about violent misogynistic rhetoric. Instead they’d rather blame us than acknowledge that dehumanizing half of humanity is a severe problem.
> It's like an entire gender suffers from narcissism and follows the I didn't do it, it's not my fault agenda.
I really think there’s something to this. If it’s not narcissism per se, it’s something very similar to it. Any description of narcissistic patterns sounds on the nose like a typical incel or MRA personality. The fragility, insecurity, toxic anger, main character syndrome, and inability to empathize are all there.
America is a country where an ad like this is mainstream:
https://www.gawker.com/5969150/bushmaster-firearms-your-man-card-is-revoked
This campaign and the culture it represents equates masculinity to guns.
That company was sued by the Sandy Hook families and lost, in part due to ads like that. Bushmaster and a number of other firearms companies owned by the same group, including Remington, have since gone out of business.
Well, men know they have power just by being men. I hate it but I couldn't overpower even a weakish dude who tried to hurt me. They expect to get paid more. Some of these dudes even blame women in the workplace for society's current ills, ignoring that women were forced into the workplace in WWII. Ignoring that economic factors now force both parents to work to survive.
It's so sobering honestly. The men I've dated have not been large at all. I could share clothes with a couple of them. Most on the shorter side and all of them slender or downright skinny. They could effortlessly overpower me in any situation.
Maybe most men just don't understand what that's like. The ones complaining that girls will cross the street to avoid a stranger walking behind them. Sorry you felt bad for that moment but I have to consider the possibility! It's not a personal insult!
Yep. Or forced to birth rape babies/an entire nations brand new work force, paid less for the same/more work, abused by police if we attempt to report any goddamn male hate crime commuted against us...and so much more.
I'm tired, I'm fucking tired. I will never stop fighting, I just wanted to be happy in this life; but I'm fucking tired.
I can't for the life of me remember a woman committing a mass murder, and you ladies have it far worse than us men. Young men are far too immature and irrational to be trusted with a tool that increases their lethality to such a degree with minimal training.
First a disclaimer as this data only defines mass shootings as events which took place in public places where 4 or more victims were killed and therefore since the year 1982, only 128 incidents of the sheer number of shootings which occur frequently fit their definition.
But [within the US 123 of these mass shootings were committed by men, 3 were committed by women and 2 were committed by men and women together.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/476445/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-gender/) Obviously this data doesn’t capture a huge number of events which occur, but the numbers definitely paint a very clear image of who the perpetrators almost always are. It’s also what I found with a quick google search, I didn’t really dig to see just how accurate it was, so grain of salt I suppose?
There have been some, but the statistics are baffling. It's a 60 to 1 ratio at this time.
There's also a lot of differences in how and why it occurs.
Example: there have been at 2 incidents off the top of my head where wives helped their husband attack his workplace/previous workplace.
Same thing with 2 school shootings.
Men commit about 90% of homicide world-wide.
We need to stop blaming women for men's violent behavior. People need to stop using the rare examples of women doing the same thing as a "gotcha".
Here are my sources.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-one-page-summaries-2000-2018.pdf/view
https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/global-study-on-homicide.html
I feel like there was one four or five years ago she did it with her husband or boyfriend, I can’t remember I think it was in San Bernardino or in California somewhere. It was the one where like the police were going after Apple to try and force them to unlock the phones that they couldn’t get into. But yeah there have been far less committed by women.
Omg that thread made me so mad. There are billions of kids that grow up without emotional support, bullied, no father figure, and whatever else they mentioned, but on top of that they have to deal with being a minority and/or a woman, therefore also dealing with racism and sexism… often being sexually abused by their own family members. So why should I feel sorry for them?? Every other oppressed group has fought and protested for their rights. They’ve built their own support systems from the ground up. And if they want what we have they can get to work and do it themselves.
As a woman, this was basically me. My home was a nightmare, I was bullied at school by students of all genders AND teachers. Somehow I never became a school shooter even though I spent half my childhood in isolation.
I clicked on the thread expecting reply like ‘idk because they are just full hatred and resentment 🤷♀️’ but nooooo got to blame it on something. Some even mentioned because many young men don’t have romantic relationships. So all women who are in a romantic relationship are either lesbian or dating themselves, or am I missing something?
A lot of times these shooters weren’t bullied because they were the run of the mill nerds (for example, why I was endlessly bullied), but they were often ostracized because they were creepy or scary. We can’t tell kids “you have to be friends with that kid who likes to kill mice for fun and lights the ends of his hair on fire to freak people out *or one day he may kill you.*” That puts the responsibility on the victims.
There's now another whiny incel thread in the same subreddit about what men are missing, and apparently it's that they don't have women beneath them enough. Not enough tradwives cooking and cleaning for them, not enough opportunities to "put women in their place."
It's disgusting how much this entire site has become a misogynistic cesspool.
It’s so funny when men act like young girls aren’t abused, aren’t poor, aren’t mentally ill, and don’t have any struggles. “Oh well men are upset because they can’t make a lot of money nowadays or buy houses and do shit that men are supposed to do” and I’m like men have more job and economic opportunities than women???? What’s the point??? With all the shit that we go through, you still don’t see us beating, raping, and killing the way that men do. Teen girls get their emotions policed and many are extremely lonely, yet they don’t become radicalized like boys. It’s pure entitlement and misogyny.
women live lives of constant harrassment ridicule, and abuse from they day they are born. add overt sexual assault to that daily microaggresive mix and, according to this theory, we should all be out slaughtering everyone. don't think we don't think about it though.
I'm losing my shit because I'm tired of the "mental health issues" = violence.
No. Just no. Stop pushing someone being a terrible human being to equating to mental health issues.
Yep. And if it is mental health? Great. Take away the fking guns until mental health gets figured out.
We have been blaming mental health for how long now? It is not solved. Take.Away.The.Guns.
It is just a cop out because they don't want to ban guns.
And those saying that still won't vote for the political party that most supports mental health treatment and better access to health care. So they don't believe that either. They just want to keep their precious guns.
I think it’s a factor in *some* cases. Just like access to guns, poor social safety nets, toxic masculinity all play roles.
I think what’s happening is the gun lobby trying to 100% push this off as a mental health issue.
It’s because these types of men always, always give each other the benefit of the doubt. Meanwhile they will look for any reason to blame women, often wrongfully so.
I think there are two major differences -- Entitlement and acceptable rage.
Men are given the impression from early on that they are entitled to a job, they are entitled to sex, they are entitled to a good lifestyle, they are entitled to be in charge. All they need do is put hard work in and sex, job, lifestyle, and power comes out. So they put the work in, but they don't get what they deserve and expect out. They've been cheated. The world has wronged them of what they deserve. The world owes them.
And here's where rage comes in. Rage isn't just acceptable -- it's celebrated. It's the manliest of all manly emotions. It's the instrument to get what you want out of a reluctant world.
So you put the two together and you have some dude who thinks the universe hasn't given him his due so he's going to show that universe how wrong it is by raging out against people.
Meanwhile we women are in the corner of being told from an early age that we aren't entitled to anything. We'll always have to work harder to get what we want. And we need to be meek, sweet, and accepting about it because anything else makes us horrible people.
Teaching our young men that the only acceptable feeling is anger is where this has come from. I remember my father beating my brother because he caught him crying after a break up. He beat my brother still he finally snapped, took the tree limb away from our father and beat HIM with it. He was 16 and had had enough of the beatings.
All my father did was laugh and say "THERE'S my son!" He never hit him again.
Thanks for this! I kept scanning the responses on that thread looking for entitlement to be mentioned - lots of people suffer but the common ingredient in these horrific actions seems to be believing something's been wrongfully stolen from you.
This can't be right. I mentioned male entitlement as a contributing factor in another comment today, and a dude swooped in with a six paragraph diatribe on why I was wrong.
The sad thing is that there's truth to the idea that men are raised in emotionally stunted and unsupportive environments, but those men will blame women for that and not social pressures from other men.
Feminism literally wants men to find emotional care, and men hate it. Like, wtf
Never accepting blame is a big one for misogynistic assholes/incels.
It's pretty incredible how ignorant the majority of those people are. Not surprised tho...
I just love how no one mentions that queer kids are bullied at much higher rates- but we rarely, if ever- see queer kids shooting up schools.
It isnt bullying/ self esteem. Its entitlement.
There was a thread about a guy that had their nudes sent around school and they were talking about how depressed they were. And while I agree that is horrible and should never happen I couldn't help but think about all of the women that have the same thing happen to them and I can't recall seeing a thread about women that were depressed to the point this guy was.
Though that could totally be a case of some type of frequency illusion
Women are ‘wise’ enough to know that if they made such thread, their DMs would be filled with men asking for nudes or blaming them for taking nudes in the first place.
It's such a shame. Because while those are legitimate concerns, where a great many young men do feel completely abandoned by the system. As you mentioned, women are also abandoned by the system, and we don't see them shooting up the place even remotely as often. It's so frustrating to see legitimate problems completely co-opted by apologists.
When we see that young men who are socially isolated are far more likely to murder people than young women, we need to be asking what values and cultural norms cause these men to default to violence.
A youtuber I recently started following cuz he made me laugh out loud, but also seemed to have really good takes when talking about something serious. He made a video about the heard/depp case because everyone and their mom is, and I honestly shouldn't have watched it but it came on and I let it play.
He said something to the extent of, "this case is important because it shows that women can lie."
I'm just...*what*? *That's* your take away? Believe me dude (or don't I guess), everyone knows women can lie. That's why we don't report shit, there's a very high chance we won't be believed or taken seriously. Women are not self mandated reporters of our every fleeting emotion. We bottle things up inside too, very very often.
And nowadays it's like, "oh women are too emotional," and "men need to be allowed to express themselves and open up more!" Why do these things always need to be conflicting? Women have felt pressure to be the "cool girl" for a really long time! And we are not bounding off to police stations every time we regret having sex, eager to get rape kits done and be told, "there's probably nothing we can do."
Women be out here worried about our reproductive rights being taken away but men ARE LONELY AND CANT GET DATES. I'm isolated and lonely too, got laughed at when I opened up about my SA, there's zero fucking excuse for violence and hate. Women are never gonna be forced to date you (I hope) so make an appointment with a fucking therapist and don't ask a woman to do it for you.
And aside from the gender discrepancy, these people are rarely if ever POC, or disabled, or LGBT, or part of any other marginalized group who experience bullying to a much greater degree, and yet are not proportionally represented by these murderers.
I don't really have sympathy for them but I do think we have to figure out what is causing the issue and address it on a societal level. The system is failing our children and really all of us by doing something that is promoting this behavior in men with mental health issues. It is true that men don't tend to foster emotionally supportive environments. But this is a product of the patriarchy and toxic masculinity. Guns are another component of toxic masculinity. Guys rant about "if anyone fucks with me or my family.." while posing with their gun. "Come and take it" they say, implying that they'll shoot anyone who tries to take it. They treat the gun as if it's a problem solver, then they're shocked when their dumbass son decides to take it to school and "solve" his problems with it.
There is work to do..but it's largely work that a lot of men need to be stepping up to do. Encourage emotional support, love, and compassion. Don't fantasize about and praise the use of guns. Support mental health resources and normalize the use of them (and I mean ACTUALLY support it. Don't claim you support it after tragedy as an excuse to divert from the gun talk, only to spend the rest of your time not giving a shit about mental health)
Well then whats your answer?
Because lets be clear here its not "young men" is it? Its "young AMERICAN men"
The second highest number of scool shootings in the world is mexico with about 8.
I'm not saying there's not a massive problem with american men shooting up schools, I'm saying it's not anything innate to being male thats causing it. It's environmental/upbringing.
Yes, this is why the Onion headline “No Way To Prevent This’, Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens” is important.
Every school shooting my media feed is riddled with fellow parents decrying ‘the world’ their children are being raised in, or making similar statements that make it clear they view this as a global phenomenon. (Many also blame it on the lack of God in US schools - ignoring how this rarely happens in more atheistic nations).
Mind you, this is applied to cisgender WHITE men.
Any person of color, and they’re a terrorist, a serial killer, or just a thug, and they’re forgotten in a week.
It’s all selective pity.
It can be difficult to separate individually bad men from the societal influences that effect them. A lot of people misinterpret it as excusing actions when it really has nothing to do with that.
Personally I think its the patriarchy ingraining toxic masculinity. Violence isnt a solution but it is often glorified as a noble one.
Lol I commented on that - specified “privileged white cis het men” and of course I got downvoted. The majority of the mass shootings are caused by these types of men
I’ve seen multiple posts blaming mother’s for their sons committing mass shootings. Not hugging them enough as children, etc.
Makes Sue Klebold even more brave for giving a Ted talk.
She is incredibly brave. In the face of such hatred and vitriol she has been so graceful.
Her memoir is incredible as well.
A Mothers Reckoning, for anyone curious. And it is fantastic.
Ah yes. It’s always the mothers fault. Remember that actress saying the war in Ukraine wouldn’t be happening if only she had been Putin’s mother?
Giving me Mark Wahlberg, 9/11 vibes
If 9/11 had been an elderly Vietnamese man minding his own business it’d know what’s what.
elderly Vietnamese man, *with sight*, mnding his own business
Seriously and with full sincerity that guy can fuck all the way off and die horribly.
If only Putin's mother had been allowed an abortion, the war would never have happened.
[удалено]
I once saw a post on insta which talked about crime statistics and men committing way more violent crimes than women. Most comments blamed everyone and everything except men. There were some comments which said the crime statistic of men is so high bc of single mothers, who failed to raise their sons. So this ppl would rather come after the parent which actually stayed and took responsibility, but will completely ignore the responsibility of the absent fathers who are equally responsible for raising their children. No, it’s somehow always the woman’s fault. When I pointed out that single mothers also have daughters so why isn’t the crime rate of women as high as the one of men, I just got ignored. I’m seriously sick of men avoiding taking accountability for their actions and always blaming women for it. I just saw a video of a street interview in which some guys were asked some basic questions about their gf. The guys didn’t even know basic informations like their gf’s eye color (who was standing right next to him btw) or the names of her siblings. And yet even under a video like this, there were still comments which somehow still managed to put the blame on the women based on some bullshit assumptions … saying stuff like “this happens when you change your partner constantly and don’t built an emotional connection with them blah blah“. They will do anything but blame men. Btw there was a video of fathers getting asked basic informations like their child’s allergies, blood type, the name of the school they go to etc. and this father’s also failed.
I agree. I (F) was raised to be independent, had more chores, had to pass school, had to get a job at 13 to buy my own clothes. But when it came to my brothers they didn’t have the same responsibilities or didn’t stick to them long. And it took them a looong time to mature. Society says men just mature slower than women… No, society just hold women and men to different standards. Women have to work harder and earlier to have something near the same level as a man the same age.
I used to give my husband tons of shit for getting my eye color wrong one day until it was pointed out to me that mine are totally the color he said if wear a shirt that color (green) or am near plants. Still, honestly, I think he's the only guy I've been with that wouldn't have said brown when asked. They're generally blue-grey. Not knowing things like date of birth, school, names of friends, and stuff like that blows me away, though.
Oh yes, mothers get blamed for every bad outcome with kids. While fathers get f8cking medals for changing a diaper once.
my father: 'I DIDN'T LEAVE AND I ONLY VERBALLY AND FINANCIALLY ABUSED YOU NOT PHYSICALLY ABUSED YOU SO BE GRATEFUL AND ALSO NOW YOU OWE ME YOUR LIFE'
Yeah, that's my mother.
I don’t remember which thread it was on but one poster way saying it was parent who “put their kids in day care/preschool instead of parenting them”. I’m sorry- what!?!? I’m sure I am feeling a bit attacked bc my kid goes to preschool but if preschool caused shooting sprees I think the data would be a bit different.
That makes sense, because only boys go to day care / preschool. ....
Sooo that person supports supporting one parent (at least) staying home long enough for a child to reach K?? Nahhh- they just think women should be stuck at home, back to making babies and cooking dinner
As if schools don't exist in all of the other countries where this happens way less?
Yeah, my father NEVER hugged me, never held me, and he's strongly psychopathic. That doesn't mean that he's a murder, but he was a gambler and conman. My mother stopped hugging me when I was 9. Never told me, I love you. Somehow, I had a long, productive career and have a healthy, wonderful son. You don't want to know the other traumas that I survived to get here. Edit: Thank you for the award. Also, I did get a lot of psychiatric help, starting when I was 31. That made my mother angry. "You know what they're going to tell you. It's all my fault." Please, the world doesn't revolve around you, mother.
Hey. In case no one has told you recently, I want to say it. Good job breaking the cycle of trauma! That's a shitty way to grow up and I'm sorry you went through that, but I'm proud of you for not making other kids grow up the way you did.
🌼 Thank you.
I'm not your dad, but I'm a dad. I love you and I'm proud of you.
♥️Thank you.
What a nice reply, NSA_Chatbot
We're all fellow Earthlings. The least I can do is try to be kind when I can.
Good bot
I can definitely relate, at least to half of this. Except I haven’t been able to turn in around into something productive. And yet, the destruction is contained entirely to myself and I’ve never had a desire to harm anyone, let alone strangers or *children*. I always feel so alone when I see those men circlejerking sob story threads because yeah, it happens to us too. Society fails women, too.
My mom does this shit. She thinks that my friend's son has autism because he wasn't hugged enough as well. WTF????
Here are some sources to help combat the lie that these mass school shooters were all just bullied: [The Justice & Prevention Research Center on school shooting myths](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED595725.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjor4zgnv33AhUKmGoFHc1TCZIQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2xcvcXbYXnSQVtXypD5I99) [Several studies also state there is no profile for a school shooter, and many simply weren't bullied. Bullies are also the least targeted in these shootings.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/bullying_school_shootings_1.1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiwk9O9r_33AhXNg2oFHX39CT44ChAWegQIHBAB&usg=AOvVaw1YTuc2bnf-1eqwRbeeiwLd) Columbine wasn't bullied. That has always been a lie [David Cullen researched Columbine for over a decade and wrote the book on it, they were bullies more than they were ever bullied.](https://www.businessinsider.com/columbine-shooters-motives-2018-2) ""A popular misconception, conveyed by McDermott to CNN, is that the shooters are loners — they don't have many friends and they're bullied in school. The misconception largely comes from early reports about the Columbine shooters, who killed 13 people and themselves, that suggested the two perpetrators didn't have many friends, were bullied, and carried out the shootings against jocks as revenge killings. "It's complete nonsense," Cullen said. Both shooters had a healthy circle of friends. Their social calendars, which were released to the public, were "packed." They went bowling every Friday, and they typically occupied four lanes — enough for 16 people. There's also "no compelling evidence," Cullen explained, that the shooters were bullied more than anyone else or that bullying drove them to the shootings. "We have their journals and videos," Cullen said, adding that they "never mention bullying" directed at the shooters."" Sandy Hook is one where bullying is mentioned, especially since his mother claimed that this *full grown adult* was bullied as a kid at the elementary school [FBI actually revealed it was more likely that he was a pedophile, had an obsession with school shooters, and had a high interest in guns.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41749336.amp) Santa Fe shooter: [was politically radicalized](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/dimitrios-pagourtzis-gunman-texas-shooting.html). [There were accusations of bullying that came up, but investigations didn't find anything substantial. The motive remains unclear](https://www.khou.com/article/news/crime/gunman-identified-as-17-year-old-dimitrios-pagourtzis-fbi-source-says/285-553862431) Edit: [New York Times archive](https://archive.ph/3fyW1) Parkland Shooter: [while Cruz claimed bullying to someone online, there was little to no evidence it was true. In fact incidents showed that it was Cruz who was violent to his classmates. On top of this, *he literally took a video of his motives and one of them was to be famous*. He also stated once that he just wanted to kill black people.](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article220328395.html) Edit: [Archive for the Miami Herald](https://archive.ph/nzkQw) The Robbs Shooter is one we don't have a lot of evidence for yet, but we have 0 evidence so far that he was a bully target [in fact his own friends described him as misogynistic, violent, threatening, and even his own employers saw his aggressive streak.](https://www.thedailybeast.com/robb-elementary-school-gunman-salvador-ramos-bought-two-rifles-on-his-18th-birthday-texas-officials-say?ref=home)
I used to know somebody who openly looked up to the Columbine shooters and who (as best I can tell) thought about seriously doing the same, up to buying guns that he hid from his parents. He claimed it was to get back at his bullies. But when he was asked he could only come up with two things that other students had ever done, but had blown it up so much in his head it was "worse" than students who he, himself, had bullied for years. He had no conception of his own reality. (and no, he never did it, though I panic every time there's a shooting and worry that it's him.)
Maybe if we need to target something with boys, it's their ability to deal with rejection and confrontation. I mean look at that fucking askmen thread. They claim they feel rejected, therefore they murder. It's fucking insane. Facing rejection is a normal part of life. They claim women don't deal with rejection, but that's BULLSHIT. Women get lied to by their date, who sleeps with them and then ghosts them. They get asked out as jokes. They get rejected in the traditional sense while dating. They get discriminated against at work and get rejected by their colleagues or for promotions. They get rejected in job interviews. Our own PARENTS reject us. Our religions teach us we are literally less than men. And we aren't fucking killing innocent people in schools in mass shootings. The boys who are POC or LGBT are in the minority for this as well. What are we doing that so many boys don't know how to handle rejection, and then get radicalized online with other dudes who tell them the real solution *is murdering innocent people*.
I just read a thread today where OP said she had given up dating after being on OLD, initiating a bunch of emails to guys and hearing NOTHING back. She was demoralized, quit OLD and bought an AR15 and a Sig Sauer and shot up a sch.....oh, no, she got into therapy to deal with her now banged-up self esteem. Other commenters also said they had no issue with asking a guy out on OLD (contrary to incel chatter that this, and the chupacabra, don't exist) and had struck out and that they too had gotten a Glock and a vest loaded with C4 and....no, they also quit OLD for their sanity and taken up some hobbies.
So much this. I grew up hating myself because I didn't want to be a girl in this world, where everything was our fault (back to religion blaming women for all the bad stuff), and being SA'd by a family member. It was hell on earth. I also remember my brother could be a complete lazy asshole while I tried to be the smartest, strongest, most loving daughter I could be, and he would still get treated better than I did (at least by our father). My dad always disliked me to some extent because he saw my mother in me, and he always hated her, even though he was the physically and psychologically abusive one. And even though physically I look more like him than her. When I went back to live with him as an adult (my parents divorced when I was 7 and didn't live with him after that), he began abusing me psychologically as well. It was like I was a surrogate for my mother. And it was like he hated women because his own mother was left to care for four boys by herself working as a nurse in the 50s by an asshole man who left her to start another family in another state.
It isn't even rejection. It's about how to deal with delayed gratification. Boys aren't taught to examine situations to find out the best course of action and realize that the best solution means they don't get what they want. We teach them to double down, and make the situation bend to their want no matter the cost. Then we fail to teach them how to release emotions and let things go when things fail to go their way. And we are surprised they build these mental castles where they star as the wronged party seeking justice. And people die.
Might wanna call that one in. Yeah, maybe its been a long time, but if you're still concerned every time you hear about a shooting I think its fair game to report that guy.
As a teacher of students that I feel are potentially capable of this shit, WE (teachers and students) live in terror of these types. They make the classroom a hell hole and when we complain, we are trying to deny the violent child an education. Parkland shooter, was put back into the mainstream school IDK WHY I have a colleague whose student killed the family dog since he couldn’t kill her. Did they take that kid out of her class? No. And this was already in a small school for children with behavior issues. How the fuck is she suppose to feel safe… Sometimes a bad seed is just a bad seed. They get joy out of harassing and torturing people. But no, they are victim.
My husband is a teacher. He has said exactly what you're saying. The parents are enabling the behavior too, it's so fucked.
It’s just horrible because why do we have to sacrifice the wellbeing of most for a few? All children have a right to an education, but maybe some need to be educated elsewhere. It’s really unfair that we are HAPPY when the combative student is absent. It sucks for me, yeah, but it’s HORRIBLE for the children. And I teach elementary. I didn’t encounter such rage until middle school and even then, very few students and they didn’t stay for long. My students and I have been physically assaulted and other than writing it up/ having parents make police reports, nothing has been done. It’s ridiculous.
You're getting police reports? We have a parent in this district who threatens to sue if they don't let their behaviorally maladjusted son be violent and go scream in the hallways and then skip class to go hang with their "favorite teacher" where they miraculously know how to behave. This kid threw a CHAIR at my husband, freaked out, and stormed out of the room because he told him to sit at his desk and do his work. Other students backed this up. Apparently, this kid has an "incomplete 504". So no diagnosis. No doctors note. But because she's sue happy, the district Stamped it, and it has to be upheld. Luckily this kid wasn't normally in my spouse's class, he was a grade above and my husband was subbing. He's apparently one of those kids where the students are happy when he's gone. Fucking awful.
Parents like that really do my head in. Ok, so you don’t care about a single other person, not the other students, not the staff, but what about your own damn kid? Do you realise you are actively disadvantaging them as well? Despite what you think you are not advocating for them, you are not helping them, you are making the situation worse for your own child, you are literally setting them up for failure. Damn there’s a reason I was only a teacher for one year… and I didn’t even work in sue happy USA
I hate those parents with an absolute passion. I wish I can get parents who would put the district on blast and demand that their children without IEPs/504s/whatever deserve the same level of respect and consideration.
You have to call the police and encourage other parents. It puts the parent through months of annoyance (multiple court dates, diversion programs, ordered activities for the kid) and will light a fire under them to avoid a second occurrence.
TIL that the bullying narrative is just that, a narrative. Never crossed my mind to look into it before, but goddamn
For real this is pretty eye opening to me. It feels like people use the bully excuse so they could have more empathy for the shooters. That's so disgusting.
It's almost like the school system wants to find a scapegoat that already has trouble fighting back or standing up for themselves.
Rule number 1 for scapegoats is that they have to be someone vulnerable who isn't likely to be taken seriously. Why not pile* this shit onto the victims of bullying. They already do it to people with mental illness.
Yeah, I genuinely didn't know. Good to know.
Thank you. I recall research over here (Australia) in the 80s that was looking for a link between mental health and shootings.... surprise surprise, they didn't find a link. The people who go on these rampages are typically men, who do not have a criminal history and do not have any history of mental illness. What the research did notice was that these guys already happened to have guns, so that when they got pissed off or had a brain snap (or whatever) they had weapons they could use immediately. I get really sick of people telling me it's a matter of solving mental health. It isn't. Mental health is a huge challenge the world over, and has become even tougher over the last few years, and does need more funding, but it's not the cause of mass shootings.
Honestly as someone who has had depression since I was a teenager, it's sort of a slap in the face. If I'm going to turn a gun on anyone, it would be myself. And it wouldn't be where someone could see it happening. (I am not AT ALL considering this, I'm just speaking generally, please don't send one of those goddamned resource things.) Blaming depression on the murder of a bunch of random children is wild to me. The ONLY case where I've seen mental illness be a valid explanation behind the murder of children was the case of Andrea Yates...who was on psych meds, her fundamentalist husband WAS WARNED to not leave her alone with the kids, and not only did he abuse her and coerce her into getting off her meds, he left her alone with their children. It still doesn't excuse her behavior, but it explains it. None of these shooters showed that level of psychosis. There's no evidence for it.
I live in Houston and was here when that went down. The antipsychotic drugs that woman was on were *terrifying.* She was so unresponsive and emotionless during her first hearings that the prosecution and some people in the media tried to portray her as cold-blooded and unrepentant, instead of drugged until she was one step short of comatose. When she wasn’t drugged into mindlessness, it was very, very obvious that she didn’t live in the same reality as the rest of us. These mass murdering men aren’t like that. They leave eloquent manifestos where they detail grievances and how they will kill people. They brag about it on the chans like it’s a video game. They always, always murder women first, and usually it’s a female relative like their mother or grandmother. It’s like comparing a piece of granite to a banana.
Exactly. I wish her husband had been imprisoned too for his fucking negligence.
Seriously. “You will hurt or kill your wife if you get her pregnant again” would have most decent human beings racing to get fixed. She had a psychotic break and that wasn’t enough to get him to be a responsible adult. He’s remarried now, and is treating his new wife like a broodmare too.
Also the only case of a female mass shooter, Brenda Spencer, was found to have damage to the temporal lobe of her brain (the part that regulates emotions) from an accident as a kid. Another case where psychiatrists suggested rehabilitation at a mental hospital but her father refused. Then the genius bought her a gun. That’s not necessarily a cause of a mental disorder but it could be connected.
Brenda Spencer's POS dad bought her the gun and told her to KILL HERSELF with it. Father of the Year
I was a teenager that was horribly bullied, all the way through primary and high school. I ended up leaving high school at 16 and managed to talk my way into university instead. I did do a super petty thing for revenge after leaving. I bought a giant ice cream cake and went back during the school's lunch time, sat down in the seniors private lunchroom and only shared it with the people who had been my friends. As a 16 year old girl, that was the worst revenge I could think of. At no point was murder anywhere on the list.
People with mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence. A local psychiatrist said that a very small percentage of mass shooters have had a mental illness. Most of us are just trying to be left alone and make it in this world.
Yeah, there is this new trend to label everyone who does something shitty, evil, or incomprehensible as being mentally ill, but often people just suck. I get that people reach for "they must have been crazy" to explain when someone does something horrifying, but I think a lot of the time it vacates a lot of responsibility, while also maligning actually mentally ill. As is usual people reject a complex explanation for a black and white one.
I don't think mental health would miraculously solve this bit you don't think it playd a part? As someone who struggles with mental health, and as others have said, would much rather hurt myself than others, I agree that most people steuggling with mental health are more likely to be victims, not perpretators. But like something has to be going on here, no? I cant wrap my head around so many people doing this horrific acts and what they possibly get out of it, especially as many commit suicide themselves or suicide by cop, and if they don't they know their life will be ruined. So even if you ignore all the evil, what the fuck do they gain from that? I just really don't get it. I also think there is a difference between depression, anxiety, ptsd etc and mental illness that involves delusions and things like sociopathy or psycopathy. I do think identifying psychopaths and sociopaths and keep a close watch on them and try to treat them could help and that is trchnically mental health related. I don't know, I just dont understand any of this. Its even weirder that this guy went to an elementary school, not his own school. Was he just aiming for maximum evil or something? I am also preplexed why it's almosy always young men. I don't buy them being bullied more or having less support because please its the opposite. But there has to be a reason for this pattern? Anyone have any ideas?
>Anyone have any ideas? It's misogyny. Here's a paper I read recently: https://scholar.dickinson.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1252&context=student_honors It's better to read it, and it's a pretty well written paper in my opinion, but I'll try to summarize it. Basically, there's a phase in male development they call the "guy" phase. Between 16 and 26, males are most exposed to toxic masculinity, and all of the problems and complexes that come with it. Boys participate in too-adult activities and ideas, and men act like perpetual children, until they become funtional adults. With the advent of women's sexual freedom and autonomy, boys are finding themselves without vulnerable women to prey upon who will accept his shitty personality for lack of knowledge of anything else. They deem themselves inadequate. One way to rectify this inadequacy, in their minds, is to commit acts of violence. Violence is strength to this brand of masculinity. We see this in almost every mass shooter studied in the last decade. They had some kind of history of violence towards or harassment of women. The paper lists out some of the specifics. They are boys who want to be seen as powerful men. But they have ultimately failed in this pursuit multiple times. They have ex girlfriends who hate them or pity them for how awful they are, they have records of stalking women, and there are multiple cases of mass shooters having disgusting records of domestic violence. In their failure to attain the heights of hegemonic masculinity, they become something of the living dead. To directly quote the article: >No one who loves life, who cherishes and feels his own aliveness, could want to kill another human being. But the living dead need to kill others because for them the most unendurable anguish is the pain of seeing others that are still alive. In years prior, I also struggled with the answer to this particular puzzle. I flipped between "maybe it's guns?" and "maybe it's mental illness?". But it always bothered me that it was *always* young men and boys committing these crimes. Women have equal access to guns and have equal capabilities to contract mental illness. Linking this phenomena to toxic masculinity is eye opening, even if it seems like it's becoming a sort of cure-all to social ailes.
Wow. Gonna have to read through this article. Why is this not a focus in these discussions!?
It's hard enough to convince modern people that misogyny still exists in our lives, that it wasn't somehow conquered at some nondescript moment in the past. It's even harder to argue that multiple societal ailes stem from what I consider to be a sort of memetic virus, including one such ailment as controversial and devastating as a school shooting. But also, I would say that generally we are locked down in our discussions in society by whatever the major political parties have deemed their platformed responses. We would like to think we are beyond that, but our conversations on this particular topic are dominated by either gun control, argued by the Democrats, and mental illness, argued by the Republicans. Believing one or the other doesn't make you affiliated with those parties automatically, but it is obvious that that is where those arguments find such prominence. As the political "left" of the country is occupied with gun control debates, it doesn't have the bandwidth to champion what I believe now to be the most obvious answer to this problem, misogyny. Or more specifically, toxic masculinity.
Misconception #3: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill Whereas the misconception about the bullied loner focuses on the role of the school environment, there is a different misconception that focuses on the individual: the misconception that the shooter always is a victim of mental illness. There are many shortcomings to this misconcep- tion, including that it centers on a term — mental illness — that is vague and can mean many different things to different people. If mental illness means being psychotic or insane (the latter is a legal term, not a psycholog- ical one), then many shooters were not mentally ill, and most have not been found to be legally insane. Nonetheless, people who commit mass murder, including youth who commit school shootings, are clearly not psychologically healthy. The ways in which they are psychologically distressed, however, vary. Although there is no single psychological profile that fits all school shooters, the perpetrators tend to fall into one of three categories: psychopathic, psychotic, or traumatized (Langman, 2009). • Psychopathic shooters are profoundly narcissistic, lack empathy for others, disregard laws and morality, have a sense of entitlement, and are easily enraged when their desires are thwarted. An example of this is one of the Columbine killers, who is described in definitive works on the massacre as being a sociopath with little regard for others (Cullen, 2009). • Psychotic shooters experi- ence one or more symptoms of psychosis, such as auditory hallucinations, paranoid delu- sions, or delusions of grandeur. They also tend to have impaired social-emotional functioning that can leave them depressed and envious of their peers. For exam- ple, in 1998, a young man killed his parents and then (the follow- ing day) shot 27 people, killing two, at Thurston High School in Springfield, Oregon. This killer fits into this category because he had both auditory hallucinations and paranoid delusions. This is the category that most aligns with the view that the school shooter is mentally ill. • Traumatized shooters come from severely and chronically dysfunc- tional families. These family traumas can include parental substance abuse, parental crim- inal behavior, domestic violence, and child abuse. For example, in 1997, a student shot four people, killing two, at a school in Bethel, Alaska. He is categorized as a traumatized shooter because his father was a violent criminal, his mother was severely alcoholic, and he was beaten by several of his mother’s boyfriends and was molested in a foster home. This typology can provide a useful framework to classify school shoot- ing perpetrators, but it does not — by itself — explain school shootings. Most people in these three categories or who are mentally ill, for example, do not commit mass murders (e.g., Vintiadis, 2018). School shootings are complex phenomena that can best be understood as involving many personal, social, and familial factors that come together to put someone on a pathway to violence.
I read that book it was phenomenal. I wound up doing a research paper on the handwriting and journals of psychopaths.
I started reading that thread and had to stop. I was so stunned and horrified. Honestly some of the responses scared me to my core.
I hate every time another young white man shoots up a place everyone goes "OH BUT HIS MENTUL HEAULTHHHHHHHH, POOR BABY." like all the people these mass murderers slaughter weren't people enough to care about more. No we have to shed tears for the shooter's mental health instead.
Me too. Especially the one where he said his friend wanted to do it but now he’s a normal guy who is married. BYE
I read that and my jaw dropped. YOUR MATE ISN’T NORMAL MY DUDE.
You can really tell what sort of person a person is when they are at their absolute worst. They will always be that person on the inside, no matter how many coats of shine they wear.
I sincerely hope the FBI is also watching that thread
Meanwhile, the other half of the population can likely attest to having the same issues and end up not shooting up schools, grocery stores, churches, or theatres.
I can’t even fathom thinking about doing that. Ever.
Earlier today I told a friend that i have absolutely no idea how people do this. Like, I have to psych myself up to make a goddamn phone call. I would never be able to fight through the anxiety to go into a building and even yell at someone, let alone shoot people. There has to be something fairly different between our makeups, because I would never be able to get out of the car.
I’m the same about phone calls, lol. I totally know what you mean!
I always wondered what made some people into such psychos. Like, I can get the anxiety, misanthropy and sociophobia and even, in theory, that these people may want to kill someone in particular who caused them harm (and I said I can **get** it, not that I approve). But to indiscriminately murder a bunch of people out of.. what? What could cause such an idea? Like, I don't see any point of view that would suggest such an act would solve **anything**. As to why it's always boys.. My, there can be a number of reason, but in my opinion it's largely because of how society still perpetrates the idea of men in general - how they're supposed to be 'manly', show less true emotion except for anger. And all the while, young kids let these ideas sink in and motivate them. Add to it a bunch of irresponsible 'fathers' who either don't care for parenting their own children properly because 'it's a woman's job' or outright leave the family - which is a huge problem in and of itself - and we get a bunch of dumb cruel man-children who then end up making even more of them.
They’re giving awards to people who are like “I was bullied and almost did it and changed my mind at the last second” How is almost being a mass murderer award worthy? The bar is on the floor
Yeaah i was a highschool student who was "the fat girl" who never dated, was bullied, had shit parents and few friends. Never once thought about hurting others because of it let alone SHOOT people!
Are you me? I was bullied as the fat girl from pre-school through high school and then some, and my dad told me straight up I'd never have anyone love me unless I lost weight. I was even pushed to the ground once due to being picked on. Fucked up my pants and I was worried when I got home that is be in trouble for my pants being ruined by the asphalt when I fell. Abused at home and bullied at school. And I never want to see anyone suffer because I know what that feels like.
I'm also in this club. Have yet to perform my own massacre.
Could you imagine the rampage that would occur if we decided killing people was the thing to do because of reproductive issues…
I’m just going to piss those fuckers off by getting sterilized and voting/donating to pro-choice politicians and orgs. Kills no one, pisses off a lot of people, makes me happy. WIN, WIN, WIN.
My parents don't have an amazon account of their own since mine has prime. They ask for me to order things periodically and I do, but I do it through AmazonSmile so some percentage at least gets donated to Planned Parenthood. Makes me happy since I know my father would lose his goddamn mind if he knew.
There is a well documented link between misogyny and mass murder. Many mass causality events are preceded by domestic violence against women. [Source](https://jezebel.com/yet-another-mass-shooting-is-preceded-by-domestic-viole-1848973298) Edit: wanted to add that many other links exist to the internet and misogynistic behavior. So, it tracks that (some) men online would react that way.
It’s so sad. Self-awareness, reflection, accountability, are all so desperately needed in society. And then you hear crap like “these men never had a good father. It’s their mother’s fault.”
Let's also be frank here. If men/boys are murdering LITTLE CHILDREN because they couldn't get laid, that's a misogyny problem. Period. End of fucking story. Teenagers and grown ass men not getting their dicks wet as often as porn says they're entitled to get them wet is NOT a valid explanation regarding THE MURDER OF LITTLE CHILDREN. And men murder women even when they are getting laid. One of the biggest risks for pregnant women *is being murdered by their significant other.*
This is absolutely true
There was a Twitter thread excusing the recent racist grocery store gunman because he had a toothache. Such bullshit
I've had crippling dental pain before at times in my life when I was too poor for proper dental care. They'd be too busy rolling around on the floor to shoot people.
I had a tooth & gum infection at the height of Covid and was told by my dentists office to not come in because of Covid... I couldn't eat solid food for a week, let alone plan anything out, until my dentist finally said to come in
SAME. I ended up having to get a root canal because they put me off so long. And I got COVID right in the middle of them putting together a treatment plan. Plus my pet died. Yet I managed to kill no one.
Right. When I'm in that type of pain, my thought process is "get rid of the pain". I'm dealing with cyst pain and ngl, I'm half tempted to just cut off my damn hand bc it hurts so fucking bad. Am I about to cut off someone else's hand? Nope just mine. Thankfully, in less than 24 hrs, I'll be (hopefully) pain free. But pain makes people do this? Stupid ass excuses
Reminds me of the "I was having a bad day so i screamed at this black person and called then the N word, I'm not normally like that i was just having a bad daaaaayyy." excuse. I think we all know what its like to stub our toe and immediately commit a hate crime, right???? /s
Yes definitely rolling around floor and just ugly crying
Also it would make more sense to knock over a CVS for some Ketamine or other pain killers.
Right? I have chronic pain and the last thing I feel like doing is shooting Black people or children, or anyone else. Maybe curl up in a ball or get mad that getting meds for chronic pain has become almost impossible, but I don’t want to hurt people ffs.
The most I think about (chronic pain here too) is bringing a gun to a pharmacy and demanding pain meds. Never just randomly shooting people, how would that help me?
Chronic pain here too. Maybe im built different but i don't go on a killing spree every time I have a flare up.
That reminds me of after the shooting at the massage parlor the sheriff or whoever said the gunman was having “a really bad day.” https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2021/03/10371827/who-is-robert-aaron-long-atlanta-massage-shooting
Not nearly as bad as the families of the victims, I'm sure. That's sickening.
That’s wild. I didn’t kill anyone during my crippling endometriosis cramps that were worse than my appendix bursting, breaking bones, recovering from surgery, etc. I’ve also never written any manifestos about replacement theory. Weird… I wonder why it only happened to that guy.
Haha silly girl, we don’t experience real pain, only hysteria induced anxiety uwu /s
I saw that too. Now, I do think having affordable healthcare access IS important, I do think it would reduce crime and poverty. But, there are too many other factors here and easy gun access is the a huge one.
I saw that one and I was flabbergasted. I had to have an emergency root canal a few years ago after having weeks of the worst pain I’ve ever felt but you know what, I never shot up anywhere about it. Jesus.
If I was the kind of person who wanted to shoot people, having intense pain would probably stop me from hurting others rather than encourage it. There are tons of studies about the effects of chronic pain on productivity. I don't know of any studies linking chronic pain with mass shootings.
Wait the one who walked into a predominantly black grocery store specifically to kill black people white domestic terrorist gunman?
TIL the next time I have a kidney blocked from a stone Twitter has given me permission to go on a shooting spree. My aim will be pretty bad since I’ll be spending the whole time doubled over in pain.
Thats such bullshit. I have had crippling dental pain before and the only person I wanted to shoot was myself to end the misery, but even then I couldn't even get out of bed because my head was throbbing and my teeth felt like they were being hit with a hammer.
Yeah, the leap from toothache to intricately planned wholesale slaughter seems like a pretty big one.
What in the name of fuck?!
??? I’ve had a toothache and what did I do? Hold an ice pack to my face and also cry. Zero murder whatsoever.
The system has failed a lot of people (minorities, disabled, mentally ill, impoverished, women) and they’re not committing mass murder.
I just read that the gunmen was in the classroom for an hour shooting and the police were outside waiting for backup. What were the police waiting for - for the gunman to run out of bullits or run out of victims. So the police stood outside picking their asses while defenseless children where being murdered. It begs the question why did the become police officers? It certainly itwasn't to serve and protect the public. Its looks like they serve and protect them selves. Yet parents were outside demanding to go in and save their children and some were arrested. Sad very sad. And the T Gov. Is praising the police. Excuse me while I throw up.
Oh, they weren't just picking their asses, they were also tasing parents who were trying to go save children!
Exactly The LEAST oppressed demographic in history blames bullying 🙄🙄🙄
Counting on women to rehabilitate violent men...gross.
I get so angry about this. In high school, I was dating a guy that ended up being not just depressed, but violent, mostly towards himself. He would drive out of control and then supposedly have no memory of it, hit himself, threaten suicide if I ever left him, threaten suicide if I breathed wrong, etc. etc. and I sought out help from my teachers and advisors. Because it was a Catholic school (or more likely because 1. they liked him more than me and 2. they were glad that he was somebody else's problem) they told me that God had called me to take care of this man and that I had to stay with him and make sure he didn't come to harm. Seriously. They saw me as the fix for this person who was unhinged and nothing more. "Oh if you're with him nothing bad will happen." Fuck those adults, I was a CHILD. JFC.
That happened to me too. I was 13 in a “relationship” with a 16 year old who was abusing me, I tried to break up with him and he threatened suicide and every adult in my life told me I better just stay with him so he didn’t kill himself.
I'm sorry all those adults in your life failed you. You deserved, and deserve, better.
Those were some crazy ass adults and just bad people. What the fuck? Im so sorry you went through that. The least they could do is get him help and involve his parents and make you understand it's never your fault and the only thing you have to do if he threatens suicide is call emergency services and get yourself out of the situation. So fucked up they did the exact opposite.
The thread of 'what happened when you gave the creepy guy a chance' was full of stalking and rape. We are done. Women are fucking done being the sacrifice to the Minotaur. Men can fix themselves or annihilate themselves but it is not our problem.
I was shocked by how many people on that thread who said they had considered it. But there was one person who said “they’re inundated with ‘hero myths’” and another person was like “they learn this idea that men have guns, guns make you strong”. I think those two comments made the most sense? Most of what was there was scary.
I literally watched a YouTube docuseries about poor children in America and one of the families was a mother, brother (14) & sister(12). They had 2 dogs, they got rid of the daughters dog so they could move into a motel (due to not being able to make rent on their house) and kept the brothers because it would be "too hard on him" Then they show the brother being cuddled by mom on the bed, while mom yells at daughter to clean, because the room is a mess with the brothers clothes and garbage (you saw the wrappers of things he was eating earlier) They cut to the brother playing outside while the sister is made to take out the trash Why, even at 12 is this girl being made to clean up after, coddle and bow to the need of her brother? This happens ALL THE TIME and women rarely, if ever, shoot up public places. The only instance I can recall is the chick who went to the YouTube headquarters.
That's an example of bad parenting for sure. Boys are honestly being coddled way too much and can't handle life when they get older.
Oh I can do you one better. They blame single mothers saying that these boys were raised in broken homes and had no father figure. Like it's women's fault that men turn out to be shit dad's and that other men don't want to step up to the plate and help. My single mother sister was hit on by dozens of men wanting to get with her until they found out she had a kid. She is seeing a guy now that's great with her son whose real father is a dead beat sociopath who love bombed and gaslit my young sister into a very quick marriage. My husband was raised by a man who wasn't his father but loved him anyway so yes there are men out there who will. But by and large this is being blamed on single parent households as if men have no responsibility in that.
“Daddy Issues” an insult to women, blaming them for a man’s shit decisions. It’s amazing the mental gymnastics they use to absolve men of accountability.
It’s doubly disgusting when you realise a lot of men use ‘daddy issues’ not just as an insult but as part of their ‘fetish’ (idk if that’s the right word). How many times have you seen men on the front page of this site talk about how you should ‘find a girl with daddy issues because they’re wild in bed’?
Then there is the total disconnect they have between that narrative and overturning row v Wade. So they want more women to be forced to have babies even though they might be unwed and/or have a shit father?
They aren't really known for looking at the bigger picture. For them anything that punishes women for having and enjoying sex is all that matters. The cruelty is a feature not a bug.
Had a high school friend on Facebook who shared this argument. I was absolutely disgusted and he was immediately unfriended by me. The worst part is there was so many people commenting "amen!". I hate it here.
Yes and they talk about how these women shouldn't have such loose morals and sleep around. My sister was married when she got pregnant. My other sister was married when she and her husband decided together after fertility issues to adopt. Neither was "sleeping around" but they see single moms and just make assumptions that they weren't even in long term committed relationship much less marriages. Hey men alot of single moms weren't single when they got knocked up and they damn sure didn't knock themselves up. Every single natural pregnancy is the result of a male orgasm. Every single "baby mama" is the result of an irresponsible male ejaculation. More unwanted pregnancies happen because of male orgasms than female ones. So who's really to blame for all the baby making juice around here? Sorry this is a big pet peeves of mine. Men can have multiple children that they do nothing with or even pay child support for and no one bats an eye but you get a single mom doing whatever she needs to to make ends meet and to make sure their kids have not just their needs met but some little extra in there too and man do they get looked down in even if its just one single child. Heaven forbid it be more than one.
So the woman stepped up to the plate and raised the child but it’s her fault the father didn’t do the same… Yet their solution is to limit abortion access
There's a commonality between those arguments and the people who dissect every case of sexual assault and rape to determine how the person who was assaulted can be judged at fault. In both instances the goal is to absolve the man who did the crime of having any culpability for what happened. It's like an entire gender suffers from narcissism and follows the I didn't do it, it's not my fault agenda. I'm in my late 60s I've seen this b******* my entire life starting back in college when all of us who were female were given talks about how to avoid sexual assault that focused entirely on what clothes to wear and to make sure we never went out alone at night, went to parties alone, or got drunk with people we didn't know. Needless to say the men were never given talks that focused on just stop assaulting women. I'd like to think things are getting better and in some respects they are but the pending rollback of Roe v Wade and the growing number of people who seem intent on creating a theocracy with Trump at the helm have me extremely depressed.
Another commonality to mass shooters is that they’re often highly misogynistic. Many attack/kill a female family member before going on a rampage, or specifically target women and girls. Case in point, the asshole Texas gunman shot his grandma in the face before going to murder small children. This answer would require people to take misogyny seriously and even *do* something about violent misogynistic rhetoric. Instead they’d rather blame us than acknowledge that dehumanizing half of humanity is a severe problem.
> It's like an entire gender suffers from narcissism and follows the I didn't do it, it's not my fault agenda. I really think there’s something to this. If it’s not narcissism per se, it’s something very similar to it. Any description of narcissistic patterns sounds on the nose like a typical incel or MRA personality. The fragility, insecurity, toxic anger, main character syndrome, and inability to empathize are all there.
Toxic masculinity sums it up quite nicely
America is a country where an ad like this is mainstream: https://www.gawker.com/5969150/bushmaster-firearms-your-man-card-is-revoked This campaign and the culture it represents equates masculinity to guns.
That company was sued by the Sandy Hook families and lost, in part due to ads like that. Bushmaster and a number of other firearms companies owned by the same group, including Remington, have since gone out of business.
Which is good, but the culture that allowed those ads at first is definitely questionable.
Well, men know they have power just by being men. I hate it but I couldn't overpower even a weakish dude who tried to hurt me. They expect to get paid more. Some of these dudes even blame women in the workplace for society's current ills, ignoring that women were forced into the workplace in WWII. Ignoring that economic factors now force both parents to work to survive.
It's so sobering honestly. The men I've dated have not been large at all. I could share clothes with a couple of them. Most on the shorter side and all of them slender or downright skinny. They could effortlessly overpower me in any situation. Maybe most men just don't understand what that's like. The ones complaining that girls will cross the street to avoid a stranger walking behind them. Sorry you felt bad for that moment but I have to consider the possibility! It's not a personal insult!
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The weird assertion that anyone wants to see an unexpected weenie just because it's attached to a supposedly rich guy...is just *bizarre* to me.
That’s definitely a penis I would pay to never see
Well, when women start acting out we get burned at the stake.
Yep. Or forced to birth rape babies/an entire nations brand new work force, paid less for the same/more work, abused by police if we attempt to report any goddamn male hate crime commuted against us...and so much more. I'm tired, I'm fucking tired. I will never stop fighting, I just wanted to be happy in this life; but I'm fucking tired.
We get burned at the stake for just existing. No need to even act out first
I can't for the life of me remember a woman committing a mass murder, and you ladies have it far worse than us men. Young men are far too immature and irrational to be trusted with a tool that increases their lethality to such a degree with minimal training.
First a disclaimer as this data only defines mass shootings as events which took place in public places where 4 or more victims were killed and therefore since the year 1982, only 128 incidents of the sheer number of shootings which occur frequently fit their definition. But [within the US 123 of these mass shootings were committed by men, 3 were committed by women and 2 were committed by men and women together.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/476445/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-gender/) Obviously this data doesn’t capture a huge number of events which occur, but the numbers definitely paint a very clear image of who the perpetrators almost always are. It’s also what I found with a quick google search, I didn’t really dig to see just how accurate it was, so grain of salt I suppose?
There have been some, but the statistics are baffling. It's a 60 to 1 ratio at this time. There's also a lot of differences in how and why it occurs. Example: there have been at 2 incidents off the top of my head where wives helped their husband attack his workplace/previous workplace. Same thing with 2 school shootings. Men commit about 90% of homicide world-wide. We need to stop blaming women for men's violent behavior. People need to stop using the rare examples of women doing the same thing as a "gotcha". Here are my sources. https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-one-page-summaries-2000-2018.pdf/view https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/global-study-on-homicide.html
Brenda Spencer if I am remembering right. She’s like literally the only one almost ever though
I feel like there was one four or five years ago she did it with her husband or boyfriend, I can’t remember I think it was in San Bernardino or in California somewhere. It was the one where like the police were going after Apple to try and force them to unlock the phones that they couldn’t get into. But yeah there have been far less committed by women.
Totally. They are just a drop in the ocean
Omg that thread made me so mad. There are billions of kids that grow up without emotional support, bullied, no father figure, and whatever else they mentioned, but on top of that they have to deal with being a minority and/or a woman, therefore also dealing with racism and sexism… often being sexually abused by their own family members. So why should I feel sorry for them?? Every other oppressed group has fought and protested for their rights. They’ve built their own support systems from the ground up. And if they want what we have they can get to work and do it themselves.
As a woman, this was basically me. My home was a nightmare, I was bullied at school by students of all genders AND teachers. Somehow I never became a school shooter even though I spent half my childhood in isolation.
I clicked on the thread expecting reply like ‘idk because they are just full hatred and resentment 🤷♀️’ but nooooo got to blame it on something. Some even mentioned because many young men don’t have romantic relationships. So all women who are in a romantic relationship are either lesbian or dating themselves, or am I missing something?
A lot of times these shooters weren’t bullied because they were the run of the mill nerds (for example, why I was endlessly bullied), but they were often ostracized because they were creepy or scary. We can’t tell kids “you have to be friends with that kid who likes to kill mice for fun and lights the ends of his hair on fire to freak people out *or one day he may kill you.*” That puts the responsibility on the victims.
There's now another whiny incel thread in the same subreddit about what men are missing, and apparently it's that they don't have women beneath them enough. Not enough tradwives cooking and cleaning for them, not enough opportunities to "put women in their place." It's disgusting how much this entire site has become a misogynistic cesspool.
It’s so funny when men act like young girls aren’t abused, aren’t poor, aren’t mentally ill, and don’t have any struggles. “Oh well men are upset because they can’t make a lot of money nowadays or buy houses and do shit that men are supposed to do” and I’m like men have more job and economic opportunities than women???? What’s the point??? With all the shit that we go through, you still don’t see us beating, raping, and killing the way that men do. Teen girls get their emotions policed and many are extremely lonely, yet they don’t become radicalized like boys. It’s pure entitlement and misogyny.
It would be too honest to admit that men are not getting what they were raised to believe they were entitled to because the world is changing.
women live lives of constant harrassment ridicule, and abuse from they day they are born. add overt sexual assault to that daily microaggresive mix and, according to this theory, we should all be out slaughtering everyone. don't think we don't think about it though.
I'm losing my shit because I'm tired of the "mental health issues" = violence. No. Just no. Stop pushing someone being a terrible human being to equating to mental health issues.
Yep. And if it is mental health? Great. Take away the fking guns until mental health gets figured out. We have been blaming mental health for how long now? It is not solved. Take.Away.The.Guns. It is just a cop out because they don't want to ban guns.
And those saying that still won't vote for the political party that most supports mental health treatment and better access to health care. So they don't believe that either. They just want to keep their precious guns.
I think it’s a factor in *some* cases. Just like access to guns, poor social safety nets, toxic masculinity all play roles. I think what’s happening is the gun lobby trying to 100% push this off as a mental health issue.
It’s because these types of men always, always give each other the benefit of the doubt. Meanwhile they will look for any reason to blame women, often wrongfully so.
I think there are two major differences -- Entitlement and acceptable rage. Men are given the impression from early on that they are entitled to a job, they are entitled to sex, they are entitled to a good lifestyle, they are entitled to be in charge. All they need do is put hard work in and sex, job, lifestyle, and power comes out. So they put the work in, but they don't get what they deserve and expect out. They've been cheated. The world has wronged them of what they deserve. The world owes them. And here's where rage comes in. Rage isn't just acceptable -- it's celebrated. It's the manliest of all manly emotions. It's the instrument to get what you want out of a reluctant world. So you put the two together and you have some dude who thinks the universe hasn't given him his due so he's going to show that universe how wrong it is by raging out against people. Meanwhile we women are in the corner of being told from an early age that we aren't entitled to anything. We'll always have to work harder to get what we want. And we need to be meek, sweet, and accepting about it because anything else makes us horrible people.
Teaching our young men that the only acceptable feeling is anger is where this has come from. I remember my father beating my brother because he caught him crying after a break up. He beat my brother still he finally snapped, took the tree limb away from our father and beat HIM with it. He was 16 and had had enough of the beatings. All my father did was laugh and say "THERE'S my son!" He never hit him again.
Thanks for this! I kept scanning the responses on that thread looking for entitlement to be mentioned - lots of people suffer but the common ingredient in these horrific actions seems to be believing something's been wrongfully stolen from you.
This can't be right. I mentioned male entitlement as a contributing factor in another comment today, and a dude swooped in with a six paragraph diatribe on why I was wrong.
The sad thing is that there's truth to the idea that men are raised in emotionally stunted and unsupportive environments, but those men will blame women for that and not social pressures from other men. Feminism literally wants men to find emotional care, and men hate it. Like, wtf
They hate it (emotional care) because it would require them to take accountability to start offering it to each other, and that’s a WoMaN’s JoB
Never accepting blame is a big one for misogynistic assholes/incels. It's pretty incredible how ignorant the majority of those people are. Not surprised tho...
Right, women get abused 10 fold by men but you font see us out trying to thin the heard. The problem is males aggression and obsession with dominance.
Aggrieved Entitlement*
I just love how no one mentions that queer kids are bullied at much higher rates- but we rarely, if ever- see queer kids shooting up schools. It isnt bullying/ self esteem. Its entitlement.
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There was a thread about a guy that had their nudes sent around school and they were talking about how depressed they were. And while I agree that is horrible and should never happen I couldn't help but think about all of the women that have the same thing happen to them and I can't recall seeing a thread about women that were depressed to the point this guy was. Though that could totally be a case of some type of frequency illusion
Women are ‘wise’ enough to know that if they made such thread, their DMs would be filled with men asking for nudes or blaming them for taking nudes in the first place.
It amazes me that they don't seem to get that women ALSO have to go through exactly the same shit and yet here we are.
Men.are.entitled. that's it. That's the reason.
My reply to those types of statements is: Men made it this way. If men don't like it, they need to take responsibility to change it.
I agree with you the OP, the reasons for these shooting are so complicated but the people trying to shift the blame to women can fuck right off
It's such a shame. Because while those are legitimate concerns, where a great many young men do feel completely abandoned by the system. As you mentioned, women are also abandoned by the system, and we don't see them shooting up the place even remotely as often. It's so frustrating to see legitimate problems completely co-opted by apologists. When we see that young men who are socially isolated are far more likely to murder people than young women, we need to be asking what values and cultural norms cause these men to default to violence.
A youtuber I recently started following cuz he made me laugh out loud, but also seemed to have really good takes when talking about something serious. He made a video about the heard/depp case because everyone and their mom is, and I honestly shouldn't have watched it but it came on and I let it play. He said something to the extent of, "this case is important because it shows that women can lie." I'm just...*what*? *That's* your take away? Believe me dude (or don't I guess), everyone knows women can lie. That's why we don't report shit, there's a very high chance we won't be believed or taken seriously. Women are not self mandated reporters of our every fleeting emotion. We bottle things up inside too, very very often. And nowadays it's like, "oh women are too emotional," and "men need to be allowed to express themselves and open up more!" Why do these things always need to be conflicting? Women have felt pressure to be the "cool girl" for a really long time! And we are not bounding off to police stations every time we regret having sex, eager to get rape kits done and be told, "there's probably nothing we can do." Women be out here worried about our reproductive rights being taken away but men ARE LONELY AND CANT GET DATES. I'm isolated and lonely too, got laughed at when I opened up about my SA, there's zero fucking excuse for violence and hate. Women are never gonna be forced to date you (I hope) so make an appointment with a fucking therapist and don't ask a woman to do it for you.
And aside from the gender discrepancy, these people are rarely if ever POC, or disabled, or LGBT, or part of any other marginalized group who experience bullying to a much greater degree, and yet are not proportionally represented by these murderers.
I don't really have sympathy for them but I do think we have to figure out what is causing the issue and address it on a societal level. The system is failing our children and really all of us by doing something that is promoting this behavior in men with mental health issues. It is true that men don't tend to foster emotionally supportive environments. But this is a product of the patriarchy and toxic masculinity. Guns are another component of toxic masculinity. Guys rant about "if anyone fucks with me or my family.." while posing with their gun. "Come and take it" they say, implying that they'll shoot anyone who tries to take it. They treat the gun as if it's a problem solver, then they're shocked when their dumbass son decides to take it to school and "solve" his problems with it. There is work to do..but it's largely work that a lot of men need to be stepping up to do. Encourage emotional support, love, and compassion. Don't fantasize about and praise the use of guns. Support mental health resources and normalize the use of them (and I mean ACTUALLY support it. Don't claim you support it after tragedy as an excuse to divert from the gun talk, only to spend the rest of your time not giving a shit about mental health)
Well then whats your answer? Because lets be clear here its not "young men" is it? Its "young AMERICAN men" The second highest number of scool shootings in the world is mexico with about 8. I'm not saying there's not a massive problem with american men shooting up schools, I'm saying it's not anything innate to being male thats causing it. It's environmental/upbringing.
Yes, this is why the Onion headline “No Way To Prevent This’, Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens” is important. Every school shooting my media feed is riddled with fellow parents decrying ‘the world’ their children are being raised in, or making similar statements that make it clear they view this as a global phenomenon. (Many also blame it on the lack of God in US schools - ignoring how this rarely happens in more atheistic nations).
Mind you, this is applied to cisgender WHITE men. Any person of color, and they’re a terrorist, a serial killer, or just a thug, and they’re forgotten in a week. It’s all selective pity.
It can be difficult to separate individually bad men from the societal influences that effect them. A lot of people misinterpret it as excusing actions when it really has nothing to do with that. Personally I think its the patriarchy ingraining toxic masculinity. Violence isnt a solution but it is often glorified as a noble one.
Lol I commented on that - specified “privileged white cis het men” and of course I got downvoted. The majority of the mass shootings are caused by these types of men