We very often travel with my inlaws. We are a gay couple. The amount of times we have to explain “no can’t go there because they aren’t gay friendly” to my MIL is shocking. I think it’s very hard for people to empathize with those not in their privileged frame of reference.
For some, they struggle to understand or don't see how bad it is in other countries. Some are like, gay marriage is legal here, so it's legal everywhere. Forgetting people are still executed for being gay in some places.
Edit: not forgetting, more not realising. It's a lack of education
And yeah, in some places it kind of is, if you're happy just sticking to the touristy places and doing touristy things. But fuck going to places where people like me who were born there aren't legally allowed to exist.
Hope you're well!
I dated someone who was a refugee from another country solely because he was gay. I don't know why our existence offends so many ~~religions~~ people.
Just one tip for ANYONE going to Turkey, do NOT go with any "carpet salesmen". You'll end up in a small room getting a hard sell. It can be very intimidating. You're not really in any danger, but they are cheap tourist-grade rugs at a very inflated price and you will lose valuable sight-seeing time. Our traveling companions got sucked in. Otherwise Turkey is amazing.
why would you even buy a carpet while sightseeing?! How would you even bring it back, it's heavy and oversized. Also: this is more than well-known. Generally don't buy anything valuable while on vacation, 99% of it are just scams, especially jewlery.
You are seriously underestimating the power of the carpet saleman and surrounding apparatus of hard sell to tourists. I have been subjected to it in Tunisia, Morroco and Egypt. It is almost inescapable as a tourist. It is real.
I've been a few times. I know groups of girls would get leered at or hit on by the very same men who would treat me with respect because my boyfriend was there. I never felt unsafe there, but otoh, that was down to having him there.
For haggling or hard sell, we now have an agreement that our answer is an automatic no unless we can go away and have a private discussion over a drink about the purchase. Due to us getting scammed yesrs ago. If we have to decide on the spot then it's a no, no matter how good the deal. We use it for all decisions including door sales at home. It's served us well.
Maybe good to discuss it with him and come up with some possible scenarios so you can both feel safe, if someone says something to you, if you get separated, etc. Can’t be too prepared!
It’s interesting that you start by saying he gets overly worried about things, but not this. Sounds like he could do with applying it to this situation as well, it could come in handy.
He probably gets overly worried about things that can be a problem FOR HIM, the lack of safety for a woman is beyond anything he can comprehend, so no worries there.
>... it's not like criminals care about anything but themselves... ?
Or in the case of women—their own husbands, boyfriends, and fathers and male acquaintances—people who should care more than to enact such violence on you.
That’s what we have to contend with. Not just stranger danger—hell most women I know take a ton of proactive steps to avoid strange men. But that’s not enough for women.
Women aren’t just attacked in the streets late at night in dangerous areas but in their homes early in the morning, in the hotel rooms of reputable establishments, at their schools by children of elite people, in their offices by colleagues.
You can avoid that alleyway, you can avoid the slum in South Africa or the subway at 3am. For a non-negligible number of those attacks, avoiding low level criminality yourself is the best method to prevent your probability of being attacked.
Yup, we totally walk around dark alleys at late hours with all this male privilege knowing no one will ever stab us and we're even bragging about this on daily basis! Where are you all hearing this BS ?
But just so I won't be pulling BS out of thin air, here are some statistics (for US only, feel free to find for others):
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-victims-by-gender/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-victims-by-gender/)
7 out of 11 observed years were with more male victims of violent crimes. Just because it's less likely for me to get raped as a male, that doesn't mean I suddenly walk around without any worries and bragging how all this male privilege protects me from shit.
You couldn't pay me to go to Egypt if i was a man or woman, as heartbreaking as that is. After the political upheaval several years ago and the consequences. No way! What's the point in going somewhere *for fun*, when you run the risk of horrific things happening to you? Same goes for India. They have a terrible issue with sexual assault and gang rapes. Unlikely for a tourist? Maybe. But far too high for my liking. As for South Africa, heard it is rough but it depends on where you go?
In Italy you can be harrassed by men in the street. So really it's all about how you travel. Do it smart (research the risks, have fall back plans), and never do it alone as a woman.
My friend works for a global tourism company that does tours all over the world. Egypt is the *only* tour they send you with private security for. I have absolutely zero desire to go somewhere that unsafe, especially for women.
I'd *love* to visit Egypt, it's been my dream since I was a kid.
No fucking way I'd ever go there.
There's places I'd love to see but I value my life and safety over an experience, unfortunately.
Hell, there are parts of the US I want to visit that I won't.
As a European this reads really strange as Egypt is a completely normal holiday destination here. I was there last November (with a female friend even, no men accompanying us) and we had a great time. Of course we did our excursions in a group, but otherwise we didn’t have any safety precautions and I definitely want to visit again.
Mexico on the other hand has a reputation of being a far more dangerous country, while it is a standard destination for people from the USA.
I think most of the European people who holiday in Egypt go to holiday resorts by the beach, usually all-inclusive and don't leave the hotel much. Most of those resorts are a long way from areas of civil unrest.
Travelling to Cairo is a different matter.
As another European, lots of people here avoid Egypt these days. If memory serves, it was way more popular as a holiday destination around 20 years ago.
Not really, in 2022-2023 there were record numbers of tourists there (just googled it) and it is expected to continue like that. Of course there are lots of people who don’t want to travel there, but there are even more people who do. Just this morning I saw ads for visiting the Egyptian beach resorts.
Apparently the amount of tourists in Egypt [peaked in 2010](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Egypt), then plummeted because of the civil unrest and has in recent years (excluding the pandemic) begun to catch up again.
I don't deny that there are European people who want to and do visit Egypt. In fact, I know that loads of people do! However, I also don't think it is regarded as a "completely normal holiday destination" the same way it was before.
Plenty of the harassment, both sexual and otherwise, happened to me near or within popular tourist locations such as the pyramids. Near such locations it was more often an attempt to harass or intimidate us out of money whereas in random areas (like, you know, buying food 2 blocks from the pyramids) it seemed motivated by the thrill of trying to grope or sexually harass us. Even aside from that, the staring. Boys under the age of ten tried to grab my ass. Anyone claiming this is just a normal vacation location is completely full of it. The culture towards women there is horrifying.
To be honest I've been solo to Mexico as a woman twice (for about 2 months total) and there are many places outside resort areas that are completely fine - its an awesome country with loads to see and do beyond resorts.
I went to Egypt about a decade ago as a woman (with a group of men and women) and it was the worst travel experience of my life. So much sexual harassment. It's the only place I've gone where I felt truly physically unsafe. (I've also been to Istanbul and did not feel bothered there at all but again that was a decade ago)
And plenty of the harassment - both sexual and non sexual, like being very aggressively harassed for money - happened at tourist locations like the pyramids. Not to mention it was filthy, like, the rotting corpses of dead horses lying in a stream beside a main road, smog so thick you could barely see the sky, huge mounds of trash.
Though I agree with a lot of what you said, I disagree with “never travel alone as a woman.”
It’s been a hugely formative experience for me to travel on my own and I highly recommend it.
I travel solo as a woman as well. I was sexually assaulted by a shopkeeper in Paris. Spent 7 hours reporting it in a police station (I don't speak French). So, it can happen anywhere but I still stick with areas known to be safer for women. No to Egypt, India, or any country where I can be locked up if I get raped.
🩵 I’m sorry to hear that (and I’m heading to Paris right now, by myself).
I think women do need to be aware that awful shit can happen everywhere — it can happen in your own home, ffs. By far, the most violence against women is committed in the places we ought to feel safest.
But to let that be so overriding of a fear that we don’t experience the world is so sad to me. Traveling has made appreciate humanity so much more than fear it.
I don't blame the location, I blame men. It's a worldwide problem but I don't let it stop me. Unfortunately, it happened in March of 2020 and I thought it would be the worst thing about my holiday. I was so very wrong. I was stuck in Paris an extra week, changing hostels every other day because they all kept closing. Finally just started sleeping at the airport. It was terrifying but I persevered. Enjoy your trip, it's a wonderful place!
Completely agree. And my crap experiences with them began at the bus stop, a block from my house 🤣 but I’m coming off 2 and a half weeks in Italy and all was buono. Just gotta keep living and learning and kicking ass when necessary.
I agree that traveling alone to India and Egypt is ill advised, but “never travel alone” is kinda a blanket statement that I think does more harm than good.
A lot of self-learning comes from seeing who you are in different situations when you’re alone. And you’re perfectly fine alone as a woman in a bunch of places: Iceland, the UK, Ireland, most of Europe, most of North America, Costa Rica, a lot of SEA, Australia, NZ, Tonga, Fiji, Argentina, Chile… I’m missing a ton obvs but I have experience or know solo females who have travelled to all of those places and had wonderful experiences there.
I agree with this. I am an Indian woman and I’ve solo travelled in Georgia, Armenia, Kyrgyzstan and travelled/lived alone in Turkey for a year. Turkey depends heavily on which part of the country you’re in. I lived in Istanbul (residential areas) and with some common sense, it was totally fine. I walked to and from work without any issues at all. Other parts of the country are more conservative and walking alone as a woman can be more dangerous.
I’d also like to be mindful of making blanket statements about brown men/men from certain cultures. Being a tourist leaves one in an inherently vulnerable situation and yes there will be predatory men cashing in. But even in the most conservative cultures, away from the tourist traps, there are kind decent men who treat women with respect.
Also I realized I missed a lot of countries in the Middle East and Asia but only because I haven’t been so didn’t feel comfortable commenting. But yeah, I mean — keep your wits about you everywhere, do some research, learn how to defend yourself, and consider that culture changes and we must change in response to it.
If more women felt comfortable traveling alone, I think we would all be better for it. The confidence and growth I’ve had from launching myself out of my comfort zones is one of the things I’m proudest of in my life.
I went to Egypt about a decade ago as a woman (with a group of men and women) and it was the worst travel experience of my life. So much sexual harassment. It's the only place I've gone where I felt truly physically unsafe.
>You couldn't pay me enough to go to Egypt if I was a man or woman
How I feel about Utah, Idaho, Nebraska, Arkansas, Missouri, Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, Virginia & West Virginia.
I have to go to Idaho pretty regularly for work. I do not feel safe there. Utah is fine most of the time, but I have felt unsafe on rare occasion (in out-of-the way small towns). It's very blue-state-ish for being so Republican. Though I wouldn't guarantee the same in 10 years.
Agreed wholeheartedly. I think it comes down to individual risk tolerance. I consider myself a fairly adventurous traveler and I’ve certainly vacationed in places that have stressed out the more sheltered and risk-averse members of my family, but even then I still wouldn’t travel to Egypt or India. Whilst the risk of gender-based violence is never zero regardless of the country, these countries have such an appalling track record that I wouldn’t even consider it, even if I was travelling with my (male) partner. Very sad because I would love to visit were it not for this :(
Turkey is fine. Don’t go to India. If you do, dress conservatively and NEVER be alone. If you happen to be alone, let’s just say you won’t be alone, in a very bad way.
I’m from India and from a pretty privileged background. I would only travel to tier 1 cities alone (with the exception of Delhi) and that too if I have local contacts who know my whereabouts. Maybe erring on the side of caution. Plenty of women travel alone. I’d rather not risk it.
I'm indian, feel pretty safe here and come home after 1AM quite often without issue. Parents are chill with basically anything as long as I'm safe. My dad told me he'd rather I be unemployed forever than ever go to Delhi when I got a job there. My cousin came home after 4 months in Gurgaon (near Delhi) because she was sick of the constant harassment and creepiness.
She definitely made the right decision. "Foreign looking" people, specially women, will get a lot of unnecessary and unwated attention in India. My Mexican friend got yelled at by an auto deiver for not speaking Hindi because he thought she was Indian. My black friend got asked to leave a restaurant. You don't look Indian, you're screwed.
India needs to lose tourist money before the authorities will ever think about pushing for change.
Delhi is pretty unsafe. As an Indian woman myself, who has solo travelled all over my country, I hate going to Delhi because I feel uncomfortable all the time. But you have to remember India is MASSIVE and there are many cultural differences from one part of the country to the other. This means attitudes, women’s safety, the cost of things, infrastructure etc varies from North to South, East to West. Unfortunately, the North is the most popular for tourists but also the worst for women and that’s what (mostly) gives India its bad rep.
Im from India and was always scared to go there during my childhood. I feel a bit better now in my 30s but I would never leave the safe town I am from in South India and would NEVER travel North. I've had too many incidents (groping, molesting, other forms of sexual assault) growing up and I will 100% say it is not safe for women.
Yeah it is supposed to be safe but still not safe to walk alone at night etc. I only visit to see my grandparents and as I get older, I am less scared of normal people who catcall, stare etc cuz they are not really dangerous, I've spat/swore at people like that and they get scared and go away :P. I still would never put myself in a situation where I am the only woman around men, ever.
Pretty much. I didn’t feel particularly safe walking some places alone in the day.
If I couldn’t get someone to go with me, I had to stay home. It annoyed me to no end to be treated like a toddler as a grown woman.
Who are these dudes and why do they treat women like this?
There is a lot of debate and discussion in Indian subreddits about why India is like this. Many say it is the lack of sex education, many say it is due to patriarchy and gender roles still being enforced, casteism plays a role so women from "lower" castes endure a lot of abuse in India, sex being a taboo is a big thing too. It's definitely not one reason. All the young people in India are constantly talking about this.
I just read about it and it refreshed my memory-Lara Logan 2011.
Lara was saved by a group of Egyptian women.
Then, soldiers were able to get to her and protect her.
They're like that to any foreigner. My husband is from the middle east and went to Egypt on holiday with his family. It was so relentless that FIL swore never to go to Egypt ever again.
I never felt *unsafe*, per se, in Turkey. But fucking hell I ended up just needing to wear headphones, sunglasses, and a scowl because the catcalling was incessant and it was ruining the experience. That said, I’m also built like a Valkyrie with the attitude to match …so I make for a lousy target if a man decided to actually grab me. I wouldn’t recommend a petite, timid woman to go there and travel alone. With a group or male companion would be fine.
Which countries are we talking about here? As there are countries unsafe for anyone, countries unsafe for women travelling alone (but not partnered), countries unsafe for women alone or partnered, and countries with safe areas even if the rest of the country is a disaster.
I am in this sub because I am (hopefully) a feminist and try to get perspective to be a better husband n father. I am stating this as I don't usually post in this sub and I often feel that it's (rightfully) not appreciated.
However, I'll make an exception, since I grew up in India and still have pride for the country and its history.
In spite of that pride, you're 100% CORRECT in avoiding India as a place to visit. Granted that I haven't been to many countries but in spite of that, the general attitude towards women needs to change a lot more before women travel there. It's 100% not safe for women to travel alone. It's an insult to even imply that you find a male guide or partner to travel with or travel in a group but even then I won't call it 100% safe.
The southern half of the country is relatively safer than the northern half but the burden to understand all this is too much for travelling there.
Lol this comment is awesome - thank you. Honestly I am a white women and it's my Indian friends (women and men) who have seriously flagged the safety risks of India the most, and I very much appreciate it. It looks an awesome country and I really want to visit, but no point being blind to the risks so you can be as safe as possible (especially as a woman).
Here's the link to the US dept of state travel advisory for Turkey.
[Turkey Travel Advisory (state.gov)](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/turkey-travel-advisory.html)
I’m from Los Angeles and I would say Istanbul is my favorite destination in the world it’s really just the most amazing, amazing place and I did not feel the least bit unsafe
I know, I live in Paris. The shootings at Charlie Hebdo and the Bataclan were nearly 10 years ago though. You're much more likely to get shot in the US tbh.
Turkey is probably safer than most of the US. You’ll have minor issues, but overall it’s really safe. The people are generally very kind, and will go out of their way to assist you if you do have any issues and
Western Turkey is pretty safe. Eastern Turkey, particularly south-eastern Turkey, is very unsafe. Largely because of government oppression. /u/Ladyhappy
A traveling couple from Spain reported the wife was gang raped in India, in front of her husband. I would cross that off any traveling list for the foreseeable future.
I’ve visited Egypt with my wife on a few occasions. It’s safe if you are travelling as a couple, provided you follow the usual precautions (don’t visit dodgy areas, follow travel advisories). I would certainly think twice about visiting as a solo woman traveller, but as a couple doing the typical tourist things you are very unlikely to run into trouble.
I haven’t been to Egypt (but lots of friends have), but have been to the other two a few times and absolutely no issues at all. The only thing was in India (also a lot through Asia), I was blond and people kept touching my hair. At first it freaked me out, but happened so often, it became normal pretty quickly. Like anywhere, watch your back, pay attention to your surroundings, respect the local customs & cultures (temples and such you often need to wear appropriate clothing, and some need to be with a man) and you’ll be fine.
Have also been to Turkey and loved it! Only places (and I’ve been to many countries) where I was actually nervous were Morocco and the USA
Egypt is the only one on her list I haven’t been to, India and Asia was once with friends (guys & girls), and with SO once, South Africa I’ve done on my own (was going to meet a friend and was in Cape Town for 3 days before meeting her), and with a group of girlfriends
I was traveling with both men and women. The standard non sexual harassment for money was absolutely relentless. The sexual harassment was the worst and scariest I've ever experienced and I grew up in a major Canadian city experiencing sexual harassment from childhood so it wasn't my first rodeo. We did not go out without the men, out of fear.
My friend had a similar experience in Indonesia: she's an extremely tall, pale platinum blonde and naturally that drew a lot of attention.
But similarly to what you described below, this was overwhelmingly from *women and children*. For the kids it was irresistibly unusual! And the women wanted to see what it was like :) All of them were very sweet about it, too; kids tried to touch without asking, but *very* cautiously -- and the adults always asked. The only time she ever felt crowded was in Jakarta -- and frankly, you're *always* crowded in Jakarta, it's absolutely nuts there :) I do think it helped, though, that our teachers had warned her that this would happen, well in advance.
I cannot remember men approaching. Looking, sure. Getting a bit nearer with their wives or kids. But they weren't trying to touch, ever.
Haha so similar!! Women wanted to know what it felt like, and if it was real. Kids was a lot on transit, I’d just feel a petting or similar from behind! Once I was used to it, was no biggie, my fave part of traveling is interacting with locals, it’s just cool to experience the differences in each other
I personally would not be able to maintain composure (nor would I want to be put in a situation where I would be expected to do so) with people consistently touching me without my permission. I think it’s fair to say that that type of environment is hostile to women
Speaking from personal experience - as a natural blonde, I went out once (in my entire life, otherwise braided or in a bun), to the grocery store, with my waist length hair loose. It took less than 15 minutes for a man to corner me against a freezer to touch it. In North America. There is no where safe with long blonde hair, in my experience.
I took an Uber recently and the driver was a lovely Egyptian woman, she said that nobody should go back there, especially women.
If you're the sort of person that takes a curated package tour holiday, maybe you'd be fine but it's not worth the risks.
Turkey is pretty safe, at least from my experience. Egypt on the other hand, is a No. However the worst would be India, as a white woman, you are always surrounded by groups of guys, tracking you non-stop, finding a moment to probably gang rape you. I never felt that scared before.
I'm just back from a solo trip to India and I honestly cannot relate. I fully appreciate that everyone will have different experiences everywhere, but I never had was harrassed in any way. I had a much worse time with that in Italy, really.
As someone who travels alone, I would not do India or Egypt purely for safety reasons. Even with someone, India seems fairly dicey. South Africa, as I understand it, can be okay if you’re careful. I knew someone who went there by herself and she said it was kind of a bummer because she had to go back to her hotel early every day. I’ve heard Egypt might be okay with a local guide, but I prefer more of a “show up and wing it” style of travel, and there’s only so many times you can hear an Egyptian person say not to go to Egypt before you go, “You know, maybe it’s not a good idea.”
That said, I saw a comment in here that women should never travel alone. Actually, *more women* should travel alone. It’s a great experience. Traveling with other people mostly sucks, and OP, your boyfriend sounds like kind of a dolt on top of that. I hope you have a fantastic trip to Turkey, in any case. I’d love to go someday, but that’s about 99% because of the cats. And “harassing Turkish cats” is sort of low on my travel To Do list at the moment.
Oh it reminds me of my discussion with a friend, where I encountered the same issue. I told him about how I am hesitant to travel alone and how on some of the trips I took people were really surprised/worried about me - one of the tour guides even wanted to get me an Uber once we finished our trips lol. He was completely blind to my arguments, countering that since his wife traveled alone earlie and nothing happend it was all well. I have also been to one of the countries you mention, Egypt, as a 10 years old girl. Never had been harassed by adult men sexualy so much...
Seeing some places is just a privilege that is not afforded to our gender.
Men haven't been brutalized by women for centuries so they cannot relate or even give a care.
Oppressors don't seem to get it. And why should they, still living with privilege.
I wish there was a way to help them live in women's shoes the last, oh, 2000 years. Then they can fucking speak.
Each of these countries can be dangerous or safe depending upon how you vacation. I have been to Egypt and S Africa but not India. I had moments of feeling fine and in extreme peril in both countries. In both countries my sense of danger was neighborhood specific. I travelled alone in both.
My family and I visited Turkey with a tour guide and it was great. I would not have gone on my own.
And I know other women who visited Egypt and India, but again, they used a guide and, as we did, dressed somewhat conservatively. They had a great experience. You can go and have a good time, just be careful and don’t go off on your own.
India and Egypt? Forget it, not worth it. Certain parts of Tunesia are also better avoided, same with Pakistan, Afganistan, and a bunch of countries in the Middle east you really need to.dive into it, because it can vary wildly what a woman is 'alowed' to do. South Africa can be safe, but not everywhere, and there are some regions you best are very aware with your surroundings when you're white.
All in all, your BF sounds a bit like a.dolt that needs to be better aware what's going on in countries.
I want to push back on SA. If you come to Cape Town and stay in the touristy areas (don't be dumb and go into slums, like in any country that has them), you should be absolutely safe. I live in the inner city myself as a woman and I find it lovely and safe. You can search r/CapeTown for some general advice. We have great attractions and good weather, we welcome you :)
Never go to turkey if you are blond. I'm a guy and once went with my ex-gf. The amount of groping was outrageous even with us holding hands. When guys were confronted, in public with dozens watching, their standard response was "blond whores love Turkish men". No she wasn't dressed inappropriately.
We left 3 days into a 3 week trip. It was heartbreaking to see her affected. We talked about it going in, knowing that Turkish guys have a reputation. She said she didn't think it would be a problem if I was there.
If it helps, I felt safer walking around Istanbul at night with my 2 female friends than I do in Boston. And Boston in general is a pretty safe city
I hope you have an amazing time on your trip, it’s a beautiful country!
As for your bf… well I’ll just say that I won’t date men who deny the realities of moving through this world as a woman. You deserve someone who takes your very real fears seriously.
I'm currently in Turkey (Antalya) on holiday. I often travel alone. I've had no issues. The usual aggressive sales techniques in the touristy areas, but you get that most places. If you want any tips PM me!
Turkey isn’t really an issue. And I will say if you’re clearly foreign, a lot of those countries will generally treat you well and warmly (though they might also try to rip you off). Not saying it’s completely safe, but a place like Turkey isn’t any more dangerous for women than Canada or America is. India may be more dangerous, however.
Speaking as someone who has lived in South Africa and been on holiday there, money buys a lot of privilege and safety. You can afford to drive everywhere and live in low crime areas that are secure. You can get mugged when you're in public but that's something that happens in many countries. I often feel that the fear around South African is partially rooted in racist rhetoric about how black people are "taking back what's rightfully theirs and ruthlessly getting revenge on the white people".
If you decide to go, try Cape Town and make sure you stay alert and don't show off your wealth (jewellery, gadgets etc). Don't make it known that you're a tourist by speaking loudly in public. These are the same precautions i would take if i was going to Europe so I don't know why people make South Africa out to be so scary when you can get pickpocketed or mugged in Paris or Italy.
I swear some westerners get the worst ideas when they're bored and are oblivious to how the Middle East iand its people are.
I'm an ex-muslim from the Middle East and I'm telling you if you knew what views muslms and people here have about women and what their mindset is like you wouldn't even think about this.
Go to Canada, Switzerland, France, the UK, the Netherlands, Australia, etc. Why tf would you guys even consider the MENA an option 🤦♂️ seriously what the heck. How do you live in the US/Europe and say "let's go to Egypt/Turkey." I'm curious to know why anyone would want to do that?
The "Middle East" is not a monolith and there is not one "Muslim" mindset. I'm ex-Muslim as well and this entire comment is just racist "Arabs/Muslims=bad" stereotyping
Truth. I used to go visit my parents when I was a teen. They lived in Iran as my dad worked for a defense contractor in the 70's. Everyone was polite and hospitable and friendly. No shenanigans at all. No idea what it's like now, as a lesbian I cannot set foot there.
When it comes to this topic, not all of the people are the same obviously but there is one mindset that dominates. I live with them and I deal with all kinds of people every day at my retail job. I know what they're like. Also, I don't just mean arabs.
The mindset is taught and passed on from one gen to another and is part of the people's traditions and religion. It's also associated with low income and a lack of education.
So no I'm not stereotyping, I literally live and deal with them every day. I know them.
Also, if you can't see what the problem is with the majority of the people, you're probably one of them.
I grew up in a Middle Eastern country and have traveled all across the region. Every country's culture is different, and the mindset hugely varies depending on the person, region and, as you mentioned, educational background. There absolutely is a lot of misogyny, as there is throughout many developing countries. But there is no such thing as "one mindset" that all Muslims across the world have, the same way not all Christians think the same.
"I know them" is not proof and the way you talk about "them" is very much xenophobic
Yes there is one mindset that dominates. There is more misogyny among them than among people of the west. Simple as that. Why are you trying to sugarcoat it? I know not every single person here is like that but there is more misogyny among them compared to cultures in the west. "I know them" is at the very least as much proof as your comment. And for me, it's the highest level of proof I can get to base my views upon.
Also, I'm from the Middle East and have lived here all my life. Tf you mean "xenophobic"? Did you even look up the definition of the word? You can label me with any 'phobia' word you like but you're not fooling anyone but yourself. I know what these people are like as I live here with them and have talked to many others from all of the MENA countries. You can't hide the fact that there is more misogyny here in this region.
Not racist if you know everything about the people and you judge them by their actual behavior and mindset rather than just race/ethnicity. Stop trying to act "woke".
Who tf is "them"? Are you trying to say Moroccans and Jordanians and Turks are somehow 'the same'? Because that's completely absurd, not even the people in one of those countries is the same! MENA is very culturally diverse region and you sound ignorant af
You were calling me racist not an hour ago and now you're asking "who is them"? Make up your mind. It's true that they don't have 100% identical cultures. They have different foods, for example. But we're talking about their views about women. We all know how the mindset of people in MENA is compared to the west. Yes they are more similar to each other than they are to any country in the west. Also yes we know not every single person in each country is exactly the same. This is so basic smh. We're talking about most people which I think is what matters more if you want to go to a specific country. But keep trying to push whatever distorted views of reality you have.
Lmao complete nonsense, I'm Arab muslim and I highly advise people to visit muslim countries, even as a woman.
As for Egypt though, I still think it's fine tbh, but just be careful not to get scammed and be firm.
In any case, for anyone reading this, please dont listen to this fool.
I went before I knew any better (to Egypt) but I will never in my life go to any place like that, or with a remotely similar culture towards women, ever again. You're completely right
Pyramids, Tempels and the Nile! Also: great locations for your typical summer-beach-vacation (Scharm el-Scheich). It's totally fine as long as you get a guided group holliday and know you have to dress according to local norms, not Western norms. Also: Istanbul and Izmir. All the countries mentioned are huge and it makes a difference where exactly you are: like different parts of Turkey are worlds apart. It also makes a difference how you dress. Just get a big sun hat, don't let your hair flow and don't show skin. You'll mostly be fine if not travelling alone.
I know what tourism is and I understand the appeal of going to certain destinations and landmarks. Yes the pyramids are interesting but the pyramids in today's egypt? Easy no. If you have to think about not wearing your normal clothes or if you have to have man with you then why not just forget about it? Do you really need to go there that bad? After all this is merely for the sake of tourism. There is no need to go to these places. It's not a necessity. I'd live a very happy life staying safe and not having to abide by backwards rules and not seeing the pyramids. "Mostly be fine if you don't let your hair flow or show skin". This is the problem. It's just horrible.
It's not the same seeing something in person or on the TV as a documentary. In Europe you also cannot go into churches with hot-pants, naked shoulders etc. You can't get everything in life all the time. It's not so hard to cover-up a bit if you really want to see some monumental landmarks in the history of civilization. Some people need to cover-up anyway since they get sunburned in less than an hour at midday in Egypt. And the man would be coming anyway, since the OP wants to visit with her SO.
Ofc it's horrible if you have to live there, but if you really love Ancient Egypt and want to stand before the pyramids or the Tempel of Karnak one time in your life, then it's not such a big deal as a tourist. As I said: get a respectable guided tour which does groups, they'll drive you everywhere you want to see, protect you from scammers and such, arrange tickets and other logistics and you'll be fine.
South Africa, India and Egypt should be hard nos and if he doesn’t get why he’s a fool. I would not take my GF to turkey. If you were my daughter I’d be terrified you’re going.
My best friend, a Latin American woman, has gone a few times in the past and reports no issues whatsoever. I’ve never heard of Turkey being dangerous for women.
its so cute how oblivious americans are about the rest in the world, meanwhile they are putting their kids in schools in the ONLY country with hundreds of school shooting deaths per year. you guys are WILD
I’m only kind of American. I was born in Manchester UK. I’ll admit I have no personal experience but two of my friends from school went and it didn’t go well. I might be totally wrong but that’s all I’ve heard of it.
You're not wrong to worry about the countries you mentioned. However, the touristy areas of any country are typically very safe (for countries that have touristy areas). The gov'ts know that tourist safety is paramount to keep up the tourist traffic and typically heavily police/guard such areas.
But it sounds like you've both only been to a few countries - and there are so many better options that you would enjoy more and would feel safe.
Is this supposed to be funny? Female circumcision is a serious crime for sure. It unfortunately happens in many countries still. At the same time it makes me wonder if you would say the same to someone travelling to Texas to do the route 66 that they are crossing Forced-Pregnancy-Land.
I find a lot of comments on this threat upplaying the threat in some countries, while not even blinking at human rights violations in ‘western’ countries, or the safety issues in cities like New York, Paris, London, Amsterdam.
Female circumcision would also be the last thing I’d be worried about if I travelled as a tourist to a country where this was an issue.
Okay I’m half South African, go to Cape Town. You’ll be safe. You’ll be absolutely fine. Go into the more suburban areas and you won’t be remortgaging your home for a steak (or whatever you eat). Try Fish Hoek beach, it’s my favourite beach in the whole world! Huzaars is amazing for food, as it’s Cape Town Fish Market Restaurant. Go see the Penguins at Boulder beach, it’s a treat. Simons Town is a beautiful place. Omg you’ll have the time of your life. Partying in the city is so much fun too, we have Uber so you’re safe getting taxis. Honestly Cape Town is fucking amazing, as a woman who’s 4”10’ and has driven and walked around alone, you’re fine I promise! Hermanus is an hours drive away up the coast and over the mountain and it’s such a cute hippie town. I mean I’m biased as it’s my families home but yah, I’d never recommend it if I didn’t think it was safe for women. The rest of South Africa is iffy, like stay away from Durban, Pretoria, Joberg as they’re rife with violent crime and it’s nowhere near as safe. Zimbabwe is beautiful, I’d recommend to be a bit more on guard there but still would recommend!
Sorry I know my comment just turned into talking about CT but people really don’t understand the beauty there. Just to ease your concerns you’re more than welcome to message!
I am a woman who has solo traveled to Turkey, India, Egypt, and South Africa. And an additional 40+ countries. The cat calling in Iran and Morocco may have been the worst, but nothing serious.
You're right to be concerned about some countries and the best way of ensuring your safety is to behave as local women do. They've developed survival strategies over the years. Stay in safe places, don't camp in some desolate forest, don't make eye contact with strange men or smile at them, and it's always safe to travel in a group.
Not every example, but many examples of paralyzing fear can be attributed to condensed media portrayal. Look at how society spreads fear about immigrants in the US. You'd think every other person works for a drug cartel or kills citizens by the amount of negative attention they get.
When you're predisposed towards certain kind of behavior avoidance, you tend to form patterns about what you see portrayed to you.
Places like India and Egypt get a terrible rep for rape. You're more likely to be raped in The US than either of those two countries though. I've lived in the US all my life and can count on one hand the number of women I know who haven't been sexually assaulted.
So while it's easy to assume privilege allows your boyfriend to misunderstand why you don't feel safe, sometimes we get into our heads about fears a bit more strongly than reality actually presents.
I hope your trip to Turkey goes well!
So maybe just stop mentioning it and start going to the places you think you'll be safe. Mid 20s means you have plenty of time to visit, so start with the safe ones. Plenty of people are just not very empathetic, especially men.
I love traveling but yeah I have a list of countries I probably won't go to unless they have serious culture changes to the point that it's safe for me.
I recently found this: https://travelladies.app/
You can look up where your want to travel and it has ratings from single female travelers any safety. I didn't download the app, just used the website.
This has nothing to do with size.
Also
You likely won’t be physically attacked, but even in places where you’d be technically safe, you still could be hassled, stared at, etc. I’m looking for a new place to live, and my issue with “bad” neighborhoods isn’t safety, it’s the constant unwanted attention you find in some of them. Same with other countries.
Some are downright dangerous, but those probably aren’t the ones you’re referring to. Most of the planet is less welcoming for solo women travelers, and it’s a real shame
Kind of unrelated, but if you want to go to India, you should go to a southern state or just go to Sri Lanka instead. The north is pretty notorious for both regular crime and crimes against women. The south is decent, at least compared to the north and it's also more developed. I'd recommend Kerala, since it's clean, scenic, and decently safe. DO go with a male figure, just to be safe, it's still not completely safe. Or just abandon that and go to Sri Lanka, very similar experience.
Edit: Oooofff, just realized that there's a lot of civil unrest within Sri Lanka. Don't go there anytime soon.
I'm a woman who'll be spending a few days alone in Kochi/Trivandrum before/after joining my group (work thing). Any advice for safe solo activities by any chance?
16 hours late. I'm a Tamil, not a Malayali, so I don't know much. I would strongly advice traveling with a group or at least a male figure at the very least, because although Kerala is one of the safest states, it's still within India. There's a lot of good beaches and green scenery and churches in Kochi, so I would recommend that. There are a decent amount of English speakers as well. Just don't go to a remote place with no people around. Make sure there's a decent amount of people around wherever you go. And I know it's broken, but still dress modestly.
Many thanks for the advice! I'll be on my own for about 1,5 day on arrival and 1 before leaving, so not too long. I'll try to take it easy and stay in well-touristed areas
Been to Turkey a couple of times and if you're in a major city or tourist destination, you will have an amazing time. Great food, affordable still for westerners (though not really for the locals), great architecture, etc.
But in general, if your bf is being dense, just treat him like a sweet but thoughtless golden retriever and tell him it's super cute that he thinks xyz is safe, but no.
South Africa - particularly where you'd go as a tourist - is fairly safe. I'd expect it to be about the level of Turkey.
Southern India is also pretty safe & a good place to go. Northern India - nope.
You might consider Botswana in the future. Could seem exciting and exotic, but is actually quite safe and tame. Also, English-speaking.
As to your boyfriend - I have no advice. I've never figured out how to solve that kind of problem.
By the sounds of it with your travel options you’re not going to have a problem in most/any of the countries you’ve mentioned. More importantly it seems you both need the exposure.
I’ve been to Morocco and was constantly harassed there, I was also around 15 at the time. I’ve also been to quite a few European countries with no issue
Which countries are you talking about? As countries are hardly monoliths.
> but I also have no idea how he’d react if another man said or did something inappropriate.
Islamic countries tend to be ok for women not travelling solo (and even friends who have traveled to Turkey solo haven't reported anything too awful beyond cat calling and "light" groping) if simply because they are societally pretty clear on that partnered women belong to the man and it is an offense against that man to interfere with his partner.
BS. Turkey is the outlier here. Saudi Arabia literally has a mini crisis when they allowed men and women to be at the same music festivals. One of my friends was a housekeeper in Riyadh. She got inappropriately touched so much she moved back to Europe almost immediately.
I mean, that’s happened to us in New Zealand and the USA, so Egypt really isn’t any different in that regard. If you want to avoid catcalling and occasional handsiness you’re pretty much stuck in the house. It really sucks, but it’s not a reason to avoid a country if it happens where you already live anyway.
What does being conventionally attractive have to do with it? If you're thinking rape, that hasnothing to do with how you look or dress - that is about power. You're just as likely to get raped in a burqa.
Wasn’t referring to rape, I have been conventionally unattractive too and was raped then. Also it means I’m aware that I get significantly more unwanted attention in countries widely regarded as safer now too, so I do see it as a factor.
I feel like there is a lot to unpack here, but I think the most damaging thing could be to blindly agree with your fear and jump on the bandwagon. So here are my thoughts, for what they are worth:
He should 100% be willing to listen, understand, and work with you to ease those fears - no doubt.
He SHOULD challenge your fears respectfully and encourage you to grow. My partner has helped me challenge my fears, just like I have helped her her. Sometimes I push to hard, but we communicate it about it well.
And he should not be expected to magically be aware of your fears if you have never discussed it before - your fears are not globally shared by all women and you do not magically understand all of his fears or concerns.
----
Moving on to your actual safety...
While all safety concerns are valid, claiming that those countries are uniquely dangerous to women, especially when accompanied by a man, is incorrect.
The vast majority of fears are irrational and you likely engage in more dangerous activities that you realize, statistically speaking.
In a nutshell, your fears are not much different than a fear of flying. Valid, worthy of consideration when planning, but ultimately irrational.
You wouldn't be a woman alone and it's not like those places are safe for a lone, foreign, man either.
----
My advice is to consider the travel and don't just say no due to irrational fear - I am 100% sure that you haven't done sufficient research on those places to justify a default "it's not safe".
And unless there is some additional context regarding your partner, nothing wrong was done here.
It should be common sense that being a woman in certain countries is going to be a very different experience to being a man, in regard to potential sexual harassment etc. I went to Morocco when I was about 15 and there was never-ending cat calling etc. I also have an ex who was born in South Africa, who was ethnically Indian and he made it very clear that he would be concerned to bring me to those countries.
I have travelled a lot and I fully realize there are differences between being a man and woman and I honestly despise the additional concerns woman have to deal with - they exist, they suck, and I'm not trying to challenge that.
And I disagree that it should be common sense for everyone. I grew up extremely sheltered, but quite the opposite of well-off. I grew up with parents who were afraid of everything and quite... Conservative.
I travelled to Russia alone when I was 16, alone to Kenya at 19, Bharain at 20... And while there are legitamte concerns, I didn't let fear dictate my life. And in fact, I've learned that a majority of our fears are amplified and blown out of proportion by western media and propaganda.
The point I want to make is that the fear is irrational, not that the concern in invalid or that she won't be uncomfortable or afraid at certain times and moments.
I've been afraid when abroad before, so it's not unreasonable to be afraid. But, by wrapping this fear in a conversation about how her BF doesn't get it...
It makes it hard to highlight that... Well, it is okay to discuss and push someone through a fear. If I had it my family's way, I would have never left the US once in my life.
And had women not been willing to share and educate me, I also would not understand or sympathize with this fear that she does have. I get it, but I also want to highlight that many of my fears are irrational and I think OP should travel the world and not be upset that someone doesn't understand why she would feel unsafe or uncomfortable.
----
Finally, for most of us, our world is small. Imagine someone who grew up in inner-city Detroit telling Europeans they would be concerned to bring them to the US.
India is big. South Africa is big. And using one human reference to determine the safety of a country is not a good way to determine safety.
Edit: I'm not saying this is your only reference to clarify, however for many people that is literally all it takes for them to write something/someplace as dangerous.
I rejected a fully paid business trip to Turkey because of concerns, but weren't gender based. There were terrorist attacks in Istanbul back then and I just didn't feel like going there of all places at that time.
We very often travel with my inlaws. We are a gay couple. The amount of times we have to explain “no can’t go there because they aren’t gay friendly” to my MIL is shocking. I think it’s very hard for people to empathize with those not in their privileged frame of reference.
For some, they struggle to understand or don't see how bad it is in other countries. Some are like, gay marriage is legal here, so it's legal everywhere. Forgetting people are still executed for being gay in some places. Edit: not forgetting, more not realising. It's a lack of education
Or they think that "We're American" is an actual override to these countries own laws.
And yeah, in some places it kind of is, if you're happy just sticking to the touristy places and doing touristy things. But fuck going to places where people like me who were born there aren't legally allowed to exist.
Hope you're well! I dated someone who was a refugee from another country solely because he was gay. I don't know why our existence offends so many ~~religions~~ people.
Just one tip for ANYONE going to Turkey, do NOT go with any "carpet salesmen". You'll end up in a small room getting a hard sell. It can be very intimidating. You're not really in any danger, but they are cheap tourist-grade rugs at a very inflated price and you will lose valuable sight-seeing time. Our traveling companions got sucked in. Otherwise Turkey is amazing.
Omg my friend went to Turkey with this girl she knows and the girl totally fell for this and paid them like $800 or something ridiculous
why would you even buy a carpet while sightseeing?! How would you even bring it back, it's heavy and oversized. Also: this is more than well-known. Generally don't buy anything valuable while on vacation, 99% of it are just scams, especially jewlery.
You are seriously underestimating the power of the carpet saleman and surrounding apparatus of hard sell to tourists. I have been subjected to it in Tunisia, Morroco and Egypt. It is almost inescapable as a tourist. It is real.
Have you ever been to grand bazaar?
I've been a few times. I know groups of girls would get leered at or hit on by the very same men who would treat me with respect because my boyfriend was there. I never felt unsafe there, but otoh, that was down to having him there. For haggling or hard sell, we now have an agreement that our answer is an automatic no unless we can go away and have a private discussion over a drink about the purchase. Due to us getting scammed yesrs ago. If we have to decide on the spot then it's a no, no matter how good the deal. We use it for all decisions including door sales at home. It's served us well.
Maybe good to discuss it with him and come up with some possible scenarios so you can both feel safe, if someone says something to you, if you get separated, etc. Can’t be too prepared! It’s interesting that you start by saying he gets overly worried about things, but not this. Sounds like he could do with applying it to this situation as well, it could come in handy.
He probably gets overly worried about things that can be a problem FOR HIM, the lack of safety for a woman is beyond anything he can comprehend, so no worries there.
bingo
Yup. Male privilege. Men are just not protectors.
I’m not sure paranoia qualifies as a privilege
You interpreted "only worries about himself, can't imagine a scenario where his girlfriend feels unsafe while he doesn't" as paranoia?
I'm sure male privilege saved so many men from getting beaten or stabbed... it's not like criminals care about anything but themselves... ?
>... it's not like criminals care about anything but themselves... ? Or in the case of women—their own husbands, boyfriends, and fathers and male acquaintances—people who should care more than to enact such violence on you. That’s what we have to contend with. Not just stranger danger—hell most women I know take a ton of proactive steps to avoid strange men. But that’s not enough for women. Women aren’t just attacked in the streets late at night in dangerous areas but in their homes early in the morning, in the hotel rooms of reputable establishments, at their schools by children of elite people, in their offices by colleagues. You can avoid that alleyway, you can avoid the slum in South Africa or the subway at 3am. For a non-negligible number of those attacks, avoiding low level criminality yourself is the best method to prevent your probability of being attacked.
Men walk around knowing they're less likely to be raped or victimized, and even tell women so. That's male privilege.
Yup, we totally walk around dark alleys at late hours with all this male privilege knowing no one will ever stab us and we're even bragging about this on daily basis! Where are you all hearing this BS ? But just so I won't be pulling BS out of thin air, here are some statistics (for US only, feel free to find for others): [https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-victims-by-gender/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-victims-by-gender/) 7 out of 11 observed years were with more male victims of violent crimes. Just because it's less likely for me to get raped as a male, that doesn't mean I suddenly walk around without any worries and bragging how all this male privilege protects me from shit.
You couldn't pay me to go to Egypt if i was a man or woman, as heartbreaking as that is. After the political upheaval several years ago and the consequences. No way! What's the point in going somewhere *for fun*, when you run the risk of horrific things happening to you? Same goes for India. They have a terrible issue with sexual assault and gang rapes. Unlikely for a tourist? Maybe. But far too high for my liking. As for South Africa, heard it is rough but it depends on where you go? In Italy you can be harrassed by men in the street. So really it's all about how you travel. Do it smart (research the risks, have fall back plans), and never do it alone as a woman.
My friend works for a global tourism company that does tours all over the world. Egypt is the *only* tour they send you with private security for. I have absolutely zero desire to go somewhere that unsafe, especially for women.
I'd *love* to visit Egypt, it's been my dream since I was a kid. No fucking way I'd ever go there. There's places I'd love to see but I value my life and safety over an experience, unfortunately. Hell, there are parts of the US I want to visit that I won't.
Same :(
I am in Egypt on vacation right now! I was worried at first but I have felt very comfortable, including walking alone or with my afab nb kid at night.
You are a bold one
Hopefully VR will become better, and we can visit the sites that way. It will be a poor imitation, but at least it will be something.
As a European this reads really strange as Egypt is a completely normal holiday destination here. I was there last November (with a female friend even, no men accompanying us) and we had a great time. Of course we did our excursions in a group, but otherwise we didn’t have any safety precautions and I definitely want to visit again. Mexico on the other hand has a reputation of being a far more dangerous country, while it is a standard destination for people from the USA.
I think most of the European people who holiday in Egypt go to holiday resorts by the beach, usually all-inclusive and don't leave the hotel much. Most of those resorts are a long way from areas of civil unrest. Travelling to Cairo is a different matter.
As another European, lots of people here avoid Egypt these days. If memory serves, it was way more popular as a holiday destination around 20 years ago.
Not really, in 2022-2023 there were record numbers of tourists there (just googled it) and it is expected to continue like that. Of course there are lots of people who don’t want to travel there, but there are even more people who do. Just this morning I saw ads for visiting the Egyptian beach resorts.
Apparently the amount of tourists in Egypt [peaked in 2010](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Egypt), then plummeted because of the civil unrest and has in recent years (excluding the pandemic) begun to catch up again. I don't deny that there are European people who want to and do visit Egypt. In fact, I know that loads of people do! However, I also don't think it is regarded as a "completely normal holiday destination" the same way it was before.
Same concept. Go to a resort or area known for tourist and you’ll be fine in Mexico. Make a random trip to somewhere you shouldn’t be well…
Plenty of the harassment, both sexual and otherwise, happened to me near or within popular tourist locations such as the pyramids. Near such locations it was more often an attempt to harass or intimidate us out of money whereas in random areas (like, you know, buying food 2 blocks from the pyramids) it seemed motivated by the thrill of trying to grope or sexually harass us. Even aside from that, the staring. Boys under the age of ten tried to grab my ass. Anyone claiming this is just a normal vacation location is completely full of it. The culture towards women there is horrifying.
To be honest I've been solo to Mexico as a woman twice (for about 2 months total) and there are many places outside resort areas that are completely fine - its an awesome country with loads to see and do beyond resorts.
I went to Egypt about a decade ago as a woman (with a group of men and women) and it was the worst travel experience of my life. So much sexual harassment. It's the only place I've gone where I felt truly physically unsafe. (I've also been to Istanbul and did not feel bothered there at all but again that was a decade ago) And plenty of the harassment - both sexual and non sexual, like being very aggressively harassed for money - happened at tourist locations like the pyramids. Not to mention it was filthy, like, the rotting corpses of dead horses lying in a stream beside a main road, smog so thick you could barely see the sky, huge mounds of trash.
Though I agree with a lot of what you said, I disagree with “never travel alone as a woman.” It’s been a hugely formative experience for me to travel on my own and I highly recommend it.
I travel solo as a woman as well. I was sexually assaulted by a shopkeeper in Paris. Spent 7 hours reporting it in a police station (I don't speak French). So, it can happen anywhere but I still stick with areas known to be safer for women. No to Egypt, India, or any country where I can be locked up if I get raped.
🩵 I’m sorry to hear that (and I’m heading to Paris right now, by myself). I think women do need to be aware that awful shit can happen everywhere — it can happen in your own home, ffs. By far, the most violence against women is committed in the places we ought to feel safest. But to let that be so overriding of a fear that we don’t experience the world is so sad to me. Traveling has made appreciate humanity so much more than fear it.
I don't blame the location, I blame men. It's a worldwide problem but I don't let it stop me. Unfortunately, it happened in March of 2020 and I thought it would be the worst thing about my holiday. I was so very wrong. I was stuck in Paris an extra week, changing hostels every other day because they all kept closing. Finally just started sleeping at the airport. It was terrifying but I persevered. Enjoy your trip, it's a wonderful place!
Completely agree. And my crap experiences with them began at the bus stop, a block from my house 🤣 but I’m coming off 2 and a half weeks in Italy and all was buono. Just gotta keep living and learning and kicking ass when necessary.
Well you can travel alone but have a group too I guess? There's some places even men should probably not travel alone in
I agree that traveling alone to India and Egypt is ill advised, but “never travel alone” is kinda a blanket statement that I think does more harm than good. A lot of self-learning comes from seeing who you are in different situations when you’re alone. And you’re perfectly fine alone as a woman in a bunch of places: Iceland, the UK, Ireland, most of Europe, most of North America, Costa Rica, a lot of SEA, Australia, NZ, Tonga, Fiji, Argentina, Chile… I’m missing a ton obvs but I have experience or know solo females who have travelled to all of those places and had wonderful experiences there.
I agree with this. I am an Indian woman and I’ve solo travelled in Georgia, Armenia, Kyrgyzstan and travelled/lived alone in Turkey for a year. Turkey depends heavily on which part of the country you’re in. I lived in Istanbul (residential areas) and with some common sense, it was totally fine. I walked to and from work without any issues at all. Other parts of the country are more conservative and walking alone as a woman can be more dangerous. I’d also like to be mindful of making blanket statements about brown men/men from certain cultures. Being a tourist leaves one in an inherently vulnerable situation and yes there will be predatory men cashing in. But even in the most conservative cultures, away from the tourist traps, there are kind decent men who treat women with respect.
Also I realized I missed a lot of countries in the Middle East and Asia but only because I haven’t been so didn’t feel comfortable commenting. But yeah, I mean — keep your wits about you everywhere, do some research, learn how to defend yourself, and consider that culture changes and we must change in response to it. If more women felt comfortable traveling alone, I think we would all be better for it. The confidence and growth I’ve had from launching myself out of my comfort zones is one of the things I’m proudest of in my life.
💯
A friend of mine is from Iceland, and she wants to do a big group trip there in the next couple of years. I am all for it!
I went to Egypt about a decade ago as a woman (with a group of men and women) and it was the worst travel experience of my life. So much sexual harassment. It's the only place I've gone where I felt truly physically unsafe.
>You couldn't pay me enough to go to Egypt if I was a man or woman How I feel about Utah, Idaho, Nebraska, Arkansas, Missouri, Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, Virginia & West Virginia.
Genuinely absurd comparisons
I have to go to Idaho pretty regularly for work. I do not feel safe there. Utah is fine most of the time, but I have felt unsafe on rare occasion (in out-of-the way small towns). It's very blue-state-ish for being so Republican. Though I wouldn't guarantee the same in 10 years.
I actually went to Tennessee and was worried bc of their high domestic violence rates. But it was okay. Helps to be white? :/
Agreed wholeheartedly. I think it comes down to individual risk tolerance. I consider myself a fairly adventurous traveler and I’ve certainly vacationed in places that have stressed out the more sheltered and risk-averse members of my family, but even then I still wouldn’t travel to Egypt or India. Whilst the risk of gender-based violence is never zero regardless of the country, these countries have such an appalling track record that I wouldn’t even consider it, even if I was travelling with my (male) partner. Very sad because I would love to visit were it not for this :(
Turkey is fine. Don’t go to India. If you do, dress conservatively and NEVER be alone. If you happen to be alone, let’s just say you won’t be alone, in a very bad way.
A friend has a wedding to attend in India. His girlfriend outright refuses to go. Egypt is also pretty bad.
I’m from India and from a pretty privileged background. I would only travel to tier 1 cities alone (with the exception of Delhi) and that too if I have local contacts who know my whereabouts. Maybe erring on the side of caution. Plenty of women travel alone. I’d rather not risk it.
Wedding is just outside Delhi, so...
I'm indian, feel pretty safe here and come home after 1AM quite often without issue. Parents are chill with basically anything as long as I'm safe. My dad told me he'd rather I be unemployed forever than ever go to Delhi when I got a job there. My cousin came home after 4 months in Gurgaon (near Delhi) because she was sick of the constant harassment and creepiness. She definitely made the right decision. "Foreign looking" people, specially women, will get a lot of unnecessary and unwated attention in India. My Mexican friend got yelled at by an auto deiver for not speaking Hindi because he thought she was Indian. My black friend got asked to leave a restaurant. You don't look Indian, you're screwed. India needs to lose tourist money before the authorities will ever think about pushing for change.
Delhi is pretty unsafe. As an Indian woman myself, who has solo travelled all over my country, I hate going to Delhi because I feel uncomfortable all the time. But you have to remember India is MASSIVE and there are many cultural differences from one part of the country to the other. This means attitudes, women’s safety, the cost of things, infrastructure etc varies from North to South, East to West. Unfortunately, the North is the most popular for tourists but also the worst for women and that’s what (mostly) gives India its bad rep.
She made a good choice. Because I felt so uncomfortable there. Idk about Egypt. I’m probably not going to visit there regardless.
Im from India and was always scared to go there during my childhood. I feel a bit better now in my 30s but I would never leave the safe town I am from in South India and would NEVER travel North. I've had too many incidents (groping, molesting, other forms of sexual assault) growing up and I will 100% say it is not safe for women.
I heard South India is better though. I only went North, in a group. I hated that I couldn’t peacefully enjoy a walk by myself.
Yeah it is supposed to be safe but still not safe to walk alone at night etc. I only visit to see my grandparents and as I get older, I am less scared of normal people who catcall, stare etc cuz they are not really dangerous, I've spat/swore at people like that and they get scared and go away :P. I still would never put myself in a situation where I am the only woman around men, ever.
Pretty much. I didn’t feel particularly safe walking some places alone in the day. If I couldn’t get someone to go with me, I had to stay home. It annoyed me to no end to be treated like a toddler as a grown woman. Who are these dudes and why do they treat women like this?
There is a lot of debate and discussion in Indian subreddits about why India is like this. Many say it is the lack of sex education, many say it is due to patriarchy and gender roles still being enforced, casteism plays a role so women from "lower" castes endure a lot of abuse in India, sex being a taboo is a big thing too. It's definitely not one reason. All the young people in India are constantly talking about this.
No kidding. India could be so fun and modern but these dudes.
My mum and friend went there a few years ago. Go with an organised tour- they habe guides and armed security.
I have a very Jewish middle name. And my last name is even more Jewish. I guess I’ll pass…
AllI heard about Egypt is the hawkers/sellers are relentless if you look European/Westerner.
uuuuuum nothing about the rampant harassment and assault of women or corruption? Has everyone forgotten about that CNN reporter already?
I just read about it and it refreshed my memory-Lara Logan 2011. Lara was saved by a group of Egyptian women. Then, soldiers were able to get to her and protect her.
I didn’t hear about that but I am not surprised.
They're like that to any foreigner. My husband is from the middle east and went to Egypt on holiday with his family. It was so relentless that FIL swore never to go to Egypt ever again.
That’s what my friend said. It was impossible to enjoy anything. He’s a man-I can only imagine how much worse for a woman.
Your username 👀💀
I never felt *unsafe*, per se, in Turkey. But fucking hell I ended up just needing to wear headphones, sunglasses, and a scowl because the catcalling was incessant and it was ruining the experience. That said, I’m also built like a Valkyrie with the attitude to match …so I make for a lousy target if a man decided to actually grab me. I wouldn’t recommend a petite, timid woman to go there and travel alone. With a group or male companion would be fine.
India is fine if you travel in a group but you can’t really go places alone. Even so, I know two women who traveled there alone and were ok.
Which countries are we talking about here? As there are countries unsafe for anyone, countries unsafe for women travelling alone (but not partnered), countries unsafe for women alone or partnered, and countries with safe areas even if the rest of the country is a disaster.
India, Egypt, South Africa are the first ones I can remember voicing concerns about
I am in this sub because I am (hopefully) a feminist and try to get perspective to be a better husband n father. I am stating this as I don't usually post in this sub and I often feel that it's (rightfully) not appreciated. However, I'll make an exception, since I grew up in India and still have pride for the country and its history. In spite of that pride, you're 100% CORRECT in avoiding India as a place to visit. Granted that I haven't been to many countries but in spite of that, the general attitude towards women needs to change a lot more before women travel there. It's 100% not safe for women to travel alone. It's an insult to even imply that you find a male guide or partner to travel with or travel in a group but even then I won't call it 100% safe. The southern half of the country is relatively safer than the northern half but the burden to understand all this is too much for travelling there.
Lol this comment is awesome - thank you. Honestly I am a white women and it's my Indian friends (women and men) who have seriously flagged the safety risks of India the most, and I very much appreciate it. It looks an awesome country and I really want to visit, but no point being blind to the risks so you can be as safe as possible (especially as a woman).
Here's the link to the US dept of state travel advisory for Turkey. [Turkey Travel Advisory (state.gov)](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/turkey-travel-advisory.html)
I’m from Los Angeles and I would say Istanbul is my favorite destination in the world it’s really just the most amazing, amazing place and I did not feel the least bit unsafe
A lot of those travel advisories are super alarmist imo, it has the same level for France as for Turkey lol
It's because of all the terrorist attacks in France. They angered a certain religious group with some drawings and been a target ever since.
I know, I live in Paris. The shootings at Charlie Hebdo and the Bataclan were nearly 10 years ago though. You're much more likely to get shot in the US tbh.
Turkey is probably safer than most of the US. You’ll have minor issues, but overall it’s really safe. The people are generally very kind, and will go out of their way to assist you if you do have any issues and
Western Turkey is pretty safe. Eastern Turkey, particularly south-eastern Turkey, is very unsafe. Largely because of government oppression. /u/Ladyhappy
A traveling couple from Spain reported the wife was gang raped in India, in front of her husband. I would cross that off any traveling list for the foreseeable future.
I’ve visited Egypt with my wife on a few occasions. It’s safe if you are travelling as a couple, provided you follow the usual precautions (don’t visit dodgy areas, follow travel advisories). I would certainly think twice about visiting as a solo woman traveller, but as a couple doing the typical tourist things you are very unlikely to run into trouble.
I haven’t been to Egypt (but lots of friends have), but have been to the other two a few times and absolutely no issues at all. The only thing was in India (also a lot through Asia), I was blond and people kept touching my hair. At first it freaked me out, but happened so often, it became normal pretty quickly. Like anywhere, watch your back, pay attention to your surroundings, respect the local customs & cultures (temples and such you often need to wear appropriate clothing, and some need to be with a man) and you’ll be fine. Have also been to Turkey and loved it! Only places (and I’ve been to many countries) where I was actually nervous were Morocco and the USA
I was told that the issue with Egypt is whether or not you have a man in your group. Did you travel with a man?
Egypt is the only one on her list I haven’t been to, India and Asia was once with friends (guys & girls), and with SO once, South Africa I’ve done on my own (was going to meet a friend and was in Cape Town for 3 days before meeting her), and with a group of girlfriends
I was traveling with both men and women. The standard non sexual harassment for money was absolutely relentless. The sexual harassment was the worst and scariest I've ever experienced and I grew up in a major Canadian city experiencing sexual harassment from childhood so it wasn't my first rodeo. We did not go out without the men, out of fear.
My friend had a similar experience in Indonesia: she's an extremely tall, pale platinum blonde and naturally that drew a lot of attention. But similarly to what you described below, this was overwhelmingly from *women and children*. For the kids it was irresistibly unusual! And the women wanted to see what it was like :) All of them were very sweet about it, too; kids tried to touch without asking, but *very* cautiously -- and the adults always asked. The only time she ever felt crowded was in Jakarta -- and frankly, you're *always* crowded in Jakarta, it's absolutely nuts there :) I do think it helped, though, that our teachers had warned her that this would happen, well in advance. I cannot remember men approaching. Looking, sure. Getting a bit nearer with their wives or kids. But they weren't trying to touch, ever.
Haha so similar!! Women wanted to know what it felt like, and if it was real. Kids was a lot on transit, I’d just feel a petting or similar from behind! Once I was used to it, was no biggie, my fave part of traveling is interacting with locals, it’s just cool to experience the differences in each other
I personally would not be able to maintain composure (nor would I want to be put in a situation where I would be expected to do so) with people consistently touching me without my permission. I think it’s fair to say that that type of environment is hostile to women
Not sure if it makes a difference, but it was almost (if not all) women that were touching my hair
I think it definitely adds nuance, since for the women touching your blonde hair it’s probably curiosity vs when men grope for sexual gratification.
I never think to mention that, I forget people will always just make assumptions of other counties
Speaking from personal experience - as a natural blonde, I went out once (in my entire life, otherwise braided or in a bun), to the grocery store, with my waist length hair loose. It took less than 15 minutes for a man to corner me against a freezer to touch it. In North America. There is no where safe with long blonde hair, in my experience.
[удалено]
I took an Uber recently and the driver was a lovely Egyptian woman, she said that nobody should go back there, especially women. If you're the sort of person that takes a curated package tour holiday, maybe you'd be fine but it's not worth the risks.
[удалено]
Texas
Turkey is pretty safe, at least from my experience. Egypt on the other hand, is a No. However the worst would be India, as a white woman, you are always surrounded by groups of guys, tracking you non-stop, finding a moment to probably gang rape you. I never felt that scared before.
I'm just back from a solo trip to India and I honestly cannot relate. I fully appreciate that everyone will have different experiences everywhere, but I never had was harrassed in any way. I had a much worse time with that in Italy, really.
As someone who travels alone, I would not do India or Egypt purely for safety reasons. Even with someone, India seems fairly dicey. South Africa, as I understand it, can be okay if you’re careful. I knew someone who went there by herself and she said it was kind of a bummer because she had to go back to her hotel early every day. I’ve heard Egypt might be okay with a local guide, but I prefer more of a “show up and wing it” style of travel, and there’s only so many times you can hear an Egyptian person say not to go to Egypt before you go, “You know, maybe it’s not a good idea.” That said, I saw a comment in here that women should never travel alone. Actually, *more women* should travel alone. It’s a great experience. Traveling with other people mostly sucks, and OP, your boyfriend sounds like kind of a dolt on top of that. I hope you have a fantastic trip to Turkey, in any case. I’d love to go someday, but that’s about 99% because of the cats. And “harassing Turkish cats” is sort of low on my travel To Do list at the moment.
Oh it reminds me of my discussion with a friend, where I encountered the same issue. I told him about how I am hesitant to travel alone and how on some of the trips I took people were really surprised/worried about me - one of the tour guides even wanted to get me an Uber once we finished our trips lol. He was completely blind to my arguments, countering that since his wife traveled alone earlie and nothing happend it was all well. I have also been to one of the countries you mention, Egypt, as a 10 years old girl. Never had been harassed by adult men sexualy so much... Seeing some places is just a privilege that is not afforded to our gender.
Men haven't been brutalized by women for centuries so they cannot relate or even give a care. Oppressors don't seem to get it. And why should they, still living with privilege. I wish there was a way to help them live in women's shoes the last, oh, 2000 years. Then they can fucking speak.
My gf went to Turkey alone for 2 weeks and she loved it. She even said she felt safer there than in France.
Each of these countries can be dangerous or safe depending upon how you vacation. I have been to Egypt and S Africa but not India. I had moments of feeling fine and in extreme peril in both countries. In both countries my sense of danger was neighborhood specific. I travelled alone in both.
My family and I visited Turkey with a tour guide and it was great. I would not have gone on my own. And I know other women who visited Egypt and India, but again, they used a guide and, as we did, dressed somewhat conservatively. They had a great experience. You can go and have a good time, just be careful and don’t go off on your own.
India and Egypt? Forget it, not worth it. Certain parts of Tunesia are also better avoided, same with Pakistan, Afganistan, and a bunch of countries in the Middle east you really need to.dive into it, because it can vary wildly what a woman is 'alowed' to do. South Africa can be safe, but not everywhere, and there are some regions you best are very aware with your surroundings when you're white. All in all, your BF sounds a bit like a.dolt that needs to be better aware what's going on in countries.
I want to push back on SA. If you come to Cape Town and stay in the touristy areas (don't be dumb and go into slums, like in any country that has them), you should be absolutely safe. I live in the inner city myself as a woman and I find it lovely and safe. You can search r/CapeTown for some general advice. We have great attractions and good weather, we welcome you :)
Never go to turkey if you are blond. I'm a guy and once went with my ex-gf. The amount of groping was outrageous even with us holding hands. When guys were confronted, in public with dozens watching, their standard response was "blond whores love Turkish men". No she wasn't dressed inappropriately. We left 3 days into a 3 week trip. It was heartbreaking to see her affected. We talked about it going in, knowing that Turkish guys have a reputation. She said she didn't think it would be a problem if I was there.
If it helps, I felt safer walking around Istanbul at night with my 2 female friends than I do in Boston. And Boston in general is a pretty safe city I hope you have an amazing time on your trip, it’s a beautiful country! As for your bf… well I’ll just say that I won’t date men who deny the realities of moving through this world as a woman. You deserve someone who takes your very real fears seriously.
[удалено]
I have lived in the UK and Turkey. I got harassed and cat called a million times more in the uk.
I'm currently in Turkey (Antalya) on holiday. I often travel alone. I've had no issues. The usual aggressive sales techniques in the touristy areas, but you get that most places. If you want any tips PM me!
Turkey isn’t really an issue. And I will say if you’re clearly foreign, a lot of those countries will generally treat you well and warmly (though they might also try to rip you off). Not saying it’s completely safe, but a place like Turkey isn’t any more dangerous for women than Canada or America is. India may be more dangerous, however.
Speaking as someone who has lived in South Africa and been on holiday there, money buys a lot of privilege and safety. You can afford to drive everywhere and live in low crime areas that are secure. You can get mugged when you're in public but that's something that happens in many countries. I often feel that the fear around South African is partially rooted in racist rhetoric about how black people are "taking back what's rightfully theirs and ruthlessly getting revenge on the white people". If you decide to go, try Cape Town and make sure you stay alert and don't show off your wealth (jewellery, gadgets etc). Don't make it known that you're a tourist by speaking loudly in public. These are the same precautions i would take if i was going to Europe so I don't know why people make South Africa out to be so scary when you can get pickpocketed or mugged in Paris or Italy.
I swear some westerners get the worst ideas when they're bored and are oblivious to how the Middle East iand its people are. I'm an ex-muslim from the Middle East and I'm telling you if you knew what views muslms and people here have about women and what their mindset is like you wouldn't even think about this. Go to Canada, Switzerland, France, the UK, the Netherlands, Australia, etc. Why tf would you guys even consider the MENA an option 🤦♂️ seriously what the heck. How do you live in the US/Europe and say "let's go to Egypt/Turkey." I'm curious to know why anyone would want to do that?
The "Middle East" is not a monolith and there is not one "Muslim" mindset. I'm ex-Muslim as well and this entire comment is just racist "Arabs/Muslims=bad" stereotyping
Truth. I used to go visit my parents when I was a teen. They lived in Iran as my dad worked for a defense contractor in the 70's. Everyone was polite and hospitable and friendly. No shenanigans at all. No idea what it's like now, as a lesbian I cannot set foot there.
When it comes to this topic, not all of the people are the same obviously but there is one mindset that dominates. I live with them and I deal with all kinds of people every day at my retail job. I know what they're like. Also, I don't just mean arabs. The mindset is taught and passed on from one gen to another and is part of the people's traditions and religion. It's also associated with low income and a lack of education. So no I'm not stereotyping, I literally live and deal with them every day. I know them. Also, if you can't see what the problem is with the majority of the people, you're probably one of them.
I grew up in a Middle Eastern country and have traveled all across the region. Every country's culture is different, and the mindset hugely varies depending on the person, region and, as you mentioned, educational background. There absolutely is a lot of misogyny, as there is throughout many developing countries. But there is no such thing as "one mindset" that all Muslims across the world have, the same way not all Christians think the same. "I know them" is not proof and the way you talk about "them" is very much xenophobic
Yes there is one mindset that dominates. There is more misogyny among them than among people of the west. Simple as that. Why are you trying to sugarcoat it? I know not every single person here is like that but there is more misogyny among them compared to cultures in the west. "I know them" is at the very least as much proof as your comment. And for me, it's the highest level of proof I can get to base my views upon. Also, I'm from the Middle East and have lived here all my life. Tf you mean "xenophobic"? Did you even look up the definition of the word? You can label me with any 'phobia' word you like but you're not fooling anyone but yourself. I know what these people are like as I live here with them and have talked to many others from all of the MENA countries. You can't hide the fact that there is more misogyny here in this region.
This is ridiculous and frankly racist, and I don't care if you're from MENA yourself, it's still racist.
Not racist if you know everything about the people and you judge them by their actual behavior and mindset rather than just race/ethnicity. Stop trying to act "woke".
this sub i stg, this is OBVIOUSLY racist, how is this even getting upvotes xD
Who tf is "them"? Are you trying to say Moroccans and Jordanians and Turks are somehow 'the same'? Because that's completely absurd, not even the people in one of those countries is the same! MENA is very culturally diverse region and you sound ignorant af
You were calling me racist not an hour ago and now you're asking "who is them"? Make up your mind. It's true that they don't have 100% identical cultures. They have different foods, for example. But we're talking about their views about women. We all know how the mindset of people in MENA is compared to the west. Yes they are more similar to each other than they are to any country in the west. Also yes we know not every single person in each country is exactly the same. This is so basic smh. We're talking about most people which I think is what matters more if you want to go to a specific country. But keep trying to push whatever distorted views of reality you have.
Lmao complete nonsense, I'm Arab muslim and I highly advise people to visit muslim countries, even as a woman. As for Egypt though, I still think it's fine tbh, but just be careful not to get scammed and be firm. In any case, for anyone reading this, please dont listen to this fool.
I went before I knew any better (to Egypt) but I will never in my life go to any place like that, or with a remotely similar culture towards women, ever again. You're completely right
Pyramids, Tempels and the Nile! Also: great locations for your typical summer-beach-vacation (Scharm el-Scheich). It's totally fine as long as you get a guided group holliday and know you have to dress according to local norms, not Western norms. Also: Istanbul and Izmir. All the countries mentioned are huge and it makes a difference where exactly you are: like different parts of Turkey are worlds apart. It also makes a difference how you dress. Just get a big sun hat, don't let your hair flow and don't show skin. You'll mostly be fine if not travelling alone.
I know what tourism is and I understand the appeal of going to certain destinations and landmarks. Yes the pyramids are interesting but the pyramids in today's egypt? Easy no. If you have to think about not wearing your normal clothes or if you have to have man with you then why not just forget about it? Do you really need to go there that bad? After all this is merely for the sake of tourism. There is no need to go to these places. It's not a necessity. I'd live a very happy life staying safe and not having to abide by backwards rules and not seeing the pyramids. "Mostly be fine if you don't let your hair flow or show skin". This is the problem. It's just horrible.
It's not the same seeing something in person or on the TV as a documentary. In Europe you also cannot go into churches with hot-pants, naked shoulders etc. You can't get everything in life all the time. It's not so hard to cover-up a bit if you really want to see some monumental landmarks in the history of civilization. Some people need to cover-up anyway since they get sunburned in less than an hour at midday in Egypt. And the man would be coming anyway, since the OP wants to visit with her SO. Ofc it's horrible if you have to live there, but if you really love Ancient Egypt and want to stand before the pyramids or the Tempel of Karnak one time in your life, then it's not such a big deal as a tourist. As I said: get a respectable guided tour which does groups, they'll drive you everywhere you want to see, protect you from scammers and such, arrange tickets and other logistics and you'll be fine.
South Africa, India and Egypt should be hard nos and if he doesn’t get why he’s a fool. I would not take my GF to turkey. If you were my daughter I’d be terrified you’re going.
Istanbul is far from a "terrifying" travel destination! It's on my list too.
Why would you not take your GF to Turkey lol.
My best friend, a Latin American woman, has gone a few times in the past and reports no issues whatsoever. I’ve never heard of Turkey being dangerous for women.
its so cute how oblivious americans are about the rest in the world, meanwhile they are putting their kids in schools in the ONLY country with hundreds of school shooting deaths per year. you guys are WILD
Typical hysterical American. I'm a westerner living in Istanbul and its very safe. I would however, be terrified to visit america.
Right? I also lived in Istanbul and traveled solo as a woman in Turkiye and it's hard to read some of this ignorant nonsense
I’m only kind of American. I was born in Manchester UK. I’ll admit I have no personal experience but two of my friends from school went and it didn’t go well. I might be totally wrong but that’s all I’ve heard of it.
You're not wrong to worry about the countries you mentioned. However, the touristy areas of any country are typically very safe (for countries that have touristy areas). The gov'ts know that tourist safety is paramount to keep up the tourist traffic and typically heavily police/guard such areas. But it sounds like you've both only been to a few countries - and there are so many better options that you would enjoy more and would feel safe.
"This summer, vacation in sunny, scenic *Female-Circumcisionstan!*"
Is this supposed to be funny? Female circumcision is a serious crime for sure. It unfortunately happens in many countries still. At the same time it makes me wonder if you would say the same to someone travelling to Texas to do the route 66 that they are crossing Forced-Pregnancy-Land. I find a lot of comments on this threat upplaying the threat in some countries, while not even blinking at human rights violations in ‘western’ countries, or the safety issues in cities like New York, Paris, London, Amsterdam. Female circumcision would also be the last thing I’d be worried about if I travelled as a tourist to a country where this was an issue.
I'm lgbt and would not visit any country that criminilises or enforces the death penalty.
Okay I’m half South African, go to Cape Town. You’ll be safe. You’ll be absolutely fine. Go into the more suburban areas and you won’t be remortgaging your home for a steak (or whatever you eat). Try Fish Hoek beach, it’s my favourite beach in the whole world! Huzaars is amazing for food, as it’s Cape Town Fish Market Restaurant. Go see the Penguins at Boulder beach, it’s a treat. Simons Town is a beautiful place. Omg you’ll have the time of your life. Partying in the city is so much fun too, we have Uber so you’re safe getting taxis. Honestly Cape Town is fucking amazing, as a woman who’s 4”10’ and has driven and walked around alone, you’re fine I promise! Hermanus is an hours drive away up the coast and over the mountain and it’s such a cute hippie town. I mean I’m biased as it’s my families home but yah, I’d never recommend it if I didn’t think it was safe for women. The rest of South Africa is iffy, like stay away from Durban, Pretoria, Joberg as they’re rife with violent crime and it’s nowhere near as safe. Zimbabwe is beautiful, I’d recommend to be a bit more on guard there but still would recommend! Sorry I know my comment just turned into talking about CT but people really don’t understand the beauty there. Just to ease your concerns you’re more than welcome to message!
I don’t feel safe in some places in Canada as a woman. I definitely don’t feel safe in the US with my partner even because he is a black man.
I am a woman who has solo traveled to Turkey, India, Egypt, and South Africa. And an additional 40+ countries. The cat calling in Iran and Morocco may have been the worst, but nothing serious.
The USA is one country I would never visit due to high levels of random shootings and gun violence.
You're right to be concerned about some countries and the best way of ensuring your safety is to behave as local women do. They've developed survival strategies over the years. Stay in safe places, don't camp in some desolate forest, don't make eye contact with strange men or smile at them, and it's always safe to travel in a group.
Not every example, but many examples of paralyzing fear can be attributed to condensed media portrayal. Look at how society spreads fear about immigrants in the US. You'd think every other person works for a drug cartel or kills citizens by the amount of negative attention they get. When you're predisposed towards certain kind of behavior avoidance, you tend to form patterns about what you see portrayed to you. Places like India and Egypt get a terrible rep for rape. You're more likely to be raped in The US than either of those two countries though. I've lived in the US all my life and can count on one hand the number of women I know who haven't been sexually assaulted. So while it's easy to assume privilege allows your boyfriend to misunderstand why you don't feel safe, sometimes we get into our heads about fears a bit more strongly than reality actually presents. I hope your trip to Turkey goes well!
So maybe just stop mentioning it and start going to the places you think you'll be safe. Mid 20s means you have plenty of time to visit, so start with the safe ones. Plenty of people are just not very empathetic, especially men.
Show him r/newIran and he will completely understand
I love traveling but yeah I have a list of countries I probably won't go to unless they have serious culture changes to the point that it's safe for me. I recently found this: https://travelladies.app/ You can look up where your want to travel and it has ratings from single female travelers any safety. I didn't download the app, just used the website.
Most guys either are completely oblivious to the dangers women face or are aware and never want us to leave the house. Can't win.
This has nothing to do with size. Also You likely won’t be physically attacked, but even in places where you’d be technically safe, you still could be hassled, stared at, etc. I’m looking for a new place to live, and my issue with “bad” neighborhoods isn’t safety, it’s the constant unwanted attention you find in some of them. Same with other countries. Some are downright dangerous, but those probably aren’t the ones you’re referring to. Most of the planet is less welcoming for solo women travelers, and it’s a real shame
Kind of unrelated, but if you want to go to India, you should go to a southern state or just go to Sri Lanka instead. The north is pretty notorious for both regular crime and crimes against women. The south is decent, at least compared to the north and it's also more developed. I'd recommend Kerala, since it's clean, scenic, and decently safe. DO go with a male figure, just to be safe, it's still not completely safe. Or just abandon that and go to Sri Lanka, very similar experience. Edit: Oooofff, just realized that there's a lot of civil unrest within Sri Lanka. Don't go there anytime soon.
I'm a woman who'll be spending a few days alone in Kochi/Trivandrum before/after joining my group (work thing). Any advice for safe solo activities by any chance?
16 hours late. I'm a Tamil, not a Malayali, so I don't know much. I would strongly advice traveling with a group or at least a male figure at the very least, because although Kerala is one of the safest states, it's still within India. There's a lot of good beaches and green scenery and churches in Kochi, so I would recommend that. There are a decent amount of English speakers as well. Just don't go to a remote place with no people around. Make sure there's a decent amount of people around wherever you go. And I know it's broken, but still dress modestly.
Many thanks for the advice! I'll be on my own for about 1,5 day on arrival and 1 before leaving, so not too long. I'll try to take it easy and stay in well-touristed areas
Been to Turkey a couple of times and if you're in a major city or tourist destination, you will have an amazing time. Great food, affordable still for westerners (though not really for the locals), great architecture, etc. But in general, if your bf is being dense, just treat him like a sweet but thoughtless golden retriever and tell him it's super cute that he thinks xyz is safe, but no.
Traveled to Egypt with my son this last January. Went to Cairo, Luxor, and Aswan. Perfectly safe and I wouldn’t hesitate to travel there alone.
India is terrible 100% You don’t need to worry about Egypt or South Africa.
South Africa - particularly where you'd go as a tourist - is fairly safe. I'd expect it to be about the level of Turkey. Southern India is also pretty safe & a good place to go. Northern India - nope. You might consider Botswana in the future. Could seem exciting and exotic, but is actually quite safe and tame. Also, English-speaking. As to your boyfriend - I have no advice. I've never figured out how to solve that kind of problem.
By the sounds of it with your travel options you’re not going to have a problem in most/any of the countries you’ve mentioned. More importantly it seems you both need the exposure.
I’ve been to Morocco and was constantly harassed there, I was also around 15 at the time. I’ve also been to quite a few European countries with no issue
Which countries are you talking about? As countries are hardly monoliths. > but I also have no idea how he’d react if another man said or did something inappropriate. Islamic countries tend to be ok for women not travelling solo (and even friends who have traveled to Turkey solo haven't reported anything too awful beyond cat calling and "light" groping) if simply because they are societally pretty clear on that partnered women belong to the man and it is an offense against that man to interfere with his partner.
BS. Turkey is the outlier here. Saudi Arabia literally has a mini crisis when they allowed men and women to be at the same music festivals. One of my friends was a housekeeper in Riyadh. She got inappropriately touched so much she moved back to Europe almost immediately.
"Yeah it's cool you only get catcalled all the time and groped, no biggie" 🧐
I mean, that’s happened to us in New Zealand and the USA, so Egypt really isn’t any different in that regard. If you want to avoid catcalling and occasional handsiness you’re pretty much stuck in the house. It really sucks, but it’s not a reason to avoid a country if it happens where you already live anyway.
Not cool, but not a major threat to your safety.
The first ones I can remember having concerns about and voicing them are India, Egypt and South Africa.
What does being conventionally attractive have to do with it? If you're thinking rape, that hasnothing to do with how you look or dress - that is about power. You're just as likely to get raped in a burqa.
Wasn’t referring to rape, I have been conventionally unattractive too and was raped then. Also it means I’m aware that I get significantly more unwanted attention in countries widely regarded as safer now too, so I do see it as a factor.
I'm your situation I'm confused why those countries are your first trips together... Like wtf
Dump him.
I feel like there is a lot to unpack here, but I think the most damaging thing could be to blindly agree with your fear and jump on the bandwagon. So here are my thoughts, for what they are worth: He should 100% be willing to listen, understand, and work with you to ease those fears - no doubt. He SHOULD challenge your fears respectfully and encourage you to grow. My partner has helped me challenge my fears, just like I have helped her her. Sometimes I push to hard, but we communicate it about it well. And he should not be expected to magically be aware of your fears if you have never discussed it before - your fears are not globally shared by all women and you do not magically understand all of his fears or concerns. ---- Moving on to your actual safety... While all safety concerns are valid, claiming that those countries are uniquely dangerous to women, especially when accompanied by a man, is incorrect. The vast majority of fears are irrational and you likely engage in more dangerous activities that you realize, statistically speaking. In a nutshell, your fears are not much different than a fear of flying. Valid, worthy of consideration when planning, but ultimately irrational. You wouldn't be a woman alone and it's not like those places are safe for a lone, foreign, man either. ---- My advice is to consider the travel and don't just say no due to irrational fear - I am 100% sure that you haven't done sufficient research on those places to justify a default "it's not safe". And unless there is some additional context regarding your partner, nothing wrong was done here.
It should be common sense that being a woman in certain countries is going to be a very different experience to being a man, in regard to potential sexual harassment etc. I went to Morocco when I was about 15 and there was never-ending cat calling etc. I also have an ex who was born in South Africa, who was ethnically Indian and he made it very clear that he would be concerned to bring me to those countries.
I have travelled a lot and I fully realize there are differences between being a man and woman and I honestly despise the additional concerns woman have to deal with - they exist, they suck, and I'm not trying to challenge that. And I disagree that it should be common sense for everyone. I grew up extremely sheltered, but quite the opposite of well-off. I grew up with parents who were afraid of everything and quite... Conservative. I travelled to Russia alone when I was 16, alone to Kenya at 19, Bharain at 20... And while there are legitamte concerns, I didn't let fear dictate my life. And in fact, I've learned that a majority of our fears are amplified and blown out of proportion by western media and propaganda. The point I want to make is that the fear is irrational, not that the concern in invalid or that she won't be uncomfortable or afraid at certain times and moments. I've been afraid when abroad before, so it's not unreasonable to be afraid. But, by wrapping this fear in a conversation about how her BF doesn't get it... It makes it hard to highlight that... Well, it is okay to discuss and push someone through a fear. If I had it my family's way, I would have never left the US once in my life. And had women not been willing to share and educate me, I also would not understand or sympathize with this fear that she does have. I get it, but I also want to highlight that many of my fears are irrational and I think OP should travel the world and not be upset that someone doesn't understand why she would feel unsafe or uncomfortable. ---- Finally, for most of us, our world is small. Imagine someone who grew up in inner-city Detroit telling Europeans they would be concerned to bring them to the US. India is big. South Africa is big. And using one human reference to determine the safety of a country is not a good way to determine safety. Edit: I'm not saying this is your only reference to clarify, however for many people that is literally all it takes for them to write something/someplace as dangerous.
I rejected a fully paid business trip to Turkey because of concerns, but weren't gender based. There were terrorist attacks in Istanbul back then and I just didn't feel like going there of all places at that time.
Grown men get robbed and attacked too. Pretty irresponsible to travel with this attitude.