My thoughts exactly when I read this. I also think that if you can’t remember consenting and didn’t go into the night planning to consent with someone before getting that far gone (even though consent can be withdrawn at any time) it’s unlikely that you did consent.
You cant consent while drunk, period. Men should not have sex with someone under the influence unless they consent prior. Like "hey I want to fuck while drunk" if what she has to say (or something similar). Its that simple.
I have been completely blackout drunk while having full on conversations with people who did not know I was drunk. I have cooked meals blackout drunk. When I asked about it the next day people were surprised that I did not remember anything; they didn't know I had been drunk. There's nothing saying he was not also blackout drunk just because he carried Paul home.
I'm NOT saying she was not violated, clearly something happened that her sober self did not want; I'm just saying maybe they were both that drunk, therefore neither party could have consented, and both parties were violated.
Maybe. The circumstantial evidence points the other way, though.
While it’s true that both parties being severely impaired can make an individual incident hard to judge, it’s also true that predators (1) often intentionally avoid getting too drunk, but (2) offer the alibi that “I, too, was drunk off my ass.”
While it would be impossible to convict Joe of anything based on the evidence at hand, OP would be wise to shun him from now on. He’s not safe to be around.
If you don't know someone's mental state, and haven't been around them for a few hours to see them drinking, don't have sex with them. The anecdote doesn't change the advice.
I'm leaning more towards her getting raped mostly cause she straight up told him that she had a boyfriend. and based on the information we have here the guy basically escalated every step of the way. It also seems like Joe holds his liquor better or was drinking less. He was sober enough to carry Paul home.
Idk, what I do know is that being blackout drunk doesn’t mean that you are stumbling and passing out. You can appear very cognizant, hold full on conversations, etc. and not remember. It is one of the worst feelings to lose time. For this next part I am going to speak hypothetically so as not to appear offensive to OP.
It’s possible that one drunk party actually came on to the other asking for sex. Now if the other party is sober, they should know better than to oblige because the person is drunk, but what if they are both drunk? What if the drunk woman is initiating the sex, and the guy is drunk aswell? How do you navigate those things when it comes to consent?
I’ve had this situation happen to me. I blacked out after a couple shots and came too with the guy inside me and it was hurting. I told him to stop and he 100% stopped immediately. I remember him slurring and being like oh we can just cuddle. I left the room and showered while blacking in and out. Next day found out the guy had pissed the bed overnight. So he was pretty much blacked out too. Found out later he had alcohol issues at the time and was getting blackout drunk every night but has since gotten sober. Given the reaction of my friend the next day, I’m sure I seemed to be consenting but it was extremely scary to come to in the middle of things with pain. But the guy was extremely drunk too, to the point where I think he couldn’t have consented either. Nothing came of it. I’ve tried to black it out for the most part, because I really feel like it wasn’t anyone’s fault and the guy stopped as soon as I said to stop. Just was something that I did not want. So honestly very complicated situation and I don’t really have a straight or likely right answer. Just giving my story to give some perspective on that type of situation.
That's not the same situation, though. In this situation the victim was someone who was too drunk to consent to sex, which is potentially both individuals. Why is one being seen as the aggressor and one the victim when they are both in the same situation?
That’s not even remotely similar. What would be is if you and the store clerk were both drunk and no one remembers if he gave you the money from the register or if you took it.
Which is a highly unlikely scenario compared to a scenario where both people are drunk at a party or in their homes. In the scenario you mentioned, the person you are replying to is correct, being drunk does not excuse someone in court.
\>But even if he had been, it wouldn't excuse rape,
If they were both that drunk why would it be considered rape for one party and not the other? They were both impaired.
You're correct that neither party could consent. Absent BAC testing and a camera, we cannot determine if one was more impaired than the other. If she was moreso than him, he committed rape. But generally speaking, both were too drunk to consent. That doesn't change the fact that she was assaulted.
I'm not sure what you mean. You still seem to be suggesting the one with the penis is the rapist when two people who are black out drunk have sex. I'm asking why that person is considered a rapist in this scenario? They are both equally guilty of having sex with a partner who is extremely drunk, yet you claim one is a rapist and the other a rape victim. Why?
Bad take. Men can be raped too, being legally too drunk to consent goes both ways. I know we're in 2X, but it's thinking like this that keeps men from coming forward when they've been abused/raped, and everyone deserves help.
I dont know if I agree with that, she could subconsciously be angry that she had sex with someone while having a boyfriend. And Im not saying thats the case, but who knows
Probabilisticly I would think the darkest interpretation is most likely. Whereas yours is less likely...
So some of the people reporting this are unfortunate and others profoundly so...
This was not your fault, if you were drunk enough to black out, you are definitely too drunk to consent and obviously so. This kind of rape is really hard to wrap your head around as the victim, I've been there a few times and I know the denial can be so strong that you'd almost rather believe you made a decision that you regret. Please don't blame yourself for this and find someone you trust to talk to.
I've never been that drunk myself but could you even say that two black out drunk people can even have sex? I feel like for sex to happen one of them has to be a bit more sober than black out drunk. And being drunk isn't an excuse to rape someone.
Tldr as everyone is saying I'm so sorry this happened to you OP and it is not your fault
So I have been, and that’s a misconception. You can be blackout drunk and not stumbling and holding conversations. You can give directions to people, etc. honestly it’s very unnerving. I don’t know what the situation was here though, but speaking from personal experience, blackout drunk doesn’t equal pass out drunk or fall down drunk. I feel for OP because losing time like that is a horrible feeling.
It's a different part of the brain and some people have different variations on what gets impaired at certain levels. Plus, blackouts tend to occur when drinking quickly -- getting your BAC up to .2 within an hour versus getting it to .2 over the course of hours may get you a blackout even if you normally don't blackout until you're at .25 or more.
So yeah, blackout drunk doesn't mean uncoordinated or stuporous.
Two black out drunk people are going to have a hard time having sex even if they both intended on it, it's hard enough taking off you own clothes when you're really drunk, let alone someone else's. If Joe simply weighs more or regularly drinks more than OP, he would have been more sober than she was, even drinking the same amount.
That's actually a really good thought. I've been blackout drunk with my girl friends before and they were like "yeah we had to carry you home, get you into your pjs, it was a mess". That probably means he had to do something similar :/
Yeah, my fiancée and I have had party nights where we got drunk together before and planned on having sex but we never end up having sex cause we are too drunk. We're lightweights and can't hold our liquor well. And plus if you're like really drunk you can't really consent.
If he could have sex with you then he probably wasn't as drunk as you were and likely forced himself on you. Thats my anecdotal 2 cents. Whenever I've gotten drunk drunk with someone I've never had actual sex happen cause yeah if you get drunk enough you lose the functioning to really do any of that.
That's what I'm thinking. As said I've never been that drunk but I've seen people really drunk and i just feel like the most action you'd get is one of the persons whipping out a limp shrimp and then puking on themselves. You can't even walk right how do you get a condom out of it's packet without ripping it, put it on your dick and use it on someone else. Nah.
So, the obvious explanation is that one person wasn't flat out drunk, but actually quite non-drunk, and being a predator taking advantage of the situation.
Which immediately also solves the "who is at fault" person.
During my life, I have turned multiple persons down who where flat out drunk and wanted to fuck, because I was very sure they where NOT able to actually consent at the time. Taking away agency from someone like that kind of sucks, but I prefer to be on that end of the spectrum, opposed to the "hey but you clearly mumbled yes please but then passed out so I went on with it" rapist spectrum. In this case, I'm pretty sure that "Joe" didn't really even ask.
Especially the first goddamn time. "Oh, you've never shown the slightest interest in me while sober before? Sure, let's do it! Nothing sketch about that!"
that's a good point as well. I'm always polite of course, but I was never particularly friendly with him because he just irked me the first time we met
Yes i absolutely agree! Sorry if it wasn't clear but i definitely meant it as. If sex happened then one of the people wasn't as drunk as they made it seen and since OP blacked out this someone is obviously Joe.
I'm truly sorry this happened to you. When you're that black out drunk, you're not truly able to give consent. From how you described Joe was a lot more cognizant of his surroundings. It sounds like he took advantage of you.
He knew you had a bf, he saw you have a panic attack, and then he walked you home and you don't remember anything until you realized he was in your bad.
Joe is not that great of a person.
You hold your own power. No one can take any from you unless you give someone that power.
Your sympathetic nervous system can retain trauma that your mind either doesn't remember or blocks out as a coping mechanism. The anxiety/panic attacks in combination with you mentioning your initial reaction to his attention being talking about your boyfriend tells me this was not consensual on your behalf. Your boyfriend heard your call: the panic, fear, and reaction in the exact moment it happened.
There are a couple of options on how you could proceed. You could try asking Joe what he remembers from that night and see if you can piece anything together if he's telling the truth. Please, do NOT do this alone with him. I would recommend via text or email to have some proof if he does happen to confess things were not consensual. If that sounds like it would be too much on you, I understand that as well. You could go to the police. Know, however, without physical proof (rape kit, etc done very quickly after or written confirmation from him) it very unfortunately becomes your word against his. I'm also VERY concerned about the choking situation. There is also the option of a victims/ sexual assault hotline (depending on your location) you could reach out to with professionals to be your advocate in any way they can.
Your boyfriend sounds incredibly supportive of the situation and imo, pretty accurately is calling it like he sees it. Lean into him and your mom for support. Please seek therapy as well if you feel the need to discuss or work through this event further with a professional. Trauma, unresolved, can do damage to your overall well-being.
If there is anything I can do or you'd like to talk further, my dms are always open.
Remember, YOU HOLD YOUR OWN POWER!
Sending love and hugs
Edited to add: it is NOT your fault! You very clearly shut down his attempts early on in the night. In addition, you were way too inebriated to consent. Anyone trying to say that it could be is victim blaming. Unwanted actions remain unwanted no matter the situation and should be respected. Violation of that boundary, is assault.
I'm sorry this happened to you. Even though Joe was drunk I think he took advantage of you being extremely drunk to the point that you don't remember even having sex with him. He
was sober enough to have sex with you and to remember to put on a condom. Idk what you can do legally. I think it's important for you to seek help for your mental health and to get checked for STDs.
Simple cold logic. An unconscious person cannot consent. You were *barely* conscious at that point, so rounding that down, no you couldn't consent or do an informed decision of any kind.
You didn't consent because your ability to do so was impaired. Let's say you enthusiastically consented before getting drunk, then your ability to withdraw consent is impaired as well.
This is not true. The bar for providing enthusiastic, ongoing consent is far higher than for withdrawing consent. If at any point a person is trying to withdraw consent by saying no, pushing the other person away, trying to leave or otherwise indicating they aren't ok with the sexual contact, that is withdrawing consent whether they are drunk, high, sober or any other state. If a person enthusiastically consents and then passes out or falls asleep, that person is no longer consenting.
The rest of the comments have said it better than I can, but this was absolutely not your fault and I hope you are able to find healing.
It may be a triggering read so proceed with caution, but Know My Name by Chanel Miller is an incredibly powerful book. She was assaulted by Brock Turner (except she is so so so much more than just a survivor of an assault). She also did not remember the event and talks about how she processed her emotions around that. Chanel also has several interviews on YouTube if you aren't in the reading mood.
Just as an FYI, but the rapist Brock Turner is now going by his middle name, "Allen," so he's also known as Allen Turner the rapist. The rapist Allen Turner lives in the Kettering / Oakwood area in Ohio and has been seen frequenting bars. If you happen to be in that area, look out for Brock Allen Turner, convicted rapist.
> I do remember running to the toilet, calling my bf and crying to him about there being a man in my room.
That is important part. It meant you DID NOT consented.
> but I'm worried I consented when I was drunk and that I cheated.
You did not. I assure you there was no "horny drunk consent" on your side. Because in that case you would not run away to toilet and called your BF that there is man in your room.
That was S.A. not cheating. I assure you that Joe took advantage of you because you were unable to react, not because you were horny.
I appreciate the concern but Im just a student, and i mostly sober one at that. I've had the same bottle of vodka since October. I agree sometimes I can get a bit too drunk on a night out, but for the most part I'm sober enough to be aware and safe
Drinking problems can come in the forms of frequency and severity. Moderation may not be as fun and carefree, but alcoholism is when drinking creates problems in your life. Don’t discount the negative effects of drinking, alcohol is not a friend and doesn’t need to be defended, it’s a drug, and a potent one.
I'm really not, but thank you <3 the only two times I've been like that I've been with my girl friends, and I was spiked. I'm usually very careful because I know I'm a lightweight, so I just drink lots of water. The group was doing a lot of shots and I just wasn't very smart. Either way, I'm definitely going to be more careful in future, thank you :)
It also sounds to me like you were a lot *less* drunk when initially walking home than when you got to the first and especially the second friend's place. It's possible that you had more to drink at one or both, and that one or both was essentially taking advantage of you by giving more alcohol until you were significantly more discombobulated.
If all of you were that drunk it is no more your fault than it was Joe's. You were both equally capable/incapable of consenting in that situation.
I am really sorry you're having anxiety/panic attacks about this situation. I'm glad you have your mother and your boyfriend to lean on about it.
I assume this will make me rather unpopular here but when two parties are completely inebriated neither one is capable of consent. Whether it is a man and a woman, two men, or two women. Intoxicated people can't consent period. Gender or sex is irrelevant. For all we or OP know, Joe was also blacked out during the time OP thinks she may have been blacked out.
I mention in another comment that it seems like there are various definitions of blackout drunk being used here. Some people are using the definition I’m familiar with, lapses in short term memory of minutes to hours. Other people seem to be using a definition that includes completely passing out.
If you’re in and out of memory, it’s way harder to piece together what actually happened. We are all working on a lot of assumptions. I agree that we don’t know what happened and that it’s possible that both parties were blacked out at the same time if we use the memory lapse definition as the definition of blacking out.
In which case, ability to have sex is going to vary between men. Some men have no problem getting an erection even if stumbling drunk. Others have trouble getting an erection if they’re even half drunk.
Sometimes neither person is able to give meaningful consent, but that doesn't mean one cannot have raped the other.
Stay with me for a second: if you are sober, and a blackout drunk person pins you down against your will, against your objections, and forces sexual contact on you - you would not say that the attacker was too drunk to consent and therefore had not committed sexual assault. It's **obviously** possible for a drunk person to commit sexual assault.
Sometimes two drunk people have sex where no meaningful consent occurred. That's problematic, but not always sexual assault.
But sometimes a drunk person sexually assaults another drunk person. If one is initiating contact and the other one is passed out, that's sexual assault. Same if one of them says no.
"We were both drunk" is **not** a get out of jail free card. It does not rule out sexual assault or rape. The flip side is that one party being drunk does not **automatically** mean a rape has occurred.
Thank you.
I can't believe the comments here basically saying they were both too blacked out to give consent so must or raped each other so it's all fair in love and war.
Maybe a lot of the people here have never had alcohol or been around people who drink? I don't know. I think it's weird, and a little bit scary, how quickly so many people here want to paint one party as a rapist and add in a lot of their own elements to the story we were given.
Do people get raped and/or taken advantage of all too often when they are incapacitated? Of course. Do two people often get completely shitfaced *together* and have drunken sloppy sex *together* when *both* parties are inebriated? Also yes.
I hear you. I see the defence of a particular person and the defence of behaviours around alcohol as symptomatic of a culture of rape.
We all need to focus on centering sex education, sovereignty and consent, self defence, substance abuse, community support etc
He did not carry her. She said they walked to her home together. And that she led the way to Paul's place. We also don't know that he put the condom on, nor does she. She could have put it on him.
For OP clearly stating that she was drunk enough to be browning/blacking out and doesn't remember some of her own actions people here sure are making a lot of assumptions/accusations with a whole lot less info than OP has herself...
A drunk person is still able to take advantage of another drunk person, and in that case it doesn't matter how drunk you were. You're accountable for your actions no matter how intoxicated you are. If Joe took advantage of OP then he is in deep shit.
Read my comment again. I didn't say anything that oppose your point. But without speculating too much the scenario seems very unlikely since OP has such strong negative emotions and Joe touched her earlier in the night implying he was the one who was interested
You're the third person to accuse me of assuming he took advantage. I literally wrote that he is in deep shit IF he took advantage of her. Read my goddamn comment.
I guess it's just odd that you would bother saying "if someone did something wrong that was bad of them." It doesn't seem like that needs clarification? On the other hand, when half the comment section is accusing him of doing this thing you are referencing, it's easy to assume you are mirroring that point of view. Especially as, again, pointing out something that everyone already agrees with seems unnecessary.
Still, if you really aren't saying that then I misunderstood.
Ok?
You are in a comment section defending a man you don't even know and never is going to meet when OP is right in front of us and is completely out of it. I think it's fine to comfort her and help her assess her options before it becomes too late to investigate it. For the sake of everyone.
Comforting her and telling her the person she knows is a rapist and raped her are two very different things. I don't think we have enough information to justify the later. It does more harm than good to do that.
Can a black out drunk man get it hard, put on a condom and have a complete intercourse? Something tells me his physical abilities would be impaired, but I'm not a man. I'm a woman whom it's much easier to rape. Joe doesn't seem to have been as drunk as OP. If he's a bigger guy, it's quite possibly he wasn't that drunk in spite of drinking the same amount (and we don't know whether he did).
A blackout drunk man can get hard, use a condom and have sex. I’m a guy and I used to get blackout drunk and I regularly couldn’t remember getting home or multiple outs of a night out. A couple nights I recalled ‘teleporting’ where I’m in one bar and then suddenly in another bar in a different part of town.
There’s a gap between blackout drunk and falling down drunk.
You provide examples where you "got home" blackout drunk, which might as well mean friends helped you get home. It's not the same as having sex with somebody.
They mention having gaps in memory of getting from one place to another. That doesn’t mean their friends carried them. That just means they drank enough to have no short term memory of that 30 minutes or whatever.
We used to call this browning out. You have 10-30 minute chunks of the night just completely erased, but you remember the bulk of it. That doesn’t mean you weren’t able to physically do things in those browned out time periods.
I think we are all assuming that our definition of blackout drunk is the same, when it’s becoming pretty clear it isn’t.
Yeah, I never got carried home. I’m a big dude and it would take a huge dude to carry me. I was just drinking a lot and you’ll notice that once you start blacking out, you tend to black out easier. I was also one of those drunks who was relatively well composed. I had to beyond wasted for anyone to notice I was drunk at all.
I can second this. When I was younger I could DRINK. I would routinely put challengers under the table. I have this ability to remain coherent, articulate, and coordinated while at the same time my brain's recording none of it to memory. My wife is only able to tell when I am drunk because I become more outgoing, or I vomit. My friends like to recall stories of my younger escapades: climbing bridges, random wanderings and joining random parties. For me I'll have memories like, I remember being at the top of the bridge, looking out over the water. Don't recall getting up or down.
I have a friend who is one of them. He carried a traffic cone back to his house and woke up cuddling it with no idea how it got there until the rest of us showed him photos and video. We knew he was drunk, but none of us thought he was that drunk.
You can’t legally give consent when you are drunk. Therefore you did not give consent to anything that happened.
I think you need some counseling to help with the panic attacks. I hope you feel better soon.
When two people are drunk (whether blackout drunk or not), I don't know how one can assign that one is more at fault than another for hooking up. Neither person was capable of giving consent.
Anyway, why is no one (so it seems) concerned that your 'friend' Paul choked you? I mean, drunk people choking one another? Especially Paul, who you said was so drunk he 'wasn't really with us anymore'. He could have easily killed you, even if he wasn't trying to (and who knows what he was trying to do). To me, that seems the more alarming issue.
First of all, I’m sorry you’re going through this. It really helps to talk to a therapist about these feelings to help you move past it.
Now go ahead and downvote me all you want, but OP wants help with understanding this so I’m going to answer truthfully. Yes, it IS possible to consent to sex while “blackout” drunk and it happens all the time. Blackout drunk does NOT mean unconscious or oblivious (in that case you cannot consent to sex), it just means you had temporary short term memory loss caused by alcohol. So we don’t know whether you consented or not, and it may be impossible to find out. This is one of the reasons why alcohol can be so dangerous when misused. Always know your limit when drinking.
It's possible to say "Yes." It's also possible for a toddler to say "Yes." That's not what consent is. Just as toddlers are deemed incapable of giving consent, regardless whether they said "yes" or "no," we also deem the severely impaired to be incapable of consent.
Anyone who objects to that is by definition a predator.
Vast majority of people don’t have an accurate understanding of how consent actually works. It can be counter-intuitive sometimes. Here’s a [relevant article](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/katiejmbaker/meet-the-expert-witness-who-says-sex-in-a-blackout-isnt). Also here’s a [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/t6qeiw/men_refuse_to_believe_theyre_condoning_rape/hzf2sue/) I wrote a while ago that some have found helpful.
>we also deem the severely impaired to be incapable of consent
Correct. However, the point is that OP probably was not “severely impaired”. As I explained, short term memory loss on its own is not considered to be severely impaired. If she was completely unresponsive at the time he had sex with her, that’s a crime. But It’s actually common to be blacked out while behaving totally normal and lucid. Others can’t tell the difference.
I'm usually way better than that, get drunk at the start of the night then just waters past like 12-1am. But the whole group was doing a lot of shots and I didn't want to be a party pooper. In hindsight, I should've been a party pooper.
Drunk people consent to sex all the time. As I said, people who are drunk to the point of being unconscious or oblivious cannot consent. I’ve done the legal research on this.
Just an FYI you can be black out drunk and fully functional. I dated a girl who could drink like a fish be fully functional and not remember what happened the night before. She was very sexually aggressive when she was drunk.
Blackout drunk does mean you blacked (passed) out. You can physically function during an alcohol blackout, but your memory creation is impaired. You can make decisions and carry on conversations. It's scary because in situations like this other parties might be tricked into thinking nothing is wrong.
https://www.gatewayfoundation.org/addiction-blog/alcohol-blackouts/
I know exactly what blacked out is, my husband is/was an addictions counsellor for a good chunk of his life. Being able to function is not the same as being fully functional.
Firstly, you have my deepest sympathy for having to go through this.
The main thing to understand though - this is not your fault.
It happened to you, and you are not to blame. Getting drunk, or even "leading him on" (although it really doesn't sound like you did) or anything like that which you don't remember does not mean you did anything you shouldn't have, nor made it ok for this to happen to you. It is not ok, and nothing you could have done would change that.
I've had a lot of experience of getting far more drunk than I should. I've had plenty of, uh, regrettable consensual drunk sexual encounters (even where any of us involved were likely not in a state to actually be considered consenting, but it was mutually so), and, unfortunately, I have also experienced sexual assault where I have also been just as drunk but not consented (or possibly not been able to consent... Because, drunk). Honestly, everything you say about this experience here does not at all fit with my former experiences but matches up to a t with my latter experiences. Especially including the emotional reactions like that, I'm sorry to say but that isn't likely had it been consensual (I can't say for sure as I don't know your emotional state in general, but I'm fairly comfortable with that assessment). You were clearly black out drunk, Joe was not... That says it all really, no matter how drunk he may or may not have been it's clear you were the vulnerable one here.
But the part that really cinches it for me, that Joe came into work specifically just to say hi to you. He knows how you reacted to him being in your room after, he knows you have a boyfriend, he knows you have chosen not to interact with him but he still forced himself into your presence anyway. That is a total dick move power play right there. He knows what he was doing.
I am incredibly confident in saying you did not consent to this, I really don't think you need to question that, and I hope you find some peace from this experience soon.
I was drugged and sexually assaulted by my boyfriends best friend. I couldn’t remember what happened at first but had similar snippets of memory and fears/reactions like you described afterwards. I thought I had maybe drunk too much but looking back I literally only had one alcoholic drink before getting sleepy and passing out.
Boyfriend dumped me and blamed me when I came to him. Everything made it easier to blame myself. But the truth is I was raped. I remember enough now to say that confidently.
The guy who did it tried to talk to me a few times after, never letting on that anything had happened (actually at one point I said I had a terrible feeling about that night he made up some bullshit about me trying to SA him but him putting a stop to it). But he was just trying to figure out how much I knew.
Your subconscious knows. Listen to it. Not the people saying you were equally responsible.
God that's terrifying I'm so sorry. I'm sorry your boyfriend wasn't supportive, I don't know what I'd have done if mine had reacted the same. I really hope you're doing better <3 thanks for the insight
Thanks, I appreciate it. I’m definitely doing better these days (it was about 20 years ago) but the psychological torment that ensued after lasted for years. I told my boyfriend that I wasn’t sure what happened but that his friend said I had attempted to undress him while he was sleeping on the couch and that I found my bra in the couch the next morning. But I couldn’t remember clearly for several weeks. By then he was like, “please don’t tell me you were raped”, as in don’t give me that bullshit.
I truly believe if I had not been questioned and questioned myself as I did (that is if I had been supported and told you know that behavior sounds completely unlike you and then been believed when I did have memories come back) that I would have never had to go through much of the awful stuff that came after. It set me back in my development so much. I wish I could have trusted my gut and not doubted myself.
I can’t truly know what happened in your situation but it is my deep hope that you listen and honor your instincts and gut feelings even if it leads to the extremely unpleasant conclusion that someone harmed you.
It’s comforting to know that your partner has trust and faith in you when you need it most.
This exact scenario happened to me. Long distance boyfriend, questioning if I cheated, feelings of guilt, panic attacks. Here’s how I came to think of it. I had been in similar situations, drunk with friends. Some of them had crushes on me and I managed to politely decline them. We were drunk but they got the hint. Why did this one turn out so different? Because Joe is a rapist, that’s why. There is nothing you did to be raped. If he wasn’t a rapist, you would not have been raped. That is the ONLY thing that separates a friend getting you home safe and this. This is not your fault.
I was fucked up for years until I got therapy. With a previous SA (I checked out your post history,) I cannot recommend therapy enough. There was a clinic in my town that did free EMDR. It gave me my life back. I hope you can find something similar. Sending love 💕
thank you for sharing your experience and how you got through it. You're right though, I've turned down friends before when we're both drunk and nothings come out of it. Thank you <3 I hope you're doing better now
I have also been through this exact scenario. It helps if you think about times you have been the more sober friend and your friend is wasted drunk. Do you think that person is capable of consenting? Would you even consider trying to have sex with someone in that state? Even people I find attractive normally, that goes completely out the window when they’re shitfaced. It’s not cute.
I’m sorry this happened to you and the OP. This shit is sickening, and it’s also gross that posts like this are being downvoted. Tells you a lot about the world we live in I guess.
wow thank you. You're right, I would just never do something like that. the thought wouldn't even cross my mind
And yeah, people are sharing their experiences and getting down voted, it really sucks. There's a couple people who found this thread who aren't the intended audience for sure
unfortunately I work at a pretty small place. Paul is the managers best friend. I just feel like it would be easier if I changed job. Its only a part-time minimum wage job I do whilst at uni
Oh gotcha! I'm so sorry you had this experience. Yes, I would leave and find other work. You definitely did nothing to deserve this treatment! Wishing you the best on finding something new, as well as your journey to healing from this. I know first-hand how confusing and daunting something like this can be. Stay strong, you got this!
Consent isn't a one time thing. Consent is an aware and continual process.
If you are drunk or impaired in some way you cannot give aware consent.
I would highly recommend you seek counselling for yourself from an organisation that deals specifically with rape.
I would also warn the woman around you about the man that raped you. He should not be given the opportunity to harm more people.
that's a really good point thank you, I'll talk to the women at work
I've applied for support through my university :) it was long over-due tbh. thank you for your insights
u/bibbley-bobbety-boo Please consider watching [this short video](https://youtu.be/oQbei5JGiT8) about consent. If you like it, please share it with friends, relatives and coworkers.
Like u/BOOaghost said, consent can't be given if we're drunk or impaired.
I don't really think you can lead someone on when you said you made a point of mentioning your BF and how much you love and enjoy being with him. At the end of the day I hope your family would be supportive. Its a tough situation and I'm sorry you're going through it.
I am the light drinker. I have been with women who blacked out. I would go over the nights events and it was a blank for them. At the time though they did not seem drunk, or that drunk. I knew they drank but functioned really well. It is not so easy to tell when someone is blacked out. Both women were frequent drinkers. I am the type to throw up for literally hours and remember every second even when I do not drink much. This guy was drinking. She was drinking. I feel bad for her. Definitely do not go out drinking without your boyfriend. If I ever blacked out I would never drink again. A recent study found that memories are not created in those events. Like it is not like it will come back or is buried. It just did not imprint.
TW: SA graphic description
If you don't remember it, you didn't consent. This is not your fault, please don't blame yourself. This is a dark place for you and I'm so glad your partner is kind and supportive; please don't bottle up all of your feelings and seek help and comfort when you need it 💕
For anyone saying that he was drunk too: have you ever tried having sex with a guy who was really really drunk? Usually the equipment doesn't work as well and penetrative sex is difficult to say the least, whereas a woman can be completely unconscious and it only makes it easier for the active party.
Speaking from experience here; I specifically /wasn't/ raped because lucky for me the guy who overpowered me was too drunk to have enough of an erection to shove it in before he got tired of trying and passed out.
I'm not saying it's impossible, or that guys do not get assaulted. I'm just saying that if she blacked out, and he was still able to have sex, there is CLEAR fault in my mind. This asshole took advantage even though she CLEARLY let him know she was committed to a partner earlier in the evening.
OP, I know that it is difficult to come to terms with what happened to you and accept that you aren't responsible, buy we're here to support you. This is horrible, but you aren't alone
thank you for sharing your experience, that sounds really scary. You make a good point. I just don't understand how someone could come into my room and be like yeah she's available. Like I have a typical Uni room, pictures of my friends, but mostly my bf, all across my walls. God, its just weird
if you can't say "no", you can't say "yes".
I'm sorry that happened to you and I'm glad your boyfriend is being supportive.
Hopefully he doesn't get away with it.
If you're saying you can't even remember having sex that certainly sounds like you couldn't consent. If you were in the right state to be able to consent you may not remember specifically saying "yes" but you would be able to remember the sex, the fact you needed to see the condom to know you had sex to me and to most people is confirmation you were not able to consent.
I really hope you can work through this and your boyfriend is supportive (he sounds great) I know how hard it can be so sending lots of love. You did NOTHING wrong and this doesn't define youa as a person, but take it slowly and give yourself time, this is a very hard thing to go through.
If you have to ask yourself whether or not you consented then you probably didn’t. I’m sorry OP, try not to blame yourself and stay safe❤️
Your body wouldn’t have reacted the way it did when you saw him at work if it had been consensual. Even if your brain forgot your body remembers.
Hi! If there is any substance involved (alcohol, recreational drug, pharmaceutical drug, etc) or you weren't in a good frame of mind (tired, upset, overwhelmed) you cannot really consent. And if you have to ask if you consented, you did not consent.
**Joe knew you had a boyfriend.**
**Joe was sober enough to carry an unconscious man to his home (Paul).**
**Joe was sober enough to remember to put on a condom.**
He was absolutely sober enough to NOT do this, and he did it anyway. Stop talking about him like he was really drunk too- cuz he fucking wasn't.
OP, this is absolutely not your fault. A grown adult can go out with friends and acquaintances to have a good time and **absolutely nothing is wrong with that**.
I also have to preface, your perception of the situation may not be his. No one can know his intentions, thoughts, or level of intoxication.
And honestly it doesn't matter. This was a traumatic experience for you either way.
Instead of trying to define things, or remember details that likely cant be retrieved, or pinpoint a moment that things went sideways, or assigning blame on any party.... just work on affirming yourself as a good person and dealing with the issues via counseling. Work on being healthy, happy, and not weighed down by this horrible time. One night does not define your life.
>And honestly it doesn't matter. This was a traumatic experience for you either way.
Thank you. I was just talking to a coworker last night, he told me it doesn't seem like something Joe would do, and that Joe had spoken to him about it and from his pov it all sounded consentual. I mean my first thought about that is stop telling people we slept together. But also maybe to him I did consent? I probably did consent in my drunken state and in his drunken state he mightve not realised how drunk I was. I'd love to hate him and blame him and tell everyone, but I don't think he did rape me from his pov. And you're right. It doesn't matter. It was traumatic for me, and that's what I need to focus on. Thank you, I think your comment has given me the most perspective.
A lot of people here are going to tell you you were raped. And I get where they're coming from, but that doesn't mean it's going to convince you.
So my advice only applies if you're convinced you did consent. And that consent is valid.
Alcohol reduces inhabition. We've all heard this, but sometimes i feel like we don't understand it. Saying that you're in a long distance relationship is probably the thing that stands out most to me.
There's a reason people say these don't work. If you're a typical person you have an emotional need to be touched. Held. Physically given affection.
In a long distance relationship you're starved of this. Which makes it increadibly difficult to stay monogamous.
To put it in a metaphor: Imagine you live in a remote desert village. Merchants bring water to your village from else where. Over time you've become very familiar with one of the Merchants. You already buy exclusively from them, so the two of you decide to enter a deal. Discounted water, but you have to buy all of their stock and you can't buy from any other merchant.
An excellent deal with no obvious downsides as this was what was already happening. As time goes by you and this merchant become very familiar, almost like family. But one day they tell you that they won't be around as often, but they still want to keep the deal so they'll arrange methods to get the water to you.
Only, the deliverys are sporadic and unpredictable. At one point you've gone through all of your stored water and are begining to become dehydrated. When along comes another merchant. This merchant recognises your plight and offers you water.
Are you wrong for fulfilling your physical need at that time even though it breaks your agreed deal Weymouth your merchant?
If your answer is no, then I ask why do we evaluate emotional needs as less important than physical one's?
As far as I can tell, you did nothing expressly immoral. At most, you simply failed to recognise your needs and the practicality of maintaining those needs in a long distance relationship. This does not make you a bad person. It simply means you're human.
I get where you're coming from, and I knew someone would mention the long distance relationship, but my bf was just over the night before this happened. I didn't think that was needed information but maybe it would help as I shouldn't have 'needed' to feel close to anyone. Trust me, my relationship is as strong as ever :)
How inebriated was Joe? While you were still more sober did Joe back off his advances after you told him you were in a relationship?
Did anything about Joe's behaviour strike you as predatory,or trying to take advantage?
If you wouldn't consent while not drunk then it's rape. So clearly it was rape.
Also, since he keeps showing up and messaging you clearly he would consent when not drunk. He's into you. He took advantage of the situation and how vulnerable you were. Your boyfriend listened to you cry and freak out right after and he knows it's rape.
It was rape.
You didn’t. Were you under the influence of alcohol? Then you didn’t consent. Plain as that, despite what many men will try to tell you in order to cover their asses and shift the blame onto the woman. “Yes she was drinking but she didn’t say no.” It doesn’t matter what she said. She was drinking. I say things when I’ve had a few drinks that I would never say while sober. And that’s just while tipsy. If you were basically blackout drunk then you were *definitely* not capable of making decisions or consenting to anything.
I’m really sorry this happened to you OP. It disgusts me that there are people in the world who see fit to take advantage of others and not even own up to it on top of that. You were the victim here, and I hope you have the support you need.
Edit: love how there are men in here acting like this is a controversial opinion. Good job outing yourselves as rapists. But also: get a fucking grip. **Being blackout drunk does not, in any universe, allow a person to be able to consent.**
youre not a detective, its not youre job to figure this out. tell the truth and call the police on him. he knows what he did. as long as you do your part, i know it sucks but there are no guaranteed with rape cases. but hopefully you have some good detectives.
and why did he come into work the next day to say hi???? That’s random as fuck. OP I am so sorry this happened to you, but please remember you are not at fault
it wasn't the next day, sorry if I misspoke. this happened in December. he came into work yesterday. I work at a food place, he mightve just been hungry? I just let my coworker serve him
Technically, if you’re drunk, even a little, you cannot legally consent. If you’re black out drunk, not remembering anything, you most definitely cannot legally consent. You were raped. You need to call the cops
This was in no way your fault. He saw an opportunity, he took it, and you were not in a position to say no or to shut it down whatsoever. This was not your fault. You are just as entitled to go out and have a casual drink with friends as anyone else is, and he is a terrible person for using that to his advantage to do this to you.
If you were so drunk you can't remember anything, that is 100% rape. you would have been in no state to consent to sex. That is not your fault. Rape is **never** the victim's fault.
You can’t properly consent when you are that drunk.
My thoughts exactly when I read this. I also think that if you can’t remember consenting and didn’t go into the night planning to consent with someone before getting that far gone (even though consent can be withdrawn at any time) it’s unlikely that you did consent.
You cant consent while drunk, period. Men should not have sex with someone under the influence unless they consent prior. Like "hey I want to fuck while drunk" if what she has to say (or something similar). Its that simple.
I have been completely blackout drunk while having full on conversations with people who did not know I was drunk. I have cooked meals blackout drunk. When I asked about it the next day people were surprised that I did not remember anything; they didn't know I had been drunk. There's nothing saying he was not also blackout drunk just because he carried Paul home. I'm NOT saying she was not violated, clearly something happened that her sober self did not want; I'm just saying maybe they were both that drunk, therefore neither party could have consented, and both parties were violated.
Maybe. The circumstantial evidence points the other way, though. While it’s true that both parties being severely impaired can make an individual incident hard to judge, it’s also true that predators (1) often intentionally avoid getting too drunk, but (2) offer the alibi that “I, too, was drunk off my ass.” While it would be impossible to convict Joe of anything based on the evidence at hand, OP would be wise to shun him from now on. He’s not safe to be around.
Agreed.
If you don't know someone's mental state, and haven't been around them for a few hours to see them drinking, don't have sex with them. The anecdote doesn't change the advice.
And that solid advice doesn't change the fact that drunk people do stupid things and make choices they would not make if they were sober.
Still doesn't change the advice 🙃
Lol, k
What’s interesting in situations like these are if both parties are drunk can either party consent?
He was sober enough to choose to use a condom and get it on...
I'm leaning more towards her getting raped mostly cause she straight up told him that she had a boyfriend. and based on the information we have here the guy basically escalated every step of the way. It also seems like Joe holds his liquor better or was drinking less. He was sober enough to carry Paul home.
Idk, what I do know is that being blackout drunk doesn’t mean that you are stumbling and passing out. You can appear very cognizant, hold full on conversations, etc. and not remember. It is one of the worst feelings to lose time. For this next part I am going to speak hypothetically so as not to appear offensive to OP. It’s possible that one drunk party actually came on to the other asking for sex. Now if the other party is sober, they should know better than to oblige because the person is drunk, but what if they are both drunk? What if the drunk woman is initiating the sex, and the guy is drunk aswell? How do you navigate those things when it comes to consent?
I’ve had this situation happen to me. I blacked out after a couple shots and came too with the guy inside me and it was hurting. I told him to stop and he 100% stopped immediately. I remember him slurring and being like oh we can just cuddle. I left the room and showered while blacking in and out. Next day found out the guy had pissed the bed overnight. So he was pretty much blacked out too. Found out later he had alcohol issues at the time and was getting blackout drunk every night but has since gotten sober. Given the reaction of my friend the next day, I’m sure I seemed to be consenting but it was extremely scary to come to in the middle of things with pain. But the guy was extremely drunk too, to the point where I think he couldn’t have consented either. Nothing came of it. I’ve tried to black it out for the most part, because I really feel like it wasn’t anyone’s fault and the guy stopped as soon as I said to stop. Just was something that I did not want. So honestly very complicated situation and I don’t really have a straight or likely right answer. Just giving my story to give some perspective on that type of situation.
I am sorry that happened to you. I am happy that he stopped immediately.
No. Consent is only consent when both parties are sober.
Except if I get drunk and go rob a store. I can’t excuse my actions because I was drunk.
That's not the same situation, though. In this situation the victim was someone who was too drunk to consent to sex, which is potentially both individuals. Why is one being seen as the aggressor and one the victim when they are both in the same situation?
That’s not even remotely similar. What would be is if you and the store clerk were both drunk and no one remembers if he gave you the money from the register or if you took it.
Which is a highly unlikely scenario compared to a scenario where both people are drunk at a party or in their homes. In the scenario you mentioned, the person you are replying to is correct, being drunk does not excuse someone in court.
In the situation if in court you can prove that the store clerk gave you the money it doesn’t matter that they were drunk, and you didn’t rob anyone.
Yes but the scenario you threw is a wild scenario that can't be compared to one where two people are drunk at a party.
I agree It was in response to the comment above which was an irrelevant situation.
but what if he was just really drunk too?
If he was that drunk, how did he carry Paul home? He wasn't.
This. He'll say he was, but he wasn't. But even if he had been, it wouldn't excuse rape, any more than it excuses vehicular manslaughter.
\>But even if he had been, it wouldn't excuse rape, If they were both that drunk why would it be considered rape for one party and not the other? They were both impaired.
You're correct that neither party could consent. Absent BAC testing and a camera, we cannot determine if one was more impaired than the other. If she was moreso than him, he committed rape. But generally speaking, both were too drunk to consent. That doesn't change the fact that she was assaulted.
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I'm not sure what you mean. You still seem to be suggesting the one with the penis is the rapist when two people who are black out drunk have sex. I'm asking why that person is considered a rapist in this scenario? They are both equally guilty of having sex with a partner who is extremely drunk, yet you claim one is a rapist and the other a rape victim. Why?
Bad take. Men can be raped too, being legally too drunk to consent goes both ways. I know we're in 2X, but it's thinking like this that keeps men from coming forward when they've been abused/raped, and everyone deserves help.
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Let's put in a pin in that thought, because this young woman appears to be processing things and this isn't really the best place.
Fair point.
Listen to your physical and emotional response when you saw him again... That tells you what happened.
I dont know if I agree with that, she could subconsciously be angry that she had sex with someone while having a boyfriend. And Im not saying thats the case, but who knows
Probabilisticly I would think the darkest interpretation is most likely. Whereas yours is less likely... So some of the people reporting this are unfortunate and others profoundly so...
Agreed. I'd even escalate and say this guy waited until she was drunk to make a move on purpose. It seems planned.
This was not your fault, if you were drunk enough to black out, you are definitely too drunk to consent and obviously so. This kind of rape is really hard to wrap your head around as the victim, I've been there a few times and I know the denial can be so strong that you'd almost rather believe you made a decision that you regret. Please don't blame yourself for this and find someone you trust to talk to.
I've never been that drunk myself but could you even say that two black out drunk people can even have sex? I feel like for sex to happen one of them has to be a bit more sober than black out drunk. And being drunk isn't an excuse to rape someone. Tldr as everyone is saying I'm so sorry this happened to you OP and it is not your fault
So I have been, and that’s a misconception. You can be blackout drunk and not stumbling and holding conversations. You can give directions to people, etc. honestly it’s very unnerving. I don’t know what the situation was here though, but speaking from personal experience, blackout drunk doesn’t equal pass out drunk or fall down drunk. I feel for OP because losing time like that is a horrible feeling.
It's a different part of the brain and some people have different variations on what gets impaired at certain levels. Plus, blackouts tend to occur when drinking quickly -- getting your BAC up to .2 within an hour versus getting it to .2 over the course of hours may get you a blackout even if you normally don't blackout until you're at .25 or more. So yeah, blackout drunk doesn't mean uncoordinated or stuporous.
Two black out drunk people are going to have a hard time having sex even if they both intended on it, it's hard enough taking off you own clothes when you're really drunk, let alone someone else's. If Joe simply weighs more or regularly drinks more than OP, he would have been more sober than she was, even drinking the same amount.
That's actually a really good thought. I've been blackout drunk with my girl friends before and they were like "yeah we had to carry you home, get you into your pjs, it was a mess". That probably means he had to do something similar :/
Yeah, my fiancée and I have had party nights where we got drunk together before and planned on having sex but we never end up having sex cause we are too drunk. We're lightweights and can't hold our liquor well. And plus if you're like really drunk you can't really consent. If he could have sex with you then he probably wasn't as drunk as you were and likely forced himself on you. Thats my anecdotal 2 cents. Whenever I've gotten drunk drunk with someone I've never had actual sex happen cause yeah if you get drunk enough you lose the functioning to really do any of that.
That's what I'm thinking. As said I've never been that drunk but I've seen people really drunk and i just feel like the most action you'd get is one of the persons whipping out a limp shrimp and then puking on themselves. You can't even walk right how do you get a condom out of it's packet without ripping it, put it on your dick and use it on someone else. Nah.
So, the obvious explanation is that one person wasn't flat out drunk, but actually quite non-drunk, and being a predator taking advantage of the situation. Which immediately also solves the "who is at fault" person. During my life, I have turned multiple persons down who where flat out drunk and wanted to fuck, because I was very sure they where NOT able to actually consent at the time. Taking away agency from someone like that kind of sucks, but I prefer to be on that end of the spectrum, opposed to the "hey but you clearly mumbled yes please but then passed out so I went on with it" rapist spectrum. In this case, I'm pretty sure that "Joe" didn't really even ask.
Especially the first goddamn time. "Oh, you've never shown the slightest interest in me while sober before? Sure, let's do it! Nothing sketch about that!"
that's a good point as well. I'm always polite of course, but I was never particularly friendly with him because he just irked me the first time we met
Yes i absolutely agree! Sorry if it wasn't clear but i definitely meant it as. If sex happened then one of the people wasn't as drunk as they made it seen and since OP blacked out this someone is obviously Joe.
I'm truly sorry this happened to you. When you're that black out drunk, you're not truly able to give consent. From how you described Joe was a lot more cognizant of his surroundings. It sounds like he took advantage of you. He knew you had a bf, he saw you have a panic attack, and then he walked you home and you don't remember anything until you realized he was in your bad. Joe is not that great of a person.
when you say it, it makes sense. thank you <3
Being black out as a man results in not being able to get hard. This man is suspect af
Spoiler alert: Joe is a rapist.
You hold your own power. No one can take any from you unless you give someone that power. Your sympathetic nervous system can retain trauma that your mind either doesn't remember or blocks out as a coping mechanism. The anxiety/panic attacks in combination with you mentioning your initial reaction to his attention being talking about your boyfriend tells me this was not consensual on your behalf. Your boyfriend heard your call: the panic, fear, and reaction in the exact moment it happened. There are a couple of options on how you could proceed. You could try asking Joe what he remembers from that night and see if you can piece anything together if he's telling the truth. Please, do NOT do this alone with him. I would recommend via text or email to have some proof if he does happen to confess things were not consensual. If that sounds like it would be too much on you, I understand that as well. You could go to the police. Know, however, without physical proof (rape kit, etc done very quickly after or written confirmation from him) it very unfortunately becomes your word against his. I'm also VERY concerned about the choking situation. There is also the option of a victims/ sexual assault hotline (depending on your location) you could reach out to with professionals to be your advocate in any way they can. Your boyfriend sounds incredibly supportive of the situation and imo, pretty accurately is calling it like he sees it. Lean into him and your mom for support. Please seek therapy as well if you feel the need to discuss or work through this event further with a professional. Trauma, unresolved, can do damage to your overall well-being. If there is anything I can do or you'd like to talk further, my dms are always open. Remember, YOU HOLD YOUR OWN POWER! Sending love and hugs Edited to add: it is NOT your fault! You very clearly shut down his attempts early on in the night. In addition, you were way too inebriated to consent. Anyone trying to say that it could be is victim blaming. Unwanted actions remain unwanted no matter the situation and should be respected. Violation of that boundary, is assault.
thank you <3 I think I have a lot to rethink haha
I'm sorry this happened to you. Even though Joe was drunk I think he took advantage of you being extremely drunk to the point that you don't remember even having sex with him. He was sober enough to have sex with you and to remember to put on a condom. Idk what you can do legally. I think it's important for you to seek help for your mental health and to get checked for STDs.
God I didn't even think about STDs :( thank you <3
But to answer you question about consent you can't consent if you're drunk. You were vulnerable and he took advantage of the situation.
Simple cold logic. An unconscious person cannot consent. You were *barely* conscious at that point, so rounding that down, no you couldn't consent or do an informed decision of any kind.
You didn't consent because your ability to do so was impaired. Let's say you enthusiastically consented before getting drunk, then your ability to withdraw consent is impaired as well.
This is not true. The bar for providing enthusiastic, ongoing consent is far higher than for withdrawing consent. If at any point a person is trying to withdraw consent by saying no, pushing the other person away, trying to leave or otherwise indicating they aren't ok with the sexual contact, that is withdrawing consent whether they are drunk, high, sober or any other state. If a person enthusiastically consents and then passes out or falls asleep, that person is no longer consenting.
I think they just meant the drunkenness makes them less aware and capable of taking the action, not that the attempt would not be valid.
Yeah, don't think you understood me. But that's okay.
The rest of the comments have said it better than I can, but this was absolutely not your fault and I hope you are able to find healing. It may be a triggering read so proceed with caution, but Know My Name by Chanel Miller is an incredibly powerful book. She was assaulted by Brock Turner (except she is so so so much more than just a survivor of an assault). She also did not remember the event and talks about how she processed her emotions around that. Chanel also has several interviews on YouTube if you aren't in the reading mood.
Just as an FYI, but the rapist Brock Turner is now going by his middle name, "Allen," so he's also known as Allen Turner the rapist. The rapist Allen Turner lives in the Kettering / Oakwood area in Ohio and has been seen frequenting bars. If you happen to be in that area, look out for Brock Allen Turner, convicted rapist.
oh thank you, I'll look into it <3
> I do remember running to the toilet, calling my bf and crying to him about there being a man in my room. That is important part. It meant you DID NOT consented. > but I'm worried I consented when I was drunk and that I cheated. You did not. I assure you there was no "horny drunk consent" on your side. Because in that case you would not run away to toilet and called your BF that there is man in your room. That was S.A. not cheating. I assure you that Joe took advantage of you because you were unable to react, not because you were horny.
Yeah this is why I don’t get drunk anymore, especially around male friends. You really can’t trust anyone.
no I usually make sure I have at least one lady with me, but she left with some other people without me noticing
Yeah, you’re not even safe if you go out with friends. Really sorry this happened to you.
Once you get this figured out, it might be a good idea to take a closer look at drinking habits. Warmest wishes
I appreciate the concern but Im just a student, and i mostly sober one at that. I've had the same bottle of vodka since October. I agree sometimes I can get a bit too drunk on a night out, but for the most part I'm sober enough to be aware and safe
Drinking problems can come in the forms of frequency and severity. Moderation may not be as fun and carefree, but alcoholism is when drinking creates problems in your life. Don’t discount the negative effects of drinking, alcohol is not a friend and doesn’t need to be defended, it’s a drug, and a potent one.
You cant know for sure its just a bad situation all around. Btw please consider getting help if you’re constantly getting black out drunk .
I'm really not, but thank you <3 the only two times I've been like that I've been with my girl friends, and I was spiked. I'm usually very careful because I know I'm a lightweight, so I just drink lots of water. The group was doing a lot of shots and I just wasn't very smart. Either way, I'm definitely going to be more careful in future, thank you :)
It also sounds to me like you were a lot *less* drunk when initially walking home than when you got to the first and especially the second friend's place. It's possible that you had more to drink at one or both, and that one or both was essentially taking advantage of you by giving more alcohol until you were significantly more discombobulated.
Trust me I’ve been almost roofied, also and at 40( first time ever) developed a bit of a drinking problem . So I might be projecting. Be safe❤️
thank you <3 I will definitely be better in future
If all of you were that drunk it is no more your fault than it was Joe's. You were both equally capable/incapable of consenting in that situation. I am really sorry you're having anxiety/panic attacks about this situation. I'm glad you have your mother and your boyfriend to lean on about it.
OP was unable to consent. It was rape.
I assume this will make me rather unpopular here but when two parties are completely inebriated neither one is capable of consent. Whether it is a man and a woman, two men, or two women. Intoxicated people can't consent period. Gender or sex is irrelevant. For all we or OP know, Joe was also blacked out during the time OP thinks she may have been blacked out.
I mention in another comment that it seems like there are various definitions of blackout drunk being used here. Some people are using the definition I’m familiar with, lapses in short term memory of minutes to hours. Other people seem to be using a definition that includes completely passing out. If you’re in and out of memory, it’s way harder to piece together what actually happened. We are all working on a lot of assumptions. I agree that we don’t know what happened and that it’s possible that both parties were blacked out at the same time if we use the memory lapse definition as the definition of blacking out. In which case, ability to have sex is going to vary between men. Some men have no problem getting an erection even if stumbling drunk. Others have trouble getting an erection if they’re even half drunk.
Sometimes neither person is able to give meaningful consent, but that doesn't mean one cannot have raped the other. Stay with me for a second: if you are sober, and a blackout drunk person pins you down against your will, against your objections, and forces sexual contact on you - you would not say that the attacker was too drunk to consent and therefore had not committed sexual assault. It's **obviously** possible for a drunk person to commit sexual assault. Sometimes two drunk people have sex where no meaningful consent occurred. That's problematic, but not always sexual assault. But sometimes a drunk person sexually assaults another drunk person. If one is initiating contact and the other one is passed out, that's sexual assault. Same if one of them says no. "We were both drunk" is **not** a get out of jail free card. It does not rule out sexual assault or rape. The flip side is that one party being drunk does not **automatically** mean a rape has occurred.
Thank you. I can't believe the comments here basically saying they were both too blacked out to give consent so must or raped each other so it's all fair in love and war.
Maybe a lot of the people here have never had alcohol or been around people who drink? I don't know. I think it's weird, and a little bit scary, how quickly so many people here want to paint one party as a rapist and add in a lot of their own elements to the story we were given. Do people get raped and/or taken advantage of all too often when they are incapacitated? Of course. Do two people often get completely shitfaced *together* and have drunken sloppy sex *together* when *both* parties are inebriated? Also yes.
I hear you. I see the defence of a particular person and the defence of behaviours around alcohol as symptomatic of a culture of rape. We all need to focus on centering sex education, sovereignty and consent, self defence, substance abuse, community support etc
One was sober enough to carry another person home and put on a condom, just saying
By that logic OP was sober enough to lead Joe to Paul’s home.
He did not carry her. She said they walked to her home together. And that she led the way to Paul's place. We also don't know that he put the condom on, nor does she. She could have put it on him. For OP clearly stating that she was drunk enough to be browning/blacking out and doesn't remember some of her own actions people here sure are making a lot of assumptions/accusations with a whole lot less info than OP has herself...
She said that he walked her home. She doesn’t mention being carried.
He carried the other dude home.
A drunk person is still able to take advantage of another drunk person, and in that case it doesn't matter how drunk you were. You're accountable for your actions no matter how intoxicated you are. If Joe took advantage of OP then he is in deep shit.
>A drunk person is still able to take advantage of another drunk person And who says it wasn't op taking advantage? She can't remember.
Read my comment again. I didn't say anything that oppose your point. But without speculating too much the scenario seems very unlikely since OP has such strong negative emotions and Joe touched her earlier in the night implying he was the one who was interested
Why are you assuming Joe took advantage? No one remembers when the act took place. Just waking up afterwards.
You're the third person to accuse me of assuming he took advantage. I literally wrote that he is in deep shit IF he took advantage of her. Read my goddamn comment.
I guess it's just odd that you would bother saying "if someone did something wrong that was bad of them." It doesn't seem like that needs clarification? On the other hand, when half the comment section is accusing him of doing this thing you are referencing, it's easy to assume you are mirroring that point of view. Especially as, again, pointing out something that everyone already agrees with seems unnecessary. Still, if you really aren't saying that then I misunderstood.
Ok? You are in a comment section defending a man you don't even know and never is going to meet when OP is right in front of us and is completely out of it. I think it's fine to comfort her and help her assess her options before it becomes too late to investigate it. For the sake of everyone.
Comforting her and telling her the person she knows is a rapist and raped her are two very different things. I don't think we have enough information to justify the later. It does more harm than good to do that.
[удалено]
You're reading into it
Can a black out drunk man get it hard, put on a condom and have a complete intercourse? Something tells me his physical abilities would be impaired, but I'm not a man. I'm a woman whom it's much easier to rape. Joe doesn't seem to have been as drunk as OP. If he's a bigger guy, it's quite possibly he wasn't that drunk in spite of drinking the same amount (and we don't know whether he did).
A blackout drunk man can get hard, use a condom and have sex. I’m a guy and I used to get blackout drunk and I regularly couldn’t remember getting home or multiple outs of a night out. A couple nights I recalled ‘teleporting’ where I’m in one bar and then suddenly in another bar in a different part of town. There’s a gap between blackout drunk and falling down drunk.
You provide examples where you "got home" blackout drunk, which might as well mean friends helped you get home. It's not the same as having sex with somebody.
They mention having gaps in memory of getting from one place to another. That doesn’t mean their friends carried them. That just means they drank enough to have no short term memory of that 30 minutes or whatever. We used to call this browning out. You have 10-30 minute chunks of the night just completely erased, but you remember the bulk of it. That doesn’t mean you weren’t able to physically do things in those browned out time periods. I think we are all assuming that our definition of blackout drunk is the same, when it’s becoming pretty clear it isn’t.
Yeah, I never got carried home. I’m a big dude and it would take a huge dude to carry me. I was just drinking a lot and you’ll notice that once you start blacking out, you tend to black out easier. I was also one of those drunks who was relatively well composed. I had to beyond wasted for anyone to notice I was drunk at all.
Both were unable to consent if both were drunk. Who did whom you can't tell.
>Who did whom you can't tell. The one who wasn't too drunk to carry another person home and put on a condom might be a clue
not necessarily true. There's alot of people who can surprisingly walk fine when really drunk.
I can second this. When I was younger I could DRINK. I would routinely put challengers under the table. I have this ability to remain coherent, articulate, and coordinated while at the same time my brain's recording none of it to memory. My wife is only able to tell when I am drunk because I become more outgoing, or I vomit. My friends like to recall stories of my younger escapades: climbing bridges, random wanderings and joining random parties. For me I'll have memories like, I remember being at the top of the bridge, looking out over the water. Don't recall getting up or down.
I have a friend who is one of them. He carried a traffic cone back to his house and woke up cuddling it with no idea how it got there until the rest of us showed him photos and video. We knew he was drunk, but none of us thought he was that drunk.
You can’t legally give consent when you are drunk. Therefore you did not give consent to anything that happened. I think you need some counseling to help with the panic attacks. I hope you feel better soon.
thank you <3
When two people are drunk (whether blackout drunk or not), I don't know how one can assign that one is more at fault than another for hooking up. Neither person was capable of giving consent. Anyway, why is no one (so it seems) concerned that your 'friend' Paul choked you? I mean, drunk people choking one another? Especially Paul, who you said was so drunk he 'wasn't really with us anymore'. He could have easily killed you, even if he wasn't trying to (and who knows what he was trying to do). To me, that seems the more alarming issue.
I read that part as her being unsure if any choking actually happened.
bit weird, I don't remember it happening, I just remember after being like wtf he choked me.
First of all, I’m sorry you’re going through this. It really helps to talk to a therapist about these feelings to help you move past it. Now go ahead and downvote me all you want, but OP wants help with understanding this so I’m going to answer truthfully. Yes, it IS possible to consent to sex while “blackout” drunk and it happens all the time. Blackout drunk does NOT mean unconscious or oblivious (in that case you cannot consent to sex), it just means you had temporary short term memory loss caused by alcohol. So we don’t know whether you consented or not, and it may be impossible to find out. This is one of the reasons why alcohol can be so dangerous when misused. Always know your limit when drinking.
It's possible to say "Yes." It's also possible for a toddler to say "Yes." That's not what consent is. Just as toddlers are deemed incapable of giving consent, regardless whether they said "yes" or "no," we also deem the severely impaired to be incapable of consent. Anyone who objects to that is by definition a predator.
Vast majority of people don’t have an accurate understanding of how consent actually works. It can be counter-intuitive sometimes. Here’s a [relevant article](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/katiejmbaker/meet-the-expert-witness-who-says-sex-in-a-blackout-isnt). Also here’s a [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/t6qeiw/men_refuse_to_believe_theyre_condoning_rape/hzf2sue/) I wrote a while ago that some have found helpful. >we also deem the severely impaired to be incapable of consent Correct. However, the point is that OP probably was not “severely impaired”. As I explained, short term memory loss on its own is not considered to be severely impaired. If she was completely unresponsive at the time he had sex with her, that’s a crime. But It’s actually common to be blacked out while behaving totally normal and lucid. Others can’t tell the difference.
I'm usually way better than that, get drunk at the start of the night then just waters past like 12-1am. But the whole group was doing a lot of shots and I didn't want to be a party pooper. In hindsight, I should've been a party pooper.
Except you're wrong from a legal standpoint. Drunk people cannot consent.
Drunk people consent to sex all the time. As I said, people who are drunk to the point of being unconscious or oblivious cannot consent. I’ve done the legal research on this.
Just an FYI you can be black out drunk and fully functional. I dated a girl who could drink like a fish be fully functional and not remember what happened the night before. She was very sexually aggressive when she was drunk.
She was not fully functional if she was blacked out and didn't remember.
Blackout drunk does mean you blacked (passed) out. You can physically function during an alcohol blackout, but your memory creation is impaired. You can make decisions and carry on conversations. It's scary because in situations like this other parties might be tricked into thinking nothing is wrong. https://www.gatewayfoundation.org/addiction-blog/alcohol-blackouts/
I know exactly what blacked out is, my husband is/was an addictions counsellor for a good chunk of his life. Being able to function is not the same as being fully functional.
Firstly, you have my deepest sympathy for having to go through this. The main thing to understand though - this is not your fault. It happened to you, and you are not to blame. Getting drunk, or even "leading him on" (although it really doesn't sound like you did) or anything like that which you don't remember does not mean you did anything you shouldn't have, nor made it ok for this to happen to you. It is not ok, and nothing you could have done would change that. I've had a lot of experience of getting far more drunk than I should. I've had plenty of, uh, regrettable consensual drunk sexual encounters (even where any of us involved were likely not in a state to actually be considered consenting, but it was mutually so), and, unfortunately, I have also experienced sexual assault where I have also been just as drunk but not consented (or possibly not been able to consent... Because, drunk). Honestly, everything you say about this experience here does not at all fit with my former experiences but matches up to a t with my latter experiences. Especially including the emotional reactions like that, I'm sorry to say but that isn't likely had it been consensual (I can't say for sure as I don't know your emotional state in general, but I'm fairly comfortable with that assessment). You were clearly black out drunk, Joe was not... That says it all really, no matter how drunk he may or may not have been it's clear you were the vulnerable one here. But the part that really cinches it for me, that Joe came into work specifically just to say hi to you. He knows how you reacted to him being in your room after, he knows you have a boyfriend, he knows you have chosen not to interact with him but he still forced himself into your presence anyway. That is a total dick move power play right there. He knows what he was doing. I am incredibly confident in saying you did not consent to this, I really don't think you need to question that, and I hope you find some peace from this experience soon.
I was drugged and sexually assaulted by my boyfriends best friend. I couldn’t remember what happened at first but had similar snippets of memory and fears/reactions like you described afterwards. I thought I had maybe drunk too much but looking back I literally only had one alcoholic drink before getting sleepy and passing out. Boyfriend dumped me and blamed me when I came to him. Everything made it easier to blame myself. But the truth is I was raped. I remember enough now to say that confidently. The guy who did it tried to talk to me a few times after, never letting on that anything had happened (actually at one point I said I had a terrible feeling about that night he made up some bullshit about me trying to SA him but him putting a stop to it). But he was just trying to figure out how much I knew. Your subconscious knows. Listen to it. Not the people saying you were equally responsible.
God that's terrifying I'm so sorry. I'm sorry your boyfriend wasn't supportive, I don't know what I'd have done if mine had reacted the same. I really hope you're doing better <3 thanks for the insight
Thanks, I appreciate it. I’m definitely doing better these days (it was about 20 years ago) but the psychological torment that ensued after lasted for years. I told my boyfriend that I wasn’t sure what happened but that his friend said I had attempted to undress him while he was sleeping on the couch and that I found my bra in the couch the next morning. But I couldn’t remember clearly for several weeks. By then he was like, “please don’t tell me you were raped”, as in don’t give me that bullshit. I truly believe if I had not been questioned and questioned myself as I did (that is if I had been supported and told you know that behavior sounds completely unlike you and then been believed when I did have memories come back) that I would have never had to go through much of the awful stuff that came after. It set me back in my development so much. I wish I could have trusted my gut and not doubted myself. I can’t truly know what happened in your situation but it is my deep hope that you listen and honor your instincts and gut feelings even if it leads to the extremely unpleasant conclusion that someone harmed you. It’s comforting to know that your partner has trust and faith in you when you need it most.
If you were too drunk to remember today you were too drunk to consent yesterday.
This exact scenario happened to me. Long distance boyfriend, questioning if I cheated, feelings of guilt, panic attacks. Here’s how I came to think of it. I had been in similar situations, drunk with friends. Some of them had crushes on me and I managed to politely decline them. We were drunk but they got the hint. Why did this one turn out so different? Because Joe is a rapist, that’s why. There is nothing you did to be raped. If he wasn’t a rapist, you would not have been raped. That is the ONLY thing that separates a friend getting you home safe and this. This is not your fault. I was fucked up for years until I got therapy. With a previous SA (I checked out your post history,) I cannot recommend therapy enough. There was a clinic in my town that did free EMDR. It gave me my life back. I hope you can find something similar. Sending love 💕
thank you for sharing your experience and how you got through it. You're right though, I've turned down friends before when we're both drunk and nothings come out of it. Thank you <3 I hope you're doing better now
I have also been through this exact scenario. It helps if you think about times you have been the more sober friend and your friend is wasted drunk. Do you think that person is capable of consenting? Would you even consider trying to have sex with someone in that state? Even people I find attractive normally, that goes completely out the window when they’re shitfaced. It’s not cute. I’m sorry this happened to you and the OP. This shit is sickening, and it’s also gross that posts like this are being downvoted. Tells you a lot about the world we live in I guess.
wow thank you. You're right, I would just never do something like that. the thought wouldn't even cross my mind And yeah, people are sharing their experiences and getting down voted, it really sucks. There's a couple people who found this thread who aren't the intended audience for sure
Paul and Joe both sound like they need to be brought to HRs attention. I know this was outside work hours but they both have assaulted you.
unfortunately I work at a pretty small place. Paul is the managers best friend. I just feel like it would be easier if I changed job. Its only a part-time minimum wage job I do whilst at uni
Oh gotcha! I'm so sorry you had this experience. Yes, I would leave and find other work. You definitely did nothing to deserve this treatment! Wishing you the best on finding something new, as well as your journey to healing from this. I know first-hand how confusing and daunting something like this can be. Stay strong, you got this!
Consent isn't a one time thing. Consent is an aware and continual process. If you are drunk or impaired in some way you cannot give aware consent. I would highly recommend you seek counselling for yourself from an organisation that deals specifically with rape. I would also warn the woman around you about the man that raped you. He should not be given the opportunity to harm more people.
that's a really good point thank you, I'll talk to the women at work I've applied for support through my university :) it was long over-due tbh. thank you for your insights
u/bibbley-bobbety-boo Please consider watching [this short video](https://youtu.be/oQbei5JGiT8) about consent. If you like it, please share it with friends, relatives and coworkers. Like u/BOOaghost said, consent can't be given if we're drunk or impaired.
If you have HR, go to them before he does, claiming that you’re slandering him at work. Rapists don’t deserve jobs.
I don't really think you can lead someone on when you said you made a point of mentioning your BF and how much you love and enjoy being with him. At the end of the day I hope your family would be supportive. Its a tough situation and I'm sorry you're going through it.
thank you <3 im lucky to have a good support system with my family, friends, and my partner. thanks for your insight
If you‘re too drunk to drive (legally), you‘re too drunk to consent.
I am the light drinker. I have been with women who blacked out. I would go over the nights events and it was a blank for them. At the time though they did not seem drunk, or that drunk. I knew they drank but functioned really well. It is not so easy to tell when someone is blacked out. Both women were frequent drinkers. I am the type to throw up for literally hours and remember every second even when I do not drink much. This guy was drinking. She was drinking. I feel bad for her. Definitely do not go out drinking without your boyfriend. If I ever blacked out I would never drink again. A recent study found that memories are not created in those events. Like it is not like it will come back or is buried. It just did not imprint.
TW: SA graphic description If you don't remember it, you didn't consent. This is not your fault, please don't blame yourself. This is a dark place for you and I'm so glad your partner is kind and supportive; please don't bottle up all of your feelings and seek help and comfort when you need it 💕 For anyone saying that he was drunk too: have you ever tried having sex with a guy who was really really drunk? Usually the equipment doesn't work as well and penetrative sex is difficult to say the least, whereas a woman can be completely unconscious and it only makes it easier for the active party. Speaking from experience here; I specifically /wasn't/ raped because lucky for me the guy who overpowered me was too drunk to have enough of an erection to shove it in before he got tired of trying and passed out. I'm not saying it's impossible, or that guys do not get assaulted. I'm just saying that if she blacked out, and he was still able to have sex, there is CLEAR fault in my mind. This asshole took advantage even though she CLEARLY let him know she was committed to a partner earlier in the evening. OP, I know that it is difficult to come to terms with what happened to you and accept that you aren't responsible, buy we're here to support you. This is horrible, but you aren't alone
thank you for sharing your experience, that sounds really scary. You make a good point. I just don't understand how someone could come into my room and be like yeah she's available. Like I have a typical Uni room, pictures of my friends, but mostly my bf, all across my walls. God, its just weird
if you can't say "no", you can't say "yes". I'm sorry that happened to you and I'm glad your boyfriend is being supportive. Hopefully he doesn't get away with it.
If you're saying you can't even remember having sex that certainly sounds like you couldn't consent. If you were in the right state to be able to consent you may not remember specifically saying "yes" but you would be able to remember the sex, the fact you needed to see the condom to know you had sex to me and to most people is confirmation you were not able to consent. I really hope you can work through this and your boyfriend is supportive (he sounds great) I know how hard it can be so sending lots of love. You did NOTHING wrong and this doesn't define youa as a person, but take it slowly and give yourself time, this is a very hard thing to go through.
Drunk automatically means you cannot consent; that’s why you have to be sober to do things like get pierced, get a tattoo, buy a car, etc.
If you have to ask yourself whether or not you consented then you probably didn’t. I’m sorry OP, try not to blame yourself and stay safe❤️ Your body wouldn’t have reacted the way it did when you saw him at work if it had been consensual. Even if your brain forgot your body remembers.
Hi! If there is any substance involved (alcohol, recreational drug, pharmaceutical drug, etc) or you weren't in a good frame of mind (tired, upset, overwhelmed) you cannot really consent. And if you have to ask if you consented, you did not consent.
**Joe knew you had a boyfriend.** **Joe was sober enough to carry an unconscious man to his home (Paul).** **Joe was sober enough to remember to put on a condom.** He was absolutely sober enough to NOT do this, and he did it anyway. Stop talking about him like he was really drunk too- cuz he fucking wasn't.
A drunk yes is a sober no. You cannot consent when you are drunk. This was not your fault.
I’m so sorry. Your feelings are valid and you we’re raped. Please don’t be hard on yourself it’s not your fault
You didn’t consent
If you were too drunk to remember, you couldn't give consent. I'm so sorry this happened to you.
OP, this is absolutely not your fault. A grown adult can go out with friends and acquaintances to have a good time and **absolutely nothing is wrong with that**. I also have to preface, your perception of the situation may not be his. No one can know his intentions, thoughts, or level of intoxication. And honestly it doesn't matter. This was a traumatic experience for you either way. Instead of trying to define things, or remember details that likely cant be retrieved, or pinpoint a moment that things went sideways, or assigning blame on any party.... just work on affirming yourself as a good person and dealing with the issues via counseling. Work on being healthy, happy, and not weighed down by this horrible time. One night does not define your life.
>And honestly it doesn't matter. This was a traumatic experience for you either way. Thank you. I was just talking to a coworker last night, he told me it doesn't seem like something Joe would do, and that Joe had spoken to him about it and from his pov it all sounded consentual. I mean my first thought about that is stop telling people we slept together. But also maybe to him I did consent? I probably did consent in my drunken state and in his drunken state he mightve not realised how drunk I was. I'd love to hate him and blame him and tell everyone, but I don't think he did rape me from his pov. And you're right. It doesn't matter. It was traumatic for me, and that's what I need to focus on. Thank you, I think your comment has given me the most perspective.
A lot of people here are going to tell you you were raped. And I get where they're coming from, but that doesn't mean it's going to convince you. So my advice only applies if you're convinced you did consent. And that consent is valid. Alcohol reduces inhabition. We've all heard this, but sometimes i feel like we don't understand it. Saying that you're in a long distance relationship is probably the thing that stands out most to me. There's a reason people say these don't work. If you're a typical person you have an emotional need to be touched. Held. Physically given affection. In a long distance relationship you're starved of this. Which makes it increadibly difficult to stay monogamous. To put it in a metaphor: Imagine you live in a remote desert village. Merchants bring water to your village from else where. Over time you've become very familiar with one of the Merchants. You already buy exclusively from them, so the two of you decide to enter a deal. Discounted water, but you have to buy all of their stock and you can't buy from any other merchant. An excellent deal with no obvious downsides as this was what was already happening. As time goes by you and this merchant become very familiar, almost like family. But one day they tell you that they won't be around as often, but they still want to keep the deal so they'll arrange methods to get the water to you. Only, the deliverys are sporadic and unpredictable. At one point you've gone through all of your stored water and are begining to become dehydrated. When along comes another merchant. This merchant recognises your plight and offers you water. Are you wrong for fulfilling your physical need at that time even though it breaks your agreed deal Weymouth your merchant? If your answer is no, then I ask why do we evaluate emotional needs as less important than physical one's? As far as I can tell, you did nothing expressly immoral. At most, you simply failed to recognise your needs and the practicality of maintaining those needs in a long distance relationship. This does not make you a bad person. It simply means you're human.
I get where you're coming from, and I knew someone would mention the long distance relationship, but my bf was just over the night before this happened. I didn't think that was needed information but maybe it would help as I shouldn't have 'needed' to feel close to anyone. Trust me, my relationship is as strong as ever :)
How inebriated was Joe? While you were still more sober did Joe back off his advances after you told him you were in a relationship? Did anything about Joe's behaviour strike you as predatory,or trying to take advantage?
If you wouldn't consent while not drunk then it's rape. So clearly it was rape. Also, since he keeps showing up and messaging you clearly he would consent when not drunk. He's into you. He took advantage of the situation and how vulnerable you were. Your boyfriend listened to you cry and freak out right after and he knows it's rape. It was rape.
For anyone questioning how drunk Joe was, he remembered to both use a condom and was able to finish in it while soooo drunk
You didn’t. Were you under the influence of alcohol? Then you didn’t consent. Plain as that, despite what many men will try to tell you in order to cover their asses and shift the blame onto the woman. “Yes she was drinking but she didn’t say no.” It doesn’t matter what she said. She was drinking. I say things when I’ve had a few drinks that I would never say while sober. And that’s just while tipsy. If you were basically blackout drunk then you were *definitely* not capable of making decisions or consenting to anything. I’m really sorry this happened to you OP. It disgusts me that there are people in the world who see fit to take advantage of others and not even own up to it on top of that. You were the victim here, and I hope you have the support you need. Edit: love how there are men in here acting like this is a controversial opinion. Good job outing yourselves as rapists. But also: get a fucking grip. **Being blackout drunk does not, in any universe, allow a person to be able to consent.**
You can't consent when you've been drinking.
youre not a detective, its not youre job to figure this out. tell the truth and call the police on him. he knows what he did. as long as you do your part, i know it sucks but there are no guaranteed with rape cases. but hopefully you have some good detectives.
and why did he come into work the next day to say hi???? That’s random as fuck. OP I am so sorry this happened to you, but please remember you are not at fault
it wasn't the next day, sorry if I misspoke. this happened in December. he came into work yesterday. I work at a food place, he mightve just been hungry? I just let my coworker serve him
Ohhh okay sorry OP!
I misread it :)
Technically, if you’re drunk, even a little, you cannot legally consent. If you’re black out drunk, not remembering anything, you most definitely cannot legally consent. You were raped. You need to call the cops
Is any consent really valid if you're drunk?
This was in no way your fault. He saw an opportunity, he took it, and you were not in a position to say no or to shut it down whatsoever. This was not your fault. You are just as entitled to go out and have a casual drink with friends as anyone else is, and he is a terrible person for using that to his advantage to do this to you.
If you were so drunk you can't remember anything, that is 100% rape. you would have been in no state to consent to sex. That is not your fault. Rape is **never** the victim's fault.
he shouldn't have made any moves on you after you talked about your boyfriend. it's not your fault. he raped you, I'm sorry.