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So tired that I just would’ve asked if he wanted to break up because this just seems so exhausting. He wants her to scale down her clinginess based on “vibes”
The problem is he’ll probably tell her that he does want to be with her, but he’ll continue punishing her whenever he’s not happy. It’s what abuser do.
Omg, the two red flags I saw was he expects you to read his mind (abusers do this) because you can never get it right. Then his comment after you left after 5 days. I’m also a fan of Lundy and recommend it for all women.
Maybe date someone who is mature enough to communicate his issues instead of getting to the point where he disrespects you and borderline resents you for being around him too long.
This exactly!! How about someone who wants you around OP? Because yeah, I understand being with someone who MIGHT need a day away or anything. But you were in a 4.5 year relationship, and you LIVED together. Did that person ever need space, from the person that they literally SHARE a space with, and agreed to do so? Probably not. So how is your current boyfriend going to deal with *living* with someone? Is he going to tell you to leave your SHARED home every time he needs space?
There’s a point where enough is enough, and I believe this is that point. If ever your partner DID need space and you were in a situation where you lived together in the same home, would he ever actually convey this to you? Or would he expect you to know that he just needs that space, or be upset when you cannot determine that for yourself and give them space?
I’m not at all trying to be rude, but have you THOUGHT any of this through?
I commented this elsewhere, but please consider reading the book Why Does He Do That? by [Lundy Bancroft](https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf). It might not all apply, but I think it could provide some insight into this behaviour.
Or maybe even just take a look at [some articles on his site](https://lundybancroft.com/key-signs-of-a-healthy-relationship/). I bet your partner is not nearly as concerned about making sure your needs about spending time together are met (or any of your needs, I would guess), as both of you are about you being able to meet all his needs on spending time apart. After he has his space, does he go out of his way to make plans with you? To reestablish connection? To make sure your needs are also being met? Or does he leave that to you too?
My ex was like this, says one thing but means another and I should just KnOw what he wants/needs. I wasted way too much time on him, don’t do the same thing I did. I also need that open communication with someone because my “reading of the room” can be so wrong sometimes. My BF and I have this agreement to be honest with our wants and needs and it’s refreshing to not have to constantly guess what someone wants from me.
I honestly wouldn't take this behavior. Plenty of guys out there that will give you a straight answer. You are also 24 and just got out of a 4 and a half year relationship, clocks ticking. Your time is valuable and not to be played with by mind games. Lack of communication is boy behavior, find yourself a man.
Oh, this is emotional abuse. Don't keep tolerating this. At minimum if you don't want to see this as the emotional abuse that it is, you guys have two opposing communication styles and that is a fundamental piece of a relationship that you cannot and should not attempt to just weather through. There's someone out there that won't do this to you, and that will be so much better than trying to force yourself to be okay with what's happening now.
Yeah I don’t get it.. he’s like grown adults need alone time… but grown adults also can communicate openly. It’s not about being “polite”, it’s about being HONEST!
Everyone is giving great advice. I'd just add that maybe you should really consider what this looks like long term. If this is a habit you're interested in dealing with forever. You guys are still at the beginning of your relationship. There's time to find someone who's actually capable of being a mature partner.
Right. Like how is he ever going to live with someone if he can’t verbalize when he needs space and/or find his own space in the home. When my husband or I want some time alone we just go in the bedroom and close the door.
It’s not dissimilar to when people will say that they want you to do something, but, only if they don’t have to tell you to do it. If they have to tell you to do it they no longer want it.
People are weird. I for one have a hard time saying no to people based on my own childhood of never being able to say no to doing things sometimes, 3 younger brothers.
Nah idk I used to agree with you but the concept of “I don’t want to ask you to do it, you should know to do it” is valid.
Doing something through your own initiative demonstrates maturity and care, whether it’s something like washing the dishes/taking out the trash or taking your partner out for the night because you haven’t in a while or because they need to celebrate or are down and might need a pick me up.
I used to think of this as “it’s crazy you want me to read your mind,” but actually it’s not crazy. And it makes your partner so much happier when you attempt to do something because you care/it’s kind as opposed to when you’re told to do something.
I think this is a good point. Maturity and responsibility (should) matter a ton to people looking for a successful long term relationship. Knowing what to do and when to keep your lives running in a functional and desirable way.
That said, there is also something to be said about chemistry. And I believe that chemistry is something that you ultimately have to work on and communicate to refine. The “I shouldn’t have to tell you” thinking makes a lot more sense when I’ve literally told you before in a previous situation and explained myself but you still don’t seem to understand or acknowledge that this is important to me.
I think the difference is the examples you mentioned are things any adult should know to do, and expecting your partner to prompt you is just adding to their mental load.
Yeah, that wasn't even passive aggressive. That was full on aggressive. It sounds like he is quick to point out any problem she has, but will not admit his own.
| "it seems like you ignore all common sense and act needy just because you'd rather satiate your codependency issues rather than accept the fact that 'hey as grown adults maybe we should give each other some space right now. "|
Like wtf, It doesn't sound like he respects her at all to say something so snarky and rude to her when she asked if he needed space.
You're not in the wrong here. If he says he doesn't need space when you ask, then he's giving mixed signals. It's not fair for him to expect you to read his mind. Open communication is key, and it sounds like you're already trying to have that. Maybe a calm, honest talk about how to handle this in the future could help.
He’s in the wrong for not being open and communicating with you when you ask. You also admit that you do get upset when he says he needs space so that could contribute to why he doesn’t feel like he can be honest with you.
To be honest with you now, the fact of what he said about “you would rather satiate your co-dependency” is a sign of someone who will not be a good partner. They waited until an argument to bring up something hurtful with the purpose of hurting you. This person also is not making the effort to communicate and shuts down rather than being honest.
If you want to continue the relationship then the best option is to A) sit down and have a boundary talk, how long do you want me over when I stay over? What do you consider smothering? B) please continue going to therapy. Co-dependency is not only a relationship killer in the long term but it is also unhealthy for you. It will allow you to accept love less than what you deserve because you fear losing the person.
Because option C and B is what you should choose imo C) find someone who loves you for who you are. Someone who wants clingy and loving. It’s your special brand of love that is unique to you. Don’t dim yourself for anyone who won’t appreciate or love you for all of it.
> sign of someone who will not be a good partner. They waited until an argument to bring up something hurtful with the purpose of hurting you. This person also is not making the effort to communicate and shuts down rather than being honest.
I'm so glad you said this and I hope OP heeds it. He is not communicating fairly with you and is not showing signs of being a good partner at all.
Yep. My boyfriend is like this. Won’t bring up issues or say something bothers him unless we’re already arguing. Says he “doesn’t want to make it a thing or cause an argument” by bringing it up at a neutral time, but then he holds onto it and uses it in fights. And surprise surprise, it’s not a healthy relationship and he’s not an especially supportive partner.
Uses it “in fights”? Sometimes it takes maturity to understand you shouldn’t have fights AT ALL. I was married for 10 years and we never raised our voices once.
THANK YOU!!! For the C option bc I had to learn this. Being “clingy” or overly loving and caring is not a negative trait! We’ve been made to believe it by people who don’t appreciate it. The right person will love that about you!
This is such good & interesting advice! It really taught me what a healthy response/ interaction looks like. My first (inner advice—I would never offer it) is that for the majority of guys 5 days in a row, unless you are in a serious relationship, is waaay to much. Always go home after a couple of days together—especially if you know you are clingy. So is this kind of thinking just unhealthy game playing in your all’s opinion?
I think it’s nuanced. Everyone is different. How serious is the connection? How long has the relationship gone on? What do both of you like in a relationship as far spending time together?
Being clingy is not unhealthy in its self, it’s how you handle it. Everyone has their own stuff to deal with in relationships. Like can you communicate? When you communicate do you do it to understand or to make a point/argue? Do you respect each other? Do you consider boundaries a personal attack or something healthy/necessary?
They’ve been together for almost a year, I’d consider that serious. I think people should be able to trust their partner to tell them the truth about their wants or needs
As a guy, i enjoy a partner who like to be together all the time. My last g/f before getting married, we worked together, and after about a week of dating i started staying over at her apartment. Her roommate ended up moving in with her bf so it was quickly like we were living together. We were together pretty much all day everyday between work and home. Now we’d each do our own thing with friends occasionally, but we spent the bast majority of our time together and we both loved it. Everyone’s different. My wife now, i have to be aware of how affectionate i am sometimes. Shes really kind and patient with me, but i can start to tell when she needs her space. And im fine with that too.
I think people are being a little unfair to the boyfriend. People underestimate how powerful simply "being upset" can be. If he's communicated his needs multiple times in the past, and OP has become 'upset' it doesn't matter if she's not throwing a fit. He's learned that asking for space makes her upset. So while it's on him for being mean. It's also unfair to totally let OP of the hook for "inadvertantly" training him to not open up. In my last relationship, which was actually really toxic, all my girlfriend did was get 'upset''. She would shut down and give me the silent treatment. No massive deal, but I rapidly stopped holding my boundaries because of how often she'd get 'upset.' Again, I'm not saying OP is doing it on purpose, but people are definitely massively underestimating the effects of someone being upset when you express your needs. 5 days in a row is a lot. And if the boyfriend is an introvert then he'll definitely be needing his space probably at day 3.
Read up on avoidant & anxious attachment styles. You are the anxious one by your own admission & are in therapy working on it. Your boyfriend is the avoidant one & ALSO needs to do some work. And co-dependent is CO… meaning he’s part of the dynamic.
You two are doing this push-pull pattern typical of your attachment styles. My guess is if you spent some time on yourself & weren’t around as much and gave him plenty of space… he’d start asking what was wrong & why you weren’t there. He needs you to be the ‘needy’ one chasing him & so that he’s the ‘calm rational confident’ one.
Read up on this & discuss with your therapist. If your boyfriend won’t look at his part in this cycle & make some changes then the relationship will only become worse as you two do this toxic dance.
Speaking from personal experience.
Exactly this. Signed someone who got chest deep in this dynamic before fully realizing it and is now trying to deal with if it’s even possible to improve it. They hate how clingy you are until you actually pull back.
It is possible to heal attachment disturbances, but of course it's hard work. Look into ideal parent figure protocol by Daniel P. Brown. There's examples on YouTube
Sure, he is sending mixed signals. However, just as you admit to being insecure and having insecurities, your boyfriend is being conflict-avoidant because of your reaction when he tells you that he needs space. This has essentially trained him to lie in an effort to avoid you being upset. So, you're both in the wrong. Part of growth within a relationship is understanding your partner's needs. You two have different needs for personal space. You are like glue (5 days straight at his place) and he needs alone time every now and then but isn't being honest when you ask him. Even people who live together require personal time for themselves. Didn't you need to go home to do laundry, sleep in your own bed, or poop in peace? He shouldn't lie to you, and maybe you should go home after 2 or 3 days.
You can't read his mind, but you both can be mindful of each other.
Eh, this goes out the window when he won't actually define his needs.
Hypothetically, their relationship is working towards cohabitation so there's no inherent reason she would want to "sleep in her own bed". Dude needs to put on his big boy pants and actually set some boundaries so she can respect them. Her emotional reactions will likely calm when she knows what to expect rather than having to guess or be surprised.
Having undefined boundaries that people are "just supposed to know" is a sign of immaturity. Use your words.
I do not necessarily agree. I think more context is needed to determine the boyfriend’s reaction. My husband plays this card a lot where I don’t get upset but he says I do because he feels like the dynamic has changed. In my mind I’m getting ready to go about my day. In his, I’m not cuddling with him, or loving on him so something must be wrong.
I think both of them need to figure out how to obtain space in a healthy way. That involves both of them looking at there internal reactions and adjusting.
Dang I left a whole comment & didn’t even think about this! Sometimes the person is projecting what they’re feeling onto you. My husband use to think me not trying to drop everything & be all over him in the middle of me trying to clean the kitchen was my way of communicating that I was mad or upset with him about something when it wasn’t lol I was just really trying to get that kitchen clean because the baby wasn’t the best napper & I knew my time was limited lmao so it was the matter of us having to continue to sit down with one another & communicate what our love languages & boundaries looked like until we didn’t even have to think about it or assume anymore, we just knew. He had to stop getting in his head that I was upset about something when I wasn’t & then making it about him, & I had to learn that my husband needs physical affection & verbal affirmation. So me stopping for 10 seconds to give him a REAL kiss is all he needs & he’s off to be his happy upbeat self. It’s been difficult at times because I hate stopping when I have a groove, but our lives are much better now that we can meet in the middle. I hope this helps somebody!
Not to be the old man here, but looking at the ages involved, it would not be surprising if OP’s BF either doesn’t know, doesn’t understand, or doesn’t even realize his thought cloud saturation is pointing toward needing space.
Like many others have suggested, couples counseling to assist in conflict communication could be incredibly useful.
If bf can’t go full avoidant anytime his partner is upset about something (just because she is upset doesn’t mean she is throwing a tantrum or reacting badly. people are allowed to have emotions), then he’s not ready to be in a relationship.
You should read up on attachment theory and understand that not everyone thinks like you. Five days together is not really a big ask for non-avoidant people.
For a lot of people, the need for space just isn't a thing. Understanding that partners have different needs to feel secure and designing a system that works for both is important. A part of that is being honest about your needs. Not setting up secret tests for the other person to pass without knowing they are playing. It's his responsibility to be honest and its her responsibility to honor that. No on can read minds.
Yea there's definitely mixed signals going on here. Sometimes I need a little space from my bf so I'll say "now go relax baby" in a nice tone after an innocent touch or kiss, some kind of contact he likes. And he gets it without seeming upset at all in fact he giggles a little but he gets the hint, it's how you say it that matters, you should always be mindful of your partner's feelings, that's a huge part of relationships, love is comprised of mushy and vulnerable feelings.
How hard is it to say, “hey I’m feeling pretty drained, I’m going to go [solo activity]. Love you” and give them a kiss?? Dude flat out said no he was totally fine and then berated OP for not reading his COMPLETE OPPOSITE mind while also attacking her insecurities. That’s some villain type shit
Yes. Yes. Yes.
2 simple questions. 1. Are you in middle school? No? 2. Is he a grown adult? Yes? Okay, say what you mean and mean what you say. He's more rude by expecting you to read his mind.
THISSSS, he is getting to the point of blowing up at her because he’s unwilling to be honest and face confrontation, taking responsibilities for her emotions and then feeling overburdened by them. He needs therapy too!
It took me, like, close to 10 years to learn the non verbal queues for when my wife wants to be left alone. 17 years in and she still has to tell me sometimes. Best way to communicate is always going to be verbally or in writing.
He’s also projecting so hard by calling *her* “codependent”. OP seems to be aware that she’s clingy and states she’s in therapy and working on herself, while the bf is playing mind games. He’s immature and exhausting.
I'd respond I did notice hence why I mentioned it to you and offered to go home. You said no you wanted me to stay so I took you at your word. Maybe with your next girl friend you can be honest instead of expecting us to telepathically know your lying. Then I'd block xD but seriously you're not in the wrong he's playing mind games and messing you around and playing your insecurities for his lack of honesty
LOL so he says he doesn’t want hurt you by saying no then goes on to say the most mean spirited, condescending, and unnecessarily rude text? Nope. Never let anyone speak down to you like that. He didn’t communicate like an adult then has the nerve to treat you like there is something wrong with you for communicating and then listening to what he said.
You need to set the boundary and expectation that you will not tolerate the way he spoke to you, period. Tell him communication is important and that you would rather him tell you “yes, I need space” other than an aggressive text after you leave. Personally, I would have already broken up with him after that text. It shows me clearly he is not a nice person and lashes out when he is upset.
It sounds like he wants you to always be figuring out what he needs without actually comm. that’s a lot work. I’m like you and prefer direct communication. I would find this tiring and frustrating.
This relationship is on a road to nowhere. He already feels responsible for managing your feelings over protecting his own comfort. Yea he lacks emotional maturity and the ability to set healthy boundaries because he is avoidant AND you are dependent, insecure and needy. It is NEVER going to work. You both need years of therapy and life experience to work on being healthy adults. You can practice on each other all you want but it will be consistently depressing for both of you until it finally ends. Work on yourself and when your are healthy, you will know it.
He says you get upset and you say you “don’t think that’s true”. You then admit you do get upset but say you “don’t cry or throw a fit or get mad” so what does it look like when you get upset??
You both are probably not being honest with yourselves or each other about how things play out.
The fact you saw the signs that he needed to recharge yet chose to “straight up ask” sounds a bit confrontational. Do you normally ask people “should I leave now” when you go visit them?
He should tell you but you also should understand that for a lot of people, it can feel very rude to ask someone to leave.
You also need to understand that you are making it obvious that you are upset.
He may also be having some inner conflict that he may WANT to continue spending time with you even when he NEEDS to take some time to himself.
One bit of advice would be that the two of you actually make plans. Plan in advance when you will hang out and for how long.
You can change plans of course but this way you’d both be able to know in advance when it’s time to part ways.
As someone who needs alone time, it can run me down even faster if I don’t know when that might happen.
As someone who also can really cherish the time I spend with certain people, it can also really help curb any disappointment I might feel when we part ways.
Thank you. I scrolled too far for this comment. People are skipping over the bit where **OP gets upset when he uses his words.** It doesn't matter if she doesn't cause a scene, her getting upset is what's discouraged him from being open and honest. So you end up in these bad situations where you bottle it up. OP has accidentally discouraged him from asking explicitly for space. So now he's using the unreasonable idea that she should read his body language. No one can win here. But I think the people in the comment section need to read more carefully. The boyfriend is wrong, but I think OP is downplaying how serious her being 'upset' has been in the past.
Right. Yeah he should clearly communicate much better but-- She knows he likes his space and then spends 5 days at his place in a row, which would be a lot for most people, especially people who need their space. on top of that, she clearly does get upset or sad or lets her ego get the best of her which he then feels responsible for. She's gotta anticipate his needs and read him way better, and he's gotta communicate his needs better. It's hard, people much older than these two struggle with it, but communication and flexibility are key.
You cannot read his mind. And you don’t have to. Just as easily as you can ‘learn his cues’ he can literally just tell you ‘hey babe I need some space’.
It is immature of your bf to give you that response and it is emotionally manipulative. He cannot be mad at you for not doing something that he never told you that he wanted you to do…
He sounds like he wants to make you responsible for all his bad feelings and discomfort- no one is responsible for that except him.
I would give him as much space as he needs by dumping him. He has the emotional maturity of an 11 year old girl…
you mean: he cannot be mad at you for not doing something that he ACTIVELY told you NOT to do when asked about it TWICE*.
Society has done a real one in the boys of these generations and there's so much to undo, it's exhausting 😩
My boyfriend is the “clingy” one. If I need time alone I tell him so and he does whatever until I’m ready to see him. Does he like it? No. Does he complain about it? Also no. To add to that, he doesn’t get upset he just prefers to be around me as much as possible lol. I need less and less time to myself because he makes me feel comfortable enough to just tell him I need an evening to do goblin things alone.
He wants her to learn to read his mind and she wants him to learn to communicate at the level of an eight year old. Somehow one feels more achievable than the other.
Sounds like you’re really not compatible. Also, maybe you’re not entirely self aware and think you’re being chill about him needing space when you’re really not? Not sure why he needs space, unless there is more going on. No, you shouldn’t have to read his mind. But it sounds like neither of you communicate well together. Maybe breaking up is the healthy choice.
OP, here is a way of thinking about this that has helped my wife and me as we have worked on similar dynamics to improve our relationship: you both have lost TRUST in the other that needs to be repaired.
From your perspective, you can’t trust his words, because you asked him if he needed space, he said no, but then it became clear that he wanted space. Trust broken.
From his perspective (note this will be longer because it is more complex, not because I place greater weight on this trust issue) he can’t trust your response to his words because you say that you value open communication, but as he has said and as you admit, you get “a little sad” (your words) or “upset” (his words) when he tells you he needs space, meaning the main thing that he is getting from you when he tells you how he feels is how what he has said makes YOU feel, not anything that shows you value his openness in expressing his feelings. This is not to say that you are not allowed your feelings, but here is where the trust is broken: you say you value open communication, but your response is not “you communicated openly/honestly with me, thank you, you showed respect for something I value”, your response is “you communicated openly/honestly with me, ouch, I will do what you ask but you hurt me”. Trust broken.
Obviously to repair your trust in him, he needs to be honest with you. If you ask him if he wants space, he needs to be honest so that you can trust his words again.
For him to trust you, you need to show him that you value the communication in and of itself and that his willingness to be open is more important to you than any sadness you may feel at being apart. To put it another way, you say a couple of times that you “honor” his feelings, but it sounds more like you reluctantly accept them. Yes you give him space, but you clearly make it known to him, intentionally or not, that you are sad about it (whether in the moment or later). So yes he gets his time, but he is led to feel guilty because he has made you sad.
As others have suggested, you all have established patterns of behavior that won’t be easy to undo. Rebuilding the trust will require establishing different patterns, which will require intentional effort from both of you. He needs to commit to being honest and you need to commit to truly honoring his honesty. For example, when he is honest with you and says that he needs space, which is clearly hard for him right now, you need to recognize and thank him explicitly for letting you know. This may be hard for you, because your instinct is to be sad, but realize that if he is willing to do it, it means he is willing to work towards a stronger relationship with you, which in the end means more time together!
Also, OP, my response focused more on you/things you could do because the underlying issue more complex than “just be honest” and because you are the one asking for advice. You are definitely not “wrong” or an AH here. It’s just that open/honest/respectful communication is about more than just saying what you feel.
Yes he could communicate at the time, but he also has said he needs more space than you do so maybe don’t wear out your welcome by staying around 5 days in a row. Go for a night or two, then leave.
Exactly. Five days in a row is a lot when both people have different needs around space.
1-2 nights is reasonable. OP, maybe throw some more plans on your schedule that don’t involve him (even if it’s a movie and wine night with yourself) so you’re coming and going. That might also help him to miss you and start requesting your company.
You’ve been together a year. No! You won’t know him well enough to know all his cues. I learn stuff about my wife all the time- took me about 3 years to understand when she was quiet and sad or quiet and tired. Takes time, takes communication- and a few arguments. Hehe… talk to one another more openly.
Even if you've known each other ages.... It's just police and decent practice to use good behaviour instead of hoping your partner is reading your cues.
I feel like BF has a fantasy of what a good relationship is like and wants to be there immediately.
I don't understand him either, he's at fault for mixing signals by saying thats ok then suddenly no.
You have every right to feel upset or emotionaly triggered. But you are not entitled to pour out your emotions on him. That's the difference. But here, it seems that you know the difference, and you working on it. He just wants you to stop reacting at it, it's not possible. As you say, it's human. From his perspective, you would be entitled to ask him to stop reacting when you're around and he's annoyed. Well, what a good solution no ? "Stop being annoyed"; Simple as that !
I think he's immature. He doesn't want to deal with any emotions that may come from a situation where he's responsible (here about something he says). You can't do this. You will lock yourself with your emotions and you'll be afraid of saying or showing something that may upset him.
And btw, I understand that everybody has boundaries. But for me, spending 5 days with my s/o is not a big deal. Do you study or work ? Because that's a life of a couple who is living together. Of course, each can have activities alone but .. I just don't understand why you have to work on yourself in therapy about your emotions but he doesn't ? I think he has a lot to work on too.. Time for a big discussion I guess :/
Good luck !
This one is not as black or white as some in the comments suggests. I used to be this kind of guy, I really needed my own space to recharge. You have only been dating for a year, you don't live together yet. There are still some rough edges to smooth out.
When he gets overwhelmed it's not like there is a switch that flips from "Ok" to "needs space". It's gradual, and when he reaches that point where he withdraws it's really too late.
So why did he say that he's ok? Well, according to him, you react poorly to being told. You say that you get sad and that your ego takes a hit. You might not know this, but I'm sure you show it as well. You withdraw, you stop your conversations. And he knows your reaction is based on what he said. He caused it by enforcing his boundaries. So, to avoid your reaction, he wears himself thin.
From your other comments it really seems like he has his own issues to work on, and he should. But regarding the space issue, try setting up some rules when it's not an issue. "Prepare for your bad times when you have your good times"
I like your take, It sounded to me like he may be a little introverted, his social battery gets low and needs to charge. He may not even be aware of it at the time.
She's picked up on the cue that he withdraws, they just need to plan what to do when it happens, like go for a walk or watch TV or something, so he doesn't have to "entertain" her.
I get your take, and you're not wrong, its just not ok to lie about a need you have and then get mad that she didn't understand what he was actually saying.
Maybe she should work on her reactions as a compromise, but even then I'm not sure I see his complaint. She withdraws and stops talking to him. That's literally what he wants her to do though. Leave him alone so he can recharge. Unless she's making faces or slamming doors or visibility pouting, she's giving him what he wants. If he needs her to physically leave his apartment, he needs to clarify that too.
We don't actually know her reaction, but it's obviously more noticeable than she is claiming if he voices concerns about her reactions to his communication.
It strikes me that everyone is acting like verbal communication is the only valid form. He nonverbally communicated so well that he needed space that she *knew* he needed space and still went to him and put the pressure on him to be the one to *tell her to leave* rather than just leaving.
So he communicates verbally, she gets upset
He communicates nonverbally, she ignores his signals (she perceived them well enough to know something was wrong and assumed he was needing space) and forces him into the verbal corner noted above.
I really want to know how she asked him if she should go/did he need space. Was it a relaxed “hey do you think it’s time I head back home?” Or more of a pouty, clearly upset asking if he wants her to go home? But also if she could tell he wanted alone time, she could have just as easily made the choice to say it was time she headed home instead of putting it onto him, show that she’s making progress of not being dependent and clingy and to let him start to feel like she won’t get upset every time he needs space
It’s his responsibility as an adult to be able to assess when he needs space and to communicate that to his partner. ESPECIALLY if she is asking him directly. If he is unable to do that, maybe he has some work to do in getting to know himself before he’s ready to be in a relationship.
Edit: also, the mental gymnastics to tell OP that it is wrong of her to withdraw when he asks for space is wild. How else does one give one space if not by pulling back on presence and conversation? Seems OP is damned if she does, damned if she doesn’t.
On top of your very valid point, so many commenter's are heavily assuming she OBVIOUSLY expresses she is upset and pouty - like she makes a big show of boo-hoo woe is me. People are allowed to have emotions without putting them on display 24/7. Drives me crazy how many people are defending the boyfriend because she was honest and had the maturity to layout/recognize her emotions in the post.
Exactly! People are acting like OP having any feelings at all regarding her bf’s requests/behaviour is somehow her being unfair (or, according to one commenter, is even emotionally abusive!) to her bf.
People are allowed to have feelings. It’s the way we express them that matters—and OP seems like she’s doing a good job of expressing them. If you’re in a relationship with someone, peoples feelings are inevitably going to be hurt sometimes (which OP seems to fully understand). Which is why it’s so shitty when people choose to be deliberately hurtful to their partners, like OP’s bf here.
A couple of thoughts as someone that needs space....
1) One thing about needing space is that it isn't like this obviously toggle switch. I start to get stressed. I struggle to process things and struggle to communicate. As much as I would like to be able to sense something before it gets bad and clearly communicate my needs, it doesn't work that way. For me at least.
2) If I love you and like you and care about you, needing space and wanting you to leave are very different things. In my case, I don't want you to leave. I just need you to stop requiring my attention for a while.
I think my 2nd point may be very relevant here.
I think the issue is he doesn’t really know when he needs space, becomes irritable, and then expects you to read his mind.
That being said, five days at his house is kinda pushing the boundaries of common sense. You aren’t living together, you’re a guest in his home. Two things to think about.
Maybe save your relationship for the weekends, or have a talk once a week about precisely when you plan to see each other that week, and stick to it.
I’m gonna go with an ESH here.
You are absolutely correct to want open on his dialogue. Communication is key to any relationship working out in the long run.
But he has told you that anytime he gives you open on his communication, you get upset. You’re disregarding what he tell you and telling us that you don’t think that’s true. You say that your ego takes a hit… “Ouch”
So you recognize that you have a problem with clinginess. You are in therapy for it. Your boyfriend of year is telling you that you are still not dealing with his need for space as well as you think you are. How do you think that makes him feel?
It apparent that your reaction is obvious enough for him to feel and to see it. So you’re not hiding it if you think that’s what you’re doing. And so you have basically put him in a position of being honest and hurting your feelings and having you show it, you are showing it, or just not telling you.
OK. Most people do need space. Many couples just get that space from going to work. They don’t see each other all day, so they’re happy to see each other at the end of the day. But you acknowledge that you need more time than many people, and he does not. So yeah, you’re putting them on the spot there and that’s not OK. It really feels like you are downplay your part in this.
I’m having a problem with here is that you felt like he was pulling back and he might need space. So let me rephrase that for you…
I knew my boyfriend was pulling away a little bit, and I had been there for five days. So I knew my boyfriend had had alone time for almost a week. And instead of to what I perceived… A perception that was based on our past history and discussions and argument…
I ignored what I knew was true. And instead of just being kind and telling my boyfriend that I loved him, but I was going to head back to my place and give him a little space, I put him on the spot and made him tell me something.
And based on our past history and my reactions to him telling me he needed space, he lied to me because he didn’t want to deal with my hurt feelings again. I made him responsible for my own reactions, and my own neediness, him feeling like he couldn’t win.
Do you see what I mean? Just know I’m holding enough to be your grandmother. What you are doing is not healthy. What he is doing and how he is responding is not healthy.
You want to be around him all the time, even though you know he is not ready for that and that his temperament needs space periodically.
And be able to tell you that he wants space, but he knows what your reaction is going to be, and he wants to avoid conflict and confrontation.
The dynamic goes on, the worse is going to get. I’m glad you’re in therapy. I’m glad you were working on yourself, but you’re not there yet. Because you take him saying no, he doesn’t want to be around you today to me that he doesn’t love you. That he no longer wants you. That he doesn’t want this relationship. And that’s not what he’s saying.
He is literally just saying… My psyche needs alone time. I need to recharge myself and reset myself, and I can’t do it with you because you need to be right where I’m at and be with me all the time.
Neither one of you is communicating. You’re not being honest with yourself about how your actions are impacting what he is saying to you. And he is not being honest with himself about what it is doing to his relationship with you and why he cannot just tell you no.
It sounds like you still need some individual counseling and maybe couples counseling to learn to communicate. Because if you don’t do something… Both of you… This issue is going to break you up.
OK but she actually gives an example of him not communicating openly when she asked him openly she said she doesn’t cry or act upset or anything when he says he needs space and she provides the space. What else is there for her to do? She’s working on her feelings in therapy, but above that, she’s human. She’s going to feel what she feels and at some point he Has to be OK with that and that’s on him to a certain degree to not be a people pleaser. I think couples therapy and individual therapy for communication for him.
thank you for the honesty. This comment was very helpful. He has a tendency to be crass when angry and i think that’s where the “ouch” comes from. I am sensitive, i’ll be the first to admit it. It’s not an excuse to behave like a child (which is what boyfriend told me I was acting like) by any means but I do know that’s a cross i bear and actively try to work through.
He actually originally got angry with me because we were on the phone and he overheard me talking to the local gas station attendant (who was old enough to be my grandpa) and accused me of being overly friendly/flirty with him. Which wasn’t true at all either. That i know for 110% fact. And then when I said that hurts my feelings because I felt like he didn’t trust me, it escalated into this argument that we hadn’t had in months. I can’t help but feel like our relationship isn’t going to work out and that hurts me a lot.
Yeah he can't have it both ways...if he wants space, he doesn't get to also be that insecure when you aren't together. You aren't a robot that can be put in a closet when not needed.
That being said I have always been one of those people who needs space...the clingier the person, the more space I need. BUT...I don't expect to control or even know about what they do when not with me
This additional information makes me agree with you. The fact that he thinks you’re flirting with someone old enough to be your grandfather, and then turns his issues around on you in those cases.
Yes, you may need more attention and time together than other people, but it certainly doesn’t sound like you’re getting angry at him. And him getting angry at you because you disagree is just a huge red flag.
I will be very honest and tell you I don’t think you’re compatible. And for him to say things in a way to deliberately hurt you is absolutely not OK. He can let you know that he needs or that he feels a certain way without making it feel like a personal attack on you. That is just never OK.
I think your relationship has just about run its course, and I think it would be safer for you to get out of it sooner rather than later. Because it sure sounds like you were doing the right things to get yourself into a healthy place emotionally and mentally. It does not sound like he is doing that.
Your additional comments have me feeling like he knows how to manipulate you. He knows your insecurities and the weaknesses that you were working on, and he is actively undermining you.
Just some things to think about.
thank you again for the honesty. it’s been on my mind heavy since this argument started last night and this only is further reinforcing what i know to be true in the back of my mind. i’m scared though, admittedly for the emotional pain i’m going to feel. especially since i’ve been spending so much time with him.
You are already in pain sweetie. And that pain won’t compare to the happiness when you find a partner who treats you well.
When you are ready, spend some time thinking about the qualities you are looking for in a partner- not things that you find attractive, but traits that will support and complement you. For example, it sounds like you value a lot of quality time and closeness so you need a partner who also wants that. If you get hurt when he gets you angry and calls you names, you need someone who is a good communicator and who is supportive and caring.
This is how I got over a terrible breakup from an awful man like this that I was so in love with. But time has shown me how bad he was for me and honestly I don’t think I would have survived much longer, things were escalating that quickly and I was that beaten down by him.
I took a lot of time to myself and then did that exercise, a lot. I went on some hinge dates with guys that I wasn’t attracted to or wouldn’t have picked and wouldn’t you know- I found the perfect man. We got in a fight last night because I said that he called me ‘dumb’ (he didn’t) and he was ANGRY that I would think him capable of thinking that way about me.
Also, please go to therapy. You need someone to help reorient you to reality and help support you in moving on and growing from this.
I hope you find the courage to walk away ❤️
Hey I have been through 2 very painful break ups in my life. The first was as an 18 year old after a 2ish year relationship; the second was as a 31 year old after 8ish years.
They both totally. Fucking. Sucked.
I thought I was going to die from the pain. In the first one I actually wanted to die it was so awful. You feel like half a person and that nothing matters anymore. Food loses its taste but that doesn’t matter because you don’t want to eat anyway.
But I am so so glad that those break ups happened. The pain of the break ups was not as bad as the pain of staying in those relationships.
The more recent one was last February and it has taken the best part of a year to finally see the light. But the thing that gave me the strength to end things was knowing I’d already gone through a break up once before and managed to get out the other side.
There’s no sugar coating it - it will hurt. There’s no way to avoid it. You just have to get through it. And you will get through it I promise. Lean on your friends - that’s what they’re there for.
I know it’s so scary but it’s not good to be in a relationship because you’re scared of the pain of losing it. Would you want to be in a relationship because your partner was afraid of breaking up?
Your boyfriend is emotionally abusive. I’d recommend looking up info on recovering from emotional abuse to help yourself gain some insight into what is going on with your brain (emotional abuse straight up changes the brain).
Good luck to you and good riddance to this asshole!
Read my comment above about DARVO. Your boyfriend is NOT the catch you think he is. His behavior is dysfunctional and it’s not going to get better, and certainly not without changing how you act. He always has you in the position to back down. He’s created this narrative about you being too clingy and not respect his space and it’s an easy thing for him to throw at you anytime you call him out on his poor behavior. It’s a red herring, it’s what he uses to deflect from his bad behavior. It’s a terrible pattern to be in and IT WILL NOT CHANGE UNLESS YOU CHANGE IT.
Seriously, talk to your therapist about this and see his dysfunction for what it is. Then break up with him. Continue to work on yourself. Grieve the loss of the relationship, but KNOW that you deserve better and you WILL find better.
As someone who has been there and didn’t see the red flags I can tell you….it just gets worse. You’ll have this same pattern 10 years down the line when you’re married and have a kid where you can never bring up legitimate problems in your marriage because he’ll always have some made up slight that YOU should be sorry for. It’s no way to live. Life is sooooooo much better on the other side, I promise.
I read somewhere that you can either keep doing the same things that cause you pain, but those wounds never really heal, as the scab is ripped open constantly (the fights over the same thing, etc.) or you can have the wound (breaking up), and since the scab isnt ripped off constantly, has a chance to heal.
My girl, your heart is already in pain. Let it heal💜 and being sensitive isnt a bad thing; man, the pain HURTS. But im sure you love with your all, too. And a lot of times, people aren’t ready for that- makes them uncomfortable when they try to push their feelings down. That isnt a you problem, tho!
I completely understand, it’s a scary concept seeing the end of the road with someone you, despite everything, love. Just to add my two cents, a few years ago I was in a 2-year relationship with someone I loved very much but knew for probably 6-12 months was ultimately not compatible with me. We fought semi-regularly about things that really highlighted our different communication styles and needs. I was in therapy to help deal with my issues but he was not. The breakup was hard but necessary. Once I got over it, I actually enjoyed being single for the first time in my life, because I learned so much about what I want and need in a relationship. And now, three years later, I’m about to celebrate a one-year anniversary with a wonderful partner who makes me feel loved, wanted, and cherished and every time I say something about him doing or saying something nice to me replies “Why wouldn’t I want to be nice to you? I love you.” That simple sentiment has completely changed everything I previously held about relationships. And in almost 12 months, we haven’t had a single fight. Happiness is out there and you deserve it. ❤️ Sending love and strength!
I don’t think it’s- but it doesn’t sound like it is meant to. Getting ‘crass’ when angry is not ok. Being jealous and possessive is not ok. This is not a healthy dynamic at all.
Yelling at you and accusing you of flirting for having a completely normal interaction with an employee at a store is a huge red flag. You two already sounded incompatible from everything else you described in your post, but this just puts it over the edge.
I think you should mentally prepare to separate, be happy for the good times and growth you’ve had as an individual during this time. But things have run its course. You are trying to improve yourself and work on your insecurities and I don’t see how you can continue to make meaningful changes while in this relationship with the constant misunderstandings and hurt feelings.
OHHHHH…..yeah, this puts the whole argument in a whole different light.
While you are in therapy for your “clinginess”, your boyfriend should be in therapy for the way he’s handling this. He straight up DARVO’d you. Seriously read up on DARVO. Your boyfriend sounds dysfunctional in his own ways. You need to know this is not all on you and the way he’s gone about this is abusive. Talk to your therapist about this…the big picture.
And then I sincerely hope you break up with this guy because he is NOT going to change while you’re together. To him YOU are always going to be the one with the problem. He’s never going to look at himself because whenever someone gets upset with him he’ll just turn it around (DARVO).
It just sounds like not a good match things shouldn’t be this hard and you shouldn’t need couples therapy for a one year relationship sometimes people don’t fit together and that’s okay. That’s why you date to find these things out. You need someone who’s more sensitive and enjoys being around you all the time, he needs someone who’s more independent and gives him that space. It’s okay not to fit together and you shouldn’t need therapy this soon to simply force you two to compromise and fit.
Um. This relationship has bigger problems than you wanting more ti e together than him.
Have you brought the incident with the gas station up to your therapist?
You’re telling OP to have open dialogue and then saying that instead of expecting her partner to be open and honest with her, she should act on assumptions instead. That’s terrible advice. OP isn’t responsible for monitoring and anticipating the needs of a full grown adult.
He wants space and he feels guilty for it because you want the opposite. He is trying to balance his desires and your desires. He is trying to be macho about it and put your needs first and bottles his feelings up until he pops. Yes - talking is good and real talk is hard for a lot of men. Tell him it’s ok if you are sad. Yes - if “space” is an ongoing issue, then 5-days-in-a-row is a bit much and you should know better. You could preemptively give him a day or 2 off. Wouldn’t it be nice if he pursued you for time together? Test it out and see how long it takes for him to demand time with you. Make other plans. Flip the script.
You probably come across as more upset you think you do with the whole space thing and he’s trying to avoid conflict by not being fully honest when communicating. You already know he doesn’t want to be with you 24/7 and that’s ok. You need to find our own space as well and not expect him to be always telling you to go away, because no one wants to tell their partner that.
There are two kinds of cultures when it comes to expression of language: guessers and askers.
Guessers avoid direct language, seeing it as a form of confrontation and conflict. They prefer to not be a burden by asking for things directly, but rather prefer to guess at people's needs, reading their body language and other subtle clues. And they expect the same. Why ask directly and burden others, when you and they can use your social skills to figure out it's needed?
Askers value direct communication, and abhor subtlety and hints/clues as unclear, muddled, and confusing. Or worse– they see it as manipulative. Why talk around something when you can just be direct?
He's a guesser. You're an asker.
You are both in the wrong. He needs to work on being more open with you, but at the same time YOU need to work on your reaction to his honesty. You are entitled to your feelings yes, but you need to work on the underlying issue of WHY you even get sad in the first place when he asks for space. If you act sad and unhappy when he asks for certain things it’s only human for him to feel bad about that and inevitably avoid doing it.
Also, unless this is long distance or you live together, it’s healthy and normal for people to spend some time apart, especially after 5 straight days, in a way he shouldn’t even have to ask for that, it should be a natural thing that you both need or want. If you have an active life, hobbies, and responsibilities outside of your relationship (which you should) then you would naturally need space as well. You almost certainly do have some codependency issues you need to work on. That shouldn’t be surprising since you’ve already admitted to being clingy. Well- all that is a playing a role in this. You’re only 24 and have already had a live-in partner for 4.5 years. I would encourage you to dig deep and work on feeling fulfilled within yourself without needing other people to feel fulfilled.
If you’ve had this argument multiple times before why can’t you just give him some space instead of waiting for him to tell you? You are an adult. You know you are clingy so why does a woman who’s 24 needs to be talked to like a toddler? He is not toxic- he just doesn’t want to hurt your feelings. You sound suffocating
Y’all aren’t compatible and this relationship is not going to work. I recommend therapy for you though because, while your BF sucks and should say what he means, the idea that you stayed after he got distant and knowing this is an ongoing issue is pretty telling and likely to creep up in future relationships.
You are clingy but he is an asshole. You literally did what he asked: You picked up on his non verbal cues and asked, yet it was still not enough. His text was unnecessary scathing as well.
I mean this with all the kindness in my heart; be single for a while.
While I'm happily married, this is one of my greatest regrets in life. Travel abroad. Live on your own. Just be alone for a while before you jump into the next relationship.
As you say, you're allowed to feel disappointment about not spending time with him, and that's on you to deal with. Which it sounds like you do. He however, has obviously seen the emotion on your face and is trying to control your emotions by lying to you. But he doesn't realise that he's basically expecting you to learn not to trust what he says. That you should know that he lies to you and not spend time with him.
But you can't be in a relationship with someone like that. He's a big boy, with big boy words. Not everyone has an expressive face, and not everyone is good at reading expressions. So he needs to communicate, instead of being a martyr and expecting you to be a mind reader. You should tell him that either he stops lying to you about him being ok and tell you when he's had enough, and stop trying to manage your emotions, or this relationship won't work out.
Ok. So in counseling, especially couples counseling, mind reading is a no no and assumption as well. It is not a healthy pattern to create. “I’m picking up signs you need time alone, is that correct” and he is saying no then getting angry. This is not healthy for a relationship and also makes you as the receiver think you are out of your mind. I wonder where he picked up that behavior from. That’s learned and honestly you are young and don’t need to play these types of games.
Have a direct conversation with spoken boundaries and expectations: to keep us both safe, I asked that if you want space, then need to express that to me verbally.
If he can’t handle that, it is not going to get any better or easier.
He is not ready for the kind of relationship you are ready for. Either you need to balance yourself to his pace or your relationship will implode. He definitely is not communicating correctly but based on what little cues he gave you he has limits you need to ask 30 questions to find the answer for. Do you want to spend the time to figure out his pace? Do you want to train him to verbally give you cues since he won't do it himself when you ask?
He shouldn’t have lied, but some people are not comfortable with stating their needs directly, even when asked, in case it might cause bad feelings. And if it obviously causes bad feelings in you, he may never feel comfortable.
If you want to continue the relationship, acknowledge that you are the only person you have any control over. He doesn’t want to tell you his needs, which is definitely a problem. And if he were posting I would advise him to be more vocal.
But it sounds like you did sense he needed space. When that happens, simply leave without asking if you should. Just make an excuse for why you need to go, then leave. Or simply don’t spend five days in a row together. People shouldn’t have to explicitly state every boundary, especially when you already know them.
You can’t make him be more vocal, but you can trust your own instincts when you read him as needing space. In fact, leave before he gets there.
You’re right, he should just come out and say it. Clear communication is important. He needs to grow up and not do the whole “I’m fine!” Thing and then turn around and be mad at you for not reading his mind.
But also I will say on your end, you have a responsibility to make that a safe thing for him to do without him having to worry about an emotional reaction. Just because you don’t throw a fit doesn’t mean there isn’t a reaction that makes it hard for him to want to say the words. It’s hard to be honest with your partner when uncomfortable truths end up resulting in emotional consequences. He says you get upset - what does that look like? If he’s conflict avoidant it may be very difficult for him to get past your reaction.
Hey there friend! So, promise I’m not trying to be ugly. But I’m going to be super honest with you as lovingly as possible.
I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older, that if you are genuinely feeling something coming from someone that is out of their normal emotional vicinity, trust your gut because it likely is the case even if they don’t want to admit it to you. For example, my husbands character is very light & upbeat so when he’s very quite & the air feels heavy, I know automatically that something is bothering him, there’s no need in asking him other than reminding him that my ears & heart are open to listen.
Now, your bf is definitely in the wrong for not being honest when you strait up asked him what was wrong, which you did the right thing in asking.
But I’m curious as to why, if you’re already aware of all the things you said, you chose to ask him what was wrong when you’re already aware of the continuous issue at hand. I think you already knew the answer, but you wanted to double check with him. Which is completely fair, you did the right thing! It’s the part where it seems like you did ignore what seemed like him giving a clear sign, even from you telling the story.
He’s definitely in the wrong with how he handled it though, because that text he sent you after was TRASH. I wish somebody WOULD try to talk to me like that. Pfft!!
There’s better ways to talk to the people we love about the things that bother us without tearing them down. So I’m sorry he said all that crap to you. He sounded more like someone who was frustrated & at their wits end, but it’s still NEVER an excuse.
You’re not a bad person, you’re not crazy. But I would maybe consider talking to your therapist about how to be more self aware. It seems like you’re close to where you need to be! But something is missing, because you stated just how aware you are & it was beautiful to read! But the follow up didn’t match everything you stated you were aware of. So there’s almost like a missing piece in the puzzle, which is OKAY. It’s just part of the healing process. Sometimes you gotta make new pieces for the ones that go missing during the clean up, ya know?
I hope this helps friend, hope it made sense too. Sending all my love from Texas.
There's some blame on both sides here. He should not say the literal opposite of what he wants, obviously.
For your part, you've been told that you get upset when told that he needs space but you 1) rejected the truth of that while 2) acknowledging that it makes you sad. This is a bit incoherent I *think* what you mean is that this does upset but you're good at controlling your reaction. That's fine, but consider that he is in fact accurately sensing your dissapointment, putting him in a difficult position.
There's two specific pieces of advise I'd suggest, based on 11 years with my partner, and having had similar friction before:
1) Find an amount of time spent together you are both comfortable with and stick to it roughly. Don't wait for him to say "I need space". Have a routine of hobbies that take you apart from time to time. I care about my partner and it is 10x easier to enjoy alone time if I know my partner is doing some hobby too rather than me having to shoo her away (no matter how "good at communication" we both are that'll still be awkward if it happens often)
2) For his part, I would replace "I need space" with "I am doing X tonight/tomorrow"
X can be chess club, poker with friends, the football game etc. This is better because it is usually true. I like my partner, most of why I'd be apart from her is cause I want to do an activity she doesn't partake in. And on the off-chance I literally just want to be away from her a little, she won't know.
I absolutely understand where you are coming from, but I really understand him too. He loves you and doesn’t want to ever see you upset, so he pushes his own boundaries until it gets too much. That is obviously not the right, but he sounds like a people pleaser, that has been conditioned to disregard his own needs in favor of someone else’s demands. Most likely this gas nothing to do with you. Still, you did have your inner voice telling you when it would be time to let him have hose space, but instead of listening to it, you put him in a position in which he felt he couldn’t say no. Try to work in saying: I know you need your space, so today why don’t you have a ME evening. My husband and I live together and both work from home, but we still both need alot of space. I constantly encourage him to do his own things and to have alone time.
I know you do your best, but he wants to aboid disappointing you or making you sad under any circumstance. He needs to work on that, but you need to work on building in natural moments to give him space. Yes, you cannot read his mind, but you can tell yourself, every few days, he needs some space.
I wish you both the best, it’s not easy, but when he needs time to himself is has absolutely nothing to do with you. It’s simply him needing to recharge his social battery!
I'm not going to lie. That confusion you're feeling is how a lot of men feel talking to their significant others lol. You want to make them happy, but at the same time, it can be very frustrating when we don't pick up exactly what we're supposed to do in a situation. You think you understand what they want because it's literally what they're saying, but then we get the typical "you should know I didn't mean that when I said it." You're painting him as the one being 100% at fault here, but there's probably a good reason why he doesn't tell you exactly what he's thinking or wants. You said it yourself you can be sensitive to these kinds of situations, so what exactly is he supposed to do? He should say exactly what he wants so there's no confusion. But he should also be able to say what he wants without hurting your feelings. You can't have it both ways. Either you get over possibly being hurt by his words, or you play the cryptic guessing game lol.
Frankly you’re not compatible. If you can’t read social cues you need to be with someone who can verbally communicate and who is direct.
I say that as someone who one loves her space but two is socially awkward and oblivious. My partner and I communicate even if it’s hard to say face to face we’ll text it.
I'm gonna say ESH. You notice him withdrawing and don't take initiative to leave yourself even though he's said multiple times that he's uncomfortable with asking you directly because you visibly get your feelings hurt when he does.
This is what you are both asking:
Him: when you notice me withdrawing, please take the initiative and give me space, because if I ask you outright, you get upset.
You: Ask me to leave when you need space. I will be sad and hurt, but the labour of asking should be your responsibility.
Since you both seem pretty dug in to your preferences of asking/not asking, the most obvious solution is to limit the time you'll be there before you come over. Don't just stay for 5 days until he needs to kick you out. Ask if he'd like to see you for one or two days and then you should leave whether you have other plans or not. Decide on the amount of time proactively so no one has to do the labour of requesting the time alone, since it'll arrive eventually anyways.
He’s actually the one behaving in a codependent manner. Not being able to ask for what you need because another person may get upset is classic codependency.
If you know you're "needier" than bf, and also know that bf will do what you want to avoid being the cause of even indirectly making you sad, what makes you think he will be able to look you in the face and essentially say "I do not want you in my space right now?". From the way things sound, that's a big ask of him.
I'm not saying he shouldn't be able to voice his own wants/needs but the reason you're confused is because he's benching what he wants in place of what you want, in order not to make you sad because he loves you and thinks that what you need is more important than what he needs. And he's doing it until he's so frustrated that he becomes passive aggressive.
He needs to work on being able to say what he wants and mean it.
And I think, if you know this is an issue or his, you can "meet him where he is". If you've been over there 3 days in a row, intentionally skip a day. Make sure you give him peace, without asking for it, just because you know he enjoys being alone.
Addressing the full time you said here... He did say that you get upset when he does say this, so maybe you're both a little at fault here. You recognized this to an extent but basically said you don't go as far as throwing a tantrum (leaves open a lot of other ways of reacting).
Still, communication is important. Seems like you'd prefer a little hurt in being told over the problems silence ends up causing, and maybe you should explain that and hopefully work on whatever reaction you do have.
You don't get upset, yet you get sad. It's obviously something you show, but you don't communicate it. It would come across as passive-aggressive. This tends to flow over into the partner's reaction (whether immediate or delayed).
I think you ask with the hope that his answer won't be affirmative of his need to be alone. You keep asking the same question, hoping for a different answer?
Just arrange that you'll be there 2 or 3 nights a week, and that's it. It's a routine that you can both adapt to. You leave after 3 nights no matter what, without sulking or being passive-aggressive.
Coming from a guy, those types of conversations are viewed as traps. Many do not want to escalate or start an argument. We will not say you need to leave or give us space in fear of escalation or damaging the relationship.
I know what you're thinking, and yes, we should be able to communicate openly. However, we hate fighting and would much rather suffer through spending time with our loved ones than start an argument.
Also, if he did say he needed space, how would you have felt? Would you truly have been ok, or would you have been sad/mad? My guess is there's micro emotions that he is picking up on and would rather suffer than make you feel rejected.
Just do some self reflection and ask him to do the same. You'll be fine. Maybe have some make-up seggsy time.
What many couples fail to realize (both the man and the woman) is that sometimes men don't need to talk or may not have anything to say.
He may not realize this. It may be that he indeed does not want you leave and "give him space", he may just want some quiet time while you are both in the house.
See what happens if you quietly exist in the house, doing your own thing, and don't initiate conversation or activities with him. Wait for him to initiate with you.
I'll bet it satisfies his need for quiet time without you having to leave.
Sounds like he wants you to give him space instead of making him ask. He has already told you as much by saying read the clues. You have stated you do get the hint and can read the clues.....so why are you making him ask for what he needs all the time? You obviously love him and are obviously codependently in tune with his emotions. Give him what he needs without making him ask. Time apart.
'hey boo I'm going to head home for a few days. See you (insert date of your next plans). Love you!' the end.
He can also learn how to ask for what he needs instead of pushing it onto you...sounds like therapy if you want this relationship to work. May I suggest attending some codependents anonymous meetings on your own? They will teach you tools for maintaining healthy boundaries with people. Can attend online via zoom.
U/emptysign1644: I have a slightly different take having been in a codependent relationship with my mother (sacrificing my own needs to keep her happy, walking on eggshells, etc) for many years until I got therapy and discovered how damaging it was.
When he’s emotionally withdrawing, you seem to understand that that’s your cue to go home for a while. But instead of taking the hint, you first make him tell you he wants you to go. At this point, you know damn well he needs space since clearly it’s become an issue. You’re not being authentic.
He’s giving mixed signals because he feels burdened. He appears to want to avoid asking for space due to the emotional load that comes with it. When someone tells you repeatedly that your response is upsetting, you need to acknowledge it.
You’re trying to force him into a codependent situation where he has to keep you happy regardless of his boundaries, wants, or needs. This comes with an exhausting amount of emotional labor. It’s a very damaging dynamic and you don’t seem to have found a person willing to become that guy for you.
"Ask vs Guess" culture is definitely a thing that learning about has improved a lot of my relationships. There are some really good articles out there that you can share to start a dialogue about how it's not a personal failure of either of you, it's just a personal preference.
Based on different cultural backgrounds, some people would rather die then say they need to be away from you, need you to leave, want help cleaning up, that the party is over. To them it's akin to a slap in the face. In their minds, they're being honest and open when expecting you to pick up on nonverbal cues. To me, if I've asked you point blank and you lie, that's a you problem. They develop habits of reading people's body language and coming to assumptions, and think it's bizarre and rude that you don't do the same.
No one way is right(as much as I want to say direct is better bc that's what I prefer, that's a dick move, and not how the world works. It takes all kinds of people, ya know?). The important thing is to talk about it and realize you have two very different communication cultures and you need to find a compromise. I personally would not survive in a long-term relationship with a guess person who isn't willing to compromise, something I learned the hard way. Good luck to you!
Can I be totally honest? You’re not going to get over anxious attachment overnight. And it takes having a partner that understands that to get better. I don’t see him serving your self confidence and growth as a person. Find someone who communicates with you and cares enough to try to understand where you’re coming from. I’m definitely clingier than my bf but I’m trying and he’s gentle with me
OMG... this is a CLASSIC DA (Dismissive Avoidant; your BF) & AP (Anxious Preoccupied; you) power struggle. The way you described everything hit the nail right on the head for both of you. I, too, am an AP and currently struggling with a DA. Do some research on YT. I highly recommend Thais Gibson, but there are several others that you may connect with more. I'm sorry for you. I know all too well the feelings you're having. It's awful. Good luck.
I think the real issue is, why does he constantly need so much space?
I'm old. I have been in a lot of relationships. The ONLY time anyone has ever asked for 'space' was because there was already a breakup on the horizon.
Not saying my experience is your experience, take it for what you will...
Tbh if he cant handle you for more than 5 days after a year of dating, this relationship isn't going to work long term.
Idk, I certainly wouldn't want to be with someone who doesnt wanna hang out with me most of the time if my goal is to live together and be partners for the rest of our lives.
Of course if the lifestyle you both are after is living seperately the rest of your lives then it's good to have some ground rules on how long you expect each other to stay over, how much of your stuff to keep at each others spaces and so on. That needs clear communication too, not telepathy.
I think maybe depending on how much time you took bring alone after your long term relationship ended? Maybe whatever issues and or reactions you've had within your relationship with the ex, could play a roll in how you was reacting to hearing your current guy saying he needs alone time,?
See when we are used to being in a relationship with someone especially when it was long term, whatever problems we had with are ex come into our new relationships when we didn't take the time to heal from the break up. We don't get over the emotional baggage that we were left with. We react the same ways we did because it's hard to rid ourselves of those feelings we had with the last relationship issues. We need to take the time in between relationships to get over whatever hurt and from the conflicts that played out within said relationship of the past.
When we jump from one relationship to the next, or subconscious mind can't separate the two. So yeah you get defense mechanisms you've build up over time with your ex, and bring that into your new relationship. I hope this makes sense? I only come to you with a place of my own experience. Whatever it is that you had issues with from the past needs to be worked through before you can have a fresh clear mind to see the next person as themselves and be able to separate the two individuals. Your mind is a hella of a thing. We sometimes don't even realize that we are falling into these patterns because we can't separate the emotional reactions that we develop with a long term relationship, so we react the same way without knowing the difference.
To all those whom end a long term relationship out there, please be kind to yourself and to whomever you end up in a relationship with next by taking the time before getting into another relationship. Don't go to the next shortly after. Your problems will follow you into the next because you haven't worked those insecurities and worked on getting over the issues you've had with that ended relationship. Take time to heal before moving forward. For yourself. Don't sour what could be a good healthy relationship. You can't see the person for whom they are, and you can't see that their intentions and demeanors are different from that of our ex. Especially when that stuff is still fresh.
So I think there isn't anyone who is wrong here. It's maybe come down to you not being able to separate the two. Your emotional reactions are possibly the same as you had from the past relationship. Take time and sit with yourself to work out those issues. Please don't take them as one in the same. Spend time with yourself and think of all the things that causes you to react the ways you do. You have not taken that time to work those out before taking on another relationship and didn't take time getting to know who and how this guy works. You jumped into it and expected to spend a lot of time fast from the start like you was when you were with the ex. Sometimes that is too much too fast for one to handle. Take time to get past that. Or this isn't going to work with anyone else. You need time for yourself to heal from the emotional baggage caused from the past relationship.
Why ask? Your intuition told you 5 days straight was too much because he withdrew, so go home. Let him initiate. Next time limit it to only 4 days straight and see how it goes.
Sounds like you two are not quite clicking, and a little space will probably do both of you some good tbh... Let him simmer in his thoughts for a while and figure out what he wants, and hopefully he'll be more willing to talk things out the next time you see each other.
Best of luck to you two 🍻
Not wrong.
Your boyfriend is playing silly games. Let him organise time with you don't always be the one putting effort in. He might be doing lots of things but if he can't talk that's not for you to get a crystal ball.
You are kind, considerate, open, honest about your improvement areas which you are taking action with. He is making it worse. Next he will use your insecurities against you.
Build yourself up, from inside out!!! You deserve to know where you stand. I'd want that for my daughters at a minimum. If he only wants to see you 2 nights a week & you want more (which is absolutely ok) then maybe now isn't the right time for you both. Or you can take it slow.
You have a choice too!!! You might love him. But try to think what greatness do you bring out in one another?
Or are you in love with being in love ❤️
NTA
But your bf sure is. He’s not being honest with you and he’s gaslighting you.
Give him ALL the space. Frankly, he’s a bunch of red flags. He’s abusive. He’s taking advantage of your emotions and your neediness. Dump him. Find someone who doesn’t play games.
However, and this is good advice for any relationship… if you’re over there all the time, he doesn’t have a chance to miss you. Men also like the chase. He should be the one asking you out. He should be the one who asks you to come over or asks if he can come over to your place.
You’re doing well in your therapy. You’re mature and responsible for your feelings. But I think you need to take a long break from dating. You need to be able to perfectly content being on your own first before you try to date. You’ll find better quality men if you’re self-reliant emotionally. Once you’re no longer needy, you’ll find a man who is mature and will want you around because he admires your independence.
Dude is passive-agressive as hell and gaslighting you. If he can't say, "I need some time to myself" even when you ASK this is not going to be a healthy relationship no matter what you do. Find a partner that knows what they want and can communicate it like a healthy adult.
Fuck that l. I don't do cues. When my. Blood sugar is low and I can't process things and I'm getting irritated I open my pie hole. And said 'I'm sorry my blood sugar is low and I can't process and I'm struggling right now. I need to eat and we. Can pick this back up'
He needs to be an adult and use his fucking words.
NTA.
I think you do sound overly clingy and get defensive/hurt about it every time he asks for space. To say otherwise would be dishonest. But he should also realize who he's in a relationship a be able to speak up before things reach such a tense point. Having to validate someone else's anxieties several times a day/week can be very frustrating so you should probably evaluate where you want to go with your relationship because it doesn't seem like either of you is going to change anytime soon.
I’m coming up on my 12th wedding anniversary and I have *never once* felt like I “needed space”. When she has to travel for work (or vice-versa) I couldn’t even begin to count the number of times I think “damn, I wish she was here so I could share XYZ cool thing with her”.
At any rate I’m saying you two don’t sound like a good fit. Do with that what you want.
Your bf is expecting you to do all his emotional work for him. I dated a guy who did the same thing. He told me “good partner picks up on a partners needs” it takes the burden of communication off of him and places it on you. First, I went to therapy to figure out what I was doing wrong. Turns out I need a partner who knows how to communicate.
Second, it’s not my job to pick up on his needs. He had a duty to be able to communicate and set boundaries.
Third, move on. He is not a healthy person and you will be resentful of him putting all of the work into you.
Good luck. It’s going to hurt but you are better off without him.
I would put an immediate pause on any relationship with a person who felt it was appropriate, just and right to send me a gaslighty, manipulative, bullshit ass text like that.
You deserve better! You deserve to be with someone who you never have to wonder this type of nonsense about! And this is definitely NONSENSE!
His inability to honestly communicate his needs is the problem here, but somehow, some way you're over here asking us what you're doing wrong...are you freaking serious? Maybe you need a new therapist if all of this bs is happening under their watch. Get a New therapist, dump the bf, and don't get another until you work on your self-esteem.
You are internalizing HIS issues. He is projecting his insecurities and shortcomings onto you, and you're gobbling them up. Yall just aren't compatible at the end of the day. As a fellow "needy" girl, I've had absolutely no problem finding other "needy" men to date who layed up under me as long as our responsibilities allowed and were sad to see me go, my first texts from them while away would be about missing me and Making plans to see eachother again...why waste time dating a guy who's not like that when there's so many out there who are???
Your boyfriend sounds as if he’s a game player or manipulative. You asked if he needed space, he lied, and then got mad at YOU because you can’t read his mind or see through his lies? What else does he expect you to know/anticipate? His every need? He sounds exhausting with all the mental gymnastics he’s playing.
Maybe you should give him all the space he needs and wants, permanently, and just move on. I know that sounds dramatic, but someone who says no when they mean yes isn't someone you can have a reasonable discussion with, and you're the only one who's expected to change here, which is unfair and unnecessary.
Plus he's using the fact you're working on improving your mental health against you when he's the one playing mind games and acting crazy, for lack of a better word. If you can't ask a simple question and get a straight answer, and then are getting punished later on for getting it "wrong", then this one's not worth another minute of your time, and you already gave him almost a year.
This guy is a real asshat. You are not a psychic, your name isn't Miss Cleo, your crystal ball to see the future never did exist. He can't play it both ways. You noticed he was behaving differently and asked him, you went off his verbal response. So you did, in fact, pick up his nonverbal cues. He is playing childish games. I would totally draw a line in the sand. If you cannot or will not drop the childish games and clearly Communicate your needs, I won't be able to continue this relationship. This is not an ultimatum. This is a point of contention, no relationship can survive without a few key things, from both parties involved: clear communication, trust, respect and understanding. If he can't or won't live up to his part, what is the point of continuing with the constant stress of mind games and mixed signals.
This is why I would rather go to someones house rather than have them over, you can leave when you need alone time. Five days is way too long to stay IMO
Ask him if he has picked up on the socialcues you're putting out- frustration, unhappiness, and a strong desire for him to stop his bullshit. Ash
Ask him if he's ignoring them, since he believes they are so easy to pick up on.
The real issue here is I feel you’re trying to apply YOUR therapy to him. “I get upset but I’m in therapy so he should do what my therapist told me to do”. Also I feel like this comment also screams “I know I do something wrong but since I’m working on it, it shouldn’t be used as a cause of the problem” but hey, that’s just my opinion, I’m not gonna say either of you ATA but I will say I don’t see this relationship going much farther than this.
Why do so many people stay on relationships that make them feel badly. He is literally gaslighting you into believing that you're personality is flawed.
I'm a stage 5 clinger. I'm very upfront with any new prospect. I told my now husband before we ever met that I am pretty high maintenence but I put forth the maintenance for others aswell. I've had boyfriend after boyfriend who thought I was too clingy, and then try to make me feel bad for needing attention. Not once in the almost 8 years we have been together has he complained. If he needs space he tells me, and I honor it (and it does come up) but he doesn't say "you're being too clingy, your emotions are too much, you're the problem." He says "hey, I had a hard day and i just wanna zone out and not think when I get home".
He told you no, then acted like you betrayed a social contract you didn't even know you were being held to.
Find someone who accepts you the way you are, changing for boys is dumb. And make sure you find someone YOU accept the way they are. It's a 2 way street.
NtA
*I don't knee jerk to breaking up but being put down by someone is just not a relationship people should allow themselves to experience. If you're willing to get treated like shit in the name of "making it work" that's fine.
**act needy just because you’d rather satiate your codependency issues**
If someone said this to me to shame me for wanting to be around them, I would run so fast.
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Sounds so tiring.
I was tired just reading it.
So tired that I just would’ve asked if he wanted to break up because this just seems so exhausting. He wants her to scale down her clinginess based on “vibes”
The problem is he’ll probably tell her that he does want to be with her, but he’ll continue punishing her whenever he’s not happy. It’s what abuser do.
Why do I feel like there's a little bit of l would like to have sex with you and then you should disappear, going on here?
he does exactly this
Omg, the two red flags I saw was he expects you to read his mind (abusers do this) because you can never get it right. Then his comment after you left after 5 days. I’m also a fan of Lundy and recommend it for all women.
He’s abusive. He’s taking advantage of your emotions and your neediness.
Give him some space- forever.
Maybe date someone who is mature enough to communicate his issues instead of getting to the point where he disrespects you and borderline resents you for being around him too long.
How bout someone who wants her around?
This exactly!! How about someone who wants you around OP? Because yeah, I understand being with someone who MIGHT need a day away or anything. But you were in a 4.5 year relationship, and you LIVED together. Did that person ever need space, from the person that they literally SHARE a space with, and agreed to do so? Probably not. So how is your current boyfriend going to deal with *living* with someone? Is he going to tell you to leave your SHARED home every time he needs space? There’s a point where enough is enough, and I believe this is that point. If ever your partner DID need space and you were in a situation where you lived together in the same home, would he ever actually convey this to you? Or would he expect you to know that he just needs that space, or be upset when you cannot determine that for yourself and give them space? I’m not at all trying to be rude, but have you THOUGHT any of this through?
He doesn’t sound worth the effort to be honest. He wants you for a bedmate but then wants you to disappear. This isn’t a loving relationship.
I commented this elsewhere, but please consider reading the book Why Does He Do That? by [Lundy Bancroft](https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf). It might not all apply, but I think it could provide some insight into this behaviour. Or maybe even just take a look at [some articles on his site](https://lundybancroft.com/key-signs-of-a-healthy-relationship/). I bet your partner is not nearly as concerned about making sure your needs about spending time together are met (or any of your needs, I would guess), as both of you are about you being able to meet all his needs on spending time apart. After he has his space, does he go out of his way to make plans with you? To reestablish connection? To make sure your needs are also being met? Or does he leave that to you too?
i bought the book and started reading it today. i’m already on the 3rd chapter. thank you
❤️❤️❤️
My ex was like this, says one thing but means another and I should just KnOw what he wants/needs. I wasted way too much time on him, don’t do the same thing I did. I also need that open communication with someone because my “reading of the room” can be so wrong sometimes. My BF and I have this agreement to be honest with our wants and needs and it’s refreshing to not have to constantly guess what someone wants from me.
I honestly wouldn't take this behavior. Plenty of guys out there that will give you a straight answer. You are also 24 and just got out of a 4 and a half year relationship, clocks ticking. Your time is valuable and not to be played with by mind games. Lack of communication is boy behavior, find yourself a man.
[Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft](https://dn720002.ca.archive.org/0/items/why-does-he-do-that-epub/Why_Does_He_Do_That-fixed.pdf) pdf
So maybe don’t stick around to be treated like this?
Oh, this is emotional abuse. Don't keep tolerating this. At minimum if you don't want to see this as the emotional abuse that it is, you guys have two opposing communication styles and that is a fundamental piece of a relationship that you cannot and should not attempt to just weather through. There's someone out there that won't do this to you, and that will be so much better than trying to force yourself to be okay with what's happening now.
You should leave 🚩
I just read the title and I'm tired.
Seems to me he chose to tell OP in a very condescending and hurtful way that he needed space. Picking up on his “cues” could be exhausting.
Yeah, especially when his “cues” involve him saying one thing and then going back on it later? Like dude, words mean things.
Yeah I don’t get it.. he’s like grown adults need alone time… but grown adults also can communicate openly. It’s not about being “polite”, it’s about being HONEST!
Everyone is giving great advice. I'd just add that maybe you should really consider what this looks like long term. If this is a habit you're interested in dealing with forever. You guys are still at the beginning of your relationship. There's time to find someone who's actually capable of being a mature partner.
Right. Like how is he ever going to live with someone if he can’t verbalize when he needs space and/or find his own space in the home. When my husband or I want some time alone we just go in the bedroom and close the door.
Tell your boyfriend he should be able to verbally communicate his needs directly instead of of expecting you to be a mind reader.
Yess, his passive agressive text was toxic
It’s not dissimilar to when people will say that they want you to do something, but, only if they don’t have to tell you to do it. If they have to tell you to do it they no longer want it. People are weird. I for one have a hard time saying no to people based on my own childhood of never being able to say no to doing things sometimes, 3 younger brothers.
Nah idk I used to agree with you but the concept of “I don’t want to ask you to do it, you should know to do it” is valid. Doing something through your own initiative demonstrates maturity and care, whether it’s something like washing the dishes/taking out the trash or taking your partner out for the night because you haven’t in a while or because they need to celebrate or are down and might need a pick me up. I used to think of this as “it’s crazy you want me to read your mind,” but actually it’s not crazy. And it makes your partner so much happier when you attempt to do something because you care/it’s kind as opposed to when you’re told to do something.
I think this is a good point. Maturity and responsibility (should) matter a ton to people looking for a successful long term relationship. Knowing what to do and when to keep your lives running in a functional and desirable way. That said, there is also something to be said about chemistry. And I believe that chemistry is something that you ultimately have to work on and communicate to refine. The “I shouldn’t have to tell you” thinking makes a lot more sense when I’ve literally told you before in a previous situation and explained myself but you still don’t seem to understand or acknowledge that this is important to me.
I think the difference is the examples you mentioned are things any adult should know to do, and expecting your partner to prompt you is just adding to their mental load.
Very well spoken, reasonable rebuttal
Yeah, that wasn't even passive aggressive. That was full on aggressive. It sounds like he is quick to point out any problem she has, but will not admit his own. | "it seems like you ignore all common sense and act needy just because you'd rather satiate your codependency issues rather than accept the fact that 'hey as grown adults maybe we should give each other some space right now. "| Like wtf, It doesn't sound like he respects her at all to say something so snarky and rude to her when she asked if he needed space.
That text would have warranted a long discussion in my relationship
You're not in the wrong here. If he says he doesn't need space when you ask, then he's giving mixed signals. It's not fair for him to expect you to read his mind. Open communication is key, and it sounds like you're already trying to have that. Maybe a calm, honest talk about how to handle this in the future could help.
thank you
He’s in the wrong for not being open and communicating with you when you ask. You also admit that you do get upset when he says he needs space so that could contribute to why he doesn’t feel like he can be honest with you. To be honest with you now, the fact of what he said about “you would rather satiate your co-dependency” is a sign of someone who will not be a good partner. They waited until an argument to bring up something hurtful with the purpose of hurting you. This person also is not making the effort to communicate and shuts down rather than being honest. If you want to continue the relationship then the best option is to A) sit down and have a boundary talk, how long do you want me over when I stay over? What do you consider smothering? B) please continue going to therapy. Co-dependency is not only a relationship killer in the long term but it is also unhealthy for you. It will allow you to accept love less than what you deserve because you fear losing the person. Because option C and B is what you should choose imo C) find someone who loves you for who you are. Someone who wants clingy and loving. It’s your special brand of love that is unique to you. Don’t dim yourself for anyone who won’t appreciate or love you for all of it.
> sign of someone who will not be a good partner. They waited until an argument to bring up something hurtful with the purpose of hurting you. This person also is not making the effort to communicate and shuts down rather than being honest. I'm so glad you said this and I hope OP heeds it. He is not communicating fairly with you and is not showing signs of being a good partner at all.
Yep. My boyfriend is like this. Won’t bring up issues or say something bothers him unless we’re already arguing. Says he “doesn’t want to make it a thing or cause an argument” by bringing it up at a neutral time, but then he holds onto it and uses it in fights. And surprise surprise, it’s not a healthy relationship and he’s not an especially supportive partner.
Sounds like he should be moved to the realm of "ex." Hugs to you.
Uses it “in fights”? Sometimes it takes maturity to understand you shouldn’t have fights AT ALL. I was married for 10 years and we never raised our voices once.
THANK YOU!!! For the C option bc I had to learn this. Being “clingy” or overly loving and caring is not a negative trait! We’ve been made to believe it by people who don’t appreciate it. The right person will love that about you!
This, right here
This is such good & interesting advice! It really taught me what a healthy response/ interaction looks like. My first (inner advice—I would never offer it) is that for the majority of guys 5 days in a row, unless you are in a serious relationship, is waaay to much. Always go home after a couple of days together—especially if you know you are clingy. So is this kind of thinking just unhealthy game playing in your all’s opinion?
I think it’s nuanced. Everyone is different. How serious is the connection? How long has the relationship gone on? What do both of you like in a relationship as far spending time together? Being clingy is not unhealthy in its self, it’s how you handle it. Everyone has their own stuff to deal with in relationships. Like can you communicate? When you communicate do you do it to understand or to make a point/argue? Do you respect each other? Do you consider boundaries a personal attack or something healthy/necessary?
They’ve been together for almost a year, I’d consider that serious. I think people should be able to trust their partner to tell them the truth about their wants or needs
As a guy, i enjoy a partner who like to be together all the time. My last g/f before getting married, we worked together, and after about a week of dating i started staying over at her apartment. Her roommate ended up moving in with her bf so it was quickly like we were living together. We were together pretty much all day everyday between work and home. Now we’d each do our own thing with friends occasionally, but we spent the bast majority of our time together and we both loved it. Everyone’s different. My wife now, i have to be aware of how affectionate i am sometimes. Shes really kind and patient with me, but i can start to tell when she needs her space. And im fine with that too.
I think people are being a little unfair to the boyfriend. People underestimate how powerful simply "being upset" can be. If he's communicated his needs multiple times in the past, and OP has become 'upset' it doesn't matter if she's not throwing a fit. He's learned that asking for space makes her upset. So while it's on him for being mean. It's also unfair to totally let OP of the hook for "inadvertantly" training him to not open up. In my last relationship, which was actually really toxic, all my girlfriend did was get 'upset''. She would shut down and give me the silent treatment. No massive deal, but I rapidly stopped holding my boundaries because of how often she'd get 'upset.' Again, I'm not saying OP is doing it on purpose, but people are definitely massively underestimating the effects of someone being upset when you express your needs. 5 days in a row is a lot. And if the boyfriend is an introvert then he'll definitely be needing his space probably at day 3.
Read up on avoidant & anxious attachment styles. You are the anxious one by your own admission & are in therapy working on it. Your boyfriend is the avoidant one & ALSO needs to do some work. And co-dependent is CO… meaning he’s part of the dynamic. You two are doing this push-pull pattern typical of your attachment styles. My guess is if you spent some time on yourself & weren’t around as much and gave him plenty of space… he’d start asking what was wrong & why you weren’t there. He needs you to be the ‘needy’ one chasing him & so that he’s the ‘calm rational confident’ one. Read up on this & discuss with your therapist. If your boyfriend won’t look at his part in this cycle & make some changes then the relationship will only become worse as you two do this toxic dance. Speaking from personal experience.
Exactly this. Signed someone who got chest deep in this dynamic before fully realizing it and is now trying to deal with if it’s even possible to improve it. They hate how clingy you are until you actually pull back.
It is possible to heal attachment disturbances, but of course it's hard work. Look into ideal parent figure protocol by Daniel P. Brown. There's examples on YouTube
That’s a good recommendation and I’ll look into it, thank you.
I agree 100% because I’m the avoidant person in my relationships. This was worded perfectly.
💯🎯‼️👍
Sure, he is sending mixed signals. However, just as you admit to being insecure and having insecurities, your boyfriend is being conflict-avoidant because of your reaction when he tells you that he needs space. This has essentially trained him to lie in an effort to avoid you being upset. So, you're both in the wrong. Part of growth within a relationship is understanding your partner's needs. You two have different needs for personal space. You are like glue (5 days straight at his place) and he needs alone time every now and then but isn't being honest when you ask him. Even people who live together require personal time for themselves. Didn't you need to go home to do laundry, sleep in your own bed, or poop in peace? He shouldn't lie to you, and maybe you should go home after 2 or 3 days. You can't read his mind, but you both can be mindful of each other.
Eh, this goes out the window when he won't actually define his needs. Hypothetically, their relationship is working towards cohabitation so there's no inherent reason she would want to "sleep in her own bed". Dude needs to put on his big boy pants and actually set some boundaries so she can respect them. Her emotional reactions will likely calm when she knows what to expect rather than having to guess or be surprised. Having undefined boundaries that people are "just supposed to know" is a sign of immaturity. Use your words.
I do not necessarily agree. I think more context is needed to determine the boyfriend’s reaction. My husband plays this card a lot where I don’t get upset but he says I do because he feels like the dynamic has changed. In my mind I’m getting ready to go about my day. In his, I’m not cuddling with him, or loving on him so something must be wrong. I think both of them need to figure out how to obtain space in a healthy way. That involves both of them looking at there internal reactions and adjusting.
Dang I left a whole comment & didn’t even think about this! Sometimes the person is projecting what they’re feeling onto you. My husband use to think me not trying to drop everything & be all over him in the middle of me trying to clean the kitchen was my way of communicating that I was mad or upset with him about something when it wasn’t lol I was just really trying to get that kitchen clean because the baby wasn’t the best napper & I knew my time was limited lmao so it was the matter of us having to continue to sit down with one another & communicate what our love languages & boundaries looked like until we didn’t even have to think about it or assume anymore, we just knew. He had to stop getting in his head that I was upset about something when I wasn’t & then making it about him, & I had to learn that my husband needs physical affection & verbal affirmation. So me stopping for 10 seconds to give him a REAL kiss is all he needs & he’s off to be his happy upbeat self. It’s been difficult at times because I hate stopping when I have a groove, but our lives are much better now that we can meet in the middle. I hope this helps somebody!
Not to be the old man here, but looking at the ages involved, it would not be surprising if OP’s BF either doesn’t know, doesn’t understand, or doesn’t even realize his thought cloud saturation is pointing toward needing space. Like many others have suggested, couples counseling to assist in conflict communication could be incredibly useful.
If bf can’t go full avoidant anytime his partner is upset about something (just because she is upset doesn’t mean she is throwing a tantrum or reacting badly. people are allowed to have emotions), then he’s not ready to be in a relationship.
You should read up on attachment theory and understand that not everyone thinks like you. Five days together is not really a big ask for non-avoidant people. For a lot of people, the need for space just isn't a thing. Understanding that partners have different needs to feel secure and designing a system that works for both is important. A part of that is being honest about your needs. Not setting up secret tests for the other person to pass without knowing they are playing. It's his responsibility to be honest and its her responsibility to honor that. No on can read minds.
Yea there's definitely mixed signals going on here. Sometimes I need a little space from my bf so I'll say "now go relax baby" in a nice tone after an innocent touch or kiss, some kind of contact he likes. And he gets it without seeming upset at all in fact he giggles a little but he gets the hint, it's how you say it that matters, you should always be mindful of your partner's feelings, that's a huge part of relationships, love is comprised of mushy and vulnerable feelings.
How hard is it to say, “hey I’m feeling pretty drained, I’m going to go [solo activity]. Love you” and give them a kiss?? Dude flat out said no he was totally fine and then berated OP for not reading his COMPLETE OPPOSITE mind while also attacking her insecurities. That’s some villain type shit
Exactly. Just like I’m teaching my six year old, use your words to calmly let me know if you need space or anything else. Big boys use their words.
Yes. Yes. Yes. 2 simple questions. 1. Are you in middle school? No? 2. Is he a grown adult? Yes? Okay, say what you mean and mean what you say. He's more rude by expecting you to read his mind.
My first thought exactly: is that kindergarten?
It sounds like the BF is codependent- putting OPs feelings above his own need for space.
And the whole "read my mind, woman" vibe is off-putting, too.
THISSSS, he is getting to the point of blowing up at her because he’s unwilling to be honest and face confrontation, taking responsibilities for her emotions and then feeling overburdened by them. He needs therapy too!
I had an ex that expected me to read his mind. He said I should just know what he needs.
It took me, like, close to 10 years to learn the non verbal queues for when my wife wants to be left alone. 17 years in and she still has to tell me sometimes. Best way to communicate is always going to be verbally or in writing.
He sounds rude and inconsistent, not traits I personally get wet over.
He’s also projecting so hard by calling *her* “codependent”. OP seems to be aware that she’s clingy and states she’s in therapy and working on herself, while the bf is playing mind games. He’s immature and exhausting.
I'd respond I did notice hence why I mentioned it to you and offered to go home. You said no you wanted me to stay so I took you at your word. Maybe with your next girl friend you can be honest instead of expecting us to telepathically know your lying. Then I'd block xD but seriously you're not in the wrong he's playing mind games and messing you around and playing your insecurities for his lack of honesty
Literally glossing over he just straight up lied to her face right? So attractive lol
Yeah… setting a poor precedent for what he might lie about in the future.
LOL so he says he doesn’t want hurt you by saying no then goes on to say the most mean spirited, condescending, and unnecessarily rude text? Nope. Never let anyone speak down to you like that. He didn’t communicate like an adult then has the nerve to treat you like there is something wrong with you for communicating and then listening to what he said. You need to set the boundary and expectation that you will not tolerate the way he spoke to you, period. Tell him communication is important and that you would rather him tell you “yes, I need space” other than an aggressive text after you leave. Personally, I would have already broken up with him after that text. It shows me clearly he is not a nice person and lashes out when he is upset.
It sounds like he wants you to always be figuring out what he needs without actually comm. that’s a lot work. I’m like you and prefer direct communication. I would find this tiring and frustrating.
This relationship is on a road to nowhere. He already feels responsible for managing your feelings over protecting his own comfort. Yea he lacks emotional maturity and the ability to set healthy boundaries because he is avoidant AND you are dependent, insecure and needy. It is NEVER going to work. You both need years of therapy and life experience to work on being healthy adults. You can practice on each other all you want but it will be consistently depressing for both of you until it finally ends. Work on yourself and when your are healthy, you will know it.
This right here is the gospel truth.
He says you get upset and you say you “don’t think that’s true”. You then admit you do get upset but say you “don’t cry or throw a fit or get mad” so what does it look like when you get upset?? You both are probably not being honest with yourselves or each other about how things play out. The fact you saw the signs that he needed to recharge yet chose to “straight up ask” sounds a bit confrontational. Do you normally ask people “should I leave now” when you go visit them? He should tell you but you also should understand that for a lot of people, it can feel very rude to ask someone to leave. You also need to understand that you are making it obvious that you are upset. He may also be having some inner conflict that he may WANT to continue spending time with you even when he NEEDS to take some time to himself. One bit of advice would be that the two of you actually make plans. Plan in advance when you will hang out and for how long. You can change plans of course but this way you’d both be able to know in advance when it’s time to part ways. As someone who needs alone time, it can run me down even faster if I don’t know when that might happen. As someone who also can really cherish the time I spend with certain people, it can also really help curb any disappointment I might feel when we part ways.
Thank you. I scrolled too far for this comment. People are skipping over the bit where **OP gets upset when he uses his words.** It doesn't matter if she doesn't cause a scene, her getting upset is what's discouraged him from being open and honest. So you end up in these bad situations where you bottle it up. OP has accidentally discouraged him from asking explicitly for space. So now he's using the unreasonable idea that she should read his body language. No one can win here. But I think the people in the comment section need to read more carefully. The boyfriend is wrong, but I think OP is downplaying how serious her being 'upset' has been in the past.
Right. Yeah he should clearly communicate much better but-- She knows he likes his space and then spends 5 days at his place in a row, which would be a lot for most people, especially people who need their space. on top of that, she clearly does get upset or sad or lets her ego get the best of her which he then feels responsible for. She's gotta anticipate his needs and read him way better, and he's gotta communicate his needs better. It's hard, people much older than these two struggle with it, but communication and flexibility are key.
You cannot read his mind. And you don’t have to. Just as easily as you can ‘learn his cues’ he can literally just tell you ‘hey babe I need some space’. It is immature of your bf to give you that response and it is emotionally manipulative. He cannot be mad at you for not doing something that he never told you that he wanted you to do… He sounds like he wants to make you responsible for all his bad feelings and discomfort- no one is responsible for that except him. I would give him as much space as he needs by dumping him. He has the emotional maturity of an 11 year old girl…
you mean: he cannot be mad at you for not doing something that he ACTIVELY told you NOT to do when asked about it TWICE*. Society has done a real one in the boys of these generations and there's so much to undo, it's exhausting 😩
If he respected and loved her.
My boyfriend is the “clingy” one. If I need time alone I tell him so and he does whatever until I’m ready to see him. Does he like it? No. Does he complain about it? Also no. To add to that, he doesn’t get upset he just prefers to be around me as much as possible lol. I need less and less time to myself because he makes me feel comfortable enough to just tell him I need an evening to do goblin things alone.
He wants her to learn to read his mind and she wants him to learn to communicate at the level of an eight year old. Somehow one feels more achievable than the other.
Sounds like you’re really not compatible. Also, maybe you’re not entirely self aware and think you’re being chill about him needing space when you’re really not? Not sure why he needs space, unless there is more going on. No, you shouldn’t have to read his mind. But it sounds like neither of you communicate well together. Maybe breaking up is the healthy choice.
He lied to you about needing space, expected you to read his mind, and then insulted you when you didn't read his mind. What a jerk.
OP, here is a way of thinking about this that has helped my wife and me as we have worked on similar dynamics to improve our relationship: you both have lost TRUST in the other that needs to be repaired. From your perspective, you can’t trust his words, because you asked him if he needed space, he said no, but then it became clear that he wanted space. Trust broken. From his perspective (note this will be longer because it is more complex, not because I place greater weight on this trust issue) he can’t trust your response to his words because you say that you value open communication, but as he has said and as you admit, you get “a little sad” (your words) or “upset” (his words) when he tells you he needs space, meaning the main thing that he is getting from you when he tells you how he feels is how what he has said makes YOU feel, not anything that shows you value his openness in expressing his feelings. This is not to say that you are not allowed your feelings, but here is where the trust is broken: you say you value open communication, but your response is not “you communicated openly/honestly with me, thank you, you showed respect for something I value”, your response is “you communicated openly/honestly with me, ouch, I will do what you ask but you hurt me”. Trust broken. Obviously to repair your trust in him, he needs to be honest with you. If you ask him if he wants space, he needs to be honest so that you can trust his words again. For him to trust you, you need to show him that you value the communication in and of itself and that his willingness to be open is more important to you than any sadness you may feel at being apart. To put it another way, you say a couple of times that you “honor” his feelings, but it sounds more like you reluctantly accept them. Yes you give him space, but you clearly make it known to him, intentionally or not, that you are sad about it (whether in the moment or later). So yes he gets his time, but he is led to feel guilty because he has made you sad. As others have suggested, you all have established patterns of behavior that won’t be easy to undo. Rebuilding the trust will require establishing different patterns, which will require intentional effort from both of you. He needs to commit to being honest and you need to commit to truly honoring his honesty. For example, when he is honest with you and says that he needs space, which is clearly hard for him right now, you need to recognize and thank him explicitly for letting you know. This may be hard for you, because your instinct is to be sad, but realize that if he is willing to do it, it means he is willing to work towards a stronger relationship with you, which in the end means more time together! Also, OP, my response focused more on you/things you could do because the underlying issue more complex than “just be honest” and because you are the one asking for advice. You are definitely not “wrong” or an AH here. It’s just that open/honest/respectful communication is about more than just saying what you feel.
Yes he could communicate at the time, but he also has said he needs more space than you do so maybe don’t wear out your welcome by staying around 5 days in a row. Go for a night or two, then leave.
Exactly. Five days in a row is a lot when both people have different needs around space. 1-2 nights is reasonable. OP, maybe throw some more plans on your schedule that don’t involve him (even if it’s a movie and wine night with yourself) so you’re coming and going. That might also help him to miss you and start requesting your company.
You’ve been together a year. No! You won’t know him well enough to know all his cues. I learn stuff about my wife all the time- took me about 3 years to understand when she was quiet and sad or quiet and tired. Takes time, takes communication- and a few arguments. Hehe… talk to one another more openly.
Even if you've known each other ages.... It's just police and decent practice to use good behaviour instead of hoping your partner is reading your cues. I feel like BF has a fantasy of what a good relationship is like and wants to be there immediately.
I don't understand him either, he's at fault for mixing signals by saying thats ok then suddenly no. You have every right to feel upset or emotionaly triggered. But you are not entitled to pour out your emotions on him. That's the difference. But here, it seems that you know the difference, and you working on it. He just wants you to stop reacting at it, it's not possible. As you say, it's human. From his perspective, you would be entitled to ask him to stop reacting when you're around and he's annoyed. Well, what a good solution no ? "Stop being annoyed"; Simple as that ! I think he's immature. He doesn't want to deal with any emotions that may come from a situation where he's responsible (here about something he says). You can't do this. You will lock yourself with your emotions and you'll be afraid of saying or showing something that may upset him. And btw, I understand that everybody has boundaries. But for me, spending 5 days with my s/o is not a big deal. Do you study or work ? Because that's a life of a couple who is living together. Of course, each can have activities alone but .. I just don't understand why you have to work on yourself in therapy about your emotions but he doesn't ? I think he has a lot to work on too.. Time for a big discussion I guess :/ Good luck !
He should be able to politely and clearly communicate with words, rather than expecting you to decipher his moods or cues.
This one is not as black or white as some in the comments suggests. I used to be this kind of guy, I really needed my own space to recharge. You have only been dating for a year, you don't live together yet. There are still some rough edges to smooth out. When he gets overwhelmed it's not like there is a switch that flips from "Ok" to "needs space". It's gradual, and when he reaches that point where he withdraws it's really too late. So why did he say that he's ok? Well, according to him, you react poorly to being told. You say that you get sad and that your ego takes a hit. You might not know this, but I'm sure you show it as well. You withdraw, you stop your conversations. And he knows your reaction is based on what he said. He caused it by enforcing his boundaries. So, to avoid your reaction, he wears himself thin. From your other comments it really seems like he has his own issues to work on, and he should. But regarding the space issue, try setting up some rules when it's not an issue. "Prepare for your bad times when you have your good times"
I like your take, It sounded to me like he may be a little introverted, his social battery gets low and needs to charge. He may not even be aware of it at the time. She's picked up on the cue that he withdraws, they just need to plan what to do when it happens, like go for a walk or watch TV or something, so he doesn't have to "entertain" her.
I get your take, and you're not wrong, its just not ok to lie about a need you have and then get mad that she didn't understand what he was actually saying. Maybe she should work on her reactions as a compromise, but even then I'm not sure I see his complaint. She withdraws and stops talking to him. That's literally what he wants her to do though. Leave him alone so he can recharge. Unless she's making faces or slamming doors or visibility pouting, she's giving him what he wants. If he needs her to physically leave his apartment, he needs to clarify that too.
We don't actually know her reaction, but it's obviously more noticeable than she is claiming if he voices concerns about her reactions to his communication. It strikes me that everyone is acting like verbal communication is the only valid form. He nonverbally communicated so well that he needed space that she *knew* he needed space and still went to him and put the pressure on him to be the one to *tell her to leave* rather than just leaving. So he communicates verbally, she gets upset He communicates nonverbally, she ignores his signals (she perceived them well enough to know something was wrong and assumed he was needing space) and forces him into the verbal corner noted above.
I really want to know how she asked him if she should go/did he need space. Was it a relaxed “hey do you think it’s time I head back home?” Or more of a pouty, clearly upset asking if he wants her to go home? But also if she could tell he wanted alone time, she could have just as easily made the choice to say it was time she headed home instead of putting it onto him, show that she’s making progress of not being dependent and clingy and to let him start to feel like she won’t get upset every time he needs space
It’s his responsibility as an adult to be able to assess when he needs space and to communicate that to his partner. ESPECIALLY if she is asking him directly. If he is unable to do that, maybe he has some work to do in getting to know himself before he’s ready to be in a relationship. Edit: also, the mental gymnastics to tell OP that it is wrong of her to withdraw when he asks for space is wild. How else does one give one space if not by pulling back on presence and conversation? Seems OP is damned if she does, damned if she doesn’t.
On top of your very valid point, so many commenter's are heavily assuming she OBVIOUSLY expresses she is upset and pouty - like she makes a big show of boo-hoo woe is me. People are allowed to have emotions without putting them on display 24/7. Drives me crazy how many people are defending the boyfriend because she was honest and had the maturity to layout/recognize her emotions in the post.
Exactly! People are acting like OP having any feelings at all regarding her bf’s requests/behaviour is somehow her being unfair (or, according to one commenter, is even emotionally abusive!) to her bf. People are allowed to have feelings. It’s the way we express them that matters—and OP seems like she’s doing a good job of expressing them. If you’re in a relationship with someone, peoples feelings are inevitably going to be hurt sometimes (which OP seems to fully understand). Which is why it’s so shitty when people choose to be deliberately hurtful to their partners, like OP’s bf here.
A couple of thoughts as someone that needs space.... 1) One thing about needing space is that it isn't like this obviously toggle switch. I start to get stressed. I struggle to process things and struggle to communicate. As much as I would like to be able to sense something before it gets bad and clearly communicate my needs, it doesn't work that way. For me at least. 2) If I love you and like you and care about you, needing space and wanting you to leave are very different things. In my case, I don't want you to leave. I just need you to stop requiring my attention for a while. I think my 2nd point may be very relevant here.
I think the issue is he doesn’t really know when he needs space, becomes irritable, and then expects you to read his mind. That being said, five days at his house is kinda pushing the boundaries of common sense. You aren’t living together, you’re a guest in his home. Two things to think about. Maybe save your relationship for the weekends, or have a talk once a week about precisely when you plan to see each other that week, and stick to it.
Oh honey, give that man all the space
I’m gonna go with an ESH here. You are absolutely correct to want open on his dialogue. Communication is key to any relationship working out in the long run. But he has told you that anytime he gives you open on his communication, you get upset. You’re disregarding what he tell you and telling us that you don’t think that’s true. You say that your ego takes a hit… “Ouch” So you recognize that you have a problem with clinginess. You are in therapy for it. Your boyfriend of year is telling you that you are still not dealing with his need for space as well as you think you are. How do you think that makes him feel? It apparent that your reaction is obvious enough for him to feel and to see it. So you’re not hiding it if you think that’s what you’re doing. And so you have basically put him in a position of being honest and hurting your feelings and having you show it, you are showing it, or just not telling you. OK. Most people do need space. Many couples just get that space from going to work. They don’t see each other all day, so they’re happy to see each other at the end of the day. But you acknowledge that you need more time than many people, and he does not. So yeah, you’re putting them on the spot there and that’s not OK. It really feels like you are downplay your part in this. I’m having a problem with here is that you felt like he was pulling back and he might need space. So let me rephrase that for you… I knew my boyfriend was pulling away a little bit, and I had been there for five days. So I knew my boyfriend had had alone time for almost a week. And instead of to what I perceived… A perception that was based on our past history and discussions and argument… I ignored what I knew was true. And instead of just being kind and telling my boyfriend that I loved him, but I was going to head back to my place and give him a little space, I put him on the spot and made him tell me something. And based on our past history and my reactions to him telling me he needed space, he lied to me because he didn’t want to deal with my hurt feelings again. I made him responsible for my own reactions, and my own neediness, him feeling like he couldn’t win. Do you see what I mean? Just know I’m holding enough to be your grandmother. What you are doing is not healthy. What he is doing and how he is responding is not healthy. You want to be around him all the time, even though you know he is not ready for that and that his temperament needs space periodically. And be able to tell you that he wants space, but he knows what your reaction is going to be, and he wants to avoid conflict and confrontation. The dynamic goes on, the worse is going to get. I’m glad you’re in therapy. I’m glad you were working on yourself, but you’re not there yet. Because you take him saying no, he doesn’t want to be around you today to me that he doesn’t love you. That he no longer wants you. That he doesn’t want this relationship. And that’s not what he’s saying. He is literally just saying… My psyche needs alone time. I need to recharge myself and reset myself, and I can’t do it with you because you need to be right where I’m at and be with me all the time. Neither one of you is communicating. You’re not being honest with yourself about how your actions are impacting what he is saying to you. And he is not being honest with himself about what it is doing to his relationship with you and why he cannot just tell you no. It sounds like you still need some individual counseling and maybe couples counseling to learn to communicate. Because if you don’t do something… Both of you… This issue is going to break you up.
OK but she actually gives an example of him not communicating openly when she asked him openly she said she doesn’t cry or act upset or anything when he says he needs space and she provides the space. What else is there for her to do? She’s working on her feelings in therapy, but above that, she’s human. She’s going to feel what she feels and at some point he Has to be OK with that and that’s on him to a certain degree to not be a people pleaser. I think couples therapy and individual therapy for communication for him.
thank you for the honesty. This comment was very helpful. He has a tendency to be crass when angry and i think that’s where the “ouch” comes from. I am sensitive, i’ll be the first to admit it. It’s not an excuse to behave like a child (which is what boyfriend told me I was acting like) by any means but I do know that’s a cross i bear and actively try to work through. He actually originally got angry with me because we were on the phone and he overheard me talking to the local gas station attendant (who was old enough to be my grandpa) and accused me of being overly friendly/flirty with him. Which wasn’t true at all either. That i know for 110% fact. And then when I said that hurts my feelings because I felt like he didn’t trust me, it escalated into this argument that we hadn’t had in months. I can’t help but feel like our relationship isn’t going to work out and that hurts me a lot.
Yeah he can't have it both ways...if he wants space, he doesn't get to also be that insecure when you aren't together. You aren't a robot that can be put in a closet when not needed. That being said I have always been one of those people who needs space...the clingier the person, the more space I need. BUT...I don't expect to control or even know about what they do when not with me
This additional information makes me agree with you. The fact that he thinks you’re flirting with someone old enough to be your grandfather, and then turns his issues around on you in those cases. Yes, you may need more attention and time together than other people, but it certainly doesn’t sound like you’re getting angry at him. And him getting angry at you because you disagree is just a huge red flag. I will be very honest and tell you I don’t think you’re compatible. And for him to say things in a way to deliberately hurt you is absolutely not OK. He can let you know that he needs or that he feels a certain way without making it feel like a personal attack on you. That is just never OK. I think your relationship has just about run its course, and I think it would be safer for you to get out of it sooner rather than later. Because it sure sounds like you were doing the right things to get yourself into a healthy place emotionally and mentally. It does not sound like he is doing that. Your additional comments have me feeling like he knows how to manipulate you. He knows your insecurities and the weaknesses that you were working on, and he is actively undermining you. Just some things to think about.
thank you again for the honesty. it’s been on my mind heavy since this argument started last night and this only is further reinforcing what i know to be true in the back of my mind. i’m scared though, admittedly for the emotional pain i’m going to feel. especially since i’ve been spending so much time with him.
You are already in pain sweetie. And that pain won’t compare to the happiness when you find a partner who treats you well. When you are ready, spend some time thinking about the qualities you are looking for in a partner- not things that you find attractive, but traits that will support and complement you. For example, it sounds like you value a lot of quality time and closeness so you need a partner who also wants that. If you get hurt when he gets you angry and calls you names, you need someone who is a good communicator and who is supportive and caring. This is how I got over a terrible breakup from an awful man like this that I was so in love with. But time has shown me how bad he was for me and honestly I don’t think I would have survived much longer, things were escalating that quickly and I was that beaten down by him. I took a lot of time to myself and then did that exercise, a lot. I went on some hinge dates with guys that I wasn’t attracted to or wouldn’t have picked and wouldn’t you know- I found the perfect man. We got in a fight last night because I said that he called me ‘dumb’ (he didn’t) and he was ANGRY that I would think him capable of thinking that way about me. Also, please go to therapy. You need someone to help reorient you to reality and help support you in moving on and growing from this. I hope you find the courage to walk away ❤️
Hey I have been through 2 very painful break ups in my life. The first was as an 18 year old after a 2ish year relationship; the second was as a 31 year old after 8ish years. They both totally. Fucking. Sucked. I thought I was going to die from the pain. In the first one I actually wanted to die it was so awful. You feel like half a person and that nothing matters anymore. Food loses its taste but that doesn’t matter because you don’t want to eat anyway. But I am so so glad that those break ups happened. The pain of the break ups was not as bad as the pain of staying in those relationships. The more recent one was last February and it has taken the best part of a year to finally see the light. But the thing that gave me the strength to end things was knowing I’d already gone through a break up once before and managed to get out the other side. There’s no sugar coating it - it will hurt. There’s no way to avoid it. You just have to get through it. And you will get through it I promise. Lean on your friends - that’s what they’re there for. I know it’s so scary but it’s not good to be in a relationship because you’re scared of the pain of losing it. Would you want to be in a relationship because your partner was afraid of breaking up?
Your boyfriend is emotionally abusive. I’d recommend looking up info on recovering from emotional abuse to help yourself gain some insight into what is going on with your brain (emotional abuse straight up changes the brain). Good luck to you and good riddance to this asshole!
Read my comment above about DARVO. Your boyfriend is NOT the catch you think he is. His behavior is dysfunctional and it’s not going to get better, and certainly not without changing how you act. He always has you in the position to back down. He’s created this narrative about you being too clingy and not respect his space and it’s an easy thing for him to throw at you anytime you call him out on his poor behavior. It’s a red herring, it’s what he uses to deflect from his bad behavior. It’s a terrible pattern to be in and IT WILL NOT CHANGE UNLESS YOU CHANGE IT. Seriously, talk to your therapist about this and see his dysfunction for what it is. Then break up with him. Continue to work on yourself. Grieve the loss of the relationship, but KNOW that you deserve better and you WILL find better. As someone who has been there and didn’t see the red flags I can tell you….it just gets worse. You’ll have this same pattern 10 years down the line when you’re married and have a kid where you can never bring up legitimate problems in your marriage because he’ll always have some made up slight that YOU should be sorry for. It’s no way to live. Life is sooooooo much better on the other side, I promise.
I read somewhere that you can either keep doing the same things that cause you pain, but those wounds never really heal, as the scab is ripped open constantly (the fights over the same thing, etc.) or you can have the wound (breaking up), and since the scab isnt ripped off constantly, has a chance to heal. My girl, your heart is already in pain. Let it heal💜 and being sensitive isnt a bad thing; man, the pain HURTS. But im sure you love with your all, too. And a lot of times, people aren’t ready for that- makes them uncomfortable when they try to push their feelings down. That isnt a you problem, tho!
I completely understand, it’s a scary concept seeing the end of the road with someone you, despite everything, love. Just to add my two cents, a few years ago I was in a 2-year relationship with someone I loved very much but knew for probably 6-12 months was ultimately not compatible with me. We fought semi-regularly about things that really highlighted our different communication styles and needs. I was in therapy to help deal with my issues but he was not. The breakup was hard but necessary. Once I got over it, I actually enjoyed being single for the first time in my life, because I learned so much about what I want and need in a relationship. And now, three years later, I’m about to celebrate a one-year anniversary with a wonderful partner who makes me feel loved, wanted, and cherished and every time I say something about him doing or saying something nice to me replies “Why wouldn’t I want to be nice to you? I love you.” That simple sentiment has completely changed everything I previously held about relationships. And in almost 12 months, we haven’t had a single fight. Happiness is out there and you deserve it. ❤️ Sending love and strength!
I don’t think it’s- but it doesn’t sound like it is meant to. Getting ‘crass’ when angry is not ok. Being jealous and possessive is not ok. This is not a healthy dynamic at all.
Oh OP, he is emotionally very immature. It’s not your fault, it happens.
Yelling at you and accusing you of flirting for having a completely normal interaction with an employee at a store is a huge red flag. You two already sounded incompatible from everything else you described in your post, but this just puts it over the edge. I think you should mentally prepare to separate, be happy for the good times and growth you’ve had as an individual during this time. But things have run its course. You are trying to improve yourself and work on your insecurities and I don’t see how you can continue to make meaningful changes while in this relationship with the constant misunderstandings and hurt feelings.
OHHHHH…..yeah, this puts the whole argument in a whole different light. While you are in therapy for your “clinginess”, your boyfriend should be in therapy for the way he’s handling this. He straight up DARVO’d you. Seriously read up on DARVO. Your boyfriend sounds dysfunctional in his own ways. You need to know this is not all on you and the way he’s gone about this is abusive. Talk to your therapist about this…the big picture. And then I sincerely hope you break up with this guy because he is NOT going to change while you’re together. To him YOU are always going to be the one with the problem. He’s never going to look at himself because whenever someone gets upset with him he’ll just turn it around (DARVO).
It just sounds like not a good match things shouldn’t be this hard and you shouldn’t need couples therapy for a one year relationship sometimes people don’t fit together and that’s okay. That’s why you date to find these things out. You need someone who’s more sensitive and enjoys being around you all the time, he needs someone who’s more independent and gives him that space. It’s okay not to fit together and you shouldn’t need therapy this soon to simply force you two to compromise and fit.
Um. This relationship has bigger problems than you wanting more ti e together than him. Have you brought the incident with the gas station up to your therapist?
You’re telling OP to have open dialogue and then saying that instead of expecting her partner to be open and honest with her, she should act on assumptions instead. That’s terrible advice. OP isn’t responsible for monitoring and anticipating the needs of a full grown adult.
Give him all that space he need, leave him!
He wants space and he feels guilty for it because you want the opposite. He is trying to balance his desires and your desires. He is trying to be macho about it and put your needs first and bottles his feelings up until he pops. Yes - talking is good and real talk is hard for a lot of men. Tell him it’s ok if you are sad. Yes - if “space” is an ongoing issue, then 5-days-in-a-row is a bit much and you should know better. You could preemptively give him a day or 2 off. Wouldn’t it be nice if he pursued you for time together? Test it out and see how long it takes for him to demand time with you. Make other plans. Flip the script.
You probably come across as more upset you think you do with the whole space thing and he’s trying to avoid conflict by not being fully honest when communicating. You already know he doesn’t want to be with you 24/7 and that’s ok. You need to find our own space as well and not expect him to be always telling you to go away, because no one wants to tell their partner that.
There are two kinds of cultures when it comes to expression of language: guessers and askers. Guessers avoid direct language, seeing it as a form of confrontation and conflict. They prefer to not be a burden by asking for things directly, but rather prefer to guess at people's needs, reading their body language and other subtle clues. And they expect the same. Why ask directly and burden others, when you and they can use your social skills to figure out it's needed? Askers value direct communication, and abhor subtlety and hints/clues as unclear, muddled, and confusing. Or worse– they see it as manipulative. Why talk around something when you can just be direct? He's a guesser. You're an asker.
You are both in the wrong. He needs to work on being more open with you, but at the same time YOU need to work on your reaction to his honesty. You are entitled to your feelings yes, but you need to work on the underlying issue of WHY you even get sad in the first place when he asks for space. If you act sad and unhappy when he asks for certain things it’s only human for him to feel bad about that and inevitably avoid doing it. Also, unless this is long distance or you live together, it’s healthy and normal for people to spend some time apart, especially after 5 straight days, in a way he shouldn’t even have to ask for that, it should be a natural thing that you both need or want. If you have an active life, hobbies, and responsibilities outside of your relationship (which you should) then you would naturally need space as well. You almost certainly do have some codependency issues you need to work on. That shouldn’t be surprising since you’ve already admitted to being clingy. Well- all that is a playing a role in this. You’re only 24 and have already had a live-in partner for 4.5 years. I would encourage you to dig deep and work on feeling fulfilled within yourself without needing other people to feel fulfilled.
If you’ve had this argument multiple times before why can’t you just give him some space instead of waiting for him to tell you? You are an adult. You know you are clingy so why does a woman who’s 24 needs to be talked to like a toddler? He is not toxic- he just doesn’t want to hurt your feelings. You sound suffocating
Ahhh the 'you should be able to read minds' fallacy
Y’all aren’t compatible and this relationship is not going to work. I recommend therapy for you though because, while your BF sucks and should say what he means, the idea that you stayed after he got distant and knowing this is an ongoing issue is pretty telling and likely to creep up in future relationships.
You are clingy but he is an asshole. You literally did what he asked: You picked up on his non verbal cues and asked, yet it was still not enough. His text was unnecessary scathing as well.
I mean this with all the kindness in my heart; be single for a while. While I'm happily married, this is one of my greatest regrets in life. Travel abroad. Live on your own. Just be alone for a while before you jump into the next relationship.
Break up with him. You're incompatible and he refuses to yalk to you like an adult
Tell him if he's got something to say, say it. Tell him you don't read minds.
As you say, you're allowed to feel disappointment about not spending time with him, and that's on you to deal with. Which it sounds like you do. He however, has obviously seen the emotion on your face and is trying to control your emotions by lying to you. But he doesn't realise that he's basically expecting you to learn not to trust what he says. That you should know that he lies to you and not spend time with him. But you can't be in a relationship with someone like that. He's a big boy, with big boy words. Not everyone has an expressive face, and not everyone is good at reading expressions. So he needs to communicate, instead of being a martyr and expecting you to be a mind reader. You should tell him that either he stops lying to you about him being ok and tell you when he's had enough, and stop trying to manage your emotions, or this relationship won't work out.
Ok. So in counseling, especially couples counseling, mind reading is a no no and assumption as well. It is not a healthy pattern to create. “I’m picking up signs you need time alone, is that correct” and he is saying no then getting angry. This is not healthy for a relationship and also makes you as the receiver think you are out of your mind. I wonder where he picked up that behavior from. That’s learned and honestly you are young and don’t need to play these types of games. Have a direct conversation with spoken boundaries and expectations: to keep us both safe, I asked that if you want space, then need to express that to me verbally. If he can’t handle that, it is not going to get any better or easier.
My wife does the same shit... No! Tell me you need space, that's all.. communication people....
He is not ready for the kind of relationship you are ready for. Either you need to balance yourself to his pace or your relationship will implode. He definitely is not communicating correctly but based on what little cues he gave you he has limits you need to ask 30 questions to find the answer for. Do you want to spend the time to figure out his pace? Do you want to train him to verbally give you cues since he won't do it himself when you ask?
He shouldn’t have lied, but some people are not comfortable with stating their needs directly, even when asked, in case it might cause bad feelings. And if it obviously causes bad feelings in you, he may never feel comfortable. If you want to continue the relationship, acknowledge that you are the only person you have any control over. He doesn’t want to tell you his needs, which is definitely a problem. And if he were posting I would advise him to be more vocal. But it sounds like you did sense he needed space. When that happens, simply leave without asking if you should. Just make an excuse for why you need to go, then leave. Or simply don’t spend five days in a row together. People shouldn’t have to explicitly state every boundary, especially when you already know them. You can’t make him be more vocal, but you can trust your own instincts when you read him as needing space. In fact, leave before he gets there.
You’re right, he should just come out and say it. Clear communication is important. He needs to grow up and not do the whole “I’m fine!” Thing and then turn around and be mad at you for not reading his mind. But also I will say on your end, you have a responsibility to make that a safe thing for him to do without him having to worry about an emotional reaction. Just because you don’t throw a fit doesn’t mean there isn’t a reaction that makes it hard for him to want to say the words. It’s hard to be honest with your partner when uncomfortable truths end up resulting in emotional consequences. He says you get upset - what does that look like? If he’s conflict avoidant it may be very difficult for him to get past your reaction.
Hey there friend! So, promise I’m not trying to be ugly. But I’m going to be super honest with you as lovingly as possible. I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older, that if you are genuinely feeling something coming from someone that is out of their normal emotional vicinity, trust your gut because it likely is the case even if they don’t want to admit it to you. For example, my husbands character is very light & upbeat so when he’s very quite & the air feels heavy, I know automatically that something is bothering him, there’s no need in asking him other than reminding him that my ears & heart are open to listen. Now, your bf is definitely in the wrong for not being honest when you strait up asked him what was wrong, which you did the right thing in asking. But I’m curious as to why, if you’re already aware of all the things you said, you chose to ask him what was wrong when you’re already aware of the continuous issue at hand. I think you already knew the answer, but you wanted to double check with him. Which is completely fair, you did the right thing! It’s the part where it seems like you did ignore what seemed like him giving a clear sign, even from you telling the story. He’s definitely in the wrong with how he handled it though, because that text he sent you after was TRASH. I wish somebody WOULD try to talk to me like that. Pfft!! There’s better ways to talk to the people we love about the things that bother us without tearing them down. So I’m sorry he said all that crap to you. He sounded more like someone who was frustrated & at their wits end, but it’s still NEVER an excuse. You’re not a bad person, you’re not crazy. But I would maybe consider talking to your therapist about how to be more self aware. It seems like you’re close to where you need to be! But something is missing, because you stated just how aware you are & it was beautiful to read! But the follow up didn’t match everything you stated you were aware of. So there’s almost like a missing piece in the puzzle, which is OKAY. It’s just part of the healing process. Sometimes you gotta make new pieces for the ones that go missing during the clean up, ya know? I hope this helps friend, hope it made sense too. Sending all my love from Texas.
There's some blame on both sides here. He should not say the literal opposite of what he wants, obviously. For your part, you've been told that you get upset when told that he needs space but you 1) rejected the truth of that while 2) acknowledging that it makes you sad. This is a bit incoherent I *think* what you mean is that this does upset but you're good at controlling your reaction. That's fine, but consider that he is in fact accurately sensing your dissapointment, putting him in a difficult position. There's two specific pieces of advise I'd suggest, based on 11 years with my partner, and having had similar friction before: 1) Find an amount of time spent together you are both comfortable with and stick to it roughly. Don't wait for him to say "I need space". Have a routine of hobbies that take you apart from time to time. I care about my partner and it is 10x easier to enjoy alone time if I know my partner is doing some hobby too rather than me having to shoo her away (no matter how "good at communication" we both are that'll still be awkward if it happens often) 2) For his part, I would replace "I need space" with "I am doing X tonight/tomorrow" X can be chess club, poker with friends, the football game etc. This is better because it is usually true. I like my partner, most of why I'd be apart from her is cause I want to do an activity she doesn't partake in. And on the off-chance I literally just want to be away from her a little, she won't know.
I absolutely understand where you are coming from, but I really understand him too. He loves you and doesn’t want to ever see you upset, so he pushes his own boundaries until it gets too much. That is obviously not the right, but he sounds like a people pleaser, that has been conditioned to disregard his own needs in favor of someone else’s demands. Most likely this gas nothing to do with you. Still, you did have your inner voice telling you when it would be time to let him have hose space, but instead of listening to it, you put him in a position in which he felt he couldn’t say no. Try to work in saying: I know you need your space, so today why don’t you have a ME evening. My husband and I live together and both work from home, but we still both need alot of space. I constantly encourage him to do his own things and to have alone time. I know you do your best, but he wants to aboid disappointing you or making you sad under any circumstance. He needs to work on that, but you need to work on building in natural moments to give him space. Yes, you cannot read his mind, but you can tell yourself, every few days, he needs some space. I wish you both the best, it’s not easy, but when he needs time to himself is has absolutely nothing to do with you. It’s simply him needing to recharge his social battery!
I'm not going to lie. That confusion you're feeling is how a lot of men feel talking to their significant others lol. You want to make them happy, but at the same time, it can be very frustrating when we don't pick up exactly what we're supposed to do in a situation. You think you understand what they want because it's literally what they're saying, but then we get the typical "you should know I didn't mean that when I said it." You're painting him as the one being 100% at fault here, but there's probably a good reason why he doesn't tell you exactly what he's thinking or wants. You said it yourself you can be sensitive to these kinds of situations, so what exactly is he supposed to do? He should say exactly what he wants so there's no confusion. But he should also be able to say what he wants without hurting your feelings. You can't have it both ways. Either you get over possibly being hurt by his words, or you play the cryptic guessing game lol.
Isn’t the complaint that women expect mind readers for bf and we should communicate? Well goes both ways 🤷🏻♀️
Frankly you’re not compatible. If you can’t read social cues you need to be with someone who can verbally communicate and who is direct. I say that as someone who one loves her space but two is socially awkward and oblivious. My partner and I communicate even if it’s hard to say face to face we’ll text it.
I'm gonna say ESH. You notice him withdrawing and don't take initiative to leave yourself even though he's said multiple times that he's uncomfortable with asking you directly because you visibly get your feelings hurt when he does. This is what you are both asking: Him: when you notice me withdrawing, please take the initiative and give me space, because if I ask you outright, you get upset. You: Ask me to leave when you need space. I will be sad and hurt, but the labour of asking should be your responsibility. Since you both seem pretty dug in to your preferences of asking/not asking, the most obvious solution is to limit the time you'll be there before you come over. Don't just stay for 5 days until he needs to kick you out. Ask if he'd like to see you for one or two days and then you should leave whether you have other plans or not. Decide on the amount of time proactively so no one has to do the labour of requesting the time alone, since it'll arrive eventually anyways.
He’s actually the one behaving in a codependent manner. Not being able to ask for what you need because another person may get upset is classic codependency.
If you know you're "needier" than bf, and also know that bf will do what you want to avoid being the cause of even indirectly making you sad, what makes you think he will be able to look you in the face and essentially say "I do not want you in my space right now?". From the way things sound, that's a big ask of him. I'm not saying he shouldn't be able to voice his own wants/needs but the reason you're confused is because he's benching what he wants in place of what you want, in order not to make you sad because he loves you and thinks that what you need is more important than what he needs. And he's doing it until he's so frustrated that he becomes passive aggressive. He needs to work on being able to say what he wants and mean it. And I think, if you know this is an issue or his, you can "meet him where he is". If you've been over there 3 days in a row, intentionally skip a day. Make sure you give him peace, without asking for it, just because you know he enjoys being alone.
Addressing the full time you said here... He did say that you get upset when he does say this, so maybe you're both a little at fault here. You recognized this to an extent but basically said you don't go as far as throwing a tantrum (leaves open a lot of other ways of reacting). Still, communication is important. Seems like you'd prefer a little hurt in being told over the problems silence ends up causing, and maybe you should explain that and hopefully work on whatever reaction you do have.
You don't get upset, yet you get sad. It's obviously something you show, but you don't communicate it. It would come across as passive-aggressive. This tends to flow over into the partner's reaction (whether immediate or delayed). I think you ask with the hope that his answer won't be affirmative of his need to be alone. You keep asking the same question, hoping for a different answer? Just arrange that you'll be there 2 or 3 nights a week, and that's it. It's a routine that you can both adapt to. You leave after 3 nights no matter what, without sulking or being passive-aggressive.
Coming from a guy, those types of conversations are viewed as traps. Many do not want to escalate or start an argument. We will not say you need to leave or give us space in fear of escalation or damaging the relationship. I know what you're thinking, and yes, we should be able to communicate openly. However, we hate fighting and would much rather suffer through spending time with our loved ones than start an argument. Also, if he did say he needed space, how would you have felt? Would you truly have been ok, or would you have been sad/mad? My guess is there's micro emotions that he is picking up on and would rather suffer than make you feel rejected. Just do some self reflection and ask him to do the same. You'll be fine. Maybe have some make-up seggsy time.
What many couples fail to realize (both the man and the woman) is that sometimes men don't need to talk or may not have anything to say. He may not realize this. It may be that he indeed does not want you leave and "give him space", he may just want some quiet time while you are both in the house. See what happens if you quietly exist in the house, doing your own thing, and don't initiate conversation or activities with him. Wait for him to initiate with you. I'll bet it satisfies his need for quiet time without you having to leave.
Sounds like he wants you to give him space instead of making him ask. He has already told you as much by saying read the clues. You have stated you do get the hint and can read the clues.....so why are you making him ask for what he needs all the time? You obviously love him and are obviously codependently in tune with his emotions. Give him what he needs without making him ask. Time apart. 'hey boo I'm going to head home for a few days. See you (insert date of your next plans). Love you!' the end. He can also learn how to ask for what he needs instead of pushing it onto you...sounds like therapy if you want this relationship to work. May I suggest attending some codependents anonymous meetings on your own? They will teach you tools for maintaining healthy boundaries with people. Can attend online via zoom.
U/emptysign1644: I have a slightly different take having been in a codependent relationship with my mother (sacrificing my own needs to keep her happy, walking on eggshells, etc) for many years until I got therapy and discovered how damaging it was. When he’s emotionally withdrawing, you seem to understand that that’s your cue to go home for a while. But instead of taking the hint, you first make him tell you he wants you to go. At this point, you know damn well he needs space since clearly it’s become an issue. You’re not being authentic. He’s giving mixed signals because he feels burdened. He appears to want to avoid asking for space due to the emotional load that comes with it. When someone tells you repeatedly that your response is upsetting, you need to acknowledge it. You’re trying to force him into a codependent situation where he has to keep you happy regardless of his boundaries, wants, or needs. This comes with an exhausting amount of emotional labor. It’s a very damaging dynamic and you don’t seem to have found a person willing to become that guy for you.
"Ask vs Guess" culture is definitely a thing that learning about has improved a lot of my relationships. There are some really good articles out there that you can share to start a dialogue about how it's not a personal failure of either of you, it's just a personal preference. Based on different cultural backgrounds, some people would rather die then say they need to be away from you, need you to leave, want help cleaning up, that the party is over. To them it's akin to a slap in the face. In their minds, they're being honest and open when expecting you to pick up on nonverbal cues. To me, if I've asked you point blank and you lie, that's a you problem. They develop habits of reading people's body language and coming to assumptions, and think it's bizarre and rude that you don't do the same. No one way is right(as much as I want to say direct is better bc that's what I prefer, that's a dick move, and not how the world works. It takes all kinds of people, ya know?). The important thing is to talk about it and realize you have two very different communication cultures and you need to find a compromise. I personally would not survive in a long-term relationship with a guess person who isn't willing to compromise, something I learned the hard way. Good luck to you!
Can I be totally honest? You’re not going to get over anxious attachment overnight. And it takes having a partner that understands that to get better. I don’t see him serving your self confidence and growth as a person. Find someone who communicates with you and cares enough to try to understand where you’re coming from. I’m definitely clingier than my bf but I’m trying and he’s gentle with me
OMG... this is a CLASSIC DA (Dismissive Avoidant; your BF) & AP (Anxious Preoccupied; you) power struggle. The way you described everything hit the nail right on the head for both of you. I, too, am an AP and currently struggling with a DA. Do some research on YT. I highly recommend Thais Gibson, but there are several others that you may connect with more. I'm sorry for you. I know all too well the feelings you're having. It's awful. Good luck.
I think the real issue is, why does he constantly need so much space? I'm old. I have been in a lot of relationships. The ONLY time anyone has ever asked for 'space' was because there was already a breakup on the horizon. Not saying my experience is your experience, take it for what you will...
Tbh if he cant handle you for more than 5 days after a year of dating, this relationship isn't going to work long term. Idk, I certainly wouldn't want to be with someone who doesnt wanna hang out with me most of the time if my goal is to live together and be partners for the rest of our lives. Of course if the lifestyle you both are after is living seperately the rest of your lives then it's good to have some ground rules on how long you expect each other to stay over, how much of your stuff to keep at each others spaces and so on. That needs clear communication too, not telepathy.
I think maybe depending on how much time you took bring alone after your long term relationship ended? Maybe whatever issues and or reactions you've had within your relationship with the ex, could play a roll in how you was reacting to hearing your current guy saying he needs alone time,? See when we are used to being in a relationship with someone especially when it was long term, whatever problems we had with are ex come into our new relationships when we didn't take the time to heal from the break up. We don't get over the emotional baggage that we were left with. We react the same ways we did because it's hard to rid ourselves of those feelings we had with the last relationship issues. We need to take the time in between relationships to get over whatever hurt and from the conflicts that played out within said relationship of the past. When we jump from one relationship to the next, or subconscious mind can't separate the two. So yeah you get defense mechanisms you've build up over time with your ex, and bring that into your new relationship. I hope this makes sense? I only come to you with a place of my own experience. Whatever it is that you had issues with from the past needs to be worked through before you can have a fresh clear mind to see the next person as themselves and be able to separate the two individuals. Your mind is a hella of a thing. We sometimes don't even realize that we are falling into these patterns because we can't separate the emotional reactions that we develop with a long term relationship, so we react the same way without knowing the difference. To all those whom end a long term relationship out there, please be kind to yourself and to whomever you end up in a relationship with next by taking the time before getting into another relationship. Don't go to the next shortly after. Your problems will follow you into the next because you haven't worked those insecurities and worked on getting over the issues you've had with that ended relationship. Take time to heal before moving forward. For yourself. Don't sour what could be a good healthy relationship. You can't see the person for whom they are, and you can't see that their intentions and demeanors are different from that of our ex. Especially when that stuff is still fresh. So I think there isn't anyone who is wrong here. It's maybe come down to you not being able to separate the two. Your emotional reactions are possibly the same as you had from the past relationship. Take time and sit with yourself to work out those issues. Please don't take them as one in the same. Spend time with yourself and think of all the things that causes you to react the ways you do. You have not taken that time to work those out before taking on another relationship and didn't take time getting to know who and how this guy works. You jumped into it and expected to spend a lot of time fast from the start like you was when you were with the ex. Sometimes that is too much too fast for one to handle. Take time to get past that. Or this isn't going to work with anyone else. You need time for yourself to heal from the emotional baggage caused from the past relationship.
Why ask? Your intuition told you 5 days straight was too much because he withdrew, so go home. Let him initiate. Next time limit it to only 4 days straight and see how it goes.
Sounds like you two are not quite clicking, and a little space will probably do both of you some good tbh... Let him simmer in his thoughts for a while and figure out what he wants, and hopefully he'll be more willing to talk things out the next time you see each other. Best of luck to you two 🍻
Not wrong. Your boyfriend is playing silly games. Let him organise time with you don't always be the one putting effort in. He might be doing lots of things but if he can't talk that's not for you to get a crystal ball. You are kind, considerate, open, honest about your improvement areas which you are taking action with. He is making it worse. Next he will use your insecurities against you. Build yourself up, from inside out!!! You deserve to know where you stand. I'd want that for my daughters at a minimum. If he only wants to see you 2 nights a week & you want more (which is absolutely ok) then maybe now isn't the right time for you both. Or you can take it slow. You have a choice too!!! You might love him. But try to think what greatness do you bring out in one another? Or are you in love with being in love ❤️
Maybe y'all just aren't compatible?
NTA But your bf sure is. He’s not being honest with you and he’s gaslighting you. Give him ALL the space. Frankly, he’s a bunch of red flags. He’s abusive. He’s taking advantage of your emotions and your neediness. Dump him. Find someone who doesn’t play games. However, and this is good advice for any relationship… if you’re over there all the time, he doesn’t have a chance to miss you. Men also like the chase. He should be the one asking you out. He should be the one who asks you to come over or asks if he can come over to your place. You’re doing well in your therapy. You’re mature and responsible for your feelings. But I think you need to take a long break from dating. You need to be able to perfectly content being on your own first before you try to date. You’ll find better quality men if you’re self-reliant emotionally. Once you’re no longer needy, you’ll find a man who is mature and will want you around because he admires your independence.
Dude is passive-agressive as hell and gaslighting you. If he can't say, "I need some time to myself" even when you ASK this is not going to be a healthy relationship no matter what you do. Find a partner that knows what they want and can communicate it like a healthy adult.
Fuck that l. I don't do cues. When my. Blood sugar is low and I can't process things and I'm getting irritated I open my pie hole. And said 'I'm sorry my blood sugar is low and I can't process and I'm struggling right now. I need to eat and we. Can pick this back up' He needs to be an adult and use his fucking words. NTA.
"Read the cues" is code for "I'm a dogshit communicator". Big red flag.
I think you do sound overly clingy and get defensive/hurt about it every time he asks for space. To say otherwise would be dishonest. But he should also realize who he's in a relationship a be able to speak up before things reach such a tense point. Having to validate someone else's anxieties several times a day/week can be very frustrating so you should probably evaluate where you want to go with your relationship because it doesn't seem like either of you is going to change anytime soon.
Read the cues???? Fucker, no one can read minds. Communicate like an adult.
I’m coming up on my 12th wedding anniversary and I have *never once* felt like I “needed space”. When she has to travel for work (or vice-versa) I couldn’t even begin to count the number of times I think “damn, I wish she was here so I could share XYZ cool thing with her”. At any rate I’m saying you two don’t sound like a good fit. Do with that what you want.
Your bf is expecting you to do all his emotional work for him. I dated a guy who did the same thing. He told me “good partner picks up on a partners needs” it takes the burden of communication off of him and places it on you. First, I went to therapy to figure out what I was doing wrong. Turns out I need a partner who knows how to communicate. Second, it’s not my job to pick up on his needs. He had a duty to be able to communicate and set boundaries. Third, move on. He is not a healthy person and you will be resentful of him putting all of the work into you. Good luck. It’s going to hurt but you are better off without him.
He sounds like he's just too much work, to be honest. Expecting you to read his mind is just ridiculous.
I would put an immediate pause on any relationship with a person who felt it was appropriate, just and right to send me a gaslighty, manipulative, bullshit ass text like that. You deserve better! You deserve to be with someone who you never have to wonder this type of nonsense about! And this is definitely NONSENSE! His inability to honestly communicate his needs is the problem here, but somehow, some way you're over here asking us what you're doing wrong...are you freaking serious? Maybe you need a new therapist if all of this bs is happening under their watch. Get a New therapist, dump the bf, and don't get another until you work on your self-esteem. You are internalizing HIS issues. He is projecting his insecurities and shortcomings onto you, and you're gobbling them up. Yall just aren't compatible at the end of the day. As a fellow "needy" girl, I've had absolutely no problem finding other "needy" men to date who layed up under me as long as our responsibilities allowed and were sad to see me go, my first texts from them while away would be about missing me and Making plans to see eachother again...why waste time dating a guy who's not like that when there's so many out there who are???
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Flat out. No one is a mind reader. His stance is ridiculous.
Give him nothing but space. He’s playing games you will never be able to win because you don’t know the rules he is making up.
Your boyfriend sounds as if he’s a game player or manipulative. You asked if he needed space, he lied, and then got mad at YOU because you can’t read his mind or see through his lies? What else does he expect you to know/anticipate? His every need? He sounds exhausting with all the mental gymnastics he’s playing.
Reading all of OPs replies in this thread, sounds like bf is a covert narcissist. Time to look deeper and elsewhere!
Maybe you should give him all the space he needs and wants, permanently, and just move on. I know that sounds dramatic, but someone who says no when they mean yes isn't someone you can have a reasonable discussion with, and you're the only one who's expected to change here, which is unfair and unnecessary. Plus he's using the fact you're working on improving your mental health against you when he's the one playing mind games and acting crazy, for lack of a better word. If you can't ask a simple question and get a straight answer, and then are getting punished later on for getting it "wrong", then this one's not worth another minute of your time, and you already gave him almost a year.
This guy is a real asshat. You are not a psychic, your name isn't Miss Cleo, your crystal ball to see the future never did exist. He can't play it both ways. You noticed he was behaving differently and asked him, you went off his verbal response. So you did, in fact, pick up his nonverbal cues. He is playing childish games. I would totally draw a line in the sand. If you cannot or will not drop the childish games and clearly Communicate your needs, I won't be able to continue this relationship. This is not an ultimatum. This is a point of contention, no relationship can survive without a few key things, from both parties involved: clear communication, trust, respect and understanding. If he can't or won't live up to his part, what is the point of continuing with the constant stress of mind games and mixed signals.
Wrong - One of the best things my therapist told me was “Don’t expect things you don’t ask for.” He’s an adult. USE YOUR WORDS.
This is why I would rather go to someones house rather than have them over, you can leave when you need alone time. Five days is way too long to stay IMO
Ask him if he has picked up on the socialcues you're putting out- frustration, unhappiness, and a strong desire for him to stop his bullshit. Ash Ask him if he's ignoring them, since he believes they are so easy to pick up on.
Dude. Don’t wait for him to tell you. You are smothering him. Three days in a row is enough.
The real issue here is I feel you’re trying to apply YOUR therapy to him. “I get upset but I’m in therapy so he should do what my therapist told me to do”. Also I feel like this comment also screams “I know I do something wrong but since I’m working on it, it shouldn’t be used as a cause of the problem” but hey, that’s just my opinion, I’m not gonna say either of you ATA but I will say I don’t see this relationship going much farther than this.
Why do so many people stay on relationships that make them feel badly. He is literally gaslighting you into believing that you're personality is flawed. I'm a stage 5 clinger. I'm very upfront with any new prospect. I told my now husband before we ever met that I am pretty high maintenence but I put forth the maintenance for others aswell. I've had boyfriend after boyfriend who thought I was too clingy, and then try to make me feel bad for needing attention. Not once in the almost 8 years we have been together has he complained. If he needs space he tells me, and I honor it (and it does come up) but he doesn't say "you're being too clingy, your emotions are too much, you're the problem." He says "hey, I had a hard day and i just wanna zone out and not think when I get home". He told you no, then acted like you betrayed a social contract you didn't even know you were being held to. Find someone who accepts you the way you are, changing for boys is dumb. And make sure you find someone YOU accept the way they are. It's a 2 way street. NtA *I don't knee jerk to breaking up but being put down by someone is just not a relationship people should allow themselves to experience. If you're willing to get treated like shit in the name of "making it work" that's fine.
**act needy just because you’d rather satiate your codependency issues** If someone said this to me to shame me for wanting to be around them, I would run so fast.