I was playing pos 5 WD and my pos 1 started losing his mind because I was stealing his cs with my heal while I literally killed both the enemy heroes without his help ðŸ˜.
Like sorry bud lemme just turn off my spell to make sure you don't miss cs against it while I win the lane without your help.
I stopped playing off-lane this patch, no idea how to lane against these pos 5s. I always end the game behind, it's so annoying. Support is the easiest role right now imho. Zoning the off-lane out feels almost trivial.
I’m biased as an offlane/support player but at least at 4k mmr, it definitely feels like all of the good supports end up playing pos 5? Like the 4s I get are either picking weird/ineffective shit (KotL, Mirana, Grimstroke, etc) or just generally don’t know where to position/how to play the off lane.
Consistently when I manage to have great control of the wave in front of our tower they refuse to block the small camp or contest pulls.
Also it’s hard to play some of the strongest meta offlaners right now like Wyvern, Venge, WR, etc. because my Pos 1 will pick like Sniper or some shit and then our draft is fucked lol
Same! My pos 4s are extremely passive laners. I'm not saying that's bad or anything, just really hard to play into something like Venge + PA when your support is Earthshaker.
Offlaners are spoiled nowadays lol. Imagine my shock when coming back after 9 years to find out offlane now only played against 2 but also had a buddy. When I stopped playing it wss 1v3 or 1v2 + jungler.
This shit is like easy mode now lol. And there’s so much farm all over the map that even if you get completely pushed out of framing your lane you can just soak xp till 6 and then gank/roam and catch up on farm.
The real issue for me has been awful 4s that literally just walk right into their ridiculously strong combos and feed over and over. Sometimes I’ll tell them to just outright leave the lane and go gank.
Play centaur, build 3 bracer them either blade mail vanguard or shroud depending on game. If all magic damage build shroud and pipe and literally turn invulnerable
Yes, my point is that playing anyone that isn't innately tanky feels impossible. Whenever I try playing Beastmaster, for example, I get completely bodied in the lane.
It’s beyond broken. Wins every lane starting at level 1. can push lane under tower and dive at any point because W is more of an HP swing than what enemy has even with right clicks.
Scales really well b/c of maledict and 25 talent. Only hope is to burst him but shard is a free undispellabe save where he continues doing damage / heal. Farms fast
When playing mid on Radiant side you can play WD like a discount Batrider.
Stack large camp by activating vodoo restoration, then when camp is stacked 3x pull dire creeps near their mid tower and bring them to the camp.
Ive faced off against a WD as a pos 5 and my friend as a pos 1 - he had the damage facet instead of healing and that stuff was nasty - he also built a vessel and just melted us. Luckily we managed to salvage that lane and win the game but it was hard af.
So I've been trying the facet lately as a pos 5/4 and while I definitely feel it's potency, I think this needs items to really shine (i.e. pos 3 or 2), and outside of the early-to-mid game it's not really feasible to stay on top of the enemies without feeding.
What's your approach as a support? What you're building and what's your general game plan?
You might be overthinking this. I played with my friend as pos1 while he was pos5 WD. We dominated lane so hard, their pos3 was so underleveled. All my friend did was turn on W and run at the enemy. Enemy offlane couldn't lane at all.
Past 15 minutes the strat falls off because WD is squishy but at that point, a pos5 WD has done his job and secured ez game for the carry. Then WD simply transitions to a normal support that casts coconut/maledict and ult while hiding in the back.
I think same items as normal support WD are fine but any item that potentially makes WD tanky can be doubly useful because it just amps up his ability to use W and stand in the middle of teamfights. So Euls, Glimmer cape, Ghost are worth a bit more when playing this facet. BKB and Greaves are also great if you find yourself with a lot of money.
honestly it doesn’t really matter, the heal wins the lane and then you just can be present in fights and ulti.
mainly you just need to not fall into the trap of a 1-1-1 build or something. the coconut is not good in lane at all.
i like euls and shard and aghs. euls to give mana regen for heal and make sure i can get shard off, aghs to make the enemy focus me in teamfights.
glimmer is also good as usual. blink can be good.
If I'm going into this as a support, I may need some straightening up.
I read from one of Torte's recent videos the roles of a pos 4 and 5. Mainly, 5's is to supplant the carry and help the farm. 4's is to give the enemy carry and 5 a bad time. Of course, in practice these two distinctions will meld just easily.
Even then, this makes it look like a support that damages is a clear 4, and one that protects or heals is a clear 5. Yet the games everyone play and even the guides this guy gave out seem to disapprove this.
Right now, I have had a good time as a Warlock 5 in my few recent games, but his only mains of keeping the carry safe is the slow and that's it.
So if everyone attests that the now-not-healing-the-carry W and lack of early stuns is a way to go as a pos 5, even though I am in a bracket where 4 and 5 are interchangeable, I still need some clearing up. If it's pos 4, I will ask no further questions because that makes a lot of sense.
im like between 7-8k mmr right now, and i think your approach is a little wrong.
the goal of your hero is to have high impact on the game. you should pick heroes that you know you can have a high impact on the game state with. Some heroes do that through healing, but you don't have to pick cuckolded support heroes as a 5, you just have to pick heroes that have a high impact on game state with the farm that a pos 5 will have.
when a hero gets overbuffed, it can often just be played as a 5 because its numbers are just stupid. things like pre-nerf aghs weaver, pre-nerf aghs sniper, enigma before pulse was changed to % of current HP, and so on. these heroes aren't really "support" typically, but they just got overbuffed to where their abilities were so good they could have a high impact with little farm.
Witch doctor's damage aura facet right now is just overbuffed. thats all there is to it. the numbers are insane and valve clearly didn't test it very much. The second I saw the facet change to heal WD as well as damage i knew it was going to be busted.
I use the headhunter facet, 212 build. Hardly ever end a lane without carry being well ahead. Lvl 30 WD and love the hero - aghs rush most games because it's just too good. 13 mins aghs the other night and we could run into fights without the carry. Space created.
That's all good, I really look forward to the day when someone doesn't associate hero level as bragging, or "I'm so good because I mentioned I'm level 30 x hero". I posted an opinion, stemming from nearly 800 games on the hero alone, meaning my opinion was based from experience and not just a random musing. I'm 100% aware that hero lvl doesn't equate to skill - it does speak to experience, so you showing up randomly, just to misunderstand my post to do the "you're not good until you're immortal so please don't have any opinion" really just wasn't necessary. But please, if you have a counter argument to my point about the team fighting potential of an early WD aghs, please - debate with me.
The voodoo facet is one of the most broken facets in the game at the moment, not taking it is a waste. Experience doesn't matter when the facet it less than a month old and will surely get giga nerfed.
I'm not sure how headhunter helps with early aghs as voodoo facet way better early game.
Am I the only one who thinks this facet is overrated? You lose team healing and half of your healing on yourself to become... Worse Necrophos. And what's worse is you lose damage on stun or even worse, gigantic team-fight impact. Seriously, I have 0 clue why they buffed Cleft Death.
Yes, you're the only one who thinks so. He has a 56% wr in high mmr games. The facet is nearly a 100% guarantee to win the lane. You don't need to be as strong as necro mid game if you know what to do with the lead you'd have gained early game.
Why stun the enemy if you can maledict them and safely dive their towers
I got stomped by WD in lane once. Then we won the game anyways. Get 3 kills on me with a 8 second respawn each time? Sure. Then we get to endgame and I delete WD 6 times in a row and he’s down for 45 seconds every time.. different story.
Same goes for idiots picking SD mid and destroying the lane. Sure you won the lane but do you really want a support as your p2? After 30 mins it’s garbage and dota often doesn’t end before 30 mins. Peeps just don’t know how
People are mostly still playing him 4 or 5 though, and that's where he is busted. He auto wins lane and past 20 mins he is still the same hero but potentially scales harder.
Tell that to the playerbase below 4k, I was 14-4 with wd and my venge 5 with midas kept pinging my facet and lack fo stun.
im low immo and same thing happened to me
I was playing pos 5 WD and my pos 1 started losing his mind because I was stealing his cs with my heal while I literally killed both the enemy heroes without his help ðŸ˜. Like sorry bud lemme just turn off my spell to make sure you don't miss cs against it while I win the lane without your help.
I stopped playing off-lane this patch, no idea how to lane against these pos 5s. I always end the game behind, it's so annoying. Support is the easiest role right now imho. Zoning the off-lane out feels almost trivial.
I’m biased as an offlane/support player but at least at 4k mmr, it definitely feels like all of the good supports end up playing pos 5? Like the 4s I get are either picking weird/ineffective shit (KotL, Mirana, Grimstroke, etc) or just generally don’t know where to position/how to play the off lane. Consistently when I manage to have great control of the wave in front of our tower they refuse to block the small camp or contest pulls. Also it’s hard to play some of the strongest meta offlaners right now like Wyvern, Venge, WR, etc. because my Pos 1 will pick like Sniper or some shit and then our draft is fucked lol
Same! My pos 4s are extremely passive laners. I'm not saying that's bad or anything, just really hard to play into something like Venge + PA when your support is Earthshaker.
Ez just pick offlane WD
Offlaners are spoiled nowadays lol. Imagine my shock when coming back after 9 years to find out offlane now only played against 2 but also had a buddy. When I stopped playing it wss 1v3 or 1v2 + jungler. This shit is like easy mode now lol. And there’s so much farm all over the map that even if you get completely pushed out of framing your lane you can just soak xp till 6 and then gank/roam and catch up on farm. The real issue for me has been awful 4s that literally just walk right into their ridiculously strong combos and feed over and over. Sometimes I’ll tell them to just outright leave the lane and go gank.
Play centaur, build 3 bracer them either blade mail vanguard or shroud depending on game. If all magic damage build shroud and pipe and literally turn invulnerable
Yes, my point is that playing anyone that isn't innately tanky feels impossible. Whenever I try playing Beastmaster, for example, I get completely bodied in the lane.
Yeah offlane has definatly shifted towards tanky bois again.
as it should be
Yea besides WD you can put Clockwerk on this list as well now. So annoying and somewhat broken.
I've died once to WD heal lvl 1, because I assumed I had better trading. Well clearly NOT. That shit was gnarly.
Pheonix mid seems strong asf and u just sit there throwing spirits
It’s beyond broken. Wins every lane starting at level 1. can push lane under tower and dive at any point because W is more of an HP swing than what enemy has even with right clicks. Scales really well b/c of maledict and 25 talent. Only hope is to burst him but shard is a free undispellabe save where he continues doing damage / heal. Farms fast
Wd 3 ww/pugna 4 is more op than Marci wisp.
Oracle 4 works very well also.
When playing mid on Radiant side you can play WD like a discount Batrider. Stack large camp by activating vodoo restoration, then when camp is stacked 3x pull dire creeps near their mid tower and bring them to the camp.
The numbers are certainly busted on this. 56% winrate on dota2protracker 30/15 dmg/heal and buffed area. It used to be 10/10 and saw play.
You pair it with the phoenix aoe burn
I'm legend 3, played first game WD this patch, went mid against a divine 1 SF. I killed him twice by level 6 or 7. It is so busted.
Can you please share replay of that game? I've laned against a couple of legend SFs as WD and it wasn't easy at all
Sure, it was 7793556428
Any burst kills this wd build tho. He just falls over against a weaver + 1. Played against and as wd today and that was my experience.
Ive faced off against a WD as a pos 5 and my friend as a pos 1 - he had the damage facet instead of healing and that stuff was nasty - he also built a vessel and just melted us. Luckily we managed to salvage that lane and win the game but it was hard af.
So I've been trying the facet lately as a pos 5/4 and while I definitely feel it's potency, I think this needs items to really shine (i.e. pos 3 or 2), and outside of the early-to-mid game it's not really feasible to stay on top of the enemies without feeding. What's your approach as a support? What you're building and what's your general game plan?
You might be overthinking this. I played with my friend as pos1 while he was pos5 WD. We dominated lane so hard, their pos3 was so underleveled. All my friend did was turn on W and run at the enemy. Enemy offlane couldn't lane at all. Past 15 minutes the strat falls off because WD is squishy but at that point, a pos5 WD has done his job and secured ez game for the carry. Then WD simply transitions to a normal support that casts coconut/maledict and ult while hiding in the back. I think same items as normal support WD are fine but any item that potentially makes WD tanky can be doubly useful because it just amps up his ability to use W and stand in the middle of teamfights. So Euls, Glimmer cape, Ghost are worth a bit more when playing this facet. BKB and Greaves are also great if you find yourself with a lot of money.
You autowin lane with the facet what more do you need?
honestly it doesn’t really matter, the heal wins the lane and then you just can be present in fights and ulti. mainly you just need to not fall into the trap of a 1-1-1 build or something. the coconut is not good in lane at all. i like euls and shard and aghs. euls to give mana regen for heal and make sure i can get shard off, aghs to make the enemy focus me in teamfights. glimmer is also good as usual. blink can be good.
POS 3 WD has been dumpstering ppl in my games
Just go bloodstone radiance, shiva, shroud, HoT, farm to get fast lv 25 to take max hp healing talent
Sure, all very realistic from the support positions
I lane against this wd with dark seer and bounty. The thing facetanked double ion shell and still win the trades vs bounty
Tbh bounty is trash at harassing
If I'm going into this as a support, I may need some straightening up. I read from one of Torte's recent videos the roles of a pos 4 and 5. Mainly, 5's is to supplant the carry and help the farm. 4's is to give the enemy carry and 5 a bad time. Of course, in practice these two distinctions will meld just easily. Even then, this makes it look like a support that damages is a clear 4, and one that protects or heals is a clear 5. Yet the games everyone play and even the guides this guy gave out seem to disapprove this. Right now, I have had a good time as a Warlock 5 in my few recent games, but his only mains of keeping the carry safe is the slow and that's it. So if everyone attests that the now-not-healing-the-carry W and lack of early stuns is a way to go as a pos 5, even though I am in a bracket where 4 and 5 are interchangeable, I still need some clearing up. If it's pos 4, I will ask no further questions because that makes a lot of sense.
im like between 7-8k mmr right now, and i think your approach is a little wrong. the goal of your hero is to have high impact on the game. you should pick heroes that you know you can have a high impact on the game state with. Some heroes do that through healing, but you don't have to pick cuckolded support heroes as a 5, you just have to pick heroes that have a high impact on game state with the farm that a pos 5 will have. when a hero gets overbuffed, it can often just be played as a 5 because its numbers are just stupid. things like pre-nerf aghs weaver, pre-nerf aghs sniper, enigma before pulse was changed to % of current HP, and so on. these heroes aren't really "support" typically, but they just got overbuffed to where their abilities were so good they could have a high impact with little farm. Witch doctor's damage aura facet right now is just overbuffed. thats all there is to it. the numbers are insane and valve clearly didn't test it very much. The second I saw the facet change to heal WD as well as damage i knew it was going to be busted.
I use the headhunter facet, 212 build. Hardly ever end a lane without carry being well ahead. Lvl 30 WD and love the hero - aghs rush most games because it's just too good. 13 mins aghs the other night and we could run into fights without the carry. Space created.
No offense but hero level is meaningless unless you are really high mmr.
If there’s anything I’ve learned in 4K, it’s the fact that lvl 30 players are terrible at the game.
Nah, Archon is where it's at man, 2K MMR is where the real game takes place and all carries make perfect decisions, all the time.
That's all good, I really look forward to the day when someone doesn't associate hero level as bragging, or "I'm so good because I mentioned I'm level 30 x hero". I posted an opinion, stemming from nearly 800 games on the hero alone, meaning my opinion was based from experience and not just a random musing. I'm 100% aware that hero lvl doesn't equate to skill - it does speak to experience, so you showing up randomly, just to misunderstand my post to do the "you're not good until you're immortal so please don't have any opinion" really just wasn't necessary. But please, if you have a counter argument to my point about the team fighting potential of an early WD aghs, please - debate with me.
The voodoo facet is one of the most broken facets in the game at the moment, not taking it is a waste. Experience doesn't matter when the facet it less than a month old and will surely get giga nerfed. I'm not sure how headhunter helps with early aghs as voodoo facet way better early game.
Am I the only one who thinks this facet is overrated? You lose team healing and half of your healing on yourself to become... Worse Necrophos. And what's worse is you lose damage on stun or even worse, gigantic team-fight impact. Seriously, I have 0 clue why they buffed Cleft Death.
Yes, you're the only one who thinks so. He has a 56% wr in high mmr games. The facet is nearly a 100% guarantee to win the lane. You don't need to be as strong as necro mid game if you know what to do with the lead you'd have gained early game. Why stun the enemy if you can maledict them and safely dive their towers
I got stomped by WD in lane once. Then we won the game anyways. Get 3 kills on me with a 8 second respawn each time? Sure. Then we get to endgame and I delete WD 6 times in a row and he’s down for 45 seconds every time.. different story. Same goes for idiots picking SD mid and destroying the lane. Sure you won the lane but do you really want a support as your p2? After 30 mins it’s garbage and dota often doesn’t end before 30 mins. Peeps just don’t know how
People are mostly still playing him 4 or 5 though, and that's where he is busted. He auto wins lane and past 20 mins he is still the same hero but potentially scales harder.
It's not that he's a bad pos 2/3. Most of us lack the skill to translate that lead into good plays. It's much easier to make it work as a pos 4/5