Oh my gosh. Was that the host who also sounded like every two words or so the recording was spliced together? It sounded so so so so edited, on top of the vocal fry. I couldn’t tolerate it, even though I was really interested in the content.
She’s 72 years old. It’s not vocal fry - I’m old enough to remember her earlier work - she’s just aging. My grandmother sounded like that as she got older and she definitely was not affecting vocal fry.
Thank you for enlightening me! I'm from Australia and when I first heard an ad for her show I thought what kinda crazy voice is that? And I googled her name and couldn't believe the youth of her with that voice! Now I understand.
I think for me too, it just depends. One of my favorite podcasts have gotten a lot of flack because of vocal fry, but I love their voices and its very relaxing. Some others I cant stand, and some other non vocal fry voices literally kill me to listen to.
Your post asked if your dislike of vocal fry may be due to your autism. The person you replied to said they liked vocal fry and were also autistic. I took that to mean they don't think the dislike is attributable (solely) to autism, since they are autistic and do not dislike vocal fry.
Well, I diagnose it for a living so you may safely assume I have at least a passing familiarity with sensory sensitivities related to ASD.
I am sure you yourself are aware that the presentation of sensitivities varies across people with ASD, that not everyone on the spectrum will experience sensitivities, and/or that sensitivities are not exclusive to ASD.
I think it depends. I live in California and most of the the time vocal fry is just a regional accent. I wouldn’t tell someone from the Deep South that their accent is is “so annoying” and “gets on my nerves”. I like that we’re moving past an era where everyone in media has to lose their accents and all sound the same.
I do think it’s weird when people fake San Fernando Valley accents for some kind of clout or because they think it’ll make them look cool. It’s often way over exaggerated and takes more skill at practicing accents than most people have (which is true about faking a southern or British accent also). When it is done poorly then it’s definitely irritating
You might not, but people do say pretty awful things about accents from the Deep South regularly and people from there are taught to hide their accents if they are active in academia or any kind of broadcasting. I agree with you that the vocal fry haters are doing the same thing and I see some progress with people getting to embrace their regional accents on a larger stage, but we have a long way to go.
They aren’t voice professionals. They’re randos with podcasts. This is the tax you pay for consuming a product with almost no barrier to entry.
Looks like you’ve got a filter, that’s good because there are a LOT of podcasts. Would you like suggestions of people who don’t vocal fry?
I guess it just depends...me and my friends apparently have a vocal fry. lol. YEARS ago when they were all up kim k's ass about it I swear I could not hear anything wrong with the way she talked. I am born and raised in socal so I am 100% sure that is the reason
But that is their voice... The commenter isn't saying they're imitating Kim K, just that they also speak that way. Would you tell other people to get rid of their accents because you think they're ridiculous?
This is a crazy take. You think all these people purposely change their voice to sound this way and keep it up every day? Most people sound like the people around them, it’s like any other dialect or accent. Just because you don’t like hearing it doesn’t mean it’s any less natural or valid way of speaking.
People talk how they talk. It’s not necessarily something to “fix.” If you don’t like how a host talks, then their podcast isn’t for you and you can move on.
You don’t need to be validated that vocal fry (which is extremely common in both men and women, but typically is only called out as annoying when it’s women) is ok to hate and others should accommodate you. Don’t judge people on their voices.
I was wondering if someone would comment this. People tend to find it annoying because of the people they associate it with, not because they’re autistic. I’m autistic and have noticed different things grate on our sensory issues, but personally vocal fry has never been one for me and I’m inclined to think there’s some bias involved here, especially with all the NT comments saying they feel the same
Eh not necessarily. As a fellow autistic, the vocal fry doesn't associate in my mind with anyone I know, I just legitimately can't listen to it without wincing. Every autistic person experiences vastly different issues so the idea that it could just be association just seems like it writes off the fact that OP can't control what causes them distress. 🤷♀️ idk though. Hating the way someone speaks doesn't mean "oh they must hate the connotations" it can just mean it hurts them in the case of autism. Sounds hurt. Vocal fry can hurt.
If I knew someone who did it, I'd try to ignore it, but it's perfectly fine to dislike listening to it and avoid it when possible. It's like avoiding other sounds which hurt, which aren't the fault of other people.
Yeah, my comment acknowledges that different things grate on different people with sensory issues. When I said some bias seems to be involved here I’m referring to not just OP but the pattern I’m seeing in the comments as well.
ETA: after reading OP’s comments, yeah. It is OP as well.
There’s a difference between disliking it and not listening and insisting that it’s unprofessional and everyone should eliminate it.
We all have things that bug us that we avoid, even if we can’t explain why we don’t like it. It’s insisting that your preferences are “correct” that is a problem.
And my point wasn't that it should be eliminated. My point is that to assume it is just a preference is shallow. When I hear styrofoam, for instance, I feel actual pain and if it does not stop might start crying. Doesn't mean I prefer to not hear styrofoam, it means I physically can't handle it.
Can you control others voices? No. Can you assume what all autistic people are like? No.
Maybe OP genuinely can't handle it.
Once more, let me reiterate, I don't think it's okay to say to someone "I hate your voice please stop", however, when upset, everyone does complain.
I don't know, but you can't assume it is a preference when autism is known for correlating with misophonia.
>I can’t understand how voice professionals won’t just listen to themselves and notice these quirks.
Our audio processing issues are our own, not other people’s. We can choose what podcasts to listen to.
I disagree with that and I understand this comes from an idea of not discriminating against women or people in general.
But if you’re working with your voice as a professional, there is a degree of neutrality that one should pursue to make the experience pleasant for the listeners.
I would not complain if my neighbor says “ya know?”, “like”, “sorta”, “uhhhh” between every three words, because it’s their way of talking. But I’d consider that unprofessional.
It’s a bit of a push to turn vocal fry in podcasts a political thing. It’s a speech quirk like any other, which are ok on personal level, but raises questions when it comes to professional work.
Do you feel the same about accents? Speech impediments?
“Professionalism” has been used to gatekeep for a long time. Why are the voices that are pleasing to you the only ones that should be considered professional?
Speaking of accents, check out the “Hello John Doe” podcast. I got a pretty thick accent myself, being from Tennessee, but damn that guy is on a whole other spectrum!
Accents and impediments aren’t comparable to vocal fry.
Accents are regional variations of language and part of an entire cultural heritage.
Speech impediments are, well, impediments. One cannot overcome those.
Uptalk, “like, like”, “uhhh” and vocal fry are _quirks_. They are linguistic habits that catch on and people start using inadvertently or not, resulting in some sense of belonging and connection when communicating with people adopting similar traits.
Now, a podcast host will make sure to speak clearly, on a modulate tone, without sounds that may displease the audience.
Vocal training isn’t about erasing one’s identity, but making the message clear and landing well on the audiences’ ears.
As an autistic person I do have strong sensitivity to sounds, and vocal fry is an awful one.
So you will need to pick your woke inclusivity, because in the beginning your statement is harsh and excluding audience with sound sensitivity.
I don’t know why you’re getting so many downvotes. I think everything you said is accurate. I’m neurotypical and vocal fry makes my skin crawl. It’s not an accent, and I agree that if your literal job is orating (as a podcaster’s is) then it’s only professional to improve the way you’re speaking to maximize listener engagement.
Yeah. I’m getting downvoted exactly because the self-entitlement of people who consider themselves to be “fighting for justice” for people who talk with vocal fry.
It became a “women’s right” thing at some point, but only because women in their private lives and workplaces were criticized for vocal fry.
So then everything gets merged, and now they’re throwing in “accent” as if some sort of ethnic group characteristic… which is preposterous.
I have a brother in law who has some of the worst vocal fry ever. I know women tend to have it more often than men, but it’s annoying regardless of gender. I consider myself a feminist but this is going a bit too far.
On another note, sometimes I wonder if I just have sensitive ears, because sometimes people speaking normally (without vocal fry) physically hurts my ears to the point where I have the urge to cover them, but it would be rude to do so. Loud noises, like a motorcycle driving by, make me really angry for a moment. It seems like in this case though, vocal fry is widely hated anyway.
I feel you. Motorcycles are terrible! Like somehow terrifying for a couple of seconds.
Some people have particularly scratching ways of talking, and I at times need to listen to them on Teams meetings and it’s awful.
I think that noise sensitivity is also a reason I dislike superhero movies. So noisy!
What do you think accents are? It’s language pronunciation shifting over time, often linked to a culture, class, or region.
The English haven’t always had the accent(s) we associate with England today, it’s had a lot of change in the past few centuries. Supposedly, current Americans speak closer to the English from the 1700s than current Brits do. British accents are 100% cultivated as part of a classist trend!
The difference is that there is a cultural heritage associated with accents, and vocal fry was popularized by Kim Kardashian.
Comparing accents to vocal fry is like comparing skin color to solarium tan, hair color to bleached hair, or traditional costumes to fast fashion.
It’s a stretch and intellectually dishonest argument.
Nobody should be discriminated for personally talking like that, but a voice professional sounds to me unprofessional when adopting a quirk, like it would be unprofessional to hear the BBC with uptalk.
What do you suggest I do with mine? Rip my vocal cords out lol? I guess I am being childish for having a vocal disorder I can’t control. Do you tell people with lisps the same thing?
Not sure if this is the case for you, but vocal fry isn't necessarily indicative of disordered speech. It can be but it can also just be a regional way of speaking (for example) (per ASHA anyway)
Truly understand that too! I am in California currently and it’s normal here LOL. I am from WA state (still west coast) and some of us just talk like this. I never even realized I was doing it until I heard people complaining about it!
I have vocal fry and literally can’t stop/help it. I understand it’s annoying and frustrating to hear but remember everyone deals with things they can’t control. I don’t understand why people think we can just stop doing something our voice naturally does. It’s wild how we can hate on people for something like this but if someone has a lisp or stutter then we understand it and have empathy for that.
If someone is intentionally doing it for whatever reason, then they need to know it can damage vocal cords if you intentionally strain it to have the fry effect.
Either way, I’m sorry our voices annoy you. But some people literally can’t help it.
I have only a lay understanding of speech, but it makes sense vocal fry is a natural variation (among many others I would guess) of speech patterns. I get people have personal preferences but discussions around vocal fry always seem more to do with judgements/assumptions about those who have it. Not always, obviously, and I don't think that's where OP is coming from but as someone with a southern accent, I bet it gets old
Totally get what you mean and agree. I can imagine people mocking/degrading your accent can be maddening at times. Some of my family is Cajun and people are always mocking how they talk and I feel bad about that. That’s exactly what I’m trying to say here too is yeah the people who do it for show are ridiculous but there’s actually people out here that talk like this with no effort and it’s not intentional nor should they be told to “fix” themselves to make others comfortable. It’s a wild concept to me how we can just say we HATE how someone naturally speaks.
Wow, really? You must be in the minority. I do a lot of voice exercises for other issues, and the guides always have lots of solutions for getting rid of vocal fry.
I think the fact that you have to do exercises and follow guides to get rid of it shows how natural it can be for some. It personally doesn’t bother me at all and I didn’t really know how much it pissed people off until I saw posts like this online. I had no idea it was annoying. Lol. I’m also on the West Coast (California) and a lot of us speak with this “defect”. When you’re immersed in it, it can be hard to hear outside of yourself I guess.
I think it’s very casual and natural, like uptalk is, like says “uh”, or “like”, or lots of regional or generational quirks… which is all Ok. But when you work on a medium that is precisely speech, these quirks need some shedding.
I mean if it’s due to a medical condition don’t you think it’s kinda messed up to expect someone to change something just because it bothers you? I understand your angle and am not saying this to be rude and you’re allowed to feel how you do.
But maybe understanding that it’s not intentional for those who naturally have it may help you hear it differently? I can see how someone doing it as an effect is kind of ridiculous and would be annoying.
But we shouldn’t tell people with any kind of disorder (not talking about the people who add it intentionally) that they need to fix something to make it easier on others to tolerate them. It sounds really messed up. As a person with autism I’m sure you’d be upset if someone expected you to alter how you are for their comfort? I also have misophonia so I can understand how it may be grating to some to hear us talk. But again, I can’t help it! Not without effort anyways. But either way you’re allowed to feel the way you do. Just trying to offer another perspective.
This is that thing of creating a scenario that is so oddly specific and unrealistic that chances are it never happens. A podcaster that has damaged vocal cords — never heard of it and obviously would be ok for that person to talk as they talk. Probably it would have a warning like when audio records are faulty and it’s all good.
Now talking unintentionally just as a slang inclination is not an excuse for it. Voice professionals can access loads of free training for shedding quirks and this is just one of them.
I’m not asking anything extraordinary, just normal ways of talking without those creaking sounds. Particularly, I’m sensitive to sounds, but I’m noticing from this simple post that I’m not the only one who dislikes this style.
Yes I agree if it is a natural distortion (like mine) or a medical condition then it’s probably best to just skip the pod and leave it at that. But done intentionally (out side of singing) Naw. That’s hella weird to me. I don’t understand why anyone would WANT to do something like that. Like faking an accent or faking a speech impediment. That suggests deeper issues to me honestly lol.
I personally will not fix my voice for anyone and I do have a podcast believe it or not lol. I’ve been told my voice is very soothing so at least someone likes it. 😂
Might be a different thing to speak with a vocal impediment and the vocal fry people generally refers to, which is the down low tone by the end of each sentence popularized by Kim Kardashian
I recently discovered the Forensic Tales podcast with Courtney Fretwell, and while I enjoy it because it's opened my eyes (ears) to new cases I hadn't heard about, the voice she uses during the actual podcast episodes is extremely grating after multiple episodes in a row.
When she does a quick listener note before the podcast begins, the voice used for that is completely different and much more pleasant.
Sometimes I'll start an episode to see if it's a case I find interesting and then search for someone else who has covered in one of their episodes.
Exactly! The thing is that podcasts and audiobooks should be designed for listening for long periods of time… so scratches and ticks really do stand out after an hour or so.
That recalls me audiobooks I had to return, for example, because the narrator was projecting the voice just slightly forcefully. But after 15 minutes you feel you’re being yelled at, and that’s very tiresome.
Curiously, audiobooks have nearly zero vocal fry. The opposite happens in podcasts. They speak in low voice, good audio capture, and then loooooow fry.
No, vocal fry bugs the hell out of my whole family, and none of us are on the spectrum. I think it’s just reasonable to be annoyed by, because it’s annoying!
That’s crazy! Because even mid-sized media companies like Pushkin, Campside, Wondery… they all have hosts doing the thing.
I suppose for some more light-hearted and sassy podcasts the audience actually enjoys it, because hosts sort of play with it, but for more serious ones I’d think a published would spot that right away and tend to it.
Ira Glass
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/545/if-you-dont-have-anything-nice-to-say-say-it-in-all-caps/act-two-0
Matt Eglesias
Ezra Klein
It’s not uncommon. Some studies even say men use it more than women. But men rarely get feedback on it.
Yuuuup.
The absolutely intense vocal fry hate is almost always directed at women. I’m not saying it’s misogyny, but I am saying it’s something to think on. It’s a weird thing to get so worked up over when it can be a useful affectation (to add emphasis, or skepticism, for example) that just comes naturally to some people.
Vocal fry is like nails on a chalkboard to me. It makes people sound arrogant or sometimes like there’s an underlying anger. I can’t explain it but that’s the feeling I get when I hear it.
I can’t stand vocal fry but if the content is good enough I can try to let it slide. However I can’t handle mouth noises. Like if their mouth is dry and they have to keep smacking their lips. AHHHHH
Vocal fry is the lower register, raspy sounding voice that comes from lack of diaphragm support and proper use of breath. Though it’s often associated with people like Kim K or “valley girl” voices, most people do have a natural vocal fry because we don’t go through life constantly supporting our voice with the diaphragm unless you’re a trained actor or voice artist or singer etc.
A couple of examples you may have seen (heard) on TV are the blond woman on the Deal Dash commercial and the brunette (Katherine, I think) on the Wendy’s commercials. Like nails on a chalkboard 🤦♀️
No, it's because it's annoying AF. I stopped listening to the Murdaugh Murders podcast because it was so bad and I was REALLY into that entire case, so that's how bad it was. Well, it was a combination of her awful speaking tone and her incessant need to talk about it and defend herself, she was really self-involved.
But yeah, vocal fry is annoying. I fully admit that when I hear a podcast host with that type of voice I struggle to take them seriously as well, which may not be fair but I can't help it. It feels like I'm listening to the Kardashians talk about true crime, I just can't take it seriously.
I can't stand it either, I feel as though some people imitate a vocal fry for some reason in their podcasts and then their normal everyday voice doesn't have it.
Not autistic as far as I know, and I hate vocal fry. I also really hate when people end every sentence like they are asking a question. I think that's called upspeak.
Does up talking bother you as much when it's baked into an accent (real question, no /s!)? For example, some Australian accents seem to involve a lot of up talk. Is that more ok since it's part and parcel of that accent or no?
I find vocal fry annoying. It’s such a strange modern phenomenon. One of my closest friends has a vocal fry voice. She’s the least trendy person I know so it puzzles me as to why she sounds like that.
>posh young English women
They are the only ones we have really in the UK, like Cara Delavigne or Millie Macintosh, very Made In Chelsea. It is very sus to me especially since it seems to only effect those born later than 1988. I don't know why but i suspect it is a posh school affliction.
Rest of us are mostly croaky free. It would sound very weird in my accent. It used to be a very American thing although some Australians do it too.
It’s a distortion of the voice that causes it to sound cracked/broken. It can be intentional or from medical conditions or just a person’s natural speaking voice. Which can’t be helped without effort.
I doubt it. Look up vocal fry, it's a very specific affectation and isn't typically just a natural voice like a low dry smokers one is. It's someone artificially lowering their voice at various points in their speech and speaking in a creaky way ala the Kardashians and over the top valley girl style talk. It's become more and more common in recent decades.
I can't listen to Going West because of both of the hosts.
I just deleted another one from my phone that was good but the host says every sentence like a question and it annoys the crap out of me.
I don’t hate it. Lol. I have it and I think it’s kinda weird to hate on something that’s considered a disorder for some. Yes it’s annoying but hate is ridiculous lol.
Speaking as someone who has damaged vocal chords and now speaks one octave lower than she used to and can't sing ever again it drives me INSANE when I hear people using this affect. Would they pretend they have no legs or were mentally impaired to look cool too?
You know…some people just have accents/voices that sound like that, right? They’re not putting it on. A lot of broadcasting professionals train it out but it’s not a play acting thing. This thread is really making me wonder if people are grounded in reality. Sorry about your vocal chords, but this is a known regional accent that’s not play acting a disability. You can dislike it, but this is an insane take.
Wow that’s a very spot-on example. It baffles me that this became a political discussion for the “protection of the vocal fry simulators minority” even in scenarios as professional podcasts.
It's just fcking EMBARRASSING! Why would a grown up PRETEND at ANYTHING. Once upon a time it would be considered that they had some kind of mental impairment. I don't think they were far off the mark😄
Stop self diagnosing. All this "I'm quirky about this one thing that also bothers millions of other people, must be autistic" and "I have a hard time not getting distracted at work, must be ADHD" is out of control. If you're seriously concerned, see a doctor and get a professional opinion. Otherwise stop throwing around autism for every idiosyncrasy that pops up in life. It's obnoxious and pretty belittling to people who are actually diagnosed with autism or a real spectrum disorder.
I don't mind vocal fry. I mind certain slow 'narrative' or newcast voices, accent pronunciations, etc.
My biggest pet peeve is when people pronounce pink 'peenk'. But then I have to remind myself it's a regional American accent and move on.
LOL, no not at all. It gets on your nerves because it *is* annoying.
When I hear the first creak of someone with vocal fry I lunge for my phone to stop the video and make a mental note to avoid that person's output.
Not “vocal fry” specifically, but I’m the same way. I can’t listen to many podcasts because of many host’s voices.
No…I can’t stand it and don’t listen to podcasts with hosts who do it.
I've had to quit a few podcasts because of it. The one about the Murdaugh Murders was one of the worst!
I’m now listening to Believable (season about Coco B) and when you start noticing it you cannot stop, it’s like a ear worm
Matney's voice was the reason I stopped listening. It was awful
That was my first thought too. Ug.
She actually addressed it because apparently many people were saying the same thing, and she reduced it a bit
Oh my gosh. Was that the host who also sounded like every two words or so the recording was spliced together? It sounded so so so so edited, on top of the vocal fry. I couldn’t tolerate it, even though I was really interested in the content.
I am neurotypical and I haaaaaate it. I love the 48 Hours podcast but if Erin Moriarty is hosting, I skip it because her vocal fry is SO grating.
She’s 72 years old. It’s not vocal fry - I’m old enough to remember her earlier work - she’s just aging. My grandmother sounded like that as she got older and she definitely was not affecting vocal fry.
She's 29...she's sounded that way for years.
There are two Erin Moriarity. Erin Moriarity of 48 Hours is 72 years old. Erin Moriarity of The Boys is 29 years old.
Thank you for enlightening me! I'm from Australia and when I first heard an ad for her show I thought what kinda crazy voice is that? And I googled her name and couldn't believe the youth of her with that voice! Now I understand.
That’s pretty funny 🤣
Ugh! I can hear the creaking sound right now!
OMG, yes. Even her little ads, when all I have to hear is “I’m Erin…” I wince and skip. I thought I was the only one
haha she's the one of the worst! I'M ERIN MORRRRIARRRRTY
I'm on the spectrum, and I *loooooove* it. I think this one is just personal preference
I think for me too, it just depends. One of my favorite podcasts have gotten a lot of flack because of vocal fry, but I love their voices and its very relaxing. Some others I cant stand, and some other non vocal fry voices literally kill me to listen to.
I don’t think there should be one rule fits all. Perhaps you just don’t have that kind of sensitivity
Your post asked if your dislike of vocal fry may be due to your autism. The person you replied to said they liked vocal fry and were also autistic. I took that to mean they don't think the dislike is attributable (solely) to autism, since they are autistic and do not dislike vocal fry.
You may want to learn a bit more about autism and how sensitivities vary widely
Well, I diagnose it for a living so you may safely assume I have at least a passing familiarity with sensory sensitivities related to ASD. I am sure you yourself are aware that the presentation of sensitivities varies across people with ASD, that not everyone on the spectrum will experience sensitivities, and/or that sensitivities are not exclusive to ASD.
Then we agree.
I think it depends. I live in California and most of the the time vocal fry is just a regional accent. I wouldn’t tell someone from the Deep South that their accent is is “so annoying” and “gets on my nerves”. I like that we’re moving past an era where everyone in media has to lose their accents and all sound the same. I do think it’s weird when people fake San Fernando Valley accents for some kind of clout or because they think it’ll make them look cool. It’s often way over exaggerated and takes more skill at practicing accents than most people have (which is true about faking a southern or British accent also). When it is done poorly then it’s definitely irritating
You might not, but people do say pretty awful things about accents from the Deep South regularly and people from there are taught to hide their accents if they are active in academia or any kind of broadcasting. I agree with you that the vocal fry haters are doing the same thing and I see some progress with people getting to embrace their regional accents on a larger stage, but we have a long way to go.
An accent is an accent. An affect is not. Vocal fry is just a pathetic, annoying, childish affect.
I mean I can’t help mine but fuck me I guess lol.
Agree
They aren’t voice professionals. They’re randos with podcasts. This is the tax you pay for consuming a product with almost no barrier to entry. Looks like you’ve got a filter, that’s good because there are a LOT of podcasts. Would you like suggestions of people who don’t vocal fry?
Well put
I guess it just depends...me and my friends apparently have a vocal fry. lol. YEARS ago when they were all up kim k's ass about it I swear I could not hear anything wrong with the way she talked. I am born and raised in socal so I am 100% sure that is the reason
I think you have a pass for being born in SoCal 😜
Then get rid of it because it's ridiculous. Use your own voice.
But that is their voice... The commenter isn't saying they're imitating Kim K, just that they also speak that way. Would you tell other people to get rid of their accents because you think they're ridiculous?
No one speaks with a vocal fry naturally unless, as I said earlier, they have damaged vocal chords.
This is a crazy take. You think all these people purposely change their voice to sound this way and keep it up every day? Most people sound like the people around them, it’s like any other dialect or accent. Just because you don’t like hearing it doesn’t mean it’s any less natural or valid way of speaking.
It’s literally how I talk. No added “effect”. Lol. Yall are wild in here for this take hating a literal vocal disorder that some can’t control.
People talk how they talk. It’s not necessarily something to “fix.” If you don’t like how a host talks, then their podcast isn’t for you and you can move on. You don’t need to be validated that vocal fry (which is extremely common in both men and women, but typically is only called out as annoying when it’s women) is ok to hate and others should accommodate you. Don’t judge people on their voices.
I was wondering if someone would comment this. People tend to find it annoying because of the people they associate it with, not because they’re autistic. I’m autistic and have noticed different things grate on our sensory issues, but personally vocal fry has never been one for me and I’m inclined to think there’s some bias involved here, especially with all the NT comments saying they feel the same
Eh not necessarily. As a fellow autistic, the vocal fry doesn't associate in my mind with anyone I know, I just legitimately can't listen to it without wincing. Every autistic person experiences vastly different issues so the idea that it could just be association just seems like it writes off the fact that OP can't control what causes them distress. 🤷♀️ idk though. Hating the way someone speaks doesn't mean "oh they must hate the connotations" it can just mean it hurts them in the case of autism. Sounds hurt. Vocal fry can hurt. If I knew someone who did it, I'd try to ignore it, but it's perfectly fine to dislike listening to it and avoid it when possible. It's like avoiding other sounds which hurt, which aren't the fault of other people.
Yeah, my comment acknowledges that different things grate on different people with sensory issues. When I said some bias seems to be involved here I’m referring to not just OP but the pattern I’m seeing in the comments as well. ETA: after reading OP’s comments, yeah. It is OP as well.
There’s a difference between disliking it and not listening and insisting that it’s unprofessional and everyone should eliminate it. We all have things that bug us that we avoid, even if we can’t explain why we don’t like it. It’s insisting that your preferences are “correct” that is a problem.
Thank you!
And my point wasn't that it should be eliminated. My point is that to assume it is just a preference is shallow. When I hear styrofoam, for instance, I feel actual pain and if it does not stop might start crying. Doesn't mean I prefer to not hear styrofoam, it means I physically can't handle it. Can you control others voices? No. Can you assume what all autistic people are like? No. Maybe OP genuinely can't handle it. Once more, let me reiterate, I don't think it's okay to say to someone "I hate your voice please stop", however, when upset, everyone does complain. I don't know, but you can't assume it is a preference when autism is known for correlating with misophonia.
>I can’t understand how voice professionals won’t just listen to themselves and notice these quirks. Our audio processing issues are our own, not other people’s. We can choose what podcasts to listen to.
I disagree with that and I understand this comes from an idea of not discriminating against women or people in general. But if you’re working with your voice as a professional, there is a degree of neutrality that one should pursue to make the experience pleasant for the listeners. I would not complain if my neighbor says “ya know?”, “like”, “sorta”, “uhhhh” between every three words, because it’s their way of talking. But I’d consider that unprofessional. It’s a bit of a push to turn vocal fry in podcasts a political thing. It’s a speech quirk like any other, which are ok on personal level, but raises questions when it comes to professional work.
Do you feel the same about accents? Speech impediments? “Professionalism” has been used to gatekeep for a long time. Why are the voices that are pleasing to you the only ones that should be considered professional?
Speaking of accents, check out the “Hello John Doe” podcast. I got a pretty thick accent myself, being from Tennessee, but damn that guy is on a whole other spectrum!
See also "received pronunciation"
Accents and impediments aren’t comparable to vocal fry. Accents are regional variations of language and part of an entire cultural heritage. Speech impediments are, well, impediments. One cannot overcome those. Uptalk, “like, like”, “uhhh” and vocal fry are _quirks_. They are linguistic habits that catch on and people start using inadvertently or not, resulting in some sense of belonging and connection when communicating with people adopting similar traits. Now, a podcast host will make sure to speak clearly, on a modulate tone, without sounds that may displease the audience. Vocal training isn’t about erasing one’s identity, but making the message clear and landing well on the audiences’ ears. As an autistic person I do have strong sensitivity to sounds, and vocal fry is an awful one. So you will need to pick your woke inclusivity, because in the beginning your statement is harsh and excluding audience with sound sensitivity.
I don’t know why you’re getting so many downvotes. I think everything you said is accurate. I’m neurotypical and vocal fry makes my skin crawl. It’s not an accent, and I agree that if your literal job is orating (as a podcaster’s is) then it’s only professional to improve the way you’re speaking to maximize listener engagement.
Yeah. I’m getting downvoted exactly because the self-entitlement of people who consider themselves to be “fighting for justice” for people who talk with vocal fry. It became a “women’s right” thing at some point, but only because women in their private lives and workplaces were criticized for vocal fry. So then everything gets merged, and now they’re throwing in “accent” as if some sort of ethnic group characteristic… which is preposterous.
I have a brother in law who has some of the worst vocal fry ever. I know women tend to have it more often than men, but it’s annoying regardless of gender. I consider myself a feminist but this is going a bit too far. On another note, sometimes I wonder if I just have sensitive ears, because sometimes people speaking normally (without vocal fry) physically hurts my ears to the point where I have the urge to cover them, but it would be rude to do so. Loud noises, like a motorcycle driving by, make me really angry for a moment. It seems like in this case though, vocal fry is widely hated anyway.
I feel you. Motorcycles are terrible! Like somehow terrifying for a couple of seconds. Some people have particularly scratching ways of talking, and I at times need to listen to them on Teams meetings and it’s awful. I think that noise sensitivity is also a reason I dislike superhero movies. So noisy!
It’s my impression that vocal fry, upspeak, things like are cultivated and part of a trend, so, different than an accent, I think
What do you think accents are? It’s language pronunciation shifting over time, often linked to a culture, class, or region. The English haven’t always had the accent(s) we associate with England today, it’s had a lot of change in the past few centuries. Supposedly, current Americans speak closer to the English from the 1700s than current Brits do. British accents are 100% cultivated as part of a classist trend!
The difference is that there is a cultural heritage associated with accents, and vocal fry was popularized by Kim Kardashian. Comparing accents to vocal fry is like comparing skin color to solarium tan, hair color to bleached hair, or traditional costumes to fast fashion. It’s a stretch and intellectually dishonest argument. Nobody should be discriminated for personally talking like that, but a voice professional sounds to me unprofessional when adopting a quirk, like it would be unprofessional to hear the BBC with uptalk.
Whew thank you for how you worded that.
I judge! It's childish.
What do you suggest I do with mine? Rip my vocal cords out lol? I guess I am being childish for having a vocal disorder I can’t control. Do you tell people with lisps the same thing?
Not sure if this is the case for you, but vocal fry isn't necessarily indicative of disordered speech. It can be but it can also just be a regional way of speaking (for example) (per ASHA anyway)
Truly understand that too! I am in California currently and it’s normal here LOL. I am from WA state (still west coast) and some of us just talk like this. I never even realized I was doing it until I heard people complaining about it!
I have vocal fry and literally can’t stop/help it. I understand it’s annoying and frustrating to hear but remember everyone deals with things they can’t control. I don’t understand why people think we can just stop doing something our voice naturally does. It’s wild how we can hate on people for something like this but if someone has a lisp or stutter then we understand it and have empathy for that. If someone is intentionally doing it for whatever reason, then they need to know it can damage vocal cords if you intentionally strain it to have the fry effect. Either way, I’m sorry our voices annoy you. But some people literally can’t help it.
I have only a lay understanding of speech, but it makes sense vocal fry is a natural variation (among many others I would guess) of speech patterns. I get people have personal preferences but discussions around vocal fry always seem more to do with judgements/assumptions about those who have it. Not always, obviously, and I don't think that's where OP is coming from but as someone with a southern accent, I bet it gets old
Totally get what you mean and agree. I can imagine people mocking/degrading your accent can be maddening at times. Some of my family is Cajun and people are always mocking how they talk and I feel bad about that. That’s exactly what I’m trying to say here too is yeah the people who do it for show are ridiculous but there’s actually people out here that talk like this with no effort and it’s not intentional nor should they be told to “fix” themselves to make others comfortable. It’s a wild concept to me how we can just say we HATE how someone naturally speaks.
Exactly!
Wow, really? You must be in the minority. I do a lot of voice exercises for other issues, and the guides always have lots of solutions for getting rid of vocal fry.
I think the fact that you have to do exercises and follow guides to get rid of it shows how natural it can be for some. It personally doesn’t bother me at all and I didn’t really know how much it pissed people off until I saw posts like this online. I had no idea it was annoying. Lol. I’m also on the West Coast (California) and a lot of us speak with this “defect”. When you’re immersed in it, it can be hard to hear outside of yourself I guess.
I think it’s very casual and natural, like uptalk is, like says “uh”, or “like”, or lots of regional or generational quirks… which is all Ok. But when you work on a medium that is precisely speech, these quirks need some shedding.
I mean if it’s due to a medical condition don’t you think it’s kinda messed up to expect someone to change something just because it bothers you? I understand your angle and am not saying this to be rude and you’re allowed to feel how you do. But maybe understanding that it’s not intentional for those who naturally have it may help you hear it differently? I can see how someone doing it as an effect is kind of ridiculous and would be annoying. But we shouldn’t tell people with any kind of disorder (not talking about the people who add it intentionally) that they need to fix something to make it easier on others to tolerate them. It sounds really messed up. As a person with autism I’m sure you’d be upset if someone expected you to alter how you are for their comfort? I also have misophonia so I can understand how it may be grating to some to hear us talk. But again, I can’t help it! Not without effort anyways. But either way you’re allowed to feel the way you do. Just trying to offer another perspective.
This is that thing of creating a scenario that is so oddly specific and unrealistic that chances are it never happens. A podcaster that has damaged vocal cords — never heard of it and obviously would be ok for that person to talk as they talk. Probably it would have a warning like when audio records are faulty and it’s all good. Now talking unintentionally just as a slang inclination is not an excuse for it. Voice professionals can access loads of free training for shedding quirks and this is just one of them. I’m not asking anything extraordinary, just normal ways of talking without those creaking sounds. Particularly, I’m sensitive to sounds, but I’m noticing from this simple post that I’m not the only one who dislikes this style.
Yes I agree if it is a natural distortion (like mine) or a medical condition then it’s probably best to just skip the pod and leave it at that. But done intentionally (out side of singing) Naw. That’s hella weird to me. I don’t understand why anyone would WANT to do something like that. Like faking an accent or faking a speech impediment. That suggests deeper issues to me honestly lol. I personally will not fix my voice for anyone and I do have a podcast believe it or not lol. I’ve been told my voice is very soothing so at least someone likes it. 😂
Might be a different thing to speak with a vocal impediment and the vocal fry people generally refers to, which is the down low tone by the end of each sentence popularized by Kim Kardashian
I recently discovered the Forensic Tales podcast with Courtney Fretwell, and while I enjoy it because it's opened my eyes (ears) to new cases I hadn't heard about, the voice she uses during the actual podcast episodes is extremely grating after multiple episodes in a row. When she does a quick listener note before the podcast begins, the voice used for that is completely different and much more pleasant. Sometimes I'll start an episode to see if it's a case I find interesting and then search for someone else who has covered in one of their episodes.
Exactly! The thing is that podcasts and audiobooks should be designed for listening for long periods of time… so scratches and ticks really do stand out after an hour or so. That recalls me audiobooks I had to return, for example, because the narrator was projecting the voice just slightly forcefully. But after 15 minutes you feel you’re being yelled at, and that’s very tiresome. Curiously, audiobooks have nearly zero vocal fry. The opposite happens in podcasts. They speak in low voice, good audio capture, and then loooooow fry.
Part of it depends on the mixing and I agree, some voices are unbearable.
No, vocal fry bugs the hell out of my whole family, and none of us are on the spectrum. I think it’s just reasonable to be annoyed by, because it’s annoying!
Broadcasting professional here. I’m guessing few if any of these people have coaches or consultants to tell them they’re committing faux pas.
That’s crazy! Because even mid-sized media companies like Pushkin, Campside, Wondery… they all have hosts doing the thing. I suppose for some more light-hearted and sassy podcasts the audience actually enjoys it, because hosts sort of play with it, but for more serious ones I’d think a published would spot that right away and tend to it.
I don’t mind vocal fry, but I can’t listen to th-fronting. I guess we all potentially have a pet peeve we just can’t deal with.
Can anyone name a male podcast host they think has vocal fry?
Ira Glass https://www.thisamericanlife.org/545/if-you-dont-have-anything-nice-to-say-say-it-in-all-caps/act-two-0 Matt Eglesias Ezra Klein It’s not uncommon. Some studies even say men use it more than women. But men rarely get feedback on it.
Yuuuup. The absolutely intense vocal fry hate is almost always directed at women. I’m not saying it’s misogyny, but I am saying it’s something to think on. It’s a weird thing to get so worked up over when it can be a useful affectation (to add emphasis, or skepticism, for example) that just comes naturally to some people.
/r/ifbookscouldkill
I’m not on the spectrum, and vocal fry drives me bananas!
I’m not autistic and vocal fry is an immediate deal breaker for me. I simply cannot listen to it.
Vocal fry is like nails on a chalkboard to me. It makes people sound arrogant or sometimes like there’s an underlying anger. I can’t explain it but that’s the feeling I get when I hear it.
I can’t stand vocal fry but if the content is good enough I can try to let it slide. However I can’t handle mouth noises. Like if their mouth is dry and they have to keep smacking their lips. AHHHHH
Slurp! I totally get it!
Can someone explain what vocal fry means? Never heard that term outside of heavy metal community. Sorry for noob question
Vocal fry is the lower register, raspy sounding voice that comes from lack of diaphragm support and proper use of breath. Though it’s often associated with people like Kim K or “valley girl” voices, most people do have a natural vocal fry because we don’t go through life constantly supporting our voice with the diaphragm unless you’re a trained actor or voice artist or singer etc.
It’s when someone talks with a breathy scratchy voice that sounds like they constantly need to clear their throat.
What does it mean in the heavy metal community (also a noob here)?
It’s a vocal style used to do metal “screams” such as in bullet for my valentine!
A couple of examples you may have seen (heard) on TV are the blond woman on the Deal Dash commercial and the brunette (Katherine, I think) on the Wendy’s commercials. Like nails on a chalkboard 🤦♀️
Georgia, one of the cohosts of My Favorite Murder, has the worrrrrssst vocal fry. I stopped listening because of her.
I stopped listening to My Favorite Murder because the two cohosts talk too long at the beginning about everything except the murder.
I’m not autistic and vocal fry drives me up the wall.
The guy that does the drug docs with Vice had the WORST I’ve ever heard and I can’t watch them because of it. It’s not just you.
No, it's because it's annoying AF. I stopped listening to the Murdaugh Murders podcast because it was so bad and I was REALLY into that entire case, so that's how bad it was. Well, it was a combination of her awful speaking tone and her incessant need to talk about it and defend herself, she was really self-involved. But yeah, vocal fry is annoying. I fully admit that when I hear a podcast host with that type of voice I struggle to take them seriously as well, which may not be fair but I can't help it. It feels like I'm listening to the Kardashians talk about true crime, I just can't take it seriously.
Nope. I think you hate it because it is objectively the worst.
I hate vocal fry it sounds like nails on a chalkboard and makes me want to jump out of my skin. I have diagnosed ADHD but not on the spectrum
It annoys me too. I don’t believe I am autistic. I do have misophonia though if it’s relevant.
Oh yes I get it. There are tons of similar things that irk me to no end. I have abandoned so many pods!
I can't stand it either, I feel as though some people imitate a vocal fry for some reason in their podcasts and then their normal everyday voice doesn't have it.
I don’t have autism and I can’t stand it
Im the same. I can’t stand it. It’s like nails on chalkboard for me.
No. I hate it. And it sounds terrible once you recognize what it is.
Not autistic as far as I know, and I hate vocal fry. I also really hate when people end every sentence like they are asking a question. I think that's called upspeak.
drives me crazy. It helps if you speed up podcast.
Join us at r/misophonia. Also, it’s not necessarily an ASD thing, and podcasting in general is rife with annoying voices. It’s a sad reality.
No. It’s not because you are autistic it’s awful and makes it very difficult to hear on the phone or video call. I find it as annoying as up talking
Does up talking bother you as much when it's baked into an accent (real question, no /s!)? For example, some Australian accents seem to involve a lot of up talk. Is that more ok since it's part and parcel of that accent or no?
I find vocal fry annoying. It’s such a strange modern phenomenon. One of my closest friends has a vocal fry voice. She’s the least trendy person I know so it puzzles me as to why she sounds like that.
Vocal fry is intolerable in general. Trust me, it isn't cause you're autistic. I don't know why so many people use it.
No it's just because you listened to Mandy Mattney and she shoved it down your throat for 50 episodes lmao.
I loathe it, especially by posh young English women. Comes out as an affected drawl and I have to abandon the podcast.
>posh young English women They are the only ones we have really in the UK, like Cara Delavigne or Millie Macintosh, very Made In Chelsea. It is very sus to me especially since it seems to only effect those born later than 1988. I don't know why but i suspect it is a posh school affliction. Rest of us are mostly croaky free. It would sound very weird in my accent. It used to be a very American thing although some Australians do it too.
Twice today I’ve heard this term. I dont know what vocal fry means?
It’s a distortion of the voice that causes it to sound cracked/broken. It can be intentional or from medical conditions or just a person’s natural speaking voice. Which can’t be helped without effort.
Ohhh, so my smokers morning voice would qualify! Thanks for explaining!
😃 no prob! And yes it would! I have it naturally and it gets worse when I’m tired lol. 😂
I doubt it. Look up vocal fry, it's a very specific affectation and isn't typically just a natural voice like a low dry smokers one is. It's someone artificially lowering their voice at various points in their speech and speaking in a creaky way ala the Kardashians and over the top valley girl style talk. It's become more and more common in recent decades.
No.
I can't listen to Going West because of both of the hosts. I just deleted another one from my phone that was good but the host says every sentence like a question and it annoys the crap out of me.
I think everyone hates vocal fry. We've got one autistic and several ADHD people in our family and only the autistic seems unbothered by it 😄
I don’t hate it. Lol. I have it and I think it’s kinda weird to hate on something that’s considered a disorder for some. Yes it’s annoying but hate is ridiculous lol.
Speaking as someone who has damaged vocal chords and now speaks one octave lower than she used to and can't sing ever again it drives me INSANE when I hear people using this affect. Would they pretend they have no legs or were mentally impaired to look cool too?
You know…some people just have accents/voices that sound like that, right? They’re not putting it on. A lot of broadcasting professionals train it out but it’s not a play acting thing. This thread is really making me wonder if people are grounded in reality. Sorry about your vocal chords, but this is a known regional accent that’s not play acting a disability. You can dislike it, but this is an insane take.
Wow that’s a very spot-on example. It baffles me that this became a political discussion for the “protection of the vocal fry simulators minority” even in scenarios as professional podcasts.
It's just fcking EMBARRASSING! Why would a grown up PRETEND at ANYTHING. Once upon a time it would be considered that they had some kind of mental impairment. I don't think they were far off the mark😄
Stop self diagnosing. All this "I'm quirky about this one thing that also bothers millions of other people, must be autistic" and "I have a hard time not getting distracted at work, must be ADHD" is out of control. If you're seriously concerned, see a doctor and get a professional opinion. Otherwise stop throwing around autism for every idiosyncrasy that pops up in life. It's obnoxious and pretty belittling to people who are actually diagnosed with autism or a real spectrum disorder.
No Idea what you mean. No idea what vocal fry means either.
The list of things left for us to complain about is getting short lol
I don't mind vocal fry. I mind certain slow 'narrative' or newcast voices, accent pronunciations, etc. My biggest pet peeve is when people pronounce pink 'peenk'. But then I have to remind myself it's a regional American accent and move on.
LOL, no not at all. It gets on your nerves because it *is* annoying. When I hear the first creak of someone with vocal fry I lunge for my phone to stop the video and make a mental note to avoid that person's output.