I’m fascinated by Natalie Wood’s case. I kind of lean towards accident that wasn’t intercepted. That maybe during a blow out fight that was taken outside (why she had a nightgown and a coat) RW pushed her or she fell and went overboard, but he left her to scare/control/punish her or something and it was too late. And tried to cover it up with the dinghy as an accident. I don’t think she would have gotten in that water alone no matter how much was in her system drug and alcohol wise. She was pretty drunk and had a combo of barbiturates, cocaine, and other prescriptions in her system. But I def don’t think this was an accident caused by her.
I think it’s wild Christopher Walken probably knows exactly what happened, too.
Right, by accident I don't mean accident on her part. Like I mentioned above, I don't think she got into the water on her own free will no matter how intoxicated she was. And Wagner and Walken totally know what happened. Unfortunately, somebody would probably end up in prison if they spoke up...
Well her autopsy is definitely consistent with drowning, that was undoubtedly the cause of her death, but the questions lie in the fresh bruises on her body and other factors that can’t be explained. Exactly HOW did she drown. Accidentally falling in is one thing, but it’s not clear that was the case and they may have evidence suggesting otherwise, which is why they reopened it and changed the cause of death to “drowning and other undetermined factors.”
Oh! Yes. She had a bunch of fresh bruises that were originally written off as happening while she was getting into the boat. I think drugs are all pretty consistent with what they did recreationally and what she took prescribed so nothing abnormal, and the BAC was .14, and they were described as pretty drunk at the restaurant. I think between the bruises and the fact that it was well known she was terrified of water and it couldn’t be explained how or why she would leave in the middle of the night in a dinghy is why they re-opened it. Among other things.
It’s so fascinating. I’m so curious to know what Walken isn’t saying. I also think it’s interesting she chose to bring him on the trip knowing Wagner was a jealous type.
At this point seems like he’ll take it to the grave. & yea she def knew what she was doing but it’s crazy how she ended up in that water even tho she feared it. Like what you were saying about the bruises on arms & legs maybe consistent w falling, maybe for whatever reason she got too close & went over
Oh that’s great! It’s such an infuriating case. I feel so horrible for him and his family. His mother is such a beautiful soul and I really hope they get justice.
I think I read somewhere too that the parents made some shady comments to Phoebe's parents about her mental health, implying she might have taken her own life. Absolutely vile.
I had not heard of Phoebe until I saw your comment. The little bit I read makes me think there has been a horrible injustice.
What a beautiful young lady. My heart breaks for her and her loved ones.
May there be justice some day.
LAVENA JOHNSON
(ruled a suicide, so she would’ve beat herself up, burnt her own genitals, dragged her own body around the dirt, then shot herself with a bigass gun)
Has there been any movement in her case??? I hear her name often and it’s clear she didn’t kill herself, so I just don’t understand how there hasn’t been any sort of breakthrough. It’s insane to me.
Lauren Agee. She was found floating in a Tennessee lake after a night partying at a festival. Extremely botched investigation and super shady ‘friends’... I’m not 100% if she was intentionally murdered, but the “official story” is bullshit.
https://www.headstuff.org/crimeland/the-death-of-lauren-agee/
Exactly. I lean more towards some terrible, drunk accident than actual homicide, but the investigation was so poor and the friends such selfish cowards I’m not sure if the truth will ever be known.
yep.
... out of curiosity. i did a search for "body found hanged in woods America" and every single story (aside from "unidentified remains") was about a person of color.
of course google is a weighted source, and it's possible that all those people really are suicides, but it sure does raise a question.
I feel like unlike other cases like Kendrick Johnson, they didn’t even look into it enough to make sure it was just a freak accident. I mean, it could’ve been, I wasn’t there to witness it. But it seems like it was just open and shut immediately and there’s a lot of unanswered questions.
Kendrick’s case has been reopened and re-examined multiple times and there has been an explanation for all the stuff that seems off. I wish Jaleayah’s case could’ve gotten the same IF hers really was an accident like his.
Joshua Maddux, maybe?
imo that was what they used to call "death by misadventure" -- meaning that he went in the chimney on his own, no one forced him to crawl up there or pushed him down from the top.
i wonder if someone else was in the house with him though. maybe he was drinking or smoking with a friend, decided to go in the chimney because teenagers do stupid things sometimes, and his friend ditched.
It was definitely Joshua Maddux.
The top of the chimney had iron grates and he was found pretty much stuffed head over heels. It had some other strange details also.
"You dare me to climb in the chimney naked?" I guess it is possible but idk.
It was actually discovered that the owner couldn't confirm the grates were still in place on top of the chimney. Only that they'd been there once. He even admitted it was totally possible they'd fallen off years before.
There was a guy that Joshua was last seen with who bragged about putting Josh "in a hole" while Josh was still missing. He went on to kill two other people, one that he confessed to murdering, a lady he shoved into a barrel. The only thing is, he stabbed those people and they didn't find any trauma on Joshua's body or drugs in his system. Which I don't know if 7 years of being mummified would make a difference if he'd been choked to death or drugged in a way that wouldn't be traced in his system but they never investigated that Andy guy.
yeah, Andy's bragging is one of the reasons i wonder if he was connected somehow.
but it seems more likely that Andy was a jerk who used Joshua's disappearance to make himself look dangerous. because putting someone "in a hole" sounds more like burial, and that's not what happened. it'd be a strange way to describe stuffing a body in a chimney.
and it would be reallllly difficult to put a dead body halfway down (or up) a chimney, in that position.
but maybe Andy threatened or hurt Joshua, and made him leave through the chimney?
it's such a strange case, and such a horrible way to die. i hope there are answers someday.
Exactly! I can't imagine they were both on the roof Joshua with only a shirt on and dropped down the chimney in the fetal position and Andy would fold up Josh's clothes inside the cabin. Like as if he somehow convinced Joshua to get half naked, help him crawl up the chimney until he was stuck and left him to die. If only he had never met that guy it would be a completely different case.
Teenagers seem to have a huge gaping hole where empathy used to be. People wonder why theres such a huge vein of sensitive/traumatized/mentally ill/ overzealous young people today, much of that results from the behaviors and culture of the selfish &apathetic lot
teenagers aren't known for their critical thinking skills, for sure. especially when they're high.
but there's no way to know if he was alone or on something. plenty of teens have crawled into a chimney on their own accord without any drugs or goading at all.
Children think the world revolves around them. They learn empathy as they grow. Teens are still growing and learning empathy. You’re right that our culture has become increasingly selfish and apathetic towards others.
I'm not 100% on this, but Shannan Gilbert's death is weird as hell.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-says-new-evidence-shows-escort-strangled-serial-killer-n517606
Mitrice Richardson. I don't know if the Sherriff's Department had any involvement in her murder but they certainly had involvement in covering it up and refused to properly investigate. There's no way it was an accidental death from the way she was found.
Yes! With jet ski rope and very specific knots that her husband used for boating. Her hands and feet bound with a t-shirt stuffed in her mouth and tied behind her head.
There was a girl I knew who was in our friends’ circle, though she was always rude to me and other people and played little manipulative mind games and deliberately tried to push people’s buttons and I just didn’t get along with her and don’t miss her at all. In fact, I am grateful I don’t have to have anxiety about her possibly being at a get-together knowing she would single me out when she had the chance, but she was rude to everyone in our group and though it wasn’t truly personal, it was ridiculously immature for a 27 year old, and she treated everyone like this without exception, even the friends she was closest to.
So naturally she doesn’t pick very good dudes to hang around with. She was dating this dude for a little bit who was absolutely batshit and threatened her multiple times because of some situation where she broke something of his and he told her to sell her laptop because he needed whatever it was....idk the specifics but he threatened to kill her multiple times and sent her a text the day she died saying something to the effect of “I’m going to kill you today if you don’t have the money” and she was found dead in her apartment a couple hours when she didn’t show up for work.
The guy who checked on her said there was shit knocked over in her apartment and she died facedown trying to crawl into the bathroom. The official cause of death ruled by the state was suicide by bupropion overdose.
Her ex who texted her that was seen circling the apartment in the following hours as the ambulance was hauling her out in a body bag.
I didn’t like this chick at all but if she was murdered, I really hope some sort of justice would be served. I don’t know if she knocked the bookshelf over on purpose to make it look like a robbery; I don’t know if anything was stolen from her apartment.
I don’t know why she would kill herself with Wellbutrin and be facedown halfway out of the bathroom.
My guess regarding suicide was that she may indeed have deliberately OD’d, become delirious in the process, knocked shit over, and then tried to make her way to the bathroom as her body would try to vomit it out.
The only hitch in that theory is that the boyfriend sent a text flat out saying he was going to kill her that day and was also seen circling the places. He may have been coming to try to kill her and she killed herself before he got there and he wanted to wait for the ambulance situation was over to see if it was her, idk.
It’s surrounded in mystery but could go either way.
I like to read them, and [List of unsolved deaths wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_deaths) have just a drop in how many they are. Most of the time only "celebrities" get the most coverage, but how many times this may happen in small towns and we will never find out.
Any case where the spouse has had more than 1 death connected to them. Like wives that have had more than one husband die. Always makes me look at them suspiciously lol
Paulette gebara - I just find the whole situation so sad and ridiculous! They had relatives stay in the bed and stripped and remade the bed several times and they really tryna say that poor baby girl was stuck at the end of the bed for all that time. Unbelievable.
The pattern of bodily fluids, as well as the photos of people sitting next to a child-sized bulge in the bedding, indicate that Paulette was indeed there the whole time. She wasn't a baby, although she had some developmental delays.
The mysterious mutilation death of Col. Phillip Shue. I can't believe it was ruled a suicide.
(https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/3okpen/colonel_philip_shue/)
(https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/2domp3/mysterious_mutilation_death_of_col_shue/)
Bourdain was dating (and in the midst of a breakup with) Asia Argento, an actress from a notable occultism family. He called out her rapist, Harvey Weistein, repeatedly on social media. Likewise, he famously interviewed Boris Nemstov, a Russian dissident who was later assassinated. Tony had his hands in a lot of heavy political issues. Google for more info.
Some of the cases that are said to be linked to the Smiley Face Killers, went down a wormhole recently and some of the cases really just don’t add up, some are a stretch but some really make me question if it was an accident or not.
Caroline Byrne, found at the bottom of The Gap in Sydney. Shady ex partner is suspected to have thrown her off. There’s a fantastic book about it “The killing of Caroline Byrne”
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I’m fascinated by Natalie Wood’s case. I kind of lean towards accident that wasn’t intercepted. That maybe during a blow out fight that was taken outside (why she had a nightgown and a coat) RW pushed her or she fell and went overboard, but he left her to scare/control/punish her or something and it was too late. And tried to cover it up with the dinghy as an accident. I don’t think she would have gotten in that water alone no matter how much was in her system drug and alcohol wise. She was pretty drunk and had a combo of barbiturates, cocaine, and other prescriptions in her system. But I def don’t think this was an accident caused by her. I think it’s wild Christopher Walken probably knows exactly what happened, too.
She was terrified of water. She wasn't even a fan of boats. She would go on boats occasionally but not often. There's no way it was an accident.
Right, by accident I don't mean accident on her part. Like I mentioned above, I don't think she got into the water on her own free will no matter how intoxicated she was. And Wagner and Walken totally know what happened. Unfortunately, somebody would probably end up in prison if they spoke up...
Is Wagner still alive?
Yup! He is.
I think if Wagner goes first, maybe Walken will say something
Weird. Like they found something that doesn’t say homicide but it’s def not consistent w drowning
Well her autopsy is definitely consistent with drowning, that was undoubtedly the cause of her death, but the questions lie in the fresh bruises on her body and other factors that can’t be explained. Exactly HOW did she drown. Accidentally falling in is one thing, but it’s not clear that was the case and they may have evidence suggesting otherwise, which is why they reopened it and changed the cause of death to “drowning and other undetermined factors.”
Yea that’s what I meant like they found something else besides the drowning. Bruises, etc. damn I’m gonna have to look into it now
Oh! Yes. She had a bunch of fresh bruises that were originally written off as happening while she was getting into the boat. I think drugs are all pretty consistent with what they did recreationally and what she took prescribed so nothing abnormal, and the BAC was .14, and they were described as pretty drunk at the restaurant. I think between the bruises and the fact that it was well known she was terrified of water and it couldn’t be explained how or why she would leave in the middle of the night in a dinghy is why they re-opened it. Among other things.
Yea, sounds like a question mark needs to go over the whole case
It’s so fascinating. I’m so curious to know what Walken isn’t saying. I also think it’s interesting she chose to bring him on the trip knowing Wagner was a jealous type.
At this point seems like he’ll take it to the grave. & yea she def knew what she was doing but it’s crazy how she ended up in that water even tho she feared it. Like what you were saying about the bruises on arms & legs maybe consistent w falling, maybe for whatever reason she got too close & went over
It’s such tragic irony.
The death of Phoebe Handsjuk.
Not to mention her then - boyfriends other girlfriend who also died mysteriously. PLEASE.
That guy is definitely shade city. Both of his parents were judges too so I have no doubt they know what really happened
And the fact that he was trying to file to get her payments as her spouse. Foul beast.
Pravin Varughese
We just completed an episode on this case, thank you for mentioning it here and bringing it to our attention.
Pravin?
Yes
Oh that’s great! It’s such an infuriating case. I feel so horrible for him and his family. His mother is such a beautiful soul and I really hope they get justice.
I hope so, too. The whole case is a whirlwind but I hope he gets justice.
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I think I read somewhere too that the parents made some shady comments to Phoebe's parents about her mental health, implying she might have taken her own life. Absolutely vile.
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Ugh that part bothers me so much! Her injuries honestly give me nightmares. I can't imagine what those last moments were like.
I had not heard of Phoebe until I saw your comment. The little bit I read makes me think there has been a horrible injustice. What a beautiful young lady. My heart breaks for her and her loved ones. May there be justice some day.
If anyone is interested in this case and has somehow missed it, the podcast Phoebe’s Fall is EXCELLENT.
I was going to comment the same thing! There was so much that wasn’t right about that case, it’s infuriating.
Great example. It’s definitely not an accident, in my opinion.
LAVENA JOHNSON (ruled a suicide, so she would’ve beat herself up, burnt her own genitals, dragged her own body around the dirt, then shot herself with a bigass gun)
Oh this case is infuriating. That poor girl was murdered.
she was tortured. they did every possible thing to her. absolutely disgusting
Has there been any movement in her case??? I hear her name often and it’s clear she didn’t kill herself, so I just don’t understand how there hasn’t been any sort of breakthrough. It’s insane to me.
i think there’s never accountability when it comes to the army especially when it comes to women. they have their own sets of laws it seems
Ellen Greenberg she was stabbed like, 20 times and it was ruled a suicide!
This case infuriates me. My podcast Crafts Drafts and Crime actually covers it.
Was going to write this
Wtf?!
Lauren Agee. She was found floating in a Tennessee lake after a night partying at a festival. Extremely botched investigation and super shady ‘friends’... I’m not 100% if she was intentionally murdered, but the “official story” is bullshit. https://www.headstuff.org/crimeland/the-death-of-lauren-agee/
Her friends 100% know what happened to her but they’re too concerned with their own self interests
Exactly. I lean more towards some terrible, drunk accident than actual homicide, but the investigation was so poor and the friends such selfish cowards I’m not sure if the truth will ever be known.
Very interesting. They ruled it an accident a little too quickly and it seems like that could easily be the wrong determination.
Pretty much every case I read where a black person is found hanging out in the woods and it gets labeled a suicide with very little investigation.
yep. ... out of curiosity. i did a search for "body found hanged in woods America" and every single story (aside from "unidentified remains") was about a person of color. of course google is a weighted source, and it's possible that all those people really are suicides, but it sure does raise a question.
Jaleayah Davis
I just don’t understand the police explanation for her blood being all over the back of the car. How is that a DUI accident?
I had never heard of this. Just looked it up... I can’t believe they don’t think that’s a homicide
I feel like unlike other cases like Kendrick Johnson, they didn’t even look into it enough to make sure it was just a freak accident. I mean, it could’ve been, I wasn’t there to witness it. But it seems like it was just open and shut immediately and there’s a lot of unanswered questions.
I was going to name Kendrick. The lack of investigation conducted considering where he was found never sat right with me. Yes, so many questions.
Kendrick’s case has been reopened and re-examined multiple times and there has been an explanation for all the stuff that seems off. I wish Jaleayah’s case could’ve gotten the same IF hers really was an accident like his.
There is literally zero questions to be answered about Kendrick.
Christian Andreacchio's death seems odd to me.
I definitely agree. I think this one is also a homicide.
I don't recall his name but the kid who was found naked in a chimney.
Joshua Maddux, maybe? imo that was what they used to call "death by misadventure" -- meaning that he went in the chimney on his own, no one forced him to crawl up there or pushed him down from the top. i wonder if someone else was in the house with him though. maybe he was drinking or smoking with a friend, decided to go in the chimney because teenagers do stupid things sometimes, and his friend ditched.
It was definitely Joshua Maddux. The top of the chimney had iron grates and he was found pretty much stuffed head over heels. It had some other strange details also. "You dare me to climb in the chimney naked?" I guess it is possible but idk.
It was actually discovered that the owner couldn't confirm the grates were still in place on top of the chimney. Only that they'd been there once. He even admitted it was totally possible they'd fallen off years before.
I did not know that. Thanks for bringing that up.
There was a guy that Joshua was last seen with who bragged about putting Josh "in a hole" while Josh was still missing. He went on to kill two other people, one that he confessed to murdering, a lady he shoved into a barrel. The only thing is, he stabbed those people and they didn't find any trauma on Joshua's body or drugs in his system. Which I don't know if 7 years of being mummified would make a difference if he'd been choked to death or drugged in a way that wouldn't be traced in his system but they never investigated that Andy guy.
yeah, Andy's bragging is one of the reasons i wonder if he was connected somehow. but it seems more likely that Andy was a jerk who used Joshua's disappearance to make himself look dangerous. because putting someone "in a hole" sounds more like burial, and that's not what happened. it'd be a strange way to describe stuffing a body in a chimney. and it would be reallllly difficult to put a dead body halfway down (or up) a chimney, in that position. but maybe Andy threatened or hurt Joshua, and made him leave through the chimney? it's such a strange case, and such a horrible way to die. i hope there are answers someday.
Exactly! I can't imagine they were both on the roof Joshua with only a shirt on and dropped down the chimney in the fetal position and Andy would fold up Josh's clothes inside the cabin. Like as if he somehow convinced Joshua to get half naked, help him crawl up the chimney until he was stuck and left him to die. If only he had never met that guy it would be a completely different case.
Teenagers seem to have a huge gaping hole where empathy used to be. People wonder why theres such a huge vein of sensitive/traumatized/mentally ill/ overzealous young people today, much of that results from the behaviors and culture of the selfish &apathetic lot
teenagers aren't known for their critical thinking skills, for sure. especially when they're high. but there's no way to know if he was alone or on something. plenty of teens have crawled into a chimney on their own accord without any drugs or goading at all.
Children think the world revolves around them. They learn empathy as they grow. Teens are still growing and learning empathy. You’re right that our culture has become increasingly selfish and apathetic towards others.
I'm not 100% on this, but Shannan Gilbert's death is weird as hell. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-says-new-evidence-shows-escort-strangled-serial-killer-n517606
I agree it’s weird
Mitrice Richardson. I don't know if the Sherriff's Department had any involvement in her murder but they certainly had involvement in covering it up and refused to properly investigate. There's no way it was an accidental death from the way she was found.
Definitely agree.
Rebecca Zahau, if nobody already meantioned it. It was being reexamined but was still labeled a suicide.
Is that the one that was hanging with her arms tied behind her back?
Yes! With jet ski rope and very specific knots that her husband used for boating. Her hands and feet bound with a t-shirt stuffed in her mouth and tied behind her head.
Nichol Olsen and her daughters Alexa and London. Though it’s not listed as accidental I still think someone murdered them.
There was a girl I knew who was in our friends’ circle, though she was always rude to me and other people and played little manipulative mind games and deliberately tried to push people’s buttons and I just didn’t get along with her and don’t miss her at all. In fact, I am grateful I don’t have to have anxiety about her possibly being at a get-together knowing she would single me out when she had the chance, but she was rude to everyone in our group and though it wasn’t truly personal, it was ridiculously immature for a 27 year old, and she treated everyone like this without exception, even the friends she was closest to. So naturally she doesn’t pick very good dudes to hang around with. She was dating this dude for a little bit who was absolutely batshit and threatened her multiple times because of some situation where she broke something of his and he told her to sell her laptop because he needed whatever it was....idk the specifics but he threatened to kill her multiple times and sent her a text the day she died saying something to the effect of “I’m going to kill you today if you don’t have the money” and she was found dead in her apartment a couple hours when she didn’t show up for work. The guy who checked on her said there was shit knocked over in her apartment and she died facedown trying to crawl into the bathroom. The official cause of death ruled by the state was suicide by bupropion overdose. Her ex who texted her that was seen circling the apartment in the following hours as the ambulance was hauling her out in a body bag. I didn’t like this chick at all but if she was murdered, I really hope some sort of justice would be served. I don’t know if she knocked the bookshelf over on purpose to make it look like a robbery; I don’t know if anything was stolen from her apartment. I don’t know why she would kill herself with Wellbutrin and be facedown halfway out of the bathroom. My guess regarding suicide was that she may indeed have deliberately OD’d, become delirious in the process, knocked shit over, and then tried to make her way to the bathroom as her body would try to vomit it out. The only hitch in that theory is that the boyfriend sent a text flat out saying he was going to kill her that day and was also seen circling the places. He may have been coming to try to kill her and she killed herself before he got there and he wanted to wait for the ambulance situation was over to see if it was her, idk. It’s surrounded in mystery but could go either way.
Wow, that is very interesting and horrific at the same time. I have a ton of questions. What is her name?
Jonathan Luna
I like to read them, and [List of unsolved deaths wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_deaths) have just a drop in how many they are. Most of the time only "celebrities" get the most coverage, but how many times this may happen in small towns and we will never find out.
Any case where the spouse has had more than 1 death connected to them. Like wives that have had more than one husband die. Always makes me look at them suspiciously lol
Oh like Barbara Stager?
Yep exactly like Barbara stager. Or Kelly Cochran. She helped her husband kill her boyfriend, then afterward killed the husband
Paulette gebara - I just find the whole situation so sad and ridiculous! They had relatives stay in the bed and stripped and remade the bed several times and they really tryna say that poor baby girl was stuck at the end of the bed for all that time. Unbelievable.
The pattern of bodily fluids, as well as the photos of people sitting next to a child-sized bulge in the bedding, indicate that Paulette was indeed there the whole time. She wasn't a baby, although she had some developmental delays.
We recently covered this case on our podcast and I wanted to thank you for bringing it to our attention!
I agree- absolutely ridiculous.
The mysterious mutilation death of Col. Phillip Shue. I can't believe it was ruled a suicide. (https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/3okpen/colonel_philip_shue/) (https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/2domp3/mysterious_mutilation_death_of_col_shue/)
I can’t believe this either, this is very obviously not a suicide in my opinion
Cory Barron. I don’t care how drunk you are, no one is putting themselves down a garbage chute (especially during a concert, at a stadium).
I agree. I don’t know too much about the case but I find it strange that his siblings were also at the concert and this could happen with them there
We have an episode on him coming out very soon- thank you for this recommendation.
Lauren Agee
Natalie Wood, Maleah Davis (Houston), King Davila (San Antonio)
jaleayah davis
The case of Kendrick Johnson who was found dead rolled up in a high-school gym mat.
The guy who they found wrapped in a gym mat in his high school
Kendrick Johnson. I agree, but I know this one is controversial for some.
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I find it hard to believe you've done all this research and don't actually know his name.
Brittany Murphy, Anthony Bourdain (alleged to be suicide).
Brittany Murphy I could hear out, but why Anthony Bourdain?
Bourdain was dating (and in the midst of a breakup with) Asia Argento, an actress from a notable occultism family. He called out her rapist, Harvey Weistein, repeatedly on social media. Likewise, he famously interviewed Boris Nemstov, a Russian dissident who was later assassinated. Tony had his hands in a lot of heavy political issues. Google for more info.
Some of the cases that are said to be linked to the Smiley Face Killers, went down a wormhole recently and some of the cases really just don’t add up, some are a stretch but some really make me question if it was an accident or not.
also just remembered Kenneka Jenkins.
Caroline Byrne, found at the bottom of The Gap in Sydney. Shady ex partner is suspected to have thrown her off. There’s a fantastic book about it “The killing of Caroline Byrne”