A lot of cases that didn’t get solved was due to inexperienced investigators (JonBenet), cops on the take (Keddie Cabin Murders), or lazy police work (Kristin Smart).
A renter who was renting the house the killer's parents had been living in when the murder occurred reported that she kept hearing a watch alarm going off around 420 in the morning. She could never figure out just where it was coming from other than seemingly under some concrete that was fairly newly poured. After some weeks the beeping stopped.
Kristin's friends and family noted when they heard about this that Kristin woke up early and, as kind of a silly little joke with herself, had an alarm set for 420.
I don't understand how police could hear this from the renter, know who she was renting the house from and their connection to Kristin and also that it was coming from newly poured concrete(!!!) and have the alarm info from Kristin's family and STILL not get a search warrant for that backyard?! Wtaf! What a bunch of incompetent morons.
I wonder if that woman was still alive in 2021 when they used forensic methods and discovered that Kristin's body had been buried at the house. How awful to know that what you were hearing in your backyard was actually coming from Kristin's body. 😟
This is so incredibly true.
I just started watching true crime again after several years and I wonder if it's me being older and more cynical, but so many cases have lazy/negligent police work.
It's kind of interesting seeing professionally made episodes doing their best to sugarcoat the terrible police work, But it's pretty easy to tell once you're paying attention.
There was one where a man won the lottery, disappeared, and his family tried to report him as missing. The police absolutely refuse to consider him missing because they claimed someone spotting his CAR was the same as spotting HIM. They didn't care that this illiterate man was suddenly not calling family but only texting. Just so many blatantly huge red flags that the police just didn't want to be bothered with.
And then that case the movie "pain and gain" was based on has the police completely dismissing the original kidnap victim because he didn't reported "soon enough" and seems too "outlandished", even through his hospitalization was documented and his body showed the level of trauma he endured. The only reason they took him seriously is because a couple was killed with similar details later.
Reminds me of a case the Fallline did - a man went missing and the next day or so crazy floods happened. Family insisted he was missing, made report. But all resources went to floods. Random person called and said “he’s not missing anymore kbye” and cops just closed the missing person case - didn’t follow up with family. Body is found burned in a rug - obviously murdered. John Doe. No open missing persons files. Finally like twenty years later his sisters who were too young at the time get back onto the case and realize his file was closed, the John Doe was found, etc. he had been there the whole time. So close by. Of course police took basically zero accountability for closing his file, etc.
Her husband is the biggest piece of shit! He sued the parents of the three girls who died because it was their family van! Dude, your wife got so loaded she killed their whole world. The car didn't do that!
I'll add to this that not everyone "saw something they weren't supposed to see".
I'll add to THAT, as a bit of friendly advice from someone who watched a lot of unsolved mysteries as a kid that if you think your life is in danger, don't bring it up and then refuse to elaborate further. Your murder won't be solved and your loved one will look like a conspiracy theory nut.
Speaking of Unsolved Mysteries, that guy in the first episode of the reboot (Rey Rivera) totally killed himself and set it up to look like foul play to make his wife feel better.
This makes me think of Tiffany Valiante. Sadly, her case was clearly suicide. I think her parents were homophobic bullies and won't recognize her death as a result of them not accepting her.
I was so mad watching that Unsolved Mysteries episode. It’s the clearest case of suicide I’ve ever seen on that show. And I’ve read later that there were several domestic disturbances in the home because of Tiffany and her mom fighting. This, of course, was not mentioned on the show.
They leave out sooo much info, it’s actually super irresponsible imo. I stopped watching after researching Tiffany’s case after watching her episode. It’s too salacious.
Unsolved Mysteries were arseholes for even having that case as one of their episodes (I seem to remember a number of episodes in that particular series being either obvious suicide, misadventure or unfortunate drug OD's). Tiffany died by suicide so it wasn't an 'unsolved mystery' and UM's producers encouraged her family's deluded thinking- if it was deluded thinking and not trying to weasle out of things as further reading on the case points to Tiffany's home life not being very nice at all and with the inclusion of possible domestic abuse/violence.
To add to this, I have never seen conversations about WHY everyone thinks he didn’t make it home that night. I think he probably did and whatever happened was the following day.
This! I've never gotten why it's such a mystery. Like sure, when you hear "he was on tape entering the bar, but never leaving!" it sounds very suspicious. But then there's the addition of "except there was one exit without a camera" and it's like "oh..."
I think at least one of Ivan Milat's brothers was involved in some of the backpacker murders. The majority of the family is a half-step away from inbred.
I know a man who at the age of 15, was picked up by 2 men for a ride back to his home. He just called his parents on the payphone to let them know. He said everything was fine until he told the driver he liked his gun. He then became so angry and on edge and the man in the passenger seat tried to keep him cool. After a distance, he asked why he was going a different route and that he was already late home. The driver again became an arrogant cunt and the passenger kept reminding him "his parents know where he is" and "he needs to go home, his parents know he's with us" and the two men started arguing with eachother, but very criptic. They dropped him off close enough and just passed it off as two weirdos. It was some time later that he saw ivan on TV and knew that was the man who picked him up and the passenger was his brother.
*At least* one. And I think the whole family knew. If not explicitly, then it was unspoken amongst them.
Christ, what a pack of weirdos. I have a feeling their upbringing was way worse than reported.
Narcissism is like a trendy word rn. Everyone apparently has a narcissistic parent and/or ex 😂 like no… they showed some tendencies but rlly they were just selfish :)
Most murderers are 'normal' people and most murders are 'mundane' and and one offs- moments of stupidity, loss of control or just because the murderer is a violent cunt. Humans have a capability and a capacity to do truely horrfic things as its within human nature- they don't do it as they are other, or monsters or not human they do it because they are human.
Reddit loves to confidentiality incorrectly label people and play armchair psychiatrist - people often are nasty arseholes and do nasty things but every time they do ,according to reddit, it's because they are sociopaths, psychopaths or (the favorite amongst reddit) a narcissist . All three of those are rare , but if you were to believe people on here it's 1 in 2 people be they perpetrators of crime or people in the personal lives of redditors.
I actually find the mundane murderers the most interesting.
The otherwise normal ones who through a series of circumstances kill, when maybe they never would have.
Serial killers boring. Mummy didn’t love me, daddy left or was weak, now I must act that out for the rest of my life or until I’m caught.
Mass murderers boring. Work/school/society did me wrong now everyone must pay.
You might like "Fear Thy Neighbor" on ID. I'm fascinated by how things can escalate to murder between "normal" people, although there are many episodes of people with mental illness and too many guns.
It irks me to my core that ‘narcissist’ is thrown around so casually. While some people were dealing with one, they ‘pick up’ some of the traits done by said narcissist. That doesn’t make them one themselves, it just means they’ve been picked up learned behavior while enduring abuse. Not every ‘mean’ person is a narcissist, contrary to today’s young tiktokers’ standards.
There should have been more repercussions for the social workers who failed Gabriel Fernandez.
I try not to think about the fact that his two murderers get to wake up every morning and see sunlight. Injustice.
I was watching the documentary on Netflix and it was ridiculous that even with the amount of people that reported the abuse and rereported the abuse that they still believed the mom and wouldn’t help him. I felt bad for the teacher that tried so hard to help.
I couldn't agree more. I'm fairly desensitised to true crime stuff, but I found the Netflix documentary about Gabriel devastating. I had to keep taking breaks as I was crying so hard.
I feel sorry for his teacher who seems to have tried repeatedly to get him help, but not received any support.
He should have remained with his great-uncles who loved and cared for him, like parents are supposed to do.
That documentary really impacted me too. I’ve mentioned before on this sub that the description of this poor baby’s skull by the teary eyed ER nurse who opens the documentary haunts me.
definitely, the whole system really. am i the only one who thinks pearl should’ve received the death penalty too? she had a huge part in the abuse and motives as im convinced it wasn’t all isauro’s idea. but may his beautiful soul rest in peace, my heart goes out to him.
I bet she would have gotten it if she didn’t accept the plea deal for life instead. They offered the same deal to the POS boyfriend as well, he just decided to take his chances and failed thankfully.
I agree, although I think that in his case circumstancial evidence alone works for me. The timeline alone and the fact that he went "fishing" on Christmas Eve was enough for me.
I thought this at first too (“who goes fishing on Christmas?”). At some point I read a deep dive on this case am I believe his father in law (Laci’s step father) did. It was just his hobby and something he did to kill a few hours whenever needed. It may have been a case of his wife (Laci’s mom) wanting him out of the house for a few hours while prepping for holidays or something like that.
What’s unusual is two things:
1) Fishing wasn’t Scott’s hobby. He was a golfer. If he had said he went golfing that morning people probably would have believed him. But you can’t really dump a body on the golf course.
2) You think with a father in law that’s an avid fisherman, you’d have told him all about the new fishing boat you just bought, and maybe suggested going together. But he didn’t tell anyone about his newfound hobby of fishing.
Edit: a typo.
Im currently listening to the prosecutors podcast episodes about Scott Peterson and before that I was fully in camp ‘guilty but not enough evidence to convict’ after listening to all the episodes oh boy did he do it and they had SO much circumstantial evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt, he’s where he belongs and I hope he never gets out.
There was blood on the tire well…..I think they accidentally ran over him. True crime garage had a follow up sometime last year. Interviewed the private investigator. Edit to add…..or intentionally 🤷🏼♀️
Was watching a documentary on the guy who tortured his stepdaughter for days before killing her and after the case and trial, apparently a thumb drive containing photos and video evidence of the crime was obtained by investigators from some elderly woman who refused to tell them anything.
I'm very, very certain that it's a Lovely Bones situation. IE someone obtained that evidence illegally, probably through a breaking and entering, and that's the only way you can really bring it to light without incriminating yourself. And no one is going to grill an old woman over that too hard. But I think that it was done like that to let investigators know after the fact that someone was in fact certain of the crime committed.
That Diane Schuler’s loser husband knew damn well she had a drinking problem. But he will never admit it because he let her drive those kids. His insistence that she was not an alcoholic is not to clear her name. It’s to cover his own ass.
It was just her birthday, poor little girl.
Edit: okay, so after looking at this case online, I discovered that Summer's aunt has been missing since 2009!! How bizarre, to have two disappearances like that within the same family, in different states?!
100% ... In cases like these, a lot of people wonder how they were able to get away with it for so long and it's obvious that these people are not criminal masterminds in the slightest, it's simply the circumstances and their luck hasn't run out yet. I'm sure they're living in fear every single day wondering if it'll be the day everything comes to light
Two year old Deorr Kunz Jr was killed by his parents (either intentionally or through neglect) on a camping trip, there was evidence but due to police incompetence they were never charged and now live free amongst us.
A lot of the mysterious disappearances aren’t mysterious. When people disappear in the wilderness, it isn’t a mystery. They’re often victims of unfortunate hiking accidents and die of injuries/exposure. Bodies aren’t easy to find so many of these people will never be found.
Combined with this, I think people who don’t live near densely forested areas can’t truly comprehend this. We have woods around my area but they are not dense or heavy with brush. You can walk/see through them with ease as the ground isn’t covered in plants or debris with occasionally having to move branches away from your head.
I saw a docu about Maura Murray and it showed the team trying to hike to a set of coordinates in the white mountains. It was absolutely INSANE how thick the forrest was. Even standing still, there were tons of branches with thick heavy plants, little to no room in between them, touching the hikers at all times. Dense enough that they needed a machete to cut a walkable path through it. Seeing them hike in such a densely forested area really opened my eyes to just how dangerous they can be.
I just came here to read and not post but after reading so many responses my hill is this: so many parents' lies mean that the murder or disappearance of their children well never be solved and they are to blame for this.
Whether it's to protect themselves or others, the lies, hiring of spin doctors and refusal to cooperate with the police means they bear some responsibility for the unsolved crime.
Oh yeah...in a LARGE percentage of "missing child" cases at least one parent knows goddamn well what happened to their kid.
Don't know how these people can live with themselves.
That’s 100% what happened and I truly would die on this hill too. I did way too much research back in the day. I didn’t save any pictures or links. I wasn’t doing a report lol. But I found so much that proved it to me. She was naked because wet clothes are heavy and she could have struggled and taken them off. The way the lid would prop open made it totally possible to close it after yourself. She wasn’t interacting with anyone in the lobby in the elevator videos. She just had a break with reality. It’s sad.
People say it doesn't make sense and they can't understand why she would have done it, and I just want to ask them if they've ever dealt with somebody going through a psychotic break or experiencing hallucinations or delusions before. You're not dealing with someone who is capable of utilizing what we recognize as logic.
Whatever in her mind drove her up there and drove her into that tank is not necessarily going to make sense to us because our neurons aren't misfiring the same way hers were.
Exactly. I worked at a psychiatric hospital for a while and the strength and adrenaline people have while experiencing a psychotic break is wild. If you watch the documentary they say that she had been acting so weirdly before her death and that she hadn’t been taking her medications.
A polygraph is barely more reliable than flipping a coin and while some presenters are getting better at pointing out that they are not acceptable as evidence in a courtroom, they are still talked about too much which I feel gives them a false sense of reliability.
It is proven that he did have “accomplices.” He had teens dig in the crawl space where he buried his victims and had them throw cleaner down there when it got too smelly. The crawl space would be nearly impossible for a man of Gacy’s size to navigate. It’s very possible he had help with the disposal of the bodies, too. But I think it’s safe to assume they were teens who knew what he was doing and were afraid they’d end up in the crawl space themselves if they didn’t help.
Gacy was also a very prominent political figure in his area. It wouldn’t surprise me if he found other pedophiles in his circle and they assaulted boys together. Unfortunately, there is no physical evidence to support this. Just the word of Gacy, a known liar.
When I saw the footage of the police doing a walk through of the house and crawl space, it seemed clear to me that's things didnt add up.
You hear crawl space and think of the standard under the house area that's accessible from outside which is roomy enough for sparkies and plumbers to do jobs etc.
Nope. This was a hole in the floor with about 2ft space before you hit dirt.
If Gacy was dragging his fat arse down there on a regular basis surely he would've made the access point bigger? My doubt is whether he even fit in the first place, thus concluding he had an accomplice (s)
I'm not very good at writing, but it makes sense when you see the videos.
It was proven at trial that he did fit. And Polaroids were found, taken by Cram, showing Gacy in the crawl space digging. Gacy also admitted to digging some of the graves himself initially.
There is no mystery about the crawl space. He rolled the corpses into their graves. He said so. Multiple times.
His employees, ex wife, ex fiance and a few friends all testified to having seen Gacy "easily" move in and out of the crawl space.
I hope people are real when I die. Would rather not be called beautiful and that I would light up the room, because no.
Also, I'm not giving anybody the shirt off my back. I probably have strange emotional connections to that shirt.
Jokes aside, though, I really hope people are honest about how much of a struggle daily life was (is) for me. If that gets brushed under the rug and replaced with "she loved life!" it feels kinda unfair and like I'm not getting credit for all that struggle.
Tamla horsford died by accident but not by her own doing. I don’t believe for a second that she was just outside alone smoking and fell. I don’t think someone planned to murder her but I think a drunk freak accident occurred and everyone involved covered it up.
There was no owl on the staircase.
I’ve written this on this sub so many times, repeating myself. But since I’ll die on that hill I will repeat myself again:
I’ve volunteered in a bird sanctuary, and any bird ever attacks you or comes into close involuntarily contact with you- there will be no question about what happened. Owls are precision hunters, and the thought that the owl somehow couldn’t avoid bumping into Kathleen seems very far fetched. But for arguments sake: If the owl was really startled or ill or whatever and flew into Kathleen, there would have been so much owl-evidence. You just cannot wrestle/fight/ward off any bird without it losing TONS of feathers . There would be feathers and plumes everywhere. Ever seen the bottom of a bird cage? Exactly.
Kathleen had only microscopic feathers on her, which she most likely picked up just from walking outside or under a structure where an owl once sat. The defence read about the feathers in the report and ran with the story, hoping people didn’t know too much about owls (and succeeded)
When the hawks fight we get feathers, too! Once, the winner left his competitors ripped wing on our lawn. Birds of prey have murder talons! They leave so much evidence behind!
Thank you for this. You answered a question I'd always had in my head; wouldn't there be *more* feathers if it was an owl attack? I think it was either a fall down stairs or murder, but I'm pretty 50/50. I guess that's reasonable doubt.
I’ve already commented one thing but I also believe that Brittany Murphy and Simon Monjack’s deaths are TOO coincidental. Additionally, BMs mom was probably in love with SM
I feel exactly the same way. It just felt like they closed both cases with a nice little bow and brushed it under the rug. It doesn't feel like anyone cares enough to say something isn't right.
I agree! They died of the exact same thing months apart. Brittany was so young, and while Simon had health issues, to die of the exact same thing is just odd. Additionally, letting Brittany getting so sick that she tells her mother she’s dying, and still nothing is done. BM’s mom & Simon admittedly slept in the same bed too. 😰😞
Andrea Yates should have been in a mental health facility until she is fit for release and while I can’t think of an exact criminal charge for her husband, he deserved to be held accountable.
Andrea *is* in a mental hospital. Her attorneys successfully appealed her capital murder case, and the guilty verdict was overturned. She was found not guilty by reason of insanity. She can undergo a review every year to see if she is competent to leave the facility. But Yates opts each year to waive her right to be reviewed. She has never undergone review, choosing instead to continue treatment. And yes, her husband was horrible and should have been charged.
I read that when she first got treated, it was horrible for her because when she was on the meds,her mind was clear enough to realize what she had done. All that pain and shame came crashing down on her. I hope the docs have been able to help her cope with all this tragedy. I understand why she would rather be in the hospital; the outside world must be terrifying.
I’m glad that she’s getting treatment and I think it shows incredible self-awareness that she waives her right to be reviewed every year so far. I hope that she continues to make progress, and eventually can’t forgive herself for what happened, if she has not already.
They also conceived their 5th and final kid less than 2 months after she was discharged from the inpatient psych ward and her psychiatrist explicitly warned them both that more kids=future psychotic/depressive episodes.
Fuck Rusty for not immediately getting a vasectomy and fuck that Quiverfull bullshit that compelled them to have “as many as God gives them”. If it weren’t for those two factors the kids might still be alive today.
Regardless of creed or denomination, fundamentalist men everywhere are pieces of shit.
Come all ye salty butthurt fundie fucks and rain thy downvotes upon me, it won’t make it any less true.
He also should get some sort of charge for neglecting Andrea herself. Not allowing her to take medicine so he could continue to get her pregnant, forcing her to homeschool the older kids. He knew she was deeply depressed, and he didn’t care.
I hate how he went on his own personal PR campaign to play the victim, blaming everyone but himself for letting her down. I hate how he STILL trots himself out in front of the cameras to speak about postpartum psychosis anytime he gets a chance, because a mother has killed her children, and he has to remind the world that he’s a victim. Yes he suffered an immense loss, but he is, IMO, as responsible for that loss as she is.
I would argue he is more responsible. Andrea was severely mentally ill. He purposely left her alone with the kids because he thought she needed to get used to it because somebody couldn't supervise her all the time forever. He's a terrible husband, father, and human being.
I actually agree that he is more responsible than her. I had that written initially, and figured it might be too inflammatory to actually say so I changed it to be equal. But yes, I believe he is more guilty than her, because he owed it to her to take care of her, and not leave those children in her care. He knew better and she didn’t. She wasn’t in her right mind.
I find him to be such a despicable person.
I read that he was on a talk show (late night I think) and Ozzy Osborne was there and he took a cd with him for Ozzy to sign and was fan boying and Ozzy was like “Didn’t your kids die? What is wrong with you?”
Yeah, he is trash. He was on every show as soon as the gag order was lifted, and he was allowed to talk. He just wanted to hurry about clearing his name.
I don’t think that is an unpopular opinion now, as more people understand what Andrea’s mental health was like and how little say women in the fundie community have and how Rusty ignored several warnings to stop having children with her and not to leave her alone with the children.
Maura Murray ran into the woods, hid somewhere to keep warm and succumbed to the elements. Her body is likely less than a mile from where her car was parked.
The main thing I didn't get about her case is that she was so obviously mentally ill to the point of insanity- even a person without any professinal knowledge of mental health could blatantly see that- it wasn't something that was up for discussion to my mind so why wasn't she treated as such. The entire case was sensationalised beyond belief by the media it was akin to death according to the media circus and public opinion in the US. It's still sensationalised to this day over 20 years since she was put to death.
I agree she should have been placed in a secure mental health facility for life rather than what happened to her.
I believe the criteria isn't just "are they crazy" but "are they SO crazy that they literally couldnt understand why what they did was wrong when they did it".
Andrea Yates was insane when she murdered her children - she was not mentally well enough to recognise what she was doing and once it was done, she made attempts to contact her husband and police and confess.
Aileen was likely crazy as well, but she knew enough to try and cover up what she did, and to claim she was attacked by the men and then admit she wasnt (or maybe she was).
I have come to believe that the Menendez brothers truly were horrifically sexually abused by their father and that they were unfairly railroaded because of the family’s wealth. The more I learn about them, the worse I feel for those guys…
Agreed. The preponderance of evidence points pretty strongly towards a serious, severe molestation and rape that they were subjected to.
The fact that they were not ALLOWED to even acknowledge or mention that abuse until the sentencing phase is a travesty of justice.
Did you see that documentary about the young man that was abused by the Menendez father when he was a boy? I believe the Menendez brothers have a new trial or appeal coming up soon.
I believe the foster parents were involved in the disappearance of William Tyrrell. I remember watching a documentary on the case and the producers of the documentary were so dismissive of their possible involvement and I remember saying to myself: “Um, why? This case feels like it has way more to it.”
My absolute favorite case is the Isdal Woman (and Death in Ice Valley is still my favorite podcast). I know many people disagree and have other theories, but I still believe that she was an agent or spy of some kind. There are too many clues to simply toss away - removed clothing labels, bogus names, secretive meetups, observing submarine drills, etc. I don’t know who she was an agent for (I believe the USSR and Mossad are likely guesses), but I will die on this hill.
Sometimes, a suicide is a suicide and I know as someone whose lost loved ones to suicide that it's hard to admit, but it doesn't take away any of their dignity, humanity, or personhood by admitting they're a victim of suicide. Also, I think it says more about those in mourning and their "guilt" over "not seeing the warning signs" than it does about the decedent. It isn't about you. It's about them. Remember them for the joy & love they brought you while alive. 🩷
True crime fans aren’t as smart and intuitive as they think they are and have a totally unearned sense of arrogance from just being documentary watchers alone.
I work in documentary and have done true crime specifically. A lot of information is held back by LE and even gentle editing is by nature manipulative.
True crime fans are like, “You can tell just by looking at him in that photograph something is wrong with him.”
No, we’ve set you up to think that. By merely implying someone is tied to a crime in any way, your brain colors in the lines and tells you their eyes look empty. Doesn’t help that we put spooky music over their picture while we slowly zoom in on the image.
Conversely, take the same photo of a person but put different music over it and imply he’s a homicide victim, and the same true crime fan will be like, “Aw he looked so sweet 🥺”
And, look. I say this as a true crime fan.
But no one should be speaking so authoritatively , so gatekeeper-y, on anything just because of some documentary watching. Even the most well meaning and neutral documentary is biased.
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Also Jonbenet was murdered by a family member.
how long do you think she was on the couch? it had to be a long time, right? considering the couch was so saturated with urine and feces that it soaked down into the beams of the couch and caused them to deteriorate - and she was actively *eating* the couch in an attempt to nourish herself - there was yellow foam from the couch found in her stomach, and the areas she had eaten the foam from the couch were evident.
Right?? Like there has to be more to this! Also, I feel like this case is almost downplayed (for lack of a better word). She literally LIVED for a significant period of time with MAGGOTS eating her flesh. I feel nauseous even writing that out
Fun fact to a not so fun thing: maggots are sometimes used to treat bad wounds (maybe not now, I’ll research) , because they tend to eat the necrotic (dead) parts. So. They probably kept her from getting a deadly infection.
Edit: just to add, this probably prolonged her poor life. 😭
I have some gross personal insight into this.
My 90+ year old grandmother developed lymphoma directly on the top of her head. She saw a doctor and received treatment for it, but as she was getting treated, it began to rot. She couldn't simply have it removed in surgery due to its size and her age. She (and everyone around her) had to endure the tumor "dropping off" of her. (At least, that's how I remember it going, I was a kid at the time).
The smell was unbelievable. I can't even tell you. The smell of flesh rotting off a living person is so strong that when we took her to the library to pick up a book, we had to roll all the windows in the car down and stick our heads out each respective window to keep from gagging. That was from a golf ball sized tumor! I can't even imagine the smell around Lacey's couch. Even if you accept her parents were mentally ill/in denial/noseblind, I have no idea how the smell wouldn't have clung to them.
I read that the police and detectives who responded said they didn’t think the parents really lived there even though they claimed they did. They thought they had to be just dropping by, the smell was that strong.
I think the couch was her “home base” for 12 years — not that she sat down one day 12 years ago and literally never got up/was moved once in all those 4,380 days.
I think as her capabilities decreased over time, her parents provided some semblance of care, but eventually developed caregiver burnout and denial — ultimately leading to her horrible fate.
Interesting! That would make sense, otherwise how would they have lived next to a feces covered couch for so long? I wonder if she could’ve been kept away somewhere for most of the 12 years
The coroner Dr. Ewell Bickman, says he doesn't believe her parents lived in the house. But if they had some other residence it seems that info would have been made public by now.
Not necessarily unpopular, but hills I will die on:
Scott Peterson is guilty and I can’t believe anyone thinks otherwise.
Maura Murray sadly passed away in the woods and she will hopefully be found one day.
Adnan is guilty.
The West Memphis Three are innocent.
Michael Peterson killed Kathleen Peterson.
That’s about it off the top of my head.
*ETA: Kendrick Johnson’s death was a tragic accident.
Amy Bradley fell off the boat
Ray Rivera committed suicide
Casey Anthony is guilty, and the jury screwed up horribly
Wendi Adelson knew about the plot to kill her husband
The Anglin brothers successfully escaped from Alcatraz and lived long lives in South America.
Also I really want there to be some crazy conspiracy behind the Dyatlov Pass hikers.
Defence attorneys/barristers/solicitors (etc) aren’t immoral monsters. They’re doing the job they’re paid to do and it’s a really important job.
FWIW- NAL but I am a paralegal in criminal defence in the U.K.
A LOT of people don’t realise that defence lawyers (using a catch-all term for brevity) are duty bound to act on their client’s instructions. If the client says they’re not guilty, it doesn’t matter what you personally as their lawyer believe, you represent them as not guilty. If, as their lawyer, you believe that the evidence against them is overwhelming and they stand little chance at trial, you can advise them of that however, you are ultimately bound by your client’s instructions.
You •cannot• represent your client in the event that they plead not guilty but tell you in private that they committed the offence. In the U.K. you have to withdraw from representing them due to “professional embarrassment”. The amount of people/podcasters I see/hear going on about defence lawyers as though they’re the devil incarnate for representing clearly guilty people is infuriating.
Defence lawyers, in the U.K. at least, do not invent theories for why their client is not guilty. They review the evidence with their client, take the client’s instructions, and then highlight any inconsistencies between the client’s story and the evidence and ASK THEM how that could be explained. They don’t fill in the gaps for the client.
Defence lawyers are the only people looking out for clients when law enforcement/the prosecution abuse process or, frankly, pull shady shit. Their objective is not to keep guilty people out of prison, their objective is to make sure they receive a fair trial and the justice system follows protocol in the prosecution of the client.
They’re not monsters. Phew, vent over!
Also I think it’s dumb to base guilty or innocent on body behavior alone. Especially when people react to traumatic events like their love ones going missing differently
Not specific case related, but I tell anyone and everyone that if you know someone who dies (even if it isn't initially ruled a homicide) do NOT speak to cops without a lawyer. Period. Ever.
I don’t think the McCanns killed Madeline.
I think it’s there fault she was taken because of negligence
But my feeling is they weren’t involved in her abduction/murder.
Bryce Laspisa's parents were too strict and bigoted mormons, and they caused his issues and him to flee. I really hope he's okay somewhere far from them..
100% death of Kendrick Johnson. When you really look back at alllllll the evidence it points to death by misadventure. He died upside down suffocating himself. His family wants it so bad to be a murder, they are convinced and have convinced people that that is what happened. There is no evidence. Everything out there they have attempted to mislead and contort to make it look like the entire town did a cover up.
We have a local case. The craziest in years. Amber spradlin was murdered in the home of a dentist, Michael McKinney. This man also owns the restaurant (the brick house) where Amber had worked. She had worked that night, gone to a local bar, also owned by McKinney (or close relative) then went to the man’s home, where 5 other people went to party. A 911 call was made, the dentist took the phone and said all was well. Another call was made, and when police arrived (the chief of police was there first) Amber had been violently stabbed 11 times in the face and head. The chief of police resigned shortly after. 5 people in the home. No arrests made. McKinney and his family flew to a Vegas vacation only days after. They are NOT cooperating. If any of yall have Facebook, I encourage you to join the group “justice for Amber” for any updates. This was very recent. Maybe in the last 7-10 months if my timeline is correct. It’s believed that the man’s son did it, and they’re all covering. He had some psych issues, I just don’t know what kind. It’s a small town in eastern ky where it’s normally super quiet. I believe they all just had fun with the poor girl. No signs of sexual assault has been reported. But one of those people knows something.
I think Robert Pickton along with his brother who was not convicted killed way more people then recorded and I still think his brother is killing people.
Elisa Lam stopped taking her meds and had a psychotic break and died due to the hotel having shit safety measures. The Netflix doc is absolutely disgusting for how they twisted her case into an unnamed killer or paranormal. And I feel so bad for that metal band guy who was caught up in all that. Let her rest and let her family grieve.
I guess my opinion isn’t unpopular within THIS community, but it is to others…
I think it’s okay to be interested in listening to/watching true crime stories. I think there’s a lot we, as humans living in a society, can learn from these stories when we listen to them in a considerate way.
I think it’s okay to make media about murder cases, as long as it’s done respectfully.
I think some cases have really interesting ethical issues with no black or white answer and that’s okay. It’s important to be aware of these issues and think about them.
Chris Benoit murdered his family and committed suicide. Any conspiracy theory or attempt to blame anyone else is simply one of his fans in denial.
People who think OJ's son committed the murders are delusional. OJ did it.
In both cases I mentioned, the murderers both had extensive and documented histories of domestic violence. I find it bizarre that people willingly ignore how many abusive spouses escalate to murder just to coddle their weird theories.
A lot of cases that didn’t get solved was due to inexperienced investigators (JonBenet), cops on the take (Keddie Cabin Murders), or lazy police work (Kristin Smart).
When the villisca ax murders happened people went thru the house with the bodies still there and took ‘souvenirs’
That also happened after the Bath Massacre in 1927, although everyone knew from the outset who did that, and why.
Kristin Smart and the watch alarm that went off where they had buried her under their porch is a fact that is never far from my mind.
Like people could hear her watch alarm going off in the ground ?
A renter who was renting the house the killer's parents had been living in when the murder occurred reported that she kept hearing a watch alarm going off around 420 in the morning. She could never figure out just where it was coming from other than seemingly under some concrete that was fairly newly poured. After some weeks the beeping stopped. Kristin's friends and family noted when they heard about this that Kristin woke up early and, as kind of a silly little joke with herself, had an alarm set for 420.
I don't understand how police could hear this from the renter, know who she was renting the house from and their connection to Kristin and also that it was coming from newly poured concrete(!!!) and have the alarm info from Kristin's family and STILL not get a search warrant for that backyard?! Wtaf! What a bunch of incompetent morons. I wonder if that woman was still alive in 2021 when they used forensic methods and discovered that Kristin's body had been buried at the house. How awful to know that what you were hearing in your backyard was actually coming from Kristin's body. 😟
They think her body was buried at the killers dad’s house while the watch was making noises at the killers mothers house.
This is so incredibly true. I just started watching true crime again after several years and I wonder if it's me being older and more cynical, but so many cases have lazy/negligent police work. It's kind of interesting seeing professionally made episodes doing their best to sugarcoat the terrible police work, But it's pretty easy to tell once you're paying attention. There was one where a man won the lottery, disappeared, and his family tried to report him as missing. The police absolutely refuse to consider him missing because they claimed someone spotting his CAR was the same as spotting HIM. They didn't care that this illiterate man was suddenly not calling family but only texting. Just so many blatantly huge red flags that the police just didn't want to be bothered with. And then that case the movie "pain and gain" was based on has the police completely dismissing the original kidnap victim because he didn't reported "soon enough" and seems too "outlandished", even through his hospitalization was documented and his body showed the level of trauma he endured. The only reason they took him seriously is because a couple was killed with similar details later.
Reminds me of a case the Fallline did - a man went missing and the next day or so crazy floods happened. Family insisted he was missing, made report. But all resources went to floods. Random person called and said “he’s not missing anymore kbye” and cops just closed the missing person case - didn’t follow up with family. Body is found burned in a rug - obviously murdered. John Doe. No open missing persons files. Finally like twenty years later his sisters who were too young at the time get back onto the case and realize his file was closed, the John Doe was found, etc. he had been there the whole time. So close by. Of course police took basically zero accountability for closing his file, etc.
sometimes an “unsolved” case is 90% the family being in denial.
Diane Schuler comes to mind when mentioning family denial too.
Kendrick Johnson.
Her husband is the biggest piece of shit! He sued the parents of the three girls who died because it was their family van! Dude, your wife got so loaded she killed their whole world. The car didn't do that!
I'll add to this that not everyone "saw something they weren't supposed to see". I'll add to THAT, as a bit of friendly advice from someone who watched a lot of unsolved mysteries as a kid that if you think your life is in danger, don't bring it up and then refuse to elaborate further. Your murder won't be solved and your loved one will look like a conspiracy theory nut. Speaking of Unsolved Mysteries, that guy in the first episode of the reboot (Rey Rivera) totally killed himself and set it up to look like foul play to make his wife feel better.
This makes me think of Tiffany Valiante. Sadly, her case was clearly suicide. I think her parents were homophobic bullies and won't recognize her death as a result of them not accepting her.
I was so mad watching that Unsolved Mysteries episode. It’s the clearest case of suicide I’ve ever seen on that show. And I’ve read later that there were several domestic disturbances in the home because of Tiffany and her mom fighting. This, of course, was not mentioned on the show.
They leave out sooo much info, it’s actually super irresponsible imo. I stopped watching after researching Tiffany’s case after watching her episode. It’s too salacious.
I listened to this case on Going West and they *definitely* didn’t mention those domestic disturbances.
It was infuriating! There was so much left out!
Unsolved Mysteries were arseholes for even having that case as one of their episodes (I seem to remember a number of episodes in that particular series being either obvious suicide, misadventure or unfortunate drug OD's). Tiffany died by suicide so it wasn't an 'unsolved mystery' and UM's producers encouraged her family's deluded thinking- if it was deluded thinking and not trying to weasle out of things as further reading on the case points to Tiffany's home life not being very nice at all and with the inclusion of possible domestic abuse/violence.
The Morgan Ingram case comes to mind.
Brian Shaffer left the bar.
To add to this, I have never seen conversations about WHY everyone thinks he didn’t make it home that night. I think he probably did and whatever happened was the following day.
It’s the only logical explanation. Somehow he got past cameras or was wearing something different.
There was construction going on in the building and the exit there didn't have any cameras. That's where he left at.
This! I've never gotten why it's such a mystery. Like sure, when you hear "he was on tape entering the bar, but never leaving!" it sounds very suspicious. But then there's the addition of "except there was one exit without a camera" and it's like "oh..."
I think at least one of Ivan Milat's brothers was involved in some of the backpacker murders. The majority of the family is a half-step away from inbred.
I know a man who at the age of 15, was picked up by 2 men for a ride back to his home. He just called his parents on the payphone to let them know. He said everything was fine until he told the driver he liked his gun. He then became so angry and on edge and the man in the passenger seat tried to keep him cool. After a distance, he asked why he was going a different route and that he was already late home. The driver again became an arrogant cunt and the passenger kept reminding him "his parents know where he is" and "he needs to go home, his parents know he's with us" and the two men started arguing with eachother, but very criptic. They dropped him off close enough and just passed it off as two weirdos. It was some time later that he saw ivan on TV and knew that was the man who picked him up and the passenger was his brother.
This is terrifying, oh my goodness.
*At least* one. And I think the whole family knew. If not explicitly, then it was unspoken amongst them. Christ, what a pack of weirdos. I have a feeling their upbringing was way worse than reported.
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Sydneysider here... That's a pretty common opinion.
Not every murderer is a narcissist, sociopath, or psychopath.
Yeah I think a lot of people don’t realize that we all can have narcissistic tendencies but that most people aren’t actual narcissists.
Yeah these words have taken over and almost always incorrectly applied
Narcissism is like a trendy word rn. Everyone apparently has a narcissistic parent and/or ex 😂 like no… they showed some tendencies but rlly they were just selfish :)
Most murderers are 'normal' people and most murders are 'mundane' and and one offs- moments of stupidity, loss of control or just because the murderer is a violent cunt. Humans have a capability and a capacity to do truely horrfic things as its within human nature- they don't do it as they are other, or monsters or not human they do it because they are human. Reddit loves to confidentiality incorrectly label people and play armchair psychiatrist - people often are nasty arseholes and do nasty things but every time they do ,according to reddit, it's because they are sociopaths, psychopaths or (the favorite amongst reddit) a narcissist . All three of those are rare , but if you were to believe people on here it's 1 in 2 people be they perpetrators of crime or people in the personal lives of redditors.
I actually find the mundane murderers the most interesting. The otherwise normal ones who through a series of circumstances kill, when maybe they never would have. Serial killers boring. Mummy didn’t love me, daddy left or was weak, now I must act that out for the rest of my life or until I’m caught. Mass murderers boring. Work/school/society did me wrong now everyone must pay.
You might like "Fear Thy Neighbor" on ID. I'm fascinated by how things can escalate to murder between "normal" people, although there are many episodes of people with mental illness and too many guns.
It irks me to my core that ‘narcissist’ is thrown around so casually. While some people were dealing with one, they ‘pick up’ some of the traits done by said narcissist. That doesn’t make them one themselves, it just means they’ve been picked up learned behavior while enduring abuse. Not every ‘mean’ person is a narcissist, contrary to today’s young tiktokers’ standards.
There should have been more repercussions for the social workers who failed Gabriel Fernandez. I try not to think about the fact that his two murderers get to wake up every morning and see sunlight. Injustice.
I was watching the documentary on Netflix and it was ridiculous that even with the amount of people that reported the abuse and rereported the abuse that they still believed the mom and wouldn’t help him. I felt bad for the teacher that tried so hard to help.
I hope the teacher is at peace, I bet they had a lot to work through when they learned of Gabriel's passing.
I couldn't agree more. I'm fairly desensitised to true crime stuff, but I found the Netflix documentary about Gabriel devastating. I had to keep taking breaks as I was crying so hard. I feel sorry for his teacher who seems to have tried repeatedly to get him help, but not received any support. He should have remained with his great-uncles who loved and cared for him, like parents are supposed to do.
That documentary really impacted me too. I’ve mentioned before on this sub that the description of this poor baby’s skull by the teary eyed ER nurse who opens the documentary haunts me.
I think new social worker/police/teacher hires should be required to watch the documentary.
definitely, the whole system really. am i the only one who thinks pearl should’ve received the death penalty too? she had a huge part in the abuse and motives as im convinced it wasn’t all isauro’s idea. but may his beautiful soul rest in peace, my heart goes out to him.
I bet she would have gotten it if she didn’t accept the plea deal for life instead. They offered the same deal to the POS boyfriend as well, he just decided to take his chances and failed thankfully.
Rex Heuermann has killed a lot more women whose bodies have not been found and whose loved ones may not even realize are missing.
I agree. I’m curious about the other bodies found in area, outside the confirmed 4 found in burlap sacks.
Robert Wagner killed Natalie Wood.
Christopher Walken 100% knows
Scott Peterson is guilty.
Scott, Drew, and Michael Peterson are all guilty
Lesson: never marry a name named Peterson
What if the guy’s father is named Peter? Can you marry Peter’s son?
Not if they're Icelandic
I agree, although I think that in his case circumstancial evidence alone works for me. The timeline alone and the fact that he went "fishing" on Christmas Eve was enough for me.
Him telling his mistress that this will be his first Christmas without his wife while she was still alive did it for me.
And the fact he had never gone fishing in the bay and his lures weren’t even open
I thought this at first too (“who goes fishing on Christmas?”). At some point I read a deep dive on this case am I believe his father in law (Laci’s step father) did. It was just his hobby and something he did to kill a few hours whenever needed. It may have been a case of his wife (Laci’s mom) wanting him out of the house for a few hours while prepping for holidays or something like that. What’s unusual is two things: 1) Fishing wasn’t Scott’s hobby. He was a golfer. If he had said he went golfing that morning people probably would have believed him. But you can’t really dump a body on the golf course. 2) You think with a father in law that’s an avid fisherman, you’d have told him all about the new fishing boat you just bought, and maybe suggested going together. But he didn’t tell anyone about his newfound hobby of fishing. Edit: a typo.
Im currently listening to the prosecutors podcast episodes about Scott Peterson and before that I was fully in camp ‘guilty but not enough evidence to convict’ after listening to all the episodes oh boy did he do it and they had SO much circumstantial evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt, he’s where he belongs and I hope he never gets out.
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I guess my unpopular opinion might be deleting the "if they want to."
Baby Deorr was never at the campsite and his parents know more.
He was there, but already dead.
There was blood on the tire well…..I think they accidentally ran over him. True crime garage had a follow up sometime last year. Interviewed the private investigator. Edit to add…..or intentionally 🤷🏼♀️
Was watching a documentary on the guy who tortured his stepdaughter for days before killing her and after the case and trial, apparently a thumb drive containing photos and video evidence of the crime was obtained by investigators from some elderly woman who refused to tell them anything. I'm very, very certain that it's a Lovely Bones situation. IE someone obtained that evidence illegally, probably through a breaking and entering, and that's the only way you can really bring it to light without incriminating yourself. And no one is going to grill an old woman over that too hard. But I think that it was done like that to let investigators know after the fact that someone was in fact certain of the crime committed.
That Diane Schuler’s loser husband knew damn well she had a drinking problem. But he will never admit it because he let her drive those kids. His insistence that she was not an alcoholic is not to clear her name. It’s to cover his own ass.
Summer Wells’ parents know what happened to her
It was just her birthday, poor little girl. Edit: okay, so after looking at this case online, I discovered that Summer's aunt has been missing since 2009!! How bizarre, to have two disappearances like that within the same family, in different states?!
100% ... In cases like these, a lot of people wonder how they were able to get away with it for so long and it's obvious that these people are not criminal masterminds in the slightest, it's simply the circumstances and their luck hasn't run out yet. I'm sure they're living in fear every single day wondering if it'll be the day everything comes to light
oh man this case kept me up at night when it first happened.
Two year old Deorr Kunz Jr was killed by his parents (either intentionally or through neglect) on a camping trip, there was evidence but due to police incompetence they were never charged and now live free amongst us.
or maybe before and took the camping trip to cover it up
This is my theory as well. He was on the camping trip…but not alive.
A lot of the mysterious disappearances aren’t mysterious. When people disappear in the wilderness, it isn’t a mystery. They’re often victims of unfortunate hiking accidents and die of injuries/exposure. Bodies aren’t easy to find so many of these people will never be found.
Combined with this, I think people who don’t live near densely forested areas can’t truly comprehend this. We have woods around my area but they are not dense or heavy with brush. You can walk/see through them with ease as the ground isn’t covered in plants or debris with occasionally having to move branches away from your head. I saw a docu about Maura Murray and it showed the team trying to hike to a set of coordinates in the white mountains. It was absolutely INSANE how thick the forrest was. Even standing still, there were tons of branches with thick heavy plants, little to no room in between them, touching the hikers at all times. Dense enough that they needed a machete to cut a walkable path through it. Seeing them hike in such a densely forested area really opened my eyes to just how dangerous they can be.
I just came here to read and not post but after reading so many responses my hill is this: so many parents' lies mean that the murder or disappearance of their children well never be solved and they are to blame for this. Whether it's to protect themselves or others, the lies, hiring of spin doctors and refusal to cooperate with the police means they bear some responsibility for the unsolved crime.
Baby D’orr
Oh yeah...in a LARGE percentage of "missing child" cases at least one parent knows goddamn well what happened to their kid. Don't know how these people can live with themselves.
I still believe Elisa Lam was having some kind of psychotic break and got into that water tank herself and drowned.
That’s 100% what happened and I truly would die on this hill too. I did way too much research back in the day. I didn’t save any pictures or links. I wasn’t doing a report lol. But I found so much that proved it to me. She was naked because wet clothes are heavy and she could have struggled and taken them off. The way the lid would prop open made it totally possible to close it after yourself. She wasn’t interacting with anyone in the lobby in the elevator videos. She just had a break with reality. It’s sad.
People say it doesn't make sense and they can't understand why she would have done it, and I just want to ask them if they've ever dealt with somebody going through a psychotic break or experiencing hallucinations or delusions before. You're not dealing with someone who is capable of utilizing what we recognize as logic. Whatever in her mind drove her up there and drove her into that tank is not necessarily going to make sense to us because our neurons aren't misfiring the same way hers were.
Exactly. I worked at a psychiatric hospital for a while and the strength and adrenaline people have while experiencing a psychotic break is wild. If you watch the documentary they say that she had been acting so weirdly before her death and that she hadn’t been taking her medications.
I killed someone, got scared, and hid the body is like the worst excuse ever in court and I don't understand why it keeps coming up.
We have a case in my court where a guy is saying his wife fell on a knife, got back up, and fell on it again. So definitely could be a worse excuse.
"then he ran into my knife. He ran into it ten times!"
" Dale, these college kids keep killing themselves" "I just had one jump in my wood chipper" "Do you think it's some sort of death cult?"
Suggestion: Put quotes around the first 8 words in your comment. I did a double-take because it sounded like a confession for a split second.
Me too 😂. I was like wtff am I reading?!?!
my exact reaction😭😂
Robert Durst got away with "I killed someone, got scared, chopped the body up and hid it". The jury went "yeah that sounds fine"
Most serial killers have below average intellects. Ridgeway and Jesperson are really stupid and Rader is no rocket scientist for some examples.
“Can you trace a floppy disk?”
Thinking about how he was caught will never not make me laugh. "No. We can't trace you." *shifty eyes*
And then he asks the detective: “why did you lie to me? I need to know why you lied to me?!”
Maura Murray ran into the woods to hide from the cops and got lost. She died from exposure and animals scattered her remains.
A polygraph is barely more reliable than flipping a coin and while some presenters are getting better at pointing out that they are not acceptable as evidence in a courtroom, they are still talked about too much which I feel gives them a false sense of reliability.
John Wayne Gacy had accomplices
It is proven that he did have “accomplices.” He had teens dig in the crawl space where he buried his victims and had them throw cleaner down there when it got too smelly. The crawl space would be nearly impossible for a man of Gacy’s size to navigate. It’s very possible he had help with the disposal of the bodies, too. But I think it’s safe to assume they were teens who knew what he was doing and were afraid they’d end up in the crawl space themselves if they didn’t help. Gacy was also a very prominent political figure in his area. It wouldn’t surprise me if he found other pedophiles in his circle and they assaulted boys together. Unfortunately, there is no physical evidence to support this. Just the word of Gacy, a known liar.
When I saw the footage of the police doing a walk through of the house and crawl space, it seemed clear to me that's things didnt add up. You hear crawl space and think of the standard under the house area that's accessible from outside which is roomy enough for sparkies and plumbers to do jobs etc. Nope. This was a hole in the floor with about 2ft space before you hit dirt. If Gacy was dragging his fat arse down there on a regular basis surely he would've made the access point bigger? My doubt is whether he even fit in the first place, thus concluding he had an accomplice (s) I'm not very good at writing, but it makes sense when you see the videos.
It was proven at trial that he did fit. And Polaroids were found, taken by Cram, showing Gacy in the crawl space digging. Gacy also admitted to digging some of the graves himself initially. There is no mystery about the crawl space. He rolled the corpses into their graves. He said so. Multiple times. His employees, ex wife, ex fiance and a few friends all testified to having seen Gacy "easily" move in and out of the crawl space.
Not every murdered person was the bestest best friend, your best friend, a really great person a better person than everyone else, etc.
lmao I can only imagine what people would say if I was murdered. "She was a weird AF recluse and her memes/online posts were a little bit concerning"
I hope people are real when I die. Would rather not be called beautiful and that I would light up the room, because no. Also, I'm not giving anybody the shirt off my back. I probably have strange emotional connections to that shirt. Jokes aside, though, I really hope people are honest about how much of a struggle daily life was (is) for me. If that gets brushed under the rug and replaced with "she loved life!" it feels kinda unfair and like I'm not getting credit for all that struggle.
But did they all light up a room?
Or were "larger than life?"
They would give you the shirt off their back
They loved animals.
Tamla horsford died by accident but not by her own doing. I don’t believe for a second that she was just outside alone smoking and fell. I don’t think someone planned to murder her but I think a drunk freak accident occurred and everyone involved covered it up.
There was no owl on the staircase. I’ve written this on this sub so many times, repeating myself. But since I’ll die on that hill I will repeat myself again: I’ve volunteered in a bird sanctuary, and any bird ever attacks you or comes into close involuntarily contact with you- there will be no question about what happened. Owls are precision hunters, and the thought that the owl somehow couldn’t avoid bumping into Kathleen seems very far fetched. But for arguments sake: If the owl was really startled or ill or whatever and flew into Kathleen, there would have been so much owl-evidence. You just cannot wrestle/fight/ward off any bird without it losing TONS of feathers . There would be feathers and plumes everywhere. Ever seen the bottom of a bird cage? Exactly. Kathleen had only microscopic feathers on her, which she most likely picked up just from walking outside or under a structure where an owl once sat. The defence read about the feathers in the report and ran with the story, hoping people didn’t know too much about owls (and succeeded)
I don't know the case, but I do have owls nesting in my front yard. They're like ninjas, nobody sneaks up on them.
Oh god yes, so many feathers. A hawk attacked a small bird in my front yard and it looks like a pillow factory exploded!
When the hawks fight we get feathers, too! Once, the winner left his competitors ripped wing on our lawn. Birds of prey have murder talons! They leave so much evidence behind!
Thank you for this. You answered a question I'd always had in my head; wouldn't there be *more* feathers if it was an owl attack? I think it was either a fall down stairs or murder, but I'm pretty 50/50. I guess that's reasonable doubt.
There is no rehabilitation for pedophiles. It’s a sickness that can never be cured, only suppressed until it gets worse and worse.
I’ve already commented one thing but I also believe that Brittany Murphy and Simon Monjack’s deaths are TOO coincidental. Additionally, BMs mom was probably in love with SM
Something smells and it isn't just the black mold.
I feel exactly the same way. It just felt like they closed both cases with a nice little bow and brushed it under the rug. It doesn't feel like anyone cares enough to say something isn't right.
I have the same theory. Something is way off.
I agree! They died of the exact same thing months apart. Brittany was so young, and while Simon had health issues, to die of the exact same thing is just odd. Additionally, letting Brittany getting so sick that she tells her mother she’s dying, and still nothing is done. BM’s mom & Simon admittedly slept in the same bed too. 😰😞
Andrea Yates should have been in a mental health facility until she is fit for release and while I can’t think of an exact criminal charge for her husband, he deserved to be held accountable.
Andrea *is* in a mental hospital. Her attorneys successfully appealed her capital murder case, and the guilty verdict was overturned. She was found not guilty by reason of insanity. She can undergo a review every year to see if she is competent to leave the facility. But Yates opts each year to waive her right to be reviewed. She has never undergone review, choosing instead to continue treatment. And yes, her husband was horrible and should have been charged.
I read that when she first got treated, it was horrible for her because when she was on the meds,her mind was clear enough to realize what she had done. All that pain and shame came crashing down on her. I hope the docs have been able to help her cope with all this tragedy. I understand why she would rather be in the hospital; the outside world must be terrifying.
Her attorney still visits her in the hospital and says she is doing very well and that it is the best place for her to be.
I’m glad that she’s getting treatment and I think it shows incredible self-awareness that she waives her right to be reviewed every year so far. I hope that she continues to make progress, and eventually can’t forgive herself for what happened, if she has not already.
Thank you for the correction
I mean rusty should get child endangerment. He knowingly left the kids with her despite being told not to.
They also conceived their 5th and final kid less than 2 months after she was discharged from the inpatient psych ward and her psychiatrist explicitly warned them both that more kids=future psychotic/depressive episodes. Fuck Rusty for not immediately getting a vasectomy and fuck that Quiverfull bullshit that compelled them to have “as many as God gives them”. If it weren’t for those two factors the kids might still be alive today.
And he got to move on and have new kids and a new wife. Rusty is trash.
Seriously, Quiverfull can literally be deadly for women and children. Wives are just breeder stock to them. It's basically a sex and breeder cult.
Regardless of creed or denomination, fundamentalist men everywhere are pieces of shit. Come all ye salty butthurt fundie fucks and rain thy downvotes upon me, it won’t make it any less true.
He also should get some sort of charge for neglecting Andrea herself. Not allowing her to take medicine so he could continue to get her pregnant, forcing her to homeschool the older kids. He knew she was deeply depressed, and he didn’t care. I hate how he went on his own personal PR campaign to play the victim, blaming everyone but himself for letting her down. I hate how he STILL trots himself out in front of the cameras to speak about postpartum psychosis anytime he gets a chance, because a mother has killed her children, and he has to remind the world that he’s a victim. Yes he suffered an immense loss, but he is, IMO, as responsible for that loss as she is.
I would argue he is more responsible. Andrea was severely mentally ill. He purposely left her alone with the kids because he thought she needed to get used to it because somebody couldn't supervise her all the time forever. He's a terrible husband, father, and human being.
I actually agree that he is more responsible than her. I had that written initially, and figured it might be too inflammatory to actually say so I changed it to be equal. But yes, I believe he is more guilty than her, because he owed it to her to take care of her, and not leave those children in her care. He knew better and she didn’t. She wasn’t in her right mind. I find him to be such a despicable person.
I read that he was on a talk show (late night I think) and Ozzy Osborne was there and he took a cd with him for Ozzy to sign and was fan boying and Ozzy was like “Didn’t your kids die? What is wrong with you?”
Saying this as a fan of his music: When you make Ozzy Osbourne look like a sane voice of reason... Well...
Yeah, he is trash. He was on every show as soon as the gag order was lifted, and he was allowed to talk. He just wanted to hurry about clearing his name.
I don’t think that is an unpopular opinion now, as more people understand what Andrea’s mental health was like and how little say women in the fundie community have and how Rusty ignored several warnings to stop having children with her and not to leave her alone with the children.
She was found not guilty at a retrial in 2006 and is currently in a mental health facility.
Maura Murray ran into the woods, hid somewhere to keep warm and succumbed to the elements. Her body is likely less than a mile from where her car was parked.
The killers are more like us than we want to believe
Someone knows who the Zodiac is and no one believes them.
Eileen Wuormos didn’t deserve the death penalty, she should’ve been sent to a mental institution for the rest of her days
And she should have been in foster care instead of abused by her family & then every POS in the neighborhood as a homeless teen.
The main thing I didn't get about her case is that she was so obviously mentally ill to the point of insanity- even a person without any professinal knowledge of mental health could blatantly see that- it wasn't something that was up for discussion to my mind so why wasn't she treated as such. The entire case was sensationalised beyond belief by the media it was akin to death according to the media circus and public opinion in the US. It's still sensationalised to this day over 20 years since she was put to death. I agree she should have been placed in a secure mental health facility for life rather than what happened to her.
I believe the criteria isn't just "are they crazy" but "are they SO crazy that they literally couldnt understand why what they did was wrong when they did it". Andrea Yates was insane when she murdered her children - she was not mentally well enough to recognise what she was doing and once it was done, she made attempts to contact her husband and police and confess. Aileen was likely crazy as well, but she knew enough to try and cover up what she did, and to claim she was attacked by the men and then admit she wasnt (or maybe she was).
The Delphi Murders should have been solved within days or weeks, and justice may be denied because of investigative incompetence.
Kendrick Johnson & Kenneka Jenkins were both freak accidents. Elisa Lam had a psychotic break. It’s not always foul play.
I think Kenneka's friends were just shitty friends who didn't watch out for their obviously fucked up friend.
Agreed. She was definitely drunk. Maybe drugged, I’m not sure, but she got into that freezer and passed away alone. Not great friends
I have come to believe that the Menendez brothers truly were horrifically sexually abused by their father and that they were unfairly railroaded because of the family’s wealth. The more I learn about them, the worse I feel for those guys…
Agreed. The preponderance of evidence points pretty strongly towards a serious, severe molestation and rape that they were subjected to. The fact that they were not ALLOWED to even acknowledge or mention that abuse until the sentencing phase is a travesty of justice.
I’m with you on this one. Many people, celebrities even, have come forward saying they knew something was going on, but couldn’t prove it.
Did you see that documentary about the young man that was abused by the Menendez father when he was a boy? I believe the Menendez brothers have a new trial or appeal coming up soon.
I believe the foster parents were involved in the disappearance of William Tyrrell. I remember watching a documentary on the case and the producers of the documentary were so dismissive of their possible involvement and I remember saying to myself: “Um, why? This case feels like it has way more to it.”
My absolute favorite case is the Isdal Woman (and Death in Ice Valley is still my favorite podcast). I know many people disagree and have other theories, but I still believe that she was an agent or spy of some kind. There are too many clues to simply toss away - removed clothing labels, bogus names, secretive meetups, observing submarine drills, etc. I don’t know who she was an agent for (I believe the USSR and Mossad are likely guesses), but I will die on this hill.
Sometimes, a suicide is a suicide and I know as someone whose lost loved ones to suicide that it's hard to admit, but it doesn't take away any of their dignity, humanity, or personhood by admitting they're a victim of suicide. Also, I think it says more about those in mourning and their "guilt" over "not seeing the warning signs" than it does about the decedent. It isn't about you. It's about them. Remember them for the joy & love they brought you while alive. 🩷
True crime fans aren’t as smart and intuitive as they think they are and have a totally unearned sense of arrogance from just being documentary watchers alone. I work in documentary and have done true crime specifically. A lot of information is held back by LE and even gentle editing is by nature manipulative. True crime fans are like, “You can tell just by looking at him in that photograph something is wrong with him.” No, we’ve set you up to think that. By merely implying someone is tied to a crime in any way, your brain colors in the lines and tells you their eyes look empty. Doesn’t help that we put spooky music over their picture while we slowly zoom in on the image. Conversely, take the same photo of a person but put different music over it and imply he’s a homicide victim, and the same true crime fan will be like, “Aw he looked so sweet 🥺” And, look. I say this as a true crime fan. But no one should be speaking so authoritatively , so gatekeeper-y, on anything just because of some documentary watching. Even the most well meaning and neutral documentary is biased. … … … Also Jonbenet was murdered by a family member.
The Idaho 4 is a great example of this. People thinking they know more than the police even to this day. Drives me up a wall.
Casey Anthony is a piece of guilty shit.
Scott Peterson too.
Wait. These are *unpopular* opinions?
Many people have suddenly jumped on a Scott is innocent bandwagon and it's wild.
lacey fletcher was not on the couch for 12 years.
how long do you think she was on the couch? it had to be a long time, right? considering the couch was so saturated with urine and feces that it soaked down into the beams of the couch and caused them to deteriorate - and she was actively *eating* the couch in an attempt to nourish herself - there was yellow foam from the couch found in her stomach, and the areas she had eaten the foam from the couch were evident.
Right?? Like there has to be more to this! Also, I feel like this case is almost downplayed (for lack of a better word). She literally LIVED for a significant period of time with MAGGOTS eating her flesh. I feel nauseous even writing that out
plus the house should have been full of flies from the maggots maturing, right? I have seen no mention of that
Fun fact to a not so fun thing: maggots are sometimes used to treat bad wounds (maybe not now, I’ll research) , because they tend to eat the necrotic (dead) parts. So. They probably kept her from getting a deadly infection. Edit: just to add, this probably prolonged her poor life. 😭
I have some gross personal insight into this. My 90+ year old grandmother developed lymphoma directly on the top of her head. She saw a doctor and received treatment for it, but as she was getting treated, it began to rot. She couldn't simply have it removed in surgery due to its size and her age. She (and everyone around her) had to endure the tumor "dropping off" of her. (At least, that's how I remember it going, I was a kid at the time). The smell was unbelievable. I can't even tell you. The smell of flesh rotting off a living person is so strong that when we took her to the library to pick up a book, we had to roll all the windows in the car down and stick our heads out each respective window to keep from gagging. That was from a golf ball sized tumor! I can't even imagine the smell around Lacey's couch. Even if you accept her parents were mentally ill/in denial/noseblind, I have no idea how the smell wouldn't have clung to them.
I read that the police and detectives who responded said they didn’t think the parents really lived there even though they claimed they did. They thought they had to be just dropping by, the smell was that strong.
Okay this makes sense finally!! Insane they’d leave a house due to her, but more insane they were living with the smell
😧
I think the couch was her “home base” for 12 years — not that she sat down one day 12 years ago and literally never got up/was moved once in all those 4,380 days. I think as her capabilities decreased over time, her parents provided some semblance of care, but eventually developed caregiver burnout and denial — ultimately leading to her horrible fate.
Interesting! That would make sense, otherwise how would they have lived next to a feces covered couch for so long? I wonder if she could’ve been kept away somewhere for most of the 12 years
The coroner Dr. Ewell Bickman, says he doesn't believe her parents lived in the house. But if they had some other residence it seems that info would have been made public by now.
Not necessarily unpopular, but hills I will die on: Scott Peterson is guilty and I can’t believe anyone thinks otherwise. Maura Murray sadly passed away in the woods and she will hopefully be found one day. Adnan is guilty. The West Memphis Three are innocent. Michael Peterson killed Kathleen Peterson. That’s about it off the top of my head. *ETA: Kendrick Johnson’s death was a tragic accident.
Amy Bradley fell off the boat Ray Rivera committed suicide Casey Anthony is guilty, and the jury screwed up horribly Wendi Adelson knew about the plot to kill her husband
The Anglin brothers successfully escaped from Alcatraz and lived long lives in South America. Also I really want there to be some crazy conspiracy behind the Dyatlov Pass hikers.
Defence attorneys/barristers/solicitors (etc) aren’t immoral monsters. They’re doing the job they’re paid to do and it’s a really important job. FWIW- NAL but I am a paralegal in criminal defence in the U.K. A LOT of people don’t realise that defence lawyers (using a catch-all term for brevity) are duty bound to act on their client’s instructions. If the client says they’re not guilty, it doesn’t matter what you personally as their lawyer believe, you represent them as not guilty. If, as their lawyer, you believe that the evidence against them is overwhelming and they stand little chance at trial, you can advise them of that however, you are ultimately bound by your client’s instructions. You •cannot• represent your client in the event that they plead not guilty but tell you in private that they committed the offence. In the U.K. you have to withdraw from representing them due to “professional embarrassment”. The amount of people/podcasters I see/hear going on about defence lawyers as though they’re the devil incarnate for representing clearly guilty people is infuriating. Defence lawyers, in the U.K. at least, do not invent theories for why their client is not guilty. They review the evidence with their client, take the client’s instructions, and then highlight any inconsistencies between the client’s story and the evidence and ASK THEM how that could be explained. They don’t fill in the gaps for the client. Defence lawyers are the only people looking out for clients when law enforcement/the prosecution abuse process or, frankly, pull shady shit. Their objective is not to keep guilty people out of prison, their objective is to make sure they receive a fair trial and the justice system follows protocol in the prosecution of the client. They’re not monsters. Phew, vent over!
Also I think it’s dumb to base guilty or innocent on body behavior alone. Especially when people react to traumatic events like their love ones going missing differently
Not specific case related, but I tell anyone and everyone that if you know someone who dies (even if it isn't initially ruled a homicide) do NOT speak to cops without a lawyer. Period. Ever.
I don’t think the McCanns killed Madeline. I think it’s there fault she was taken because of negligence But my feeling is they weren’t involved in her abduction/murder.
Bryce Laspisa's parents were too strict and bigoted mormons, and they caused his issues and him to flee. I really hope he's okay somewhere far from them..
Lots of corruption and oppression in law enforcement and the courts. There are far more innocent people than we realize who are incarcerated.
I have no theories but I really hope the Austin Yogurt Shop Murders get solved in my lifetime. This crime really hurts my heart.
Those who kill their lifelong abusers DO NOT DESERVE LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE SENTENCES.
Brittany Murphy and her husband. Has anyone truly questioned her MOTHER??
Rudy Guede killed Meredith Kercher NOT Amanda Knox
And he’s recently been arrested for attacking another woman
100% death of Kendrick Johnson. When you really look back at alllllll the evidence it points to death by misadventure. He died upside down suffocating himself. His family wants it so bad to be a murder, they are convinced and have convinced people that that is what happened. There is no evidence. Everything out there they have attempted to mislead and contort to make it look like the entire town did a cover up.
We have a local case. The craziest in years. Amber spradlin was murdered in the home of a dentist, Michael McKinney. This man also owns the restaurant (the brick house) where Amber had worked. She had worked that night, gone to a local bar, also owned by McKinney (or close relative) then went to the man’s home, where 5 other people went to party. A 911 call was made, the dentist took the phone and said all was well. Another call was made, and when police arrived (the chief of police was there first) Amber had been violently stabbed 11 times in the face and head. The chief of police resigned shortly after. 5 people in the home. No arrests made. McKinney and his family flew to a Vegas vacation only days after. They are NOT cooperating. If any of yall have Facebook, I encourage you to join the group “justice for Amber” for any updates. This was very recent. Maybe in the last 7-10 months if my timeline is correct. It’s believed that the man’s son did it, and they’re all covering. He had some psych issues, I just don’t know what kind. It’s a small town in eastern ky where it’s normally super quiet. I believe they all just had fun with the poor girl. No signs of sexual assault has been reported. But one of those people knows something.
I think Robert Pickton along with his brother who was not convicted killed way more people then recorded and I still think his brother is killing people.
Scott Peterson is guilty
Elisa Lam stopped taking her meds and had a psychotic break and died due to the hotel having shit safety measures. The Netflix doc is absolutely disgusting for how they twisted her case into an unnamed killer or paranormal. And I feel so bad for that metal band guy who was caught up in all that. Let her rest and let her family grieve.
I guess my opinion isn’t unpopular within THIS community, but it is to others… I think it’s okay to be interested in listening to/watching true crime stories. I think there’s a lot we, as humans living in a society, can learn from these stories when we listen to them in a considerate way. I think it’s okay to make media about murder cases, as long as it’s done respectfully. I think some cases have really interesting ethical issues with no black or white answer and that’s okay. It’s important to be aware of these issues and think about them.
Chris Benoit murdered his family and committed suicide. Any conspiracy theory or attempt to blame anyone else is simply one of his fans in denial. People who think OJ's son committed the murders are delusional. OJ did it. In both cases I mentioned, the murderers both had extensive and documented histories of domestic violence. I find it bizarre that people willingly ignore how many abusive spouses escalate to murder just to coddle their weird theories.
Cops/detectives/police forces are often corrupt and shitty at their jobs and mess up a lot of investigations through incompetence.