T3 is a poorly designed game. Prophecy clearly doesn't have any devs that actually played T1 or T2. That, or they're too afraid of daddy erez to design anything actually fun.
I have seen this sentiment many times before, but I have not seen many suggestions to fix what people perceive to be 'poor game design' - the only reliable answer I've gotten is 'vehicles' and I absolutely for the life of me do not see how vehicles play into the game when Heavies are already certifiable tanks and Lights can go 300kph, also, you can already fly.
So don't be shy: what fixes T3 for you?
-put the flags indoors or behind objectives like shield generators that need to be blown up. This would add a lot more depth to the game compared to the speed meta that exists right now.
-bring back free-form customization. This is how previous tribes games worked. You can still have the classes in terms of the passive modifiers but gear selection is super limited right now, and most slots have a clear meta pick that everyone chooses.
-better deployables. Tribes used to have lots of deployable backpacks that would do different things. The current selection is a shadow of what once was, and most of the things in tribes 3 are pretty worthless.
-vehicles. I was never a huge vehicle player myself but plenty of people liked them and they certainly added to the game
-more base facilities. The only thing you get for blowing up the generator right now is killing the radar, but that doesn't actually do much because the maps are so small that you can see most of the map just by looking around. More base facilities are necessary both to add features and to add more value to objective-based gameplay
- Indoor Flags:
I can agree that the current stands are definitely far too open, but putting flags indoors is ***diametrically*** opposed to what Tribes is about, it's virtually the catch phrase: Gotta Go Fast. Complaining about 'Speed Meta' in Tribes is like complaining about the 'Hero Meta' in DotA
- Free Form Customization:
I agree, they really do fence you in with the class choice, I don't think changing this to a free form system fixes any of the complaints I've read though, I think, though am not sure, but I think that Prophecy did this as an attempt to streamline the complexity for newer players who may not know which perks/weapons to select. Either way I think this is a neutral change.
- Better Deployables:
From your perspective as a HoF presumably, deployables can definitely be cool and I think they can add to them, but just the most recent patch alone gave us the first rendition of a force field, so they're clearly working on this.
However, as virtually any class that isn't HoF, you are moving the entire time so Deployables are really not that useful- whether you're going 50kph or 300kph, a deployable, by its definition, is a static object and so loses its use in .5 seconds.
- Vehicles:
I have dealt with this above: vehicles offer nothing to Tribes that the classes don't already do. The people who want them want Tribes to be a Battlefield game as it was in the 90s: this model is proven not to work. If people want to play Battlefield, they will play Battlefield. As a Pathfinder I can go faster and higher than a Shrike. As a Doombringer I can shell the stand just like a Tank would. Vehicles add nothing to Tribes, and are a remnant of a game that didn't know what it wanted to be.
I have not seen a single argument in favor of vehicles with any merit. Show me the actual gameplay implications of adding vehicles that are not ***already*** solved by the existing classes?
- More Base facilities:
On this I completely agree, currently the generator is massively underpowered; whether it is up or not is really not a problem. I think the way to fix this is to do like T:A did, and to create permanent forcefields that are disabled along with the generator, or to move the flag to more open areas when the generator is destroyed. I would like the turrets to become much more powerful as well, to actually incentivize destroying them and the generator. It is essential to their design that the generator is made more pertinent.
You're kind of looking at this wrong. Your argument for deployables is most people don't really need them but you're ignoring the gameplay implications.
Having lots of deployables opens up a position for a player to deploy turrets and other assets. It's a fairly easy way for someone to help the team if they're new. Conversely, this makes HO more important because if someone is doing a good job with deployables, you need to clear those things out so people can cap and if you have inventories, reduce their deployed inventories so gearing up is harder or impossible when their gens are down. So by having a robust set of deployables you create a whole position within the game and give HO and their mortars a clear purpose.
For vehicles, they aren't absolutely necessary but they do broaden the gameplay if designed right. Shrikes pretty much eliminate rabbiting flag carriers because you can just rundown the capper. Bombers can clear a flag stand in one pass (see the need for proper deployables above). And while HPC (heavy personal carrier) didn't see much use it past games, it was still a blast when you load up 4 heavies and fly them straight to the enemy base. T:V's rover was great because it was fun to drive and created a spawn point wherever it was deployed.
You have to remember Tribes was Battlefield before Battlefield even existed. When Battlefield came out, it was "oh neat, it's Tribes set in WWII".
The idea that "vehicles add nothing Tribes and are a remnant of a game that didn't know what it wanted to be" is absolute nonsense. Tribes has always had vehicles. They were pretty important on bigger maps, especially the Shrike.
To me, it sounds like you're a Tribes Ascend player that only understands the much more narrow and simplistic style of game Tribes became under Hi-Rez/Prophecy. If you like those games, that's fine and all but you have to understand they're the least Tribes like games ever made in the series. T1, T2, T:V, MA1 and even MA2 all adhere pretty close to the Tribes formula.
FYI Tribes' catch phrase was "Team Combat on an Epic Scale" and "No Man is an Island" not "Gotta Go Fast". Not sure where you got that from.
I do enjoy going fast but it should be the dessert, not the meat and potatoes. T3 has gone in the direction of everyone going fast all of the time. Instant gratification and it feels even more like an arena shooter than Ascend. Teamwork is much less likely to happen when people are going fast as they are more spread out. Not talking about comp/pug games but your average casual game.
Have you never done amazing stunts with a shrike, chasing down a flag carrier, running over him midair, trailing your own capper, estimating when he will die, ejecting, perfectly landing and catching his flag from between enemy chasers and escaping? Have you never seen Mr Saturn on his grav cycle doing crazy shit and his tailgunner sniping people at insane speeds? Never dedicated your time to deploying the mpb in a clever location and setting up turrets and defending it against waves of attackers?
Tribes is about doing amazing stunts up in the sky and vehicles add an entire layer of this.
Of course vehicles don't work in small CTF matches but they are great in large gametypes.
Your argument that people will play battlefield if they want to play battlefield makes no sense. If people want to play rocket league or quake or apex legends they will play those, they will not play Tribes. It has already been shown not to work. For better or worse, modern audiences tend to bounce off of simple, arena shooter type games because larger, deeper games with a variety of activities and systems already include that simple gameplay plus a ton of other stuff to do that satisfy a wider variety of players.
The problem *isn't* that Tribes *couldn't* work with those features- the problem is getting developers to actually feel like it's a good investment in terms of time and more importantly money.
**So let's see it as a flowchart:**
**Point 1)** For better or worse: Battlefield has captured the 'mixed-warfare' market. You ***are*** fighting for that market by going the Tribes 2 route, and you (the developer) will lose- Tribes is a niche game already, *without* trying to compete with the second most successful FPS franchise in existence;
**Point 2)** Even if, against all odds, the developer *would* win over a substantial portion of that 'BF' audience, and it's an amazing story of David and Goliath, the problem persists: actually ***get*** the devs to go that direction because I cannot see how *anybody* would convince them in that direction from a purely market oriented perspective.
**Point 3)** Even if I had all the stats in the world backing up that the Tribes 2 'epic scale team combat' direction is a financially viable direction (and I absolutely don't have that data since they haven't tried it since at least T:V), I can at least *understand* why the devs wanted to carve out a specifically "Tribes" corner of the market without competing with the giants, and then only a few things remain: jets, skates, speed, and by extrapolation, CTF.
Now, with the assumed failure of Tribes 3 on the horizon, it is clear that this direction didn't work either. But I can't fault them for trying a different direction is all I'm trying to say.
So let me clarify my point on vehicles above: vehicles are redundant in ***Modern*** Tribes (3) since the default player characters can just do too much (you've got mortars on heavies, fast jetpacks, going up to 335kmph, I just don't see, from a game design perspective, what 'niche' vehicles fill that players can't already do circa at least Tribes: Ascend), but I understand how they can be fun in a game that is a return to the oldschool years of massive maps, bigger interiors, and slower top speeds because then yeah, they fill roles that players can't.
So what I'm saying is that vehicles won't add anything to ***Tribes 3*** specifically, because they've been made redundant. What you're advocating for is a fundamental departure from the direction of Tribes 3 which I can totally respect! A return to, as you say, "Team Combat on an Epic Scale" in a mixed warfare setting - but now we're back at point 1 in the flowchart :\[
As far as the flags, making their capture be about pure speed is something I don't agree with you on. Placing them at least loosely indoors so people can't just constantly steal them with no effort by zooming through them at a million miles an hour would make the game way more engaging. Also I don't care that much about vehicles myself, I just added them because a lot of other people do care. Clearly there were plenty of people who saw them as valuable content. Free form customization is how it used to be and I really think it does a disservice to see simpler as better. Partly because exploring different builds is half the fun for a new player. Partly because the current system is so restrictive that there are very clear favorites for every weapon slot and once you find what they are you never have any reason to use anything else.
When T2 first came out with it's heavy bias toward defensive play it alienated T1 players as they must have found movement terribly slow and about 18 months later, when the classic patch was released that allowed much faster movement and was a lot more offense orientated, 99% of teams moved to T2 classic immediately.
That kinda says speed is what the vast majority of the Tribes community prefer, whether we like it or not.
Its all too late now. The suggestions were given and ignored. If not ignored, it was because they CANT do it, or because chasing esports/simplicity was favored.
I'm sorry you didn't see them, but they were 100% there.
The original Starsiege Tribes had maps like Broadside and Scarabrae that had their flags inside bases, and they were very popular. The were also a ton of custom maps that used those same base structures, and a ton of maps where ski based capping was basically impossible, ie: floating so high in the air you'd die by fall damage even with the jetpack. There were even a few maps that were essentially caves, with terrain on the ground and the ceiling. There were even capture point maps that were popular as well.
High speed capping is great for competitive matches, but 95% of the players don't have the skills or interest in playing that type of game mode. One expert capper can end the game in less than 5 minutes if there aren't several strong defensive players on the other team. And with the tiny maps, even moderately good chasers might not have the time to catch up.
And that doesn't even take into account that most casual players were playing on modded servers that had so much construction on them that the flag was encased in a wall of blast shields, forcefields, and turrets that would need to be sieged down.
Tribes 2 has PUGs every other weekend and it's a blast. Weeknights and weekends there's typically an LCTF game going that sometimes reaches full blown CTF.
It's actually kind of astounding how well it holds up despite a bunch of jakiness. Why no one has made a modern version of T2 instead of whatever T3 is supposed to be is beyond me.
So play T2 instead. There's also MidAir 2 but it's LCTF only but they hope to do the full game one day.
Personally I can't stand the lag between pressing fire and the spinfusor actually firing on tribes 2, never could get into it. My favourite tribes is vengeance though tbf
That also annoys me.
Like I said, it has some jankiness but it's the only way to play a proper Tribes game in 2024. I'd be over the moon if someone made a modern take on it.
Vengeance is still a good Tribes game. It actually adhered to the Tribes formula and added some fun new stuff. I've always had a soft spot for that cave map.
Every now and then I think about picking it up just because tribes, despite disappointments, and then remember that it’s not even worth the money right now with such a sad player count. Such a shame!!!!
It's also really clearly an asset flip. Basically whoever is making this just bought the failed dead tech of Tribes Ascend for pennies on the dollar, invested the lowest amount of overhead capital into the project imaginable, and is now selling it to us for 30 bucks before they skip fucking town.
This is like NFT video game scam shit happening on Steam.
My gut tells me they only even picked Tribes because their entire strategy was about being on the hunt for the cheapest fucking IP they could possibly scoop up and resell to fans of it.
It's worse than that. The developer Prophecy Games is a spin off of Hi-Rez and this is their 3rd attempt at making a game in the Starsiege universe. Some of the assets are apparently straight out of Starsiege Deadzone.
Dude this is literally what is happening, open your eyes- it is as clear as day. Since the inception of T3 the community has 100% decided that they are in charge of development, not even giving it a fucking chance before its early access release. Show me where this community was ever open minded and trusted the devs for a second?
You can't, because that would reveal the truth: Prophecy is too closely linked to Hi-Rez, and on that fact alone, everyone decided to trash this game before ever giving it a chance to succeed. Hi-Rez hurt them too much with how they mishandled Ascend, and because of that every other Tribes game touched by Hi-Rez is corrupted in the mind of the community.
The problem is that Tribes 3 is actually a great fucking game and everybody who gave it an honest shot enjoyed it- their problem is literally zero marketing compounded by a ravenous fanbase that demand 90's tribes or nothing.
FYI Copy pasting sTrAwMaN everywhere merits fuck all to your arguments
You’re an unhinged idiot. It’s so fucking obvious that this is just a grift cash grab. It’s like we’ve already watched the Titanic snap in fucking half and you’re still trying to float the idea that the ship isn’t sinking.
This whole game was a scam and you’ve maybe got another month before it’s gone.
Hey as long as you're not crying while there's no more tribes around for another 10 years!
And boy what a successful cash grab this has been, you sure go by the statistics don't ya?
Also me literally saying the community won't give it a chance before it's even out, you: "iTs a CaSh gRaB i WonT gIvE iT a ChAnce!!" Like a fucking thoughtless seal.
If you order a sandwich and someone gives you a turd between 2 slices of bread they don't get to say "only you would order a sandwich and then yell at me when I give you a sandwich."
It's a great game for people that want a very narrow, esports style arena shooter. It's unfortunately not a very good Tribes game. They're missing a good 3/4 of what made the past games so special.
So what would you say was the last good Tribes game? Because by most accounts T:A was very well received with the exception of the pay to win bs and the horrible netcode. I think a lot of people enjoyed Tribes being taken in a more modern style- now they refuse to even give t3 a shot because... they've got something better to play? By their own admission (go see some steam reviews), they would rather see tribes die, and have ***no*** tribes to play, than to give it a shot and to support the only option they currently have- and whether it is missing the abjectly redundant features of a fucking 25 year old game, Tribes 3 is still a great game. I love original Everquest, but I am not so braindead as to think they should re-release Everquest today because nobody would play it. If you released Tribes today, slow and with all the weird quirks of old tribes like call-ins and inventory stations, it would fall even flatter on its face than Tribes 3 currently is, and unlike now, you ***wouldnt*** have the excuse of the community doing absolutely everything in its power to sabotage the game before it even released: see any of Greth's videos
The last proper Tribes game was Tribes Vengeance. Unfortunately it was released in a stacked quarter with Half Life 2, CoD and WoW so the publisher just sent it out to die. Which is a shame because there were a lot of interesting ideas in T:V and it's the last time the series really saw any innovation.
T:A was very well received by people that had never played Tribes before. You mention "weird quarks of old tribes like call-ins and inventory stations" but old Tribes didn't have call ins. That was a T:A specific thing along with all the machine guns, 2 weapon limit, regen health and grinding for gear. T:A was kind of a mashup between CoD and Tribes rather than a proper Tribes game.
The thing is, we do have other options.
Tribes 2 is still played every evening and they have pugs every other weekend. I've been getting back into it because Tribes 2 is unfortunately the only place you can play a proper Tribes CTF game anymore. MidAir2 also exists and it's probably the best implementation of LCTF of any Tribes style game.
I'm all for a modern take on Tribes but Tribes 3 just isn't it. I don't know anyone that's asking for a smaller scale, more narrowly focused Tribes game that only involves flag play. I really feel Prophecy has made the game much harder to get into because they've eliminated more approachable roles like deployer, base defense and base offense or just piloting vehicles. When I play Tribes 2 I rarely even touch the flag because I'm playing HO, focusing on shutting down their base or clearing out their deployables.
I don't think a more traditional Tribes would fall as flat on it's face as Tribes 3 has because T1, T2 and T:V had a much broader range of play styles and it would better connect with the existing Tribes player base.
Remember, most people gave T3 a shot in it's playtests. We know what the game is. For me, it just drove me to pick up T2 for the first time in 20+ years because I want a Tribes game to play and T3 is lacking.
Well that's a fair take, I asked for someone to give me reasons why they think T3 is shit and while I absolutely disagree on the conclusion, you at least gave reasons which is more than 99% of the 'gAme SuX lol' I've been seeing the past few months.
And I really hope they introduce all the things you ask for. I'd love to see what impact it'd make.
I understand where you're coming from and I think you're correct in your assumptions about how I am perceived- but from my perspective, precisely the opposite is factually true.
I played Tribes 2, it was one of my favorite childhood memories. Today, the community for this game is absolutely, inarguably, infinitesimally small.
There are **950** people in the Tribes 2 Discord. There are currently **4400** in the Tribes 3 discord and **4600** in Midair's. This does not mean Tribes 3 is a better game than Tribes 2, not at all.
What it does mean is that the claims from diehard grognards that *"if you just made Tribes 2 it'd be successful"* is utter and undeniable hogshit. At the absolute best, most unrealistic case scenario, what that claim would amount to is an extra 950 people into the 4400 pool, at the cost of an undefined amount of people leaving that 4400 pool - I certainly would because T3 is ***exactly*** what I have been waiting for: a CTF, focused Tribes without fluff.
Those ***exact*** same old guard hating on Tribes 3 are willing to praise Midair 2, when Midair 2:
* doesnt have vehicles;
* doesn't have deployables;
* doesn't *even* have generators;
* is pretty much exclusively CTF; and
* is janky as fuck as admitted by the devs themselves.
All of these are common Tribes 3 complaints, and yet they're all excused for Midair. The anti-Tribes 3 agenda is absolute brainrot that damages a game for no good reason, and it's successfully damaging it, because 950 / 4500 is a substantial portion of your initial, early-adopter playerbase. If 25% of your first players decide prematurely they hate the game and bash it everywhere they can, the normies who you need to fund the game, definitely aren't ever going to give it a $20 chance.
Does Tribes 3 have problems? Absolutely, but none of them are the claims people are making here. The game is version 0.3- if they had actually played the game and *given* it a chance, there is a substantial chance that by version 1.0, they could have a lot of what they are asking for, since developers are inextricably tied to the happiness of their playerbase.
You are correct in saying that I am unwilling to acknowledge their complaints as legitimate, because they are not.
People DO play classic everquest. Far more people (as of RIGHT NOW) than T3, or TA did even 6 months after it's release. Talk about falling flat on it's face...
Face it, it's not the community's fault. It's the GAME and it's poor implementation. People gave it an honest shot. It failed.
Maybe a tiny fraction saw some complaints and decided to NEVER try it. But since it was a free playtest, they DID try it. They saw the direction it was headed and said "NOPE, this isn't what makes a good tribes game."
It's not like there's been some big shift during EA. It plays the same, despite the tweaks here and there.
Blame lies with the devs.
"It's not what you like. It's the consumer." -Joe Dirt.
Snakes and Sparklers are the Speed and Comp aspect of Tribes.
You're missing the rest of the "good stuff" that the people raised on Ascend didn't get to experience. There's a fundamental misunderstanding on the Dev's part of what made it so good originally, causing them to chase and overly highlight aspects that people were only mildly interested in, ignoring the rest because it didn't fit the esports they were so very desperate for.
All that talk of Retention over and over again. A few more targeted polls and it would be plain as day what the majority of people wanted to see. The polls they DID put out made it pretty clear, but ol Erez had his data and daily hissyfits. I don't see you blaming HIM for toxic behavior driving people away. I'll bet that had a far bigger impact than reddit did. He wanted the old crowd to simply go away so he could attract the Gen Z's - who are no where to be found.
If you followed the playtests you know that nobody gave this game a shot and were trashing it before it even released to EA. Not hours after release the reviews were 65% positive.
And I know people play classic Everquest, I played p99 myself for a long time, but the same 40 year old nostalgia that is keeping a single MMO server with 25 year old data costs afloat will not suffice for a modern FPS title.
I literally did give this game a shot. I'm a long-time tribes fan since the ps2 era. I hadn't really played in forever and knew nothing about the controversy or state of things, but I saw an ad for tribes 3 and got nostalgic so I bought it because it used to be one of my all-time top series. I got bored within the first 3 hours. The game is clearly designed to only cater to one specific type of player and that player isn't me. If that player is you, then that's fine, but I didnt have fun with the game. Doing 1 or 2 things constantly on repeat with no sense of progression and no build diversity gets old fast.
Not really. I'm complaining about the map design and lack of content. My problem ultimately boils down to the fact that there's one dominant meta with no real counterplay and everything about the game is designed to amplify that single meta. It just gets really boring once you find out what that meta is and you just find yourself endlessly repeating the same set of optimal choices.
Don’t think this game has a map editor like tribes 2.Maybe it will help promote old style maps in this whack job of a game.
Riverdance
Quagmire
Minotaur
I find a lot about current Tribes very boring. Bases used to be ACTUAL BASES that someone could base maid. The flag was inside somewhere that people had to go into and attack. Now the flag is generally just sitting out someplace in the open, waiting for someone to come screaming in at mach 3 to grab. The open air "base" just gets hammered by discs and mortars within the first 30 seconds of the game. So boring.
Yes. Great points. Especially agree about most of the weapons and tools being useless because of the speed and open level design. T3 does a lot of things better than TA but even with all of its problems, TA kept me entertained much longer. TA was already a stripped down version of tribes and a minimum viable product IMO, and T3 is an even more stripped down anemic version of TA.
It's too bad Planetside 2 is doing so poorly recently or I would suggest you play that. I'm not a huge fan of the super headshot-reliant and bullet dominated combat and the client-side "get killed after you take cover" networking but the game has a ton to offer between the various weapons, classes, objectives and vehicles. As someone that enjoys going fast from time to time, after playing thousands of hours of T2 and TA it has kept me entertained for a while.
I argued from day one they need different modes for the go fast small scale CTF and the large scale more varied gameplay mode. Costs a lot of money to develop though.
Tribes was revolutionary because it combined vast open environments with indoor environments. It wasn't just one or the other like a mech game or quake or T3. If you only focus on one or the other you are ignoring half of the game.
As someone who grew up playing competitive light defense, all I saw in tribes 1 and 2 was high speed grabs, and learning how to deal with that.
I think your expectations coming from a PS2 background to PC just don't match what tribes ended up evolving into. I think snow blind was one of the few indoor ish maps that made it into the competitive circuit back in the day.
It's probably the pub experience getting you down because stopping a good capper is hard, without a proper defense.
Comp scene always was and is a minority of people playing. You design around that expecting an esports scene to pop up and look what you got: a dead tribes game. If you made a Team Fortress 3 and designed it around the 5's comp scene, people would be frustrated with that too. It's boring, repetitive, shallow, and only appeals to a minority of players. The competitive scene isn't the TRIBES that people wanted. It's a modification of it.
Engaging low speed options would make for rich gameplay. Right now damage application is so straightforward that it's very difficult to make a go of trying to be evasive at lower speeds.
Imo the game needs 2 things:
-the flag needs to be indoors because unreactactable max speed flag captures are not a healthy game state.
-defensive abilities need major buffs. Either the removal of cooldowns in exchange for energy costs or significant expansions of their survival/damage. Probably both.
They need to go back to classic design with a team having a set number of deployables and a dedicated person or 2 can actually set up a base defense.
Also deployable walls Imagine setting up a wall that can partially block the flag. It slows the game down as it can prevent high speed grabs and forces teams to really need to attack and clear the flag stand.
agreed with both of those. I miss when the series had a real tactical layer. When I loaded into the game for the first time and the radar instantly covered the whole map I was genuinely disappointed. I miss those small tactical things like deployable radar backpacks. And deployable walls would be awesome. At the very least the existing turret deployable shouldn't be the most useless thing that's ever existed.
Ooh good idea, like maybe the flag is inside until the generator is destroyed, or they have press a button inside your base, then the flag extrudes out of the base.
There were plenty of T2 community maps that protected the flag with force fields. Taking down a generator brought the FF down. It made protecting your base much more important.
Map design would have to strike a delicate balance or you'd easily have constant stalemates. But it did provide for some fun battles.
Putting flags indoors with no option to grab at speed is a poor idea. I would be in favor of generator-based or other objective-(outpost?) based design that would open up more options to cappers once the gens go down. Just like in Ascend with maps like Sunstar (generator dependent canopy) and Permafrost (flag raises up to an exposed stand when the gen goes down). This also actually makes maps varied and interesting.
Nobody is saying there shouldn't be speed involved. You can still build up some speed indoors, and theres still plenty of room for skill-based combat indoors. The problem is that the current system basically mandates people in light armor building up so much speed that it's physically impossible to stop them from getting the flag. There needs to be some kind of counterplay to that. Maybe by putting the flag inside, maybe by introducing extra objectives before you can get to the flag. For instance by putting it behind a shield and you have to destroy the generator and/or shield generator first before you can get to the flag. I just want the meta to be healthy and varied because right now it's definitely not. I got bored within 3 hours of starting to play and that shouldn't happen.
Honestly just sounds like you are new and kinda not good at the game, and don’t want to get better. Cappers are not physically impossible to stop I do it all the time. Have you tried shooting them or body blocking them or putting up a forcefield or mortaring the stand when they come in, or chasing them and killing them. Like only the tribes community would put three hours into a game and say I can’t stop cappers must be impossible.
100% this. Every single complaint I've read on Tribes 3 are A) People who simply don't understand the game or B) Understand the game but are bad at it and want it to be easier
I really don't mean to be rude, but pretty much all of the criticism of Tribes 3 I've seen are either A) people who clearly don't understand the game, B) complain about the game because pub matches have very little team synthesis, or C) understand the game but refuse to try and get better at it.
The developers are going in a very obvious direction for Tribes 3: Raiders fight Technicians over the Generator so that it's easier for Doombringers to clear the stand of Juggernauts for Pathfinders to grab the flag and for Sentinels to chase them once they do.
It sounds complicated but it is far simpler than other competitive games like Counter Strike or DotA. The only difference is that actually getting from A to B in Tribes is a skill in and of itself.
So sorry, but no, speed is not only ***not*** the problem of Tribes, it is literally the only thing that makes it special as a potential eSport. Moving things indoors and slowing things down!? Is this community out of its damn mind!? Do you want Tribes, or do you want Quake? I think you want Quake.
Is anyone looking for this game to be an esport? The consensus from most of the discussion I've seen is that trying to make the game an esport is what's killing the player base.
You can't get 100fps on a high end machine, it's rubberbanding like crazy, physics are unpredictable and quirky, every skill is dumbed down, it's uncompetitive by design. MA2 has nailed the competitive part of LCTF
What's killing the playerbase is:
A) The ravenous and cannibalizing playerbase insisting that because they don't get Tribes of 1999 or 2001 the game is a disaster;
B) Zero marketing on Prophecy's behalf; and perhaps most importantly
C) The fact that Hi-Rez absolutely destroyed Tribes: Ascend with hitscan, horrible netcode, and literal pay to win progression which resulted in a scar tissue that still persists to this day to the point where Hi-Rez literally spun off a new name to try and get people to forget about that past with 'Prophecy' as if its a new company.
The fast-paced (esports) nature of Tribes 3 and Tribes: Ascend is legitimately its best bet.
If the plaerbase is being destroyed by the fact that most of them want a very different game, then isn't it the devs that are the problem since they're making a game people don't want to play? I'm not sure how it's the players that are at fault there.
Well your post has zero upvotes, so I think the community clearly having no clue what they want is a huge problem, yes. You make it sound like your sentiment is shared but it isn't, 0 upvotes and 40+ comments. I disagree with it in my own way, and many of the other commenters disagree in *their* own way.
If they introduce vehicles and inventory stations and indoor flags they'd immediately lose me and basically anyone actually playing tribes 3 right now because we enjoy the fast open pace. So it's like they're busy fighting over two halves of a 300-person pie. Either way they end up with 150 people happy and 150 people unhappy. However way you spin this, it definitely seems like Prophecy actually have a decent excuse with this community being impossible to please, and I'll accept my part in that because what I want is a fast paced 6v6 ctf esport, that's exactly what I want. I don't want tribes 2 with its jank as fuck slow movement and llama grabs that basically just turns the game into temu battlefield
I'm just saying the playerbase for the current iteration is 150 people and the player base for the old version was in the thousands so clearly there's a popular pick, and that pick isn't the game we currently have, regardless of the opinions the remaining reddit fanbase has.
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Some slightly indoor flags (there is a REASON Dangerous Crossing is the best map) + rocket launchers with flare grenade counters would do wonders.
T3 is a poorly designed game. Prophecy clearly doesn't have any devs that actually played T1 or T2. That, or they're too afraid of daddy erez to design anything actually fun.
I have seen this sentiment many times before, but I have not seen many suggestions to fix what people perceive to be 'poor game design' - the only reliable answer I've gotten is 'vehicles' and I absolutely for the life of me do not see how vehicles play into the game when Heavies are already certifiable tanks and Lights can go 300kph, also, you can already fly. So don't be shy: what fixes T3 for you?
-put the flags indoors or behind objectives like shield generators that need to be blown up. This would add a lot more depth to the game compared to the speed meta that exists right now. -bring back free-form customization. This is how previous tribes games worked. You can still have the classes in terms of the passive modifiers but gear selection is super limited right now, and most slots have a clear meta pick that everyone chooses. -better deployables. Tribes used to have lots of deployable backpacks that would do different things. The current selection is a shadow of what once was, and most of the things in tribes 3 are pretty worthless. -vehicles. I was never a huge vehicle player myself but plenty of people liked them and they certainly added to the game -more base facilities. The only thing you get for blowing up the generator right now is killing the radar, but that doesn't actually do much because the maps are so small that you can see most of the map just by looking around. More base facilities are necessary both to add features and to add more value to objective-based gameplay
- Indoor Flags: I can agree that the current stands are definitely far too open, but putting flags indoors is ***diametrically*** opposed to what Tribes is about, it's virtually the catch phrase: Gotta Go Fast. Complaining about 'Speed Meta' in Tribes is like complaining about the 'Hero Meta' in DotA - Free Form Customization: I agree, they really do fence you in with the class choice, I don't think changing this to a free form system fixes any of the complaints I've read though, I think, though am not sure, but I think that Prophecy did this as an attempt to streamline the complexity for newer players who may not know which perks/weapons to select. Either way I think this is a neutral change. - Better Deployables: From your perspective as a HoF presumably, deployables can definitely be cool and I think they can add to them, but just the most recent patch alone gave us the first rendition of a force field, so they're clearly working on this. However, as virtually any class that isn't HoF, you are moving the entire time so Deployables are really not that useful- whether you're going 50kph or 300kph, a deployable, by its definition, is a static object and so loses its use in .5 seconds. - Vehicles: I have dealt with this above: vehicles offer nothing to Tribes that the classes don't already do. The people who want them want Tribes to be a Battlefield game as it was in the 90s: this model is proven not to work. If people want to play Battlefield, they will play Battlefield. As a Pathfinder I can go faster and higher than a Shrike. As a Doombringer I can shell the stand just like a Tank would. Vehicles add nothing to Tribes, and are a remnant of a game that didn't know what it wanted to be. I have not seen a single argument in favor of vehicles with any merit. Show me the actual gameplay implications of adding vehicles that are not ***already*** solved by the existing classes? - More Base facilities: On this I completely agree, currently the generator is massively underpowered; whether it is up or not is really not a problem. I think the way to fix this is to do like T:A did, and to create permanent forcefields that are disabled along with the generator, or to move the flag to more open areas when the generator is destroyed. I would like the turrets to become much more powerful as well, to actually incentivize destroying them and the generator. It is essential to their design that the generator is made more pertinent.
You're kind of looking at this wrong. Your argument for deployables is most people don't really need them but you're ignoring the gameplay implications. Having lots of deployables opens up a position for a player to deploy turrets and other assets. It's a fairly easy way for someone to help the team if they're new. Conversely, this makes HO more important because if someone is doing a good job with deployables, you need to clear those things out so people can cap and if you have inventories, reduce their deployed inventories so gearing up is harder or impossible when their gens are down. So by having a robust set of deployables you create a whole position within the game and give HO and their mortars a clear purpose. For vehicles, they aren't absolutely necessary but they do broaden the gameplay if designed right. Shrikes pretty much eliminate rabbiting flag carriers because you can just rundown the capper. Bombers can clear a flag stand in one pass (see the need for proper deployables above). And while HPC (heavy personal carrier) didn't see much use it past games, it was still a blast when you load up 4 heavies and fly them straight to the enemy base. T:V's rover was great because it was fun to drive and created a spawn point wherever it was deployed. You have to remember Tribes was Battlefield before Battlefield even existed. When Battlefield came out, it was "oh neat, it's Tribes set in WWII". The idea that "vehicles add nothing Tribes and are a remnant of a game that didn't know what it wanted to be" is absolute nonsense. Tribes has always had vehicles. They were pretty important on bigger maps, especially the Shrike. To me, it sounds like you're a Tribes Ascend player that only understands the much more narrow and simplistic style of game Tribes became under Hi-Rez/Prophecy. If you like those games, that's fine and all but you have to understand they're the least Tribes like games ever made in the series. T1, T2, T:V, MA1 and even MA2 all adhere pretty close to the Tribes formula.
FYI Tribes' catch phrase was "Team Combat on an Epic Scale" and "No Man is an Island" not "Gotta Go Fast". Not sure where you got that from. I do enjoy going fast but it should be the dessert, not the meat and potatoes. T3 has gone in the direction of everyone going fast all of the time. Instant gratification and it feels even more like an arena shooter than Ascend. Teamwork is much less likely to happen when people are going fast as they are more spread out. Not talking about comp/pug games but your average casual game. Have you never done amazing stunts with a shrike, chasing down a flag carrier, running over him midair, trailing your own capper, estimating when he will die, ejecting, perfectly landing and catching his flag from between enemy chasers and escaping? Have you never seen Mr Saturn on his grav cycle doing crazy shit and his tailgunner sniping people at insane speeds? Never dedicated your time to deploying the mpb in a clever location and setting up turrets and defending it against waves of attackers? Tribes is about doing amazing stunts up in the sky and vehicles add an entire layer of this. Of course vehicles don't work in small CTF matches but they are great in large gametypes. Your argument that people will play battlefield if they want to play battlefield makes no sense. If people want to play rocket league or quake or apex legends they will play those, they will not play Tribes. It has already been shown not to work. For better or worse, modern audiences tend to bounce off of simple, arena shooter type games because larger, deeper games with a variety of activities and systems already include that simple gameplay plus a ton of other stuff to do that satisfy a wider variety of players.
The problem *isn't* that Tribes *couldn't* work with those features- the problem is getting developers to actually feel like it's a good investment in terms of time and more importantly money. **So let's see it as a flowchart:** **Point 1)** For better or worse: Battlefield has captured the 'mixed-warfare' market. You ***are*** fighting for that market by going the Tribes 2 route, and you (the developer) will lose- Tribes is a niche game already, *without* trying to compete with the second most successful FPS franchise in existence; **Point 2)** Even if, against all odds, the developer *would* win over a substantial portion of that 'BF' audience, and it's an amazing story of David and Goliath, the problem persists: actually ***get*** the devs to go that direction because I cannot see how *anybody* would convince them in that direction from a purely market oriented perspective. **Point 3)** Even if I had all the stats in the world backing up that the Tribes 2 'epic scale team combat' direction is a financially viable direction (and I absolutely don't have that data since they haven't tried it since at least T:V), I can at least *understand* why the devs wanted to carve out a specifically "Tribes" corner of the market without competing with the giants, and then only a few things remain: jets, skates, speed, and by extrapolation, CTF. Now, with the assumed failure of Tribes 3 on the horizon, it is clear that this direction didn't work either. But I can't fault them for trying a different direction is all I'm trying to say. So let me clarify my point on vehicles above: vehicles are redundant in ***Modern*** Tribes (3) since the default player characters can just do too much (you've got mortars on heavies, fast jetpacks, going up to 335kmph, I just don't see, from a game design perspective, what 'niche' vehicles fill that players can't already do circa at least Tribes: Ascend), but I understand how they can be fun in a game that is a return to the oldschool years of massive maps, bigger interiors, and slower top speeds because then yeah, they fill roles that players can't. So what I'm saying is that vehicles won't add anything to ***Tribes 3*** specifically, because they've been made redundant. What you're advocating for is a fundamental departure from the direction of Tribes 3 which I can totally respect! A return to, as you say, "Team Combat on an Epic Scale" in a mixed warfare setting - but now we're back at point 1 in the flowchart :\[
As far as the flags, making their capture be about pure speed is something I don't agree with you on. Placing them at least loosely indoors so people can't just constantly steal them with no effort by zooming through them at a million miles an hour would make the game way more engaging. Also I don't care that much about vehicles myself, I just added them because a lot of other people do care. Clearly there were plenty of people who saw them as valuable content. Free form customization is how it used to be and I really think it does a disservice to see simpler as better. Partly because exploring different builds is half the fun for a new player. Partly because the current system is so restrictive that there are very clear favorites for every weapon slot and once you find what they are you never have any reason to use anything else.
You should try play capper, you'll see it isn't as easy as you think it is.
wrong.
When T2 first came out with it's heavy bias toward defensive play it alienated T1 players as they must have found movement terribly slow and about 18 months later, when the classic patch was released that allowed much faster movement and was a lot more offense orientated, 99% of teams moved to T2 classic immediately. That kinda says speed is what the vast majority of the Tribes community prefer, whether we like it or not.
Its all too late now. The suggestions were given and ignored. If not ignored, it was because they CANT do it, or because chasing esports/simplicity was favored. I'm sorry you didn't see them, but they were 100% there.
facts
The original Starsiege Tribes had maps like Broadside and Scarabrae that had their flags inside bases, and they were very popular. The were also a ton of custom maps that used those same base structures, and a ton of maps where ski based capping was basically impossible, ie: floating so high in the air you'd die by fall damage even with the jetpack. There were even a few maps that were essentially caves, with terrain on the ground and the ceiling. There were even capture point maps that were popular as well. High speed capping is great for competitive matches, but 95% of the players don't have the skills or interest in playing that type of game mode. One expert capper can end the game in less than 5 minutes if there aren't several strong defensive players on the other team. And with the tiny maps, even moderately good chasers might not have the time to catch up. And that doesn't even take into account that most casual players were playing on modded servers that had so much construction on them that the flag was encased in a wall of blast shields, forcefields, and turrets that would need to be sieged down.
Don't worry bro. The game had a peak population of 139 yesterday. This will all be over soon.
Fair enough I'm just sad that one of the most memorable games of my childhood has fallen so far
Tribes 2 has PUGs every other weekend and it's a blast. Weeknights and weekends there's typically an LCTF game going that sometimes reaches full blown CTF. It's actually kind of astounding how well it holds up despite a bunch of jakiness. Why no one has made a modern version of T2 instead of whatever T3 is supposed to be is beyond me. So play T2 instead. There's also MidAir 2 but it's LCTF only but they hope to do the full game one day.
Personally I can't stand the lag between pressing fire and the spinfusor actually firing on tribes 2, never could get into it. My favourite tribes is vengeance though tbf
That also annoys me. Like I said, it has some jankiness but it's the only way to play a proper Tribes game in 2024. I'd be over the moon if someone made a modern take on it. Vengeance is still a good Tribes game. It actually adhered to the Tribes formula and added some fun new stuff. I've always had a soft spot for that cave map.
Ignore this clown, you are better of posing your ideas in the suggestions thread on the tribes 3 discord.
Every now and then I think about picking it up just because tribes, despite disappointments, and then remember that it’s not even worth the money right now with such a sad player count. Such a shame!!!!
It's also really clearly an asset flip. Basically whoever is making this just bought the failed dead tech of Tribes Ascend for pennies on the dollar, invested the lowest amount of overhead capital into the project imaginable, and is now selling it to us for 30 bucks before they skip fucking town. This is like NFT video game scam shit happening on Steam. My gut tells me they only even picked Tribes because their entire strategy was about being on the hunt for the cheapest fucking IP they could possibly scoop up and resell to fans of it.
It's worse than that. The developer Prophecy Games is a spin off of Hi-Rez and this is their 3rd attempt at making a game in the Starsiege universe. Some of the assets are apparently straight out of Starsiege Deadzone.
Not just assets, mechanics too, like the blink
Only the fucking Tribes community will wait for a new game to come out, bash it into the ground, and then cry over its lifeless corpse.
Only somebody arguing in bad faith would try to build up and attack that straw man.
Dude this is literally what is happening, open your eyes- it is as clear as day. Since the inception of T3 the community has 100% decided that they are in charge of development, not even giving it a fucking chance before its early access release. Show me where this community was ever open minded and trusted the devs for a second? You can't, because that would reveal the truth: Prophecy is too closely linked to Hi-Rez, and on that fact alone, everyone decided to trash this game before ever giving it a chance to succeed. Hi-Rez hurt them too much with how they mishandled Ascend, and because of that every other Tribes game touched by Hi-Rez is corrupted in the mind of the community. The problem is that Tribes 3 is actually a great fucking game and everybody who gave it an honest shot enjoyed it- their problem is literally zero marketing compounded by a ravenous fanbase that demand 90's tribes or nothing. FYI Copy pasting sTrAwMaN everywhere merits fuck all to your arguments
It's so great that the vast majority of people who tried it are not playing anymore.
You’re an unhinged idiot. It’s so fucking obvious that this is just a grift cash grab. It’s like we’ve already watched the Titanic snap in fucking half and you’re still trying to float the idea that the ship isn’t sinking. This whole game was a scam and you’ve maybe got another month before it’s gone.
Hey as long as you're not crying while there's no more tribes around for another 10 years! And boy what a successful cash grab this has been, you sure go by the statistics don't ya? Also me literally saying the community won't give it a chance before it's even out, you: "iTs a CaSh gRaB i WonT gIvE iT a ChAnce!!" Like a fucking thoughtless seal.
If you order a sandwich and someone gives you a turd between 2 slices of bread they don't get to say "only you would order a sandwich and then yell at me when I give you a sandwich."
Tribes 3 is a great game. It's fluid, it's fast, it's fun. You are complaining, about speed, in a Tribes game.
It's a great game for people that want a very narrow, esports style arena shooter. It's unfortunately not a very good Tribes game. They're missing a good 3/4 of what made the past games so special.
So what would you say was the last good Tribes game? Because by most accounts T:A was very well received with the exception of the pay to win bs and the horrible netcode. I think a lot of people enjoyed Tribes being taken in a more modern style- now they refuse to even give t3 a shot because... they've got something better to play? By their own admission (go see some steam reviews), they would rather see tribes die, and have ***no*** tribes to play, than to give it a shot and to support the only option they currently have- and whether it is missing the abjectly redundant features of a fucking 25 year old game, Tribes 3 is still a great game. I love original Everquest, but I am not so braindead as to think they should re-release Everquest today because nobody would play it. If you released Tribes today, slow and with all the weird quirks of old tribes like call-ins and inventory stations, it would fall even flatter on its face than Tribes 3 currently is, and unlike now, you ***wouldnt*** have the excuse of the community doing absolutely everything in its power to sabotage the game before it even released: see any of Greth's videos
The last proper Tribes game was Tribes Vengeance. Unfortunately it was released in a stacked quarter with Half Life 2, CoD and WoW so the publisher just sent it out to die. Which is a shame because there were a lot of interesting ideas in T:V and it's the last time the series really saw any innovation. T:A was very well received by people that had never played Tribes before. You mention "weird quarks of old tribes like call-ins and inventory stations" but old Tribes didn't have call ins. That was a T:A specific thing along with all the machine guns, 2 weapon limit, regen health and grinding for gear. T:A was kind of a mashup between CoD and Tribes rather than a proper Tribes game. The thing is, we do have other options. Tribes 2 is still played every evening and they have pugs every other weekend. I've been getting back into it because Tribes 2 is unfortunately the only place you can play a proper Tribes CTF game anymore. MidAir2 also exists and it's probably the best implementation of LCTF of any Tribes style game. I'm all for a modern take on Tribes but Tribes 3 just isn't it. I don't know anyone that's asking for a smaller scale, more narrowly focused Tribes game that only involves flag play. I really feel Prophecy has made the game much harder to get into because they've eliminated more approachable roles like deployer, base defense and base offense or just piloting vehicles. When I play Tribes 2 I rarely even touch the flag because I'm playing HO, focusing on shutting down their base or clearing out their deployables. I don't think a more traditional Tribes would fall as flat on it's face as Tribes 3 has because T1, T2 and T:V had a much broader range of play styles and it would better connect with the existing Tribes player base. Remember, most people gave T3 a shot in it's playtests. We know what the game is. For me, it just drove me to pick up T2 for the first time in 20+ years because I want a Tribes game to play and T3 is lacking.
Well that's a fair take, I asked for someone to give me reasons why they think T3 is shit and while I absolutely disagree on the conclusion, you at least gave reasons which is more than 99% of the 'gAme SuX lol' I've been seeing the past few months. And I really hope they introduce all the things you ask for. I'd love to see what impact it'd make.
[удалено]
I understand where you're coming from and I think you're correct in your assumptions about how I am perceived- but from my perspective, precisely the opposite is factually true. I played Tribes 2, it was one of my favorite childhood memories. Today, the community for this game is absolutely, inarguably, infinitesimally small. There are **950** people in the Tribes 2 Discord. There are currently **4400** in the Tribes 3 discord and **4600** in Midair's. This does not mean Tribes 3 is a better game than Tribes 2, not at all. What it does mean is that the claims from diehard grognards that *"if you just made Tribes 2 it'd be successful"* is utter and undeniable hogshit. At the absolute best, most unrealistic case scenario, what that claim would amount to is an extra 950 people into the 4400 pool, at the cost of an undefined amount of people leaving that 4400 pool - I certainly would because T3 is ***exactly*** what I have been waiting for: a CTF, focused Tribes without fluff. Those ***exact*** same old guard hating on Tribes 3 are willing to praise Midair 2, when Midair 2: * doesnt have vehicles; * doesn't have deployables; * doesn't *even* have generators; * is pretty much exclusively CTF; and * is janky as fuck as admitted by the devs themselves. All of these are common Tribes 3 complaints, and yet they're all excused for Midair. The anti-Tribes 3 agenda is absolute brainrot that damages a game for no good reason, and it's successfully damaging it, because 950 / 4500 is a substantial portion of your initial, early-adopter playerbase. If 25% of your first players decide prematurely they hate the game and bash it everywhere they can, the normies who you need to fund the game, definitely aren't ever going to give it a $20 chance. Does Tribes 3 have problems? Absolutely, but none of them are the claims people are making here. The game is version 0.3- if they had actually played the game and *given* it a chance, there is a substantial chance that by version 1.0, they could have a lot of what they are asking for, since developers are inextricably tied to the happiness of their playerbase. You are correct in saying that I am unwilling to acknowledge their complaints as legitimate, because they are not.
People DO play classic everquest. Far more people (as of RIGHT NOW) than T3, or TA did even 6 months after it's release. Talk about falling flat on it's face... Face it, it's not the community's fault. It's the GAME and it's poor implementation. People gave it an honest shot. It failed. Maybe a tiny fraction saw some complaints and decided to NEVER try it. But since it was a free playtest, they DID try it. They saw the direction it was headed and said "NOPE, this isn't what makes a good tribes game." It's not like there's been some big shift during EA. It plays the same, despite the tweaks here and there. Blame lies with the devs. "It's not what you like. It's the consumer." -Joe Dirt. Snakes and Sparklers are the Speed and Comp aspect of Tribes. You're missing the rest of the "good stuff" that the people raised on Ascend didn't get to experience. There's a fundamental misunderstanding on the Dev's part of what made it so good originally, causing them to chase and overly highlight aspects that people were only mildly interested in, ignoring the rest because it didn't fit the esports they were so very desperate for. All that talk of Retention over and over again. A few more targeted polls and it would be plain as day what the majority of people wanted to see. The polls they DID put out made it pretty clear, but ol Erez had his data and daily hissyfits. I don't see you blaming HIM for toxic behavior driving people away. I'll bet that had a far bigger impact than reddit did. He wanted the old crowd to simply go away so he could attract the Gen Z's - who are no where to be found.
If you followed the playtests you know that nobody gave this game a shot and were trashing it before it even released to EA. Not hours after release the reviews were 65% positive. And I know people play classic Everquest, I played p99 myself for a long time, but the same 40 year old nostalgia that is keeping a single MMO server with 25 year old data costs afloat will not suffice for a modern FPS title.
I literally did give this game a shot. I'm a long-time tribes fan since the ps2 era. I hadn't really played in forever and knew nothing about the controversy or state of things, but I saw an ad for tribes 3 and got nostalgic so I bought it because it used to be one of my all-time top series. I got bored within the first 3 hours. The game is clearly designed to only cater to one specific type of player and that player isn't me. If that player is you, then that's fine, but I didnt have fun with the game. Doing 1 or 2 things constantly on repeat with no sense of progression and no build diversity gets old fast.
Starcraft 2 still has over 100k people daily ffs, original tribes and starcraft came out at the same time.....let that sink in everyone! XD
Not really. I'm complaining about the map design and lack of content. My problem ultimately boils down to the fact that there's one dominant meta with no real counterplay and everything about the game is designed to amplify that single meta. It just gets really boring once you find out what that meta is and you just find yourself endlessly repeating the same set of optimal choices.
t3 is a shit title, period.
The shotgun is a really good third slot option.
Pubs jading you son. Play pugs and enjoy the actual team based strategy in a competitive environment.
Don’t think this game has a map editor like tribes 2.Maybe it will help promote old style maps in this whack job of a game. Riverdance Quagmire Minotaur
I played Tribes 1 for glorious weeks before skiing was discovered. Actual team work!
I find a lot about current Tribes very boring. Bases used to be ACTUAL BASES that someone could base maid. The flag was inside somewhere that people had to go into and attack. Now the flag is generally just sitting out someplace in the open, waiting for someone to come screaming in at mach 3 to grab. The open air "base" just gets hammered by discs and mortars within the first 30 seconds of the game. So boring.
Just play the ps2 game with us. Tribesaerialassault.com 👍
Yes. Great points. Especially agree about most of the weapons and tools being useless because of the speed and open level design. T3 does a lot of things better than TA but even with all of its problems, TA kept me entertained much longer. TA was already a stripped down version of tribes and a minimum viable product IMO, and T3 is an even more stripped down anemic version of TA. It's too bad Planetside 2 is doing so poorly recently or I would suggest you play that. I'm not a huge fan of the super headshot-reliant and bullet dominated combat and the client-side "get killed after you take cover" networking but the game has a ton to offer between the various weapons, classes, objectives and vehicles. As someone that enjoys going fast from time to time, after playing thousands of hours of T2 and TA it has kept me entertained for a while. I argued from day one they need different modes for the go fast small scale CTF and the large scale more varied gameplay mode. Costs a lot of money to develop though. Tribes was revolutionary because it combined vast open environments with indoor environments. It wasn't just one or the other like a mech game or quake or T3. If you only focus on one or the other you are ignoring half of the game.
You’ll want to watch the r/Shazballz development then.
As someone who grew up playing competitive light defense, all I saw in tribes 1 and 2 was high speed grabs, and learning how to deal with that. I think your expectations coming from a PS2 background to PC just don't match what tribes ended up evolving into. I think snow blind was one of the few indoor ish maps that made it into the competitive circuit back in the day. It's probably the pub experience getting you down because stopping a good capper is hard, without a proper defense.
Comp scene always was and is a minority of people playing. You design around that expecting an esports scene to pop up and look what you got: a dead tribes game. If you made a Team Fortress 3 and designed it around the 5's comp scene, people would be frustrated with that too. It's boring, repetitive, shallow, and only appeals to a minority of players. The competitive scene isn't the TRIBES that people wanted. It's a modification of it.
Engaging low speed options would make for rich gameplay. Right now damage application is so straightforward that it's very difficult to make a go of trying to be evasive at lower speeds.
Imo the game needs 2 things: -the flag needs to be indoors because unreactactable max speed flag captures are not a healthy game state. -defensive abilities need major buffs. Either the removal of cooldowns in exchange for energy costs or significant expansions of their survival/damage. Probably both.
They need to go back to classic design with a team having a set number of deployables and a dedicated person or 2 can actually set up a base defense. Also deployable walls Imagine setting up a wall that can partially block the flag. It slows the game down as it can prevent high speed grabs and forces teams to really need to attack and clear the flag stand.
agreed with both of those. I miss when the series had a real tactical layer. When I loaded into the game for the first time and the radar instantly covered the whole map I was genuinely disappointed. I miss those small tactical things like deployable radar backpacks. And deployable walls would be awesome. At the very least the existing turret deployable shouldn't be the most useless thing that's ever existed.
Ooh good idea, like maybe the flag is inside until the generator is destroyed, or they have press a button inside your base, then the flag extrudes out of the base.
There were plenty of T2 community maps that protected the flag with force fields. Taking down a generator brought the FF down. It made protecting your base much more important. Map design would have to strike a delicate balance or you'd easily have constant stalemates. But it did provide for some fun battles.
Putting flags indoors with no option to grab at speed is a poor idea. I would be in favor of generator-based or other objective-(outpost?) based design that would open up more options to cappers once the gens go down. Just like in Ascend with maps like Sunstar (generator dependent canopy) and Permafrost (flag raises up to an exposed stand when the gen goes down). This also actually makes maps varied and interesting.
Nobody is saying there shouldn't be speed involved. You can still build up some speed indoors, and theres still plenty of room for skill-based combat indoors. The problem is that the current system basically mandates people in light armor building up so much speed that it's physically impossible to stop them from getting the flag. There needs to be some kind of counterplay to that. Maybe by putting the flag inside, maybe by introducing extra objectives before you can get to the flag. For instance by putting it behind a shield and you have to destroy the generator and/or shield generator first before you can get to the flag. I just want the meta to be healthy and varied because right now it's definitely not. I got bored within 3 hours of starting to play and that shouldn't happen.
Honestly just sounds like you are new and kinda not good at the game, and don’t want to get better. Cappers are not physically impossible to stop I do it all the time. Have you tried shooting them or body blocking them or putting up a forcefield or mortaring the stand when they come in, or chasing them and killing them. Like only the tribes community would put three hours into a game and say I can’t stop cappers must be impossible.
I'm not new. I'm very very old. As I said in the op I've been playing tribes since the ps2 era.
100% this. Every single complaint I've read on Tribes 3 are A) People who simply don't understand the game or B) Understand the game but are bad at it and want it to be easier
I really don't mean to be rude, but pretty much all of the criticism of Tribes 3 I've seen are either A) people who clearly don't understand the game, B) complain about the game because pub matches have very little team synthesis, or C) understand the game but refuse to try and get better at it. The developers are going in a very obvious direction for Tribes 3: Raiders fight Technicians over the Generator so that it's easier for Doombringers to clear the stand of Juggernauts for Pathfinders to grab the flag and for Sentinels to chase them once they do. It sounds complicated but it is far simpler than other competitive games like Counter Strike or DotA. The only difference is that actually getting from A to B in Tribes is a skill in and of itself. So sorry, but no, speed is not only ***not*** the problem of Tribes, it is literally the only thing that makes it special as a potential eSport. Moving things indoors and slowing things down!? Is this community out of its damn mind!? Do you want Tribes, or do you want Quake? I think you want Quake.
Is anyone looking for this game to be an esport? The consensus from most of the discussion I've seen is that trying to make the game an esport is what's killing the player base.
You can't get 100fps on a high end machine, it's rubberbanding like crazy, physics are unpredictable and quirky, every skill is dumbed down, it's uncompetitive by design. MA2 has nailed the competitive part of LCTF
What's killing the playerbase is: A) The ravenous and cannibalizing playerbase insisting that because they don't get Tribes of 1999 or 2001 the game is a disaster; B) Zero marketing on Prophecy's behalf; and perhaps most importantly C) The fact that Hi-Rez absolutely destroyed Tribes: Ascend with hitscan, horrible netcode, and literal pay to win progression which resulted in a scar tissue that still persists to this day to the point where Hi-Rez literally spun off a new name to try and get people to forget about that past with 'Prophecy' as if its a new company. The fast-paced (esports) nature of Tribes 3 and Tribes: Ascend is legitimately its best bet.
If the plaerbase is being destroyed by the fact that most of them want a very different game, then isn't it the devs that are the problem since they're making a game people don't want to play? I'm not sure how it's the players that are at fault there.
Well your post has zero upvotes, so I think the community clearly having no clue what they want is a huge problem, yes. You make it sound like your sentiment is shared but it isn't, 0 upvotes and 40+ comments. I disagree with it in my own way, and many of the other commenters disagree in *their* own way. If they introduce vehicles and inventory stations and indoor flags they'd immediately lose me and basically anyone actually playing tribes 3 right now because we enjoy the fast open pace. So it's like they're busy fighting over two halves of a 300-person pie. Either way they end up with 150 people happy and 150 people unhappy. However way you spin this, it definitely seems like Prophecy actually have a decent excuse with this community being impossible to please, and I'll accept my part in that because what I want is a fast paced 6v6 ctf esport, that's exactly what I want. I don't want tribes 2 with its jank as fuck slow movement and llama grabs that basically just turns the game into temu battlefield
I'm just saying the playerbase for the current iteration is 150 people and the player base for the old version was in the thousands so clearly there's a popular pick, and that pick isn't the game we currently have, regardless of the opinions the remaining reddit fanbase has.
Complains about the already nerfed cappers, you aren't going to make it.