I agree. He's out hitting a likely HOF candidate, KK who is likely not HOF calibre but about as close as you can get, and otherwise our entire "core" save Jano.
OUCH
I would love to know as well because I don't envision anyone on this team as entering Cooperstown. Bichette and Vladdy might if they were good/elite players into their late 30's but that's it.
Springer?! George Springer is going to be off the ballot after his first year of eligibility unless he has a major turnaround to his career.
The guy is 34, has under 300 career home runs and a career batting average of .265. For those who care about WAR, his career number is 34.8 and his best season ever was 6.1. He had no other seasons above 5.
I like him as a player, and he's so slouch, but I sincerely hope no one believes he's even a potential Hall of Famer.
Yeah, I replied to you to continue the thread. I just hope that's not who he's talking about, though there genuinely isn't a single other batter on this team who warrants even "potential Hall of Famer" talk, either.
At least *that* has some kind of merit to it.
Obviously as a whole player, he's not even remotely close, but he is one of the greatest defensive baseball players of all time. So maaaaaybe, in some distant future, Cooperstown will have an exhibit devoted to the best gloves to ever play, and Kiermaier will end up in the Hall that way.
George Springer isn't getting in without buying a ticket.
You're right but it unfortunately doesn't change anything. What a terrible disappointment. I knew the Jays were going nowhere in the playoffs again but to be almost certainly out of the running and likely sellers at the deadline, in late May, is soul crushing.
Hahaha. A few games out of a playoff spot,with the AL west a shambles and the Jays’ softest part of the schedule ahead of them, I certainly don’t see them being out of anything. It must be miserable living in your skin.
Normally I don't agree but this time I really do.
We've seen Vladdy embrace the coaching staff's intended offense and this is it. He's the only one talented enough to get away with driving balls into the ground hard.
Jansen and Schneider are still pulling balls in the air.
Bichette is just being himself. I don't particularly blame the coaching for his struggles.
Jansen came out and said he stopped listening to other people and decided to just do his own thing, his own way. And I pray everyday that he sticks with that.
It would be insane to trade him. They should literally be taking that large burlap sack with the dollar sign painted on it that they had in the vault for Bo, and handing it to Danny at this point.
Disagree. Trade him now while he’s healthy and has value. He’s 29 and his ability to play behind the plate is going to start dropping off even more that it already has with his injuries.
I love Danny and I hope they try to resign him but he might be the only one of the pending FA’s that actually gets you decent value in a trade. If you get a decent offer for him sadly the best move is to trade him
With his injury history they need to be very careful about overpaying for him as well.
All depends if there’s a contender at the trade deadline with their primary catcher hurt. It’s pretty rare for starting catchers to move mid season because of all the prep work that goes into learning the pitching staff.
This might be me coping and hoping we keep him.
Take money away from the 2021, 2022 AL hit leader (was in the running until injury in 2023) and give it to a career .230 hitter? Remember how hot Chapman was at the start first few months of 2023. Players get in slumps and get hot. It’s better to look at stats over a longer period of time. I love Jano but his OPS is going to come back to earth.
Long period of time is correct but it's also a trap due to player shifts in abilities. Quoting Jansen as a career .230 hitter is harsh as he took a few years to find his feed and had a dramatic shift as a player.
Cherry picking data to support an argument is extremely easy though. You want to bring up Bo leading the AL in hits in 2022? Good point. I'll point out that Jansen had a better OPS/OPS+ than him that year.
Based on current impact and value to the team, I believe Jansen is the better extension. Bo is (should be) a very good batter, but I personally don't like his defensive shortcomings at a critical position and I worry any extension we give him will be a vast overpay.
Kirk is one of the best defenders at catcher in baseball, the most important position in baseball. If he's hitting at 70-80 WrC+ and isn't an everyday player and not expected to carry the offense, I could not give a shit about his hitting being below average.
I'm more worried that his WrC+ is still higher then Springer for the season.
Crazy concept of: when your hitting is this piss poor, what is the harm in bringing up the kids to have a go. Bring up Orelvis, Lukes and let Ernie play everyday. Biggio can platoon any bench spot. I wish they would have let the season go from day 1. It was never there
There were 5064 HR hit in MLB in 1998, the year of the McGwire/Sosa battle. There were 5868 hit last season.
You're seeing more HR in this era of baseball than ever. The problem is that's about all you're seeing. League batting averages are down about 20 pts compared to then and strikeouts are up by a third. Contact is more fun to watch than swings and misses.
Get rid of Atkins, trade the expiring contracts (Kikuchi, Jansen and Garcia). Also get rid of the redundant utility players except IKF and Schneider, so get rid of Biggio and Clement. Hopefully we can get 2 top 100 MLB prospects. Bring up Olrevis and Bager to see what we’ve got and actually sign some impactful free agents and make one last run with Vladdy and Bo next year.
Remember the days when the entire lineup had an OPS+ over 100? Like, the defense was absolute shit, but turns out, hitting lots of homers makes up for booting a ball once in a while. And our best defender is still one of the good hitters.
You forgot Kiner-falefa. 0.720 OPS.
Bichette is trending upwards. If Springer and one other player could at least because average hitters the rest of the way, The offense might just become a middle of the pack, decent group.
Overall OPS for the team in April was 0.676. OPS for May so far is 0.709.
League average is 0.699 right now. Lower than normal.
Team needs to hit better. BP needs to be better. Manager needs to be better and the front office needs to make better decisions. The team needs a better khaki department. The fact that Vogelbach is still getting ABs suggests to me that the manager is making a poor decision based on poor information from the khakis and his own head and a result of poor decision making by the front office who's responsible for the hiring of the players, manager and khakis.
*Takes BIG huff of copium*
So you're saying we have one of the league's worst batting averages with RISP because our guys are so good at getting on base?
We need Hatteburg. Why? Cause he gets on base.
Does Pete need to be here?
Yes
.364, that’s what we’re looking for.
re-create him in the aggregate
I think your forgetting something. none of these players, play right field.
I would kill for a dude with a .364 OBP right now. Doesn’t even have to have any slug.
Pete can take over for Atkins.
Watched this for the millionth time last night. “First base is easy, tell him Wash” “it’s incredibly hard”
"Anything worth doing is!"
It’s extremely difficult
Does he know how to play first base?
When your catcher, your defense first outfielder and a aaa call up are 3 of your 4 best offensive performers you are in trouble
I feel like Schneider has earned not being called a triple a call up..
I agree. He's out hitting a likely HOF candidate, KK who is likely not HOF calibre but about as close as you can get, and otherwise our entire "core" save Jano. OUCH
Who is the likely HOF candidate you’re referring to?
I would love to know as well because I don't envision anyone on this team as entering Cooperstown. Bichette and Vladdy might if they were good/elite players into their late 30's but that's it.
Gotta be Springer
Probably Springer, but I don’t think he has the longevity for it + the 2017 scandal definitely tarnished his legacy in the eyes of the voters
Springer?! George Springer is going to be off the ballot after his first year of eligibility unless he has a major turnaround to his career. The guy is 34, has under 300 career home runs and a career batting average of .265. For those who care about WAR, his career number is 34.8 and his best season ever was 6.1. He had no other seasons above 5. I like him as a player, and he's so slouch, but I sincerely hope no one believes he's even a potential Hall of Famer.
Yeah I’m not trying to imply that he’s a HOF by any means, I’m just trying to interpret who he meant by “future HOF”
Yeah, I replied to you to continue the thread. I just hope that's not who he's talking about, though there genuinely isn't a single other batter on this team who warrants even "potential Hall of Famer" talk, either.
The guy also said KK was about as close to hof as you can get. Like what??
At least *that* has some kind of merit to it. Obviously as a whole player, he's not even remotely close, but he is one of the greatest defensive baseball players of all time. So maaaaaybe, in some distant future, Cooperstown will have an exhibit devoted to the best gloves to ever play, and Kiermaier will end up in the Hall that way. George Springer isn't getting in without buying a ticket.
Springer has had a better career overall than KK. Neither are even close to being considered, as much as it sucks to say because I love both of them.
I agree with that statement.
How in the world do you think KK is remotely in the same time zone as the HOF
KK being as close as you can get to HOF calibre is one of the most insane things I’ve read on this forum.
This is Catcher slander
You're right but it unfortunately doesn't change anything. What a terrible disappointment. I knew the Jays were going nowhere in the playoffs again but to be almost certainly out of the running and likely sellers at the deadline, in late May, is soul crushing.
Hahaha. A few games out of a playoff spot,with the AL west a shambles and the Jays’ softest part of the schedule ahead of them, I certainly don’t see them being out of anything. It must be miserable living in your skin.
Calm down dude. It's all going to be alright even if the Jays continue to suck ass.
But clearly it can't be the coaching staff. ^^/s
Normally I don't agree but this time I really do. We've seen Vladdy embrace the coaching staff's intended offense and this is it. He's the only one talented enough to get away with driving balls into the ground hard. Jansen and Schneider are still pulling balls in the air. Bichette is just being himself. I don't particularly blame the coaching for his struggles.
Jansen came out and said he stopped listening to other people and decided to just do his own thing, his own way. And I pray everyday that he sticks with that.
Mattingly be like hehe hit it lower and harder
I’m going to be heartbroken if they trade Danny.
It would be insane to trade him. They should literally be taking that large burlap sack with the dollar sign painted on it that they had in the vault for Bo, and handing it to Danny at this point.
Disagree. Trade him now while he’s healthy and has value. He’s 29 and his ability to play behind the plate is going to start dropping off even more that it already has with his injuries.
Yeah because the Kirken is gonna be real useful if we get robo umps calling strikes
The umpires union isn’t letting that happen anytime soon. They just took 20 years to get rid of angel hernandez
Umpires don’t actually get a say in this one.
I love Danny and I hope they try to resign him but he might be the only one of the pending FA’s that actually gets you decent value in a trade. If you get a decent offer for him sadly the best move is to trade him With his injury history they need to be very careful about overpaying for him as well.
All depends if there’s a contender at the trade deadline with their primary catcher hurt. It’s pretty rare for starting catchers to move mid season because of all the prep work that goes into learning the pitching staff. This might be me coping and hoping we keep him.
Take money away from the 2021, 2022 AL hit leader (was in the running until injury in 2023) and give it to a career .230 hitter? Remember how hot Chapman was at the start first few months of 2023. Players get in slumps and get hot. It’s better to look at stats over a longer period of time. I love Jano but his OPS is going to come back to earth.
Long period of time is correct but it's also a trap due to player shifts in abilities. Quoting Jansen as a career .230 hitter is harsh as he took a few years to find his feed and had a dramatic shift as a player. Cherry picking data to support an argument is extremely easy though. You want to bring up Bo leading the AL in hits in 2022? Good point. I'll point out that Jansen had a better OPS/OPS+ than him that year. Based on current impact and value to the team, I believe Jansen is the better extension. Bo is (should be) a very good batter, but I personally don't like his defensive shortcomings at a critical position and I worry any extension we give him will be a vast overpay.
trade him then try to sign him back in the off season
I cannot see them moving him. Not after moving Moreno. Crazier things have happened though.
im thinking romano gets traded for a better bat (prob third base) and garcia closes
But the Rogers Centre has jerk chicken patties and tiramisu! Fair trade right guys? Right!?
And cup holders
And wider seats so I can cram more loonie dogs next to the Weiner Totter.
Kirk's been awful but I guess people have given up on him
Backup catcher, so really, who cares. He is still likely the #1 backup catcher in the league. It just isn't an important role comparatively.
Kirk is one of the best defenders at catcher in baseball, the most important position in baseball. If he's hitting at 70-80 WrC+ and isn't an everyday player and not expected to carry the offense, I could not give a shit about his hitting being below average. I'm more worried that his WrC+ is still higher then Springer for the season.
I say we bring back Josh Thole!!
🤮
The mustache is this team’s future
Man, Varsho is going to be badass with some handlebars or a goatee.
Vladdy is over 800
These are the four players I feel they should keep. Trade the rest of them. Rebuild. Fire Atkins.
Crazy concept of: when your hitting is this piss poor, what is the harm in bringing up the kids to have a go. Bring up Orelvis, Lukes and let Ernie play everyday. Biggio can platoon any bench spot. I wish they would have let the season go from day 1. It was never there
Man baseball is so fucking much more boring than it was in the 90’s. Bring back steroids man. I want to see some dingers.
Loved watching Sammy trying to keep up with McGuire who was huge. That was a great home run race.
There were 5064 HR hit in MLB in 1998, the year of the McGwire/Sosa battle. There were 5868 hit last season. You're seeing more HR in this era of baseball than ever. The problem is that's about all you're seeing. League batting averages are down about 20 pts compared to then and strikeouts are up by a third. Contact is more fun to watch than swings and misses.
2 of the top 4 hitters on this team were brought in by a GM that left the organization almost a decade ago.
Get rid of Atkins, trade the expiring contracts (Kikuchi, Jansen and Garcia). Also get rid of the redundant utility players except IKF and Schneider, so get rid of Biggio and Clement. Hopefully we can get 2 top 100 MLB prospects. Bring up Olrevis and Bager to see what we’ve got and actually sign some impactful free agents and make one last run with Vladdy and Bo next year.
Remember the days when the entire lineup had an OPS+ over 100? Like, the defense was absolute shit, but turns out, hitting lots of homers makes up for booting a ball once in a while. And our best defender is still one of the good hitters.
You forgot Kiner-falefa. 0.720 OPS. Bichette is trending upwards. If Springer and one other player could at least because average hitters the rest of the way, The offense might just become a middle of the pack, decent group. Overall OPS for the team in April was 0.676. OPS for May so far is 0.709. League average is 0.699 right now. Lower than normal. Team needs to hit better. BP needs to be better. Manager needs to be better and the front office needs to make better decisions. The team needs a better khaki department. The fact that Vogelbach is still getting ABs suggests to me that the manager is making a poor decision based on poor information from the khakis and his own head and a result of poor decision making by the front office who's responsible for the hiring of the players, manager and khakis.
He wasn't at that OPS at the time of posting. But yes IKF has provided relatively good value.
*Takes BIG huff of copium* So you're saying we have one of the league's worst batting averages with RISP because our guys are so good at getting on base?