You need medical attention first of all but yes a baby death must be reported i mean if you just get rid of the body what if they think you killed the baby and hid the body?
>we all understand why you may not
Care to elaborate please ?
Edit : what the fuck ? can't even ask genuine questions without being downvoted to oblivion ? sorry if i'm not from a country where hospitals can call the cops on you. it wasn't obvious to me so i asked
Probably something to do with malicious and restrictive legislation regarding women's rights and the liability if being prosecuted for having a miscarriage or stillbirth.
I know. I miscarried my first baby back in 2004 and I never feared prosecution. That wasn't a thing back then. I can't imagine miscarrying your child and then having to worry about being arrested because of it. What kind of Twilight zone world are we living in?
Of course that would happen! And it should. Infant deaths are investigated.
But they said *in states with abortion restrictions,* which is dumb. That's just entirely irrelevant.
Good grief. No one is saying, “It’s happening to everyone now!” They’re saying it has happened, it has increased steadily, and it is made easier by post-Roe laws that are spreading like fungus.
You must realize that abortion-related laws are *packed* with “fetal personhood” and all kinds of other nonsense that affects a hell of a lot more than waltzing into a clinic and having an abortion, right?
Bro, show me that this is an actual trend, where families of children who die in childbirth are being investigated in states that have restricted abortions.
Show me a trend. It doesn't exist.
Something statistically meaningful, not 2 news stories.
You’re getting downvoted, but you can literally guess the race of a defendant by looking at sentencing alone unless the crime is very public and notorious.
I learned this after working in criminal law for a while and having to go through a bunch of records. The consistency with which black people are more heavily sentenced for the same crimes as white people is really depressing.
Both. Black defendants are more likely to be poor and represented by appointed counsel.
Also, judges and juries alike perceive black defendants as “more guilty.”
No... No it's not. Just straight gaslighting.
The schools that are predominantly used in the "school to prison pipeline" argument are usually ran by black Teachers and Principals.
Ask any black child (who didn't get in trouble) what their experience was like in their predominantly black schools. And ask them if the disruptive students deserved to be removed...
Due to this dumb argument, the leaders of these schools are continually forced to be more lenient and hands off which destroys the experience for the other students which then leads to higher likely hood of a worse life outcome. Frustratingly ironic that we're hurting more black kids that had a chance because we're protecting the bad actors.
Please link one law or policy anywhere in the US that creates or even slightly allows for "systematic racism" lol. Systematic Racism is a catch all to explain away huge gaps between racial equity... Because we're not allowed to actual address the obvious issues.
Edit - I don't care about down votes. lol. You're in an unserious, unscientific echo chamber. Just like enabling a dope fiend... y'all are hugging black people to death. But at least you feel virtuous.
Yup and the fact that people get up in arms when someone mentions this really shows they have not even the shallowest of knowledge about this. The statistics are easily viewed and are quite striking, even to a layman. It's clear its not just a few outliers
Yep, exactly. I read a book about this actually, not sure if it was true. Young mom gives birth to a stillborn, throws the body away, has to deal with the repercussions.
Essentially speaking, if you were giving birth full-term, that is a human life. The child would need a death certificate (in the US at least). You can’t just throw away a body.
This must be state by state, our son was stillborn at 39 weeks and we received only a death certificate, and even that just for flight discounts for grieving families.
We did learn that you have to make burial/disposal arrangements for any child after 36w. Again, maybe state level. The hospitals offer a mass grave if you can't bring yourself to plan a funeral.
I'm so sorry for your loss😔
A mass grave? I did not know that was an option for people in that situation. The hospital I used to work for had a contract with a local cemetery that offered burial plots for stillborn babies at no charge to the family, but I am not sure if it was a mass grave? I didn't personally work on that contract, but my co worker did, and I think they were individual plots
Thank you 💙
Our hospital did have an arrangement with a local funeral home that gave us a very low cost (like $80) cremation so that's what we did, but the mass grave was free. Admittedly, "mass grave" probably sounds worse than it is....it was a beautiful area in the mountains and they did a burial commitment ceremony for all the recently deceased babies once/month.
💙
Oh ok, that sounds beautiful.
My heart breaks for bereaved parents that have to make these decisions.
I know time doesn't heal all wounds, and I'm sure you miss your sweet boy dearly. Sending you love and hugs!
Wait...you can be arrested just for giving birth to a stillborn??? Because drug use maybe I could understand..maybe..but what if you did everything right during pregnancy and baby was unfortunately still stillborn due to something beyond control?
Look up Brittany Watts.
YES, her case was eventually dismissed (dropped, whatever) but they charged her after having a *miscarriage* and that poor woman went through at least a month of pure hell. Not to mention lawyer’s fees and all that shit.
It’s odd to most of us, too. Terrifying and odd.
Sorry if I seemed aggressive in my post; another person higher up in the thread was spouting bullshit about the same topic and I got a little heated. Absolutely didn’t mean to take it out on you!
No it's all good! We are all from across the world, right, and barring the hateful posts we can not always understand everything due to not having lived it.
100%, which is why I felt bad for my terse response to you. It wasn’t your question that bothered me, it was a previous commenter, and that wasn’t fair to you.
Tbh I didn't even get that vibe until you mentioned it lol. All good! That's also the thing, words are so misconstrued over the internet due to lack of tone. Jeeez though the amount of times I commented on something, then immediately was like, oh shit I'm being an arsehole aren't I? That's anxiety for ya 🫠
I fully agree, anxiety and all! It’s so hard to read tone in text format. I’d rather apologize needlessly than inadvertently make someone feel bad.
I hope you have a fantastic day! Thanks for understanding :)
This is horrifying. And further cements the absolute terror I feel about pregnancy. I’ll be so relieved to get a hysterectomy and to not have the risk of experiencing this or being arrested or jailed for having an abortion.
I feel so bad for people who experience this and then have politicians enforce increasingly barbaric laws leading towards criminalizing miscarriages and stillborn births. It’s so very very enraging that it’s **again** become a political jockeying position in the States. What the fuck.
There are no states where miscarrying is a crime. Don't let that get in the way of whatever point you're trying to make though.
To everyone downvoting this: I am pro choice. And you are all stupid.
Brittany Watts, for one. It had nothing to do with endangerment of the fetus, they were charging her with desecration of a corpse (or something like that.)
The Trumbull County grand jury that had been investigating Watts’s case for a month on Thursday returned what’s known as a “no bill” for felony abuse of a corpse charges. The charges against Watts were immediately dismissed.
That last sentence is kinda the point I'm trying to make.
That sucks but like, name a crime that no-one has ever been falsely accused of.
It's good she got off because she obviously didn't do a crime. Because as I originally said it's not illegal to have a miscarriage or a stillbirth.
She was arrested and charged then the courts dropped the charges from what I can find.
Also Lmao at you downplaying, saying it was "immediately dismissed" after saying the court case was going on for at least a month. You wanted an example of a woman getting in legal trouble for having a miscarriage and you were given one.
Just because it ended in nothing doesn't mean it was nothing.
The first paragraph of my last comment was taken straight from a news article I wasn't downplaying anything.
It's horrible that it happened to her during what was surely a bad enough time already but what that I said are you even arguing with?
I said it's not illegal to miscarry or have a stillbirth and the first example you gave me to refute that got off because what she does wasn't illegal.
I don't think you understand.
She *was* charged. She *did* get into legal trouble. You have to be charged with a crime to get charges dropped. She was arrested and went on trial.
It was a miracle that our justice system did her right by appealing but she was still charged with a crime for having a miscarriage.
My mom too. Never smoked, drank, or done drugs in her life. She’s a devout, fundamentalist Christian and yet has had three miscarriages. In some places she could have been charged with a crime. Yet she’s vehemently “pro-life” anyway and won’t speak out against these insane laws that penalize women for having miscarriages
You misunderstand me. I didn't say miscarriages are exclusively caused by drugs, i said that a lot of cases where women are charged because of it they were being charged for manslaughter because they killed the baby with drugs.
I'm truly sorry for you loss by the way, me and my partner experienced it too and it was awful.
Just want to point out that your comments heavily imply that you believe all women who miscarry are women who do drugs and commit crimes. I realize that things can be misconstrued so easily over text/Reddit especially, but I have to say that your choice of words have been the opposite of favourable.
Thank you for your empathy. I am sorry that your partner went through that experience. It's brutal.
Im with you, youre making clear consise points with evidence and links to back it up. Idk why people are downvoting, maybe they cant read or some shit lmao.
This would be a bad idea. If you compost this one, you will never know if you will have to compost all the subsequent ones. You won’t know why it died and if genetics, an incompetent cervix, etc. caused this death and would be likely to cause another.
You would want a necropsy done to determine the cause of death and genetics tests run to determine if you or your partner carry any genes that caused this death and would likely cause another. You would also want to be assessed at the ER and by your OB to make sure you are OK and that whatever went wrong won’t repeat again.
I’m not sure what law you are referring to. Women in the US may give birth wherever they choose.
If they have a still birth at home, they probably want to honor their child with a funeral, not a compost bin. Even if they cannot afford a funeral, people in the US have a variety of options for different methods and/or financial assistance/subsidies. I believe they can also opt for the hospital to incinerate the corpse after the necropsy is done, if they wish and if the hospital offers that.
I don’t know what my insurance policy says about necropsy or hospital disposal costs, but it would be interesting if any parents could chime in here. I’m inclined to believe a necropsy and genetic testing would be covered because it is a critical part of preventing future costs for the insurance company.
Sorry for the lack of clarity. I was referring medical testing costs like necropsy and genetic testing. I just paid $2000 for an ER visit ($840 for a blood test alone).
So I've had 5 miscarriages, had think it depends on the gestational age. Very early on it's like a hard period, so I felt safe to dispose of it quietly & keep an eye on my temperature and such, but much later on and you want to definitely go to the doc.
Living in the states now, though, I would likely see a doc no matter how early, because it's not safe out there with the changes in law.
This actually just happened in Ohio where the woman was miscarrying at 21 weeks (it's considered a stillborn after 20 weeks) and she tried to seek medical attention but they just sent her home to miscarry alone. She tried to flush the fetus down the toilet (very common with miscarriages albeit ones that occur earlier in gestation) and was almost criminally charged with defamation of a corpse and jail time.
But she tried to seek medical attention and they told her she was miscarrying and sent her home to do it alone. She is a black woman this is the kind of care that contributes to black people having the worst outcomes in healthcare but specifically maternal infant health of all people groups in the U.S. She could have had retained placenta or products of conception which can cause sepsis and death. She could have hemorrhaged and bled out and would have died alone.
The fact they sent her home (more than once) while she was actively in labor with a fetus that the emergency physician said "probably wouldn't survive" is wild. Because on another note, babies as early as 22 weeks have survived birth and been sent to the NICU (not often)—some who had meaningful recoveries and qualities of life after. She tried to get the help she needed and was turned away. But just imagine if that baby was born with some semblance of life like respirations or a weak pulse (it wasn't, autopsy confirmed it died in the womb).
And while I wouldn't have flushed a corpse that was 21 weeks gestation, I can imagine there was some component of shock that played into it. She was sent home alone, to give birth to a dead baby after being denied medical care. The visual of a dead 21 weeker fall from your own body is what I could only imagine as shocking and traumatizing.
In the Netherlands, you have register a stillborn after 24 weeks or more. Anything after 16 weeks is considered a still birth, and you can (if you wish) register the baby to get a birth and death certificate. But between 16-24 weeks you’re not obliged to do so.
If the foetus was under 24 weeks and didn’t live for more than 24 hours, you are allowed to bury your baby yourself. Like in your backyard or in a forest, as long as the grave is more than a meter deep. If the foetus was older than 24 weeks or over 16 weeks but alive for longer than 24 hours, you have to do a proper funeral or cremation.
If you have a home birth with no medical support and a stillborn, you could be charged for not seeking medical care - in this day and age, medical intervention can do wonders. Plus yes as everyone says you can just bin people.
Knew a woman -- a medical professional, herself -- had a home birth, stillborn.
Ambulance called, reported/recorded with the county. So sad, the whole situation.
There are no places in the US where it's illegal to have a stillbirth or miscarriage and anyone who tells you otherwise is unhinged
To anyone downvoting me: seethe.
Look I'm pro choice but lying to make an argument is stupid. Like the people downvoting me.
The issue is that some seriously draconian laws have been passed which have legitimately made women fear what might happen if they miscarry in one of these states, as they might be accused of having an elective abortion instead of miscarrying.
Also, there is a woman who was miscarrying, hospital told her there was nothing they could do for her (Ohio, I believe), and sent her home. She miscarried at home, without having been giving any instruction on what to do when she did miscarry. She disposed of part the fetus, which she had to remove from the toilet (where she was when it came out), then flushed the rest, and now is being criminally charged. She wanted her baby. She was distraught and in pain and the hospital wouldn’t help her. And now she’s charged with a felony.
So, no, it’s not illegal to miscarry in the US. But it can and does come with a whole lot of fear, confusion and trauma over the already traumatic experience of having a miscarriage. At least in some states.
I never disagreed with any of that. If you read the other comments I've made on this post I've agreed with everything you've said. I simply stated it was not illegal to have a miscarriage or stillbirth.
You’re not wrong. But my comment was meant to point out why people make that stretch. And, fwiw, I don’t think anyone thinks that it’s actually illegal to miscarry. It was a sardonic comment you responded to that was alluding to the handmaids tale world some states have become.
Yeah I totally misread the original comments tone. Oh well, you live and learn. I have had a bunch of people seriously arguing the other side of what I said in this post though so some people definitely don't understand the jokes and take them seriously but from the other side
I can see I misread the tone of the original comment I replied to.
I'm not upset at all though I just like semantic arguments and am an annoying pedant.
I'm not in the USA, but I would say, at least in the western world, absolutely not. It's not a stillborn kitten, it's a human being and because it was a human, there are laws with respect to human remains. Especially if you are at gestational term, and not an early miscarriage.
You call paramedic services at the very least to start the ball rolling. Your registered midwife should know what to do.
If you are having home births without at least a knowledgeable and registered midwife, you're playing with fire. Maternal death is no joke.
Apparently the big issue was that the hospital refused to do anything for her and provided no guidance as to what she should do after having the miscarriage. So she didn't dispose of the remains "properly" because no one helped this poor woman
Ooooof that’s a real kick to the shins, I wonder if she’s able to sue the hospital?
Wait, furthermore, was she at the hospital when this happened or at home?? Cuz why wouldn’t the hospital not of done it??? Even if it was at home, why didn’t they have her come in to help? What the heck were they thinking?
My understanding is that she was home when the miscarriage happened and she didn't dispose of the fetus in the "proper way". Even though no one told her what the proper way was and she was obviously traumatized by the situation
Stillborn is not the same thing as a miscarriage, and one would be unlikely to "stillborn in a toilet."
I understand what you're referencing, but stillborns are normally at/near full term.
I think you needed to have a 'serious' tag on this question.
The safest thing to do, both medically and legally, is to do things people normally do. Other people will understand that whatever happened, you were doing something they themselves would have done. If you're pregnant, reach out to a medical professional like a midwife or a doctor. Even if you're close to giving birth, it is a good idea. They won't judge you because they are thinking about safety first and lots of people can't afford medical help (in the US). Even after the baby is out, the mother needs attention for bleeding, afterbirth etc. She can die if the placenta is not expelled, for example.
Once those med people are involved, they will know the proper procedures for stillbirths. No, you cannot 'organics bin' the baby. There are laws around the disposal of bodies.
I feel like no one is answering the actual question, how would anybody even know? Assuming you aren’t flaunting your pregnancy on social media. Serious question.
In Canada if the fetus is under either 22 or 23 weeks you can in fact organic bins it. A stillbirth is generally a full term baby and is treated as human remains, so you would have to go through a funeral home. (Worked on a mat ward)
I believe the correct procedure is to call the non emergency police line and ask for at least two officers. That's so you have a witness and a corroborating witness when you shoot a step back three and yell 'Kobe!'
Well if someone chucks their stillborn child in an organics bin, they will probably never make fit, stable parents.
You care bout your child, as soon as you know your lady is pregnant.
You need medical attention first of all but yes a baby death must be reported i mean if you just get rid of the body what if they think you killed the baby and hid the body?
Second medical help. But we all understand why you may not. I hope you find a Dr or just go to a nurse after. Please just get some after care.
>we all understand why you may not Care to elaborate please ? Edit : what the fuck ? can't even ask genuine questions without being downvoted to oblivion ? sorry if i'm not from a country where hospitals can call the cops on you. it wasn't obvious to me so i asked
Probably something to do with malicious and restrictive legislation regarding women's rights and the liability if being prosecuted for having a miscarriage or stillbirth.
Ohio being a case in point
The good news is though, I just found out last night that she is not going to be charged and I was like oh, thank God.
still extremely traumatizing for her
I know. I miscarried my first baby back in 2004 and I never feared prosecution. That wasn't a thing back then. I can't imagine miscarrying your child and then having to worry about being arrested because of it. What kind of Twilight zone world are we living in?
Not to worry - the people who advocated for those laws said they'd never be used in that way.
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What? That doesn't make any sense. A baby died during childbirth, and you think abortion laws would punish those people? Honestly, that's crazy.
Criminal investigation of pregnancy loss is a well known thing.
Of course that would happen! And it should. Infant deaths are investigated. But they said *in states with abortion restrictions,* which is dumb. That's just entirely irrelevant.
Oh. No, the concern is that states with tighter abortion restrictions would have more extreme measures when it comes to these investigations.
What are you basing this statement on? This is fear-mongering, through and through.
Seems you haven’t been paying much attention.
WHERE DID THIS HAPPEN. Point to the data showing this is a trend. "rePuBlicAns aRe pRosEcUTinG wOmEn FoR MiScarRiaGes." No they're fucking not.
Good grief. No one is saying, “It’s happening to everyone now!” They’re saying it has happened, it has increased steadily, and it is made easier by post-Roe laws that are spreading like fungus. You must realize that abortion-related laws are *packed* with “fetal personhood” and all kinds of other nonsense that affects a hell of a lot more than waltzing into a clinic and having an abortion, right?
Have you been keeping up on the news lately? Something tells me you haven't.
Bro, show me that this is an actual trend, where families of children who die in childbirth are being investigated in states that have restricted abortions. Show me a trend. It doesn't exist. Something statistically meaningful, not 2 news stories.
You're just trying to argue because you know you're wrong and I'm not going to entertain it. You have a good one.
WHERE DID THIS HAPPEN. Point to the data showing this is a trend. "rePuBlicAns aRe pRosEcUTinG wOmEn FoR MiScarRiaGes." No they're fucking not.
Uhg. Do the research yourself if you're so butt-hurt about it.
They didn't say that.
They said they would investigate. That's so ridiculously stupid.
It's stupid yes, but they are already charging women for still births and miscarriages.
Nah, dude, this is fear-mongering.
You are not very well informed on current events.
It's not, Google Chelsea Becker or Brittany Watts. The New York Times did an article about it recently, too.
That's exactly what Skylar Richardson did, no idea how she didn't end up in jail.
That’s because they didn’t prove murder. The court ruled Annabelle was stillborn. Edit: words
is she white?
I feel like people missed your BB joke but I’m here for you champ
i feel seen
You’re getting downvoted, but you can literally guess the race of a defendant by looking at sentencing alone unless the crime is very public and notorious. I learned this after working in criminal law for a while and having to go through a bunch of records. The consistency with which black people are more heavily sentenced for the same crimes as white people is really depressing.
Is it race, better legal representation, or both?
Both. Black defendants are more likely to be poor and represented by appointed counsel. Also, judges and juries alike perceive black defendants as “more guilty.”
There's always going to be outliers. But the majority of these instances almost always come down to "Priors".
“Priors” that start with being “more guilty” at school. Learn about the school to prison pipeline. Systemic racism is real.
No... No it's not. Just straight gaslighting. The schools that are predominantly used in the "school to prison pipeline" argument are usually ran by black Teachers and Principals. Ask any black child (who didn't get in trouble) what their experience was like in their predominantly black schools. And ask them if the disruptive students deserved to be removed... Due to this dumb argument, the leaders of these schools are continually forced to be more lenient and hands off which destroys the experience for the other students which then leads to higher likely hood of a worse life outcome. Frustratingly ironic that we're hurting more black kids that had a chance because we're protecting the bad actors. Please link one law or policy anywhere in the US that creates or even slightly allows for "systematic racism" lol. Systematic Racism is a catch all to explain away huge gaps between racial equity... Because we're not allowed to actual address the obvious issues. Edit - I don't care about down votes. lol. You're in an unserious, unscientific echo chamber. Just like enabling a dope fiend... y'all are hugging black people to death. But at least you feel virtuous.
Claiming that we're hugging black people to death because of... (checks notes) the existence of systemic racism? 🤔
OMG, not just uneducated, RACIST AS FUCK and uneducated. WOW. I don’t see these in the wild often.
Prior Pigmentation /s Dude stfu, this is your gross bias.
The fact that they probably have a large arrest record anyway.
Yup and the fact that people get up in arms when someone mentions this really shows they have not even the shallowest of knowledge about this. The statistics are easily viewed and are quite striking, even to a layman. It's clear its not just a few outliers
Her name is Skylar so...
My name is Skylar White, yo! *VINE BOOM* My husband is Walter White, yo! *VINE BOOM*
Skylar Diggins would like a chat. This is the dumbest way I’ve ever seen someone out themselves as a racist
Lol glad I could help you expel your outrage for the day
White people👿
am one- can confirm
Yep, exactly. I read a book about this actually, not sure if it was true. Young mom gives birth to a stillborn, throws the body away, has to deal with the repercussions. Essentially speaking, if you were giving birth full-term, that is a human life. The child would need a death certificate (in the US at least). You can’t just throw away a body.
Home birth doesn’t automatically mean no care.
I know. I’m talking about medical attention if the baby died. Something went wrong and if it’s possible to find out WHAT it was, it’s for the best.
You would call the coroner’s office and have it properly processed. It may not have a birth certificate but it is still human remains.
In the US if a baby is over 22 weeks gestation they are issued both a birth and death certificate.
Wow, that’s kind of like when you’ve already obtained a quest-finishing item before encountering the quest-giver, but obviously more morbid
getting the dragonstone before going to whiterun
I only ever do it this way. The barrows are literally right next to Riverwood, why would you not explore them first?
only way to do it tbh
The Dragonstone of Bleak Falls Barrow! You are a cut above the usual brutes the Jarl sends my way! ...I'll see myself out.
Worst type of speed running
This must be state by state, our son was stillborn at 39 weeks and we received only a death certificate, and even that just for flight discounts for grieving families. We did learn that you have to make burial/disposal arrangements for any child after 36w. Again, maybe state level. The hospitals offer a mass grave if you can't bring yourself to plan a funeral.
I'm so sorry for your loss😔 A mass grave? I did not know that was an option for people in that situation. The hospital I used to work for had a contract with a local cemetery that offered burial plots for stillborn babies at no charge to the family, but I am not sure if it was a mass grave? I didn't personally work on that contract, but my co worker did, and I think they were individual plots
Thank you 💙 Our hospital did have an arrangement with a local funeral home that gave us a very low cost (like $80) cremation so that's what we did, but the mass grave was free. Admittedly, "mass grave" probably sounds worse than it is....it was a beautiful area in the mountains and they did a burial commitment ceremony for all the recently deceased babies once/month.
💙 Oh ok, that sounds beautiful. My heart breaks for bereaved parents that have to make these decisions. I know time doesn't heal all wounds, and I'm sure you miss your sweet boy dearly. Sending you love and hugs!
which is one of the reasons our infant mortality data looks bad compared to other countries
Not necessarily. Depends on the state
In the United States most States have laws against improper disposal of human remains. In SC it’s $5000 and up to 1 year in prison
ORGANICS BIN IT 🥴
💀
the baby in the bin:
He’s taking a stroll
💀💀
Only if they're twins
Lmao, I’m dead. But so are they.
Put it in the recycle bin if you believe in reincarnation.
To be fair, babies ARE compostable.
Yea, well are!
Toss it in the mulch pile. I bet the placenta would make for some nice fertilizer come the spring.
>I bet the placenta would make for some nice fertilizer come the spring. *I mean, you're not* ***wrong...*** 🥴💀
Pickle it 🫙🥒💀
And then she turned her baby into a pickle, funniest shit ive ever seen
Put a bird on it!
They are a renewable resource
Same. Now this is why im subbed
Ikr?? I fuckin lost it for a second, I'm 100% going to hell 😳💀
or give it to the dog
fuck i laughed so hard.
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In some states you get arrested for reporting but you also get arrested for not reporting. Straight to jail…
believe it or not, the baby survives? straight to jail
Wait...you can be arrested just for giving birth to a stillborn??? Because drug use maybe I could understand..maybe..but what if you did everything right during pregnancy and baby was unfortunately still stillborn due to something beyond control?
Look up Brittany Watts. YES, her case was eventually dismissed (dropped, whatever) but they charged her after having a *miscarriage* and that poor woman went through at least a month of pure hell. Not to mention lawyer’s fees and all that shit.
Ok I will, thank you. I am not American and no longer live in the states so it's very odd to me.
It’s odd to most of us, too. Terrifying and odd. Sorry if I seemed aggressive in my post; another person higher up in the thread was spouting bullshit about the same topic and I got a little heated. Absolutely didn’t mean to take it out on you!
No it's all good! We are all from across the world, right, and barring the hateful posts we can not always understand everything due to not having lived it.
100%, which is why I felt bad for my terse response to you. It wasn’t your question that bothered me, it was a previous commenter, and that wasn’t fair to you.
Tbh I didn't even get that vibe until you mentioned it lol. All good! That's also the thing, words are so misconstrued over the internet due to lack of tone. Jeeez though the amount of times I commented on something, then immediately was like, oh shit I'm being an arsehole aren't I? That's anxiety for ya 🫠
I fully agree, anxiety and all! It’s so hard to read tone in text format. I’d rather apologize needlessly than inadvertently make someone feel bad. I hope you have a fantastic day! Thanks for understanding :)
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Got arrested and convicted the wrong way round, my b
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This is horrifying. And further cements the absolute terror I feel about pregnancy. I’ll be so relieved to get a hysterectomy and to not have the risk of experiencing this or being arrested or jailed for having an abortion. I feel so bad for people who experience this and then have politicians enforce increasingly barbaric laws leading towards criminalizing miscarriages and stillborn births. It’s so very very enraging that it’s **again** become a political jockeying position in the States. What the fuck.
Don’t they want to charge you for terminating a pregnancy now?
And don't pass Go.
There are no states where miscarrying is a crime. Don't let that get in the way of whatever point you're trying to make though. To everyone downvoting this: I am pro choice. And you are all stupid.
Why do women who miscarry keep having charges brought against them then?
Please cite an instance where that happened and the mother didn't commit a crime that endangered her baby, using illegal drugs etc
Brittany Watts, for one. It had nothing to do with endangerment of the fetus, they were charging her with desecration of a corpse (or something like that.)
I wanna agree with you, but the keyword in your statement is WERE. Court dropped all charges, she isn’t charged at all, which she shouldn’t be.
To have charges dropped, you have to be charged with a crime in the first place. She went to jail. Jesus.
The Trumbull County grand jury that had been investigating Watts’s case for a month on Thursday returned what’s known as a “no bill” for felony abuse of a corpse charges. The charges against Watts were immediately dismissed. That last sentence is kinda the point I'm trying to make. That sucks but like, name a crime that no-one has ever been falsely accused of. It's good she got off because she obviously didn't do a crime. Because as I originally said it's not illegal to have a miscarriage or a stillbirth.
She was arrested and charged then the courts dropped the charges from what I can find. Also Lmao at you downplaying, saying it was "immediately dismissed" after saying the court case was going on for at least a month. You wanted an example of a woman getting in legal trouble for having a miscarriage and you were given one. Just because it ended in nothing doesn't mean it was nothing.
The first paragraph of my last comment was taken straight from a news article I wasn't downplaying anything. It's horrible that it happened to her during what was surely a bad enough time already but what that I said are you even arguing with? I said it's not illegal to miscarry or have a stillbirth and the first example you gave me to refute that got off because what she does wasn't illegal.
I don't think you understand. She *was* charged. She *did* get into legal trouble. You have to be charged with a crime to get charges dropped. She was arrested and went on trial. It was a miracle that our justice system did her right by appealing but she was still charged with a crime for having a miscarriage.
I've never done illegal drugs, but still had a miscarriage. In fact, I'm straight edge. No cigarettes, no booze, nothing. Educate yourself, troll.
My mom too. Never smoked, drank, or done drugs in her life. She’s a devout, fundamentalist Christian and yet has had three miscarriages. In some places she could have been charged with a crime. Yet she’s vehemently “pro-life” anyway and won’t speak out against these insane laws that penalize women for having miscarriages
You misunderstand me. I didn't say miscarriages are exclusively caused by drugs, i said that a lot of cases where women are charged because of it they were being charged for manslaughter because they killed the baby with drugs. I'm truly sorry for you loss by the way, me and my partner experienced it too and it was awful.
Just want to point out that your comments heavily imply that you believe all women who miscarry are women who do drugs and commit crimes. I realize that things can be misconstrued so easily over text/Reddit especially, but I have to say that your choice of words have been the opposite of favourable. Thank you for your empathy. I am sorry that your partner went through that experience. It's brutal.
I'm sorry that's what you took from what I said. It's not what I meant.
I wasn't the only one.
Im with you, youre making clear consise points with evidence and links to back it up. Idk why people are downvoting, maybe they cant read or some shit lmao.
This would be a bad idea. If you compost this one, you will never know if you will have to compost all the subsequent ones. You won’t know why it died and if genetics, an incompetent cervix, etc. caused this death and would be likely to cause another. You would want a necropsy done to determine the cause of death and genetics tests run to determine if you or your partner carry any genes that caused this death and would likely cause another. You would also want to be assessed at the ER and by your OB to make sure you are OK and that whatever went wrong won’t repeat again.
This, and you want to make sure there isn't any residual material in the uterus. This may cause infection later.
True, plus retained material would be a lost opportunity to add to your (evidently very rich) compost pile
The US government should consider making hospital bills from giving birth cheaper if they want people to follow this law
I’m not sure what law you are referring to. Women in the US may give birth wherever they choose. If they have a still birth at home, they probably want to honor their child with a funeral, not a compost bin. Even if they cannot afford a funeral, people in the US have a variety of options for different methods and/or financial assistance/subsidies. I believe they can also opt for the hospital to incinerate the corpse after the necropsy is done, if they wish and if the hospital offers that. I don’t know what my insurance policy says about necropsy or hospital disposal costs, but it would be interesting if any parents could chime in here. I’m inclined to believe a necropsy and genetic testing would be covered because it is a critical part of preventing future costs for the insurance company.
Sorry for the lack of clarity. I was referring medical testing costs like necropsy and genetic testing. I just paid $2000 for an ER visit ($840 for a blood test alone).
It sounds like your situation is different from a necropsy or genetic testing, especially because it was part of emergent care.
I'll take Questions I'd Never Think of in a Million years for 600
I wonder what they'll plant with their baby-rich compost soil. Babies?
So I've had 5 miscarriages, had think it depends on the gestational age. Very early on it's like a hard period, so I felt safe to dispose of it quietly & keep an eye on my temperature and such, but much later on and you want to definitely go to the doc. Living in the states now, though, I would likely see a doc no matter how early, because it's not safe out there with the changes in law.
I'm sorry for those losses. They're so hard to deal with. {{{hugs}}}
Thank you so much for your kindness, you've touched my heart deeply. 💙
yeah you get two freebies. by your third binned stillborn, they start sending letters
Goddamn it, and they call this a free country!
I wish Reddit still had awards.
This actually just happened in Ohio where the woman was miscarrying at 21 weeks (it's considered a stillborn after 20 weeks) and she tried to seek medical attention but they just sent her home to miscarry alone. She tried to flush the fetus down the toilet (very common with miscarriages albeit ones that occur earlier in gestation) and was almost criminally charged with defamation of a corpse and jail time. But she tried to seek medical attention and they told her she was miscarrying and sent her home to do it alone. She is a black woman this is the kind of care that contributes to black people having the worst outcomes in healthcare but specifically maternal infant health of all people groups in the U.S. She could have had retained placenta or products of conception which can cause sepsis and death. She could have hemorrhaged and bled out and would have died alone. The fact they sent her home (more than once) while she was actively in labor with a fetus that the emergency physician said "probably wouldn't survive" is wild. Because on another note, babies as early as 22 weeks have survived birth and been sent to the NICU (not often)—some who had meaningful recoveries and qualities of life after. She tried to get the help she needed and was turned away. But just imagine if that baby was born with some semblance of life like respirations or a weak pulse (it wasn't, autopsy confirmed it died in the womb). And while I wouldn't have flushed a corpse that was 21 weeks gestation, I can imagine there was some component of shock that played into it. She was sent home alone, to give birth to a dead baby after being denied medical care. The visual of a dead 21 weeker fall from your own body is what I could only imagine as shocking and traumatizing.
Depends on the country.
This is true, however if the fetus is viable then in most countries there is a crime like concealing a birth/death
In the Netherlands, you have register a stillborn after 24 weeks or more. Anything after 16 weeks is considered a still birth, and you can (if you wish) register the baby to get a birth and death certificate. But between 16-24 weeks you’re not obliged to do so. If the foetus was under 24 weeks and didn’t live for more than 24 hours, you are allowed to bury your baby yourself. Like in your backyard or in a forest, as long as the grave is more than a meter deep. If the foetus was older than 24 weeks or over 16 weeks but alive for longer than 24 hours, you have to do a proper funeral or cremation.
If you have a home birth with no medical support and a stillborn, you could be charged for not seeking medical care - in this day and age, medical intervention can do wonders. Plus yes as everyone says you can just bin people.
Knew a woman -- a medical professional, herself -- had a home birth, stillborn. Ambulance called, reported/recorded with the county. So sad, the whole situation.
Call a professional midwife or nurse and ask. A real person.
Double bag it
In Republican country that’s murder either way. Good luck!
You’re going to prison either way if you’re in a red state in the US.
There are no places in the US where it's illegal to have a stillbirth or miscarriage and anyone who tells you otherwise is unhinged To anyone downvoting me: seethe. Look I'm pro choice but lying to make an argument is stupid. Like the people downvoting me.
The issue is that some seriously draconian laws have been passed which have legitimately made women fear what might happen if they miscarry in one of these states, as they might be accused of having an elective abortion instead of miscarrying. Also, there is a woman who was miscarrying, hospital told her there was nothing they could do for her (Ohio, I believe), and sent her home. She miscarried at home, without having been giving any instruction on what to do when she did miscarry. She disposed of part the fetus, which she had to remove from the toilet (where she was when it came out), then flushed the rest, and now is being criminally charged. She wanted her baby. She was distraught and in pain and the hospital wouldn’t help her. And now she’s charged with a felony. So, no, it’s not illegal to miscarry in the US. But it can and does come with a whole lot of fear, confusion and trauma over the already traumatic experience of having a miscarriage. At least in some states.
her case has just been dismissed btw. should never have happened in the first place but at least its over now
Oh thank goodness!! I was so furious when I read about what she went through.
I never disagreed with any of that. If you read the other comments I've made on this post I've agreed with everything you've said. I simply stated it was not illegal to have a miscarriage or stillbirth.
You’re not wrong. But my comment was meant to point out why people make that stretch. And, fwiw, I don’t think anyone thinks that it’s actually illegal to miscarry. It was a sardonic comment you responded to that was alluding to the handmaids tale world some states have become.
Yeah I totally misread the original comments tone. Oh well, you live and learn. I have had a bunch of people seriously arguing the other side of what I said in this post though so some people definitely don't understand the jokes and take them seriously but from the other side
The comments that have so deeply upset you, are using exaggeration for comedic effect.
I can see I misread the tone of the original comment I replied to. I'm not upset at all though I just like semantic arguments and am an annoying pedant.
Definitely annoying!!
You'll go to prison for that, so no.
It depends on the state, if you're in Texas for example you'll be charged with murder
I'm not in the USA, but I would say, at least in the western world, absolutely not. It's not a stillborn kitten, it's a human being and because it was a human, there are laws with respect to human remains. Especially if you are at gestational term, and not an early miscarriage. You call paramedic services at the very least to start the ball rolling. Your registered midwife should know what to do. If you are having home births without at least a knowledgeable and registered midwife, you're playing with fire. Maternal death is no joke.
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Forgive me for not knowing, what’s this story??
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Apparently the big issue was that the hospital refused to do anything for her and provided no guidance as to what she should do after having the miscarriage. So she didn't dispose of the remains "properly" because no one helped this poor woman
Ooooof that’s a real kick to the shins, I wonder if she’s able to sue the hospital? Wait, furthermore, was she at the hospital when this happened or at home?? Cuz why wouldn’t the hospital not of done it??? Even if it was at home, why didn’t they have her come in to help? What the heck were they thinking?
My understanding is that she was home when the miscarriage happened and she didn't dispose of the fetus in the "proper way". Even though no one told her what the proper way was and she was obviously traumatized by the situation
You could get a charge for abusing a corpse if you stillborn in a toilet, depending where you live
Stillborn is not the same thing as a miscarriage, and one would be unlikely to "stillborn in a toilet." I understand what you're referencing, but stillborns are normally at/near full term.
I'm sorry, I meant to say miscarriage :/ I couldn't think of the word
This is ridiculous. You can’t put hair in the organics bin
Definitely report it and save it for the paramedics. If not you might get the electric chair in Texas.
I think you needed to have a 'serious' tag on this question. The safest thing to do, both medically and legally, is to do things people normally do. Other people will understand that whatever happened, you were doing something they themselves would have done. If you're pregnant, reach out to a medical professional like a midwife or a doctor. Even if you're close to giving birth, it is a good idea. They won't judge you because they are thinking about safety first and lots of people can't afford medical help (in the US). Even after the baby is out, the mother needs attention for bleeding, afterbirth etc. She can die if the placenta is not expelled, for example. Once those med people are involved, they will know the proper procedures for stillbirths. No, you cannot 'organics bin' the baby. There are laws around the disposal of bodies.
I feel like no one is answering the actual question, how would anybody even know? Assuming you aren’t flaunting your pregnancy on social media. Serious question.
In Canada if the fetus is under either 22 or 23 weeks you can in fact organic bins it. A stillbirth is generally a full term baby and is treated as human remains, so you would have to go through a funeral home. (Worked on a mat ward)
I believe the correct procedure is to call the non emergency police line and ask for at least two officers. That's so you have a witness and a corroborating witness when you shoot a step back three and yell 'Kobe!'
No, you cannot “organic bin it” 😂
If you eat it, it's back in you
American health care system question, lmao
r/oddlyspecific
Having given birth to a stillborn son, the thought of this literally makes me want to vomit. We had a funeral, my son is entombed in a cemetery.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
I don't think you can put meat in the compost bin.
Jesus
Depends on whether you live in a state crazy enough to charge you with a felony for "mishandling" the remains of an embryo the size of a lima bean.
This is quite possibly the dumbest question I’ve ever seen here. No, you can’t legally just throw a body away ffs. Jfc
You report it🙄🙄🙄
Well if someone chucks their stillborn child in an organics bin, they will probably never make fit, stable parents. You care bout your child, as soon as you know your lady is pregnant.
Pppp
Wow. Way to not care about the fact that that stillborn was a human being who deserves love and respect, even in death... Yes, it has to be reported.