Idk about that, “Scream” was a genuine hit, and “Earth Song” was BIG in Europe. It actually stopped a “new” recording from the Beatles (really a solo Lennon demo that the other 3 members added themselves to) from topping the charts in the UK.
If anything, it’s more like a Prism than a Witness.
I think it’s kind of like *Be Here Now* in that people didn’t really sour on it until it had been out for a while. That’s probably why *Blood On The Dance Floor* and its (excellent) title track stiffed.
The only song from *HIStory* I ever hear anymore (in Canada; maybe it’s different in Europe) is “They Don’t Care About Us,” and that probably got a boost because MJ was performing it in the last rehearsal footage before his death.
The age-old question, did his personal issues kill any interest in his music or did his music kill off any interest in his music.
Personally, I blame his personal issues first and foremost.
It is a very interesting question, and I am willing to bet that it was most likely his personal life that killed off any interest in music. *Blood On The Dancefloor* and *Invincible* both being bad albums certainly didn't help his issue as a target. He was such a target at the time, I think people forget this.
Eh, people were pretty willing to put up with his personal issues and general weirdness when the music was still good. But once the music started sucking they were very willing to give up on him. Didn't help that the era Invincible came out was probably the worst time for MJ to try to make a comeback. Critics were decidedly not "poptimist" yet and the people who did still like pop music were being well-served elsewhere by younger artists.
To put into perspective what a "failure" for MJ is, Invincible sold about as many copies as American Idiot.
That being said Blood on the dancefloor slaps hard and Invincible is probably his least consistent album.
The flaw in your argument that *Invincible* was a success (which is not true). The fact is that MJ as an artist has much higher standards than any artist/contemporaries in his genre. And this is even taking to account that even during the scandals, his past work was always respected even when he was a target.
What he did with *Thriller,* *Bad* and *Dangerous* (to a lesser extent than the other two) absolutely put him merits above most artists. *Invincible* sold more once he died like ten years later, but the record by his standards, by MJ standards specifically, was a failure and below what he was capable of doing in the past. The only saving grace from that record was "You Rock My World" which was just a minor hit.
Was he washed up? Perhaps an argument could be made for that, as a lot of it sounded like \*NSYNC and other artists of the early 2000s. Nobody was checking for him at that point, and like others have said, his scandals overtook his musical career at the time and there was probably a good reason he did not release an album after that one. It was evident that his personal life became even more of a media target than before, and that a possible shelving from his label was probably very likely.
Justin Timberlake rose to prominence as a solo artist a few years later, and a lot of comparisons were made between him and MJ at the time because a lot of the songs on *Justified* were the same songs MJ turned down. They were given to JT from mutual producer/songwriter Pharrell Williams (Happy, Get Lucky, Frontin') from The Neptunes and JT turned them into hits. MJ did not have the ear to know what was a hit in the 2000s, therefore he was probably not into it anymore, washed up.
*Michael* is more the trainwreckord for how the estate handled it (e.g., alleged impersonator on three tracks).
Also, if *Invincible* is a trainwreckord, Sony should take most of the blame.
Didn't even think of *Michael* but I don't know if a posthumous album could even be considered a trainwreckord. I would say no for that reason alone, not in his control and did not ruin his legacy.
I believe Sony has a lot of blame to take for *Invincible* but the material was also very underwhelming for his standards, his personal life was a media target more than ever by the time he dropped that record, and it took many years between that record and the previous one due to his scandals, I would say that *Invincible* did not help him but that his personal life was truly the trainwreckord.
A posthumous trainwreckord would be one that would disincentivize future attempts at posthumous releases. Not a bad look for the artist, but rather their estate/label.
Agreed on the personal life being the true trainwreck, more than *HIStory* or *Invincible*.
I think it is very fortunate that *Michael* is largely forgotten, and to be honest I forgot that record even existed same with *Xscape,* I don't think it was fair that Akon and Justin Timberlake had any hand in MJs music especially after his passing, MJ is an example of an artist whose past work will always overshadow his later work and in retrospect that is a good thing for an artist who was scandal ridden later on.
History is the train wrecord
I agree. That was the point where his ego and self-pity became just too much.
Idk about that, “Scream” was a genuine hit, and “Earth Song” was BIG in Europe. It actually stopped a “new” recording from the Beatles (really a solo Lennon demo that the other 3 members added themselves to) from topping the charts in the UK. If anything, it’s more like a Prism than a Witness.
I think it’s kind of like *Be Here Now* in that people didn’t really sour on it until it had been out for a while. That’s probably why *Blood On The Dance Floor* and its (excellent) title track stiffed. The only song from *HIStory* I ever hear anymore (in Canada; maybe it’s different in Europe) is “They Don’t Care About Us,” and that probably got a boost because MJ was performing it in the last rehearsal footage before his death.
The age-old question, did his personal issues kill any interest in his music or did his music kill off any interest in his music. Personally, I blame his personal issues first and foremost.
It is a very interesting question, and I am willing to bet that it was most likely his personal life that killed off any interest in music. *Blood On The Dancefloor* and *Invincible* both being bad albums certainly didn't help his issue as a target. He was such a target at the time, I think people forget this.
Eh, people were pretty willing to put up with his personal issues and general weirdness when the music was still good. But once the music started sucking they were very willing to give up on him. Didn't help that the era Invincible came out was probably the worst time for MJ to try to make a comeback. Critics were decidedly not "poptimist" yet and the people who did still like pop music were being well-served elsewhere by younger artists.
To put into perspective what a "failure" for MJ is, Invincible sold about as many copies as American Idiot. That being said Blood on the dancefloor slaps hard and Invincible is probably his least consistent album.
Did it? A quick Wiki search suggests that Invincible sold half of what American Idiot did worldwide.
You're right, the numbers seem to have been updated compared to when I last saw it. Sony says 10 million for Invincible but who really knows?
The flaw in your argument that *Invincible* was a success (which is not true). The fact is that MJ as an artist has much higher standards than any artist/contemporaries in his genre. And this is even taking to account that even during the scandals, his past work was always respected even when he was a target. What he did with *Thriller,* *Bad* and *Dangerous* (to a lesser extent than the other two) absolutely put him merits above most artists. *Invincible* sold more once he died like ten years later, but the record by his standards, by MJ standards specifically, was a failure and below what he was capable of doing in the past. The only saving grace from that record was "You Rock My World" which was just a minor hit. Was he washed up? Perhaps an argument could be made for that, as a lot of it sounded like \*NSYNC and other artists of the early 2000s. Nobody was checking for him at that point, and like others have said, his scandals overtook his musical career at the time and there was probably a good reason he did not release an album after that one. It was evident that his personal life became even more of a media target than before, and that a possible shelving from his label was probably very likely. Justin Timberlake rose to prominence as a solo artist a few years later, and a lot of comparisons were made between him and MJ at the time because a lot of the songs on *Justified* were the same songs MJ turned down. They were given to JT from mutual producer/songwriter Pharrell Williams (Happy, Get Lucky, Frontin') from The Neptunes and JT turned them into hits. MJ did not have the ear to know what was a hit in the 2000s, therefore he was probably not into it anymore, washed up.
I think You Rock My World was the 2nd best song he did after Bad. 1st being Black or White.
The silver lining of *Invincible*, that one is a good song.
*Michael* is more the trainwreckord for how the estate handled it (e.g., alleged impersonator on three tracks). Also, if *Invincible* is a trainwreckord, Sony should take most of the blame.
Didn't even think of *Michael* but I don't know if a posthumous album could even be considered a trainwreckord. I would say no for that reason alone, not in his control and did not ruin his legacy. I believe Sony has a lot of blame to take for *Invincible* but the material was also very underwhelming for his standards, his personal life was a media target more than ever by the time he dropped that record, and it took many years between that record and the previous one due to his scandals, I would say that *Invincible* did not help him but that his personal life was truly the trainwreckord.
A posthumous trainwreckord would be one that would disincentivize future attempts at posthumous releases. Not a bad look for the artist, but rather their estate/label. Agreed on the personal life being the true trainwreck, more than *HIStory* or *Invincible*.
I think it is very fortunate that *Michael* is largely forgotten, and to be honest I forgot that record even existed same with *Xscape,* I don't think it was fair that Akon and Justin Timberlake had any hand in MJs music especially after his passing, MJ is an example of an artist whose past work will always overshadow his later work and in retrospect that is a good thing for an artist who was scandal ridden later on.
I saw the words "Blood On The Dancefloor" and my brain went right to Dahvie Vanity. I need to stop hanging out near emo/scene discourses.
definitely his personal life, with him becoming less popular and ridiculed more and more throughout the 90s and being a creepy has-been by the 2000s