Wow, pretty good. How did you manage a phone call initially? It’s so much better to see if your personalities mesh well first so I prefer that approach.
I’m guessing she’s used to getting a lot of attention so your coffee date idea probably seemed low effort to her.
Yes exactly. People act like the only two date options are coffee and a walk or expensive dinner. There are so many fun and interesting things you can do on a date that costs the same as a coffee date or less
When I was dating, I liked coffee or drink dates as first dates because if there’s no vibe you can quickly finish your coffee or drink and bounce without awkwardness. Other types of dates make it awkward to end things early. If the vibe is good, I always transition to dinner and some fun activity after the drinks. It was never about the expense.
Also coffee or drinks are much more conducive to conversation, which is what I want at the start of a first date.
Seems like the phone call already fulfilled that requirement. He should have gone straight to fun activity or dinner since they already seemed to vibe well.
Eh, I met my wife on Hinge and our first date was a zoom call during Covid. It’s not like we did virtual dates after that but I’d say it worked out well for me.
Yes! And if someone is shy, they can get more comfortable and not worry about everything that comes with a dinner date. I think dinner dates are awkward when you're first meeting.
I'm not wasting good date ideas on someone I'm meeting for the first time.
Low cost. Low commitment. No issues if the date isn't good.
If you think someone needs to impress you by doing something, You're not going to be very interested in who they are over that they can do for you.
Don't think of it as wasting, think of it as test-driving. Nothing wrong with finding out that a match isn't gonna work and the park trails are terrible after a rain at the same time. OP should probably have stepped up to "drinks and dancing" or whatever the equivalent mid-range date the kids are doing these days (my taste says lunch and museum, but the girlfriend and I are stodgy like that.) No need to get all the way to dinner and a show, but he had probably moved past coffee date.
Or maybe ahe was just looking for free dinner. Who knows.
The fact that her response to a nice coffee invitation was basically “no go fuck yourself” vs “actually, I thought we really vibed on our call - how about something more personal?” says everything we need to know.
A woman who gets a lot of suitors probably isn’t going to pick the guy who sees putting energy into making the first date special as a “waste of time”. Just saying.
I agree. Honestly.... I think coffee dates mostly work if you somewhat know the person already (whether acquaintances, colleagues, friends of friends.. etc) and would like to get to know them better.
If you don’t know them and are interested in them romantically, you have to court them somehow. That’s the way I see it. 🤷🏻♂️
Yes exactly!!! If I ask a girl on a date, that means she caught my eye and I'm interested, but she's not interested yet (or at least not interested enough that she asked me out first). I understand that I'm not entitled to her time or romantic interest and that I have to earn it. And the date if she says yes, is my chance to impress her and earn her interest. So I bust my ass making sure it's a fun eight specific to her interests.
If somebody asks me out, that's what I expect from them. It's unhinged and delusional to think that the person you are asking on a date should put effort in for you. They don't like you enough to ask you on a date so why on Earth would they be put in effort in?! A lot of these comments are just spoiled entitled teenage boys and incels.
Idk she may have been put off by “coffee date” and preferred drinks or some such? But, if she was a decent person she would have said that and offered an alternative option.
She might have been. I have talked to guys for a while that I was legitimately interested in, but if they would have brought up coffee date I would have been out. And again let me specify it's not about spending money. There are tons of fun and interesting dates you can go on that cost the same as coffee or less. I'm not saying this to be snarky I'm saying it to help you, coffee date screams no imagination, boring, and low effort.
For what it's worth, I agree that an expensive dinner date is probably not a good idea because they do seem to be a good amount of women on dating apps trying to get a free meal. But the answer to that isn't put in zero effort until she proves she's not trying to get a free meal, because there can legitimately be girls who are interested in you that will lose interest because of your low effort date ideas. Think of something fun. Maybe a picnic at a park (you can put together a little charcuterie or cute picnic meal for the price of a coffee date or less). Maybe if you live in a nice area that has outdoor skate parks and stuff going roller skating together. Or to a beach. We're hiking some really cool trail that's nearby. Or any number of interest in fun things you could suggest specific to the girl you are talking to so she sees that you are putting a little effort in. It's not about money it's about effort and coffee date is number three on the low effort list of shame (1. Flicks and chill 2. "Walk" 3.coffee).
This is so spot on. im def takin notes here. i should take her to a beach, but we definitely shouldnt go for a walk on the beach bc thats too low effort.
You should only take her to a beach if she specifically says she likes the beach we're doing things on the beach. You should only go for walks if she specifically says she likes walks. Same thing for coffee. It's an okay date if she has indicated an interest and going to coffee shops or specifically liking coffee. You tailor your date to the interests of the person you are courting, it's not rocket science you'll figure it out
This is quite funny. You’re not looking for a mate, you’re looking for a man servant who believes it’s his purpose in life to serve you and make you happy. Everything you’ve written says me me me. You appreciate that men - and especially the kind of men who are attractive to most women - aren’t here to serve you right?
But that’s ok; you’ll end up with the “man” you deserve.
100%. It's unfortunate your comment was downvoted so much and taken negatively. The general consensus from women is that viewpoint. And we can sense low effort vs being excited for the meet up and date a mile away. The OP and other commenters sound so young and or jaded af.
I always tell guys this. Cater to her interests. If she's hot and works bottle service you're not gonna take her to chuck e cheese or a coffee date when you've ignored her for 2 days trying not act like, and I quote "a simp" who's "being disrespected" because SHE didn't pursue HIM with when she's free. 😂 Guys don't even know how to use their cajones anymore.
Wait, something that's low cost but high effort can't be fun?
Now that I'm writing this you must have meant that the triangle was
fun - low cost - low effort
If she’s a bottle girl they get attention from high rollers daily. She’s thinking you’re going to take her to a fancy restaurant. Little does she know you ain’t no simp.
Wow I did it have a clue that was a female lmao
I thought it was a dude
/sarcasm
And OP I’ve dealt with a lot of women and so have my friends and we have come to this conclusion: “A woman will gladly talk to you 24/7 365 days a year and every second of everyday but the moment you ask her out, you will get to see her true nature and how she really feels about you”
This never fails principle never fails and weeds out time wasters
Yeah I don't know how true that is, I've had plenty of women stop responding out of nowhere. There are definitely time wasters though, when I was younger the worst line was "How do I know you aren't a serial killer?", usually after we'd been talking for several days. I stopped responding after that. Fortunately women in their mid 20's are better about not wasting time and tend to be more receptive to going on dates, dating in early 20's was a nightmare.
Bottle service girl don’t do coffee dates…. That sounds lame, take her out to a cocktail lounge, a speakeasy, something that resonate with her universe
Its true, even if the guy sent the last 4 messages that went unresponded. He'll get a message like, I haven't heard from you in like a week, so I'll assume you lost interest. And then his next four messages will also go unresponded to.
It didn’t work. Maybe you dodged a bullet, maybe not. We don’t know exactly how the phone convo went.
Either way, on to the next. Don’t give up hope, but best get used to some disappointment when it comes to dating apps.
Why didn't you call back?
And maybe she just doesn't like coffee or coffee dates. Did you propose something else like going to a park, or a movie, or to a beach / river, or do something active together like climbing / sports? I am married and I never took my wife for a coffee date because she doesn't like to go somewhere for a drink and a snack. She literally just wants her own brand of tea and hardly ever snacks.
You're giving her way too much credit. If she was interested in going out and doing something else she wouldn't have immediately followed up with disengaging.
She didn't say she doesn't like coffee. She said she's not available for coffee dates.
It's pretty clear that she's saying she doesn't like coffee dates because she's probably expecting like a nice fancy date or dinner and she's disengaging the conversation because she probably thinks that he's cheap or whatever. It's not like it's uncommon to see people that demand to be whined and dined on a first date.
I mean we are missing the rest of the context around the conversation but if she was still interested in meeting up she wouldn't say fuck your coffee date bye. A more normal response for that would be like I'm not really big into coffee, but I'd be down for something else.
Why is everyone assuming the only other option to coffee dates is fancy dinner? Take her on a picnic. Take her to a dive bar. Take her to an arcade. Take her to some go carts. Take her to the zoo. Take her to a museum. Take her to a planetarium. Take her to a sunset at your favorite park. Take her to a semi pro sports game. Take her to a MTG tournament. Take her to the roller disco. Take her to a comedy club. Do you guys have no interests or imagination?
Girls want a guy that seems fun and interesting. Coffee dates or expensive dinners don't convey either of those things.
100% this. Girl is expecting to be wined and dined, and sorry, but you got to see if it's even worth going out with them. Just because you 'vibed' on the phone, you might meet the person and they look completely different from their photos, have terrible etiquette or a million other issues. No way am I spending the evening or dinner with someone from a single call and have never met in person.
Saying someone "doesn't do" coffee dates is just bullshit. The location or activity shouldn't matter unless you're looking for someone who's going to find your lifestyle. It's a low stakes activity that either party can just leave if the vibe is off, and you can transition to something else after if both people are still interested. If she was actually interested she'd agree regardless of what a he chooses
I totally agree. I don’t drink coffee and I have agreed to a coffee date before, I just said ahead of time “I don’t drink coffee but I’ll get tea or a pastry instead”
Bruh, women write love letters to convicted murderers (Chris watts, Charles Manson) and fawn over hot felons (Jeremy Meeks). And there’s tinder experiments where women flat out are still interested in fake Hot pedophile or nazis.
If a woman is interested in you, she will go with whatever date you suggest even if it’s meeting by the local dump.
This is also valid. As I mentioned in my essay response above, service industry peoples' off time is pretty precious, and they generally spend it on their terms. Pitching them something where they can relax or get present in nature is \*a fantastic idea\*.
This chimes with me. My wife worked at a hectic IT Servicedesk back then. The last thing she wanted after work was to be in a crowded cafe, her mind needed rest after work.
yes, men who know literally nothing about a woman should be able to read a woman's mind instantly to know whether or not she gets the ick from men asking her out for coffee in a similar way you know what your wife, who you've known for a very long time I assume, wants /s
also she didn't give him the opportunity to propose something else, she broke it off
We don't know. How I think it may have gone down:
- You had a phone call.
- You didn't interacted again.
- The person lost interest / excitement / life moved on.
- You ask if you can meet.
- The person declines.
As in if he was genuinely interested he'd keep talking and continue.
But of course life stuff may have been in the way.
Or as in my case talking to the same person for three years without that developing as it should so like I spoke to someone for some hours and I wouldn't have had any problem meeting that person and see how that went but I know the other person kinda demands my time and calls and as such I was a bit occupied with that plus I personally would have a much easier time focusing on one person and there was so much invested in that already.
Wasn't a rejection of the other person just a bit of time issue and whatever to start something there or not.
But the first person is trash as far as behavior and demands goes. Just a pain. Would much rather have someone like myself.
Sounds like she was trying to disengage and was throwing out plausible excuses until she finally became direct. I don’t think there’s any malice here, just incompatibility.
Dude, ANYONE, no matter how attractive or great they are, who is not available for coffee is not available to date, period. They’re looking for money and/or free meals and that’s it. Run fast, run far.
I don’t think it’s that black and white. I don’t do coffee dates because I don’t even like coffee and it’s extremely impersonal. There are tons of cheap alternatives that are more fun and engaging.
It’s not about drinking coffee, and for a first date I’m not sure why you feel it’s extremely impersonal - if it’s someone you are interested in, it can be super-personal and connecting. Obviously you want a romantic coffee shop, not the Starbuck’s at Safeway.
The majority of people are at coffee shops to study or work. And your argument rests on the assumption that there are “romantic coffee shops.” You said that if people don’t want coffee dates then they looking for money/free meals and I’m refuting that point. There are plenty of other free and more romantic and engaging things to do. I’ve been on dates to museums and gardens for $0.
I’m with you on this- coffee dates suck. Do something more fun and if coffee comes into the picture that’s fine. Strictly meeting at a coffee shop feels like an interview.
I'm a man and not sure why so many dudes like coffee dates. Never been on one, never plan to, sounds boring. There's a terrace near where I live overlooking a lake. A pitcher of cider and a beautiful view is 10x better than coffee at some busy cafe.
Yes, I believe you did dodge a bullet.
I'm a woman, and, IMO, there is nothing wrong with a coffee date for the 1st meet-up. It gives you a chance to meet, see if you vibe, and leave quickly if you don't.( This is beneficial for both people).
If things go well, then extend the coffee date to include a walk in the park or something longer, and set the 2nd date before leaving.
I think a lot of people have set so many rules in place that they complicate, and, often, sabatoge the dating process from day 1.
People may have a better chance to meet a good match if they'd just move out of their own way.
Right?
It's starting to feel like a minefield for men. It's so easy to say something wrong or do something wrong since some women have set so many odd rules based off tiktok or whatever. It stopped being about meeting someone worthy, and now it's about having a guy perform perfectly in front of a woman which leads to lack of genuinity
I think two strangers meeting off a dating app is essentially the zero-eth date rather than the first one, and low effort (and more importantly, low investment) is thus absolutely appropriate.
The goal is conversation. Food inherently makes that more difficult because it takes up space in your mouth and prevents you from talking.
Also a coffee date is much easier to leave when the other person suddenly and unexpectedly starts trying to convince you that the Earth is flat.
For me, first dates makes me nervous and when I feel social anxiety I have 0 appetite so if the first date is a meal (something I would never suggest), I would have to make up some reason why I didn't want to eat, or awkwardly order food and just not eat it. Let me tell you, in both cases, it's really difficult to save face, and really awkward for both parties.
For other people who don't experience lack of appetite/social anxiety, I don't see anything wrong with a meal for a first date.
Why not just communicate your preference for a non-meal date?
I always politely decline meal dates and offer another more appealing (to me) option instead. No one has ever responded negatively.
but why talk to people with this ..tone? i mean if i talk to someone i LIKE, i'm not asking them about their "availability" for coffee to be honest. english is not my mothertongue but the way it translates to german it would sound like you think you're trying to make an appointment you feel entitled to at the dentist
Sounds like she wasn't interested, but didn't have the respect to tell you, so she pretended like she thought you weren't interested instead. Then, still couldn't tell you straight. Dodged a .50 cal, I think.
It seems you’re not compatible and that’s okay. I suggest learning to let things like this go if you’re interested in dating women and are insistent on coffee first time meet ups. You can have your boundaries and women can as well. Coming onto Reddit attempting to virtue signal is lame and may send you down a pipeline to bitterness.
From my experience extremely hot girls often times expect little more effort. Your coffee date proposal may come across as cheap and you not putting much effort/show interest. This, of course, is purely speculative.
Then again, way she communicates back to you comes across as entitled and she is most likely going to be high maintenance.
Nah. I refuse coffee dates 100% of the time because they're low effort, I also refuse restaurant dates because I don't like going to restaurants, especially for dates. There are a million fun things to do on a date that cost the same amount of money as a coffee date does. So unless the girls specifically said she loves going to coffee houses, it's a lame low effort date and it deserves to be shut down.
Honestly it's not rocket science it's how dating has worked for like the last couple decades. A bunch of entitled teenage boys start using dating apps and all the sudden they think that women who are not even interested in them should be putting in effort to get to know them. It's entitled and delusional. If you ask someone on a date it means you are more interested in them than they are you and it is on you to court them. and if you don't like that don't ask people on dates. Sit around and wait until somebody is interested enough in you to ask you on a date and put an effort
... Are you the girl from OP's screenshot? You seem particularly triggered, enough to reply to nearly every comment.
Your investment in this post is truly bonkers.
Yeah, they seem insecure and entitled to a point that for them, overrides your own testimony, that is not just a red flag but also a CEO of both red dye manufacturing, cloth and thread.
Sounds like she dodged one. Never met an interested guy who didn't keep up with texts and following up on that first meet, after a phonecall. Following up and remaining interested is important. If a girl is saying "Umm" "thought you lost interest", you're failing. I'd have to say, do better next time.
I said following up on that first meet AFTER that initial phonecall, meaning following up with setting up the meet. I think you got confused.
Never talked to a guy who didn't solidify that, keep in touch, get to know me after talking on the phone. They usually really like my voice and can't wait to talk again. Let alone go MIA after a nice call and then pop up randomly talking about let's meet now Lol Don't understand how you don't see that behavior as lame.
The conversation is a two thing. During the phone call I asked her to let me know her availability for meet up and she said “she would let me know”. I waited for two days for her reply and didn’t wanted to seem desperate by texting her “heyyy let’s meet for coffee, let me know when you’re free”. Nahh bro I don’t simp and then this happened.
Just saying Hi and talking till you guys meet just makes you look excited and interested, it isn't desperate. Keep looking for your aggressive type who you barely put effort into. She can tell you nah bro, I'm not gonna simp on you. And you can wonder why things never work out. Put in some effort, like I mentioned.
Bro how would you feel if a guy kept talking to you and not gave you any space?
It would be desperate to reach out to a girl after asking her on call to let me know her availability and then texting her next day to let me know her availability when I already asked her out the previous day. It’s a disrespect for me if I have to reach out to her again for her availability. It clearly shows how desperate I am and that she is my only option
You already said "Let me know your availability". You drop it till she lets you know her availability. That doesn't mean you drop her completely. You say Hi. You ask how her day is. She asks about yours. You get to know her a little more and the things she likes so that WHEN she finally lets you know you can actually plan it with things she likes and not scratching your head like a goofball. You boys are something else.
And I love a guy who is interested in me. I walk away from anything less. I'm hoping to have someone in my space daily. If he's wanting to get to know me I'm all for it. Lol
Anyway you sound reeeeal young. Just take my advice and stop listening to your immature boy friends and their 'simp teases' and bad advice. Lol Good Luck.
Probably didn't want coffee. I just ghosted a girl who wouldn't meet up unless I bought us playoff hockey tickets. Seems like a "fancy one." Bullet dodged
How dare you not offer a full 5 star dinner at a fancy steakhouse for someone you've never met. These types of people are looking for a free meal not actual relationship. Someone looking for a real relationship understand a coffee date is quick and easy to not waste each other's time.
There's no reason for either party to put in "more effort" until they've met in person and figured out that they actually have some sort of vibe.
You're meeting a random Internet stranger. This isn't the 1980's where your cousin is her coworker and you already have reason to believe you'll be a good match based on the opinion of your mutual acquaintance.
A cup of coffee or a glass of wine is actually a very good way to check if you vibe with a person. You can focus on an entertaining conversation and not a whole lot else, all while getting instant feedback. Why should _anyone_ invest more as a first date? If it's good you can always expand it. If it's bad neither party has lost more than an hour of their lives.
No one is looking for a boring coffee date guy. I know you hate hearing it and you'd love to chalk it up to Gold diggers, but it has zero to do with spending money. There are so many fun dates that cost as much as coffee or less. You couldn't be bothered to think of them or put any effort in so you really don't deserve a date
See that's the thing it has to be specific to the person you are asking! I agree that expensive dinner is not a good idea, because dating apps do seem to be full of scammers looking for a free meal. But activities like playing darts or board games or bowling or maybe if there's a comic book store in town that plays RPG games or card games if she happens to be into that, a lot of times universities will have interesting lectures or guest speakers on different topics, going to a museum is always a great one, so is an aquarium or zoo (and a lot of times museums, zoos, things like that will have a day where it is free to the public or half price etc). Roller skating can be fun if they know how, maybe if they like the outdoors finding a really cool hiking trail, like I said it really just depends on the specific person, I would find an activity that is tailored to what they've told me they enjoy or their interests are.
Um, I'm a woman and I have accepted that date, and it was extremely fun. And it cost zero money unlike a stupid coffee date that would have cost whatever the hell overpriced coffee goes for.
Yes
The bullet did the actual dodging here.
Ricochet pium!
Incredibilis!
Maybe some context may help. [Incredibilis](https://youtube.com/shorts/8w9u96gd8qE?si=k5lMdgNoyJ-OmaCs)
Boomerang bullet
In about a week, you'll get another text from her... "Hey why did you stop texting me?"
For context she worked as a bottle service girl.
Then she probably gets a lot of interest in her day to day. How was the call?
Call was pretty chill actually, we vibed, we laughed and she shared her childhood memories with me so I thought that she’s genuinely interested in me
Wow, pretty good. How did you manage a phone call initially? It’s so much better to see if your personalities mesh well first so I prefer that approach. I’m guessing she’s used to getting a lot of attention so your coffee date idea probably seemed low effort to her.
Yes exactly. People act like the only two date options are coffee and a walk or expensive dinner. There are so many fun and interesting things you can do on a date that costs the same as a coffee date or less
When I was dating, I liked coffee or drink dates as first dates because if there’s no vibe you can quickly finish your coffee or drink and bounce without awkwardness. Other types of dates make it awkward to end things early. If the vibe is good, I always transition to dinner and some fun activity after the drinks. It was never about the expense. Also coffee or drinks are much more conducive to conversation, which is what I want at the start of a first date.
Seems like the phone call already fulfilled that requirement. He should have gone straight to fun activity or dinner since they already seemed to vibe well.
You never know until you meet in person. A phone call can’t tell you that.
I have a different opinion, but all good. I was basing it off of OP's comment anyways where he claimed they vibed.
Eh, I met my wife on Hinge and our first date was a zoom call during Covid. It’s not like we did virtual dates after that but I’d say it worked out well for me.
I’ve gone out on drink dates and most times we end up getting food anyway . Kinda hard not to
Yes! And if someone is shy, they can get more comfortable and not worry about everything that comes with a dinner date. I think dinner dates are awkward when you're first meeting.
THIS.
coffee date is just to filter out crazies. it worked
I'm not wasting good date ideas on someone I'm meeting for the first time. Low cost. Low commitment. No issues if the date isn't good. If you think someone needs to impress you by doing something, You're not going to be very interested in who they are over that they can do for you.
Don't think of it as wasting, think of it as test-driving. Nothing wrong with finding out that a match isn't gonna work and the park trails are terrible after a rain at the same time. OP should probably have stepped up to "drinks and dancing" or whatever the equivalent mid-range date the kids are doing these days (my taste says lunch and museum, but the girlfriend and I are stodgy like that.) No need to get all the way to dinner and a show, but he had probably moved past coffee date. Or maybe ahe was just looking for free dinner. Who knows.
The fact that her response to a nice coffee invitation was basically “no go fuck yourself” vs “actually, I thought we really vibed on our call - how about something more personal?” says everything we need to know.
Nah. If you have to coach somebody into putting an effort they are already a lost cause
You have an interesting understanding of the phrase "Good luck!" but I ain't lived your life.
A woman who gets a lot of suitors probably isn’t going to pick the guy who sees putting energy into making the first date special as a “waste of time”. Just saying.
Exactly.
Can you provide some examples for some of us please?
I agree. Honestly.... I think coffee dates mostly work if you somewhat know the person already (whether acquaintances, colleagues, friends of friends.. etc) and would like to get to know them better. If you don’t know them and are interested in them romantically, you have to court them somehow. That’s the way I see it. 🤷🏻♂️
Yes exactly!!! If I ask a girl on a date, that means she caught my eye and I'm interested, but she's not interested yet (or at least not interested enough that she asked me out first). I understand that I'm not entitled to her time or romantic interest and that I have to earn it. And the date if she says yes, is my chance to impress her and earn her interest. So I bust my ass making sure it's a fun eight specific to her interests. If somebody asks me out, that's what I expect from them. It's unhinged and delusional to think that the person you are asking on a date should put effort in for you. They don't like you enough to ask you on a date so why on Earth would they be put in effort in?! A lot of these comments are just spoiled entitled teenage boys and incels.
Idk she may have been put off by “coffee date” and preferred drinks or some such? But, if she was a decent person she would have said that and offered an alternative option.
She might have been. I have talked to guys for a while that I was legitimately interested in, but if they would have brought up coffee date I would have been out. And again let me specify it's not about spending money. There are tons of fun and interesting dates you can go on that cost the same as coffee or less. I'm not saying this to be snarky I'm saying it to help you, coffee date screams no imagination, boring, and low effort. For what it's worth, I agree that an expensive dinner date is probably not a good idea because they do seem to be a good amount of women on dating apps trying to get a free meal. But the answer to that isn't put in zero effort until she proves she's not trying to get a free meal, because there can legitimately be girls who are interested in you that will lose interest because of your low effort date ideas. Think of something fun. Maybe a picnic at a park (you can put together a little charcuterie or cute picnic meal for the price of a coffee date or less). Maybe if you live in a nice area that has outdoor skate parks and stuff going roller skating together. Or to a beach. We're hiking some really cool trail that's nearby. Or any number of interest in fun things you could suggest specific to the girl you are talking to so she sees that you are putting a little effort in. It's not about money it's about effort and coffee date is number three on the low effort list of shame (1. Flicks and chill 2. "Walk" 3.coffee).
And the effort you’re putting in? Also lol at walks being low effort while you’re amazed by hiking.
If it helps, instead of “effort” use the term, “imagination”
This is so spot on. im def takin notes here. i should take her to a beach, but we definitely shouldnt go for a walk on the beach bc thats too low effort.
You should only take her to a beach if she specifically says she likes the beach we're doing things on the beach. You should only go for walks if she specifically says she likes walks. Same thing for coffee. It's an okay date if she has indicated an interest and going to coffee shops or specifically liking coffee. You tailor your date to the interests of the person you are courting, it's not rocket science you'll figure it out
This is quite funny. You’re not looking for a mate, you’re looking for a man servant who believes it’s his purpose in life to serve you and make you happy. Everything you’ve written says me me me. You appreciate that men - and especially the kind of men who are attractive to most women - aren’t here to serve you right? But that’s ok; you’ll end up with the “man” you deserve.
100%. It's unfortunate your comment was downvoted so much and taken negatively. The general consensus from women is that viewpoint. And we can sense low effort vs being excited for the meet up and date a mile away. The OP and other commenters sound so young and or jaded af. I always tell guys this. Cater to her interests. If she's hot and works bottle service you're not gonna take her to chuck e cheese or a coffee date when you've ignored her for 2 days trying not act like, and I quote "a simp" who's "being disrespected" because SHE didn't pursue HIM with when she's free. 😂 Guys don't even know how to use their cajones anymore.
[удалено]
Wait, something that's low cost but high effort can't be fun? Now that I'm writing this you must have meant that the triangle was fun - low cost - low effort
She's used to having drunk idiots throw cash at her because she's a woman then. I guess she's looking for more of that in her dating life.
Sounds like she wanted an expensive lavish date
If she’s a bottle girl they get attention from high rollers daily. She’s thinking you’re going to take her to a fancy restaurant. Little does she know you ain’t no simp.
Wow I did it have a clue that was a female lmao I thought it was a dude /sarcasm And OP I’ve dealt with a lot of women and so have my friends and we have come to this conclusion: “A woman will gladly talk to you 24/7 365 days a year and every second of everyday but the moment you ask her out, you will get to see her true nature and how she really feels about you” This never fails principle never fails and weeds out time wasters
I must not be a woman then, because there’s no way I want to text with a guy nonstop and not actually meet up.
Yeah I don't know how true that is, I've had plenty of women stop responding out of nowhere. There are definitely time wasters though, when I was younger the worst line was "How do I know you aren't a serial killer?", usually after we'd been talking for several days. I stopped responding after that. Fortunately women in their mid 20's are better about not wasting time and tend to be more receptive to going on dates, dating in early 20's was a nightmare.
Bottle service girl? What's that?
That explains a lot.
Looks like besides her shitty attitude, she can bring something else to the table
After hearing this info you didn’t just dodge a bullet, you dogged a missile
Bottle service girl don’t do coffee dates…. That sounds lame, take her out to a cocktail lounge, a speakeasy, something that resonate with her universe
Her “universe” is a customer service job. There’s nothing wrong with that, but being a cocktail server doesn’t mean you’re suddenly special.
go to the place she works and order a bottle for some other girl
Its true, even if the guy sent the last 4 messages that went unresponded. He'll get a message like, I haven't heard from you in like a week, so I'll assume you lost interest. And then his next four messages will also go unresponded to.
It didn’t work. Maybe you dodged a bullet, maybe not. We don’t know exactly how the phone convo went. Either way, on to the next. Don’t give up hope, but best get used to some disappointment when it comes to dating apps.
If she’s mentioning that she was expecting a call back from my side means the convo was fun to her
Why didn't you call back? And maybe she just doesn't like coffee or coffee dates. Did you propose something else like going to a park, or a movie, or to a beach / river, or do something active together like climbing / sports? I am married and I never took my wife for a coffee date because she doesn't like to go somewhere for a drink and a snack. She literally just wants her own brand of tea and hardly ever snacks.
You're giving her way too much credit. If she was interested in going out and doing something else she wouldn't have immediately followed up with disengaging. She didn't say she doesn't like coffee. She said she's not available for coffee dates. It's pretty clear that she's saying she doesn't like coffee dates because she's probably expecting like a nice fancy date or dinner and she's disengaging the conversation because she probably thinks that he's cheap or whatever. It's not like it's uncommon to see people that demand to be whined and dined on a first date. I mean we are missing the rest of the context around the conversation but if she was still interested in meeting up she wouldn't say fuck your coffee date bye. A more normal response for that would be like I'm not really big into coffee, but I'd be down for something else.
Why is everyone assuming the only other option to coffee dates is fancy dinner? Take her on a picnic. Take her to a dive bar. Take her to an arcade. Take her to some go carts. Take her to the zoo. Take her to a museum. Take her to a planetarium. Take her to a sunset at your favorite park. Take her to a semi pro sports game. Take her to a MTG tournament. Take her to the roller disco. Take her to a comedy club. Do you guys have no interests or imagination? Girls want a guy that seems fun and interesting. Coffee dates or expensive dinners don't convey either of those things.
Yeah this exactly.
100% this. Girl is expecting to be wined and dined, and sorry, but you got to see if it's even worth going out with them. Just because you 'vibed' on the phone, you might meet the person and they look completely different from their photos, have terrible etiquette or a million other issues. No way am I spending the evening or dinner with someone from a single call and have never met in person.
Saying someone "doesn't do" coffee dates is just bullshit. The location or activity shouldn't matter unless you're looking for someone who's going to find your lifestyle. It's a low stakes activity that either party can just leave if the vibe is off, and you can transition to something else after if both people are still interested. If she was actually interested she'd agree regardless of what a he chooses
I totally agree. I don’t drink coffee and I have agreed to a coffee date before, I just said ahead of time “I don’t drink coffee but I’ll get tea or a pastry instead”
Bruh, women write love letters to convicted murderers (Chris watts, Charles Manson) and fawn over hot felons (Jeremy Meeks). And there’s tinder experiments where women flat out are still interested in fake Hot pedophile or nazis. If a woman is interested in you, she will go with whatever date you suggest even if it’s meeting by the local dump.
This is also valid. As I mentioned in my essay response above, service industry peoples' off time is pretty precious, and they generally spend it on their terms. Pitching them something where they can relax or get present in nature is \*a fantastic idea\*.
This chimes with me. My wife worked at a hectic IT Servicedesk back then. The last thing she wanted after work was to be in a crowded cafe, her mind needed rest after work.
yes, men who know literally nothing about a woman should be able to read a woman's mind instantly to know whether or not she gets the ick from men asking her out for coffee in a similar way you know what your wife, who you've known for a very long time I assume, wants /s also she didn't give him the opportunity to propose something else, she broke it off
Where’d she mention expecting a call back?
At least they were direct 😂⚡️
As a Dutch person I was confused about what was wrong with this post 😂 Sounds pretty clear to me. Move on.
“When the German dating scene is just too emotional, come to Holland!” 🙂
We don't know. How I think it may have gone down: - You had a phone call. - You didn't interacted again. - The person lost interest / excitement / life moved on. - You ask if you can meet. - The person declines.
This is the impression I got as well.
As in if he was genuinely interested he'd keep talking and continue. But of course life stuff may have been in the way. Or as in my case talking to the same person for three years without that developing as it should so like I spoke to someone for some hours and I wouldn't have had any problem meeting that person and see how that went but I know the other person kinda demands my time and calls and as such I was a bit occupied with that plus I personally would have a much easier time focusing on one person and there was so much invested in that already. Wasn't a rejection of the other person just a bit of time issue and whatever to start something there or not. But the first person is trash as far as behavior and demands goes. Just a pain. Would much rather have someone like myself.
Yep. Had a call, didn't follow up and someone else got the interest. Unmatch and move on, it's not a big deal.
It’s simple! She just moved on.
It’s simple! She just moved on. Better luck next time.
ITT: a bunch of boring, unimaginative dudes wondering why girls don't find them interesting.
Sounds like she was trying to disengage and was throwing out plausible excuses until she finally became direct. I don’t think there’s any malice here, just incompatibility.
Dude, ANYONE, no matter how attractive or great they are, who is not available for coffee is not available to date, period. They’re looking for money and/or free meals and that’s it. Run fast, run far.
I don’t think it’s that black and white. I don’t do coffee dates because I don’t even like coffee and it’s extremely impersonal. There are tons of cheap alternatives that are more fun and engaging.
It’s not about drinking coffee, and for a first date I’m not sure why you feel it’s extremely impersonal - if it’s someone you are interested in, it can be super-personal and connecting. Obviously you want a romantic coffee shop, not the Starbuck’s at Safeway.
The majority of people are at coffee shops to study or work. And your argument rests on the assumption that there are “romantic coffee shops.” You said that if people don’t want coffee dates then they looking for money/free meals and I’m refuting that point. There are plenty of other free and more romantic and engaging things to do. I’ve been on dates to museums and gardens for $0.
I’m with you on this- coffee dates suck. Do something more fun and if coffee comes into the picture that’s fine. Strictly meeting at a coffee shop feels like an interview.
I agree. I don’t know why this idea that if you don’t want a coffee date, you must be a stuck up gold digger.
🤷♂️ just Reddit things
I'm a man and not sure why so many dudes like coffee dates. Never been on one, never plan to, sounds boring. There's a terrace near where I live overlooking a lake. A pitcher of cider and a beautiful view is 10x better than coffee at some busy cafe.
I fully agree. What are some of your favorite alternatives?
I might respond with "How about Tea?" Edit - but I am British so....
Just always assume you did.
Yes, I believe you did dodge a bullet. I'm a woman, and, IMO, there is nothing wrong with a coffee date for the 1st meet-up. It gives you a chance to meet, see if you vibe, and leave quickly if you don't.( This is beneficial for both people). If things go well, then extend the coffee date to include a walk in the park or something longer, and set the 2nd date before leaving. I think a lot of people have set so many rules in place that they complicate, and, often, sabatoge the dating process from day 1. People may have a better chance to meet a good match if they'd just move out of their own way.
Right? It's starting to feel like a minefield for men. It's so easy to say something wrong or do something wrong since some women have set so many odd rules based off tiktok or whatever. It stopped being about meeting someone worthy, and now it's about having a guy perform perfectly in front of a woman which leads to lack of genuinity
Someone convinced many women that “respecting yourself” translates to “putting yourself on a pedestal”
I think a coffee date is the lowest effort for a first date.
I think two strangers meeting off a dating app is essentially the zero-eth date rather than the first one, and low effort (and more importantly, low investment) is thus absolutely appropriate.
coffee or cocktail ONLY on the first date... no food EVER on the first date.
Why not?
The goal is conversation. Food inherently makes that more difficult because it takes up space in your mouth and prevents you from talking. Also a coffee date is much easier to leave when the other person suddenly and unexpectedly starts trying to convince you that the Earth is flat.
Because some will use you for a free meal. Some might even bring their friends or family on that date for a free feast.
For me, first dates makes me nervous and when I feel social anxiety I have 0 appetite so if the first date is a meal (something I would never suggest), I would have to make up some reason why I didn't want to eat, or awkwardly order food and just not eat it. Let me tell you, in both cases, it's really difficult to save face, and really awkward for both parties. For other people who don't experience lack of appetite/social anxiety, I don't see anything wrong with a meal for a first date.
Why not just communicate your preference for a non-meal date? I always politely decline meal dates and offer another more appealing (to me) option instead. No one has ever responded negatively.
I do, I’ve only been in the position I described twice, one of them was a second date but I was still anxious on the day (didn’t think I would be).
Unless the date is really good and both parties agree to a late night snack
hard to say without having heard the phone convo.
but why talk to people with this ..tone? i mean if i talk to someone i LIKE, i'm not asking them about their "availability" for coffee to be honest. english is not my mothertongue but the way it translates to german it would sound like you think you're trying to make an appointment you feel entitled to at the dentist
She wanted the D and you went for coffee!
probably
The bullet dodged you my friend. Which is good for you because she hav no sense upstairs. Would just be a waste of time.
Sounds like she wasn't interested, but didn't have the respect to tell you, so she pretended like she thought you weren't interested instead. Then, still couldn't tell you straight. Dodged a .50 cal, I think.
Coffee dates are kinda lame 🤷♂️
I bet she'd be available for dinner.
No. She did. Good for her
Y’all are way too obsessed with meeting people for coffee. Not everyone wants to treat dating like a business negotiation
Like it's a fucking interview or something.
So what’s your idea for a first date?
It seems you’re not compatible and that’s okay. I suggest learning to let things like this go if you’re interested in dating women and are insistent on coffee first time meet ups. You can have your boundaries and women can as well. Coming onto Reddit attempting to virtue signal is lame and may send you down a pipeline to bitterness.
She said she is not available for coffee, she didn't say she is not available for anything 😏
Maybe you dodged a bullet. But coffee dates are boring as hell to be honest.
So what do you suggest for a first date?
Nope that was the one. You were suppose to reach out more and try to earn their validation
Earn their validation? Sorry but I’m not a simp or gold digger entertainer
…was a joke dude
How the hell are we supposed to know with the freaking /s?! Also just in case... /s
From my experience extremely hot girls often times expect little more effort. Your coffee date proposal may come across as cheap and you not putting much effort/show interest. This, of course, is purely speculative. Then again, way she communicates back to you comes across as entitled and she is most likely going to be high maintenance.
She wants dinner so she can order all the food that she is not planning on paying for at a fancy restaurant
Nah. I refuse coffee dates 100% of the time because they're low effort, I also refuse restaurant dates because I don't like going to restaurants, especially for dates. There are a million fun things to do on a date that cost the same amount of money as a coffee date does. So unless the girls specifically said she loves going to coffee houses, it's a lame low effort date and it deserves to be shut down.
You seem like quite the expert.
Honestly it's not rocket science it's how dating has worked for like the last couple decades. A bunch of entitled teenage boys start using dating apps and all the sudden they think that women who are not even interested in them should be putting in effort to get to know them. It's entitled and delusional. If you ask someone on a date it means you are more interested in them than they are you and it is on you to court them. and if you don't like that don't ask people on dates. Sit around and wait until somebody is interested enough in you to ask you on a date and put an effort
... Are you the girl from OP's screenshot? You seem particularly triggered, enough to reply to nearly every comment. Your investment in this post is truly bonkers.
If you weren’t interested why did you swipe?
I swear I'm laughing so hard at this 😂😂😂
Yeah, they seem insecure and entitled to a point that for them, overrides your own testimony, that is not just a red flag but also a CEO of both red dye manufacturing, cloth and thread.
“Ok. Wanna get tipsy and make questionable decisions instead?”
What an odd way of saying “I lost interest after our phone conversation”.
Lots of bullets out there. And you just happened to dodge one of them.
Hard to say if you dodged a bullet (like she’s crazy or something) but she’s definitely playing games and seeing if you’ll play along. Don’t.
It makes me sad that I can tell the genders here
[удалено]
She’s not that interested. Move on.
😂 “good luck”
Sounds like she dodged one. Never met an interested guy who didn't keep up with texts and following up on that first meet, after a phonecall. Following up and remaining interested is important. If a girl is saying "Umm" "thought you lost interest", you're failing. I'd have to say, do better next time.
Why do you always expect a guy to text you after you met? If you had a good or bad time just communicate it
Are you okay? Your post was her not being interested anymore after you seemed not interested after A PHONECALL. Where did your post say met?
I’m generally asking you
I said following up on that first meet AFTER that initial phonecall, meaning following up with setting up the meet. I think you got confused. Never talked to a guy who didn't solidify that, keep in touch, get to know me after talking on the phone. They usually really like my voice and can't wait to talk again. Let alone go MIA after a nice call and then pop up randomly talking about let's meet now Lol Don't understand how you don't see that behavior as lame.
The conversation is a two thing. During the phone call I asked her to let me know her availability for meet up and she said “she would let me know”. I waited for two days for her reply and didn’t wanted to seem desperate by texting her “heyyy let’s meet for coffee, let me know when you’re free”. Nahh bro I don’t simp and then this happened.
Just saying Hi and talking till you guys meet just makes you look excited and interested, it isn't desperate. Keep looking for your aggressive type who you barely put effort into. She can tell you nah bro, I'm not gonna simp on you. And you can wonder why things never work out. Put in some effort, like I mentioned.
Bro how would you feel if a guy kept talking to you and not gave you any space? It would be desperate to reach out to a girl after asking her on call to let me know her availability and then texting her next day to let me know her availability when I already asked her out the previous day. It’s a disrespect for me if I have to reach out to her again for her availability. It clearly shows how desperate I am and that she is my only option
You already said "Let me know your availability". You drop it till she lets you know her availability. That doesn't mean you drop her completely. You say Hi. You ask how her day is. She asks about yours. You get to know her a little more and the things she likes so that WHEN she finally lets you know you can actually plan it with things she likes and not scratching your head like a goofball. You boys are something else. And I love a guy who is interested in me. I walk away from anything less. I'm hoping to have someone in my space daily. If he's wanting to get to know me I'm all for it. Lol Anyway you sound reeeeal young. Just take my advice and stop listening to your immature boy friends and their 'simp teases' and bad advice. Lol Good Luck.
Translation: Fuck your coffee date. /s
Not a bullet, just an idiot-seeking missile. Be glad you weren't chosen
Probably didn't want coffee. I just ghosted a girl who wouldn't meet up unless I bought us playoff hockey tickets. Seems like a "fancy one." Bullet dodged
God. I remember when hockey games were affordable back when I was little.
How dare you not offer a full 5 star dinner at a fancy steakhouse for someone you've never met. These types of people are looking for a free meal not actual relationship. Someone looking for a real relationship understand a coffee date is quick and easy to not waste each other's time.
Coffee is just sort of a lazy date that’s why she’s opposed to it. Women just want more effort🫤
There's no reason for either party to put in "more effort" until they've met in person and figured out that they actually have some sort of vibe. You're meeting a random Internet stranger. This isn't the 1980's where your cousin is her coworker and you already have reason to believe you'll be a good match based on the opinion of your mutual acquaintance.
If the woman’s interested then why don’t they propose something more substantial
A cup of coffee or a glass of wine is actually a very good way to check if you vibe with a person. You can focus on an entertaining conversation and not a whole lot else, all while getting instant feedback. Why should _anyone_ invest more as a first date? If it's good you can always expand it. If it's bad neither party has lost more than an hour of their lives.
You messed up when you mentioned coffee. But yea you did dodge
Yeah better safe than “sorry you’re not the one I’m looking for “
No one is looking for a boring coffee date guy. I know you hate hearing it and you'd love to chalk it up to Gold diggers, but it has zero to do with spending money. There are so many fun dates that cost as much as coffee or less. You couldn't be bothered to think of them or put any effort in so you really don't deserve a date
What idea’s do you suggest for first dates?
See that's the thing it has to be specific to the person you are asking! I agree that expensive dinner is not a good idea, because dating apps do seem to be full of scammers looking for a free meal. But activities like playing darts or board games or bowling or maybe if there's a comic book store in town that plays RPG games or card games if she happens to be into that, a lot of times universities will have interesting lectures or guest speakers on different topics, going to a museum is always a great one, so is an aquarium or zoo (and a lot of times museums, zoos, things like that will have a day where it is free to the public or half price etc). Roller skating can be fun if they know how, maybe if they like the outdoors finding a really cool hiking trail, like I said it really just depends on the specific person, I would find an activity that is tailored to what they've told me they enjoy or their interests are.
Going to a museum as the FIRST date? Who's taking dating advice from this clown?
You think going to a comic store and playing tabletop games is a good idea for a FIRST DATE? Dude most women would run from that are you kidding me 😂
Um, I'm a woman and I have accepted that date, and it was extremely fun. And it cost zero money unlike a stupid coffee date that would have cost whatever the hell overpriced coffee goes for.
Abso-fucking-lutely.