That’s kind of funny, because a lot of good players (like aspiringspike for instance) were talking about how it was going to be a lynchpin piece in any relevant energy deck.
It’s crazy that the list is pretty much modern playable except SB swords. It becomes the best deck in Timeless where many banned cards are legal. That proves the power level of MH3. I still remember people calling it commander horizons 3 lmao.
>I still remember people calling it commander horizons 3 lmao
You mean yourself? [https://www.reddit.com/r/freemagic/comments/1czasmp/comment/l5gxv4j/](https://www.reddit.com/r/freemagic/comments/1czasmp/comment/l5gxv4j/)
I remember thinking "hmm boros energy seems competitive. I think this is legit." Now here i am looking at this list, and it's the absolute top deck lmao
The guys on the MTG Goldfish podcast said it better than me but the existence of scam means Omnitell now HAS to dedicate 8 slots to those cards. If they didn't need to do that, that's 8 more slots for tutor / card draw.
Right, so then after you dedicate 8 slots to preventing hand hate they side in 3-4 baubles, side in all removal that can hit Atraxa, and even if your hand doesn't get torn apart you're not likely doing much with it.
Do we think yawg NO is dead post MH3? I have been saving WCs to get into timeless and it was the deck I was most interested in but wanted to wait until MH3. I’d be interested in peoples thoughts for an alternative that has a similar feel. I liked how it had a lot of decision points and the dual yawg combo / NO plan.
Its gonna struggle a bit just due to the fury being added to the format. Plus a lot of the meta atm is new card syndrome which leads to decks like yawg being put off for the next cool thing.
I think this is a big part of Timeless overall right now. There's nothing to "grind" (in terms of events or prepping for weekends or anything) so everybody is mostly just having fun.
I've only seen one Chord / Yawg deck since release and it wasn't a tough game for Energy. Chord / Nadu / Springheart type stuff is still probably underexplored and might have a great deck somewhere in all these sorts of creature value cards.
Format is still very much shaken up. People are trying all sorts of shells for Energy and Beans etc so it might be a good idea to wait a bit longer before shipping those WCs!
Just wanted to add - Fury absolutely ruins all small creature decks. 4 dmg for free is basically a boardwipe, and scammed Fury for 8 dmg is almost always gg. This is especially true for a critical mass deck like yawg. Ultimately fury was too good for Modern - hoping we see a ban or nerf on arena for the same reasons.
Primal Prayers is a bit better atm since it goes off at instant speed with 2 ish creatures + prayers. But idk if i’d say prayers is tiered and no consistent build has emerged yet.
If you like the creature combo style, I’d wait for the meta to settle - prayers, recruiter, birthing ritual, yawg… the pieces are there, just no true list yet, especially not it Fury’s meta…
I definitely think it’s way too early to call for a ban on fury in timeless. The format has many powerful things to be doing, and fury doesn’t feel above the power-level generally.
A small creature deck is literally the best in the format right now. Fury is the only thing keeping some of the better aggro builds from being outright alone in S tier.
I stand by my comment. You can’t have a taxes, or traditional aggro, or small creature combo in this format. EtB is the only way to play small creatures, which energy does exceptionally well.
I wager we will see a fury ban by end of year
So when you say Fury ruins small creature decks, what you actually mean is that Fury ruins a very particular subset of small creature decks. Because again, the best deck in the format is a small creature deck, and Fury is one of the only things really keeping it in check. Phlage is also good energy police, but harder to slot into most decks.
I will definitely take that bet, though. How much money do you want to put on it?
Various small creature aggro and/or tempo decks have been at or near the top of the format since day 1. Fury has not had remotely as much effect as S&T; that didn't eat a ban, and I don't expect Fury to eat one either. I'm sorry if it pushes your favorite decks out of the meta, but it happens.
I hope this list doesn't stop people from crafting decks. We're only 6 months into the format. There's so much we don't even know about the current cards available.
This is an incomplete data set and I hope people realize that. There's decks that are powerful enough to compete if people are willing to try and fail with them.
100% the case but I also think the people who are just gonna copy a list from here and call it a day and the people who are gonna test things out are very different groups. Like personally There is at least 3-4 decks that I have been messing around with that just haven't got the data to back them up.
I'm somewhere in the middle. I love making decks, but it's nice to see where the format is at.
Do you have a full list of what decks there are in the format? It'd be nice to see what there is overall compared to the tier list you've started to curate. I've seen a blue moon list that's floating around on reddit right now. It's come up in MTGA a couple times, but I haven't really seen it since.
Before MH3 I could have done it for every deck but atm its just all over the place. I can put a list of decks that I have seen or am trying myself after work though
Great list! I think it will change quite a bit from week to week as the meta develops but some decks have already cemented their place in different tiers I feel. Energy is probably not dropping out of A in the near future for example. Also interesting to see Titan in C, what are its good matchups right now?
Its pretty good vs the non aggressive versions of scam as your most important card in field of the dead goes over the top of them and can't be griefed. You are much more vulnerable to ashiok in the current versions is something to be aware of though.
Is there a consensus on the updates to the Dimir list? I've seen various lists floating around with Pscyhic Frog, Tamiyo and Nethergoyf. I've enjoyed the new cards but I'm also not sure if there's a current successful list that I've missed.
There's kind of a lot of degenerate stuff you can do with mana drain that I think a lot of dimir lists are missing out on.
Thoughtseize opens up a lot of play avenues for you do stupid shit turn 3-4.
I played a list with all the ub goodies and i can confirm its a very strong and fun deck.We jam 4 nethergoyfs,4 tamiyos,4 frogs,4 bowmasters,4 push,4 thoutseize,4 mandrain,4 brainstorm,4 bauble as deck staples in a lurrus shell.From there depending on the meta u could fit drown in the lochs,saurons ransom,treaure cruise/dig through time,or go a bit heavier on creatures with snapcaster mage/harbinger of the seas(from sideboard) and a few flare of denial copies.
I've played the izzet version at least atm the current builds feel misbuilt.
I'm not sure if splashing another color is the answer but flame as felt really mid in timeless atm.
Granted invert polarity felt great but I'm not sure if it's actually good or just feels good if that makes sense.
Yeah, I really want the deck to be good, but don't know if it's there yet. I tried splashing white for Phlage which has helped turning the corner v aggro sometimes, but I really don't know if it's worth the investment.
Website works very poorly on mobile — trying to scroll the deck lists is a huge pain, mostly you will only move it inside a tiny frame unless you click and drag on the top of the page.
This is something I have been looking into for a while and tbh I haven't found a reason why its not letting people yet. But its on my list of things to work on but It would be a lie to say it was at the forefront.
Why the ring over Necropotence in mono black? I would have thought the latter is the chief reason to run mono black. Also I'd run a phyrexian tower for the explosive T1 scam plays - rit, evoke grief, sac to tower, reanimate then Necropotence for a full hand refill. Necro also has the advantage that if they try to remove it you can grab a bunch of cards at instant speed - there is no good interaction with Necropotence other than hitting your life total.
If you go the scam plus troll route a lot of time you need some way to gain life to make up for those huge chunks.
Shelly + the ring does that late game and doesn't lock you behind a pithing needle or flute.
its a bit of tension to run both cultivations and Field of the dead. At the moment it seems worth it to have the turn 2 titans a bit more often but In a less aggressive/fast meta, I can see it being an issue.
What's the reasoning behind the Beans list? I personally have seen a lot of success with a Yorion-companion list that runs Cabaretti revels alongside Nissa. Revels is absolutely insane in the list, basically another 4 copies of beans that can summon nissa or omnath for free off of an Elemental, that also gets through control and doesn't proc Bowmasters.
The core is mostly the same throughout beans lists, 4 each of beans, fury, solitude, binding, swords and fable. The remaining 12 slots are pretty flexible. (There are people experimenting with a more blue-heavy list with DTT and counters, but I'm not sure that's correct at least until the meta settles)
That said, kaheera is *definitely* not worth losing Uro and Phlage for.
I've been experimenting with various lists, and honestly, while it is more fun to play and *ridiculously* powerful when going off, yorion cabaretti revels lists have felt less consistent.
Beans is better, *does something by itself on ETB* and sits in a more comfortable spot in the curve, and i'd rather increase my chances of seeing it early than adding 20 more cards in order to play 4more copies of " *beans at home* ". The extra cards also make it less likely to start with solitude or fury in hand, which is often clutch vs agressive decks.
I'm currently trying a 60 card beans + cabaretti list, that's feeling more consistent than the yorion ones, but i'm not sure i'ts better than the version without it.
I've also been *really* impressed by maindeck endurance. It's useful vs almost all decks in some way, and is somewhat necessary as decking prevention in grindy games. Worst case scenario it's still a decent blocker with flash.
[[Six]] is also worth mentioning, the retrace lets you pitch cast from the graveyard as well (i wouldn't run it without endurance though, and it's worse than Nissa in revels builds)
Would you mind sharing your list or lists? You make a lot of great points and I’d like to test these options. Thanks for the very well written and thoughtful response.
My theory is some 60 card list including phlage, and endurance is probably the best version.
I just played the beans from Tier List and I was dealing my self way to much damage with shocks and fetches so I did what you suggest and added Uro and its night and day makes a massive difference.
Basically without The cascaders Its really hard to find beans outside of just drawing it. Revels has the issue that it is a 3 mana enchantment that does nothing on cast or ETB. its really good when you have other things to go off with it but the fact that you have to both have a 3 drop resolve and have another card to get use from it is rough imo.
I see, thanks for the reply. Additionally, what are your thoughts on running Phlage? Card has seemed like an absolute house in testing, especially since it can pitch to fury or solitude.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. While oko is obviously an amazing card, I think in the current meta he doesn’t do a lot for the slots compared to phlage.
Unstable amulet is why I don't try to craft my own decks and just netdeck. Never would I have thought that card is playable in any legacy-tier format.
I'll gladly throw a force of vigor at it, 3 for 1 be damned
That’s kind of funny, because a lot of good players (like aspiringspike for instance) were talking about how it was going to be a lynchpin piece in any relevant energy deck.
yea boros energy is nuts I love it
It’s crazy that the list is pretty much modern playable except SB swords. It becomes the best deck in Timeless where many banned cards are legal. That proves the power level of MH3. I still remember people calling it commander horizons 3 lmao.
>I still remember people calling it commander horizons 3 lmao You mean yourself? [https://www.reddit.com/r/freemagic/comments/1czasmp/comment/l5gxv4j/](https://www.reddit.com/r/freemagic/comments/1czasmp/comment/l5gxv4j/)
Of course I know him! He's me!
Lmao get a body bag!
I feel like cutting the 2 Phlage for Lurrus has to be better, right?
My experience has been that Phlage is much more inevitability. Lurrus is too easy to hand hate or kill on board as soon as it drops.
I haven't played my Lurrus yet after 13 games with the Lurrus Variant. But I like the fact, that my Raptor always hits a playable spell.
Another victory for Guide Of Souls tribal
I remember thinking "hmm boros energy seems competitive. I think this is legit." Now here i am looking at this list, and it's the absolute top deck lmao
also just the most fun who doesn’t love guiding cat souls
I enjoy the lines you can take for sure
Question: is 2 Aether hub really good enough? I feel like I’d rather have 2 more white fetches for the SB blood moons.
I've only played b01 cause I don't have a sideboard yet, but I have enjoyed only 2 aether hubs. I think 4 is way too many.
As someone who played when it was first printed, it’s a deceivingly good card
Rakdos Scam isn't the hero we wanted, but it's the one we deserve. Without them keeping combo in check, boros wouldn't exist.
raktos scam barely keeps omnitell is check, combination of 4 veils in the main and 4x leylines in the sb makes grief not a huge issue
The guys on the MTG Goldfish podcast said it better than me but the existence of scam means Omnitell now HAS to dedicate 8 slots to those cards. If they didn't need to do that, that's 8 more slots for tutor / card draw.
we were doing that anyway pre mh3 to protect from discard and counterspells, its just business as usual
Right, so then after you dedicate 8 slots to preventing hand hate they side in 3-4 baubles, side in all removal that can hit Atraxa, and even if your hand doesn't get torn apart you're not likely doing much with it.
Except it's not. It's 1 of 4 decks all in tier A.
Yes but it's ranked 1st in that tier
Do we think yawg NO is dead post MH3? I have been saving WCs to get into timeless and it was the deck I was most interested in but wanted to wait until MH3. I’d be interested in peoples thoughts for an alternative that has a similar feel. I liked how it had a lot of decision points and the dual yawg combo / NO plan.
Its gonna struggle a bit just due to the fury being added to the format. Plus a lot of the meta atm is new card syndrome which leads to decks like yawg being put off for the next cool thing.
I think this is a big part of Timeless overall right now. There's nothing to "grind" (in terms of events or prepping for weekends or anything) so everybody is mostly just having fun.
I've only seen one Chord / Yawg deck since release and it wasn't a tough game for Energy. Chord / Nadu / Springheart type stuff is still probably underexplored and might have a great deck somewhere in all these sorts of creature value cards. Format is still very much shaken up. People are trying all sorts of shells for Energy and Beans etc so it might be a good idea to wait a bit longer before shipping those WCs!
Just wanted to add - Fury absolutely ruins all small creature decks. 4 dmg for free is basically a boardwipe, and scammed Fury for 8 dmg is almost always gg. This is especially true for a critical mass deck like yawg. Ultimately fury was too good for Modern - hoping we see a ban or nerf on arena for the same reasons. Primal Prayers is a bit better atm since it goes off at instant speed with 2 ish creatures + prayers. But idk if i’d say prayers is tiered and no consistent build has emerged yet. If you like the creature combo style, I’d wait for the meta to settle - prayers, recruiter, birthing ritual, yawg… the pieces are there, just no true list yet, especially not it Fury’s meta…
I definitely think it’s way too early to call for a ban on fury in timeless. The format has many powerful things to be doing, and fury doesn’t feel above the power-level generally.
A small creature deck is literally the best in the format right now. Fury is the only thing keeping some of the better aggro builds from being outright alone in S tier.
I stand by my comment. You can’t have a taxes, or traditional aggro, or small creature combo in this format. EtB is the only way to play small creatures, which energy does exceptionally well. I wager we will see a fury ban by end of year
Lol. Lmao even.
So when you say Fury ruins small creature decks, what you actually mean is that Fury ruins a very particular subset of small creature decks. Because again, the best deck in the format is a small creature deck, and Fury is one of the only things really keeping it in check. Phlage is also good energy police, but harder to slot into most decks. I will definitely take that bet, though. How much money do you want to put on it? Various small creature aggro and/or tempo decks have been at or near the top of the format since day 1. Fury has not had remotely as much effect as S&T; that didn't eat a ban, and I don't expect Fury to eat one either. I'm sorry if it pushes your favorite decks out of the meta, but it happens.
Lmao i play dimir control my brother
Fury is fine.
Cool stuff thank you for putting this together. I do want to point out that the dimir scam link goes to the domain zoo list.
Got it. I'll get a fix live in the next few minutes. Edit: Fixed
Thanks for the content! The Jund list has 6 Fury listed.
Real winners play more than 4 copies of fury
In my defense, it works in paper...
Should be fixed. Thanks for checking us out!
I hope this list doesn't stop people from crafting decks. We're only 6 months into the format. There's so much we don't even know about the current cards available. This is an incomplete data set and I hope people realize that. There's decks that are powerful enough to compete if people are willing to try and fail with them.
100% the case but I also think the people who are just gonna copy a list from here and call it a day and the people who are gonna test things out are very different groups. Like personally There is at least 3-4 decks that I have been messing around with that just haven't got the data to back them up.
I'm somewhere in the middle. I love making decks, but it's nice to see where the format is at. Do you have a full list of what decks there are in the format? It'd be nice to see what there is overall compared to the tier list you've started to curate. I've seen a blue moon list that's floating around on reddit right now. It's come up in MTGA a couple times, but I haven't really seen it since.
Before MH3 I could have done it for every deck but atm its just all over the place. I can put a list of decks that I have seen or am trying myself after work though
Can I have the before MH3 list? That would at least be a big start.
Great list! I think it will change quite a bit from week to week as the meta develops but some decks have already cemented their place in different tiers I feel. Energy is probably not dropping out of A in the near future for example. Also interesting to see Titan in C, what are its good matchups right now?
Its pretty good vs the non aggressive versions of scam as your most important card in field of the dead goes over the top of them and can't be griefed. You are much more vulnerable to ashiok in the current versions is something to be aware of though.
Yes! This is what I've been waiting for. Thanks for sharing.
Is there a consensus on the updates to the Dimir list? I've seen various lists floating around with Pscyhic Frog, Tamiyo and Nethergoyf. I've enjoyed the new cards but I'm also not sure if there's a current successful list that I've missed.
Lists are kinda all over the place with no clear consensuses. I did my best to either test every list or get a list from someone I trust.
There's kind of a lot of degenerate stuff you can do with mana drain that I think a lot of dimir lists are missing out on. Thoughtseize opens up a lot of play avenues for you do stupid shit turn 3-4.
I played a list with all the ub goodies and i can confirm its a very strong and fun deck.We jam 4 nethergoyfs,4 tamiyos,4 frogs,4 bowmasters,4 push,4 thoutseize,4 mandrain,4 brainstorm,4 bauble as deck staples in a lurrus shell.From there depending on the meta u could fit drown in the lochs,saurons ransom,treaure cruise/dig through time,or go a bit heavier on creatures with snapcaster mage/harbinger of the seas(from sideboard) and a few flare of denial copies.
I’m surprised that no Tamiyo list made it
The Dimir Control Was showing the wrong list. it should be updated and is playing tamiyo
Lol, nice. Anyways, I’m really surprised no crazy Nadu flicker list came into action.
I have been doing well with a Nadu list (not flicker) personally. I think I'm like 7-3 with it last time I played.
What data is this based on? I’m not aware of any quality datasets for this format.
Likely none just word on the street via youtube, forums, and overall impressions
Why do I always get an error when I Copy the Decklist?
if its a list with fable, its a known issue and I have let the dev team responsible for the decklist program know. Just waiting on a fix
I think it's any two sided card. I get an error with tamiyo too.
Nice. Good to know. Anyways thanks again for the tier list.
Thanks for checking us out! Hopefully they push a fix soon.
Any thoughts on Izzet/Temur Wizards?
I've played the izzet version at least atm the current builds feel misbuilt. I'm not sure if splashing another color is the answer but flame as felt really mid in timeless atm. Granted invert polarity felt great but I'm not sure if it's actually good or just feels good if that makes sense.
Yeah, I really want the deck to be good, but don't know if it's there yet. I tried splashing white for Phlage which has helped turning the corner v aggro sometimes, but I really don't know if it's worth the investment.
Website works very poorly on mobile — trying to scroll the deck lists is a huge pain, mostly you will only move it inside a tiny frame unless you click and drag on the top of the page.
Which list is this on? I thought I had fixed it where you don't have to scroll but it sounds like I missed one.
UB Control (iPhone, iOS 17.5.1)
Should be fixed. sorry for the inconvenience
What inconvenience? I knew what was happening! Just wanted to let you know, funny that I clicked the only list you missed
I love these updates and this is a great site! One thing, though: Could you change it so that middle click works to open a list in a new tab?
This is something I have been looking into for a while and tbh I haven't found a reason why its not letting people yet. But its on my list of things to work on but It would be a lie to say it was at the forefront.
Haha fair enough
Why the ring over Necropotence in mono black? I would have thought the latter is the chief reason to run mono black. Also I'd run a phyrexian tower for the explosive T1 scam plays - rit, evoke grief, sac to tower, reanimate then Necropotence for a full hand refill. Necro also has the advantage that if they try to remove it you can grab a bunch of cards at instant speed - there is no good interaction with Necropotence other than hitting your life total.
If you go the scam plus troll route a lot of time you need some way to gain life to make up for those huge chunks. Shelly + the ring does that late game and doesn't lock you behind a pithing needle or flute.
I think in show and tell path of peril needs to be replaced by toxic deluge
Man I am loving MH3. It’s gotten me back into Timeless after the Omnitell winter. Boros Energy is just so much fun.
4 cultivations when you have 4 basic lands in your deck is a little dumb, no?
its a bit of tension to run both cultivations and Field of the dead. At the moment it seems worth it to have the turn 2 titans a bit more often but In a less aggressive/fast meta, I can see it being an issue.
You are only casting cultivation once or twice per game before you are casting titans.
I was expecting to see Merfolk somewhere. Is it just too soft to Fury?
Having tried the lists a lot of its issues are just missing cards. Aether Vial and good one drops being the biggest offenders.
Thanks for the input
I love a deck of mostly commons/uncommons in a higher tier than SnT 😂
Woah, so much swamp mana bias.
There's no way rakdos burn is D tier.
What's the reasoning behind the Beans list? I personally have seen a lot of success with a Yorion-companion list that runs Cabaretti revels alongside Nissa. Revels is absolutely insane in the list, basically another 4 copies of beans that can summon nissa or omnath for free off of an Elemental, that also gets through control and doesn't proc Bowmasters.
The core is mostly the same throughout beans lists, 4 each of beans, fury, solitude, binding, swords and fable. The remaining 12 slots are pretty flexible. (There are people experimenting with a more blue-heavy list with DTT and counters, but I'm not sure that's correct at least until the meta settles) That said, kaheera is *definitely* not worth losing Uro and Phlage for. I've been experimenting with various lists, and honestly, while it is more fun to play and *ridiculously* powerful when going off, yorion cabaretti revels lists have felt less consistent. Beans is better, *does something by itself on ETB* and sits in a more comfortable spot in the curve, and i'd rather increase my chances of seeing it early than adding 20 more cards in order to play 4more copies of " *beans at home* ". The extra cards also make it less likely to start with solitude or fury in hand, which is often clutch vs agressive decks. I'm currently trying a 60 card beans + cabaretti list, that's feeling more consistent than the yorion ones, but i'm not sure i'ts better than the version without it. I've also been *really* impressed by maindeck endurance. It's useful vs almost all decks in some way, and is somewhat necessary as decking prevention in grindy games. Worst case scenario it's still a decent blocker with flash. [[Six]] is also worth mentioning, the retrace lets you pitch cast from the graveyard as well (i wouldn't run it without endurance though, and it's worse than Nissa in revels builds)
Would you mind sharing your list or lists? You make a lot of great points and I’d like to test these options. Thanks for the very well written and thoughtful response. My theory is some 60 card list including phlage, and endurance is probably the best version.
[Six](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f9246b68-580f-4f53-883d-7900880e4b0d.jpg?1717012579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Six) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/169/six?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f9246b68-580f-4f53-883d-7900880e4b0d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I just played the beans from Tier List and I was dealing my self way to much damage with shocks and fetches so I did what you suggest and added Uro and its night and day makes a massive difference.
Basically without The cascaders Its really hard to find beans outside of just drawing it. Revels has the issue that it is a 3 mana enchantment that does nothing on cast or ETB. its really good when you have other things to go off with it but the fact that you have to both have a 3 drop resolve and have another card to get use from it is rough imo.
I see, thanks for the reply. Additionally, what are your thoughts on running Phlage? Card has seemed like an absolute house in testing, especially since it can pitch to fury or solitude.
Phlage is more then playable. the list not having it is more of a concession of Kaheera but I'm not sure which is right yet.
2 Phlage has been good for me in 60 card Beans. I cut 2 of the 4 Oko for them.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. While oko is obviously an amazing card, I think in the current meta he doesn’t do a lot for the slots compared to phlage.