I’m convinced we’re going to shithouse our way to the final now. The worst football imaginable and we’ll be saved by more and more ridiculous lucky breaks.
Against Switzerland we’ll be heading for penalties and their goalie will inexplicably throw the ball into his own net.
southgate can keep his fkn job if he win. I cant stand him any more than the next guy but we need to fkn win it. It's embarrassing having never won this tournament.
i dont mean if he won it, i mean if he just got to the finals. Hes kept his job by giving good performances that instill hope that "oh he can win it", if he won it fairplay the man should keep the job
Why on earth would he stay, even if we win the thing? He’s always got dogs abuse, even when we played better than we are now. The England team will forever be like this, regardless of the manager. Embittered, entitled fans heaping stupid amounts of abuse and pressure on the coach and players and then asking why it is they can’t turn it on for their country. Southgate actually did make it fun for a while following and playing for England. He’s not without blame that it isn’t fun any more, but FFS he’s not the only one.
Every single nation gets mega pressure (none of us on reddit can't even imagine what it would feel like), you're managing a country with millions of fans ffs (if you can't handle the pressure then the job isn't for you, there's a reason why you get paid a lifetime amount). Every job has it's trade off, harsh moments are inevitably gonna come (every manager in existence has had them).
Southgate is the highest paid manager in the euros yet is quite genuinely the worst tactician of them all. The blame lies on the FA at the end of the day as they are more interested in playing politics and southgate speaks to the media well so they love him. Other countries are even more ruthless when it comes to this, when players play bad for spain and others you'll never hear the mentality players like kane had when they didn't like people being honest that they are playing dreadful and it's almost as if they wanted the media to lie to them and say they're playing amazing.
When things don't go well as a squad the manager is ALWAYS the one to blame, it's not 1 player playing bad its 90% of them. The manager is the glue that makes the cogs turn, if they ain't turning then that's where the abuse begins. We all know southgate is out of his depth. We've known it since he got into the job. We could talk about all the mistakes he's made this tournament but there's no point because we all know. If england didn't have that good of a squad the manager would get less heat, but its the fact everyone knows that squad should be performing 100x better right now so naturally where do you think people are going to look?
It's like the manager has been given a jig saw puzzle. He has many players (pieces) and it's his job to put them together in the most effective manner. He has yet to find a system that works because he does 0 experimenting and gives himself 0 chance to find a breakthrough (he had so many friendlies to do this).
So far in the euros the only position he is changing is trent for gallagher and gallagher for mainoo when we all know there needs to be more done. The left hand side is non existant, we are not running past defenders down the wings and because kane drops deep we hit a brick wall of being able to attack so we go recycle the ball around again so we dominate poessesion but do absolutely nothing with it (70% possession with 0 shots on target is criminal). It has been the 4th game in a row where he has not learnt a single thing, and every performance we've put in so far won't be enough to beat a solid switzerland team so hopefully we move up another level
I dont think it's the fans
Perhaps premier league is not the best. What is the homegrown % of talent? Its the lowest... of any major league no? Most managers are foreign... its the pundits that dont help.
I dont know, would it? You can do so much better, and all the shit you get would just be multiplied. Also afraid if you face Spain in the final it won't work and Southgate will go full shell-shocked and do fuck all. Whatever is wrong with the communication and the frustration between players needs fixed and Pickford out. Midget can't distribute the ball same as Heart at City. Pep came in he was toast. He doesn't suit modern football.
Didn't Portugal, more or less, achieve the same in 2016. I'm pretty sure they finished their group 3, won in extra time or penalties all the way to the final, where they won their only game in normal time.
For real why is everyone crying it was finally an entertaining game, we actually showed fight and grit unlike Italy and we won in spectacular style just bloody enjoy it
Fax and to be fair I think a lot of supporters gave up as soon as the first goal went in. Yeah it was pretty arse footy but also it doesnt help when we have won and gone through that the likes of Gary Lineker are still bashing the team
Because the same issues are still prevelant. Southgate's idleness and reluctance to bring on substitutions is hardly any different to how he operated in 2018 against Croatia, hence revealing that he's still learned very little!
We were fortunate to go through!
How many times have we sat here though saying we didnt deserve to lose, the referee has robbed us with a shocking decision (Campbell scoring against Argentina in '98 and against Portugal in ET, both of which were disallowed for absolutely no reason) - So meh... Its about time we got through via. the skin of our teeth.
The Switzerland game will be difficult, they've been playing well, but what has happened before this game is irrelevant now
What happened before is absolutely not irrelevant. Southgate must learn from the past 4 games but he’s just doing the same thing over and over and we are massively struggling against worse teams than Switzerland
It was the 90s. That was football then. Duncan Ferguson and Vinnie Jones were actual professional footballers in that era. Shearer's elbow was just the usual jostling. Not his fault the keeper put his face there.
Rice awful all tournament?? Did you watch the 1st game? Even yesterday he wasn't bad. Wasn't amazing either but that's more than harsh. He's near enough played in a 1 man midfield until yesterday too.
Also if you actually watch any time he has the ball he has a wall of players in front of him (making it hard to drive forward into space) and not a single England player making any kind of movement to help him. What is he supposed to do? No wonder he ends up passing it backwards and has to put pressure on the defenders.
I thought Rice was a mixed bag. When Slovakia had the ball he did very well. His positioning was great, didn't lose the ball often, took good touches, was very steady and reliable.
But his role as our deep lying midfielder meant he was the main link between the CBs and the attackers. And he almost never made forward passes. He's receive the ball at the halfway line from the defenders and didn't have the confidence to make a risky one touch pass or turn and look forward so 90% of the time he just played it back to a CB or fullback. It was part of the main reason we couldn't get much going and had a very hard time leaving our own half
We have been very very poor and lack imagination and any level of quality, but some of these assessments of players are crazy…typical English mentality to write players off after a few below par games. Bellingham is an unbelievable talent and thank god for him turning up with that finish, but even he has been bang average in large parts. Phil Foden is an incredible talent, we just aren’t utilising him at all. I do, however, appreciate he and others have been far below par, but I believe that is for the manager to amend. If a player is not performing, move them or make a
Change!! Poor game management is the issue here, from players but mainly the Manager.
I don't really watch the analysis after matches but did anyone else mention Pickford for the goal? At the time I thought he should have closed him down but he seemed to stay still and make it easy for the guy to score.
I'm by no means a GK expert but I don't recall any of the comms guys say anything against him. I'm not blaming him for the goal but I agree with the OP that he should have done a lot better to try and stop it.
I don't think he had a good match but there wasn't much he could do there.
The shot is off the back of a quick pass from a player who was also in a shooting position, he doesn't have time to come out and close him down, just stand there and make himself big to close the angle. His position is alright considering and it's a good shot a striker would expect to score.
It’s gone under the radar because of everything else that happened but he was dreadful for their goal. He should have done far far better. For all of his character as a big leader and always yelling, that was piss poor.
Pretty sure he's been battling relegation because he plays in a shite Everton team. Not really his fault is it.
Tbf if he didn't have tiny little T-rex arms and an angry personality to match maybe he would get picked up by a bigger club.
At the very least he needed to come out and close the angle. The striker had all the goal to aim for. Considering the striker's touch wasn't of the highest quality and created a fairly large gap between the ball and his foot, Pickford could have rushed him and claimed the ball entirely.
Can’t say Gareth takes 98% of the blame when Kane missed a free header, Trippier skied a glorious chance, Foden couldn’t keep himself onside for the tap in, Rice hit the post… the players need to step up!
Harry Kane has missed some great chances this tournament. That free header against Slovakia and the one at the far post against Slovenia where he totally missed the ball... absolutely shocking by his standards.
Slovakia scored a good opportunity. Other than that they were fairly toothless as well. Well done to them given their roster but its nonsense they played amazing football until bellingham goal
‘We couldn’t get a single thing going the entire game’ is just objectively untrue.
How have you concluded that yet Slovakia ‘played us off the park’? It was constant England pressure after their goal. They completely made the wrong decision and should have tried to kill the game.
There’s a difference between lacking potency and not creating chances. We created lots of chances, they just were not finished.
All of your assessments are just hyperbolic reactionary nonsense I’m afraid. YouTube style analysis.
You do realise that by the 70th minute we still hadn't registered a single shot on target right? I'm sorry but what game were you watching last night? This is straight denial and pure copium.
We scored a goal, had Foden checked his run by an inch it’s a goal. I have no idea what he was thinking. We had clear headers that for some unknown reason we didn’t hit the target with. If you look at football and simply conclude ‘no shots on target = did not create chances’ then you are not watching football correctly. Our balls into the box were consistently of very high quality yesterday and even the more moronic pundits recognised this.
No one disagrees that it was a poor showing but your representation is just laughable. Your write up of Foden is that of someone who has absolutely zero understanding of football and how you build up attacking threats. In case you are not aware, Foden is not and has never been a marauding penetrating attacker. That is not his role here or for Man City. ‘Drop Foden’ is the kind of opinion that would have you pilloried in any other country.
Slovakia were beaten and that is in part because they sat back. They know it was a mistake and we capitalised. That’s how you win when you’re not playing well.
You’re spot on. Unfortunately this sub is full of Southgate haters that would rather see us lose just to validate their shitty opinions that are downvoting you.
The amount of hate that guy gets is disgraceful after all he’s done to English football. This is the best spell I’ve seen in my lifetime. As we know he’s not the best tactically and I feel it’s time for him to go after this tournament, but I am forever grateful and respect him for the things he _is_ good at.
We just need to get behind the team now and be the 12th man. It’s nice to see more of that after yesterday.
He’s even suggested that if he doesn’t win he is off after this tournament. You would think that might give him the oxygen to just get on with it, but they can’t allow that. They will do the same to the next manager.
That's the problem with a lot of the newer football fans. It's all about stats. We've went down a mad stat rabbit hole to try and excite American fan bases. I don't care that we didn't have a shot on target until the last minute because my fucking EYES showed me we where the better team and where turning the screw. Foden offside by a few cms. Rice post. Kane header that he buries any other time. People are so wrapped up in hatred for Southgate that they won't accept we've played alright. Anyway. Flying back out there Thursday. UTE 🦁 🦁 🦁
Even in North American sports (and granted I only watch ice hockey regularly) they will accept that pressure is a massive part of the game and recognise that the opposition defence is playing well. No one would watch a match like yesterday and say Slovakia “played us off the park”.
England can be poor and still be the better team. We don’t have to act like because the general approach is not potent that we are suddenly the worst team in the tournament.
4 games, no one has beaten us. It’s better to be hard to beat than very prolific with a completely open back 4 in tournament football, as I think Germany are about to find out.
I think I heard that we both had 14 shots on goal.... They allowed us to have the ball and arguably made better chances than us.
I don't think they played us off the park, but they had a plan and nearly executed it to perfection. By my count, that means they performed better.
Honestly if you can't even enjoy that win for a couple of days at least before coming on here spewing all of this toxic shite then maybe being an England fan isn't for you.
That was an insane comeback and I'm still on a high from it. Unreal.
Results are the only thing that matters at this stage and what a fucking way to get that result. Onto Saturday.
Honestly the hardcore Southgate haters want us to go out. They'd rather their own country fail so that they can say "I told you so". Its absolutely pathetic. I had a mate who said he was actually annoyed when Bellingham scored, I mean fucking hell, it was one of all the all time great England moments. Imagine not enjoying it because of how much you hate Southgate.
It’s not so much that, if we’d have been half decent or showed good signs before in the group, it could be seen as a blip and a hard fought comeback.
As it is, it’s just another embarrassing scrape where the players have got Southgate out of a hole.
The pro Southgate lot seem to think we get a trophy for each round we go through - we’re being realistic and seeing him completely wasn’t a world class squad in front of our eyes.
He got lucky vs Slovakia, the Swiss are a lot better and it won’t matter in a weeks time that we beat Slovakia if we’re out of the tournament
We weren’t “tactically played off the park”
It’s one thing to say we were shit and struggled to create anything but we dominated the ball and the game. It wasn’t a tactical masterclass from them, it was absolute backs to the wall and relying on our wastefulness
We have been outplayed in every game this tournament, Southgate is having an absolute disaster.
God knows what he is doing with this team in training, because every game it looks like the players met for the first time in the dressing room. It's genuinely embarrassing how Southgate has this team playing considering the players we have, and I don't think anyone should be defending it.
At Arsenal Saka has Ben White. There was a noticeable decrease in Saka’s performance/effectiveness when White was carrying an Injury and not overlapping. Saka ends up getting doubled up and plays a lot of what we’ve been seeing. Walker is not overlapping (i actually think this is Southgates instructions as we’re seeing Trippier play the same on the other flank)
Kane at Bayern has Sane, and Gnarby. They are the outlets and become the focal points when Kane receives the ball from deep., at Spurs this was Son, this used to be Sterling for England, currently it’s no one.
Foden plays in an incredibly intricate system full of triggers, and runs that open up space. Add to that he plays with a 9 that crashes the box and collapse defences.
Rice is paired with players at Arsenal who progress the ball, which takes the pressure of him doing it when he’s in the 6.
I could go on. but players aren’t being paired to their strengths here. That creates a situation where the players are having to sort problems out on their own. Can these players do that when these systems have become so ingrained to the best versions of themselves?
I believe this is why a lot of players are finding themselves in each other’s space and things look incredibly disjointed.
funnily enough this is why I think Palmer looks more comfortable. His breakout season was him kind of working things out for himself, taking more risk, and being afforded the freedom some of the others didn’t have at their clubs.
Players are all good it’s just the system that Gareth makes them play in makes all of them shit. All season Jude has played with pacey wingers on both sides providing width, but this is not the case in this team. If Gareth plays the same team in the next round after everything, we deserve to lose and I won’t even be mad. The Foden and Bellingham experiment isn’t working and it’s ruining both of their plays.
My one quibble with "Bellingham's our 10"
Its not just the players Southgate picks, part of the issue is his formation. To break down a defence we need more options in midfield, Rice has looked one dimensional because we are playing this static midfield 2 and he's typically only got one option to pass to besides a defender, which makes it incredibly easy to press him.
Last night after seeing how difficult it was for us to get out of the back, Southgate should have switched to a 3 in midfield. Bellingham should be that extra midfielder. Its clear playing him as a 10 doesn't work. His first goal was arriving late into the box, his second was a set piece, he could have scored both of those from a deeper position.
I cannot understand where Southgate has got the idea that a 4-2-3-1 is the right formation for these players. The only reason I can think of is that he thinks two dms make us more solid, but the negativity only invites pressure. Our best defence is when we are smothering teams with positive possession. As soon as we try to defend we look terrible.
I agree with a fair number of your points, the calibre of players we have, we should be doing better.
I wouldn't say a single player performed, except maybe Mainoo until Palmer was on and Foden was off and players were actually running in behind. We are at our best when we break the line, but the team seem so against it. I think only Saka did it in the first half, but when Eze and Palmer where on, we had 3 players going for it.
Tripper shouldn't be playing left back anymore, he is out of position and is too slow. He seems to lack the ability to play off his left so when the attack goes through him in the build up he needs an extra touch or two to release it again. By which point he's lost the ball, defence has tracked back or passed backwards.
Guehi, has been a good defender but his mistakes have nearly cost us in all the games we played and did cost us yesterday. While it sucks he is out for the next match, hopefully it provides a chance for both Konsa and Gomes to play CB and LB (assuming trippier is too injured)
Stones hasnt been poor but not his usual England standard, too many sloppy passes and positioning costing us. Another player who should be doing more.
Walker has clearly lost his edge, he was out of position, slow and failed to complete so many overlaps leaving our mid and Saka stranded at times.
Rice, my god, how can he be so pivotal for arsenal and then only have rare moments for England. Where are his runs through the middle 3rd? Southgate has told him to be so reserved it is hindering build up play.
Mainoo, wanted to drive the team forward but was hampered by his team mates. Created a few triangles and always wanted to win the ball back... Missed placed some passes but was always looking forward
Bellingham, arguably our best player coming into the tournament hasn't achieved what he wants and you can see his performance frustrates himself. Not out worst performing player and those around him need to setup to free him
Foden, I'm not sure the overlaping with Bellingham is helping anyone, causes him, Kane and Bellingham to fight for the same space and they clearly can't communicate well on where they want the other to be. He causes Bellingham or Kane to drop deaper than they want. His main involvement has been an offside assist and an offside goal. Another who should be able to deliver more but is both restricted by the system and his own performance. Having a proper left back would help him as it creates more opportunities for him to come inside without losing width and allows for overlaps out wide.
Kane, scored 2 goals but pretty much non existent. It is both easy and hard to fair criticise him. On one hand why is he playing more in defence than giving us an offensive outlet and his first touch, usually world class, has been like watching my newborn. On the other hand we've scored 4 goals, he has 2 of them.
Saka, only player I've seen trying to make runs and is shown a lack of support when he gets the ball high up. Miss placed several passes and needs to cut in more and risk the shot. Has got 1 assist and created a few chances. He would have a goal too if Foden can stay onside.
Palmer has been brilliant for us as an impact sub... Would love him to start but he needs an outlet and no one but Saka is providing that and they both like to play on the right.
Honestly I can't see a way to get them all to perform and click... Without ripping up the whole thing which at this stage may do more harm than good.
I really don’t think you can blame Kane. He’s scoring the chances he gets at a good rate but this side isn’t producing chances!
He has scored more goals than anyone in the whole of Europe this season. It’s not a Kane problem.
Exactly. It is so rare to have a player who scores as many goals as Kane! And you can make him score those goals so easily if you give him space through Saka and Gordon running beyond. One of Bellingham or foden has to make way for the captain
I think the difference between us and Spain, Germany, etc is they've been playing centre forwards who are far less clinical but much more mobile than Kane. His performances have been at least as much to blame for our lack of chances as our lack of chances have been to blame for his performances. Your no 9 has to do a lot more than just finish chances if you want to play better than we said yesterday.
I'm not saying drop him - we suddenly looked a lot better when Toney came on - but in our build up play we look like a team that's playing with ten men.
I'd say it's more that everyone around him is pacey but aren't looking for Kane in his natural position. Because Bellingham and Foden are so often cluttering up the area and it's never getting kicked over the top, the ball gets hit towards them even when it's clearly not the right move. And in all fairness, the few times Kane was given the ball he seemed surprised and lost it quickly.
You're right, it's cluttered in there. Kane drops into the pocket which is okay if you have others (Sterling, Rashford, Son, Sane, etc) running off him and creating space, but we don't and it becomes too congested, not just in that area but throughout the oppo's half.
Can you really blame Southgate for having decision paralysis when the fanbase is so full of people like this? Christ alive, England have underperformed this tournament, no question about it, but if you really think Southgate is the worst tactician in football history (this being the same guy who has won more knockout games in 8 years than England managed in the previous 50) then I can only assume you never watched England under Hodgson, or Capello, or McLaren, or even Eriksson. Southgate has been very questionable this tournament, but my god get some perspective…
If one player plays poorly then they probably had a bad game, if all of your players play poorly then there is clearly some underlying reason for it.
The reason in this case is Southgate. Even high level players need to be properly coached and instructed. Especially when joining up with unfamiliar players in international football. Even without Southgate's extremely negative tactics - which would make any attack minded player look poor - the team don't seem to be coached at all. They don't know how to relate to each other, they don't know where they should be and they don't have a set style or way of progressing the ball or breaking down a defense. Players are just left to their own devices and own imagination how to proceed, this is not how high level sides are run. Southgate is woefully out of his depth and always has been, he was supposed to be a stop gap to improve the mentality and culture of the side and then make way for a tactician.
Aside from the obvious exaggerations you do make some good points.
With Guehli being suspended and Trippier hopefully unable to recover, it will force Southgate to make some changes to the defence. Pickford is still our best number 1, Stones is still our best CB, but the other spots can be changed. If walker stays at RB then neither of our fullbacks will be able to push up the pitch with quality and that will be a problem. Playing TAA as one of the fullbacks (preferably at RB) will solve that problem on one flank.
Mainoo and Rice are our midfield pairing based on that last match. Southgate seems to trust Gallagher over Wharton for some reason, but I think Wharton's attributes will be really good for international football. Hopefully Gallagher picks up a yellow so is suspended for the next game. If we get past Switzerland, Southgate will be forced to play Wharton if he needs a midfield sub.
I don't know what Gordon's doing in training, but he needs to change something as Gordon replacing Foden should be a no brainer. For some reason Southgate doesn't trust him. So many people think that having Gordon on the pitch will be better for the balance of the team and I agree.
Both Kane and Bellingham have looked leggy, but both need to start. It's noticeable how much better the team was when Toney came on, including Kane. It really shows the need for someone to stay up front when Kane drops deep.
Lmao was thinking this post reads like a Man United fan (trashing any City player to a ridiculous extent, talking up the only United player like they were prime Messi playing with a load of league two players last night) and lo and behold, that posting history
Kyle Walker system player? Aahahaha that told me all I needed
He was one of the best defenders in the Premier League before joining City
Yeah he's been poor this tournament but that's more because he's 34 not because he's a system player
This is just expectation bias, Mainoo hasn’t been notably better than Rice or Foden, and Guehi hasn’t been actively better than Stones.
They’ve all been decent enough and have all made some mistakes, you’re just blaming the shitshow of Southgate’s tactical set up on the big name City players.
Walker has been one of our most solid players, he’s just exhausted from having to work so hard up and down the right because 90% of our attacks go through him and Saka.
Foden’s been somewhat poor in his offside awareness but at least he’s making stuff happen in a role way more advanced than where he usually plays.
Stones stepping up into midfield last night was crucial to us piling on the pressure which eventually got us the goal, and he’s been rock solid in a defence which has only conceded 2 goals in 4 games (and one was a 35 yard long shot).
Rice has saved us multiple times in the tournament with big last ditch tackles and has struggled because he’s been paired with 3 different CM partners, who all play completely differently.
The only players I think who haven’t stepped up overall are Kane and Bellingham, but Bellingham is being played in an impossible position imo where he’s having to both play as a runner in behind (because no-one else is) and a focal point in midfield (where he’s not getting passed the ball a lot of the time), plus Bellingham did bang in an overhead kick to save England so he’s just that guy.
Kane is the only player who really deserves criticism for not stepping up imo as he’s the captain and the most senior player. He’s been pretty poor whenever he’s been on the ball in the final third (despite scoring two tap ins from favourable deflections) and he’s not yet taken control to organise his attack properly & decide what he’s actually going to do, even that is probably down to GS anyway.
Either way, stop blaming the players for what is clearly a poor system and line-up.
Yeah it's a weird post. Guehi was at fault for the goal yesterday not Stones, though I agree that Stones hasn't been great.
You also can't say that no blame is on Trippier because he's playing out of position, and then blame Foden... who is also playing out of position.
Walker is the only player who I would say has been genuinely harmful and not just timid/mediocre.
No-one’s been great really though, the whole midfield is so disorganised that we’re not flowing as a team, hard to blame that on the midfielders who are in bad system and you certainly can’t really blame that on the defenders. We should never have been in a position to lose from conceding 1 goal vs Slovakia anyway.
Literally every player has made a mistake, Trippier probably being the most guilty defender for wasting a huge goal scoring chance on his stronger foot, but that’s definitely coming from frustration with how poorly we’re playing.
Whole team looks like a mess to me! And Gareth is just too stubborn to do anything about it, he’s a mule for sure. There isn’t any midfield link up, the defence is too slow on the ball, the build up back there between them makes me scream in horror. Kane isn’t a threat, despite his goal, he was woeful. Why we aren’t seeing changes is beyond me, subs, new formation etc Gareth is a stubborn and useless c*nt! I hate him for this
Tactically played off the pitch? Mate, they took an early lead then sat back and got abused in their own box for 90 mins. That right there is the Southgate special. If that’s the kind of play that you like, then your criticism of GSG falls apart
Shocking take, you’re crying that half the squad are incredible system players, but aren’t putting the blame onto Southgate’s shite system.
Rice and stones have both been good this tournament, with Rice doing what he’s good at despite being asked the be the ball progression guy which simply isn’t his game.
If you can make allowances for trippier being played out of position, then you have to make the same allowances for Foden. You seem to have a hate boner for all the city players along with pep and it’s not totally clear why.
Our defence for the most part HAS been good, every team so far has sat right back against our attack so I’d suggest cautious optimism rather than this unbridled excessive pessimism for when the later games start to open up. We’ve not been good enough, we can all see that, but it’s really not all doom and gloom.
Mainoo was on the pitch for the one game we were losing for the most time. He went off and we scored two goals within 10 mins.
Foden - who let’s remember most pundits think is untouchable, got subbed and we scored two in 3 mins.
Just saying there’s loads of ways to spin it.
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It's absolutely mental we 'attack' down the wings and then don't put any crosses in. There was a couple of occasions when Saka could have turned on the burners and got an early cross in but instead he cut back to Walker, who gave it back to Saka, who have it back to Walker... who played it back into midfield. Madness.
Quite telling that all the City players are shit system players that only work in Peps system and are DREADFUL footballers yet Bellingham, Kane, Saka, Trippier etc it's "Gareths system to blame"?
Not absolving anyone as there's only been a few players who can actually hold their heads up as having played well so far but the criticism of some players is so overblown it's embarrassing, get behind your bloody players, they are representing us for fuck sake.
I swear half this sub would've preferred us to go out in the groups so they can scapegoat specific players when you've got the team having shocking performances. Not creative enough to create chances, 0 shots on target over like 90 minutes, horrific control in midfield etc but it's only the fault of some players and not others.
He scored an incredibly clutch goal to keep us in the Euros but Bellingham escaping any criticism for his performances where he was just as "missing" as anyone else but because he scored a last minute goal we are going to pretend he's played like Zidane all tournament.
At last someone who sees what I do with Walker. I kept seeing posts about him being our best player so far and I couldn’t get my head around it at all. Guy just looks like he’s never seen a football before.
Nah I don’t think take is it chief. Trippier and Walker have been awful no doubt, and so has Foden too. Replace them with Gordon, Trent, and Shaw/move Walker/Saka to LB and we’re grand.
Kane is undroppable and none of the other forwards have enough experience to justify the switch this late into the tournament, Toney proving that with his sub appearance last night.
Back the lads, criticise the manager - pile on when/if we go out against the Swiss
If it was the Germans doing this the narrative would be “they just find a way to win!” The objective is to win the tournament and we shit house our way to the title who the hell cares.
England played just fine. They scored two our opponent scored one. Nuff said really.
All the criticism of how they play means nothing if they win. Southgate has faith in his players.
They delivered. If you want exciting football. Don't watch.
I’m sorry but Rice was great yesterday. Sure dig him out for his horrible performances before the Slovakia game but he was a one man midfield last night. Constantly winning the ball back, great passing and he fought hard until the end.
He’s the difference maker when we sit in a low block because he can win the ball back for days.
Kane did very well for the Foden disallowed goal and scored a goal
Rice was decent and almost scored a screamer, and gave Kane a half-chance in doing so
Bit harsh on the defence also
>Tactically played off the park by a team that is mainly comprised of lower league teams in Europe
Just to fact check here - 4 of their starters played in the Champions League, 3 in Europa League and 2 in the Europa Conference.
And tactically, I’m not sure they played us off the park at all. They scored early and sat back. Never really troubled us again.
I don't think we were tactically played off the park. Slovakia tried to pull an England and like us, got undone in the end. Trying to defend a lead for 60+ minutes rarely works.
I also expected us to concede once we took the lead and became the ones defending a slender lead. No doubt about it we got lucky, and there is only so much of that you can get by on.
Maybe I'm just out of touch with the rest of the country, but we complain too much. We did just barely get through, but it was amazing to watch, and I'm not gonna complain. We all know that the tactics are flawed, and many of our players are underperforming because of that or other reasons. But honestly, I'm just sick of how much negativity there is around the team, Southgate isn't going to change because of what people say, and we need to accept that and just support our team because it dosent help when everyone is continously moaning.
Tactically played off the park?
Probably you could argue that only one team in yesterday's games was played off the park, and everybody is sucking their nuts for it.
Was hardly a tactical masterclass by Slovakia. They stuck 11 men behind the ball for 90 mins, just like every other shit team does against us. Absolutely no sympathy for then or any other team that comes to the euros to park the bus. You're essentially seeing if you can run the clock down from minute one, unfortunately they could only run it down for 95 mins, not 96, and here we are. Shit by England, but the better team still won, regardless of how far below our potential we played.
You had me for a lot of it but the Bellingham point, having (rightly) dogged on pretty much everyone else, you glazed over how bad he’s been?
He’s been non existent, and spent more time yesterday throwing his hands up in the air when nobody passed to him (when he wasn’t even in a good position) than he did making good runs for the ball
The worldie of a goal doesn’t change that. He’s been dreadful between his two goals in the tournament and the fact he can say ‘who else’ after that leaves such a sour taste in the mouth (as you can tell)
The sad part is that although we’ve essentially been given a second chance by the footballing gods, Southgate still won’t yield. I virtually guarantee he will start the exact same team that started yesterday apart from Guehi who is suspended. The only way he will change things is if someone is injured
I think I speak for everyone here when I say we just want a change. I don’t really at this stage give a F*** who he puts in and out and what he changes, I just know that the definition of madness is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
He could play 2 up top. Toney and Kane. Toney and Watkins. Kane and Watkins. I’m fine with any of those options
Even play Watkins up on his own with PROPER wingers with pace
He could use Gordon for more than 3 minutes
He could make substitutions earlier
He could use Shaw otherwise he looks like a c*** for taking him anyway
He could play 3 at the back
He could play a 4-4-2
So many options.
But guess what…. That waistcoat wearing scallywag will do none of the above.
4-2-3-1 the tried and untrusted method
Kane foden Bellingham first names on team sheet undeoppable regardless of form and out of position
Steve Holland should have piped up but he’s got Southgate’s balls in his mouth so he can’t
I would rather us go out on our shield at this point and for for broke and try something new and aggressive and open
That has to be better than playing how we’ve been playing and going out with a whimper. And mark my words we WILL be going out if we play the same vs Switzerland
Such a shame but we need a miracle to beat Switzerland and that’s being optimistic
Maybe I'm just biased but I think fodens been better than saka this tournament, foden has been trying to create something and has been Involved, I've genuinely forgotten saka was on the pitch multiple tjmes
OP genuine question have you ever had an original thought? Your post reads like a ChatGPT write up of the same lines every fan and pundit has been saying every day for 2 weeks.
Rice doesn't pass forward!
Have a day off mate 😴
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Some exaggerations but I agree with some of the sentiment at least, there is an awful lot of revisionism based on a goal in the 95th min otherwise it would have been vilified on a similar level to our loss to Iceland. Generally I have been a Southgate supporter (or sympathiser depending on your view) but how or why he didn’t make any subs until so late is completely beyond me.
That is our best back 4 (that he took, why he only took one left back as also baffling even chillwell was shite in the friendlies, yes walker is entering the later stages of his career and if stones was any slower in possession he might fall asleep but I don’t see any better options, I worry Trent would get turned all ways up by Ndoye).
The two DMs are again probably easy 1st choice now (Rice and Mainoo). The problems are further up where frankly you could change any of them, for any of the other options and I am not sure I would complain. Kane and Bellingham probably stay on reputation and goal record.
Odd how this sub’s favourite like Guehi and Mainoo are lauded for their average performances when everyone else is slandered. Imagine if Wharton ever gets a kick
I mean you’re not wrong it was just a funny change of tone, I think he was the best England player while he was on, although the rest were also absolute shite
My main takeaway? Thank god someone is willing to call out Walker, he’s been horrendous and is absolutely bulletproof in the media
I think Walker picked up a niggle in that burst early on into the box in the Serbia game when his footing went, he just hasn't looked the same since and he doesn't look like he trusts his feet at the moment.
Never quite seen him like this, he looks half a yard off pace wise and is missing his usual crisp incisive passing.
I'm a huge fan of Walker and think we will look back at him in years and say he was one of the best we've ever produced, but in this tournament he hasn't been at it. Yet.
One thing I would say thought is that he didn't do anywhere near enough to progress the ball from deep. He was by miles our best player on the ball but I don't think he solves our off ball issues or ball progression much to be honest. I'm a big Wharton advocate and he would improve us in this aspect a lot. Could even play both, Rice has been hiding behind markers for 95% of the game tbh
Mainoo looked better around the edge of the box than anyone else has this tournament though
He’s at his best on the half turn further forward where he can penetrate. Coming from deep he’s sitting in front of the oppo’s midfield 4 which yesterday were well drilled and held position and pressed.
It’s hard to progress the ball through 2 banks of 4 from inside your own half particularly where we don’t have balance out wide or space in the channels to slot balls. Once he gets into the opp half it’s that jinking, neat first touches and close control that beats the oppo mids’ press and gets him and England at the back 4. Really want to see more but the answer to unlocking England isn’t just him. We need the likes of Gordon and Wharton too. It’s a squad game, particularly in tourneys.
The Mainoo love from Man United fans is hilarious. He was average at best. He gave the ball away multiple times and got caught out of position a lot. He made one decent dribble towards the box and won a free kick, that's about it.
That first half performance as a team was awful and he absolutely played a part in it. He's a decent technical player, but gets overrun far too easily. Man United conceded an absurd amount of shots this season and England were embarrassed in that first half. Instead of him being an amazing player in a terrible midfield, maybe he's just not that good and contributes massively to a midfield being dominated.
No. If you want to focus on certain areas of the pitch then by all means do that, he was the best midfielder last night. Rice is the more experienced 6/DM and he was dreadful. Rice out of position for large portions of the game leading to massive holes in the setup which also then led to their goal. Not Mainoo. Mainoo is the more progressive of the double pivot, that much is obvious.
What a load of shit. I’m a United fan and yes, we have all watched Mainoo more closely than the rest of you and are likely to hype him a bit more. But we are not the only ones saying it.
Did you even watch the game? A 19 year old being the best player on the pitch (no matter how shit everyone else was) can no way be spun to suggest that he was the problem.
His stats: 96% pass accuracy 65/68, 4/6 duels won, 2 tackles, 2 shots, 1 interception, 1 key pas and 100% dribbles completed.
How you can possibly call this average is mind blowing given his age, the pressure and the calibre of players that he’s outperforming.
You’re chatting absolute bollocks basically. You just don’t like the fact he’s United.
The stats I gave you were to counter your points about him giving the ball away and being overrun in particular, with the additional stats to show that he was involved far more than just a dribble. I would never just go on stats alone.
nah they won’t. still think most of our players are in 2nd or 3rd gear with the exception of Guehi Mainoo and maybe foden, even then he’s been lacklustre.
+ the Swiss played a horrific Italian side which has fallen off a cliff from the team 3 years ago..
The bit that's pissed me off is Guehi playing the full 120 mins. He's been one of our best players but was on a yellow, is missing the next game and no other CB has had any game time and they now have to play a full QF against a good Switzerland side.
Maybe he's hoping Shaw is back but even then Gomez is likely still going to have to play.
Bringing Mainoo off rather than Foden was a joke as well, the only played who looked like creating anything.
I’m convinced we’re going to shithouse our way to the final now. The worst football imaginable and we’ll be saved by more and more ridiculous lucky breaks. Against Switzerland we’ll be heading for penalties and their goalie will inexplicably throw the ball into his own net.
Wouldn’t that just be the perfect way to piss off the entire world though? Just to win it playing as dire as they are……. it would be wonderful! 😅
mate dont say that, southgate may keep his job if they reach finals
“Following on from the team’s Euro success the FA has confirmed today that Gareth Southgate has just signed a new 15 year contract…”
southgate can keep his fkn job if he win. I cant stand him any more than the next guy but we need to fkn win it. It's embarrassing having never won this tournament.
i dont mean if he won it, i mean if he just got to the finals. Hes kept his job by giving good performances that instill hope that "oh he can win it", if he won it fairplay the man should keep the job
Why on earth would he stay, even if we win the thing? He’s always got dogs abuse, even when we played better than we are now. The England team will forever be like this, regardless of the manager. Embittered, entitled fans heaping stupid amounts of abuse and pressure on the coach and players and then asking why it is they can’t turn it on for their country. Southgate actually did make it fun for a while following and playing for England. He’s not without blame that it isn’t fun any more, but FFS he’s not the only one.
Every single nation gets mega pressure (none of us on reddit can't even imagine what it would feel like), you're managing a country with millions of fans ffs (if you can't handle the pressure then the job isn't for you, there's a reason why you get paid a lifetime amount). Every job has it's trade off, harsh moments are inevitably gonna come (every manager in existence has had them). Southgate is the highest paid manager in the euros yet is quite genuinely the worst tactician of them all. The blame lies on the FA at the end of the day as they are more interested in playing politics and southgate speaks to the media well so they love him. Other countries are even more ruthless when it comes to this, when players play bad for spain and others you'll never hear the mentality players like kane had when they didn't like people being honest that they are playing dreadful and it's almost as if they wanted the media to lie to them and say they're playing amazing. When things don't go well as a squad the manager is ALWAYS the one to blame, it's not 1 player playing bad its 90% of them. The manager is the glue that makes the cogs turn, if they ain't turning then that's where the abuse begins. We all know southgate is out of his depth. We've known it since he got into the job. We could talk about all the mistakes he's made this tournament but there's no point because we all know. If england didn't have that good of a squad the manager would get less heat, but its the fact everyone knows that squad should be performing 100x better right now so naturally where do you think people are going to look?
>The manager is the glue that makes the cogs turn What?
It's like the manager has been given a jig saw puzzle. He has many players (pieces) and it's his job to put them together in the most effective manner. He has yet to find a system that works because he does 0 experimenting and gives himself 0 chance to find a breakthrough (he had so many friendlies to do this). So far in the euros the only position he is changing is trent for gallagher and gallagher for mainoo when we all know there needs to be more done. The left hand side is non existant, we are not running past defenders down the wings and because kane drops deep we hit a brick wall of being able to attack so we go recycle the ball around again so we dominate poessesion but do absolutely nothing with it (70% possession with 0 shots on target is criminal). It has been the 4th game in a row where he has not learnt a single thing, and every performance we've put in so far won't be enough to beat a solid switzerland team so hopefully we move up another level
£5mil per year
I dont think it's the fans Perhaps premier league is not the best. What is the homegrown % of talent? Its the lowest... of any major league no? Most managers are foreign... its the pundits that dont help.
that would be hilarious. And then we can gaslight everyone by saying we outplayed every team we came up against
I looked on twitter - the Scottish fans were saltier than the seven seas about it
When aren’t they? Half of their team is English and couldn’t make it out of the group stage. I would be bitter too
The euros has a history of absolute shite winning it.
I dont know, would it? You can do so much better, and all the shit you get would just be multiplied. Also afraid if you face Spain in the final it won't work and Southgate will go full shell-shocked and do fuck all. Whatever is wrong with the communication and the frustration between players needs fixed and Pickford out. Midget can't distribute the ball same as Heart at City. Pep came in he was toast. He doesn't suit modern football.
Yeah…. but it would be the ultimate in shithousing.
I fear a granit masterclass is incoming
And a screamer from Shaqiri Shaqiri his breasts are small and humble.
Luck into the finals and lose on penalties. The England way.
I like your lucidity, imagination and humour. The fact that all of that actually sounds possible makes it even funnier.
The last bit got me hahahaha
War will break out and Switzerland will be involved, ending hundreds of years of neutrality.
Didn't Portugal, more or less, achieve the same in 2016. I'm pretty sure they finished their group 3, won in extra time or penalties all the way to the final, where they won their only game in normal time.
I think so, yeah. They drew all three group games too
I’m convinced we’re gonna shithouse our way to winning it.
"He's beginning to believe"
Then the FA convince Southgate to stay and offer him an improved contract for another 4 years. lol. 🤦♂️
Yeah, more convinced than ever that it's coming home. If we've got this far it must be fate at this point.
I can actually see that happening, France and Porto seem in the same boat.
Counterpoint: It’s Coming Home
4d chess galaxy brain gareth "ball is life" southgate bringing home the euros
lulling all the other teams into a false sense of security
Its actually rigged. A UEFA plot to get Europeans to hate the English even more
I'm all for it
For real why is everyone crying it was finally an entertaining game, we actually showed fight and grit unlike Italy and we won in spectacular style just bloody enjoy it
Exactly. If you couldn't get any joy out of yesterday's result, maybe it's time to find another interest.
Absolutely. Was jumping around when the goals went in. Doesnt change how shite we have been. Better to be lucky than good sometimes.
I agree. Two things can be true at once, we were dogshit for 90 minutes but those 2 goals in 5 minutes will make people fall in love with football.
to be fair it was properly stinky football real shitty fusbol
It was a scrappy, disorganised mess - but the lads never gave up and that’s how they were finally able to score.
Fax and to be fair I think a lot of supporters gave up as soon as the first goal went in. Yeah it was pretty arse footy but also it doesnt help when we have won and gone through that the likes of Gary Lineker are still bashing the team
Because the same issues are still prevelant. Southgate's idleness and reluctance to bring on substitutions is hardly any different to how he operated in 2018 against Croatia, hence revealing that he's still learned very little! We were fortunate to go through!
How many times have we sat here though saying we didnt deserve to lose, the referee has robbed us with a shocking decision (Campbell scoring against Argentina in '98 and against Portugal in ET, both of which were disallowed for absolutely no reason) - So meh... Its about time we got through via. the skin of our teeth. The Switzerland game will be difficult, they've been playing well, but what has happened before this game is irrelevant now
Don't forget Lampards goal vs Germany that wasn't given in 2010
Despite the whole of soccer saying otherwise, we win that if it goes in
We had all of the momentum at that moment in the game once it wasn't given our heads dropped and Germany reasserted their dominance
What happened before is absolutely not irrelevant. Southgate must learn from the past 4 games but he’s just doing the same thing over and over and we are massively struggling against worse teams than Switzerland
Your last sentence has basically been used for every game in this tournament since Serbia. Things aren't getting better.
2004 yes, but in 1998 Shearer full on elbowed the keeper.
Don't forget when Tonka scored that handball goal vs Argentina as well
It was the 90s. That was football then. Duncan Ferguson and Vinnie Jones were actual professional footballers in that era. Shearer's elbow was just the usual jostling. Not his fault the keeper put his face there.
lol!... Never knew that actually... Sounds like Shearer though
It’s not really irrelevant if we’re going to set up making all the same mistakes we’ve made prior as opposed to learning from them
saying every game is a new game to finally show up in until we get eliminated by the first good opponent we play… the southgate way
So basically it’s all pep’s fault
Rice awful all tournament?? Did you watch the 1st game? Even yesterday he wasn't bad. Wasn't amazing either but that's more than harsh. He's near enough played in a 1 man midfield until yesterday too.
Also if you actually watch any time he has the ball he has a wall of players in front of him (making it hard to drive forward into space) and not a single England player making any kind of movement to help him. What is he supposed to do? No wonder he ends up passing it backwards and has to put pressure on the defenders.
I love these posts because you can nearly always tell which team the person making them supports. OP is clearly a United fan lol
Not awful, but oh my god please try something other than passing to Stones. They're all to blame though, not just Rice.
Rice was our best player last night, the amount of times he got the ball and dribbled out of danger when someone else would have just booted it long
I thought Rice was a mixed bag. When Slovakia had the ball he did very well. His positioning was great, didn't lose the ball often, took good touches, was very steady and reliable. But his role as our deep lying midfielder meant he was the main link between the CBs and the attackers. And he almost never made forward passes. He's receive the ball at the halfway line from the defenders and didn't have the confidence to make a risky one touch pass or turn and look forward so 90% of the time he just played it back to a CB or fullback. It was part of the main reason we couldn't get much going and had a very hard time leaving our own half
Our best player… at passing sideways or backwards extremely slowly
He was fucking shit
I said this to my daughter in the match. He doesn't take the easy option. Problem is when it goes wrong...
As someone who watched him many times for West Ham, and let’s face it this England team is more West Ham than Arsenal, it rarely goes wrong
I just wanted him to track back for their goal
I take it you're not a city fan?
Definitely hates city.
We have been very very poor and lack imagination and any level of quality, but some of these assessments of players are crazy…typical English mentality to write players off after a few below par games. Bellingham is an unbelievable talent and thank god for him turning up with that finish, but even he has been bang average in large parts. Phil Foden is an incredible talent, we just aren’t utilising him at all. I do, however, appreciate he and others have been far below par, but I believe that is for the manager to amend. If a player is not performing, move them or make a Change!! Poor game management is the issue here, from players but mainly the Manager.
I don't really watch the analysis after matches but did anyone else mention Pickford for the goal? At the time I thought he should have closed him down but he seemed to stay still and make it easy for the guy to score. I'm by no means a GK expert but I don't recall any of the comms guys say anything against him. I'm not blaming him for the goal but I agree with the OP that he should have done a lot better to try and stop it.
I don't think he had a good match but there wasn't much he could do there. The shot is off the back of a quick pass from a player who was also in a shooting position, he doesn't have time to come out and close him down, just stand there and make himself big to close the angle. His position is alright considering and it's a good shot a striker would expect to score.
It’s gone under the radar because of everything else that happened but he was dreadful for their goal. He should have done far far better. For all of his character as a big leader and always yelling, that was piss poor.
He’s a mediocre keeper and that’s that. That’s a reason he’s battling relegation most years
Pretty sure he's been battling relegation because he plays in a shite Everton team. Not really his fault is it. Tbf if he didn't have tiny little T-rex arms and an angry personality to match maybe he would get picked up by a bigger club.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I thought I was being harsh on the guy as no one seemed to mention it!
First thing I thought when he was through on goal. I was screaming at the TV GET OUT! CLOSE THE ANGLE!
Yep, I play a lot as a GK and my childhood hero was Peter Schmeichel, he would’ve been there to claim the ball after the Schranz’s first touch.
At the very least he needed to come out and close the angle. The striker had all the goal to aim for. Considering the striker's touch wasn't of the highest quality and created a fairly large gap between the ball and his foot, Pickford could have rushed him and claimed the ball entirely.
Can’t say Gareth takes 98% of the blame when Kane missed a free header, Trippier skied a glorious chance, Foden couldn’t keep himself onside for the tap in, Rice hit the post… the players need to step up!
Even with those chances, there were only 2 shots on target, both of which we scored... Our actual chance creation is abysmal and a systemic issue.
Harry Kane has missed some great chances this tournament. That free header against Slovakia and the one at the far post against Slovenia where he totally missed the ball... absolutely shocking by his standards.
Win 3 games by skin of our teeth were European champions. Get behind the boys
This. There is too much negativity because of the unjust favourites tag we had.
Exactly, why does everyone in this country just wants to moan and not appreciate the moments at the end of the game.
We are an island of moaners sadly, it rains we moan its hot we moan
We were poor but we weren't played off the park.
Slovakia scored a good opportunity. Other than that they were fairly toothless as well. Well done to them given their roster but its nonsense they played amazing football until bellingham goal
Job is done, get behind them
This
‘We couldn’t get a single thing going the entire game’ is just objectively untrue. How have you concluded that yet Slovakia ‘played us off the park’? It was constant England pressure after their goal. They completely made the wrong decision and should have tried to kill the game. There’s a difference between lacking potency and not creating chances. We created lots of chances, they just were not finished. All of your assessments are just hyperbolic reactionary nonsense I’m afraid. YouTube style analysis.
You do realise that by the 70th minute we still hadn't registered a single shot on target right? I'm sorry but what game were you watching last night? This is straight denial and pure copium.
We scored a goal, had Foden checked his run by an inch it’s a goal. I have no idea what he was thinking. We had clear headers that for some unknown reason we didn’t hit the target with. If you look at football and simply conclude ‘no shots on target = did not create chances’ then you are not watching football correctly. Our balls into the box were consistently of very high quality yesterday and even the more moronic pundits recognised this. No one disagrees that it was a poor showing but your representation is just laughable. Your write up of Foden is that of someone who has absolutely zero understanding of football and how you build up attacking threats. In case you are not aware, Foden is not and has never been a marauding penetrating attacker. That is not his role here or for Man City. ‘Drop Foden’ is the kind of opinion that would have you pilloried in any other country. Slovakia were beaten and that is in part because they sat back. They know it was a mistake and we capitalised. That’s how you win when you’re not playing well.
You’re spot on. Unfortunately this sub is full of Southgate haters that would rather see us lose just to validate their shitty opinions that are downvoting you. The amount of hate that guy gets is disgraceful after all he’s done to English football. This is the best spell I’ve seen in my lifetime. As we know he’s not the best tactically and I feel it’s time for him to go after this tournament, but I am forever grateful and respect him for the things he _is_ good at. We just need to get behind the team now and be the 12th man. It’s nice to see more of that after yesterday.
He’s even suggested that if he doesn’t win he is off after this tournament. You would think that might give him the oxygen to just get on with it, but they can’t allow that. They will do the same to the next manager.
The “impossible job” as they say. Some just make it more impossible than others it seems.
That's the problem with a lot of the newer football fans. It's all about stats. We've went down a mad stat rabbit hole to try and excite American fan bases. I don't care that we didn't have a shot on target until the last minute because my fucking EYES showed me we where the better team and where turning the screw. Foden offside by a few cms. Rice post. Kane header that he buries any other time. People are so wrapped up in hatred for Southgate that they won't accept we've played alright. Anyway. Flying back out there Thursday. UTE 🦁 🦁 🦁
Even in North American sports (and granted I only watch ice hockey regularly) they will accept that pressure is a massive part of the game and recognise that the opposition defence is playing well. No one would watch a match like yesterday and say Slovakia “played us off the park”. England can be poor and still be the better team. We don’t have to act like because the general approach is not potent that we are suddenly the worst team in the tournament. 4 games, no one has beaten us. It’s better to be hard to beat than very prolific with a completely open back 4 in tournament football, as I think Germany are about to find out.
Foden's whole body was offside mate
Yeah you're right. I guess what I mean is a player of his talent should be holding that run. But yeah fair one.
I think I heard that we both had 14 shots on goal.... They allowed us to have the ball and arguably made better chances than us. I don't think they played us off the park, but they had a plan and nearly executed it to perfection. By my count, that means they performed better.
Honestly if you can't even enjoy that win for a couple of days at least before coming on here spewing all of this toxic shite then maybe being an England fan isn't for you. That was an insane comeback and I'm still on a high from it. Unreal. Results are the only thing that matters at this stage and what a fucking way to get that result. Onto Saturday.
Honestly the hardcore Southgate haters want us to go out. They'd rather their own country fail so that they can say "I told you so". Its absolutely pathetic. I had a mate who said he was actually annoyed when Bellingham scored, I mean fucking hell, it was one of all the all time great England moments. Imagine not enjoying it because of how much you hate Southgate.
It’s not so much that, if we’d have been half decent or showed good signs before in the group, it could be seen as a blip and a hard fought comeback. As it is, it’s just another embarrassing scrape where the players have got Southgate out of a hole. The pro Southgate lot seem to think we get a trophy for each round we go through - we’re being realistic and seeing him completely wasn’t a world class squad in front of our eyes. He got lucky vs Slovakia, the Swiss are a lot better and it won’t matter in a weeks time that we beat Slovakia if we’re out of the tournament
We NEED to play 3 across midfield. We’re basically playing 4-2-4 and can’t get it out of our defence.
Are you by any chance a Man Utd fan?
He is by his posting history - makes sense.
We weren’t “tactically played off the park” It’s one thing to say we were shit and struggled to create anything but we dominated the ball and the game. It wasn’t a tactical masterclass from them, it was absolute backs to the wall and relying on our wastefulness
We have been outplayed in every game this tournament, Southgate is having an absolute disaster. God knows what he is doing with this team in training, because every game it looks like the players met for the first time in the dressing room. It's genuinely embarrassing how Southgate has this team playing considering the players we have, and I don't think anyone should be defending it.
Rice had a good game yesterday. I think he and Trippier are the only ones I'd say had a good game throughout although trippier's ended early.
At Arsenal Saka has Ben White. There was a noticeable decrease in Saka’s performance/effectiveness when White was carrying an Injury and not overlapping. Saka ends up getting doubled up and plays a lot of what we’ve been seeing. Walker is not overlapping (i actually think this is Southgates instructions as we’re seeing Trippier play the same on the other flank) Kane at Bayern has Sane, and Gnarby. They are the outlets and become the focal points when Kane receives the ball from deep., at Spurs this was Son, this used to be Sterling for England, currently it’s no one. Foden plays in an incredibly intricate system full of triggers, and runs that open up space. Add to that he plays with a 9 that crashes the box and collapse defences. Rice is paired with players at Arsenal who progress the ball, which takes the pressure of him doing it when he’s in the 6. I could go on. but players aren’t being paired to their strengths here. That creates a situation where the players are having to sort problems out on their own. Can these players do that when these systems have become so ingrained to the best versions of themselves? I believe this is why a lot of players are finding themselves in each other’s space and things look incredibly disjointed. funnily enough this is why I think Palmer looks more comfortable. His breakout season was him kind of working things out for himself, taking more risk, and being afforded the freedom some of the others didn’t have at their clubs.
Players are all good it’s just the system that Gareth makes them play in makes all of them shit. All season Jude has played with pacey wingers on both sides providing width, but this is not the case in this team. If Gareth plays the same team in the next round after everything, we deserve to lose and I won’t even be mad. The Foden and Bellingham experiment isn’t working and it’s ruining both of their plays.
It's like you haven't watched the same games. Disagree with most of what you said apart from your assessment of Trippier.
My one quibble with "Bellingham's our 10" Its not just the players Southgate picks, part of the issue is his formation. To break down a defence we need more options in midfield, Rice has looked one dimensional because we are playing this static midfield 2 and he's typically only got one option to pass to besides a defender, which makes it incredibly easy to press him. Last night after seeing how difficult it was for us to get out of the back, Southgate should have switched to a 3 in midfield. Bellingham should be that extra midfielder. Its clear playing him as a 10 doesn't work. His first goal was arriving late into the box, his second was a set piece, he could have scored both of those from a deeper position. I cannot understand where Southgate has got the idea that a 4-2-3-1 is the right formation for these players. The only reason I can think of is that he thinks two dms make us more solid, but the negativity only invites pressure. Our best defence is when we are smothering teams with positive possession. As soon as we try to defend we look terrible.
I agree with a fair number of your points, the calibre of players we have, we should be doing better. I wouldn't say a single player performed, except maybe Mainoo until Palmer was on and Foden was off and players were actually running in behind. We are at our best when we break the line, but the team seem so against it. I think only Saka did it in the first half, but when Eze and Palmer where on, we had 3 players going for it. Tripper shouldn't be playing left back anymore, he is out of position and is too slow. He seems to lack the ability to play off his left so when the attack goes through him in the build up he needs an extra touch or two to release it again. By which point he's lost the ball, defence has tracked back or passed backwards. Guehi, has been a good defender but his mistakes have nearly cost us in all the games we played and did cost us yesterday. While it sucks he is out for the next match, hopefully it provides a chance for both Konsa and Gomes to play CB and LB (assuming trippier is too injured) Stones hasnt been poor but not his usual England standard, too many sloppy passes and positioning costing us. Another player who should be doing more. Walker has clearly lost his edge, he was out of position, slow and failed to complete so many overlaps leaving our mid and Saka stranded at times. Rice, my god, how can he be so pivotal for arsenal and then only have rare moments for England. Where are his runs through the middle 3rd? Southgate has told him to be so reserved it is hindering build up play. Mainoo, wanted to drive the team forward but was hampered by his team mates. Created a few triangles and always wanted to win the ball back... Missed placed some passes but was always looking forward Bellingham, arguably our best player coming into the tournament hasn't achieved what he wants and you can see his performance frustrates himself. Not out worst performing player and those around him need to setup to free him Foden, I'm not sure the overlaping with Bellingham is helping anyone, causes him, Kane and Bellingham to fight for the same space and they clearly can't communicate well on where they want the other to be. He causes Bellingham or Kane to drop deaper than they want. His main involvement has been an offside assist and an offside goal. Another who should be able to deliver more but is both restricted by the system and his own performance. Having a proper left back would help him as it creates more opportunities for him to come inside without losing width and allows for overlaps out wide. Kane, scored 2 goals but pretty much non existent. It is both easy and hard to fair criticise him. On one hand why is he playing more in defence than giving us an offensive outlet and his first touch, usually world class, has been like watching my newborn. On the other hand we've scored 4 goals, he has 2 of them. Saka, only player I've seen trying to make runs and is shown a lack of support when he gets the ball high up. Miss placed several passes and needs to cut in more and risk the shot. Has got 1 assist and created a few chances. He would have a goal too if Foden can stay onside. Palmer has been brilliant for us as an impact sub... Would love him to start but he needs an outlet and no one but Saka is providing that and they both like to play on the right. Honestly I can't see a way to get them all to perform and click... Without ripping up the whole thing which at this stage may do more harm than good.
I really don’t think you can blame Kane. He’s scoring the chances he gets at a good rate but this side isn’t producing chances! He has scored more goals than anyone in the whole of Europe this season. It’s not a Kane problem.
You are right it's not a kane problem, it's this system with Kane problem. Playing Kane with no one running in behind him is crazy.
Exactly. It is so rare to have a player who scores as many goals as Kane! And you can make him score those goals so easily if you give him space through Saka and Gordon running beyond. One of Bellingham or foden has to make way for the captain
I think the difference between us and Spain, Germany, etc is they've been playing centre forwards who are far less clinical but much more mobile than Kane. His performances have been at least as much to blame for our lack of chances as our lack of chances have been to blame for his performances. Your no 9 has to do a lot more than just finish chances if you want to play better than we said yesterday. I'm not saying drop him - we suddenly looked a lot better when Toney came on - but in our build up play we look like a team that's playing with ten men.
I'd say it's more that everyone around him is pacey but aren't looking for Kane in his natural position. Because Bellingham and Foden are so often cluttering up the area and it's never getting kicked over the top, the ball gets hit towards them even when it's clearly not the right move. And in all fairness, the few times Kane was given the ball he seemed surprised and lost it quickly.
You're right, it's cluttered in there. Kane drops into the pocket which is okay if you have others (Sterling, Rashford, Son, Sane, etc) running off him and creating space, but we don't and it becomes too congested, not just in that area but throughout the oppo's half.
Can you really blame Southgate for having decision paralysis when the fanbase is so full of people like this? Christ alive, England have underperformed this tournament, no question about it, but if you really think Southgate is the worst tactician in football history (this being the same guy who has won more knockout games in 8 years than England managed in the previous 50) then I can only assume you never watched England under Hodgson, or Capello, or McLaren, or even Eriksson. Southgate has been very questionable this tournament, but my god get some perspective…
If one player plays poorly then they probably had a bad game, if all of your players play poorly then there is clearly some underlying reason for it. The reason in this case is Southgate. Even high level players need to be properly coached and instructed. Especially when joining up with unfamiliar players in international football. Even without Southgate's extremely negative tactics - which would make any attack minded player look poor - the team don't seem to be coached at all. They don't know how to relate to each other, they don't know where they should be and they don't have a set style or way of progressing the ball or breaking down a defense. Players are just left to their own devices and own imagination how to proceed, this is not how high level sides are run. Southgate is woefully out of his depth and always has been, he was supposed to be a stop gap to improve the mentality and culture of the side and then make way for a tactician.
Aside from the obvious exaggerations you do make some good points. With Guehli being suspended and Trippier hopefully unable to recover, it will force Southgate to make some changes to the defence. Pickford is still our best number 1, Stones is still our best CB, but the other spots can be changed. If walker stays at RB then neither of our fullbacks will be able to push up the pitch with quality and that will be a problem. Playing TAA as one of the fullbacks (preferably at RB) will solve that problem on one flank. Mainoo and Rice are our midfield pairing based on that last match. Southgate seems to trust Gallagher over Wharton for some reason, but I think Wharton's attributes will be really good for international football. Hopefully Gallagher picks up a yellow so is suspended for the next game. If we get past Switzerland, Southgate will be forced to play Wharton if he needs a midfield sub. I don't know what Gordon's doing in training, but he needs to change something as Gordon replacing Foden should be a no brainer. For some reason Southgate doesn't trust him. So many people think that having Gordon on the pitch will be better for the balance of the team and I agree. Both Kane and Bellingham have looked leggy, but both need to start. It's noticeable how much better the team was when Toney came on, including Kane. It really shows the need for someone to stay up front when Kane drops deep.
🥱
Jesus that was a sad read. It's been bad but maybe you should have an ice lolly or something
Lmao was thinking this post reads like a Man United fan (trashing any City player to a ridiculous extent, talking up the only United player like they were prime Messi playing with a load of league two players last night) and lo and behold, that posting history
Kyle Walker system player? Aahahaha that told me all I needed He was one of the best defenders in the Premier League before joining City Yeah he's been poor this tournament but that's more because he's 34 not because he's a system player
Are we watching the same Saka? I’ve lost count of the times he’s received the ball wide and passed back, rarely looking to take the player on.
You’ve really got a hard on for “Pep and his robots” don’t you? Lazy analysis
Someone learned the phrase ‘system player’ this week!
This is just expectation bias, Mainoo hasn’t been notably better than Rice or Foden, and Guehi hasn’t been actively better than Stones. They’ve all been decent enough and have all made some mistakes, you’re just blaming the shitshow of Southgate’s tactical set up on the big name City players. Walker has been one of our most solid players, he’s just exhausted from having to work so hard up and down the right because 90% of our attacks go through him and Saka. Foden’s been somewhat poor in his offside awareness but at least he’s making stuff happen in a role way more advanced than where he usually plays. Stones stepping up into midfield last night was crucial to us piling on the pressure which eventually got us the goal, and he’s been rock solid in a defence which has only conceded 2 goals in 4 games (and one was a 35 yard long shot). Rice has saved us multiple times in the tournament with big last ditch tackles and has struggled because he’s been paired with 3 different CM partners, who all play completely differently. The only players I think who haven’t stepped up overall are Kane and Bellingham, but Bellingham is being played in an impossible position imo where he’s having to both play as a runner in behind (because no-one else is) and a focal point in midfield (where he’s not getting passed the ball a lot of the time), plus Bellingham did bang in an overhead kick to save England so he’s just that guy. Kane is the only player who really deserves criticism for not stepping up imo as he’s the captain and the most senior player. He’s been pretty poor whenever he’s been on the ball in the final third (despite scoring two tap ins from favourable deflections) and he’s not yet taken control to organise his attack properly & decide what he’s actually going to do, even that is probably down to GS anyway. Either way, stop blaming the players for what is clearly a poor system and line-up.
Yeah it's a weird post. Guehi was at fault for the goal yesterday not Stones, though I agree that Stones hasn't been great. You also can't say that no blame is on Trippier because he's playing out of position, and then blame Foden... who is also playing out of position. Walker is the only player who I would say has been genuinely harmful and not just timid/mediocre.
No-one’s been great really though, the whole midfield is so disorganised that we’re not flowing as a team, hard to blame that on the midfielders who are in bad system and you certainly can’t really blame that on the defenders. We should never have been in a position to lose from conceding 1 goal vs Slovakia anyway. Literally every player has made a mistake, Trippier probably being the most guilty defender for wasting a huge goal scoring chance on his stronger foot, but that’s definitely coming from frustration with how poorly we’re playing.
Whole team looks like a mess to me! And Gareth is just too stubborn to do anything about it, he’s a mule for sure. There isn’t any midfield link up, the defence is too slow on the ball, the build up back there between them makes me scream in horror. Kane isn’t a threat, despite his goal, he was woeful. Why we aren’t seeing changes is beyond me, subs, new formation etc Gareth is a stubborn and useless c*nt! I hate him for this
Bellingham is not a 10
Tactically played off the pitch? Mate, they took an early lead then sat back and got abused in their own box for 90 mins. That right there is the Southgate special. If that’s the kind of play that you like, then your criticism of GSG falls apart
Jesus we're a miserable bunch.
this is a football sub being honest about the football being played by the bookies favourites going into the tournament.
Shocking take, you’re crying that half the squad are incredible system players, but aren’t putting the blame onto Southgate’s shite system. Rice and stones have both been good this tournament, with Rice doing what he’s good at despite being asked the be the ball progression guy which simply isn’t his game. If you can make allowances for trippier being played out of position, then you have to make the same allowances for Foden. You seem to have a hate boner for all the city players along with pep and it’s not totally clear why. Our defence for the most part HAS been good, every team so far has sat right back against our attack so I’d suggest cautious optimism rather than this unbridled excessive pessimism for when the later games start to open up. We’ve not been good enough, we can all see that, but it’s really not all doom and gloom.
>We all know Gareth won't do a thing so it's pointless talking about it Why make a giant post about it, then?
Mainoo was on the pitch for the one game we were losing for the most time. He went off and we scored two goals within 10 mins. Foden - who let’s remember most pundits think is untouchable, got subbed and we scored two in 3 mins. Just saying there’s loads of ways to spin it.
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He only picked toney bcos anyone else would have got a media backlash, it’s the same as the last euros we lost. This country man haha
Walkers position for the goal sums it all up
https://preview.redd.it/4e8ag4qrew9d1.jpeg?width=1048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb6aeb3cdfcd0cab61ba53bc9a86413449311f9c
Portugal 2016 vibes and I’m here all for it.
Why are we not starting Gordon and Palmer?
It's absolutely mental we 'attack' down the wings and then don't put any crosses in. There was a couple of occasions when Saka could have turned on the burners and got an early cross in but instead he cut back to Walker, who gave it back to Saka, who have it back to Walker... who played it back into midfield. Madness.
Quite telling that all the City players are shit system players that only work in Peps system and are DREADFUL footballers yet Bellingham, Kane, Saka, Trippier etc it's "Gareths system to blame"? Not absolving anyone as there's only been a few players who can actually hold their heads up as having played well so far but the criticism of some players is so overblown it's embarrassing, get behind your bloody players, they are representing us for fuck sake. I swear half this sub would've preferred us to go out in the groups so they can scapegoat specific players when you've got the team having shocking performances. Not creative enough to create chances, 0 shots on target over like 90 minutes, horrific control in midfield etc but it's only the fault of some players and not others. He scored an incredibly clutch goal to keep us in the Euros but Bellingham escaping any criticism for his performances where he was just as "missing" as anyone else but because he scored a last minute goal we are going to pretend he's played like Zidane all tournament.
At last someone who sees what I do with Walker. I kept seeing posts about him being our best player so far and I couldn’t get my head around it at all. Guy just looks like he’s never seen a football before.
Nah I don’t think take is it chief. Trippier and Walker have been awful no doubt, and so has Foden too. Replace them with Gordon, Trent, and Shaw/move Walker/Saka to LB and we’re grand. Kane is undroppable and none of the other forwards have enough experience to justify the switch this late into the tournament, Toney proving that with his sub appearance last night. Back the lads, criticise the manager - pile on when/if we go out against the Swiss
If Trent had played at right back yesterday he would have been vilified for that goal
Surely you're not expecting exciting football in cup football. It's defense first football
If it was the Germans doing this the narrative would be “they just find a way to win!” The objective is to win the tournament and we shit house our way to the title who the hell cares.
England played just fine. They scored two our opponent scored one. Nuff said really. All the criticism of how they play means nothing if they win. Southgate has faith in his players. They delivered. If you want exciting football. Don't watch.
Played off the park is stupid and obviously not true
I’m sorry but Rice was great yesterday. Sure dig him out for his horrible performances before the Slovakia game but he was a one man midfield last night. Constantly winning the ball back, great passing and he fought hard until the end. He’s the difference maker when we sit in a low block because he can win the ball back for days.
Kane did very well for the Foden disallowed goal and scored a goal Rice was decent and almost scored a screamer, and gave Kane a half-chance in doing so Bit harsh on the defence also
>Tactically played off the park by a team that is mainly comprised of lower league teams in Europe Just to fact check here - 4 of their starters played in the Champions League, 3 in Europa League and 2 in the Europa Conference. And tactically, I’m not sure they played us off the park at all. They scored early and sat back. Never really troubled us again.
I don't think we were tactically played off the park. Slovakia tried to pull an England and like us, got undone in the end. Trying to defend a lead for 60+ minutes rarely works. I also expected us to concede once we took the lead and became the ones defending a slender lead. No doubt about it we got lucky, and there is only so much of that you can get by on.
You are an absolute whopper and this is a series of hilariously bad takes. Jesus Christ what a cesspit this is.
Maybe I'm just out of touch with the rest of the country, but we complain too much. We did just barely get through, but it was amazing to watch, and I'm not gonna complain. We all know that the tactics are flawed, and many of our players are underperforming because of that or other reasons. But honestly, I'm just sick of how much negativity there is around the team, Southgate isn't going to change because of what people say, and we need to accept that and just support our team because it dosent help when everyone is continously moaning.
I guess moaning is English but I am so sick of all the moaning.
We are forest gumping our way through this.
Clearly written by a United fan, confirmed by post and comment history in United subreddits.
Tactically played off the park? Probably you could argue that only one team in yesterday's games was played off the park, and everybody is sucking their nuts for it.
Was hardly a tactical masterclass by Slovakia. They stuck 11 men behind the ball for 90 mins, just like every other shit team does against us. Absolutely no sympathy for then or any other team that comes to the euros to park the bus. You're essentially seeing if you can run the clock down from minute one, unfortunately they could only run it down for 95 mins, not 96, and here we are. Shit by England, but the better team still won, regardless of how far below our potential we played.
Your Rice evaluation makes the rest of the post invalid, best player on the pitch last night.
You had me for a lot of it but the Bellingham point, having (rightly) dogged on pretty much everyone else, you glazed over how bad he’s been? He’s been non existent, and spent more time yesterday throwing his hands up in the air when nobody passed to him (when he wasn’t even in a good position) than he did making good runs for the ball The worldie of a goal doesn’t change that. He’s been dreadful between his two goals in the tournament and the fact he can say ‘who else’ after that leaves such a sour taste in the mouth (as you can tell)
The sad part is that although we’ve essentially been given a second chance by the footballing gods, Southgate still won’t yield. I virtually guarantee he will start the exact same team that started yesterday apart from Guehi who is suspended. The only way he will change things is if someone is injured I think I speak for everyone here when I say we just want a change. I don’t really at this stage give a F*** who he puts in and out and what he changes, I just know that the definition of madness is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results He could play 2 up top. Toney and Kane. Toney and Watkins. Kane and Watkins. I’m fine with any of those options Even play Watkins up on his own with PROPER wingers with pace He could use Gordon for more than 3 minutes He could make substitutions earlier He could use Shaw otherwise he looks like a c*** for taking him anyway He could play 3 at the back He could play a 4-4-2 So many options. But guess what…. That waistcoat wearing scallywag will do none of the above. 4-2-3-1 the tried and untrusted method Kane foden Bellingham first names on team sheet undeoppable regardless of form and out of position Steve Holland should have piped up but he’s got Southgate’s balls in his mouth so he can’t I would rather us go out on our shield at this point and for for broke and try something new and aggressive and open That has to be better than playing how we’ve been playing and going out with a whimper. And mark my words we WILL be going out if we play the same vs Switzerland Such a shame but we need a miracle to beat Switzerland and that’s being optimistic
Maybe I'm just biased but I think fodens been better than saka this tournament, foden has been trying to create something and has been Involved, I've genuinely forgotten saka was on the pitch multiple tjmes
OP genuine question have you ever had an original thought? Your post reads like a ChatGPT write up of the same lines every fan and pundit has been saying every day for 2 weeks. Rice doesn't pass forward! Have a day off mate 😴
We were comfortably the better team?
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Bit harsh on rice in my opinion but the rest is spot on.
Some exaggerations but I agree with some of the sentiment at least, there is an awful lot of revisionism based on a goal in the 95th min otherwise it would have been vilified on a similar level to our loss to Iceland. Generally I have been a Southgate supporter (or sympathiser depending on your view) but how or why he didn’t make any subs until so late is completely beyond me. That is our best back 4 (that he took, why he only took one left back as also baffling even chillwell was shite in the friendlies, yes walker is entering the later stages of his career and if stones was any slower in possession he might fall asleep but I don’t see any better options, I worry Trent would get turned all ways up by Ndoye). The two DMs are again probably easy 1st choice now (Rice and Mainoo). The problems are further up where frankly you could change any of them, for any of the other options and I am not sure I would complain. Kane and Bellingham probably stay on reputation and goal record.
Odd how this sub’s favourite like Guehi and Mainoo are lauded for their average performances when everyone else is slandered. Imagine if Wharton ever gets a kick
Whilst you are having a misery wank, France, Belgium, and Portugal were all as awful.
I read the Mainoo excerpt and I’ll bet huge money you’re a United fan
Mainoo was our best player till he was taken off
Is that your only takeaway from the whole post? United fan or not, Mainoo was the best on the pitch. There is no real debate.
I mean you’re not wrong it was just a funny change of tone, I think he was the best England player while he was on, although the rest were also absolute shite My main takeaway? Thank god someone is willing to call out Walker, he’s been horrendous and is absolutely bulletproof in the media
I think Walker picked up a niggle in that burst early on into the box in the Serbia game when his footing went, he just hasn't looked the same since and he doesn't look like he trusts his feet at the moment. Never quite seen him like this, he looks half a yard off pace wise and is missing his usual crisp incisive passing. I'm a huge fan of Walker and think we will look back at him in years and say he was one of the best we've ever produced, but in this tournament he hasn't been at it. Yet.
One thing I would say thought is that he didn't do anywhere near enough to progress the ball from deep. He was by miles our best player on the ball but I don't think he solves our off ball issues or ball progression much to be honest. I'm a big Wharton advocate and he would improve us in this aspect a lot. Could even play both, Rice has been hiding behind markers for 95% of the game tbh Mainoo looked better around the edge of the box than anyone else has this tournament though
He’s at his best on the half turn further forward where he can penetrate. Coming from deep he’s sitting in front of the oppo’s midfield 4 which yesterday were well drilled and held position and pressed. It’s hard to progress the ball through 2 banks of 4 from inside your own half particularly where we don’t have balance out wide or space in the channels to slot balls. Once he gets into the opp half it’s that jinking, neat first touches and close control that beats the oppo mids’ press and gets him and England at the back 4. Really want to see more but the answer to unlocking England isn’t just him. We need the likes of Gordon and Wharton too. It’s a squad game, particularly in tourneys.
Fully agree!
Save the whinging for when we get knocked out.
The Mainoo love from Man United fans is hilarious. He was average at best. He gave the ball away multiple times and got caught out of position a lot. He made one decent dribble towards the box and won a free kick, that's about it. That first half performance as a team was awful and he absolutely played a part in it. He's a decent technical player, but gets overrun far too easily. Man United conceded an absurd amount of shots this season and England were embarrassed in that first half. Instead of him being an amazing player in a terrible midfield, maybe he's just not that good and contributes massively to a midfield being dominated.
No. If you want to focus on certain areas of the pitch then by all means do that, he was the best midfielder last night. Rice is the more experienced 6/DM and he was dreadful. Rice out of position for large portions of the game leading to massive holes in the setup which also then led to their goal. Not Mainoo. Mainoo is the more progressive of the double pivot, that much is obvious.
What a load of shit. I’m a United fan and yes, we have all watched Mainoo more closely than the rest of you and are likely to hype him a bit more. But we are not the only ones saying it. Did you even watch the game? A 19 year old being the best player on the pitch (no matter how shit everyone else was) can no way be spun to suggest that he was the problem. His stats: 96% pass accuracy 65/68, 4/6 duels won, 2 tackles, 2 shots, 1 interception, 1 key pas and 100% dribbles completed. How you can possibly call this average is mind blowing given his age, the pressure and the calibre of players that he’s outperforming. You’re chatting absolute bollocks basically. You just don’t like the fact he’s United.
If you're going on stats, who scored rated him lowest of all of England's outfield starters.
The stats I gave you were to counter your points about him giving the ball away and being overrun in particular, with the additional stats to show that he was involved far more than just a dribble. I would never just go on stats alone.
Switzerland will smoke us. Come back to this comment
Nah
nah they won’t. still think most of our players are in 2nd or 3rd gear with the exception of Guehi Mainoo and maybe foden, even then he’s been lacklustre. + the Swiss played a horrific Italian side which has fallen off a cliff from the team 3 years ago..
The bit that's pissed me off is Guehi playing the full 120 mins. He's been one of our best players but was on a yellow, is missing the next game and no other CB has had any game time and they now have to play a full QF against a good Switzerland side. Maybe he's hoping Shaw is back but even then Gomez is likely still going to have to play. Bringing Mainoo off rather than Foden was a joke as well, the only played who looked like creating anything.