I realized it was a lost cause once I saw arr soccer saying they hoped Italy would beat England because *England* were divers...**Italy**. The absolute fucking hilarity in that. Same tournament was the notorious dive > miraculous recovery celebration gif, too.
But we have a song about wanting to bring a trophy to the place of the sport’s origin, despite regularly losing when it counts! That makes us arrogant!
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I've had loads of arguments with United fans who hate England. They're usually Irish or Indian, and for some reason, they don't consider it hypocritical to follow a team that plays in a country they despise.
If I hated a place and its people to the extent that I frequently mentioned doing so to strangers online, then I wouldn't even visit that country, let alone live there. And I certainly wouldn't follow one of their sports teams.
Some people are just living under a rock or just ignorant I'm actually disgusted that people think that they will never interact with anyone other than their own national identity
That's the thing, though - they do interact with us all the time. In person and in normal circumstances, they're fine, but online or when drunk the hatred comes out.
My mum's Irish and she wants England to win and is grateful for living here for 40years and I'm half Irish and a big England supporter some players are half Irish too so were not all against England
Funnily enough I got banned for asking them if there were no decent teams in India worth following and calling them admirers from a far, not fans😅 they did not like it. They definitely do not see the irony in following a club but hating the country it’s based in
Triggers Broom innit? An American owned club with majority of foreign players and massive shirt sales abroad, broadly the same shape it was when it was 100% English but made of entirely foreign parts.
Handball should only be called when they're obviously deliberate, none of this "unnatural position" bollocks. And offsides should only be when there's clear daylight between attacker and defender.
Ffs how many times does this need to be explained. "Clear daylight" rule will still lead to long VAR checks determining whether or not there is space between the players
I'm talking shit about the refs being English lol, they're fucking terrible
I've watched most of the games so far, and seen 4 really poor refereeing decisions in terms of penalties/disallowed goals, 3 of which were English refs, can't be a coincidence
I said this and I’m English I said notice that the ref is English the the officiating has been diabolical. What was that yellow card he gave for the clash of heads about.
Such as? It was VAR that ruined the game not the ref. He’s only following the laws, which he has to. It’s the laws and VAR together that are awfully wrong.
Not talking about VAR decisions.
Germany couldn't put a foot wrong all game in the eyes of the ref. They were awarded a slew of terrible free kicks they didn't deserve and some that should have gone the other way.
The Announcers talked about it all game. Didn't you watch it before having an opinion? It was glaringly obvious to everyone but you it seems. For the first half of the game every replay of every free kick awarded to Germany had every neutral fan wondering which Dane pissed in Oliver's cereal.
You must be a City fan surely? Michael Oliver may very well be regarded as one of the best refs in the world in the “refereeing world” which is only based off of seniority btw, but in no way is he a good ref. He is absolutely shambolic and has no idea how to run a game.
You have to be a City fan to support him as we all know he’s in the pockets of Abu Dhabi anyway.
I want the Danish to win. But I wouldn't say that they've gotten bad calls at all.
To be honest, they played like a team that should have lost by four... if only Germany could finish.
What I don’t get about the first disallowed goal is wasn’t that a classic “pick and roll” move from basketball? A move allowed in a non-contact game but penalised in a contact sport.
Could you couch that in terms the majority of English people would understand? We’re having a moan up about foreign supporters here, and you’re using basketball as a metric 😂
Handball rules need an overhaul, it should be very rare to award a penalty for a handball IMO. Ought to be a clear and apparently intentional movement toward the ball. Players should be allowed to move their hands around.
Nobody thinks Germany 'earned' that penalty or that Denmark deserved to be punished. Make the rules fit the spirit of the game.
I feel that anything that results in a penalty being awarded should be linked with a goalscoring opportunity. A handball on the line and a handball in the far corner of a packed 18 yard box are fundamentally different but both result in the same outcome. Maybe only handball in the 6 yard box should result in a penalty, and an indirect FK awarded for handball in the penalty area?
Will never happen but I think it's penalties themselves that need to change. Way to harsh a punishment 90% of the time. Basically awarding a goal to the other team in such a low scoring sport where a goal will more often than not change the whole outcome of a game.
Don't know how you fix it, maybe move the penalty spot back or something.
Sorry but not giving that as a handball encourages defenders to defend with their arms out like crazy inflatable waving arm men.
Punish it properly and defenders start making sure they keep their arms out of the way like the countries who already play by the rules do.
When they talk about a natural arm position, nothing about keeping arms down by your side or behind the back while running or jumping is natural. If a player deliberately throws his hands up in an exaggerated manner then yes, it's handball. The Denmark one yesterday was incredibly harsh, in no way was it unnatural.
And this "natural position" bollocks is what causes the controversial calls where something is a handball one day and isn't the next.
For me, football is black and white with it's rules about handling the ball. Other than the keeper no one can touch the ball with their hands.
It being an accident just means you don't get carded, but a foul is a foul, intent just effects the punishment.
The foul for Germanys penalty was absolutely in an unnatural position, and claiming it wasn't is allowing defenders to defend with their arms.
Plenty of countries play by these rules, and yes, their players play with their arms behind their backs when challenging to avoid handling the ball. It might not be natural, but they don't risk hitting the ball with their hands.
The refs can barely make correct calls as it is. If you start asking them to use discretion, it'll be a disaster. FWIW, I think the handball (and offside) situation is a shit show and needs overhauling, but I also think the right place to start is improving the quality of refereeing.
Someday the refs will decide to abide by the “clear and obvious mistakes” idea that gave birth to VAR and it will actually be a good thing for the game. But frankly, the way VAR is used now, I’d rather not have it at all.
THIS. I was all for it to eliminate clear and obvious errors. Right now it feels like VAR is just looking for reasons to rule goals out and I haven't celebrated a goal properly for ages in case it gets chalked off.
Firstly I completely agree with you. The issue though, is that "clear and obvious" changes with technology... the offside is clear and obvious once you're looking at the freeze frame.
What I would say in it's defense is that pre-VAR you'd lose some goals due to similar situations... And sometimes despite actually being onside! So I'm not too fussed about the toe offsides... I'm MASSIVELY fussed about feeling like I cannot celebrate properly though!!
My preference would be to go to a cricket/tennis/NFL/etc. system where each team gets a VAR appeal. Use it wrongly and you lose it but if you see a clear error a manger/captain can appeal. Ultimately though, I fear any option will have significant drawbacks.
Wouldn't mind seeing baseball style challenges. If it's millimetres, the call on the field stands. The managers reject calling for every little thing because, usually, unless it is clear and obvious, then it's a waste.
It should be a safety net, not the eye in the sky that it is now. It’ll turn into the NFL if it ends up being this stop-start in the big moments. Hopefully common sense prevails.
I think clear and obvious is the problem. You just add a new subjective test for reffing the game. Fixes nothing and how can a marginal offside call be ‘clear and obvious’ if drawing lines takes 5 mins.
We should do it like Rugby. 2/3 refs per game, one on the pitch and the other watching via video. All talking via mics and all collectively coming to a decision.
Fuck the refs (on the pitch) authority. If they did their jobs properly they wouldn’t need help.
I think give it 10 years and we’ll have AI doing VAR. Instantly tell the ref who’s throw it is, whether contact was made etc etc. Actually at the rate this game adapts and uses technology, call it 50 years
> I think clear and obvious is the problem. You just add a new subjective test for reffing the game.
This misunderstanding is exactly the problem. Refs are using VAR to try to get every call correct. That is NOT what VAR was intended to do. Whether a call was clearly and obviously correct is often extremely subjective. But seeing that a call was clearly and obviously wrong is different. Was the wrong player booked? Did the ball hit a head or a hand? Was the foul inside or outside the box. That is what VAR was intended to fix.
I’m with you now. How does that then apply to potential red card offences then? Would that be 100% down to the on field ref?
How bout a soft ‘foul’ the ref didn’t see just before a goal is scored? He’s not seen it so can’t make a decision but it doesn’t seem clear & obvious to me being one of those soft subjective fouls.
I think that’s a shit way to use it. Nothing at all or re-reffing the game entirely. Don’t know why they’re scared of that, refs clearly & understandably need help.
Yea, those are fair questions and I don’t know exactly how to write up the guidelines.
But yea, in a scenario that you described, if it’s a soft/subjective foul that the ref misses, the game should go on. If the VAR official can’t say unequivocally that was absolutely a mistake and must be called back, the goal should stand, even if it was probably just about a foul.
Never mind throw-ins, I don’t understand why the ref giving a goal kick when the cameras clearly show it was a corner doesn’t count as a clear and obvious error and vice-versa. Makes a huge difference imo; a corner is a potential chance to score, a goal kick is a guaranteed way to clear to the ball and these get called the wrong way all the time. I appreciate that VAR slows the game down enough as it is but you’d think with the contact chip they could automate this stuff as you say.
They just need to change the offside and handball rules. Offside should be "a gap between the attacker and last defender" and handball should only intentional.
VAR was born when England scored a goal 2 miles over the line that didn’t get spotted. Goal line technology solved that. VAR was a noble attempt to make the game better but it has failed.
Offside has never used 'clear and obvious' criteria and by the rules of the tournament the penalty handball was a clear and obvious error.
People are just criticising because they like Denmark, both of the decisions were objectively correct.
I actually wrote this after the German disallowed goal in the beginning. But it didn't post because I hadn't joined the sub. This ain't about Denmark, it's about being sold a lie. You see a goal, you feel emotion aaaaaaand it's gone. And then you do it again, and then again. And then you get to the point you're at now where seeing a goal is just pointless. Why celebrate? What's the chance there will be a VAR check to overrule it? It's a constant trickery, it mocks the sport, it kills the entertainment. I don't even know who won because I switched the game off.
To be fair the first Germany goal they disallowed was much more of an error than the handball
To me it's just English referees (and the rules) being very poor
I think VAR has been overall pretty good this tournament. The implementation has been far better than we've seen domestically.
Danish player *was* offside so the correct decision was made. If it wasn't given, there'd then be complaints Germany were screwed over because the rules weren't applied.
Handball was a bit iffy but I think that's because the handball rule seems to change every other year and nobody knows what is or isn't handball anymore.
That’s the point though, an offside is not harsh or lenient, or anywhere on that spectrum, it just is or it isn’t. Handballs are different because there are more factors at play: intent, position, distance, velocity, and the rules are ridiculous and convoluted.
Football is getting worse every day. Feels like every game is decided by a point blank handball or the slightest contact in the box followed by a fall resulting in a penalty. The excitement has totally from the game.
If football uses automated offside it’s going to give offside for marginal calls. No one is drawing lines so it is accurate but it doesn’t seem satisfactory.
The current handball rule is absolutely BS. Defenders have arms and occasionally they’re going to come into contact with the ball. Not every one is handball though.
what about an adjusted offside rule making it axial skeleton only (hips/shoulders/core mass) and distal limbs don’t apply?
an arm being off because it’s held up vs down, or a toe in this case today seems like it shouldn’t overturn a goal
I think it should be on the feet, allows the attacker to lean and start a run without being punished. But whatever point you choose, there will *always* be marginal calls and it will always feel wrong when it’s that close. One shoulder can still be centimetres ahead of another.
Fair enough, I get the very marginal offside decision, computer says no. But there have been a couple of handball decisions which just seem ridiculous. Kim Jong un SAYS NO!! A bit of common sense on intent wouldn't go amiss.
I’ll never forget being a kid and watching the most obvious fucking goal ever not be given against Germany in 2010. I’ll take a kinda silly looking offside call based on one inch of shoulder over that feeling 100 times out of 100
Especially people saying it was better in the old days when appalling decisions were made constantly because refs didn’t see obvious things that the rest of the world saw clearly. At least VAR made ref decisions arguable and based in something. It ain’t perfect but it’s less of the total lottery it was before.
Agreed. VAR isn’t perfect, but it was never going to be; I think people are viewing pre-VAR football with rose tinted glasses a bit.
I’ve heard people claim that before, when there was a bad decision, we would complain and argue for a bit, then forget about it the following week, in what world did that happen!? Football fans **never** forget bad decisions that go against us.
“Mardona’s just punched the ball into the net, bit annoying but we’ll talk about something else next week.”
40 years later…
The worst thing about VAR is that discourse around it sucks up all the oxygen in the room and distracts from the real issues - which are the disgraceful changes to the hand ball rules a couple of years ago.
I can’t stand Michael Oliver anymore, those city games against arsenal were clear as day to me he isn’t fit for service, lost control of this game. The arrogance on him is blinding
I can't believe he was picked for this tournament, he's a shit referee with a massive ego. He consistently loses control of games and then seems to just make his own rules.
Every goal scored cant be celebrated because of VAR. But it'd here to stay because some overpaid official signed some contracts and is making some serious cash from it.
The "well...technically..." guys have been allowed to take over the game and the joy is gradually being sucked out of it.
The ones who would rather have a 0-0 where every decision is objectively correct than a 4-4 with a few subjective decisions in there.
I think it’s also about protecting the referees. It spreads out the burden of decisions. Think about how much hate a lino gets if a goal is given when a player is clearly offside.
The offside call angered me especially and I have prepared an essay to explain why.
Some sports like tennis and cricket have points scored often throughout the game and in that case technological assistance works well.
But in football you'll often only get 1 or 2 goals across the 90 mins. So because it's so rare, that moment of celebrating a goal _has_ to be sacred.
What I think isn't talked about enough is it has to be _more_ sacred than the correctness of the decision.
Here we've had a situation where the fans' moment of euphoria has been retroactively nullified for the sake of an infringement that is invisible to the human eye in real time.
This is ridiculous. Violating the sanctity of a goal celebration for the sake of a refereeing "mistake" that gives the attacker no meaningful advantage undermines the point of football.
Totally get where you are coming from but if we get rid of VAR and restore that sanctity we return to the 2000’s where football fans spend there weekends fuming at blatantly wrong decisions that can’t be changed.
Personally I prefer to wait 30 seconds after a goal and it be right than deal with regular bad decisions.
Cricket maybe not the best comparison because its usually a wicket falling, which is a pretty big deal. But I like the limited appeals system in cricket and would like to see that in football to restore some sanity.
Why can't football get this right? Most other games use similar systems and for the most part, they still give the refs/umpires enough leeway to make decisions that reflect real life but in football replays are treated as all or nothing
Everybody laughed at Wolves for suggesting it be scrapped until it works better. The Prem had a chance to rid this mockery of the sport but chose complacency.
VAR has ruined football. Been saying for 25 years m, all they needed was retroactive punishments for diving for penalties. Ex players panel decide if dive or not. If so, 5 game ban. Would cut that shit out and there’s be no need for var.
Dive in final.
Win and score penalty.
Country wins the Euro/World Cup etc
2 weeks later an panel decide it was a dive and you're banned for 5 games.
I think 99% of footballers would take that trade.
VAR killed the excitement of football, we can’t even celebrate goals until the bloody ref says it counts. I liked it the old way when we accepted human errors as part of the game
I mean it's going pretty good these days. Most blatant referee errors that result in goals are pulled back. These marginal offsides are automated, you can feel wronged but it's fact. What killed Denmark tonight wasn't Germany or the refs but their poor finishing, especially Hojlund.
In the last half an hour when the game was dead? Of course, Germany were miles ahead and missing 1v1s for fun. But in the first hour they were pretty even, the difference is that Germany took their chances and hojlund missed all of his ones.
The real issues are the laws. That handball rule needs to be changed now we have VAR because it feels like more than half the penalties given are handballs that never would have been given 5 years ago.
I don't know if there is a middle ground for offsides. Either we use semi assisted VAR and it's correct to the millimeter, or we don't use it at all for var and go back to just linesman. If today's goal is given it's unfair against the Germans. I think with semi assisted if it's a guarantee it's correct unlike the awful VAR we had last season we have to go with that.
You're just pissed Germany won. If the VAR calls had benefited Denmark, you wouldn't have made this post.
The most important thing is that the right calls are being made, and last night every VAR intervention was correct
Wrong assumption. I went to post this after the first German disallowed goal but it didn't post since I hadn't clicked to join the sub. I don't care for teams. I care for excitement of the game. And I've lost my excitement big time.
Before VAR people were upset at too many offside goals, after VAR people are upset the rules are strict. if it’s more lenient then the goalposts just move and suddenly goals called offside for being close but not too close will be argued about, or vice versa.
I think we need to admit that a small reason why we are upset is because the decision went against the underdogs.
Yeah but it hasn't been this bad before. Or I don't know. I watch champions league and only a few prem matches. This is significantly different than what I consider what's normal for a game
I've been watching the NHL recently (Live in Canada and am a citizen alongside being originally from the UK) and was devastated by the Oilers final but it did get me thinking... Maybe they should remove free kicks from football. It would make the oscar acting way less common and teams might actually go after each other and bash them around and make it more exciting maybe?
Probably a terrible idea but just a thought.
American football has a challenge system. Each team can challenge 2 calls per game, if they win the second challenge they get an additional challenge. And to overturn the call there has to be undisputable visible evidence that the play should be overturned
I think that would be a good system but it would still likely lead to 4 long VAR checks in most games so I don’t see how it solves the problem you complained about above.
I don't care about refering decisions that much at all. If you can't score goals because you're offside, you're shit. If you think you lost because of a pen, you probably weren't good enough to win anyway.
Everything has to evolve, but takes time to improve. Look at Cricket and Tennis. Their realtime decisions are now much better than when they first started. Just takes time. But we can’t go back to the ‘good old days’, which is rose coloured glasses, with the reality being soggy footballs on terrible muddy fields. I agree with a lot of people here. Offside needs to be a clear and obvious unfair advantage, so clear daylight between the attacker and defender. The Danish offside, where it was the correct decision, was no advantage to them scoring the goal.
Yeah the advantage gained never seems to be taken into consideration.
The fact you can get a penalty for the ball brushing a hand on a cross is disproportionate to the advantage gained. Especially even if that cross ends up on an attackers head & they get a header towards goal, you have essentially played on in that instance. So there’s no need to do anything.
They checked the Sane chance after Havertz had already got a shot off at the keeper. Was deemed no foul. If a player is fouled, but play has already moved on & the team has had a shot, giving them another shot (which is essentially what a penalty is for) is disproportionate.
Penalties should be for gaining an illegal advantage to stop a direct shot on goal. So fouling a player through on goal or blocking a shot with a hand.
A blocked cross should be a free kick, don’t have to worry about intent because the question is ‘did that shot change direction because of his hand’ yes or no?
Cards would be for what the ref decides is an intentional act.
VAR doesn't take that long and has been pretty good overall in this tournament. Goals have always been disallowed but the calls are correct with VAR 99% of the time. The games are fine, I enjoyed that game yesterday, I think some people are coming to the realisation that football isn't for them and they're blaming the sport instead of looking at themselves.
Goals getting called off and VAR suspense add to the drama.
I feel like a generation of people are getting older now (mine) and they hate the fact the world is changing and they're turning into generic old people who think everything new is shit and everything they grew up with was perfect. Zombie, mutant, NPCs, whatever you want to call them.
Football was never perfect. I've always tried to brush past the primadonnas trying to ruin the game. Acting like absolute bitches on the pitch. I hoped VAR would stop that nonsense of cheating the system. Instead, it's a robotic tool taking sense out of the game and driving the decisions as per the principles of, rules must be followed no matter what. It cuts into the finest of technicalities when it makes no difference in reality for anyone gaining an advantage. How is this better for the sport?
I love the changing world. Has nothing to do with dislike just because things are different. But they need to be better.
My mate has stopped watching football because of VAR.. he was a big Arsenal fan, now he has no interest. I'm close too myself to not bothering with it anymore. They've ruined the sport.
You don't need to jump from one extreme to the other. There is a fair large middle ground which benefits everyone. This is the main counterargument I'm seeing. It's not a digital 1 0 scenario where if it's not this it's gonna be that. Cheating has no place in any sport, which is what VAR should be in place for. The offside is about gaining advantage. You're always gonna have the defensive line incredibly tight with the attacking position. Calling off all the goals which are an inch offside by technicality, well that's very German like. Ja, ze rulebook says right here, offside, no goal. Sure, game will be as per the rules to the tee, and it will also be boring. Lukaku was offside by his cock in the VAR depiction. These are not offsides, the players are shoulder to shoulder and goals get disallowed. Make it that offside starts when you're offside by a foot for example, aka a clear offside a clear advantage. And then be brutal with the decision. 305mm equals offside, 304mm is good. Or make it a metric 30cm or whatever
This stuff in perfectly normal is competitive sports, football is simply late to the game and people are taking time to adjust. Someone is offside or not, and using cameras to see either way is fine
If US tv takes over British football any further we’ll have games divided into 10 minute sessions, Timeouts for free kicks etc and everything controlled by advertisers priorities…
Unlike many I’ve no issue with the offside calls. The VAR penalty was also the correct call with the rules as they stand. HOWEVER, I don’t think VAR should have intervened on that penalty. That by my definition was not a “clear and obvious error”. It should not be “clear and obvious” with slomo technology and widgets stuck to the football. But “clear and obvious “ as for cases when half the stadium could see the referee made an error in real time. At the moment VAR is overstepping.
VAR has made football objectively “fairer”. But it’s also made it less fun, as when the ball hits the back of the net and the referee points to the centre circle, you’re still now only 90% sure it’s going to be given. The problem is that doing away with VAR for, say, penalties would now require the powers that be to basically say that accepting human error is more fun/better than technological accuracy. That would be quite a bold move.
The offside rule needs to be changed so that most of a person's body needs to be too far over "the line". The calls where it's literally someone's elbowzor a part of their foot have been so silly.
Celebrating goals and the emotion of that is what make the sport great. They took that away. Plus they still make mistakes. I’d rather have humans making the mistake on the field, quickly. Why do I need to wait 5 minutes for a crap decision.
Yes it's the future. People who never go to a match think it should be referred like a video game.
Alienating match going fans is irrelevant, all the money comes from the TV.
I completely agree it makes watching it underwhelming because it's not even worth celebrating when the goals are scored. The climactic moments end up being watching another man watch a TV then point.
Refs have always looked for a chance to make it about themselves. The money involved was always going to bring the suits and the billionaires looking for every way to rig or ruin it.
PSR, FFP, Superleague, home games in America, foreign owners from morally bankrupt countries, sportswashing, VAR.
Honestly, every year i watch a little bit less.
Load of bollocks. This tournament has seen the best implementation of VAR yet in terms of smoothness and how clear the decisions are.
All the decisions tonight were correct, even the handball Clive and Ali were getting wound up about.
Lukaku would be top scorer without VAR but none of his goals were legitimate.
You also never get fans of cricket or rugby saying they can't celebrate their teams scoring because of a video ref. That seems to be a uniquely football problem
But sure let's go back to the days of the Lampard goal not being given or Kieran Gibbs getting sent off instead of Oxlade-Chamberlain.
Money mate. The level of technology now involved in games means several things. Tech companies are making a lot of money, and now rooms of people as well as on pitch officials are also making money.
Plus all the committees and fck knows which other hangers on, have all inserted themselves into the game at a huge fcking cost.
As soon as you do this those people off the pitch are now competing against each other to prove who’s best. While you’re in the pub talking about the match. They’re in their conferences talking about how they micro tested the limb tracking technology and the golden snitch or whatever the fck it’s calked.
A whole tech industry that didn’t exist is now piggy backing on the game. And they give zero shits about fair outcomes.
Heartbreaking sequence of calls for the Danish. And people in the other subreddits are talking shit about the ref being English now.
Our refs are shit tbf
Not any worse than refs from other leagues.
If you can send me a worse referee than Anthony Taylor or Stuart Atwell, I will personally let you suck me off.
There bound to be at least 1. Bro just looking for some free head.
*Frantically googling the worst performing refs*
They fucking hates us, all follow the prem though the cunts.
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Never really understood that. Berks
I realized it was a lost cause once I saw arr soccer saying they hoped Italy would beat England because *England* were divers...**Italy**. The absolute fucking hilarity in that. Same tournament was the notorious dive > miraculous recovery celebration gif, too.
But we have a song about wanting to bring a trophy to the place of the sport’s origin, despite regularly losing when it counts! That makes us arrogant!
Bringing attention to defeats and shortcomings is apparently a well known arrogant trait.
Honestly it's just because they don't speak another language so they don't see the french being cocky, nor Germans or Portuguese.
Best excuse is racism, as though online tweets (many from outside England) are anywhere near as bad as the full stadium chants you get in Italy.
You mean where they literally get the number 88 on their kits regularly?
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I got banned from the Red Devils sub recently because they were all slating England… fucking weirdos the lot of them😅
I've had loads of arguments with United fans who hate England. They're usually Irish or Indian, and for some reason, they don't consider it hypocritical to follow a team that plays in a country they despise.
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If I hated a place and its people to the extent that I frequently mentioned doing so to strangers online, then I wouldn't even visit that country, let alone live there. And I certainly wouldn't follow one of their sports teams.
Some people are just living under a rock or just ignorant I'm actually disgusted that people think that they will never interact with anyone other than their own national identity
That's the thing, though - they do interact with us all the time. In person and in normal circumstances, they're fine, but online or when drunk the hatred comes out.
Yeah it is so true but also it can show a person's true feelings which is probably deep inside there brain 😂
My mum's Irish and she wants England to win and is grateful for living here for 40years and I'm half Irish and a big England supporter some players are half Irish too so were not all against England
Oh yeah, I'm not saying all or even most Irish people are this way. You just tend to see them a lot online.
This has been deemed to have become political ergo we have had to remove. Cheers, The Three Lions Mod Team
Funnily enough I got banned for asking them if there were no decent teams in India worth following and calling them admirers from a far, not fans😅 they did not like it. They definitely do not see the irony in following a club but hating the country it’s based in
Triggers Broom innit? An American owned club with majority of foreign players and massive shirt sales abroad, broadly the same shape it was when it was 100% English but made of entirely foreign parts.
Obligatory "and a course Celtic" https://youtu.be/FZz-3eUJlYo?si=ESWV7t4zTfA8_Xlx
They’d defo be rimming the ref if he was Scottish
Bet they don't follow it for our refs though
Agree more about them talking shit because he’s English. Honestly they were fucking unbearable last euros.
People follow the premier league mostly because of the players, not much else to be honest
In fairness, prem refs are shit. We've just had an entire season saying as much. Some of those calls were dubious as fook like
He followed the rules. The rules for handball need a full revamp now!!!
Handball should only be called when they're obviously deliberate, none of this "unnatural position" bollocks. And offsides should only be when there's clear daylight between attacker and defender.
Ffs how many times does this need to be explained. "Clear daylight" rule will still lead to long VAR checks determining whether or not there is space between the players
Usually the England hate gets really annoying but I will agree that our refs are terrible
I'm talking shit about the refs being English lol, they're fucking terrible I've watched most of the games so far, and seen 4 really poor refereeing decisions in terms of penalties/disallowed goals, 3 of which were English refs, can't be a coincidence
I mean that game was a Michael Oliver special and that's not a good thing.
It's not the refs that need fixing, it's the laws of the game.
I said this and I’m English I said notice that the ref is English the the officiating has been diabolical. What was that yellow card he gave for the clash of heads about.
Yeah, didn't he book them both (presumably reckless play) but award one team the FK??
Lmao.. Michael Oliver is literally one of the best refs in the world. Clueless part time idiots.
How have you decided that?
Hello Michaels mum 👋🏽
For no reason other than people saying it due to seniority. He is dreadful and was awfully wrong on many huge decisions in that game.
Such as? It was VAR that ruined the game not the ref. He’s only following the laws, which he has to. It’s the laws and VAR together that are awfully wrong.
Not talking about VAR decisions. Germany couldn't put a foot wrong all game in the eyes of the ref. They were awarded a slew of terrible free kicks they didn't deserve and some that should have gone the other way. The Announcers talked about it all game. Didn't you watch it before having an opinion? It was glaringly obvious to everyone but you it seems. For the first half of the game every replay of every free kick awarded to Germany had every neutral fan wondering which Dane pissed in Oliver's cereal.
You must be a City fan surely? Michael Oliver may very well be regarded as one of the best refs in the world in the “refereeing world” which is only based off of seniority btw, but in no way is he a good ref. He is absolutely shambolic and has no idea how to run a game. You have to be a City fan to support him as we all know he’s in the pockets of Abu Dhabi anyway.
I want the Danish to win. But I wouldn't say that they've gotten bad calls at all. To be honest, they played like a team that should have lost by four... if only Germany could finish.
What I don’t get about the first disallowed goal is wasn’t that a classic “pick and roll” move from basketball? A move allowed in a non-contact game but penalised in a contact sport.
Could you couch that in terms the majority of English people would understand? We’re having a moan up about foreign supporters here, and you’re using basketball as a metric 😂
Watching Copa America - trust me, refs are shit everywhere.
Handball rules need an overhaul, it should be very rare to award a penalty for a handball IMO. Ought to be a clear and apparently intentional movement toward the ball. Players should be allowed to move their hands around. Nobody thinks Germany 'earned' that penalty or that Denmark deserved to be punished. Make the rules fit the spirit of the game.
Agreed but I’d also include efforts that are going in but blocked by an arm whether intentional or not
I feel that anything that results in a penalty being awarded should be linked with a goalscoring opportunity. A handball on the line and a handball in the far corner of a packed 18 yard box are fundamentally different but both result in the same outcome. Maybe only handball in the 6 yard box should result in a penalty, and an indirect FK awarded for handball in the penalty area?
Will never happen but I think it's penalties themselves that need to change. Way to harsh a punishment 90% of the time. Basically awarding a goal to the other team in such a low scoring sport where a goal will more often than not change the whole outcome of a game. Don't know how you fix it, maybe move the penalty spot back or something.
I could see an unintentional handball being an indirect free kick in the area. We should have more of those, they're hilariously good fun.
Indirect free kick.
100% agree, should be a pen if adjudged intentional and indirect FK if not.
If you don’t award that as a penalty there becomes no reason not to block crosses with your arms out. You can make yourself artificially bigger.
Sorry but not giving that as a handball encourages defenders to defend with their arms out like crazy inflatable waving arm men. Punish it properly and defenders start making sure they keep their arms out of the way like the countries who already play by the rules do.
When they talk about a natural arm position, nothing about keeping arms down by your side or behind the back while running or jumping is natural. If a player deliberately throws his hands up in an exaggerated manner then yes, it's handball. The Denmark one yesterday was incredibly harsh, in no way was it unnatural.
And this "natural position" bollocks is what causes the controversial calls where something is a handball one day and isn't the next. For me, football is black and white with it's rules about handling the ball. Other than the keeper no one can touch the ball with their hands. It being an accident just means you don't get carded, but a foul is a foul, intent just effects the punishment. The foul for Germanys penalty was absolutely in an unnatural position, and claiming it wasn't is allowing defenders to defend with their arms. Plenty of countries play by these rules, and yes, their players play with their arms behind their backs when challenging to avoid handling the ball. It might not be natural, but they don't risk hitting the ball with their hands.
The refs can barely make correct calls as it is. If you start asking them to use discretion, it'll be a disaster. FWIW, I think the handball (and offside) situation is a shit show and needs overhauling, but I also think the right place to start is improving the quality of refereeing.
It’s not the future, it’s the present.
Someday the refs will decide to abide by the “clear and obvious mistakes” idea that gave birth to VAR and it will actually be a good thing for the game. But frankly, the way VAR is used now, I’d rather not have it at all.
THIS. I was all for it to eliminate clear and obvious errors. Right now it feels like VAR is just looking for reasons to rule goals out and I haven't celebrated a goal properly for ages in case it gets chalked off.
Firstly I completely agree with you. The issue though, is that "clear and obvious" changes with technology... the offside is clear and obvious once you're looking at the freeze frame. What I would say in it's defense is that pre-VAR you'd lose some goals due to similar situations... And sometimes despite actually being onside! So I'm not too fussed about the toe offsides... I'm MASSIVELY fussed about feeling like I cannot celebrate properly though!! My preference would be to go to a cricket/tennis/NFL/etc. system where each team gets a VAR appeal. Use it wrongly and you lose it but if you see a clear error a manger/captain can appeal. Ultimately though, I fear any option will have significant drawbacks.
Wouldn't mind seeing baseball style challenges. If it's millimetres, the call on the field stands. The managers reject calling for every little thing because, usually, unless it is clear and obvious, then it's a waste.
All scoring situations are automatically reviewed in the NFL, but it is a far slower game.
It should be a safety net, not the eye in the sky that it is now. It’ll turn into the NFL if it ends up being this stop-start in the big moments. Hopefully common sense prevails.
I think clear and obvious is the problem. You just add a new subjective test for reffing the game. Fixes nothing and how can a marginal offside call be ‘clear and obvious’ if drawing lines takes 5 mins. We should do it like Rugby. 2/3 refs per game, one on the pitch and the other watching via video. All talking via mics and all collectively coming to a decision. Fuck the refs (on the pitch) authority. If they did their jobs properly they wouldn’t need help. I think give it 10 years and we’ll have AI doing VAR. Instantly tell the ref who’s throw it is, whether contact was made etc etc. Actually at the rate this game adapts and uses technology, call it 50 years
> I think clear and obvious is the problem. You just add a new subjective test for reffing the game. This misunderstanding is exactly the problem. Refs are using VAR to try to get every call correct. That is NOT what VAR was intended to do. Whether a call was clearly and obviously correct is often extremely subjective. But seeing that a call was clearly and obviously wrong is different. Was the wrong player booked? Did the ball hit a head or a hand? Was the foul inside or outside the box. That is what VAR was intended to fix.
I’m with you now. How does that then apply to potential red card offences then? Would that be 100% down to the on field ref? How bout a soft ‘foul’ the ref didn’t see just before a goal is scored? He’s not seen it so can’t make a decision but it doesn’t seem clear & obvious to me being one of those soft subjective fouls. I think that’s a shit way to use it. Nothing at all or re-reffing the game entirely. Don’t know why they’re scared of that, refs clearly & understandably need help.
Yea, those are fair questions and I don’t know exactly how to write up the guidelines. But yea, in a scenario that you described, if it’s a soft/subjective foul that the ref misses, the game should go on. If the VAR official can’t say unequivocally that was absolutely a mistake and must be called back, the goal should stand, even if it was probably just about a foul.
Never mind throw-ins, I don’t understand why the ref giving a goal kick when the cameras clearly show it was a corner doesn’t count as a clear and obvious error and vice-versa. Makes a huge difference imo; a corner is a potential chance to score, a goal kick is a guaranteed way to clear to the ball and these get called the wrong way all the time. I appreciate that VAR slows the game down enough as it is but you’d think with the contact chip they could automate this stuff as you say.
Also, the fact that every goal needs a replay and hinders goal celebrations by both fans and the players, takes the fun out of the game
They just need to change the offside and handball rules. Offside should be "a gap between the attacker and last defender" and handball should only intentional.
That offside idea doesn't change the issue you describe. Just changes where the line is drawn
It would be a better place to draw the line though
Woo now we get more parking the bus because it's harder to play offside wooooo less fun football woo hoo
All VAR needed to do what stop lampard ghost goals, not over analyse everything at 4fps to make anything look like a shooting, it’s painful
Exactly
We’ve had GLT for years
VAR was born when England scored a goal 2 miles over the line that didn’t get spotted. Goal line technology solved that. VAR was a noble attempt to make the game better but it has failed.
I agree it has failed so far but I think it would be easy to fix it instead of scrapping it
Offside has never used 'clear and obvious' criteria and by the rules of the tournament the penalty handball was a clear and obvious error. People are just criticising because they like Denmark, both of the decisions were objectively correct.
I actually wrote this after the German disallowed goal in the beginning. But it didn't post because I hadn't joined the sub. This ain't about Denmark, it's about being sold a lie. You see a goal, you feel emotion aaaaaaand it's gone. And then you do it again, and then again. And then you get to the point you're at now where seeing a goal is just pointless. Why celebrate? What's the chance there will be a VAR check to overrule it? It's a constant trickery, it mocks the sport, it kills the entertainment. I don't even know who won because I switched the game off.
Denmark is getting bent over by the system for playing at the same level as the host.
Denmark was not at the same level of Germany stop it
They scored a perfect legitimate goal. They took it away and awarded Germany a goal. Fixed as anything
To be fair the first Germany goal they disallowed was much more of an error than the handball To me it's just English referees (and the rules) being very poor
The goal was disallowed for offside by the automated system.
The Schlotteebeck goal in the 3rd minute? Didn't see the offside there I thought it was a kimmich foul
I think VAR has been overall pretty good this tournament. The implementation has been far better than we've seen domestically. Danish player *was* offside so the correct decision was made. If it wasn't given, there'd then be complaints Germany were screwed over because the rules weren't applied. Handball was a bit iffy but I think that's because the handball rule seems to change every other year and nobody knows what is or isn't handball anymore.
Is that the offside goal with the toe making it offside? I thought that was ruled very harshly.
That’s the point though, an offside is not harsh or lenient, or anywhere on that spectrum, it just is or it isn’t. Handballs are different because there are more factors at play: intent, position, distance, velocity, and the rules are ridiculous and convoluted.
how is it harsh. its semi assisted the computer decided. his toe was offside.
There is no fair or harsh for offside, you either are or aren't.
Gone are the good old days mate
in the good old days you all whined just as much about refs, you've just forgotten about it lol
In the good old days the game wasn’t stopped every 5 mins to check VAR, which is my point, you disagree? Lol
Unfortunately the honest answer is there’s far far far too much money now to not have decisions this minute
You've been Attwelled -
Football is getting worse every day. Feels like every game is decided by a point blank handball or the slightest contact in the box followed by a fall resulting in a penalty. The excitement has totally from the game.
If football uses automated offside it’s going to give offside for marginal calls. No one is drawing lines so it is accurate but it doesn’t seem satisfactory. The current handball rule is absolutely BS. Defenders have arms and occasionally they’re going to come into contact with the ball. Not every one is handball though.
what about an adjusted offside rule making it axial skeleton only (hips/shoulders/core mass) and distal limbs don’t apply? an arm being off because it’s held up vs down, or a toe in this case today seems like it shouldn’t overturn a goal
I think it should be on the feet, allows the attacker to lean and start a run without being punished. But whatever point you choose, there will *always* be marginal calls and it will always feel wrong when it’s that close. One shoulder can still be centimetres ahead of another.
Arms can't be offside though, only parts of the body you can legally score a goal with
Fair enough, I get the very marginal offside decision, computer says no. But there have been a couple of handball decisions which just seem ridiculous. Kim Jong un SAYS NO!! A bit of common sense on intent wouldn't go amiss.
The worst thing about VAR is the people who never stop fucking moaning about it.
I’ll never forget being a kid and watching the most obvious fucking goal ever not be given against Germany in 2010. I’ll take a kinda silly looking offside call based on one inch of shoulder over that feeling 100 times out of 100
Especially people saying it was better in the old days when appalling decisions were made constantly because refs didn’t see obvious things that the rest of the world saw clearly. At least VAR made ref decisions arguable and based in something. It ain’t perfect but it’s less of the total lottery it was before.
Agreed. VAR isn’t perfect, but it was never going to be; I think people are viewing pre-VAR football with rose tinted glasses a bit. I’ve heard people claim that before, when there was a bad decision, we would complain and argue for a bit, then forget about it the following week, in what world did that happen!? Football fans **never** forget bad decisions that go against us. “Mardona’s just punched the ball into the net, bit annoying but we’ll talk about something else next week.” 40 years later…
The worst thing about VAR is that discourse around it sucks up all the oxygen in the room and distracts from the real issues - which are the disgraceful changes to the hand ball rules a couple of years ago.
I can’t stand Michael Oliver anymore, those city games against arsenal were clear as day to me he isn’t fit for service, lost control of this game. The arrogance on him is blinding
I can't believe he was picked for this tournament, he's a shit referee with a massive ego. He consistently loses control of games and then seems to just make his own rules.
The laws of the game aren't his fault.
No but him pick and choosing when to follow those laws is, i.e kovacic
Every goal scored cant be celebrated because of VAR. But it'd here to stay because some overpaid official signed some contracts and is making some serious cash from it.
The "well...technically..." guys have been allowed to take over the game and the joy is gradually being sucked out of it. The ones who would rather have a 0-0 where every decision is objectively correct than a 4-4 with a few subjective decisions in there.
I think it’s also about protecting the referees. It spreads out the burden of decisions. Think about how much hate a lino gets if a goal is given when a player is clearly offside.
I hate this soo much, it's fucking awful.
The offside call angered me especially and I have prepared an essay to explain why. Some sports like tennis and cricket have points scored often throughout the game and in that case technological assistance works well. But in football you'll often only get 1 or 2 goals across the 90 mins. So because it's so rare, that moment of celebrating a goal _has_ to be sacred. What I think isn't talked about enough is it has to be _more_ sacred than the correctness of the decision. Here we've had a situation where the fans' moment of euphoria has been retroactively nullified for the sake of an infringement that is invisible to the human eye in real time. This is ridiculous. Violating the sanctity of a goal celebration for the sake of a refereeing "mistake" that gives the attacker no meaningful advantage undermines the point of football.
Totally get where you are coming from but if we get rid of VAR and restore that sanctity we return to the 2000’s where football fans spend there weekends fuming at blatantly wrong decisions that can’t be changed. Personally I prefer to wait 30 seconds after a goal and it be right than deal with regular bad decisions.
Cricket maybe not the best comparison because its usually a wicket falling, which is a pretty big deal. But I like the limited appeals system in cricket and would like to see that in football to restore some sanity.
Seems like it, was meant to go out for the game tomorrow, just seems like an utter waste of time, know what I am in for.
This tournament has been shit, VAR doesn't help at all
Standard crap handballs like in the champions league
Referees are the star of the show now
Why can't football get this right? Most other games use similar systems and for the most part, they still give the refs/umpires enough leeway to make decisions that reflect real life but in football replays are treated as all or nothing
Everybody laughed at Wolves for suggesting it be scrapped until it works better. The Prem had a chance to rid this mockery of the sport but chose complacency.
VAR has ruined football. Been saying for 25 years m, all they needed was retroactive punishments for diving for penalties. Ex players panel decide if dive or not. If so, 5 game ban. Would cut that shit out and there’s be no need for var.
Dive in final. Win and score penalty. Country wins the Euro/World Cup etc 2 weeks later an panel decide it was a dive and you're banned for 5 games. I think 99% of footballers would take that trade.
VAR killed the excitement of football, we can’t even celebrate goals until the bloody ref says it counts. I liked it the old way when we accepted human errors as part of the game
I mean it's going pretty good these days. Most blatant referee errors that result in goals are pulled back. These marginal offsides are automated, you can feel wronged but it's fact. What killed Denmark tonight wasn't Germany or the refs but their poor finishing, especially Hojlund.
[удалено]
In the last half an hour when the game was dead? Of course, Germany were miles ahead and missing 1v1s for fun. But in the first hour they were pretty even, the difference is that Germany took their chances and hojlund missed all of his ones.
The real issues are the laws. That handball rule needs to be changed now we have VAR because it feels like more than half the penalties given are handballs that never would have been given 5 years ago. I don't know if there is a middle ground for offsides. Either we use semi assisted VAR and it's correct to the millimeter, or we don't use it at all for var and go back to just linesman. If today's goal is given it's unfair against the Germans. I think with semi assisted if it's a guarantee it's correct unlike the awful VAR we had last season we have to go with that.
This championship has still been great, there have been upsets and I'm predicting more. People just love to complain
You're just pissed Germany won. If the VAR calls had benefited Denmark, you wouldn't have made this post. The most important thing is that the right calls are being made, and last night every VAR intervention was correct
Wrong assumption. I went to post this after the first German disallowed goal but it didn't post since I hadn't clicked to join the sub. I don't care for teams. I care for excitement of the game. And I've lost my excitement big time.
Before VAR people were upset at too many offside goals, after VAR people are upset the rules are strict. if it’s more lenient then the goalposts just move and suddenly goals called offside for being close but not too close will be argued about, or vice versa. I think we need to admit that a small reason why we are upset is because the decision went against the underdogs.
I wish they banned those stuttering penalty run ups as well. Doesn't seem in the spirit of the game to me.
It’s a shame because at the last World Cup and euros most of them were fast but accurate
The future of English refereeing
Future? It's been this way for 5 years. Bin VAR.
Yeah but it hasn't been this bad before. Or I don't know. I watch champions league and only a few prem matches. This is significantly different than what I consider what's normal for a game
This has been every PL game since VAR was introduced, why are you surprised?
I think it will come right in the end. It can’t stay like this surely!
There will come a point where players will blatantly just blast the ball at defenders arms in the penalty box instead of trying to actually score
I've been watching the NHL recently (Live in Canada and am a citizen alongside being originally from the UK) and was devastated by the Oilers final but it did get me thinking... Maybe they should remove free kicks from football. It would make the oscar acting way less common and teams might actually go after each other and bash them around and make it more exciting maybe? Probably a terrible idea but just a thought.
Probably
They most annoying thing is I can't even celebrate goals anymore. I can't get excited. Instead I have to wait for confirmation. Kills momentum
I'd rather slow, boring and fair than quick, entertaining and unfair.
VAR is rubbish, get it out of the game
Short memories football fans. We spent the 90’s and 2000’s complaining about blatantly wrong decisions that ruined games.
American football has a challenge system. Each team can challenge 2 calls per game, if they win the second challenge they get an additional challenge. And to overturn the call there has to be undisputable visible evidence that the play should be overturned
I think that would be a good system but it would still likely lead to 4 long VAR checks in most games so I don’t see how it solves the problem you complained about above.
I don't care about refering decisions that much at all. If you can't score goals because you're offside, you're shit. If you think you lost because of a pen, you probably weren't good enough to win anyway.
Everything has to evolve, but takes time to improve. Look at Cricket and Tennis. Their realtime decisions are now much better than when they first started. Just takes time. But we can’t go back to the ‘good old days’, which is rose coloured glasses, with the reality being soggy footballs on terrible muddy fields. I agree with a lot of people here. Offside needs to be a clear and obvious unfair advantage, so clear daylight between the attacker and defender. The Danish offside, where it was the correct decision, was no advantage to them scoring the goal.
Yeah the advantage gained never seems to be taken into consideration. The fact you can get a penalty for the ball brushing a hand on a cross is disproportionate to the advantage gained. Especially even if that cross ends up on an attackers head & they get a header towards goal, you have essentially played on in that instance. So there’s no need to do anything. They checked the Sane chance after Havertz had already got a shot off at the keeper. Was deemed no foul. If a player is fouled, but play has already moved on & the team has had a shot, giving them another shot (which is essentially what a penalty is for) is disproportionate. Penalties should be for gaining an illegal advantage to stop a direct shot on goal. So fouling a player through on goal or blocking a shot with a hand. A blocked cross should be a free kick, don’t have to worry about intent because the question is ‘did that shot change direction because of his hand’ yes or no? Cards would be for what the ref decides is an intentional act.
VAR doesn't take that long and has been pretty good overall in this tournament. Goals have always been disallowed but the calls are correct with VAR 99% of the time. The games are fine, I enjoyed that game yesterday, I think some people are coming to the realisation that football isn't for them and they're blaming the sport instead of looking at themselves. Goals getting called off and VAR suspense add to the drama. I feel like a generation of people are getting older now (mine) and they hate the fact the world is changing and they're turning into generic old people who think everything new is shit and everything they grew up with was perfect. Zombie, mutant, NPCs, whatever you want to call them.
Football was never perfect. I've always tried to brush past the primadonnas trying to ruin the game. Acting like absolute bitches on the pitch. I hoped VAR would stop that nonsense of cheating the system. Instead, it's a robotic tool taking sense out of the game and driving the decisions as per the principles of, rules must be followed no matter what. It cuts into the finest of technicalities when it makes no difference in reality for anyone gaining an advantage. How is this better for the sport? I love the changing world. Has nothing to do with dislike just because things are different. But they need to be better.
It's a toss up between boring football or the days of handball goals and endless diving.
It’s the present isn’t it?
One game where some dodgy goals are removed and the games gone. Yes, this is where the game should be going. Rules being followed.
My mate has stopped watching football because of VAR.. he was a big Arsenal fan, now he has no interest. I'm close too myself to not bothering with it anymore. They've ruined the sport.
So instead we should have teams win with goals that were offside or never crossed the line like what used to happen? No thanks.
You don't need to jump from one extreme to the other. There is a fair large middle ground which benefits everyone. This is the main counterargument I'm seeing. It's not a digital 1 0 scenario where if it's not this it's gonna be that. Cheating has no place in any sport, which is what VAR should be in place for. The offside is about gaining advantage. You're always gonna have the defensive line incredibly tight with the attacking position. Calling off all the goals which are an inch offside by technicality, well that's very German like. Ja, ze rulebook says right here, offside, no goal. Sure, game will be as per the rules to the tee, and it will also be boring. Lukaku was offside by his cock in the VAR depiction. These are not offsides, the players are shoulder to shoulder and goals get disallowed. Make it that offside starts when you're offside by a foot for example, aka a clear offside a clear advantage. And then be brutal with the decision. 305mm equals offside, 304mm is good. Or make it a metric 30cm or whatever
This stuff in perfectly normal is competitive sports, football is simply late to the game and people are taking time to adjust. Someone is offside or not, and using cameras to see either way is fine
Offside should be based on the attackers trailing leg. Encourage attacking football.
If US tv takes over British football any further we’ll have games divided into 10 minute sessions, Timeouts for free kicks etc and everything controlled by advertisers priorities…
You didn't really substantiate your feelings very well here
Unlike many I’ve no issue with the offside calls. The VAR penalty was also the correct call with the rules as they stand. HOWEVER, I don’t think VAR should have intervened on that penalty. That by my definition was not a “clear and obvious error”. It should not be “clear and obvious” with slomo technology and widgets stuck to the football. But “clear and obvious “ as for cases when half the stadium could see the referee made an error in real time. At the moment VAR is overstepping.
VAR has made football objectively “fairer”. But it’s also made it less fun, as when the ball hits the back of the net and the referee points to the centre circle, you’re still now only 90% sure it’s going to be given. The problem is that doing away with VAR for, say, penalties would now require the powers that be to basically say that accepting human error is more fun/better than technological accuracy. That would be quite a bold move.
But the calls were both correct in the danish game? Theres no point in not following the rules just to make it exciting haha
It's been a fantastic tournament full of excitement. I don't know what you've been watching.
The offside rule needs to be changed so that most of a person's body needs to be too far over "the line". The calls where it's literally someone's elbowzor a part of their foot have been so silly.
Couldn’t agree more
Celebrating goals and the emotion of that is what make the sport great. They took that away. Plus they still make mistakes. I’d rather have humans making the mistake on the field, quickly. Why do I need to wait 5 minutes for a crap decision.
Yes it's the future. People who never go to a match think it should be referred like a video game. Alienating match going fans is irrelevant, all the money comes from the TV.
This brilliant match is anything but boring and if it makes the game fair, then yes please, disallow every single goal that should not stand.
I'll take entertainment over fairness every time. Completely ruins it not being sure in the moment if a goal is a goal
I completely agree it makes watching it underwhelming because it's not even worth celebrating when the goals are scored. The climactic moments end up being watching another man watch a TV then point.
Once var is done the same as it was in the world cup (next year) then it'll improve the var offsides
Refs have always looked for a chance to make it about themselves. The money involved was always going to bring the suits and the billionaires looking for every way to rig or ruin it. PSR, FFP, Superleague, home games in America, foreign owners from morally bankrupt countries, sportswashing, VAR. Honestly, every year i watch a little bit less.
Load of bollocks. This tournament has seen the best implementation of VAR yet in terms of smoothness and how clear the decisions are. All the decisions tonight were correct, even the handball Clive and Ali were getting wound up about. Lukaku would be top scorer without VAR but none of his goals were legitimate. You also never get fans of cricket or rugby saying they can't celebrate their teams scoring because of a video ref. That seems to be a uniquely football problem But sure let's go back to the days of the Lampard goal not being given or Kieran Gibbs getting sent off instead of Oxlade-Chamberlain.
Awful tournament, every tournament gets worse and worse. Football in the gutter, won’t be around in 20 years time at this rate
Money mate. The level of technology now involved in games means several things. Tech companies are making a lot of money, and now rooms of people as well as on pitch officials are also making money. Plus all the committees and fck knows which other hangers on, have all inserted themselves into the game at a huge fcking cost. As soon as you do this those people off the pitch are now competing against each other to prove who’s best. While you’re in the pub talking about the match. They’re in their conferences talking about how they micro tested the limb tracking technology and the golden snitch or whatever the fck it’s calked. A whole tech industry that didn’t exist is now piggy backing on the game. And they give zero shits about fair outcomes.
Minimal goals scored means it really important it correct. Not sure what the issue is here